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salads-msg – 1/9/11

 

Period salads. lettuce, greens. Recipes.

 

NOTE: See also these files: herbs-msg, cook-flowers-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, vegetables-msg, vinegar-msg, cooking-oils-msg, lettuce-msg, greens-msg, olives-msg, celery-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)

Subject: Re: Truth and Beauty

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 14:07:23 GMT

 

ck290 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chandra L. Morgan-Henley) writes:

|> dip recipes is that the people who ate plain raw vegetables

|> were most likely to be peasants, who ate whatever they had

|> available to eat and didn't take time out for fancy sauces

|> when crunching on a turnip for lunch during a long day in the

 

Well, Dear Poster of Silly Notes, I'm going to disagree politely.

(Would you like some salt for that turnip, my dear?)

 

Background: I was born in Scotland, my grandmother was "in service" in

a hotel in her youth, and my grandfather was a "scaffie" - a collector

of garbage for the city of Dundee.  Great aunts, etc, were still

involved in farming.  In short, I come from a modern peasant background.

(I'll conceed the modernity.)

 

My grandparents believed that raw vegetables, specifically root veg

like carrots, and turnips were actively harmful. We ate lots of root

veg, frequently in soups or stews.  We did eat some salad in summer.

 

The extant medieval herbals and the like also held that raw vegetables

were harmful, "cold and wet" in the doctrine of humours.

 

So there's some evidence of a tradition in two points of at least some

people not eating raw turnip. The times in between are reasonably

documented too, and no where is the eating of much raw veg recorded.

 

Harry, a peasant by birth.

--

Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions

          A former member of a religious para military organization

 

 

From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: raw vegetables

Date: 12 Oct 1993 14:32:18 -0400

Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

 

jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes:

>Ther has been a discussin going on whether the average peasant ever

>ate raw food. Here's my contribution:

 

As the "raw food" thread was started by me, I think I should clarify

matters.

 

Certainly medieval people ate raw vegetables. I would recommend that

anyone doubting this read Platina's _On Honest Indulgence_ (Venice,

1475) or the Salad recipe in _The Form of Curye_ (England, late 14th

century). The latter shows up in almost all of the modern "medieval" cookbooks.

 

I merely voiced doubts about the presence of "crudites" (ie. those

carrot and celery sticks) at noble feasts. Here in the SCA, they

appear at almost every feast (they seem to be second only to honey

butter in popularity) whereas one almost never sees a salad (never

mind one based on a medieval recipe, even though one is readily available).

 

Of course, I could start a whole new thread on the ever-present honey

butter. Does anyone know what leads folk to believe that this is

medieval. A friend and I were speculating some time ago that if

medieval nobles had really wanted to sweeten their butter for a feast

(and honey butter most often appears in a feast context) they would

more likely have used the then more expensive sugar...

 

David/Thomas

tallan at flis.utoronto.ca

 

 

From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Veggies

Date: 7 Oct 1993 21:37:11 GMT

Organization: The Rialto

 

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

 

David Tallan writes,

>Yet. personally, I find a lack in cookbooks as a strong piece of

>evidence that medieval people *did not eat* carrot and celery sticks!

>For I cannot imagine that they could have eaten them for many

>generations with stumbling across the concept of "dip", much as they

>loved sauces. And a "dip" recipe they WOULD have written down and put

>with the sauces. The lack of such a trace is, to me, a pretty strong

>indication that, however they ate their vegetables, it probably wasn't

>as crudites.

 

(Assuming that we are talking about the upper classes:)

 

I'd agree except for one point.  We know, from lots of evidence, that

they ate many salads.  But the only surviving recipes I am aware

of that mention salad dressing call for vinegar and oil (and don't treat

them as constituting a separate "dressing", but just as shaken over the

salad).

 

Then again: fresh vegetables and fruits were only available in season.

While they aren't as "sexy" as something like beef, they are, in their

own way, more special.  I suspect that they ate them pretty plainly --

though clearly often boiled -- but also that they ate them raw and plainly

in salads, and possibly more simply, because they were enjoying them while

they could.

 

Cheers,

-- Angharad/Terry

 

 

From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: 4 Jan 1995 03:58:47 -0500

Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

 

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

 

Jerome of York asks,

>Our local group will shortly be having a small potluck, and I have been

>asked to bring a "salad-type" dish.  I'd like to keep things as "period"

>as is possible, but I don't have any recipes that fit the bill.  I recall

>having been told, long ago, that what we think of as "salads" are

>completely non-period...do any of you have a good recipe for this sort of

>vegetable based appetizer?  I would *greatly* appreciate any help!

 

Fortunately for your situation, you were told wrong.  Salads are

perfectly period, and were eaten far more widely than most people

dream of.  (The household accounts of one archbishop actually mention

that he insisted on salad with every meal, for instance.)

 

One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that

no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a

recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections

of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  I rather suspect

that it's actual purpose was to remind folks that there are more

interesting things to put in salads than simple leafy vegs.  Anyhow,

the text is as follows:

 

        Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek,

        borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew,

        rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.

        Pluk hem small wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with

        rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

 

Slightly modernized:

 

        Take parsley, sage, green garlic, chiboles, onions, leeks,

        borage, mint, poretts, fennel, and garden [town] cress,

        rue, rosemary, parsley; lave and wash them clean.  Pick

        [the nasty bits out of] them.  Pluck them small with your

        hand, and mix them will with oil; add vinegar and salt,

        and serve it forth.

 

Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I

wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage

are tough too, though at least possible).  And I wouldn't rule out

some lettuces, or spinach, or any readily available fresh herbs

(many supermarkets carry fresh basil these days, for example).

 

Things to avoid: tomatoes and bell peppers (New World).  I know

that there are appropriate cucumbers, but haven't seen them in

recipes. I've seen recipes that call for radish, but am not

convinced as to the variety.  Carrots appear to have been relatively

rare; I know of no English recipe that calls for them, and the

only French recipe I know of offhand includes immediately afterwards

a description of what they are, where to get them, and what they

cost -- indicating that the author (the Menagier) considered them

exotic enough that his young wife might not know what they are.

 

Hope this gives you some guidelines.  Enjoy!

 

-- Angharad/Terry

 

 

From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: 4 Jan 1995 04:11:55 -0500

Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

 

Greetings, again, from Angharad.  Looking over my recent response

to Jerome of York:

 

>One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that

>no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a

>recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections

>of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  

 

Probably more information than Jerome ever wanted, but to clear up

a possible false inference....

 

On second glance, this sounds as if that's the only period recipe

for salad.  Actually, not.  For instance, Platina has a recipe for

"a salad of several greens", in among many vegetable recipes.  (It

adds lettuce to the list explicitly, and catmint -- yes, catnip --

and chervil, all of which are available, if you're in the mood, as

well as some other rather less avaiable stuff, and that wonderful

standby, "other fragrant greens".)  Also calls for a very simple

vinegar and oil dressing.  (With all those herbs in the salad, who

needs more in the sauce?)  He also has a separate section on preparing

endive, and lots of other stuff.

 

There are probably other recipes out there too; these are just the

ones that jump to mind.

 

In other words, live wildly!

-- Angharad/Terry

 

 

From: jlv at coho.halcyon.com (Vifian(s))

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: 4 Jan 1995 16:17:00 GMT

Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.

 

Greetings from Jean Louis de Chambertin

 

greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) writes:

>Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

<SNIP>

 

>Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I

>wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage

>are tough too, though at least possible).

 

We have stopped using rue (although I think that we only had it available

in dried form) because of its reputation as an abortificant.  I suspect

that the amounts that we would have used would have had negligible

effects, as probably would a few leaves in a salad, but not knowing this

for sure we have opted for the safer course of just not using it.

 

Jean Louis de Chambertin

jlv at halcyon.com

 

 

From: hairy at sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 10:16:23 GMT

Organization: Lethargy Inc

 

Angharad writes:

 

>Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I

>wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage

>are tough too, though at least possible).

 

Borage tough to find? What sort of vicious climate have you _got_!?

That stuff is about the most combat-ready herb I ever saw. I guess I

haven't seen it in the supermarket, but once it's in the garden it's not

going away in a hurry...

 

While on the topic of herbs, anyone got suggestions for what to use

wormwood for? My plant seems to like its new home, so bits of it may as

well be pressed into service...

 

Edward Long-hair

Southron Gaard, Caid

 

 

From: tallison at mcs.com (Tim Allison)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: 4 Jan 1995 18:16:03 GMT

Organization: MCSnet

 

coren at teleport.com (Gary Heavysege) wrote:

 

> Our local group will shortly be having a small potluck, and I have been

> asked to bring a "salad-type" dish.  I'd like to keep things as "period"

> as is possible, but I don't have any recipes that fit the bill.  I recall

> having been told, long ago, that what we think of as "salads" are

> completely non-period...do any of you have a good recipe for this sort of

> vegetable based appetizer?  I would *greatly* appreciate any help!

 

If you can hold of a book called Sallets Humbles and Shrewsbury Cakes, it

will help you with suggestions. The author is Ruth Ann Beebe. She agrees

that modern salads are totally non-period-they thought raw vegetables and

fruit were harmful-but they did occasionally eat them. Some possibilities

that involve currently available foods are boiled onions with vinegar and

oil, or samphire(whatever that is)with bean pods, aspauragus and

cucumbers, also with vinegar and oil, or olives and capers, or (this may

sound unlkely, but they're claiming documentation) young lettice, cabage,

purslan(pursley) and divers other hearbes(whatever's available, I guess).

This time the vinagrette has a little sugar added.

You might also went to check the rec.arts.cooking.historical newsgroup for

other suggestions.

Hope this is helpful. I went through the same problem years ago at a

Richard III Society potluck.

Caroline Richenda of the White Rose mka Carol Mitchell

--

Tim Allison

tallison at mcs.com

 

 

From: mujle at uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jennifer L Edwards)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Date: 9 Jan 1995 03:32:27 GMT

Organization: Educational Computing Network

 

Greg Rose (greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu) wrote:

: Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

 

: One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that

: no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a

: recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections

: of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  I rather suspect

: that it's actual purpose was to remind folks that there are more

: interesting things to put in salads than simple leafy vegs.  Anyhow,

: the text is as follows:

 

:      Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek,

:      borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew,

:      rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.

:      Pluk hem small wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with

:      rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

 

: Slightly modernized:

 

:      Take parsley, sage, green garlic, chiboles, onions, leeks,

:      borage, mint, poretts, fennel, and garden [town] cress,

:      rue, rosemary, parsley; lave and wash them clean.  Pick

:      [the nasty bits out of] them.  Pluck them small with your

:      hand, and mix them will with oil; add vinegar and salt,

:      and serve it forth.

 

: Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I

: wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage

: are tough too, though at least possible).  And I wouldn't rule out

: some lettuces, or spinach, or any readily available fresh herbs

: (many supermarkets carry fresh basil these days, for example).

 

: -- Angharad/Terry

 

Greetings from Gwenhwyvar Lawen, someone who cooks alot. I just thought

I'd add something to the advice given above. According to Hieatt and

Butler, the editors of the Early English Text Society's version of Curye

on Inglysch (where my copy of the Forme of Cury comes from), chybolles

are spring onions (US scallions), and porrettes are young leeks or green

onions. Also, when I make this salad and don't have all of the herbs

available fresh, I put dried herbs into the vinegar and oil dressing. It

turns out very well. I never use rue, as the herb book I have says that

strong doses are toxic and should never be taken internally without

strict medical supervision (that's good enough for me).

 

Pro cocto-

Gwenhwyvar Lawen

March of Lochmorrow, MK

 

Jennifer Edwards-Ring

Western Illinois University

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)

Subject: Re: Question about period food

Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)

Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:45:55 GMT

 

Suze Hammond (Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:

 

: Is it a correct assumption that this lettuce would be more like one of the

: modern leaf lettuces, such as red or romaine, instead of iceberg heads?

 

   I wish I had more reference on this,(I'm still working on that

carrot issue).    Since there are at least 6 more types of lettuce than

I've ever seen in a grocery store, and since the types that are sold in

the US aren't the types that are popular in Europe (where most lettuces

were developed anyway)...it's probably not safe to assume that one (leaf)

is more period than the other (iceberg) without checking it out. For all

I can tell there's one that 's a crunchy leaf-head lettuce (not Romaine) that

could be older than either of them. (If anyone comes up with any info

please let me know and I'll add it to the research I come up with)

 

   Also, Catmint (Nepeta mussinii) and Catnip (Nepeta cataria) are two

seperate herps (in the same family, obviously), although catmint could be

refering to catnip. (someone noted that Rue was used as an abortificant

and should probably be avoided for that reason...Catnip was historically

used in a tea to induce menstruation so pregnant women may want to avoid

it, also. (My SO drinks it occaisionally with no ill effects)

--

-- ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry at netcom.com>

 

 

From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cooking Question

Date: 10 May 1995 19:08:21 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln       

 

Margaret Griffith (peggieg at u.washington.edu) wrote:

: I have seen several references in sixteenth/seventeenth century cookbooks

: (Digby, etc.) to "Pot-herbs" (for examples, add to the pottage a

: collander of pot herbs...").

: Can anyone enlighten me as to what would constitute "pot herbs" in this

: time period?

: Thank you.

: Meg Penrose

 

Generally, "greens".  Leaves to toss into the pot.  For country folk,

stuff you didn't need to grow but could gather:  leaves of lettuce,

chickweed (_Stellaria media_) shepherd's purse (_Capsella

bursa-pastoris_), purslane (_Portulaca olearcea_), watercress,

turnips, spinach, goosefoot (_Chenopodium album_), dandelion,

salad burnet, arugala to name a few I like.

For city folk, cheaply purchased leaves.

 

If we're talking Digby, then English rather than Italian edible wild

plants, and Culpeper (Complete Herbal) is a pretty good source as he

often mentions which are potherbs.   Many American lawn weeds are period

potherbs, likely because they were repeatedly introduced by people who

wanted to eat them, and so became established in the New World.

But check any plant you don't purchase in a major market for safety in

2 modern herbals--a variety of period greens are considered unsafe

today. (2 herbals because authors vary greatly in their willingness

to express cautions).  

Agnes/Kathy

kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu

 

 

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pickled Lemons

Date: 21 Jan 1997 01:14:34 GMT

 

In <5c08ju$jla$1 at news.ptd.net> L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt

<liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> writes:

 

>I am searching for a source (unredacted) that will have directions for

>making Pickled Lemons and the other sorts of things that might be

>strewn upon a grand Elizabethan Salad.

 

Robert May, _The Accomplisht Cook, 4th edition, 1678, has "To pickle

Lemons" and says simply "Boil them in water and salt, and put them up

with white-wine."

 

May also includes a number of things for "sallats" which would include

the grand sallat.  You may want to search out a copy.  Ditto for

Gervase Markham's _The English Housewife_, 1615, as edited by Michael

Best. This you might find in a library.  He includes a number of salad

ideas including carving carrots into fantastic shapes and making

"strange sallats" with flowers composed of parts of vegetables.  May

would be an excellent resource.

 

May also has "Of pickling sallats" where he says "...they are only

boiled, and then drained from the water, spread upon a table, and a

good store of salt thrown over them, then when they are thorough cold,

make a pickle with water, salt, and a little vinegar, and with the same

pot them up in close earthen pots, and serve them forth as occasion

shall serve."

 

Seems to me there was at least one other reference to pickled lemons

but I can't find it right now.

 

Elise/Alys

 

 

From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:03:32 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: SC - Recipe

 

OK. Here's my first one. This is a very tasty salad that I redacted from  the

Charles Perry translation of The Baghdad Cookery Book, 1226 C.E. which is

found in Duke Coriadoc's "Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks".

To serve 100 multiply by 20, etc.

 

......................

DRY CURDS WITH VEGETABLES

 

1/8 cp fresh mint, chopped finely

1 stalk celery, chopped finely

1 leek (white part only), choppped finely

1 lb. cottage cheese (large curd), drained in a colander in a cool place over

night

Salt, to taste

1/2 tsp dry mustard, fine ground

1/2 cp walnuts, finely chopped

 

Mix mint, celery and leek together. Add drained cottage cheese. Mix well. Add

salt and dry mustard. Mix thoroughly. Sprinkle walnuts across top. Serves 5.

(The Baghdad Cookery Book; 1226 c.e.)

(Trans: Charles Perry, pub. Duke Coriadoc of the Bow

"A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks")

 

Redaction by Lord Ras al Zib

 

 

From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:07:55 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.

 

In a message dated 97-04-16 04:06:38 EDT, you write:

 

<< If you try eating the dandelion greens and other wild herbs, you will

find them to be quite bitter.>>

 

Bring to a boil; drain. Repeat 2 x more. The bitterness is then almost

non-existenant and even mild when compared with endive, etc.

 

<< A great deal of game has a strong taste compared to our supermarket

meats. These would be very good reasons to add sugar to so many foods and to

use many spices.  Given the natural foods and the use of verjuice in so many

receipts, I think that medieval preferances must have been rather different

from ours.  Personally, I don't much like 'sour' and do not at all enjoy 'bitter'. >>

 

When I was growing up a flask of vinegar always was at the table at every

meal to slosh onto spinach and other green vegetables. Dandelions were ALWAYS

served with vinegar and bacon.. Other foods such as sauerkraut, sauerbraten,

salad dressings of all sorts, etc. leap to mind. IMHO, I don't think the

taste for vinegar (read verjuice or sour has changed for certain populations.

General tastes for most Americans have changed but we're generally wierd

anyway and our food was described as tasting like "cardboard" by a Japanese

friend of mine.

 

Lord Ras

 

 

From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:52:55 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.

 

Lord Ras wrote:

When I was growing up a flask of vinegar always was at the table at every

meal to slosh onto spinach and other green vegetables. Dandelions were ALWAYS

served with vinegar and bacon.

 

Very period.  Modernly, saute those greens in a mild broth with some orange

juice... You'll love it.

 

Period style, see below.

 

        Tibor

 

Leafy Greens                ("Joutes", Harleian MS 279, #3)

Sources found in "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", Cindy Renfrow, 1991.

 

Leafy Greens, or Joutes

 

"Joutes. Take Borage, Vyolet, Malwys, Percely, Yong Wortys, Bete, Auence,

Longebeff, wyth Orage and o(th)er, pyke hem clene, and caste hem on a

vessel, and boyle hem a goode whyle; (Th)an take hem and presse hem on

  a fayre bord, an hew hem ryght smal, an put whyte brede (th)er-to, an

grynd wyth-al; an (th)an caste hem in-to a fayre potte, an gode freshe

brothe y-now (th)er-to (th)orw a straynowr, [& caste] (th)er-to .ii. or

.iii.  Marybonyes, or elles fayre freshe brothe of beff, and let hem sethe

to-gederys a whyle: an (th)an caste (th)er-to Safron, and let hem sethe

to-gederys a whyle, an(th)an caste (th)er-to safron and salt; and serue

it forth in a dysshe, an bakon y-boyled in a-no(th)er dysshe, as men seruyth

furmenty wyth venyson."

 

This dish calls for many spring greens.  I could not find most of those, and

therefore chose to use other, more available but still period greens.  I

also converted this to a Lenten recipe by substituting vegetable broth for

beef broth or marrow.  I expect you may use any greens you choose.  Of

course, this being Lenten, no boiled bacon for you...  I omited salt, as it

appears in the bouillion

 

2 cups each of the following greens: broccoli rabe, Chard, Kale, Parsley.

1/2 vegetable boullion cube

1 cup plain breadcrumbs

pinch saffron

 

Wash, dry, pick over and de-stem the various greens.  Place a cup or so of

water in the bottom of a pot.  Boil, and once it is boiling, place the

greens in the pot.  Stir frequently, until the greens color intensifies, and

they become softer.  Don't bother over-boiling: they cook another time.

 

Take off the heat, drain and dry carefully.  I used both a salad spinner,

and pressed them between two plates lined with paper towel. Chop finely by

hand, or as I did in a food processor.

 

Heat a cup or so of water in the pot, and dissolve the boullion cube and the

saffron in the water.  Once it boils, add the vegetables, and the bread

crumbs, a little at a time.  The crumbs should sort of bind the vegetables

together a little, but not really change the color of the dish.  Heat until

it begins to stick together.

 

 

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:42:28 GMT

Subject: Re: SC - Mediterranean Feast

 

While not as "Mediterranean" in style as Greece or Turkey, there are

an exceptional number of salads and fruit/veggie dishes listing in

"The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy. An offering to Lucy, Countess

of Bedford", by Giacomo Castelvetro. The original is in Italian and

written in 1614 (just a hair post period). I tend to have the greatest

interest in Late Renaissance Italian cuisine, so this and Platina are

my current bibles. ;-) The copy I have is put out by Viking Press,

with Introduction and Translation by Gillian Riley (c) 1989 and

Foreword by Jane Grigson. ISBN 0-670-82724X. I am not sure if this

book is even in print any longer, but Amazon.Com was able to come up

with a copy for me.

 

The basic Italian salad would consist of greens (yes, including

lettuce) placed in a bowl rubbed with garlic and sprinkled with

vinegar, salt and (usually olive) oil. (Modern Italian salads, at

least in Northern Italy, are pretty much the same thing to this day.

Dump the "Italian Dressing"! ;-))

 

To be more specific, Castelvetro proclaims:"Of all the salads we eat

in the spring, the mixed salad is the best and most wonderful of all.

Take young leaves of mint, those of garden cress, basil, lemon balm,

the tips of salad burnet, tarragon, the flowers and tenderest leaves

of borage, the flowers of swine cress, the young shoots of fennel,

leaves of rocket, of sorrel, rosemary flowers, some sweet violets, and

the tenderest leaves or the hearts of lettuce. When these precious

herbs have been picked clean and washed in several waters, and dried a

little with a clean linen cloth, they are dressed as usual, with oil,

salt and vinegar." Let me reiterate that drying part, I know quite a

few people who can't stand going to a restaurant and having a puddle

of water at the bottom of their salad bowl. It is apparently

unappetizing to some people.

 

If you had some specific flavors or styles in mind, let me know and

I'll see what M. Castelvetro has to say about them. The listings are

by season and then, generally, by fruit/herb/veggie. Oh, and one of my

favorites is the listing under Sweet Fennel (it has a seed that tastes

like licorice): "Fennel Seeds are gathered in the autumn. We flavour

various dishes with them, and eat them on their own after meals." So

now I always have a little dish with Fennel Seeds to "sweeten the

breath" after a feast. It just seems like such a nice little touch.

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 16:27:54 GMT

Subject: Re: SC - medieval Italian salads

 

On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:01:19 -0500 (CDT), Stefan li Rous wrote:

[brief description of late period Italian salad snipped]

>I'm not sure if I understand this description or not. Are you saying

>that the empty bowl is rubbed with garlic and sprinkled with

>vinegar, salt and oil and then the salad is added? Rather than the

>salad being rubbed with garlic and then sprinkled with the other

>items?

>Definitely a different effect than "modern"salads. It seems like most

>of the garlic taste would end up on the bowl and not in the salad and

>that the medieval salad would be much drier.

 

Apparently Castelvetro is indeed proclaiming that the bowl itself is

rubbed with garlic. Personally I would go for this technique in a

salad anyways, instead of chopping garlic into it, because garlic can

be a bit strong. This way that hint of garlic would be imparted on the

flavor of the salad. Especially since we are used to finely chopped

garlic that has been made milder by a form of pickling in modern Italian

dressings. The rubbing on the inside of a bowl will certainly impart

some of the stronger oils there providing a scent as well at allowing

some of the oils to rub off onto the leaves. Besides, the garlic is

optional since not all of his salad recipes use it.

 

Now for the fuller explanation, Castelvetro basically states that in

Italy a good salad is made by taking herbs, such as mint, garden

cress, basil, fennel shoots, edible flowers, rosemary and tender

leaves or hearts of lettuce. All should be washed several times, (He

discusses swishing them in a bowl of water and draining several times

until all of the sand and gunk is off of them) dried well on a linen

cloth (the reason well explained by a good gentle in an earlier

posting) and then placed into a  bowl which has some salt in it. The

herbs and salt are then thoroughly stirred together and oil is added

"with a generous hand" and again stirred "so that each leaf is

properly coated with oil". Then vinegar is added last of all, but just

a bit to provide a good flavor.

 

Castelvetro proclaims, "The secret to a good salad is plenty of salt,

generous oil and little vinegar". He also states that his experiences

in other countries show that Germans take poorly washed leaves and

without draining or drying will put on just a little salt, too much

oil and far too much vinegar, generally producing a more decorative

effect to the detriment of the flavor of the salad.

 

He also proclaims that the English are "worse" and that after a very

poor washing of the salad (he almost questions if the salads are

washed at all) that a good deal of vinegar is then put on the salad

and is not stirred in with either oil or salt, both of which are added

at the table. (Which implies that vials of oil and salt shakers were

evident as condiments already on the table in England by the early

17th Century. At least in the places Castelvetro went to. Kinda cool,

eh?)

 

Remember the accounts above are by an Italian traveling into areas of

these other countries, so while we might deduce that the English MAY

prefer more Vinegar than Germans or Italians, in general, we cannot

truly take into account what the real preferences were. After all,

Castelvetro may have just eaten at the "wrong" places.

 

So if you mean that a Renaissance salad was drier than an American

salad, where we usually pour on a big glob of dressing, then you are

probably quite right. But such salads were not completely "dry", since

Castelvetro expected the leaves to be lightly coated with (usually

olive) oil. Just remember that this is for a specific time and place

and that a hundred years earlier it's possible that people in Padua

despised salads, while those in Milano could have eaten vast

quantities with lots of vinegar, no oil and parmesan cheese (wild

examples only with no bearing on historical fact).

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

Date: Mon,  4 Aug 1997 15:20:07 -0400 (EDT)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: SCA myths

 

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 4-Aug-97 Re: SC - Re: SCA

myths by Stephen Bloch at adl15.adel

> Although I consider it quite likely that "some vegetables were often

> eaten raw" (and fruits, for that matter, although medieval medical books

> seem to consider both unhealthy), and that the "recipes" were too simple

> to write down, I wonder what evidence we DO have for the practice.

 

There are period recipes for herb salad that don't require cooking.

Platina mentions eating various greens raw, including lettece, colewort,

endive, ox-tongue, purslain, and chicory.  There is also a mention that

eating turnips without cooking them causes inflammations and

obstructions, which I believe is an indication that they were

occasionally eaten raw.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:42:42 -0500

From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re:  SC - period salads

 

Hi, Katerine here.  Stefan asked for pointers to the salads from Platina.

I don't do much work from Platina, and I'm not in the mood to dig them

out at the moment, but here's one from Forme of Cury (recipe 78, page

115 in Cury on Inglysch):

 

        Salat. Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles,

        oynouns, leek, borage, myntes, porettes, fenel, and

        toun cressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and

        waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem small wi[th]

        [th]yn honde, any myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on

        vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

 

In more Modern language:

 

        Salad. Take parsley, sage, green garlic, scallions

        [possibly spring onions], onions, leeks, borage, mint,

        young leeks [or green onions], fennel [the bulb], and

        town cress [or water cress for a close analog], rue,

        rosemary, purslane; lave and wash them clene ["lave"

        means "wash" too].  Pick them [to remove bad bits].

        Pluck them small with your hands, and mix them well

        with oil; lay on vinegar and salt, and serve.

 

I wouldn't feel compulsive about finding everything.  This *is* a salad.

Some of the things that make it different from most modern salads are

the large number of herbs (fresh clearly best in this context), the

use of leeks, the fennel and cress, and the simple variety.  All of

those are easy enough to reproduce in small quantity, and possible

even in feast amounts.  You will also notice that lettuce is conspicuously

absent! Not to say that the English didn't eat it in salads; it's

conspicuously absent from the recipe corpur, but they grew it, and

ate it somehow.  Just, it's possible to make a green salad without it.

 

Enjoy!

- -- Katerine/Terry

 

 

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:42:28 GMT

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Subject: Re: SC - period salads

 

On the questions about salads in period I can only offer what I have

on Renaissance Italian styles. I had posted a couple of months ago

what Castelvetro wrote on salads, so I will not repeat that again. (If

you really want that post I can e-mail it privately for those who had

not seen it.) That was just slightly post period (1614) and probably

quite relevant for a late 16th century salat. He does list lettuce

varieties of capucina and romana (or Cos) lettuce. Purslane and endive

appear to be popular lettuce-like substitutes or additions for use in

salads.

 

So, now I will pull it back to Platina (Venice, Italy, 1475).In his

"On Honest Indulgence and Good Health" he covers a bit on lettuce

stating that there are several varieties available and that

Lacticaulis, Sessilis and Crispa are the best. (All lettuce is

considered cold and damp, for those that care). He also lists

goat-lettuce and Serralia lettuce. He states that lettuce can, and

often is, eaten plain with a sprinkle of ground salt, a little oil and

a little more vinegar. "There are those who add a little mint and

parsley to this preparation, so that it does not seem too bland". I'll

skip the bit about cooking lettuce.

 

Platina then goes on to endive, which he considers a type of lettuce.

It is also prepared in the same way as lettuce. He also lists a wide

variety of other raw leafy vegetables and how to prepare them, but our

interest is more on:

 

"On preparing a salad of several greens.

A preparation of several greens is made with lettuce, bugloss, mint,

catmint, fennel, parsley, sisymbrium, origan, chervil, cicerbita which

doctors call teraxicon, plantain, morella, and several other fragrant

greens, well washed and pressed and put in a large dish. Sprinkle them

with a good deal of salt and blend with oil, then pour vinegar over it

all when it has sat a little; it should be eaten and well chewed

because wild greens are tough. This sort of salad needs a little more

oil than vinegar. It is more suitable in winter than in summer,

because it requires much digestion and this is stronger in winter."

 

For those of you who think you can better figure out the ingredients

from the original Latin:

 

"CONDITUM Padodopum.

It item cenditu pandodopu ex lactuca: buglesso: meno: ceripholio:

cicerbita: qua teraxicon: laceda: qua arnaglossam medici uocat:

morella: foeniculi flore: ac plersiq; alus odoriferis herbis: bene

lotis: expressisq; pa tina ampla requnut: sale perfuso ubi paululum

resederit: eau? syluatica durities comedenda: ac bene dendibus

coterenda sunt. Hoc coditu plusculu olei & minus aceti requirit. Hieme

magis q aestate conuenit: qa plus concoctionis: quae hieme valida est

requirit."

 

My copy is tough to read and I don't know Latin, so assume any

transcription errors above are mine.

 

On a related note about the boiled onions, Platina says this about

preparing onions, for those that might be interested:

 

"The onion is also cooked under the ashes and coals until all the

rawness is steamed out of it; when it has cooled it is chopped finely

and put in a dish with salt and oil and defrutum, or rolled in must.

There are those who also sprinkle the onion with pepper or cinnamon."

 

Castelvetro in 1614 wrote this of onions:

 

"Cooked onions: When there are no spring onions, we make a salad of

roasted onions seasoned with crushed pepper. This is tastier and more

wholesome than eating them boiled. Onions without pepper are excellent

for clearing up the sort of bad cough that lingers after a cold."

 

I hope that some of you find that useful!

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:20:16 +1100 (EST)

From: Charles McCN <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>

Subject: Re: SC - vegetarian dish help please

 

There is something in the british museum cookbook for medieval (I think)

called a Salat. It is basically a colloection of green stuff, adding

herbs that would be around, and leaving out the iceberg lettuce which (so

I have been told - anyone know?) was developed in 17th C. Anyway, it is

on the web at

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/med-european-coll.html

 

What period did you have in mind?

Charles

 

 

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:47:57 -0000

From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>

Subject: RE: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

 

> The whole thought of these luscious leafy little morsels makes my mouth

> water...and my mind wonder about what exactly  we can find in the way of

> documentation for serving a dish of greens with dressing. I have found

> "boiled salad", salad of Lemons (basically a  preserved peel dish, from a

> Book of Fruits and Flowers), directions for cooking spinach into a tart, or

> to boil and then fry it strewing on spices etc...  I am wondering if anyone

> has found a recipe for FRESH GREENS served in the way of a modern salad.

> Salad is almost always a component of the feasts in the current middle ages

> (regardless of the season). How did that happen? Is it convenience, cost, or

> modern tastes intruding upon our attempt at re-creation? Sometimes the

> simple questions about feast management are the ones that challenge you!

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  And by great co-incidence I'm working on

Formond's list of plants dated to c 1500 (he died 1542/3 but the handwriting

dates it to around 1500 - this information from John Hervey's Early

Gardening Catalogues 1972 SBN 85033 021 1 published by Phillimore).  the

text is also known as Sloane MS 1201 in the British Museum.

 

       He gives something like 100 plants for gardens under the headings of

' for potage', 'for sauce', 'for the copp', 'for a Salade', ; to stylle',

'for savour and beaute', 'rotys for a gardyn' and 'for a herber'.  BTW if

anyone knows what 'for the copp' or to stylle' mean, I'd love to know.

 

       'For a Salade' is

 

       'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,

cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,

rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red

fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'

 

       the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey

identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

 

       Lettuce (or letuse or letyse) does appear on the list, but under

pottage.

 

       By John Aubrey's time (17th century) he identifies lettuce as the

basis for any salad.

 

> A) Has anyone found a recipe or reference to serving fresh, raw greens (with

> acoutrements) such as we find in a modern salad? If so, how might the dish

> have differed to the "modern" interpretation of a dinner salad? What about

> the dressing (if any)? If the salad differes considerably to modern

> interpretations, what would the finished dish be like?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  As for dressings, I've references to oil and

verjuice, but I'll have to hunt them out

 

> A.1)What about sprouts? Were they a consumed food (apart from barley

> sprouts that were used for beer-making)?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Not seen anything to suggest it.

 

> B) What sorts of greens might be involved in a period salad? How might they

> differ from region to region?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Not just greens!  Lots of flowers as well -

wonderful visual opportunity!  In the banquet I did in October I got the

people making them up to use pomegranate seeds as decoration - they looked

wonderful

 

> C) Does salad appear in every culture we study, or just western Europe?

> D) Does the nature of Salad evolve through the middle ages and rennaisance,

> or remain constant? Are there "fad" salads that may have been popular at

> one time?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  There's the Elizabethan Salmagundy (not seen

earlier references) which involves meat and fish or eggs as well as the

usual range of herbs etc.

 

> E) Where in the meal might we expect the salad to occur? Why?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Gervase Markham has the start of any dinner

being 3 salads, one boiled but the other two fresh greens.  I tend to serve them either there, or with the lighter dishes on the second course.

 

> F) Why might our modern cooks avoid serving preserved fruits and

> vegetables,

> and how does that slant our perception of what a "real feast" would have

> been like?

 

       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  I've used pickled walnuts, pickled samphire

and olives in salads, which have worked well.  My problem is transporting

glass jars around the countryside, with the risk of breaking them, so I

prefer to minimise the use of glass.  However I do hope to pickle broombuds

and barberries this year!

 

       Almost forgot - sweetmeats of all sorts - I do try to take those

along too!

 

Caroline

 

 

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:17:09 -0500

From: Woeller D <angeliq1 at erols.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

 

>         [Yeldham, Caroline S] 'For a Salade' is

>         'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,

> cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,

> rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red

> fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'

>         the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey

> identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

 

Also known as Helen Mount Viola, or popularly (around here, anyways) as

'Johnny Jump Up'. It is a hardy perennial, which looks like a miniature

purple, lavender and yellow pansy.  Seeds are fairly widely avaiable,

usually listed as Viola tricolor. They are a charming, easy to grow,

readily self-sowing flower (they can take on the propagation properties

of a weed, if you aren't careful) I have previously used the flowers as

a very pretty addition in salads, but a recent post on this list

identified pansies as poisonous, and I believe they are fairly closely

related, so I'm not sure if they're truly safe. If I find out more, I'll

pass it on.

Bon chance,

Angelique

 

 

Date: 4 Mar 1998 12:45:14 -0800

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain

 

<snip>identified pansies as poisonous, and I believe they are fairly closely

 

All of my research has shown viola, violets, pansies, johny-jump-ups, etc. as

safe and edible-

- -brid

 

 

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:51:28 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: RE: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

 

<snip>

>       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  And by great co-incidence I'm working on

>Formond's list of plants dated to c 1500 (he died 1542/3 but the handwriting

>dates it to around 1500 - this information from John Hervey's Early

>Gardening Catalogues 1972 SBN 85033 021 1 published by Phillimore).  the

>text is also known as Sloane MS 1201 in the British Museum.

>       He gives something like 100 plants for gardens under the headings of

>' for potage', 'for sauce', 'for the copp', 'for a Salade', ; to stylle',

>'for savour and beaute', 'rotys for a gardyn' and 'for a herber'.  BTW if

>anyone knows what 'for the copp' or to stylle' mean, I'd love to know.

 

Hello! My hunch is 'for the copp', means literally 'for the cup', i.e.,

herbs to be used to make wine or other beverages, or perhaps to be eaten

with wine as a sop.  To 'stylle' means to distill.

 

>       'For a Salade' is

>       'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,

>cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,

>rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red

>fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'

>       the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey

>identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

 

Gerard has a short section on obsolete English names of plants:

"Stanmarch is Alisander."  Selbestryune is not listed there or in the

index, or in the various names for Viola tricolor (Iacea, Herba Trinitatis,

herb Trinitie, Herba Clauellata, Pensees). (Or in Culpeper, Rohde, or

Britton & Brown.)

 

Cindy/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:16:00 +0000

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

 

And it came to pass on  4 Mar 98, that L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt

wrote:

 

> I am wondering if anyone has found a recipe for FRESH

> GREENS served in the way of a modern salad.

> A) Has anyone found a recipe or reference to serving fresh, raw

> greens (with acoutrements) such as we find in a modern salad?

 

> Aoife

 

I do not have a salad recipe per se, but some information on which

vegetables were eaten raw in 15th century Spain.  The _Arte Cisoria_,

written in 1423, is a carving manual which explains the proper way

to cut up a wide variety of foodstuffs.  Here is a list of vegetables

which are eaten uncooked.  (Note that some veggies were to be served

either raw or cooked in various ways.)

 

Carrots

Parsnips

Artichokes

Lettuce (the author explains how to cut lettuce, then specifies that

the ones which are to be cooked do not need cutting.  From this I

gather that some lettuces were eaten raw.)

Turnips -- sometimes eaten raw, when tender.

Radishes -- sprinkled with salt after cutting to release their

juices

 

There is no mention of combining vegetables into a salad, nor of

dressings, but then, this is a carving manual and not a cookbook.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper  at  idt.net

 

 

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:31:38 -0500

From: "Tina Carney" <brighid at iserv.net>

Subject: Re: SC - salads

 

This question about salads has probably already been answered but here is a

recipe I have, supposedly from the Boke of Nurture c.1460

 

Take parsel, sawge, garlec, chibollas, onions, leek, borage, myntes,

porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosemarye, purslayne, lave, and wash

them clene.  Pike hem, pluk hem small with thyn hond and myng hem wel with

rawe oile.  Lay on vynegar and salt and serve it forth.

 

Brighid the Ageless

living the canton of Rimsholt

in the Glorious Middle Kingdom

 

 

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:36:55 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - salads

 

> This question about salads has probably already been answered but here is a

> recipe  I have, supposedly from the Boke of Nurture c.1460

> Take parsel, sawge, garlec, chibollas, onions, leek, borage, myntes,

> porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosemarye, purslayne, lave, and wash

> them clene.  Pike hem, pluk hem small with thyn hond and myng hem wel with

> rawe oile.  Lay on vynegar and salt and serve it forth.

> Brighid the Ageless

 

According to Lorna Sass, the recipe is from the Forme of Cury (c. 1390

approx.). Your particular copy was probably taken from Sass' To the Kings

Taste and wrongfully attributed to John Russell's Boke of Nurture because of

the quote which precedes the recipe in Sass' book.  "Beware of saladis,

grene metis, and of frutes rawe."  --  John Russell, Boke of Nurture (c.

1460). Unfortunately, I do not have copies of the originals to verify this.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 15:01:42 -0500

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - Borage

 

A question was asked, regarding documentaion for borage.

 

IV 78.  Salat.  Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, leek,

borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,

purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem small wi(th)

(th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt,

and serue it forth.  p.115.

Hieatt, Constance & Sharon Butler. CURYE ON INGLYSCH. Oxford   University

Press. 1985.

 

The Fromond List, c. 1525, gives uses for borage as both herbs for

pottage and herbs for salad.It is not starred, as a native plant.  This

means that the plant was imported into England.

Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN

0-500-01691-7.          Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

 

The history section on borage gives several Latin possible

interpretations for the name, quotes a Roman verse in Latin, "Ego, Borage

Gaudia semper ago."  (I, Borage, bring always courage).  She quotes

Pliny "maketh a man merry and joyfull."  He claimed that borage steeped

in wine was the famous Nepenthe of Homer.  A 17thC. quote, also.  Candied

flowers were given to persons recovering from long illnesses and those

prone to swooning,  Still called 'cool-ankard' in England, etc. p. 53.

Keville, Kathi.  Herbs, An Illustrated Encyclopedia.  A Complete

Culinary, Cosmetic,     Medicinal, and Ornamental Guide.  Barnes &

Noble, NY, 1997.  ISBN 0 7607 0486 4.

 

Allison

 

 

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:41:19 +0100

From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>

Subject: RE: SC - Borage

 

> Alison posted:

> The Fromond List, c. 1525, gives uses for borage as both herbs for

> pottage and herbs for salad.It is not starred, as a native plant.  This

> means that the plant was imported into England.

> Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN

> 0-500-01691-7.        Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

 

Sylvia Landsberg has this slightly wrong.  The starring on the Fromond

list does not necessarily mean it is a native plant; it means it does not

appear on a 13th century list of plants which was used as a comparison by

the later writer who published the list (and MLAH and I can't remember his

name). This may mean it was introduced between the 13th and the end of

the 15th century, but there are other possible explanations (the 13th

century writer didn't happen to use it, he forgot it when making his list,

he didn't like it or didn't approve of it so left it off the list).  The

other point to make is that the 13th century list isn't necessarily a list

of native plants - there were introductions before the 13th century.

 

Caroline

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:14:22 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Will's- more recipes

 

Here are the few recipes my co-feastocrat at Will's Revenge, His Lordship

Thorstein, was willing to share. :-) Sorry for the lack of documentation but

this isn't my work. Enjoy. They are wonderful. :-)

 

<snip of other recipes>

 

Salat

Salad greens (avoid iceberg lettuce)

1 tbs. each fresh chopped parsley, sage, mint, and any other available,

suitable herbs

1-2 bunches scallions, sliced

1-3 cloves garlic, minced

optional: 2-3 small leeks finely sliced

optional: 2-3 tbs. chopped chives

* cup salad oil (preferably olive)

3 tbs. vinegar

1* tsp. salt

 

Wash and tear up greens.  When well drained, put in bowl or bowls and add

sliced scallions and leeks.  Herbs, garlic, and oil may be added now, with

the salt and vinegar reserved for the last minute, or if you prefer, mix herbs,

garlic, oil, vinegar and salt as you normally would a salad dressing and add

all at the same time just before serving.  Mix and toss in the usual way

 

 

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:03:49 -0400

From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Pre-mixed field greens - was: Re: SC - salads (long)

 

needlwitch at msn.com wrote, re premixed field greens:

> Yep, I have gotten it many times at stores in my area. It beats iceberg

> salads hands down. Kind of spoiled me I guess. And it is fun trying to

> identify all the different greens. It does cost a bit more, though it is

> well worth it, IMHO.

 

Yes, this is good stuff. You can find it at good greenmarkets, farmer's

markets, and maybe some supermarkets, for all I know. Sold as "mixed field

greens" of "mesclun". I usually order it in 3- or 5-lb boxes: a box goes a

long way because these greens are much lighter than lettuce: you get maybe 35

- - 50 good-sized servings from  a box, depending on whether it's a 3 or a 5

- -pounder.

 

It also generally comes prewashed and pretrimmed, ready for dressing and

serving. A quick look for various, uh, forest floor items might not be such a

bad idea though. Let's say it is clean and ready to serve 98% of the time,

within my experience, and is full of various animal byproducts and hunks of

wood the other 2% of the time. On the other hand, washing it just in case can

hurt the greens, so that should be avoided too, because some of these greens

are really very delicate. (At Bouley we were forbidden to run tap water on

them, to avoid breakage; we had to fill a sink and slowly immerse

them...possibly a bit excessive, but when you're taking someone else's money,

etc.) Drying them afterwards can also be a problem, since salad spinners tend

to be rather small. One trick I encountered is to gather your greens up in a

small tablecloth, hold onto the corners and swing the greens around like a

centrifuge. For events, I recommend finding burly fighter types, the original

food processors!

 

As for the compromised periodicity of the greens being used in the mix, it's

true there are some lettuces involved, and lettuces would not have appeared in

the average European salad until well after the Middle Ages, but many greens

that _would_ likely have been there in a period mixed salad _are_ there, too.

You'll likely find purslane, baby kale, dandelion, parsley, chives,

watercress, lamb's lettuce, sorrel, baby spinach leaves, endive, along with

some lettuces of various kinds, like baby romaine, red leaf, and baby red oak

leaves (which I don't think are actual oak leaves, but are shaped like them).

The best mixes will also often include some edible flowers, either whole or in petals.

 

Adamantius

Østgardr, East

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:23:46 EDT

From: CONNECT at aol.com

Subject: Re:  Re: Pre-mixed field greens - was: Re: SC - salads (long)

 

Phil & Susan Troy wrote:

 

<<What I meant was that while lettuce was eaten in period, it seems to have been

consumed mostly in the Eastern Mediterranean regions, and does not appear in

any salad recipes I can think of offhand. I think it's going to be near the

eighteenth century before it will appear with any frequency in an English

salad recipe>>

 

I'm looking at my copy of The English Housewife, written by Gervase Markham in

1615. In chapter 2, section 11 and 12, it says:

 

"Of sallats. Simple sallats.

First then to speak of sallats, there be some simple, and some compounded;

some only to furnish out the table, and some both for use and adornation; your

simple sallats are chibols peeled, washed clean, and half oteh green tops cut

clean away, so served on a fruit dish; or chives, scallions, radish roots,

boiled carrots, skirrets, and turnips, with such like served up simply; also,

all young lettuce, cabbage lettuce, purslane, and divers other herbs which may

be served simply without anything but a little vinegar, sallat oil, and sugar;

onions boiled, and stripped from their rind and served up with vinegar, oil

and pepper is a good simple sallat; so is samphire, bean cods, asparagus, and

cucumbers, served in likewise with oil, vinegar, and pepper, with a world of

others, too tedius to nominate.

 

Of compound sallats.

Your compound sallats are first the young buds and knots of all manner of

wholesome herbs at their first springing; as red sage, mints, lettuce,

violets, marigold, spinach and many other mixed together, and then served up

to the table with vinegar, sallat oil and sugar."

 

The English Housewife, by Gervase Markham, edited by Michael R Best, and

published by McGill-Queen Unversity Press. The ISBN of the paperback edition

is 0-7735-1103-2.

 

Your humble servant,

Rosalyn MacGregor

(Pattie Rayl)

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:30:13 +0200

From: Jessica Tiffin <melisant at iafrica.com>

Subject: SC - Salad questions

 

I find myself currently up to the eyebrows in period salad recipes - we're

going into summer, and I'm putting together an article for our newsletter on

period salads, in the hopes that it'll persuade our non-cooking Shire

members that it's possible to bring something both simple and authentic to

our potluck events.

 

I have no problem with the Form of Curye salad or the one from Platina,

having primary versions of both.  It's with the earlier (Roman) and later

(Elizabethan) salad recipes that the trouble starts.

 

I have lots of Elizabethan salad recipes, but all from secondary sources.

The main one is Ruth Ann Beebe's "Sallets, Humbles and Shrewsbury Cakes",

which quotes acres of primary sources, but doesn't specifically attribute

them. She merrily tells us that all the recipes quoted come from Dawson's

"Good Huswife's Jewel" and "Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin",

Gervase Markham's "English Huswife", "Countrey Contentments", and Murrell's

"Delightful Daily Exercise for ladies and gentlewomen".  She doesn't

attribute each individual recipe at all.  I've managed to track down some,

but there are several I can't identify: please, if anyone has copies of the

Elizabethan sources and recognises these, can you tell me where the darned

things come from?  Quoting from secondary sources only is outraging my

earnest postgraduate soul...

 

It seems logical to assume that this one and the long series of "Anothers"

are all from one source:

Sallet for FIsh Daies

First a sallet of green fine hearbs, putting Perriwincles among them with

oyle and vineger.

 

Another

Olives and Capers in one dish, with vinegar and oyle.

 

Another

Carret rootes being minced, and then made in the dish, after the proportion

of a Flowerdeluce, then picke shrimps and lay upon it with oyle and viniger.

 

Another

Onions in flakes laid round about the dishe, with minced carrets laid inthe

middle of the dish, with boyled Hippes in five partes like an Oken leafe,

made and garnished with tawney long cut with oile and vinegar.

(Any ideas what on earth "tawney long cut" is??  And I assume "Hippes" are

rose hips?)

 

Another

Salmon cut long waies, with slices of onions laid upon it, and upon that to

cast violets, oyle and vineger.

 

Another

Take pickelde Herrings and cut them long waies, and so lay them in a dish,

and serve them with oyle and vineger.

 

To compound an excellent Sallet, and which indeed is usall at great Feasts,

and upon Princes Tables

Take a good quantity of blaunch't Almonds, and with your Shredding knife cut

them grosly; then take as manie Raisyns of the sunne cleane washt, andthe

stones pick't out, as many Figges shred like the Almonds, as many Capers,

twise so many Olives, and as many Currants as of all the rest cleane washt:

a good handfull of the small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage; mixe all

these well together with a good store of Sugar and lay them in thebottome of

a great dish, then put unto them Vinegar an dOyle, and scrape more Sugar

over all; then take Orenges and Lemmons, and paring away the outward pills,

cut them into thinne slices, then with those slices cover the sallet all

over; which done, take the thin leafe of the red Coleflowre,a nd with them

cover the Orenges and Lemmons all over, then over those red leaves lay

another course of old Olives, and the slices of wel pickld Coucumbers,

together with the very inward hart of your Cabbage lettice cut up into

slices, then adorne the sides of the dish and the top of the Sallet with

more slices of Lemons and Orenges and so serve it up.

 

The Roman problem is that my only access to Apicius is  "The Roman Cookery

of Apicius," which is translated and adapted by John Edwards.  Would anyone

know if this is a trustworthy translation?  The comments in Stefan's

Florilegium file were fairly disparaging about Edwards's redactions (an

opinon I had independently formed from reading it!) but I'm wondering if the

actual translation has the same kind of errors as the Vehling one?  He

doesn't give the originals, not that I could tell a correct Latin

translation if it was served up to me with oyle and vinegar, but hey.

 

Sorry to bombard everyone with such a long post, but any help will be

gratefully received, including other sources in which I could dig for salad

recipes - are there, for example, any Andalusian ones??

 

Melisant

 

Melisant de Huguenin  *  Jessica Tiffin * melisant at iafrica.com

Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Drachenwald (Cape Town, South Africa)

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:06:47 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Salad questions

 

Hiya from Anne-Marie

Meslisant asks us about period (Elizabethan) salads.

 

None of them look at all familiar to me, except the one that starts:

> To compound an excellent Sallet, and which indeed is usall at great Feasts,

> and upon Princes Tables<snip>

 

That one is from _The English Hous-wife_  c. 1615. One of my favorites! and

believe it or not, it gets inhaled at banquets. Who says they wont eat

salad??? :)

 

re: Apicius salads, dont forget to look at #84. Fresh cukes dressed with

vinegar, honey, liquamen, pepper, broth,. rue (or its equivalent) and a bit

of asafetida. Yum! and so quick to make!

 

- --AM

Madrone/An TIr

Seattle/WA

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:29:06 -0500

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - Salad questions

 

Melisant,

 

Sallets for fish daies is from _The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives

Jewell_; so is 'Olives and Capers', 'White Endive', 'Carret rootes being

minced', 'Onions in flakes', Alexander buds', 'Skirret tootes', 'Salmon

cut', '...pickeeld herring cut long waies...rundles winth onions', and

...pickeeld herring cut long waies ...oyle and vinegar'.

 

>From Spurling, Hilary. _Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book_, Elizabethan

Country House Cooking,

 

To Make Sallads of Gilloflowers

 

Take Red gilloflowers and Cutt of all the whight from them soe lett them

stand all night, then take stronge wine vinegar and as much sugger as

will make it sweete boyle it 2 or 3 walmes them take it from the fire and

when it is through cowlde, put yo[r] gilloflowers into it and soe keepe

them for yo[r] use this way you may doe any other fflowers.

 

"The white base of the petals should be nbipped off because it is said to

be bitter.  Weigh the petals, which must be perfectly dry, measure out an

equal weight of sugar and dissolve it in white wine viegar (which should

do no more than barely boil or it will set solid).  Allow one flued ounce

of vinegar to each ounce of sugar.  These are the proportions given by

Hannah Woolley, in _The Gentlewomans Companion (1673), who reckoned a

pound of sugar per pound of gilliflowers, which would be enough to fill a

plastic carrier bag or large basket.  But the recipe is worth trying even

with only one or two ounces of petals, packed well down in small stone or

glass pots.  Pour the cold syrup over them and seal tightly.  They will

keep their bright colour so long as neither air nor light gets at them."

 

Does anyone know if Bachelor Buttons are edible?  My wild flower garden

(which is probably dead today after a hard freeze last night) has

Bachelor Buttons in blue, but also all shades of white, pink, lavender,

etc. Too bad I didn't read this recipe day before yesterday!

 

Allison

allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA

Kingdom of Aethelmearc

 

 

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:52 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - My latest feast (and a few comments)

 

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> The roasted onion salad sounded good too. But I imagine that is in

> "The Medieval Kitchen".

 

Yes, but it was in Platina's De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine, among

other sources, I believe, first. Platina also treats carrots and several

others, as I recall, in the same way. Roast in the embers, peel/scrape,

slice and dress with vinegar, oil, salt, pepper, and perhaps some fresh

chopped herbs. The roasted vegetables get a slightly caramelized

sweetness that doesn't leech out in the boiling water you'd otherwise be

likely to be using to cook them. Yum!

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:39:45 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Thamesreach Culinary Guild event

 

>The salad had sliced horseradish in it, which I know is a period vegetable

>but am still a bit dubious about our adding it to a salad. Would they have

>done that? I know salads are supposed to 'open the stomach' with their

>'wetness', so would they have added a 'hot' food to it? (I'm assuming

>horseradish is of a hot humor)

 

If your source mentioned horseradish in salad, it is more likely the

*leaves* of the horseradish which were meant, as I believe I have seen period

references to using them thus (I can't recall the exact source right now,

but I can track it down if you wish).

 

Francesco Sirene

 

 

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:27:59 -0500

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: SC - Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted

 

This looks like it to me.  It sure sounds good.  Hey, it's the least I

can do!

Christianna

 

Sir Kenelme Digbe - The Closet Opened

Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted pg 206

"It is a good Sallet, to slice a cold Capon thin; mingle with it some

Sibbolds, Lettice, Rocket, and Tarragon sliced small.  Season all with

Pepper, Salt, Vinegar and Oyl, and sliced Limon.  A little Origanum doth

well with it."

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:55:21 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted

 

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> What are "Sibbolds"?

 

An green-oniony unit, chives or scallions, I forget which.

 

> What is "Origanum"?

 

Oregano

 

> I think I will have to try

> this one sometime, if I can get the ingredients.

 

It's an excellent recipe. I vaguely recall having eaten it made with

arugula, radicchio and Belgian endives, which in combination were pretty

bitter, but they offset the sweet capon meat and the vinegar rather well.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:20 -0500

From: Lurking Girl <tori at panix.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Period French Toast Recipies

 

Bonne of Traquair wrote:

> Someone snagged the copy of Digby from UNC library, which is frustrating

> because I know there is a chicken breast on salad greens recipe in there.

> I've put a call out for it to be returned.

 

For bizarre reasons, I have my copy here at work:

 

SALLET OF COLD CAPON ROSTED

 

It is a good Sallet, to slice a cold Capon thin; mingle with it some

Sibbolds, Lettice, Rocket and Tarragon sliced small.  Season all with

Pepper, Salt, Vinegar and Oyl, and sliced Limon.  A little Origanum

doth well with it.

 

The glossary says that Sibbolds are Welsh onions, and doesn't give an

entry for Rocket.

 

HTH, HAND, etc.,

 

Vika

 

 

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:21:29 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: SC - Early recipes (was: New World Foods-rant)

 

At 4:07 AM +0100 2/10/00, Thomas Gloning wrote:

>In respect to these 1000 years, we have thousands of

>15th century recipes, we have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century

>recipes, we have a few 13th century recipes; some of the early _texts_

are extant only in _later manuscripts_. I would love to see _one_ 7th or

8th or 9th century cookery recipe (30% of the time).

 

How about 6th century?

 

Mustard Greens

Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum

 

Mustard greens are good, boiled in salt and oil. They should be eaten

either cooked on the coals or with bacon, and vinegar to suit the

taste should be put in while they are cooking. [end of original]

 

1 1/4 lb mustard greens (including smaller stems)

1 t salt

3 T oil

4 slices bacon

4 t vinegar

 

Wash mustard greens. Boil stems two minutes, then add leaves, boil 6

more minutes and drain. Fry bacon or cook 6 minutes in microwave.

Heat oil, add greens and stir, then add salt and cook five minutes.

Crumble bacon and put over greens with vinegar. Stir it all up and

cook another 3 minutes.

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 03:54:37 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - Early recipes (was: New World Foods-rant)

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook said:

<<<< 

Thomas Gloning wrote: 'In respect to these 1000 years, we have thousands

of 15th century recipes, we have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century

recipes, we have a few 13th century recipes; some of the early _texts_

are extant only in _later manuscripts_. I would love to see _one_ 7th or

8th or 9th century cookery recipe (30% of the time).'

 

How about 6th century?

 

Mustard Greens

Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum

Mustard greens are good, boiled in salt and oil. They should be eaten

either cooked on the coals or with bacon, and vinegar to suit the

taste should be put in while they are cooking. [end of original]

 

1 1/4 lb mustard greens (including smaller stems)

1 t salt

3 T oil

(...)

>>>> 

 

How about 6th century? Well, there is no 6th century recipe. The recipe

is 20th century, based on an English translation of a certain version of

a 6th century dietetic Latin text.

 

The 'De observatione ciborum' is not a cookbook with recipes, but a

medical, a dietetic work. It is true, that several kinds of culinary

preparations are mentioned in this text. Mentioning a kind of culinary

preparation within a dietetic text is not the same as giving a recipe.

In some cases, mentioning a kind of preparation in some detail can come

close to giving a recipe. The difference between the two is a difference

in function. The function of a recipe is to describe how to prepare a

dish. The function of a dietetic passage is to give medical information

about the health value of some food stuff depending on the _type_ of

food stuff, the _age_, the _preparation_ [here is where the culinary

aspect comes in], etc.

 

As far as I can see, the reconstructed recipe you gave us, is yours

(20th century), based on a 6th century dietetic description.

 

The "original" you quoted in English is not an original, but a

translation. The original is in Latin, and the best edition I know of is

the one of Eduard Liechtenhan (Berlin 1963) in the "Corpus Medicorum [!]

Latinorum" ('Collection of Latin Medical Texts; Collection of Medical

doctors who wrote in Latin').

 

What comes close to your translation is this piece of Latin text (or

what else is the translation a translation of?):

 

"Napi boni sunt. elixi in sale et oleo manducentur, siue cum carnibus

uel laredo cocti ita, ut acetum pro sapore in coctura mittatur." (p.21).

 

What is interesting here among other things is the difference "on the

coals" and the latin "cum carnibus". Looking at the apparatus criticus

of the Liechtenhan edition, [where all the variants of the extant

manuscripts are printed] two of the oldest codices have "carbonibus"

(coals) instead of the "carnibus" of the other manuscripts. Thus, the

translation was based upon a certain _version_ of the Latin text.

 

To sum up:

- -- Anthimus' 'De observatione ciborum' is a 6th century dietetic text,

not a cookbook with recipes;

- -- However, Anthimus mentions several preparations in some detail so

that one can reconstruct 20th century recipes from his 6th century text;

- -- The earliest manuscripts extant with the 6th century text are from

the 9th century (from St. Gallen and Bamberg);

- -- As always, there is textual variation to some extent in the early

manuscripts (e.g. "cum carnibus"/ "cum carbonibus") that makes it

difficult to decide what exactly is the "kind of preparation" meant.

 

Why did you choose the version "cum carbonibus", and not "cum carnibus"?

Seem to be very different recipes!

 

I still believe that the global picture of the short recipe statistics,

you quoted, is not inadequate ("thousands of 15th century recipes, we

have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century recipes, we have a few 13th

century recipes").

 

Thanks a lot for pointing me and others to the _near relatives_ of

cookery recipes in the dietetic texts.

 

Cheers,

Thomas

 

 

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:14:28 -0800

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>

Subject: Re: SC - Salads, anyone? OOP and not

 

Branwen wrote:

> In an attempt to eat a bit healthier, I wish to eat more salad - and force

> some down the throat of my fiance as well. We're pretty much stuck in the

> iceburg-tomato-cucumber-crouton-ranch dressing rut (although I made a nice

> salad nicoise once). Does anyone have ideas for creative, healthy salads,

> preferrably ones that don't require a ton of dressing? I'd love to try some

> period ones!

 

First, stop using Iceberg lettuce! It is just cellulose and water- no

flavor, and virtually no vitamins or other nutritive value.

Try leaf lettuce, red or green, romaine, spinach, escarole, butter

lettuce, endive, radicchio... there's lots of stuff. Also, try cutting

herbs into the greens. For instance, in the summer when the leaves are

big, I use basil as though it were a green. Is VERY yummy! Also parsley,

thyme, mint, rosemary, oregano, chervil arugula (in small quantities- it

can be very bitter), a little sage, watercress...

 

As for period salads, there's an excellent one in _Forme of Cury_ (in_Curye on Inglysch_)

 

#78- "Salat. Take persel, sawge, grene garlec,

chibolles, oynouns, leek, borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and touncressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene. Pike

hem. Pluk hem small with thyn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile;

lay on vinegar and salt, and serue it forth."

 

There are many of this ilk, but I like this because there are so many

choices! And no mention of lettuce. Maybe there's no room left in the

bowl!

 

'Lainie

 

 

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:36:44 EST

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Salads, anyone? OOP and not

 

Aldyth at aol.com writes:

<< It was from Apicius, and had endive, fresh  herbs, balsalmic vinegar,

olive oil, and sea salt.  Noemi, could you post that one since you did it? >>

 

Sure. . .

 

I'll give the recipe that I worked off of, although I'm not sure which

translation of Apicius it came from. (We'll have to rely on Mistress

Aldyth for that, since she gave the guild the "assignment" to work this

recipe out, along with some others for our last meeting.)

 

Seasoned Salad

There may likewise be a seasoned salad from lettuce, borage, mint, calamint,

parsley, wild thyme, marjoram, chevril, sow-thistle, lancet, nightshade,

fenel flower, and other aramatic herb, well washed with the water pressed

out. They need a large dish.  They ought to be sprinkled with alot of salt

and moistened with oil and a little vinegar.  When they have sat for a little

while their wild toughness demands cutting and chewing.  this is better in

winter than in summer, because it requires strong digestion which is better

in winter.

 

My version:

 

Seasoned salad

 

lettuce (whichever type your prefer)

fresh parsley, thyme and marjoram

sea salt

olive oil

balsamic vinegar

 

Wash lettuce and herbs wel, drain and pat dry.  Cut or tear lettuce into

pieces, and place into a large bowl.  Place herbs over lettuce.  Sprinkle

salt over lettuce and hebs to taste, and then pour olive and vinegar over

salad to taste.

 

When served I left the salt, oil and vinegar next to the bowl so people could

add more if they wished.

 

Notes:

I only used a few of the herbs listed because I was unable to find any of the

others. (This is not surprising for this area, and I'm glad I found what I

did.) I chose to use balsamic vinegar since it has a nice flavor and was not

too overpowering.

 

Noemi

 

 

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:43:17 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: A Harmless Salada LONG

 

<< <<  It was from Apicius, and had endive, fresh  herbs, balsalmic vinegar,

olive oil, and sea salt.  Noemi, could you post that one since you did it? >>

>>

 

I have worked with the recipe as well, here is my work on it. Let me know if

the proportions come out with strange characters and I'll repost. I'm getting

ready to go to work at the moment and don't have time to redo them now.

 

Hauviette

 

VNe Agrestes Lactucae Laedant/ A Harmless Salad of Lettuces

Fresh Greens

Original Recipe

ApiciusBook III-XVIII-

 

1 Endives (a) dress with liquamen, a little oil, wine and chopped onion

(b) In winter use endives instead of lettuce with a dressing or with honey

and strong vinegar

2 Dress lettuces with oxyporum, vinegar, and a little liquamen, to make them

more easily digestible , to prevent flatulence and so that the lettuces

cannot harm your system ;2 oz cumin, 1 oz ginger, 1 oz fresh rue,  12

scruples juicy dates, 1 oz pepper , 9 oz honey; the cumin may be Aethiopian,

Syrian, or Libyan. When it has become dry bind everythign with the honey.

when needed mix half a teaspoonful with vinegar and a little liquamen, or

take half a teaspoonful after the meal.

 

Dressing

 

Original Recipe

Apicius #111

Ne Lactucae Laedant/A harmless salad

2 ounces of ginger, 1 ounce of green rue, 1 ounce of meaty dates, 12 scruples

of ground pepper, 1 ounce of good honey, and 8 ounces of either aethiopian or

syrian cumin. Make an infusion of this in vinegar, the cumin crushed, and

strain, Of this liquor use a small spoonful mix it with stock and a little

vineagar:you may take a  small spoonful after the meal.

 

Modern Adaption

For the  Romans, salad was served as an appetizer beginning sometime under

Domitin , as Waverly Root conveys the translation:îTelle me why Lettuce,

which our Grandsires last did eate,? Is now of late become, to be the first

of meat?

The recipe for the preparation to î render the salad harmlessî is a medicinal

treatment ìwhich helps digestion and is taken to conteract inflationî . The

fresh greens I chose to use included endive, arugula,  leaf lettuce and

romaine lettuce.

Arugula was descibed as an aphrodisiac by the Roman Martial, and considering

its velvety texture and slightly bitter taste it is no wonder people fell in

love eating it . Endive is specified in the aforementioned recipe. As for

Romaine lettuce  by virtue of its alternative name ìCosî according to Waverly

Root, tells us where the Romans got it.  ìIt is still an important crop on

the Greek island of Cos, a place which gets a good deal of sun; Romaine,

accordingly, is the only lettuce able to resist heatî  Leaf lettuce was used

as it is a sweet lettuce, and is reminiscent of the loose leafed variety of

lettuces that were available to the Romans. Sliced red onion was added for

colour and flavour. The salad dressing pulls from all three preseeding

recipes and combines olive oil, vinegar, and the seasoning of the Rx to ìmake

the salad harmlessî.

1/2 bunch endive

1/2 head leaf lettuce     or any combination of these greens washed and torn

1 bunch arugula

1/2 head romaine lettuce

 

Dressing

 

The dressing recipe utilises the basic medium of oil and vinegar and then

incorporates the spicing from the Apicius recipe. I reduced the original

recipe down to a manageable quantity of 1/16 as a trial, then to 1/8 for the

quantity of a feast. The quantity was based on the unit measurement of the

ounce and converting ìscruplesî into ounces(1/16 ). In addition I measured

the quantity where possible to convert the measurement into standard teaspoon

or tablespoons wherever possible. This was done by using a weight scale then

transferring the ingredient to a spoon measure. I have found it to be very

helpful in making the redacted recipe understandable yet maintaining itís

integrity. The infusion is then refrigerated until required at which time it

is added to the typical oil and vinegar dressing base.

 

original recipe measurements     1/16        1/8    

cumin                    2oz     2 TB        1 TB

 

ginger                   1oz     1 TB       1/2 TB

 

rue                      1oz*  1 1/2 TB     3/4 TB

 

pepper                  1 oz   1 1/2 tsp    3/4 tsp

 

dates     12 scrupples(1/2oz)   2-3 dates    1-2 dates

 

honey                   9oz     2 Tblsp       1 Tblsp

 

Vinegar            1 litre**     2 cups       1 cup

 

? the rue was dry vs fresh therefore 1/2 of the end weight was used

** an infusion is described as 30g of dry ingredient to 500 ml of liquid per

The Complete Medicinal Herbal by Penelope Ody

 

Method

The Original recipe does  not explain how to combine the spices. I chose to

combine the dry ingredients in a marble mortar. I added the dates chopped and

honey last working the mass into a dry paste (this follows the translation by

Flowers and Rosenbaum of the above recipe)    I heated the white vinegar to a

boil and poured over the spices in a heat proof bowl. The infusion was

allowed to steep for 10 minutes then strained. I kept the infusion in a small

canning jar in the refrigerator until I was ready to make the salad dressing.

The Dressing

Utilizing the smallest quantity  of the infusion 2 TB  were incorporated into

the following:

1/4 C olive oil

1/8 C  red wine vinegar

1 tsp honey

brine (1/4 tsp salt in 2 TB water)

This can be adjusted to serve your purposes. The above recipe can be made at

any quantity following the proportions.

 

The ingredients were whipped together and served over fresh greens.

This recipe is quite complicated, but the results are fantastic. I was quite

pleased with the dressing and have stored the spice infusion in the

refridgerator for  a week  or so. It does require some time to follow the

steps, but Iím sure youíll be happy with the results.

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:38:56 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: SC - Three Easy Pieces, or Verjus Redux

 

The Shire of Crosston, with whom i camp, has a period pot-luck feast

at every Crown Tournament (3 per year in the West). There are always

guests, so there are around 2 dozen diners or so, and frequently

other folks show up looking for food and we feed them, as well.

Generally, there's plenty. At The West Kingdom March Crown Tourney

just passed, I made three dishes from Barbara Santich's "The Original

Mediterranean Cuisine" for the Saturday night feast. I didn't use her

"redactions" for any of them, just referred to the originals and the

translations.

 

VERJUS REDUX

I have now used the Fusion brand Napa Valley Verjus that i bought

from Whole Foods and i thought it was quite nice. I tasted a spoonful

of it before pouring some into the dish i was cooking - i'm weird, i

probably could have drunk a juice glass of it - it was tart and

fruity, but not bitter. I used it in a recipe for garbanzo beans

cooked in almond milk.

 

This was not the unpleasant white grape Fusion brand verjus that

Niccolo di Francesco wrote about. I used the Fusion red verjus, which

was a lovely purplish red color and was neither unpleasantly tart nor

at all bitter, as Niccolo says the Fusion white was. I don't have the

recommended Navarro brand to compare it with, but the Fusion red was

quite good.

 

PIECE ONE

 

Ciurons Tendres Ab Let de Melles

(from Sent Sovi)

 

<snip of chickpea recipe - see beans-msg>

 

PIECE TWO

 

Cauli Verdi con Carne

(from Libro della Cocina)

 

<snip of cabbage recipe - see vegetables-msg>

 

PIECE THREE

 

On Preparing a Salad of Several Greens

(from de Honesta Voluptate)

 

ORIGINAL: not included in Santich

TRANS: A preparation of several greens is made with lettuce, bugloss,

mint, catmint, fennel, parsley, sisymbrium, origan, chervil,

cicerbita which doctors call teraxicon, plantain [the herb], morella,

and other fragrant greens, well washed and pressed and put in a large

dish. Sprinkle them with a good deal of salt and blend with oil, then

pour vinegar over it all when it has sat a little; it should be eaten

and well chewed because wild greens are tough. This sort of salad

needs a little more oil than vinegar. It is more suitable in winter

than in summer, because it requires much digestion and this is

stronger in winter.

 

I used arugula/roquette (long narrow grey-green leaves with rounded

notches), radicchio (a tight ball of maroon and white leaves), large

leafed cress (as Santich says, " 'sisymbrium' seems to be a variety

of cress"), flat-leaf parsley, fresh basil, fresh sage, fresh

oregano, fresh thyme, fresh mint, and some of the tender green fennel

stalks. I dressed the leaves with salt and a good olive oil, and

tossed to distribute. After letting them sit a while, i sprinkled the

dish with balsamic vinegar and tossed again.

 

- ---------------

 

I picked these dishes because they were relatively quick and easy to

prepare at a busy event, yet authentic. I was actually done cooking

before the others who cooked on site. (i mention this because i'm

usually still cooking when everyone is already eating)

 

Anahita al-shazhiyya

 

 

Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:35:25 -0700

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Cold Soup/Vegetables?

 

Hey all from Anne-Marie

perhaps a nice compound salat? it's cold, and VERY colorful, especially if you

garnish with all kinds of wonderful edible flowers, and fun textures. The taste

will be VERY different from her proposed main dish, which is, at least,

perioide according my lexicon.

 

In my experience, soup, much less cold soup, no matter how tasty, is not well

recieved in general, and is a bear to serve, and half your diners wont have

bowls, etc etc etc.

 

THe recipe we use in the Madrone Culinary GUild is a huge hit every time....we

actually get little green salat back. wonders never cease! :)

all rights reserved, no publichation without permission, etc etc etc....:)

 

 

COMPOUND SALAT:

 

Salat [Forme of Curye XX III.XXVI]

Take persel, sawge, garlee, chibon [chives], oynons, leek, borage, mynt,

porrect, fenel and ton tressis [gloss], rew, rosemarye, purslayre, lave and

waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk ye small with thyn honde and mynge hem wel

with rawe oile, layor vyneg and salt, and serve it forth.

 

Compound Sallet [The English Hous-wife, 1615]: To compound an excellet Sallet,

and which indeed is usuall at great Feasts, and upon Princes Tables, take a

good quantity of blancht Almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them

grossly. Then take as many Raisins of the Sun clean washt, and the stones

pickt

out, as many Figs shred like the Almonds, as many Capers, twice so many

Olives,

and as many Currants as of all the rest, clean washt, a good handfull of the

small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage: mixe all these well together with

good store of Sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish. Then put unto

them Vineger and Oyl, and scrape more Suger over all: then take Oranges and

Lemmons, and paring away the outward pilles cut them into thinne slices. Then

with those slices cover the Sallet all over. Then over those Red leaves lay

other course of old Olives, and the slices of well pickled Cucumbers, together

with the very inward heart of Cabbage lettice cut into slices. Then adorn the

sides of the dish, and the top of the Sallet with more slices of Lemons and

Oranges, and so serve it up.

 

Our version:

0.125 c. slivered almonds

1 oz capers

2 oz currants

0.125 c. figs

1 tsp lemon juice

1.5 heads of lettuce, spinach and other greens

1/4 c. olive oil

2 oz olives

1 orange, peeled and sliced (no white part). Reserve half for garnish

1 oz sweet pickles

0.125 c. raisens

1 pinch salt

1 tsp sugar

0.5 c. balsamic vinegar

4-5 lemon slices for garnish

 

Slice, chop and/or shred all ingredients. Layer in a nice salad bowl. Make a

vinegrette dressing from the oil, vinegar, salt and sugar. Pour on Sallet,

sprinkle with lemon juice and serve, garnished with lemon and orange slices.

 

 

Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:09:08

From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>

Subject: SC - Onion Salad Recipe

 

From Redon, et al. "The Medieval Kitchen"

 

Manuscript Source: Zambrini, Francesco, ed. Libro della Cucina del secolo

XIV

 

"De la insaleggiata di cipolle" (Recipe 90)

 

"Togli cipolle; cuocile sotto la bragia, e poi le manda, e tagliale per

traverso longhette et sottili; mettili alquanto d'aceto, sale, oglio, e

spezie, e da a mangiare"

 

"Take onions; cook them in the embers, then peel them and cut them across

into longish, thin slices; add a little vinegar, salt, oil, and spices, and

serve.

 

Recipe:

 

6 sweet onions, red or white, unpeeled

olive oil

salt

pepper

vinegar

1/2 teaspoon fine spices (ginger, cinnamon, pepper, cloves, saffron)

 

Wrap the onions in tinfoil, then roast them in the embers of a fire, or in a

500-degree oven, for 1 hour.  Once cooked, unwrap and let cool, then peel

them and slice them thin.  Toss in a salad bowl with olive oil, salt,

pepper, vinegar, and fine spices. serve lukewarm."

 

This is good camp cooking; try roasting fennel along with it.

 

Vicente

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:52:52 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: OT RE: [Sca-cooks] How long...

Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I just made some "Carrot Sallad" from Dining with William Shakespeare for our

demo at the Relay for Life this evening.  They are VERY tasty, easy to make

and should be ok without refrigeration for several hours.  Recipe:

 

A Carrot Sallad

 

1 # baby carrots

3 cups water

=BD tsp salt

=BC tsp. chervil

=BD cup white wine vinegar

4 tbsp. Salad oil

=BC tsp. white pepper

1 lg. Sprig parsley

 

Scrub carrots and cut off green tops.  Bring water, salt, chervil to a boil in

a saucepan.  Add the carrots, cover the pot, and cook until the carrots are

tender but still crisp=97about 10 minutes.

 

In a deep bowl, mix together the vinegar, oil and pepper. Drain the carrots,

add them to the dressing and stir them until they are nicely coated.  Cover

the bowl and marinate the carrots in the dressing for at least an hour.

 

Wash the parsley in cold water, shake off the moisture, and snip off the

stems. Make a rosette of the leaves in the center of a dinner plate.  Arrange

the carrots around the parsley like a sunburst, and pour a little of the

dressing over the carrots

 

It's really quite tasty...I've found that even folk who don't like carrots

like this stuff.

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:20:45 EDT

From: Seton1355 at aol.com

Subject: SC - Cilantro and Pine Nuts Salad  

 

Could this have been something the early Crusaders had eaten?

 

Cilantro and Pine Nuts Salad

The famous Arab geographer al-Muqadasi, writing in the year 985 CE,

noted among the marvels of Jerusalem pine nuts called kadam, which

are unrivaled anywhere on earth.

Ingredients

     200 grams pine nuts

     Olive oil

     A bunch of fresh coriander  (cilantro)

     A bunch of fresh parsley

     Fresh lemon juice

     2-3 garlic cloves, crushed

     A little vinegar-wine I use balsamic vinegar)

     Salt

Roast the pine nuts carefully in a small pot on a low flame,

using a little oil. It is important to stir constantly.

Don't do other things in the meantime! Stir all the time and

make sure the pine nuts do not burn.

 

With a large, sharp knife chop the coriander and the

parsley, place in a bowl and add the pine nuts, which have by now cooled.

Squeeze in lemon juice, drip in a little olive oil, season

with garlic, vinegar-wine, and salt.

Taste, adjust the seasoning, and serve.

A few green onions, very thinly sliced, can be added to the

salad.

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:08:38 EDT

From: Gerekr at aol.com

Subject: Re:  SC - Protectorate Feast 2 - No recipes

 

>From: TerryD at Health.State.OK.US (Decker, Terry D.)

>I also have one other problem.  I'm short one dish -- Elizabethan,

>vegetable, preferably green, definitely not spinach.  Anyone got any ideas

>or recipes?

>Bear

 

Having had my Lorwin forever (25+ yrs), she was my first reaction...

 

Let's see, what's "vegetive", not spinach and looks like it would come

out green?  

 

To stewe hartechockes in creme - John Murrell, A Booke of cookerie, 1621

"Take the thickest bottomes of the thickest Hartechockes being very

tender boyled, and stew them in a little butter and vinegar, whole Mace

and Sugar, then take halfe a pinte of sweete Cream boyled with whole

Mace, straine it with the yolkes of two-new-laid egges, and brewe them

together with halfe a ladlefull of the best thicke butter and vinegar,

and a little Sugar, so dish up the bottomes of the Hartechockes, & lay it

with sippets of a slickt Lemon round about, then poure your sauce on the

toppe of the Hartechockes, and sticke them full of fryde tosts upright

scrape on a little Sugar and serve it to the table hot."

 

To boyle ... peascods - the same

<snip of boiled peascods recipe - see peas-msg>

 

A grand salad of watercress - Robert May, The Accomplisht cook, 1660

To boil French beans or lupins - the same

A salad of watercress and violets - the same

 

Also, she created a lettuce/chicory/endive salad from a material in a

couple of dietaries :

"All herbs should be eaten according to the time of the year and the

property of them, the hot sorts for winter, the cold for summer, and the

temperate for spring and autumn." (Among the cold herbs he placed

lettuce, white endive, succor (chicory or curly endive). For old people,

he said, it was) "expedient sometimes to boyle [lettuce] whole in

pottage, and afterwards to eat them with Sugar, Vinegar and Oyle. In this

manner Galen used it in his old age against watchfulnesse

(sleeplessness)". William Vaughan's Directions for health (1617)

 

and "Among al hearbes, none hath so good juyce as lettice.  Some men doe

suppose that it maketh abundance of bloud, albeit not very pure or

perfect : it doth set a hot appetite and eaten in the evening it

provoketh sleep.  Suckory or Cycory is like in operation to Lettice and

tempereth choler wonderfully." Thomas Elyot's The Castle of health (1610)

 

There are several other Salads, esp the two May/watercress items listed

above.

 

Well, do you want period or Elizabethan?  Looks like you might squeeze

the Murrell in, but the May looks pretty late.  Here's hoping others come

up with references a bit more in period!  

 

Chimene

 

 

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:37:08 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Period cookshop at Pennsic?

 

> I don't have time at the moment to go through lots of sources, but

> reading through the first five meals in Le Menagier I do not find any

> mention of any salad or salad like dish. My casual impression is that

> that is typical. Perhaps someone else has done a more careful

> examination of the data.

 

Menu XIX calls for 'cress and sorrel with vinegar'

Menu XXIII calls for 'cress and mint'

Menu XXIV calls for 'lettuces'

 

All of these are fish menus, so we can conjectorure that the little old

man who got married around 1393 and who lived in Paris, felt that greens

should be served with fish, not meat, and probably thought of them as a

Lenten dish.

 

A quick look in the OED suggests that at least by the 15th century it was

a known dish if not common. Of course the term 'sallat' may not have come

into the language for a dish of raw (or lightly cooked) greens much before

then.

 

1481-90 Howard Househ. Bks. (Roxb.) 398 Item, for erbes for a selad j.

d. 1533 ELYOT Cast. Helthe (1539) 41 Yonge men..shell

eate..salades of cold herbes. 1578 LYTE Dodoens 125 This herbe..is much

vsed in meates and Salades with egges. 1601 HOLLAND Pliny

II. 37 If you would make a delicate sallad of Cucumbers, boile them first,

then pill from them their rind, serue them vp with oile, vinegre,

and honey.

 

c1390 Forme of Cury (1780) 41 Salat. Take persel, sawge, garlec

[etc.]..waische hem clene..and myng hem wel with rawe oile, lay

on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth. 1550 J. COKE Eng. & Fr. Heralds

30 (1877) 64 Oyle olyve whiche was brought out of

Espayne, very good for salettes. 1597 HOOKER Eccl. Pol. V. lxxvi. 8 A

Sallet of greene herbes.

 

Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring?

 

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise

 

 

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:05:05 -0400

From: "Ron Rispoli" <rispoli at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Period cookshop at Pennsic?

 

From: Jenne Heise

>All of these are fish menus, so we can conjectorure that the little old

>man who got married around 1393 and who lived in Paris, felt that greens

>should be served with fish, not meat, and probably thought of them as a

>Lenten dish.

 

>Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring?

 

Perhaps salads were listed for a Lenten menu because the greens are more

plentiful during that time and unavailable the rest of the year.  Off hand

fall greens such as mustard and kale are best cooked.  Cabbages are best

pickled in case the next years spring greens fail.  The spring in northern

Europe isn't very long even for wild greens.

 

 

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:25:29 -0600

From: "Karen O" <kareno at lewistown.net>

Subject: SC - Salads in period & artichokes

 

>Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, writes:

> > Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring? In

addition to the references you note , Apicius (1st C-4th C AD) has recipes

for salads and dressings, so does Platina (15th C Italian) has recipes and

references and descriptions of salads and their medicinal value. In winter,

there were winter greens (chard, kale, beet tops) in spring more variation.

In every cooking manuscript or work of period that I can recall, there were

salad type recipes. <<

 

> I think salads were more common than we are giving credit.<

> Hauviette

 

   _ Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery_  Pages 15 & 16: [Karen Hess

writing] "There is no recipe for green salad in our manuscript.  For those

who think that simply dressed mixed green salads are a relitively modern

development, I give this delightful recipe from _The Forme of Cury_< 1390,

for "Salat':  Take parsely, sage, <snip>  and mix them well with raw

[olive] oil.  Lay on vinegar and salt, and serve it forth. . .Gerard in 1597

discusses the eating of raw salads under numerous headings, including raw

artichokes, usually dressed only with olive oil and salt.

Markham gives three pages to salads in 1615 and John Evely, the diarist,

devoted to the subject an entire book, _Acetaria: A Discourse of Sallets_,

1699 . . . .it seems reasonable to suppose that green salads were eaten in

the household."

 

Just coz I got it from ILL yesterday  and stumbled upon it.

 

Caointiarn

 

 

Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 01:33:09 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - salad

 

- -- In Rumpolt's menues, salad is mentioned several times and in some

variation for the "erste Gang zum Nachtmal" (first course at the evening

dinner). -- His chapter "Von allerley Kr‰uter Salat/ wei? vnd gr¸n/ wie

nachfolget" (About salad from all kinds of herbs (?)/ white and green/as

stated below) has 50 entries.

 

- -- "salat" is mentioned under the heading "kraut" in the Tegernsee

monastery's year's menu (around 1530), and "kraut" as a part of a meal

is mentioned frequently.

 

- -- According to Moriz Heyne, the use of salad in 'Germany' is first

attested in Ekkehard's "Benedictiones ad mensas", and this seems to be

an indicator, that lettuce was eaten in the monasteries. -- "lactucas"

are mentioned both in the garden plan of the monastery St. Gallen and in

the Capitulare de vilis. (But how, exactly, where they used?)

 

- -- There is also an important passage in Wolfram von Eschenbachs

'Parzival' (ca. 1210) 551.19ff.:

"do brahte ein des wirtes sun

purzeln unde latun

gebrochen in den vinaeger ..."

'Then, one of the host's sons brought

portulaca- and lettuce-salad,

prepared with vinegar ....'

(contrary to what health manuals of the time say, this text goes on and

states that lettuce is not healthy, makes no good blood, etc.)

 

Th.

 

 

Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 07:41:03 -0400

From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>

Subject: SC - Castelvetro & salads (long)

 

Just got Castelvetro's "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy" through

ILL yesterday {best $1.58 I've invested in a long time}, had to throw in

his comments about salads in spring:

 

"Salads:      And now the time has come for me to write about all the

different kinds of salads we have at this time of year.

 

It is almost impossible to describe our delight in the delicious green

salads of this joyful season.  The cooked salads we ate in the winter

seem so boring, while all this fresh greenery is a pleasure to the eye,

a treat for the palate, and above all, a really important contribution

to our health, purging us of all the unwholesome humours accumulated

during the winter months."

 

He then talks about a wild chicory salad and an excellent mixed salad,

which he describes as "the best and most wonderful of all."  He then

gives instructions as to how to properly make a salad, because he

complains that housewifes and foreign cooks don't get rid of the sand

and grit on the greens.  You wash your hands, then stirs the greens in a

bowl of water, lifting them out 3-4 times until all the sand has fallen

to the bottom.  Dry the greens with a linen cloth, put them in a bowl to

which salt has already been added, add oil and stir, then add vinegar.

He has some pretty harsh comments about the salad making abilities of

other countries . . .

 

"Never do as the Germans and other uncouth nations do - pile the badly

washed leaves, neither shaken nor dried, up in a mound like a pyramid,

then throw on a little salt, not too much oil and far too much vinegar,

without even stirring.  And all this done to produce a decorative

effect, where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the

eye.

 

You English are even worse; after washing the salad heaven knows how,

you put the vinegar in first, and enough of it that for a footbath for

Morgante, and serve it up, unstirred, with neither oil nor salt, which

you are supposed to add at the table.  By this time some of the leaves

are so saturated with vinegar that they cannot take the oil while the

rest are quite naked and fit only for chicken food.

 

So, to make a good salad the proper way, you should put the oil in first

of all, stir it into the salad, the add the vinegar and stir again.  And

if you do not enjoy this, complain to me.

 

The secret of a good salad is plenty of salt, generous oil and a little

vinegar, hence the Sacred Law of Salads:  Insalata ben salata, poco

aceto e ben oliata (Salt the salad quite a lot, then generous oil put in

the pot, and vinegar, but just a jot).

 

And whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is condemned never to

enjoy a decent salad in their life, a fate which I fear lies in store

for most inhabitants of this Kingdom."

 

John le Burguillun

 

 

Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 21:39:09 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: Re: SC - salad & Castelvetro translation

 

Eden wrote:

<< Thomas writes that the germans have many period recipes for salad,

but I must point out that per castelvetro these were hardly fit to be

called salad ;->  >>

 

Haha. Good point. Yes, since the days of Tacitus, the culinary

reputation of the Germans, seen from the south, was never really a very

good one ... But I guess, Castelvetro's chapter on German salad would

have been a bit more hymnic if he had tasted a few of the 50 RUMPOLT

salad recipes... ;-)

          *****

I think I mentioned this website with the Castelvetro text earlier:

http://www.liberliber.it/biblioteca/c/castelvetro/index.htm

 

What strikes me, are some differences between the English version quoted

and the Italian text:

 

" ... where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the

eye. YOU ENGLISH are even worse; ..."

" ... ma noi Italici abbiam pi? riguardo di piacere a monna bocca. ALTRI

fan vie peggio, ..."

 

As far as I can see, there is no mention of "You English", but only of

"others" in this Italian text (based on the Firpo edition in 1974). And

I cannot find anything that comes close to the "footbath of Morgante",

nor do I find anything for "a fate which I fear lies in store

for most inhabitants of this Kingdom" in the Italian text of the Firpo

edition; "Ë degno" is not "is condemned" but "is worth", "paperi" are

not chicken, but geese etc.

 

What is going on here? On which Castelvetro text is the translation

based? Could someone please take a look?

 

Thomas

- -- Altri fan vie peggio, che cosÏ pure ammucchiate con sale e solo aceto

in tavola le mandino, onde convien poi quivi porvi líolio, chÈ líerbe di

gi‡ abbeverate díaceto non posson pigliar líolio; nÈ rimovendole mai, la

maggior parte di quelle si rimangano pura erba, buona da dare aí paperi.

- -- You English are even worse; after washing the salad heaven knows how,

you put the vinegar in first, and enough of it that for a footbath for

Morgante, and serve it up, unstirred, with neither oil nor salt, which

you are supposed to add at the table.  By this time some of the leaves

are so saturated with vinegar that they cannot take the oil while the

rest are quite naked and fit only for chicken food.

***

- -- and whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is condemned never

to enjoy a decent salad in their life, a fate which I fear lies in store

for most inhabitants of this Kingdom.

- -- e chi contro a cosÏ giusto comandamento pecca Ë degno di non mangiar

mai buona insalata.

 

 

Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:37:24 -0600 (MDT)

From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)

Subject: SC - German Salads in  sca-cooks V1 #2560

 

Thomas,

 

Thanks for going to bat on behalf of German salads... I have webbed 3 of Rumpolts 50 in translation, though 2 of them are the ubiquitous oil and vinegar types...

 

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_salad1.htm

 

Im still working on the Gebackenes chapter translation (and tomorrow looks like a good day for much progress) and also working on a class on period pickling, A Feast based on Rumpolt (in early November) and getting a class ready for Knowne World Cooks Collegium...

 

Gwen Cat  ^^ ~

still up to her ears in Caerthe, Outlands

 

 

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 01:38:33 -0400

From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>

Subject: SC - Re: Castelvetro

 

Subject: Re: SC - Castelvetro & salads (long)

John,

I know I'm being a bit ignorant here, but can you tell me a bit about

this individual?  I really liked what he had to say about salads, and

would probably go online to see if someone can scare up a copy of the

book for me...if it's a period source!  Kiri

 

The author is Giacomo Castelvetro, and the translation I'm reading is by

Gillian Riley.  The full title is "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of

Italy. An Offering to Lucy, Countess of Bedford," and is dated 1614.

Castelvetro was born in 1546.  His support for the Reformation led to

him being smuggled to a sympathetic uncle, who led him on a tour of

France, Switzerland, and Italy. The uncle was a vegetarian and Giacomo

developed an appreciation for simple vegetable dishes.  After his uncle

died, he eventually wound up in England where he received the patronage

of Sir Walter Raleigh and then went to Edinburgh to be the Italian tutor

to James VI.  However, he finally fell on hard times and wrote and

dedicated this book to Lucy, the sister of one of his former pupils,

hoping for patronage (she was broke too and couldn't give him anything).

He died in poverty in 1616.

 

He breaks down the year into seasons, discussing the vegetables, fruits

and herbs, with simple recipes and frequent digressions {such as the

salad dissertation already noted}.  As another example, he laments the

weedy status of asparagus in London and dedicates 1-1/2 pages to

explaining how it should properly be grown and harvested {also pointing

out that the landowners in Verona had given up growing flax and wheat

because they could make 3 times as much money growing asparagus to sell

to Venice}.

 

The book is 176 pages and contains a number of color illustrations.

Riley also adds about 10 pages of glossary and notes.  It was published

in 1989 by Viking Penguin in London, ISBN # 0-670-82724X.  I got the one

I'm reading via ILL from UNC-Charlotte.  I haven't looked for a personal

copy yet, but if the price is reasonable, I intend to buy it.

 

I hope this answers your question Kiri!

 

John

 

 

Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 22:58:47 -0700

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

Subject: RE: SC - salad & Castelvetro translation

 

Thomas asked after finding a discrepancy in the castelvetro translation:

 

> What strikes me, are some differences between the English

> version quoted

> and the Italian text:

> " ... where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the

> eye. YOU ENGLISH are even worse; ..."

> " ... ma noi Italici abbiam pi? riguardo di piacere a monna

> bocca. ALTRI

> fan vie peggio, ..."

> As far as I can see, there is no mention of "You English", but only of

> "others" in this Italian text (based on the Firpo edition in

> 1974). And

> I cannot find anything that comes close to the "footbath of Morgante",

> nor do I find anything for "a fate which I fear lies in store

> for most inhabitants of this Kingdom" in the Italian text of the Firpo

> edition; "Ë degno" is not "is condemned" but "is worth", "paperi" are

> not chicken, but geese etc.

> What is going on here? On which Castelvetro text is the translation

> based? Could someone please take a look?

 

interestingly the online version ends:

"Finisce il racconto degli erbaggi e deí frutti.  Riscritto in Eltam Parco a

í quattordici di giugno 1614."  which translates as "End of the account of

the herbs and of the fruit.  Written in Eltam Park on the 14th of June 1614"

 

Whereas the Riley translation ends "The end of the account of the Fruit,

Herbs & Vegetables that are eaten in Italy.  Written out on the 28th day of

September in the village of Charlton in England MDCXIV"

 

 

I can't tell from the website which manuscript the online Italian copy is

from, but I assume it is the 1st of the 3 MSs Gilian Riley lists in her

bibliography from the Trinity College library, as relevant to her study:

"R.14.19. dated 14 June 1614

R 3.44. dated 28 June 1614, dedicated to 'Il signore Firolamo Biedo, Il

Senatore'. This copy contains many reworkings and alterations.

R.3.44a. dated 28 September 1614."

 

Ms. Riley's translation is primarily based on the MS at the British Museum,

Natural History: M.S. Banks 91. "this is the copy dedicated to Lucy,

Countess of Bedford.  Castelvetro wrote out the dedication himself, the rest

of the MS is written in an elegant French hand by a professional scribe."

 

Thomas, you'll have to post a translation of some of those rumpolt salads

before I'll agree that Castelvetro would have been "hymnic about them :->

 

ciao,

Eden

 

 

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 14:49:03 -0600 (MDT)

From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2561

 

At Edens request.. here are the 50 German Salads from Rumpolt... they still

have some bugs in them and Im hoping if Thomas has not left for his vacation

yet he can clarify some of them.

 

[These are from "Ein New Kochbuch" 1581, by Marxen Rumpolt.]

 

Gwen Catrin von Berlin

---------

 

Of all sorts of herbal Salad/

White and green/ as follows.

I.

Endive salad with oil and vinegar prepared/ and with

salt.

 

2. White endive salad cut nicely small.

 

3. White head (lettuce) salad.

 

4. White head (lettuce) salad soaked (poached) in water/ and again cooled/

prepared with vinegar/ oil and salt/ white sugar/ that is crushed/

poured over/ is also good.

 

5. Green head (lettuce) salad that is half raw and half poached/ is in both

ways good/ be it sweet or sour.

 

6. Green field salad (field greens) prepared / with pomegranate seed sprinkled/

is pretty and decorative.

 

7. Green salad/ that is small and young/ red beets cut small/

and tossed thereover/ when the salad is prepared/ and the red beets are

cooked and cooled

 

8. Of a white head (lettuce) salad/ that is cut nicely small/ one part

poached in cooked water/ and one part raw. And under the

poached put capers.

 

9. Watercress salad/ created in a garden/ or grown near a

running creek/ is not bad either.

 

<CLVIIIb>

10. Cooked onion salad/ or roasted (fried)/ make it sweet with a white

sugar/ or with small black raisins.

 

11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

 

12. White Rapunzel (Bot. Campanula Rapunculus. L.) Bellflower aka little turnip / the root poached/ and a part raw combined

with the greens/ is in both ways good to prepare.

 

13. Round Rapunzzel (Bot. Campanula Rapunculus. L.)  poached/ are also not bad to eat.

 

14. Hops salad/ that is poached.

 

15. Asparagus salad/ that is also poached/ and cut small/ or

prepared whole/ is in both ways good. You can make it with Peabroth/

with a little butter/ pepper and vinegar/ served warm to the table.

 

16. Chicory root salad/ that is peeled nicely clean/ cut the

pit from it/ poach it well/ but that you do not overcook it/ cool it/ make

it sweet or sour/ so it is in both ways good.

 

17 Chicory greens salad/ that is green/ that is poached/ make it

sweet or sour. If the greens are young. So one can serve it with vinegar/

oil and salt.

 

18. Large capers soaked and poached.

 

19. Small caper salad.

 

20. <<<Sorry, another one I don?t know.If it is a typo (and they do exist) it could be Gurken - cucumbers>>> Peel the Murcken/ and cut them broad and thin/ season them

with oil/ pepper and salt. But if they are salt-preserved/ they are also not

bad/ are better than raw/ because one can salt it with Fennel and with caraway/

that both can be kept over one year. And near the Rhine-stream one

calls it Cucummern

 

21. Take Biesen <<<???>>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare it with

oil/ vinegar and salt.

 

22. Pale salad/ that is green and young/ poach it in water/ season it

with vinegar/ oil and salt. And this salad one should not eat much of/ because it purges much.

 

23. Take hard boiled eggs/ serve them especially beside the salad/ sprinkle them with green parsley and salt/ and pour vinegar over.

 

<CLIXa>

24. Sour orange salad/ peel and cut them nicely thick/ sprinkle them with

white sugar.

 

25. Salad of pomegranate seeds/ sprinkle also with white

sugar.

 

26. Sorrell salad.

 

27. Take lemon salad/ cut it broad and thin/ and sprinkle it with

white sugar.

 

28. Nettle salad.

 

29. Red beet salad/ when they are cooked/ so cut them small/ long or

diced/ season it with oil/ vinegar and salt/ may make it  sweet or sour.

 

30. Artichoke with a pea broth/ good butter/ pepper/ salt/

and a little broth given to the table/ and crushed pepper on the side.

 

31. Artichoke cooked with beef broth/ and brought warm to the table.

 

32. Take endive stems/ serve them poached or raw/ cut nicely small.

 

33. Take a red head lettuce/ <<<or is this another word drift? Does he mean red cabbage??>>>  cut it nicely small/ and poach it a little in

warm water/ then cool it quickly/ season it with vinegar and oil/

and when it soaks a while in the vinegar/ it gets nicely red.

 

34. Of the same greens the stems cut nicely small/ seasoned with vinegar

and oil.

 

35. Take young pumpkin/ that are not large/ peel and cut them nicely

long/ remove the seeds/ poach it a little/ cool it thereafter/ and

season it with vinegar/ salt and oil.

 

36.Roman Wicken (Bot. Vicia sativa L.) (common Vetch, the seeds seem to be similar to red lentils, but may well be slightly toxic)  and poach them well in their shells/ cool them/

and season them with vinegar/ salt and oil.

 

37. Take lemon/ chop it small/ season it with nice clean sugar/ that

has been crushed/ sprinkle it with pomogranate seed/ tha are nicely red/

so it is also delicate and good.

 

38. Krausen (herb???) salad/ that is nicely green.

 

39. Take sugar (sugar beet!)/ season it and scrape it/ so they turn white/ poach then in water/ and cool/ season it with vineger/ oil and salt. You can also serve them raw/ if they are clean and well peeled or scraped.

 

40. Salad of red leaf lettuce.

 

41. Take roman beans/ poach and cool them/ prepare them with oil/

vinegar and salt.

 

42. Take borage, parsley, Pumpernellen <<< here it is again, I still don?t know what it ist>>>/ lemon balm and hyssop/

astragalus? and tarragon/ so it is a combined salad of welltasting

herbs/ with borage flowers tossed over/ it is pretty and decorative.

 

43. Take borage root/ scrape it/ and cut the core therefrom/

and dispose of it/ poach the remaining / and cool it/ season it with

oil and salt/ so it is healthful and good.

 

44.Take radish (I use the daikon type)/ and cut it small/ broad and thin/ poach it in water/ cool it / season it with oil/ vinegar and salt. You may sprinkle it

with sugar or not.

 

45. Or take a radish/ cut in small and thin/ or fine diced/

season it with vinegar/ oil and salt/ so it is good too.

 

46. You can also arrange a salad in a bowl/ green

white and red/ nicely made like a rose/ so it is decorative/ good and welltasting.

 

47. Kollis Fioris is a Spanish salad/ that one can prepare in all sorts of ways.

 

48. Take white salad/ that in Spanish <<Thomas did I remember that correctly?>> is called lettuce/ poach it in hot water/ cook it nicely clean/ and cook it with beef broth and fresh butter/ that is unmelted/ make it sweet or

not.

 

49. Take white salad/ that has been poached/ grate a white loaf and

parmesan cheese/ cut nutmeg thereunder. Take egg yolks and fresh

butter/ that is unmelted/ cut beef marrow thereunder/ and put the

salad thereunder/ and a little crushed ginger/ so it is wonderful

and filling/ make a dough with clean eggs/ work it well/ roll it

nicely thin/ as a veil/ that it is translucent/ put the filling therein/ and take each a quarter of the lettuce/ wrap it in the dough with the filling/ and make krapffen (crullers) therefrom. Take a good beef broth.and a little whole nutmeg-blossom (mace?)/ set over coals/ and let come to a simmer/ put

the crullers one after the other therein/ and let simmer gently. So makes one

Schlickrapffen of lettuce/ that are delicious to eat.

 

50.Take head (lettuce) salad/ cut it in quarters/ and poach it in water/

press it well (to remove water)/ and take a parmesan cheese/ that is well grated/ and grated bread/ mix it together/ and prepare it with egg yolks and

fresh butter/ take also a little crushed ginger thereunder/ stir it all

together/ and when you want to wrap it in dough/ so take the salad/

that you have quartered/ roll each quarter especially in

the filling/ wrap it in the dough/ cook with a pea broth and butter. You

may serve it dry/ or in the broth/ as you want to have it.

 

 

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:05:37 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2561

 

Martina Grasse wrote:

> 11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

 

Any chance this is a reference to pimpernels, which are a flower of the

primrose family and, I believe, edible? I mean, since we're already

eating hops???

 

I suspect, BTW, that the hops in the hops salad are the shoots, and not

the buds.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 03:22:28 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - hops salad

 

<< ... pimpernels, which are a flower of the primrose family and, I

believe, edible? I mean, since we're already eating hops??? >>

 

Dear friend Tacitus Adamantius,

 

in 1581, hops salad is nothing new.

 

- -- Hops salad is mentioned two generations earlier in the writings of

the medical doctor Alexander Seitz ("salat von hopffen bro?len"; ed.

86.6)

 

- -- In the herbal of Hieronymus Bock (ed. 1577) in the "Hopfen"-chapter,

the author says:

"Jm Fr¸ling lassen die Leckermeuler die jungen dolden der Hopffen zu:om

Sallat bereiten/ wie die jungen Spargen/ vnnd halten das f¸r ein gesunde

spei? der verstopfften Lebern"

(in spring, the glutonous have the young shoots/sprouts (?) of hop

prepared as a salad, comparable to the preparation of young asparagus,

and they think that this is a healthy dish for the

constipated/obstructed liver).

About the latin name of hopfen, he says: "andere nennen den Hopffen

lupulum" (others call hop lupulum).

 

- -- In the German translation of Platina 1542, chapter IV 14 is about

"hopfen salat" (hops salad), and that sheds some light on the (proper)

translation of the latin version (de conditura Lupulorum). -- I guess,

in Platina IV 14 "hop" is meant (Milham p. 224-25). Faccioli's Italian

translation has "Como condire il luppolo" (how to season hop).

 

- -- according to Victor Hehn and O. Schrader, the consumption of hop

shoots is mentioned VERY much earlier in the writings of Pliny ...

 

- -- Re: comsumption of pimpernel ("edible?"), see Platina IV 11 ...

 

BTW, "Ein Hopffen Salat" (a hops salad) is part of the "Das vierdt

Keyerlich Bancket. Der erste Gang zum Nachtmahl/ am Fasttag" (the fourth

banquet of the/for the emperor/Kaiser. The first course of an evening

meal in lent), Rumpolt's menus p. 17; another hops salad is mentioned in

a menu on p. 29.

 

Thanks Gwen Cat, for the translation!

 

Best & more on Rumpolt's salads later,

Thomas

 

 

Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:10:56 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - German Salads

 

Here are some contributions about the translation Rumpolt's salads.

 

> 11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

 

As Adamantius mentioned, this should be pimpernel.

(BTW, salad of "le cime della pimpinella" is mentioned by Castelvetro,

too)

 

 

> 20. <<<Sorry, another one I don't know.If it is a typo (and they do exist) it could be Gurken - cucumbers>>> Peel the Murcken/ and cut them

 

The word _murken_ is listed in Marzells "Verzeichnis" as an expression

for "cucumis sat."; so it seems, that it is not a typo but a rare

expression.

 

> 21. Take Biesen <<<???>>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare

 

According to Hopf #378 and Marzell, this should be white beets.

 

> 33. Take a red head lettuce/ <<<or is this another word drift? Does he mean red cabbage??>>>  

 

According to the dictionaries (Hopf, DWb) it is cabbage.

 

> 38. Krausen (herb???) salad/ that is nicely green.

 

Hm, _kraus_ is 'curly, frizzy'

 

> 48. Take white salad/ that in Spanish <<Thomas did I remember that correctly?>> is called lettuce/

 

Here, "auff Welsch" is rather "in Italian". While it is true that

"Waelsch" was used to refer to Spanish, to French and even as a common

expression for all the romanic languages and peoples, around 1600 it was

used to refer to the Italian language and to the Italians. The strange

ways of the history of words ...

 

Thanks again, Gwen Cat, for the good work!

Thomas

 

 

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 00:17:57 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - German salads & Insalata da carnovale

 

> Here are some contributions about the translation Rumpolt's salads.

 

Sorry, my syntax etc. got scrambled somehow ... ;-(

 

Here is a recipe of penitence ... and a challenge for our Italian

translators. The text is from the recipe book of a nun, Perugia, Italy,

1583-1607 (G. Casagrande, ed.: Gola e preghiera, 1988):

 

16 (7v) Insalata da carnovale

Piglia fegatelli, piei, ventricchi, piei mondi, abrusscati, e

lava e metteli a lessare con sale comme la carne e poi cava

fegatelli e piei che si cocano pi? presto, e ventricchi falli bollire

pi?, e trita facendo quadretti grandetti e vitella pure cosÏ; si

volle ova sodi e spaccarli e fare quadretti an frate lunghi i pezzi

di ova e limoni; senpre prima lava limoni con acqua, fa fietti

tondi e poi spartele per mezzo e fa pezzuoli lucghi tagliati in

guincio a quello modo che Ë dentro il forte de limoni e poi

zecchette pretrosello lavato, poi mette in piatette mettendo aceto

solo non sale e pevere.

Have fun,

Thomas

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:22:21 -0700

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

Subject: SC - Insalata da carnovale

 

This is a first pass only, because there are several words I'm unsure of but

I can't follow up right now as I have a sick ferret in my lap so I can only

use the books withn reach of the computer :->

 

"Salad for carnival

Take liver, feet, lungs, peeled feet, sear and wash and put to boil with

salt as in the meat and then turn out liver and feet that cook more quickly,

and lungs leave to boil more, and slice making great roundels? and good veal

this way; if you want them boiled eggs and split them and make roundels? and

in long the pieces of egg and lemons; always first wash lemons with water,

make round slices and then separate in half and make pieces cut strewn? in

this mode that is within the strength of the lemon and then sprinkle??

washed parsley, then put in little plates putting on it vinegar only not

salt and pepper."

 

whew! thomas you were right, this one is a challenge.  Here are the words I

have the most problem with in case anyone sans ferret wants to track down

more resources translations :->

Eden

 

quadretti - little dishes, roundlets, wreathes, or chargers per Florio

grandetti - greatened/enlarged per Florio

an frate - from "fratto" broken, bruised.. per florio

lucghi - typo for "lunghi"?

guincio - typo for "giunco" which can mean strewn?

zecchette - from "zacchera" splashed

 

 

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thanksgiving feasts

From: Kirrily Robert <skud at infotrope.net>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:51:11 -0500

 

Finnebhir wrote:

>> Now, the one gelled exception is aspic, but that does really follow the

>> rule. It isn't about gelatin, it's about sweetness. Aspic is tart. A salad

>> is tart and vinegary and sets off the meal. Right? *G*

>Actually there are two kinds of salads, according to quite a few culinary

>dictionarys. there are simple salads and compound salads. A simple salad

>would be the basic mixed greens and a compound salad f(or example) would be

>something like Waldorf or carrot/raisin salad. Most compound salads don't

>have a lettuce base, if I remember correctly. But it can indeed be jello-

>based or even apic based.

>From Cuisine Profeesionelle:

> simple salad is a salad of lettuce, as well as those made from a single

>vegetable, raw or cooked

>  compound salads are all salads made with various vegertables and garnish

>based on meat, fish, pasta, cereals, crustaceans or poultry

> they also are subjected to a more elaborate presentation

 

For an early 17th century definition of the same terms, see

http://localhost/sca/texts/english-housewife/sallets.html where it says,

in part:

 

"First then to speak of Sallets, there be some simple, some compounded,

some only to furnish out the Table, and some both for use and adornation:

your simple Sallets are Chibols pilled, washt clean, and half of the green

tops cut clean away, and so served on a fruit dish, or Chives, Scallions,

Rhaddish roots, boyled Carrets, Skirrets and Turnips, with such like served

up simply: Also, all young Lettuce, Cabbage-Lettuce, Purslane, and divers

other herbs which may be served simply without any thing but a little

Vinegar, Sallet Oyl and Sugar; Onions boyled; and stript from their rind,

and served up with Vinegar, Oyl and Pepper, is a good simple Sallet; so is

Camphire, Bean-cods, Sparagus, and Cucumbers, served in likewise with Oyl,

Venegar and Pepper, with a world of others, too tedious to nominate."

--

Lady Katherine Robillard  (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)

katherine at infotrope.net http://infotrope.net/sca/

Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere

 

 

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:57:22 EDT

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] salad dressings

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

stefan at texas.net writes:

> What period salad dressings have you found? I seem to remember oils

> or oil and vinegar being mentioned but I can't remember any others.

 

The one I'm referring to is the oil and vinegar one, from this recipe:

 

SALAT

(From Forme of Curye, English, 1390, as redacted by Brangwayna Morgan )

 

Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek, borage, myntes,

porrettes, fenel and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and

waische hem clene. Pike hem. Pluk hem small with thyn honde and myng hem wel

with rawe oil; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

 

Modern English:  Take parsley, sage, green garlic, spring onions, onions,

leek, borage, mint, young leeks, fennel and garden cress, rue, rosemary,

purslane; lave and wash them clean, pick them over.  Pluck them small with

your hand and mix them well with raw oil; lay on vinegar and salt, and serve

it forth.

 

While it appears from the recipe that the oil and vinegar were added directly

to the salat before it was served; I choose to mix the oil, vinegar, salt,

garlic, and some of the other herbs (usually the sage, as I've had people

concerned about what the "fuzzy stuff" in the salat was, and the rosemary, as

a lot of people don't care to chomp down on a pine needle...) separately and

provide it in a small cup, so people can use the amount of their choice,

including none if they so desire.  This is one of my ways of working around

the allergy thing - if there is something in the dressing that someone

doesn't want, they can still eat the greens dry if they choose.

 

Brangwayna

 

 

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:55:18 EDT

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salat

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

marilyn.traber.jsfm at statefarm.com writes:

> I don't particularly like dry salad.

 

I don't either, but I know people who choose to eat it dry even when they

have a choice of dressings.  My father among them.

 

> I also don't see using the herbs as part of a vinaigrette dressing, per se.

> It is a salat of green leaves plucked off from their stems, torn as needed

> to bite sized bits, dressed with oil and 'garnished' with vinegar and salt.

 

Oh, I understand that.  Every other herb, and I've used most of the stuff on

the list in the recipe (except for borage, rue, and purslane, all due to lack

of availability), goes in the bowl.  I've put the sage leaves into the bowl;

that's what led to people continually coming up to me to ask what the fuzzy

stuff in the salad was.  It was obvious they didn't like it in it's natural

state. Therefore, rather than omit it, I chose to add it to the oil and

vinegar instead.  Pretty much the same deal with the roasemary.

 

> Although I don't see chopping the 'herbal' ingredients into herbs suitable

> for vinaigrette dressing. I might infuse the rosemary into the vinegar or

> oil in a non-period manner [I don't like eating pine needles either!] and

> simply remove the leaves from the stems and gently toss with oil in a bowl,

> and serve the separate vinegar and salt or if it were to my table at home

> drizzle on teh vinegar and salt and toss for serving.

 

That would be another option.

 

Brangwayna

 

 

From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

To: "SCA Cook's List" <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:31:29 -0400

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Compound Salat- was A cheesy question

 

I was sending this along to my food staff for our upcoming event, and so I

thought I'd resend it here as well, since I suggested it as an alternative

to so much cheese in the 'Cheesy Question' thread.

Christianna

 

THe recipe we use in the Madrone Culinary GUild is a huge hit every time....we

actually get little green salat back. wonders never cease! :)

all rights reserved, no publichation without permission, etc etc etc....:)

Anne-Marie

 

 

COMPOUND SALAT:

 

Salat [Forme of Curye XX III.XXVI]

Take persel, sawge, garlee, chibon [chives], oynons, leek, borage, mynt,

porrect, fenel and ton tressis [gloss], rew, rosemarye, purslayre, lave and

waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk ye small with thyn honde and mynge hem wel

with rawe oile, layor vyneg and salt, and serve it forth.

 

Compound Sallet [The English Hous-wife, 1615]: To compound an excellet Sallet,

and which indeed is usuall at great Feasts, and upon Princes Tables, take a

good quantity of blancht Almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them

grossly. Then take as many Raisins of the Sun clean washt, and the stones pickt

out, as many Figs shred like the Almonds, as many Capers, twice so many Olives,

and as many Currants as of all the rest, clean washt, a good handfull of the

small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage: mixe all these well together with

good store of Sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish. Then put unto

them Vineger and Oyl, and scrape more Suger over all: then take Oranges and

Lemmons, and paring away the outward pilles cut them into thinne slices. Then

with those slices cover the Sallet all over. Then over those Red leaves lay

other course of old Olives, and the slices of well pickled Cucumbers, together

with the very inward heart of Cabbage lettice cut into slices. Then adorn the

sides of the dish, and the top of the Sallet with more slices of Lemons and

Oranges, and so serve it up.

 

Our version:

0.125 c. slivered almonds

1 oz capers

2 oz currants

0.125 c. figs

1 tsp lemon juice

1.5 heads of lettuce, spinach and other greens

1/4 c. olive oil

2 oz olives

1 orange, peeled and sliced (no white part). Reserve half for garnish

1 oz sweet pickles

0.125 c. raisens

1 pinch salt

1 tsp sugar

0.5 c. balsamic vinegar

4-5 lemon slices for garnish

 

Slice, chop and/or shred all ingredients. Layer in a nice salad bowl. Make a

vinegrette dressing from the oil, vinegar, salt and sugar. Pour on Sallet,

sprinkle with lemon juice and serve, garnished with lemon and orange slices.

 

 

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:48:55 -0500 (EST)

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

 

In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a

particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)

suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to have

it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was used

often in that time period?

 

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:41:25 -0500 (EST)

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

 

> Also sprach jenne at fiedlerfamily.net:

> >In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a

> >particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)

> >suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to have

> >it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was used

> >often in that time period?

> Offhand, I don't remember seeing it on menus, but it does appear in

> Tacuini Sanitatis.  I think it's a southern European thing (we know

> the Romans ate it, for example). I'll see if I can find it in salad

> recipes in sources like Markham.

 

Sidelight: the Bayard translation of _Le Menagier de Paris_ (_A Medieval

Home Companion_) mentions sowing lettuce in March but doesn't mention

succession planting.

 

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:39:46 -0500

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:48 PM, jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

wrote:

> In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a

> particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)

> suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to

> have it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was

> used often in that time period?

 

I did a quick search through "Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books" and

didn't find any references to lettuce.  "Curye on Inglysh" has lettuce

appearing in two recipes (see below) in one particular manuscript of

"Form of Curye", however lettuce doesn't seem to be mentioned in any of

the other manuscripts, and 2 recipes out of 205 is not a high

percentage.

 

8 Iowtes of Flessh.  Take borage, cool, langdebef, persel, betes

[/letuys], orage, auance, violet, saueray, and fenkel; and whanne

(th)ey buth sode, presse hem wel, hakke [/& hew] hem smale; cast hem in

gode broth & se(th) hem and serue hem forth.

 

78 Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, onynouns, leek,

borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,

purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale

wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger

and salt, and serue it forth.

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

http://www.medievalcookery.com/

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

 

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:04:19 -0500

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus

Adamantius wrote:

>> 78  Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, onynouns,

>> leek,

>> borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,

>> purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale

>> wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger

>> and salt, and serue it forth.

> You know, I thought there might be a reference to lettuce in the

> second recipe above, but I don't see any use of the word at all.

 

D'oh! Forgot to put in the addition that the footnote specified for

that particular manuscript (the three-year old just woke up from his

nap and distracted me).  The amended recipe reads as follows:

 

78 Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, letys, leek,

borage, myntes, prymros, violettes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis,

rew, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale

wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with good oile; lay on vyneger

and salt, and serue it forth.

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

http://www.medievalcookery.com/

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

 

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:49:35 -0500 (EST)

To: <EKCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: [EKCooksGuild] The commentary- very long

 

> first fresh herbs of spring. With Jadwiga's help, I determined what the

> early herbs available would be, and at Adamantius' suggestion used a

> commercial salad mix, mesclun, which closely approximated her findings.

> Although I feel Germans in period would have used an animal fat, such as

> lard or butter, I used olive oil to make it edible for our vegetarians, and

> dressed the greens lightly with balsamic vinegar, after they were wilted.

 

Hm... Gwen cat's translation of Rumpolt specifies mostly oil for the

salads, even the poached ones:

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_salad1.htm

 

So you probably weren't too far off.

 

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:21:14 -0400

From: Ariane H <phoenissa at netscape.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] A poem about salad

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

So, earlier this week I was leafing through one of my poetry books, and

I found this gem of an ode by Pierre de Ronsard, one of the brightest

stars of the French Renaissance (I think it was written in the 1560's).

It's called "La Salade" and is really lovely, and I thought that it

might be of some interest to this list. The general gist of it is that

Ronsard is speaking to his young friend and apprentice poet, while

they're going out into the fields to collect young greens to make a

salad, and as they're making the salad he's telling the boy about a

poet's lifestyle and responsibilities. But he also lists the

ingredients and process of putting their salad together.  It's about 150

lines, much too long to reproduce in full, but I'd like to share a few

of the choicer excerpts (with my own admittedly rather free translation

- I had to relie on footnotes and the dictionary for some of the plants'

names):

 

"Lave ta main, qu'elle soit belle et nette/ Resveille toy--apporte une

serviette;/Une salade amasson, et faison/Part a nos ans des fruicts de

la saison."

"Wash your hands, so they're nice and clean,/Wake up--bring a

napkin;/We'll gather a salad, and make/The season's bounty a part of our

years (?)." (ll.1-4)

 

"Tu t'en iras, Jamyn, d'une autre part,/Chercher songneux la boursette,

toffue,/La pasquerette a la feuille menue,/Le pimprenelle heureuse pour

le sang/Et pour la ratte, et pour le mal de flanc;/Je cueilleray,

compagne de la mousse,/La responsette a la racine douce,/Et le bouton

des nouveaux groiseliers/Qui le Printemps annoncent les premiers."

"You'll go, Jamyn, in another direction,/To look carefully for the

shepherd's purse, toffue (??),/The slim-leafed daisy,/The pimpernel

healthful for the blood/And for the spleen, and for side-aches;/I will

gather, among the moss,/The campanula (bluebell) with the sweet

roots,/And the buds of the young currant bushes/Which Spring first

announces." (ll. 12-20)

 

"La, recoursant jusqu'au coude nos bras,/Nous laverons nos herbes a main

pleine/Au cours sacre de ma belle fontaine;/La blanchirons de sel en

mainte part,/L'arrouserons de vinaigre rosart,/L'engresserons de l'huile

de Provence:/L'huile qui vient aux oliviers de France/Rompt l'estomac,

et ne vaut de tout rien."

"There, our arms plunged in up to our elbows,/We'll wash our herbs with

our own hands/In the courtyard of my sacred fountain;/We'll whiten it

with a scant amount of salt,/We'll sprinkle is with rosy vinegar,/We'll

enrich it with oil from Provence:/The oil that comes from French

olive-trees/Tears apart the stomach, and is worth nothing at all."  (ll.

24-31)

 

That's pretty much all there is about the salad itself, but I found it

interesting.  I love the little bit of humoral theory in the verse on

the properties of the pimpernel, as well as the olive oil critique. :)

And the list of ingredients is pretty intriguing - it's got me wondering

what it all means.  For example, buds of the currant bush - does anyone

know if the flower buds are actually edible, or is this just a poetic

way of describing the fruit?  And the line about slim-leafed daisies

immediately made me think of dandelion greens, but that might have just

been a random association on my part. Anyway, I hope others have found

this poem interesting and entertaining too...

 

Vittoria

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:25:08 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Serving salads

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

> From: "Harris Mark.S-rsve60" <Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com>

> In Anne-Marie's recent list of period/period-like

> food items which could be picked up from the grocery

> store, she mentioned:

> "--green salad from a salad bar or in a bag, with a

> vineagrette dressing on the side" and that made me

> wonder just how salads were served in period.

 

> The meat was often sliced at the table by the

> server, not generaly by the guest or previously by

> the kitchen. So, I'm wondering if the same applies

> to salads. Again, I can see three possiblities:

> 1) topped? tossed? in the kitchen with the dressing

> 2) topped at the table by the server

> 3) topped at the table by the guest.

>

> Do we know from feast or possibly salad descriptions

> how it was done? This may be in the salad-msg file

> in the Florilegium, but I haven't looked.

 

According to an Italian if you lived anywhere outside

of Italy Salad was prepared and dressed the wrong way.

 

On salads from Giacomo Castelvetro

Translation from "The fruit, herbs & vegetables of

Italy: an offering to Lucy Countess of Bedford.

Giacomo Castelvetro, Gillian Riley.  1989 Viking, New

York, NY.  A copy of which was provided to me by

Johnnae Ilyn Lewis last year.

[His dates are 1546-1616.- Johnnae]

 

The right way to make a good salad

Of all the salads we eat in the spring, the mixed

salad is the best and most wonderful of all.  Take

young leaves of mint, those of garden cress, basil,

lemon balm, the tips of salad burnet, tarragon, the

flowers and tenderest leaves of borage, the flowers of

swine cress, the young shoots of fennel, leaves of

rocket, of sorrel, rosemary flowers, some sweet

violets, and the tenderest leaves or the hearts of

lettuce. When these precious herbs have been picked

clean and washed in several waters, and dried a little

with a clean linen cloth, they are dressed as usual,

with oil, salt and vinegar.

It takes more than good herbs to make a good salad, for

success depends on how they are prepared. So, before

going any further, I think I should explain exactly

how to do this.

It is important to know how to wash your herbs, and

then how to season them.  Too many housewives and

foreign cooks get their greenstuff all ready to wash

and put it in a bucket of water, or some other pot,

and slosh it about a little, and then, instead of

taking it out with their hands, as they ought to do,

they tip the leaves and water out together, so that

all the sand and grit is poured out with them.

Distinctly unpleasant to chew on...

So, you must first wash your hands, then put the

leaves in a bowl of water, and stir them round and

round, then lift them out carefully.  Do this at least

three or four times, until you can see that all the

sand and rubbish has fallen to the bottom of the pot.

 

Next you must dry the salad properly and season it

correctly. Some cooks put their badly washed, barely

shaken salad into a dish with the leaves still so

drenched with water that they will not take the oil,

which they should to taste right.  So I insist that

first you must shake your salad really well and then

dry it thoroughly with a clean linen cloth so that the

oil will adhere properly.  Then put it into a bowl in

which you have previously put some salt and stir them

together, and then add the oil with a generous hand,

and stir the salad again with clean fingers or a knife

and fork, which is more seemly, so that each leaf is

properly coated with oil.

Never do as the Germans and other uncouth nations do -

pile the badly washed leaves, neither shaken nor

dried, up in a mound like a pyramid, then throw on a

little salt, not much oil and far too much vinegar,

without even stirring.  And all this done to produce a

decorative effect, where we Italians would much rather

feast the palate than the eye.  

You English are even worse, after washing the salad

heaven knows how, you put the vinegar in the dish

first, and enough of that for a footbath for Morgante,

and serve it up, unstirred with neither oil nor salt,

which you are supposed to add at table.  By this time

some of the leaves are so saturated with vinegar that

they cannot take the oil, while the rest are quite

naked and fit only for chicken food.  

So to make a good salad the proper way, you should put

the oil in first of all, stir it into the salad, then

add the vinegar and stir again.  And if you do not

enjoy this, complain to me.

The secret of a good salad is plenty of salt, generous

oil and little vinegar, hence the Sacred law of

salads:

Insalata ben salata, Poco aceta & ben oliata. : Salt

the salad quite a lot, Then generous oil put in the

pot, And vinegar but just a jot.

And whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is

condemned never to enjoy a decent salad in their life,

a fate which I fear lies in store for most of the

inhabitants of this kingdom.

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:14:01 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <douard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] (no subject)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Ja 25, 2005, at 5:23 AM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:

> Stefan wrote:

>> Does anyone else have some references to specific period salad

>> dressings? I've got a fairly large salad file in the Florilegium.

>> Perhaps it would be nice to have a companion, salad-dressings-msg file

>> if enough of such things exist.

> The several recipes i'm familiar with say to dress the greens with

> oil, vinegar, and salt (and maybe pepper). I recall it specifically

> from Form of Cury (on my website, but inaccessible util Feb 1 because

> usage has exceeded my allotted bandwidth), and ISTR it in other later

> cookbooks.

 

Is this the one?

 

Salat. XX.III. XVI. Take persel, sawge, garlec, chibolles, oynouns,

leek, borage, myntes, porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosearye,

purslarye, laue and waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk hem small wiþ þyn

honde and myng hem wel with rawe oile. lay on vynegur and salt, and

serue it forth.

[Forme of Cury]

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Edouad Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

   http://www.medievalcookery.com/

 

 

Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:07:44 -0500

From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Math time for feast Prep

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

An Excellent Boiled Salad - English Huswife book 2, p.40 (GOOD)

To make an excellent compound boil'd Sallat: take of Spinage well washt two

or three handfuls, and put it into faire water and boile it till it bee

exceeding soft and tender as pappe; then put it into a Cullander and draine

the water from it, which done, with the backside of your Chopping- knife chop

it and bruise it as small as may bee: then put it into a Pipkin with a good

lump of sweet butter and boile it over again; then take a good handfull of

Currants cleane washt and put to it, and stirre them well together, then put

to as much Vinegar as will make it reasonable tart, and then with sugar

season it according to the taste of the Master of the house, and so serve it

upon sippets.

 

10 ounces spinach

2 T butter

5/8 c currants

3 T wine vinegar

4 T sugar

1 lb loaf of white bread or more, toasted (sippets)

 

Serve on slices of toast.

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:12:22 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OoP: Crudites

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> So - to re-iterate again what i've already said before - i'm looking

> for a third a dip - one that is light (i.e., not dense in weight or

> fats) and has NO dairy, since the spinach dip will be made with

> yogurt and sour cream, and the hummos is dense in weight.

 

I was pretty surprised this weekend, when I made up the radish salad

from rumpolt, with a dressing of wine vinegar, olive oil and salt. I

couldn't stop eating the slices of daikon radish...

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] fennel and orange salad

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I don't have my books here at work (caveat out of the way), however,  

I will post the appropriate references later.

 

   The book on Italian food (Italian Cuisine: A cultural history,  

Capatti et al) indicates that sweet or fleshy fennel was actually a  

food that was starting to spread in Italy in the mid to late 16th  

century.

 

   I have the book on geography of food crops at home and as far  as  

I remember it also indicated that bulb/florence/fleshy fennel is a  

16th century crop.  Before then you have the herb type fennel which  

has much less flesh at the base and is mostly stalks with flowers/seeds.

   The salads in Scappi menus for the most part are often single  

item, not compound salads.  So you find salad of asparagus, salad of  

fennel, salad of lettuce etc.  Also there is call for a salad of sour  

oranges dressed with sugar and rosewater, think plate of sliced  

oranges with yummy stuff on.

 

   There is interestingly a book on salads (Archidopero overo  

dell'insalata) which was published just out of SCA period (1615)  

which covers salads quite comprehensively and has a lot to say about  

what you dress your salad with.

 

   Now in this book the acids with which you dress your salad vary  

dependent upon the time of year and what you are dressing.

   All salads are dressed with salt and olive oil,

   Acid choices are verjuice, sour orange juice, vinegar,

   Sweet notes may be added by adding mosto cotto.

   Now I cannot tell you what the choice is for fennel (because I  

haven't looked it up yet), however the choice for asparagus is a  

dressing consisting of sour orange juice, salt and olive oil.  I have  

tried this it is a really good combination.

 

   The dressing combination for roasted onions is vinegar, mosto  

cotto, pepper, salt and oil, also excellent.

 

   That said I expect that sour orange juice dressing is also one of  

the ones suggested for fennel.  (please note that I have not looked  

it up yet).  So a fennel and orange salad is possible in period BUT  

it is likely not fennel and chunks of sour orange as much as fennel  

served with sour orange dressing.

 

   I'll follow up later tonight when I have my references handy.

 

   Helewyse

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:01:22 -0400

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] non-political sallets

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Not to interupt the political discussion, but I'm teaching my Sallets &

Green Pottages class again this Saturday. I'm pretty sure I'm missing

some useful Salad recipes from my handout (I think I've asked for

feedback on the handout before, but it's always welcome). Yes, Stefan, I

*have* looked in the Florilegium file *grin*

 

Anyway period recipes for salads & cooked greens would be welcome.

 

BTW, here's the handout:

http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/greens.html

 

I'd especially like to hear responses to this:

 

A simple way to do this is to pick over, wash and dry well, and combine

 

     * 1 part herb leaves minced

     * 1 part parsley

     * 3 parts spring mix or mesclun

     * 2 parts spinach and/or lettuce

     * Optional: 1 part minced scallions, leeks, onions, and/or chives

 

Dress with vinegar (red or white wine vinegar, balsamic, cider, etc. but

NOT distilled), olive or nut oils, and a sprinkle of salt. You can add

garnishes of herb leaves, flowers, parsley, pomegranate seeds, and/or

lemons. A dash of sugar in your dressing is permissible.

 

Also this definition of Green pottages:

Basically, this class uses the term to describe cooked greens, and

especially cooked greens with a liquid.

Cooked greens thickened with a little milk, almond milk, eggs, cheese,

and/or broth is a standard of medieval cooking.

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:04:32 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Periodoid sallads

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Apr 25, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

> I have a simple question for my fellow cooks.

> Would you attempt to make a period-style sallet with period salad greens

> and dressing, but not exactly following one of the extant recipes?

> If so, how would you do it?

 

I'd work on the assumption that few people actually would find all

the greens specified in, say, the sallet recipe in [I think] the

Forme of Cury. I believe they must be suggestions based on a rough

list of what was around in the vicinity and season  specific to the

writing of that recipe. If you're not there and then, you're unlikely

to find all the ingredients in one place at one time. OTOH, if

Richard II's cooks weren't there and then, neither, I suspect, would

they, but I doubt they'd refrain from trying to make a salad if

confronted with the produce section at Wegman's. "That sucketh.

Freshhe owtte of purselaine. Back to ye olde drawyngge boorde."

 

So, if I'm hearing your question correctly, what would I do to

impersonate Richard II's cooks trying to make a salad, confronted

with the produce section of Wegman's? (We don't actually have

Wegman's here, but you get my drift, I'm sure.)

 

I'd include some kind of soft, baby lettuces -- Boston, or maybe

Romaine hearts. Endive, which I don't think is period, but its

relative, chicory, is. Definitely watercress, maybe some baby mustard

greens if I could find them (Asian groceries often have them). Maybe

a few dandelion greens, and perhaps some baby spinach in lieu of

mallows. The recipe in FoC seems to rather stress the alia, so

probably one or more oniony greens, say, chives or garlic or scallion

tops, or some baby leeks or ramps,  would seem to be indicated.

Copious amounts of parsley to balance them, maybe just a little fresh

dill, some mint leaves... I'd think about avoiding those herbs that

blacken easily if bruised, purely for presentation purposes, so while

a few fresh sage leaves might be nice, I'd think about omitting them

under some circumstances. Dandelion greens, if I could find them,

just because, and purslane for the texture, if I could get some.

 

One of the big differences between period and modern salads (I'm

speaking _very_ generally here) is that too often a modern salad

seems not to be very flavorful. Between the fragging iceberg lettuce,

the need to keep everything cold, and the relegation of flavorful and

aromatic herbs to the seasonings shelf, too many people think of

salad as a bland food whose flavor is enhanced by a pungent dressing.

My suspicion is that a good salad in the springtime may have been

considered very nearly a medical necessity as a tonic, the winter

diet being rather limited in comparison. So, what we're going for is

bowls of herbs some moderns might see purely as a seasoning, used as

part of the bulk of the dish. Now that's flavor.

 

As I recall, we're not working with emulsified vinaigrettes, and

contrary to modern (and even periodish, if you look at sources like

Evelyn's "Acetaria") wisdom, the oil is laid on first, then vinegar.

I suspect some of the raw greens might be a little tough to digest,

and the oil is partly there for a, shall we say, mechanical reason

(remember to cut the tougher greens in small pieces).

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:25:52 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Periodoid sallads

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Apr 25, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Devra at aol.com wrote:

> I always thought that the oil went on first so as to coat the

> greens, and prevent them from being wilted by the vinegar...

>      Devra

 

It's certainly possible, but I don't think anyone ever said exactly

why. My own preference is to do the reverse, immediately before

serving. I find it lets the vinegar cling to each leaf a little

better instead of forming a pool at the bottom of the bowl, and

softens the effect of the vinegar in the mouth.

 

You do sort of have to wonder why the practice of adding the oil

first seems to have been largely abandoned. There must be some

reason. Maybe medieval and Renaissance salads weren't tossed in bowls

prior to serving?

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:35:46 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Chicken Salad

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

BARIDA OF IBRAHIM IBN AL-MAHDI

9th century, 'Abbasid Dynasty, Baghdad

 

I served this at a Laurel vigil buffet for two vigilees simultaneously.

 

ORIGINAL

translated by David Waines in "In a Caliph's Kitchen", pp. 82-83

 

Two parts almonds and sugar and two parts vinegar and mustard mixed

together in a vessel with partially dried safflower adding colour

around the edges. Cucumber peeled, qutha and faqqas and pomegranate,

chopped up small and sprinkled around the vessel. Add a little oil.

Take a fine young chicken, cooked in vinegar, jointed and cut up in

pieces and placed over the other ingredients in one vessel. Decorate

the dish with pomegranate (seeds) and with almonds and olives chopped

up fine.

 

Comments [by David Waines]

This cold dish made from chicken was devised by Ibrahim ibn al-Mahdi.

The recipe is expressed in poetic form, not surprising from a man who

was not only a gourmand, but well known as a poet too. He describes

the dish as perfect summertime fare. The physician al-Razi observes

that such dishes of the bawarid type, when made with vinegar or with

the juice of sour fruits, serve to cool the temperament and moderate

it. "Qutha" and "faqqus", mentioned in the original recipe, are

species of cucumber.

- - - - - David Waines, In a Caliph's Kitchen, pp. 82-83

 

MY VERSION

 

9 lb. chicken parts

bottle (about 24 oz.) rice vinegar

1/2 cup ground almonds

1/3 cup sugar

1 cup white wine vinegar

1 cup prepared Dijon mustard

partially dried safflower

2 English Cucumbers, diced (no need to peel or seed)

seeds from 3 pomegranates

1/2 cup sesame oil

2 cups slivered blanched almonds

1 cup pitted purple/black olives

1 cup pitted green olives

 

1. Cook chicken in vinegar, adding a little water as necessary.

The liquid doesn't need to completely cover the chicken, as long as

the cook periodically turns pieces so all spend time submerged. I

don't remember how long this took - 1/2 hour?

2. Mix together almonds and sugar, with vinegar and mustard and

spread around serving dish, then put safflower around the edges.

3. Cut cucumber into medium sized dice. No need to peel or seed.

4. Peel pomegranates over a bowl of cold water, dropping seeds into

water. When done, remove "floaty bits" and drain seeds. Take care

because pomegranate can stain.

5. Sprinkle cucumber and 2/3 of pomegranate seeds around serving dish

on top of mustard sauce.

6. Sprinkle with a little oil.

7. Cool chicken, joint it and cut up in pieces.

8. Place chicken over the other ingredients in serving dish.

9. Decorate the dish with additional pomegranate seeds, slivered

almonds, and sliced olives.

 

NOTES:

1. I used rice vinegar to cook the chicken because it is milder than

wine vinegar and i didn't want the vinegar taste to be too strong.

2. Prepared Dijon mustard was a short cut; i realize it is not really

"period". It is unclear whether powdered mustard seed or a prepared

mustard would be used in the original.

3. I used safflower, but i think saffron would be more effective.

4. English cucumbers are the closest i could find to those Middle

Eastern cucumbers. They are so much nicer than the usual cucumbers,

much less bitter, less watery, and not "burpy" at all.

5. For the Vigil, we skinned the cooked chicken, then separated the

meat from the bones, discarding fat and connective tissues.

6. For the Vigil, we tossed the cucumber with the mustard sauce, and

took all ingredients to the site in separate zip-close bags, then

tossed chicken with mustard-tossed cucumber and 2/3 of pomegranates,

then put it on the platter and decorated it.

7. I used two colors of olives for aesthetic purposes.

 

This works well even if all the ingredients are tossed together,

because of their varied colors, although the presentation is far less

dramatic.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:33:26 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I've tried, once, to make this compound sallat from Markham, and I have

some questions:

 

The recipe:

Another compound Sallat.

To compound an excellent sallat, and which indeed is usual at great

feasts, and upon princes' tables; take a good quantity of blanched

almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them grossly; then take as

many raisins of the sun, clean washed and the stones picked out, as many

figs shred like the almonds, as many capers, twice so many olives, and

as many currants as of all the rest, clean washed, a good handful of the

small tender leaves of red sage and spinach; mix all these well together

with good store of sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish;

then put unto them vinegar and oil, and scrape more sugar over all; then

take oranges, and lemons, and, paring away the outward peels, cut them

into thin slices, then with those slices cover the sallat all over;

which done, take the fine thin leave of the red cauliflower, and with

them cover the oranges and lemons all over; then over those red leaves

lay another course of old olives, and the slices of well pickled

cucumbers, together with the very inward heart of your cabbage lettuce

cut into slices; then adorn the sides of the dish, and top of the sallat

with more slices of lemons and oranges, and so serve it up.

 

Red sage-- is that just the redder type of sage, as we know it?

Also, cabbage lettuce vs. red cauliflower?  Can I use red cabbage? Red

Kale? for the red cauliflower? Should I use bibb or similar lettuce for

the cabbage lettuce?

Are Old Olives different from the regular ones? I'm assuming I am

neither pitting nor slicing the olives. I was thinking of the olive type

called 'dry' for the old olive.

in 1611-1615, would the oranges be bitter or sweet? What's the best way

to slice these peeled citrus?

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:08:45 -0500 (EST)

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Cc: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

 

> From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

> I've tried, once, to make this compound sallat from Markham, and I  

> have some questions:

> The recipe:

> Another compound Sallat.

 

      Red sage-- is that just the redder type of sage, as we know it?

     

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/s/sages-05.html#com suggests its

the same as regular old common sage.

 

http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h287.htm says it's  

"Balvia officinal, also known as Garden Sage and Purple Topped sage.

 

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/index/Ingredients/Plants/Red_Sage says

pretty much the same thing (picture included)

 

Note sure if this is the historical red sage, but it's a start.

 

> Also, cabbage lettuce vs. red cauliflower?  Can I use red cabbage? Red

> Kale? for the red cauliflower? Should I use bibb or similar lettuce  

> for the cabbage lettuce?

 

http://www.photosnapper.com/web/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=725&;si=HARD

has a lovely picture of a red cauliflower. Since broccoli and cauliflower

are related, I'd say something that tastes like brocolli leaves. I'd

advise a taste test (most cauliflower or fresh broccoli come with some

leaves attached)

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:15:29 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

This might help.

http://culinaryhistoriansny.org/recipes/17_Century_Salads.pdf

 

It even includes photos and recipes. Oranges by the way could have

either sweet or seville/bitter by then. There's a picture showing

a citron, seville orange and a sweet orange in Besler, dating 1613.

They wouldn't have been navel oranges.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:53:15 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] philosophical salad question

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Helewyse's website has a number of menus posted from various

Italian sources.

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/yulefeast.html

salads appear as dinner fare on Dec 15th

Lettuce and borage flower salad, Salad of cooked chicory, Macaroni

salad, Cooked carrot salad, Salad of capers currants and sugar, Salad of

feet of kid.

I know that we went with Giacomo Castelvetro and Platina for the actual

salad recipes.

 

Johnnae

 

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

> I've been doing a lot of salads lately for events and things. Mostly,

> because I don't think enough people experience a medieval-type salad

> often enough, and I think it's good to show them what it's like. I

> haven't done a lot of sops or boiled greens on toast, though.

> Since it's unclear how often salads were served, should I try to limit

> how often I make salad in the SCA?

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:43:04 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Jadwiga wrote: Since it's unclear how often salads were served,  

should I try to limit how often I make salad in the SCA?

 

Depends? Now for 16th century Italian food, salads turn up just  

about every dinner in the first course, along with such other foods  

not eaten in the north such as raw fruit.  They are listed in just  

about every dinner menu made from any number of interesting things.  

In addition there is a book

 

Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa ... / da Saluatore Massonio ... In Venetia : appresso Marc'Antonio Brogiollo ..., 1627.

 

Which only talks about salads and it's free online at dioscoredes:

http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?

ref=B20397215&idioma=0

 

It talks about vinegar, oil, salt and why this is how a salad should  

be dressed, then talks about other dressing ingredients including:  

sapa, lemon and sour orange juice, pepper and garlic.  Then  

introduces each vegetable and herb that can be served in a salad, and  

how it is prepared for that salad.  It is more of a health manual  

than a cookbook so you have to wade through all the stuff plagiarized  

from worthy Latin sources to find the cooking information but is is  

there (usually in the form: and these are more healthful if roasted  

before serving cold, with a dressing of sour orange juice salt and  

olive oil).

 

Some vegetables covered:

Parsnips, ramps, beet root, cress, turnip, radishes, sprouts, fennel,  

asparagus, truffles, lettuce, endive, chicory, rocket, nasturtium,  

borage, lemon balm, beans, cauliflower, peas, squash, and a whole  

bunch of herbs.

 

So I say salad ahead, of course you'll need to start cooking 16th  

century Italian, but that's no bad thing:-)

 

Helewyse

 

 

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:19:10 -0600

From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Boiled salad and High Table dishes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> Nice! Say, can I get your recipes for the Boiled Salad?

> From my Laurel's Prize Tourney notes:

 

An Excellent Boiled Salad

Country Contentments or The English Huswife

By Gervaise Markham (1615)

 

To make an excellent compound boil'd Sallat: take of Spinage well  

washt two or three handfuls, and put it into faire water and boile it  

till it bee exceeding soft and tender as pappe; then put it into a  

Cullander and draine the water from it, which done, with the backside  

of your Chopping-knife chop it and bruise it as small as may bee:  

then put it into a Pipkin with a good lump of sweet butter and boile  

it over again; then take a good handfull of Currants cleane washt and  

put to it, and stirre them well together, then put to as much Vinegar  

as will make it reasonable tart, and then with sugar season it  

according to the taste of the Master of the house, and so serve it  

upon sippets.

 

Spinach was boiled soft and then drained. Then chopped with the back  

of a heavy chef's knife.

 

The greens were placed into one of the frying pans and a good lump of  

unsalted butter was added and stirred in.  The heat was brought up  

gradually until the juices began to lightly simmer.  When temperature  

was reached I added a good handful of golden raisins and let them  

cook until they began to release their sweet flavor.  Red wine  

vinegar was then added to taste.

 

The slowly increasing temperature was because I cooked it in a period  

earthenware skillet.

 

> Olwen

Gunthar

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:41:59 -0700

From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetables and are you all still there?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

By salad do you mean leafy greens?

 

De Honesta has lots of salads and variations. Check out Book III,  

Entry 31 (Lettuce and Rocket Salad), Book IV, Entry 2 (Plain Lettuce  

Salad and a variation which includes mint and parsley),  Book IV,  

entry 5 has a salad with many herbs (Lettuce, borage, mint, calamint,  

fennel, parsley, wild thyme, marjoram, chervil, lambs tongue,  

nightshade, fennel flowers and other "oderiferis herbis" (aromatic  

herbs).

 

There are quite a few more salads and also several cooked greens  

which you may or may not consider a salad.

 

Eduardo

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:15:09 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salats was Vegetables and are you all still

        there?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Take a look at

*Salads served in 16th century Italy, it's not just lettuce*

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/salads.html

 

This is the handout or outline for Baroness Helewyse's Pennsic 36 class,

a review of the many salads offered by Scappi in his meals and some

research on how to put the salads together in a manner appropriate for

16th century Italy. It isn't just about lettuce.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:18:33 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salad recipes was English Food

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Barbara Benson wrote:

<<< By Great salads do you mean a really, really good salad or is a Great

Salad a specific dish? I have a load of large platters - if you have

any specific recipe in mind I would love to see it. >>>

 

http://www.culinaryhistoriansny.org/files/Recipes/Recipe_17_Century_Salads.pdf

Seventeenth Century English Salads

by Cathy K. Kaufman

 

That will get you started for the great salat recipes. There ought to be SCA pictures someplace.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:22:56 +0100

From: " Ana Vald?s " <agora158 at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period finger/party foods

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I was in Damascus ten days and ate traditional food every day. Many of their

salads were definitely period, no tomatoes or potatoes or sweet corn.

Lettuce or a form of lettuce, cucumber, "nanah" (a kind of mynth), "maramia"

(another kind or related to mynth), and radish. Eaten med fingers, not oil

or vinegar on it. (Rather tasteless for me, used to Italian or Spanish oil,

salt and peppar, but :(

Ana

 

On Jan 20, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Nancy Kiel <nancy_kiel at hotmail.com>

wrote:

<< Vegetables are a challenge, since today we usually serve them raw and in period they were cooked. >>

 

They were not always cooked in period.  I've mentioned before that the

"Arte de Cortar" (Spanish carving manual, 1432) has instructions for

cutting carrots and parsnips to be served raw.  Carrot sticks are

period for noble (even royal) feasts.  Small, tender turnips.  Slices

of radish sprinked with salt to mitigate their cold, moist humor.

 

I'll leave aside the matter of salads, since we're discussing finger

foods.

 

 

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:19:14 -0500

From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Portable Lunch Foods

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Kingstaste <kingstaste at comcast.net> wrote:

<<< Your onion, cucumber and basil salad sounds good, what is the dressing on that? >>>

 

Cucumber & Onion Salad

Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa, from Massonio

(Listed as a Salad by Scappi) Translation by Louise Smithson

        In order that cucumbers more easily pass the stomach eat them with

the peel rather than without.  Cut the cucumber in half lengthwise and

make of them pieces moderately thin and dress them with oil, vinegar

and salt like other salads.  But the custom one has learned is to add

several pieces of raw onion and the leaves or sprouts of green basil.

This is not without foundation in art, perhaps it counteracts the

natural coldness of moisture of it and makes the juice less large and

less slow

 

Single Recipe, serves 12:

1 1/2 - Cucumbers (European seedless)

1 - Onion

6 T - Olive Oil

2 T - Vinegar, White Wine

1 3/4 t - Salt

16 grinds - Pepper, fresh

2 1/2 t - Basil, Finely chopped

 

        Cut cucumber in half lengthwise and then slice in 1/8 in slices. Cut

onion in half and slice on Mandolin very thin. Combine Olive Oil,

Vinegar, Salt, Pepper and Basil. Keep separate until approximately 1

hour before service. Add dressing to vegetables and mix well. Allow to

sit in cold place for between 1 and 2 hours ? no longer.

 

I see I noted in my directions the amount of time that you can allow

to marinate. The marination is important - but I think tossing it in

everything except the salt and then salting it when you open up your

Tiffin might work. The big issue is the salt drawing too much water

out of the veggies and making it watery. When it is time to eat if you

add the salt first thing and then let it sit until the end of your

meal it should be tasty. If that is too much of a pain in the tuckus

then I know that people took leftovers home after the feast and still

liked it - so sitting for several hours shouldn't really hurt it.

 

Here is another Salad:

Radish Salad

Ein New Kochbuch. Marx Rumpolt. 1581, Transcribed by Dr. Thomas

Gloning; Translated by Gwen Catrin von Berlin.

 

45. Oder nim ein Rettich/ schneidt in klein und duenn/ oder fein

Wirflicht/ mach in mit Essig/ Oel und Salz ab/ so ist es auch gut.

45. Or take a radish/ cut in small and thin/ or fine diced/ season it

with vinegar/ oil and salt/ so it is good too

       

1/2 lb Radish

1/2 C Apple Cider Vinegar

1 T Olive Oil

1/2 t Salt

 

Chop radish into small cubes. Add other ingredients. Allow to sit

sealed in refrigerator for up to several hours.

 

If you like cold or room temp beans - this might go well (you could

sub olive oil for the butter):

Herbed Beans

Ein New Kochbuch. Marx Rumpolt. 1581, Transcribed by Dr. Thomas

Gloning; Translated by Gwen Catrin von Berlin.

 

30. Nim? Bonen/ quell sie in einem Wasser/ vnd zeuch die H?eutlein

davon hinweg/ machs eyn mit Erbeszbr?eh vnd guter frischer Butter/

auch gr?enen wolschmeckenden Kr?eutern/ die klein gehackt seyn/ lasz

damit auffsieden/ vnd versaltz es nicht/ so werden sie gut vnd

wolgeschmack.

30. Take beans/ poach them in a water/ and pull the skins off make

them with a peabroth and good fresh butter/ also green welltasting

herbs/ that are chopped small/ let simmer therewith and do not

oversalt it/ so they will be good and welltasting.

       

1/2 lb - Dried Black Eyed Peas

3 C - Vegetable Broth

4 T - Butter

2 T - Fresh Parsley

1 1/2 t - Fresh Thyme

1 1/2 t - Fresh Marjoram

1 1/2 t - Fresh Tarragon

1/2 t - Salt

1/2 t - Pepper

 

Soften peas. Add softened peas to veggie broth with butter, herbs and

spices. Cook uncovered on a vigorous boil. When most of the liquid has

been absorbed, reduce heat. Takes about 45 min to an hour.

 

Depending on your camps' stance on olives, Epitrium is usually a big

hit and could be made ahead of time at home (the longer it sits the

better it gets). For those who do the starch and dairy, eating it with

bread and some fresh cheese is very period.

--

Serena da Riva

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:48:30 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] A Sallet of all Kinds of Hearbes and Cucumbers

 

Here is a period recipe that I have recently redacted.  It has been published already in my barony's newsletter.  I thought I would share it with everyone else.

 

Huette

 

A Sallet of all Kinds of Hearbes and Cucumbers

From Thomas Dawson, The good huswifes Jewell, 1587.

 

Take your hearbes and picke them very fine into faire water, and wash them all clean, and swing them in a strainer, and when you put them in a dish, mingle them with Cowcumbers or Lemmans payred and sliced, and scrape Sugar, and put in Vinegar and Oyle and hard Egges boyled and laid about the dish and upon the Sallet.

 

For the dressing:

 

1 tbsp sugar, either white or brown

6 tbsp olive oil

2 tbsp white wine vinegar

 

Mix together in a bowl and set aside.

 

For the salad:

 

1 package, mixed salad greens/lettuce

1 bunch flat-leafed parsley, stemmed

1 bunch fresh basil, stemmed

1 bunch fresh chives, chopped

1 bunch fresh tarragon, stemmed [approximately 1/2 cup]

3 tbsp fresh chervil leaves

1 medium-sized cucumber, peeled and chopped coarsely

3 hard boiled eggs, peeled and cut into wedges.

 

Wash all greens and herbs. Place into a medium sized muslin draw-string bag and spin the bag until most of the moisture has been removed. [This is an early form of a salad spinner.] Place the greens in a salad bowl and add the cucumbers. Pour on the dressing and toss to mix. Just before serving, add the hard-boiled egg wedges decoratively on top and serve it forth.

 

Notes:

 

Olive oil: I just used regular, but any kind you like on a salad would be fine. The recipe said only oil, not even olive oil, but I used my preference of olive oil. I suppose that sesame or almond oil could be okay also, but I don't think of those as salad oils. The vagueness of this recipe I find challenging and exciting. I could make it so many different ways and, as long as I use period ingredients known to that country and era, I am within the parameters of the recipe.

 

Sugar: Again, whatever you prefer. I used regular white sugar, but I thought that a light or golden brown sugar would be fine also. Elizabethans had both. I suppose that raw sugar could be used if you don't mind the added expense. All have slightly different tastes, but all are within period usage.

 

Flat-leaf parsley is also called Italian parsley.

 

Cucumber: A personal choice, whatever you have or like. I would assume that English would be closer to what Thomas Dawson used, but hot house would be fine also. Just consider the size of the cucumber and make adjustments.

 

Tarragon: with no measurements, it is a personal choice. You could leave this out and still be fine. I checked other recipes in the book and picked herbs that were used fresh.

 

Eggs: I used AA large. It is mostly for decoration. From discussions that I have read, period eggs were smaller than ours are, but then whatever you like is fine.

 

I picked this recipe because of it is so non-specific. It does not even tell you what herbs to use. To me this is a kind of a "what's fresh and what do I want to do with this?" kind of recipe. You can make it in hundreds of different ways and keep coming up with different mixes and flavors. The last time I served it, I used the Moroccan Preserved Lemon, but most people didn't like it. It is expensive to buy, so I left it out of this recipe, but YMMV. I know very few modern people who would eat fresh lemons sliced in a salad. Meyer Lemons, which are modern, and the sweet lemon was not known in Europe, although India and China knew of it. This is one of the few specifics mentioned, but it is cucumbers OR lemons. For me cucumbers won out.

 

<the end>



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