cloaks-msg - 1/10/08
Cloaks, cloak pins and clasps.
NOTE: See also the files: AS-Cloaks-art, raingear-msg, headgear-msg, aprons-msg, patterns-msg, cl-academic-msg, jewelry-msg, fasteners-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: trifid at agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Date: 24 May 91 01:02:12 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum
The infamous "Bucknell's" gives as part of the garb of a woman of the 1300s a
"Pelicon" (I can't reproduce the proper "c"), a long cloak with large attached
hood. Page 29 of the 1967 edition of "Evolution of Fashion: Pattern and cut
from 1066 to 1930", Hill and Bucknell. It is a full circle design with small
slits for the use of the arms. I have also seen Ren. scholar's cloaks with
hoods (the antecedents of our mundane professors' gowns) and without. It is
true that earlier medieval cloaks and cowls most probably had detached hoods
(the ones with the long tails) which can be hard to distinguish in illustrations
if the two were of the same material.
I realize "Bucknell's" isn't the end of the controversy...
NicMaoilan
From: cjcannon at ucdavis.edu (1/7/94)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Fabric Questions
Unto Lord Stefan li rous, Greetings:
On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Mark Harris wrote:
> Greetings unto Carol,
>
> In article <Pine.3.89.9401031207.B5093-0100000 at othello.ucdavis.edu> you
write:
> > I got a very kind reply from Beorthwine of Grafham Wood, Midrealm,
referring me to the archaeological
> >literature on the subject and I thank him for it, but it leads me to
> >clarify one of the questions I had. What I intended to ask in regard to
> >cloak pins is whether anyone knows of a SCAdian/mundane merchant who
> >either handmakes (all you smiths out there, for example) or a merchant
> >who sells a fair selection of cloak pins for purchase, since I am not set
> >up to manufacture my own. Thanks for your time!
>
> Have you gotten any answers to your request for sources for cloak clasps?
Two--the one who said 'any major event' and the one with the address,
address below:
Joanna <hosten at nature.berkeley.edu> whose husband is starting up
his own custom jewellery business. His phone #: (510) 674-8544. She
says it would be best to phone him directly and that he's in & out, so
please--leave that message on the voice mail recorder.
> Are you looking for buckle types or the Celtic C shaped pins? The latter
> is fairly easy to make, but won't penetrate and hold up a heavy cloak.
I'd thought the Celtic would be more in line with Katie's 14th century
Irishwoman persona, but perhaps I ought to reconsider, given your
experience with the types.
> I have been using a decorative ladies belt buckle to hold a heavy cloak
> together. Unfortunately, I've just broken my second set. I was hoping that
> someone might have pointed you toward a heavy duty cloak clasp.
According to Joanna, her spouse could make it to order, so all you
should need to do is specify how heavy, or what gauge/whatever, I should
think. Good Luck to You! And thanks for your suggestions/comments. If
I get more addresses for merchants closer to you, or who say they'll be
at Pennsic, I'll let you know.
As always,
Carol
From: data at eden.rutgers.edu (Rosemary Goodheart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks
Date: 14 Nov 1994 17:33:54 -0500
Organization: Rutgers University
Well, there are plenty of places to get cloak patterns. The pattern I use is
from a mundane fabric shop. Look in the costume section of the pattern books
for medieval or Robin Hood patterns, or something like that. It's actually
quite possible to make some nice garb from these patterns if you know how to
make the right alterations. (Of course, some of them are just so cheesy that
there's no hope for them.
If you use a costume cloak pattern, and want a lined cloak, just cut out the
pattern in both the cloak fabric and the lining fabric, then sew them together.
I have been told, however, that you should just sew the sides and neck together
and leave the bottom open, hemming the cloak and lining seperately. This is
because, over time, the fabrics will stretch unevenly, and eventually will
cause a cloak that's seamed together on the bottom to hang funny.
Good luck!!!
-Rosemary
--
Rosemary Goodheart YYY YYY
data at eden.rutgers.edu | |YYYYY| |
at )--->----;----- |_|__n__|_|
From: nataliae at aol.com (Natalia E)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks
Date: 15 Nov 1994 22:45:04 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
There is a Very Easy Very Vogue 7110 pattern for a woman's cloak, which
works perfectly fine for a simple cloak pattern. I made both my lord's
and my own cloak from it and I just learned how to sew this year. Try it
out and you might find it will be just right. Good luck.
Nataliia
From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks
Date: 18 Nov 1994 15:00:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
In article <3m9uVc1w165w at bregeuf.stonemarche.org>,
una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) writes:
I would like any information you can find on when and where capes
(floor length or so) with attached hoods were used in pre-17th cent.
western Europe.
I've got great docs. on thigh-length and shorter cloak/hood combined
(The Picts had a neat one- looks amazingly like a cloaked Kewpie doll) but
nothing from original sources on hooded capes. (No, I don't trust re-drawn
costume books... how could you tell?)
----
Have you looked at the Janet Arnold book? She's got very elaborate designs
for several styles of cloaks. I think the one you're most likely to be
interested in is 1560-80 Crimson Velvet Circular or Compass Cloak.
This is from Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion c1560-1620--a must for any
serious sewer/costumer.
Pattie Rayl
Cynnabar
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Subject: Re: Cloaks
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 07:59:04 GMT
A hooded cloak is shown in C. Willet and Phyllis Cunnington's _Handbook of
English Costume in the Sixteenth Century_. (Page 105) According to
the Cunningtons they were known as Spanish cloaks at that time.
My copy of The Cunnington's _Handbook of English Medieval Costume_
is missing, but as I recall one of the Anglo Saxon ladies is shown wearing
a cloak that is draped over her head. This could be a mistake by the
copyist (the Cunnington's illustrations are good, but not perfect) or it
could be a hood misdrawn by the original artist, or it could be a cloak
worn draped over the head.....
Audelindis de Rheims, OL, OW
From: Wendy Chadwick <wendyc at Mars.mcs.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wet-Weather Cloaks (fabric)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:42:31 -0600 (CST)
Organization: MCSNet Services
On 31 Jan 1995, Erin Kenny GMSI wrote:
(Talking about wool for cloaks)
>
> This is great for most people, but does anyone have good suggestions for
> cloak material for people allergic to wool?
If you want to try synthetics you might try polarfleece as the lining
with supplex or similar outerwear fabric on the outside. I have several
sources if you need it.
Irene von Schmetterling
Wendy Chadwick
wendyc at MCS.COM
From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks/Capes
Date: 7 Feb 1995 17:12:37 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
In article <3h8mq1$8nv at dropit.pgh.net> jtd at news.pgh.net (John T. Dow) writes:
> Although I'm not in the SCA (yet :) I've recently discovered the
>usefulness of a cloak as opposed to a coat for warmth (particularly
>around the house. And stop looking at me as if I'm nuts please. :)
========deletion========
> What I'm wondering about now are closures. (Tying vs. buttoning
>vs. ?????) Anyone have a preferred type? A type you REALLY REALLY
>hate? Anything at all is helpful. (Any other bits of cloak making
>advice would be welcome as well. :) Thanks.
I do not like frogs--they did not age gracefully.
I do not like buttons/button holes.
I do not like ties-- no fun to try to undo when wet and pulled too tight.
I prefer using a Pen-annular Broach.. For my fine weaves I have used a
bodkin to seperate the material and made a small round "buttonhole" on
each side for the pin to use. For my coarse weave plaid I just go betwixt
the threads.
wilelm the smith; who oft teaches a penannular broach class at Pennsic...
From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: wool etc.
Date: 8 Feb 1995 13:57:47 -0500
Organization: The Internet
>> This is great for most people, but does anyone have good suggestions for
>> cloak material for people allergic to wool?
>
>>1. Wool with a lining, and a collar made of the lining fabric.
> Even with a lining, the wool makes me sneeze, especially when wet.
Watch out for lining wool cloaks. (I have a wool cloak, lined, and
I'm allergic to wool as well) The problem is that if your lining is
not thick enough, wool fibers will work their way through the lining.
(Next wool cloak I make is going to be double lined)
>3. Fur (on the inside).
Bleah. Okay, I don't believe in fur. (Leather, yes, because the cows
are raised for reasons other than their "fur" --- leather is a
byproduct of the meat industry) Here's a situation where I can see a
good argument against using a period material, based on a simple,
moral choice. (And before I get flamed, yes, it's _my_ choice, and
I'm not going to enforce it on anyone else)
William the Alchymist
(who's working on an artificial fur-lined cloak, if he can get enough
artificial fur)
From: ldulin at aol.com (LDulin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wool etc.
Date: 9 Feb 1995 10:39:23 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Use thinsulate between layers of cotton. Works great, hangs great.
Lijsbeth
From: callred at carbon.cudenver.edu (Curtis L. Allred)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks/Capes
Date: 11 Feb 1995 14:40:12 -0700
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver
Carla Oexmann (oexmann at convex.com) wrote:
: Another question here : by haunting the local Tandy sales, I managed
: to acquire a large number of rabbit pelt seconds, and decided I would
: use them for a real furlined cloak. I have them all stitched together
: now ( lots of hand sewing using the stitch shown in a leather working
: book ) but am uncertain as to how to attach it to the wool outer part
: of the cape. Basically, I'm afraid that the thin leather of the pelts
: will tear at the shoulders. Is there some way I can support the fur
: lining, or should it just hang independantly ? What about shoulder
: rubs : is there any way to reinforce that ?
: thanks, carla
: Ritual disclaimer : My opinion and mine alone ! Convex, as best I can tell,
: doesn't have opinions, being a corporate entity...
: Carla Oexmann {allegra, sun, harvard, uiucdcs, ctvax}!convex!oexmann
Greetings, Carla! Hugh here.
Might I suggest a variation of what I did once with some Tandy Leather
rabbit pelts. I used them to line some period boots I was making--and after
quite a bit of use, the pelts still are intact.
Get ye some lining fabric (doesn't matter what type). Cut the fabric so
that it conforms to the cloak and pelt lining (sewing involved, most like)
and the use rubber cement to glue the pelt lining to the fabric. Make sure
to apply cement to both the fabric and the pelts. Then go over the whole
thing with some loose sitiches with a thread that blends in with the
rabbit pelts. Stitch this in lines of about a foot apart going vertically
up and down the lining. This will insure that the pelt and fabric will stay
together.
Once this is done, you should be able to attach the combined pelt/
fabric lining to the cloak's outer shell. You might be able to get enough
support from just attaching the lining to the shell along the outer seams.
Good luck--it sounds wonderful!
Hugh of Berwick
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)
Subject: Re: Cloaks/Capes
Organization: the Polyhedron Group
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 19:17:44 GMT
In article <3hepbd$4vg at bach.convex.com>, oexmann at convex.com (Carla
Oexmann) wrote:
> Another question here : by haunting the local Tandy sales, I managed
> to acquire a large number of rabbit pelt seconds, and decided I would
> use them for a real furlined cloak. I have them all stitched together
> now ( lots of hand sewing using the stitch shown in a leather working
> book ) but am uncertain as to how to attach it to the wool outer part
> of the cape. Basically, I'm afraid that the thin leather of the pelts
> will tear at the shoulders. Is there some way I can support the fur
> lining, or should it just hang independantly ? What about shoulder
> rubs : is there any way to reinforce that ?
Well, for what it's worth, here's my thoughts on the matter.
I've seen those Tandy rabbit pelts, and I think your fears for their
structural strength may be justified. The leather is quite thin and soft.
The weight of a cloak-sized sheet of such pelts could possibly damage
them, if supported only on the edges.
I think what -I- would do next is to make an inner shell, following the
same pattern as the outer layer of the cloak, made of lightweight to
medium weight cotton duck. Pre-shrink the inner shell, because it must be
dimensionally stable for this idea to work. Then I'd attach the fur to the
inner shell, both at the edges and at points spaced 6 to 12 inches apart
in a diamond pattern, rather like making a quilt. If carefully done from
the shell side, the support stitching shouldn't show, and it should add a
fair amount of strength. Once the fur is quilted to the shell, attach the
outer shell of the cloak as planned before.
This -should- work, but I give you the caveat that I have not tested such
an assembly, and there may be flaws in this idea that I haven't
considered. I'm working mostly from my own experience with other cloak
linings, and what little I know about the strengths of the materials
involved.
Much luck to you in your endeavor. Please let us know how it turns out,
and what methods you chose to use.
--
Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA --- <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com>
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA --------- (Member # 3016)
Cloak Pattern - (from a WWW site on 5/95)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jah10 at Cornell.edu (Jay Howell)
> >> For quite some time I have sought a pattern (fabric) for making
> >> a hooded cloak. As of yet I have had no luck I have seen some
> >> at different fair that I really liked, most people said they bought
> >> theirs at such-n-sucha place or a friend made it. I would prefer
> >> to make my own (means more). I would very much appreciate help
> >> from anyone who has a pattern or knows how/where to get one.
> >> I am not picky too much abou the style or wether it is open or pull
> >> over.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
> >> Mark Browning
> >> Meb8913 at utarlg.uta.edu
> I made my own cloak as well that was hooded and lined. If I can
> remember, I'll try and find the pattern tonight in all my junk,
> but I *think* it was either a Simplicity or a Butterwick pattern.
> I'll try and email you tomorrow, but > you may wish to e-mail me
> and remind me that I told you I'd get this :)
I have been making cloaks for myself and friends for the past three years
(No mean feat for an amateur tailor), and the pattern I have used has gotten
a very welcome reception.
The Pattern is by Butterick, #9796. It has five (5) different cloak
styles. Four of these seem to fit within the Renaissance era. The fifth
just appears to be a Poncho-style wrap.
I usually make the full-length style cloak, with hood. Depending on the
material used, and I usually make this type of cloak for $50 - $80, which
includes lining and trim. (Now, if it only had something for ties. *sigh*)
If anyone has some ideas on how to put ties into a cloak, which WON'T
strangle you after five minutes, I would like to hear from you.
Jay
----
From: peaches at netcom.com
I have a pattern for a hooded cloak that I have found very nice.
It is a Simplitiy pattern #7016, one size fits all.
It is full length with slits for the arms. I put in a tie at the
neck for closing purposes.
I hope this helps you.
Georgia
----
From: ridley2 at aol.com (Ridley2)
Go to your local sewing store (JoAnn Fabric or Minnesota Fabrics, etc) and
ask for Vogue pattern #7110. It's an easy, unlined hooded cloak.
Ridley
---
From: jburnes at crl.com (Jim Burnes)