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horn-msg - 2/8/08

 

Working with horn. drinking horns.

 

NOTE: See also the files: Horn-Spoons-art, ivory-msg, ivory-bib, N-drink-ves-msg, glues-msg, bone-msg, p-bottles-msg, fur-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: mikeh at moci.uucp (Mike Huber)

Subject: Re: Fake Ivory

Organization: ICOM, Inc.

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:34:54 GMT

 

Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:

: Azelin wrote...

:

: >3) What does a relative humidity of 100% MEAN?

: >My answer:  My understanding is that 100% humidity means that the air    

: >   is saturated with as much water as it will take, at it's current      

: >   temperature and pressure.  This means that, when you put a bowl        

: >   of acid-soaked potatoes out to dry, so you can make fake ivory,        

: >   the potatoes won't dry.  If the temperature goes down, the water      

: >   falls out.                                                           

:

: Fake ivory?  Is this as interesting as it sounds?  If so, does

: anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done,

: etc...

 

I don't know about acid-soaked potatoes, but I do use Tagua Nut as

an ivory substitute.  I buy it at The Woodworker's Store.

 

Anaximander Domebuilder of Xidon

 

 

From: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Skip Watson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fake Ivory

Date: 29 Jun 93 23:49:32 EST

Organization: Auldhaefen Associates

 

In article <741272657.F00003 at ocitor.fidonet> Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:

 

> Fake ivory?  Is this as interesting as it sounds?  If so, does

> anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done,

> etc...

>

> Stephen of the Grove

> Steppes, Ansteorra    FIDONET 1:124/4229

> ocitor!Stephen.Whitis at rwsys.lonestar.org

 

      I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable"

ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished it

looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard.

 

Ciaran the blunt / Skip Watson

---

Internet: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us    UUCP: ciaran at aldhfn.UUCP

Auldhaefen Associates                  Email: auldhaefen at aldhfn.akron.oh.us

 

 

From: BDP at HOLONET.NET

Subject: Re: Fake Ivory

Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access System: 510-704-1058/modem

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 19:39:13 GMT

 

Ciaran the blunt (Ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us) writes --->

 

 

Ci> I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable"

Ci> ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished

Ci> it looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard.

 

    How cheap is the stuff?

 

    I've got the latest American Science & Surplus catalog, and they sell

    Taqua for $2 a nut.  I've no idea how that matches the going rate.

 

BDP/Malachi

--

The Reverend Benjamin D. Pollack,                   [bdp at holonet.net]

      Minister & Archbishop, The First Church of Cyberspace

aka "Morgan Bluejeans",                                 [mbj at delphi.com]

      Chaplain & Business Manager, Dedaparamaxxaginos Productions

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pressed horn

Date: 8 Jul 93 11:44:04

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

I met a man in Lancashire a few years back who works horn, he had the

techniques from his father who got then from his...

To soften the horn and make it workable it is put close to a fire. The

man I met uses an electric fire, but said his grandfather just sat

next to a yorkshire range and used the heat from the cooking fire.

The essence of the softening process is to heat SLOWLY

begin with the horn at a distance from the fire where it is

comfortable to hold your hands. leave it there for long enough for it

to heat right through, then move it a bit closer and leave it to heat

right through, keep going until the whole piece is soft enough to

wok with.

He was very scathing of people who heat horn too fast, he said that

the outer layers became softened, and it was possible to work the horn

to make spoons etc. but if the inner layers were not thorougly heated

they would constantly try to resume their former shape, this would

make the article weak as the different layers were pulling against one

another. Eventually this makes the article warp or causes its layers

to delaminate.

I don't know how long each stage of the heating process took, but he

said he usually took most of the day to heat things, occasionally

moving the hoorn closer to the fire whilst he went about other jobs.

 

It sounds as though you are getting the horn too hot too fast

How about putting it between the greased plates and then heating very

slowly, by a fire if you want to be period otherwise a low oven might

work.

 

What are you making? how thick is the horn you are working?

 

hope that's some help

Jennifer

 

 

From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter G. Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: potato/ivory

Date: 8 Jul 1993 14:06:48 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

Well, I WAS going to wait until I got this to work, before posting, but:

 

According to _1001__Formulaes_, that I got via Lindsay Technical books,

to whose catalog everyone should subscribe, you can make artificial ivory

by:

   Masticate peeled potatoes in sulferic acid for 36 hours,

   dry between two pieces of blotting paper, and

   subject to great pressure.

 

I reiterate that I haven't been able to make this work, because

I can't figure out how to apply great pressure without either

  A) squirting the resulting paste out from between boards, or

  B) preventing it from EVER drying...

 

As soon as I find a better source of acid, I'm going to try drying

the mass completely BEFORE applying pressure, and see if that works.

(the last batch of acid I got from a car battery that cracked open)

 

I'll post again if I ever get it to work.... Do Y'all want the formula

for artificial amber, too?

 

                  --Azelin

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Subject: Re: Drinking Horns

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

 

In article <1993Oct3.164848.1529 at camins.camosun.bc.ca>, ua923 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Mark Shier) writes:

|>

|> I've just purchased an unpolished horn. I know about bleaching

|> the insides to clean it out, but I'm not sure how to polish

|> the outside or safely seal the insides. I have polishing buffs -

|> tripoli, rouge, etc. Do these work on horn without filling the

 

The polishing buffs should work (I think I've done this at some time

in the dim and distant past).  If you carefully go from course to

finer grits, you will bring it up to a mirror finish without any

scratches or pores to hold the compound (I seem to remember doing this

in a rush, and having some black residue remain in the fine scratches).

 

|> pores with compounds ? I don't want to discolour it. For the

|> insides, I want to use something a little more permenant than

|> wax. I've heard there are some good epoxies, but I want something

 

If you're only using it for cold drinks, bees wax lasts for quite some

time.  Melt the wax in a double boiler, and at the same time heat the

horn to the same temp in the oven.  Pour in some molten wax, slosh it

around, and (with the oven switched OFF) stand the horn upended in the

oven with something underneath to catch the drippings. This will

ensure a thin coating of wax over the inside of the horn.

 

|> food safe. Any suggestions for the outside after polishing?

|> Verathane?

|>           Any help would be appreciated.

|>                       Mark der Gaukler.

 

Cheers, Balderik

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Subject: Re: Drinking Horns

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 16:17:33 GMT

 

Ok, maybe I shouldn't recommend putting a wax coated

horn in the oven (even if that's how I'd do it).

Gotta be careful about putting flammable stuff in

hot places.  With the horn heated up above the temp.

of the melted wax, you can slosh the wax around without

it hardening instantly, and you should be able to dump

out the excess wax.  If putting the horn in the oven

makes you nervous, you can heat it by dipping it in

boiling water, or with a blow-dryer.  It's just to keep

the wax from hardening as soon as you pour it in.

Cheers, Balderik

 

 

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: drinking horns

Date: 1 Dec 1993 20:05:49 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

 

In article <KGORMAN.100.2CFCD3AF at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>, KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca writes:

|>

|> This should go along with the question of how to prepare a drinking horn.

|>

|> My lord recieved as a gift a mug made out of horn. Unfortunately the taste

|> it gives liquid, or perhaps it's smell, is too over-poweringly unpleasant to

|> use it.

|>

|> Is there anything that could be done to fix this? As far as I can tell it

|> hasn't been treated with bees wax, how could I tell for sure?

|>

|> Eyrny

 

What does it smell/taste like? (or rather, what is the unpleasant smell/

taste that it imparts?).

 

If it were treated with bees wax, it should smell/taste faintly of honey

(I suppose this will vary somewhat depending on the amount of honey in

the wax).  The layer of wax, if thin enough, might not be readily

visible, but should be obvious if you scape the inside with a dull

implement. (you'll get little shavings of wax)

 

From the sound of it, it is untreated.  What I would do is wash it well,

perhaps using a strong detergent (if you use something *really* strong like

tri-sodium phosphate,  you might want to limit how long you soak the

horn).  Then fill and/or soak the horn with a weak bleach solution

(yes, javex is just fine).  A few drops to a hornfull, or a capful to

a bucket should do it.  You can leave this overnight, or for a day or

two, however long it takes to kill the smell.  The solution should not

be strong enough to damage the horn in the short term, but you might want

to keep an eye on it for softening.

 

Rinse and allow it to dry thoroughly.  (as stated in an earlier post:)

Melt some wax in a double boiler (careful as wax is flammable).  Warm

the horn in the oven (150 deg or so - this is just to ensure that the

wax stays liquid long enough for you to coat the inside of the horn).

Pour in some of the molten wax, and slosh it around to coat the inside

with a thin layer, then pour out the excess.

 

The waxing process can be repeated at later times as you feel it is needed.

 

The bees wax can impart a faint honey-like flavour to beverages, but that's

not so bad.

 

Cheers, Balderik

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question

Date: 30 Nov 93 11:00:44

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

If You've got out the horn cores, (which I presume you have since you

said you'd emptied your horns) the next stage is cleaning.

If you boil your horns they will become soft and may de-laminate. Horn

is made out of lots of thin layers, which can be split apart for

making lanterns etc. but for a drinking horn you don't want this

splitting to happen, so don't boil your horn.

 

The best method of sterilising I have found is rinse thouroughly with

hot water and scrub out with a bottle brush. then soak in wine makers

sterilising solution. Alternatively the sort of sterilising solution

used for babys bottles works as well and may be easier to get.

O.K. sterilising solutions aren't exactly authentic viking, but the

bugs you might catch from a mucky daed cows head are, given the choice

I always go for safe sterility rather than authentic poisened beer!

 

If your horn is as it came from the cow, then I would recommend

trimming the top. This gives a thicker edge less prone to splitting.

Just fill the horn with water, hold it as you would for drinking and

mark where the water line is, then saw off the top level with that

line so that any spare curves and bumps are removed.

 

Horn is not very prone to decay unless you go to extremes like burying

in soft peat for years. As proof of this there is at least one

surviving dark age horn shown in Arthur Macgregors book "bone antler

ivory and horn" That's been around for a millenium or so and survived!

it was decorated with a carved lozenge pattern, so if you're going to

be a viking chieftan you might like to carve a pattern into the

thicker bottom end of your horns. If you extend the pattern up the

horn be aware that the horn gets thinner the further up you go.

 

A strap is very useful if your horn is anything above wine glass size.

A popular method of fixing is to drill a hone in the solid tip of the

horn and attach a ring of wire to the horn through this hole. (Make

sure you drill through the solid tip or you'll have a leak!) then tie

a loop slightly smaller than the mouth of the horn in a thong, leather

strap, length of tablet braid or whatever and slide it up towards the

mouth of the horn. Tie the other end of the strap through the loop at

the horns tip.

 

If you're good at metalwork you can get more elaborate and put fancy

patterned metal horn mounts around the mouth of the horn and on the

tip. Horn tips in the shape of stylised birds were quite popular. If

you fancy getting this ambitious let me know I can probably refer you

to some books with pictures of horn mounts in them. They definately

add pose value to a horn!

 

Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that

carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let

the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right

the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you

drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you

all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water

so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-)

 

Jennifer

Vanaheim vikings

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: pa142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)

Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question

Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:29:01 GMT

 

In article <JAB2.93Nov30110044 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk> jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes:

>Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that

>carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let

>the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right

>the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you

>drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you

>all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water

>so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-)

 

I dunno if we're 'above' it, but one of the first things I was taught was to

turn the point down.  I tell all newbies when I have the opportunity.  But

then, here at Thor's Mountain, we rarely drink water, and a drenching is a

sinful waste of good homebrew.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Mail to PA142548 at UTKVM1.UTK.EDU.  Mail to ARCHER at that address will

bounce.

             "Don't blame me, I voted libertarian!"

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

 

From: LIBLBM at orion.DEpaul.EDU (MURPHY          LORI)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: RE: SCA Digest V6 #1061

Date: 30 Nov 1993 08:09:00 -0500

Organization: The Internet

 

Drinking Horns

 

Dear Matz:

 

      All you need to do to a horn in order to use it as a drinking vessel

is to clean the inside as thoroughly as possible and then line it with

beeswax.  Melt the wax in a double boiler and pour it in your horn and then

pour it out, repeat two or three times.  If you have plenty of wax, this is

no problem.  If you haven't, you'll just have to slosh the wax around in

order to cover completely.  I suggest you do not use your horn for anything

hot or too acidic, and remember it is not dishwasher safe, wash only with

lukewarm, mildly soapy water.

 

Jon/Seamus

 

 

From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?

Date: 5 Jun 1994 15:56:50 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

 

 

I recommend that anyone wishing to work with horn--or wood or

leather, etc.--get a copy of THE BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING ii, edited

by William Scurlock and published by Rebel Press (publishers of

MUZZLELOADER Magazine). II contains a lengthy article on powder

horns and an absolutely indispensible article by George Glenn

on making camp equipment. He deals with box, beds, chairs, valises

and much else. My copy of II has been used so often that the

varnish has come off the corner; and I recommend it for anyone

in pre-19th century reenacting.

 

The section on horn tells how to clean it, how to shape it and

gives you such projects as a horn spoon, a cup and several other

useful items.

 

Any of the BOOKS OF BUCKSKINNING are great (and can be used by

medieval reenactors as well, so don't be put off by the title);

they are some of the few books published by someone else that we

regularly keep in stock. They can be picked up at most black-

powder events, at events we attend, from the publisher (Rebel

Publishing Co., Rte 5, Box 347-M, Texarkana, TX 75501 or from

most book stores that make special orders (it'll take a while,

though). The price is currently $12.95 and the ISBN is

o-9605666-2-7, LOC 80-54597.

 

Hope this helps, Folo

--

Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)

 

 

From: Karen.Moon at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Moon)

Date: 06 Jun 94 16:53:00 -0500

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?

Organization: Fidonet: Cygnus I.I.N. / San Antonio, TX / 210-641-2063

 

My Lord,

Having witnessed and participated in a number of horn cleaning

procedures -- lots of Vikings around here; it happens -- here's the

method we've always used: 1) Rig a stand for your horn in the sink, or

outside (or wherever); 2) Arm yourself with a good stiff bottle brush

and boil some water; 3) fill the horn with boiling water, let it cool

awhile and attack the grubby inside with the bottle brush. Repeat as

necessary; 4) Once the inside of your horn is free of nasty horn

residue, you start working on the smell which, if not neutralized, will

make using your horn as a drinking vessel nigh impossible. To do this:

5)fill the horn with boiling apple cider vinegar, let it stand several

hours, maybe even overnight. Empty horn, see if it's bearable yet.  If

it smells like vinegar, not horn, this is good.  If it still smells

bad, repeat process. *Note - IMO it will never smell "good", just

bearable.*  6) Now get a jug of really cheap red wine -- we can

recommend Carlo Rossi Chianti, but use your favorite local rotgut; 7)

heat up the wine, fill the horn with it and let sit. Again, repeat

process as desired.  Now I know this sounds like it takes awhile but

only the most offensive horns took over 2-3 days.  Now you'll need to

polish up the outside using... someone help me on this part.  My

boredom threshold was never high enough to get to this point so I left

it to the really hard-core crafters with their emery clothes and

jewelers rouge and what not.

As for the beeswax method, never heard of it and I don't know what they

were really doing.  It may well impart a very nice scent to the horn,

but you wouldn't be able to use it for hot drinks (and considering I've

seen everything from hot cocoa to Bloody Marys actually being mixed in

horns, I can't think bits of bees wax floating on the top of your

potables would add much to your enjoyment.)

Good luck.

If you find an easier way, let me know and I'll pass it on.

Mari ferch Rathtyen, OL

Barony of Bjornsborg

Kingdom of Ansteorra

---------

Fidonet:  Karen Moon 1:387/555

Internet: Karen.Moon at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org

 

 

From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: RE; Horn

Date: 6 Jun 1994 12:30:52 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln    

 

F.L. Watkins (folo at prairienet.org) wrote:

 

: Now I'm confused. It seems to me that pouring bees wax into a

: horn container is like carrying coals to Newcastle: the reason

: horn is so versatile is because it *is* waterproof. Has anyone

: else heard/done this?

 

: Yrs, Folo

: --

: Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

: Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)

 

I was under the impression that this was done to provide a safer

"lining" in which to pour your liquids in. Drinking straight from a

horn, without it being sealed, can be nasty tasting at best and plain

harmful at worst.  

It does not seal the horn in the sense of being water-tight, but

rather seals the horn hygenically (sp?)

 

mikhail nikolaevich

 

--

Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge      |

Withinne a thousand yere, and wordes tho             | M. Straatmann

That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge       | mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu

Us thinketh hem, and yit they spake hem so. - Chaucer|

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: RE; Horn

Date: 6 Jun 94 15:47:56

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

All we do to clean our drinking horns is remove the cores, give them a

good scrub with a stiff bottle brush then fill them up with

sterilising solution and leave a while.

 

the sterilising solutions vary from the ones used by home brewers, to

the ones used to sterilise baby's bottles. None of them seem to be any

better or worse than the others it just depends on what you've got

handy.

 

I know some people who sterilise with bleach, but it can leave a nasty

aftertaste in the horn if you don't rinse well enough. Some people

just wash them thoroughly with soap and water, but most prefer to be

cautious and sterilise.

 

I would guess that the beeswax lining is an attempt to line the horn

so that you don't have to go through so much cleaning. I even knew

someone who lined his horn with varnish since he was in a hurry and

didn't have time to clean it properly. That was a big mistake, the

horn tasted of varnish for ever afterwards. Personally I'd rather

clean my horn as any sort of lining would reduce it's capacity & I

want as much room left for ale as possible!

 

You can trim the top of the horn to shape and fit any fancy mountings

you want either before or after sterilising it. Some people I know

regularly sterilise their horns with sterilising solution for baby's

bottles & it doesn't seem to harm the horn or fittings at all.

 

My horn is pretty plain with just a braided leather strap to hang it

by, this is attached to a ring of wire fixed through the tip (the horn

is solid there so it's safe to drill through). I have seen a dark age

drinking horn in London Museum decorated with lines scribed round the

horn, and rows of ring-and-dots. Some time I'm planning on carving

something similar into a horn for myself.

 

I have seen horns with their surface left plain, and horns sanded to a

matt finish. The most popular finish is a smooth polish which is got

by sanding with increasingly finer grades of sandpaper down to 1000

grade, then polishing with jewellers rouge. It gives a lovely shine

and depth to the horn.

 

Jennifer/Rannveik

 

Vanaheim vikings

 

 

From: dickeney at access.digex.net (Dick Eney)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: RE; Horn

Date: 6 Jun 1994 21:08:01 -0400

Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

 

In article <2steps$1l9 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,

F.L. Watkins <folo at prairienet.org> wrote:

>

>Now I'm confused. It seems to me that pouring bees wax into a

>horn container is like carrying coals to Newcastle: the reason

>horn is so versatile is because it *is* waterproof. Has anyone

>else heard/done this?

>

So is cast iron waterproof, but it's still the better for seasoning.  My

lady, Tamar, points out that it's to make the horn smooth and washable

inside -- in its natural (rough) state horn would retain more than a

slight flavor of whatever you drank out of it last.

 

|-----Mandarin 2/c Vuong Manh, C.P. (dickeney at access.digex.net)-----|

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: RE; Horn

Date: 7 Jun 94 10:11:37

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

> My

>lady, Tamar, points out that it's to make the horn smooth and washable

>inside -- in its natural (rough) state horn would retain more than a

>slight flavor of whatever you drank out of it last.

 

All the cow horns I have seen have been smooth on the inside. Are

there some breeds that are rough on the inside? or are these old horns

that have cracked and peeled somehow?

 

Beeswax can get quite sticky on a hot day, I would have thought that

the horn would be more washable than the wax?

 

Jennifer/Rannveik

 

Vanaheim Vikings

 

 

From: gshetler at envirolink.ORG (Greg Shetler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: RE; Horn

Date: 6 Jun 1994 16:15:28 -0400

Organization: the internet

 

(see also the previous post - sorry, I can't thread from here)

 

The idea behind lining/not lining the horns really comes from whether the user

wants/ does not want the flavor of horn in his/her drinks. Personally, I

think the horn flavor is rather nice, and enjoy it. Moreover, just as with

pewter tankards, the flavor of your drink invades the horn, and enriches

future draughts.

 

Varnish can be used, but you must be certain to THOROUGHLY mix the varnish

first, and be sure that after complete drying, the horn is thoroughly washed

in a mixture of alcohol and water (to remove the easily diffused volatile

compounds).  Wax is better, because there is no real flavor problem....

 

For carving, I suggest using a dremel tool, with a fine bit.  Wood-working

tools can be used, but be careful:  the curved surface makes slips much more

likely....

 

Enjoy!

---

---------------------------------------->>

 

Mordock von Rugen, Commander, Outlands Fray

MKA: Greg Shetler

>From the Barony of Al-Barran, Kingdom of the Outlands

Once from Dun-Or, in Caid

Originally from Western Seas, in Caid

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: delint at meena.cc.uregina.ca

Subject: RE: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?

Date: 8 JUN 94 06:29:25 CST

Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

 

In a previous article, steveo at baervan.nmt.edu (Steven L Anderson) wrote:

>Yes, I am sure this is *somewhere*, but I'll be danged if I can find

>it!  How does one go about cleaning out a cow horn?  I have a good

>source (a vet) for them, but I want to know how to prepare it.  Any

>sources (or just a quick rundown) would be greatly appreciated.

>

>     Erik Sannvik

>

What I have been told is that one boils the wee beastye to loosen the goo

from the inside, and then work it over with a bottle brush.  I DON't know

how to polish it, but I will agree with the need to seal it by some means

(in one of the leatherwork Compleat Anachronists there's a recipe for a

pitch sealer that's probably better even than wax), not only because the

horn will ALWAYS give off the essense of damp cow (yum!), but because any

liquid you put into it can get into the horn and stain it. Especially bad

for fruit-punch fanciers...

 

Cedric van Kiesterzijl

"Mmmmm, froot punch...."

 

 

From: donan at ecst.csuchico.edu (Donan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?

Date: 8 Jun 1994 20:26:15 GMT

Organization: California State University, Chico

 

It's actually quite simple if you know how.

 

One way I did it was boiling the horns in water for a longh period of time,

just make sure you do this outside, my house stunk for many, many hours

afterwards of "boiled beef", but that didn't really seem to work too well

I found, so I let Mother Nature take over.

 

It was summer time when I did this and I just set the horns outside for a week

and let Nature's meat cleaners (yes, I used maggots) to clean out all the

flesh from the inside of the horns, leaving behind the inner core of the horn

that is normally connected to the skull.

 

Those little guys cleaned it out quite nicely, although it did look kinda

disgusting with the maggots crawling around inside.

After about a week, I could easily remove the center from the horn and then

boiled it out again, killing off/sterilizing everything that may have been

left behind.

 

As for treating the horn, you could use the old fashioned wax method, but as

you know, wax dissolves in liquids eventually. But if you want something that

protects as well as compliments the natural beauty of the horn, go to your

local craft store and look for "Envirotech" or "Envirotech Light". It's a

simple polymer plastic coat used for covering woodwork and such, like

Verithane, but 50x greater in protection but is not poisonous after it dries.

 

It's really easy to use, just follow the directions on the box.

 

Hope this helps and best of luck to you

 

And I invite anyone to write me, telling me how this method worked for them,

 

In service to all,

Lord Donan MacGlashan

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: solveig at utkvx.utk.edu (Duren J Thompson)

Subject: RE: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to?

Organization: University of Tennessee

Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 18:29:00 GMT

 

In article <8JUN94.06292539 at meena.cc.uregina.ca>, delint at meena.cc.uregina.ca writes...

>In a previous article, steveo at baervan.nmt.edu (Steven L Anderson) wrote:

>>Yes, I am sure this is *somewhere*, but I'll be danged if I can find

>>it!  How does one go about cleaning out a cow horn?  I have a good

>>source (a vet) for them, but I want to know how to prepare it.  Any

>>sources (or just a quick rundown) would be greatly appreciated.

>>

>>    Erik Sannvik

>>

>What I have been told is that one boils the wee beastye to loosen the goo

>from the inside, and then work it over with a bottle brush.  I DON't know

>how to polish it, but I will agree with the need to seal it by some means

>(in one of the leatherwork Compleat Anachronists there's a recipe for a

>pitch sealer that's probably better even than wax), not only because the

>horn will ALWAYS give off the essense of damp cow (yum!), but because any

>liquid you put into it can get into the horn and stain it.  Especially bad

>for fruit-punch fanciers...

>

>Cedric van Kiesterzijl

>"Mmmmm, froot punch...."

Hi! this is my very first time to use the rialto - eep! but I just couldn't let

this one go.  Locally, Sir Goldmund of Aragon taught a class a few years back

at a Norse workshop on cleaning a horn.  He used varying sized gravel to slowly

but surely clean it out. Now I know this isn't very fast, but I'm pretty sure

it's period.  Basically you start with large (sharp if possible) gravel pieces,

cover the end with something (to protect your hand) and shake it alot. Then you

move to smaller and smaller stones until you are using sand to polish the

inside.  He advocated wax to coat it but I recommend not using beeswax as it is

a little soft and softens easily in the heat. (Imagine getting to Pennsic and

finding melted wax all over everything.)  Some of the more commercial wax

hardeners would be advised.

 

                     Thanks, and Hi demere and martha!

                     Solveig Ericsdottir  

I am told my address is solveig at utkvx.utk.edu but I haven't tried it yet.

 

 

From: mross at offserv.tc.faa.gov (Mike Ross, nyma, x6976)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: water buffalo horn

Date: 28 Sep 1994 19:18:08 GMT

Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 

In article 25307 at prostar.com, moreta at prostar.com (Moreta) writes:

>

>IP>Good gentles,

>IP>  I am currently in the process of attempting to recreate a composite

>IP>bow.  The one piece of material that I am lacking is good lengths of

>IP>Water Buffalo Horn.

>IP>

>IP>  Does anyone know of a good source for horn? Thanks for your time,

>

>(not knowing what goes into making a bow...except on a VERY rudimental

>level..) could cow horn be used?

>

>Mo

 

Atlanta Cutlery frequently sells water buffalo horn in their

knife making section. I don't have the address handy but can get

it if wanted. Museum Replicas is a part of them so they can be

that way also.

 

Mike

---

Michael E. Ross   TRW/NYMA 

   (mross)         Target Generation Facility, FAA Technical Center

609/485-6976      Atlantic City Airport, NJ 08405

                   Internet:  mross at tgf.tc.faa.gov

 

 

From: nusbache at em1.rmc.ca (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating

Date: 27 Jan 1995 20:47:44 GMT

Organization: Royal Military College of Canada

 

B. Shaifer (imperial at delphi.com) wrote:

 

> What materials can be used to coat the inside of

> a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids.

> Bees wax is not acceptable.

 

Brewer's pitch is a food-grade pitch which works very well.  It's

commercially available, and at least on SCA merchant (Thomas of

Douglas) breaks it down into 1 litre tins for convenient sale to

hobbyists.

 

--

Aryk Nusbacher                   | When I have learned what progress

Post-Graduate War Studies Programme |   has been made in modern gunnery,

Royal Military College of Canada   |  When I know more of tactics than

                                 a novice in a nunnery....

 

 

From: bubba at zark.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating

Date: 29 Jan 1995 15:19:43 +0100

Organization: Lulea University Computer Society - Ludd

 

In <3gbm5g$ql at cs6.rmc.ca> nusbache at em1.rmc.ca (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher) writes:

 

 

>B. Shaifer (imperial at delphi.com) wrote:

 

>> What materials can be used to coat the inside of

>> a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids.

>> Bees wax is not acceptable.

 

>Brewer's pitch is a food-grade pitch which works very well.  It's

>commercially available, and at least on SCA merchant (Thomas of

>Douglas) breaks it down into 1 litre tins for convenient sale to

>hobbyists.

 

>--

>Aryk Nusbacher                        | When I have learned what progress

>Post-Graduate War Studies Programme      |   has been made in modern gunnery,

>Royal Military College of Canada   |  When I know more of tactics than

>                                a novice in a nunnery....

 

Greetings....

Remember that you doesn't have to coat the horn unless you will pour

acidic liquids in it. We scrape them well on the inside, and finish it

all by pouring strong tea in it to remove the yucky taste that it has

after cleaning and scraping.

 

Be well... / Ulf

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue)     *Canton of Frostheim

                              *(where frogs live NOT)

Vert, in pale a crescent inverted   *Barony of Nordmark

and a Thor's hammer argent.        *Kingdom of Drachenwald

 

bubba at ludd.luth.se -=-  U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

 

From: john.robarts at mercopus.com (John Robarts)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Drinking horns, coating

Date: 30 Jan 95 12:24:00 GMT

Organization: Mercury Opus BBS - St. Petersburg, FL - 813-321-0734

 

JJP>. at SUBJECT:Re: Drinking horns, coating                                N

JJP>. at FROM   :palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com                                       N

JJP>. at MSGID  :<palmer-2501950849160001 at q5020593.mdc.com>                  N

JJP>From: palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com (John J. Palmer)

JJP>Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

JJP>Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating

JJP>Date: 25 Jan 1995 16:43:35 GMT

JJP>Organization: Space Station Materials and Processes

JJP>Lines: 29

 

JJP>In article <5g9Y60u.imperial at delphi.com>, B. Shaifer <imperial at delphi.com>

JJP>wrote:

 

JJP>> What materials can be used to coat the inside of

JJP>> a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids.

JJP>> Bees wax is not acceptable.  Please return via email to

JJP>> Imperial at delphi.com..   Most gracoiusly Vladimir

 

"Spar Urathane" ....   It can be found at most Marine Supply

outlets. I have used it for Many years with No problems!

Be sure to let it dry throughly between coats. Four or five

coats seems to work fine, though I have used as few as two and

as many as ten.

 

Lrd. Corwin ap Arawyn

---

 

 

From: afn03234 at usenet.freenet.ufl.edu (Ronald L. Charlotte)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Drinking cups, coating

Date: 27 Jan 1995 05:31:43 GMT

Organization: Alachua County Freenet

 

KRMcNutt (krmcnutt at aol.com) wrote:

: I would also be grateful for some advise on this subject.  I have an

: unfinished horn that needs a coating.

 

: Kelly

: KRMcNutt at aol.com

 

The material that I've used with a fair amount of success is modern, but

is impervious to 90% of the abusive alchemy most of us are likely to drink.

It can be found under various brand names, but the one in front of me now

is called _Envirotex Lite_ and can be found at most well stocked craft or

hardware stores.  It is an epoxy type material and will stand up to

anything that most modern plasticware will tolerate.

 

A period material that works, if it can be found, is brewer's pitch, but

is not heat resistant.  I have seen a splendid leather drinking jack

turned into a shelf ornament by the application of hot coffee.  It can be

found by getting an issue of Zymergy (a home and microbrewer's magazine)

and checking out the suppliers of those who brew traditional "ale in the

wood".

 

Good luck, hope I helped

--

      al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris

      Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL

      afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu or roncharlotte at delphi.com

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: CRAFTS: Using Horn

Date: 21 Mar 1995 16:03:52 -0600

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

Some moths ago, I posted to both of these locations seeking information

regarding the use of Horn in period.  If I may be so bold, I now

post some really nifty information...

 

The Following material is excerpted from:

 

MacGregor, Arthur M.  Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn, the technology of

      skeletal materials since the Roman Period.  London & Sydney/

      Totawa NJ:  Croom Helm/Barnes and Noble, 1985

 

(Which, if anyone has a copy of, or finds a copy of, that they would

be inclined to sell, please let me know)

 

Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn/Marc Carlson

==============================================================

Page 66

 

HORN

 

As already stressed, the composition of horn is quite distinct from that

of antler and hence the methods employed in working it can be very

different.  This is particularly true in the case of softening and

moulding, which have for centuries been essential processes in the

horner's repertoire.

 

Rendering horn soft and malleable is achieved simply by the application

of heat, although delicate control is needed to avoid damaging the

material. (No chemical change is therefore involved here, although

Zurowski (1974) mentions an alternative method of softening in which

horn may be boiled in a solution of wood ash.)  Following some weeks of

soaking in a tub or pit, the keratinous horn sheaths were separated

from the bony cores and set to boil in a cauldron.  After one and a half

hours boiling, the horn was taken out and held over a fire with a pair of

tongs, or with a special toothed warming tool (Andes, 1925) to evaporate

the excess water and further soften it by the gentle and even application

of heat; to was then ready for "breaking" or opening.  According to the

account of a York horner working in the first quarter of the present

century (recorded in Wehnam, 1964), one of two cutting methods would

normally be used, depending on the desired shape of the horn plate; after

the solid tip had been removed, the cut could either be maide in cork-

screw fashion to produce an elongated rectangle when opened out with

the aid of a pair of tongs, or else a straight cut could be made from

tip to base, giving a squarish plate.  Andes stresses that the cut is

normally made along the weakest line, namely the inside of the curve.

The whole of the above process had to be carried out quickly and efficiently,

while maintaining the approprriate temperature; too much heat would

scorch the horn, and not enough would result in its readopting its

former shape.

 

After some preliminary trimming and removal of blemishes with the aid

of a scraping knife, the plates of horn could be returned to the cauldron

for resoftening, afterwhich they were pressed between heated iron plates,

the smooth surface of which had been smoothed with Grease [Endnote #11:

in the 1740s a box press with a screw pressure control was developed for

this purpose (G.B.Hughes, 1953), several iron plates and plaques of horn

being interleaved within it.  An account of its use in 19th C Kenilworth

is reproduced in Drew (1965)]  Final smoothing and trimming was then all

that was necessary before the plates were ready for manufacture into items

such as combs, boxes, etc.

 

Exceptionally thin and translucent plates, such as were used in the windows

of lantersn (hence, probably, the ME form "lanthorn"), were produced by

selecting suitably light horns, soaking them in water for about a month,

and then delaminating them or splitting them into two or more leaves

before subjecting them to pressure as above.  Andres (1925) mentions that

translucency could be improved by smearing the plates with oil and warming

them over a fire, or else by boiling them in three parts water to one part

waste fat, before pressing them for half an hour and finally laying them

in a dish of cold water.  A fine globular lantern incorporating plates of

this sort is described by Way (1855) and several smaller lanterns are

illustrated by Hardwick (1981).  Individual leaves of horn, bearing marks

from preparatory grinding and polishing processes have been recovered from

Tudor levels at Bayard's Castle, London (Armitage, 1982).

 

Sheets of horn could be welded together by pressing them between greased

plates at temperatures higher than thos employed in the processes described

above (Wenham, 1964).  The steel plates were heated in a fire and placed in

press, where tallow was applied to them.  When the temerature was judged

to be right, the horn plates were introoduced and the pressure applied.

After a few minutes, the plates would begin to 'run' and the pressure would

be further increased.  On cooling off they would be stuck fast together,

providing the appropriate delicate balance of temerature and pressure had

been maintained.

 

Andes (1925) gives a recipe for enhancing the "elasticity" (toughness) of

horn, involving a solution of three parts nitric acid, fifteen parts white

wine, two parts vinegar, and two parts rain or river water.  After treatment

in this way, it is said that horn combs could withstand being trodden on

withouth breaking.

 

The methods described here have been in common use for at least the past

three centuries and many of them probably have much earlier origins.

Blumner (1879) quotes Pauscanius on the softening of horn in the second

century AD, and mentions a striking range of utensils known from classical

literary sources.  In most surviving early artefacts in which horn was used

other than in its complete form, too little survives of the organic material

to demonstrate whether it had been worked in this way. The plates on the

Benty Grange helmet [figure], howerver, were judged (Bruce-Mitford and

Luscombe 1974) to have been softened and bent into shape. A fragment of

thin horn with incised decoration, perhaps originally from a box or casket,

found in a medieval context at York [figure] may be an early piece of

pressed or delaminated horn.  The series of horn combes with riveted side

plates [fiure] seems to consist of the entire thickness of horn, which has

simply been flattened and filed.

 

The full potential of horn as a versitile raw material was perhaps only

fully recognized during the last century...

 

Bibliography for this excerpt:

 

Andes, L.E.  1925. Bearbeitung des Horns, Elfenbeins, Skildplatts, der

      Knochen und Perlmutter (Leibzeig and Vienna: Hartleben)

Armitage, P.L. 1982. "Studies on the remains of domestic livestock from

      Roman, medieval, and early modern London: Objectives and methods".

      in A.R. Hall and H.K. Kenward (eds.) _Environmental Archaeology

      in the Urban Context_ (London: Council for British Archaeology

      Research Report 43), 94-106.

Blumner, H. 1879. Technologie and Terminologie der Gewerbe und Kunste bei

      Greichen und Romern 2 (Leipzig: Teubner)

Bruce-Mitford, R. and Luscombe, M.R. 1974.  "The Benty Grange Helmet" in

      R. Bruce-Mitford, _Aspects of Anglo-Saxon Archaeology_ (London:

      Gollancz), 223-42.

Drew, J.H. 1965. "The Horn Comb industry of Kenilworth", _Transactions

      and proceedings of the Brimingham Archaeological Society_ 82, 21-7.

Hardwick, P. 1981. Discovering Horn. (Guilford: Lutterworth)

Hughes, G.B. 1953. Living Crafts (London: Lutterworth)

Way, A. 1855. "Notice of a relique of old municipal ceremony, preserved at

      Chichester" Archaeological Journal 12, 374-6.

Wenham, L.P. 1964. "Hornpot Lane and the horners of York" Annual report of

      of the Yorkshire Philosphical Society, 23-56.

Zurowski, K. 1974.  "Zmiekczanie porozy i kosci stosowane przez wytworcow

      w starozytnosci i we wczesnym sredniowieczu" Acta Universtatis

      Nicoli Copernici, Archaeologia 4 (Torun), 2-23.

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Horn Stuff (was Drinking Horns)

Date: 23 May 1995 14:59:14 -0500

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

<From: "Michael E. Vezeau" <vezeau at ctron.com>>

>I need some information on how to transform

>a dirty old horn into a clean, shiny, and

>smooth drinking horn that is safe to put

>to use.

>

>Any www, ftp, or book names that may help

>me out would be greatly appreciated.

 

*sigh*

 

For a "Drinking Horn" you don't need any books. The following process

will work just fine:

 

First:  Make sure the Horn is hollow, and the core has been removed.  If

        not, there are a number of ways to do this starting with leaving

        the silly thing sitting on your roof for a few months to let the

        core dry out.

Second: Soak the horn in bleach for a few hours.  Then scrub it and rinse

        it.

Third:  Scrape out anything that remains inside the horn as far down as you

        can reach.  My wife used a bottle brush for a long time on this (I

        don't since I rarely, if ever, make drinking horns).

Fourth: Cut the upper end of the horn off to form the lip of the vessel.

Fifth:  Sand completely smooth inside and out.

Sixth:  (Optional) I've recently had it suggested, though I have not as yet

        tried it, that at this point, is to fill it with water and drop a

        couple of Efferdent tablets inside it, leave it over night.  Dump it

        out and repeat.

Seventh: (Optional) Some people line their horns with Wax or Polyurithane,

        while others do not.  I'm told that as long as you don't drink anything

        that will soak into the horn and turn rancid (such as milk), you

        really don't need to line them.

Eighth: Sand the exterior again, rub it with steel wool if you desire, and

        burnish it with a bit of horn to get a perfectly smooth exterior.

Ninth:  Decorate.

 

Much of the preceeding was garnered from a guest at a wedding I attended

this weekend who's name I believe was something like "Gunther Bob"

(Nice guy).  I know, you're supposed to go to these things to see

the bride and groom off, not grill the guests, but... :)

 

I apologize for the "sigh" at the beginning, and what follows here is

a deleteable set of opinions.

 

Personally, I *HATE* drinking horns, unless they are VERY well done, in

which case I can only admire the wasted craftsmanship. They are, IMO,

overdone, and a waste of perfectly good horn.  I know they are Period

for some people, but I have rarely seen them done or decorated in a

period fashion.

 

Does this mean that I think you shouldn't have one?  Don't be silly.

My opinions should be relatively meaningless to anyone else but me, and

goodness knows if your accessories revolve around my approval, there's

something SERIOUSLY wrong.

 

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"    University of Northkeep

-- St. Dunstan                  Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                        (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: dragonse at ix.netcom.com (Robert Womble )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Raw Horn

Date: 26 May 1995 17:55:30 GMT

Organization: Netcom

 

In <3q2aneINN8al at dur-news.ctron.com> vezeau at ctron.com (Michael E.

Vezeau) writes:

>

>I am searching for sources of raw horn for

>the construction of drinking horns.

>Any info is welcome.

>

>vezeau at ctron.com

 

I Bought a slightly cleaned horn at Tandy Leather for $5.00, they had

uncleaned ones even cheaper.

 

 

From: Malcolm Grandis <Malcolm at celtic.demon.co.uk>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Drinking Horns

Date: 24 May 1995 00:09:29 +0100

Organization: None

 

What I have done in the past consists of three stages. Where you start

depends on whether your horn is fresh from the beast or fresh from

the junk shop.

 

1. (Fresh from the beast) Lose the yuckky brown stuff.

 

Scoop out as much of the spongy stuff and blood vessels as possible

using a split in half piece of bamboo. If the horn is none too fresh

you may need to hold your breath or eat some chilli while you do it ...

Go to the local pet store and get some live meal worms (used as fish

food) tip these still in their sawdust into the horn leave covered with

some nylon netting outdoors for 8 days.

 

2. (Fresh fom the junk shop) Wash and sterilise

 

Be careful - extreme/fast temperature changes can make the horn

delaminate internally. Immerse in very hot _not_ boiling soapy water

for 20 minutes. Rinse in the same water thoroughly and leave to cool

slowly. Now rinse with cold water, get some baby bottle sterilising

tablets and make up according to directions. Leave the sterilising

solution in all night. Rinse well in cold water and leave at least a

week for the horn to recover.

 

3. (someone just sold you this drinking horn) Seal It

 

If you do not seal it then certain acidic drinks such as ciders, dry

wines and most fruit juices will dissolve the horn, this makes for odd

tasing hooch and a bad stomach. The best thing to use is two pack epoxy

boat builders _varnish_ (not glue) which cures completely with very

little smell/taste residue. The next best thing to use is a normal matt

polyurethane varnish. Using emery paper wrapped around a stick roughen

as much of the horn as possible on the inside, pour in a few ounces of

varnish and slosh it around until you are certain all of the inside is

covered. Pour off the excess leave somewhere warm (60-80 degrees to

dry) if you are using epoxy since oxygen inhibits the cure fill the

horn with water before leaving it.

 

4. (optional) Wax it

 

Carve, paint and wax the outside, add a bronze rim and an animal-head

terminal and you are there!

 

--        _     _

Try Our /     /   Web Page http://ifu.net/html/culture/celts/thecelts.htm

        \_ELTI\_

==========================================================================

 

 

From: dragonse at ix.netcom.com (Robert Womble )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Help with Horn

Date: 25 May 1995 21:37:01 GMT

Organization: Netcom

 

In <3psqk1INN314 at dur-news.ctron.com> vezeau at ctron.com (Michael E.

Vezeau) writes:

>

>I am seeking information for the proper methods of making

>a raw horn into a safe-to-use drinking horn, if indeed there

>are any.  ANY info would help.

>

>Thanks

>

>vezeau at ctron.com

Clean it well.... Coat the inside with Brewers pitch (Homebrew store)

or a plastic resin that STATES it is safe to drink from. NOTE: Brewers

pitch does not work well with the following - Alchol of high proof

(EG:whiskey) or Hot Drinks.

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: CRAFTS: Working Horn (Yes, we're back to that again)

Date: 17 Jul 1995 09:37:53 -0500

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

As some of you may recall, I've been playing around with trying to shape

and work with horn, since it's a period material that appears to have

been used to a certain extent during "the Middle Ages", and tends to

be overlooked other than for making the ubiquitous Drinking Horn.

Since it's remotely possible that some of you may have a use for

this information, I thought I'd pass it along.

 

1.  Working Horn "Cold"

      a.  Sawing/Cutting

            Horn can be sawn into sections fairly easily (relatively

            speaking), although it's a good idea to use some sort of

            marking or tape to keep track of where you want to cut.

      b.  Carving

            Horn carves easily, if you exercise patience.  It is much

            more likely than wood for your carving to follow the grain

            more than you might like, but if you practice, this seems to

            clear up.

            Using files and rasps on Horn is like shaping the most friendly

            bit of wood you can imagine.  I sat and filed a bottle stopper

            from the end of a bit of horn one night during a populace

            meeting and part of a revel.

            *I've never done this, but am informed that horn (especially

            the more solid bits) turns amazingly well on a lathe.

           

            N.B., I would hesitate to use "power tools" on horn that's

            been shaped, as the vibrations they create can break any

            weaknesses in the horn, breaking it.

 

2.  Working horn "Hot"

      There are several ways of doing this, and I have been practicing with

      both.  Essentially, however, is that as horn gets hotter, it gradually

      reaches a point where it becomes plastic enough to mold and shape.

      Judging from some of the examples I've seen, if done properly you

      can do some seriously amazing things with it.  Unfortunately, I'm

      still trying to track down the proper way to handle it.

 

      As with making Cuir Bouilli, the point at which it melts is in a range

      that varies somewhat with each bit of material, and the instant you

      pass over that, you can wind up with an unusable product. The melting

      range appears to be 350 +/- 25 degrees Fahrenheit (180 +/- 14 C).

      If you are lucky, you can get it to change shape with out altering

      the color.  However, more often than not you will wind up changing

      it to a lovely golden brown color.

 

      If you overheat it, it will burn, giving you bubbles and badly

      delaminating stuff that will *stink*.

 

      The thinner the piece of horn you are wanting to shape, the easier it

      is to work with.  I have not yet worked out the most efficient method

      for delaminating the layers from each other, but am working on it.

 

      The best way I have have found to press horn, and to make sheets, is to

      cut the tip off the horn and then cut the horn lengthwise, either to

      unwrap it or cut it into two separate bits.  Then using sheets of either

      steel or wood (I'm currently using oak), I've been pressing them with

      some "C" clamps.

 

      All the recipes call for coating the plates in tallow, and I haven't

      tried that yet (although I'm currently rendering a batch).  I *have*

      used some spray stuff to keep the horn from sticking to my iron plates

      (when I used them), but it *is* possible that the tallow may have more

      of a purpose than just keeping it from sticking.

 

      1.  Boiling

      Some people claim that this is all that is needed, and I certainly

      can't dispute that they can turn out some really nice material.  

      Boil the horn in water for an hour and a half (or longer), enough to

      soften it.  At this point, you can either try shaping it by hand

      or with pliers, and then letting it cool.

      You can also boil the ends of horn cups or containers to stretch in

      order to set a base in it.

 

      2.  Dry Baking.

      I started with this and while it does seem to work, particularly if

      you work very gradually. However, you are much more likely to split

      and crack the peices you are working with.

 

      3.  Wet Baking.

      Boil the horn in water for an hour and a half (or longer), enough to

      soften it.  At this point, you can either try shaping it by hand

      or with pliers, and then letting it cool, or else you can then place it

      in the plates and bake it, still wet, for about 10-15 minutes (longer

      is fine if you watch it to keep it from burning).  You may have to

      gradually flatten it, tightening the clamps as it softens

 

[CAUTION: It may sound like a stupid warning, but 350 Degrees is REALLY HOT,

and the metal on the "C" Clamps will burn you if you so much as brush against

it.  You may want to wear a heavy long sleeve shirt with your gloves for this.

Trust me, I've got the burn marks on my arms from this]

 

      Finally remove the item from the heat and let it cool naturally before

      trying to remove it from the plates.

 

I haven't done the classic "Spoons" yet, but will let you know when I do.

 

Comments?

 

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"    University of Northkeep

-- St. Dunstan                  Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                        (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: dalm at enterprise.america.com (Laura McKinstry)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Source for Horns??

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:59:43

Organization: PSS InterNet Services, InterNet in Fl 904 253 7100

 

In article <DDqB5B.v2 at hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner) writes:

>From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)

>Subject: Source for Horns??

>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 20:19:58 GMT

 

>Does anyone have a Mail Order Source for Horns? I'm hearing that several

>companies offer Cleaned and dried horns for less than $10. The local

>Slaughter Houses, here, want about $8, and I have to clean them myself. To

>Save the mess, it's worth the $2.

 

Tandy leather does mail order, and they have cleaned and dried horns. They

have two varieties of horn; I think what you're looking for is top - quality,

unless you just want to make chunky toggles that look rustic. The top quality,

though, gor for more like $15.  I'd give you the number, but I JUST tossed my

catalog. I knew there was a reason I shouldn't have! Then ribs for dinner...

milord, you will forgive me if I don't dig... :)

 

The cheaper ones look like they were collected from a field two years after

they were shed. Not a pretty sight!  Good for checking air-flow in a

horn-flute before drilling into a carefully polished, gorgeous one, though.

 

Good luck!

 

 

From: HCANNON at netins.net (HCANNON)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Source for Horns??

Date: 29 Aug 1995 21:04:45 GMT

Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA, USA

 

In article <dalm.8.0006FF03 at enterprise.america.com>,

dalm at enterprise.america.com says...

>

>Tandy leather does mail order, and they have cleaned and dried horns. They

>have two varieties of horn; I think what you're looking for is top - quality,

>unless you just want to make chunky toggles that look rustic. The top quality,

>though, gor for more like $15.  I'd give you the number, but I JUST tossed my

>catalog. I knew there was a reason I shouldn't have! Then ribs for dinner...

>milord, you will forgive me if I don't dig... :)

>

>The cheaper ones look like they were collected from a field two years after

>they were shed. Not a pretty sight!  Good for checking air-flow in a

>horn-flute before drilling into a carefully polished, gorgeous one, though.

>

Try Track of the Wolf for horns that have been "boiled and cleaned" in

both polished form ($5.99 for 10", less for smaller) and rough (which

range from $7.99/10-14" to $35.99 for the scrimshaw quality [creamy white

with contrasting tip] 16-20".  The helpful staff will select the horn which

most closely meets your stated desires.  Their phone is:(612)-424-2500

weekdays 8:00AM-5:00PM, Sat. 9:30AM-1:00PM CST.  No minimum order, plastic

accepted and only actual shipping charge tacked on.  I LOVE this place!

Oh, their address is:  Track of the Wolf

                       Box 6

                       Osseo, MN 55369-0006

In service,

Thorstein          m.k.a.   Wayne S.    

 

 

From: uwaylander at aol.com (UWaylander)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: HORN: Another Question

Date: 4 Sep 1995 22:16:43 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

In response to "What do you coat the inside with"? - I don't coat them.

My system consists of sanding as deeply into the lip of the horn as

possible.  Then I pack it with baking soda and allow it to set for several

days.  This gets rid of the noxious odour.  Next, I remove half of the

powder and add vinager.  Chemestry 101, middle ages style. The

effervesence scrubs the inside all the way down.  Then, You cure the

sucker.  White wine (red will discolour it) for three days, to impart a

pleasant winey smell.  Beer if that is your wont.  I've found that the wax

and wax-like liners tend to melt and often add a subtle flavour of their

own.  We all try to stay period, but my morning coffee is much more

acceptable out of a waxless horn than a styro McDonald's cup (the Scotts

always made the best potables!)  Hope this helped.

 

                              Your's in service,

                                       Ullam

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Horn stuff.

Date: 1 Sep 1995 11:43:16 -0500

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

<david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)>

>Subject:Re: HORN: Another answer

>Nothing. It's solid, water resistent unless boiled, alcohol resistent,

>etc.

 

This reminded me.  In case I haven't mentioned it, I spent a while

soaking horn in various fruit juices, vinegars, and so forth, to test

the belief that vinegar will dissolve the horn (a major reason for coating

them, it seems).  I have found nothing to support this belief.  Has anyone

any first hand knowledge that *does* support this legend?

 

I am currently trying an experiment based on a description I've run across

for delaminating horn, and will report back when that experiment is concluded.

Unfortunately, it requires soaking the horn for a month in water, so it's

a bit time consuming.

 

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"    University of Northkeep

-- St. Dunstan                  Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                        (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Delaminating Horn

Date: 12 Sep 1995 13:54:43 -0500

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

A month ago, I began an experiment on horn based on material I had

found in:

 

Hardwick, P. 1981. Discovering Horn. (Guilford: Lutterworth)

Hughes, G.B. 1953. Living Crafts (London: Lutterworth)

MacGregor, Arthur M.  Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn, the technology of

     skeletal materials since the Roman Period.  London &

     Sydney/Totawa NJ:  Croom Helm/Barnes and Noble, 1985).

 

on delaminating horn.  Most of the craft sources simply suggest

that you file, sand, or scrape with a sharp knife or broken glass

until the piece you have is the thickness you want.  To my mind,

this is a somewhat wasteful process (not to manage hard on my

sinuses, what with all that horn dust, although I have gotten used

to the smell... ).

 

MacGregor and Hughes both discuss extensive soaking of the horn

(although I'm fairly certain that MacGregor is simply reporting

information found in Hughes) prior to both simple moulding and to

delaminating.  The material on delaminating, for example to make

Lanthorn leaves (Horn lantern panes), says to soak the horn for a

month seemed a little extreme, but I figured what the heck.  I

found a pitcher, then took a horn, cut off the solid bit and cut it

down that side so that I had a cylinder of horn with cross section

of:  

                  **************

                **              **

              *                   *

              *                   *

              *                   =

              *                   *

              *                   *

               **               **

                 ***************

 

I dropped the horn in the pitcher and did my best to forget about

it.  I changed the water occasionally, because it gradually began

to stink (I suspect that keeping the same water might even help the

process, but I'll need a better container first). Moreover the

horn will begin to REEK, but only if you put your nose up to it.

 

After a month, I dropped the horn in a pot of water to boil for two

hours.  The recipe called for a copper pot, but I don't have one,

although I did drop a length of copper wire in to minimize the

variables (chemistry wise).  A copper pot might have given a better

overall evenness of heating to the horn.

 

After two hours I removed it, and tried to flex it.  It took some

strength, but eventually I was able to "unroll" the horn, at which

point, the connective material between the horn, apparently

weakened by the month long emersion, and perhaps having absorbed

enough of the water to swell with the heat of the boiling, started

to give way, breaking open enough to stick a knife into to "lift

the layers apart.  When necessary, I would re-introduce the horn to

the boiling water, to help soften them up again.

 

The flattened and split sections went into my presses, to be

pressed together until they cooled, and they worked better than I'd

hoped.  After they cooled and hardened again. They were still as

hard as they had been (for the most), and ready for cleaning and

working into flat things.

 

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"    University of Northkeep

-- St. Dunstan                  Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                        (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)

Subject: Re: Delaminating Horn

Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:02:29 GMT

Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div.

 

Damn fine job. I'm currently experimenting with putting handles and stands

on Drinking Horns. This little experiment of yours really interests me.

1) What are you using for a press?

2) Does the Horn snap when you're trying to flatten it?

3) I've heard that adding a bit of vinegar to the water soak helps thing along.

4) What did you use to polish it? I use 150 Grit sand paper, stepping down to

    220 Grit for the final. Then, I use a cloth wheel on my drill press and

    Polishing Compound. Judging from what little I've done to date, the

    horn should be fairly translucent. How thick are you using?

5) Is there a quicker way? I do inlay. I might take a shot with horn.

 

Bruno vonBrunner

Woods Crafter/Merchant

An Tir

mka: Doug Brunner

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: Delaminating horn

Date: 13 Sep 1995 09:17:42 -0500

Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

 

  Bruno vonBrunner<Doug Brunner <doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com>>

  >Damn fine job. I'm currently experimenting with putting handles and stands

  >on Drinking Horns. This little experiment of yours really interests me.

  

  Why thank you.  Something you may find interesting, the "Buckskinning II"

  book has a pattern for a horn mug with a built-in handle.  Essentially, you

  cut the horn almost in half, leaving a 1" or so wide "Tongue"

  

     **************************************************************

     *                         *****************************/        

     *                         *

     *                         *

     *                         *

     *                         *

     *               **********

     ****************

  

  After softening it, bend the tongue back and attach it to the bottom to

  form the handle.  Insert a wooden plug into the large end to make the

  "bottom".

  

  Well, I thought it looked amusing :)

  

  >1) What are you using for a press?

  

  Since finding steel plates around here is a bit of trouble, until I can get

  to it, I've been using two pieces of oak, with a long bolt at each corner,

  and the occasional c-clamp for better pressure where needed.

  

  >2) Does the Horn snap when you're trying to flatten it?

  

  Sometimes.  Hopefully, the boiling in water has softened it enough though

  that it shouldn't.  The soaking for a month to delaminate it, however, will

  reveal any weak spots though.

  

  >3) I've heard that adding a bit of vinegar to the water soak helps thing

  >along.

  

  I've heard this as a possibility, but have never been totally certain

  regarding the whole "acidic effects on horn" thing (often declared as a

  reason for not drinking acidic things from unlined horn cups).  A month ago

  I did some soaking of horn in such things as vinegar and orange juice and

  found no noticable effects on the horn.  When I performed that experiment

  I reported it here and asked if anyone had had actual personal experience

  of having their drinking horns having a bad reaction to acidic liquids,

  and have heard nothing.  I'm starting to suspect that this may be a

  "re-creation legend", but am not absolutely positive either way.

  

  (BTW, again, thanks to Balderik for reminding me that Horn is hair, and that

  acids have little effect when it comes to "de-hairing" hides)

  

  >4) What did you use to polish it? I use 150 Grit sand paper, stepping down to

  >    220 Grit for the final. Then, I use a cloth wheel on my drill press and

  >    Polishing Compound. Judging from what little I've done to date, the

  >    horn should be fairly translucent. How thick are you using?

  

  I'm trying to get it down to 1-2 actual layers as an ideal (and am still

  not adept at that.  When it comes to polishing horn, I use "Medium" weight

  woodworking sandpaper, then "Fine" and "Very Fine", THEN I burnish it

  with a piece of antler.

  

  As I understand it (not having gotten that far) for the final polishing

  step of Lanthorn panes, you rub it down with wood ashes, something else,

  and using just your bare hand.

  

  >5) Is there a quicker way? I do inlay. I might take a shot with horn.

  

  Don't soak it for a month.  Just boil it for two hours or so, flatten it

  in the press and let it cool.  If it's not flat enough, stick it back

  in the press, place it in the oven at 300-325 for not more than 15-20

  minutes, take it out, tighten it down some more, and let it cool off.

  

  A variation on this seems to be: heat up your press to 350, take it out of

  the oven, put the previously flattened horn in it, tighten it has hard as

  you can get it, and let it cool.  Since I'm a little adverse to working

  with 350 degree metals and clamps (having alreadly started developing a

  lovely pattern of burn scars from being stupid doing this (Wear long

  sleaved shirts, even if it IS Oklahoma in the summer time in a hot

  kitchen)), I haven't tried this last one.  It is, I'm led to believe,

  though, the major way of making things like spoons.

  

  Oh, a note.  Another use for the delaminated horn is to back your bows

  with (should such be your inclination).

  

  --------------------------------------

  <Daveed<JkrissW <jkrissw at aol.com>>>

  >Interesting...  How thick are the flattened sections?  Thick enough to use

  >as lamellae or scales?  The ancient Scythians sometimes used horn

  >thusly...

  

  If you don't soak them for a month, they will be as thick as the horn was

  initially.  If you do, they'll start the delaminating process and will get

  as thin as you have the patience to make them.

  

  If you just flatten them, they should make very good scales.

  

  "Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

    Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"   University of Northkeep

   -- St. Dunstan                Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                        (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

  

 

From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: drinking horns

Date: 23 Jan 1996 20:45:06 GMT

Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div.

 

In article <4e2u2m$fme at terrazzo.lm.com>, mjc at telerama.lm.com (Monica Cellio) says:

>

>>Can someone please help me with info on what the material is, which is

>>used in the coating of those marvelously decorated drinking horns I

>>have seen at events? I have been told it is some kind of plastic resin,

>>and I wonder:

>

>Do you mean inside or outside?  On the inside, you can use beeswax (if

>you're not going to drink anything hot) or polyeurothene.  On the outside,

>you can polish it with jeweler's rouge, which comes in small cakes (just

>rub it in).

>

>Ellisif

 

    I have to break into this one, sorry. DO NOT USE POLY ON THE INSIDE OF THE HORNS!!! Sorry about the volume. Poly will break down under alcohol and heat. Mead and washing will eventually break Poly down, leaving a nasty after taste and possibly making you a bit ill.  I make horns and I use an FDA approved, Food Grade Epoxy. The manufacturer is Torginal, out of Wisconsin. It's a bit expensive ($35/half gal), but I feel that the peace of mind is worth it. The stuff is rated from 0deg to 185deg, without breaking down. It can also handle acids (Orange Juice) and bases (Scotch).  And, for the record, I also make

coffe horns. Scalding hot coffee is about 180degF.

 

    I use Auto Polishing Compound on the outside of mine, after a lot of sanding. I have a cloth buffing wheel that fits into my drill press. After I have them polished, I also seal the outside. I normally build a wooden stand into the horn. This is also coated with the Epoxy. Then, I wrap a leather grip around the middle and secure it with brass screws, into the wooden base.  One of the advantages of the epoxy is that it seals any leaks.

 

    Many people use the bees wax on the horns. Drawbacks? The wax will go rancid, after a bit. It also comes out if you have something warm, like mulled wine. However, they're pretty easy to deal with. Put the Horn in warm water (Hot water will soften the horn) and the wax will wash out. Then, simply recoat it. Advantages? Fairly inexpensive, compared to the epoxy. It also has a subtle, sweet flavor that I'm told adds to the wine. Unfortunately, that means that it's coming out of the horn, too.

 

    But, I've really got to stress that furniture or wood coatings like Poly, Varnish and shellac are NOT suitable for food containers. And, the horn should be coated with something. The horn will hold the flavor of the last thing in it, if it's not. And, it gets to be a real bear to clean. A little too long and what

the horn has absorbed will start to turn, as well as the horn itself.

 

Bruno vonBrunner

Woods Crafter/Merchant

An Tir

mka: Doug Brunner, owner

Brunner's Woods and Crafts

Lebanon, Oregon

 

 

From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: sealing epoxies for drinking horns - help?

Date: 8 Apr 1996 21:13:33 GMT

Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div.

 

Food Safe Epoxy:

 

Torginal, Inc.

710 Forest Ave.

Cheboygan Falls, Wi.   53085

(800) 558-7596

 

I also make Drinking Horns and this is what I use. If you're at Whitman in

Washington, I believe that there's a dustributor somewhere around Vancouver, Wa.

 

DB

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: Sealing epoxies for drinking horns - help?

Date: 9 Apr 1996 18:18:07 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

<Cyrillis Desidarius <peterscc at whitman.edu (Chris Petersen)>

>I purchased myself a horn and polished it up all nice. then I found out

>that any food safe epoxy is nearly impossible to find. What are the most

>common methods of sealing horns and how would I go about getting ahold of

>some.  thanks.

 

After an extensive search of the historically available sources (which, I admit

are pretty sparse), the most common method of sealing drinking horns was to

take them and polish them up, clean them out, then drink out of them.

No wax, no polyurethane, no epoxy.  It's not bad for you, as far as I can

determine, outside Skaw-legends.

 

If you insist on sealing them, however, I would suggest a form of polyurethane

called Envirotex, or envirotex-lite.  They are reasonably easy to use, and

are food safe.

 

"Fides res non pecunniae,         Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

sed temporis"                    University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude

-- Unknown Recreator             Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                                  (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: Sealing epoxies for drinking horns - help?

Date: 11 Apr 1996 13:14:59 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

<gregwr at aol.com (Greg Wr)>

>I have it on good authority from Master Beowulf Gordon that it is indeed

>bad for you to drink out of unprotected horn. Master Beowulf who is a bone

>carver advised me that any time you work with bone or horn to protect

>yourself from the dust especially when sanding...

 

Master Gordon is most certainly correct when suggesting that you protect

yourself from breathing in bone and horn dust, or for that matter, any

other kinds of light dust, since it can do you harm.

 

As for the other, it is my opinion, based on study and experimentation

that this is an urban legend (one that I, myself, was caught up by not

too long ago).  It is likely prompted by the fact that when you drink

from unprotected horn, it flavors the drink (of course, so does drinking

from a can...)

 

People have been drinking alcohol, fruit juices, and so forth from horn

for centuries, not to mention eating with horn flatwear, etc, and have

had no more problems caused by it than were caused by the alcohol they

were drinking in the first place.

 

However, if you choose to line your horns, that *is* your business.

 

"Fides res non pecunniae,         Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

sed temporis"                    University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude

-- Unknown Recreator             Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                                  (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: moireasdac at aol.com (Moireasdac)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Ink Wells and Pencases?

Date: 14 Jul 1996 18:21:31 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

   I am a horner, if anyone really wants to know how to thread a horn, and

the proper way to prepare a horn prior to the threading etc. I will be

happy to help them out. Beware though processing a horn the first time or

two will take several hours. The next few do go quickly, after you learn

the skills.

   A few tips though, scrap do not sand or buff the horn smooth, neither

work right or when you do get it smooth, results in the wrong looking

finish. Scap, single edge razorblades work fine if you don't have small

cabinet scrapers. For final polishing use loose grit and a scrap of

leather with water as a carrier. Work slowly and with the grain.

  For canteens, cups and inkwells and inkhorns use pitch or beeswax as a

liner, pitch is best and use except for canteens and cups softwoods unless

the period piece used hardwood.

  To insert the end plugs heat the horn in an oven at 300 degrees coat the

plug and insert it. Tamp it in tightly and drill and insert plugs (round

toothpicks work great) fill any voids with beeswax or pitch.

  If you all need to know how to tread let me know. I will tell you the

basics just be sure to use a leather washer to keep the ink in and off

your alls cloathing.

Kirk

 

 

From: Moireasdac at aol.com

To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com

Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:11:51 -0400

Subject: Re: Ink Wells and Pencases?

 

Sorry I typed ahead of myself. You thread the horn and then you match the

threads to the tap and matching dies. The small holes and toothpicks go for

the bottom plug, in the case of a cup or a inkwell or powderhorn. The screw

tip is at the top the plug, for the bottom is held by pegs and sealed to

prevent leakage similar possible problems.

 

If you have any more questions please let me know.

 

Kirk

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: Ink Wells and Pencases?

Date: 14 Jul 1996 21:17:14 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

<moireasdac at aol.com (Moireasdac)>

>I am a horner, if anyone really wants to know how to thread a horn, and

>the proper way to prepare a horn prior to the treading ect. I will be

>happy to help them out....

 

I would be curious to hear any of your thoughts on the matter.

 

I *do* have a question though...

 

>For canteens, cups and inkwells and inkhorns use pitch or beeswax as a

>liner, pitch is best and use except for canteens and cups softwoods unless

>the period piece used hardwood.

 

Why?  As far as I can tell, horn drinking vessels weren't lined

historically, and, since horn is water tight, in and of itself, there is

really no need to keep fluids from leaking through it.  I *can* see lining

seams, say, where bases are set, if you use any other method for setting

them other than the "heat and stretch" method you describe, since these

might not be a tight seal.  With your method, the horn should stretch

sufficiently that it will accept a plug slightly large than the end (when

cool), and that the horn will shrink back around the plug sealing it off.

The few occasions where horn cups I have made with such plugs haven't been

sealed properly were because of flaws in my cutting out the plug.

 

From the research I've done on this topic, which may not be as extensive as

yours, this thing about sealing horn drinking vessels with pitch, wax, or

even polyurethane is pretty much restricted to the SCA.

 

"Fides res non pecunniae,         Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

sed temporis"                    University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude

-- Unknown Recreator             Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                                  (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: bwc at proaxis.com (Doug Brunner)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Drinking horns to be made.

Date: 2 Mar 1997 20:10:52 GMT

Organization: Brunner's Woods and Crafts

 

hbrtv003 at huey.csun.edu says...

>        A friend of mine had obtained a horn that she wishes to make into

>a drinking horn. However, I don't have a viking persona and haven't the

>slightest idea how to prepare a horn so that it will be safe to drink

>from. Any Ideas\advice or rude comments?  Any info would be appreciated.

>

>Miro Martalis

 

        I make them. Or, I gues I should say MADE them. We're closing up

shop. Anyway**First of all, how raw is this horn? If it still has meat in it,

you've got some work ahead of you. It needs to be cleaned. If it's already

cleaned, on to the next step. I've worked with raw horn and the rough sanded

stuff from Tandy. It's about the same process. I have a series of Sanding

Drums I use on my Drill Press.  I start out fairly coarse and work my way down

to Buffing Compound. I've found that a final sanding of 220Grit sand paper

will take the last of the fine scratches out of the horn. More than that,

you're wasting your time. Go straight to the buffing compound.(IMHO)I wrap

mine with Brass, but the mouth can be left plain. Just be sure to sand it down

to a smooth, rounded edge. Even though it's just horn, it can still leave a

fairly respectable gash across your lip.

 

        They can be decorated as you wish. If you paint something, I suggest

using an oil based paint. Lates will peel and fade. Remember that horn is just

a horse's fingernail. It's about the same material.

 

        Here's where some of the disagreements come up. Many people use

Varnish, Enamel or Polyurathane to coat a horn. All of these will break down

under use. All of these are toxic to some degree. They can be used to coat the

outside only!! For a safe horn you have to use something that's food safe.

I've been using a special Epoxy. But, it doesn't com ein small amounts and

it's fairly expensive. You might try some of the Hobby/Crafts shops for a food

safe coating. Many people just use Bee's Wax. You just have to heat up the

horn(hot water?) and clean out the wax occasionally. Then just recoat it. The

other limiter is that you can't have a lot of hot drinks in the horn as you

can using an epoxy. Your option.

 

        Take a look at my WEB Pages. You might get a couple of ideas. And have

fun. I've enjoyed working with horn.

 

Doug B.

http://www.proaxis.com/~bwc

 

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:37:24 -0600

From: Cynthia Craig <craigc at mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>

To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com (Mark S. Harris)

Subject: Re: Drinking horns to be made.

 

>         A friend of mine had obtained a horn that she wishes to make into

> a drinking horn. However, I don't have a viking persona and haven't the

> slightest idea how to prepare a horn so that it will be safe to drink

> from. Any Ideas\advice or rude comments?  Any info would be appreciated.

 

Drinking horns aren't just for Vikings any more. :)

 

Many of the early cultures used horns to drink from. There are stories

and references of the Celts, Angles, Saxons, Anglo-Saxons, Germanic, and

many many more!  Drinking horns weren't just horn either, there are

vessels remaining that are wood and glass in horn shape. If you would

like more information about drinking horns, you can email me and I will be

glad to send you a copy of my bibliography on drinking horns.

 

Akatyariena of the Winds

 

 

From: redjack at mindspring.com (Richard A Lewis)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Q: Horn- 'building'...?

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 22:11:19 GMT

 

"Ingendahl" <ingendahl at interregio.de> wrote:

 

>I'm a new member of SCA, and I've got a real big question:

 

>On our attic, there are lying since many years two horns of a

>'water-buffalo'. Unfortunately they are not _my_ horns, but my father's

>horns ;-)

>I asked him to present them to me, so that I can build two

>master-sized-drinking-horns. He told me, that the the horns are a gift of a

>friend, who died a day later (after presentening).

 

>Therefore, he only wants to lend me the horns, and therefore I'm afraid,

>that I don't make any mistakes in the working on the 'transformation'.

 

>Actually, I don't know, how to make it, and I don't know, too, if there is

>the old bone inside or not.

 

>Did anybody worked such a drinking-horn before (I saw only one of this size

>several years ago) and can tell me, how to do and what problems I have to

>face?

 

>In Your answer, you don't have to write in easy-english, because my

>reading-english is much, much, _much_ more better than my written english.

 

>       FeliX                           aka Felicitas Ingendahl

 

Felix,

 

DONT use the good horns as your first project!!!!  Youll mess them up,

guaranteed!  Find a few cheap ones to practice on first!

 

My drinking horn tools consist of a dremel moto tool and several home

made tools, as well as a set of needle files and lots of sand paper.

 

I use the moto tool with a wood carving tip (1/8th inch diam barrel

cutter, 1/4 inch long) and begin the hollowing out process with it.

be careful not to get to close to the sides of the horn or you will

cut thru.  Leave a bit thicker wall than you want, and use sand paper

to thin it out later.

 

I then use longer shafted carving tips to continue hollowing it out

deeper......I made them by welding standard dremel bits to steel

welding rod.  Eventually you`ll get to a point where you cant go any

deeper without cutting thru the horn as it approaches the tip, so

finish off the bottom inside in a smooth curve shape.

 

My most used hand tool is a weird type of knife I made myself.  It has

a blade about a inch long on a shaft of 1/4 inch steel rod....its

about 8 inches long.  The blade is round tipped and the blade is bent

into a gentle curve shape.  Using this tool, I can slowely carve the

inside of the horn.

 

Once I get enough room to fit my fingers in, I usually start sanding

it out with some pretty coarse paper to remove any high spots and even

the inside surface out.  Go to finer grades of paper as you get the

walls thinned.  For the deeper parts, use a stick with a rounded tip

that you have glued sandpaper to.

 

For the edges of the horn, use a file that is long enough to reach

completely across it and file it flat...filing two sides at one time.

Move in a circle and get the edge even, then sand paper it to a nice

round lip.

 

I like smooth and polished outsides, so I sand and polish the hell out

of them.

 

One point.....Ive never had any problems with a smell or a taste being

left in the horn once its sanded and buffed inside and out.  Ive never

had to coat them with anything, but I do soak them in a 1/4th bleach

solution over night before I ever use them for drinking.

 

American breeds of bovines usually seem to grow horns that are softer

and pithy on the insides.....those are the ones I use for drinking

horns.  Water buffalo and asiatic breeds of bovines in my experience

produce more solid horn.....I use those for hilts for knives and

daggers I make.

 

If you have access to a machine shop and are pretty good with power

tools.....

 

I have twice gotten creative and decided to cut the horns into 1 inch

lengths.  Just take a table saw and place the wide end of the horn

against the fence....and cut it.  I then epoxied the inch thick pieces

of horn onto wood stock and used my lathe and turned them inside and

outside.  Keeping em epoxied to the wood was a prob after they were

hollowed out, so try pressure slipping them over some wood stock of

the right diam to finish the outside.

 

I then bought some brass T stock at the hobby shop that was local to

me and soldered a ring of this stuff the right diam to fit the first

hollow ring of horn back onto the second length.

 

Hollow out each inch thick slice of horn and then fit them back

together with the brass to make a complete horn......the brass on the

outside makes nice accents.  A brass rim around the lip will make the

cup last forever.

 

Using the horns for drinking in past times, they usually had holes cut

into the tables to hold the horns.  Ive used deer antlers to craft

holders for them since not many ppl want to cut holes in their tables,

and they look damned good.

 

Whatever way you decide.....GO SLOW and take your time!!!!!  Practice

on a few cheap horns til you feel good enough to risk the valuable

ones.

 

Just me rambling while the pain medication takes effect :(

 

Richard McLlewyn   loving husband of the most fair Lady Kris  :)

 

 

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:32:39 -0500

From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com>

Subject: RE: SC - cleaning horns

 

>>Charles McCN recommended cleaning horn out with ants<g>.

 

For those less patient, or who get the ones from Tandy that don't have any

"meat" left in them but are worried about what else might be down in

there... I've cleaned my last couple with efferdent tablets, which works

great.  They foam like crazy and are designed to remove organic gunk.

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:50:38 -0700

From: "G. Shaver" <shaverman at mindspring.com>

To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Re: wooden mugs

 

From: Norma Winter

>Can anyone tell mewhat ca be used to coat the inside of a handmade wooden

drinking mug?

>

>Sine

 

The period answer is Brewer's Pitch, a "black rubbery stuff" which is hard

to find, must be heated to a very high (i.e. above 212 degrees and therefore

potentially "dangerous") temperature, and will leave the inside of your mug

a lovely shade of asphalt black.  But after curing is tasteless, impervious

to boiling water, and will seal any cracks or imperfections.  This is also

the preferred sealant for leather workers who require a slightly flexible

sealant in their leather cups and bottles.  You melt the black, sticky pitch

(yes, it is not a euphomism) in a pot or can (which you will then resign to

"pitching", one way or another), pour the HOT liquid in the container, roll

it around once to coat all surfaces, and then pour back out.  Once the

leftover cools, it can be stored 'til next time.

 

    Several modern hi-tech alternatives are available, in the form of

acrylic resins.  I have heard people having good luck with West Systems 2

part epoxy resin, which I will swear by for it's holding power, but have

never tried to drink out of afterward.   A long curing period would be

recomended for serving ware, but once cured, such plastics tend to be inert

(read "tasteless"), and clear to allow the woodgrain inside the mug to be

appreciated.  This is the preferred (non-period) sealant for drinking horns,

as it is tough and resiliant, actually strengthening the horn itself, and is

clear to allow the transluscent quality that adds to a horn's character.

 

    Beeswax or oils (olive, etc) can be used, but with obvious drawbacks.

Beeswax will melt with heat.  Some mugs (esp solid carved ones) probably

whouldn't be used with hot liquids anyway- stave mugs will flex slightly and

are less likely to crack with high temperatures.  Oils will wear off, and

constant re-oiling well BEFORE usage (to allow time to soak in), is often

wearisome.  And offer no crack-sealing potential. Likewise, seeing little

oilslicks in your coffee can be unappealing if over-oiled. But it's period,

and quite effective, if not as long term as the first two methods.  And

works great for teak bowls, plates, and other food platters where a little

olive oil will never be noticed.

 

    Always hand wash your mug and other wooden items, and do not leave them

soaking, unless you view ithem as short term disposable, in which case the

dishwasher will be fine for the season or two that they last.  (And sure,

there are unexpected exceptions, but I don't like to bet on the exception,

rather than the rule.)

 

    YiS

        Gregoire

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:17:36 -0700 (PDT)

From: Tena Keefe <tfk31 at yahoo.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Epoxy warning and wooden mugs

 

--- "G. Shaver" <shaverman at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Several modern hi-tech alternatives are available, in the form of

> acrylic resins.  I have heard people having good luck with West Systems 2

> part epoxy resin, which I will swear by for it's holding power, but have

> never tried to drink out of afterward.

>

>         Gregoire

 

Please please do not apply either West or East system epoxy products to

any object which will contain food or drink. The result can be very

dangerous, even after total cure. My company works with the stuff, and

we've had a few serious health scares with cured epoxy causing severe

gastro-intestinal distress.

 

Constance

 

 

From: gunnora at my-deja.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Antlers, horns etc...

Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:49:45 GMT

 

Master Atar <jhrisoulas at aol.com> wrote:

> Horn being one.  This stuff was the "medieval man's plastic" as it

> was moldable to an extent using either heat or reagents (or both) and

> made great spoons and combs (Note:.for many, many years

> pharmicological spoons used in compounding were made from horn as it

> was pretty much "non stick").

 

For those who want more help with horn, in period a craftsman called a

horner actually took the nasty dead cow parts, cut them, heated them,

and flattened them into plates that other craftsmen then used.

 

There is still one of the medieval horners in operation.  I have a

contact who can get the finished plates for you, including lanthorn

(thin white horn suitable for making window coverings or lanters).

 

::GUNNORA::

 

 

From: gunnora at my-deja.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Antlers, horns etc...

Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:55:48 GMT

 

tigranes at epix.net wrote:

> Judging from the types of animals originally mentioned, I'd guess you

> probably have all antlers.  Antler is great for knife handles,

> buttons and such, but I don't think it would be suitable for spoons.

 

Depends on the antler, and on the spoon.  I've found scholarly articles

on both Anglo-Saxon and Viking antler spoons, specifically red deer.

 

Two articles that I happen to have the citations for handy include:

 

Bertelson, Reidar. "Decorated spoons of reindeer antler in Norwegian

urban and rural context." Archaeology and the Urban Economy:

Festschrift toAsbjorn E. Herteig. Arkeologiske Skrifter 5. eds. Siri

Myrvold et al. Bergen: Historisk Museum Universitet i Bergen. 1989. pp.

245-254.

 

Hiruluoto, Anna-Liisa. "A bone spoon from Pirkkala." Iskos 9 (1990)

pp.87-91.

 

::GUNNORA::

 

Gunnora Hallakarva, OL

 

 

From: gunnora at my-deja.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Horn Sources

Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:01:33 GMT

 

"Mariann" <mariann at uwm.edu> wrote:

> I am looking for either ram's horn or water buffalo horn about 15

> inches long.  Does anyone know of a good source for this material?

 

Someone suggested using a shofar -- I have to note that if it is being

sold as a musical instrument, it will cost a LOT more than the raw

material.

 

The best place to go for sundry dead animal parts is:

 

Moscow Hide and Fur

http://www.hideandfur.com

 

Specifically, you can find antler and horn at:

http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/Antlers.html

 

::GUNNORA::

 

 

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:01:27 MST

From: Darius and Monica <dmmerlick at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: ANST - horns

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

 

STDRLC13 wrote:

> Does anybody know where I can get cow  horns, preferably already

> de-gunked but not sanded,  to carve?  My source dried up and I really

> really need at least three more medium sized horns to finish the carving

> projects that I've got "on the board"  right now. -Isabeau de Merricoeur

 

I have recieved some pretty good raw materiials for this type of work

from "Moscow Hide and Fur" in Moscow, Idaho. their web page is

http://www.hideandfur.com/

 

HL Darius of the Bells

 

 

Subject: ANST - Re: ansteorra V2 #99

Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:03:50 MST

From: gunnora at realtime.net

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org (ansteorra)

 

> Does anybody know where I can get cow horns, preferably

> already de-gunked but not sanded, to carve

 

Aside from Tandy, try Moscow Dead Animal Bits (http://www.hideandfur.com)

--

they reliably have horn and antler in various grades.

 

::GUNNORA::

 

 

Subject: RE: ANST - horns

Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:16:23 MST

From: "Connie Carroll" <Connie.Bunny at worldnet.att.net>

To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>

 

Hello, here are the URLs I had on the subject.

 

Kassandra

 

All I can say about this article is wow!!!! Everything you would want to know about working bone or horn in one place in an easy to read and follow article with sources listed at the end!!!! I only wish there were more resources like this on the net.  Even if you have no desire to work horn or bone yourself this is a very informative article that will give you an idea of how horn was used and worked in period.

 

Arundel's site http://www.dnaco.net/~arundel

Michael Labbe-Webb's Horn/Bone Article

http://www.dnaco.net/~arundel/bone_pamplet4.htm

 

Arundels website as a whole is a veritable treasure trove of information and links to other sites.  Be sure to check it out if you haven't done so before.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/2213.html

 

this one has "lots" of different kinds and sizes of horns..not limited to cows/

 

Claw, Antler and Hide Company - (605) 673-4345

http://www.solarwinds.com/antlers

 

has wholesale antlers

Http://www.txlonghorns.com/

 

Rough horns, Unpolished

8" to 14"  $8.00/pr

15" to 20" $15.00/pr

20" to 28" $39.00/pr

28" to 35" $72.00/pr

$7.50 S&H/pr

Item #22

 

http://www.kyleatherandhide.com/acces.html

Our Cow horns are unfinished and  different sizes.

$5.00 ea.

 

http://home.att.net/~thepowdermag/home.htm#0

Cow horns large $12 each.

 

 

Subject: Re: BG - HORNS!

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:43:07 MST

From: RowenaBBG at aol.com

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

 

Try one of these web pages.

http://www.einsteins-emporium.com/life/hides/lh000.htm

http://www.hideandfur.com/

 

Look for the sections on horns.

 

Rowena

 

 

To: Norsefolk at egroups.com

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:18:49 -0000

From: gunnora at realtime.net

Subject: Re: working with horn

 

> i want to make a new helm and use horn(over metal) in the plate

> areas. ive seen a little about working horn ...

> but nothing about how long to boil the horn(to make it workable)

> or how long to press it before it takes its new shape.

 

Hlvgrm,

 

First off, horn over metal is going to react pretty much like plastic

plates over metal would -- be prepared to replace them often as they

will crack.  You'll be putting them between an anvil (the helm) and a

hammer (the sword).

 

I suggest looking at:

 

Arthur MacGregor. Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn: the Technology of

Skeletal Materials Since the Roman Period. Totowa: Barnes & Noble.

1985. ISBN 0-389-20531-1 (out of print)

 

I quote a bit of the horn-working notes from MacGregor in a short

discussion of making horn spoons, available in Stefan's Florilegium

at http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/Horn-Spoons-art.html

 

In theory you don't boil horn.  You soak it, and sometimes boil it

briefly as a pretreatment. Then to shape it you use heating over an

open flame, or pressing between hot plates.  Horn, as you will

recall, is like hair structurally (and smells like it too, when you

burn it, yech!)  And for the same reasons that curling irons work on

hair heat reshapes horn.

 

I have boiled small horn plates for making spoons, since this is

easier to control and less likely to scorch.  It takes a *lot* longer

than you think (three hours on the average for a spoon), while

working over open heat is a lot quicker and gets better results after

a little practice.

 

As for "how long to press", as soon as the stuff cools down it's set.

 

This isn't an exact art, either.  How thick is the horn (thicker

pieces being harder to shape than very thin ones)?  What color (white

is often softer/more flexible)?  What species (cow horn being softer

than buffalo or water oxen)?  etc.  

 

Melanie Wilson had access to one of the last surviving medieval

horners and could get pre-flattened plates of horn, which I'd tend to

think would make your job somewhat easier.  You might want to talk to

her about it...

 

::GUNNORA::

 

 

To: Norsefolk at egroups.com

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:29:37 -0600

From: jorunn at swbell.net

Subject: Re: working with horn

 

There's some info on Stephens' Florilegium at

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/horn-msg.html

 

A whole bunch of stuff at I. Marc Carlson's site at

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/horn/hornhome.html

 

More stuff at

http://www.dnaco.net/~arundel/bone_pamplet4.htm

 

There's enough info on these sites to give you a good idea of where to

start.

 

Jorunn

 

 

From: sherman t tank <itchyfetish at yahoo.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Trolling for information

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:13:29 +1100

 

Heather Senkler wrote:

> How many ways are there to finish a drinking horn?

>

> I have received two horns, hollowed, sanded, and in need of finishing.

> Tips or suggestions on how to make them drinkable, and for affixing

> fittings and decorations would be very appreciated.

>

> (I have heard of beeswax and food-grade shellac? But not how to use them.)

>

>         Ekatarina, in An Tir

 

for polishing a horn:

take a smooth glass object, a glass will do, and grip the horn well, rub the

glass on the horn in strokes running with the grain, this will polishit ot a

mirror finish, and no further compounds are required.

of course lining the inside with bees wax is a good idea, itll stop a lot of

sore throats.

 

Glenn

 

 

From: mikea at mikea.ath.cx (Mike Andrews)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Horns?

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:28:35 +0000 (UTC)

 

Robert Uhl <ruhlNO at spam4dv.net> wrote:

> Anyone have a good source for unfinished (but cored &c.) horns?  I recall

> getting one at Estrella for $5 a few years back; hopefully rates haven't

> changed _too_ much.

 

Moscow Hide & Fur, Moscow, IDaho,

 

In particular, <http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/2213.html>;.

--

Mike Andrews        /     Michael Fenwick      Barony of Namron, Ansteorra

mikea at mikea.ath.cx /     Amateur Extra radio operator W5EGO

Tired old music Laurel; webBastard; SCAdian since AS VIII

 

 

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:47:48 -0700

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Drinking horns for kids

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On 9/22/06 3:35 PM, "Ana Valdes" <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:

> In Sweden, where the Vikings hold wild feasts with mead and salt fish,

> kids do their horns today with cow or bullhorns, when playing "live".

> It should be possible to buy them in a slaughterhouse, I assume they

> are sold as "left overs".

> Ana

>

> And the kids can polish them with toothpaste, easy to do and very  

> fun.

 

And a tooth brush?  Or some other tool?

 

I find cattle horns regularly at Tandy Leather/Leather Factor, but their

personnel do not often have any idea what to do with them. I tend to clean

them vigorously with soap and water and a bottle brush, let them dry

thoroughly and then seal them with EnviroTex, a two-part resin used for bar

tops and other food-safe surfaces.

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:58:08 -0800

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sausage Stuffers

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

However, the

only point I can see is that one does not always necessarily know what

chemicals have been used on a horn of unknown provenance. Nor is it

easy to sterilize the horn afterwards to modern standards, since horn

softens in boiling hot water as we all know.

 

I really love the idea of using period implements as much as possible

and a horn looks SO much better than a mere plastic funnel.  If you have

a good horn that you wish to use again for this purpose, I might gently

advise a dip in Enviro-Tex, an excellent two-part resin product, tough

enough for bar tops and clean enough to eat off of.  

 

Selene

 

<the end>



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