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root-veg-msg – 6/12/10

 

Medieval root vegetables. carrots. potatoes. onions, parsnips, sweet potatoes, Radishes.

 

NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, potatoes-msg, carrots-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, fennel-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:31:21 -0700

Subject: Re: sca-cooks Turnips

 

Rutabegas are not period, they are a turnip cabbage hybrid, created

for some reason that escapes me at the moment

 

Susan

 

>eaten raw. Also do not confuse turnips with rutabagas which are decidedly

>stronger in flavor. As a rule of thumb, turnips are small white at the

>bottom, with a light purple blush on top.

>Rutabagas are VERY large, usually coated with wax, yellowish flesh,

>dirty white bottom and a deep purple top.

>Lord Ras

 

 

From: Michael Newton <Michael Newton at postoffice at worldnet.att.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Parsnip reciepe

Date: 15 Jun 1997 20:11:15 GMT

 

What kind of Stout {brand names would be helpful} would one use in this

reciepe:

 

Parsnips Stewed in Dark Beer or Stout

1 lbs. parsnips peeled and cut in 2 in. chunks

1 cup dark beer or stout

A 1 in piece of stick cinnamon

2 large blades of mace

3 whole cloves

pinch of salt

pinch of pepper

 

place all ingredients in a heavy, medium size saucepan and simmer,

covered, 30 to 35 minutes until you can pierce patsnips easily with a

fork. Turn heat to low and simmer, uncovered, 10 to 15 min. longer until

the beer or stout has thickened into a glaze. Remove spices and serve

parsnips hot as an accompaniment to roast fowl, ham, or pork.

 

From Recipes from America's Restored Villages

Chapter on Plimoth Plantation, Plymouth, Mass.

by Jean Anderson

 

I was thinking about making this receipe for a period potluck our shire

is having next month.

 

Lady Beatrix of Thanet

 

 

From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:33 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips

 

On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:

> Kohlrabi.  Yummm.   I would think it a bit too zesty... but worth

> considering.  (My mother used to be *astonished* at the quantity of raw

> kohlrabi I would consume at one sitting.  And not a tiny bit upset: that

> stuff cost money.)

>

> For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable, rather

> ball shaped, and with several stalks arising from various places on the top

> hemisphere of the root.  It is a vaguely "institutional green", and we used

> to peel and slice it into salads.  Taste and texture similar to radishes

> that are slightly sharp.

>

> I have no idea if it is period.  I do know it is delicious.

>

>      Tibor

 

I think it is.

 

From what I can find in Gerard's Herbal, there is a "round Rape Cole" listed

and pictured, that looks exactly like a kohlrabi. He says that they grow in

Italy, Spain and Germany, from where he recieved his seeds. They are

accounted as daintie meats, contending with the Cabbage in taste.

 

Ceridwen

 

 

From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips

 

<< For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable >>

 

Order Papaverales

Family Cruciferae

Brassica caulorapa

 

Native of Europe. Some people consider it variety (var. gongylodes) of

Broccoli (B. oleracea).

 

 

From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:36 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: SC - Kohlrabi

 

<< I can see how you might describe it as radish-like.  I wonder if that is

caused by different growing conditions? >>

 

This is ideed the case. Kohlrabi must be grown with plenty of moisture and

cool temperatures rather quickly and eaten when fairly young. If not, the

tuber becomes woody and strong tasting.

 

Lord Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:30:01 -0700

From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)

Subject: SC - SKIRRETS

 

Hello, well, finally made it to the library after the skirret info. and

here it is:

 

"The World Encyclopedia of Food"

copyright 1982 L. Patrick Coyle

ISBN 0-87196-417-1

 

(BTW really yummy book.. :-) ...once a herald, always a herald...  :-)

 

Page 612

 

I didn't copy word for word, this is the gist of the entry...

 

Skirret, also Chervin, the roots of Sium sisarum; originated in Eastern

Asai, but cultivated in Europe since Roman times.  Supposed to have a

sweet taste, with a woody core which is removed before cooking [rather

like parsnips, I think]  The taste is compared to sweet potates.  Also

dried and ground for a coffee substitute.

 

This is a huge book that has probably *almost* everything ever known to

have been eaten for  food in the world.  If anyone spots a source for

it, I would love to get a copy! to keep at home and read.

 

Well, good cooking and happy feasting everyone.

Mairi

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:03:03 -0700

From: kat <kat at kagan.com>

Subject: SC - parsnips!

 

Juana Teresa entertained us with:

> Lady Katerine is SO right about the "underratedness" of parsnips.

> yea, parsnips....yea, parsnips...gimme a "P", gimme an "A"....

 

> sorry; I'll go quietly now.

> Juana Teresa

 

Go not, milady; I agree with you entirely!

 

I am always amazed and confuzzled by people who consider parsnips =

"yucky" or "bitter."  My father taught me his method of making parsnips; =

which are soooo lovely I've even served them at feasts (and cursed =

myself for not saving any for ME; they were vacuumed instantly...)

 

Would this be considered a "period" method of serving this very period =

veggie? (..she asks, over a year since she already did it <blush>)

 

        Glenn's Minnesota Parsnips

 

        2-3 peeled parsnips, cut into sticks

        Butter

        White pepper

 

        Cut parsnips to size of veggie-tray carrot sticks (about 2-3" long; =

about 1/2 to 3/4" thick.  Parboil them till tender but NOT mushy (about =

10-20 minutes).  Throw them in a saucepan and fry them in butter, =

seasoned to taste with white pepper, till edges are golden-brown. =20

 

The end result is sweet as candy (just as sweet, in my opinion, as the =

brown-sugar-glazed carrots I serve them with every Thanksgiving) and =

absolutely delightful.  Please, let's not talk about cholesterol, =

though.... <grin>

 

What other parsnip recipes are out there?  Can someone give me a more =

period recipe?

 

        Always curious,

               - kat

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:20:29 -0500

From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re:  SC - parsnips! (was re:  chicken on string)

 

Hi, Katerine here.  kat asks whether parboiled parsnips fried lightly

in butter are period.  I haven't seen a recipe for that, but vegetables

are relatively lightly represented in the corpus, at least partly

because they were simply prepared (Taillevent even says so).

 

The recipes I know of call for boiling (there's a lovely soup of boiled

parsnips or turnips or skirrets in beef broth with sweet spices, for

instance).

 

- -- Katerine/Terry

 

 

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 19:00:45 -0700

From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)

Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string

 

Melissa Hicks wrote:

[snipped a good bit]

 

> In all my modern herb books I cannot find 'skirrets' except one...which

> describes a herb with an edible root which was highly prized by the

> Romans and which has the botanical name:

> Sium Sisarum.  Any ideas anyone?

> Drake Morgan,

> Politarchopolis.

 

Aha!!Gardening--something I know lots about! I have a reference to

skirrets, just a minute.....Sorry that took so long <cough cough, the

dust on that bookcase is choking me...>

 

Here it is:

"Gardening for Good Eating"

Helen Morgenthau Fox

Collier Books, New York

Copyright 1943 by The Macmillan Company, renewed 1971 by the author

!st edition Collier Books, 1973

2nd printing 1974

these two are the paperback editions.

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-12964

 

And I quote the entire passage, pages54 &55:

=================================================================

 

In the sixteenth century, skirrets, Sium sisarum, were brought to Europe

from Siberia and Persia, where they grew wild.  The plant is a hard

perennial and has fleshy twisted roots, clustered like dahlia tubers.

Formerly these roots were a highly esteemed vegetable.  Skirrets were

grown in Mobile, Alabama, in 1775 and are now obtinable from several

nurseries in the United States.  The plants make thick lush growth about

2 feet high.  The stems and divided leaves are a fresh yellow-green, and

the white flowers, in umbels, are somewhat weedy.  The shoots and stems

have been blanched and eaten as a spring salad.  They have a pleasant,

slightly camphoracieous taste, and the roots, too, have a pleasant

flavor.

   To increase the supply of plants, they can readily be grown from

see, or the roots can be divided in autumn, wintered over in a sandy bed

and set out again in the garden in spring.  They are hardy enough to

endure the winter outdoors, but this method of wintering over perennials

in the North has been found highly satisfactory.  It does away with the

danger of plants being heaved out of the earth through thawing and

freezing.

   The roots can be washed, scraped, and then steamed or boiled and

served like any root vegetables.  To keep them from darkening after

peeling, they are dropped in water with lemon in it.  This is Mrs.

Glasse's recipe to fricassee skirrets:

   Wash the roots very well, boil them till they are tender; the thin

skin of the roots must be removed and the roots are cut in slices--have

ready a little cream, a piece of butter rolled in flour, the yolk of an

egg beaten, a little nutmeg, 2 to 3 spoonfuls of white wine, a little

salt and stir all together.  Your roots being in a dish pour the sauce

over them.

   to this might be added, put the whole dish in the oven to brown.

Rosemary can be substituted for nutmeg.

===========================

Hope this helps you out, tho I don't know who might have seeds or

plants,you could check sead saver exchanges or rare seed companies.

Mairi

- --

Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi Broder, Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe> and  Curtis

Edenfield <The C-Man>

 

 

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:57:16 SAST-2

From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>

Subject: SC - skirret, succession-houses and nettles

 

Dear all and sundry,

 

This is my first message to the list.  I am another Adamastorian

(Cape Town, South Africa), formerly of Lochac (Hi to any Stormholders

out there.

 

First, that skirret

is alive and well and can be got via some seed merchants.  Mine in

Australia was Phoenix Seeds in Tasmania, who also give

historical provenance, level of organic production of seed, and

culinary/medicinal uses.  Incidentally, I found a period poem -oh,

years ago - from Scotland about the glories of wild carrot.  

Something about honey underground between St. Andrew's Day and

Christmas.

 

<snip>

 

Cairistiona nic Bhraonnaguinn

 

Dr. Ian van Tets

Dept. of Zoology

University of Cape Town

Rondebosch 7701 RSA

 

 

Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:54:32 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other

 

Mark Harris wrote:

> Not for the swans, but wouldn't a turnip dish fit the idea of a "white" dish?

> Was there a mashed turnip dish similar to our mashed potatos?

 

I believe Digby has a recipe for mashed, buttered parsnips. They'd be

pretty white. Is there a specific chronological theme for this feast?

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:55:54 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: SC - Potatoes

 

This is a repost of this message.  I received a message from the system

that it did not get properly sent and am reposting.  My apologies if you

have previosly received this message.

 

>>- 1586: Sir Thomas Herriot introduced potatoes to England from

>> Colombia.

>Confirmation, anyone?

>Alasdair mac Iain

 

I don't have any direct reference, but this is possible if Herriot is

connected to Sir Francis Drake.  In February 1586, Drake tried to take

the Spanish treasure fleet at Cartagena, Colombia.  He missed the fleet,

but took the city and reprovisioned his ships.  It is believed by some

scholars that potatoes were among the supplies he seized.

 

Drake returned to England via Virginia (which may be when the potato was

introduced to North America).  There appears to be a scholarly dispute

whether potatoes were tasted in the English court following this voyage.

 

There is an English mathematician, Thomas Hariot, who in 1588 wrote A

Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land in Virginia describing

agriculture on Roanoke Island.  To my knowledge, there is no mention of

potatoes in Hariot's account.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:47 -0500 (EST)

From: "Jennifer L Rushman" <rushmanj at pilot.msu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Potato Notes.

 

   There are  many and varied kinds of Potatoes found in S. America.  They

come in a variety of colors (purple, golden yellow, red) on both the skin and

flesh! I believe their botanical origin is there.  These colored varieties

can be found in a few markets in the US, although they are not very common.  I

have seen purple in Detroit, MI at their Dealer's Market.  This origin may

shed more light as to who brought them to Europe (and when)   In addition the

sweet potato is not in the same family as the common white potato (Irish

potato) we all know.  The Irish potato is in the Solonaceae where the sweet

potato is in the Convolvulaceae (Morningglory) family.  The flowers of each are

quite different. Here's an expert from a Web page I found discussing

sweet/Irish Potatoes:

"Nature Bulletin No. 169-A

Forest Preserve District of Cook County, Ill.

Seymour Simon, President

Roberts Mann, Conservation Editor

 

****:THE SWEET POTATO

 

 

When the Spanish explorers first came to the New World they were

 

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:06:31 -0500 (EST)

From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>

Subject: SC - nightshades

 

Bogdan wrote:

> While I am not sure who brought them, I do know that they were not eaten

> for a while due to the pretty flowers.  Why, being in the nightshade

> family gave the tomato a late start too.  Nightshade was known, and the

> whole family was shunned.  Your random botanical fact for the day

 

Yes, tomatoes and potatoes are both Solanaceae, but so are eggplants,

which were widely used at least in Iberian cooking in the Middle Ages.

 

                                       mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib

                                                Stephen Bloch

                                          sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:13:21 -0600

From: mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com (Michael F. Gunter)

Subject: SC - Parsnip/Carrot tart

 

> Gunthar, I really enjoyed the tart of Carrot & Parsnip. My toddler

> daughter who doesn't eat vegetables (can spot one BEFORE tasting it

> usually) even ate some.  Would you mind sending me the recipe?

> Thanks, Clarissa

 

Okay, here's what I have.

 

It's the recipe that was posted by Aiofe from Martha Washington's Boke of Cookery. Although the book is dated 1749 the supposed cookbook she used to copy this is estimated to date from the mid-1500's.

 

To Make a Tart of Parsnips and Scyrrets:

 

Seeth yr roots in water & wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with

raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne

them & put suger to them, some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up and butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven,  & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure.

 

Redaction by Ld Ragnar Keitelsson

 

3/4 lb carrots

3/4 lb parsnips

2 c. wine

2 T. butter

1/2 cup sugar

1/2 cup wine and/or rosewater

2 eggs

Juice of 1 lemon (optional)

1 cup breadcrumbs

1 deepdish pie crust

egg for glaze

 

Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt water and the 2 cups wine until soft. Mash

roughly with 1 cup breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter (melted), sugar, lemon juice, and the rest of the wine/rosewater. A rough texture is fine. Put into a pre-glazed pie shell and glaze the top with the remaining egg, put into a pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 minutes.

 

We tested this recipe and found it a little too sweet and too "rosey" so we cut

down on the parsnips (this was also for economic reasons) to a 3/1 carrot/parsnip ratio, used half the rosewater, and cut down on the sugar. Also we found a good dry white wine worked better than the sweet dessert wine we first tried. We added a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg to the mix. Also we pureed the parsnip/carrot mixture instead of the rough texture. These came out more like a rough pumpkin pie texture than the original.

 

They were served cold at the feast and I actually got far more compliments

on them than I expected.

 

Gunthar

 

 

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:20:17 EST

From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Garden time

 

melc2newton at juno.com writes:

<< Is rhubarb medieval?  If so, how about some recipes?  I'm planning on

planting one of these things in my yard (mainly for wine, mmmmmmm...).

And would love to have proof of it's being "period."

Beatrix >>

 

According to Waverly Root in "Food," rhubarb was reached the Western world

from China in the Roman era.  Pliny mentions it in passing, as does

Dioscorides. Ibn-el-Beithar wrote in the 13th century C.E. that rhubarb was

common in Syria and had "like chard, it has fairly thick stalks."  This

suggests that he may have realized it as good to eat and which part was eaten.

 

However, Europeans imported the root only as a medicinal, having in true

barbaric European fashion eaten the leaves early on with disastrous results.

Leonhard Ruuwolf saw it growing in Lebanon circa 1573-1575 C.E. It was growing

in certain abbeys as a medicinal and planted by a certain Adolf Occo in 1570

bringing it into the lay garden.  Lyte mentions it as growing in English

herborist's gardens as a curiosity in 1578 C.E. Prosper Albinus grew it in the

botanical gardens in Padua at the same time, describing and illustrating it in

his herbal.

 

It is not until the 18th century that we see reference to it's use as food.

And even into the 19th century, it was grown not so much for the edible stalks

but rather, in the case of Rheum rhaponticum, for it's edible unopened flower

heads. R. rhaponticum curiously is the plant grown by Occo, Albinus Gerard

and Parkinson.

 

So apparently rhubarb was NOT grown as food during the Middle Ages although

it's roots were imported, or rarely grown, as medicine or botanical

curiosities with the exception of the more civilized Persian world where it's

culinary delights most probably were known.

 

That being the case, IMO, it deserves a place in the garden for it's medicinal

uses along side the many other herbs grown for this purpose.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:03:25 -0400

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: Re: SC - Celtic Feast Repost--Long

 

> Perhaps you could have included a turnip recipe of some sort.

>Mordonna

 

       Actually, we recently had the "Great Turnip Debate" on Tavern

Yard, and concluded that turnips weren't common that early in Britain.

They were brought over from the continent,  Waverly Root says "However,

it is on record that turnips were one of the principal foods of the

Flemish in the fifteenth century, and the first turnips to be sent to

England, in the first half of the fifteenth, came from Holland, with no

applause from such Britons as the one who wrote that 'the poor Dutch men,

like swine, digge up the rootes!'"

 

       Christianna

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:05:53 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - gingered butternut squash soup (Was: Italian Ren Feast)

 

> Seannach asked...

> >I just found a modern recipe for gingered butternut squash soup that has

> sweet potatoes in it, and am making it tonight to test out.....is there

> any way this could be period?<

 

The references I have available suggest that the sweet potato (Ipomoea

batatas) entered Italy about 1528 with haricot beans as part of a

presentation to Pope Clement VII from Cortez's expedition into Mexico.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:00 EST

From: Seton1355 at aol.com

Subject: SC - my medieval dinner party - long

 

Last night I had some mundane friends over and served them a medieval feast.

They really enjoyed it and were interested in the background of the recipes.

The evening went off well so I thought I'd post the recipes I used.

Phillipa

 

<snip of ***Winter Squash or Pumpkin Soup*** recipe>

 

<snip of ***Chicken Ambrogino With Dried Fruit*** recipe>

 

<snip of ***Green Poree for Days of Abstainence*** recipe>

 

***Mashed turnips and parsnips***

I didn't have a recipe, but I've eaten this at several feasts.

4 medium turnips

2 medium parsnips

grains of paradise

cubeds

margarine

 

peel the veggies and boil until soft, about 20 minutes

Drain

Put the veggies back in the pot, throw in the margarine and a pinch of ground

cubeds and grains of paradise.

mash well and be sure to blend everything

 

<snip of gingerbread recipe>

 

Anyway, this was  my menu...oh yes, I also made fried potatoes, no recipe.

Everyone liked everything, includeing my picky son!

IS,

Phillipa

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:28:56 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - My first time..

 

"Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote:

> I am

> looking for a reference to radishes being period.  I am currently preparing

> an art/sci entry and need to document the things I am using for my

> soltetie.  I have thus far been able to find turnips, and apples, and

> parsley, etc.  But radishes seem to elude me at every turn.  Could someone

> suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that

> mentions radishes?

 

They appear in 14th-century English recipes as rafens (from the Latin

raphanus), and as radich (es) . Check out Constance Hieatt's and Sharon

Butler's "Curye On Inglysch", published by the Oxford University Press

for the Early English Text Society in 1985; it contains an excellent

glossary of Middle English culinary terms, with an entry on rafens.

There may or may not be similar information somewhere in "Pleyn Delit"

by the same authors. (Not that Hieatt and Butler wrote the manuscripts

transcribed in either of the books, but they wrote more of "Pleyn Delit".)

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:58:41 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - My first time..

 

And it came to pass on 21 Apr 99,, that Amanda B. Humphrey wrote:

> You are all so helpful and always seem to know where to find things .  I

> am looking for a reference to radishes being period.

 

The _Arte Cisoria_ a 15th century Spanish carving manual, mentions

radishes in the chapter on carving vegetables.  It suggests that they be

sprinkled with salt to make the water come out of them, in order to

temper their sharpness and frigidity.

 

> Lady Bebhinn O'Siodhachain

> Shire of Starhaven

> Kingdom of Trimaris

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:52:24 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: SC - Period potato recipe

 

I was browsing through one of my Spanish cookbooks, looking for

something else entirely, when I came across a recipe for a citron-potato

conserve. In view of past discussions, I thought it might interest some

of the gentles here.

 

Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine

 

CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato

 

The citron must be mature, make it into four quarters, and remove the

sourness, and peel it, and then grate it, and cast it in to cook, and

having brought it to boil two or three times, set it aside, and let it cool,

and then wash it in tepid water, and cast it in a hair sieve, and wash it in

cold waters, until it is not bitter, and leave it until it drains very well.  The potatoes must be large, and washed, and cast them in to cook, and

when they are tender, peel them, and pass them through a clarifying

hair sieve, and then weigh it, and combine it with the citron, and mix it

all well, and have in a boiler clarified sugar, and instantly, [it being]

thick, cast it in, and set it to cook on a fire of coals, which should be

mild, and let it cook, and stir it constantly with one hand, so that it

doesn't stick, and when the bottom of the boiler becomes white, it is

cooked: cast in a little orange-blossom water, and a little musk, and set

it aside, and beat it a while until it cools, and then cast it in the box,

and have it five or six days in the sun, and then keep it.  The quantity

must be, to two pounds of sugar, one and a quarter of potato, and one

of citron.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:27:49 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato

 

And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain posted a recipe:

> >

> > Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine

> >

> > CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato

> How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato?

 

I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of potato

were rare enough to be of interest.  One possible clue is that the

mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler turns

white. If you were starting with white potato and citron and sugar, then I

assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look whiter.  If

you started with sweet potato in the mixture, could it change enough to

be called white?  I'm out of my field here -- I have never dabbled in

conserves or confectionary.  Maybe Mistress Alys Katherine would like

to add her two pence?

 

> Particularly with the sweetener and the Citron this sounds more like

> something for a sweet potato.

 

To our modern taste, yes, but there are many medieval recipes which

add sweetening to things we would find unusual.  There's a recipe for

sweetened cooked lettuce not far from the one I translated, and...

Hmmm... I was just flipping pages here.  Found another recipe, this one

for "Carne de Limon, y Batatas" -- flesh of lemon and sweet potatos.  In

modern Spanish at least, "patata" is the term for the white potato.

"Batata" or "patata dulce" is the sweet potato.  So unless you want to

argue scribal error (which is *always* possible), it looks to me as

though we have two potato recipes, one of each kind.  (Yes, Ras, I'll

post the other, but right now I have to go to work.)

 

I wish I'd noticed this before, but this source is not the one I'm primarily

working with, and it's over 400 pages, and as a diabetic, I don't pay

much attention to confectionary recipes.

 

Lady Brighid ni ChiarainDate: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:36:35 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots

 

I just looked at a site yesterday that offered seeds for heirloom carrots

in a variety of colors:  http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/

 

Wild carrots have white roots.  Le Menagier talks of carrots with red

roots. Gervase Markham mentions carrots of "sundry colours", and Gerard

describes a yellow carrot, and a blackish-red carrot.  Carrots colored pale

orange and dark red can be seen in oil paintins of the 16th century.

Epulario uses carrots to make a jelly a sanguine color.

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:11:39 -0600 (MDT)

From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>

Subject: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources

 

_To the Queen's Taste_ by Lorna J. Sass, has a few Elizabethan root veggie recipes:

Lumbardy Tartes - diced red beets, currants and cheese baked in a pie

Pudding in a Turnep Root - turnips stuffed w/ apples and currants

Quelquechose - parsnips and marigolds in orange juice.

 

I have made the quelquechose and it is pretty tasty.  It's like candied/sugared carrots in Peg Bracken's _I hate to cook_ book.

 

_Dining with William Shakespeare_ by Madge Lorwin white radishes (cooked w/ honey) boiled beets and fresh greens sallet stewed turnips on sippits raw turnip sallatl umbardy (beet) tartesoops of carrots (honeyied carrot soppets) raw white radishes w/ bread boiled carrot sallet Ariann

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:51 -0400 (EDT)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Re: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources

 

There's one near the beginning of _Forme_of_Cury_, called "Rapes in potage"

(turnips in stew). At the end it says that "pasturnakes" (parsnips and/or

carrots) can be substituted for the "rapus."

 

For either the "rapus" or the "pasturnakes," you clean and parboil the

roots, then cook them in broth with minced (and maybe parboiled) onions,

saffron, and salt. Sprinkle it with sweet spice powder (powdour douce) just

before serving. I cooked this for a feast last year, and for vegetarians

there was a separate batch made with almond milk and a bit of oil instead of

broth.

 

Later in the same book is a recipe for "Frytour of pasternakes" where pieces

of parsnips (or carrots?) are coated in an ale batter, fried, and served

with almond milk.

 

If I recall correctly, Platina has a recipe for "armored turnips," whose

cheese coating does little to stop hungry eaters. :-)

 

Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon

 

 

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:57:51 SAST-2

From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za>

Subject: Re: SC - It's Harvest Time

 

>There's a problem, though. I've searched through some of my historic cook books

>and I'm having difficulty finding recipes which use carrots (or parsnips for

>that matter), turnips, and beets.

 

I assume you have the old standbys?  Platina's Armoured turnips

(layered with cheese, in Cariadoc); there's also a _wonderful_ recipe

for turnips cooked in wine with chestnuts, I can't remember where

it's from offhand, but it's in Pleyn Delit.  (As you may guess, I'm

at work and have nary a book with me).  Using a semi-sweet white wine

takes away the slight bitterness of turnips _beautifully_.

 

Cariadoc also has a couple of broths with turnips, parsnips and

carrots, from Platina and Curye on Inglish.  Cariadoc's recipes are

listed at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html; mail

me if you don't have web access and I can send them to you.

 

Jehanne de Huguenin, called Melisant  *  Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town

(Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town)

 

 

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700

From: lilinah at grin.net

Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam

 

Lord Stefan li Rous wrote:

>I believe we determined earlier on this

>list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So

>I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement

>for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so

>I can't say how close they are in taste or texture.

 

There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at

least.

 

The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet

potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often

called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely

variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas.

According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the

Taino language from the Caribbean.

 

Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the

genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally

white fleshed with rough brown skins.

 

They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the

Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South

American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that

specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or

here in Northern California, at some supermarkets).

 

According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to

eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful,

and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little

gummy.

 

So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes

Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean,

vegetable.

 

Anahita

 

 

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:51 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - ramp

 

harper at idt.net writes:

<< who has always called the chive-like stuff in her lawn, "onion

grass") >>

 

Or it may be just wild chives. Chives readily reseed then selves.

 

Ramps more clearly resemble a small leek in structure with flattened leaves

instead of tubular ones. They do not resemble chives (perhaps garlic chives)

but are bigger than chives. They can grow to 12 inches high or more. Although

tasty they leave a foul odor on your breath and it exudes from your pores for

hours after eating them.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:40:45 GMT

From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - ramp

 

>     Rhiannon, to the best of my understanding ramps are different from the

>stuff growing in our yards around here, which I've always >heard called

>simply "wild onions."

 

ramp (ramp), n. Usu., ramps. a wild onion, Allium tricoccum, of the

amaryllis family, of E North America, having flat leaves and rounded

clusters of whitish flowers.

 

We have what is called "Onion Grass" here which is essentially wild onions,

and we have some ramps here too.  They're kinda garlicish-onioney in taste,

and hard to find around here because most people just mow them.

 

If it looks like a thinner scallion type onion, it is just that

a wild onion.

 

>I have the vague impression that ramps grow at higher

>elevations, possibly just because of the "Ramp Festival" I remember

> >hearing about up on a mountain in the Smokies somewhere.

 

Yep. I forget the town though.

 

>And yes, the >wild onions in our yards are indeed edible, but the >are so

>strongly >flavored that I wouldn't advise using them raw (In >salads,

>etc.). I think I'd use them in something that required long, >gentle

>cooking, perhaps a stew of some kind. They are one

>of the things I've been meaning to play with someday, and haven't >quite

>gotten around too yet........... ;-)

 

The wild onions go great in stocks.  The ones around here (and in my yard

:-) ) have a nice earthy-onion-garlic (but very different from a leek) taste

and since I only use the green most of the time since I like the little

buggers to grow as big as possible so I can use them in a soup or maybe

something I'm going to braise. I think I'm going to pot some and if I can

find some ramps, them too.

 

Ldy Diana, only a couple of hours north of Rhiannon, in Chattanooga

 

 

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:06:27 -0900

From: Kerri Canepa <kerric at pobox.alaska.net>

Subject: SC - Turnips - again!

 

Quite by accident, I got to play with turnips recently. Having had no luck

finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes (16th c ones seem to abound), I

decided to see what I could come up with.

 

A Disshe of Rape

 

Take rape and washe hem and scrape hem and cut hem small, put hem in good water

to boyle until it is enow, throw out the water and put hem in a pot of good

broth and put in salt and pepir and boyle again and serve forth.

 

3 fist sized turnips

water to cover

1 can beef broth

black pepper, ground

 

Wash, peel, and julienne turnips (1/4 inch). Cover with water and boil for 15

minutes. Drain. Put turnips with beef broth back in the pot and simmer until

liquid is nearly gone. Salt and pepper to taste.

 

The first try was with chicken broth and about 3 tbs of red wine. The wine gave

the turnips a rather odd brownish color and made them rather sharp tasting. The

second try with beef broth and pepper was definitely much better tasting.

 

The 1/4 inch julienne breaks down to smaller pieces and the turnips are very

soft by the time this is done. They could be mashed if desired but I rather

liked the smallish pieces. I put in quite a bit of pepper and it was quite

lively.

 

My husband the carnivore ate the first version (chicken broth and wine) and went

for more. Hm. I could be on to something here.

 

Kerri

Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

 

 

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:24:26 -0500 (EST)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Re: SC - Turnips - again!

 

Kerri/Cedrin Etainnighean wrote:

> ... no luck finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes ...

 

Try _Forme of Cury_ recipe 7:

 

Rapes in potage. Take rapus and make hem clene, and wassh hem clene; quarter

hem; perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see[th] hem;

mynce oynouns and cast [th]erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with

powdour douce. In the self wise make of pasturnakes and skyrwittes.

 

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:56:09 EST

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables

 

lilinah at grin.net writes:

> I must say that there have been multiple requests to NOT serve

> armoured turnips *again*.

 

Is this due to the number of times served? Or is it that people don't like

turnips? If the latter, I've had great success substituting parsnips. Before

anyone asks, I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being

substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. I have also

pleased the crowd with parsnip frittors, taking boiled parsnips sprinkling

with powder dulse and wrapping in eggroll wrappers and frying. Peas boiled in

almond milk are well liked in this area too. Just a few thoughts off the top

of my head.

 

Corwyn

 

 

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:08:54 -0500 (EST)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables

 

Corwyn said:

> ... I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being

>substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. ...

 

I can!

 

Rapes in potage (near the beginning of the _Forme of Cury_) says that one

can use the same recipe to prepare skirrets or pasternakes. Pasternakes are

parsnips and/or carrots.

 

I haven't tried armoring them, though. What's a good cheese to use on parsnips?

 

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark

 

 

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: RE: SC - New World Foods-list

 

Bear wrote:

>Yams are of African origin and were probably brought into Europe early in

>the 14th Century.

 

Yes, but what Americans call yams are of New World origin. African

yams are a whole different vegetable.

 

Both what Americans call Sweet Potatoes (with deep orangy yellow

flesh) *AND* what Americans call Yams (with pale yellow flesh) are

just two varieties of the same plant, both from the New World, with

flesh of differing shades of yellow and purplish, mostly smooth skin,

both Ipomoea batatas.

 

What are called yams that are from Africa is something one rarely

finds in America, and is a tuber with white flesh and rough cocoa

brown skin, and are from a number of different plants within genus

Dioscorea.

 

Anahita al-shazhiya

 

 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:57:23 -0500

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables

 

And it came to pass that RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:

> Has anyone ever seem any period evidence of preparing cooked

> radishes or for that matter, any period documentation of

> radishes being eaten at all in period?

 

_Arte Cisoria_, a 1423 carving manual, gives instructions for the proper

way to slice radishes.  It suggests that they should be sprinkled with

salt, in order to counteract the cold, watery quality of the vegetable.  It

does not indicate if the radishes are then to be eaten raw or cooked.

 

_Banquete de Nobles Caballeros_ (1530 health manual) has a short

chapter on radishes.  It is mostly on their medical properties.  Radish is

bad for the stomach.  Eaten before the meal, it can cause vomiting.  

However, it counteracts poison; a person who eats radishes will be

immune if he is stung by a scorpion that same day.  On a more culinary

note... the author comments that it is a customary food, especially

amongst students, and that it makes a good supper when eaten with

cheese. This is also enjoyed by the folk of the palace.  There is no

indication whether this is a cold supper, or if the radish is cooked with

the cheese, a la armored turnips.

 

De Nola (1529) has a recipe for sauce made from the root of "vexisco"

radish. It's ground up with toasted bread soaked in vinegar, then

cooked with pepper and honey.  The same preparation method is also

used for parsley leaves and for the leaves of clary sage.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:46:26 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables

 

Bronwynmgn at aol.com writes:

<< If I recall, the middle English word

for radishes is "rafens"; am I correct in this?

Brangwayna Morgan >>

 

rad*ish (noun)

 

[Middle English, alteration of Old English raedic, from Latin radic-, radix

root, radish -- more at ROOT]

 

SFAIK, rafens is equal to rasens is equal to raisins............

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:24:05 -0500

From: Ian Gourdon <agincort at raex.com>

Subject: SC - Re: radishes, cooked

 

> > Could someone

> > suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that

> > mentions radishes?

 

>Um, yes, in compost. There's also a sugar candy which uses radishes as a

>substitute for pepper, IIRC. Pynades or some such. But cooked in cream

>sauce in period, I'm not aware of anything like that. On the other hand,

>since period ended (roughly) some sixteen generations ago, it's quite

>possible what he says is correct, but they could still not be period.

>Adamantius

 

Pynade

Curye on Inglysch p. 79 (Diuersa Servicia no. 91)

For to make a pynade, tak hony and rotys of radich & grynd yt smal in

a morter, & do to + at hony a quantite of broun sugur. Tak powder of

peper & safroun & almandys, & do al togedere. Boyl hem long & held yt on

a wet bord & let yt kele, & messe yt & do yt forth.

- --

Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe, OP

Known as a forester of the Greenwood, Midrealm

 

 

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:03:25 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - period radishes

 

<< Doesn't  4 Seasons of the House of Cerruti say something about

radishes? >>

 

Yes, there is a page on "Rafani" with a picture and the abbreviated text

from the Tacuin sanitatis. In short: it is very warm and dry in nature,

dangerous in several respects ("Was sie erzeugen: schlechte S‰fte" 'what

they produce: bad humours'), to be eaten mostly by people with a cold

and humid complexion, in winter, and people living in northern, cold

countries.

 

I hope, everybody out there knows about her or his humoral complexion...

 

<< I am looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently

preparing (...) Could someone suggest a book or web site or just a

bibliography type reference that mentions radishes >>

 

There are many dietetic and medical works to mention "raphanus",

"radish", "Rettich" etc., for example:

- -- Giovanni Battista Fiera's "Coena. Delle virt? delle erbe e quella

parte dell'Arte medica che consiste nella regola del vitto" (1530; repr.

and ed. Mantova 1992, 79 and 133),

- -- Andrew Borde's 'Dyetary of Helth' (16th century, ed. Furnivall 1870,

p. 279),

- -- the 15th century cookbook and dietetic work of Meister Eberhard (on

my website; R96:2),

- -- Luis Lobera de Avila has a section about it (chapter XLII. of the

16th century German translation, I found recently!),

- -- etc.

 

There is also a 1530 dental handbook stating that eating "Rettich" is

dangerous for the teeth. And a 13th century horse book uses "retich" in

a medical recipe for sick horses ("Swelich ros ain siechs havpt hab ...

der nem retich, wol gederret ...", ed. Gerhard Eis, Meister Albrants

Ro?arzneibuch, 1939, 111:5). An appendix to a 1560 German cookery book

has a medical recipe for frozen feet to be cured using "Rettich" ("Wann

einem die f¸? erfroren sindt") ...

 

In addition, "radici" 'ravanelli' 'radishes' are mentioned in Giovanna

Frosini's "Il cibo e i signori. La mensa dei priori di Firenze nel

quinto decennio del sec. XIV" (Firenze 1993, 118), a lexicographical

book about the culinary vocabulary of an Italian 14th century manuscript

of expenses. I take it from this, that radishes were bought and eaten

around 1350 in Florenze.

 

The historical dictionaries of German have _many_ citations for

"Rettich".

 

Best,

Thomas

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:52:58 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

 

From: WyteRayven at aol.com

> My family has a very simple recipe that has been handed down from sometime

> before my Great-grandmother. She was born in England, and I am curious if

> there are period recipes similar to this. I will be checking the Florilegium,

> but I thought that I would send out a note as well.

>

> The recipe really has no measurements. Everything is done to taste. It is

> simply peel  boil some carrots, and some turnips (a little less turnips than

> carrots) and mash them together with lots of butter and salt and pepper.

>

> I used to hate it as a kid, but I love it now, though we tend to only have it

> during holidays.

>

> I think that both carrots and turnips are  period, but I don't know if the

> dish might be or not.

 

I don't know if the dish as you describe it is period, but --

 

Kenelm Digby (1669 C.E.) has a recipe for parsnips cooked this way. He

includes, IIRC, a bit of the cooking water so that when the butter melts

it remains emulsified, the whole forming a rather creamy puree...I

occasionally refer to this dish as parsnips Alfredo ;  ), but there's no

cheese. But you know... Hmmm....

 

Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval

European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer to a parsnip

than a modern carrot.

 

As for turnips, they appear somewhat more frequently. These would be the

real purple-and-white turnips, rather than the rutabaga or Swede, which

is sometimes referred to as a turnip.

 

I have a diner in my neighborhood that invariably makes a mashed mixture

of carrots and parsnips in the colder months, and the smart money is on

it rather than the overcooked broccoli, the mysteriously grey peas and

carrots, and the leathery corn.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:14:40 -0400

From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

 

> You know, I tried parsnips for the first time about a month ago, and I have

> to say that I don't think I care for them.

 

Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):

 

Slice 1 lb Parsnips about 1/4 inch thin slices and fry in a little oil and butter until very well browned. (dont be timid, more done is better than less done!)

 

Melt 1/2 stick butter and and 1/4 cup honey together and add 1 tsp

fresh chopped tarragon. 1 1/2 tsp dried (or more if the tarragon is old) Place

the parsnips in a bowl, and pour honey mixture on it. Toss and serve hot.

 

The key to this is the pan fry which caramelizes the parsnips and brings out

the natural sweetness which is otherwise held in the woody root cells.

 

You can do this recipe with Carrots, too, especially if they are those big

woody ones you get in high summer.

 

Brandu

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:46:43 -0500

From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net>

Subject: SC - Found it was:  Carrots and Turnips-Period?

 

I knew that turnips and carrots sounded familiar. So I dug through my

recipe sites and came up with this one;

 

Rapes in Potage

 

[or Carrots or Parsnips]

 

Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7)

 

Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem;

perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see+ hem;

mynce oynouns and cast + erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth

with powdour douce. In the self wise make of pastunakes and

skyrwittes.

 

Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots;

skirrets are, according to the OED, "a species of water parsnip,

formerly much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers." We have

never found them available in the market.

 

1 lb turnips, carrots, or parsnips

2 c chicken broth (canned, diluted)

1/2 lb onions

6 threads saffron

3/4 t salt

powder douce: 2 t sugar, 3/8 t cinnamon, 3/8 t ginger

 

Wash, peel, and quarter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are

large), cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes. If you

are using carrots or parsnips, clean them and cut them up into large

bite-sized pieces and parboil 10 minutes. Mince onions. Drain turnips,

carrots, or parsnips, and put them with onions and chicken broth in a

pot and bring to a boil. Crush saffron into about 1 t of the broth and

add seasonings to potage. Cook another 15-20 minutes, until turnips or

carrots are soft to a fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.

Melbrigda

There was som deceptyon or frawdulent

induction that hath made her to condescende

therunto

 

 

Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:50:05 +1000

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

 

Jeff Gedney wrote:

> Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):

 

<snipped recipe for fried parsnips caramelized with honey & suggestion of doing this with carrots>

 

I am sure that I have seen a honeyed carrot recipe in Platina, but do not have that source to hand.

 

At the end of my posting I have reprinted another's posted recipe for making 'a Tart of Parsneps and Scyrrets'.

 

I have found a honeyed turnip & carrot recipe in Le Menagier de Paris Translated by Janet Hinson.  Obtained from web site:

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html

Under the section titled 'Other Odds & Ends', there is a recipe to make "compote". The result seems to be a preserve, but it does not specify whether you serve it hold or cold & it would be very nice served hot ;-)

 

It starts with a recipe for making walnuts essentially preserved in honey and

ultimately left "in an earthenware pot or cask, and stir once a week".  Then it goes on to give recipes for preparing preserved turnips, carrots, choke-pears & gourds. The way I have read the sequential  recipes is that each of the preserves are prepared separately and are _kept_ separately.  Ie, it does not appear from the translated text that each additional preserve is added to the one before.  It seems merely a series of individual recipes, particularly since it later goes on to describe a recipe where the preserves can be used, but seems more to be referring to just the walnut preserve rather than the other recipes - I would like other's feedback here on what they think ;-)

 

Anyway, included in the recipes is the following for turnips & carrots, when it

states "take honey & do the same as the walnuts", I have reprinted the appropriate text from the walnut recipe below the other 2:

 

Take, around All Saints Day (November 1), large turnips, and peel them and chop them in quarters, and then put on to cook in water: and when they are partially cooked, take them out and put them in cold water to make them tender, and then let them drain; and take honey and do the same as with the walnuts, and be careful not to over-cook your turnips.  Item, on All Saints, take carrots as many as you wish, and when they are well cleaned and chopped in pieces, cook them like the turnips.

(Carrots are red roots which are sold at the Halles in baskets, and each basket costs one blanc.) . . .Item, when gourds are in season, take those which are neither too hard nor too tender, and peel them and remove the seeds and cut into quarters, and do the same to them as to the turnips.

 

Re details for preserving with honey from walnut recipe:

"and then put them [walnuts] on to boil in sweet water and let them boil just for the length of time it takes to say a Miserere, and until you see that there are none which are too hard or too soft. Then empty the water, and put them to drain on a screen, and then boil a sixth of honey or as much as they need to be all covered, and the honey should be strained and skimmed: and when it is cooled down to just warm, add your walnuts and leave them two or three days, and then put them to drain, and take as much of your honey as they can soak in, and put the honey on the fire and make it come to a good boil and skim it, and take it off the fire: and put in each hole in your walnuts a clove in one side and a little snip of ginger in the other, and then put them in the honey when it is lukewarm. And stir it two or three times a day, and at the end of three days take them out: and gather up the honey, and if there is not enough, add to it and boil and skim and boil, then put your walnuts in it; and thus each week for a month. And then leave them in an earthenware pot or a cask, and stir once a week."

 

TO MAKE A TART OF PARSNEPS AND SCYRRETS

The redaction (Redacted By Lord Ragnar Keitelson, Prepared by he and his Lady Wife Rowan of Ashebrook):

From Martha Washingtonís Booke of Cookery p749, containing recipes from at least the previous century.:  ìSeeth yr roots in water& wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne them & put suger to them * some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up & butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven, & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure. ì

 

We chose carrots for flavor and color, Scyrets (a white root resembling the shape and flavor of carrots) not being available.  Besides, that makes the tarte red and white!

 

3/4 lb. carrots

3/4 lb. parsnips

2 c. wine

2 tbsp. butter

1/2 c. sugar

1/2 c. wine and/or rosewater

2 eggs

1 c. breadcrumbs

1 deep dish pie crust

egg for glaze

Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt H2O and the 2 c. wine until soft. Mash roughly with 1 c. breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter, melted, sugar, and rest of wine/rosewater. A rough texture here is fine. Put into pre-glazed pie crust (brush some of the egg across the bottom to prevent soggy crust), glaze top with remaining egg, put in pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 mins.

 

Lorix

 

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:05:21 -0400

From: Jennifer L Sweet <minxkitten at juno.com>

Subject: SC - Roots and war

 

        okay, now this may or may not be of use.  concerning the storage of root

vegetables, the book Stocking Up, by Rodale Press, copyright date 1977

states: By alternating layers of dried leaves with layers of produce in

wooden boxes, they have firm and edible potatoes, apples, rutabagas,

carrots, and beets for as long as 50 weeks after they stored them...

Pails, baskets and watertight barrels are used just as boxes

are...finishing with 2 inches or more of packing at the top.

        other packing materials recommended are hay, straw, sphagnum moss, or

damp crumpled burlap.  they actually mention old clean stockings for

onions and garlic... stuff one into the toe, tie a knot, stuff another in

behind the first, tie a knot, etc.

 

Branwen

 

 

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:40:57 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - CAWL CENNIN CYMRAEG - WELSH LAMB STEW WITH LEEKS

 

Adamantius wrote:

>I believe swedes/rutabagas existed in Europe in period, but I could be

>remembering a non-fact. I have a vague recollection of them being

>introduced to places like Britain somewhat after period, but I believe

>they are indigenous to Eurasia and as old as other root vegetables.

 

While the origins of the swede/rutabaga are somewhat shrouded in mystery,

most sources agree that they originate in Central Europe, probably in the

late medieval period, and reached England and France via Sweden in late 17th

or early 18th century, probably mostly as a fodder plant. IIRC, they weren¥t

grown for human consumption in Britain until the latter part of the 18th

century but I may be wrong - I don¥t have the source for this at hand just

now. (The name rutabaga is also of Swedish origin, as they were widely grown

in Sweden early on.)

 

Swedes/rutabagas were brought to Iceland in the 18th century and became

quite popular, as they are one of the easiest vegetables to grow in the

harsh conditions here. They were one of the three vegetables of my childhood

(the others were potatoes and white cabbage). The Icelandic Rutabaga

Farmer’s Association is trying to advertise them as "the lemon of the

North", Yeah, right.

 

Nanna

 

 

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:09:08 EDT

From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Protectorate Feast 3 - Menu

 

ddfr at best.com writes:

> I'm not familiar with the recipe. Is it clear that it was written pre-1600,

and is it clear

> that it is sweet potatoes? While I know of references to eating potatoes

just pre-

> 1600, I didn't know of any actual recipes that early--but then, there's a

lot I don't

> know about late period cooking.

 

In the preface to the book, there is mention of an inscription in the front

of Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book which says: Lady Elinor Fettiplace, 1604.

Fettiplace offers three recipes with sweet potatoes.

 

Prior to this recipe, Hilary Spurling states: "If almond soup goes back to

medieval times, the buttered potato roots given below  were still, in the

late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries, a brand new vegetable from

the New World. Columbus had brought sweet potatoes back from America (our

ordinary modern potato did not reach the English markets until the 1640's)

and by Lady Fettiplace's day they had become a regular autumn import from

Spain, highly popular on account of their supposed aphrodesiac properties."

 

On pg 193: To Butter Potato Roots

"Take the roots & boile them in water, till they bee verie soft, then peele

them & slice them , then put some rosewater to them & sugar & the pill of an

orenge, & some of the iuice of the orenge, so let them boile a good while,

then put some butter to them & when it is melted, serve them. This way you

may bake them, but put them unboiled into the paste."

 

On pg 194, To Preserve Potatoes

"Boile your roots in faire water untill they bee somewhat tender then pill of

the skinne, then make your syrupe, weying to every pound of roots a pound of

sugar and a quarter of a pinte of faire water, & as much of rose water, & the

iuice of three or fowre orenges, then boile the syrupe & scum it, then cut

your roots in the middle & put them into the syrup, & boole them till they

bee throughlie soaked in the syrupe, before you take it from the fire, put in

a little musk and amber greece."

 

In Service,

 

Ilaria

 

 

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:27:21 -0500

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: Parsnips (was Re: SC - Sauce for Sausage?)

 

Jadwiga requested a recipe for parsnips, preferably buttered and

spiced. How about batter-fried and spiced?

 

There's a recipe in Scully's _The Neapolitan Recipe Collection_,

which is 15th century Italian.  (The translation is his.)

 

170. Parsnips

 

Clean big ones well and remove the woody part in the middle, and

boil them; when they are cooked, flour them and fry them in good

oil -- but before that, dry them well on a small board; then, to make

them better, get a bowl of flour tempered with water, add sugar,  

cinnamon, saffron and rosewater, coat the parsnips with this

mixture and put them in the pan with hot oil; then put spices on top

of them and serve them properly seasoned like that.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:27:08 -0800

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

Subject: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes

 

I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night.  Bearing in

mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval

spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval

cooking italian got me.

 

>From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi  P. 139

To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk

Take white pasternakes and put to cook.  and when they are well cooked

remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them.  And when they are

blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese.  And if it [troubles a

heart???] turn out [the one?].  and then press them, take a good martar and

pound them well, and put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of

that which you like, and cook them in the way of courds.  And when they give

to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest broth you

have and mix it in.  And with it cheese deliver  have sliced,  and if you

want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk instead of almonds.

 

 

Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &

then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it

may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it

was worth having translated properly by someone else :->

 

Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...

Eden Rain

raghead at liripipe.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:25:13 -0800

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - buttered parsnips/period parsnip recipes

 

hey all from Anne-Marie

here is the Madrone Culinary Guilds version for Digby's (not medieval, but dang

tasty :)) parsnips. Some food weenies get freaked out becuase they REALLY look

like mashed potatoes but they REALLY dont taste like them :). Personally, I

love 'em.

 

all rights reserved, no publication without permission, enjoy! we're hoping to

include this in our Feudal Gourmet pamphlet on Elizabethan food (when it

migrates moer to the top of me pending projects pile). if you end up using it,

please let me know how it came out and how you liked it. Feedback is useful

:).

 

have fun!

 

- -AM

****************************************************************************

 

Dressed Parsnips

A very simple dish of parsnips and milk. They look suprisingly like mashed

potatoes, and have a very delicate, nutty flavor, not unlike squash or sweet

potatoes. They are exceedingly rich, and a little goes a long way. Digby is

right, they "have a natural Sweetness that is beyond Sugar, and will be

unctuous, so as not to need Butter".  The only drawback is that it takes a very

long time with constant stirring to get the parsnips to absorb all that milk,

but the time is worth it!

 

To Dress Parsnips

Scrape well three or four good large roots, cleaning well their outside, and

cutting off as much of the little end as is fibrous, and of the great end as is

hard. put them into a posnet or Pot with about a quart of milk upon them or as

much as will cover them in boiling; which do moderately, till you find they are

very tender. This may be in an hour and half, sooner or later, as the roots are

of a good kind. Then take them out and scrape all the outside into a pulp, like

the pulp of rosted Apples, which put in in a dish up on a Chafing -dish of

Coals, with a little of the ilk you boiled them in, put to them; not so much as

to drown them, but only to imbibe them: and then with stewing, the pulp will

imbibe all that Milk. When you see it is drunk in, put to the pulp a little

more of the same Milk, and stew that, till it be drunk in. Continue doing thus

till it hath drunk in a good quantity of the Milk, and is well swelled with it,

and will take in no more, which may be in a good half hour. Eat them so,

without Sugar or Butter; for they will have a natural Sweetness that is beyond

Sugar, and will be unctuous, so as not to need Butter.

 

Our Version: (Serves 10)

2 lb parsnips

6 cups milk

 

Scrub the parsnips and take off the tough big end and the fibrous little end.

Remove any hairs if needed. Add milk to cover and simmer gently, stirring

occasionally. Cook until soft, about 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. Remove the milk,

and set aside for later. Let parsnips cool. Remove outer peel and fibrous core

by squishing with your hand and pulling out tough bits. Put parsnips back in

the pot, and mash. Add about 1/4 cup of the milk and stir vigorously over

medium-low heat until milk is all absorbed and the nips are the consistency of

mashed potatoes. Add 1/4 cup more milk and keep stirring until that is

absorbed. Pick out any fibrous bits that won't mash up nicely. Keep repeating

this till all the milk is gone, and the parsnips are an even glop, as wet as

scrambled eggs.  Dish up and serve warm.

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:02:41 -0500

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: Re: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes

 

And it came to pass on 11 Dec 00, , that E. Rain wrote:

> I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night.  Bearing in

> mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval

> spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval

> cooking italian got me.

 

Well, I have never studied Catalan (modern or medieval), but

sometimes I can stumble through a recipe, with the help of a

dictionary and knowledge of Spanish and French.  I *think* I can

shed some light on the gaps in your very creditable translation.

> >From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi  P. 139

> To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk

> Take white pasternakes and put to cook.  and when they are well cooked

> remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them.  

 

It think it is "peel".  Literally, "parar" means "to prepare", but in

Spanish, it is often used to mean "peel".

 

> And when they are

> blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese.  

 

Press them between 2 chopping-blocks (this instruction appears a

*lot* in Nola, whenever moisture has to be squeezed out of a food)

with which you make cheese.

 

> And if it [troubles a

> heart???] turn out [the one?].

 

I think this is an instruction to remove the woody core, if you find

one.

 

> and then press them, take a good martar and pound them well, and

> put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of that which

> you like, and cook them in the way of courds.  And when they give

> to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest

> broth you have and mix it in.  And with it cheese deliver  have

> sliced,  

 

And put in cheese ___ sliced (and grated).

 

> and if you want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk

> instead of almonds.

>

> Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &

> then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it

> may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it

> was worth having translated properly by someone else :->

 

You've got the essence of it, as far as I can tell.  The parsnips are

parboiled, peeled and mashed, then cooked with mutton broth and

bacon. Add the end, add almond milk and grated cheese.  So...

do we have a Catalan translator in the house?

 

> Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:06:21 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook swedes and turnips

 

Hrolf Douglasson wrote:

>>""> Umm,  I have no idea if someone earlier has mentioned this.  But

>>swedes are turnips, usually the type that are white with purple bits.

> The white small things with purple tops are TURNIPS in the UK.

> Swedes are larger About the size of a cob loaf to the size of a football and

> are in no way related to potatos. They are a member of the mangle wurzel

> family and were introduced to the UK in the early middle ages.  After the

> normans but berfore the tudors.

 

Swedes are the yellow turnips known as turnips in _Scotland_, although

not in the rest of the UK, while commonly called either turnips/yellow

turnips or rutabaga in the U.S. (I believe it was an American who asked

about this).

 

Adamantius

 

 

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook

Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:14:56 -0500

 

I'm curious as to the source which specifies the rutabaga as a 19th Century

hybrid.  An Oregon State University fact sheet provides the information that

the rutabaga is mentioned in Bauhin's Prodromus and Morrison's plant

catalog, both 17th Century publications.

 

The Bauhin reference is most probably Caspar (Gaspard) Bauhin's Pinax or

Theatri Botanici of 1623.

 

Bear

 

> > >b.) swedes

> >

> >       Swedes are rutabegas. They were developed in Sweden in the

> > nineteenth century, and are related to turnips.  They are *definately

> > not* period for Vikings.

 

 

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:08:12 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost: Black Radishes, Carrots

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> Daniel Myers wrote:

>> Pasternak can mean both carrot and parsnip - and as others have said,

>> they probably used whichever they had on hand.  I can usually get

>> parsnips here, so I usually use both (adds variety).

> I believe you both, this is what i have heard. But where does this

> information come from? Where does it say so explicitly?

> Anahita

 

Try Pliny, "There is one kind of wild pastinaca which grows spontaneously;

by the Greeks it is known as staphylinos. Another kind is grown either from

the root transplanted or else from seed, the ground being dug to a very

considerable depth for the purpose. It begins to be fit for eating at the

end of the year, but it is still better at the end of two; even then,

however, it preserves its strong pungent flavour, which it is found

impossible to get rid of."

 

Athenaeus, and possibly Apicius, if De Re Coquinaria truly is Apicius' work,

first used carota to describe the carrot. To Athenaeus, parsnips and carrots

were the same vegetable, while one of Apicius' recipes is for Caroetas et

Pastinacae, providing a differentiation between the two vegetables.  In the

2nd Century, Galen established the differentiation between the parsnip and

the carrot by naming the carrot Daucus pastinaca.

 

European carrots were white until about the 13th Century and red and yellow

carrots were only introduced into England by Flemish refugees in the 14th

Century.  So for the Forme of Cury, pasternak might mean either the white

carrot or the parsnip.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:06:56 -0500

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

--On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter

<countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:

 

> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional

> bar food in France and the continent.

> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.

> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was

> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a

> tavern or inn one of these days.

 

I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.

 

Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the

stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I

can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other

things in the third course.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:10:32 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

There are recipes that mention ground radishes.

 

From the FoC--

XXXII - For To Make A Pynade Or Pyvade. Take Hony and Rotys of Radich

and grynd yt smal in a morter and do yt thereto that hony a quantite of

broun sugur and do thereto. Tak Powder of Peper and Safroun and Almandys

and do al togedere boyl hem long and hold yt in a wet bord and let yt

kele and messe yt and do yt forth.

 

Johnnae

> --On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter

> <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional

>> bar food in France and the continent.

>> 

>> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.

>> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was

>> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a

>> tavern or inn one of these days.

> I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.

> Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the

> stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I

> can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other

> things in the third course.

> toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:41:22 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The recipe is for Erdapfel, which modernly refers to the white potato,

Solanum tuberosum.  At the time Rumpolt was writing, Erdapfel very probably

was being used to refer to a round gourd, squash or melon.  Thomas Gloning

pointed me toward some of the reference to this particular linguistic usage,

but I haven't chased down the complete discussion of the usage.

 

There is definitely a recipe for potatoes in correspondence between Wilhelm

IV von Hessen and Christian I von Sachsen in 1591.  As translated by Thomas

Gloning, it reads, "We also send to your Highness among other things a plant

that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (.) Below, at the

root, there hand many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good

to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell

(peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the

point in butter."

 

While people experimented with white potatoes in the late 16th Century, they

are likely specimens from various botanical gardens.  John Gerard recieved

his first specimen in 1586 from undetermined sources (possibly Francis

Drake's raid on Cartegena).  Carolus Clusius got his in 1587 from Italy via

the Pontifical Legation in Belgium.  Rumpolt may have access to potatoes

through the Hapsburg botanical gardens in Vienna, but there were certainly

no potatoes there when Clusius was in charge of the garden.

 

I think it can be safely argued that any recipe before 1590 is probably not

for white potatoes.  And the evidence tends to show that general acceptance

and use was over a century later.

 

Bear

 

> David Malddon / Eduardo:

>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing

>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581

>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.

> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several

> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt, but I

> haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

> E.

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> David Malddon / Eduardo:

>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing

>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581

>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.

> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several

> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt,  

> but I haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

 

http://aeiou.iicm.tugraz.at/aeiou.encyclop.e/

e712473.htm;internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en

Two potato tubers were sent to C. Clusius as a curiosity for the  

Vienna Botanical Gardens in 1588.

 

In modern Austria "Erdapfel" or "earth apple" means potato. Rumpolt  

has an "erdtepffel" recipe #37 in the "Zugemu?" section, in between  

pear and apple recipes.   No one is certain what fruit or vegetable  

is meant, but it probably does not mean white potato.

 

Very similar to recipes given for apples. It could be like  

applesauce, or like mashed potatoes, but is not a soup recipe.

 

The recipe is a little obscure.. press the stuff thru a hair cloth  

and THEN cut to pieces and fry in bacon?

 

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_veggie1.htm

 

37. Earth apples. Peel and cut them small/ soak (simmer) them in water/ and

press it well out through a hair (fine) cloth/ chop them small/ and fry them in bacon/ that is cut small/ take a little milk thereunder/ and let it simmer  

therewith/ so it is good and welltasting.

 

Gwen Cat comments that it might be a patty pan squash.  I think an  

Old world gourd is more likely than an New World squash, or something  

else altogether, but I haven't seen anything convincing one way or  

another.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:41:22 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The recipe is for Erdapfel, which modernly refers to the white potato,

Solanum tuberosum.  At the time Rumpolt was writing, Erdapfel very probably

was being used to refer to a round gourd, squash or melon.  Thomas Gloning

pointed me toward some of the reference to this particular linguistic usage,

but I haven't chased down the complete discussion of the usage.

 

There is definitely a recipe for potatoes in correspondence between Wilhelm

IV von Hessen and Christian I von Sachsen in 1591.  As translated by Thomas

Gloning, it reads, "We also send to your Highness among other things a plant

that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (.) Below, at the

root, there hand many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good

to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell

(peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the

point in butter."

 

While people experimented with white potatoes in the late 16th Century, they

are likely specimens from various botanical gardens.  John Gerard recieved

his first specimen in 1586 from undetermined sources (possibly Francis

Drake's raid on Cartegena).  Carolus Clusius got his in 1587 from Italy via

the Pontifical Legation in Belgium.  Rumpolt may have access to potatoes

through the Hapsburg botanical gardens in Vienna, but there were certainly

no potatoes there when Clusius was in charge of the garden.

 

I think it can be safely argued that any recipe before 1590 is probably not

for white potatoes.  And the evidence tends to show that general acceptance

and use was over a century later.

 

Bear

 

> David Malddon / Eduardo:

>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing

>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581

>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.

> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several

> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt, but I

> haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

> E.

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> David Malddon / Eduardo:

>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing

>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581

>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.

> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several

> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt,  

> but I haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

 

http://aeiou.iicm.tugraz.at/aeiou.encyclop.e/

e712473.htm;internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en

Two potato tubers were sent to C. Clusius as a curiosity for the  

Vienna Botanical Gardens in 1588.

 

In modern Austria "Erdapfel" or "earth apple" means potato.  Rumpolt  

has an "erdtepffel" recipe #37 in the "Zugemu?" section, in between  

pear and apple recipes.   No one is certain what fruit or vegetable  

is meant, but it probably does not mean white potato.

 

Very similar to recipes given for apples. It could be like  

applesauce, or like mashed potatoes, but is not a soup recipe.

 

The recipe is a little obscure.. press the stuff thru a hair cloth  

and THEN cut to pieces and fry in bacon?

 

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_veggie1.htm

 

37. Earth apples. Peel and cut them small/ soak (simmer) them in water/ and

press it well out through a hair (fine) cloth/ chop them small/ and fry them in bacon/ that is cut small/ take a little milk thereunder/ and let it simmer  

therewith/ so it is good and welltasting.

 

Gwen Cat comments that it might be a patty pan squash.  I think an  

Old world gourd is more likely than an New World squash, or something  

else altogether, but I haven't seen anything convincing one way or  

another.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:30:10 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I have seen one reference (by a German linguist) where "erdapfel" is

directly related to "pepomellone" (hope I spelled that right) in Platina.

That would relate "erdapfel" to globular gourds or melons.  The location in

Rumpolt suggests that this might be a melon.

 

By Clusius's own statement, he received the potatoes in 1587 and a drawing

in 1588.  To quote his herbal of 1601,

"I received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus

de Sivry, Dn. De Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of

the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,

Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587; and in the following year, a

drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the

preceding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in

Belgium. "

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:34:24 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I believe that should be Dauphin (or possibly, Dauphine, the wife).

 

I have no problem with the Dauphin eating potatoes prepared in the manner of

truffles, but I would really like to know which Dauphin and I would like to

know how he had his truffles prepared.

 

The guy in England is probably John Gerard.  He received his potatoes in

1586.  Carolus Clusius received his samples in 1587.  The earliest record of

potatoes in use in Europe (as poverty fare) is 1573 in Spain (where they may

have been imported from the New World), but they were likely not in major

cultivation for they don't show up in Clusius's study of the plants of Spain

in 1576.  To my knowledge, leaving aside the questionable recipe in Rumpolt,

all reports of eating white potatoes are after 1590.

 

The idea that they regularly eaten in Germany is probably from Clusius's

herbal, "The Italians do not know where they were first produced.  Certain it

is, however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from  America. It

is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in the

Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked

with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots,

they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of

the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens

in Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful."

 

Note that this was published in 1601 and does not give a clear indication of

when they became common in Germany.  The evidence suggests that white

potatoes were not in general use or cultivation in Europe for most of the

16th Century.  If the botanical specimens didn't reach Central Europe until

the mid-1580s, I seriously doubt that they were in common use at that  

time.

 

Based on the evidence, I think one can say that in general, potatoes were

not eaten in Europe and that they weren't common in Germany much before

1590.  Italy is a slightly different matter, but I don't think you can place

potatoes (as botanical to the Vatican) before 1547.  I would think 40 to 50

years to move them from Rome north to Southern Germany would be about right.

One needs to consider temporal as well as spacial precision.

 

I would like to see a copy of this paper.

 

Bear

 

> I have read a research paper showing that the Daphne of France ate Potatoes

> prepared just like Truffles and in Germany they were eaten regularly.  But

> in England only one guy had them in his hothouse and they were considered

> odd.. all of this is in the 16th century.  My point being to say in general

> a food was not eaten in our time period is a misnomer and should be

> carefully researched for differences in regional preferences.

> Jana

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:30:10 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I have seen one reference (by a German linguist) where "erdapfel" is

directly related to "pepomellone" (hope I spelled that right) in Platina.

That would relate "erdapfel" to globular gourds or melons.  The location in

Rumpolt suggests that this might be a melon.

 

By Clusius's own statement, he received the potatoes in 1587 and a drawing

in 1588.  To quote his herbal of 1601,

"I received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus

de Sivry, Dn. De Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of

the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,

Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587; and in the following year, a

drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the

preceding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in

Belgium. "

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:34:24 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I believe that should be Dauphin (or possibly, Dauphine, the wife).

 

I have no problem with the Dauphin eating potatoes prepared in the manner of

truffles, but I would really like to know which Dauphin and I would like to

know how he had his truffles prepared.

 

The guy in England is probably John Gerard.  He received his potatoes in

1586. Carolus Clusius received his samples in 1587.  The earliest record of

potatoes in use in Europe (as poverty fare) is 1573 in Spain (where they may

have been imported from the New World), but they were likely not in major

cultivation for they don't show up in Clusius's study of the plants of Spain

in 1576.  To my knowledge, leaving aside the questionable recipe in Rumpolt,

all reports of eating white potatoes are after 1590.

 

The idea that they regularly eaten in Germany is probably from Clusius's

herbal, "The Italians do not know where they were first produced.  Certain it

is, however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from  America. It

is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in the

Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked

with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots,

they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of

the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens

in Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful."

 

Note that this was published in 1601 and does not give a clear indication of

when they became common in Germany.  The evidence suggests that white

potatoes were not in general use or cultivation in Europe for most of the

16th Century.  If the botanical specimens didn't reach Central Europe until

the mid-1580s, I seriously doubt that they were in common use at that  

time.

 

Based on the evidence, I think one can say that in general, potatoes were

not eaten in Europe and that they weren't common in Germany much before

1590. Italy is a slightly different matter, but I don't think you can place

potatoes (as botanical to the Vatican) before 1547.  I would think 40 to 50

years to move them from Rome north to Southern Germany would be about right.

One needs to consider temporal as well as spacial precision.

 

I would like to see a copy of this paper.

 

Bear

 

> I have read a research paper showing that the Daphne of France ate Potatoes

> prepared just like Truffles and in Germany they were eaten regularly.  But

> in England only one guy had them in his hothouse and they were considered

> odd.. all of this is in the 16th century.  My point being to say in general

> a food was not eaten in our time period is a misnomer and should be

> carefully researched for differences in regional preferences.

> Jana

 

 

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:49:06 -0700

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Substitute for Potatoes?

 

On Aug 23, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

<<< Greetings from Solveig! Potatoes are from Peru. However, there are

a number of old world tubers available such as yams Dioscorea

species which originated in West Africa and Asia.

 

Solveig Throndardottir

Amateur Scholar

 

Yes, and I fully intend to use yams in my Period cooking. >>>

 

Off hand, I can't think of any recipes in either the period European

or Islamic corpus that use them. I don't even know if there is any

evidence that they were used in the  parts of the world from which we

have surviving cookbooks.

 

You might want to check the Rehla of Ibn Battuta for references--he

visited both east and west Africa in the 14th century.

--

David/Cariadoc

www.daviddfriedman.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:38 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

 

<<< Off hand, I can't think of any recipes in either the period European or Islamic corpus that use them. I don't even know if there is any evidence that they were used in the  parts of the world from which we have surviving cookbooks.

 

You might want to check the Rehla of Ibn Battuta for references--he visited both east and west Africa in the 14th century.

--

David/Cariadoc >>>

 

Columbus's journal of the first voyage (1492-93) references yams several

times, but I see no evidence of yams being prepared in Europe.  I don't

recall any references in Pliny or other authors that would suggest yams were

well known in Antiquity.  Since the term, yam, appears to be derived from a

West African language, it's likely that yams came to the attention of Europe

as the Portuguese expanded along the West African coast and probably were

not incorporated into the European diet.

 

I suspect, but have not verified, that edible yams may not grow well in

Europe.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:52:05 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

 

Terry Decker wrote:

<<< Columbus's journal of the first voyage (1492-93) references yams

several times, but I see no evidence of yams being prepared in

Europe. I don't recall any references in Pliny or other authors that

would suggest yams were well known in Antiquity.  Since the term, yam,

appears to be derived from a West African language, it's likely that

yams came to the attention of Europe as the Portuguese expanded along

the West African coast and probably were not incorporated into the

European diet.

I suspect, but have not verified, that edible yams may not grow well

in Europe.

Bear >>>

 

Yams do show up in West African Food in the Middle Ages by Lewicki. (nw

edition CUP, 2009).

And one of the sources given is Ibn Battuta who ate them in Mali. See

pages 49-52.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:14:11 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Substitute for Potatoes?

 

Judith wrote:

On Aug 23, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

<<< Greetings from Solveig! Potatoes are from Peru. However, there are a

number of old world tubers available such as yams Dioscorea species

which originated in West Africa and Asia. >>>

 

Yes, and I fully intend to use yams in my Period cooking.

------------

 

Well, that depends on what you mean by yams...

 

Anyway, in the US there's a tuber called "yam" that isn't. It is a

variety of sweet potato. I get them confused, one has brownish skin

and a yellow interior (i think that's what gets commonly called a yam

in the US) and the other has purplish skin and an orange interior.

The one with the yellow flesh is starchier than the orange, but

they're both New World, known in England and Spain in the 16th c.,

but i'm not sure if they were known anywhere else. Anyway, both are

Ipomoea batatas, NOT really yams.

 

The *true* yam is African - our word comes from Spanish nyame', which

in turn is derived from the original Wolof word. It is a starchy

tuber not in the slightest like the sweet potato and its close

sibling the not really "yam". These are in the genus Dioscorea. They

are often being quite white inside - or pink or purple, as is the

Filipino ube' - i used to get ube ice cream when i lived in LA - and

they can be up to 7 feet long and weigh up to 150 pounds! African

yams apparently were not known in Europe until the 16th c. and were

not traded with or grown in North African or Southwest Asian Muslim

countries, as far as i can tell.

 

I ate several different varieties of Dioscorea, white or

greyish-white tubers called "ubi", when i lived in Indonesia.

 

The New World tuber cassava, often known as yucca or manioc (Manihot

esculenta) is also eaten in Indonesia, where the leaves were called

singkong and the root was called ubi kayu. But it wouldn't be known

in the SCA-period Near or Middle East.

 

On the other hand, Colocasia shows up in quite a few SCA period

Arabic language cookbooks, where they may be called qulqas or kilkas.

It is often known as taro, a starchy tuber, but does not add the

qualities of a modern potato to a dish. I can get them here in the SF

Bay area and have used them a number of times in medieval Arabic

recipes. Colocasia esculenta are also eaten in Indonesia.

 

Several of these tubers often eaten first cooked, cut longwise into

halves or quarters, then rubbed with ragi (a type of dried yeast

often mixed with some spices), and left to ferment - which often

takes only a few hours in hot and humid Java. They are then cut up

into large cubes and eaten as snacks after the afternoon nap before

dinner.

 

Another way to eat starchy tubers in Indonesia is to cook them in

coconut milk with sugar and eaten as a sweet. Sweets are not

generally eaten with/after meals, so unlike our desserts. Rather they

are eaten at snack time - there are several in a day, most especially

in the afternoon after the nap and before dinner, and again several

hours after dinner, often quite late. These are purchased from

street-vendors with mobile pushcarts. Few people eat a lot at meals -

often because they can't afford much - and it is also very hot and

humid, so it makes sense to eat lightly multiple times during the day.

 

Anyway, i digress... back to SCA-period Near and Middle Eastern

starchy tubers...

 

Colocasia is the most likely starchy tuber for your persona, Judith,

if you place her anywhere from al-Andalus to Mesopotamia (and that's

a BIG distance). I do not know if they were grown and/or eaten in

Persia, Transoxania (aka Transoxiana), or other parts of Central

Asia. Anyone?

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:31:02 -0700

From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:

        Substitute   for Potatoes?

 

As far as I can tell, the use of cattail roots (rhizomes) as a food (the

core, after peeling off the woody outer shell), only dates back to Europeans

coming to America (unless you're doing Native American cooking, in which

case you're looking thousands of years B.C.).  Despite the fact that some

cattails (notably, the Dwarf Cattail) are native to Eurasia, I can't find

any record of period usage.  I have read a source that Russians consider the

young, peeled shoots a delicacy, and, of course, both the inner flower and

the pollen are edible, but I can't find period documentation.   Except for

use as a building/crafting material.

 

anyone else find this?  You can supposedly mash them, fry them, boil them,

bake them, cook and dry them and use them for flour, any number of

usages....including substituting them for potatoes.   Apparently, they're

quite tasty, but not completely potato-like.  One author stated he preferred

cattails, however.

--

Ian of Oertha

 

 

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:31:02 -0700

From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:

        Substitute   for Potatoes?

 

As far as I can tell, the use of cattail roots (rhizomes) as a food (the

core, after peeling off the woody outer shell), only dates back to Europeans

coming to America (unless you're doing Native American cooking, in which

case you're looking thousands of years B.C.).  Despite the fact that some

cattails (notably, the Dwarf Cattail) are native to Eurasia, I can't find

any record of period usage.  I have read a source that Russians consider the

young, peeled shoots a delicacy, and, of course, both the inner flower and

the pollen are edible, but I can't find period documentation.   Except for

use as a building/crafting material.

 

anyone else find this?  You can supposedly mash them, fry them, boil them,

bake them, cook and dry them and use them for flour, any number of

usages....including substituting them for potatoes.   Apparently, they're

quite tasty, but not completely potato-like.  One author stated he preferred

cattails, however.

--

Ian of Oertha

 

 

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:25:31 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:

        Substitute for Potatoes?

 

I can't speak to period use, but 30 years ago I took a class on

foraging wild foods.  My hazy memories that cattails shoots were

bland but edible, and probably didn't have a lot of calories.  The

teacher compared them to palm shoots.  I'm afraid I don't remember

what the cattail rhizomes were like, although I think we ate them too.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:20:40 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cattails (was Re: Definition of "Period Cooking"

        was Re: Substitute for Potatoes?)

 

Searching for cattail, I found that they are called reedmace in

England and and the shoots called "Cossack's Aspargus".  These aren't

period references, but gives something else to search for.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:35:26 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cattails

 

Cattails are also known as bulrush, reed-mace, cat-o'nine tails,  

cossack asparagus, marsh beetle, and candlewick.

 

John Gerard includes bulrushes and says that the seeds  are used  to  

provoke sleep with a warning that they can provoke a "dead sleepe."  

They are also used for menstrual problem.

 

To take away VVarts from the face or Hands.

 

Take Purslain, and rub it on the warts, and it maketh them fall away:  

Also the juice of the Roots of Rushes applyed, heal|eth them.

The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving, 1675

 

Richard Mabey doesn't indicate that they are eaten in England, but I  

wonder if they were possibly eaten during famine times.

 

This might not have been recorded or mentioned in some way in the  

multitude of references to rushes or reeds.

 

See also

http://www.plantpress.com/wildlife/o1134-bulrush.php

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:36:34 -0700

From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cattails

 

Yeah, I've encountered this, too, although the bulrush, proper, is another

species of plant, in parts of Southern America, some cattails are called

bulrushes, too.

 

Very confusing.

 

Btw, proper bulrushes: Scirpus genus, but cattails Typha. Still, people call

them different, so I'm not sure if searches are going to be

definitive....oh, well

 

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

<<< Cattails are also known as bulrush, reed-mace, cat-o'nine tails, cossack

asparagus, marsh beetle, and candlewick.

 

John Gerard includes bulrushes and says that the seeds  are used  to

provoke sleep with a warning that they can provoke a "dead sleepe."  They

are also used for menstrual problem.

 

Johnnae >>>

--

Ian of Oertha

 

 

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:52:51 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

 

A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete copy,

perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

 

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable

Past. Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a

close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe

for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish

potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern

Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes

(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may

have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such

a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be

interested in seeing it.

 

Many thanks.

 

Bear

 

----- Original Message -----

 

Ein K?stlich neu Kochbuch (1598) by Anna Wecker (or Weckerin) - which is

apparently the first printed cookbook with a woman author (the earlier

women's cookbooks are manuscripts).  She was the wife of a physician and

in the court of Pflazgraf of Rheinland - I suspect she was quite learned

and am peripherally interested in identifying her source of knowledge for

her medical advice, but primarily focused on the food and recipes at this

point. I am only a few months into the project and trying to develop the

specialized vocabulary.  So far the recipe amounts are mostly single dish,

and is written in a type of grandmotherly stream-of-consciousness sort of

way. So far I have done the table of contents of part 1 and 2, have been

excited about fritters, funnel cakes, proto-baumkuchen and quark.  Current

work is to identify, number and more or less name each recipe.

 

The baumkuchen queries based on an instruction for "heidenische teig" took

me on a road that led me to read Ryff's section on grains and beans.  And

thus, I want to know more!  I'm trying to sort out in my mind the

different type of grains used in baking for one, along with some of the

words being regionally specific and subject to variant spelling.  In my

head I told myself I needed to go back and get a grounding in the basics

to help this attempt at understanding the nature of the ingredients.  It

has been a great deal of fun.

 

I've been blogging about it here:

 

http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/weckerin

http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/baumkuchen

 

Katrine

 

 

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:30:14 -0800 (PST)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

 

It's available on line here:

 

Wecker, Anna:

Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,

Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern

auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten

... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.

Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.

- Amberg, 1598

Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b

[2008-10-15]

URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

 

<<< A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete

copy, perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

 

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable

Past. Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a

close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe

for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish

potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern

Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes

(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may

have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such

a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be

interested in seeing it.

 

Many thanks. >>>

 

It's available on line here:

 

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/ausgaben/uni_ausgabe.html?recherche=ja&;projekt=1174066449&autor=Wecker%2C+Anna&titel=&sortjahr=

 

The details:

 

Wecker, Anna:

Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,

Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern

auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten

... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.

Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.

- Amberg, 1598

Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b

[2008-10-15]

URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

 

For those not familiar with this site needing instructions:  Search for

Wecker, Anna as author if the info above doesn't come up.  Click on the

URN in the description and there will be a pdf download link in the upper

right. When the menu comes up click 'ja' and then the Weiter button.

 

There are other cookbooks and texts there.  The Bavarian State Library is

a treasure trove.

 

I'll look and see what I can find for the similarity to R?sti if you don't

get there first.  Of course I was looking for an elusive potato recipe

(what good German wouldn't??) but there are parts I have only just briefly

scanned so far.

 

Katrine

 

<the end>



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