vinegar-msg – 1/10/08
Vinegar in period. Making vinegar.
NOTE: See also these files: Vinegar-art, Vinegar-NJFCC-art, verjuice-msg, yeasts-msg, wine-msg, beer-msg, pickled-foods-msg, salads-msg.
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From: rhayes at powerup.com.au (Robin Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Vinegar - was Yeasts was: 14th Century Bread
Date: 3 Mar 1997 03:34:29 GMT
Father Gregory of apospirit at sprintmail.com says...
>MamaMoose1 wrote:
>> I've never heard of a yeast (wild or tame) that produced vinegar. That's
>> usually produced by another organism contaminating the product.
>>
>> - A'isha al-Aneed
>
>I came in at the end of this thread so I risk looking like a bigger
>idiot than I am normally. It is my understanding that vinegar is a by
>product from the oxidation of alcohol. I will try to research this
>further. Since yeast decoposes suagr in to alcohol and carbon dioxide,
>in an indirect way; you could claim that yeast is responsible.
Previous discussion in this thread has covered the fermentation process of
sugars to alcohol.
generalised equation for fermentation.
C6H12O6 + yeast -> 2 C2H5-OH + Co2
sugar to alcohol and carbon dioxide
The yeast acts to obtain energy for its own growth by the reaction, the
alcohol being a waste product as far as the organism is concerned. Hence
the joke that a fermented product is "dead bugs in bug poo juice"... :-)
If you obtain a good quality "organic" style apple cider vinegar (or any
other vinegar such as malt or wine) you often get the "mother of vinegar"
for the vinegar in the product. Indeed this is considered a bonus, as it
proves the viinegar to still be "alive".
Wine fanciers often have a container covered with a clean cloth into which
they pour the dregs of even their quality wines, which then ferment into
great vinegar.
I have misplaced some of my reference books at the moment, but vinegar
used to be a more common product for sale in England during period than
wine, in types of style of vinegar offered vs wine.
Vinegar merchants were more plrntiful than wine merchants.
Wine kept in casks, tends to go to vinegar fairly quickly. Wine imported
from Europe to england was sloshed around in the barrels, promoting the
mixing of air, which speeds the vinegar generation process.
Basically
CH2CHOH + O2 + Bacteria -> CH3CO-OH + H2O
alcohol + oxygen + Bacteria -> Acetic acid + water
The bacterium is an "acetobacter", and acts to obtain energy for its own
growth by the reaction, thus "dead bugs in sour bug poo juice" I
suppose... :-)
Prior to 1800, the best known commercial vinegar producing method was
called the Orleans method, which took 3-4 months to process a barrel of
about 50 galls, but this was in still conditions on land. As the process
normally takes place only at the air/liquid surface (because of need to
get sufficient air into the liquid), thrashing the contents of the cask
around while bringing it over from France, or further by ship, speeds up
the process enormously. Bouncing it around on the back of a cart or pack
animals would help too. Later out of period processes also sped things up
by enabling more air to be put into the liquid easily.
Indeed the problem with wine in period was to stop it going off (note
Biblical references to new wine/old wine), which was not easily
accomplished without bottling, or special sealed storage jars, and the
sealant was a problem before cork was used late in period. Keeping it in
barrels is risky, especially since the science (or is that art:-) of the
time didn't understand things the way we do now.
Robin
--
rhayes at powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/
From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:34:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Vinegar
At 04:33 PM 4/15/97 +1000, Fiona Porteous asked:
>Is balsamic vinegar a. period and b. appropriate to any use here? (Is that
>champagne vinegar?)
I just took a quick cruise around the web to see what I could find. At the
web site of Alessi, one of the larger commercial balsamic vinegar
producers, they say (at http://www.vigo.com/BALSAMIC.htm):
"Balsamic vinegar has been made for hundreds of years. It originated in the
Modena region of Italy, and until recently only those regions were
privileged to experience its delights. It is recorded that in 1046 A.D.,
Boniface, marquis of Bologna, made a gift of Balsamic Vinegar to Henry III,
the Holy Roman Emperor. Like in wine making, each family had their own
special recipe. The Balsamic Vinegar was aged up to 25 years or more, and
sometimes spiced with herbs and seasonings. "
Take this as you will - remember, though, that foods with a long history
make for great marketing.
Balsamic vinegar (or aceto balsamico, if you prefer) is most certainly not
the same thing as champagne vinegar. The latter, obviously is made from
champagne, which is allowed (or encouraged) to turn to vinegar. According
to the web site of Master Choice (http://www.masterchoice.com/vinegar.htm),
another commercial balsamic vinegar producer, the traditional production
goes like this:
"After pressing, the juices of the trebbiano and lambrusco grapes that are
typical to the Emilia-Romagna region are blended and boiled over fire, and
then poured into barrels of oak, chestnut, cherry, mulberry and ash. For
years, the juice ages, ferments and condenses naturally, gradually
transforming into vinegar. Every year, the liquid is mixed with younger
vinegars and placed in a series of smaller and smaller barrels. The vinegar
absorbs much of its aroma from the oak and its color from the chestnut.
Then after five years, the vinegar is bottled."
That's the theory, anyway. Sadly, much of the cheap balsamic vinegar on the
market today is basically red wine vinegar cut with small amounts of
balsamic vinegar (not unlike Kona coffee, for instance, which sometimes has
as little as 3% Kona beans). You can get the traditionally made stuff, but
if you paid less than $15-20/bottle for it, it's probably cut with red wine
vinegar.
Mind you, this doesn't mean that the cheap stuff isn't fine to use, if you
like it. Heck, I use the cheap stuff 'cause I can't afford to pay twenty
bucks for vinegar. Just understand what it is.
- -Duncan, who recommends a dessert of fresh strawberries in balsamic vinegar
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady tabrady at mindspring.com SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:02:09 GMT
Subject: SC - Balsamic Vinegar and Verjuice
Someone had mentioned a while back on the list that they wanted to
know when the use of Balsamic vinegar came about. I hate to say that I
have no idea myself, but I sure would love to know!
I don't always find that sour juice is easy to come by, and wouldn't
have been easy to get at certain times of the year in a
Medeival/Renaissance household. As such I usually substitute about
half of what I would use in Verjuice as a red wine vinegar and fortify
the other half with at least a 4 year old Balsamic vinegar (preferably
the 20 year old stuff, but that can be pretty darn expensive!)
For those of you who may not know, many of the balsamic vinegars you
find in the stores, especially the cheaper ones, are not barrel-aged
at all, but chemically aged and flavored to approximate true balsamic
vinegar. If you ever feel like spending the money for it, I HIGHLY
recommend trying a truly aged balsamic vinegar, preferably over 10
years old. I could just about eat it with a spoon, it is so sweet with
a nice tang to it. One of my favorite ingredients.
I'll let everyone know if I find out anything and I would certainly
love to hear if anyone else has found out anything about how long
balsamic vinegar has been around.
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:47:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Balsamic Vinegar and Verjuice
<< Someone had mentioned a while back on the list that they wanted to
know when the use of Balsamic vinegar came about. I hate to say that I
have no idea myself, but I sure would love to know! >>
The current issue of Wine Spectator has a feature story on Balsmaic vinegars.
Lord Ras
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:20:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Goat Cheese
<snip>
Ceridwen
P.S. Oh, and BTW, I found the method for making vinegar... its the last
entry on the page from the "Old Icelandic Medical Miscellany" in His Grace's
Collection!!!!!!
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:30:57 -0500
From: mtraber at juno.com (marilyn i traber)
Subject: Re: SC -cider vinegar
>Ok, dear, I'll bite- how about directions/recipe for making cider
>vinegar. Thanks, Angelique
well, start with a hundred year old cider barrel, lol
actually, most apple cider[not pasteurized juice-gak] if left in the back
of the fridge will turn on its own. normally it takes what is called
mother-of-vinegar, which is a mass of microbal growth, place it in a
clean sterilized jar and add cider, sort of like brewing cyser using a
culture from a previous batch rather that dried commercial yeastbeasties.
I seem to remember that you can get mother of vinegar from brewing supply
stores and the wine and cake hobby shop in norfolk virginia.
it takes about a month to turn out a nice young vinegar, though it
mellows out with age. basically what I do is tap out a quart or so and
replace it with fresh pressed cider and make sure that i take out what i
will need for the next month or so.
margali
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:55:31 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC -cider vinegar
> i seem to remember that you can get mother of vinegar from brewing supply
> stores and the wine and cake hobby shop in norfolk virginia.
OR you can maybe get some unpasturised cider vinegar from a health food store
and add it to hard cider. The "mother" will form, converting the alcohol to
asetic (sp?) acid... aka vinegar. Done it several times now. New vinegar is
sharp, I cut the stuff with water to taste.
Corwyn
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:03:34 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Vinegar
And it came to pass on 1 Feb 98, that Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Here's a thought...what types of vinegar do you think go with
> English food, vs French food, vs the Eastern corpus? Or German? or
> Spanish?
>
> Chiquart specifies red wine vinegar in his shopping lists. Is this
> because being Savoiard, this is the type he could get? Would an
> English cook use malt vinegar, ie fermenting the easier to get beer,
> rather than the imported wine?
Anne Wilson in _Food and Drink in Britain_ says that wine was
produced locally in medieval times. The Domesday Book records 40
vineyards in southern England. The vineyard at the monastary at Ely
produced so much verjuice that the excess had to be sold off. When
cheap and plentiful wine from Gascony in France began to be imported
during the reign of Henry II, the English wine industry started to
decline. The Wars of the Roses aggravated the situation,
as did the dissolution of the monasteries under Henry VIII, since so
many of the vineyards were attached to religious houses.
"Vinegar" made from beer is more properly called alegar. Wilson
feels that it may have been introduced as early as Roman times.
Around the 17th century, alegar began to take the place of verjuice
in pickles and sauces, and began to usurp the name "vinegar",
previously only applied to wine-based products. Although
other kinds of vinegar were still made, malt vinegar became the most
common.
So it looks to me as though both wine vinegar and malt vinegar would
be appropriate for period British cooking.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:07:03 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Vinegar
And it came to pass on 1 Feb 98, that Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Here's a thought...what types of vinegar do you think go with
> English food, vs French food, vs the Eastern corpus? Or German? or
> Spanish?
After discussing English vinegars, I forgot to mention the Spanish
ones. The "Libro de Guisados" mentions vinegar and verjuice, though
it does not IIRC specify what type of wine they are made from. The
more common souring ingredients are the juice of sour oranges, lemon
juice, and pomegranate juice.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:28:46 -0500
From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie)
Subject: SC - Spanish souring agents
Hello from Sylvan Glen:
Lady Brighid said:
>> Here's a thought...what types of vinegar do you think go with
>> English food, vs French food, vs the Eastern corpus? Or German? or
>> Spanish?
>
>After discussing English vinegars, I forgot to mention the Spanish
>ones. The "Libro de Guisados" mentions vinegar and verjuice, though
>it does not IIRC specify what type of wine they are made from. The
>more common souring ingredients are the juice of sour oranges, lemon
>juice, and pomegranate juice.
>
>Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
>Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
>mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net
It is rather interesting that you say that sour citrus juices were
used more often as souring agents in the "Libro de Guisados". The opposite
situation is true in the "Arte de Cozina" some 70 or 80 years later.
Verjuice & vinegar seem to be used pretty much interchangeably in most
recipes, although some recipes mention only one or the other; there are lots
of recipes that call for one, the other or either. Sour orange juice is a
somewhat common as a souring agent & lemon juice is much less so. Lime
juice is called for once or twice. Pomegranite juice is not used at all.
Take care, Antoine
Dan Gillespie
dangilsp at intrepid.net
Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:07:20 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Spanish souring agents
And it came to pass on 2 Feb 98, that Dan Gillespie wrote:
> It is rather interesting that you say that sour citrus juices were
> used more often as souring agents in the "Libro de Guisados". The
> opposite situation is true in the "Arte de Cozina" some 70 or 80
> years later. Verjuice & vinegar seem to be used pretty much
> interchangeably in most recipes, although some recipes mention only
> one or the other; there are lots of recipes that call for one, the
> other or either. Sour orange juice is a somewhat common as a
> souring agent & lemon juice is much less so. Lime juice is called
> for once or twice. Pomegranite juice is not used at all.
> Take care, Antoine
::sigh:: That's what I get for relying on my faulty memory, rather
than double-checking. My recollection of the commonness of citrus
juices is based mostly on the fish section of the "Libro". In
looking over the rest of the recipes, vinegar and verjuice appear
more often than citrus, and rather more often than I remembered.
The vinegar, incidently, is generally specified to be white.
I'll just pull the hole in after me...
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net
From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (Daniel W. Butler-Ehle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Verjuice
Date: 2 May 1998 11:38:00 -0400
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Karl A Haefner (RENAISSANCE-COOK at prodigy.net) wrote:
: In two references, I've found that verjuice is a vinegar made from crab
: apples. There are also suggestions on what to use as a replacement, such as
: cider vinegar with lemon juice added.
:
: My quest ==> I would like to find either a procedure for making of vinegars
: so that I could produce my own crab apple vinegar or a source for purchasing
: crab apple vinegar from.
:
: I have NEVER come across a book on making vinegar. Mayhaps I am searching
: incorrectly. (Looking for verjuice in all the wrong places.)
Try a homebrew supplies store. There's a small book "Making Homemade
Vinegars" (no, that's not it...never mind the name) by Romanowski.
You'll also need a mother-of-vinegar culture (preferably for cider
vinegar rather than wine or malt).
Ulfin
From: Glenn David White <gdw0001 at jove.acs.unt.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Verjuice
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 03:00:16 -0500
Organization: University of North Texas
I'm pretty sure the Frug (you know...Jeff Smith...the Frugal Gourmet) does
wine vinegars in his "The Frugal Gourmet Cooks With Wine". I don't have
the book at hand so I can't check my facts.
-Glenn
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:48:11 EDT
From: melc2newton at juno.com
Subject: SC - Fish and Vinegar
I was looking thro' _Herbal Vinegar_by Maggie Oster for Christmas gift
ideas, and in the history (without documentation) section, she mentions
that...
"By the thirteenth century, a wide selection of vinegars -
including those flavored with clove,chicory, fennel, ginger, truffle,
raspberry, mustard, and garlic- was commonly sold by street vendors in
Paris. Pepper vinegar was especially popular during the Middle Ages
because wine that contained pepper was not taxed on importation into
Paris."
Now were could I start to justify this statement (preferably in English
translation)? Has anyone else run across this pepper vinegar in French
sources?
Beatrix
Oakheart/Calontir
Springfield, MO
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:18:26 -0600
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Flavored Vinegars
Christianna asked:
>A fellow in my group asked me last night about period recipies for
>flavored vinegars. Any ideas?
Looking through Rumpolt's Das New Kochbuch I found a flavored vinegar I'd
never seen before
Wenn man gedoerrten Meerrettichwurzeln pulverisiert in Essig thut/ macht jn
bald scharpff.
When one puts pulverized dried horseradish in vinegar it makes it sharp
before long.
Sabina Welser also has a vinegar recipe on kind of a large scale:
Take a jug into which can hold twenty quarts and spread it with pitch,
next take two pounds of tartar and pound it small and put it into the jug,
take four ginger roots, some thirty or thirty-two peppercorns, take
fourteen quarts of good vinegar and pour it in the jug, take six quarts of
good wine and bring it to a boil and skim it off. Afterwards let it cool
somewhat and pour it into the jug and let it stand for four weeks. See that
you do not stir it up, then it will be good and keep well.
Has anyone ever tried to make vinegar from wine or beer? I've seen several
recipes that call for hanging a cloth bag of sourdough in the wine or beer
and letting it ferment, but I don't have any sour dough starter right now
so I haven't given it a try.
Valoise
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:13:00 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Flavored Vinegars
THLRenata at aol.com writes:
<< And it just so happens that I have all three of those spices and was
wondering what to do with them! Recipes, please?
Renata >>
Wondering what to do with them? Surely, you jest, m'lady. Almost the entire
extant collection of recipes from the middle ages call for the use of these
spices. :-0
On the chance you were referring to vinegar recipes, I collect unusual shaped
botttles with corks like those available at boutiques or dollar stores. Put
a teaspoon or so of cubebs or grains or galegal chips in each bottle (1 inch
sections if your galengal is whole). Fill the bottle with your favorite
vinegar (red or white wine vinegar or apple cider vinegar). Stopper them
firmly and store at room temperature for 6 to 8 weeks. Mixed with
oli