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fd-Italy-msg – 7/14/10

 

Medieval Italian food. Recipe books. Sources.

 

NOTE: See also the files: Italy-msg, pasta-msg, cookbooks-msg, ham-msg, fd-paintings-msg, tomato-hist-art.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 17:13:37 GMT

Subject: Re: SC - Italian Renaissance----any translations out there?

 

On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:32, maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com> wrote:

 

>Does anyone know of ANY translated italian renaissance cookbooks?  I

>have a few italian cookbooks with 'period' style recipes in them but no

>way to verify ingredients. One of the cookbooks I have is "The Heritage

>of Italian Cooking" by Lorenza di Medici.  The photographs in the book

>are gorgeous. The recipes.well...more than half do not even have the

>english translation of the original recipe.

 

Castelvetro, Giacomo "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy, an

Offering to Lucy, Countess of Bedford", 1614. Translated with an

Introduction by Gillian Riley, Foreword by Jane Grigson. Viking Press,

published by the Penguin Group. 27 Wrights Lane, London W8 5TZ,

England. First edition, 1989. ISBN 0-670-82724X.

   (Yes, it has more than just a discussion of fruits and veggies in

Italy, it also has a few recipes as well.)

 

Platina, Bartolomeo "De honesta voluptate". (Original published by L.

de Aguila, Venice in 1475) Translated by Elizabeth Buermann Andrews.

Published by Mallinckrodt Chemical Works in the Mallinckrodt

collection of food classics v. 5, 1967. English translation and

original Latin on opposite pages. LC Call No.: TX711 .P5 1967. Dewey

No.: 641.5945 I do not have the ISBN, but this book is available in

the Library of Congress listings, so you may be able to get it through

Inter-Library Loan.

 

Joseph Dommers Vehling also wrote a book entitled "Platina and the

rebirth of man", W. M. Hill, Chicago, 1941. LC Call No.: TX713.P6 V4,

Dewey No.: 641.5. The description in the LOC catalog is "Included in a

series of lectures by the author delivered at Cornell University,

Ithaca, New York, during the years 1933 to 1938" and MAY contain some

translations of Platina's work.

 

Duke Cariadoc's Miscelleny also contains translations of several of

Platina's recipes which, as you can tell from the sources above, were

printed in 1475.

 

There are a few other Italian works that I would LOVE to get and

perhaps translate someday. Bartolomeo Scappi's "Opera" (or Works)

written in 1596, Domenico Romoli's "La singolare dottrina di M.

Domenico Romoli sopranominato Panunto", and Cristoforo di Messisbugo's

"Banchetti compositioni di vivande, et apparecchio generale di

Christoforo di Messisbugo" among others.

 

Someone also mentioned "The Art of Renaissance Cooking", also by, I

believe, Gillian Riley. (I don't have to book with me to give the

specifics). While it does not have direct translations, it does give

some sourcing of when, where and who created the recipes that her

redactions are created from. Some very nice recipes, but without

knowing enough italian to make use of it, her biography leaves me in

the same boat as you, still searching for more. If you come up with

any more translated works PLEASE share! (Beg, plead, grovel, etc...)

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 13:38:45 -0400

Subject: Re: SC - italian food

 

Aoibheall (Lea D Wittie) wrote:

 

> does anyone know a good source of period italian recipies online?

> i'm doing a feast for an italian wedding next spring amd am trying to

> remedy my complete lack of knowledge concerning period italian.

> -Aibell inghean Dairenn

 

The thing to remember is that there has never, really, been an

"Itlaian" cuisine.  The cooking and culture has been regional (like

'Chinese' cooking) since way before the Papal states of around 13th

century. The country we now know as Italy used to be a region of

separate sovreignties, dutchies, city-states that were most often at war

with some other entity or other (kinda like today's Italy).  Even today,

the food eaten and produced in neighboring regions is quite variant from

even neighboring regions.  What region (Romagna, Tuscany, Umbria).  Even

great cities of the middle ages such as Venice, Florence, Rome had

different trade routes attendant to them and their food.  Try searching

under regional cultures/cuisisnes.

- --

In Humble Service to God and Crown;

 

fra nicol¢ difrancesco

(mka nick sasso)

AOA?,CMC

 

Barony of the South Downs

Knaves of Grain

Barrister's House

Heavy Archer

 

 

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:34:50 -0400

Subject: Re: SC - Roman cookbook

 

>linneah at erols.com wrote:

>> Greetings.  I just heard something about a cookbook published in 1475 by a

>> Roman librarian named "Sacci" (sp?).  Does anyone have information on it?

>> 

>> Linneah

>That wouldn't be Bartolomeo Scappi, would it?

>If so, he is the author of "De Honestae Voluptuae", under the name

>Platina.

>Adamantius

 

Also:

 

Il Cuoco Segreto di Papa Pio V (The Private Chef of Pope Pius V), by

Bartolomeo Scappi, Venice, 1570.  This is chock full of marvelous

illustrations, including one of an Italian field kitchen.  I'd dearly love

to get my hands on a copy of this book if anyone has one...

 

Sincgiefu

a.k.a. Cindy Renfrow

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:43:47 GMT

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Subject: SC - Ren. Italian Sources

 

I promised a while back to list some of the bibliography from Gillian

Riley's "Painters & Food: Renaissance Recipes". It's not that easy to

figure out which source she is using where and which ones are strictly

for the artwork and have no actual recipes. I'll try to extract what I

can from it.

 

Some sources we know of as the main Italian Ren. source books. These

are:

 

Platina, Bartolomeo. "De honesta voluptate"; Venice, L. De Aguila,

1475.

Messisbugo, Christoforo. "Libro Novo"; Venice, 1557.

Scappi, Bartolomeo. "Opera"; Milano, 1570.

Castelvetro, Giacomo. "The Fruits, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy";

London, 1614.

 

In addition, though it is not in her bibliography, she lists the diary

of Maria Vitorria della Verda (1555-1622), a nun in Perugia, as a

source for stories on everyday life as well as a few recipes.

 

Felici, Costanzo. "Del'Insalata e Piante che in Qualunque Modo Vengono

per Cibo Del'homo" (According to Riley, this gentleman wrote a

collection of letters evolved into a treatise on salads and the fruits

and vegetables of Italy. A precursor to Castelvetro, perhaps? She

doesn't list publication dates but he is listed as living from

1525-1585.)

 

Now if anyone finds any translations of the above, please let me know.

I have Castelvetro and Platina, but I would love to have any

translations of the rest of these if anyone comes across them.

Otherwise I'll do what I can in getting Italian/Latin pieces and

translating as best as I may with an English/Italian and a Latin

dictionary.

 

Oh, and Apicius is a good source even for Italian Ren. cooking. The

reason is that even Platina refers to him quite often, so it is more

than plausible that you might find a kitchen or party where a feast is

created around ancient roman foods. Especially when you consider the

typical Italian (especially humanist) interest in the ancients and

their culture.

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:56:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery

 

>A new Gentle in our shire, who spent 18 months in Italy, would like

>to do a period Italian feast next spring.  I would greatly appreciate

>any help you could give me on where to find recipes, etc.

 

_The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: medieval recipes for today_

author: Barbara Santich

pub. by: Chicago Review Press

1-55652-272-x

 

It has 70 recipes, with (1) the originals (2) a translation and (3) the

modern version.  

You can't get much more on-target than this.  It is a trade paperback.

 

Lady Carllein

 

 

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:09:14 -0500 (CDT)

From: Nancee Beattie <nbeattie at mail.inlink.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery

 

An excellent source for period Italian food is Platina's On Honest

Indulgence (De Honesta Voluptate). Falconwood press has published a

translated version. Alban St. Alban used to carry it, and probably still does.

 

Meredydd

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:07:24 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Cookery Myths and a "New" Book (Longish)

 

>Greetings! I've been meaning to write about some of the "new" books I

>found when a recent post "tickled" my memory from one of them.  Someone

>mentioned that Catherine de Medici brought Italian cooks to France,

>which is apparantly an "old cooks' legend" and not accurate.  Elizabeth

>David, one of the cooking "gods" has a new version of her _Italian

>Food_ which I was going to tell you all about.  (Actually, her estate

>does. She died a few years ago.) (ISBN 0-7651-9651-4)  The book

>currently appears to be on "mark down" at Borders Bookstores for $5.99!

> The book is profusely illustrated, mostly with reproductions of

>_period_ art which depict various aspects of cookery.  For the pictures

>and documentation alone, it's worth the price.

<deleted>

>Alys Katharine

 

I'll stop by Borders on my way home.

 

There is a book of recipes associated with Catherine de Medici.  It was

published in 1555 by Girolamo Rusceli, an Italian who was Catherine's

astrologer.

The book is The Secrets of the Reverand Master Alixis of Piedmont and it

has been described to me as a collection of remedies with the odd

cooking recipe thrown in.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: 7 MAY 98 15:09:15 AST

From: RMcGrath at dca.gov.au

Subject: SC - Italian Cooking

 

http://www.italcuisine.it/index.htm

discusses briefly the history of Italian cooking ... but a caveat - the

English translation isn't up yet!

 

Ciao, ho molto da fare qui.  Non puoi scrivere troppo!

 

Rakhel

 

 

Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:20:35 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: [Sca-cooks]Italian Cookery  was New member intro.

 

There are two bibliographic sources that you should

start with in Italian Cookery.

 

Westbury, Lord [David Alan]. Handlist of Italian Cookery Books.

Florence [Firenze]:, Olschki, 1963.

 

Cagle, William R. A Matter of Taste. A Bibliographical

Catalogue of International Books on Food and Drink.

Revised edition. New Castle, Delaware: Oak Knoll Press,

1999.

Do not be too quick to dismiss any Italian printed book.

Just because an edition might be published in Rome does

not mean that an earlier or later edition might not have

been the product of Venice or Bologna or Turin or Naples

or Ferrara. There are a number that cannot be identified

as to place. We have volumes that are described as "new

edition, Ferrara, 1601. Originally published [Florence?

1550?]. Moreover, the originals might have been in Latin

and then translated into Italian for subsequent publication

or even vice versa. You might want to also consult:

Claudio Benorat's Storia della Gastronomia Italiana. Milan:

Ugo Mursia, 1990. It has 9 pages of bibliography.

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

 

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [SCA-cooks] Italian Renn. Food

Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:44:35 -0500

 

>One point, Platina is based very heavily on MM, who is a Neapolitan (sp)

>isn't he? Southern Italian rather than Northern? (my memory is totally shot

>today so I could be totally off base here...) If so, is there any

>distinctive difference between the two regional cuisines?

 

Master Martino Rossini (IIRC) is from Como, which would make him Northern

Italian.

 

Neopolitan cooking does differ from that of Northern Italy, being influenced

by Moorish, Norman and Spanish cookery.

 

>There are recipes from "Libro di cucina del secolo XI" a Venetian cookbook,

>in "The Medieval Kitchen", both in original, translation and redaction form.

>Al Servizio Vostro, e del Sogno

>Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia

 

Again IIRC, this is Scappi's Opera.

 

Bear

 

 

From: Devra at aol.com

Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:32:32 EDT

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks - Florentine Food

 

Did anyone mention Scully's NEAPOLITAN FOOD(Cuisine ...) [I'm at work and

don't have the exact title).  Available from Univ MI, hardcover, $47.50.

 

Devra the Baker

 

 

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:51:10 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Florence was Suggestions anyone?

 

Take a look at: Carole Lambert's Du Manuscrit a la Table.

which was published in Montreal in 1992. It has the following

essay in it:

Grieco, Allen J. "From the Cookbook to the Table:

A Florentine Table and Italian Recipes of the Fourteenth

and Fifteenth Centuries." pages 29-38. It has a number of

footnotes that may prove helpful.

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway

 

 

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:34:17 -0500

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Italian cooking sources

 

On 9 Jan 2002, at 17:57, Mark.S Harris wrote:

> > Grieco, A.J.: From the cookbook to the table. A Florentine table and

> > Italian recipes of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In:

> > Lambert, C. (Dir.): Du manuscrit =E0 la table. Montr=E9al/ Paris 1992,

> > 29-38.

> Of course, even though these titles are in English that doesn't

> mean the contents are. But the other titles in the bibliography

> are not in English, so maybe these are.

 

I have the book in hand.  The article is in English, but -- alas! -- it

does not contain any recipes.  It is a discussion of the relationship

between dishes listed on actual historic menus and recipes found

in cookbooks of the same period.  Some recipe names are

mentioned, but it is not a useful source for someone planning a

feast.

 

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

 

 

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:26:46 -0700 (PDT)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] On the subject of Italian food.  

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Just wanted to let people know that I have been busy

making available the Italian translations I have been

doing on or off for the last year. These are all

linked from my webpage :

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/

 

There is:

Libro di cucina translation -

Updated libro translation -

An Italian Feast   -  

On the nature of cheese -

Stuffed pasta recipes -

Hare with papardelle -

Pesto like recipes -

Strawberry pie -

Rice dish -  

Recipes for Roman macaroni, roast lamb and fruit soup

-Five stuffing recipes from 16th century texts -

Sambugado -

Little morsels or Biscotti from 16th century Italy -

Menus featuring biscotti -

Other biscotti recipes -

 

As I am almost continually updating and adding new

pages I figured it was easier to send people to the

home page rather than list 12 web addresses.  

 

Helewyse (trying to get stuff organized at last).

 

 

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:44:39 -0800 (PST)

From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Mediterranean food

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

>> Clifford Wright ties part of this together in his book-- A

>> Mediterranean Feast.

 

> Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

Clifford's Wright's Website also has some essays about Italian medieval

food, particularly about Sicily. Apparently butter and lard were more

in use there than olive oil, it seems odd to me that butter in period

was cheaper, but that seemed to be the case.

 

I also found out that Clifford Wright will also take the time to write

to you, if you have a question you think he could answer. That's really

cool.

 

Gianotta

 

 

Date: Tu, 16 Dec 2004 18:31:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Italian March menus

To: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>,      Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Christiane wrote:

> There's a little more information in the book about how the kitchens  

> were supplied at Ferrara, what they used, and what they grew and  

> raised. Let me know if it's of interest to anyone, and I'll post it.

 

Kiri wrote:

Yes, I'd be very interested in this latter information, if it's not too

much trouble....

<<< 

 

Not too much trouble at all! The information isn't very extensive,  

alas, but there might be a morsel or two in it that you may find  

appetizing <g>.

 

The writer says the poor ate little fish during Lent because of  

scarcity of fresh fish and accompanying high prices; the poor stuck  

with beans, chickpeas, fruit, and vegetables.

 

Direct quotes here:

 

"Due to the difficulty of keeping food fresh, the predominant taste in  

dishes of the day was of preservatives — salt or sugar. In Lucrezia's  

kitchen, the pig was the most useful animal, prepared in various ways  

and used in he making of salami, and sausages (zambudelli) and  

prosciutto. Salted ox tongues were also appreciated for their  

practicality [here I have to break in and say, Italians ate  

pastrami?]."

 

"Fruits in syrup of sugar and spices were particularly appreciated by  

Isabella d'Este, who frequently requested them from Lucrezia's  

'Vincentio spetiale' [he was a confectioner and part of Lucrezia's  

household]. They also raised capons, calves, peacocks, and guinea fowl  

(galline da India), kid, ducks and swan, supplemented by game in  

season, and given the lagoons and waterways of the Po area, they ate a  

great variety of fish, notably eels from the Comacchio and carpioni  

provided by Isabella from Lake Garda. Then there were cheeses and pasta  

dishes."

 

The writer goes on to say something about the presentation of banquets.  

Often they were a movable feast held in different rooms in different  

seasons, with a credenza loaded with cold dishes and the family's  

display of gold and silver plate. Most of te Este plate, however, had  

pretty much disappeared by 1515, melted down or pawned to provide funds  

to fight back against Pope Julius II. The court ate off of pottery  

produced, believe it or not, by Duke Alfonso II, Lucrezia's husband (he  

apparently was quite the craftsman, also cast his own large artillery  

cannon). Hot courses of at least eight dishes each from the kitchen  

alternated with cold courses served from the credenza. At Lucrezia's  

court, everything was coordinated by Cristoforo da Mssibugo. He was  

apparently pretty famous in his own day and wrote a book called  

"Banchetti." I bet Helewyse and others on this list might know where a  

copy in English would be available! Unfortunately I don't.

 

Gianotta

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:23:37 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] libro novo by C. Messisbugo

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

<sip> At Lucrezia's court, everything was coordinated by Cristoforo da  

Messibugo. He was apparently pretty famous in his own day and wrote a  

book called "Banchetti." I bet Helewyse and others on this list might  

know where a copy in English would be available! Unfortunately I don't.

 

Gianotta

 

This is the book translated by Master Basillius of the Midrealm, he has  

it on CD.  He will be selling it at Candlemas this upcoming February.  

I have contact information for both him and his apprentice Rachao. If  

anyone is interested in a copy and aren't conveniently living in the  

midwest if you contact me off list I will pass their contact  

information on to you and you can work it out from there.

 

Helewyse

 

 

Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:31:34 -0400

From: Robin <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meats Pizziola

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Adam N Bratcher wrote:

> Hello all,  The local shire i play with is planning a picnic in the  

> park shortly and the requested main dish is to be late 16th century  

> Italy cooking.

 

Helwyse has translated some recipes from Scappi, which is late 16th c.

Italian. Look at her website:

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/

--

Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Robin Carroll-Mann *** rcmann4 at earthlink.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meats Pizziola

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Jul 5, 2005, at 11:19 PM, Adam N Bratcher wrote:

 

> Hello all,  The local shire i play with is planning a picnic in the

> park shortly and the requested main dish is to be late 16th century

> Italy cooking.  After doing a bit of searching, I found most of the

> cookbooks i need are in Italian.  Now being of the non Italian

> speakig group, i have a distinct disadvantage.  A dish i know of

> coming from that time period is a dish called Meats Pizziola.  Does

> anyone know where i might find a reciepe for this?  I would be very

> grateful for any help in this quest.

> Adam

 

If you want a modern recipe, they're all over the Web, if you do a

search for steak pizzaiola (try that spelling; it seems to be the

most consistently used). Also look for chicken pizzaiola, veal

pizzaiola, etc. Basically in its current incarnation (no pun

intended), it's a dish of sauteed cutlets or other small meat slices

lightly braised in a sauce made from plum tomatoes, wine, garlic,

parsley and oregano. There doesn't seem to be too much information

available as to why it is called pizzaiola, although the ingredients

are among those you'd probably find in any pizzeria. And in an

interesting example of form following name rather than function, some

(but by no means all) pizzaiola recipes do involve melting mozzarella

cheese on top of the finished dish.

 

I have no idea if the dish is period, unless one simply works on the

assumption that all dishes calling for tomatoes are a possibility

after 1492 CE. Depending on how important adherence to periodicity is

to you, you could either A) cook a modern dish of pizzaiola, and

present it as a modern dish, B) find a period recipe for pizzaiola in

one of the period Italian sources, some of which are available in

English (Scappi has been mentioned, and Platina also has some recipes

for little meat slices, although that source is 15th-century and

doesn't include tomatoes in any of its recipes), C) find and use

another period recipe for meat slices (or anything else) that

probably won't be recognizable as pizzaiola, or D) cook any of the

period dishes of meat slices (usually grilled, but there may be some

sauteed dishes out there), and then serve it with a tomato sauce like

the one Gerard describes in his English-language Herbal of the late

16th century as a Spanish sauce. The result would be a more or less

conjectural dish of [dish name, i.e. scaloppini, carne, whatever] in

salsa Espagnola.

 

That last one would be a bit of a stretch, but I've seen worse. If it

were me, I'd prepare one of the period meat-slice dishes from Scappi,

Platina, or another source, and consider serving the tomato sauce on

the side, or simply not bother with the sauce, or choose a known

period-and-place-specific sauce from the same source to go with the

meat, such as a green sauce made from herbs and vinegar.

 

After all, isn't a great part of the SCA experience doing the things

we wouldn't be doing in a mundane setting? We dress differently, do

different things for fun, listen to different music, etc. Why not eat

something different, too?

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: meat pizziola

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Adam, I doubt very much that your source was accurate.  Fiction writers  

rarely need to check their facts the way that cooks should.  It will  

probably be a very tasty dish, a fact that is hard to argue with. But  

it certainly isn't a period Italian one.  There are braised meats in  

sauce in many of the Italian cookbooks but the recipe rarely starts  

with browning the meat in a pan.  Roasting it and then cooking it a  

little further yes.  There is a recipe from the libro novo where thin  

slices of veal meat are pounded flat, seasoned with vinegar and salt.  

A stuffing of herbs, fennel, garlic, lard, eggs, is made, rolled up in  

the meat and then they are cooked on the spit, before being stewed with  

bitter orange.  They can also be filled with cheese. There is also a  

recipe for sausages which are cooked on the spit and then stewed with  

sugar, cinnamon and bitter orange.

 

Recipe 87A is most similar to the pizaolla. (Taken from Master  

Basillius translation of the libro novo).

 

Meat slices fried in the frying pan

 

Take the meat and make thin slices, like in the others it is named  

(recipe 98B) and pound them well with the back ofthe knife, and put  

them in a pot with salt, pepper and pounded fennel and vinegar, and if  

you shall want a little crushed garlic, (it is) nothing to leave it  

out. And leave them for a quarter-hour, and then dip them in flour and  

fry in lard, and when they are cooked put over them bitter oranges or  

royal sauce, or brown sauce or others.

 

Royal sauce for ten platters: Take a terra cotta pot of new earth (i.e.  

a new pot) and put inside it two pounds of good sugar, and flour  

glassfulss (about 28 ounces) of strong white vinegar, and twelve whole  

cloves, and a piece of good cinnamon stick cut very finely. then put it  

to the fire over the coals and make it to boil so much that should  

thicken it and skim it well, and watch that it does not get too thick,  

and a small amount of ground nutmeg shall be good.

 

To make a brown sauce for ten platters: Take a pound of seeded raisins  

and the crumb of three toasted breads, and soak in strong vinegar and  

pound everything well together. Then take a carafe (~0.979 liters) of  

good red wine and two glassfuls (~14 ounces) of good strong vinegar and  

dilute everything together and pass through the cloth filter. Then add  

a pound of honey, more or less, if in your judgement it has enough  

sweetness and sourness, an ounce of ground cinnamon, a half-ounce of  

pepper, a half-ounce of ginger, a quarter-ounce of cloves. And you  

shall put it in a pot, with a pound of seeded raisins and you shall  

make it to boil until it is thick, always stirring it, and make it to  

cook very slowly.  Then you shall place it in the small platters, in  

there place, or over fowls or roasted meats, or fried fishes, or where  

you like, and sauces of this kind can also be made with breadcrumbs.

 

Use these recipes if you would like. They are not meat pizziola, but  

then pizza wasn't pizza until much later (check  

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/pizza.html ) for examples of period  

"pizza" it basically meant flat flaky bread.

 

Helewyse

 

>>> 

Some one ask about where i heard about this Meats Pizziola dish.  I

read it in a book i read some years ago called Shogun.  I recall one of  

the characters wishing he was back home in Italy where he could eat  

Meats Pizziola and some other dish.  Here is one recipe i have found  

so far.  www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1926,152182-245204,00.html Just for  

giggles i am going to try it out on Sunday.  I'll let you all know how  

it turns out.                                                            

   Adam

<<< 

 

 

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 04:52:14 -0700 (PDT

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: How meals are served in period

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Maggie,

 

Asa student of Late Italian cuisine I offered a class at MKCC last

year regarding design of the Italian feast based on the menus available

in Scappi.  I posted notes from my class here

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/italianfeastplanning.html

 

Scappi gave wonderful detail about all his feasts allowing us to

determine how feasts were served in the Vatican at least.  Messisbugo

(Banchetti) also gives some feast menus and they too appear to follow a

similar plan, using the sideboard to serve the first ad last courses.  

If you let me know what month you are doing feast I may be able to get

some menus translated for you after Pennsic (too much to do too little

time to do it in advance of Pennsic).  The only supper type menus seem

to be those served on saints days.  

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/octobermenus.html scroll down to the

very last menu for details.

 

Helewyse

 

>>>> 

I've been curious about how meals are served in period. I"ve always

been told that it was served in courses/removes, with each eing a

miniature meal in itself.

 

Was this always done?

 

Recently I noticed a feast that was served apparently an item at a

time, not in "courses/removes" and was done really really well.

 

Is there a document somewhere that describes a _simple_ meal? (I tend

to doubt that because why would anyone write about a meal that wasn't

unusual in some sense?)

 

I'm trying to plan a meal that the event steward has asked be themed

in late period Italian, so that will play a part in it too. (I've

been reading "The Star Dispose" and "The Stars Compel" and getting

lots of inspiration from their interpretations of Apicius).

 

Maggie MacD.

<<< 

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:43:04 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Jadwiga wrote: Since it's unclear how often salads were served,  

should I try to limit how often I make salad in the SCA?

 

Depends? Now for 16th century Italian food, salads turn up just  

about every dinner in the first course, along with such other foods  

not eaten in the north such as raw fruit.  They are listed in just  

about every dinner menu made from any number of interesting things.  

In addition there is a book

 

Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa ... / da Saluatore Massonio ... In Venetia : appresso Marc'Antonio Brogiollo ..., 1627.

 

Which only talks about salads and it's free online at dioscoredes:

http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?

ref=B20397215&idioma=0

 

It talks about vinegar, oil, salt and why this is how a salad should  

be dressed, then talks about other dressing ingredients including:  

sapa, lemon and sour orange juice, pepper and garlic.  Then  

introduces each vegetable and herb that can be served in a salad, and  

how it is prepared for that salad.  It is more of a health manual  

than a cookbook so you have to wade through all the stuff plagiarized  

from worthy Latin sources to find the cooking information but is is  

there (usually in the form: and these are more healthful if roasted  

before serving cold, with a dressing of sour orange juice salt and  

olive oil).

 

Some vegetables covered:

Parsnips, ramps, beet root, cress, turnip, radishes, sprouts, fennel,  

asparagus, truffles, lettuce, endive, chicory, rocket, nasturtium,  

borage, lemon balm, beans, cauliflower, peas, squash, and a whole  

bunch of herbs.

 

So I say salad ahead, of course you'll need to start cooking 16th  

century Italian, but that's no bad thing:-)

 

Helewyse

 

 

Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:24:04 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] I ricettari di Federico II was new medieval cookbook

Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:50:59 -0500

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,

 

Here is part of the rundown on I ricettari di Federico II!

The review in PPC 81 from 2006 notes:

An important edition of the Liber de coquina in all its guises

from a core of southern Italian recipes to various regional overlays and

reworkings.

A long introduction discusses the state of Scilian cookery in the reign of

the Hohenstaufen Emperor Frederick II and the several manuscripts are

serially collated so that the reader can compare and contrast."

 

OldCook.com gives a fairly good summary of the thesis that the

book is presenting. http://www.oldcook.com/liber_de_coquina.htm

Google will translate if need be.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:50:00 -0400

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] good herbs

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

otsisto wrote:

> When a translation says "good herbs" what is the standard generic  

> list of herbs added?

 

I see from your subsequent post that this is an Italian recipe.  There's

a classic trio of herbs in Spanish cooking that I have also seen in

Italian recipes: parsley, mint, and marjoram.

 

Brighid ni Chiarain

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:32:29 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The 1300's ought to be the mid 14th century, right?

 

There are some 14th century Italian manuscripts that have been  

published.

 

Take a look at Mistress Helewyse's Italian cookery pages at

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/

 

There's a list of what's available in terms of manuscripts and books

that she has found:

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/italianbibliography.html

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/Italianfoodmanuscripts.html

 

 

Libri de ricette, testi sopra lo scalco, il trinciante e i vini dal XIV

al XIX secolo.

contains the anonymous Venetian cookbook (Anonimo Venetiano) and the

anonymous Tuscan (Anonimo Toscano).  Both these recipe collections have

been transcribed and are available on the web.

The transcription of the Anonimo Toscano is available at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/an-tosc.htm

<http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/an-tosc.htm>;

There is no translation of this.

The transcription of the Anonimo Venetiano is available at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/frati.htm

<http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/frati.htm>;

The translation of this is available at:

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html

with an updated translation slowly being webbed at:

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libroenglish

 

Those might work for you.

 

Johnnae

 

Anplica Fiore wrote:

> Here's something for you all to ruminate over if we need something to

> talk about.  >grin<  For Twelth Night this year, we're encouraging

> everyone in our group to bring a dish for the pot luck that is

> period-correct (or even close) for their persona.  I hail from

> 1300-ish Central Italy.  Any ideas?  I've seen a couple Italian

> cookbooks online from the 14th-15th Century, but not earlier.

> An

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:07:24 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Well, it's late 1300s, but it's Italian:

http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/LibroDellaCocina.html

 

I host a cookbook on my website translated by my friend, Vittoria

Aureli. It's a Tuscan cookbook, variously known as Anonimo Tuscano,

and Libro della Cocina.

 

The original is not on my website, but there's a link to the original

Italian on Thomas Gloning's website, so if you down load both you can

compare them. His website has moved a few times in the past year, so

if the link doesn't take you to his site, do a search for his name to

find his current URL.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:56:43 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The Anonimo Venetiano referenced in an earlier message was originally

written somewhere between 1300 and 1350.  It was edited from a 15th Century

manuscript by Ludovico Frati, combined with the Anonimo Toscano (late 14th

or early 15th Century) and published as Libro de cucina secolo XIV in 1899.

Other than a dietary text and a collection of sauce recipes, both by

Magninus Mediolanensis, the Anonimo Venetiano is as close as you will likely

get to what you want.

 

To repeat the urls, transcript of the Frati text:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/frati.htm

 

Modern translation:

http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html

 

Bear

 

----- Original Message -----

 

Looks like there are some good dishes in these.  Thank you!  I was

hoping for something closer to 1300, but I know documentation can be

tough the earlier you go.  I'm thinking of a roasted pork with the

pepper sauce.  Looks very yummy.

 

An

 

 

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:31:49 +0200 (CEST)

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> Looks like there are some good dishes in these.

> Thank you!  I was hoping for something closer to

> 1300, but I know documentation can be tough the

> earlier you go.  I'm thinking of a roasted pork with

> the pepper sauce.  Looks very yummy.

 

You may want to look at the LIber de Coquina then. The

Latin text was composed sometimes around 1300 (experts

believe) from two separate vernacular texts, one of

which is placed in Southern Italy. Available in print,

translation by Robert Maier, at a surprisingly

reasonable price (ISBN 3-937446-08-7). The translation

is into German, but he includes the Middle Latin text

so you should be able to figure it out even if you

don't read German.

 

IIRC there is also an Italian translation or edition

of this book out there, but I haven't been able to

track it down yet.

 

Giano

 

 

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:33:39 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

You might want to search for further information on the "brigata  

spendereccia", a bunch of 12 young men of Siena, Italy, who were  

famous in their time (second half of the 13th century) for having  

spent lots of money on good food and other pleasant things. They are  

mentioned later on by Dante and others. I have no idea, however, if  

there is information on what exactly they were eating and how it was  

prepared.

 

Some of the authors mentioning the brigata spendereccia are quoted in  

this article of the "Tesoro della Lingua Italiana delle  

origini" (Tesoro della Lingua Italiana delle origini. Il primo  

dizionario storico

dell'italiano antico che nasce direttamente in rete:

http://tlio.ovi.cnr.it/):

 

http://tlio.ovi.cnr.it/voci/006678.htm

 

The libro de coquina and its companion text are online at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/mul2-lib.htm

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/mul1-tra.htm

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:59:21 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Searching for Period Italian Leek Soup recipe

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Consider this:

 

"Incipit registrum coquine in quadragesima, et primo de porro.

Sic fac ministrum de porro. Recipe porrum album, et lava eum bene, et  

fac eum modicum bulire; et tunc trita eum cum cultello, et tempera eum cum

lacte amigdalarum, et mitte intus oleum olive, et panem grattatum,

cum zapharano. Et erit bonum pro canonicis et vicariis ecclesiasticis."

(Giovanni Bockenheym, La cucina di Papa Martino V, 1995).

 

Johannes Bockenheym/Giovanni Bockenheym served as a cook to pope  

Martin V. His "registrum coquine" is written in Latin and includes  

both aspects of Italian and international cuisine of 15th century Rome.

 

I am not sure if ministrum/minestra is a soup or rather something  

like a thick broth or something else.

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:18:24 -0700

From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thank you - re: Late Italian feasts

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Perhaps a bit esoteric but you might also take a look at

Westbury, Lord, Handlist of Italian Cookery Books, Florence: Leo S.

Olschki Editore, 1963

Excellent bibliography of Italian Cookbooks.

I am sure it is available on interlibrary loan.

 

David

 

 

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:35:20 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thank you - re: Late Italian feasts

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Actually Italian Cuisine by Alberto Capatti, Massimo Montanari, and Aine

O'Healy is more up to date if one wants a history of the cuisine.

Westbury these days is for the specialist bibliographer. It's not that

easy to find anymore.

 

I'd recommend Cagle before Westbury myself. I own both. I use Cagle more often.

And for that matter Gillian Riley's The Oxford Companion to Italian Food isn't bad in terms of what it lists.

 

Johnnae

 

David Walddon wrote:

> Perhaps a bit esoteric but you might also take a look at

> Westbury, Lord, Handlist of Italian Cookery Books, Florence: Leo S.

> Olschki Editore, 1963

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:00:26 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] DaVinci and Martino was Happy about Scappi

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I am afraid that DaVinci's Kitchen didn't meet my standards.

A bibliography was promised on a web site. Then they decided

not to publish the bibliography at all.

 

I actually corresponded with the author about some of his sources

and where he got certain facts. The upshot was that he couldn't remember

what the sources were. I mean really!

 

One of the most hilarious things that I came across in the book was

this quote:

 

"The chronicler Claudio Benporat, writing about 1500, describes one

of the more elaborate banquets for the pope" on page 103.

 

I was really amused by this because I have corresponded with Claudio

Benporat and as far as I know he is alive and well and living in Bologna.

He's a very prominent Italian food historian in fact.

Even if he has died, I doubt that he transported himself back to 1500.

Yet here we have him credited for a banquet in 1500?!?

 

This is like they say really funny or really sad.

And in any case I wouldn't trust this book at all.

 

-------------

 

The University of California Press published  The Art of Cooking.

It's by Parzen and is good English version of the 15th c. Martino manuscript.

I will warn you that the "fifty modernized recipes by acclaimed Italian

chef Stefania Barzini."

do contain potatoes, cherry tomatoes, red pepper, etc.

I mean here when they say modernized, it really means modernized!

 

For the money I still think people ought to buy Italian Cuisine: A Cultural History by Capatti and Montanari. It's by Columbia University Press which also

published Pasta by Silvano Serventi and Francoise Sabban. Both of those are excellent books and good food histories.

 

Johnnae (playing librarian)

 

Maria Buchanan wrote:

<<< Hey all.  What's everyone's view on the book Art of Cooking: The First Modern Cookery Book?  I bought it recently and haven't gotten it yet, but I'm waiting a little impatiently.  I also recently bought a book called DaVinci's Kitchen, which is really good, and one called The Renaissance of Italian cooking, which I'm also waiting for.

I'm really enjoying DaVinci's Kitchen.  I'm hoping the other two are good.  

 

Maria >>>

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:35:01 -0600

From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] DaVinci and Martino was Happy about Scappi

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The statement can be taken that Claudio Benporat wrote about banquets in the

1500s for the pope and not that he was from the 1500s. Though I do see the

title of "chronicler" does seem to lean the statement toward Mr. Benporat

being of the time period.

 

De

 

-----Original Message-----

"The chronicler Claudio Benporat, writing about 1500, describes one

of the more elaborate banquets for the pope" on page 103.

 

 

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:09:58 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forthcoming Books

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

New Books that people might like

 

Johnnae (playing librarian)

 

 

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/browse.cfm/CatID/797/O/P/n/25

 

Invito alla mensa del mercante del Trecento/ An Invitation to the

   Table of a Merchant of the Trecento: Usi, arnesi e ricette della

   cucina medievale / Customs, Utensils and Recipes in the Medieval

   Kitchen

 

edited by Rosanna Caterina Proto Pisani, translated by Josephine

      Rogers Mariotti

 

This is the cookbook of the Museo di Palazzo Davanzati .... The cooking

culture of Medieval Italy is realized in color reproductions of works by Lorenzetti, Buoninsegna, Cennini, and many others. Kitchen utensils are described and illustrated, and some original, hand-written recipes are faithfully reproduced, deciphered, and translated into English: Porrata Bianca

(White Leek Porridge), Pollastri Affinocchiati (Baby Hens with Fennel),

Torta di Gamberi (Crayfish Tart) and Fichi Ripieni (Stuffed Figs). /48p,

col illus. (Edizioni Polistampa 2009) /Not yet published - advance

orders taken. Price US $9.00

 

----

 

The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy (1614) by Giacomo Castelvetro,

edited and translated by Gillian Riley

 

This is a new edition of a classic of early 17th-century food writing.

The book was written by the Italian refugee, educator, and humanist

Giacomo Castelvetro, who had been saved from the clutches of the

Inquisition in Venice by the English ambassador, Sir Dudley Carleton, in

1611. Not yet published - advance orders taken. Price US $24.00

 

<snip>

 

 

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:16:18 -0400

From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] New Medieval Italian cookbook?

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Invito alla mensa del mercante del Trecento/ An Invitation to the Table

of a Merchant of the Trecento: Usi, arnesi e ricette della cucina

medievale / Customs, Utensils and Recipes in the Medieval Kitchen

edited by Rosanna Caterina Proto Pisani, translated by Josephine Rogers

Mariotti

 

This is the cookbook of the Museo di Palazzo Davanzati and comes from

the material produced in the period 1980-1990 by Maria Fossi Todorow in

collaboration with Mina Bacci, Chiara Baldasseroni, Maria Paola Masini,

Maria Luisa Selvi and Cristina Valenti. The cooking culture of Medieval

Italy is realized in color reproductions of works by Lorenzetti,

Buoninsegna, Cennini, and many others. Kitchen utensils are described

and illustrated, and some original, hand-written recipes are faithfully

reproduced, deciphered, and translated into English: Porrata Bianca

(White Leek Porridge), Pollastri Affinocchiati (Baby Hens with Fennel),

Torta di Gamberi (Crayfish Tart) and Fichi Ripieni (Stuffed Figs). 48p,

col illus. (Edizioni Polistampa 2009)

 

ISBN-13: 978-88-596-0610-9

ISBN-10: 88-596-0610-1

Paperback. Not yet published - advance orders taken. Price US $15.00

 

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/69910//Location/DBBC

 

 

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:22:05 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another New Art in Food Book

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Here's another forthcoming excuse to spend money too.

But think of them as Christmas/holiday presents...

 

Johnnae

 

Tastes and Temptations: Food and Art in Renaissance Italy by John Varriano

University Of California Press, to be published  Nov  2009

California Studies in /Food/ and Culture #27:

*ISBN-10: *

0520259041

*ISBN-13: *

9780520259041

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/11332.php

 

AND there's also

Zanini De Vita, Oretta

Encyclopedia of Pasta <http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/11106.php>;

California Studies in Food and Culture, 26

<http://www.ucpress.edu/books/series/csfc.php>;

$29.95 hardcover; 9780520255227 which is due in October

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/11106.php

 

 

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:33:50 -0700

From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] New Castelvetro

 

Does anyone know if there is new information in the new edition of the

below?

 

The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy (1614) by Giacomo Castelvetro,

edited and translated by Gillian Riley

 

This is a new edition of a classic of early 17th-century food writing.

The book was written by the Italian refugee, educator, and humanist

Giacomo Castelvetro, who had been saved from the clutches of the

Inquisition in Venice by the English ambassador, Sir Dudley Carleton, in

1611. Not yet published - advance orders taken. Price US $24.00

 

Eduardo

 

 

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:31:06 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New Castelvetro

 

The full write up is at Prospect Books UK

http://www.kal69.dial.pipex.com/shop/pages/isbn644.htm

 

"This is a new edition of a classic of early 17th-century food writing.

The book was written by the Italian refugee, educator and humanist

Giacomo Castelvetro who had been saved from the clutches of the

Inquisition in Venice by the English ambassador, Sir Dudley Carleton in

1611. .... Gillian Riley's translation of this hitherto unpublished

document has been recognised as being fluent, entertaining and accurate

from its first appearance in 1989."

 

This edition is printed in two colours, has a graceful typography (using

the Galliard typeface) and generous layout, and is equipped with a

knowledgeable and informative introduction by the translator.

 

We'll have to get a copy I guess to see if it varies from the 1989 one.

 

Johnnae

 

David Walddon wrote:

<<< Does anyone know if there is new information in the new edition of the

below?

The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy (1614)by Giacomo Castelvetro,

edited and translated by Gillian Riley

Eduardo >>>

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:50:24 -0500

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wanted: Italian cookbook that hasn't been

        translated

 

There are some 16th c. Italian cookbooks on Fons Grewe.  I don't know

if they've been translated or not.

http://www.bib.ub.edu/fileadmin/imatges/llibres/grewe1.htm

 

Brighid ni Chiarain

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:30:03 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wanted: Italian cookbook that hasn't been

        translated

 

On Jan 11, 2010, at 3:53 PM, David Friedman wrote:

<<< In addition to the untranslated works that Johnnae pointed out you  

may also want to try the recipe section from Pisanelli, Baldasare  

"Della natura de cibi" available here online

http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533107074&;idioma=0

>>> 

 

I have a copy of the Manoscritto Lucano. My copy came from Switzerland

and was purchased following a search through ABE Books.

 

Manoscritto Lucano: Ein Unveroffentlichtes Kochbuch Aus Suditalien Vom  

Beginn Des 16. Jahrhunderts

Author: Michael Suthold

Language: German

Format: Book (Illustrated), 331 pages

Publication Date: January 1994

Publisher: Unknown

ISBN-10: 2600000372

ISBN-13: 9782600000376

 

It's running about 70.00 plus and up now. I paid $61.00.

You ought to be able to interlibrary loan a copy of it.

 

-------

The Della natura de cibi is described here:

http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/seagrams/cookery/sea18.html

 

"This sixteenth century work is among the earliest of the cookery and  

gastronomy books in the Seagram Library.

 

Baldassar Pisanelli practised medicine in Bologna and became famous as  

result of the publication of this book. In it he describes the natural  

history, the usages, the qualities of fruits, liqueurs, meats, game,  

fish, milk, cheese, etc., and under what conditions the food and  

drinks should be used.

 

On each page two foods are described, with sub-headings in italics in  

the margin, and the natural history of these on the opposite page.  

Shown here are descriptions of lvpoli and carrots."

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:38:21 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Another Italian Digital Library

 

Due to Duke C's questions about Italian works, I was doing some  

browsing and came across another online digital archive.

 

http://www.academiabarilla.com/academia/gastronomic-library/ext/digital-book/year.aspx

 

The World of Academia Barilla

 

There's 76 items here including

 

Libreto de lo excellentissimo physico maistro Michele Savonarola: de  

tutte le cose che se manzano comunamente [?]

 

Author: SAVONAROLA Michele (1384-1468)

Publisher: Bernardino Benalio Bergomense

City of Publication: Venezia

Year: 1515, luglio 16

There's also a selection of historic menus, culinary prints, etc.

 

like they say happy dance, happy dance

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:33:33 -0500

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wanted: Italian cookbook that hasn't been

        translated

 

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> wrote:

<<< the book I was thinking of was: Chapter 5 of

Romoli, Domenico. La Singolare dottrina di M. Domenico Romoli. In

Venetia : presso Gio. Battista Bonfadino, 1593.

Available online at the link that Brighid pointed out:

http://www.bib.ub.edu/fileadmin/imatges/llibres/grewe1.htm >>>

 

The 1593 edition (and the 1587) are also available on Google Books,

which may be easier to download.

 

Brighid ni Chiarain

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:54:06 -0800 (PST)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks]  Wanted: Italian cookbook ... Pisanelli

 

The book of Pisanelli is online in a 1586 edition on the slow-issimo server of the Oerobro collection:

 

http://130.243.103.139:8080/cgi-bin/library?e=p-000-00---0unicoo--00-0-0--0prompt-10---4------0-1l--1-sv-50---20-help---00031-001-1-0utfZz-8-00&a=d&cl=CL1

 

E.

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:25 +1300

From: Antonia Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Michelangelo and Butter

 

Suey wrote:

<<< I can't imagine butter being served in an Italian feast of that

period. Olive oil is more likely if anything at all. The first butter

factory in Madrid was at the turn of the 19th Century for Fernando

VII's third wife. It closed after she died meaning it was as short

lived as her marriage. >>>

 

Maestro Martino (15th century) certainly has plenty of mentions of

butter in his book, including a recipe for a mock butter for fast days.

 

Bartolomeo Scappi (16th century) mentions butter in several of his menus.

--

Antonia di Benedetto Calvo

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:58:19 +0000

From: CHARLES POTTER <basiliusphocas at hotmail.com>

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Michelangelo and Butter

 

Butter is almost always placed on the table at the begging of the feast in the Bancetti/Libro Novo (1549) by Christforo Messisbugo.

 

                            Master B

 

 

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:09:57 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Messisbugo mentioned

 

Here is an article where Messisbugo is mentioned:

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9b55518s

 

E.

 

<the end>



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