lettuce-msg - 3/18/03
Lettuce in period. Recipes using lettuce.
NOTE: See also the files: salads-msg, beets-msg, vegetables-msg, cabbages-msg, leeks-msg, onions-msg, lovage-msg.
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From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 7 Jan 1995 22:12:10 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Moreach asks,
> GR> adds lettuce to the list explicitly, and catmint -- yes, catnip --
>
>Is it a correct assumption that this lettuce would be more like one of the
>modern leaf lettuces, such as red or romaine, instead of iceberg heads?
I would tend to go with red or green leaf, endive, romaine, or something
of the kind, but with the exception of endive, my authoritative source
for the preference is, well, thin.
Here's what my translation (sadly, I do not have a copy of the Latin
with me up here) of Platina says under "On Preparing Lettuce":
... There are several varieties of this vegetable.
Lacticaulis, sessilis, and crispa are praised above
all others. It is planted all year in rich, damp,
fertilized places, yet it is right to scatter
the seed in winter cold. [This is Italy, remember.]
.... There is serralia lettuce, which is wild, named
from the saw, because on its back it is serrated.
This is perhaps endive.
Under "On Preparing Endive" he says
I count endive among the varieties of lettuce....
I don't have with me any of the resources I'd usually use, either to
trace the origin of iceberg lettuce (I have a vague sense that it's
a relatively recent thing, but no conscious idea where I get that
sense from) or to try to run down lacticaulis, sessilis, and crispa
to find out exactly what they are.
At any rate, iceberg lettuce is probably no worse a substitute for
Platina's lettuce than ordinary supermarket carrots are for the
Menagier's.... It's a general problem.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 04:38:00 GMT
Greg Rose (greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu) wrote:
: Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Moreach asks,
: > GR> adds lettuce to the list explicitly, and catmint -- yes, catnip --
: >
: >Is it a correct assumption that this lettuce would be more like one of the
: >modern leaf lettuces, such as red or romaine, instead of iceberg heads?
: I would tend to go with red or green leaf, endive, romaine, or something
: of the kind, but with the exception of endive, my authoritative source
: for the preference is, well, thin.
.....snip........
: I don't have with me any of the resources I'd usually use, either to
: trace the origin of iceberg lettuce (I have a vague sense that it's
: a relatively recent thing, but no conscious idea where I get that
: sense from) or to try to run down lacticaulis, sessilis, and crispa
: to find out exactly what they are.
: At any rate, iceberg lettuce is probably no worse a substitute for
: Platina's lettuce than ordinary supermarket carrots are for the
: Menagier's.... It's a general problem.
This from an intensive library search...because I've been laying
awake at night wondering....
The kind of Iceberg lettuce sold in grocery stores is just one type of
Iceberg (and just one type of head-ed lettuce).Before the Middle Ages all
lettuces (and cabbages) were loose-leaved types.
During the Middle Ages as lettuces were increasingly grown in cooler
climates they developed a more tightly furled set of inner leaves (the
"head"...which was surrounded by loose leaves, like an unfurling rose.
Like modern Iceberg types, the outer leaves would be dark green, and the
inner leaves blanched from lack of exposure to sun).The same goes for
cabbages. These were in turn selected and grown more often in those cold
climates because of their increased resistance to the cold and their
increased storage life.
The loose leaved lettuces and Cos lettuces (like Romaine) were also grown.
I'd say it would be safe to use any kind of lettuce that suits your
fancy....(but what do I know? I am but a humble gardener... :)
----Max
-- ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry at netcom.com>
From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period lettuce
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 15:59:00 GMT
D>: Is it a correct assumption that this lettuce would be more like one of the
>: modern leaf lettuces, such as red or romaine, instead of iceberg heads?
D> I wish I had more reference on this,(I'm still working on that
>carrot issue). Since there are at least 6 more types of lettuce than
>I've ever seen in a grocery store, and since the types that are sold in
>the US aren't the types that are popular in Europe (where most lettuces
>were developed anyway)...it's probably not safe to assume that one (leaf)
>is more period than the other (iceberg) without checking it out. For all
>I can tell there's one that 's a crunchy leaf-head lettuce (not Romaine) that
>could be older than either of them. (If anyone comes up with any info
>please let me know and I'll add it to the research I come up with)
From "Medieval English Gardens" by Teresa MacLean
"The only vegetable that almost everyone grew, besides leeks, onions and
garlic were pot vegetables, of which the most important was cabbage."
Medieval vegetable gardening was largely and exercise in porray
production. It has to be admitted, with regret, that the standard
English method of cooking greens until they are a soggy mess is
historically correct." ..."All kitchen gardeners grew kale of one sort
or another, which cannot be said of any other vegetable outside the
allium family."
Then under the heading "Minor Pot Vegetables" she writes
"For those of a hot humour who wanted to be cooled down after an overdose
of 'hot' herbs like sorrel, there ws another herb and porray vegetable
that was appropriately purpose grown: lettuce. Its medicinal value led
the author of the southern English legends to write in 1290 'a fair
herb,that men call lettuce' and this fair herb was made into syrups and
plasters for the cure of 'hot' complaints. Herbal plasters were made of
shredded lettuce leaves, bound together with eggs or a sticky paste, and
applied to the affected area of skin. Lettuce plasters, like lettuce
syrups and drinks were usually prescribed to cure liver and digestive
disorders. The plants were pulled up, roots and all, to thin them out,
and their seeds went into the medicine store."
" Wild lettuce that fieldmen call skariols was easily picked and
eaten, either in porray or with bread, but it doesn't have the same
narcotic properties as lettuce, and was not brought into cultivation.
The Romans ate lettuces raw, with salad dressing as we do today but the
medievals grew them primarily for medicinal purposes and secondarily as
porray, particularly as an addition to pea soup."
"Endive grew wild in Southern England, but was cultivated for its
strong, bitter flavor. The most common variety was the broad leaved
chicory endive, which was used the same way as lettuce."
<my comment here> It would appear from her writings on these
vegetables that kale, white beets and cress were used, the way we use
lettuce today. I tried to only quote the most relevant passages.
Another source entitled In a Monastery Garden by Elizabeth and Reginald
Peplow and written to be a popular source and not the scholarly work of
MacLean's book merely states "The familiar green salad vegetable which in
medieval days grew in loose-leaved formation provided the basis of the
vegetables enjoyed by the monks for their main meal of the day. It was
also used as a mild sedative for insomnia or restlessness."
I did not see it mentioned in Hortulus another great medieval source.
Lady Deirdre Ui Mhaille
EK, Shire of Barren Sands
kathy.duffy at buckys.com
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period lettuce
Date: 8 Jan 1995 22:27:32 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
Lady Deirdre Ui Mhaille cites:
>From "Medieval English Gardens" by Teresa MacLean
>
>"The only vegetable that almost everyone grew, besides leeks, onions and
>garlic were pot vegetables, of which the most important was cabbage."
>
>Medieval vegetable gardening was largely and exercise in porray
>production. It has to be admitted, with regret, that the standard
>English method of cooking greens until they are a soggy mess is
>historically correct." ..."All kitchen gardeners grew kale of one sort
>or another, which cannot be said of any other vegetable outside the
>allium family."
Does Ms. MacLean cite any sources for her claim about the standard
way of cooking greens? It is not supported by the (few) recipes
I have seen for porray; it is also not supported by any other period
sources of which I am aware. I would be very interested in seeing
a primary source that supports this claim.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period lettuce
Date: 10 Jan 1995 05:24:55 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
Lady Deirdre Ui Mhaille responds to me, responding to her:
> >>Medieval vegetable gardening was largely and exercise in porray
> >>production. It has to be admitted, with regret, that the standard
> >>English method of cooking greens until they are a soggy mess is
> >>historically correct." ..."All kitchen gardeners grew kale of one sort
> >>or another, which cannot be said of any other vegetable outside the
> >>allium family."
>
>G>Does Ms. MacLean cite any sources for her claim about the standard
> >way of cooking greens? It is not supported by the (few) recipes
> >I have seen for porray; it is also not supported by any other period
> >sources of which I am aware. I would be very interested in seeing
> >a primary source that supports this claim.
>
>Well, I've lived in England and they still cook 97% of their vegetables
>into a soggy mass. Her primary source bibliography is 5 pages long with
>the most likely answers to question residing in the following:
Lady Dierdre, neither of these observations answers my question.
That the English today cook a certain way says almost nothing about
what they did in period. I, too, have lived in England; and almost
nothing I ate there bore any very great resemblance to any of the
staples of medieval English cuisine. This is true of "traditional"
cookery in general, both in terms of ingredients and in terms of
techniques, whether English, continental, or wherever-else.
As to her primary bibliography: you seem to think that I was
attacking the overall scholarship of the source you cited.
What I was asking, was whether the author cited any specific
sources for _this specific datum_. It should not be necessary
to point out that a book-length work that is, overall, highly
researched, may nonetheless contain a single claim that is
not strongly substantiated. That is why scholarly works include
not only general bibliographies, but also footnotes.
If the answer is that the author did not indicate the source for
this particular claim, a simple "no" will suffice. I understand
that that does not mean, necessarily, that the author had no
source.
BTW, I find it unlikely, given my experience of sources of the
kind you cited, that any of those you mentioned would contain
substantiation from this particular view. Accounts of priories
and abbeys, for instance, are excellent sources on what was
grown, where, when, in what quantity, and of how much of what
was eaten when, but generally thin to non-existent on how
it was prepared. Estate books are little better, and exchequer
records hopeless. Herbals don't talk about ordinary cookery, as
a rule, nor do books on medicine. In general, what you have
shown are good sources on gardening, but lousy sources on cookery.
The claim was a claim about cookery, not gardening.
Experts on medieval cookery (Hieatt, Scully, etc.) sometimes make
claims about gardening. Unless they are carefully substantiated,
claim-by-claim, I take them with a grain of salt: expertise in
cookery does not entail expertise in gardening. I am not familiar
with the experts in gardening, but I would be surprised if the
converse were not also true.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:42:28 GMT
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Subject: Re: SC - period salads
On the questions about salads in period I can only offer what I have
on Renaissance Italian styles. I had posted a couple of months ago
what Castelvetro wrote on salads, so I will not repeat that again. (If
you really want that post I can e-mail it privately for those who had
not seen it.) That was just slightly post period (1614) and probably
quite relevant for a late 16th century salat. He does list lettuce
varieties of capucina and romana (or Cos) lettuce. Purslane and endive
appear to be popular lettuce-like substitutes or additions for use in
salads.
So, now I will pull it back to Platina (Venice, Italy, 1475).In his
"On Honest Indulgence and Good Health" he covers a bit on lettuce
stating that there are several varieties available and that
Lacticaulis, Sessilis and Crispa are the best. (All lettuce is
considered cold and damp, for those that care). He also lists
goat-lettuce and Serralia lettuce. He states that lettuce can, and
often is, eaten plain with a sprinkle of ground salt, a little oil and
a little more vinegar. "There are those who add a little mint and
parsley to this preparation, so that it does not seem too bland". I'll
skip the bit about cooking lettuce.
Platina then goes on to endive, which he considers a type of lettuce.
It is also prepared in the same way as lettuce. He also lists a wide
variety of other raw leafy vegetables and how to prepare them, but our
interest is more on:
"On preparing a salad of several greens.
A preparation of several greens is made with lettuce, bugloss, mint,
catmint, fennel, parsley, sisymbrium, origan, chervil, cicerbita which
doctors call teraxicon, plantain, morella, and several other fragrant
greens, well washed and pressed and put in a large dish. Sprinkle them
with a good deal of salt and blend with oil, then pour vinegar over it
all when it has sat a little; it should be eaten and well chewed
because wild greens are tough. This sort of salad needs a little more
oil than vinegar. It is more suitable in winter than in summer,
because it requires much digestion and this is stronger in winter."
For those of you who think you can better figure out the ingredients
from the original Latin:
"CONDITUM Padodopum.
It item cenditu pandodopu ex lactuca: buglesso: meno: ceripholio:
cicerbita: qua teraxicon: laceda: qua arnaglossam medici uocat:
morella: foeniculi flore: ac plersiq; alus odoriferis herbis: bene
lotis: expressisq; pa tina ampla requnut: sale perfuso ubi paululum
resederit: eau? syluatica durities comedenda: ac bene dendibus
coterenda sunt. Hoc coditu plusculu olei & minus aceti requirit. Hieme
magis q aestate conuenit: qa plus concoctionis: quae hieme valida est
requirit."
My copy is tough to read and I don't know Latin, so assume any
transcription errors above are mine.
On a related note about the boiled onions, Platina says this about
preparing onions, for those that might be interested:
"The onion is also cooked under the ashes and coals until all the
rawness is steamed out of it; when it has cooled it is chopped finely
and put in a dish with salt and oil and defrutum, or rolled in must.
There are those who also sprinkle the onion with pepper or cinnamon."
Castelvetro in 1614 wrote this of onions:
"Cooked onions: When there are no spring onions, we make a salad of
roasted onions seasoned with crushed pepper. This is tastier and more
wholesome than eating them boiled. Onions without pepper are excellent
for clearing up the sort of bad cough that lingers after a cold."
I hope that some of you find that useful!
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:59:45 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Sigh. (was- shish
> Maybe somebody with one of those wonderful food/herbal books could just nix
> the existance of modern salad lettuce (leaf and "iceburg") all together?
> -brid
Lettuce does end the meal that with lettuce has had its beginning,
Lettuce, which too was wont to close the meals of their fathers.'
[Martial ep. Xiii]
Of lettuce (De lactuca): Bartholomaeus Anglicus, On the Properties of
Things, Book 17, Chap. 92
XVII.xciii. (Bart.)
Sorry, here are a couple of citations which make it impossible to wish
lettuce away. Apparently, lettuce has been under cultivation so long, the
original plant can't be determined. It does not prove the existence or
non-existence of lettuce salad, although I am of opinion lettuce would be
treated in the same manner as any other green, whatever that manner is for
the particular society and time.
Bear
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:14:36 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Sigh. (was- shish
>Maybe somebody with one of those wonderful food/herbal books could just nix
>the existance of modern salad lettuce (leaf and "iceburg") all together?
>-brid
Cress From Gerard's Herball - pages 249-251. "Nasturtium hortense.Garden
Cresses. ...Galen saith that the Cresses may be eaten with bread
Velutiobsonium, and so the Antient Spartanes vsually did; and the
low-Countrie men many times doe, who commonly vse to feed of Cresses with
bread and butter. It is eaten with other sallade hearbes, as Tarragon and
Rocket..."
Lettuce from Gerard - pages 306-308. "Lactuca. Lettuce. ...Lettuce maketh
a pleasant sallad, being eaten raw with vineger, oyle, and a little salt:
but if it be boyled it is sooner digested, and nourisheth more. It is
serued in these dayes, and in these countries in the beginning of supper,
and eaten first before any other meate: which also Martiall testifieth to
be done in his time, maruelling why some did vse it for a seruice at the
end of supper, in these verses...
Tell me why Lettuce, which our Grandsires last did eate,
Is now of late become, to be the first of meate?
Notwithstanding it may now and then be eaten at both those times to the
health of the body: for being taken before meat it doth many times stir vp
appetite: and eaten after supper it keepeth away drunkennesse which
commeth by the wine; and that is by reason that it stayeth the vapors from
rising vp into the head."
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:15:54 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Soup
> now, somewhere I learned that iceberg lettuce was developed in the early days
> of the california mega-farm industry. It was developed to be shipped east by
> train in cars kept cool with huge chunks of ice. I'm pretty sure that butter
> crunch and boston lettuce are recente developments as well. What might be a
> more period choice? Romaine? Endive?
>
> Bonne
Iceberg went into commercial production in 1894, but it was grown prior to
that and was known as Crisphead lettuce.
According to Root, the Anglo-Saxons did not cultivate lettuce, but gathered
it wild. Charlemagne directed that it be grown in his gardens and
apparently it has been grown in French gardens all through period, but that
during the Middle Ages, watercress was more preferred and grown
commercially.
In 1574, four kinds of lettuce were being cultivated in France; the small,
the common, the curled, and the Roman. The Roman is Romaine. The curled is
a loose head lettuce of which Butter lettuce is a variety. Common is
probably leaf lettuce and, as a guess, small lettuce is a small head
lettuce.
I tend to use leaf or Romaine when I cook, but that's more from flavor than
any sense of history.
Bear
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:53:35 +0100
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Lettuce
In the Fromond list of plants (over 100 designated) for the garden (English,
c 1500) lettuce is a pot-herb (ie to be cooked), not one of the salad herbs.
Has anyone tried this? Personally I don't like cooked lettuce and tend to
go with Markham and use it in the salad. I tend to use cos and lollo rosso
types, being non-headed types of lettuce.
Caroline
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:23:47 -0400
From: Marilyn Traber <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: Lettuce (was Re: SC - Citron and Potato)
Ya know, if you were to use the wild lettuice, which ic a long tlall stalky
plant, 4' tall with long skinny leaves and bitter as sin, with all the water
changes would give you the thin stalks of a candy with the bitter gone and just
the syrup and spices taste. anybody know when they made the change from the wild
lettuice form to the sweet little things we grow now?
margali
and they are also a source of an opiate like latex sap, used for eye trouble and
sleep disorders....candy before bed perhaps?
From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:06:49 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Lettuce (Welserin)
As long as we are still fixated on lettuce here is one I have found from Sabina Welserin:
90 If you would like to make chicken on head lettuce
Then take a pot and lay a handful of lettuce in it and a chicken on top, again a handful of lettuce and a chicken and so forth. Take after that good broth, which should be rich, and put a good piece of butter into it and salt it and boil it,
until you think that it has cooked enough. Put a little mace into it. One must, however, use head lettuce and it should be washed clean beforehand, then it is ready.
I think it is interesting that she specifies Head Lettuce and not Loose Leaf. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Serena da Riva
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Lettuce (Welserin)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:18:45 -0600
Devil's advocate time. Is the translation correct? If so, what is meant by
"head lettuce?"
The title line of the recipe is, "Jtem wilt=FA hener jn ain kepffleten sallat
machen." "Kepffletten" is being translated as "head lettuce." "Kepff" (or
"kepf" as it later appears) for "kopf." A reasonable translation if there
is no other possible meaning for "kepff."
So does "head lettuce" mean what we think it means?
If you check Leonard Fuchs's Herbal under Latuca (the Latin and genus name
for lettuce):
http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuchs/170-1.gif
The illustration on pg 171 is labeled Latuca capitata. And not a bowling
ball shaped head of lettuce in sight (although, if you look below the
branchs, there is a close cluster of leaves which probably represents a
"loose" rosette). The German subtitle is "great or white lettuce." This
suggests, in the absence of better information, that "kepfletten" is a
lettuce with a well defined but loosely wrapped rosette, possibly similar to
a modern butterhead.
Bear
> As long as we are still fixated on lettuce here is one I have
> found from Sabina Welserin:
>
> 90 If you would like to make chicken on head lettuce
> Then take a pot and lay a handful of lettuce in it and a
> chicken on top, again a handful of lettuce and a chicken and so
> forth. Take after that good broth, which should be rich, and
> put a good piece of butter into it and salt it and boil it,
> until you think that it has cooked enough. Put a little mace
> into it. One must, however, use head lettuce and it should
> be washed clean beforehand, then it is ready.
>
> I think it is interesting that she specifies Head Lettuce and
> not Loose Leaf. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
>
> Serena da Riva
<the end>
