ivory-msg - 7/30/04
Ivory carving. ivory substitutes.
NOTE: See also the files: ivory-bib, horn-msg, lea-tanning-msg, bone-msg, glues-msg, tools-msg.
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From: afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 30 Sep 1995 11:50:44 GMT
netscape.user at nd.edu wrote:
: I really like medieval carved ivory, and would like to try a bit of
: carving myself. But I have found that real (uncarved) ivory is
: prohibitively expensive, illegal to import, (and hard on the elephants.)
: So I'm trying to find a good-looking carvable substitute. I want to make
: a 3"x4"-ish inset for a book cover or a small casket, so tagua nuts are
: too small. I don't care if the "ivory" is some horribly modern plastic,
: so long as its workable, and "looks" right. Any ideas?
: While I'm at it, I'm also interested in easily carvable substitutes for
: rock crystal, amethyst, and reconstituted(?) amber, large enough to make
: a goblet out of. Or maybe chess pieces. Any ideas?
: Please contact me here, or at:
For sizable pieces, the best substitute I've yet found is cattle
jawbone. It takes a lot of prep work to split into useable panels, but
Ive been able to get relatively flat sections of at least that size from
some of the larger specimens. Compared to most other bone, it's fairly
dense with smaller pores. Otherwise, fossil mammoth ivory is available,
but is quite pricey. Finally, you can do what was often done for bone
caskets and other flat panels: you can piece them together.
--
al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu
From: Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 18:36:23 GMT
Organization: Drachenwald
In article <44cd09$s1m at news.nd.edu> ** none ** writes:
> I really like medieval carved ivory, and would like to try a bit of
> carving myself. But I have found that real (uncarved) ivory is
> prohibitively expensive, illegal to import, (and hard on the elephants.)
> So I'm trying to find a good-looking carvable substitute.
(Cyrus posting from Garick's account)
As a many knife makers have found their is a substitute that looks just like
the real thing, reletively inexpensive and totally legal. It is called
fossilized ivory. Available from any reputable knife making supplier (check out
Knives Illustrated or Blade magazine for an up to date list). Before you say
"ivory, isn't that illegal?" i restate that these are legal sources and are
checked by our "loving" government very stringently and emphasis is on
fossilized. the usual source animal is walrus. please do not buy plastic
as it does look tacky as all get out, and it is a shame to waste all your
time and effort on something that will never look right.
From: don't at you.wanna.know? (Chuck U. Farley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:06:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom
->In article <44cd09$s1m at news.nd.edu> ** none ** writes:
->> I really like medieval carved ivory, and would like to try a bit of
->> carving myself. But I have found that real (uncarved) ivory is
->> prohibitively expensive, illegal to import, (and hard on the elephants.)
->> So I'm trying to find a good-looking carvable substitute.
I have always used ivory micarta in knives and swords and all that when I
needed ivory. It's about the same as ivory to carve, just a little more
brittle, but LOTS cheaper!
Ld. Gundiok Sweinbrothar
From: Robert Ament <rament at aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 30 Sep 1995 22:29:00 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University
Constantine's, a woodworking supplies company carries the
following:
CAST POLESTER IVORY LOOK-ALIKE
MC12 13/16" dia. rod $ 8.50
MC13 1 3/8" dia. rod $18.95
MC15 4" x 5" x 1/8" sheet $17.95
MC17 8" x 10" x 1/8" sheet $64.95
The catalog claims that it has a grain structure that is
virtially indistinguishable from elephant ivory.
Their order number is 800-223-8087
Hope this helps.
Robert of the Isles
Robert Ament
From: phall at primenet.com (Peggy Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 2 Oct 1995 00:12:02 GMT
Organization: Primenet (602)395-1010
netscape.user at nd.edu wrote:
[...]
: too small. I don't care if the "ivory" is some horribly modern plastic,
: so long as its workable, and "looks" right. Any ideas?
[...]
Have you ever tried FIMO ? I've seen some beautifully done things that
look like Ivory. Use the Ivory color FIMO. You can use like clay; it is
very malleable. You can also pressmold into designs. Then bake per
instructions. Glaze with a coating of bt. sienna or sepia acrylic paint,
wipe off excess.
: While I'm at it, I'm also interested in easily carvable substitutes for
: rock crystal, amethyst, and reconstituted(?) amber, large enough to make
: a goblet out of. Or maybe chess pieces. Any ideas?
: Please contact me here, or at:
FIMO recipes for amber, ivory, jade, turquoise, coral and other
semi-precious materials have appeared in "Ornament" magazine over the past
year +. I hear that a recipe for FIMO opals was in Lapidary Journal about
April-May 1995.
A method for re-creating Lapis Lazuli was in the New Clay book.
Check out the rec.crafts.polymer-clay newsgroup.
--
==========================================================================
Peggy Hall phall at primenet.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: looking for an Ivory substitute
Date: 30 Sep 1995 12:30:32 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
<netscape.user at nd.edu>
>I really like medieval carved ivory, and would like to try a bit of
>carving myself. But I have found that real (uncarved) ivory is
>prohibitively expensive, illegal to import, (and hard on the elephants.)
>So I'm trying to find a good-looking carvable substitute. I want to make
>a 3"x4"-ish inset for a book cover or a small casket, so tagua nuts are
>too small. I don't care if the "ivory" is some horribly modern plastic,
>so long as its workable, and "looks" right. Any ideas?
Have you considered bone? While there are some differences in working the
two, there are more similarities (IMO). Moreover, workable bone can be
gotten by visiting the nearest grocery store's pet supply aisle (while you
are likely to be able to get them at a cheaper rate from a butcher or
abattoir, the dog bones have already been cleaned).
An important thing to recognize about bone is that it is less smelly
and difficult the slower and more carefully that you proceed. OTOH,
if you or people you may be spending time with have trouble with
dentists, you may want to move to other substances (since the smells
of bone and power tool are very similar, and the sounds of the skritch,
skritch, of the carving tools apparently sounds a lot like getting your
teeth cleaned :) ).
>While I'm at it, I'm also interested in easily carvable substitutes for
>rock crystal, amethyst, and reconstituted(?) amber, large enough to make
>a goblet out of. Or maybe chess pieces. Any ideas?
I know that such materials exist, but I do not have any idea of how or
where to procure them.
"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep
-- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Ivory substitute
Date: 4 Oct 1995 21:29:23 -0400
Organization: The Internet
>>been used with a great amount of success. Yes, I said NUT, as in Pecan and
>>Cashew. Your better wood working suppliers should know of it. They may even
>>have it in stock. It actually looks like ivory, when it's cut and polished. I'
>m
>>not a carver, so I can't tell you how it works.
>
>The name of the Nut is Tagua. I have one soaking now, for
>teeth in a carving of a fish. The clerk at the store
>where I bought it advised me to soak it for 3 days before
>attempting to carve it.
>
>I took a cut at it before I put it in water - it is very
>hard.
>
>Alas - Carol seeks something larger. The largest nut in
>the bin was about 2 1/2" long.
>
Well, according to a book I got from Lindsay Technical Books,
you can make an acceptable ivory substitute if you:
"masticate" potatoes for 3 days in
sulferic acid, dry between two pieces of
blotting paper, and subject to great pressure.
I suspect this is designed for flat bits to go on pianos, but
if you've got something to use as a mold.....
Peter G. Rose | Azelin Cola | Ralph, the Carter, |
PO Box 3072, | of Wishford, | of Trollhaven |
Kingston RI 02881 | Bridge, E.K. | |
(401) 792-2301 | Gu. a tern migrant between 3 Quatrefoils Ar.
From: oso4sca at aol.com (OSO4SCA)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 4 Oct 1995 19:57:12 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
I know not if I should venture to assist, my knowledge being small on the
subject.
But bear with me and I shall offer what I have.
There is a material called Ivory micarta that is being used by knifemakers
and the like as a substitute for ivory. It is available from most
knifemaker supply houses.The latest Texas Knifemaker Catalog
(1-713-461-8632) list pieces of Ivory Micarta, (pieces are 5"x12" and
differing thicknesses with differing prices that range from 7.50 for 1/16"
thick to 34.50 for 1/2 inch thick, there are slabs and blocks available
too for the aspiring knifemakers out there. If interested, these ( other
suppliers) can be found in just about any issue of BLADE or KNIVES
ILLUSTRATED magazine. Or contact me and I will send you the info. Also,
there is fossilized ivory for uses like this but the cost is prohibitive.
If you wish to try bone as a substitute, then I suggest going to you local
pet supply house and looking in the chew toy section. There can be found
processed, (including serilized) beef bones. These work well also.
I hope this helps
In service
oso
Oso4SCA at aol.com
OsoForge at aol.com
From: maclain at mindspring.com (Bill Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 7 Oct 1995 03:11:00 GMT
Organization: Gryphon's Moon
There is a kitchen counter top material called "Corian" (sp?) that is
supposed to work well for an ivory carving substitute. I have no
experiance with it, but have had it recommended by several people.
---Bill Tuttle
maclain at mindspring.com
From: sjaqua at ix.netcom.com (Scott Jaqua )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 7 Oct 1995 23:07:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom
In <maclain-0610952308270001 at maclain.mindspring.com>
maclain at mindspring.com (Bill Tuttle) writes:
>
>There is a kitchen counter top material called "Corian" (sp?) that is
>supposed to work well for an ivory carving substitute. I have no
>experiance with it, but have had it recommended by several people.
>
> ---Bill Tuttle
> maclain at mindspring.com
Corian turns well in a lathe. People make writing pens with it, and
it turns out well. It has no grain, as it is a compressed resin matrix.
The only problem I see in using it as an ivory substitue is that every
piece of it that I've seen has a mottled grainy appearance similar to
granite.
Allesaundra de Crosthwaite
From: jhrisoulas at aol.com (JHrisoulas)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Looking for Ivory Substitute
Date: 10 Oct 1995 00:49:39 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
As stated in the previous post, fossil ivory would most certainly be
legal, except in California, as for some reason that has yet to be
answered, and it is quite humorous when examined, the "powers that be"
decided that fossil ivory is just as illegal as the fresh. As I understand
this was supposed to be ammended, and by now it probably has been, but for
a while there, in California, fossil Mammoth, Mastadon and fossil walrus
was illegal to sell or even own...If this has been ammended, I would like
to know.
On another topic, yes fossil walrus was worked in period, in fact, fossil
walrus ivory was a very highly prized handle material in the Mid-east.
Shirmani (walrus) grips were very sought after for grips on weapons....
Yours,
JP Hrisoulas
aka
8R
From: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us (Barbara Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Looking for Ivory Substitute
Date: 10 Oct 1995 15:51:44 GMT
Organization: Great Basin Internet Services, Reno, NV
Just got one of those Bourget Bros. jewelry, craft catalogs. It has
fossilized walrus ivory and tagua nuts. You can get copy of the catalog
by calling 800-828-3024 or write Bourget Bros., 1636 11th St., Santa Monica,
CA 90404
Hope this helps
Amaryllis
aka:Barb
e-mail: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us
http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/
From: Brenda L Hunter-Andrews <blhunter at mtholyoke.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Looking for Ivory Substitute
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 23:35:07 -0400
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Greetings,
With all this talk about ivory substitutes and concerning
yourselves with propagating the ivory trade, has anyone considered
recycling! By this I mean piano keys from old broken-down pianos? Some
have enough ivory to make it more than worth your while and maybe the
scrap brass could be sold for profit. Often times an add placed in a
local newpaper will bring results. Even paying $50 would net you many
times that amount in real ivory. Anyone who's priced it knows. Good luck.
Also, for those interested, I have just purchased a book called "The
Ivory Workers Of The Middle Ages," By A. M. Cust., London: George Bell
and Sons. 1902. I paid 25 cents for it on the library's discard table.
There is no copyright. Hmmm...
Regards,
Augustina BeArce
From: armoury at aol.com (ARMOURY)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: looking for an ivory substitute
Date: 14 Oct 1995 08:19:00 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
We use fossil walrus and mommoth which are legal and may be obtained from:
Rick B. Fields, 26401 Sandwich Place, Mt. Plymouth, FL 32776 Tele/Fax:
904-383-6270 ---or---Alaskan Treasures, 205 E. Dimond #514, Anchorage, AK
99515 Fax: 907-248-2328
You can also use linen Micarta (we use for knife handles which may be
obtained from Atlanta Cutlery in either block or slabs call: 404-922-3700
Ramshead Armoury, INC
From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Excellent Quality Simulated Ivory Is Easy To Do (Was Re: Ivory Art)
Date: 2 Sep 1996 00:36:22 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications Internet customer posting
In article <Pine.SUN.3.93.960828232244.2662G-100000 at dwarf.nome.net>,
morgoth at nome.net
Morgoth brought up the issue of obtaining walrus ivory. Aside from legality or lack thereof, the major deterrent for many SCA'ers is COST. Also, many have
philosphical objections to the use of animal ivory.
It is possible to simulate ivory using polymer clay (i.e., Fimo, ProMat, Sculpey). The basic technique involves thin layers of art translucent clay and an ivory-colored clay so as to reproduce the grain of real ivory. This is followed by baking your simulated ivory block maybe 5 mins (depends on size) to firm the block, then carving it to suit, then re-baking 20 minutes to harden fully. The final stage is to use dark umber or brown paint to antique the cuts and grain. The final result looks VERY like ivory. I sink small fishing weights into the gaming pieces I make this way. To the eye and to the heft, these items are indistinguishable from real ivory. I learned the technique
from an article by Tiry Hughes in an issue of Ornament magazine. If anyone needs detailed information or discussion, please email me directly.
::GUNNORA::
Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde
From: rayotte at badlands.NoDak.edu (Rayotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Ivory Art (joys of living in bush Alaska).
Date: 30 Aug 1996 06:25:09 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Network
: You're right, you can't get a raw tusk unless you are of the right
: tribe(s). However, you can legally own fossilized ivory, which is not
: much harder to carve than new ivory, and can be absolutely stunning. I
: have a pair of blue walrus teeth in pale blue, that I am not sure I