leather-msg

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leather-msg - 7/25/04

Working with leather. General info on leather.

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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: dew at psuecl.bitnet (Baron Dur, Dark Horde, SCA)

Date: 15 Apr 90 02:43:08 GMT

Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

jdnicoll at watyew.waterloo.edu (Brian or James) writes:

> Greetings unto the Rialto from Konrad Matthias Jager

> Gentles, I am looking for some information on the preparation of Cour

> Boulli (sp?), also known as hardened leather. I am aware of two methods of

> hardening leather; the first is boiling the leather in wax. I have successfully

> used this method to create a coat of scale armour. The second method I have

> seen mentioned is to boil the leather in water with salt and alum.

> Does anyone in the Rialto have practical experience with the second

> method? If so, do you have any advice vis-a-vis the porpotions of salt and alum

> to water, and the length of time to boil the leather?

In the tanning of hides, we use salts (particularly alum) to cause the

folicles around the hairs of the hide to constrict. This is important if you

want to keep the hair on the hide.

For those of you with period pavilions, alum is also used as a non-toxic fire

retardant for fabric. Before you apply your favorite waterproofing, soak the

fabric in a strong solution of alum and let dry. This method was also used to

fireproof sails on ships of war.

Dur the Nasty, Baron of Grey Matter

From: Colin The Blackheart

To: All

08-Jul-90 01:20am

Subject: leather

Can't remember who asked about leather, but here's a tip from Haagen, a friend

of mine in Southkeype who's too busy making the money to move away to ge to

events. . . blah, typed that all in one breath!

Get a couple of stainless steel salad bowls, each the same size (spun domes

work OK for this, but rust). Soak your leather as before, but when it gets to

that soggy cardboard consistency, put it in between those domes, and put a

couple of bricks on top. Let it sit for a couple of days (preferably a week).

Remove bricks and bowls and walla! Perfect hemispherical (or whatever) shape

in the leather, perfect for elbows and knees.

Colin

From: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin)

Date: 28 Oct 91 20:57:54 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Greetings unto people of the rialto:

Is suede period? Strictly speaking probably not, in the

sense that period leathers that might have looked like

suede would not have been produced in the same way, or

for the same reason. Modern suede is produced from the

'split' (pelt is passed through a band knife machine that

splits it into two layers) which does not have the original

grain surface of the leather. It is typically chrome tanned

(not a period tannage). While the technology to split a

pelt existed in period (highly skilled manual operation

employed in producing some parchments), I have seen no

references to it having been done in leather production.

I would guess that this is due to the limited utility of suede.

Leather is useful because of it's beauty and durability.

Both these virtues are compromised in the removal of the grain

surface. The period tanner would probably have seen little

advantage in devoting a large amount of work to obtain an

inferior (and therefore less marketable) product. With modern,

highly mechanized tanneries, making maximum use of the raw

materials (pelts) in producing lightweight fashion/garment

leathers in the priority. The period exception to this argument

would be oil-tanned wash leathers and buff leathers (NOTE: what

tandy's calls oil-tanned leather is NOT in fact, oil-tanned).

In producing these leathers, the grain is scraped away (called

'frizzing') to facilitate penetration of oils from both sides

of the pelt. These leathers would look somewhat like suede,

but would exhibit different properties (a modern chamois is

an oil tanned split). I personally prefer full grain leathers,

but would not regard the use of suede as horrendously un-period.

What I find more disturbing is the prevelence of the colour

black. While beer-black was certainly a popular leather dye

in period, red was much more highly prized . Sometimes SCA

events put me in mind of biker-hell.

Of course, almost all modern leathers are, to varying degrees,

non-period.

Regards,

Balderik (of no fixed address)

From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright)

Date: 28 Oct 91 23:29:55 GMT

Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA

cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin) writes:

>Is suede period? Strictly speaking probably not, in the

>sense that period leathers that might have looked like

>suede would not have been produced in the same way, or

>for the same reason. Modern suede is produced from the

>'split' (pelt is passed through a band knife machine that

>splits it into two layers) which does not have the original

>grain surface of the leather.

That is one way seude can be made, but not the only way.

Tanning a hide produces a type of leather called "full grain."

This is the type of leather usually used for carving. This

leather is then sanded to produce "suede." Coating the leather

to fill in the roughness produces "top grain," the type of

leather used to make (non-suede) jackets, etc. (Source: The

Leather Warehouse)

And, yes, suede is period. If you look in Janet Arnold's "Patterns

of Fashion (Vol. 3)," you will find several good examples of suede

used in period documents.

From: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin)

Date: 11 Dec 91 13:49:20 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Unto Duke Sir Cariadoc does Lord Balderik sent his

greetings. Below I have given a brief note on cuir

boulli I once prepared as a Rialto posting but never

got around to posting until the thread had petered out.

I hope it may be of some use. If you would like more

info, feel free to contact me via the Rialto (I do not

have external E-mail).

According to Waterer (Leather Craftmanship, Leather and the

Warrior, etc.), the cuir boulli effect is obtained when

vegetable tanned leather is dried at elevated temperatures.

It is a chemical reaction which converts the leather

into something more closely resembling plastic (I forget the

details). It will only occur with vegetable tanned

leather (the stuff used for tooling leather).

The temperature is critical: too low and no hardening occurs,

too high and the leather becomes brittle.

R. Reid (or was it Reed? in his book Ancient Skins, Parchments,

and Leathers) concurrs, adding that it was also achieved by

briefly (!) dipping the leather in boiling water for between

20 and 120 sec. I have yet to experiment with this technique.

The application of wax is not necessary, although it enhances

the effect by increasing the density of the leather and

limiting the softening that can occur when the leather

is dampened (the use of a wax hardener as mentioned in a

previous posting will achieve a similar effect no doubt!).

The wax also makes the leather tougher. I do not recall either

Waterer or Reed making mention of the use of wax for cuir boulli

armour, but I would have to check.

I made cuir boulli arm harness' as follows:

1) cut out individual lames from leather

2) select forms on which leather will be dried :

-lames were tied onto coffee cans with string

(don't use tape!!!)

-vambraces were tied onto newspapers which were rolled

up into roughly conical shapes

3) in order to determine the optimum temperature, the scrap

bits of leather were used to experiment with different

oven settings (soak piece of leather in water until

saturated, dry in oven, check result)

4) when the correct setting for the oven in question is

determined, the individual armour components (not yet

assembled) are soaked in water until saturated, and

then tied firmly to their respective forms (note that

if you are ambitious you can carve positive and negative

molds in order to impress decorations in relief

on the armour - very period! - see Waterer).

5) place forms in oven and prop door open a crack to let

the moisture escape.

6) melt some parafin wax (beeswax can be used but it is

expensive and will smell like honey when your

armour is in the sun for a while) in a double boiler

(a bowl sitting in a pot of boiling water works).

7) when the pieces are dry and hardened, remove them from

the forms (careful of heat) and brush on the molten

wax with a basting brush or some such implement.

Pieces can be returned to the oven (placed on a cookie

sheet or some such) in order to allow the wax

to permiate the leather. The oven should be hot

enough to melt the wax, but NOT hot enough to burn it!

EXERCISE DUE CAUTION!

SEE INSTRUCTIONS IN EARLIER POSTINGS ON WAXING ARMOUR.

8) When the pieces are hardened and waxed, any rivet holes

needed (unless prepunched) can be drilled.

Edges can be filed/sanded.

An old fashioned (period?) method for hardening shoe

soles (if they are made of vegetable tanned leather)

is to soak and HAMMER them. The compression/heat of hammering

probably produces an effect analagous to that of cuir boulli.

It has the advantage of stretching and consolidating the

leather to limit changes in the sole's shape once the

shoe starts being worn. Given the similarities between the

two applications, I thought it natural to wax the

soles of my boots in the same way as my armour. The soles get

harder, tougher, and less succeptable to dampness.

They can however be very slippery the first time you wear

them so it is best to go out on the pavement and scuff them

up a bit before dancing on a hardwood floor!

Hope this helps,

Balderick (of pathless wastes fame)

Re: Patent Leather

Date: 4 Feb 92

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Unto the good people of the Rialto does Balderik

send his greetings.

In the article 'Leather Conservation Terminology'

from Leather Conservation News Vol.4 1984 (p.6-15),

we find the definition:

PATENT LEATHER Cattle or horse hide leather,

one side of which (usually the flesh) is covered

with a flexible waterproof film having a lustrous

and highly glazed surface produced by successive

coats of daubs, varnishes and lacquers some of which

may be pigmented. These were formerly based on

boiled linseed oil ('Japanning') but some or all

may now consist partly or entirely of plasticised

nitrocellulose and/or synthetic resin. Originally

made only in black and white, colours are now

available. How long the term 'patent' has been

applied to this kind of leather is not known.

Japanned horse winkers were used in France before

the revolution, but the earliest English patent

so far traced that appears to have reference to

this process is dated 1799 followed by one in 1801.

Patent leather would not be my first choice but

that is mostly my personal preference. While

it may not be 'period' in a strict sense,

there may be period leathers that are similar

in appearance. You should be commended for

going to the effort of making period footwear

(one article of garb that is often neglected).

Regards,

Balderik

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 03:59:41 GMT

Patrick Angus Flynn asks about waxed leather, and Magnus Moorley

responds:

"Making it is simple; get a big kettle, melt some parrafin, dip the

leather, and bend your leather to the desired shape immediately."

I would add:

1. Beeswax also works and, unlike paraffin, is period.

2. You can also do it in an oven at about 220 degrees, with the

melted wax in a baking pan or something similar.

3. While you can bend leather as described, it would be very

difficult to get any shape that involves stretching. My usual

technique involves first soaking the leather in water for many hours,

then shaping and stretching it to the desired shape, then letting it

dry out on some convenient form to keep the shape, then waxing it

when it is thoroughly dry. This way all the forming is being done

with cool, water soaked leather, not with hot, wax soaked leather.

4. More more detailed instructions, see my article on the subject in

T.I. a year or so back.

David/Cariadoc

From: pmw2c at csissun10.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Organization: University of Virginia

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 04:13:49 GMT

jeff_witham at mercer.COM writes:

|> Patrick Angus Flynn enquireth:

|> >>What is the opinion of the populace of waxing leather for

|> >>armor? Is it necessary? Is it a good idea? If so, how do I do

|> >>it?

|> Waxed leather or Cuir bouilli <sp?> is a relatively inexpensive

|> (but effective and authentic) type of armor. Not only does this

|> make the leather waterproof (and almost sweatproof), but it makes

|> the leather much more rigid. I'm going to make some this year.

|> I like it better than regular leather since the leather can

|> protect you better. Making it is simple; get a big kettle, melt

|> some parrafin, dip the leather, and bend your leather to the

|> desired shape immediately. I've been told that this can be done

|> in the kitchen. I wouldn't do it in _my_ kitchen, though. I

|> think I'll go camping to do it, and make a party of the occasion.

I have made Coir bouilli in my kitchen (I'm not

real picky :-) and have been very pleased with

the results. Cuir bouilli has the properties of

being light, and fairly rigid but not too rigid.

When armour is too rigid, like steel, you can get

armour bites. Armour bites are much less likely

with Coir bouilli.

There are some things you need to be aware of

though.

#1 if the wax gets warm the leather gets

soft again. This is more of a problem with beeswax

than parafin, which has a higher melting point.

#2 you can use the warming to your advantage. If

your leather gets bent (which it invariably will)

you can heat it and bend it back into shape, no

problem!

Conrad Hebenstorm

From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Date: 3 Jul 93 11:38:46 GMT

Organization: University of Toronto - Wax on ... wax off

I had heard that a blend of beeswax (for resilience) and carnuba wax

(for hardness) made for the best hardener.

In my experience, the wax always had to go on hot leather, or it would

just sit on the surface. If the leather is hot (only as hot as an

oven or dryer) vegetable tanned stuff, it will drink the wax right in.

Aryk

From: ross at chem.queensu.ca (Ross Dickson)

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Queen's University

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 18:14:49 GMT

David / Cariadoc (ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu) writes:

> ... first soaking the leather in water for many hours,

>then shaping and stretching it to the desired shape, then letting it

>dry out on some convenient form to keep the shape, then waxing it

>when it is thoroughly dry.

I thought I should mention that the bit about waxing it WHEN IT IS

THOROUGHLY DRY is important. Gaerhun made his first set of waxed

leather armour here a couple of years ago, and we discovered that one

of the pieces was a rather brittle in the center, and had the

appearance of a crystalline nature at the broken spot. We deduced that

the center of the piece hadn't completely dried before it was waxed.

Angus / Ross

From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Organization: University of Toronto - Wax on, wax off...

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 20:34:37 GMT

Another safe way to melt wax: microwave oven.

Aryk

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Subject: Re: Waxed Leather

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:47:00 GMT

Greetings from Balderik:

Here's some info I posted LOOONNNGGG time ago on making

cuirboulli armour:

According to Waterer (Leather Craftmanship, Leather and the

Warrior, etc.), the cuir boulli effect is obtained when

vegetable tanned leather is dried at elevated temperatures.

It is a chemical reaction which converts the leather

into something more closely resembling plastic (I forget the

details). It will only occur with vegetable tanned

leather (the stuff used for tooling leather).

The temperature is critical: too low and no hardening occurs,

too high and the leather becomes brittle.

R. Reid (or was it Reed? in his book Ancient Skins, Parchments,

and Leathers) concurrs, adding that it was also achieved by

briefly (!) dipping the leather in boiling water for between

20 and 120 sec. I have yet to experiment with this technique.

The application of wax is not necessary, although it enhances

the effect by increasing the density of the leather and

limiting the softening that can occur when the leather

is dampened.

The wax also makes the leather tougher. I do not recall either

Waterer or Reed making mention of the use of wax for cuir boulli

armour, but I would have to check.