fur-msg - 2/13/08
Use of fur in period. How to work with it in the SCA. Fake fur. Dyeing fur.
What to do with scraps of fur.
NOTE: See also the files: textiles-msg, velvet-msg, horn-msg, ivory-msg, leather-msg, leather-dyeing-msg, parchment-msg, feathers-msg, cloaks-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:42:53 EST
From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Fake fur references & techniques
Here's the references I mentioned.
Swedish Handcraft by Anna-Maja Nyle'n, ISBN 91-7114-220-7
Looks like a coffee table book but actually has a lot of neat info on feasting
customs, early scandanavian ways of life, trade routes etc., also has
woodworking, metal working, notes on castle inventories etc.
Russian type hat-fake fur technique
Handwoven Magazine by Interweave press issue jan/Feb 1994, Fleece-edged Hat
With a few minor changes - color selection, etc. - has lots of possibilites
for a period hat.
Magge
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:35:00 -0600
From: KATHARINE WHISLER <kwhisler at kentlaw.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Dyeing Fur
Yve asked about dyeing fur.
Fur is protein, so you can use the same type of dye you use to dye wool or
silk. However, you don't want to ruin the skin, so you should avoid using
any type of dye that you need to boil. Your best bet would be dye that
works for feathers or leather. Check the local Tandy store for leather
dyes, or try the type of "French" alcohol & water dyes used for silk
painting. I know these work for feathers, they should work for fur as well.
--Kathy/Katerina
From: N56MTred at aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:39:00 EST
Subject: Rabbit lined cloaks
To: stefan at florilegium.org
Hi - I visited your web site in search of info about cloaks and read about
someone having a problem with trying to line a cloak with rabbit fur.
Basically she was afraid the leather of the rabbit would not be strong enough
to fit around the shoulders and would tear over time. This supposition is
true. Quilting was suggested by someone and this will work fairly well -
subject to how well the quilting is done. There is an alternative to
quilting - use the new type of iron on interfacing pelon that is readily
available in several weights at almost any fabric store. The leather will
take the heat necessary to bond the material if applied according to standard
directions. I have found that applying the pelon before cutting and sewing
works best. I have recycled old fur coats purchased at rummage sales and
secondhand clothing stores using this method with good results. This method
also helps keep the fur from shedding if it is old, poorly tanned, or has
been stored improperly.
Hope this information can be of use to some of your readers.
Sincerely,
Nanzy Chandler-Brown
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:49:40 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - fleece cleaning
[the question was how to rejuvinate a matted, worn fleece that might
not make it through the clothes washer again]
I've been advised that you shampoo the fur side with baby shampoo, let
it dry, then rub lots of mink oil or other conditioner into the skin
side.
Selene
From: mikea at mikea.ath.cx (Mike Andrews)
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Department of Forensic Thaumaturgy, Miskatonic University, Arkham, MA
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:53:39 GMT
Nomad in Starkhafn <NomadNStarkhafnNOSPAM at aol.com> wrote:
: Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
: (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
: I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
: it. Many thanks in advance. :-)
You can cook down odd scraps to make hide glue. It takes a
while and may not emit the most pleasant odors, but it's a
useful glue. A crock pot will be useful here.
A quick Google search on "making hide glue" was very productive,
and here are a _few_ of the resulting URLs:
<http://www.redrival.com/knapanon/glue.html>;
<http://www.uqac.uquebec.ca/PleinAir/toolsgl1.htm>;
<http://www.artrans.com/rmsg/_newsgroups/toolsgl1.htm>;
(also has info on making bone needles)
<http://www.vanedwar.dircon.co.uk/glue.htm>;
The Glue FAQ -- with info on using hide glue
<http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/glue.html>;
Pointers to Cennini's and Theophilous' books.
I have Cennini's, and strongly recommend it.
<http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/glues-msg.html>;
This Florilegium article has posts from some folks
whom I _very_ highly respect, including Balderik,
Iolo, Diarmuid ui Duinn, and Thomas Peregrinus.
--
Mike Andrews / Michael Fenwick Namron, Ansteorra
mikea at mikea.ath.cx
Tired old music Laurel since 1986
From: inge <lyorn at gmx.de>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:34:38 +0200
Nomad in Starkhafn wrote:
> Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
> (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
> I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
> it. Many thanks in advance. :-)
Fur trim on cloaks or other winter garb. (If you have winter in Caid ;-)
inge
From: "Ken Koll aka Lord Valdis of Gotland" <lvaldis at mail.cvn.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:24:50 -0400
> Nomad in Starkhafn wrote:
> > Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
> > (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
> > I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
> > it. Many thanks in advance. :-)
pouches, favors, trim, finger puppets, outfit a group in tuchux garb (that
many skins should do at least a dozen woman or a dozen and a half men),
chair padding, bedspread, chair covering, shawl or cloak...I am still
thinking but these should keep you busy. Only make glue if fur is nasty
nasty, hide glue is not expensive and can be bought. Have fun.
Lord Valdis of Gotland
From: "james rich" <7152 at cableone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:05:36 -0500
If the scraps are not large enough to trim a cloak or adult garb, use them
to trim a child's or even a doll's garb, or perhaps as trim for an accessory
such as a pouch. Do you have enough to make a collar and/or cuffs? If you
just have tiny scraps, how about paintbrushes? Hmm...
AElfwenna
Subject: [Ansteorra] Period furs- long
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:43:50 -0600
From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Colete penned:
Switching gears here... Common sense tells me
that if the cat was skinned then the fur might
have been used for lining tunics, cloaks, and
various other parts of clothing. How true is
this? (I've always imagine lining as bunny fur.)
*******
My research in this area is very limited as I try to stick to the timeframes
with which I'm most enamored: 1430-1495 in southern France and what is now
Germany, and more recently 1560-1570 in Holland.
Strictly using paintings and written sources, fur almost never appears as a
lining of even the lower or middle class citizens in the Burgundian era.
Squirrel seems to be the most predominant fur for lining the heavy outer
garments for the upper class. Ermine is generally used for garments of
ceremony, although it can be seen in some upper-class garments (see van Eyks
"Arnolfini Wedding" or "St. Jerome at His Study" dated 1434 and 1441,
respectively). These examples of a slickish white fur *could* be a
depiction of rabbit but I find it unlikely due to the remarkable fragility
of rabbit skin on the whole and the implication of status that ermine in the
white brings.
In contrast, ermine is not often found in Dutch portraiture of a hundred
years later, being seen nearly exclusively on court and (less commonly)
clerical vestments. On the rare occasions that the lower class is depicted
with a fur lined garment at all (see Breughels "Peasant Dance") the garment
appears to be either a cast off or worn out trapping of a wealthier previous
owner.
Whenever the question of what fur to use pops up, keep in mind the capacity
in which it will be used. If it's for Duchess Politicalmarriage, then it's
likely to be rare and expensive and hard to acquire. Ever try to nab a
squirrel without a shotgun? The clever little buggers learn about traps
quickly... and ermine are even worse being even smaller and in the weasel
family. Squirrel is the more durable of the two- what a coincidence that we
see it on a lot of outdoor scenes. My wife is about to undertake the
construction of a mens houppelande entirely lined in squirrel and guesses at
around 125 of the little devils are going to have to join in and help- I'll
let you speculate on what it would take in ermine at 1/4 the size.
It just isn't practical for the commoner to wear fur, even when there are no
ordinances against it. You can't wear it when you're hot. It stinks when
it's wet. It gets stiff. In order to get it to last you have to wear the
furs that aren't all that much to look at. You might as well wear wool...
so they did. The exceptions seem to be mittens and hats. Requiring less
fur to make as well as fur that is not as fine, we see both of these items
in abundance in the art of both of these timeframes. Stiffness in a hat is
often desirable. Here, if anywhere, is where you might see rabbit fur, what
with it's ready availability to the lower classes everywhere in Europe.
As a final related note, animal *tails* are often seen dangling from the
clothing and belts and sundry possessions of sca-ers. In both the periods I
mention, having animal tails depending from you or your possessions is an
indicator to those around you that you are either an invalid or insane or in
some other way not suited for any other task than begging for alms. (see
Brueghels "Battle Between Carnival and Lent" or "The Cripples" for details)
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:32:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Holly Frantz <hefrantz at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
For two examples of animal tails and parts (not
necessarily ermine) in period portraiture, please see:
Family of Uberto de' Sacrati, c. 1480, possibly a family of idiots?
Man with a Golden Paw, c. 1527, may be a real paw, may be jewelry
Both available at the web gallery of art.
Niccola Setaro
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:25:23 -0600
From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Niccola Setaro penned:
For two examples of animal tails and parts (not
necessarily ermine) in period portraiture, please see:
Family of Uberto de' Sacrati, c. 1480, possibly a family of idiots?
Man with a Golden Paw, c. 1527, may be a real paw, may be jewelry
Both available at the web gallery of art.
***********
In the family portrait you refer to, the prominent 'danglies' depending from
the upper sleeves of both father and son are not, in point of fact, animal
tails. Rather, they are thick cloth points used to attach the outer sleeves
(obviously not pictured here). The wide bow-tie type points first appear on
the fashion scene around the time of this portrait (c. 1480)and can widely
be seen up through the cavalier period. Ghirlandaios "Herrods Banquet" has
several examples of that same strange mid-sleeve placement. Other examples
of points of a similar thickness can be found at the site you mentioned in
the following portraiture (I didn't get past the letter 'D' in the 1550s but
I think this will do for a start):
1470-1500
BOLTRAFFIO, Giovanni Antonio "Portrait of a Young Woman"
BOTTICELLI, Sandro "Portrait of an Unknown Personage with the Medal of
Cosimo il Vecchio"
COSTA, Lorenzo "Portrait of a Woman"
TURA, Cosme "Portrait of a Young Man"
1500-1550
BORGOÑA, Juan de "Lady with a Hare"
BRONZINO, Agnolo "Lucrezia Panciatichi"
DÜRER, Albrecht "Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman"
I would like to add my own short qualifiers, however, concerning tails and
fur:
Firstly, that ermine tails seem to have always been outside the regular
implication that other animal tails seem to represent. Their tiny black dot
seems to consistently have been just the chic addition to judicial and royal
robes from the 1300s onwards.
Secondly, that fox seems to have risen sharply in popularity in the 16th
century (but only readily available to the upper and upper-middle class yet
again). Fox tails, however, still indicate that the wearer is drooling on
the church steps.
Lastly, that as Lady Niccola pointed towards already, there became in the
late 15th century and all through the 16th century an affinity for other
animal bits to be gilded and trussed with loot and toted about as jewelry.
Heads and feet seem to be the rule on these morbid little treasures.
Although not represented on the Web Gallery of Art, Moroni did a wonderful
portrait of a lady in pink (recently on display in Dallas) with what can
only be described as The Great Gilded Weasel Head of Gaud. It's creepy and
cool, all in one... kind of Addams Family meets the Medici Family.
Sir Dieterich
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:29:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Holly Frantz <hefrantz at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sir Dietrich, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with
you. I'm familiar with all of the portraits that
you've mentioned and I've looked at them again. In
these portraits, these ties are obviously attached to
the top or shoulder of the outer garment. Now, that
shoulder may actually extend half-way down the arm so
that it appears that the ties are attached on the arm
itself but they are really attached to the outer
garment and don't extend from the arm of the shirt or
chemise. In most of these portraits it's also very
easy to see that what is depicted is a wide ribbon or
tie.
The only portrait that has clothes and ties that bear
a resemblence to the family portrait I mentioned is
Tura's "Portrait of a Young Man". Though, if they are
the same, then the unknown artist of Uberto de'
Sacrati's family did an exceedinly poor job of
rendering the ties, choosing to make them all a
stylized shape and hanging as if they had a certain
amount of weight and not free-hanging ribbons or ties.
Subject: [Ansteorra] Period furs- long
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:57:17 -0600
From: Alexandria Doyle <dragonlair at wireweb.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> These examples of a slickish white fur *could* be a
> depiction of rabbit but I find it unlikely due to the remarkable fragility
> of rabbit skin on the whole and the implication of status that ermine in the
> white brings.
In the inventories of Queen Elizabeth, there are records of rabbit fur
being used for linings and trimming for her gowns. Sable, ermine and
varieties of rabbit were the most common, also used were mink and
squirrel, with lettice, lamb and wolf used infrequently. There is also
mention of sable being used for tippets which were worn around the neck
and shoulders.
Alexandria
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 20:21:48 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Garb materials: fur
If you're looking to add fur trim or lining to garb, a post on the
Historic Costume list told us the keywords to look for on eBay: "fur
cutter." Lots of different coats & whatnot, with holes or rips, for
around $5-$10 each.
cv
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:16:40 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT Air Mattress (was Pennsic Pity Party)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On 6/1/06, Micaylah <dy018 at ncf.ca> wrote:
> Actually I could just sit in my backyard and wait for bambi to saunter by. I
> live in a city but my house is on a hydro corridor that leads to the Ottawa
> River. When the coyotes and wolves aren't around the deer and bunnies come
> back. (if I could just stop stepping on the babies in the grass- twice this
> week!)
>
> There is also a deer farm just outside of Ottawa that I use as my venison
> source. I wonder if he sells hides? I cant imagine him allowing them to go
> to waste. tsk tsk
>
> Micaylah
DON'T try to use deer hide with the hair on. Because of the nature of the
hair, it will shed...and shed, and shed, and shed, and shed. Other critters
are fine, because the construction of their hides and the hair is different-
you'd love a bear hide, for example, although it's a bit heavy- but on
deer hide is out. I mean, those of us who have cats are used to everything
we own having cat hair on it. A deer hide is MUCH worse, and will shed a bit
at a time, for years, until it is bald. There's a definite reason Natvie
Americans used buck SKINS, not buck FURS.
--
Saint Phlip (leathersmith, among other thjings...)
<the end>