root-veg-msg – 4/6/08
Medieval root vegetables. carrots. potatoes. onions, parsnips, sweet potatoes, Radishes.
NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, potatoes-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, fennel-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:31:21 -0700
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Turnips
Rutabegas are not period, they are a turnip cabbage hybrid, created
for some reason that escapes me at the moment
Susan
>eaten raw. Also do not confuse turnips with rutabagas which are decidedly
>stronger in flavor. As a rule of thumb, turnips are small white at the
>bottom, with a light purple blush on top.
>
>Rutabagas are VERY large, usually coated with wax, yellowish flesh,
>dirty white bottom and a deep purple top.
>
>Lord Ras
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:54:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Carrots
<< I was taught that Queen Anne's Lace was poisonous. Of course, I never
checked it out -- not being a cat ;-> >>
The one you want is> Daucus carota (The cultivated carrot is D. carota var.
sativa). The Field Book of Natural History, pg. 268 says: Native of Asia, but
naturalized from Europe. Now commonly established as a weed in fields,
pastures, and waste places. Found from coast to coast in N. America but may
be commoner in the East. 25 species in genus. FROM THIS SPECIES HAS BEEN
DEVELOPED THE VALUABLE CULTIVATED CARROT.
There is reference to the remote possibility that handling the leaves MAY
cause dermititis in some people. This warning is also included in the
reference to cultivated carrots. No mention is made of it being poisonous but
like any other wild plant you should be familiar with it before you eat it.
:-) After all there is an extremely remote possibility that you may confuse
it with Poison Hemlock. However, since the growing environment are very
dissimilar the odds are you would not mistake it. Also they are very
different in appearance so far as root structure, flowers, and leaves are
concerned.
Lord Ras
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:12 -0600
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots
Concerning wild carrots: I think caution is somewhat advised. Many of the
the wild relatives of the carrot are edible, but bear a very close look to
the more poisonous kin. Lord Ras is correct in that be sure before you
eat. Most of the poisonous relatives of the wild carrot are nasty
smelling, and usually have purplish blotches on the stalks. Here in
Ansteorra, wild carrot, wild parsley and hemlock can grow near enough to
each other to be confusing. Also here are vast quantities of wild onion,
which have a companion plant called crow bane that looks very similar. The
key is the smell. I was fortunate enough to mundanely worked with a man
who wild plant foraged and learned a great deal about them.(He used to be
Society Master of Sciences early one) He often ate things that I
personally wouldn't but were edible. We rapidly had three lists of
plants... inedible, edible and gwilym edible. His name in the SCA was
Master Gwilym the Smith.
Clare RSJ
From: Michael Newton <Michael Newton at postoffice at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Parsnip reciepe
Date: 15 Jun 1997 20:11:15 GMT
What kind of Stout {brand names would be helpful} would one use in this
reciepe:
Parsnips Stewed in Dark Beer or Stout
1 lbs. parsnips peeled and cut in 2 in. chunks
1 cup dark beer or stout
A 1 in piece of stick cinnamon
2 large blades of mace
3 whole cloves
pinch of salt
pinch of pepper
place all ingredients in a heavy, medium size saucepan and simmer,
covered, 30 to 35 minutes until you can pierce patsnips easily with a
fork. Turn heat to low and simmer, uncovered, 10 to 15 min. longer until
the beer or stout has thickened into a glaze. Remove spices and serve
parsnips hot as an accompaniment to roast fowl, ham, or pork.
From Recipes from America's Restored Villages
Chapter on Plimoth Plantation, Plymouth, Mass.
by Jean Anderson
I was thinking about making this receipe for a period potluck our shire
is having next month.
Lady Beatrix of Thanet
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips
On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
> Kohlrabi. Yummm. I would think it a bit too zesty... but worth
> considering. (My mother used to be *astonished* at the quantity of raw
> kohlrabi I would consume at one sitting. And not a tiny bit upset: that
> stuff cost money.)
>
> For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable, rather
> ball shaped, and with several stalks arising from various places on the top
> hemisphere of the root. It is a vaguely "institutional green", and we used
> to peel and slice it into salads. Taste and texture similar to radishes
> that are slightly sharp.
>
> I have no idea if it is period. I do know it is delicious.
>
> Tibor
I think it is.
From what I can find in Gerard's Herbal, there is a "round Rape Cole" listed
and pictured, that looks exactly like a kohlrabi. He says that they grow in
Italy, Spain and Germany, from where he recieved his seeds. They are
accounted as daintie meats, contending with the Cabbage in taste.
Ceridwen
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips
<< For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable >>
Order Papaverales
Family Cruciferae
Brassica caulorapa
Native of Europe. Some people consider it variety (var. gongylodes) of
Broccoli (B. oleracea).
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Kohlrabi
<< I can see how you might describe it as radish-like. I wonder if that is
caused by different growing conditions? >>
This is ideed the case. Kohlrabi must be grown with plenty of moisture and
cool temperatures rather quickly and eaten when fairly young. If not, the
tuber becomes woody and strong tasting.
Lord Ras
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:30:01 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
Subject: SC - SKIRRETS
Hello, well, finally made it to the library after the skirret info. and
here it is:
"The World Encyclopedia of Food"
copyright 1982 L. Patrick Coyle
ISBN 0-87196-417-1
(BTW really yummy book.. :-) ...once a herald, always a herald... :-)
Page 612
I didn't copy word for word, this is the gist of the entry...
Skirret, also Chervin, the roots of Sium sisarum; originated in Eastern
Asai, but cultivated in Europe since Roman times. Supposed to have a
sweet taste, with a woody core which is removed before cooking [rather
like parsnips, I think] The taste is compared to sweet potates. Also
dried and ground for a coffee substitute.
This is a huge book that has probably *almost* everything ever known to
have been eaten for food in the world. If anyone spots a source for
it, I would love to get a copy! to keep at home and read.
Well, good cooking and happy feasting everyone.
Mairi
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:03:03 -0700
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - parsnips!
Juana Teresa entertained us with:
> Lady Katerine is SO right about the "underratedness" of parsnips.
> yea, parsnips....yea, parsnips...gimme a "P", gimme an "A"....
> sorry; I'll go quietly now.
> Juana Teresa
Go not, milady; I agree with you entirely!
I am always amazed and confuzzled by people who consider parsnips =
"yucky" or "bitter." My father taught me his method of making parsnips; =
which are soooo lovely I've even served them at feasts (and cursed =
myself for not saving any for ME; they were vacuumed instantly...)
Would this be considered a "period" method of serving this very period =
veggie? (..she asks, over a year since she already did it <blush>)
Glenn's Minnesota Parsnips
2-3 peeled parsnips, cut into sticks
Butter
White pepper
Cut parsnips to size of veggie-tray carrot sticks (about 2-3" long; =
about 1/2 to 3/4" thick. Parboil them till tender but NOT mushy (about =
10-20 minutes). Throw them in a saucepan and fry them in butter, =
seasoned to taste with white pepper, till edges are golden-brown. =20
The end result is sweet as candy (just as sweet, in my opinion, as the =
brown-sugar-glazed carrots I serve them with every Thanksgiving) and =
absolutely delightful. Please, let's not talk about cholesterol, =
though.... <grin>
What other parsnip recipes are out there? Can someone give me a more =
period recipe?
Always curious,
- kat
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:20:29 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - parsnips! (was re: chicken on string)
Hi, Katerine here. kat asks whether parboiled parsnips fried lightly
in butter are period. I haven't seen a recipe for that, but vegetables
are relatively lightly represented in the corpus, at least partly
because they were simply prepared (Taillevent even says so).
The recipes I know of call for boiling (there's a lovely soup of boiled
parsnips or turnips or skirrets in beef broth with sweet spices, for
instance).
- -- Katerine/Terry
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 19:00:45 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string
Melissa Hicks wrote:
[snipped a good bit]
> In all my modern herb books I cannot find 'skirrets' except one...which
> describes a herb with an edible root which was highly prized by the
> Romans and which has the botanical name:
> Sium Sisarum. Any ideas anyone?
>
> Drake Morgan,
> Politarchopolis.
Aha!!Gardening--something I know lots about! I have a reference to
skirrets, just a minute.....Sorry that took so long <cough cough, the
dust on that bookcase is choking me...>
Here it is:
"Gardening for Good Eating"
Helen Morgenthau Fox
Collier Books, New York
Copyright 1943 by The Macmillan Company, renewed 1971 by the author
!st edition Collier Books, 1973
2nd printing 1974
these two are the paperback editions.
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-12964
And I quote the entire passage, pages54 &55:
=================================================================
In the sixteenth century, skirrets, Sium sisarum, were brought to Europe
from Siberia and Persia, where they grew wild. The plant is a hard
perennial and has fleshy twisted roots, clustered like dahlia tubers.
Formerly these roots were a highly esteemed vegetable. Skirrets were
grown in Mobile, Alabama, in 1775 and are now obtinable from several
nurseries in the United States. The plants make thick lush growth about
2 feet high. The stems and divided leaves are a fresh yellow-green, and
the white flowers, in umbels, are somewhat weedy. The shoots and stems
have been blanched and eaten as a spring salad. They have a pleasant,
slightly camphoracieous taste, and the roots, too, have a pleasant
flavor.
To increase the supply of plants, they can readily be grown from
see, or the roots can be divided in autumn, wintered over in a sandy bed
and set out again in the garden in spring. They are hardy enough to
endure the winter outdoors, but this method of wintering over perennials
in the North has been found highly satisfactory. It does away with the
danger of plants being heaved out of the earth through thawing and
freezing.
The roots can be washed, scraped, and then steamed or boiled and
served like any root vegetables. To keep them from darkening after
peeling, they are dropped in water with lemon in it. This is Mrs.
Glasse's recipe to fricassee skirrets:
Wash the roots very well, boil them till they are tender; the thin
skin of the roots must be removed and the roots are cut in slices--have
ready a little cream, a piece of butter rolled in flour, the yolk of an
egg beaten, a little nutmeg, 2 to 3 spoonfuls of white wine, a little
salt and stir all together. Your roots being in a dish pour the sauce
over them.
to this might be added, put the whole dish in the oven to brown.
Rosemary can be substituted for nutmeg.
===========================
Hope this helps you out, tho I don't know who might have seeds or
plants,you could check sead saver exchanges or rare seed companies.
Mairi
- --
Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi Broder, Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe> and Curtis
Edenfield <The C-Man>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:57:16 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - skirret, succession-houses and nettles
Dear all and sundry,
This is my first message to the list. I am another Adamastorian
(Cape Town, South Africa), formerly of Lochac (Hi to any Stormholders
out there.
First, that skirret
is alive and well and can be got via some seed merchants. Mine in
Australia was Phoenix Seeds in Tasmania, who also give
historical provenance, level of organic production of seed, and
culinary/medicinal uses. Incidentally, I found a period poem -oh,
years ago - from Scotland about the glories of wild carrot.
Something about honey underground between St. Andrew's Day and
Christmas.
<snip>
Cairistiona nic Bhraonnaguinn
Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town
Rondebosch 7701 RSA
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:24:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - help-Queen Ann's Lace
Brid wrote:
> > << I thought Queen Ann's Lace was poisonous?
Ras replied:
> > Say what? Queen's Anne Lace is the wild carrot. If you take the seed palnt
> > it, grow it, dig it up and pick put the biggest roots, replant it, plant the
> > next years seed and repeat the process for at least 3-5 years you will have
> > in your garden a 'period' white or red carrot. :-)
Ciorstan continued:
> This, Lord Ras, is true-- however it is very easy for the new scavenger
> to mistake hemlock for Queen Anne's Lace out in the wild, with very
> unhappy results.
>
> If memory serves, there's also a water parsnip variety (remember the
> thread on skirrets a while back?) that is highly toxic as well.
From my old, scorched, stained copy of _Peterson's Field Guide
to Edible Wild Plants_:
Wild carrot, Queen Anne's Lace (Daucus carota)
A widespread _hairy-stemmed_ biennial. Flower clusters flat-topped,
lacy; often with a singule _purple_ flower in center. Old clusters
resemble _birds' nests_. Bracts _stiff, 3-forked_. Root white, smells
of carrot. 2-3 ft.... Prepare the first-year roots like garden
carrots. CAUTION: Early leaves resemble Poison Hemlock (below) but
stalks _hairy_.
Poison hemlock (Conium maculatum)
A tall, much-branched biennial. Stems stout, hollow, grooved, _spotted
with purple_. Ill-scented when bruised, unpleasant to taste. Root
white, carrotlike. 2-6 ft.... WARNING: small amounts may cause
paralysis and death. Similar to Wild Carrot (above) but leafstalks
_hairless_.
Water-hemlock, Spotted Cowbane (Cicuta maculata)
Tall, branching, with numerous flower clusters. Stem smooth, _streaked
with purple_, chambered. Leaves twice- or thrice-compound, often
reddish-tinged. Root with fat tuberlike branches, white. 3-6 ft....
WARNING: Our deadliest species. A single mouthful can kill.
Water parsnip (Sium sauve)
Similar to Water-hemlock (above), but stems _strongly ridged_ and leaves
_once-compound_ with 3-7 pairs of lance-shaped leaflets. Basal leaves
very finely cut, often submerged. Roots slender. 2-6 ft.... USE: roots
as cooked vegetable. Boil until tender. CAUTION: Because of its close
similarity to Water-hemlock (above), Water-parsnip is best ignored as a
possible food plant.
Does that make everything crystal clear?
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:54:32 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other
Mark Harris wrote:
> Not for the swans, but wouldn't a turnip dish fit the idea of a "white" dish?
> Was there a mashed turnip dish similar to our mashed potatos?
I believe Digby has a recipe for mashed, buttered parsnips. They'd be
pretty white. Is there a specific chronological theme for this feast?
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:57:39 -0500
From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie)
Subject: Re: SC - Period veges
Re: Re: Period veggies
Elizabeth wrote: " But Menagier de Paris (late 14th c.) describes
carrots as "red roots that you buy in the market".
When I travelled in India a year ago, the carrots in the market were almost
a true red color, or at least a rather dark very reddish orangey color.
Perhaps Europe in our period might have had a similarly colored variety.
<snip of comments and recipe on eggplant>
Take care,
Antoine de Bayonne
Dan Gillespie
dangilsp at intrepid.net
Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:55:54 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: SC - Potatoes
This is a repost of this message. I received a message from the system
that it did not get properly sent and am reposting. My apologies if you
have previosly received this message.
>>- 1586: Sir Thomas Herriot introduced potatoes to England from
>> Colombia.
>
>Confirmation, anyone?
>
>Alasdair mac Iain
I don't have any direct reference, but this is possible if Herriot is
connected to Sir Francis Drake. In February 1586, Drake tried to take
the Spanish treasure fleet at Cartagena, Colombia. He missed the fleet,
but took the city and reprovisioned his ships. It is believed by some
scholars that potatoes were among the supplies he seized.
Drake returned to England via Virginia (which may be when the potato was
introduced to North America). There appears to be a scholarly dispute
whether potatoes were tasted in the English court following this voyage.
There is an English mathematician, Thomas Hariot, who in 1588 wrote A
Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land in Virginia describing
agriculture on Roanoke Island. To my knowledge, there is no mention of
potatoes in Hariot's account.
Bear
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jennifer L Rushman" <rushmanj at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Potato Notes.
There are many and varied kinds of Potatoes found in S. America. They
come in a variety of colors (purple, golden yellow, red) on both the skin and
flesh! I believe their botanical origin is there. These colored varieties
can be found in a few markets in the US, although they are not very common. I
have seen purple in Detroit, MI at their Dealer's Market. This origin may
shed more light as to who brought them to Europe (and when) In addition the
sweet potato is not in the same family as the common white potato (Irish
potato) we all know. The Irish potato is in the Solonaceae where the sweet
potato is in the Convolvulaceae (Morningglory) family. The flowers of each are
quite different. Here's an expert from a Web page I found discussing
sweet/Irish Potatoes:
"Nature Bulletin No. 169-A
Forest Preserve District of Cook County, Ill.
Seymour Simon, President
Roberts Mann, Conservation Editor
****:THE SWEET POTATO
When the Spanish explorers first came to the New World they wereDate: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:36:29 EST
From: DianaFiona <DianaFiona at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - pasternakes
<<
You mean Dr Zhivago was written by somebody who wasn't sure if he was a
white or a red?
> In a message dated 97-12-16 20:46:13 EST, you (Cariadoc I think) write:
>
> << pasternakes being a general term for carrots or parsnips, >>
>>
(Grin) This reminds me of something I was meaning to mention. While
prowling in one of our bookstores the other day, I ran across a book whose
title was something like "The Kitchen Garden". It was a fairly small and
slender book--the type with a few recipes and some nice artwork. In this case
most of the art was 1700-1800 c., but there were two paintings that were late
1500s. Both of them were by painter's with Dutch sounding names. Anyway, there
were carrots in with the many other foodstuffs in both paintings. *Orange*
carrots! And, no, it wasn't just the reproduction, since in one of the
paintings there were other carrots that were very definitely red. So evidently
orange carrots *were* around, at least in the late 1500's. The info on the
artwork was unfortunately confined to the name of the paintings, and the
artist's name and born/died dates, so where the paintings were done isn't
available. :-(
I may have to go back and get that book later, after the Christmas
buying is over, just for those paintings!
Ldy Diana
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:06:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: SC - nightshades
Bogdan wrote:
> While I am not sure who brought them, I do know that they were not eaten
> for a while due to the pretty flowers. Why, being in the nightshade
> family gave the tomato a late start too. Nightshade was known, and the
> whole family was shunned. Your random botanical fact for the day
Yes, tomatoes and potatoes are both Solanaceae, but so are eggplants,
which were widely used at least in Iberian cooking in the Middle Ages.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:13:21 -0600
From: mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com (Michael F. Gunter)
Subject: SC - Parsnip/Carrot tart
> Gunthar, I really enjoyed the tart of Carrot & Parsnip. My toddler
> daughter who doesn't eat vegetables (can spot one BEFORE tasting it
> usually) even ate some. Would you mind sending me the recipe?
>
> Thanks, Clarissa
Okay, here's what I have.
It's the recipe that was posted by Aiofe from Martha Washington's Boke of Cookery. Although the book is dated 1749 the supposed cookbook she used to copy this is estimated to date from the mid-1500's.
To Make a Tart of Parsnips and Scyrrets:
Seeth yr roots in water & wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with
raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne
them & put suger to them, some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up and butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven, & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure.
Redaction by Ld Ragnar Keitelsson
3/4 lb carrots
3/4 lb parsnips
2 c. wine
2 T. butter
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup wine and/or rosewater
2 eggs
Juice of 1 lemon (optional)
1 cup breadcrumbs
1 deepdish pie crust
egg for glaze
Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt water and the 2 cups wine until soft. Mash
roughly with 1 cup breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter (melted), sugar, lemon juice, and the rest of the wine/rosewater. A rough texture is fine. Put into a pre-glazed pie shell and glaze the top with the remaining egg, put into a pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 minutes.
We tested this recipe and found it a little too sweet and too "rosey" so we cut
down on the parsnips (this was also for economic reasons) to a 3/1 carrot/parsnip ratio, used half the rosewater, and cut down on the sugar. Also we found a good dry white wine worked better than the sweet dessert wine we first tried. We added a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg to the mix. Also we pureed the parsnip/carrot mixture instead of the rough texture. These came out more like a rough pumpkin pie texture than the original.
They were served cold at the feast and I actually got far more compliments
on them than I expected.
Gunthar
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:20:17 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Garden time
melc2newton at juno.com writes:
<< Is rhubarb medieval? If so, how about some recipes? I'm planning on
planting one of these things in my yard (mainly for wine, mmmmmmm...).
And would love to have proof of it's being "period."
Beatrix >>
According to Waverly Root in "Food," rhubarb was reached the Western world
from China in the Roman era. Pliny mentions it in passing, as does
Dioscorides. Ibn-el-Beithar wrote in the 13th century C.E. that rhubarb was
common in Syria and had "like chard, it has fairly thick stalks." This
suggests that he may have realized it as good to eat and which part was eaten.
However, Europeans imported the root only as a medicinal, having in true
barbaric European fashion eaten the leaves early on with disastrous results.
Leonhard Ruuwolf saw it growing in Lebanon circa 1573-1575 C.E. It was growing
in certain abbeys as a medicinal and planted by a certain Adolf Occo in 1570
bringing it into the lay garden. Lyte mentions it as growing in English
herborist's gardens as a curiosity in 1578 C.E. Prosper Albinus grew it in the
botanical gardens in Padua at the same time, describing and illustrating it in
his herbal.
It is not until the 18th century that we see reference to it's use as food.
And even into the 19th century, it was grown not so much for the edible stalks
but rather, in the case of Rheum rhaponticum, for it's edible unopened flower
heads. R. rhaponticum curiously is the plant grown by Occo, Albinus Gerard
and Parkinson.
So apparently rhubarb was NOT grown as food during the Middle Ages although
it's roots were imported, or rarely grown, as medicine or botanical
curiosities with the exception of the more civilized Persian world where it's
culinary delights most probably were known.
That being the case, IMO, it deserves a place in the garden for it's medicinal
uses along side the many other herbs grown for this purpose.
Ras
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:03:25 -0400
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - Celtic Feast Repost--Long
> Perhaps you could have included a turnip recipe of some sort.
>
>Mordonna
Actually, we recently had the "Great Turnip Debate" on Tavern
Yard, and concluded that turnips weren't common that early in Britain.
They were brought over from the continent, Waverly Root says "However,
it is on record that turnips were one of the principal foods of the
Flemish in the fifteenth century, and the first turnips to be sent to
England, in the first half of the fifteenth, came from Holland, with no
applause from such Britons as the one who wrote that 'the poor Dutch men,
like swine, digge up the rootes!'"
Christianna
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:05:53 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - gingered butternut squash soup (Was: Italian Ren Feast)
> Seannach asked...
> >I just found a modern recipe for gingered butternut squash soup that has
> sweet potatoes in it, and am making it tonight to test out.....is there
> any way this could be period?<
The references I have available suggest that the sweet potato (Ipomoea
batatas) entered Italy about 1528 with haricot beans as part of a
presentation to Pope Clement VII from Cortez's expedition into Mexico.
Bear
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:58:12 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Fw: carrot pie
And it came to pass on 6 Feb 99,, that Tim & Dee wrote:
> My name is lachlan and I am from Sunderoak in Aethelmarc
> I was wounderin if some good and wise gentle could tell me if carrot pie
> would be period or not? It is prepared similar to pumpkin pie any info or
> leads where to look or document would be greatly appreciated.
M'lord Lachlan,
The only carrot pie recipe that I know is late period Spanish.
However, it does not greatly resemble a modern pumpkin pie. Here
is a translation of the recipe; perhaps it will be useful to you.
Torta of Carrot
From: "Libro del Arte de Cozina", 1599
Wash and scrape the carrots, and remove them from the water and
cook them in good meat broth, and being cooked remove them and
chop them small with the knife, adding to them mint and marjoram,
and for each two pounds of chopped carrots [use] a pound of
Trochon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese,
and six ounces of fresh cheese, and one ounce of ground pepper,
one ounce of cinnamon, two ounces of candied orange peel cut
small, one pound of sugar, eight eggs, three ounces of cow's
butter, and from this composition make a torta with puff pastry*
above and below, and the tortillon [pie pan?] with puff pastry all
around, and make it cook in the oven, making the crust of sugar,
cinnamon, and rosewater. In this manner you can make tortas of
all sorts of roots, such as that of parsley, having taken the core out
of them.
*The word used here for pastry, "ojaldre" ("hojaladre" in the modern
spelling) means puff pastry according to my modern Spanish
dictionary, and the etymology of the word (from hoja, "leaf") would
seem to indicate that it is the period meaning as well. There is a
recipe for a veal torta in the same cookbook which calls for the
same kind of pastry, and gives instructions for making it:
To Make Puff Pastry Pies of Veal Neck
Take wheat flour and knead it with egg yolks, tepid water, salt, and
a little bit of pork lard, and make it in such a manner that the dough
is more soft than hard, and pummel it very well on a table, and
make a thin torta, but swiftly, longer than wide and anoint all of it
with melted lard which is not very hot and begin to roll up the
narrow part, and make a roll the thickness of an arm which will
come to be solid, in such a manner that it can be cut, then cut a
round slice two fingers in thickness, and have separately another
firm dough well kneaded, made from wheat flour, egg yolks, water,
and salt without lard, and make of it a pie bottom which is of the
bigness of the pastry, and put in it a mixture made as in the
preceeding chapter [ie., the veal filling from the previous recipe],
keeping the same order to make the mixture high and pyramid-
shaped, because the cover that you make is of the same paste, in
cooking it can better become puffed [literally, "leafed"], and before
you put it in the oven anoint the pie with melted lard, which is cold
and not hot, because it clings better to the paste, and then put it in
the oven, which must be well swept, and clean, and level, and
moderately hot, and especially the upper part, so that the said puff
pastry can better puff, and as it begins to puff, anoint it with lard
with a feather fastened to a small cane without removing it from the
oven, which you will do two or three times, and being cooked you
must serve it hot dusted on top with sugar, and if you wish you can
put the broth which we have said in the previous chapter. And be
aware that if the ceiling of the oven is low, that will be better,
because all the puff pastries want the fire hotter above than below.
Which you must beware of in the other pies with puff pastry.
The recipe then goes on to discuss an alternate (and inferior)
dough which is used in Rome, and other fillings that can be used
with this pastry.
Note that while the veal pie has puff pastry only on the top crust,
the carrot torta calls for puff pastry in the top *and* bottom crusts.
The "crust" of sugar, cinnamon, and rosewater I would interpret as
a sweet topping for the upper crust. I haven't tried this myself, but
it sounds tasty, and with the quantities given, it shouldn't be too
hard to redact. Remember that medieval eggs would be smaller. If
you're not a pastry-baker, ready-made puff pastry can be found in
the frozen foods section of your local grocer.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:00 EST
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - my medieval dinner party - long
Last night I had some mundane friends over and served them a medieval feast.
They really enjoyed it and were interested in the background of the recipes.
The evening went off well so I thought I'd post the recipes I used.
Phillipa
<snip of ***Winter Squash or Pumpkin Soup*** recipe>
<snip of ***Chicken Ambrogino With Dried Fruit*** recipe>
<snip of ***Green Poree for Days of Abstainence*** recipe>
***Mashed turnips and parsnips***
I didn't have a recipe, but I've eaten this at several feasts.
4 medium turnips
2 medium parsnips
grains of paradise
cubeds
margarine
peel the veggies and boil until soft, about 20 minutes
Drain
Put the veggies back in the pot, throw in the margarine and a pinch of ground
cubeds and grains of paradise.
mash well and be sure to blend everything
<snip of gingerbread recipe>
Anyway, this was my menu...oh yes, I also made fried potatoes, no recipe.
Everyone liked everything, includeing my picky son!
IS,
Phillipa
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:28:56 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - My first time..
"Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote:
> I am
> looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently preparing
> an art/sci entry and need to document the things I am using for my
> soltetie. I have thus far been able to find turnips, and apples, and
> parsley, etc. But radishes seem to elude me at every turn. Could someone
> suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that
> mentions radishes?
They appear in 14th-century English recipes as rafens (from the Latin
raphanus), and as radich (es) . Check out Constance Hieatt's and Sharon
Butler's "Curye On Inglysch", published by the Oxford University Press
for the Early English Text Society in 1985; it contains an excellent
glossary of Middle English culinary terms, with an entry on rafens.
There may or may not be similar information somewhere in "Pleyn Delit"
by the same authors. (Not that Hieatt and Butler wrote the manuscripts
transcribed in either of the books, but they wrote more of "Pleyn Delit".)
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:58:41 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - My first time..
And it came to pass on 21 Apr 99,, that Amanda B. Humphrey wrote:
> You are all so helpful and always seem to know where to find things . I
> am looking for a reference to radishes being period.
The _Arte Cisoria_ a 15th century Spanish carving manual, mentions
radishes in the chapter on carving vegetables. It suggests that they be
sprinkled with salt to make the water come out of them, in order to
temper their sharpness and frigidity.
> Lady Bebhinn O'Siodhachain
> Shire of Starhaven
> Kingdom of Trimaris
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:52:24 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: SC - Period potato recipe
I was browsing through one of my Spanish cookbooks, looking for
something else entirely, when I came across a recipe for a citron-potato
conserve. In view of past discussions, I thought it might interest some
of the gentles here.
Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine
CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato
The citron must be mature, make it into four quarters, and remove the
sourness, and peel it, and then grate it, and cast it in to cook, and
having brought it to boil two or three times, set it aside, and let it cool,
and then wash it in tepid water, and cast it in a hair sieve, and wash it in
cold waters, until it is not bitter, and leave it until it drains very well. The potatoes must be large, and washed, and cast them in to cook, and
when they are tender, peel them, and pass them through a clarifying
hair sieve, and then weigh it, and combine it with the citron, and mix it
all well, and have in a boiler clarified sugar, and instantly, [it being]
thick, cast it in, and set it to cook on a fire of coals, which should be
mild, and let it cook, and stir it constantly with one hand, so that it
doesn't stick, and when the bottom of the boiler becomes white, it is
cooked: cast in a little orange-blossom water, and a little musk, and set
it aside, and beat it a while until it cools, and then cast it in the box,
and have it five or six days in the sun, and then keep it. The quantity
must be, to two pounds of sugar, one and a quarter of potato, and one
of citron.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:27:49 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato
And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain posted a recipe:
> >
> > Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine
> >
> > CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato
>
> How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato?
I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of potato
were rare enough to be of interest. One possible clue is that the
mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler turns
white. If you were starting with white potato and citron and sugar, then I
assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look whiter. If
you started with sweet potato in the mixture, could it change enough to
be called white? I'm out of my field here -- I have never dabbled in
conserves or confectionary. Maybe Mistress Alys Katherine would like
to add her two pence?
> Particularly with the sweetener and the Citron this sounds more like
> something for a sweet potato.
To our modern taste, yes, but there are many medieval recipes which
add sweetening to things we would find unusual. There's a recipe for
sweetened cooked lettuce not far from the one I translated, and...
Hmmm... I was just flipping pages here. Found another recipe, this one
for "Carne de Limon, y Batatas" -- flesh of lemon and sweet potatos. In
modern Spanish at least, "patata" is the term for the white potato.
"Batata" or "patata dulce" is the sweet potato. So unless you want to
argue scribal error (which is *always* possible), it looks to me as
though we have two potato recipes, one of each kind. (Yes, Ras, I'll
post the other, but right now I have to go to work.)
I wish I'd noticed this before, but this source is not the one I'm primarily
working with, and it's over 400 pages, and as a diabetic, I don't pay
much attention to confectionary recipes.
Lady Brighid ni ChiarainDate: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:36:35 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots
I just looked at a site yesterday that offered seeds for heirloom carrots
in a variety of colors: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/
Wild carrots have white roots. Le Menagier talks of carrots with red
roots. Gervase Markham mentions carrots of "sundry colours", and Gerard
describes a yellow carrot, and a blackish-red carrot. Carrots colored pale
orange and dark red can be seen in oil paintins of the 16th century.
Epulario uses carrots to make a jelly a sanguine color.
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:32:57 -0500
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots
>>. The orange carrot is a relatively modern invention.<<
There are late period paintings of big, fat, orange carrots. I've never
seen a maroon one, though. Check the beautiful paintings reproduced in
Castelvetro for a look at 16th and 17th C fruits and veggies.
Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:11:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources
_To the Queen's Taste_ by Lorna J. Sass, has a few Elizabethan root veggie recipes:
Lumbardy Tartes - diced red beets, currants and cheese baked in a pie
Pudding in a Turnep Root - turnips stuffed w/ apples and currants
Quelquechose - parsnips and marigolds in orange juice.
I have made the quelquechose and it is pretty tasty. It's like candied/sugared carrots in Peg Bracken's _I hate to cook_ book.
_Dining with William Shakespeare_ by Madge Lorwin white radishes (cooked w/ honey) boiled beets and fresh greens sallet stewed turnips on sippits raw turnip sallatl umbardy (beet) tartesoops of carrots (honeyied carrot soppets) raw white radishes w/ bread boiled carrot sallet Ariann
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources
There's one near the beginning of _Forme_of_Cury_, called "Rapes in potage"
(turnips in stew). At the end it says that "pasturnakes" (parsnips and/or
carrots) can be substituted for the "rapus."
For either the "rapus" or the "pasturnakes," you clean and parboil the
roots, then cook them in broth with minced (and maybe parboiled) onions,
saffron, and salt. Sprinkle it with sweet spice powder (powdour douce) just
before serving. I cooked this for a feast last year, and for vegetarians
there was a separate batch made with almond milk and a bit of oil instead of
broth.
Later in the same book is a recipe for "Frytour of pasternakes" where pieces
of parsnips (or carrots?) are coated in an ale batter, fried, and served
with almond milk.
If I recall correctly, Platina has a recipe for "armored turnips," whose
cheese coating does little to stop hungry eaters. :-)
Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:57:51 SAST-2
From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za>
Subject: Re: SC - It's Harvest Time
>There's a problem, though. I've searched through some of my historic cook books
>and I'm having difficulty finding recipes which use carrots (or parsnips for
>that matter), turnips, and beets.
I assume you have the old standbys? Platina's Armoured turnips
(layered with cheese, in Cariadoc); there's also a _wonderful_ recipe
for turnips cooked in wine with chestnuts, I can't remember where
it's from offhand, but it's in Pleyn Delit. (As you may guess, I'm
at work and have nary a book with me). Using a semi-sweet white wine
takes away the slight bitterness of turnips _beautifully_.
Cariadoc also has a couple of broths with turnips, parsnips and
carrots, from Platina and Curye on Inglish. Cariadoc's recipes are
listed at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html; mail
me if you don't have web access and I can send them to you.
Jehanne de Huguenin, called Melisant * Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town
(Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700
From: lilinah at grin.net
Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam
Lord Stefan li Rous wrote:
>I believe we determined earlier on this
>list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So
>I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement
>for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so
>I can't say how close they are in taste or texture.
There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at
least.
The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet
potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often
called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely
variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas.
According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the
Taino language from the Caribbean.
Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the
genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally
white fleshed with rough brown skins.
They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the
Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South
American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that
specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or
here in Northern California, at some supermarkets).
According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to
eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful,
and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little
gummy.
So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes
Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean,
vegetable.
Anahita
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:51 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - ramp
harper at idt.net writes:
<< who has always called the chive-like stuff in her lawn, "onion
grass") >>
Or it may be just wild chives. Chives readily reseed then selves.
Ramps more clearly resemble a small leek in structure with flattened leaves
instead of tubular ones. They do not resemble chives (perhaps garlic chives)
but are bigger than chives. They can grow to 12 inches high or more. Although
tasty they leave a foul odor on your breath and it exudes from your pores for
hours after eating them.
Ras
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:40:45 GMT
From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - ramp
> Rhiannon, to the best of my understanding ramps are different from the
>stuff growing in our yards around here, which I've always >heard called
>simply "wild onions."
ramp (ramp), n. Usu., ramps. a wild onion, Allium tricoccum, of the
amaryllis family, of E North America, having flat leaves and rounded
clusters of whitish flowers.
We have what is called "Onion Grass" here which is essentially wild onions,
and we have some ramps here too. They're kinda garlicish-onioney in taste,
and hard to find around here because most people just mow them.
If it looks like a thinner scallion type onion, it is just that
a wild onion.
>I have the vague impression that ramps grow at higher
>elevations, possibly just because of the "Ramp Festival" I remember
> >hearing about up on a mountain in the Smokies somewhere.
Yep. I forget the town though.
>And yes, the >wild onions in our yards are indeed edible, but the >are so
>strongly >flavored that I wouldn't advise using them raw (In >salads,
>etc.). I think I'd use them in something that required long, >gentle
>cooking, perhaps a stew of some kind. They are one
>of the things I've been meaning to play with someday, and haven't >quite
>gotten around too yet........... ;-)
The wild onions go great in stocks. The ones around here (and in my yard
:-) ) have a nice earthy-onion-garlic (but very different from a leek) taste
and since I only use the green most of the time since I like the little
buggers to grow as big as possible so I can use them in a soup or maybe
something I'm going to braise. I think I'm going to pot some and if I can
find some ramps, them too.
Ldy Diana, only a couple of hours north of Rhiannon, in Chattanooga
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:45:27 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Last Unanswered Buffet
And it came to pass on 17 Nov 99,, that Michael F. Gunter wrote:
> Cariota
> Roasted Carrots
>
> Roast carrots in the coals, then peel them, cleaning off the ashes, and
> cut them up.
[snip]
> The recipe listed in the book:
[snip]
> Scrub and scrape carrots, and brush lightly with oil. Either
> roast ine a 400 degree oven or arrange in one layer in a
> suitable dish for microwaving and microwave at full power,
> uncovered, 15 minutes. Slice into a serving dish and dress with
> minced herbs, oil, vinegar, wine, and salt and pepper to taste.
For what it's worth... De Villena, in _Arte de Cortar_ (1423 carving
manual) gives instructions for cutting various fruits and root vegetables,
as well as meats. He says that roasted carrots should be cut into
quarters. If they are particularly long, then each quarter may be cut into
two or three pieces. Of course, Italian practice may have been different
than the Spanish.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:06:27 -0900
From: Kerri Canepa <kerric at pobox.alaska.net>
Subject: SC - Turnips - again!
Quite by accident, I got to play with turnips recently. Having had no luck
finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes (16th c ones seem to abound), I
decided to see what I could come up with.
A Disshe of Rape
Take rape and washe hem and scrape hem and cut hem small, put hem in good water
to boyle until it is enow, throw out the water and put hem in a pot of good
broth and put in salt and pepir and boyle again and serve forth.
3 fist sized turnips
water to cover
1 can beef broth
black pepper, ground
Wash, peel, and julienne turnips (1/4 inch). Cover with water and boil for 15
minutes. Drain. Put turnips with beef broth back in the pot and simmer until
liquid is nearly gone. Salt and pepper to taste.
The first try was with chicken broth and about 3 tbs of red wine. The wine gave
the turnips a rather odd brownish color and made them rather sharp tasting. The
second try with beef broth and pepper was definitely much better tasting.
The 1/4 inch julienne breaks down to smaller pieces and the turnips are very
soft by the time this is done. They could be mashed if desired but I rather
liked the smallish pieces. I put in quite a bit of pepper and it was quite
lively.
My husband the carnivore ate the first version (chicken broth and wine) and went
for more. Hm. I could be on to something here.
Kerri
Cedrin Etainnighean, OL
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:24:26 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Turnips - again!
Kerri/Cedrin Etainnighean wrote:
> ... no luck finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes ...
Try _Forme of Cury_ recipe 7:
Rapes in potage. Take rapus and make hem clene, and wassh hem clene; quarter
hem; perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see[th] hem;
mynce oynouns and cast [th]erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with
powdour douce. In the self wise make of pasturnakes and skyrwittes.
Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:58:09 -0600
From: dhumberson at imailbox.com
Subject: RE:sca-cooks V1 #1808 - Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables
Anahita al-shazhiya wrote:
>thought i'd ask experienced feast planners what late fall/early
>winter vegetables you've served and people have actually eaten :-)
The top 'seller' for Rowan and I has always been a glazed baby carrot dish known here as 'Rowan's Carrots'. It is very rich, using a pound of butter per pound of brown sugar per eight pounds of soft-steamed baby carrots, and is also a complete pain to make.
To glaze properly, boil equal parts butter and sugar in a flat pan with about a teaspoon of water.
Add whatever hot spices your guests will tolerate( we started with ginger, are now using a ginger/galingale mix with a hint of white pepper).
The boiling mix will foam, up to three inches or so, which indicates the mix is ready for the carrots.
Add 1/4 of the total carrots for this batch, stir until the mix foams again, then transfer those carrots to a holding pan and repeat for the other 3 lots. Be careful to fully heat the glaze mix between lots, if it's not foaming vigorously the carrots will sog.
After the 4th lot, mix all carrots in holding pan( we use steam table pans), bring the remaining glaze to a boil one more time, and coat the carrots with the mix. Cover the holding pan, maintain at 160 degrees, and hold until served.
Garnish with a mint sprig and slice of the ginger used to make the syrup( if the cooks have left any).
We serve 16-24 oz per table of 8, and rarely get any back.
Hope this helps,
Ragnar
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:56:09 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables
lilinah at grin.net writes:
> I must say that there have been multiple requests to NOT serve
> armoured turnips *again*.
Is this due to the number of times served? Or is it that people don't like
turnips? If the latter, I've had great success substituting parsnips. Before
anyone asks, I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being
substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. I have also
pleased the crowd with parsnip frittors, taking boiled parsnips sprinkling
with powder dulse and wrapping in eggroll wrappers and frying. Peas boiled in
almond milk are well liked in this area too. Just a few thoughts off the top
of my head.
Corwyn
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:08:54 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables
Corwyn said:
> ... I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being
>substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. ...
I can!
Rapes in potage (near the beginning of the _Forme of Cury_) says that one
can use the same recipe to prepare skirrets or pasternakes. Pasternakes are
parsnips and/or carrots.
I haven't tried armoring them, though. What's a good cheese to use on parsnips?
Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: RE: SC - New World Foods-list
Bear wrote:
>Yams are of African origin and were probably brought into Europe early in
>the 14th Century.
Yes, but what Americans call yams are of New World origin. African
yams are a whole different vegetable.
Both what Americans call Sweet Potatoes (with deep orangy yellow
flesh) *AND* what Americans call Yams (with pale yellow flesh) are
just two varieties of the same plant, both from the New World, with
flesh of differing shades of yellow and purplish, mostly smooth skin,
both Ipomoea batatas.
What are called yams that are from Africa is something one rarely
finds in America, and is a tuber with white flesh and rough cocoa
brown skin, and are from a number of different plants within genus
Dioscorea.
Anahita al-shazhiya
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:57:23 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables
And it came to pass that RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:
> Has anyone ever seem any period evidence of preparing cooked
> radishes or for that matter, any period documentation of
> radishes being eaten at all in period?
_Arte Cisoria_, a 1423 carving manual, gives instructions for the proper
way to slice radishes. It suggests that they should be sprinkled with
salt, in order to counteract the cold, watery quality of the vegetable. It
does not indicate if the radishes are then to be eaten raw or cooked.
_Banquete de Nobles Caballeros_ (1530 health manual) has a short
chapter on radishes. It is mostly on their medical properties. Radish is
bad for the stomach. Eaten before the meal, it can cause vomiting.
However, it counteracts poison; a person who eats radishes will be
immune if he is stung by a scorpion that same day. On a more culinary
note... the author comments that it is a customary food, especially
amongst students, and that it makes a good supper when eaten with
cheese. This is also enjoyed by the folk of the palace. There is no
indication whether this is a cold supper, or if the radish is cooked with
the cheese, a la armored turnips.
De Nola (1529) has a recipe for sauce made from the root of "vexisco"
radish. It's ground up with toasted bread soaked in vinegar, then
cooked with pepper and honey. The same preparation method is also
used for parsley leaves and for the leaves of clary sage.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:46:26 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables
Bronwynmgn at aol.com writes:
<< If I recall, the middle English word
for radishes is "rafens"; am I correct in this?
Brangwayna Morgan >>
rad*ish (noun)
[Middle English, alteration of Old English raedic, from Latin radic-, radix
root, radish -- more at ROOT]
SFAIK, rafens is equal to rasens is equal to raisins............
Ras
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:24:05 -0500
From: Ian Gourdon <agincort at raex.com>
Subject: SC - Re: radishes, cooked
> > Could someone
> > suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that
> > mentions radishes?
>Um, yes, in compost. There's also a sugar candy which uses radishes as a
>substitute for pepper, IIRC. Pynades or some such. But cooked in cream
>sauce in period, I'm not aware of anything like that. On the other hand,
>since period ended (roughly) some sixteen generations ago, it's quite
>possible what he says is correct, but they could still not be period.
>Adamantius
Pynade
Curye on Inglysch p. 79 (Diuersa Servicia no. 91)
For to make a pynade, tak hony and rotys of radich & grynd yt smal in
a morter, & do to + at hony a quantite of broun sugur. Tak powder of
peper & safroun & almandys, & do al togedere. Boyl hem long & held yt on
a wet bord & let yt kele, & messe yt & do yt forth.
- --
Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe, OP
Known as a forester of the Greenwood, Midrealm
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:03:25 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - period radishes
<< Doesn't 4 Seasons of the House of Cerruti say something about
radishes? >>
Yes, there is a page on "Rafani" with a picture and the abbreviated text
from the Tacuin sanitatis. In short: it is very warm and dry in nature,
dangerous in several respects ("Was sie erzeugen: schlechte Säfte" 'what
they produce: bad humours'), to be eaten mostly by people with a cold
and humid complexion, in winter, and people living in northern, cold
countries.
I hope, everybody out there knows about her or his humoral complexion...
<< I am looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently
preparing (...) Could someone suggest a book or web site or just a
bibliography type reference that mentions radishes >>
There are many dietetic and medical works to mention "raphanus",
"radish", "Rettich" etc., for example:
- -- Giovanni Battista Fiera's "Coena. Delle virt? delle erbe e quella
parte dell'Arte medica che consiste nella regola del vitto" (1530; repr.
and ed. Mantova 1992, 79 and 133),
- -- Andrew Borde's 'Dyetary of Helth' (16th century, ed. Furnivall 1870,
p. 279),
- -- the 15th century cookbook and dietetic work of Meister Eberhard (on
my website; R96:2),
- -- Luis Lobera de Avila has a section about it (chapter XLII. of the
16th century German translation, I found recently!),
- -- etc.
There is also a 1530 dental handbook stating that eating "Rettich" is
dangerous for the teeth. And a 13th century horse book uses "retich" in
a medical recipe for sick horses ("Swelich ros ain siechs havpt hab ...
der nem retich, wol gederret ...", ed. Gerhard Eis, Meister Albrants
Ro?arzneibuch, 1939, 111:5). An appendix to a 1560 German cookery book
has a medical recipe for frozen feet to be cured using "Rettich" ("Wann
einem die fü? erfroren sindt") ...
In addition, "radici" 'ravanelli' 'radishes' are mentioned in Giovanna
Frosini's "Il cibo e i signori. La mensa dei priori di Firenze nel
quinto decennio del sec. XIV" (Firenze 1993, 118), a lexicographical
book about the culinary vocabulary of an Italian 14th century manuscript
of expenses. I take it from this, that radishes were bought and eaten
around 1350 in Florenze.
The historical dictionaries of German have _many_ citations for
"Rettich".
Best,
Thomas
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:52:58 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?
From: WyteRayven at aol.com
> My family has a very simple recipe that has been handed down from sometime
> before my Great-grandmother. She was born in England, and I am curious if
> there are period recipes similar to this. I will be checking the Florilegium,
> but I thought that I would send out a note as well.
>
> The recipe really has no measurements. Everything is done to taste. It is
> simply peel boil some carrots, and some turnips (a little less turnips than
> carrots) and mash them together with lots of butter and salt and pepper.
>
> I used to hate it as a kid, but I love it now, though we tend to only have it
> during holidays.
>
> I think that both carrots and turnips are period, but I don't know if the
> dish might be or not.
I don't know if the dish as you describe it is period, but --
Kenelm Digby (1669 C.E.) has a recipe for parsnips cooked this way. He
includes, IIRC, a bit of the cooking water so that when the butter melts
it remains emulsified, the whole forming a rather creamy puree...I
occasionally refer to this dish as parsnips Alfredo ; ), but there's no
cheese. But you know... Hmmm....
Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval
European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer to a parsnip
than a modern carrot.
As for turnips, they appear somewhat more frequently. These would be the
real purple-and-white turnips, rather than the rutabaga or Swede, which
is sometimes referred to as a turnip.
I have a diner in my neighborhood that invariably makes a mashed mixture
of carrots and parsnips in the colder months, and the smart money is on
it rather than the overcooked broccoli, the mysteriously grey peas and
carrots, and the leathery corn.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:47:57 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?
> Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval
> European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer
> to a parsnip than a modern carrot.
>
> Adamantius
The first reference to the orange carrot appears in the 12th Century and the
carrots I've found in 16th Century paintings are orange. Orange carrots
were very likely the norm by the late Middle Ages.
In Antiquity, European carrots appear to have been white like parsnips and
indeed the Latin word for carrots and parsnips is the same. Later authors,
writing in Latin add to the confusion by not differentiating.
Bear
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:14:40 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?
> You know, I tried parsnips for the first time about a month ago, and I have
> to say that I don't think I care for them.
Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):
Slice 1 lb Parsnips about 1/4 inch thin slices and fry in a little oil and butter until very well browned. (dont be timid, more done is better than less done!)
Melt 1/2 stick butter and and 1/4 cup honey together and add 1 tsp
fresh chopped tarragon. 1 1/2 tsp dried (or more if the tarragon is old) Place
the parsnips in a bowl, and pour honey mixture on it. Toss and serve hot.
The key to this is the pan fry which caramelizes the parsnips and brings out
the natural sweetness which is otherwise held in the woody root cells.
You can do this recipe with Carrots, too, especially if they are those big
woody ones you get in high summer.
Brandu
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:46:43 -0500
From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net>
Subject: SC - Found it was: Carrots and Turnips-Period?
I knew that turnips and carrots sounded familiar. So I dug through my
recipe sites and came up with this one;
Rapes in Potage
[or Carrots or Parsnips]
Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7)
Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem;
perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see+ hem;
mynce oynouns and cast + erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth
with powdour douce. In the self wise make of pastunakes and
skyrwittes.
Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots;
skirrets are, according to the OED, "a species of water parsnip,
formerly much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers." We have
never found them available in the market.
1 lb turnips, carrots, or parsnips
2 c chicken broth (canned, diluted)
1/2 lb onions
6 threads saffron
3/4 t salt
powder douce: 2 t sugar, 3/8 t cinnamon, 3/8 t ginger
Wash, peel, and quarter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are
large), cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes. If you
are using carrots or parsnips, clean them and cut them up into large
bite-sized pieces and parboil 10 minutes. Mince onions. Drain turnips,
carrots, or parsnips, and put them with onions and chicken broth in a
pot and bring to a boil. Crush saffron into about 1 t of the broth and
add seasonings to potage. Cook another 15-20 minutes, until turnips or
carrots are soft to a fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.
Melbrigda
There was som deceptyon or frawdulent
induction that hath made her to condescende
therunto
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:50:05 +1000
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?
Jeff Gedney wrote:
> Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):
<snipped recipe for fried parsnips caramelized with honey & suggestion of doing this with carrots>
I am sure that I have seen a honeyed carrot recipe in Platina, but do not have that source to hand.
At the end of my posting I have reprinted another's posted recipe for making 'a Tart of Parsneps and Scyrrets'.
I have found a honeyed turnip & carrot recipe in Le Menagier de Paris Translated by Janet Hinson. Obtained from web site:
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html
Under the section titled 'Other Odds & Ends', there is a recipe to make "compote". The result seems to be a preserve, but it does not specify whether you serve it hold or cold & it would be very nice served hot ;-)
It starts with a recipe for making walnuts essentially preserved in honey and
ultimately left "in an earthenware pot or cask, and stir once a week". Then it goes on to give recipes for preparing preserved turnips, carrots, choke-pears & gourds. The way I have read the sequential recipes is that each of the preserves are prepared separately and are _kept_ separately. Ie, it does not appear from the translated text that each additional preserve is added to the one before. It seems merely a series of individual recipes, particularly since it later goes on to describe a recipe where the preserves can be used, but seems more to be referring to just the walnut preserve rather than the other recipes - I would like other's feedback here on what they think ;-)
Anyway, included in the recipes is the following for turnips & carrots, when it
states "take honey & do the same as the walnuts", I have reprinted the appropriate text from the walnut recipe below the other 2:
Take, around All Saints Day (November 1), large turnips, and peel them and chop them in quarters, and then put on to cook in water: and when they are partially cooked, take them out and put them in cold water to make them tender, and then let them drain; and take honey and do the same as with the walnuts, and be careful not to over-cook your turnips. Item, on All Saints, take carrots as many as you wish, and when they are well cleaned and chopped in pieces, cook them like the turnips.
(Carrots are red roots which are sold at the Halles in baskets, and each basket costs one blanc.) . . .Item, when gourds are in season, take those which are neither too hard nor too tender, and peel them and remove the seeds and cut into quarters, and do the same to them as to the turnips.
Re details for preserving with honey from walnut recipe:
"and then put them [walnuts] on to boil in sweet water and let them boil just for the length of time it takes to say a Miserere, and until you see that there are none which are too hard or too soft. Then empty the water, and put them to drain on a screen, and then boil a sixth of honey or as much as they need to be all covered, and the honey should be strained and skimmed: and when it is cooled down to just warm, add your walnuts and leave them two or three days, and then put them to drain, and take as much of your honey as they can soak in, and put the honey on the fire and make it come to a good boil and skim it, and take it off the fire: and put in each hole in your walnuts a clove in one side and a little snip of ginger in the other, and then put them in the honey when it is lukewarm. And stir it two or three times a day, and at the end of three days take them out: and gather up the honey, and if there is not enough, add to it and boil and skim and boil, then put your walnuts in it; and thus each week for a month. And then leave them in an earthenware pot or a cask, and stir once a week."
TO MAKE A TART OF PARSNEPS AND SCYRRETS
The redaction (Redacted By Lord Ragnar Keitelson, Prepared by he and his Lady Wife Rowan of Ashebrook):
From Martha Washington’s Booke of Cookery p749, containing recipes from at least the previous century.: “Seeth yr roots in water& wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne them & put suger to them * some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up & butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven, & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure. “
We chose carrots for flavor and color, Scyrets (a white root resembling the shape and flavor of carrots) not being available. Besides, that makes the tarte red and white!
3/4 lb. carrots
3/4 lb. parsnips
2 c. wine
2 tbsp. butter
1/2 c. sugar
1/2 c. wine and/or rosewater
2 eggs
1 c. breadcrumbs
1 deep dish pie crust
egg for glaze
Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt H2O and the 2 c. wine until soft. Mash roughly with 1 c. breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter, melted, sugar, and rest of wine/rosewater. A rough texture here is fine. Put into pre-glazed pie crust (brush some of the egg across the bottom to prevent soggy crust), glaze top with remaining egg, put in pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 mins.
Lorix
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:05:21 -0400
From: Jennifer L Sweet <minxkitten at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Roots and war
okay, now this may or may not be of use. concerning the storage of root
vegetables, the book Stocking Up, by Rodale Press, copyright date 1977
states: By alternating layers of dried leaves with layers of produce in
wooden boxes, they have firm and edible potatoes, apples, rutabagas,
carrots, and beets for as long as 50 weeks after they stored them...
Pails, baskets and watertight barrels are used just as boxes
are...finishing with 2 inches or more of packing at the top.
other packing materials recommended are hay, straw, sphagnum moss, or
damp crumpled burlap. they actually mention old clean stockings for
onions and garlic... stuff one into the toe, tie a knot, stuff another in
behind the first, tie a knot, etc.
Branwen
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:40:57 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - CAWL CENNIN CYMRAEG - WELSH LAMB STEW WITH LEEKS
Adamantius wrote:
>I believe swedes/rutabagas existed in Europe in period, but I could be
>remembering a non-fact. I have a vague recollection of them being
>introduced to places like Britain somewhat after period, but I believe
>they are indigenous to Eurasia and as old as other root vegetables.
While the origins of the swede/rutabaga are somewhat shrouded in mystery,
most sources agree that they originate in Central Europe, probably in the
late medieval period, and reached England and France via Sweden in late 17th
or early 18th century, probably mostly as a fodder plant. IIRC, they weren´t
grown for human consumption in Britain until the latter part of the 18th
century but I may be wrong - I don´t have the source for this at hand just
now. (The name rutabaga is also of Swedish origin, as they were widely grown
in Sweden early on.)
Swedes/rutabagas were brought to Iceland in the 18th century and became
quite popular, as they are one of the easiest vegetables to grow in the
harsh conditions here. They were one of the three vegetables of my childhood
(the others were potatoes and white cabbage). The Icelandic Rutabaga
FarmerÕs Association is trying to advertise them as "the lemon of the
North", Yeah, right.
Nanna
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:09:08 EDT
From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Protectorate Feast 3 - Menu
ddfr at best.com writes:
> I'm not familiar with the recipe. Is it clear that it was written pre-1600,
and is it clear
> that it is sweet potatoes? While I know of references to eating potatoes
just pre-
> 1600, I didn't know of any actual recipes that early--but then, there's a
lot I don't
> know about late period cooking.
In the preface to the book, there is mention of an inscription in the front
of Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book which says: Lady Elinor Fettiplace, 1604.
Fettiplace offers three recipes with sweet potatoes.
Prior to this recipe, Hilary Spurling states: "If almond soup goes back to
medieval times, the buttered potato roots given below were still, in the
late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries, a brand new vegetable from
the New World. Columbus had brought sweet potatoes back from America (our
ordinary modern potato did not reach the English markets until the 1640's)
and by Lady Fettiplace's day they had become a regular autumn import from
Spain, highly popular on account of their supposed aphrodesiac properties."
On pg 193: To Butter Potato Roots
"Take the roots & boile them in water, till they bee verie soft, then peele
them & slice them , then put some rosewater to them & sugar & the pill of an
orenge, & some of the iuice of the orenge, so let them boile a good while,
then put some butter to them & when it is melted, serve them. This way you
may bake them, but put them unboiled into the paste."
On pg 194, To Preserve Potatoes
"Boile your roots in faire water untill they bee somewhat tender then pill of
the skinne, then make your syrupe, weying to every pound of roots a pound of
sugar and a quarter of a pinte of faire water, & as much of rose water, & the
iuice of three or fowre orenges, then boile the syrupe & scum it, then cut
your roots in the middle & put them into the syrup, & boole them till they
bee throughlie soaked in the syrupe, before you take it from the fire, put in
a little musk and amber greece."
In Service,
Ilaria
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:04:33 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - Confession is good for the soul
And it came to pass on 3 Nov 00, , that Jenne Heise wrote:
> Raw veggies: turnips, celery, and carrots. (Raw carrot eating appears to
> be unperiod, but I have references which may be to eating celery and
> turnips raw as snacks)
> --
> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net
Permit me to offer a period reference to raw carrot eating:
Enrique de Villena, _Arte Cisoria_ (The Art of Carving)
Spanish, 1423
(my translation)
The carrots, when eaten raw, are to be well cleaned of the dirt and
the thin hairs that they have, scraped with the knife that cuts them;
then remove their leaves with all of the green and cut it them into
four parts, removing the core from each part, if they are thick and
will allow it; [do] that upon serving them; and if they are long, divide
each quarter in two or three parts; and if they are thin, there is very
little core in them and know that you can eat everything together.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:27:21 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Parsnips (was Re: SC - Sauce for Sausage?)
Jadwiga requested a recipe for parsnips, preferably buttered and
spiced. How about batter-fried and spiced?
There's a recipe in Scully's _The Neapolitan Recipe Collection_,
which is 15th century Italian. (The translation is his.)
170. Parsnips
Clean big ones well and remove the woody part in the middle, and
boil them; when they are cooked, flour them and fry them in good
oil -- but before that, dry them well on a small board; then, to make
them better, get a bowl of flour tempered with water, add sugar,
cinnamon, saffron and rosewater, coat the parsnips with this
mixture and put them in the pan with hot oil; then put spices on top
of them and serve them properly seasoned like that.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:27:08 -0800
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes
I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night. Bearing in
mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval
spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval
cooking italian got me.
>From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi P. 139
To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk
Take white pasternakes and put to cook. and when they are well cooked
remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them. And when they are
blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese. And if it [troubles a
heart???] turn out [the one?]. and then press them, take a good martar and
pound them well, and put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of
that which you like, and cook them in the way of courds. And when they give
to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest broth you
have and mix it in. And with it cheese deliver have sliced, and if you
want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk instead of almonds.
Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &
then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it
may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it
was worth having translated properly by someone else :->
Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...
Eden Rain
raghead at liripipe.com
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:25:13 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - buttered parsnips/period parsnip recipes
hey all from Anne-Marie
here is the Madrone Culinary Guilds version for Digby's (not medieval, but dang
tasty :)) parsnips. Some food weenies get freaked out becuase they REALLY look
like mashed potatoes but they REALLY dont taste like them :). Personally, I
love 'em.
all rights reserved, no publication without permission, enjoy! we're hoping to
include this in our Feudal Gourmet pamphlet on Elizabethan food (when it
migrates moer to the top of me pending projects pile). if you end up using it,
please let me know how it came out and how you liked it. Feedback is useful
:).
have fun!
- -AM
****************************************************************************
Dressed Parsnips
A very simple dish of parsnips and milk. They look suprisingly like mashed
potatoes, and have a very delicate, nutty flavor, not unlike squash or sweet
potatoes. They are exceedingly rich, and a little goes a long way. Digby is
right, they "have a natural Sweetness that is beyond Sugar, and will be
unctuous, so as not to need Butter". The only drawback is that it takes a very
long time with constant stirring to get the parsnips to absorb all that milk,
but the time is worth it!
To Dress Parsnips
Scrape well three or four good large roots, cleaning well their outside, and
cutting off as much of the little end as is fibrous, and of the great end as is
hard. put them into a posnet or Pot with about a quart of milk upon them or as
much as will cover them in boiling; which do moderately, till you find they are
very tender. This may be in an hour and half, sooner or later, as the roots are
of a good kind. Then take them out and scrape all the outside into a pulp, like
the pulp of rosted Apples, which put in in a dish up on a Chafing -dish of
Coals, with a little of the ilk you boiled them in, put to them; not so much as
to drown them, but only to imbibe them: and then with stewing, the pulp will
imbibe all that Milk. When you see it is drunk in, put to the pulp a little
more of the same Milk, and stew that, till it be drunk in. Continue doing thus
till it hath drunk in a good quantity of the Milk, and is well swelled with it,
and will take in no more, which may be in a good half hour. Eat them so,
without Sugar or Butter; for they will have a natural Sweetness that is beyond
Sugar, and will be unctuous, so as not to need Butter.
Our Version: (Serves 10)
2 lb parsnips
6 cups milk
Scrub the parsnips and take off the tough big end and the fibrous little end.
Remove any hairs if needed. Add milk to cover and simmer gently, stirring
occasionally. Cook until soft, about 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. Remove the milk,
and set aside for later. Let parsnips cool. Remove outer peel and fibrous core
by squishing with your hand and pulling out tough bits. Put parsnips back in
the pot, and mash. Add about 1/4 cup of the milk and stir vigorously over
medium-low heat until milk is all absorbed and the nips are the consistency of
mashed potatoes. Add 1/4 cup more milk and keep stirring until that is
absorbed. Pick out any fibrous bits that won't mash up nicely. Keep repeating
this till all the milk is gone, and the parsnips are an even glop, as wet as
scrambled eggs. Dish up and serve warm.
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:02:41 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes
And it came to pass on 11 Dec 00, , that E. Rain wrote:
> I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night. Bearing in
> mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval
> spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval
> cooking italian got me.
Well, I have never studied Catalan (modern or medieval), but
sometimes I can stumble through a recipe, with the help of a
dictionary and knowledge of Spanish and French. I *think* I can
shed some light on the gaps in your very creditable translation.
> >From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi P. 139
> To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk
> Take white pasternakes and put to cook. and when they are well cooked
> remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them.
It think it is "peel". Literally, "parar" means "to prepare", but in
Spanish, it is often used to mean "peel".
> And when they are
> blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese.
Press them between 2 chopping-blocks (this instruction appears a
*lot* in Nola, whenever moisture has to be squeezed out of a food)
with which you make cheese.
> And if it [troubles a
> heart???] turn out [the one?].
I think this is an instruction to remove the woody core, if you find
one.
> and then press them, take a good martar and pound them well, and
> put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of that which
> you like, and cook them in the way of courds. And when they give
> to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest
> broth you have and mix it in. And with it cheese deliver have
> sliced,
And put in cheese ___ sliced (and grated).
> and if you want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk
> instead of almonds.
>
> Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &
> then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it
> may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it
> was worth having translated properly by someone else :->
You've got the essence of it, as far as I can tell. The parsnips are
parboiled, peeled and mashed, then cooked with mutton broth and
bacon. Add the end, add almond milk and grated cheese. So...
do we have a Catalan translator in the house?
> Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: RE [Sca-cooks] Royal Buffet post-mortem
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:31:43 -0500
>It all sounds delicious!
>Where was the roasted carrot salad from again?
>
>Lucrezia
Most of the dishes were from Pleyn Delit.
The carrot salad is called "Carrots Roste".
The carrots were roasted and dressed with
herbs (parsley, dill, thyme) and wine vinegar.
Salt and pepper and a bit of ginger (I believe)
and some olive oil.
The carrots were roasted al dente and tasted
very fresh and summery.
Gunthar
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] "Carrots Roste"
Gunthar wrote:
> Most of the dishes were from Pleyn Delit.
> The carrot salad is called "Carrots Roste".
> The carrots were roasted and dressed with
> herbs (parsley, dill, thyme) and wine vinegar.
> Salt and pepper and a bit of ginger (I believe)
> and some olive oil.
>
> The carrots were roasted al dente and tasted
> very fresh and summery.
We used this recipe as a feast dish for
Northrealms Banner War, and it worked quite well.
We originally used 1/2 parsley and 1/2 tarragon
for the herbs (not specified in the original),
which made a tasty test batch; however, the
weekend of the War, there was no fresh tarragon
to be had anywhere in town! We went with 1/2
parsley and 1/2 thyme, and that worked, too.
To save time at a large event, we used pre-
packaged "baby carrots", which worked beautifully,
though I recall that the book tells you *not*
to use them, for some reason (we decided to live
dangerously and give 'em a try anyway).
As has been noted by others, carrots
seem unpopular at feasts -- we had lots of this
dish left over at the end. However, since it was
a 3-day event, we recycled them in a "leftover
stew" for dinner the next night, where they
provided extra flavor, and nobody had any
objections to them at all (they didn't even
need to be cut into smaller pieces! I love
modern conveniences sometimes . . .).
FWIW, I really like this method of
preparing carrots. If they're cooked to just
a crisp-tender consistency, they're much nicer
than the average run of cooked root veggies.
-- Ruth
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Period food myths
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 09:54:18 -0500
Unfortunately, reality is quite a bit more complex than that. There are six
colors of carrot known to precede the orange, white, yellow, purple, red,
green and black.
White carrots are the original carrot of Europe. Purple (or possibly black)
carrots are from Asia. Yellow carrots are a hybrid, possibly natural, which
are first noted in Asia Minor (Byzantine Turkey) in the 10th Century. There
is some speculation that white, yellow and purple carrots have been eaten in
Asia Minor since prehistory.
The Asiatic carrots are introduced into Europe through Spain. A manuscript
by a 12th Century Moor describes two types of carrots, red (which may have
been purple) and a green shading into yellow. The red was the better
eating, according to the correspondent. The first European reference to
carrots as other than white is in the late 11th Century.
The orange carrot is a hybrid obtained by crossing yellow and red carrots.
Most of this hybridization was done by the Dutch and the Flemish. Orange
carrots appear in at least one late 16th Century Dutch painting (placing the
orange carrot arguably within period), but a formal written description of
the orange varietals does not appear until the 17th Century. The Dutch
hybrids are where most of our modern carrots come from, as the Dutch were
hybridizing for better taste and texture.
Interestingly, you may find purple carrots at the grocery. If you do, the
are probably not the purple carrot of Antiquity, but hybrids from a breeding
project by Leonard Pike of Texas A&M.
Bear
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:06:21 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook swedes and turnips
Hrolf Douglasson wrote:
>>""> Umm, I have no idea if someone earlier has mentioned this. But
>>swedes are turnips, usually the type that are white with purple bits.
>
> The white small things with purple tops are TURNIPS in the UK.
> Swedes are larger About the size of a cob loaf to the size of a football and
> are in no way related to potatos. They are a member of the mangle wurzel
> family and were introduced to the UK in the early middle ages. After the
> normans but berfore the tudors.
Swedes are the yellow turnips known as turnips in _Scotland_, although
not in the rest of the UK, while commonly called either turnips/yellow
turnips or rutabaga in the U.S. (I believe it was an American who asked
about this).
Adamantius
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:14:56 -0500
I'm curious as to the source which specifies the rutabaga as a 19th Century
hybrid. An Oregon State University fact sheet provides the information that
the rutabaga is mentioned in Bauhin's Prodromus and Morrison's plant
catalog, both 17th Century publications.
The Bauhin reference is most probably Caspar (Gaspard) Bauhin's Pinax or
Theatri Botanici of 1623.
Bear
> > >b.) swedes
> >
> > Swedes are rutabegas. They were developed in Sweden in the
> > nineteenth century, and are related to turnips. They are *definately
> > not* period for Vikings.
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Carrots was [Sca-cooks] Period squash
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:51:12 -0600
>I was especially interested in the orange carrots.
>
>Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Red and purple carrots which are believed to originate in Afghanistan were
brought into the Mediterranean basin from Central Asia by the Islamic
expansion.
Yellow carrots are first noticed in Asia Minor during the 10th Century.
Yellow carrots are a mutation of the red and purple carrots and lack the
anthocyanins which produce the red and purple colors. Red and yellow
carrots are recorded in 12th Century Andalusia.
The Asiatic carrots probably entered Christian Europe between the 10th and
11th Centuries and had largely replaced white carrots in northwestern Europe
by the 13th Century. They are known to have been introduced into England by
the Flemings in the 14th Century.
In the 16th Century, Flemish hybridizers while trying to produce larger,
firmer, better tasting carrots bred yellow and red carrots together
modifying the anthcyanins to produce an orange color. Our modern carrots
come from about five breeding lines of Flemish orange carrot. These were
formally described in the 17th Century.
Because Buecklaer is a Flemish artist, you get orange carrots in his
late-16th Century paintings.
Bear
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:08:35 +0000
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: sca-cooks at treaclemine.cix.co.uk (Amanda Baker)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period carrots
Because I am fascinated by all purple foods, I've been doing some
research into period carrots. So my eyebrows shot up when I saw the SCA
Cooks digest from Monday with the following message:
>From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period squash
>
>> > If you go to
>> > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/beuckela/
>> > and look at the vegetable market, you can see some period Flemish
>> > squash.
>> > Jeffrey Heilveil M.S.
>
>There are other paintings of food interest on the same site. Among
>them:
>Pieter Aertsen, "Market Woman with Vegetable Stall"
>
>Joachim Beuckelar, "Vegetable Seller", "Market Scene", "Market
>Woman with Fruit, Vegetables, and Poultry", :Woman Selling
>Vegetables"
>
>Caravaggio, "Boy with a Basket of Fruit"
>
>I was especially interested in the orange carrots.
I immediately pulled down the books, fired up my Web browser and
went hunting. Now, Alan Davidson in his 'Oxford Companion to Food' states
in the entry on carrots (a) "The first sign of truly orange carrots is
in Dutch paintings of the C17th"; (b) "They [orange carrots] were first
described, also in the Netherlands*, in the C18th; (c) "From contemporary
botanists' descriptions, and in particular from a a paiting ('Christ and the
adulteress', Pieter Aertsen, 1559) it is clear that all these carrots were
pale yellow or purple". So, I looked at the reproduction of that particular
painting on the Website cited above ... and the carrots looked orange to me.
My preliminary conclusion is, therefore, that the apparent orange
colour of the carrots illustrated on this Website is only an artefact of the image reproduction technology, since the expert - Alan Davidson - and his sources, who have presumably seen the originals, describe the carrots in 'Christ and the adulteress' as 'pale yellow'. Colours are notoriously difficult to
judge from reproductions, I believe.
http://www.cals.wisc.edu/media/news/02_00/carrot_pigment.html
implies that Davidson's analysis is based upon reasonably old research
'About 40 years ago, a Dutch researcher used paintings depicting vegetables to gather historical information about carrots.' So, has anyone on SCA Cooks seen the _originals_ of any of these paintings, or any more recent further discussion
of whether they depict orange, or pale yellow, roots?
All the best from Wales,
Amanda
* BTW, 'Holland' is a district of the country called in English, 'The
Netherlands', a bit like a UK county, a Canadian province or USA state.
Bit like calling the UK, 'England', or Canada, 'Alberta' or the USA,
'Maine', really :-)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:47:38 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yellow carrots?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I just found a bunch of yellow carrots in the market. Anyone know how
> they are related to the medieval "white" ones?
>
> UlfR
The white ones are the European carrot although it probably originated in
Central Asia. The reds and purples came out of Central Asia probably about
the time of the Islamic expansion. The first reference to yellow carrots is
10th or 11th Century from Asia Minor. The yellow carrot is related to the
red, but with only minimal amounts of the chemical that causes the red
pigmentation. At least one Andalusian writer considered the yellow
carrots inferior to the red.
The colored carrots entered Christian Europe from Spain around the 13th
Century. They are believed to have been introduced into England in the
15th Century by Dutch refugees.
The orange carrots we eat today are a Dutch hybrid developed in the 16th
Century. All of our modern orange carrots come from about five strains
Of Dutch carrots first cataloged in the 17th Century.
Bear
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:08:12 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost: Black Radishes, Carrots
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Daniel Myers wrote:
>> Pasternak can mean both carrot and parsnip - and as others have said,
>> they probably used whichever they had on hand. I can usually get
>> parsnips here, so I usually use both (adds variety).
>
> I believe you both, this is what i have heard. But where does this
> information come from? Where does it say so explicitly?
>
> Anahita
Try Pliny, "There is one kind of wild pastinaca which grows spontaneously;
by the Greeks it is known as staphylinos. Another kind is grown either from
the root transplanted or else from seed, the ground being dug to a very
considerable depth for the purpose. It begins to be fit for eating at the
end of the year, but it is still better at the end of two; even then,
however, it preserves its strong pungent flavour, which it is found
impossible to get rid of."
Athenaeus, and possibly Apicius, if De Re Coquinaria truly is Apicius' work,
first used carota to describe the carrot. To Athenaeus, parsnips and carrots
were the same vegetable, while one of Apicius' recipes is for Caroetas et
Pastinacae, providing a differentiation between the two vegetables. In the
2nd Century, Galen established the differentiation between the parsnip and
the carrot by naming the carrot Daucus pastinaca.
European carrots were white until about the 13th Century and red and yellow
carrots were only introduced into England by Flemish refugees in the 14th
Century. So for the Forme of Cury, pasternak might mean either the white
carrot or the parsnip.
Bear
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:22:53 -0400
From: "Sharon Gordon" <gordonse at one.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Siege Cooking Competition: Carrots and
Competitions
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Stefan asked:
>>>
I wondered about that, too. But if you use the leaves/stems as well as
the roots is it a root vegetable? Are carrot tops even edible? Are
there period recipes which call for these? Perhaps salads?
<<<
***Carrot tops are edible. They taste somewhat like parsley but stronger.
Some carrot tops are sweet but strong. Others have a more bitter taste like
they may have been grown in a hot dry area. I have used small amounts of the
sweeter ones in soups. For people to be able to eat any large amounts of
them, I think some breeders will need to work on getting the flavor milder
and sweeter such as has been done for beet or turnip greens. At the moment
I can't think of a period recipe for carrot tops. Here's a modern summary
of info on carrot uses and medical info:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Daucus+carota+sativus
<snip>
Sharon
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:01:40 -0800
From: "Rikke D. Giles" <rgiles at centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Purple Carrot Returns and then Some
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
William de Grandfort wrote:
> After my original inquiry, I did a little bit of research on the
> history of the carrot...
<snip>
> A few botanical references indicate that what we know as the modern
> carrot today is a cultivated form of the
> common weed known as Queen Anne's Lace.
Yes, they are the same species as Queen Anne's Lace, Daucus carrota, I
think it is. I've grown some of the new white, purple, yellow and red
varieties. White is bitter, pithy and not sweet. Purple is not very
easy to grow to any large size and not very tasty. Yellow wasn't too
bad, but not as sweet as orange. Red was pretty good, very carrot
flavor, best for juicing. I'm not sure if every variety I've grown
corresponds to those in the picture, so I can't tell if they've made
advances or not. The above is only my experience; perhaps in other
regions the colorful carrots taste better.
Queen Anne's Lace roots, btw, are white and purple around here. They
are generally spindly, tough and not very flavorful.
Aelianora de Wintringham
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:12:25 -0600
From: "margaret" <m.p.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Purple Carrot Returns and then Some
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Weren't the 'original' carrots dark red? I seem to recall reading that
> somewhere on this list.
> Or not.
>
> William de Grandfort
Carrots come in a number of colors. White originates in Europe, dark red
originates in Central Asia. The purple is an Asiatic carrot probably
hybridized in China. The modern purple carrot was created by a project in
Texas to breed back to the original form.
Yellow carrots show up in Asia Minor around the 10th Century. They and red
carrots show up in Andalusia around the 12th Century. The modern orange
carrot is believed to be hybridized from the red and the yellow in the 16th
Century. Scientific literature in the 17th Century identifies five orange
strains which are the strains our orange carrots derive from.
Bear
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:40:33 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Purple Carrot Returns and then Some
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Queen Anne's Lace is the wild variety of Daucus carota. It's root is white
and is difficult to differentiate from parsnips, so that it was not formally
identified as a separate plant until the 1st or 2nd Century. Genus Daucus
is of Eurasian origin. While the white Queen Anne's Lace became the
standard European carrot (probably in prehistoric times) while colored
carrots developed in various parts of Asia and the Near East.
The Romans probably ate white carrots, but at least one fresco suggests they
may have known about some of the Asiatic carrots. Unfortunately, I haven't
seen much evidence beyond that. The first reference to yellow carrots is
from an 10th Century Arab text locating them in Asia Minor. An Andalusian
text comments on a taste test between yellow and red carrots (probably
brought from Central Asia during the Islamic Expansion). In taste and
texture, the red was favored.
The Asiatic carrots apparently crossed into Christian Europe from Moorish
Spain in the 13th Century.
The orange carrot is most definitely Dutch. The orange color is probably an
offshoot of trying to developed a sweeter carrot rather than a deliberate
attempt to make an orange carrot. Orange carrots appear in late 16th
Century Flemish paintings and the orange varietals being bred in Holland
were recorded in the 17th Century.
BTW, The Dutch introduced the cultivation of colored carrots to England in
the 14th Century.
Bear
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:13:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I posted a URL on another list of a painting that had a food scene in it. Someone commented about the orange carrots, so I looked at more paintings done by Pieter Aertsen and Joachim Beuckelaer and found 14 painting that had carrots of various colors in them. Some of the white carrots might be turnips. It is hard for me to tell.
Huette
These have white carrots or perhaps turnips...
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=16236
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21319
These are hard to decide if they are white or orange...
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21617
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21611
These look more orange to me
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21613
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21614
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21618
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21619
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21327
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21318
These have purple, white and orange carrots
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21326
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21325
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21323
http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21330
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:50:29 -0500
From: "Denise Wolff" <scadian at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html
http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history2.html
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:49:29 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I posted a URL on another list of a painting that had a food scene
> in it. Someone commented
> about the orange carrots, so I looked at more paintings done by
> Pieter Aertsen and Joachim
> Beuckelaer and found 14 painting that had carrots of various colors
> in them. Some of the
> white carrots might be turnips. It is hard for me to tell.
>
> Huette
>
> These have white carrots or perhaps turnips...
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=16236
If you mean the two carrots center bottom, lying on the edge of the
basket, I would have described them as orange--just about the color
of modern carrots. Are you seeing something else?
----------
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21319
To me these are clearly white, and might be parsnips.
> These are hard to decide if they are white or orange...
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21617
bottom right corner? Look pretty orange to me.
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21611
Bottom center. Hard to decide white or orange, and not entirely clear
that they are carrots, since you can't see much of them.
> These look more orange to me
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21613
Yes. But no more so than the first ones (16236).
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21614
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21618
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21619
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21327
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21318
>
> These have purple, white and orange carrots
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21326
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21325
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21323
> http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=21330
Neat.
So I assume your project is:
1. Determine from paintings the nature of all vegetables in Europe in
the 16th century.
2. Repeat for 15th, 14th, ....
3. Produce a vegetable time line, showing when carrots became about
the color of modern carrots, when cardoons turned into artichokes,
...
Along the way producing an egg time line, showing just what modern
egg size is appropriate for each century, and a weight of chickens of
various sorts, ... .
Go to it.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 06:50:34 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
There are records from 17th Century Flanders that show several different
strains of orange carrot from which all of our modern orange carrots appear
to descend. The paintings show orange carrots in the 16th Century, so we
know they were in Flanders before the written record. Flemish immigrants
introduced red and yellow carrots into England in the late 14th Century, but
there is no record of orange carrots. This suggests that the hybridization
of the orange carrot took place in Flanders during the 15th or early 16th
Century and use was probably geographically limited until the 17th
Century.
Bear
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:06:56 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
--On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter
<countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional
> bar food in France and the continent.
>
> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.
> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was
> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a
> tavern or inn one of these days.
I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.
Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the
stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I
can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other
things in the third course.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:10:32 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
There are recipes that mention ground radishes.
From the FoC--
XXXII - For To Make A Pynade Or Pyvade. Take Hony and Rotys of Radich
and grynd yt smal in a morter and do yt thereto that hony a quantite of
broun sugur and do thereto. Tak Powder of Peper and Safroun and Almandys
and do al togedere boyl hem long and hold yt in a wet bord and let yt
kele and messe yt and do yt forth.
Johnnae
> --On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter
> <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional
>> bar food in France and the continent.
>>
>> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.
>> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was
>> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a
>> tavern or inn one of these days.
>
> I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.
> Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the
> stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I
> can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other
> things in the third course.
> toodles, margaret
<the end>