horn-msg - 2/8/08
Working with horn. drinking horns.
NOTE: See also the files: Horn-Spoons-art, ivory-msg, ivory-bib, N-drink-ves-msg, glues-msg, bone-msg, p-bottles-msg, fur-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: mikeh at moci.uucp (Mike Huber)
Subject: Re: Fake Ivory
Organization: ICOM, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:34:54 GMT
Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:
: Azelin wrote...
:
: >3) What does a relative humidity of 100% MEAN?
: >My answer: My understanding is that 100% humidity means that the air
: > is saturated with as much water as it will take, at it's current
: > temperature and pressure. This means that, when you put a bowl
: > of acid-soaked potatoes out to dry, so you can make fake ivory,
: > the potatoes won't dry. If the temperature goes down, the water
: > falls out.
:
: Fake ivory? Is this as interesting as it sounds? If so, does
: anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done,
: etc...
I don't know about acid-soaked potatoes, but I do use Tagua Nut as
an ivory substitute. I buy it at The Woodworker's Store.
Anaximander Domebuilder of Xidon
From: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Skip Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fake Ivory
Date: 29 Jun 93 23:49:32 EST
Organization: Auldhaefen Associates
In article <741272657.F00003 at ocitor.fidonet> Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:
> Fake ivory? Is this as interesting as it sounds? If so, does
> anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done,
> etc...
>
> Stephen of the Grove
> Steppes, Ansteorra FIDONET 1:124/4229
> ocitor!Stephen.Whitis at rwsys.lonestar.org
I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable"
ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished it
looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard.
Ciaran the blunt / Skip Watson
---
Internet: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us UUCP: ciaran at aldhfn.UUCP
Auldhaefen Associates Email: auldhaefen at aldhfn.akron.oh.us
From: BDP at HOLONET.NET
Subject: Re: Fake Ivory
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access System: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 19:39:13 GMT
Ciaran the blunt (Ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us) writes --->
Ci> I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable"
Ci> ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished
Ci> it looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard.
How cheap is the stuff?
I've got the latest American Science & Surplus catalog, and they sell
Taqua for $2 a nut. I've no idea how that matches the going rate.
BDP/Malachi
--
The Reverend Benjamin D. Pollack, [bdp at holonet.net]
Minister & Archbishop, The First Church of Cyberspace
aka "Morgan Bluejeans", [mbj at delphi.com]
Chaplain & Business Manager, Dedaparamaxxaginos Productions
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pressed horn
Date: 8 Jul 93 11:44:04
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
I met a man in Lancashire a few years back who works horn, he had the
techniques from his father who got then from his...
To soften the horn and make it workable it is put close to a fire. The
man I met uses an electric fire, but said his grandfather just sat
next to a yorkshire range and used the heat from the cooking fire.
The essence of the softening process is to heat SLOWLY
begin with the horn at a distance from the fire where it is
comfortable to hold your hands. leave it there for long enough for it
to heat right through, then move it a bit closer and leave it to heat
right through, keep going until the whole piece is soft enough to
wok with.
He was very scathing of people who heat horn too fast, he said that
the outer layers became softened, and it was possible to work the horn
to make spoons etc. but if the inner layers were not thorougly heated
they would constantly try to resume their former shape, this would
make the article weak as the different layers were pulling against one
another. Eventually this makes the article warp or causes its layers
to delaminate.
I don't know how long each stage of the heating process took, but he
said he usually took most of the day to heat things, occasionally
moving the hoorn closer to the fire whilst he went about other jobs.
It sounds as though you are getting the horn too hot too fast
How about putting it between the greased plates and then heating very
slowly, by a fire if you want to be period otherwise a low oven might
work.
What are you making? how thick is the horn you are working?
hope that's some help
Jennifer
From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter G. Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: potato/ivory
Date: 8 Jul 1993 14:06:48 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Well, I WAS going to wait until I got this to work, before posting, but:
According to _1001__Formulaes_, that I got via Lindsay Technical books,
to whose catalog everyone should subscribe, you can make artificial ivory
by:
Masticate peeled potatoes in sulferic acid for 36 hours,
dry between two pieces of blotting paper, and
subject to great pressure.
I reiterate that I haven't been able to make this work, because
I can't figure out how to apply great pressure without either
A) squirting the resulting paste out from between boards, or
B) preventing it from EVER drying...
As soon as I find a better source of acid, I'm going to try drying
the mass completely BEFORE applying pressure, and see if that works.
(the last batch of acid I got from a car battery that cracked open)
I'll post again if I ever get it to work.... Do Y'all want the formula
for artificial amber, too?
--Azelin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Drinking Horns
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
In article <1993Oct3.164848.1529 at camins.camosun.bc.ca>, ua923 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Mark Shier) writes:
|>
|> I've just purchased an unpolished horn. I know about bleaching
|> the insides to clean it out, but I'm not sure how to polish
|> the outside or safely seal the insides. I have polishing buffs -
|> tripoli, rouge, etc. Do these work on horn without filling the
The polishing buffs should work (I think I've done this at some time
in the dim and distant past). If you carefully go from course to
finer grits, you will bring it up to a mirror finish without any
scratches or pores to hold the compound (I seem to remember doing this
in a rush, and having some black residue remain in the fine scratches).
|> pores with compounds ? I don't want to discolour it. For the
|> insides, I want to use something a little more permenant than
|> wax. I've heard there are some good epoxies, but I want something
If you're only using it for cold drinks, bees wax lasts for quite some
time. Melt the wax in a double boiler, and at the same time heat the
horn to the same temp in the oven. Pour in some molten wax, slosh it
around, and (with the oven switched OFF) stand the horn upended in the
oven with something underneath to catch the drippings. This will
ensure a thin coating of wax over the inside of the horn.
|> food safe. Any suggestions for the outside after polishing?
|> Verathane?
|> Any help would be appreciated.
|> Mark der Gaukler.
Cheers, Balderik
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Drinking Horns
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 16:17:33 GMT
Ok, maybe I shouldn't recommend putting a wax coated
horn in the oven (even if that's how I'd do it).
Gotta be careful about putting flammable stuff in
hot places. With the horn heated up above the temp.
of the melted wax, you can slosh the wax around without
it hardening instantly, and you should be able to dump
out the excess wax. If putting the horn in the oven
makes you nervous, you can heat it by dipping it in
boiling water, or with a blow-dryer. It's just to keep
the wax from hardening as soon as you pour it in.
Cheers, Balderik
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: drinking horns
Date: 1 Dec 1993 20:05:49 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
In article <KGORMAN.100.2CFCD3AF at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>, KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca writes:
|>
|> This should go along with the question of how to prepare a drinking horn.
|>
|> My lord recieved as a gift a mug made out of horn. Unfortunately the taste
|> it gives liquid, or perhaps it's smell, is too over-poweringly unpleasant to
|> use it.
|>
|> Is there anything that could be done to fix this? As far as I can tell it
|> hasn't been treated with bees wax, how could I tell for sure?
|>
|> Eyrny
What does it smell/taste like? (or rather, what is the unpleasant smell/
taste that it imparts?).
If it were treated with bees wax, it should smell/taste faintly of honey
(I suppose this will vary somewhat depending on the amount of honey in
the wax). The layer of wax, if thin enough, might not be readily
visible, but should be obvious if you scape the inside with a dull
implement. (you'll get little shavings of wax)
From the sound of it, it is untreated. What I would do is wash it well,
perhaps using a strong detergent (if you use something *really* strong like
tri-sodium phosphate, you might want to limit how long you soak the
horn). Then fill and/or soak the horn with a weak bleach solution
(yes, javex is just fine). A few drops to a hornfull, or a capful to
a bucket should do it. You can leave this overnight, or for a day or
two, however long it takes to kill the smell. The solution should not
be strong enough to damage the horn in the short term, but you might want
to keep an eye on it for softening.
Rinse and allow it to dry thoroughly. (as stated in an earlier post:)
Melt some wax in a double boiler (careful as wax is flammable). Warm
the horn in the oven (150 deg or so - this is just to ensure that the
wax stays liquid long enough for you to coat the inside of the horn).
Pour in some of the molten wax, and slosh it around to coat the inside
with a thin layer, then pour out the excess.
The waxing process can be repeated at later times as you feel it is needed.
The bees wax can impart a faint honey-like flavour to beverages, but that's
not so bad.
Cheers, Balderik
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question
Date: 30 Nov 93 11:00:44
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
If You've got out the horn cores, (which I presume you have since you
said you'd emptied your horns) the next stage is cleaning.
If you boil your horns they will become soft and may de-laminate. Horn
is made out of lots of thin layers, which can be split apart for
making lanterns etc. but for a drinking horn you don't want this
splitting to happen, so don't boil your horn.
The best method of sterilising I have found is rinse thouroughly with
hot water and scrub out with a bottle brush. then soak in wine makers
sterilising solution. Alternatively the sort of sterilising solution
used for babys bottles works as well and may be easier to get.
O.K. sterilising solutions aren't exactly authentic viking, but the
bugs you might catch from a mucky daed cows head are, given the choice
I always go for safe sterility rather than authentic poisened beer!
If your horn is as it came from the cow, then I would recommend
trimming the top. This gives a thicker edge less prone to splitting.
Just fill the horn with water, hold it as you would for drinking and
mark where the water line is, then saw off the top level with that
line so that any spare curves and bumps are removed.
Horn is not very prone to decay unless you go to extremes like burying
in soft peat for years. As proof of this there is at least one
surviving dark age horn shown in Arthur Macgregors book "bone antler
ivory and horn" That's been around for a millenium or so and survived!
it was decorated with a carved lozenge pattern, so if you're going to
be a viking chieftan you might like to carve a pattern into the
thicker bottom end of your horns. If you extend the pattern up the
horn be aware that the horn gets thinner the further up you go.
A strap is very useful if your horn is anything above wine glass size.
A popular method of fixing is to drill a hone in the solid tip of the
horn and attach a ring of wire to the horn through this hole. (Make
sure you drill through the solid tip or you'll have a leak!) then tie
a loop slightly smaller than the mouth of the horn in a thong, leather
strap, length of tablet braid or whatever and slide it up towards the
mouth of the horn. Tie the other end of the strap through the loop at
the horns tip.
If you're good at metalwork you can get more elaborate and put fancy
patterned metal horn mounts around the mouth of the horn and on the
tip. Horn tips in the shape of stylised birds were quite popular. If
you fancy getting this ambitious let me know I can probably refer you
to some books with pictures of horn mounts in them. They definately
add pose value to a horn!
Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that
carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let
the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right
the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you
drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you
all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water
so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-)
Jennifer
Vanaheim vikings
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pa142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:29:01 GMT
In article <JAB2.93Nov30110044 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk> jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes:
>Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that
>carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let
>the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right
>the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you
>drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you
>all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water
>so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-)
I dunno if we're 'above' it, but one of the first things I was taught was to
turn the point down. I tell all newbies when I have the opportunity. But
then, here at Thor's Mountain, we rarely drink water, and a drenching is a
sinful waste of good homebrew.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mail to PA142548 at UTKVM1.UTK.EDU. Mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.
"Don't blame me, I voted libertarian!"
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From: LIBLBM at orion.DEpaul.EDU (MURPHY LORI)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: SCA Digest V6 #1061
Date: 30 Nov 1993 08:09:00 -0500
Organization: The Internet
Drinking Horns
Dear Matz:
All you need to do to a horn in order to use it as a drinking vessel
is to clean the inside as thoroughly as possible and then line it with
beeswax. Melt the wax in a double boiler and pour it in your horn and then
pour it out, repeat two or three times. If you have plenty of wax, this is
no problem. If you haven't, you'll just have to slosh the wax around in
order to cover completely. I suggest you do not use your horn for anything
hot or too acidic, and remember it is not dishwasher safe, wash only with
lukewarm, mildly soapy water.
Jon/Seamus
From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?
Date: 5 Jun 1994 15:56:50 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
I recommend that anyone wishing to work with horn--or wood or
leather, etc.--get a copy of THE BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING ii, edited
by William Scurlock and published by Rebel Press (publishers of
MUZZLELOADER Magazine). II contains a lengthy article on powder
horns and an absolutely indispensible article by George Glenn
on making camp equipment. He deals with box, beds, chairs, valises
and much else. My copy of II has been used so often that the
varnish has come off the corner; and I recommend it for anyone
in pre-19th century reenacting.
The section on horn tells how to clean it, how to shape it and
gives you such projects as a horn spoon, a cup and several other
useful items.
Any of the BOOKS OF BUCKSKINNING are great (and can be used by
medieval reenactors as well, so don't be put off by the title);
they are some of the few books published by someone else that we
regularly keep in stock. They can be picked up at most black-
powder events, at events we attend, from the publisher (Rebel
Publishing Co., Rte 5, Box 347-M, Texarkana, TX 75501 or from
most book stores that make special orders (it'll take a while,
though). The price is currently $12.95 and the ISBN is
o-9605666-2-7, LOC 80-54597.
Hope this helps, Folo
--
Damin de Folo -