fd-Italy-msg – 2/24/08
Medieval Italian food. Recipe books. Sources.
NOTE: See also the files: Italy-msg, pasta-msg, cookbooks-msg, ham-msg, fd-paintings-msg, tomato-hist-art.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 17:13:37 GMT
Subject: Re: SC - Italian Renaissance----any translations out there?
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:32, maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know of ANY translated italian renaissance cookbooks? I
>have a few italian cookbooks with 'period' style recipes in them but no
>way to verify ingredients. One of the cookbooks I have is "The Heritage
>of Italian Cooking" by Lorenza di Medici. The photographs in the book
>are gorgeous. The recipes.well...more than half do not even have the
>english translation of the original recipe.
Castelvetro, Giacomo "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy, an
Offering to Lucy, Countess of Bedford", 1614. Translated with an
Introduction by Gillian Riley, Foreword by Jane Grigson. Viking Press,
published by the Penguin Group. 27 Wrights Lane, London W8 5TZ,
England. First edition, 1989. ISBN 0-670-82724X.
(Yes, it has more than just a discussion of fruits and veggies in
Italy, it also has a few recipes as well.)
Platina, Bartolomeo "De honesta voluptate". (Original published by L.
de Aguila, Venice in 1475) Translated by Elizabeth Buermann Andrews.
Published by Mallinckrodt Chemical Works in the Mallinckrodt
collection of food classics v. 5, 1967. English translation and
original Latin on opposite pages. LC Call No.: TX711 .P5 1967. Dewey
No.: 641.5945 I do not have the ISBN, but this book is available in
the Library of Congress listings, so you may be able to get it through
Inter-Library Loan.
Joseph Dommers Vehling also wrote a book entitled "Platina and the
rebirth of man", W. M. Hill, Chicago, 1941. LC Call No.: TX713.P6 V4,
Dewey No.: 641.5. The description in the LOC catalog is "Included in a
series of lectures by the author delivered at Cornell University,
Ithaca, New York, during the years 1933 to 1938" and MAY contain some
translations of Platina's work.
Duke Cariadoc's Miscelleny also contains translations of several of
Platina's recipes which, as you can tell from the sources above, were
printed in 1475.
There are a few other Italian works that I would LOVE to get and
perhaps translate someday. Bartolomeo Scappi's "Opera" (or Works)
written in 1596, Domenico Romoli's "La singolare dottrina di M.
Domenico Romoli sopranominato Panunto", and Cristoforo di Messisbugo's
"Banchetti compositioni di vivande, et apparecchio generale di
Christoforo di Messisbugo" among others.
Someone also mentioned "The Art of Renaissance Cooking", also by, I
believe, Gillian Riley. (I don't have to book with me to give the
specifics). While it does not have direct translations, it does give
some sourcing of when, where and who created the recipes that her
redactions are created from. Some very nice recipes, but without
knowing enough italian to make use of it, her biography leaves me in
the same boat as you, still searching for more. If you come up with
any more translated works PLEASE share! (Beg, plead, grovel, etc...)
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org
From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 13:38:45 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - italian food
Aoibheall (Lea D Wittie) wrote:
> does anyone know a good source of period italian recipies online?
> i'm doing a feast for an italian wedding next spring amd am trying to
> remedy my complete lack of knowledge concerning period italian.
> -Aibell inghean Dairenn
The thing to remember is that there has never, really, been an
"Itlaian" cuisine. The cooking and culture has been regional (like
'Chinese' cooking) since way before the Papal states of around 13th
century. The country we now know as Italy used to be a region of
separate sovreignties, dutchies, city-states that were most often at war
with some other entity or other (kinda like today's Italy). Even today,
the food eaten and produced in neighboring regions is quite variant from
even neighboring regions. What region (Romagna, Tuscany, Umbria). Even
great cities of the middle ages such as Venice, Florence, Rome had
different trade routes attendant to them and their food. Try searching
under regional cultures/cuisisnes.
- --
In Humble Service to God and Crown;
fra nicol difrancesco
(mka nick sasso)
AOA?,CMC
Barony of the South Downs
Knaves of Grain
Barrister's House
Heavy Archer
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:34:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Roman cookbook
>linneah at erols.com wrote:
>> Greetings. I just heard something about a cookbook published in 1475 by a
>> Roman librarian named "Sacci" (sp?). Does anyone have information on it?
>>
>> Linneah
>
>That wouldn't be Bartolomeo Scappi, would it?
>
>If so, he is the author of "De Honestae Voluptuae", under the name
>Platina.
>
>Adamantius
Also:
Il Cuoco Segreto di Papa Pio V (The Private Chef of Pope Pius V), by
Bartolomeo Scappi, Venice, 1570. This is chock full of marvelous
illustrations, including one of an Italian field kitchen. I'd dearly love
to get my hands on a copy of this book if anyone has one...
Sincgiefu
a.k.a. Cindy Renfrow
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:43:47 GMT
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Subject: SC - Ren. Italian Sources
I promised a while back to list some of the bibliography from Gillian
Riley's "Painters & Food: Renaissance Recipes". It's not that easy to
figure out which source she is using where and which ones are strictly
for the artwork and have no actual recipes. I'll try to extract what I
can from it.
Some sources we know of as the main Italian Ren. source books. These
are:
Platina, Bartolomeo. "De honesta voluptate"; Venice, L. De Aguila,
1475.
Messisbugo, Christoforo. "Libro Novo"; Venice, 1557.
Scappi, Bartolomeo. "Opera"; Milano, 1570.
Castelvetro, Giacomo. "The Fruits, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy";
London, 1614.
In addition, though it is not in her bibliography, she lists the diary
of Maria Vitorria della Verda (1555-1622), a nun in Perugia, as a
source for stories on everyday life as well as a few recipes.
Felici, Costanzo. "Del'Insalata e Piante che in Qualunque Modo Vengono
per Cibo Del'homo" (According to Riley, this gentleman wrote a
collection of letters evolved into a treatise on salads and the fruits
and vegetables of Italy. A precursor to Castelvetro, perhaps? She
doesn't list publication dates but he is listed as living from
1525-1585.)
Now if anyone finds any translations of the above, please let me know.
I have Castelvetro and Platina, but I would love to have any
translations of the rest of these if anyone comes across them.
Otherwise I'll do what I can in getting Italian/Latin pieces and
translating as best as I may with an English/Italian and a Latin
dictionary.
Oh, and Apicius is a good source even for Italian Ren. cooking. The
reason is that even Platina refers to him quite often, so it is more
than plausible that you might find a kitchen or party where a feast is
created around ancient roman foods. Especially when you consider the
typical Italian (especially humanist) interest in the ancients and
their culture.
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery
>A new Gentle in our shire, who spent 18 months in Italy, would like
>to do a period Italian feast next spring. I would greatly appreciate
>any help you could give me on where to find recipes, etc.
_The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: medieval recipes for today_
author: Barbara Santich
pub. by: Chicago Review Press
1-55652-272-x
It has 70 recipes, with (1) the originals (2) a translation and (3) the
modern version.
You can't get much more on-target than this. It is a trade paperback.
Lady Carllein
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:09:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nancee Beattie <nbeattie at mail.inlink.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery
An excellent source for period Italian food is Platina's On Honest
Indulgence (De Honesta Voluptate). Falconwood press has published a
translated version. Alban St. Alban used to carry it, and probably still does.
Meredydd
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:07:24 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Cookery Myths and a "New" Book (Longish)
>Greetings! I've been meaning to write about some of the "new" books I
>found when a recent post "tickled" my memory from one of them. Someone
>mentioned that Catherine de Medici brought Italian cooks to France,
>which is apparantly an "old cooks' legend" and not accurate. Elizabeth
>David, one of the cooking "gods" has a new version of her _Italian
>Food_ which I was going to tell you all about. (Actually, her estate
>does. She died a few years ago.) (ISBN 0-7651-9651-4) The book
>currently appears to be on "mark down" at Borders Bookstores for $5.99!
> The book is profusely illustrated, mostly with reproductions of
>_period_ art which depict various aspects of cookery. For the pictures
>and documentation alone, it's worth the price.
<deleted>
>
>Alys Katharine
I'll stop by Borders on my way home.
There is a book of recipes associated with Catherine de Medici. It was
published in 1555 by Girolamo Rusceli, an Italian who was Catherine's
astrologer.
The book is The Secrets of the Reverand Master Alixis of Piedmont and it
has been described to me as a collection of remedies with the odd
cooking recipe thrown in.
Bear
Date: 7 MAY 98 15:09:15 AST
From: RMcGrath at dca.gov.au
Subject: SC - Italian Cooking
http://www.italcuisine.it/index.htm
discusses briefly the history of Italian cooking ... but a caveat - the
English translation isn't up yet!
Ciao, ho molto da fare qui. Non puoi scrivere troppo!
Rakhel
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:20:35 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: [Sca-cooks]Italian Cookery was New member intro.
There are two bibliographic sources that you should
start with in Italian Cookery.
Westbury, Lord [David Alan]. Handlist of Italian Cookery Books.
Florence [Firenze]:, Olschki, 1963.
Cagle, William R. A Matter of Taste. A Bibliographical
Catalogue of International Books on Food and Drink.
Revised edition. New Castle, Delaware: Oak Knoll Press,
1999.
Do not be too quick to dismiss any Italian printed book.
Just because an edition might be published in Rome does
not mean that an earlier or later edition might not have
been the product of Venice or Bologna or Turin or Naples
or Ferrara. There are a number that cannot be identified
as to place. We have volumes that are described as "new
edition, Ferrara, 1601. Originally published [Florence?
1550?]. Moreover, the originals might have been in Latin
and then translated into Italian for subsequent publication
or even vice versa. You might want to also consult:
Claudio Benorat's Storia della Gastronomia Italiana. Milan:
Ugo Mursia, 1990. It has 9 pages of bibliography.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [SCA-cooks] Italian Renn. Food
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:44:35 -0500
>One point, Platina is based very heavily on MM, who is a Neapolitan (sp)
>isn't he? Southern Italian rather than Northern? (my memory is totally shot
>today so I could be totally off base here...) If so, is there any
>distinctive difference between the two regional cuisines?
Master Martino Rossini (IIRC) is from Como, which would make him Northern
Italian.
Neopolitan cooking does differ from that of Northern Italy, being influenced
by Moorish, Norman and Spanish cookery.
>There are recipes from "Libro di cucina del secolo XI" a Venetian cookbook,
>in "The Medieval Kitchen", both in original, translation and redaction form.
>
>Al Servizio Vostro, e del Sogno
>Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia
Again IIRC, this is Scappi's Opera.
Bear
From: Devra at aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:32:32 EDT
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks - Florentine Food
Did anyone mention Scully's NEAPOLITAN FOOD(Cuisine ...) [I'm at work and
don't have the exact title). Available from Univ MI, hardcover, $47.50.
Devra the Baker
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:51:10 -0500
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Florence was Suggestions anyone?
Take a look at: Carole Lambert's Du Manuscrit a la Table.
which was published in Montreal in 1992. It has the following
essay in it:
Grieco, Allen J. "From the Cookbook to the Table:
A Florentine Table and Italian Recipes of the Fourteenth
and Fifteenth Centuries." pages 29-38. It has a number of
footnotes that may prove helpful.
Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:34:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Italian cooking sources
On 9 Jan 2002, at 17:57, Mark.S Harris wrote:
> > Grieco, A.J.: From the cookbook to the table. A Florentine table and
> > Italian recipes of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In:
> > Lambert, C. (Dir.): Du manuscrit =E0 la table. Montr=E9al/ Paris 1992,
> > 29-38.
>
> Of course, even though these titles are in English that doesn't
> mean the contents are. But the other titles in the bibliography
> are not in English, so maybe these are.
I have the book in hand. The article is in English, but -- alas! -- it
does not contain any recipes. It is a discussion of the relationship
between dishes listed on actual historic menus and recipes found
in cookbooks of the same period. Some recipe names are
mentioned, but it is not a useful source for someone planning a
feast.
Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:26:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] On the subject of Italian food.
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Just wanted to let people know that I have been busy
making available the Italian translations I have been
doing on or off for the last year. These are all
linked from my webpage :
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/
There is:
Libro di cucina translation -
Updated libro translation -
An Italian Feast -
On the nature of cheese -
Stuffed pasta recipes -
Hare with papardelle -
Pesto like recipes -
Strawberry pie -
Rice dish -
Recipes for Roman macaroni, roast lamb and fruit soup
-Five stuffing recipes from 16th century texts -
Sambugado -
Little morsels or Biscotti from 16th century Italy -
Menus featuring biscotti -
Other biscotti recipes -
As I am almost continually updating and adding new
pages I figured it was easier to send people to the
home page rather than list 12 web addresses.
Helewyse (trying to get stuff organized at last).
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:44:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Mediterranean food
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>> Clifford Wright ties part of this together in his book-- A
>> Mediterranean Feast.
> Johnnae llyn Lewis