sapa-msg - 7/3/10
Concentrated grape juice. Also called saba, sabba. Often used in Italian cooking.
NOTE: See also the files: grapes-msg, fd-Italy-msg, salads-msg, vinegar-msg, verjuice-msg, wine-msg, sauces-msg, spreads-msg, fruit-wines-msg, fresh-juices-msg.
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:37:55 EDT
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: Poppa's mustard- mighty morphin cookers(daa da da, da da) LONG
> Scully says that must is grape juice that has been boiled down until
> syrupy. He uses undiluted frozen grape juice concentrate for his
> redactions. This might be a good thing to use for cooks not using
> alcohol. It was either Pliny or Cato that tossed the sealed bottles of
> must into the fish pond to keep them from spoiling, which also argues
> that must was not fermented.
Platina says on Grapes (Milham translation pg141)
Ex uva concocta in aheno sapa sit, ex puro et expresso musto in defrutariis
vasis defrutum. Mustum enim decoctum defrutum vocatur, unde et defrutare
mustum coqure diciums; sapa tamen defruti vice nonnumquam utimur in
condiendis pomis ac piris
"Condensed grape is made from grapes boiled down in a pot, while condensed
must is made from pure must which has been condensed in special defrutum
jars. Cooked-down must is called defrutum, from which we call to cook down
must defrutare, however in seasoning apples and pears we sometimes use
condensed grape in place of condensed must"
The translation "condensed must is made from pure must" leads me to believe
there are two different musts, one that has already been condensed, the other
not. In the recipe for Red mustard(according to Milham)
"Sinampim, passulas, sandalos, buccellas panis tostas, cinnami parum, aut
seorsum aut simul contertito, cvel molito. Trita cum acresta aut aceto cumque
modico sapae dissolvito, in patinasque per setaceum transagito. Hoc minu
praedicto concalefacit, ac sitim movet, nec incommode nutrit."
They key phrase is;
"Trita cum acresta aut aceto cumque modico sapae dissolvito
"When it is ground, soak with verjuice or vinegar and a bit of must"
The original recipe does not contain the word defrutum but contains the word
"sapae" which when doing some morphological research (sounds more impressive
than saying I'm looking in a dictionary ;), the word sapa (in lewis and short
dictionary) defined as "must, new wine boiled thick". This does not convince
me though that the original did intend defrutum as Platina indicates it is
evaporation and not boiling that reduces the liquid to make defrutum.
All of the following words are similar in meaning to sapa, so we have alot to
work with.
1 siraeum
2 hepsema
3 mustulentus
4 musteus
5 sacrima
6 cortinale
7 carenum
8 mustus
9 protropum
10 dolium
11 vinalis
Anyone else want to give this a shot? Maybe some of our Latin language
people? I'm almost hopeless.
Hauviette
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:30:59 EDT
From: KallipygosRed at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Poppa's mustard
stefan at texas.net writes:
> But the only frozen/concentrated grape juice that I've seen is the
> New World Concord grape stuff. And I think using this type would
> have a significant taste impact.
Welches also makes a white grape juice and a berry white grape juice
concentrate. Would either of those be closer to the taste of old world grapes?
Lars
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:35:26 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2380
Looking at several ancient and medieval places where lat. "sapa" or it.
"saba/sabba" is used, it seems to me that it is a sweet product made of
must (or grape juice?) that is boiled down to up to 1 / 3 of its
original volume. The most important texts for the Platina question are
of course not the ancient texts, but 15th century Italian cookery texts
like Martino, the source for Platina, and the Neapolitan Recipe
collection. Let me mention a few aspects:
Anthimus, in #3, says: "mel aut sapa aut carenum" (honey or sapa or
carenum): it seems that there is a diminishing degree of sweetness here.
In the notes to a commentary to the text of Varro, Dieter Flach
mentions, that in Florence there is a saying "sweet as sapa" still
today.
Very important seems a passage in #101 of the Neapolitan Recipe
collection: "he falla agra cum agresto he dolce cum sabba" 'make it
sour/tart with agrest/verjuice and sweet with sapa/must that was boiled
down') -- I would not be surprised if the use of _sapa_ had something to
do with the tempering of sour and sweet (for dietetic reasons). --
However, in other recipes, the use of such ingredients is mentioned as
an alternative ("con un pocho d'agresto, o aceto, o vino cotto, cioË
sapa"; "Et fallo voi lo dolce o forte como ti piace", Faccioli p. 156).
In versions of Martino, there is some variation in the use of the
expressions "sapa" etc. and "vino cotto".
I think the best way to solve the sapa-problem in Platina is to look
for _sapa_/_saba_/_sabba_ and for _mosto cotto_/_vino cotto_ etc. in the
four Martino-versions now published (Benporat, Faccioli, Montorfano) and
in the Neapolitan recipe collection.
Best, Thomas
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:46:06 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Poppa's mustard
KallipygosRed at aol.com writes:
<< Welches also makes a white grape juice and a berry white grape juice
concentrate. Would either of those be closer to the taste of old world
grapes?
Lars >>
All of the Welsches products are based on New world varieties of grapes, The
distinguishing feature of these varieties is their 'foxy' flavor which is
best described as the flavor in Grape jam. This flavor is alien and absent
from Vinifera varieties so although the use of commercially available
supermarket grape juice might be your only recourse, the resulting 'grape'
flavor is totally alien to any taste an old world grape might provide.
Ras
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 01:18:14 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - must
Platina, in book II, at the beginning and at the end of chapter 4 (De
uva; on grapes) gives some information about must. Of particular value
is the contrast to _sapa_ at the end of this chapter.
Th.
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:49:55 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
On Jun 19, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Huette von Ahrens wrote:
<<< I have never heard of Saba. I have heard of Sabra. The cheapest place online called "WineChateau" has Sabra for $27.69 before shipping. I have never used the place, so I don't know how reliable it is. BevMo has Sabra, but for almost the same price that you quote.
Sorry.
Huette >>>
Sabra is a brand (I think Israeli); if you go to the WineChateau site you'll see chocolate and coffee liqueurs.
Saba is the same thing as Sapa, which is a modern (probably very old) descendant of Roman wine reductions and/or wine made from semi-dried, grape concentrate, like defrutum, etc.
Basically a thick. sweet, grape syrup...
Adamantius (who still has an old bottle of Sapa from Sahadi's in Brooklyn)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:30:41 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
I think he means sapa, which is condensed wine must used in Roman cookery.
The only Saba I know is an island in the Netherland Antilles.
Bear
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:52:59 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
Bear,
Yes I mean Sapa and Saba.
Spelled both ways.
Eduardo
On 6/19/10 6:30 PM, "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
<<< I think he means sapa, which is condensed wine must used in Roman cookery.
The only Saba I know is an island in the Netherland Antilles.
Bear >>>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 04:52:03 +0000
From: CHARLES POTTER <basiliusphocas at hotmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
<<< Does anyone have a source for relatively cheap Saba?
The cheapest I can seem to find it for is $36.50 for 500 ml.
Going into the summer season I need to replenish.
Eduardo >>>
Just boil down some good red grape juice by 2/3rds or until you get it as thick as you want it. You will have to lower the heat and stir more often as it starts to get thick or it will burn. May take a while , but is a lot cheaper this way.
Master B
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 06:48:18 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
What is the language of origin for saba? Sapa is Latin and refers to a more
highly condensed defrutum. From Google, I gather sapa may show up in ethnic
markets as pekmez or dibis. BTW, neither sapa nor saba shows up in my copy
of the OED.
Just to add to the fun, in Japanese, saba would be mackeral and there is a
West Indian plantain named saba.
Some other curious trivia that popped up in the search is the Saban, Hiriam
Beakes, pirate, who is attributed with the phrase, "Dead men tell no tales."
Arrrgh!
Bear
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:51:28 +0000
From: CHARLES POTTER <basiliusphocas at hotmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
Italian is the language of origin for saba. The Bancetti/Libro Novo by Christoforo Messisbugo spells it as sabba.
Master B
<<< What is the language of origin for saba? Sapa is Latin and refers to a more
highly condensed defrutum. From Google, I gather sapa may show up in ethnic
markets as pekmez or dibis. BTW, neither sapa nor saba shows up in my copy
of the OED.
Bear >>>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:48:18 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saba
The "p" has transmuted to a "b" in Italian.
I have no idea when or how.
In Riley's "The Oxford Companion to Italian Food" the entry is under Saba.
It reads -
SABA, SAPA (grape must). See MUSTO COTTO, MUST.
There is no entry under Sapa.
Florio also uses the word Saba.
It reads -
Saba, new wyne sodden, which we call cute, which they use to season meates
with.
He also has an entry for Sapa.
It reads -
Sapa, a kinde of sodden wine or cute, used also for a kinde of sauce.
(interestingly the next entry is "Sapadore, a sillibube made of wine and
milke." Anyone have an extant Italian recipe for this?)
Eduardo
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:28:51 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on Saba
I have achieved Saba!
So Master B suggested boiling down grape juice.
Great idea but I was not really interested in concord saba.
So I stopped at the wine store.
Purchased 10 Liters of Chianti juice concentrate.
Which when re-constituted makes 23 Liters juice.
I boiled down the concentrate (I hope to have around 6 to 7 liters), but it
is thick and syrupy.
And it tastes exactly like the $36.00/16 ounce bottle.
Thanks for the idea Master B.
Eduardo
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Raphaella DiContini <raphaellad at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on Saba
<<< I'm assuming that both this Chianti juice concentrate and
the resulting saba and the period saba, are all alcohol
free, since they haven't fermented, correct?
I'm also imagining that one of the reasons to concentrate
the juice was to keep it from fermenting. One of the few
ways they probably had to keep a fruit juice from
fermenting. >>>
It's my understanding that the culinary purpose of Saba is it's unique flavor, rather like the use of verjuice, although the flavor is different. I'm not sure how to describe it as I could say it's "like" a few different things, but it wouldn't capture it. If you've never had an Italian dish flavored with Saba, I'd _highly_ recommend the experience. One of the Scappi recipes for greens was so delicious that even all the kids in camp hoovered it! You know it's good when you've got 4-12 year olds asking for more green veggies!
I haven't had a chance to peek at Eduardo's posting, but if he didn't post the link for last year's July Coronation dinner where there was at least one dish with Saba, here it is: http://www.vastrepast.net/Davids_Site/Old_Food/Entries/2009/7/22_July_Coronation_Dinner.html
Raffaella
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:01:19 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on Saba
Yes it was a wine making store.
Yes it is juice not wine.
I haven't seen any other concentrates etc. Pomegranate in the middle eastern
corpus. Anyone else?
Eduardo
On 6/21/10 1:12 AM, "Stefan li Rous" <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
Eduardo said:
<<< I have achieved Saba!
So I stopped at the wine store.
Purchased 10 Liters of Chianti juice concentrate. >>>
Was this a store selling wine? Or a store selling wine-making supplies?
<<< I'm assuming that both this Chianti juice concentrate and the resulting saba
and the period saba, are all alcohol free, since they haven't fermented,
correct?
Stefan >>>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:20:00 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Saba Story Continues
10 liters of Chianti grape juice are now 25 cups of sticky, sweet delicious
saba canned and ready for some exciting recipes.
It was really quite easy.
Sticky, but easy!
Eduardo
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:23:36 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 02:45:18 -0500
Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< Would you consider sapa/saba/sabba to be a condiment? Or
an ingredient? I'm trying to decide where to put this
new file in the Florilegium. >>>
i am using it as a condiment with tiny meatballs stuffed
with capers. i make the sapa from concord juice and add
some merlot while reducing to get rid of the
supersweetness of concord. a touch of salt and pepper at
the last minute, and it is soooooooooooooooooooooooo good!
cailte
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:22:47 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba
To quote Flower and Rosenbaum, "If, for instance, we make a sauce or gravy
fromk wine we add the wine and let it boil fiercely until it is sufficiently
reduced. The Roman cooks had this done beforehand, and used wine of must
reduced to various degrees ready made. According to the degree of
reduction, it was called 'careonum,' 'defrutum' (or 'defritum') or 'sapa.'
The definitions given by various classical authors do not all agree with
each other. According to Varro and Columella, 'defrutum' is reduced by
boiling must to one-third of its volume; according to Pliny, it should be
one half of its volume. Palladius gives the following definitions (XI,
xviii):
Now about the preparation of 'defrutum,' 'caroenum,' and 'sapa.' Although
all three are made from the same substance, namely from must, the nethod of
their preparation modifies both their names and their properties. For
'defrutum' has its name from "boiling down," and it is ready when it it is
reduced to a thick consistency. 'Caroenum' is ready when it is reduced to
one-third of its volume with two-thirds remaning, 'sapa,' when it has been
reduced to one-third. The latter is improved when quinces are cooked with
it and fig wood is added to the fire."
"It is very clear that the laxative effect is greater when only the flesh of
the berries (grapes) has been swallowed with the juice, without the pips and
the skin, and is still more so when the juice itself is expressed and drunk
on its own. People call it 'must'..."
Powell, Owen, trans., Galen, On the Properties of Foodstuffs: On Grapes,
Cambridge, 2003.
"Siraion...boiled down new wine; but also sometimes translated as 'must',
which is new wine, or wine in the early stage of manufacture before
fermentation is complete.
Powell, Owen, trans., Galen, On the Properties of Foodstuffs:
Commentary, note for line 507, Cambridge, 2003.
<<< Hauviette seems to be saying that boiling the fresh wine gets you
defrutum, while letting it evaporate gets you sapa/saba/sabba, at least
according to Platina. I'm not sure that the result would be much different
between boiling the juice or letting it evaporate. >>>
All appear to be reduced by boiling, with the names varying by degree.
<<< "Must" is filtered grape juice, correct? Not smushed grapes, which would
also include the skin and flesh and other bits. >>>
I would say that must does mean filtered grape juice, with an open question
as to whether it is fermenting or not.
<<< Would you consider sapa/saba/sabba to be a condiment? Or an ingredient?
I'm trying to decide where to put this new file in the Florilegium.
Stefan >>>
Sapa is primarily an ingredient for sauces although ISTR one recipe where it
is used as a condiment. Apicius tends to use defrutum, which is definitely
lighter (and I suspect sweeter) rather than sapa.
Bear
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:55:20 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba
<<< OK, so then the next thing to get sorted out is what is meant by "must." I
was under the impression that modern wineries interpreted this to mean
what's left over after the juice is squeezed from the grape. But I'm now
seeing that it is, rather, juice that has not been fermented...in other
words, it's been squeezed from the fruit, with all seeds, skins, pulp
removed. Is that correct? If so, then should I be able to take some
grapes, squeeze them, strain them then boil down the resulting juice to 1/3
of its original volume and produce sapa?
Kiri >>>
Must is either the juice that has been pressed out of the fruit and is being
prepared for fermentation or is wine either in the early stages of
fermentation or not yet completely fermented (in both Latin and English, it
may have a different meaning in the argot of vintners).
Defrutum is also made from figs and quinces, which suggests to me that
defrutum may be made from the fresh juice. Sapa appears to be made only
from grapes, which suggests to me that it may be made from new wine, which
is why I think it may not be as sweet as defrutum (to answer Stefan's
question).
That being said, I have not seen a definitive answer as to the meaning of
must in the context of sapa, so the interpretation of boiling down grape
juice to 1/3 of the original volume is a perfectly valid way to produce your
own sapa.
Bear
<the end>