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herbs-msg - 2/5/12

 

Herbs used in period and how they were used. Modern sources.

 

NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, herb-uses-msg, Herbs-Sm-Grdn-art, seeds-msg, lavender-msg, herb-mixes-msg, Basic-Herbs-art.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: evans at lvipl.csc.ti.com ("Eleanor J. Evans  at  462-5330")

Date: 11 Dec 89 18:13:27 GMT

Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

Pennyroyal is an effective flea repellent - I assume it would work on

ticks and mites, as well.

 

Eleanor MacNaughton

evans at lvipl.ti.com

 

 

From: EPSTEIN%KSUVM.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Emily Epstein)

Date: 10 Aug 90 21:38:00 GMT

Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

I checked a few references to reply to Owain of Shrewsbury's query of August

4:

 

>Is the herb Lemonbalm period?  I wish to use some instead of mint in

>sekanjabin just to see what it tastes like.  While I KNOW the use of it in

>sekanjabin isn't period (most likely) I simply want to try it for personal

>use. I've got access to lemonbalm (sp?) as it's growing in my backyard. Is it

>originally European or is it strictly a north american herb.

 

Milord, lemon balm (Melissa officinalis) is indeed of old-world origin, being

a Mediterranean native. It was grown by the ancient Greeks and Romans, and

was well known in south central Europe throughout period, under the names

Melisophyllon (Greek) or Apiastrum (Latin).

 

I have read (I forget where) that it was brought to Britain by the Romans, but

_Sturtevant's Edible Plants of the World_ (Dover, 1972, p.359-60) says it

didn't arrive in England until 1573, which seems awfully late. According to

Malcolm Stuart (_Encyclopedia of Herbs & Herbalism_, Crescent, 1987, p. 222)

it was used exclusively as a bee plant until the 15th century, when it was

used by the Arabs to treat depression, ans as a tonic. Carol Ann Rinzler (_The

Complete Book of Herbs, Spices & Condiments_, Facts on File, 1990, p.23-24)

places its medicinal and culinary use as early as 1000. Oh well, pick your

expert and take your chances. :-)

 

I hope you find the above useful. Yours sounds like a worthy experiment, and

I'd be interested to hear the results. Frankly, the omnipresent tea and

lemonade at feast get tiresome. In Calontir of late, ginger water, orange

water and sekanjubin (sp?) have been served with some success, but I'm

always looking for new alternatives.

 

Yours in service,

 

                        <=========>

Alix Mont de fer          |=======|

   (Emily Epstein)       |* * * *|

Shire of Spinning Winds    =====/

   (Manhattan, KS)           /

                            |||

epstein at ksuvm.ksu.edu         |

                            |||

                           /___

 

 

From: billmc at microsoft.UUCP (Bill MCJOHN)

Date: 21 Feb 91 17:43:00 GMT

Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA

 

CANNING at intellicorp.COM (Janet Canning) writes:

> It is spring and I would like to start a garden project.  I am lookin into

> a Medieval/Renaissance herbal garden and I'm blocked by mundane problems.

>

> 2-mundane book titles that specialize in Medieval/Ren gardens, history etc.

 

You may wish to consult _Plants from the Past_, by David Stuart and

James Sutherland (Penguin Books, 1987).  The authors are interested

in restoring and recreating gardens from various periods.  The book

includes a short chapter describing the principle characteristics

of gardens of various times, following the changing fashions from

the late middle ages through the nineteenth century.  The bulk of

the book is discussion of various genera (arranged alphabetically)

and their history in garden use.  It is principally aimed at the

English flower garden, but herbs and continental references show up,

too.

 

The authors also give a list of primary sources (e.g. John Gerard's

_Herball_ of 1597) and refer to these sources frequently in the

main text.  Finally, there is a short list of Further Reading.

 

All in all, this is a charming and informative book.

 

Another approach would be to simply read period writings (especially

recipes) looking for references to common plants.  I doubt that the

species forms of our common herbs (thymus vulgaris, salvia officinalis,

rosmarinus officinalis, lavandula angustifolia, nepeta cataria, the

various alliums) have changed much since the middle ages.  Herbs

simply haven't been subjected to the same intense breeding as flowers.

 

Roses, on the other hand...

 

I would certainly be interested in the results of your search.

Good luck!

 

Bill McJohn

billmc at microsoft

 

 

From: jane at STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Jane Beckman)

Date: 1 Nov 91 23:42:01 GMT

 

Gillyflower is also called "clove gillyflower."  Generally, it's Dianthus

caryophyllus---clove carnation.  For flavoring purposes, it's generally a

strongly spicy carnation.  In common vernacular, it can also refer to the

sweet-scented stock.

 

Turnsole or giresole is the "pot marigold," the calendula.  "Marigold

observes the sun/More than my subjects me have done." --Shakespeare

The petals are used for flavoring.  And very tasty with meat, I might add.

 

-Jilara of Carrowlea  [jane at swdc.stratus.com]

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)

Subject: Rhubarb

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 20:01:07 GMT

 

odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:

|>   PS:  Was rhubarb eaten in period (was it *known* in period)?  It's another

|>   one of those fun plants that has poisonous leaves.

 

Only as a laxative, in my reading. It's in most of the herbals.

 

Rhubarb needs *lots* of sugar for most people's taste. Sugar was very

expensive.

--

Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)

Subject: Re: Rhubarb

Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:32:32 GMT

 

        From what I found when documenting my rhubarb wine.  rhubarb

was used mainly as a medicinal herb in period and was not eaten as we

do now in pies, crisps and jellies until the early nineteenth century.

Alcoholic beverages using rhubarb as a flavoring or as the vegetable of

fermentation were known in period.  See Gerard's herbal.

-Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)

Subject: Re: Rhubarb's taste

Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:40:01 GMT

 

        In period Rhubarb was not eaten as it is now it was considered

a medicinal herb.  People often thought the whole plant was poisonous because

the leaves are. and some persons prone to gout cannot eat the stalk either

because of the high oxalic acid content.  Rhubarb did not come into real use

until the late eighteenth, early nineteenth century.  Prior to that it was

used as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, and medicinally as a laxative

and purifier.

-Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle

 

 

From: JLC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (JENNIFER CARLSON)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Kibbutzing (was Skirrets)

Date: 24 Nov 1993 11:28:59 -0500

 

Actually, salsify is both an Old World and New World plant.  _Tragopogon

porrifolius_, also called 'goat's beard', is indigenous to continental Europe

and the British isles.  'Meadow salsify', _Tragopogon pratensis_ is the North

American version.  

 

Yours in service,

 

Dunstana Talana the Violet

Northkeep, Ansteorra

Jennifer Carlson

Tulsa, Oklahoma

JLC at vax2.utulsa.edu

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period brewing and herbs...

Date: 25 Nov 93 13:14:42

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

Alecost was used for brewing, I've got some growing in my back garden,

but sadly I haven't any recipes. So if anyone knows what part it did

play let me know. I suspect it was used like hops are now.

 

The fruit of the service tree was used to make beer in england, and

pubs serving ale made from service fruit were called chequer pubs

because of the trees chequered bark. You can still find old pubs

called chequers which probably started out serving ale from the

service tree.

I have no idea if it had any medicinal properties, but I would

guess its an old beverage because service trees won't seed in our

currently cold climate, so the custom might date to when the country

was warmer a millenium ago? Nowadays the tree will grow from seed in

France but is infertile here where, though it can extend by suckers

from the root system.

 

When the queen got into the supers of my beehives she layed brood all

over the honey and the result was a bitter tasting honey. In medieval

beekeeping where the queen was not restricted in her movements about

the colony honey flavoured with bitter brood food would be common. We

used the honey to brew a spicy metheglin and it tasted quite good,

perhaps some of the metheglin recipes which use herbs or spices in

mead were a result of brewers making best use of their worst honey?

I suppose spices were quite expensive whereas herbs could be home

grown, so disguising a bad taste might be a more likely use for herbs

than spices?

 

Jennifer

Vanaheim vikings

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)

Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT

 

Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores?

 

Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder

flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas.  Also available in

bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc.

 

While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you

have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption.

 

--Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK

marian at world.std.com

 

 

From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: woad

Summary: wear to get it- good quality & good price

Date: Wed, 04 May 94 20:01:19 EDT

 

        Respected friends:

        Baroness Meghan ni Leine, when not busy being informative and

wonderful, also sells processed, purified, ready-for-use powdered Woad.

contact her C/O Linda Anfuso, Wilton, NH, 03082

        By the way- the blue part of the woad is not and never was any

sort of hallucinogen. The raw sap crushed from fresh woad leaves

_sometimes_ causes surface skin numbness, slight dizziness, and (in

certain bloodlines) a vague impression of less danger or more confidence.

No hallucinations- sorry about that, but Picts wearing woad charged

Romans wearing armor because they were like that, not because they were

'orf ther 'eads:->.

        It also requires you have one of the right half-dozen out of several

hundred subspecies/varieties of Woad plant to start with. In other words,

not much chance. And since any form of heating seems to destroy the whatever-

it-is completely, feel free to find something more likely to worry about.

        Like Black Widows in the privy.

                              Honour/Alizaunde

 

 

From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: juniper

Date: 10 Jan 1995 15:53:27 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln       

 

Alban listed juniper, juniper seeds, juniper berries, questionable.  I

wrote an article in Calontir's cooking guild newletter on juniper some

years ago.  This is mostly from memory, ask if you want the sources-

 

"Juniper" _Juniperus communis_ common juniper, is a

European tree/shrub.  As noted previously, the seeds are used to make

gin. The seeds were eaten--used as a flavoring--in Europe in the

Middle Ages.  It was also a medicinal herb (berries and leaves).

[Botanical detail: The berries are actually small fleshy

(seed-containing, pistilate) cones, this being a Gymnosperm].

It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb

today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant

women and anyone with kidney problems.  The USDA concluded there are

safer plants with the same medicinal effects.  In cooking, you'd use

only a few berries--STRONG flavor--so chances of harm low, but one

might not want to serve it to a feast.

 

   _J. communis_ is planted all over the US, and can be gathered from

plantings, or purchased.  My copy of Gray's Manual of Botany suggests

it has naturalized in the Eastern US, here in Nebraska we only have it

where its planted.

 

   The US has several native Junipers, "cedars" in our vernacular.  

I considered substituting them ('creative anachronism').

They differ from each other and from _J. communis_.  For example,

eastern red cedar _J. virginiana_ ranges from the Atlantic to nearly

the Rocky Mountains.  Since reports of Native Americans eating it are

few, but they used it medicinally, I conclude its generally too strong

for food.  The contrast is Rocky Mountain red cedar, _J. scopulorum_

which was widely used by tribes as a flavoring.  I think that could be

used to replace "juniper" in a Period recipe.   All three have

wonderfully similar medicinal uses, for example to make a vapor to be

inhaled for congestion as in a cold.

 

   My favorite Medieval tale of juniper, is that it would protect your

house from witches:  hang a branch over the door, the witch has to

count all the needles correctly to come in (so if you use a big

branch, you should be safe)

 

copy or the references.

 

Agnes deLanvallei

 

**Juniper berries are hot in the third degree, and dry but in the

first, being a most admirable counter-poison...Culpeper**

 

 

From: callred at carbon.cudenver.edu (Curtis L. Allred)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: juniper

Date: 10 Jan 1995 11:27:32 -0700

Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

 

Dearest Gentles, Greetings!

 

kathleen keeler (kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu) wrote:

 

            <article cut, portion included below>

 

        A most enriching article about Juniper!  One of my favorite

bushes/trees.

 

: It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb

: today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant

: women and anyone with kidney problems.  

       

        This piece of advice is very helpful, as I have

frequently eaten the fruit of the juniper on hikes in the outdoors, as

well as sharing it with others (I cannot think now if I have given some

to pregnant women--I hope not!).  The best way to eat it, I have found

is to select a female bush (there are male and female junipers, females

have berries, males don't), then find a nice, dark blue (the color of

brand-new Levis) berry.  Carefully hold it up to your teeth and

nibble the outside peeling, which has an incredibly sweet, sharp

taste, well worth the trouble of trying to perform this feat of

oral dexterity.  You may eat the innards of the berry, but it is

not as tasty and has lots of seeds.  

 

        Juniper berries are full of things that are good for ya

(vitamins, body tonic, etc), and so are good for pepping you

up when you are tired on a hike.  They also give your breath a

refreshing taste.  My experience is that junipers are MOST plentiful

out here in the Western US, where they grow very well in dry climates

and poor soils.  There is nothing as beautiful as a 100 year-old

female juniper tree out in the desert, providing shade and

protection from blizzards to the desert creatures that also

eat its berries.  A lot of people mistakenly know junipers as

cedars, but they are easily distinguished--cedars have fan-shaped

foliage, junipers don't.  Most trees and bushes that are juniper/

cedar-like are indeed junipers, although they are mostly called

cedars. And, it is the lowly juniper bush that gives gin its

unique flavor.

 

        Anyway, just a postscript to the wonderful article preceding this

one.

 

        --Hugh Makpease, the mercenary, who smells of elderberries

 

 

From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: period plants

Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 03:59:00 GMT

Organization: *Bucky's BBS* (609)861-1131

 

B>> berries(?), juniper seeds(?), juniper(?), jyllowflowers (red)

>>

>> that enough? <grin> the ones with question marks i'm not sure

>> about.

 

B>      Juniper (berries, seeds and leaves) can all be used to help mfg &

>flavor the alcoholic spirit gin...........    Can't help with the others,

>though........

 

Also found in many recipes such as pork roasts and helps add a gamey

flavor

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)

Subject: Re: Lets talk about herbs

Organization: Ask about rec.gardens.organic  :)

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 23:48:14 GMT

 

David Salley (salley at niktow.canisius.edu) wrote:

: Mandrake are now known by the modern name, Mayapples.  They affect deer the

 

   Nope! _American_ Mandrake (Podophyllum peltatum), a common North

American plant, is the Mayapple.  _European_ Mandrake (Mandragora

officiarum) is the historic mandrake and has no relation to the Mayapple.

(Mayapple is, however, extemely poisonous...even handling it can poison

you.) My plant books advise _not_ growing it, but say that it requires

partial shade and moist soil.

 

--Max

 

 

From: "E.Preston III & Shelly K Walker" <wf3 at icok.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Medieval spices

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:57:15 -0600

 

two books to try:

 

A Medieval Herbal and A Medieval Flower Garden.

Publishers Chronicle Books of San Francisco,

 

I got the herb book through a local Herb Farm who stays on the look out

for me. She also has found natural dye books. I'd look at the herb

stores first.

Britta the Red..

 

 

From: norseman at voicenet.com (Chip W.)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Help with Herbs...

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:12:38 GMT

 

lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote:

 

>What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb?

>Carlin the Blond of Eastwood

 

In all of my gardening and herb books (and I have a fair number), I

found only one reference, in Eyewitness Handbooks HERBS, by Lesley

Bremness. Here's the quote:

 

"ROSA RUBIGINOSA (syn. Rose eglanteria)  The dense growth of the Sweet

Brier, Shakespeare's Eglantine, with apple-scented leaves is good as

an aromatic hedge plant."

 

Note the spelling of sweet brier vs sweetbriar.  However, I would

guess that specialty rose catalogs would be a good place to start your

search (of course, I couldn't find my rose book - my house seems to

have swallowed it up).

 

Good Luck!

Linette de Gallardon

 

 

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy M Renfrow)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Help with Herbs...

Date: 19 Dec 96 19:16:06 GMT

 

lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote:

>

> What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb?

 

Sweetbrier is Rosa rubiginosa L. (aka R. eglanteria Mill.), also called

Eglantine, Hip-rose, Hip-Brier.

 

Try Penn Herb 1-800-523-9971, or Aphrodesia.

 

Yours in haste,

 

C. Renfrow

renfrow at skylands.net

http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/

 

 

From: Jean-Baptiste joule <jb-joule at worldnet.fr>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Herbs and spice online

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 11:08:52 +0100

Organization: SCT / Worldnet - Internet Provider & Information Exchange - Paris, France

 

Gentle Ladies, Lords and damsels,

I found THAT while surfing the NET

 

http://www.herbsinfo.com/default.htm

 

Those people have herbs online and also provide some sort of information

about their uses.

 

I haven't done business with them yet, though.

 

 

From: jahb at Lehigh.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Herbs

Date: 23 Feb 1997 23:28:46 -0500

 

>Need info on medicinal herbs in the middle ages.  Please e-mail me at

>Nyfain at msn.com.  Any help would be appreciated, son is doing a

>science project and is 3 weeks behind, (the halfling will sleep with

>the pigs from now on if he doesn't bring up his grade).  Medieval

>uses and potions and cures, whatever anyone has to offer, will be

>greatley appreciated and may save a young boy from a shortened life

>span.

>Nyfain

 

Try consulting "Magic Herbs" by Rosetta Clarkson, or any reputable herb book.

Off the top of my head-- mint for stomach troubles. Rosemary was burned and

lavender strewed in sickrooms to clear the 'noxious fumes.' Also consult

Culpeper's Herbal.

 

Jennifer Heise,                             Net: jahb at lehigh.edu    \

Senior Specialist, Web Management, LUIR     Phone:(610)758-3072   / /

Lehigh University, 8A E. Packer Avenue, Bethlehem PA 18015        \

 

 

From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net>

Subject: Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Date: 13 Apr 97 21:43:16 GMT

 

I was reading rec.gardens and ran across a book that might appeal to

Brother Cadfael fans--it's titled Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden.  If you go

here you can take a look at the cover.  Looks interesting, but not

cheap--it's a "coffee table" book.

 

http://british.books.american.prices.com/books/1650/1671midi.html

 

 

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt)

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:12 -0600

Subject: Re: SC - Carrots

 

Concerning wild carrots:  I think caution is somewhat advised.  Many of the

the wild relatives of the carrot are edible, but bear a very close look to

the more poisonous kin.  Lord Ras is correct in that be sure before you

eat. Most of the poisonous relatives of the wild carrot are nasty

smelling, and usually have purplish blotches on the stalks.  Here in

Ansteorra, wild carrot, wild parsley and hemlock can grow near enough to

each other to be confusing.  Also here are vast quantities of wild onion,

which have a companion plant called crow bane that looks very similar.  The

key is the smell.  I was fortunate enough to mundanely worked with a man

who wild plant foraged and learned a great deal about them.(He used to be

Society Master of Sciences early one)  He often ate things that I

personally wouldn't but were edible.  We rapidly had three lists of

plants... inedible, edible and gwilym edible.  His name in the SCA was

Master Gwilym the Smith.

 

Clare RSJ

 

 

From: "leslie vaughn" <leslievaughn at msn.com>

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 21:22:09 UT

Subject: RE: SC - any suggestions ??

 

Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have

documentation on.

Isabeau

 

 

From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:30:25 -0400

Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener

 

Mark Harris wrote:

> Isabeau said on Wed. April 16:

> >Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have

> >documentation on.

> Interesting. Can you give more information? Which part of the fennel plant?

> Was it chewed on straight or mixed in something? Or perhaps steeped?

>   Stefan li Rous

 

I think the seeds would be the logical part. I've eaten both wild andcultivated fennel, and the only thing part that really seems to have that effect is the seeds, except perhaps for large quantities of the leaves.In India fennel seed is commonly eaten after a meal both as a breath freshener and to avoid flatulence. Sometimes plain seeds are eaten,sometimes they are sugared as a comfit, and sometimes they are mixed with other spices, either in sugared or unsugared form. The sugared ones look and taste like tiny Good-'n'-Plenty candy.Adamantius

 

 

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:46:06 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener

 

I just put fennel into my garden and was rereading a section from an herbbook which stated that the stalks could be eaten aften a meal as a breath freshier.It might also be okay to candy them much like angelica stalks are candied and eaten as breath sweeteners. Normally the seeds are eaten.  People became very addicted to them  (I read a complaint somewhere about a woman who ate so many that she left a little trail of seeds everywhere.

 

Clare

 

 

From: "G. Sofsky" <dragons2 at algorithms.com>

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:37:50 -0400

Subject: SC - - Herb sources

 

I found these addresses in Sam Biser's Save Your Life Collection.  These

sources are for Pharmaceutical grade herbs but see no reason we can't use

them too.  I haven't received any catalogue's from them yet so I have no

idea on cost factor, what each one actually carries or how some of them

come. There are a few others that are wholesalers and will only sell to

people with a business license.  If there are any of you out there and you

want those references, email me and I'll give you their 800 telephone

numbers.

 

Herbal Sources

 

American Botanical Pharmacy

Dr. Schulze's herbal formula

P.O. Box 3027

Santa Monica, CA  90408

phone 310-453-1987

 

Pacific Botanicals

Noted as being the best source for organic and wildcrafted bulk herbs.

Wholesale, 1lb minimum, but will sell to Save-Your-Life readers.

4350 Fish Hatchery Road

Grants Pass, OR  97527

503-479-7777

 

Blessed Herbs

(their second choice for organic/wildcrafted herbs)

Barre Plains Road

Oakham, MA   01068

800-489-4372

 

Casaundra of the Wandering Dragons

dragons2 at algorithms.com

 

 

Date: 5 Aug 1997 08:39:19 -0700

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - saffron substitute

 

I just got a beautiful book called "Brother Cadfael's Garden"  based on the

mystery novels with the 12th Century monastic main character.  It appears to

be very good at researching the herbs and such used in this series of novels

and cross referencing them against period sources.  So far it has one of the

most complete and accesible encyclopedias of herbs with pictures that I have

found.

 

- -brid

 

 

Date: 7 Aug 1997 08:34:56 -0700

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Subject: Re: Re- SC - Advice, please!

 

and some more useless info from my herb library:

saffron crocus- crocus sativus (I have seen bulbs for order in some flower

catalogues!)

meadow saffron (common crocus?)- colchicum autumnale

false saffron (safflower?)- carthamaus tinctoris

 

fennel- foeniculum vulgare

anise (aniseed, sweet cumin)-pimpinella anisum

both were highly prized and used by the Romans.  Charlemagne in the 800's

had all the herbs in St. Gall's (anybody know where St. G's is?) monastery

planted on all of his royal estates- which spread both of these throughout

Europe. He also apparently said something to the effect of "these are good

and useful", making them and their use popular.

 

woo woo! Go Charlemagne!

- -brid

 

 

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:24:21 -0500 (CDT)

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Subject: Re: Re- SC - Spices

 

Stefan said:

>And what do you mean by licorice sticks?

 

       I think he means licorice roots which are long thin roots you can

chew on.  Locally, you can get alot of these herbs from the Herb Bar on W.

Mary (It's down south for a change)  Also Whole Foods and the ever popular

Central Market.

You extract the flavoring by steeping or making an infusion.  If you'd like

to do infusions come to he Herbalist's Guild in December.  We're gearing up

to do Medicinal herbs in December so I can let you know.

 

Clare St. John

 

 

From: SiFiFem at aol.com

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:27:47 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Sources for Woad

 

Stefan-

 

Please add these people to your source list of period herbs, spices and those

hard to find historical feast items.  They also carry woad and henna  as used

for body tattoo and henna painting.  They have been doing SCA on the west

coast for 12 years.    Their store is :  Dragonmarsh - 3744 Main St .-

Riverside, Ca 92501

- Phone is (909) 276-1116.     Thanks

 

 

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - A herb/spices question. . .

 

<< Having just moved some of the same bottles of herbs, spices and extracts

for the third time in two years I began to wonder if any of this stuff was

still good.  What is the average shelf life for seasonings? >>

 

For herbs, the average shelf-life is about 6 mths to a year before the flavor

deteriorates substancially. Spices depend on how they've been stored and

whether they are whole spices or ground spices. If they are bug and mold

free, taste or smell. If they appear to still be strong then use them. For

sauces and extracts, I would advise the same. I have had a quart bottle of

Fish Sauce from Thailand on my shelf for 11 years. It's still good.

Worchestershire also has an indefinate shelf life. While hot sauce tends to

go rancid after a year or so.

 

<< How can you tell when its time to get rid of them?  >>

 

When they get bugs in them, mold, turn colors and/or smell taste wrong. :-)

 

Lord Ras

 

 

Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:03:49 -0700

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Subject: Re: Fw- SC - A herb/spices question. . .

 

Spices last longer than herbs, especially if un-ground.  Both will last longer

if kept sealed air-tight and in a dark place. (Which makes all those pretty

spice racks with glass jars kinda a shame).  How long they last also depends

on how long they were in the store before you got them (random).  The only way

to know is to test them.  Taste them, smell them- when you find yourself

having to use "too much" of them in your regular cooking, it is time to get

new. I have had dried parsley go terribly bland in a month, and tarragon last

for years.

- -brid

(wishing she didn't rent so she could invest in planting a serious kitchen

garden and always have relatively fresh herbs)

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:19:56 -0400

From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com>

Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

 

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:

> To drag this more or less back on topic---does anyone remember any

> mentions of feverfew in period herbals? I haven't checked for it

> specifically............

> Ldy Diana

 

My lady, Gerard (1597) lists it, although he calls it "featherfew."   I

have on "Early American Gardens" which documents that they are the same

thing. It's listed as a "women's" herb, good for childbirth and other

female "complaints."  I only took a cursory glance through the "Newe

Iewell of Health" but didn't find it.  (I've got to try some of those

cough drops...)

 

Rosalinde (who would dearly love to have a back yard big enough to build

a Balneo Mariae)

- --

Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com *

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:25:18 -0400

From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com>

Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

 

marilyn traber wrote:

> Am with puzzlement, a balneo mariae is modernly called a bain marie,

> or in cooking a double boiler....?

> margali

 

Sort of, on a grand scale.  It's basically a brick "furnace" that they

used to distill herbs for medicine.  There's a lower chamber for the

fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were

processing) into which the pots would sit.  The vapors from the water

and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping into

another pot.

 

I have a horrible memory for what all the herbs were used for (have to

look them up), but I find the old techniques are absolutely fascinating.

 

Rosalinde

- --

Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com *

 

 

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:07:53 -0400

From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

 

Donna Kenton wrote: Sort of, on a grand scale.  It's basically a brick

"furnace" that they

 

> used to distill herbs for medicine.  There's a lower chamber for the

> fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were

> processing) into which the pots would sit.  The vapors from the water

> and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping

> into another pot.

 

Why do you want to do it on such a grand scale? I find foor household

use the smaller sizes are more reaistic.

 

there is a messy but nifty way to extract the ones too delicate for

alcohol or water distillation, fat extraction.

 

start with several panes of glass, smear them with fat-they used lard in

period, i go for veggie shortening.

place the flower[lilac is one specific, also mimosa] in the fat.

insert the pane into a slot in a closed box or cupboard. let rest

overnight.

the next am, pluck out the blossoms with tweezers[or your fingers if you

dont mind getting messy hands]

place more blossoms in the fat, repeat until the fat has a strong odor

of the flower you are extracting.

scrape the fat off, mix as per unguent directions with soft beeswax.

 

this takes care of those herbs and blossoms that are too delicate for

heating. I have read specifically used with lilac and mimosa, would work

with just about anything. If you are careful, you drop the fat in

alcohol which will gently float the essential oils on the surface where

youd skim them off and let the alcohol evaporate off, but it works

really well using the unguent method. I suppose if you wanted hand or

lip balm you could also use cocoa butter.

 

margali

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: SC - Bay-references

 

The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the

gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith.

 

MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil)

 

Not found in Forme of Curye.

 

Not found in Le Manegier.

 

ALEXANDER NEKKHAM"S (sp?) Travelling Diaries > Daily Life in the 12th

Century. May contain references to bay as a medicinal herb or more. Available

at any good reference library.

 

Works of Urban Tigner (sp?) may or may not contain bay laurel references.

 

There you go. That is all we have so far. We are still researching this

subject. Will post further details and comments as they become available.

 

Lord Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 20:57:53 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Bay-references

 

Uduido at aol.com wrote:

> The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the

> gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith.

>

> MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil)

>

> Not found in Forme of Curye.

>

<snip>

 

Just to add to your list, both leaves and berries appear in Apicius, and

I believe that the leaves are mentioned in Taillevent's Viandier, which

makes their absence from Le Menagier all the more peculiar...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:02:50 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Spices

 

>I'm hoping someone can tell me what the two below spices are.  The

>receipe that I'm looking at is medicinal in nature and specifies:

>Pellitory of Spain, the weight of half a groat and Spegall.

>Phyllis L. Spurr

>Eowyn ferch Rhys Cyfurdd

>Barony of Elfsea, Ansteorra

 

A mid-1930's Webster's gives pellitory as:

 

Pellitory, a corruption of L. parietaria, the wall plant.

Any plant of the genus Parietaria; hammerwort.

Feverfew.

Bastard peillitory; sneezewort.

 

Nothing on spegall

 

Bon Chance

Bear

 

 

Date: 13 Oct 1997 11:47:17 -0500

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Herbs and their uses

 

>      I do not write the list much, but recently I have had a few questions

>some of you may be able to answer-or tell me where to find the answer.

>What were the uses of specific herbs (as many as possible) in the Middle

>Ages & Ren?  Also, what are the actual uses that we know of today-for

>some herbs- medicinal ?

 

This is a huge task, and one I am researching as we speak.  I am in the

process of collecting recipes and analyzing what herbs tended to be used

together in cooking and what types of dishes they were used in

(meat/vegetable, pie/roast/soup. etc.)  I'll take someone's (meadbh's ??)

suggestion and list five with multiple uses:

 

Ceylon cinnamon -- cooking (especially with meat)

Sandalwood (saunders) -- red saunders -- food coloring; scenting homes and

               people; decorative woodwork (fans, boxes)

                          -- white        -- not used much in food; used for scenting

               homes and people, decorative woodwork (fans, boxes)

Pepper -- cooking, meats, vegetables and fruits

Chamomile (and most flowers) -- cooking (mostly teas and salats); cosmetics (

lotion, baths)

Saffron -- cooking (especially with cheeses and vegetables, but also as food

coloring); cloth dyeing

 

A word of caution:  If you plan to use herbs in any way, please get a good

modern herbal like John Lust's _The Herb Book_ before you begin.  Many of the

herbs used in period really aren't safe for ingestion.

 

Regarding the modern medicinal use of herbs (this is what you seem to be

looking for), let's not go there.  Right now the legal terrain for this is

very treacherous.

 

>                             Lady Fiona Gwen O'Brannigan Of Northkeep

>                             mka-(Angela Conn)

>fianna at geocities.com

 

If you want more information, please let me know.  Given some time, I can come

up with much more information for you.

 

Derdriu

Guildmistress of the Herbalist Guild in the Barony Marche of the Debatable

Lands, Aethelmearc

 

 

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:26:37 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - spices vs. herbs?

 

Hi all from Anne-Marie

 

The strict definition is that if its from a leaf, its an herb, and if its

from bark, seeds, flowers, or a non-plant material etc its a spice.

 

According to my reading, in the middle ages, herbs did indeed encompass

things like swiss chard and spinach (this according to the lists of "herbs"

we are giving in things lke Charlemagnes _de Villis_ and other period

gardening lists). And this list isn’t limited to culinary herbs, either.

 

Hope this helps...

- --AM, who's 20th century mom says "if its cheap its an herb, if its

expensive and imported, its a spice" :)

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 14:32:30 PST

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: SC - Fw: [Mid] Tansy

 

Thought this had some useful information for us all.

 

- ----------

: Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 03:46:31

: From: Sarah Lane-Dorrance

: To: Middlebridge

: Subject: [Mid] Tansy

:

: >Last year was my first Pensic. I had heard that there is often a high

: >presence of undesirable insects, but was lucky not to have many last year.

: >Something to consider as a repellent for inside your tents is bunches of

: >tansy. It is a better repellent than pennyroyal. Even flies don't like the

: >odor and it's not unpleasant for humans.

:

: Bunches of tansy and pennyroyal (I love the minty smell of pennyroyal!)

: work great as a fragrant bug repellent...a caveat, however:

:

: While the herbs can be ingested if one is careful (tansy, in small

: quantities, is a good tonic, being a bitter herb used to cleanse the body

: of impurities; small amounts of pennyroyal can be good for the digestion).

: HOWEVER - both herbs are potential abortifacients. Pregnant women should

: NEVER ingest them! Even essential oils might be volatile and dangerous.

: Also, tansy can cause heart irregularities if taken in even a slight

: overdose (I found this out the hard way) and one should never, ever, ever

: ingest neat (pure) oil of pennyroyal, or even diluted oil of pennyroyal in

: quantities larger than, oh, a drop or two at most. Oil of pennyroyal is

: highly volatile and toxic; it is a poison; it has caused deaths. Pennyroyal

: is in fact a very strong herb and needs to be used with caution. NEVER use

: oil of pennyroyal except for external use unless you happen to have the

: poison resistance of a Borgia prince.

:

: BTW, pregnant women should also avoid black and blue cohosh root. Blue

: cohosh especially is bad. It is used to treat amennorhea. This means that

: it too will kill your baby in the womb and cause you to expel it. At the

: very least it can potentially cause birth defects. Stay away!

:

: In general, pregnant women need to exercise as much care with herbs as they

: would with ordinary medications. Modern people, used to refined pills,

: forget that herbs are often quite potent. In particular, many of the herbs

: used in medieval cooking (angelica, myrrh, artemisia...) have medicinal

: properites. You are unlikely to find them in modern cooking, because modern

: people find the taste too strong or bitter, but when using a medieval

: recipe, look up the spices in a good herbal first.

:

: Any pregnant woman should have a copy of a herbal (preferably a herb

: encyclopaedia that is up to date; I don't recommend Culpeper's, it has some

: good information but also a lot of out-of-date information). This is useful

: if she is a big fan of herbal tea, or if she uses a lot of arcane spices in

: her cooking, or if she is a herbalist (in which case, she probably already

: has a herbal). most Celestial Seasonings teas, et al are not dangerous, but

: it never hurts to check. If any herb is listed as a potential abortifacient

: or strong toxin, she should avoid it.

:

: I am hoping to start trying to get pregnant next year, after I have my

: master's, so I'm trying to do lots of research. as it is, I do know which

: herbs are really strong abortifacients (and poisons). Many women are not

: aware of the toxicity of certain plants. Plants are powerful.

:

: Sarah Lane-Dorrance/Iseut la Gaunt-Roussie, called Midori

: ICQ #3022977

: LadyJessica at internetphone.com

 

 

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:34:57 -0500

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs

 

_The Medieval Garden_, by Sylvia Landsberg, Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN

0-500-01691-7. Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

 

This book is probably available from your local library.  It's a fine

book, has good illustrations, and will make good reading for you as well

as a nice demo prop.

 

Allison

allilyn at juno.com

Master Chirurgeon, Companion des Lindquistrings, Princess' Order of

Courtesy

 

 

Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:46:24 -0400

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs

 

The book "Herbs for the Mediaeval Household" by Margaret B. Freeman

published by the Metropolitan Museum of Art covers some very well known

medieval herbs, and has them sectioned off into Herbs for Cooking, Herbs

for Healing, Herbs for Poisoning Pests, and Sweet Smelling Herbs.  It is

also laid out with period woodcuts of all of the plants (and of gardens,

preparations, etc.) and I take it with me to demos just because it is a

pretty book on the topic.

       Good Luck,

       Mistress Christianna MacGrain,OP, Meridies

 

 

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:17:42 -0500 (CDT)

From: kgarner1 at ix.netcom.com (Kirsten Nicole Garner)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Spices

 

>(3) chervil (sp?)

>If anyone has information on what exactly they are I would be interested

>in hearing it.

 

Further to other answers here, chervil is amazingly easy to grow. I

just planted some and it sprouted within a week. It's only pot-planted

and I keep it in a window. It's doing fine.

 

I recommend using it fresh and only putting it into a dish at the last

moment. It loses its flavour really quickly when it's cooked.

 

You can get the seeds almost anywhere - I picked mine up at Home Depot.

 

Lady Julian ferch Rhys

 

 

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:41 EDT

From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Spices

 

Do you have a Krogers in your area?  I've gotten chervil there but it was

$4.00 for a tiny bottle.  You can grow it easily in the spring or early

summer, check your best nursery in the herb section, you can by a whole plant

for less.

 

It's similar to parsley and has the same growing habits.  It has a slight

minty flavoring to me.  You could use parsley and just crumble a dried mint

leaf for about the same flavor.

 

Lady Maya

 

 

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:54:21

From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland <foxryde at verinet.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Spices

 

>(3) chervil (sp?)

 

Also known as French Parsley.   It has a fresh taste with a hint of anise.

You could use parsley and grind up a bit of fresh anise seed.  Or you might

sub in some fresh basil.  BTW, this is not an herb that dries well.  Grow

it fresh, use it with wild abandon, and mourn when the frost comes.  It

also does not  freeze at all well.  I sub the other things mostly.

 

Mistress Leonora

formerly Calontir

Unser Hafen, Outlands

 

 

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:45:39 -0400

From: Becky Needham <betony at infinet.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Spices

 

> OK!  My question is:  Where can I find such a catalog?  We've been

> looking for sources for seeds for spices, etc. for a while, but haven't

> found any.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

> Tarja Rahikkainen

 

You can find two very good magazines about herbs that are stuffed with

ads for catalogs, et al, and you can usually find these at your larger

groceries. They are "Herb Quarterly" and "Herb Companion" (which I

think is the better of the two.)

 

Bet

 

 

[Submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>]

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>

To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG

Subject: HERB - Recommended book: The Herbal Arts

Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:59 AM

 

_The Herbal Arts: A handbook of Gardening, Recipes, Healing, Crafts &

Spirituality_ by Patricia Telesco. Citadel Press, 1998. $12.95 paperback.

ISBN: 0-8065-1964-9.

 

My acquaintance with Patricia Telesco is through her new age/pagan books.

This volume, however, is very light on the 'spirituality' and heavy on the

practical herbalist skills.  The author, from Buffalo NY, says that she

used to be in the SCA but no longer has enough time, and she is an

excellent researcher. I'm only 1/2 way through this book but I'm already

impressed right out of my socks. It's worth the $12.95 just for the

section on Herbal Artistry, which gives base recipes/directions for

everything from beers, meads and liqueurs to creams, compresses, and

moisturizers.

 

There is also an extensive section (the back of the book

says more than 130) of herb profiles.  Not all of the standard herbs are

covered, but a number of non-standard ones are, including pumpkin, carob,

and oak. Folk names, history, folklore/superstition/magical uses,

medicinal users, culinary/crafts uses, and gardening/habitat, as well as

other things like the language of flowers, are given for each herb.

Several recipes/redactions are given for each, and comparative historical

material is featured: "contrary to Hippocrates' claim, the Arabs believe

mint improves virility. In the language of flowers, it represents virtue.

This is rather amusing, considering that the herbalist Culpeper says that

mint stirs up bodily lust"!

 

Though not a primary source, this is an excellent secondary/tertiary

source. So far, the only part of her work that I disagree with is her

definition of decoction, which is a vexed question anyway (do you boil

the material in the water for a decoction or just steep it longer?). The

'spirituality' aspect doesn't seem to me to be obtrusive, but as I said

the base recipes section is definitely a great help when concocting

crafts...

 

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus), mka Jennifer Heise

jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:21:27 EST

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Midol

 

VICTORIA.DAVIS at aeroquip.com writes:

<< The active chemical (at

least one of them) in aspirin is salicylic acid*.  In nature, this

chemical is derived from white willow bark.  If you want a period "cure"

for headaches and other minor pains, you can either chew the bark from a

white willow tree or make a tea of it.  >>

 

   You had to go and hit one of my hot buttons--herbs! ;-) There are actually a

number of plants that contain salicylic acid, although the only one I seem to

be able to come up with off the top of my head is Queen-of-the-Meadow. White

willow, however, *is* about the most potent of the choices, as I recall. If

anyone is *really* interested, there was a good article on herbal "aspirin" in

an issue of Herb Companion or Herb Quarterly a few years back. Had a pretty

good history of the development of the drug, I believe, and possibly some

info on period uses of willow and such...........

 

               Ldy Diana

 

 

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:04:44 -0500

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Medieval Plant names-Book

 

This might interest some of you:

Tony Hunt, Plant names of Medieval England,

still in print I believe

 

Mel

 

 

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:40:33 -0500

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Plant names of Medieval England

 

A few people asked for more info off list so ISBN 0859912736

published1989(and 1994 I think) Plant names 1000-1500. It is Literally that

a list of Medieval names their modern (English) names the Latin names

(ie Plantago coronopus) and so on. It is very Acedemic, no pics or

interesting titbits, but if you are after pure knowledge it is very

interesting. At GBP50 it is pretty expensive and should be readiliy

avaliable through a library (I got my copy there)

 

Mel

 

 

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:01:14 -0600

From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Early British Plant Names

 

As a note, another interesting source of early British plant names is in:

 

Storms, G.  Anglo-Saxon Magic.  The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff. 1948.=20

 

There is a nice glossary in the back that lists the Anglo-Saxon plant names

(in Old English) with their modern equivalents and scientific names.  Of

course the body of the book discusses Lacnunga and the Leech-book, both of

which contain many herbal-magical recipe/spells.

 

Other related works that folks may find interesting:

 

Rudolf Grewe, An Early XIII Century Northern-European Cookbook,* in

Proceedings of A Conference on Current Research in Culinary History:

Sources, Topics, and Methods. Published by the Culinary Historians of

Boston, 1986.

 

Bonser, Wilfred.  The Medical Background of Ansglo-Saxon England: A Study

in History, Psychology and Folklore.  London: Wellcome Historical Medical

Library. 1963.

 

Meaney, Audrey L. Anglo-Saxon Amulets and Curing Stones.  BAR British

Series 96. 1981.  [Contains information about herbal amulets as well,]

 

Gunnora Hallakarva

Herskerinde

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:04:08 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: SC - Fw: HERB - Decent Beginners Book

 

From: Warren & Meredith Harmon <corwynsca at juno.com>

To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG <herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG>

Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:19 PM

Subject: HERB - Decent Beginners Book

 

>Hello!   I was perusing my mother's herb book collection, and I found a

>very good, practical book for beginning herb people (like me!).  It's

>"The Complete Book of Herbs: A practical guide to cultivating, drying,

>and cooking with more than 50 herbs".  By Emma Callery, Courage Books (a

>subsidiary of Running Press out of Philadelphia, PA), ISBN 1-56138-351-1,

>Library of Congress # 93-85549.  (No price given, and Mom's not talking!

>She either picked it up at Border's, or at the Rodale sale - those are my

>guesses.) It originally comes out of Quintet Publishers in London.  The

>first section deals with how to cultivate herbs, with all sorts of

>growing tips; the next section is all about garden layouts - what herbs

>to put with what - and most of the designs (including the two Celtic

>knots!!) are from the 16th & 17th centuries.  I count about 20 herb

>layouts, with tips for central displays (sundials, beehives, fountains,

>stone columns, etc.).  The next section is all sorts of craft projects to

>do, including drying tips: herb balls, posies, various potpourris,

>bridesmaid's posies (not documented, but they talk about a "long

>tradition in the Mediterranean"), lavendar wands, etc.  The last section

>is the listing of the 50 herbs, with subsets on history (they drop hints

>throughout - "English mallow features in a 2nd century herbal",

>"chamomile was mentioned in both Gerard's and Culpeper's herbals"),

>identification, cultivation, how to use.  Easch entry has a photograph

>closeup of the herb, and most have pictures of the herb growing in a

>garden. Also, there are recipes scattered throughout, and most look old

>(I can't vouch for their periodicity).  One's for chamomile cleansing

>milk, another's for marigold wine, and marinated smoked fish.  Some

>recipes are newer, like potato salad with horseradish, and tarragon

>chicken.

> Anyway, I hope this helps!

>-Caro

 

 

Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:28:01 -0500

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

 

Hello! Tansy flowers were all I could obtain at the time.  Please note,

tansy (the entire plant, including the seeds) is a medicinal herb, which

may cause abortion or death if taken in sufficient quantity.

 

Here are some web pages with more information:

 

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/t/tansy-05.html

 

http://www.healthlink.us-inc.com/publiclibrary/nat_lib/htm-data/htm-herb/bhp746

.htm

 

http://www.vitamincity.com/herbs.htm

 

http://alternativmedicin.se/Sidor/Vax-140.html

 

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/bloodherb.html

 

This is why I suggested using an alternative bittering agent in the recipe.

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:56:52 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

 

TANACETUM (Tanace'tum)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DESCRIPTION: This hardy perennial, commonly called Tansy, has been used over

the centuries for treating various medical ailments and was traditionally used

as an insect repellent. The leaves and flowers were once added to Lenten

pancakes to give a bitter flavor that was meant to remind diners of suffering

and sacrifice. Tansy can be toxic. Never eat it in large amounts or drink

strong tisanes made from it. This lanky plant grows wild throughout Europe and

has escaped from cultivation in North America. It grows 3 to 4 feet high and

has finely divided, feathery leaves. After mid-summer, it bears flat clusters

of many small yellow flowers resembling buttons; they bloom for many weeks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

POTTING: Young plants are transplanted outdoors after there is no danger from

frost. They are grown in full sun and regular garden soil. Place purchased

plants in the garden from late summer through fall. Cut off freshly opened

flowers. Dried flowers and leaves can be used in potpourris or layered between

clothes to repel insects. You can make a weak tisane. Cut and hang the long

flower stems for everlasting flowers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

PROPAGATION: Seeds should be started indoors, early in the spring and

eventually transferred to the garden. The clumps can be divided in the fall

and spring and replanted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

VARIETIES: T. vulgare (the common Tansy) & variety crispum (smaller, more

finely divided foliage); T. Herderi (rare dwarf w/ silvery foliage).

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:58:56 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

 

Common Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) Sunflower Family (Asteraceae). Flowering:

July-September. Habitat: Roadsides and edges of fields (escaped from gardens).

Height: 2-3' (60-90 cm) Range: Throughout. For centuries this plant was used

medicinally to cause abortions, with sometimes fatal results. The bitter

tasting leaves and stem contain tanacetum, an oil toxic to humans and

animals.

 

The fresh young leaves and flowers, however, can be used as a substitute for

sage in cooking.

 

 

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:17:57 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - curry leaves?

 

nannar at isholf.is writes:

<< Curry leaves (Murraya koenigii) which we are discussing here and the herb

>known as 'curry' are 2 different plants entirely. They are not interchangeable

>in cookery. Sure about that? >>

 

Yes, "From a plant native to southern Asia, this fragrant herb looks like a

small, shiny lemon leaf and has a pungent curry fragrance. Quote Epicurious

Food site."

 

This plant is not the same thing as the plant described by someone else on

the list as a curry plant which had needle-like leaves.

 

<<Every book and source I´ve consulted only mentions one

herb, which is curry leaves (Murraya or Chalcas koenigii). However, my

Indian ingredients book says it can be either a shrub (or even a windowsill

plant) or a 6 meter high tree, but it is still the same plant. >>

 

There are two different plants that are referred to as 'curry plants'. One is

Murraya koenegii which is the curry leaf plant that is used in Indian cooking

and as a cooking herb. This is a small tropical tree which can grow up to 6

feet in height in its natural habitat. It is not hardy in northern gardening

zones.

 

The other so-called 'curry plant' is Helichrysum angustifolium which smells

like the curry leaf but is not used in cooking. It has leaves similar to pine

needles or, more closely thyme leaves. This is most often the plant that

people grow in their herb gardens.

 

<<Curry powder is something entirely different,...>>

 

Correct. Each Indian recipe has it's own particular blend of spices.

Somewhere along the way, an enterprising businessman decided to standardize

this blend and market it as 'curry powder.' Most pre-made curry powders are

unbalanced and produce foul tasting food although I do have a commercially

produced Jamaican curry powder that is a very nice blend which I use in

specific personal non-Indian dishes for a touch of the exotic occasionally.

 

Anyway, the curry leaf that is similar to lemon leaves in appearance is the

culinary herb. That plant which has the needle-like leaves is not the

culinary herb.

 

<< Nanna >>

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:09:16 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - spikenard

 

agora at algonet.se writes:

<< But the question is: is it a

root from Indien or is it the Spanish "nardo", a fleshy and bitter

flower? >>

 

a Himalayan aromatic plant (Nardostachys jatamansi) of the valerian family

from which spikenard is believed to have been derived

 

Spikenard itself is described as an 'ointment'.

 

Go figure.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:28:35 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - spikenard

 

I have attached (below) the entries on "spignel" and "spikenard" (incomplete

as they are) from the glossary of spice names I am working on writing. It

would seem that Spikenard is usually the root etc. of "Nardostachys

jatamansi", but may on occasion be "Meum athamanticum". We sell the

jatamansi (which is certainly what is meant in 90% of the references, going

back to Roman times, but haven't found a source of the meum yet (anyone know

one?).

 

I'd be very interested in experiences, recipes, and comments from people who

have used spikenard. We have only recently added it to our stock, and I

haven't got around to doing much testing yet.

 

Francesco Sirene

David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net

partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net

Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/

 

SPIGNEL

[English 1579; "spignale" 1502 (OED2 "Spignel")] Also known as "meum" or

"baldmoney".

"The aromatic root of the umbelliferous plant Meum athamanticum, used, when

dried and ground, in medicine as a carminative or stimulant, or as a spice

in cookery." (OED2 "Spignel")

This was used in some spiced wine concoctions (viz. "1502 Arnolde Chron.

(1811) 188 Take cloues and gelofre, . . gynger and spignale, . . and temper

hem with good wyne." OED2 "Spignel")

It may on occasion have been used as SPIKENARD, particularly where the

recipe calls for "spykenard de Spayn" (Hieatt and Butler 1985, p. 143), as

spignel was on occasion known as as "spygnal of Spaine" and Turner's 1562

Herbal says it "peraduenture was ones called Spiknard." (OED2 "Spignel")

 

SPIKENARD

[English c.1350; from the late or medieval Latin spica nardi, rendering the

Greek               (also            ) (OED2 "Spikenard")]

(1) "The source of the true or Indian nard is now identified as

Nardostachys jatamansi, a plant of the family Valerianacae, the fibrous

root-stocks or ‘spikes' of which are still collected in Bhotan and Nepal."

(Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol. 21, p. 216)

Flückiger and Hanbury confirm that Indian Nard is the rhizome of

Nardostachys Jatamansi DC., and is one of several substances known under the

name of sumbul, an Arabic word signifying an ear or spike. (Flückiger and

Hanbury 1879, p. 312)

The ointment made from the plant is said to have gone under the name of

sinbul Hindi or Indian spike. (Walker 1957, p. 196)

Jatamanshi is mentioned as a spice in Indian sources of the era 400-200

B.C. (Achaya 1994, p. 37)

The perfume is actually in the lower hairy stems (the indian name

jatamansi refers to the shaggy hair, or ‘ermine tails', covering the stems).

These are tied together by the roots. (Walker 1957, p. 196) It is stated to

still be sold today [1957], as in New Testament times,  in alabaster boxes

which preserve the essential perfume. (Ibid.)

As an aromatic ingredient in costly perfumes and unguents of the Romans

and the Middle Eastern peoples of classical times, spikenard was highly

prized. "The ointment prepared from it is mentioned in the New Testament

(Mark xiv. 3-5; John xii.3-5) as being ‘very costly,' a pound of it being

valued at more than 300 denarii (over £10 [work out modern equivalent value,

based on wages]). This appears to represent the prices then current for the

best quality of nard, since Pliny (H.N. xii, 26) mentions that nard spikes

reached as much as 100 denarii per lb." (Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol.

21, p. 216)

The spice appears in Roman sources under several variant names: the late

4th or early 5th century cookbook of Apicius has nardostachyum and spica

Indica (Apicius 1958, pp. 56, 146, 164, 184, 211) In the Excerpts of

Vinidarius, an Ostrogoth living in North Italy in the fifth or sixth

century, his "Brevis Pimentorum" ("List of Condiments") includes both spica

indica and spicanardi, suggesting that the two are not precisely the same

thing. (Apicius 1977, p. 234; Apicius 1984, p. 282)

(2) Garcia da Orta, a Portuguese physician and apothecary who spent 35

years (from 1534 on) at Goa in India, "verified that the spikenard of the

ancient Greeks was Cymbopogon schoenanthus, rosha grass that grew on the

banks of the Ganges." (Achaya 1994, p. 169) This, formerly designated

Andropogon Schœnanthus L., is a grass of Northern and Central India, which

yields by distillation the oil known as Rúsa Oil or Oil of Ginger Grass.

(Flückiger and Hanbury 1879, pp. 725-726)

(3) See SPIGNEL, which may on occasion have been meant, particularly when

"Spykenard de Spayn" is referred to.

(4) "Ploughman's Spikenard" (1597 OED2 "Spikenard") is Inula conyza

(formerly assigned to the genera Baccharis and Conyza), a sweet-scented

shrubby plant which grows wild in Britain. It was used medicinally, and as a

garland plant, but no mention is made of culinary use. (Gerard 1994, p. 183)

(5) There are several other plants which have acquired the name spikenard,

but which will not have been meant during the period covered here. Aralia

racemosa is known as American spikenard or great spikenard, but it is a

North American plant and there is no evidence of its use before 1600 (it is

now sold by herbal suppliers, in North America at least, simply as

"spikenard", so buyers would be wise to check the botanical name of what

they are buying). Another species of the same genus, Aralia nudicaulis, as

well as being called wild sarsaparilla is also known as wild spikenard and

small spikenard, but is again of American extraction. In the West Indies

Hyptis suaveolens is called spikenard. (Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol.

21, p. 216; OED2 "Spikenard")

 

 

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 06:32:03 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

 

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> This reminds me, since I've recently been using dill to season various

> things, I was wondering about this. Is dill mentioned as a period herb/spice

> in any of the period cooking recipes we have? I imagine it does grow in

> Europe. I would think it would be used like mustard seed. Not in fancy

> feasts, since it would be local and not imported, but perhaps there is

> mention of it. Perhaps in Le Menegier(sp?) ?

 

If there is, I haven't seen it. I'd think that since the heaviest modern

concentration of dill use seems to be in the cuisines of Eastern Europe,

the Balkans, and Scandinavia, it might suggest dill isn't especially

common in the rest of Europe, or at least might not be indigenous to

places like France and England. I dunno, maybe they just didn't like the stuff.

 

Wait. Scratch that. Partly. I see in the dictionary that dill is

represented in Middle English usage as "dille" and dylle", from the

Anglo-Saxon "dile', which is related to the Old High German "tilli",

possibly based on Indo-European roots meaning "to swell". This would

suggest it was at least known in medieval England and perhaps France,

but I still don't recall seeing it mentioned in any of the period

recipes I'm familiar with. Possibly, as you suggest, it wouldn't appear

in recipes intended for "fancy feasts", and maybe few written recipes

requiring it exist. Another possibility is that it had a wider medicinal

than culinary usage.

 

Dill, BTW, is a favorite of mine, because in my opinion dried dillweed

is a closer approximation to the fresh article than just about any other

herb. It seems to lose the least of its flavor, color, and texture,

possibly because of its structure and the resultant tendency to dry out

quickly, leaving something that doesn't just taste like mulch, as things

like dried tarragon, basil, and parsley tend to do.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:02:26 -0700 (PDT)

From: Vicki Strassburg <taltos at primenet.com>

Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

 

Interesting info from the OED about dill which may help in its uses.

~Maedb

 

C. 1000 Ags. Gosp. Matt. xxiii. 23 Wa eow, boceras..(asg)e pe teodiad

mintan and dile and cymyn.

 

C. 1000 Sax. Leechd. II. 20 Wip heafod ece (asg)enim diles blostman.

 

A. 1387 Sinon. Barthol. (Anecd. Oxon.) 10 Anetum, dile vel dille.

 

C. 1420 Pallad. on Husb. iv. 167 Nowe sette in places colde, senvey and

dyle.

 

1578 Lyte Dodoens ii. xc. 270 They sowe Dill in al gardens, amongst

wortes, and Pot herbes.

 

1590 Spenser F.Q. iii. ii. 49 Had gathered rew, and savine, and the flowre

Of camphora, and calamint, and dill.

 

1612 Drayton Poly-olb. xiii. 218 The wonder-working Dill..Which curious

women use in many a nice disease.

 

1627 Drayton Agincourt, etc., Nymphidia 127 Therewith her Veruayne and her

Dill, That hindreth Witches of their will.

 

THE OED SAYS DILL IS ALSO KNOWN AS ANET AND HERE's STUFF ON THAT:

 

C. 1265 in Wright Voc. 140 Anetum, anete, dile.

 

1382 Wyclif Matt. xxiii. 23 Woo to 3ou, scribis and Pharisees..that tithen

mente, anete [v.r. anese] and comyn.

 

1398 Trevisa Barth. De P.R. xvii. lxxi. (1495) 645 The sede of Ferula is

lyke to Annet.

 

1533 Elyot Cast. Helth (1541) 76 Oyle of camomyll, oyle of anete, and

other lyke.

 

1540 R. Wisdom in Strype Eccl. Mem. I. App. cxv. 317 To tyth mint &

annett;

 

 

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:13:29 +0200

From: Jimmie.Ruthford at ramstein.af.mil

Subject: SC - Dill

 

       Someone was inquiring about the use of Dill in period cooking.  I

have a couple of books that make use of dill in the modern version of a

period recipe, but I haven't seen dill in the original recipe.  However,

there is reference to a manuscript that includes a section on "all manner of

herbs". The manuscript is called "Le Regime du corps", written by

Aldobrandino da Siena in the thirteenth century.

 

       Roibeard

 

 

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:57:06 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

 

Adamantius wrote:

> Another possibility is that it had a wider medicinal than culinary usage.

 

The Harpestraeng medical miscellany I´m currently studying has quite a few

medical uses for dill - leaves, seeds, root and flowers. It is not mentioned

in the recipes in the cookbook section but that doesn´t mean much, as the

manuscript probably originates in Southern Europe, where dill seems not to

have been used much in cooking, if at all.

 

Nanna

 

 

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:44:31 +1000

From: lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - white leaves?

 

Mike Young wrote:

> Are there any herbs or other edible period plants with white leaves?

> Strange question I know, but I'm actually involved in a heraldry debate

> trying to help a friend design arms.

> gwyneth

 

Whilst I can think of herbs with white flowers, the one that currently springs

to mind is Wormwood.  This herb has a silvery grey foliage rather than white

though. Its scientific name is Abinsinthium.  It is related to mugwort.  Both

herbs are bitter digestive remedies and many bitter aperitifs such as vermouth

contain wormwood as a digestive stimulant.  As its name implies, wormwood is

also used to expel worms.  It s supposed to be able to be dated to Anglo Saxon

times according to my medicinal herb book, I believe I have seen reference to it

in Culpeppers.

It has distinct side effects (uterine stimulants which may cause fetal

abnormality" & contains the potentially addictive thujone, which gave the drink

abinsthe its notorious reputation.

 

It is exceptionally pretty.

 

Lorix

 

 

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:56:16 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Tatar herbs from Poland

 

>Someone sometime ago, mentioned wanting to know what a

>reference in a Polish account might be.  It was

>something about a Tatar herb.  Unfortunately, I can't

>find the message, but I have found something that

>might be of help.

 

My lady, that was me, enquiring.

 

>Yesterday, I received my copy of "Food and Drink in

>Medieval Poland" [huzzah!].  Of course, I had to sit

>right down and start reading.  In chapter 4, I found

>this reference:

>"Tartarian buckwheat [(Fagopyrum tataricum)] came to

>Poland from central Asia during the thirteenth

>century, along with sweet flag (Acorus calamus) and

>Tartar bread plant (Crambe tatarica), a potherb often

>used in porridges prepared with buckwheat grits.  The

>fleshy, sweet root of this latter herb was grated into

>vinegar like horseradish or cooked with parsnips,

>carrots, or skirrets.  The leaves were often used by

>country people to wrap around bread baked downhearth

>in ashes or in bake ovens, which gave bread a nice,

>golden crust."

>Anyway, this passage jogged my memory about what we

>had discussed sometime ago and I had to post this.

>Huette

 

I just got back from my holidays, as part of which I spent a couple of days

luxuriating in a decent library (University of British Columbia), and I was

able to pursue my original question. First I used an English-Polish

dictionary to get a Polish translation of "Tatar herb" ("tatarskie ziele"),

then I leapt into the various large Polish dictionaries. No luck. Then into

the Polish encyclopedias. Found it at last, deep in the bowels of the

library, in the ENCYKLOPEDIA STAROPOLSKA, published at Warsaw in 1939 (not

an auspicious date for Polish publications, I suspect -- I feel it is very

fortunate the library had this), Vol II, column 699: ". . . np. r. 1472

tatarskie ziele, pozniej tatarak ("acorus") . . ."  Aha! Several of the

dictionaries had indicated that 'tatarak' is "Acorus calamus" (sweet flag),

so now this linked up, and I interpret it as indicating the use of the term

as first dated to 1472, well before the 1604 context where I found it.

 

And now you have provided confirmation from "Food and Drink in Medieval

Poland". Hurrah! And many thanks for your kindness in remembering my

question after a considerable period of time.

 

Just one further question. . . . Is there any further reference in the book

to the use of sweet flag? I know it was widely used in perfumery, and also

has been (and I believe still is) used in the Middle East in confectionery

(the candied root was used as an aphrodisiac). I am wondering if the Poles

imported it for use in perfumes, in medicine, or in food.

 

Francesco Sirene

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:06:40 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: cassia buds; was SC - questions: TO BOIL PHEASANTS

 

Re cassia Buds:

>Would you use them whole, or grind them?

>Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt

 

Either, I suspect, depending on the context. Some of the spice mixtures that

call for them seem most likely to have been ground, but they may also have

been used whole. In modern times they are used whole in pickling solutions,

and also, I believe, in some sausages. Incidentally, although not

documentable, ASFAIK, they also make a very pleasant and less overpowering

substitute for cloves in cloved fruit (some of the more amorous locals in my

area swear they'll never use cloves again).

 

Francesco Sirene

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:47:36 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - Tatar herbs from Poland

 

Francesco Sirene wrote:

>Just one further question. . . . Is there any further reference in the book

>to the use of sweet flag? I know it was widely used in perfumery, and also

>has been (and I believe still is) used in the Middle East in confectionery

>(the candied root was used as an aphrodisiac). I am wondering if the Poles

>imported it for use in perfumes, in medicine, or in food.

 

Tom Stobart says, in Herbs, Spices and Flavourings, that "All parts of this

plant are sweet and aromatic and the roots were at one time candied to make

a strongly pungent sweetmeat in both England and America. It is used as a

flavouring, particularly in liqueurs. The very young leaf buds can also be

eaten as a salad. Older rhizomes are often fibrous."

 

Nanna

 

 

Subject: RE: ANST - Lard

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 99 14:35:17 MST

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'ansteorra at ansteorra.org'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

> What is a good substitute for Lard in today's cooking world and for penny

> royal?

> F. Havas

> ches at io.com

 

<snip of lard info. See cooking-oils-msg>

 

You might try substituting mint for pennyroyal.  There are two different

plants that I know of with the name pennyroyal.  Mentha pulegium is the

Eurasian mint which produced the aromatic oil used in medieval Europe.

Hedeoma pulegioides is North American pennyroyal whose aromatic oil is used

in insect repellent.  I've never experimented with the stuff, so I don't

know if the two can be used interchangeably.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:13:54 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Herbs

 

troy at asan.com writes:

<< Interesting, though, to learn that parsley, from a botanical

perspective, is not an herb... >>

 

Miriam-Webster disagrees. :-)

 

herb (noun)

 

often attributive

 

[Middle English herbe, from Old French, from Latin herba]

 

First appeared 14th Century

 

1 : a seed-producing annual, biennial, or perennial that does not develop

persistent woody tissue but dies down at the end of a growing season

 

2 : a plant or plant part valued for its medicinal, savory, or aromatic

qualities

 

3 slang : MARIJUANA 2

 

-- herb*like (adjective)

 

-- herby (adjective)

 

 

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:16:49 -0500

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: SC - Growing herbs indoors

 

I just got this from the Burpee seed people, and I thought those of you on

the List who grow herbs might find it of interest.

 

Phlip

------

December 27, 1999

 

The Burpee Garden News is presented by your friends

at Burpee and the National Gardening Association.

Every two weeks, you will receive gardening

news, tips, and inspiration from our panel of experts.

=======================

 

Growing an Indoor Herb Garden

 

Even if your climate kisses the herb garden goodbye

for the winter, that doesn’t mean you have to do

without fresh herbs for all your hearty winter dishes.

An indoor herb garden is only as far away as your

windowsill. Basil, chives, oregano, parsley, rosemary,

sage, savory, tarragon, and thyme are especially

well suited to growing in containers. Here are some

tips for cultivating your windowsill herb garden:

 

* Purchase herb plants or sow seeds into pots filled

with sterile potting soil. With few exceptions, herbs

require excellent drainage. When roots are confined

in a pot or planter, water and air cannot move easily.

To improve drainage, add sharp sand or perlite to a

good, sterilized, compost-based mix.

 

* If you have the space for an indoor window box,

place the individual herb pots inside the larger box

and fill it with soil up to the rim of the pots. This helps

maintain higher humidity and promotes better growth.

 

* Most herbs are sun worshippers so choose a

location that receives at least 4 hours of direct

sunlight a day. Grow lights can boost the light levels

if you don’t have the ideal spot.

 

* In garden soil, herbs don’t need much fertilizer.

But in the confines of a pot, supplementary feedings

with liquid fertilizer or organic fish emulsion are

necessary. Feed herbs once a week when plants

are actively growing.

 

* When the soil is dry to the touch, add water until it

comes out  of the bottom of the pot. If the water doesn't

come out, the pots have a drainage problem. First,

see if the holes are blocked; if not, you may

have to repot with soil that has better drainage.

 

Question of the Week

=================

Q. How can I keep my rosemary plant from drying up

and dying when I bring it indoors for the winter?

 

A. Under high light conditions, such as in your

outdoor garden in summer, plants produce thick,

strong, and narrow leaves. These leaves are less

efficient in converting light energy into food than

the leaves a plant produces under low light levels

because they don’t need to be especially efficient

when light is plentiful. If you move an outdoor plant

indoors, the plant drops leaves because it can’t

make enough food to sustain itself until it grows

new low-light leaves. To give your rosemary time

to grow these new leaves in preparation for life

indoors, you can gradually accustom the plant

to deeper shade for 2 to 3 weeks before

bringing it indoors. When plenty of new growth

appears, the plant is ready to go into the house.

 

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:51:57 +0000

From: Anthony Lyman-Dixon <lyman at lyman-dixon.freeserve.co.uk>

Organization: Arne Herbs

To: Stefan at texas.net, RSVE60 at email.sps.mot.com

Subject: Medieval Herbs

 

Accidentally fell across your web site, very interesting. Here at Arne

Herbs, Bristol UK, we use the following sources as references:-

 

Crescenzi, Hunt's Materia medica of Salerno, Getz's "Healing & Society

in Medieval England, anything mentioned at the Dumbarton Oaks "medieval

conference" and Braccio's poetic inventory of the Careggi  garden.

 

Riddle (UNC) and the late Jerry Stannard (University of Kansas) are also

invaluable sources of information and all of which are published in the

USA. We try and grow anything in these lists that will survive the

English climate but regret that we can not sell to America. Again,

regretfully owing to constraints on my time, the Arne Herbs advice line

is only available to our clients (unless someone comes up with a problem

that really fascinates me)  but I am available for consultancy and

lectures on historic gardens.

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:28:47 -0800

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Apicius and Platina

 

>I am in the process of interpreting recipes for the cooks guild tomorrow

>night, and have come up with two questions.  In Apicius, the recipe for Crane

>or Duck with Turnips lists "laser foot".  It must be a spice, but I am unable

>to find it.

>Aldyth

 

As another respondent just pointed out, "laser foot" should read "laser

root"; laser is asafetida, a very smelly resin from a plant which grows in

Iran and other countries nearby. A little of it brings up other flavours

beautifully (just don't overdo it). Don't confuse laser with silphium, as an

earlier comment did. Silphium was the resin of a related plant which  became

extinct due to overharvesting in the wild in the period of the early Roman

Empire (so, anyhow,  if you have an Apician recipe calling for silphium,

your best substitute is the closely related asafetida).

 

Yours spicily,

Francesco Sirene

 

 

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:19:17 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Apicius and Platina

 

David Dendy wrote:

> Silphium was the resin of a related plant which  became

> extinct due to overharvesting in the wild in the period of the early Roman

> Empire (so, anyhow,  if you have an Apician recipe calling for silphium,

> your best substitute is the closely related asafetida).

 

And available in Indian groceries under the name "hing powder", although

I bet there are several SCAdian venues for purchase, too, including,

probably, Francesco. The whole extinct-silphium question is a major part

of the plot of Lindsey Davis's wonderful ancient-Roman-private-eye novel

"Two For the Lions".

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:19:34 -0600

From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>

Subject: SC - more Tusser

 

Herbs to Still in Summer

 

1. Blessed Thistle

2. Betonye

3. Dill

4. Endive

5. Eyebright

6. Fennell

7. Fumetorie

8. Hop

9. Mints

10. Plantaine

11. Roses, red and damaske

12. Respies

13. Sarefrage

14. Strawberries

15. Sorrell

16. Suckerie

17. Wodroffe, for sweet waters and cakes

 

 

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:49:37 -0600

From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC - more Tusser

 

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> magdlena at earthlink.net writes:

> << Herbs to Still in Summer >>

> Meaning , please? I assume it means 'distill', a little used form of the word

> 'still'?

 

That is my assumption....

 

May's Husbandry

 

The knowledge of stilling is one pretty feat,

the waters be wholesome, the charges not great:

What timely thou gettest, while summer doth last,

think winter will help thee, to spend it as fast.

 

- -Magdalena

 

 

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:19:40 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Native American "coffee".

 

Chicory (Chicorium intybus) is an Old World plant introduced to the New

World by Europeans.  The term is occasionally applied to other members of

the family including radicchio.  The roots, dried and ground, are used to

adulterate coffee.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:03:10 +1000

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

 

Etain1263 at aol.com wrote:

> I was wondering the same thing:  are violas edible? (referred to around here

> as "johnny jump-ups")

 

Another name for "johnny jump-ups" is heartsease, my medicinal herbal book gives

the following detail:

quote from Bartholomaeus Anglicus in reference to violas "The lytylnes ... in

substance be nobly rewarded in greatnesse of sauour and of vertue (c1250)

 

Sweet violet & heartsease (v. odorata & v.tricolour) have been used medicinally

since ancient times.  Homer relates how the Athenians used violets to "moderate

anger", while Pliny recommends wearing garlands of violets to prevents headaches

& dizzyness.  Heartsease was once used in love potions, hence the name.

 

Heartsease can be used for a wide range of skin disorders, from nappy rash to

varicose ulcers.  A good cough expectorant because of high saponin content

(however high doses should be avoided because saponin can lead to nausea &

vomiting). The areial parts also tonify & strengthen the blood vessels.

Harvest while flowering.  Use as an infusion for chronic skin disorders & as a

gentle circultory & imune system stimulent.  Use as a tincture for lung &

digestive disorders, capilliary fragility & urinary problems.

 

In summary:

V. Odorata (sweet violet) acts as an anti-inflammatory, stimulating expectorant,

diuretic & anti-tumour remedy.

V.tricolour (heartsease) acts as an expectorant, anti-inflammatory, diueretic,

antiheumatic, laxative & stabilises capillary mebranes.

 

Ie: yes it is edible ;-)

 

YIS, Lorix

 

 

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:18:36 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - organ meats and anthelmintics??

 

> I think it would have to have been a very desperate person to have

> eaten tripe, given the lack of internal parasite control.  Roundworms,

> tapeworm and several other species are VERY obvious in a slaughtered

animal when the intestines are opened or cleaned.  I can't see anyone

willingly using the host organs as a food source...eeewwwww! 8^)

>

> Was there a period formula for de-worming stock??  I know tobacco

> can be used for roundworms, but what was used before it became

available?   

>

> Prydwen

 

        Yes, there are several herbs that were (and still are) used for removing

worms and parasites from children, adults, and livestock.  Garlic is

mentioned in Egyptian herbals (for numerous uses) for worms, Culpepper

recommends garlic for killing worms in children (amongst other things).

Sage is also said to kill intestinal worms, and there are numerous other

vermifuges (agents that destroy or expel intestinal worms, aka vermicide;

& antithelmintic).  New world plants, or at least modern preparations

that are used to great success with this include black walnut (old

world?), pumpkin seed, and pau d'arco.

        Christianna

        who is planning on a parasite cleanse soon - ooh, boy!

 

 

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:25:08 -0600

From: Serian <serian at uswest.net>

Subject: Re: SC - chamomile

 

One source I have, Hildegard of Bingen's _Physica_, has

several citations for chamomile.  One is for painful

intestines, ear remedy, eye remedy, etc.

 

Serian

 

 

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 02:01:36 -0500

From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC -Coffee Soap

 

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:

 

>     OK, since this *isn't* the Herb list: does anyone recall seeing any

> recipes--medicinal or otherwise--for chamomile in period? I'm drawing a blank

> at the moment..........

 

>From Culpeper:

 

Chamomel flowers heat, discuss, loosen and rarify, boiled in Clysters, they are

excellent in the wind cholic, boiled in wine,

and the decoction drunk, purges the reins, break the stone, opens the pores, cast out choleric humours, succours the heart, and

eases pains and aches, or stiffness coming by travelling.

 

http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Culpeper/Herbal/chap369.html

 

Also,

 

Syrupus de Absinthio simplex

                                   Or Syrup of Wormwood simple

 

College : Take of the clarified Juice of common Wormwood, clarified Sugar, of each four pounds, make it into a Syrup according to art. After the same manner,

are prepared simple Syrups of Betony, Borrage, Bugloss, Carduus, Chamomel,

Succory, Endive, Hedge-mustard, Strawberries, Fumitory, Ground Ivy, St. John's

Wort, Hops, Mercury, Mousear, Plantain, Apples, Purslain, Rasberries, Sage,

Scabious, Scordium, Houseleek, Colt's-foot, Paul's Bettony, and other Juices not

sour.

 

   Culpeper : See the simples, and then you may easily know both their virtues,

and also that they are pleasanter and fitter for

delicate stomachs when they are made into Syrups.

 

 

 

BTW, Culpeper is one of the sources of documentation for cordials made with

spirits.

 

Tinctura Fragroram

                                    Or Tincture of Strawberries

 

College : Take of ripe Wood-strawberries two pounds, put them in a phial, and

put so much small spirits of Wine to them, that it may overtop them the thickness of four fingers, stop the vessel close, and set it in the sun two days, then strain it, and press it but gently; pour this spirit to as many fresh Strawberries, repeat this six times, at last keep the clear liquor for your use.

 

Culpeper : A fine thing for Gentlemen that have nothing else to do with their

money, and it will have a lovely look to please their eyes.

 

- -Magdalena

 

 

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:33:18 -0400

From: Gaylin <iasmin at home.com>

Subject: SC - Anise

 

Serian asked (on the Cook's list for those of you reading

this on the Herbalist list):

 

>Does anyone know about history of anise and when/if it was

>used in period?

 

And Ras responded kindly with:

 

>Anise originated in Egypt from which it spread to the middle east and then

>throughout the Mediterranean basin. It was used as a medicinal and as a

>flavoring agent.

 

While this is essentially true to my knowledge, also to my

knowledge it may be incomplete. By anise I'm going to assume

we mean Pimpinella anisum and not Illicium verum

which is also known as anise, but usually star anise

and is from China (incidently it's a tree in the Magnolia

family, something I didn't know until just now when I

was doublechecking the latin name). Confusion on the

names should come as no suprise. Even today we have

troubles, but during our researched time P. anisum

was confused with Anethum gaveolens, which finally

came to be called "dill" or "anet"

 

Interesting side note here about mistranslation and

confusion. In the Bible, we find a reference to "anise"

as a payment for taxes along with mint and cumin

(Mathew 23:23), but many scholars disagree and

believe that the correct translation is "dill" not

"anise". Watch out for references and translations

in period manuscripts, as this is a tripping point.

 

Ras is right in that Egypt is the source of P. anisum

and Waverly Root  states that this is the only place

in the world where the plant still grows in the wild

(Food, pg. 6) From Egypt, most sources say the plant

spread through Africa until it reached the Mediterranean

where the ancient Greeks and Romans took off with

it and never returned.

 

P. anisum is mentioned in a very many ancient and

period manuscripts. It has been used in food and perfumery

since its discovery and during our researched time

period it is very easy to find references to its inclusion

in those arts/science we study. In cooking, as several

people have mentioned, it is used in recipes where a

cook might be looking for an anise flavor or perhaps to

balance out the humors by aiding digestion. Many feasts

ended with sugared anise (cf. Platina's "De Honesta

Voluptate") and again according to Waverly Root, "no

Roman wedding banquet was complete without anise

cakes" (Food, ibid.). It has also been used an addition

to many other dishes. Taillevent mentions it and uses

it often in a variety of recipes (someone on the list

should be able to supply you with some; I'm still

waiting for my copy to appear in my collection).

 

Although I do not like the taste of anise much at all,

my personal enjoyment of P. anisum does not stem from

the cooking interests, but rather from the medicinal

in period. In all honesty, digestion ranks as the top

medicinal use of the plant, but as you approach later

period manuscripts, you'll find you can't swing a dead

cat without hitting another illness it was intended to

cure. Among the symptoms or situations it was said

to cure are epilepsy (cf. Pythagorus); coughs (cf.

Hippocrates); halitosis, old age, and bad dreams (cf.

Pliny); flatulence; low flow of mother's milk; and

nausea. As you go further and later in time, more

cures pop up. Of the cures I listed, flatulence and

indigestion, coughs, and nausea can be substantiated

by modern science. There may be more, but I've not

read the studies on them.

 

Jasmine

iasmin de cordoba

 

 

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:21:52 +1000

From: "Lee-Gwen Booth" <piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries

 

From: Lorix

> Umm, just out of interest, were juniper berries used in period & if

> so, what original sources call for their use.  I can get them at my

> local supermarket quite cheaply, but i haven't seen a period recipe

> that calls for their use.

 

I can't be sure how accurate my source is, but I have a book called "Spices

and Natural Flavourings - A complete guide to identification and uses of

common and exotic spices and natural flavourings" by Jennifer Mulherin.

This is some of what she has to say about juniper:

 

"Juniper berries have a sweet and aromatic woody taste and although juniper

is a common culinary spice in northern Europe, it is probably most familiar

as the distinctive flavouring in gin.  Known since biblical times, the

berries and leaves were used by the Greeks and Romans and in Europe until

the 16th century as a medicinal aid against plague and pestilence as well as

snake bites.  Juniper is an interesting flavouring which is rather neglected

in British cookery but used often in Sweden, Germany, Italy, and southern

Europe where, in fact, the most flavourful berries come from."  [Wince!  The

language pedant in me hated typing this sentence!]

 

Gwynydd

 

 

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:51:32 +0200

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - juniper berries

 

<< Umm, just out of interest, were juniper berries used in period & if

so, what original sources call for their use. >>

 

Among the German sources there are:

- -- the Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (c. 1445)

- -- the Kuechenmeisterei (1485ff)

- -- the Alemannisches Buechlein von guter Speise (15thC)

- -- the cookbook of Philippina Welser (c. 1545)

- -- the cookbook of Sabina Welser (c. 1553)

- -- the cookbook of Marx Rumpolt 1581

- -- medical and dietetic texts like that of Seitz (16thC) and Huebner

(1588/1603)

 

The old names are "krametber", "wacholderber" or "reckolterber" and

their spelling variants.

 

Thomas

 

 

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:35:07 +0200

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - juniper berries

 

Hieronymus Bock in his herbal (1577) stresses -- apart from mentioning

several medical uses -- the culinary value of juniper:

 

'... To sum up, juniper berries are useful and good for many things;

this is why the cooks called such berries into their kitchens; they fill

chicken and birds with it'. -- ("Seind inn summa zuo vil dingen nutz

vnnd guot/ derhalben so hat der Koch solche beerlein auch zuo sich inn

die kuchen beruoffen/ fuellet darmit Huener vnd Voegel"; Bock 1577,

378b)

 

Here is a 16th century English recipe for this kind of use:

 

"To roste woodcockes

Plucke them, and then draw the guts out of them, but

leave the liver still in them, then stuffe them with

Larde chopped small, and Juniper berries, with his bill

put into his breast and his feet as the Snite, and so

roste him on a spit, + set under it a faire large pan,

with white wine in it, and chopped Parsley, Vingar, salt,

and ginger. Then make tostes of white bread, and toaste

them upon a Gridyron, so that they be not burnt: then put

these tostes in a dish, and up-them lay your woodcocks,

and put your sawce being the same broth upon them, and so

serve them foorth."

(The good huswifes handmaide for the kitchen 1594, ed. Peachey)

 

Other old names for juniper (the plant), mentioned in some old herbals

include:

- -- french "geniËvre"

- -- provencal "genibre", "genebre", "cade" (for a big juniper)

- -- spanish "enebro"

- -- italian "ginepro" (e.g. mentioned in the "Horto de i semplici di

Padoua" 1591)

- -- middle Dutch "genever" (also "wakelbere" for the berry)

- -- and others from Arabic, Bohemian, Greek, Hebrew, Syrian ...

 

Alas, the folk names and the dialectal names are not mentioned. For the

English language, Hoops ("Waldb‰ume und Kulturpflanzen, p. 271) writes,

that there is no real folk name for juniper. The oe. "cwicbeam", me.

"quikentre" for the plant were used only rarely.

 

Thomas

 

 

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:52:32 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - long

 

German cookery, Lorix.  The English seemed to have been busy trying to

invent gin with theirs! ;-)

 

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_asentry.htm

 

The above URL is for one of Gwen-Cat's sites.  She is doing some English

translation of Marx Rumpoldt's Cookbook, and you can find Sabina Welser's

Cookbook, in English, Valoise Armstrong's translation at

 

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

 

A favorite Germanic use for them is in Sauerbraten.

 

Here's a recipe from the Rheinfrankisches Kochebuch, but I haven't passes

this one past Thomas yet, so I hope it's right.

 

 

37. Willst du eine F¸llung zubereiten f¸r eine Gans, dann nimm eine

Gans, die jung und gut im Futter sein soll oder auch etwas ‰lter, und

hebe die Haut wie bei einem Huhn ab (so dafl zwischen Fleisch und Haut

Zwischenr‰ume f¸r die F¸llung entstehen).  Zerstofle Knoblauch und Pfeffer

in einem Steinmˆrser, und f¸lle die Gans (unter der Haut) damit und auch

mit (ebensfalls zerkleinerten) Wacholderbeeren.  Stopfe diese F¸llung

auch ins Innere der Gans, und hacke (vorher) Speck dazu und gr¸ne, also

ungetrocknete Weinbeeren, soviel du mˆchtest, und f¸lle dann die Gans

damit.

 

If you wish to prepare a filling for a goose, then take a goose, that is

young and good in its feet [a method of telling how healthy the goose

was] or else also one a little older, and raise the skin as you do for a

hen, (so that between the flesh and the skin there is room for the

filling). Pound garlic and pepper in a stone mortar, and fill the goose

with this and also with ground juniper berries.  Stuff this filling also

inside the goose, and chop bacon into it and green, fresh wine grapes, as

much as you want, and fill the goose with it.

 

>>Is there some reason people can't just pick them off their juniper

bushes? I can't stand even the smell of them myself, but they're common

landscaping plants around here.<<

 

I asked a neighbor who has a landscaping business.  He thought some

junipers might have poison berries, didn't know about mine.  You'd need

to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this.

 

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com

 

 

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:49:33 +0200 (MET DST)From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - longOn Mon, 22 May 2000 allilyn at juno.com wrote:> bushes? I can't stand even the smell of them myself, but they're common> landscaping plants around here.<<> > I asked a neighbor who has a landscaping business.  He thought some> junipers might have poison berries, didn't know about mine.  You'd need> to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this.Juniperus communis is eminently edible. Remember that the berries(actually not berries, but a kind of "berry-cones") take three years toripen. Pick them when they are bluish black./UlfR- -- Par Leijonhufvud                                     parlei at algonet.se

 

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:01:11 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - long

 

allilyn at juno.com writes:

<< You'd need

to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this. >>

 

Are the berries cone like when viewed closely? There are a number of

evergreens usually referred to as 'junipers' in the US that resemble true

junipers in appearance but the berries are very different.

 

True juniper has round smooth berries that a dark, almost black in

appearance. The other juniper has berries that are scaled and have a light

bluish powder on them throughtout most of the season.

 

You really don't have to be all that careful. True junipers are the source of

the spice juniper berry. While the other is not. Any juniper that has smooth

round dark berries is edible.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:25:04 -0700

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

Subject: Corianders  WAS : SC - Charlemagne + St. Gall

 

Balthazar asks about green coriander vs corander seed.  Apicius actually

uses both & specifies between the two.  "coriandrum viridium"  and

"coriandri semen".  I'm fairly certain I've seen fresh coriander (cilantro)

called for elsewhere as well (recently no less), but of course I cant recall

where at the moment and I've been looking at a LOT of books lately...

 

Eden

 

 

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:44:02 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Lavender/Spicanardi/Spikenard?

 

Clotild asked:

> Is spicanardi the same as spikenard?  Can lavender be substituted?

 

Francesco Sirene pipes up to assure her that spicanardi is the same thing as

spikenard, which definitely is *not* lavender. The confusion comes from the

fact that there is a variety of lavender known as "spike" lavender, which

may on occasion be known as spica or spike. But when the term "nard" in any

form comes in as part of the term, it is spikenard which is referred to, not

lavender. (And just coincidentally, we can supply the genuine stuff, if you

need some for that strange recipe -- actually, if anyone does have strange

recipes using spikenard, and can report on the results, we'd be interested

to hear).

 

Yours spicily,

Francesco

David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net

partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net

Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/

 

 

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 14:36:52 +0200

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - Lavender/Spicanardi/Spikenard?

 

Thanks Francesco/David for your clarification! However, I have an

additional question about [4] in your answer:

 

<< Francesco Sirene pipes up to assure her

[1] that spicanardi is the same thing as spikenard,

[2] which definitely is *not* lavender.

[3] The confusion comes from the fact that there is a variety of

lavender known as "spike" lavender, which may on occasion be known as

spica or spike.

[4] But when the term "nard" in any form comes in as part of the term,

it is spikenard which is referred to, not lavender. >> [Numbers added]

 

Am I right to assume, that [4] is a statement about our modern language

use?

 

Is [4] true in respect to former centuries and to the expressions of

different languages, too? I am not so sure:

 

- -- Marzell treats the German expression "spike-narde" under Lavandula

latif. (I don't have the dictionary at hand, only the index vol.), and

the huge Deutsches Wˆrterbuch gives many examples where the expression

"spikenarde" is used to refer to lavender.

- -- In the herbal of Tabernaemontanus, it is said "dafl der Spicanard und

der Lavendel einander fast ‰hnlich und verwandt seyn" (that "Spicanard"

und "Lavendel" are very much alike and close relatives in various

respects) and that lavender was also called _Spicanardus foemina_

(_female Spicanardus_).

- -- The Dizionario etimologico della lingua italiana says that _spigo_

and _spigonardo_ meant 'lavanda', and in the entry _Lavanda_ they quote

a passage from the herbal of Matthiolus: "Toscanamente dicesi _spigo_"

(in the dialect of the Toscana, lavender is called _spigo_).

- -- The OED gives as meaning (3) of _spikenard_: "3. + a. Lavender. Obs.

(Cf. spike n.1 4.)

1563 T. Hill Art Garden. (1593) 94 Lauender is an hearbe sweet in

smelling; [and] for that it giueth no lesse sauor than the Spike, is of

the same named Spikenard.

1579 Langham Gard. Health (1633) 622 Spikenard (see Lauender).

1736 N. Bailey Household Dict. s.v., Spikenard or Lavender Spike."

 

Thus, it seems at least _possible_ to me, that in former centuries

people were refering to (some kind of) lavender, using terms like fr.

"espic", it. "spigo", "spico", "spigonardo", germ. "spikanarde" or engl.

"spikenard".

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Best,

Thomas

 

 

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:23:40 -0700

From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at aracnet.com>

Subject: SC - Herbs in Pregnancy.

 

From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>

>         Could someone tell me what herbs cause abortions? I know there is

>at least one, but I can't remember the name. I am putting on a small

>medieval feast for some friends and one of them is pregnant and I do not

>want to cause a miscarriage.

 

When one is pregnant, you should avoid Goldenseal (it reduces blood flow to

the baby) and Pennyroyal (as it is an abortifactant).  Ginseng increases

blood flow, but should be avoided by people who have heart conditions or

high blood pressure (many women, myself included, get Pregnancy Induced

Hypertension - PIH and so should avoid Ginseng for this reason.  High Blood

Pressure reduces blood flow to the baby, and thus reduces the oxygen the

baby receives).  There are other herbs that should be avoided in pregnancy

also, but these are the most commonly available that I can think of at the

moment. Garlic can help reduce Blood Pressure in anyone, but particularly

in pregnancy can also cause heartburn or gas.  It is worth a try

though! You usually know within 2 hours if it is going to bother you or

not.    Nutmeg and clary sage are essential oils that should be avoided

durning pregnancy as well, so I would reccommend going light on the nutmeg

(though in it's spice form, the essential oil content is so low, that it is

not as much to worry about - I know I had many cups of hot milk with honey,

cinnamon, nutmeg and vanilla to help fight off the insomnia when I was

pregnant!). I don't really know of too many herbs that are used in cooking

which would be harmful.  Most are herbs that people take for other reasons,

like Goldenseal is a good antiviral.

 

Red Raspberry is an excellent herb for pregnancy, as it tones the uterus

and increases the oxygen to the baby.  Red raspberry tea would be an

excellent beverage to serve (though I personally do not know about it's

authenticity as a Medival Herb, you'll have to ask the experts on that

one). Spearmint (which Spearmint OIL should not be used on babies for some

reason - I never have found out why) is good for reducing nausea in

pregnancy. As is Ginger.

 

I can get out my herbal books and see what more detail I can find if you

are interested?  This is what I know from memory.

 

God bless you!  Have fun with your feast!

- -Laurene

 

 

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:43:12 -0700

From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at aracnet.com>

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2458

 

I'm sending this message both to the list and privately.  I probably should

have sent the last one the same way, but didn't think about it until after

I sent it off without the carbon copy.

 

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

>There's the rub... depending on the individual, most if not all herbs CAN

>cause an abortion... I've heard cautions against, hyssop, oregano, mints,

>cinnamon, ginger, marjoram, pennyroyal... you get the picture.

 

My Dr. reccomended Candied Ginger to help with Morning Sickness.  I have

never heard of it CAUSING an abortion???  That is a new one.  Pennyroyal

has long been known to be harmful.  I believe it can cause bleeding, which

kills not only the baby, but can kill the mother also.  It would NOT be a

fun thing!!!

 

Here is a link to THE BEST Medicinal Herbal that I have ever found.

http://www.dk.com/us/shared/product.asp?ISBN=156458187X

 

You can browse the complete book online (you can't with ALL the DK books, I

guess I've just gotten lucky referencing the ones on topic here?) to find

any other information you might think is relevant.

 

This is "The Encyclopedia of Herbs, Spices and Flavorings - a Cooks

Compendium" by Elizabeth Lambert Ortiz.  As the title indicates, it is more

related to cooking than to medicinal use, and is arranged quite differently.

http://www.dk.com/us/shared/product.asp?ISBN=1564580652

 

You can order either of these books online using reference number:

us96659h, to get the Discounts.

 

Another great book on herbs is "The Encyclopedia of Herbs and Spices" By

Sarah Garland (if I remember correctly).  I could never find the book for

sale when I had the money, so I check it out from the library quite

often. I don't know the publisher.

 

- -Laurene

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:26:07 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

 

Phillipa asks:

>I saved this recipe when Clotild of Soissons posted it and now I have some

>questions if you please,

>1> Can humans eat catnip?  I thought it was poisonous for humans.  And

>anyway, I don't have catnip nor pennyroyal.  Never having tasted either, are

>there any suggestions on what to use to replace it?

>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I

>use to replace these flavors?

 

I will send what i've found in several posts, rather than one long one.

 

PART ONE: CATNIP AND PENNYROYAL

 

- --- CATNIP ---

 

Botanical Name: Nepeta cataria or Nepeta mussinii , Labiatae (mint family)

Common Names: catnep or catmint. French: chataire, Herbe aux Chats;

Spanish: menta de gato, hierba gatera, nebeda.

 

Catnip is a grey-green, leafy member of the mint family, with downy,

heart-shaped leaves that are green above and whitish below.. This

hardy, robust perennial was originally grown throughout Europe, and

was native to the dry regions of the Mediterranean, inland Europe,

Asia, Eurasia and Africa. It has been used as a remedy for headaches,

coughs, cold symptoms, as a sleeping aid, and to calm tension and

anxiety.

 

Is is quite safe for human consumption.

 

- --- PENNYROYAL ---

 

Pennyroyal is also edible; i've drunk tea made of it, probably

American Pennyroyal. The herb is generally considered safe to use in

reasonable quantities, but in *very large* quantities it can cause

contractions of the uterus, so pregnant women should avoid it.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use Pennyroyal oil as an overdose can be

fatal.

 

1. EUROPEAN PENNYROYAL

 

Botanical Name: Mentha Pulegium (LINN.), Family: N.O. Labiatae

Common Names: Pulegium. Run-by-the-Ground. Lurk-in-the-Ditch. Pudding

Grass. Piliolerial.

Part Used: Herb.

 

From Mrs. Grieve's Herbal:

This species of Mint, a native of most parts of Europe and parts of

Asia, is the Pulegium of the Romans, so named by Pliny from its

reputed power of driving away fleas - pulex being the Latin for flea,

hence the Italian pulce and the French puce. This name given the

plant in ancient times has been retained as its modern specific name.

It is sometimes known to the country-people as 'Run by the Ground'

and 'Lurk in the Ditch,' from its manner of growth.

 

It was formerly much used in medicine, the name Pennyroyal being a

corruption of the old herbalists' name 'Pulioll-royall' (Pulegium

regium), which we meet also in the Middle Ages as 'Piliole-rial.' It

has been known to botanists since the time of Linnaeus as Mentha

Pulegium.

 

One of its popular names is 'Pudding Grass,' from being formerly used

in stuffings for hog's puddings ('grass' being, like 'wort,' a word

simply meaning 'herb'). It is still used abroad in various culinary

preparations, but in this country it is now in disuse, as its taste

and odour is too pronounced.

 

2. AMERICAN PENNYROYAL

 

In North America, there's a native plant that is called Pennyroyal,

but is not quite the same thing used in Europe. So be sure you know

the botanical name of what you get.

 

Botanical Name: Hedeoma pulegioides (L.) Pers.

Common names: Mock Pennyroyal. Squaw Mint. Squaw Balm. Stinking Balm.

Tickweed. Mosquito plant.

 

The entire herb has a strong mintlike odor and pungent taste.

 

- ---------------------

 

Since both Catnip and both Pennyroyals are mints, you could

substitute mint for each of them, although it certainly wouldn't

taste exactly the same. In my experience, mint tastes stronger than

both catnip and pennyroyal. But catnip shouldn't be hard to find :-)

 

If you do use mint, use much less than the recipe calls for. I

believe that the fresh mint found in markets is usually spearmint.

While i really dislike the taste of spearmint dried, i don't mind the

flavor of fresh mint.

 

Anahita

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:32:38 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

 

PART TWO

 

Phillipa asks:

>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I

>use to replace these flavors?

 

- --- COSTMARY ---

Costmary is a green herb, but i've never eaten any that i know of, so

i can't describe the taste.

 

* Botanical Name: OLD: Tanacetum balsamita (LINN.), Family: N.O.

Compositae NEW: Chrysanthemum balsamita OR Compositae Chrysanthemum

majus (Desf.)

 

* Vernacular Names: Alecost. Balsam Herb. Balsamita. (French) Herbe

Sainte-Marie. Mint geranium. Bible Leaf because its long fragrant

leaves were used as bookmarks.

 

* Part Used: Leaves.

 

* Uses: The leave are sweet-scented but somewhat bitter tasting. One

web page describes the scent thus "The leaves emit a powerful aroma

of menthol, lemon and sage." Grieve says: "On account of the aroma

and taste of its leaves, Costmary was much used to give a spicy

flavouring to ale - whence its other name, Alecost. The fresh leaves

were also used in salads and in pottage, and dried are often put into

pot-pourri, as they retain their aroma."

 

For photo see:

http://www.belgianexperts.com/costmary.htm

 

- -----

 

Spikenard to follow...

 

Anahita

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:59:54 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

 

PART THREE

 

Phillipa asks:

>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I

>use to replace these flavors?

 

The root is the part that is used. There are several plants go by the

name "spikenard", so you'd have to keep alert. Here's what else i've

been able to find about Spikenard.

 

- --- SPIKENARD ---

 

1. INDIAN SPIKENARD:

 

It has a long somewhat mythic history as an ancient Biblical scent.

Apparently it also has a reputation as an aphrodesiac...

 

Botanical name: Nardostachys jatamansi and Nardostachys, Family Valeriananceae

 

Other Names: Nard. False Indian Valerian.

 

The following details come from

http://www.therapure.com/yleo/spikenard.htm

 

Aroma Characteristics: A peaty, earthy, animal-like fragrance

reminiscent of goats.

 

History: In India, Spikenard was highly regarded as a perfume,

medicinal herb, and as a skin tonic. It was also prized in the Middle

East during the time of Christ, and there are several passages in the

Bible referring to spikenard. In the Song of Solomon spikenard

appears in Chapter 1 verse 12, and Chapter 4 verses 13-1: "While the

king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell

thereof." Spikenard is also the herb used by Mary of Bethany to

anoint the feet of Jesus before the Last Supper: "then took Mary a

pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of

Jesus" (John 12:3). In a passage of the Gospel of St. Mark, another

woman anoints the head of Jesus with spikenard: "And being in Bethany

in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a

woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious;

and she brake the box, and poured it on his head" (Mark 14:3).

 

Roman perfumers used the essential oil of spikenard to prepare

nardinum, a scented oil of great renown during ancient times. The

Mughal empress, Nur Jehan, also deployed spikenard in her

rejuvenating cosmetic preparations.

 

The oil is known for being helpful for allergic skin reactions, and

according to Victoria Edwards, "The oil redresses the skin's

physiological balance and causes permanent regeneration."

 

From another webpage:

 

History: Spikenard is one of the early aromatics used by the ancient

Egyptians and is mentioned in the Song of Solomon in the Bible.  It

is also the herb that Mary used to anoint Jesus before the Last

Supper. The oil was also used by the Roman perfumers in the

preparation of nardinum, one of their most celebrated scented oils,

and by the Mughal empress Nur Jehan in her rejuvenating cosmetic

preparations. It was also a herb known to Dioscorides as 'warming

and drying', good for nausea, flatulent indigestion, menstrual

problems, inflammations and conjunctivitis.  The perfume is actually

in the lower hairy stems (the Indian name jatamansi refers to the

shaggy hair, or 'ermine tails', covering the stems).

 

Several other pages describes the fragrance as a heavy sweet-woody,

spicy-animal odour, somewhat similar to valerian oil.

 

2. AMERICAN SPIKENARD

 

It is hardly likely that this is what is used in a Medieval European recipe.

 

Botanical Name: Aralia racemosa (LINN.), Family: N.O. Araliaceae

 

Vernacular Names: American Spikenard. Spignet. Life of Man.

Pettymorell. Old Man's Root. Indian Spikenard. Indian Root.

 

Part Used: Root.

 

From Mrs. Grieve's Herbal:

Description---The much-branched stem grows from 3 to 6 feet high.

Very large leaves, consisting of thin oval heart-shaped, double

saw-toothed leaflets. Small greenish flowers in many clusters -

blooming later than Aralia medicaulis (for which it is often

substituted), July to August. Has roundish red-brown berries going

dark purple. Root-stock thick and large, spicy and aromatic. Fracture

of cortex short, of the wood also short and fibrous. Odour aromatic,

taste mucilaginous, pungent and slightly acrid. Transverse section of

root shows thick bark, several zones containing oil. The plant grows

freely in the author's garden.

 

- --------

 

So there are two different Spikenards. I can't tell you from personal

experience what the most significant differences are. Some vendors do

not make clear the distinction between the two. So it helps to know

the botanical name.

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:05:34 -0700

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2587

 

Nisha Martin wrote:

> If you get the chance to taste pennyroyal, do (unless you're pregnant,

> of course.  Better safe than sorry.)

> Yes, it's definately an herb to avoid during

> pregnancy. It is an old herbal remedy to start a

> sluggish period, and in enough quantity can produce a

> miscarriage. Tansy is another to avoid during

> pregnancy, for the same reason

> Nisha

 

I got very, very sick taking too much pennyroyal and tansy once.  Let's just say

I was young and stupid.  Nausea that wouldn't stop, and as it turned out I

wasn't pregnant anyway.  Pennyroyal does have a very nice taste, but I've no

taste for it anymore.

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:29:32 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: Paprika and Oregano (was Re: SC - Pumpkins and such...)

> this may be a silly question, but what's the difference (besides where they

> come from, of course) between Hungarian Paprika and Spanish Paprika and

> between "Mexican Oregano" and what is normally labled simply as "Oregano"

> in the spice section of the grocery store.

 

'Mexican oregano' is a plant of the Mint family; 'oregano' is the greek or

italian stuff, actually 'wild marjoram' or 'oregany' in period texts.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:47:47 -0500 (EST)

To: SCA-Cooks maillist <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A silly question

 

> He(?) also says:

> Oregano is hardier than majoram and consequently enjoys a wider

> distribution.  Majoram sticks close to the Mediterranean basin, where

> it was born. Oregano penetrates even into quite cool areas of the

> temperate zone; it grows wild in England, for instance. When it first

> appeared there in 1597, John Gerard called it in his _Herball_,

> "Bastard Majerome of Candy," that is, of Ceylon.

 

Let me check Bancke's Herbal of 1512, which mentions oregany. I think the

Bastard Majerome of Candy was a special cultivar.

 

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

 

 

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:31:31 +1000

From: "Jones, Craig" <Craig.Jones at airservices.gov.au>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #2322/Rhachitis

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Organization: Airservices Australia

 

>      Is 'angelica archangelica' the herb angelica??  Nothing was

> capitalized in the text, so I am not clear if this is a Latin name.

> (Trying to get some food content in--)

 

Yes.  I have a vague recollection that it grows like a weed in a

Greenland spring and was eaten as a vegetable.  But importantly,

Angelica Archangelica is the herb Angelica.  Be careful when buying it

at a plant nursery because there is another related medicinal - Angelica

sinensis (Chinese Angelica) which is often sold too.

 

Drake.

 

 

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 19:23:04 -0400

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lovage and Rue

 

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:

> Lovage

> Many of the Roman recipes i'm looking at call for lovage as a green

> herb. While i may be able to turn up lovage seeds, i doubt i'll be

> able to find it fresh.

> It has been suggested that modern cooks substitute celery leaves for

> lovage leaves. Does anyone have experience using actual fresh lovage?

> And if yes, can you verify this substitution?

 

I've worked with dried lovage, anyway. It's pretty darned close.

There's a variety of celery you sometimes see in Chinese groceries

which is mostly leaf with a skinny stalk; that's even closer.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:02:27 -0400 (EDT)

From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Growing Herbs

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> Use sweet woodruff sparingly; it contains coumarin, if I remember

> right, which is a carcinogen.

 

Ah, but it makes an excellent strewing herb (and is good in potpourris and sachets if you do them...)

 

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:52:18 -0400

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] plea for help-- Soup for the Qan

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 11:52 AM, <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

wrote:

>> Does asafoetida have binding properties to it? (Like cracker meal, or

>> eggs or something)

> Well, asafoetida is a resin, so it might have some binding properties....

> But I'd be sceptical it was enough.

 

Especially considering how asafoetida is incredibly potent.  I can't

imagine anyone using more than a pinch of it in anything.  We keep the

jars of that stuff sealed in plastic bags so it doesn't ... um ...

alter the flavor of the spices in the nearby jars.

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Daniel Myers

   http://www.thegoatinthegarden.com/

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:20:07 -0400

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] plea for help-- Soup for the Qan

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:03 AM, Maggie MacDonald wrote:

> No asafoetida, and the clerks had no idea of what i was talking about.

 

We sell asafoetida at The Goat in the Garden's web site.

http://www.thegoatinthegarden.com

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Daniel Myers

 

 

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:38:4 -0500 (CDT)

From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>

Subject: Pennyroyal (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Period or no?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>

> Theres always a nice barley pottage, with whatever root veggies you want to

> add. Enrich it with onion soup, garlic broth, or whatever.

> -------------------------------

> I just tried one of the recipes in Henry Marks' book on Byzantine

> cooking.  Most of them are conjectural, since they are based on

> descriptions of food, and monastery menus, but this one is pretty

> straight forward.

> To paraphrase, the original description says to cook lentils in water

> with barley, leeks, dill, oil, and vinegar; and if you desire, savory

> or pennyroyal.  (As pennyroyal can be unsafe, Marks substitutes mint,

> which is in the same family.)  Use less barley than lentils, so they

> don't absorb all the liquid.

 

Just as a note, pennyroyal, though in the mint family, does not actually

taste like mint. I used to use pennyroyal tea for migraines (and we can

argue relative toxicity later) and it tastes more woody and not really

minty. Kind of like thyme, actually. I want to say it tastes like oregano

would if you took out all the strong oregano flavor, but that probably

makes very little sense to most people.

 

So one is probably better off leaving it out rather than substituting mint

for pennyroyal, at least if you're going for something that tastes

right.

 

Margaret FitzWilliam

 

 

Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:20:43 -0800

From: renart the fox <renart at centurytel.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On 12/29/2004 04:09:04 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Maire commented:

>> Mac, my orange/marmalade/ginger kitty, says to tell everyone that he

>> scored multiple presents involving catnip, so he's a happy boy! ;o) He

>> figures that since it's an herb, and he eats it, it's safe to mention

>> on the list!

> Which begs the question, Was catnip mentioned in period? Was it

> mentioned in connection with cats? Or is there some other use of this

> herb which has now gone out style or has been submerged in the idea

> of giving it to your pet cat?

 

The following links give some insight towards catnip (Nepeta cataria)

and its uses in the Middle Ages.

 

http://www.penmarric.ns.ca/catcare/usefulinfo/catnip.htm

 

http://www.englishplants.co.uk/catmint.html

 

http://norcrossws.org/norcross/Herb/medicinalbed.htm

--

Renart (the fox) of Berwick

 

 

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:10:08 -0800 (PST)

From: Samrah <auntie_samrah at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Catnip - probably more information than you would

        like   to know

To: Cooks within te SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I maintain a personal herbal for use at events, home, etc. It is done

in periodish style, a bit more organized tan most herbals in period,

with goodly sized computerized calligraphy and duty free period

illustrations. As it is not a research paper or designed for

competition, the information in this volume is not specifically

footnoted. I do have a solid biblioraphy, but at this point to

footnote specific facts would not be time-efficient. Please note that

to insure the most accurate information, most of my sources are

current-day.

 

With that qualification, Hope this helps ~ Samrah

 

CATNIP Nepeta cataria

 

Alo known as: Mentioned by Gerard as "Catmint", although there are

also plants called catmint.

 

Description: Hardy perennial with sprawling stems and fine toothed

leaves covered with white downy-like fuzz and white or pink flowers.

Grows up to three feet tall and two feet wide. Its fragrance is said to

resemble a combination of Camphor, Thyme & Pennyroyal.

 

Notes: The infamous stuffing for catnip mice, but did you know that the

same herb that keys kittens up, winds children down and calms upset

tummies? The genus name may be derived from the Roman town of Nepti,

where catnip was said to grow profusely. Routinely grown in the Gardens

of the Cloisters (NY Met Museum recreation of period garden).

 

Properties*: Colds, flu, insomnia, stress, indigestion, andruff,

bruises & joint pain.

 

Uses: Salads, teas, stews & roasts. Famous for use in cat toys and also

deters insects.

 

*It is not the intent of the author to diagnose or prescribe. This

information for reference and historical interest only.

 

Bibliogaphy (complete book specifics available upon request)

 

Bremess (editor), Herbs, 1990.

Edinger & Eyre, Herbs - An Illustrated Guide, 1994.

Lathrop, Herbs - How to Select, Grow & Enjoy, 1981.

Lawless, The Encyclopedia of Essential Oils, 1992.

Ody, The Cmplete Medicinal Herbal,1993.

Oster, Ortho's All About Herbs, 1999.

Tierra, Planetary Herbology, 1988.

Woodward (editor), Gerard's Herbal, 1994.

 

Much communication from Paige North at the Cloisters Gardens of the New

York Met. Museum.

 

Some facts were also verified by the New Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998.

 

 

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:56 -0800 (PST)

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Oh, by the way.... the website I went to seems to indicate that there is evidence of catnip uses throughout history, but does not give sources.  Here is the citation, both historical AND on topic...

 

"Herbalists have used catnip for many centuries as a treatment for colic, headache, fever, toothache, colds, and spasms. Catnip is an excellent sleep-inducing agent (as with valerian, in certain individuals it acts as a stimulant). Both people and cats find catnip to be emetic in large doses. It exhibits antibacterial properties and may be useful as an anti-atherosclerotic

agent. It is used as an adjunct in treated dysmenorrhea and is given in tincture form to aid amenorrhea. 15th century English cooks would rub catnip leaves on meats before cooking and add it to mixed green salads. Before Chinese tea became widely available, catnip tea was very popuar."

 

William de Grandfort

 

 

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 01:43:11 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Catnip - probably more information than you

        would  like to know

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

From Platina, on calamint:

What is called nepeta [calamint] in our popular language the Greeks call

calaminthe. It is of great strenght and powerful in heat, whence it

deserves to be ascribed to the very best antidotes, for it is considered

useful to stomach and chese, loosens and purges phlegm of head and

thorax, heals the liver, destroys hardness of the spleen, drives out

stone, and moves the urine. Not only alone but also with other herbs, it

is very beneficial for those thigns we have mentioned when it has been

pounded and sieved and crushed.

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:13:20 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Ok this is from Hildegarde of Bingen's Physica:

"Catnip (nebetta) is hot. A person with scrofula, which has not yet

ruptured, on his neck should pulverize catnip. He should often eat this

powder with bread or in a puree, or in little cakes, and the scrofula

will vanish If the pustules are broken, place fresh, uncooked catnip

leaves over them. the scrofula will dry up."

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:48:22 -0600

From: "Lisa" <silvina at allegiance.tv>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

>>> 

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book

> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for edible

> or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are your

> favorites?

> Sharon

<<< 

 

In my opinion your best bet is an Encyclopedia of herbs.  I have two,

Encyclopedia of Herbs by Deni Bown

The illustrated herb encyclopedia by Kathi Keville

 

They tend to have historical uses, medical uses, aromatherapy uses, etc, and

if I remember correctly, dye uses is also included.  The one by Deni Brown

is newer and has more herbs listed.

 

Elizabeta of Rundel

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:55:02 -0500

From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book

> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for

> edible or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are  

> your favorites?

> Sharon

 

try "The Complete Medicinal Herbal" by Penelope Ody

ISBN: 1-56458-187-x

 

Is one of the better ones in my collection

 

radei

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:04:41 -0500

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

   A Dyer's Garden by Rita Buchanan

Not just period dyes, although many are.

 

Ranvaig

 

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book

> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for edible

> or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are your

> favorites?

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:16:13 EST

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb  book

> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good  details for

> edible or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a  bonus!  

> What are your favorites?

 

The Herb Book by John Lust. I have several printings. Every now and  

then he updates and adds more information.

 

Corwyn

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:38:59 -0400

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

Subject: Subject: Re: arugula..was Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

That is why I added "maybe", because I wasn't sure if arugula was  

rocket or not.

 

There is no need for "maybe" arugula is /Eruca vesicaria/, i.e.  

rocket. It is an herb

no longer  in use today, except in rural areas. It is an annual  

native of Asia and Southern Europe. It was cultivated in all medieval  

gardens on the Mediterranean during the Middle Age. It seems to have  

been unknown in France

and England. The plant contains jamba oil, used initially for making  

pickles. After six months the oil loses its acrid taste and is then  

used for cooking, as a lubricant and for burning. Young leaves,  

having a sharp hot taste, were eaten in salads and

used to season stews. The salads were well liked in the 15^th  C.  

Rocket is diuretic used to relieve stomach upsets; rubbed on skin it  

causes local reddening. Like mustard, rocket was thought to be hot and  

excited one to perform lechery.

 

 

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:25:29 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Chickweed pie

To: "Christiane" <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, "Cooks within the

        SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Gerard gives chickweed as a cure for mange (IIRC).  If it appears in Swiss

or German recipes, it will probably be as Huhnerdarm, Vogelmuur or

Sternmiere.

 

Bear

 

> I was in Lancaster County, Pa., this past weekend and I picked up a book of

> Pennsylvania Dutch cooking at the Landis Valley Museum. It's William Woys

> Weaver's book.

> I am wondering as the origins of this recipe, which is essentially a

> quiche made with eggs, sour cream, pieces of bacon fried crisp, onions,

> cinnamon, and the chickweed of course. Since settlers in the region came

> from a wide swathe of Germany as well as Switzerland, I wondered if there

> was a tradition of cooking with chickweed in any of these regions and how

> far back that went. I am not assuming the pie is a period recipe, just

> wondering if there was chickweed used in medieval German/Swiss  

> cooking.

> Gianotta

 

 

Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 02:35:41 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Chicken Salad

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

According to the Oxford Companion to Food, Safflower, Carthamus tinctorius, a plant of West Asia, which is a member of the sunflower and thistle family, and  

resembles a thistle with deep orange flowers.  These flowers yield orange and red dyes which were in use from very early times (witness a mention in an Egyptian inscription of 3000 BC).

 

Even in early times safflower was also used in cookery as an adulterant of, or substitute for, the much more expensive saffron; hence many common names such as  

'bastard saffron'.

 

+++++++

 

So, no, safflower isn't a new world plant.

 

Huette

 

--- Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> wrote:

> Isn't safflower a new world plant, related to the sunflower?

> --AM

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:10:03 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:

 

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've

> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use

> it in, if any.

 

It's used extensively in Indian cookery, probably most often in fish

dishes. Maybe you could do a Web search for "hing powder" and find

some pretty standard recipes calling for it. Tastes a little like a

mixture of musk and garlic, to me.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:24:50 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've

> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use

> it in, if any.

 

For a medieval English example, Katherine Seymour Hertford's

commonplace book calls for treating toothaches with asafoetida:

 

Ffor the Ache of a hollow toothe

 

Take Asfa Ffetyda and put yt

on the tothe that ys hollow and yt wi[ll]

apease and take awaye the ache

 

[The commonplace book of Countess Katherine Seymour Hertford (1567)

http://www.medievalcookery.com/notes/mscodex823.txt ]

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

   Pasciunt, mugiunt, confidiunt.

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:58:06 -0800

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

At 02:47 PM 2/28/2007,Ian Kusz said something like:

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've

> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use  

> it in, if any.

> Ian of Oertha

 

Soup for the Qan called for asafoetida in the Fishball recipe, the

ingredients were: large carp (skined, boned), sheeps tail (minced), fresh

ginger, onions, pepper, mandarin orange peel, black pepper, and kasni

(asafoetida).

 

It was a yummy recipe, and it had fussy eaters asking for more (which

quietly boggled me at the time).

 

Maggie MacD.

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:19:55 -0800

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On 2/28/07 2:47 PM, "Ian Kusz" <sprucebranch at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice?  I've

> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use  

> it in, if any.

> Ian of Oertha

 

Primarily used in Southern Asian cuisine these days;  India, Pakistan.  It

shares some vague similarity of bouquet with garlic, so the same sorts of

dishes in which you would use garlic.  Good for people with  

sensitivity to alliums.

 

Use in very small amounts at first or you will really get the full  

impact of the "foetid" part of the name.

 

Selene Colfox, Caid

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:40:22 -0300

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Ian Kusz wrote:

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a  

> spice? . . . wanted to know what "kind" of food they use

> it in, if any.

 

   Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from

silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to silphium

or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The

Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium". The Ancients

added "it" to food in small quantities to give it a fragrant effect. Too

much spoils the food. Romans used "it" as a condiment as much as

liquamen. It is thought that "it" was used for its aphrodisiac effect

and was used in food prepared for banquets especially. Apicius calls for

silphium root in his recipes while Flower uses asafoetida when trying

them. She indicates that it must be used sparingly but states that the

flavor is delicious. She recommends it for fish especially. In North

Africa "it" was grown especially in Cyrene where "it" was cultivated for

export. There "it" was used in medicine and in cooking.  The Anonymous

Al-Andalus 13th Century Cookbook calls for it in "Tabahaja," a dish of

fried goat's meat. Today several Middle Eastern recipes call for

asafoetida. [An?nimo/Huici.1966:250:149; Apicius/Flower. 1958:28-29; ES:

Anonymous/Perry. Sep 5, 02 and Pullar. 1970:242]

 

   Unfortunately I have not had time yet to review Flower's translation

to see what recipes call for it.  I have no data on medieval cookery in

North African or on modern Middle Eastern recipes as I do not handle

those subjects.

 

Suey

 

 

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:19:40 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 28, 2007, at 8:40 PM, Suey wrote:

 

> Apicius calls for silphium root in his recipes while Flower uses

> asafoetida when trying

> them. She indicates that it must be used sparingly but states that the

> flavor is delicious. She recommends it for fish especially. In North

> Africa "it" was grown especially in Cyrene where "it" was

> cultivated for

> export. There "it" was used in medicine and in cooking.  The Anonymous

> Al-Andalus 13th Century Cookbook calls for it in "Tabahaja," a dish of

> fried goat's meat. Today several Middle Eastern recipes call for

> asafoetida. [An?nimo/Huici.1966:250:149; Apicius/Flower.

> 1958:28-29; ES:

> Anonymous/Perry. Sep 5, 02 and Pullar. 1970:242]

>     Unfortunately I have not had time yet to review Flower's translation

> to see what recipes call for it.  I have no data on medieval cookery in

> North African or on modern Middle Eastern recipes as I do not handle

> those subjects.

 

Here's what Flower and Rosenbaum have to say on laserpitium (the term

I believe most often appearing in Apicius) in the introduction to

their 1958 edition of De Re Coquinaria:

 

> Finally, at least a word must be said about the famous silphium,

> also called laserpitium and laser. Pliny has devoted a long chapter

> to this herb (XIX, 3, 15 if. (38 ff.)). From him and Theophrastus

> (Hist. plant. VI, 3) we gain a great deal of information about it.

> The silphium grew in abundance in Cyrenaica, and was one of the

> chief exports of that province. It had become a kind of symbol of

> Cyrenaica, so that it appears on the coins of Cyrene, and even on

> reliefs. But in spite of all this no one has been able to identify

> the plant. In fact, it was already extinct in Cyrenaica in Pliny's

> time. He says that only a small quantity could be discovered under

> Nero, and this was sent to him. Otherwise it was only from Persia,

> Armenia, and Media that silphium was still imported, but this was

> of far inferior quality to that of Cyrenaica. The silphium from

> Cyrenaica was apparently expensive even when it was still grown in

> great quantities. Pliny mentions that under the consulate of C.

> Valerius and M. Herennius B.c.) thirty pounds of silphium were sent

> to Rome and given to the State.

> Although the identity of the Cyrenaican silphium cannot be

> established, that of the Persian variety is fairly certain: it was

> most probably the asafoetida, also called Devil's dung. This plant

> has retained its importance in the Middle East to this day, and it

> is used for pharmaceutical purposes also in the north.

> We know from Pliny that the juice of both the stem and the root was

> used. Its costliness is well illustrated by our recipe I, x: how to

> make an ounce of silphium last. The Cyrenaican variety is mentioned

> expressly only twice in our book; usually it simply prescribes

> 'laser.' Apicius himself may still have known and used the

> Cyrenaican silphium, but our late fourth or early fifth?century

> compiler could only have known the Persian or Armenian varieties.

> In recipes where laser is prescribed we have used asafoetida

> extract obtainable at chemists. It is very strong, and must be used

> with the utmost caution. The tiniest drop gives just enough

> flavour. If more than a minute quantity is taken the entire dish

> may be spoiled. But, used with care, it gives a delicious flavour,

> especially in combination with fish.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:58:05 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

>     Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from

> silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to silphium

> or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The

> Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium".

 

Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the

first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact. Asafoetida

was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:32:01 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

 

>>     Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from

>> silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to

>> silphium

>> or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The

>> Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium".

> Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the

> first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact.

> Asafoetida

> was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.

 

Flower and Rosenbaum seem to share this view, more or less. I don't

think it's as much matter of true versus non-true silphium, as

different varieties (which may or may not be the same species, 1st-

century taxonomy being what it was) being considered superior to

others. Kinda like Umbrian black truffles being considered inferior

to those from Perigord. I gather that the "true" silphium is the

Cyrenaican variety, but that Armenian and Persian silphium, which

were apparently what was used when the Cyrenaican variety became

unavailable, were probably asafoetida. However, there's no way to

tell, in theory, at least during the "known academic time" between,

say, Pliny the Elder and F&R in 1958, what Cyrenaican silphium really

was... one of the cool subplots of Lindsey Davis' "Two For The Lions"

is Marcus Didius Falco's trip to North Africa with his brother-in-law-

to-be, embarked on a get-rich-quick scheme involving a search for

rumored Cyrenaican silphium growing wild among the rocks.

 

Now, in the mean time, I have, somewhere on the morass of my desk, a

packet of seeds alleged to be of whatever modernly-identified plant

species laserpitium actually was. I don't know if it's simply

asafoetida or what, but I recall there was some discussion here a

year or two ago, and someone (I think, Bear?) mentioned that laser had

been rediscovered, this was its modern botanical name, and I found a

place to order the seeds from. Hopefully there's more info on the

seed packet (I think I have about a half-ounce of tiny little seeds).

 

So, who will help me grow silphium, asked the Little Red Hen?

Assuming I can locate the seeds. Our balcony doesn't get that much

sun, and any plants we grow are more or less under squirrel siege

24-7...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:54:04 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] true silphium laserpitium was herb seasoning

        question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I would recommend Andrew Dalby's account

in his book Dangerous Tastes the Story of Spices.

He covers both the extinct Silphium on pages 17-19

and later Asafoetida or hing on pages 110 - 112.

Oh and the book reproduces plates from a 1712 work that

first showed how the sap was gathered.

 

For an entry with a picture of the true variety from actual

Ancient Greek coins from Cyrenaika

see http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Silphion.html

Most recent mention that I could locate was:

Also see http://www.slate.com/id/2159800/   where just a

couple of weeks ago Slate mentioned that silphium was associated

with the Valentine's Day heart.

Also see

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?

id=aa128e68-c333-49a4-905f-3eb0f24e2334&k=13003

 

There are also several mentions in the Florilegium from times past.

 

Johnna

 

 

Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:43 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

>> Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the

>> first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact.  Asafoetida

>> was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.

> You have me stuck here. I thought asafoetida was extracted from

> silphium. So I  can't understand texts saying it was extinct during  

> the 1st C CE.

> Suey

 

Asafoetida is extracted from a number of plants in genus Ferula, primarily

Ferula asafoetida (L.).  F. asafoetida is believed to be the laser parthicum

which replaced silphium in Roman cooking.

 

Silphium, a Roman variant of the Greek silphion, is considered to be an

extinct species of Ferula.  The Romans referred to the plant as laser or

laserpicium. IIRC, Pliny describes the overgrazing and harvesting practices

that made the plant extinct.  The last plant harvested was sent to the

Emperor Nero.

 

There is scientific speculation that silphium is F. tingitana, which is a

nearly extinct species that is making a comeback in North Africa, but the

evidence is inconclusive.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:28:43 -0800

From: "Ian Kusz" <sprucebranch at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Are the seeds heart-shaped?  According the Cyrenican coin, they were  

on the actual silphium plant.

 

And according to my limited understanding, asafoetida was used

interchangably with "proper" silphium, thus the confusion.  REAL silphium

was considered superior, though; asafoetida was considered a less-expensive

(and inferior) substitute.

 

the "spice" is supposedly the resin from the plant; it becomes hard, and has

to be grated.  Conversely, nowadays, it's usually ground and mixed with an

agent like rice flour to keep it granular.

 

 

Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:40:05 -0400

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Aloe

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Avenzoar (1091-1161) said:

   "It is hot and dry; it dries excessive moisture in the stomach,

strengthens and fortifies this organ and is useful against nauseas

produced by an excess of moisture. It improves the breath, is beneficial

for the liver, it makes the urine flow and rids the stomach of excess

moisture and the rest of the body.

 

   "If used by a patient with too much saliva, it disappears. It is

extraordinarily beneficial for the elderly, hemiplegics and all those

with a corporal humor that is too humid.

 

   "Its fundamental property is the following: it strengthens the

sensitiveness of the mind, sharpening it and for that it is beneficial

in cases of difficulties of perceptiveness as in [those who suffer from

it among] the elderly and hemiplegics. Further it ties the residues of

excessive moisture existing in the stomach and the rest of the  

organism."

 

   I started researching aloe in Texas when visiting my college

roommate who always has the plant on hand. Her man told me that once she

burned herself very badly in the oven. He asked what he could he do to

help her. She told him to cut part of a leaf or whatever you call those

cactus things and apply the gue to the burn. He kept doing that and she

was cured in no time.

 

   After that he started drinking aloe water. It cured his very severe

psychosis. I followed suit drinking a gallon a day for four months. I

have not had any bouts with eczema and psychosis since and believe me my

eczema was bad. This year I had two ulcers due to pain medications and

started drinking a cup a day. My doctor cannot believe I was cured

faster than any patient he has ever had before and he is 62 years old!

 

   From the times of Avenvoar  in Spain who appears to have been a

primary promoter of aloe Hispano-Arabs kept fast fields of it in

Andalusia. Fernando the Catholic camped in aloe fields during the

campaign to conquer Granada from them and his physicians used aloe to

cure the wounds of his soldiers. In the end it is said that King Ferdi

burned the fields, don't ask me why, and the multi-uses for aloe

supposedly became ashes buried with so many facets of Hispano-Muslim

medical history.

 

   Yes, it seems that in the 1980's aloe started to come back in

marketing soaps, creams and lotions but former roommate swears it was

something her forefathers have always had on hand for internal and

external use. Here in Chile the plant is as common as a daisy in

nurserys where we can even buy a cut leaf which yields more than a quart

of aloe juice. Everyone here knows about its benefits.

 

     I have never heard of anyone allergic to aloe. For me offering aloe

syrup only has benefits for you and your guests and it can provide very

interesting conversation.

 

   Oh, English culinary historians - pls don't confuse this aloe with

your birdies!

 

Suey

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 02:40:33 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Using aloe in food

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> My first thought as aloe vera, which is used in food items, but I

> think that aloe vera is a New World plant. Wikipedia mentions its use

> in Pakistan and India "for centuries", but that doesn't necessarily

> mean it is period.

 

When people talk about Aloe, they usually mean Aloe Vera.  And it is  

definitely Old World.

 

Ranvaig

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_vera

Aloe vera (syn. A. barbadensis Mill., A. vulgaris Lam.) is a species  

of Aloe, native to northern Africa.

 

http://www.aloeria.co.uk/html/body_aloe_vera_history.html

Most botanists agree, and historical evidence suggests, that the Aloe  

Vera plant originated in the warm, dry climates of Africa. However,  

because the plant is readily adaptable, and because man has been so  

eager to carry it with him from place to place, it now can be found  

in many warm lands.

... The first detailed discussion of Aloe's medicinal value is  

probably that which is found in the Papyrus ebers, an Egyptian  

document written around B.C.E. 1550. This document gives twelve  

formulas for mixing Aloe with other agents to treat both internal and  

external human disorders.

 

http://faculty.ucc.edu/biology-ombrello/POW/Aloe_vera.htm

Aloe vera is one of about 250 species of Aloes.  The Aloes are  

members of the Lily family (Liliaceae) and, therefore, are relatives  

of such common plants as tulips, Easter lilies, and asparagus.  Aloe  

vera is believed to be native to the Mediterranean, but its exact  

native habitat is unknown.  In the Old World the aloes have had a  

long history of economic use, and this species in particular has been  

carried around by people for so long that its original habitat has  

been lost in history.  In fact, some taxonomists believe that Aloe  

vera is not even a naturally developed species, but instead some  

ancient hybrid.  This may, in part, account for the use of two  

scientific names for the species.

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:22:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Using aloe in food

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Aloe vera is the common aloe of the Mediterannean and is very likely  

what is being called for as aloe.

 

Genus Agave is the New World equivalent of genus Aloe, and the agaves  

are sometimes referred to as false aloe.

 

Bear

 

> My first thought as aloe vera, which is used in food items, but I

> think that aloe vera is a New World plant. Wikipedia mentions its use

> in Pakistan and India "for centuries", but that doesn't necessarily

> mean it is period.

> Stefan

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:34:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00)

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pellydore?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Pellitory is a pungent herb.  I have not tried it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacyclus_pyrethrum>;

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:46:23 -0500

From: Cindy Sorenson <wolfhawke81 at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pellydore

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Medieval Cookery - A Dictionary of Middle-English Cooking Te...

pellydore - Pellitory (Anacyclus

pyrethrum). An herb with a hot, spicy flavor. Also called Spanish

Chamomile and Mount Atlas daisy. Pellitory ...

www.medievalcookery.com/dictionary/dict_p.shtm

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:25:54 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pellydore?

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Pellitory is an herb.

 

There are descriptions at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellitory

 

Roman Pellitory. Pellitory of Spain. Spanish Chamomile. Pyrethrem

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/p/pellit19.html

 

I've never used it in food, but in the mid-70s we grew Pyrethrem at

our rented house in West LA that had a wonderful apricot tree in the

back yard under which one of my house mates planted real violets.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:45:05 -0700

From: "Laureen Hart" <lhart at graycomputer.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hyssop

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Snip

Capons Stewed

Has anyone played with this recipe? Has anyone spent a lot of time with

Hyssop?

************************************

 

I haven't spent a *lot* of time with hyssop, but I like it. There are a

bunch of varieties so your mileage may vary. If you use a lot it can be

bitter.

 

What I did the first time I bought it was boiled some up with water and

tasted it. It is good for colds and sniffles so I started adding it to herb

teas as well as cooking with it.

 

Randell Raye

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:31:30 -0400

From: "Sharon Gordon" <gordonse at one.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring

2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.

As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread

from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it.

 

Sharon

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:42:57 -0400

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

--On Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:31 PM -0400 Sharon Gordon

<gordonse at one.net> wrote:

<<< As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring

2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.

As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread

from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it. >>>

 

Neat! I cooked what is probably a descendant of it this weekend (not for a

feast). Yeast dough 2/3 bread flour, 1/3 corn meal, create disks, brush

with oil, put in a bayleaf, and fold over or seal. Let rise again and bake.

 

Yummy!

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:57:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I think a copy of the recipe should be out in the Florilegium as we went

over this early on in the history of the list.

 

Cato's recipe calls for 2 pounds of finely ground cheese to one pound of

fine flour.  Work the flour and cheese together add an egg as a binder then

shape it into a loaf.  place it on top of bay leaves and bake under a testo

(clay dome oven) on a hot hearth.

 

Bear

 

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net> wrote:

<<< As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring

2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.

As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread

from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it.

 

Sharon >>>

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:47:42 EDT

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ummm... weird question...

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:

<<< Anyway,  for future reference, from the herbal experts out there, what  

is a  good herb known for it's laxative properties? Period or  non. >>>

 

Buckthorn Bark, tempered with ginger PLEASE, otherwise you wouldn't  believe

the cramps.

_http://www.puristat.com/ingredients/buckthornbark.aspx?pid=1&;campaignno=Produ

cts_Ingredients&adgroup=Buckthorn&keywords=buckthorn+bark_E_

(http://www.puristat.com/ingredients/buckthornbark.aspx?pid=1&;campaignno=Products_Ingredients&adgroup=Buckthorn&keywords=buckthorn+bark_E)

 

Corwyn

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:12:01 -0800

From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ummm... weird question...

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:

<<< Anyway,  for future reference, from the herbal experts out there, what

is a  good herb known for it's laxative properties? Period or  non. >>>

 

Rhubarb. Not period for Western Europe, but works (says the owner of a 150

year old rhubarb plant).  I love the stuff in various forms to include just

cut up and dipped in sugar (substitute now), but there is a price to pay...

 

Regina

 

 

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:09:05 -0700

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Herbal laxatives

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Pat Griffin wrote:

Stephen asked for herbal laxatives.

 

The first one I thought of was Senna, but is Senna an herb?  

 

Lady Anne du Bosc, Called Mordonna

Thorngill, Meridies

 

I thought senna was bark, which would be more of a spice than an herb...

 

Many years ago, at summer camp, our counselor told us that one of the

cabins had done an overnighter in the woods, and when they gathered

firewood to cook their food, they happened to gather up some cascara

along with the alder and birch they found.

 

Let's just say it was a long night.

 

'Lainie

 

 

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:54:22 -0500

From: Cindy Sorenson <wolfhawke81 at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbal / natural laxatives

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Senna is a natural laxative; parts used - leaves and pods.  It has a strong laxative effect on the entire intestinal tract, especially the colon and large intestines.  It should always be taken with carminative herbs such as ginger or fennel to prevent bowel cramps.  It should not be used in cases of inflammation of the stomach. (Today's Herbal Health by Louise Tenney, M.H.)  Also listed are rhubarb and flaxseed.  In ancient days (as now) spices, roots, berries, leaves, etc were both food and healing herbs.  Equally, I'd had a friend ask me to bring her 'interesting weeds'. I'd moved, and there were 'weeds' I didn't recognize, so took them to her to use as dyes for wool.  She'd tell me the names, then I'd run home to learn their medicinal values.  Within 20' of the road, it's a dye... beyond 20', it's an herb.      

 

<<< Stephen asked for herbal laxatives.

 

The first one I thought of was Senna, but is Senna an herb??

 

Lady Anne du Bosc, Called Mordonna

Thorngill, Meridies >>>

 

 

Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 22:12:40 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sent Sovi and A&S- advice needed

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Parsley (Petroselinum crispum) is a single species with about 30 subspecies

which fall into two main divisions, flat-leafed and curly-leafed.  Prior to

300 BCE, Theophrastus describes both curley-leafed and flat-leafed parsley

varieties. Pliny provides the information that the Romans were

particularly fond of parsley as a seasoning.  The two pieces of information

suggest that both types of parsley would have been available and it would

have been the choice of the cook as to which was used.

 

If you need a more precise answer, I would suggest Charles de L'Ecluse

(Carolus Clusius), Rariorum aliquot stirpium per Hispanias observatarum

historia, 1576

 

http://www.knaw.nl/publicaties/pdf/20061066_Clusius_05.pdf

 

<<< I have entered several cooking projects from medieval India, but I

rarely break out of "home base". I fell in lust with The Book of Sent

Sovi (Vogelzang translation 2008) and have one I have been working on

and would love to enter into the next A&S faire.

 

It is expected in this kingdom that each ingredient in a dish be

separately documented. If the translation lists "parsley", what kind of

parsley was correct for that time/place, etc.

 

Madhavi of Jaisalmer

House Herava >>>

 

 

Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 22:20:17 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sent Sovi and A&S- advice needed

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Let's try this again.

 

<<< Parsley (Petroselinum crispum) is a single species with about 30

subspecies which fall into two main divisions, flat-leafed and

curly-leafed. Prior to 300 BCE, Theophrastus describes both curley-leafed

and flat-leafed parsley varieties.  Pliny provides the information that

the Roman's were particularly fond of parsley as a seasoning.  The two

pieces of information suggest that both types of parsley would have been

available and it would have been the choice of the cook as to which was

used.

 

If you need a more precise answer, I would suggest Charles de L'Ecluse

(Carolus Clusius), Rariorum aliquot stirpium per Hispanias observatarum

historia, 1576 >>>

 

Which can be found here,

http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ3RZA2npvIC&;pg=PR1&lpg=PR1&dq=Rariorum+aliquot+stirpium+per+Hispanias+observatarum+historia&source=bl&ots=Dv2JO98vWz&sig=iZNZiCow0prehdBgIYCWbkXyg5c&hl=en&ei=R14bSoGeK9OFmQeD65zpDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

 

If that doesn't work, just plug the title into Google.

 

For an account of Clusius's correspondence with Spanish botanists and a list

of some of the plants in the text including Petroselinum macedonicum, try

here:

 

> http://www.knaw.nl/publicaties/pdf/20061066_Clusius_05.pdf

 

I haven't checked, but according to some other sources, this work has the

first reference to capsicum peppers in Spain.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:46:49 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Asafoetida and Silphium

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The latest issue of Saudi Aramco World magazine for July/August 2009

arrived today.

 

It has an article in on "Devil's Dung" or Asafoetida.

Also the article contains an interesting sidebar on Silphium

It's online here:

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200904/devil.s.dung-the.world.s.smelliest.spice.htm

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:46:02 -0700

From: K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pellitory

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

It is also used in making gruits, an ale made with various bitter/flavorful herbs instead of hops.  Thanks for the source!

 

Katira al-Maghrebiyya

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:22:58 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apicius question(s)

 

Cailte wrote:

<<< Second, there is no indication of what to substitute for laser

(which appears to be in everything as well... no wonder it's

not around any more). >>>

 

Asafoetida (asafetida), called Hing in South Asian markets.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:29:53 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apicius question(s)

 

<<<    Laser, laserpitium, silphium- Flowers and Rosenbaum suggest

replacing this herb with asafoetida.

www.housedragonor.org/A&S/herbs-gwen.html oh! reading further on

that page, one finds Laser is still used today in India and can be

found in many of the larger import markets. It is commonly known as

heeng. I have no idea about the accuracy of that second statement.

See the Wiki articles about both Silphium and Asafoetida, very

interesting. Apparently cooked asafoetida is leek-like, and "giant

fennel" is part of the same Genus. >>>

 

Hing or Heeng is another word for Asafetida.  Silphium was similar to

asafotida, which was considered an inferior substitute.

 

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Feru_ass.html

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Silphion.html

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:56:43 -0800 (PST)

From: Cheri or Anne <celticcheri at yahoo.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] My "Roman Meal" display at A and S

 

Just an FYI..lovage tastes like very strong celery. I have two tall plants that I grow here and can tell you a little lovage goes a LONG way.

anne

 

*snip*

For a 26-dish Roman feast i made for 80 diners, i prepared peaches with ground roasted cumin, lovage (i substituted Chinese parsley because i couldn't find fresh lovage herb),

*snip*

-- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:50:10 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] My "Roman Meal" display at A and S

 

Cheri or Anne wrote:

<<< Just an FYI..lovage tastes like very strong celery. I have two tall

plants that I grow here and can tell you a little lovage goes a LONG

way. >>>

 

In my experience, fresh lovage leaves tasted like strong celery with

a hint of menthol. Couldn't match the menthol, but i substituted

Chinese parsley because it is composed only of thin leafy stalks, and

no thick crunchy parts, with a flavor closer to lovage than regular

celery.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:46:25 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for sea holly root

 

On May 17, 2010, at 10:29 PM, Jennifer Carlson wrote:

<<< Does anyone have a line on where to get sea holly root, also known  

as eringo or eryngo?

Talana >>>

 

Described here

http://floreznursery.blogspot.com/2009/08/eryngium-maritimum-sea-holly.html

 

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2343/

 

I have never found a source for the candied root. At one time I tried  

to grow it but didn't have any luck.

 

Johnnae

 

 

<the end>



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