fd-Germany-msg – 1/19/08
Medieval and Period German food. Cookbook sources. Recipes. References.
NOTE: See also the files: Germany-msg, pickled-foods-msg, turnips-msg, vinegar-msg, vegetables-msg, beer-msg, root-veg-msg.
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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 08:48:24 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Questions
>One reference he made in the first chapter caught my eye. He says that
>the first cookbook printed on a printing press was Kuchenmeisterey
>(Cooking Mastery) printed in Nuremberg in 1485 and that 56 editions of
>this book were printed. Has anyone heard of it? Is it available in
>English Translation?
Here's what I was able to find in the Library of Congress records:
Title: Kuchenmeysterey / in Abbildung herausgegeben von
Rolf Ehnert.
Published: G=E8oppingen : K=E8ummerle, 1981.
Description: 65, x p. ; 21 cm.
Series: Litterae ; Nr. 71
LC Call No.: TX721 .K934 1981
Dewey No.: 641.5943 19
ISBN: 3874524760
Notes: Photoreproduction of original published: Passau :
Printed by Johann Petri, 1486? Now owned by Bayerische
Staatsbibliothek M=E8unchen (4o Inc. s.a. 161a/3)
Bibliography: p. x.
Subjects: Cookery, German -- Early works to 1800.
Other authors: Ehnert, Rolf.
Petri, Johannes, 1441-1511.
Other titles: K=E8uchenmeisterei.
Series Entry: Litterae (K=E8ummerle Verlag) ; Nr. 71.
Control No.: 81188708=20
Nothing about a translation there, but that doesn't mean that one doesn't
exist.
Hope this helps a little,
Duncan
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady tabrady at mindspring.com SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:23:43 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Ein/Das Buoch Von Guter Spise
I've been advised by Mistress Caterina Sichlingen Von Nurnberg that her
translation of Ein Buoch Von Guter Spise is available on the Web at the
following URL:
http://cs-www.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/workroom.html
German 14th-century cookbooks, get 'em while they're 'ot, they're
lovely...fox nipple chips, otter's noses...
Seriously, though, there is also some additional stuff that will be of
interest, like various works in progress.
Have fun!
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:47:38 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - SC-German food in period
What constitutes Medieval German cooking is difficult to say. There
would be differences depending on what foodstuffs were generally
available in a region. The northern region would use more fish, while
the southern region would use more meat, etc. Were I really pushed, I
might also say: "Cherries, apples, hazelnuts, cinnamon, nutmeg, sweet
dishes, sour dishes."
Charlemange incorporated the German states into the Carolingian Empire
around 800 C.E. and they became part of the Holy Roman Empire when it
was officially recognized in 962. The HRE officially died in 1806, but
it was effectively dead by the mid-16th Century. So German cooking
would probably have been heavily influenced by early French cooking. I
posted a couple of translations here a short while back which would give
you an idea of the foods available around 800-900.
For later recipes, you might try Das Buch von Guter Speise, a
translation of which is available on the Web and in paper, This dates
from about 1354.
Other possible sources (which I do not have copies of dang it):
1400 Manuscript DII30 at the University of Basel (there is a
published thesis of about 40 copies)
1485 Kuchenmeisterei (The Mastery of the Kitchen)
1553 Das Kochbuch der Sabrina Welserin
1581 Das Neu Kockbuch (I think this is part of Cariadoc's translation
project) (Rumpolt)
1603 Speisebuchlein: Darrinnen Kurtzer Vnterricht von allerley
Speise vnd Trank so zur Menchlichen Nahrung dienlich... (Hubner)
1609 Ein Schon kunstlich Kochbuchlein von Vielen vnd manchen Richten
(original currently in the Passau Glasmuseum)
1719 Neues Saltzburgisches Koch-buch
It's not much help, but it's what I've got.
Bear
Subject: German cookbook
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:50:28 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
To: stefan at texas.net
>Is this just translations or redactions, too? How much for the book?
>How is it bound? How many pages? Is it the complete Das Kochbuch der
>Sabina Welserin? How can people reach you to order it? Just some of the
>questions that I imagine people are going to ask.
Translations only, no redactions, of 205 recipes in Das Kochbuch der Sabina
Welserin. It is the complete cookbook. It's forty pages spiral bound for
$16. I can be reached at:
Valoise Armstrong
P.O. Box 2492
Little Rock, Arkansas 72203
vjarmstrong at aristotle.net
I am on the sca-cooks list and sca-arts list, but I wasn't sure if it would
be polite to post there about commercial projects (even on a tiny scale
like this).
Valoise
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:41:17 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?
Here is another site you might find useful.
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm
Ras
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:53:26 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?
Bear wrote:
>>Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin is available in translation, but I don't
>>have the information.
The English translation is mine and I have a couple of copies left, e-mail
me if you're interested. I am planning on offering it to Cariadoc for his
published cookbook collection after that as the pace of my mundane life is
rapidly increasing. As far as I know, Sabina Welser and Ein Buch von Guter
Speise are the only two German texts that have been translated into
English.
If you have access to a university library for interlibrary loan you might
down Thomas Gloning's bibliography at
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm
This is the most comprehensive list of material that I've found on German
cooking and drink and although Gloning's rannge of dates extends outside
SCA time it's still useful. Unfortunately most of these sources are in
German and many are unavailable in the US or are pretty rare.
Several people have mentioned Gloning's home page:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm
This has the complete text of Ein alemannisches Buechlein vonn guter Spise
and a portion of a Rheinfrankisches Kochbuch (neither one in English) as
well as a few redactions that I think are in English (I think - it's been a
while since I looked).
Valoise
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:29:31 +0200 (CET)
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: Re: SC - German Anyone? "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (1445)"
I have just been editing the German cookery book from the Ms. germ. fol.
244 (now in Berlin) from about 1445, the "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch". It
has been published, together with
a facsimile, a transcription, translation (to new High German), notes,
glossary and an article by Trude Ehlert (from "Das Kochbuch des
Mittelalters"). It can be obtained by Ludwig Auer in Donauwoerth.
For further information see my homepage:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm
There is also a bibliography, which contains many studies and sources:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm (but it is long)
Thomas
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:41:46 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?
Armstrong, Valoise. Sabina Welser¹s Cookbook. Translated from Das
Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553). Privately published,
Little Rock, AR, 1998. English translations only, no originals,
no redactions. Frau Welserin¹s own collection of recipies.
Valoise should be on this list. Her book is available for sale. If she
doesn't post you, let me know and I'll find her address. She hasn't
redacted the recipies, and as I recently bought it, I haven't
either--yet!
Fahrenkamp, H. Jurgen. Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Krafften
halt. (in German). Prisma Verlag. Munchen or Gutersloh, 1986.
ISBN 3 570 09730 7 Sources and originals not given, occasionally
mentioned. Modern German redactions.
Eleonora Maria Rosalia. Freiwillig aufgesprungner Granat-Apffel.
Hausmettel and kochrezepte von 1709. (taken from a hand-written recipe
book of the 16th C.)
(in Gerrman). Working on translation.
I've got the above two books. Love to cook German food, glad to help if
I can. I also have some modern German cookbooks in English, and some in
German, to which we can refer if something absolutely stumps us.
Sometimes, 'reverse engineering' helps a little.
Allison
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:42:37 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut
Ras wrote:
>Cool! Could you write down and send the SPECIFIC reference (pub., pg. etc.).
>I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of course, but
>it WILL be there.
Roeck, Bernd. Baecker, Brot und Getreide in Augsburg. Sigmaringen: Jan
Thorbecke Verlag, 1987.
It's probably out of print, but I got it fairly easily through interlibrary
loan. I didn't save the ISBN, just photocopied what I needed. It's not as
interesting as it sounds at first - the subtitle translates to something
like - The history of the baking trade and the politics of supply in the
Imperial city at the time of the Thirty Year's War_. But mixed in with the
out of period and political stuff are some nice tidbits, like the food
budget for an orphange in 1572 and speculation from period sources on what
the working class ate and spent on food. There's also an appendix that
giving the Augsburg municipal baking laws from 1606.
It's cultural history, academic and in German, but there are some SCA
applicable parts.
Valoise
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:46:39 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - carp and lebkuchen
I was looking up some info on the lebkuchen in some of my German
referances, and noticed the statement that carp is traditionally cooked
in Germany on Christmas Eve, as it goes back to the monks' ponds.
Evidently, they kept carp as a staple. The fattening of the Christmas
carp might begin as early as August. So, as soon as we're home from
Pennsic, we rush out and feed the fish!!! They didn't say what was used
to fatten the carp, or what monks used in place of cardboard boxes of
fish flakes.
My German family has a herring salad, with beets, for Christmas eve and
other special family events, but I think that comes from the
great-grandfather who was a trader based in Riga, Russia. Which brings
us back to lebkuchen.
These spice cakes/cookies were developed from a happy mixture of the
Franconian honey trade and the Pfeffersa"cke, the 'peppersacks' as
Nure"mberg's prosperous medieval merchant adventurers were called.
"Commercial gingerbread was baked by the members of an exclusive guild,
known as Lebku"chler." Scharfenberg, Horst. _The Cuisines of Germany_,
Simon & Schuster, Inc., 1989. Definately prepared for the modern USA
market, but good food and sometimes interesting info. (The quotation
marks in German words are attempting to be umlauts)
Allison, who is not a spoon tease, I don't have the herring salad recipe.
It's SECRET and I don't remember because I only helped with it once, 13
years ago. There's green stuff, and chopped pickled beets, and chopped,
cooked herring, and chopped, pickled gherkins and more stuff.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:29:02 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Sabina Welser's Cookbook
>At Pennsic, I picked up a cookbook titled Sabina Welser's Cookbook
>translated from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553) by Valoise
>Armstrong. Does anyone know anything about the german source for this
>cookbook? Are the recipes truly all from the mid-1500s?
>Unfortunately, this is only the English translation and does not include
>the original german.
According to Hugo Stopp who edited the hand-written manuscript for
publication the majority of the book appears to be written in one
handwriting style, that of Sabina Welserin. Unfortunately there were
several women in the Welser family with that name in the 16th C. but the
likeliest suspects died in either 1576 or 1599. Stopp also says that
additions were made by a second person, but he describes the second
handwriting as being a distinctly 16th C. style. So, yes, the recipes date
from the 16th C.
>The reason I ask is this cookbook is unsual in several regards. A number
>of the recipes give amounts. There are several pastry recipes (standing
>pies, dumplings and tarts). Since these are unusual offerings in the
>English, French and Italian books I have studied I wondered if this
>cookbook was entirely from the mid-1500's or maybe contained later
>recipes as well.
The recipes are sometimes more detailed than earlier cookbooks, but this
might have more to do with the time period than the location. Most of the
English and Frennch medieval cookbooks that are readily available are
definitely earlier than this. But look at Knelme Digby and Hugh Plat's
Delightes for Ladies - their instructions are much more detailed than
earlier English recipes.
If anyone's interested Hugo Stopp's transcription along with a translation
into modern German shouldn't be too hard to get through interlibrary loan.
Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Heidelberg: Carl Winter
Univeritaetsverlag, 1980.
ISBN 3-533-02905-0
Valoise
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:19:50 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Sabrina Welserin Webbed
I have just added Valoise Armstrong's translation of Sabrina Welserin to my
web page; you can find it at:
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html
David Friedman
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:12:58 +0100 (CET)
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - bibliographies
I have put a _slightly_ enlarged version of cookbib.htm on my website.
In addition, I extracted from this file all the German sources and put
them in a chronological order, beginning with the many editions and
facsimiles of the "Buoch von guoter spise".
You can find these lists at:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm
and
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/germcook.htm
As always: additions and suggestions are extremely wellcome.
Thomas
***
Dr. Thomas Gloning
Germanistik, Universitaet Giessen
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
New edition of 15th century cookery book:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm
Subject: Re: ANST - Medieval Food, clothing, tents and German armor
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 98 06:52:59 MST
From: RAISYA at aol.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Two of the lists are 14th century.
None of the lists are specifically 12th century, but the 9th century
Charlemagne list would almost certainly have been available to a 12th century
German, and certainly had a major influence on what was grown. I'd also
recommend this site, with the earliest known German language cookbook:
Ein Buch von guter spise (c. 1345 to 1354)
http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/Buch/buch.html
The earliest German garden book (or health manual, unclear which) I have
tracked down is HORTUS SANITATIS (or possibly called GART DER GESUNDHEIT),
Peter Schoeffer, Mainz, 1485. However, the title and a few of the woodcuts
are all I've found so far.
Raisya
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:33:48 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Altbayrische Kochrezepte ( XV./XVI. cent.)
For those interested in German cookery recipes: you can find the
text of "Alte Kochrezepte aus dem bayrischen Inntal" (15th/16th century;
ed. Danner) on my website:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kb-dann.htm
or via:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
then chose ETEXTE or ALTE KOCHBUECHER in the left frame, then search for
the DANNER-entry in the right frame.
Remember that around 1500 most German texts are written in some sort of
dialect...
Thomas
************
Dr. Thomas Gloning, JLU Giessen
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (15. Jh.):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm