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cook-flowers-msg - 11/25/16


Cooking with flowers. Medieval flower dishes.


NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, Roses-a-Sugar-art, sotelties-msg, roses-art, lavender-msg, p-herbals-msg, gardening-bib.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes

Date: 11 Mar 1994 05:12:42 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


In article <2lo4oq$isk at alpha.epas.utoronto.ca>,

Michael McKay <mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca> wrote:

>      A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called

>the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600

>dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?

>Thank you.


Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later

corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers. If you can find,

it, there is a facsimile reprint (probably by the "English Experience"

series, but I'm missing some of the title pages) of a 1653 book entitled

"A Book of Fruits and Flowers" that has some relevant recipies -- although

later than your target period. The collection "A Fifteenth Century Cookry

Boke" has the following recipie:




Take Almaunde Mylke and flowre of Rys, & Sugre, an Safroun,

an boyle hem y-fere; than take Red Rosys, and grynd fayre in a

morter with Almaunde mylke; than take Loches, an toyle hem with

Flowre, an frye hem, & ley him in dysshys; than take gode pouder,

and do in the Sewe, & caste the Sewe a-bouyn the lochys, & serve forth.


In other words, make a sauce of almond milk and rose petals thickened

with rice flour, and pour it over fried fish.


The same source has sauces/puddings (in the modern sense) flavored with

primroses, hawthorn flowers, or violets. Check it out.


Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn  



From: davesg at netaxs.com (David J. Szent-Gyorgyi)

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes

Date: 14 Mar 1994 05:45:28 GMT

Organization: Magyarotropic Medievialophiles


Michael McKay (mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca) wrote:

:      A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called

: the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600

: dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?

: Thank you.


The recipe below is taken from George Lang's THE CUISINE OF HUNGARY. It

is one of seven English-language translations for recipes provided in

the history of Hungarian cuisine at the front of the book. The recipes

are taken from an early sixteenth-century manuscript now in the

Szechenyi Library in Budapest, and from THE BOOK OF MIHALYI

SZENT-BENEDEKI (1601). Unfortunately, the primary sources aren't



Forgive me for posting a recipe without the primary source; I don't

have it. I'm willing to trust Lang's experience and background. He's a

professional restaurateur, and was born in Hungary. If you're

interested in the history of Hungarian food, you must read this book,

which is full of historical information -- Lang spends 150 pages on the

culinary history of Hungary and on profiles of the gastronomic regions

of the country!


I'll be a while tracking down the medieval manuscripts and books listed

in the bibliography; I'm looking for enough recipes to hold a period

Hungarian feast, complete with documentation for each dish.


Here's the recipe:




"Make a batter of egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right

consistency. Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of the

stem; wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain. (Make sure that

there are no bugs inside flower.) Dip it into the light batter, and

stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry. Shake it every now and then

to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the rosebush.

If you add some rosewater to the batter, so much the better. Flavor

with cane honey."


Lang asks whether this recipe was a "poetic variation of the

zucchini-flower fritter they must have learned from the Italians some

generations ago."


If you quote the recipe, note that accents aigus should be used over

the two E's in "Szechenyi" and over the A in "Mihalyi."


Best of luck with the feast!

        ,   ,  ,

Dave Szent-Gyorgyi/Kolozsvari Arpad, to his SCA friends

---                                                            ,   ,  ,

Dave Szent-Gyorgyi                                         Kolozsvari Arpad

davesg at netaxs.com     border of Bhakail & Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom, SCA

"We HAVE to teach the net               On a field Sable, a trident between

to handle diacriticals!"                     two hippocampi respectant Or.



From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes

Date: 12 Mar 1994 11:58:10 -0500

Organization: MIT LCS guest machine


Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Again, I'm posting from Hossein's

account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself.


Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn responded to Michael McKay:


>>     A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called

>>the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600

>>dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?

>>Thank you.

>Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later

>corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers.


The scholarship I have seen agrees as to the origin, but no actual recipe

I have seen calls for elder flowers.  I'm not sure that such a recipe is

known, at least in English.  (Elder flowers are pretty much unique to

Anglo-Norman cuisine, at least partly because of where they grow.)


Before plunging into a list of recipes, a couple of words of caution.


I see essentially three difficulties with preparing period dishes of which

flowers are a major ingredient.  First, some of these are simply not available,

at least in places I have lived.  After roses, the most common flowers in

early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms.  Right.  Not

available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need

for even quite a small feast.


Second, many of these, while available, are most readily available in

radically different forms.  "Rose" does _not_ mean "American Beauty": what we

have around now are mostly hybrid tea roses.  It is possible to get eglantine,

for instance, but it is not easy.  I have no idea what sort of violet was

native to England, but I'm fair to middling sure it wasn't African violets,

and I wouldn't want to bet it's the kind that show up wild in my yard in

Virginia. My point is not so much one of authenticity as that different

members of the a botanical family may differ wildly both in flavor and

in edibility.  (Nightshade and tomatoes are related.  The "berries" of the

latter are fine to eat....)


Third, unless you are growing the flowers yourself, you want to be _very_

careful about what comes with them.  Flowers that are grown commercially

for sale as pretty blossoms have frequently been treated with lots of

chemicals that it is decidedly unwise to eat.


With those provisos:


Recipes calling for flowers are reasonably common in Anglo-Norman cuisine.

Recipes for rosee, spinee, and suade, which are sort of porridges of almond

milk with roses, hawthorn blossoms, or elder flowers respectively, occur in

the 13th C Anglo-Norman collection edited by Constance Hieatt in _Speculum_

(1986) and in all four of the complete MSs from the 14th C included in

_Curye on Inglysch_ (including Forme of Curye), sometimes twice in a single

collection (_Diuersa Cibaria_ has two of each).  The recipe that Lady Tangwystl

included is a 15th C version of one of these dishes, which apparently were

both popular and persistent in the cuisine.  They occur early in collections,

indicating that they tended to be served in the first course, and were viewed

as hearty staples rather than delicacies (!).


In addition, Utilis Coquinaria has recipes for primerole, pyany, heppee and

vyolet, which call for primroses, peony blossoms and seeds, roses and rose

hips, and violets respectively.  Diuersa Servicia has a fritters recipe that

calls for apple blossoms.


All of these are available in _Curye on Ignlysch_, Constance B. Hieatt and

Sharon Butler, editors, Oxford University Press (1985) ISBN 0-19-722409-1.


If one is willing to go very slightly out of period (1609, if I recall the

date correctly), there are several recipes for preserving and candying flower

blossoms in Hugh Platt's _Delights for Ladies_.  I got my copy of Hugh Platt

from Cariadoc, in the first volume of his collection of medieval cookbooks.


Good luck.


-- Angharad/Terry




From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes

Date: 13 Mar 1994 17:34:08 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


>Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Again, I'm posting from Hossein's

>account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself.


>at least in places I have lived.  After roses, the most common flowers in

>early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms.  Right.  Not

>available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need

>for even quite a small feast.

>-- Angharad/Terry


I beg to differ. In central California, the red elder is practically a weed,

growing profusely along roadsides (BAD collection site, due to car exhaust

contamination) and in other uncultivated areas. In fact, they should be

blooming about this time of year ... This is the same species as grows in

Europe (according to my herbal) but should be differentiated from the

dwarf elder (common in the eastern US).


If you found someone helpful in the Golden Rivers (Sacramento) area, you

might be able to get an express shipment of elder flowers that you fit your



Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn  



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT


Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores?


Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder

flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas.  Also available in

bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc.


While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you

have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption.


--Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK

marian at world.std.com



From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:39:55 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: SC - Edible Flowers


Hello all.


Today's thunderstorms are making me stay inside rather than be outside

planting my herb beds. Ras, I found and identified several red thrips

yesterday! I also found a bright green beetle, and they were all in the same

bed as an orange  salamander, so I guess they weren't long for this world!

Anyway, as I was planting, I realized that I have very little knowledge of

edible flowers. I've been wondering if someone could post a short list.


These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely

organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible:









The flowers of edible herbs


What else can I add to the list?


Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants



From: PETERSR at spiegel.becltd.com (Peters, Rise J.)

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:12:28 -0500

Subject: RE: SC - Edible Flowers


>>Carnations, but not if they're dyed.  But they don't have much taste (kind

of like lettuce).



From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>

Date: 19 May 1997 11:23:00 -0500

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


> These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely

> organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible:


> Rose

> Pink

> Marigold

> Nasturtium

> Dandelion

> Violet


Only the blue/purple violet flowers are safe to eat.  Don't eat white or pink



> strawberry

> The flowers of edible herbs


Be wary of the last.  Not all parts of any plant are safe for consumption; for

example, the root of the potato plant is edible but the remainder of it is

not. I believe the fruit of the tomato is safe, but the remainder of the

plant is not (I could be misremembering).  


> What else can I add to the list?

Prim rose was eaten in period.

> Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants



(who has this silly idea that all gardeners and period cooks would benefit

from having several herbals just lying around)



From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


In a message dated 97-05-19 10:53:07 EDT, you write:


<< What else can I add to the list? >>




Mums (not period)

Chive bloosoms

Onion Blossoms

Pea Blossoms(One of my favorites)

Squash bloosoms (not period except those of the Luffa gourd)

Sweet woodruff blossoms

Iris, German

Calendula (pot marigold)


Lord Ras



From: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:20:52 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: SC - Re: Sugar v Honey


a related topic currently happening here can be found at:


which is cooking with flowers... :)


In Service to the People of the Society,

Filip of the Marche



From: Baaastard at aol.com

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


Pansys can be added to the list of edible flowers, but I don't know if they

were used in period.



Michael Farrell



From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:52:39 -0400

Subject: Re: SC - Hello--this is the requested intro by a newcomer.


Welcome, Joan!


GARNER at admin.hnc.edu wrote:

> I have a (hopefully) simple question: are sugared flowers suitable for

> ornamenting late medieval French food?  I'm not a raging purist by any

> means, but if they are strictly a Victorian conceit, then even I would

> have to draw the line!


> Joan Garner


Nyah! Ah! Ah! (Or other designated evil chuckle...) We always hope our

questions are simple!


Actually, the simple answer is: I dunno.


The complex answer is that recipes for various candied flowers are found

in some late-period English sources. The one that comes to mind first is

Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book, which, as we all know, Emerged Fully

Grown From The Forehead of Zeus in 1604 ;  ), and most of the recipes

therein are from some unspecified prior date. I wouldn't be at all

surprised to find that candied flowers are a descendant of the various

confited (in this case sugared) spices, although the method for

producing them is slightly different. I do know that spice confits show

up frequently in medieval recipes as a garnish for various foods, but

I'm aware of no direct evidence that this was ever done with candied



On the other hand, if they weren't used in that way, what DID they do

with them?


So, the extreme likelihood, based on what we really know, is that

candied flowers did exist in what the SCA regards as late period

England, and might well have been found in France too. They might have

been used as a garnish for food, and they might not.


I hope this helps.


G. Tacitus Adamantius



From: Alys of Foxdale <foxdale at wolfstar.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:36:47 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Rosehip recipe


> I was out dead-heading my White Rose of York climber and there were

> already some rosehips forming. I remembered that my brother used to make

> a rosehip jelly, but I can't find any recipes (period or modern) for it.

> Any one know if this is period? Have a recipe?


> Thanks.


> Julleran


Ok, I've been swamped for a couple of days, and I don't know if anyone

has posted anything yet, so I apologize in advance if this is a repeat

of anything.


All of these are from "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by Eleanour

Sinclair Rohde, Dover edition ["Unabridged, unaltered republication

of original (1939) edition.]. Some of her recipes have attributions

attached, others not.  I have made sure I have reproduced the recipes

as exactly as I can, given the limitations of straight ASCII text

(i.e., those are not typos down there in the Russian recipe).


   Alys of Foxdale          Shire of Stierbach, Kingdom of Atlantia

mka Sallie Montuori               Chantilly, Virginia, USA

foxdale at wolfstar.com




Ingredients: Wild rose hips, Sugar.

Method. To every pound of Rose hips allow half a pint of water.  Boil

till the fruit is tender.  Pass the pulp through a sieve fine enough

to keep back the seeds.  To each pound of pulp allow a pound of

preserving sugar.  Boil till it jellies.




Gather the hips before they grow soft, cut off the heads and stalks,

slit them in halves, and take out all the seeds and white that is in

them very clean; then put in an earthen pan, and stir them every day

else they will grow mouldy; let them stand till they are soft enough

to rub through a coarse hair sieve; as the pulp comes take it off the

seive; they are a dry berry; will require pains to rub it through;

then add its weight in sugar, and mix it well together without

boiling; keeping it in deep gallipots for use. -- E. Smith.  The

Complete Housewife 1736.




Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them

and season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake

it scrape on sugar and serve it in. -- The Art and Mystery of Cookery

Approved by the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May





To every pound of hips allow half a pint of water; boil till the fruit

is tender, then pass the pulp through a sieve which will keep back the

seeds. To each pound of pulp add one pound of preserving sugar and

boil until it jellies. -- E. G. Hayden.  Travels Round Our Village.




Choose ripe large sound berries from a dog rose bush (Eglantine).

They should be hard.  Scrape each berry and cut off tip through

opening remove pulp with the aid of a bodkin or tiny spoon, being

careful not to break berry.  Tie a piece of linen round the bodkin or

little spoon and wipe the inside to remove any pulp that may remain.

There are fine hairs which must be removed.  Drop berries into cold

water and rinse several times shaking about to make sure that all

little hairs are gone.  Put into a saucepan, pour over boiling water,

put on fire and as soon as the water boils again pour berries out on a

sieve and pour cold water over them,  Then put a clean cloth over the

sieve and put each berry standing with the little hole underneath to

drain well.

Prepare syrup.  For every pound of berries use 3 lb. sugar and 23/4

2 and 3/4 cups water.  Let it boil twice then put in berries and cook

till tender.  Remove scum which forms on jam.  When tender pour into

china bowl, tie a cloth over and let stand for several days.  Every

now and then move the bowl about, so that the berries are well filled

with the syrup.  Pour into jars and close with air-tight stoppers or

parchment paper.  Keep in a dry place. -- The Russian Cook Book.

Compiled and translated by Princess Alexandre Gazarene 1924.



From: DdreMacNam at aol.com

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:07:18 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


Good Gentles ,

Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,

Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've

never tried them myself.





From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:32:00 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,

Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've

never tried them myself.


Unbelievably mild.  In combination with even the dullest blanc mange, the

flavor of the carnation would be lost.


        Tibor (Herbivore)



From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Date: 20 Jun 1997 09:30:37 -0700

Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers


>>Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,

>>Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father >>that is I've

never tried them myself.


Carnations are related to pinks/dianthus and sweet-williams, which were

refered to as "gilly flowers" in the middle ages.  They are edible and show up

in period recipes, especially sweets.  According to recipes and herb books

they are supposed to have a slight clove flavor.  They are pictured in many

borders of illuminations.  Note for using flowers (if people don't already

know) pinch off the white part at the base of petals, as this is bitter and a

little nasty tasting.



From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:03:57 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: SC - Nasturtiums


In a message dated 97-06-20 21:12:39 EDT, you write:

<< Now, for a peppery flower, go for a nasturtium!  >>


These would be good, however, I would point out that nasturtiums are new

world. An exciting peppery flavor can be obtained from radish blossoms also.


Lord Ras



From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:30:45 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: SC - peony


According to the Texas A & M University page on edible flowers... peonies

are edible.

If you are interested I can give you the page since they specialize in

developing new strains of various things.  They are the ones who developed

the mild jalapeno strain.  A very strange bird (mild hot pepper)... Anyway

they posted a whole list of edible flowers including peonies.


Clare St. John



From: Aldyth at aol.com

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:18 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - edible flowers and pickles


I just came across two recipes in my wanderings.  _A New Booke of Cookerie_

by John Murrell 1615.  Falconwood press.  No redactions yet, but see if they



A Sallet of Rose-Buds, and clove Gilly-flowers


PIcke Rosebuds, and put them into an earthen Pipkin, with white Wine-vinegar

and Sugar: so you may use Cowslippes, Violets, or Rosemary flowers.



To keep greene Cucembers all the yeere


Cut sixe Cucumbers in pieces, boile them in Spring-water, Sugar and Oyll, a

walme or two.  Take them up and let your picke stand until it be cold.


To keepe Brome Capers


Boyle the greates and hardest buds of Brome, in Wine-vinegar, and Bay Salt;

scum it cleane: when it is colde you may put in Raw ones also, each by

themselves: put in a piece of Lead on the raw ones: for all that swim will be

blacke, and the other that are pressed downe as greene as any Leeke.  The

boyld ones will change colour.





Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:25:08 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Gillyflowers


Just a further blab or two on this subject: Hieatt and Butler seem to

feel that the reference to "clowes gilfre" in Utilis Coquinario are to

the spice, cloves, or to use the more precise German term, Speissnageln

(Spice Nails). With one exception that I've been able to find, the

recipes in the source manuscript for Utilis Coquinario specify, in

recipes calling for flowers, that the ingredient is "flowers of_____".

This is true of hawthorne, appletree, primroses, violets, and bean

plants. As I say, the one exception appears to be roses, in a recipe

simply calling for roses.





Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:01:13 -0400 (EDT)

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Flower fritters


If any one has and interest, I have a recipe translation from a slightly out

of period Hungarian cookbook for a dish called "Rose Doughnuts" (battered and

deep fried roses).  I had meant to post earlier, but I was also hoping to

find the cookbook sooner as well.  Once I find the cookbook I'll post the






Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:08:08 -0400 (EDT)

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: SC - Rose Doughnut recipe


Here it is, as promised.  This translation comes from _The Cuisine of

Hungary_ by George Lang.   The recipe is originaly from _The Book of Mihaly

Szent-Benedeki_ published August 10, 1601.



Rose Doughnut


Make a batter of  egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right

consitancy. Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of  stem:

wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain.  Dip it into the light

batter, and stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry.  Shake it every now

and then to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the

rosebush. If you add some rosewater, so much the better.  Flavor with cane



I take no responsibility for the translation, since I didn't do it.  This

does sound interesting though, doesn't it?





Date: 2 Oct 1997 14:51:29 -0500

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #324


Aoife writes:


> I have a large number of wild rose hips growing, and I'd like to harvest

> them and do something.I've been bitten by that "preserve for the winter"

> bug. Someone once lent me a source that had "A Tarte of Hyppes" in it, but I

> can't track it down now. Do any of you have any other ideas?>>>>


Diana replies:

>      Hummmm, the one time I tried this with the wild roses growing on the

>edge my parents land, I didn't have much luck. They had tiny hips, that were

>mostly seed. They never softened a great deal despite long boiling and

>certainly never gave up enough flesh to do anything with. The best that those

>would be useful for would be tea, or making jelly from the juice.


Instead of boiling the hips, try decocting (simmering) a teaspoon of hips in a

cup of water for 15-20 minutes. *Don't let it boil* (this seems to nasty

things when you are trying to rehydrate anything).  It does wonders with dried

rosehips. Macerate them in a mortar and pestle.


All this was done in preparation for making rose-hip butter, which was a

greater success than even the honey butter!  I macerated the rose hips, then

added them and a drop or two of honey (and a couple drops of the juice) to the

butter. And I was left with a wonderful tea to drink afterward.


I wonder what this would taste like with a little vinegar and oil and put over

a salad??  Maybe done as muffins -- use the rose hip tea in lieu of the water?

Rose bread??





Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:17:15 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Rose Hips


Hello! The reference you asked about is "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by

E. S. Rohde, rpt. Dover Publ., Inc, New York, 1973.  I'm pretty sure it's

still in print.  The tart of rose hips is on p. 75:


"To Make a Tart of Hips

Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and

season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake it scrape

on sugar and serve it in.  From The Art and Mystery of Cookery Approved by

the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May 1671."


Other recipes include Marmalade, Jam, conserve of rose hips, and sauce

eglantine. Most of the other recipes are for petals, not hips.


Hope this helps!



renfrow at skylands.net



Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:29:06 +0200 (METDST)

From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se>

Subject: SC - Rose hip soup


Found a recipie in an old cookbook. Not period, but still usefull.


- --------------------------

Rose Hip Soup (6 servings)

(From: "Hemmets kokbok, 31st ed", Norstedt & Soner Forlag, Stockholm 103,



5-6 dL rosehips, deseeded

2.5-3 L water

1.5-2 dl sugar

1 1/2 T potato starch

(25 g almonds (scalded and slivered))


1. Put the rosehips in cold water and bring to a boil. Let boil until

soft. Whisk forcefully now and then.


2. Pass through a coleander, and add sugar.


3. Thicken with the potatoe starch dissolved in some water and brought to

a boil.


4. Adjudst sweetness to taste, and serve, either as is or with slivered


- --------------------------


Please note my discussion earlier regarding the vitamin C and boiling.

Personally I would use a mixer to puree, rather than passing through the



For the metrically impared:


1 dL= 0.1 Litre = 3.5 fl oz (US)

1 litre = 34 fl oz (US)

25 g = 25 grams = 0.9 oz



- --

Par Leijonhufvud                  par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se



Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:07:42 -0500

From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re:  SC - Rose Hips


Hi, Katerine here.  Aiofe asks about things to do with rose hips.  There's

a recipe for Heppee, a rose hip pottage, in one of the 14th C MSs in

Cury on Inglysch.  


- -- Katerine/Terry



Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:10:08 -0700 (PDT)

From: Aine <aine at shocking.com>

Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals


> Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing

> but different names for different stages of the flower?


>   Stefan li Rous


YES there is a difference!!!!

Rose petals of course are rose petals, the rose hips on the other hand are

the swollen parts of the rose, right after the stem and before the "flower"

part. On blooming roses they're normally green, however, once the flower

part has died, (ON the bush) the hip is left and ripens to a reddish-orange



Aine (the one in the West)



Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:44:59 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals


> Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing

> but different names for different stages of the flower?


>   Stefan li Rous


Rose hips are the fruit of the rose plant. If you watch an apple tree

bloom, and watch the blooms wither away and then all you have left is

the stump of the bloom, which then grows into an apple. In the same way,

rose hips are the sour fruit of the rose, which, by the way, are closely

related to apples, hence the imagery.





Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT)

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Classes: More Last Minute Tips Requests


<<I found a Rose Doughnut recipe that I am incorporating--I think Noemi

posted it originally.  Can I get biblio information on the book of



The original source is: _The Book of Mihaly Szent-Benedeki_, August 10, 1601


I found the translation in: _The Cuisine of Hungary_, George Lang,  pub. in

1990 by Bonanza Books, dist by Crown Publishers, Inc. New York, copyright

1971 by George Lang,  recipe is on page 26.





Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 15:06:05 -0900

From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers


Meliora & Drake wrote:

> All of my cornflowers are currently out in bloom.  I remember reading (in

> Fettiplace I think) a recipe for pickling or preserving the flowers for use

> in salads in the winter.  However, in re-reading Fettiplace I cannot find

> the reference.  I found a recipe for preserving Clove Gilliflowers (Pinks)

> for the same purpose, but not the cornflowers.


> Can anyone help with references to using cornflowers in/as food ??  My main

> interest is early Renaissance but any time in "SCA period" would do.


> Meliora

> meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au


My Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery and Booke of Sweetmeats has

three or four recipes for pickling and preserving flowers.  The names of

the flowers given are:  "cloue gillyflowers, cowslips burrage &

marrigoulds." There is also a recipe called "Another way for keeping of

flowers which is accounted better then ye first" which doesn't specify

any particular type of flowers. Don't know if these are what you may be

looking for.  The recipes in this book aren't redacted, just the recipe

with comments by the transciptionis, Karen Hess.  If you would like them

let me know and I'll forward them to you.

Lady Clare

Canton Inbhir na da Abhann



Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 12:25:11 -0900

From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers


Meliora & Drake wrote:

> I don't have a copy of Hess yet, so if you could post these recipes I would

> be exceedingly grateful.  However, they do not specifically mention

> cornflowers.  I must be going mad, I am sure I read them specifically

> mentioned somewhere !!


> Lady Meliora.


To Pickle Cloue Gillyflowrs Cowslips Burrage & Marrigoulds

Clip your flowers clean from ye whites & cover them over in white wine

vinegar, sweetned with sugar, & shake ye glasses you put them in often,

& when you discover your pickle to shrink, add more to it.


Hess notes that these flowers brought a sour-sweet fillip (?) to the

winter table when pickled.


Anoter Way For Keeping of Flowers Which Is Accounted Better Then ye


Take yr flowers & shread them a little, then take about halfe a pound of

lofe sugar, & beat it small & put it in a pewter dish with a little

water. boyle it up to a candy height, then put in yr flowers, giveing of

them a stir together. when they are cold, put your flowers into papers

made into bagtgs, & hang them neer ye fire. when you use them, put to ym

a little vinnegar, & soe serve them up.


Hess counsels that not all pewter is able to withstand direct heat so

don't be tempted.  


Both these are from the Booke of Cookery, page 171, recipes 166 & 167.


The Booke of Sweetmeats has a description of candy height:


To Know When Your Sugar is at Candy Height

When yr sugar is at a candy height, which is the second height it comes

to, it will draw between your fingers in great flakes like bird lime,

and then it is at a just height eyther to candy or for any other things.


Hess comments that bird lime is a viscous sticky substance prepared from

the bark of holly and used to catch small birds.  In Old English, she

further states, it meant any adhesive, but now it is only poetic (OED).

She also comments that the temperature of this syrup is 220 degrees F.


Recipe from Booke of Sweetmeats, page 227, recipe 5.


Hope this helps.  Good luck.  Let me know how this turns out.  Our

flowers are long gone and currently sleeping under a blanket of snow.

I'm envious that you have a splash of color in November.


Lady Clare



Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:31 -0600 (CST)

From: jeffrey s heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu>

Subject: SC - an offering...


Good day.  I have recently fell upon a recipie from my cousin in Denmark,

and whilst I cannot vouche for any periodicity of the item, she said it

was a marmelade well worth the trouble.  Having seen some non-periods

floating along, I thought this might be acceptable...


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------

Of course we have a recipe!  For every 750 g cleaned rose hips, you use 500

g sugar and 1/2 water and one teaspoonful of thickening agent.  You boil

the rose hips and the water for 20 minutes covered.  Then you add most of

the sugar (say 450 g of it) , stir to dissolve, and boil an additional 10

minutes or until the hips are tender.  Finally, you add the thickener (over

here it is called Melatine,

<<use a canning gelatin>>

mixed in with the remaining sugar.  Pour into jars

and the rest is obvious!!!  Good luck with it.  Be careful of the thorns

when picking the hips, and be sure to wear rubber gloves when you clean

them as those fibers are itchy!  We generally just cut the hips in half and

then remove all the seeds.  It is quite a bit of work!  In all, we had 3.2

kg of cleaned hips, which made about 7 liters of marmelade in all!!!!  I

brought a jar with to work today to eat with the traditional Friday morning

bread, and it disappeared very quickly!  So that is encouraging.



Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:16:58 -0800

From: "James L. Matterer" <jlmatterer at labyrinth.net>

Subject: SC - Fritelles


177. (Clary Fritters): Take the herb called clary and grind it, steep it

in pure water and beat well sieved flour into this; add in some honey

and a little white wine and beat these together until smooth; then fry

small spoonfuls of this mixture in oil, as is done for fritters, and put

rosemary generously on each fritter; squeeze your fritters between two

blades to drain off the oil, then put them in a fine new pot beside the

fire. Dress them on a plate with sugar. (Le Viandier de Taillevent,

Terence Scully's edition, p. 297)


Scully says Clary is Clary Sage (Salvia sclarea) which "has tall

flowering spikes and a taste reminiscent of grapefruit." He also goes on

to say that the Liber de coquina has another version of the recipe that

"offers a broad choice in the matter of flavoring by specifying

elderflowers or any other flower."


I would prefer to use actual Clary in this recipe: does anyone know of

availability or a viable substitute?



Huen/Jim Matterer




Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:12:19 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: SC - viola, pansies, etc.


An interesting (but very modern) book is Cathy Wilkinson Barash's

_Edible Flowers from Garden to Palate_. Published by Fulcrum Publishing.

Golden, CO. 1995 ISBN 1-55591-246-1. Lots of pictures.


Do any of the modern herb books include flowers?





Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:20:57 +1000

From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Food Question: Squashes and Gourds


Zucchini flower recipies as promised...

I think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I

haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food

paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know!


On the the food. First, you should understand that zucchini actually have

both male and female flowers. The male ones grow on tall thin stalks and are

more open.  The female ones grow on short fat stalks. Once they are

fertilised, the base of the flower swells, elongates and turns into... a



You can use the male &/or female flowers to stuff. To use the female ones,

you have to sacrifice your zucchini at baby stage, before the flower withers

and drops off. The baby zucchini look and taste nice anyway.


Try and stuff the flowers soon after you have picked them, because the

flowers close, making the process harder. If this isn't possible, store them

wrapped in damp paper towels in a plastic bag in the fridge.


To prepare, remove the cntre stamen, remove any insects :) rinse if

necessary and dry.


Stuffing 1 (for 12 flowers) Mix together:

1.5 cups ricotta

1 bunch chives, chopped

1 egg, beaten

4 Tbsp parmesan

Salt, pepper, nutmeg


Stuffing 2 (12 flowers):

60g mozzarella, diced

2 slices procuitto, diced


Stuffing 3 (12 flowers):

60g mozzarella, diced (or a mix of ricotta and mozzarella)

6 anchovy fillets, mashed


Use a teaspoon or piping bag to fill the flowers. You can just twist them

closed or tie them closed using a blanched (dipped in boiling water) chives

or strips of leek, or even kitchen string if desperate. Dip in batter (beer

batter, cornflour batter, etc*) and fry in olive oil. Drain, sprinkle with a

little salt and serve hot.


*A basic batter

2 eggs, separated. Beat the whites until rocky, mix the yolks with...

1/2 cup flour, and

4 tbsp cold water, then fold in the egg whites.


Hope you like them!





Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:58:24 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Squash flowers as period food


robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au writes:

<< think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I

haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food

paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know! >>


I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the flowers of white flowered

guords luffas, Italian Edible, Gooseneck, Bird's Nest) are no more than 1 inch

across unlike the flowers of New World squashes which can attain rather large

demensions. They would be next to impossible to stuff with anything. The

suggestion for substituting Zucchini for the actual guords indicated was

merely an attempt to offer a substitution that had a taste, texture and

appearance similar to the real thing. My apologies if that suggestionsd has

caused any confusion.





Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +1000

From: "HICKS, MELISSA" <HICKS_M at casa.gov.au>

Subject: RE: SC - Rose-Hips


> From:         Ray Nevin[SMTP:nevray at netspace.net.au]

> Does anybody have any recipes using rosehips - period or otherwise?

> There is too many to waste

> Sharon


There are plenty of recipes using Rose Hips in Elinor Fettiplace

(Renaissance cooking I know).  Also Martha Washington's too I believe.  If

you cannot get hold of these two, give me a call and I'll bring them with me

next time I visit your group.





Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0600 (MDT)

From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>

Subject: SC - 3 Rose-Hip Recipes


I have found the following book useful:


Rhode, Eleanour Sinclair, Rose Recipes form Olden Times, Dover, 1973, 95p.

ISBN: 0-486-22957-2


Sauce Eglantine for mutton from Balmoral Castle (may be OOP)


Briar rose hips


lemon juice


Remove all seeds from the hips and then make a puree of them with as

little water as possible.  Sweeten to taste and add a little lemon juice.


Rose Hip Marmalade


wild rose hips



To every pound of rose hips allow half a pint of water.  Boil till the

fruit is tender.  Pass through a sieve fine enough to hold back the seeds.

To each pound of pulp allow a pound of sugar.  Boil till it jellies.



To Make a Tart of Rose Hips (Robert May, 1671)


Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and

season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart and bake it

scrape on suger and serve it in.



Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:01:13 -0400

From: Susan Wensel <sewensel at bellatlantic.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Rose-Hips


I have developed a rather lovely butter using rosehips and honey for flavor.

Unfortunately, my school of recipies uses rather subjective terminology, so you

may have to experiment a little to get it to work out.


Bring several tablespoons of rosehips to a boil in about a cup to a cup and a

half of water.  Simmer until the rosehips soften.  Strain, reserving the water.

Using a hand potato masher (use a strong one), mash the rosehips.  Push the

mashed rosehips through a strainer to remove the seeds.


Take butter out of your fridge to soften.  When the rosehips are mashed and

cooled, and the butter soft enough to work with, blend 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of

rosehips to a stick of butter.  Add a little honey to sweeten and make the

butter a little more pliable.


Be careful not to use too much rosehip or the butter may separate.  You can

beat it back together, but that's a serious pain in the neck.





Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:32:49 EDT

From: Seton1355 at aol.com

Subject: SC - REC; Rose Petal Preserve


I am passing along this recipe for rose petal preserves.  It comes from a

German woman on my Jewish list.  I haven't tried it but tuck it away til next

year's rose petal crop comes in,



-Unboiled rose preserves-


2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals


In a jar or clay pot, place one layer of sugar, one layer of rose

petals and so on until the jar is full. Take care to have a layer of

sugar on top. Place 2-3 rounds of white paper on top. Tie the jar with

two layers of cellophane and some white paper and keep in a cool, dry

and dark place. This makes delicious rose preserves.



Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:48:43 EDT

From: Seton1355 at aol.com



Here's another rose preserve recipe from my Jewish group.



<< **************

Rose preserves

(Dulceatza de trandafiri)


2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 3/4 qt/3/4 l water, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals with

white parts removed, juice from 1 lemon


Set the sugar and water to boil with the lemon juice until well

thickened. During boiling, keep removing the foam until the syrup is

clear. While the syrup is boiling, sprinkle some lemon juice onto the

rose petals and rub with your hands. When the syrup is thickened, add

the rose petals and simmer. Place into jars when cold.



Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:24:19 -0500

From: Wajdi <a14h at zebra.net>

Subject: SC - Advice on copyright, please


I recently obtained a copy of Rose Recipes from Olden Times, by

Eleanour Sinclair Rohde, published by Dover Publications, Inc of

New York.  This is "an unabridged and unaltered republication of

the work first published by Routledge in 1939 under the title

Rose Recipes."  It appears to be a collection of recipes using

roses from various older sources, including Delights for Ladies,

Sir Hugh Platt, 1594; Askham's Herbal, 1550; The Treasurie of

Hidden Secrets & Commodious Conceits, John Partridge, 1586; and

The Good Housewife's Handmaid, 1585.  I can find no copyright

listed at all anywhere in the book.  Its a paperback, of 95

pages, and interests me greatly.  So, my question is; is this

material considered public information and can I post recipes to

the list without worries?  Or do I have to keep it to myself?  I

really don't know about this copyright stuff.





Subject: RE: Crystallized Rose Petals

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:44:52 -0700

From: Becky McEllistrem <beckymc at MICROSOFT.com>

To: "'atlantia at atlantia.sca.org'" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>


Actually this is easily resolved nowadays by calling your florists ahead of

time and explaining what you're doing.  A friend of mine called several in

our town and found two that sold organically grown, chemically free flowers.

I think decorating cakes with real flowers is getting to be a popular enough

idea that modern larger florists are beginning to take note.




-----Original Message-----

From: Joyce A. Baldwin [mailto:jocetta at pobox.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 5:32 AM

To: The Merry Rose

Subject: Re: Crystallized Rose Petals


>>crystallized rose petals as a garnish.  Does anyone out there know how

>>this is done?

>Joyce A. Baldwin


A "just in case" warning -- do not use commercial roses!  They are sold for

decoration only and are rather heavily treated with various insecticides

and fungicides that are poisonous if eaten.  If you haven't grown them

yourself, make sure you know whether or not they have been treated with any

chemicals. (This issue came up on the Eastrealm list a few years ago).




Lady Jocetta Thrushleigh of Rowansgarth

Exchequer, Canton of Buckston on Eno



Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:11:24 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Rosee or Morree


lcm at efn.org writes:

<< The beautiful rose bush along the side of

the house produced copious amounts of blooms- that were vile to taste! >>


What sort of vile? Bitter? You have to remove all of the white part of the

petal before using to remove the bitterness. Rose petals without the white

part really have little or no taste to them except, well, roses if they are

species roses. Tea roses and hybrid roses also have little or no flavor if

the bitter white part of the petals are removed. I use both copiously and

often when they are blooming, both for salads and as a soup/stew ingredient.





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:18:25 -0500

From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com>

Subject: RE: SC - Rosee or Morree


I gave my friend Wulfric a pair of rosebushes about two years ago -- a

damask and a moschata, both dating from the 1500's.  The moschata bloomed,

and produced the sweetest cream colored blossoms you could imagine.  He used

them to make rosee, and it came out as a most fragrant, cream-colored

pudding. He had to pluck the flowers on the day they bloomed, or else they

would turn brown and wilt, but he was able to keep them fresh in a small

tupperware container in the refrigerator until he had enough to experiment



Rose :)



Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:48:05 -0600

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>

Subject: Daylilies (Was SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills)


Marian Rosenberg asks:

>>>The yellow flower with the raised center bit thingy that also comes in

miniatures that you see in the grocery store is a daffodil.  However,

I've got the wrong name.  I'm thinking of the orange/yellow flower with

the streaks of color down the center of the petal, saffron colored

pollen. Tastes like fresh lettuce.  Anyone have any clue what I'm

talking about?<<<


I can't imagine your mystery flower being anything but a member

of the genus Hemerocallis, probably species fulva, variety 'Europa'.

This is the common wild or Tawny Daylily.  The other period variety

is Hemerocallis flava, the Lemon daylily (named for the colour, not the

taste incidently). These varieties are completely edible and most

delish (as are ALL daylilies, but most are too beautiful to eat).  

They are even period, being introduced from the Russias to western

Europe in the mid 16th century.  Also they were certainly a food

source in the wild state in their native Trans-Caucus regions by farm

dwellers (though not likely the nobility, such as there existed then after

Ghengis Khan and his boys trashed the place several times over).


These plants are a veritable grocery produce department by

themselves.   The orientals prefer the fresh blossoms; likely

you encountered these in some oriental salad or cookery to be

asking.   The spent flowers (they DO only last a single day you

know) are also quite edible; even though closed and limp, they

impart a wonderful flavour to soups and make it slightly gelatinus

like okra.


Try this if you can get a quantity of withered blooms this spring

(the extra fancy blooms will be ok too):

Saute 1/2 pound fresh pork cut into bite size pieces, until nicely

browned. Add 1 quart water, 2 tablespoons of soy sauce and

1 teaspoon salt.  Cover and simmer slowly for an hour until the

pork is very tender.  Replenish water as it boils away to the original

level. Add 1 tightly packed cup of withered (yesterday's) blossoms

and 1 teaspoon of monosodium glutamate.  Cook a few minutes

more until the blossoms are tender.  Serve with steamed rice and

green tea; the pork and blossoms with the rice.  Serve the liquid

as a soup with fresh petals for garnish.  Elegant!


This recipe comes from Euell Gibbons (the wild foods guru who

died of stomach cancer ironically enough).  I would very much

suggest that  cooks experienced in oriental cuisine can greatly

improve this recipe with there own versions.  MSG.  Uggh!

You can probably cut down the salt a lot too.  Gibbons was

not renowned as a great chef; he just ate a lot of unusual things.


The blossoms may be dried and stored for later use also if

you like them. The unopened buds are IMO the best phase of

this vegetable. Boil them for about as long as you would some

large asparagus shoots, drain and saute lightly in butter; or just

butter them drained directly  from the boiling water.  They are

better than the finest french greenbeans.   Even more

recommended (by Gibbons) are the young and crisp flower

stalks as they shoot up about a foot high or so.  They are

reputed to be better than asparagus and are prepared the

same way.  I have never had the will to do this as it forfeits

a month of lovely flowers renewed every day from each stalk

sacrificed from the garden.  However, if I come across a

hidden wild patch sometimes, that is another matter.

Tawny daylilies are sterile triploids and reproduce by

underground runners which may be dug and  prepared as if  

they were costly blanched white asparagus shoots.  The

plant roots have many small tubers from 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter

which may be harvested in any season; washed, pared of

small rootlets (but not peeled); then boiled in salt water for

15 minutes.  Season as you would potatos or hominy.

The lemon daylily tubers are better than the tawny (I have

this on authority of my gophers who regard the Lemon root

system as the finest delicaces). In spring, daylily tubers are

very crisp and snowy white and can be put in salads as a raw

vegetablelike water chestnuts.  Don't feel like a vandal in the

garden when eating them though; enough will be left in the

ground to actually increase the number of plants you will have

next season. The older plants benefit from a good thinning

and bloom all the more heavily for it too.  A last suggestion

I offer is to dip the fresh blossoms in a rich egg batter and

serve them piping hot as flower fritters.  A splash of good

Vermont maple syrup and you have a fine breakfast sweet dish.


Anyone have any Asian or eastern European documentation

on period comsumption of daylilies?  They were first listed in

Lobel and Pena (HISTORIA) in 1570 under the name Asphodelus

luteus liliflorus (Lemon daylily) and by Lobel in 1576 as

Liriosphodelus phoeniceus (Tawny daylily).


Akim Yaroslavich



Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:45:49 -0500 (EST)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - Violet Recipes


Greetings. Here are a bunch of violet gleanings from various

sources. Note the use of gum arabic.  Many of the ones I didn't

copy are for violets solidified in a chunk of sugar, probably making

the violet unrecognizable since hot sugar and a delicate violet work

hazards on the flower.  -- Alys Katharine


Martha Washington's _Booke of Cookery_:


"To candy flowers in theyr naturall culler"  (#S85) ñ "Take ye flowers with theyr stalks, & wash them in rose water, wherein gum arabeck is dissolved. then take fine searced sugar, & dust it over them. & set them A drying in a sive, set in an oven. & (they will) glister like sugar candy."


"To candy violet flowers" (#S86) ñ "Take violets which are new & well cullered. weigh them, and to every ounce of flowers take 4 ounces of very white refined sugar, & dissolve it in 2 ounces of water soe boyle it till it turn to sugar again, & scum it very often that it may be very clear, then take it of & let it coole. after, put in yr violet flowers, stiring them together till ye

sugar grow hard to ye pan. yn put them in a box & keep them to dry in a stove.


_A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen_, printed by John Haviland, 1636.


"To candie all manner of flowers in their naturall colours" ñ "Take the Flowers with the stalks and wash them over with a little Rose-water, wherein Gum-arabecke is dissolved; then take fine searced Sugar, and dust over them, and let them a drying on the bottome of a Sieve in an Oven, and they will gilster as if it were Sugar-candie."


_The Ladies Cabinet_, 1655


"To candy all kinde of Flowers as they grow, with their stalks on." (#40) ñ "Take the Flowers, cut the stalks somewhat short, then take one pound of the whitest and hardest sugar you can get, put to it eight spoonfuls of Rose-water, and boil it till it will roul between your finger and your thumb; then take it from the fire, cool it with a stick, and as it waxeth cold, dip in all your

Flowers, and taking them out again suddenly, lay them one by one on the bottom of a sieve; then turne a joyned stool with the feet upward, set the sieve on the feet thereof, cover it with a fair linne cloth, and set a chafingdish of coals in the middest of the stool, underneath the sieve, and the heat thereof will run up to the sieve, and dry your Candy presently; then box them up, and they will keep all the yeer, and looke very pleasantly."


_The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell_, Thomas Dawson, 1597.


"To make sirrope of Violets" ñ "First gather a great quantity of violet flowers, and pick them cleane from the stalkes and set them on the fire, and put to them so much Rosewater as you thinke good, then let them boile altogether untill the colour be forth of them then take them of the fire and straine them through a fine cloth, then put so much suger to them as you thinke good, then set it against the fire until it be somewhat thick, and put it into a violl glasse."


_A True Gentlewoman's Delight_, W.I., Gent., 1653


"To make Oyle of Violets." ñ "Set the Violets in Sallade oyle, and strain them, then put in other fresh Violets, and let them lye twenty dayes, then strain them again, and put in other fresh Violets, and let them stand all the year."



Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:20:08 +0100

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills


>From Gerard's Herbal - Marigold - pages 738-741

"Calendula. Marigold.

The yellow leaues of the floures are dried and kept throughout Dutchland

against Winter, to put into broths, in physicall potions, and for diuers other purposes, in such quantity, that in some Grocers or Spice-sellers houses are to be found barrels filled with them, and retailed by the penny more or lesse, insomuch that no broths are well made without dried Marigolds."


I've heard Frank Purdue feeds his chickens calendula petals to give them

that nice golden color.


Regardimg Tagetes species ("French," "African," or "American" Marigolds --

the marigolds most often found in American flower gardens), Gerard thought

them to be poisonous because they smelled "ranke and unwholesome" and

because his cat allegedly died after eating some.


Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

cindy at thousandeggs.com



Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 06:31:45 EST

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills


LrdRas at aol.com writes:

> Calendula, which are quite tasty, are also known as pot marigolds.


> Ras


And they are VERY edible. Just don't confuse them with the African Marigold

so often used in modern landscaping. Even Gerard says they're poisonous. I

seem to remember him recounting a child dying from eating the then recently

introduced African marigold, and he did an experiment with a chicken or a dog

or something himself ... but alas my memory is poor and the book isn't at

hand. If anybody's interested I'll look it up.


Calendula however was used in soups and broths and was said to lighten the

heart of the person consuming it. I use in in a concoction I call "Bruise

Butter" mostly. Very popular in this neck of the woods.





Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:52:19 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets


'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks rather like a violet pudding?



Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29


Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th]


Elizabeth/Betty Cook



Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:08:26 -0600

From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets


> 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks

> rather like a violet pudding?


> Vyolette

> Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29

> Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper

> hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with

> Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or

> hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on

> y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th]

> Elizabeth/Betty Cook (well behind the list)


I have a question about this recipe.


Basically, here is my interpretation:

Take violet petals, boil them in water, press them dry, mince.

Add the minced petals to either Almond Milk or Cow's milk and

stir in amyndoun or rice flour. Put in enough sugar to make it sweet

or you can add honey if you prefer.


I'm not sure about the last sentence. I guess it can mean present

it so the flowers are represented above.

I would think this would be heated or boiled until it comes together

but no mention is made of heating the mixture. How does this become

pudding like? Is the rice flour enough alone to thicken it?

It sounds neat and a wonderful addition to something like a Queen's



I guess I'll have to try it myself.



Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:17:06 +1100

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Violet Sugar Plate Was Saxon Violets


david friedman wrote:

> 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks

> rather like a violet pudding?

> Vyolette

> Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29


I have just found another recipe for violets for the use in making 'marbled'

sugar plate in a book that I have been devouring (well not literally ;-)

Sugar Plums & Sherbet - The Prehistory of Sweets, by Laura Mason

ISBN: 0907325 831


For those interested in the book, it would make a nice addition to the library.

Author goes thru the history of sweets & reprints 'period' recipes from various

sources & then offers a redaction for some of them.  It is extensively footnoted

& sources quoted.  It is also a good book for those learning how to make candy

has it gives lots of technique info.


I have given some extra info included in the book about the making & use of

sugar plate in general for those interested & have copied the period & redacted

recipe at the end.  I would note that the period recipe calls for a number of

different edible flowers.  However, given the profusion of colours in violets,

if all you needed was differing colours for the marbled effect, you could just

use violets ;-)


<snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan>



Sugar plate could be coloured and scented with flowers.  By using the results

judiciously, it could be made to resemble fine marble as in the following recipe

by 'W.M' (1655)  'A Queens Delight', Facsimile 1984, Prospect Books, London.


"To make paste of flowers the colour of marble, tasting of the natural flowers:

Take every sort of pleasing Flowers, as Violets, Cowslips, Gily-flowers, Roses,

or Marigolds, and beat them in a Mortar, each flower by itself with sugar, till

the sugar become the colour of the flower, then put in a little Gum Dragon

steept in water into it, and beat into a perfect paste; and when you have half a

dozen colours, every flower will take of his nature, then rowl the paste

therein, and lay one piece upon another, in mingling sort, so rowl your Paste in

small rowls, as big and as long as your finger, then cut it off the bigness of a

small Nut, overthwart, and so rowl them thin, that you may see a knife through

them, so dry them before the fire till they be dry".


<snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan>





Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:14:58 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets


'Lainie wrote:

> Where are you? I'm in Western Oregon, and they're all over.


Not to quibble, but Lainie are you sure what are growing where you

are are true violets? I know that in California some people call

another plant, that is absolutely definitely not a viola family

member and lacks violet scent a "violet" because it's small and

purple (i don't know what it is, but it's a common ground cover,



If anyone is planning to try this, make sure you are getting true

violets. They are edible, as are their cousins the pansies, the

johnnie-jump-ups, the good king henrys, etc. although these lack

violet scent.


Anahita al-shazhiyya



Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:22:12 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets


Lainie wrote:

>Violas and violets are not the same thing- look similar, but not. Violas

>are more closely related to pansies, IIRC.


But violets ARE violas. Pansies and sweet violets are both types of

violae. Pansies, unfortunately lack the violet scent, but are quite

edible. I can buy boxes of mixed flowers in the supermarket.

Pansies/johnnie-jump-ups/good king henrys/heart's ease are in there

along with borage and nasturtiums and some other things that i

forget, to toss into salads or put on desserts or tea sandwiches.


Anahita al-shazhiyya



Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:00:00 EDT

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

Subject: SC - Growing Edible Flowers


   Considering our discussions on this topic recently, I thought this

newsletter from Burpee, the seed company, might interest some of

ya'll.............. :-)



                   Ldy Diana



Growing Edible Flowers

Adding flowers to food has long been a custom in many

cultures around the world. For centuries, Chinese cooks

have used lotus, chrysanthemum, and lily flowers or buds

in their recipes. Some flowers provide a nutritional boost

as well as flavor. Nasturtiums, for example, are high in

vitamins A, C (10 times as much as in lettuce), and D.

You may be growing an array of edible flowers in your

garden already without knowing it. If you grow calendulas,

chrysanthemums, dandelions daylilies, Johnny-jump-ups,

lavender, marigolds, nasturtiums, pansies, roses, scented

geraniums, squash blossoms, or sunflowers, you have an

edible flower garden.

Here are some tips for using the blossoms to add beauty,

pizzazz, and flavor to your meals.

1. Taste the flowers before you harvest them. The flavor

may vary depending on the plant, the soil, and weather

conditions. You may find flowers in one part of your

garden taste better than the same flowers in a different area.

In general, flowers that receive excess water will not be

2. Flowers are best used on the day they are picked. Gather

them in the cool of the morning after the dew has evaporated.

Choose flowers that are at their peak, avoiding those not yet

open and or wilted.

3. Wash flowers thoroughly and gently, and store them

between layers of paper towels. You can also place them

in plastic bags in the refrigerator until later in the day.

4. In most cases, the petals taste the best, so discard the

sepals and other flower parts inside the petals, such as the

pistils, ovaries, and stamens. You can eat the entire flowers

of Johnny-jump-ups, violets, honeysuckle, and clover.

Roses, dianthus, English daisies, Signet marigolds, and

chrysanthemums have a bitter white portion at the base of

the petal where it was attached to the flower, so remove

that before using them.

5. All edible flowers will enhance a salad, and many are

tasty in vinaigrette dressings. Add them to soups, pasta

salads, and stir fries before serving. Squash blossoms are

tasty battered and fried. For more recipe ideas, consult books

on edible flower gardening, such as Edible Flowers, by

Cathy Wilkinson Barash.

6. Lastly, some words of caution: Choose only flowers that

have been grown organically and have no pesticide residue.

Avoid florist flowers because they have likely been sprayed.

Do not eat flowers if you have asthma, allergies, or hay fever.

Question of the Week


Q. Which edible flowers can be grown in containers on a balcony?

A. Chives, lavender, Johnny-jump-ups, marigolds, nasturtiums,

pansies, and geraniums are only some of the edible flowers that

can thrive in containers. You might interplant them with herbs,

such as thyme, sage, and parsley, for added benefit.



From: RuddR at aol.com

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:28:42 EDT

Subject: Vyolette

To: masterhuen at egroups.com, mk-cooks at midrealm.org,

       owner-sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


The violets were blanketing my rock garden last week, and I decided to

harvest them.  I spent most of last Saturday picking violets and trimming

their petals off.  It was even more tedious than blanching almonds.  I hauled

out _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books_ and turned to:



Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper hem vppe

with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cowe Mylke, a-lye it with Amyndoun or Flowre of

Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte (th)er-to, or hony in defaute; coloure it

with (th)e same (th)at (th)e flowrys be on y-peyntid a-boue.

Harelian MS 279


This recipe gives choices for just about every ingredient.  I chose almond

milk and rice flour because I had almond milk I needed to use up, and

happened to have rice flour on hand. The "flowrys y-peyntid aboue" mentioned

in the recipe refer to the previous recipe, and were painted with saffron or

sandlewood. Why anyone would further color this lovely lavender pudding with

yellow or red is beyond me. Although it it not specifically mentioned, I

chose to simmer the almond milk and rice flour in order to aid thickening and

cook the flour.  One might consider using the violet colored water left after

boiling the petals to use making the almond milk.  Here is my redaction:


2 C violet petals, trimmed and rinsed.

1 C water

1 1/2 C unstrained almond milk

2 T rice flour

4 tsp sugar

1/4 tsp saffron, optional


1. In a saucepan, bring water to a boil.  Stir in violet petals, return to

the boil, stirring constantly, for one minute.  Drain the petals in a sieve,

and press out as much water as possible.  


2. On a cutting board, finely mince the boiled petals, and mash them to a



3. In a saucepan, over medium heat, bring almond milk to a boil, reduce

heat, and simmer, stirring frequently, for two minutes.  Stir in mashed

petals. Stir in rice flour, a bit at a time,  Stir in sugar and saffron.  

Continue to simmer and stir for five minutes.  Serve in individual small



Serves four.


It was okay; It had the consistency of thick oatmeal, and was pleasantly

sweet. The saffron, as well as changing the color from lavender to pale

yellow-green, added a saffron taste which covered up the delicate violet

taste it originally had.  Oh well, that's what the primary source said to do,

and we've got to take them at their word.  Using strained almond milk or cow

milk would have given it a smoother texture, but might have required more

rice flour to thicken it.  I don't know if I'll try it again next year at

this time; it was a lot of work.


Rudd Rayfield



Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 06:26:29 +0200 (MET DST)

From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>

Subject: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"


[Since my copy of Curye on Inglysch is at home no original will be given

at this time. Forme of Curye #179 if my memory is accurate]


Tried Sambucade with fresh flowers last night. Ate (parts of) it warm,

and the fresh elderflower-taste was a hit. Those of you who can get hold

of the flowers should try this; I'll be gathering a load of them and

freezing for future use.


Redacted recipie


500 g fresh cheese ("Kesella" for the one or two other Swedes here)

5 egg whites

sugar (app. 50 ml, went by guess and feeling)

rosewater (perhaps 1/2-1 T)

3-4 dl of fresh elderflowers (Sambucus <mumble>)

(pie shell)


Baked at 175 C until done (40 min, IIRC).



what to do with 5 egg yolks...

- --

Par Leijonhufvud                                      parlei at algonet.se



Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:39:57 +0200 (MET DST)

From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>

Subject: Re: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"


On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:

> and flowers.  I wonder if there is anyway to ship sprays of elderflower

> blossoms out fresh.  They are very easy to harvest.   Are y'all using the

> recipe in Pleyn Delight?  


Forme of Curye. Number hundred-and-seventy<mumble>.


> When I made it last time, the flowers made a l ovely pattterning

> across the top of it.  You prefer to eat It warm??  I like it

> chilled like a cheesecake.


I tried the leftovers chilled last night. Prefered it warm. It falls

(IMHO) in the same category as lemon curd; good cold but divine warm.

The original doesn't mention chilling, just serving, so I would not

guess that either is impossible.





Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:58:55 -0700

From: "Browning, Susan W." <bsusan at corp.earthlink.net>

Subject: RE: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"


Personally, I didn't care for the dried elderflower taste.  The basic

cheesecake with orange flower water instead of rosewater was very good



Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt



Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:43:17 +0200

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - Help finding an Elderflower Tart Recipe


<< Does anyone know where I can find an Elderflower Tart Recipe?? >>


- -- Anonimo Veneziano

   #99 torta (additional #27: fritelle, #71, #72 sambugado)


- -- Cuoco Napoletano

   #135 torta (additional #173: fritelle)

   Scully mentions a further recipe in:


- -- Forme of Cury #179


- -- Maestro Martino

   + Riva del Garda #148 torta, additional #184, #192 fritelle

   + Urb.Lat has recipes for torta, minestra and fritelle


- -- Platina VIII 32 Torta Sambucea (Elderberry Pie; "...elder flowers")


- -- Not a tart, but an interesting recipe in Rumpolt: Take the

elderflowers on the stalk (?), wash them and put them into a hot, sweet

dough, then cook them in hot fat and put sugar onto it (the German text

is online in the 'Gebackenes'-chapter of Rumpolt; #13). I heard that

this is still made in Bohemia today.


There are many recipes for _Holdermus_ in the German corpus, e.g. #38 in

the Sabina Welserin cookbook, to mention a recipe, where you have not

only the original, but also a translation online. -- There is a recipe

for elderflower honey in the cookbook of Goethe's grandmother from 1724

"Holler Honig zu machen" ... but I begin to digress.





Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:42:37 EDT

From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Help finding a recipe??


DeeWolff at aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can find an Elderflower Tart Recipe??


> Does anyone have a favorite of above??


> Andrea




Korrin S. DaArdain

Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com




        From Twelfth Night Feast In The Crown Province of ÿstgardr, East

Kingdom A.S. XXIX (A.D. 1995) by Phil Troy (Gideanus Adamantius)

(troy at asan.com)

        "Sambocade. Take and make a crust in a trap & take cruddes and

wryng out ˛e wheyze and draw hem ˛urgh a straynour and put hit in ˛e

crust. Do ˛erto sugur the ˛ridde part, & somdel whyte of ayren, & shake

˛erin blomes of elren; & bake it vp with eurose, & messe it forth."

        Curye On Inglysch, Book IV, Forme of Cury, ed. Constance B.

Hieatt & Sharon Butler, Oxford University Press, Oxford 1985.

        Two departures from a fairly simple recipe: Eurose, eau rose, or

rose water, has been replaced with the liquer Sambuca Romana. Like this

cheesecake, it is flavored with elderflowers, and we happened to have

some on hand. The second departure is less capricious. Somdel whytes of

ayren, or egg whites, were replaced with whole eggs. While this detracts

from the whiteness of the cake, it means that I don't have to come up

with a use for four hundred egg yolks. In any case, the dried

elderflowers we used, which were yellowish in color, floated to the tops

of the cakes, giving them a sort of mustard color, anyhow. The presence

of yolks also gave the middle of the cakes a somewhat custardy texture,

and a richness they would otherwise lack. We also, after a bit of

tinkering, added some heavy cream to the filling, partly to keep the

yolks from curdling in the oven, and partly because, well, just because.


        45 prebaked open pieshells

        40 pounds Ricotta cheese

        4 quarts heavy cream

        200 eggs

        8 pounds sugar

        8 ounces Sambuca

        10 ounces dried elderflowers

        Scaled down for eight servings:

        1 prebaked open 9-inch pieshell

        1 pound ricotta cheese

        1/2 cup heavy cream

        4 eggs

        2/3 cup sugar

        1 ounce Sambuca or 1 Tbs rosewater

        4 Tbs dried elderflowers (available at herb shops like Aphrodisia

           in Manhattan) or about 2/3 cup fresh elderflowers

        1 pinch salt

        The pieshell should be prebaked in a 350∞ F oven for about ten

minutes, and should not have browned. If using dried flowers, soak them

in the heavy cream for 10 - 15 minutes. Thoroughly mix the cheese, eggs,

sugar, Sambuca and salt. Add cream and flowers and mix again. Fill

pieshell and bake at 350∞ F for about 25 minutes. The filling will just

barely quiver (yes, like Jell-o) when it's done, instead of slopping like

a liquid when you shake it a bit. Or test with a toothpick, but by the

time the toothpick shows it done, it may overcook. The wiggle test is

better, especially if there are spectators. Eat at room temperature.




Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:44:43 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - platina feast


> Where does one get dried elderflowers and some of the other exotic

> ingredients?


Online herb shops have the dried elderflowers. I got some from pennherb

(www.pennherb.com) they aren't my favorite supplier, but they'll do.


Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       



Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:28:18 -0800

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I have a couple of questions that I suspect you guys may be able to  



In one recipe, I encountered a reference to "leavening"....from de Nola:


Oranges from Xativa Which Are Crullers


<snip – see leavening-msg>


Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry

Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get

these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know I

can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated with

insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get these...or

could I simply omit them.  The recipe calls for sprinkling rosewater

over the torte after it has baked, so it will get some of that flavor.

I don't know that I want to add rosewater to the ingredients for the

torte because it would be too watery.


Thanks in advance for your help/advice.





Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:01:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Kiri wrote:



> Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry

> Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get

> these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know I

> can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated with

> insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get these...or

> could I simply omit them.


I have seen dried rosebuds in the health-food store, amongst the herbs.  

The brand they carry is Frontier:



I have never tried cooking with these.  You'd probably want to  

rehydrate the petals.


Brighid ni Chiarain



Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:03:58 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Also sprach Elaine Koogler:



> Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry

> Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get

> these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know

> I can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated

> with insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get

> these...or could I simply omit them.  The recipe calls for

> sprinkling rosewater over the torte after it has baked, so it will

> get some of that flavor.  I don't know that I want to add rosewater

> to the ingredients for the torte because it would be too watery.


Actually, if it's warm from the oven (which is when things sprinkled

with aromatics are usually at their best), there's still going to be

all sorts of internal steam activity; a _small_ amount of rosewater,

even a few pumps of some kind of spray atomizer thingy, probably

wouldn't hurt. We're probably talking about less than 1/4 tsp of

rosewater here, so I doubt it would get watery. It might just take

the edge of some of the crispness, but not too badly, I'd think.

Another possibility, if you think it's appropriate, would be to get

some candied rose petals and garnish with those.





Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:39:50 -0500 (EST)

From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


You can get dried rose petals from an herb retailer (be sure to get

organic and/or food safe labelled ones), and refresh them in rosewater

and or water.


-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net"I am in a corner



Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:20:23 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Sbject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


The spice shop I'm now partnered with - thegoatinthegarden.com - is

still looking for a quality wholesale source for rose petals, but does

not currently carry them (I'll let you know when we get them in).


In the manwhile, if you're in the United States then you might want to

check with  Mountain Rose Herbs

[ www.mountainroseherbs.com ] which carries food-grade red and pink

roses. I been told that they're nice people and have a decent product.


- Doc


   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)




Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:22:06 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie

To: Coos within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


On 22 Apr 2004, at 22:06, Patrick Levesque wrote:

> Regarding the roses and rosewater; the red roses also contribute

> sgnificantly to the color of the dish. I wonder if they were added for

> color or for taste (or both? Even though cherries will give off a good

> color anyway...)

> Petru


I've used dried rosebuds from the health-food store as garnishes.  

They're food-safe, and are in the bulk herbs section.  The brand I bought was



Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom



Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:28:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Gilly water

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Someone had asked about what gilly water is. Gillies are the  

old-fashioned term for carnations. Actually, today's carnations are  

just bred-up gillyflowers. Old-fashioned gillies are smaller, with an  

intensely spicy fragrance, quite nice. They're traditional English  

cottage garden flowers. In Potter stories, gillywater is a drink, but  

the flowers do have a history of being used as a flavoring in wines and  

ales. From the 1911 Encyclopedia:


GILLYFLOWER, a popular name applied to various flowers, but principally  

to the clove, Dianthus Caryophyllus, of which the carnation is a  

cultivated variety, and to the stock, Matthiola incana, a well-known  

garden favorite. The word is sometimes written gilliflower or  

gilloflower, and is reputedly a corruption of July-flower, so called  

from the month they blow in. Henry Phillips (1775-1838), in his Flora  

/iistorica, remarks that Turner (1568) calls it gelouer, to which he  

adds the word stock, as we would say gelouers that grow on a stem or  

stock, to distinguish them from the clove-gelouers and the  

wall-gelouers. Gerard, who succeeded Turner, and after him Parkinson,  

calls it gilloflower, and thus it travelled from its original  

orthography until it was called July-flower by those who knew not  

whence it was derived. Dr Prior, in his useful volume on the Popular  

Names of British Plants, very distinctly shows the origin of the name.  

He remarks that it was formerly spelt gyllofer !

and gilofre with the o long, from the French giroftde, Italian  

garofalo (M. Lat. gariofilum), corrupted from the Latin Caryophyllum,  

and referring to the spicy odour of the flower, which seems to have  

been used in flavouring wine and other liquors to replace the more  

costly clove of India. The name was originally given in Italy to plants  

of the pink tribe, especially the carnation, but has in England been  

transferred of late years to several crucifrous plants. The gillyflower  

of Chaucer and Spenser and Shakespeare was, as in Italy, Dianthus  

Caryophyllus; that of later writers and of gardeners, Maithiola. Much  

of the confusion in the names of plants has doubtless arisen from the  

vague use of the French terms girofte, crillet and violette, which were  

all applied to flowers of the pink tribe, but in England were  

subsequently extended and finally restricted to very different plants.  

The use made of the flowers to impart a spicy flavour to ale and wine  

is alluded to by Chaucer, !

who writes:


And many a clove gilofre To put in ale ;


also by Spenser, who refers to them by the name of sops in wine, which  

was applied in consequence of their being steeped in the liquor. In  

both these cases, however, it is the clove-gillyflower which is  

intended, as it is also in the passage from Gerard, in which he states  

that the conserve made of the flowers with sugar is exceeding cordiall,  

and wonderfully above measure doth comfort the heart, being eaten now  

and then. The principal other plants which bear the name are the  

wallflower, Chei rant hus Cheiri, called wall-gillyflower in old books;  

the dames violet, Hesperis matronalis, called variously the queens, the  

rogues and the winter gillyflower; the ragged-robin, Lychnis  

Flos-cuculi, called marsh-gillyflower and cuckoo-gillyflower; the  

waterviolet, Hottonia pal ustris, called water-gillyflower; and the  

thrift, A rmeria vulgaris, called sea-gillyflower. As a separate  

designation it is nowadays usually applied to the wallflower.





Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:58:02 -0700

From: "Jill Brown" <ldygab at msn.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: peppermint

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Oh, I agree....pinch your flowers, so you get bushier plants, but by all

means, don't get rid of them...nasturtiums, johnny jump ups (small pansy),

pansies, viola, feverfew, mint, calendula...the list goes on and on....one

thing I used to do w/tulips is cut the stamen, etc, out and fill the petal

bowl up w/choc mousse...haven't in years, but pretty and fun....I would put

them in salads and even vegetable dips, on cakes, etc.


Have fun...experiment...I am at work, but I can give you a couple book

recommendations for cooking w/edible flowers...





Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:59:56 -0500

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I would like to recreate the wonderful Scotch flower liquer that I

tasted at the MKCC.  I've managed to find all of the ingredients except

the dried marigold flowers.  I find people selling the stuff in the UK,

Australia and Bulgaria...but none that is food grade in the US.  I am

assuming that, like roses, you need to make sure that poisonous sprays

weren't used on the flowers, so the ones that are dried for floral use

wouldn't work, right?  Does anyone know where in the US one might find

such a thing?  Or...if I can't find them in the US, how would it work to

omit them.  The listing I have calls for lavender, rosehips, and

elderflower...all of which I've been able to find.





Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:30:41 EST

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


ekoogler1 at comcast.net writes:


I would  like to recreate the wonderful Scotch flower liquer that I

tasted at the  MKCC.  I've managed to find all of the ingredients except

the dried  marigold flowers.



First things first... you may already know this, but what you're looking  for

is Calendula officinalis , not Tagetes erecta or Tagetes patula. The former

is European and edible, the latter is Mexican in origin, and according to

most authorities, poisonous. But both are called Marigold. Calendula is also

referred to as pot marigold. Either can be found dried, but the former you will

find in herb shops or natural food stores with bulk bins. The latter in flower

shops perhaps, if not growing in someone's yard <G>.


Just a heads up in case.





Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:56:44 -0500

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Sue Clemenger wrote:

> That would be calendula officianalis, then.  Look online for places that do

> herbal supplies for remedies, lotions, soaps, etc.  I know they're out

> there, I just don't have the bookmarks any more. ;-(

> --maire


Thanks! I just ordered some from a company in Canada called

Gaia...price seemed fairly reasonable, but I suspect I'll wind up with a

lot of the dried herb!  And, given their Web site, I suspect that they

might not be happy with my using it to make a cordial!  Oh well.


Your advice was quite helpful.  Where I had originally "googled" on

marigold, doing it using the scientific name brought me precisely the

information I needed.





Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 23:07:35 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes with flowers?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


Quick and easy.

Go to www.medievalcookery.com and search under rose


numerous recipes-- several not rosewater...


Also search under flower





Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:

We are doing a public demo tomorrow night at an event whose theme is  

"Blooming", and I was wondering if people can give me links to any recipes with  

flowers in them.  It will be easier for me to print out links than look in  books with such short notice.  Not expecting to have time to actually make  anything.

Brangwayna Morgan



Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:08 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:03 PM, KristiWhyKelly at aol.com wrote:


<<< Has anyone had experience with elderflowers?  I've ordered dried  

ones years ago and I remember them as almost too fragrant.  My Adams  

elderflower finally flowered this year, and I wonder if I need to do something with them, like dry them.  Fresh, they have no scent nor flavor.


Any ideas?  Or do I just hold out for the berries? >>>


The flowers are good in sambocade, which is a 14th-century English  

cheesecake variant flavored with elder flowers. The recipe doesn't  

specify that they be dried, but it seems like it works much better with  

dried flowers. Basically it's fresh white curd cheese, egg (whites  

only), the flowers and a little sugar in a crust.





Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:40:33 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


They also appear in a variety of other places.

38 To make elderflower pudding. Take elder flowers, boil them in milk

and strain them, make a firm dough from eggs and flour and roll it into

a thin flat cake, cut it into the shape of little worms and put them

into the milk, salt it and put fat into it and let it cook. *Das

Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin. *Germany, 16th century - V. Armstrong, trans.


LXXV - Elderflower confectionery. Pick the flowers off the twigs. Put

them in the sun so that they're well dry. Take honey in a pot and boil

to make them well dry. Add to it pepper, ginger, cloves, nutmeg flowers

and cinnamon. This confectionery can be used to several roasts. *Koge Bog*

(Denmark, 1616 - Martin Forest, trans.)







Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:16:57 -0400

From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


And I've made a wonderful cordial using scotch, elderflowers, rose hips,

lavender and pot marigold.  I don't have a period recipe for it, but it's

wonderful stuff.





Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:39:57 -0700 (PDT)

From: tracey sawyer <tfsawyer at yahoo.com.au>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] clove pinks

To: lochac at lochac.sca.org


Bianca asked: snip> But are the flowers - whatever sort - edible?? Or are they just meant to be admired and scooped off? <endsnip>


The honeysuckle site (from Aylwen) says: <snip>

The fresh petals are spicy flavoured and edible. They are used to decorate salads (an Elizabethans delight), to decorate open faced sandwiches, to scatter over desserts, to flavour sweet butter (chop finely and add to unsalted butter, then wrap in a sausage shape with plastic cling film and store in the refrigerator) used to spread on warm scones and pikelets, and to add fragrance to mulled wines and cordials (another Elizabethan indulgence). The intensely fragrant flowers are delightful in posies and for use in buttonholes. All varieties are long-lived perennials, requiring a sunny position. They are ideal for edging paths, for rockeries, and to grow in garden pots where you can enjoy their fragrance.? <end snip>


So yes, edible... further down their page there is a variety of pinks called "sops-in-wine" which dates from the 1400s....





Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:47:56 +1000

From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] clove pinks

To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>


Pick the blooms as close to serving time as possible. Time and heat can

diffuse their heady fragrance, so pick early on hot days. Refrigerate

blooms if you must hold them for more than a short time. Gently pull off

the petals just before serving. Scatter the petals in a salad or over a

dessert; add as garnish to a vegetable or fruit plate or as confetti

down the center of the dining table. Be sure to remove the bitter white

bottom from clove pinks' petals before serving them.



Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:27:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)

From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage


K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote:

<<< In our community garden, with 2 bee hives, I foster borage anywhere it isn't in the way of plantings or walking around. Then it goes into my compost pile. I don't want to discourage reproduction. The same goes for poppies, nasturtiums and purslane. Let it grow until it is a problem. This last year I let a patch of nasturtiums get too full and it stunted a couple of tomato plants. While the flowers were beautiful, I really wanted the tomatoes! >>>


Nasturtium flowers are edible and a beautiful addition to a salad. The pale green flower buds can be picked at the end of the summer, pickled, and used like capers. And the leaves can be eaten while young. They can be used in salads (although a salad entirely of them might be a bit too spicy), cooked as almost any greens, and i've run across recipes for nasturtium leaf pesto. I've also seen recipes for dolmades made with more mature nasturtium leaves.


Nasturtiums are no replacement for tomatoes, but they can do more than look bright and cheerful in a garden.


Someone sometimes called Urtatim


<the end>

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