fd-Mid-East-msg - 1/13/09
Period Middle Easten food. References. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: fd-Byzantine-msg, fd-Turkey-msg, fd-Spain-msg, Arabs-msg, Ethiopia-msg, Jews-msg, Khazars-msg, Moors-msg, murri-msg.
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Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:03:14 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - advice/help: shish kebabs period?
> Can anyone give an estimation of whether the concept of shish kebab
> is period? (I'm not talking about California kay-bobs with cherry
> tomatoes, bell peppers and pineapple here. I'm just looking for a skewer
> or blade with meats impaled on it and grilled thusly; and how they were
> seasoned.)
>
> - kat
Maybe this will help you. It's from a web site with some information about
historic Turkish cuisine.
(quote)
Another work which enlightens the same period is the Dede Korkut Hikayeleri
(The Tales of Dede Korkut) compiled towards the end of the 14th century.
These twelve tales are a rich source of information about the customs of the
Oghuz Turks who lived in the southwestern Asia. Yahni (stew), kebabs (food
on skewers), togya corbasi (a soup made from wheat flour and yoghurt),
clotted cream, yoghurt, cheese, milk, ayran, koumiss, and wine were all
consumed in the Tales of Dede Korkut.
(end quote)
Should you wish to look the site over, the URL is:
http://palette.ecn.purdue.edu/~akcali/history.cuisine.html
Bear
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:59:00 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - advice/help: shish kebabs period?
At 1:12 PM -0700 5/8/98, kat wrote:
> Can anyone give an estimation of whether the concept of shish kebabis period?
The 13th c. Andalusian cookbook has one recipe that says: "Take pieces of
meat without bones and cut them as for shishkebab." So assuming the
translation can be trusted--and Charles Perry, the translator, knows more
about medieval Islamic cooking than anyone else I know--the answer to your
question is yes.
I believe, incidentally, that "kebab" simply means "meatball," although I'm
not certain.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 05:27:46 -0500
From: a14h at zebra.net (William Seibert)
Subject: Re: SC - advice/help: shish kebabs period?
Hans Wehr Dictionary of Written Arabic gives:
KBAB (kaf bab alef bab) fried or broiled meat; cabobs; meat
roasted in small pieces on a skewer; a kind of meatballs made of
finely chopped meat (syrian, egyptian).
WAJDI
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:42:12 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - advice/help: shish kebabs period?
At 1:12 PM -0700 5/8/98, kat wrote:
> Can anyone give an estimation of whether the concept of shish kebab
>is period?
Here is one we have tried only once; as I remember, it was pretty good.
Don't know if the marinade is too "wierd" for your problem person.
Meat Roasted Over Coals
Andalusian
Cut the meat however you wish and throw on a spoon of oil and another of
murri, salt, coriander seed, pepper and thyme; leave for a while until it
has absorbed the spices, prepare without smoke and roast on a spit and
watch it. [end of original]
meat: 2 lb lamb
1/4 c murri
1/4 c oil
1/2 t salt
1 t coriander
1/2 t thyme
1/2 t pepper
Mix all ingredients except meat to make a marinade. Cut meat into 1"
cubes, mix into marinade. Let sit one hour. Roast (time not noted).
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:58:21 +1000
From: "Susan P Laing" <Susan.P.Laing at mainroads.qld.gov.au>
Subject: SC - Medieval arab cookery book
Quick check of "British Books in Print" shows -
Medieval Arab Cookery
by Rodinson Maxime etc. ( Yeomans Barbara (Tr.); Roden Claudia (Ed.) )
Prospect Bks. Dec 1998
23cm.300.
Binding: Cloth Price: L25.00 ISBN: 0907325912
Print Status: In Print
Country of Publication: England
Amazon UK -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html/026-9563264-2579854
has it listed as "4-6 week delivery" item at UK25.00
Mari de Paxford
Brisbane, Australia
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:47:46 -0500
From: "Jennifer Conrad" <CONRAD3 at prodigy.net>
Subject: SC - Food from the Arab World (link)
Here's a link some may find interesting
Luveday
http://almashriq.hiof.no/general/600.technology/640.home_economics_and_famil
y_living/641.food_and_drink/khayat/
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:53:38 -0500
From: "Jennifer Conrad" <CONRAD3 at prodigy.net>
Subject: SC - =?iso-8859-1?Q?U=C6_FOREVER_Dishes_=28Link=29?=
Another link (more Arabic dishes)
http://www.uaeforever.com/Dishes/
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:54:37 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Turkish feasts and other thoughts
Weaver8002 at aol.com writes:
<< but that sounds like a lot of work for a caravan, >>
Not particularly. Field kitchens were brought along on any major trip. More
to the point these peoples were until quite recently a migratory people and
generally carried everything they owned with them. Cooking would have been no
harder traveling to China and back than traversing Pakistan or the Kurdish
highlands.
<<and besides, I don't know if that's a period way to go about your eggs!),
>>
Not particularly. Almost without exception period middle eastern recipes
which used eggs either broke the eggs whole across the top of the dish or
added it on top in layers. Occasionally hard boiled chopped eggs or whole
hard boiled yolks were used
There is a large corpus of easily understood period (better yet-medieval)
middle eastern recipes so there is little or no need to use ethnic/regional
recipes or modern recipes. Both His Grace, Duke Sir Cariadoc, myself and
others have redacted large numbers of period Middle Eastern and Andalusian
recipes so there is an extensive volume of ready recipes to choose from.
Modern middle eastern food has gone through just as many changes as our own
cuisine since the middle ages. The use of ethnic recipes may lend some bit of
the exotic to a feast but does not make a feast any more period than using
Betty Crocker or Lean Cuisine would.
Although it cheers me to see a renewed interest in period middle eastern
studies, I am saddened by the fact that so many, if not the majority, of
feasts make no attempt to use period middle eastern food which I have found
to be even tastier than period European food. There are a handful of SCA
cooks who consistently produce period feasts of several cuisines which are
worth 10 times the price you pay for them. I suggest anyone who has not eaten
good period food to seek out the events these people cook at and find out for
yourselves what a special treat these foods can be. :-)
Ras
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:17:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - tagine
I remember a brief discussion on tagines in Claudia Roden's book of middle
eastern cooking. It is under the recipe "mishmishya", which is her
redaction of the al-bagdadi original (Arberry translation). I used her
redaction w/ the suggested rosewater. The dish was quite good and
fragrant. Even my non-SCA husband ate it and said "good stew, honey".
The al-bagdadi also has "rutibya", which is stuffed dates and a
coriander-spiced, ground lamb (similar to Lebanese kofta). I vaguely
remember the text saying to "heat it to dryness". I can't remember if it
was in the same section w/ mishmishya.
I won't be home (w/ my books) until Friday. I will post the al-baghdadi
mishmishya recipe and Claudia Roden's redaction on Sat morning.
Ariann
ariann at nmia.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:48:45 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - mishmishiya tagine recipe (LONG)
Here is the al-baghdadi recipe I promised. I recommend buying the book.
Ariann
_____________________________
Roden, Claudia, A Book of Middle Eastern Food, 1968, Vintage Books, NY,
453p. ISBN: 0-394-71948-4
Roden p.246, reproduced for educational purposes:
" M E A T S T E W S W I T H F R U I T
I have found many Moroccan touajen (the plural form of tagine) incredibly
like al-Baghdadi's medieval stews -- mysterious culinary bond between
ancient Persia and modern Morocco.
Many Moroccans originate from the regions of the Yemen, Iraq, and
Saudi Arabia. They came there at different times: first in the
pre-Christian era, then with the Arab Islamic invasion in the seventh
century, and then again in the twelfth, thirteenth, and fourteenth
centuries. I suspect that the Arabs of the Abbassid period (the time of
al-Baghdadi) brought these dishes with them. They were then adopted and
perpetuated through the ephemeral Almovarid dynasty, the brilliant
Moroccan period of the dynasty of the Almohads which diffused Moorish
civilization throughout a vast empire, and again during the Sharifian
dynasty of the descendants of Fatima, daughter of the Prophet, who came
from Arabia at the end of the fourteenth century.
The same fruits -- apples, prunes, quinces, and currantsand to a
large extent the same spices are used by Moroccans today as were used by
the ancient Persians and the Arabs of the Abbassid period. Al-Baghdadi's
recipes recommended mashing the fruits to a pulp, but Moroccans leave them
whole or sliced and add them toward the end of cooking, to prevent their
disintegrating. Fasis (inhabitants of Fez) stew their ingredients, as
al-Baghdadi did, without preliminary frying, as they consider that frying
would add heaviness to otherwise delicate dishes.
Every Moroccan family prizes its own very special touajen which
generations of their cooks have prepared for them, keeping the recipes
fiercely secret, and I realize that I have been able to include only a few
from a vast culinary treasury.
Modern Persian stews (khoreshtha) have developed them and changed
them a little, remaining true to their own early traditions. I have
included these in the chapter on rice, as today they are intended as
sauces for rice.
Curiously, countries around the region of Baghdad, now the capital of
Iraq, where al-Baghdadi lived, have not perpetuated this particular
tradition.
__________________
Mishmishya
A splendid meat and apricot dish which derives its name from the Arabic
word for the fruit, mishmish. Lamb seems to have special affinity for
apricots, and a similar dish was a great favorite in our family.
>From al-Baghdadi's cooking manual
"Cut fat meat small, put into the saucepan with a little salt, and cover
with water. Boil and remove the scum. Cut up onions, wash, and throw in
on top of the meat. Add seasonings, coriander, cumin, mastic, cinnamon,
pepper and ginger, well ground. Take dry apricots, soak in hot water,
then wash and put in a separate saucepan, and boil lightly: take out, wipe
in the hands, and strain through a sieve. Take sweet almonds, grind fine,
moisten with a little apricot juice and throw in. Some color with a
trifle of saffron. Spray the saucepan with a little rose water, wipe its
sides with a clean rag, and leave to settle over the fire: then remove."
S U G G E S T E D Q U A N T I T I E S
2 lbs. lean lamb, cubed
Black pepper
Salt
1-2 onions, finely chopped
1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
1/2 lb. dried apricots, soaked and passed through a food mill
1/2-1 teaspoon ground coriander
1/2-1 teaspoon ground cumin
1/3 cup ground almonds
1/4 teaspoon pulverized mastic
1/4 teaspoon saffron (optional)
1/4-1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon 1
1 teaspoon rose water
This is one of the dishes on which the meat is not fried before stewing.
It may seem dull at first, but the apricot sauce thickened with the ground
almonds gives it a particular richness which makes frying superfluous.
The stew requires about 2 hours of gentle cooking, preferably on an
asbestos mat. Leave out the mastic and saffron if you wishI do not think
they are necessary."
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:59:10 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - request for info
> I the same book by Notaker I took the references to the Danish Cookbook
> by Harperenge, I found another comments about an Arabic cookbook,
> written in Bagdad 1266. He says the manuscript is enterely translated to
> English.
>
> Ana
I think you are referring to the translation by Prof. A.J. Arberry, A
Baghdad Cookery Book, published in 1939.
This is to be reprinted in Medieval Arab Cookery by Maxime Rodinson and
Charles Perry, published by Prospect Books, London. Unfortunately, it is
not yet available.
Bear
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:17:20 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - request for info
TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< I think you are referring to the translation by Prof. A.J. Arberry, A
Baghdad Cookery Book, published in 1939. >>
Charles Perry's translation IS available in Cariadoc's collection. Why wish
for the unavailable when the best is inexpensively to be had?
Ras
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:24:44 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Period Hummus-recipe
His Grace had indicated that he could not find any recipes similar to Hummus
in period sources. He also indicated that he could not find any reference to
sesame seed paste in period sources. I must disagree with His Grace's
findings. I found the following recipe (one of 2 containing Tahini) in A
Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks, Vol. 2, pg. Misc-3. It is
one of the three recipes translated from Kitab al-Tabikh (The Book of
Dishes): Oriental 5000 (British Library) pp.70b, 71a, 74b.
The finished dish looked and tasted so much like garbanzo based hummus that a
person with an untrained palette would be hard pressed to tell them apart. In
fact we made modern hummus and were able to compare them ourselves. I much
prefer the medieval version below.
Original (translation)-
White sals. Walnut meats, garlic, pepper, cinnamon, white mustard, Tahini and
lemon juice.
Redaction-
White sals
(copyright c 1999 Ras, Elysant, Puck)
1 cp. Walnuts
2 cloves Garlic
1/8 tsp. Black pepper, ground
1/2 tsp. True cinnamon, ground
3/4 tsp. prepared mustard (see notes below)
2 Tblsp Tahini
Lemon juice, as needed
In a food processor combine walnuts and garlic until they form a smooth
paste. Put walnut mixture in a bowl. Add pepper. cinnamon, mustard and
Tahini. Mix thoroughly adding lemon juice by the teaspoonful until a smooth
very thick mixture is achieved.
NOTE: There is a description of mustard as prepared in the medieval middle
east in another section of Caraidoc's Collection. We used a modern mustard
that most fit this description. Any country-style mustard would work.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:38:53 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Period Hummus-recipe and a added question
LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> troy at asan.com writes:
> << Yup. There's _some_ evidence to suggest, but perhaps not conclusively,
> that the tahini referred to in medieval Islamic texts is not the same
> stuff. >>
>
> Source please?
In the Charles Perry translation of the 15th century Kitab Al-Tibakhah
(See PPC #21), there is a general set of instructions for hulwa, with
specifics for the various types. It included the following somewhat
ambiguous line (bearing in mind that to me, black and white are
ambiguous): [General instructions for a candy not unlike nougat, kinda
like Swiss meringue on steroids, snipped] If you want almond candy [name
snipped] put in toasted almonds, etc., etc., simsimiyyah, toasted
sesame; tahiniyyah, flour (tah’n).
> <<In some cases (in particular the halwah recipes from period) it
> appears to be less oily, and less of a smooth paste, at least from
> recipe context.>>
>
> Ok. I can see that. Tahini does separate though. And the oil can be poured
> off. :-) I am still interested in seeing where this theory that period tahini
> was 'different' comes from though. The recipe for White sals. Did not seem to
> suffer in using an oil based product. In fact the opposite was true. The
> again Halwah and sals are as different as bread and butter. :-)
It _seems_ as if Perry is translating "tah’n" as "flour". Whether this
is a reference to some kind of sesame flour, based on text ordering,
which the context seems to make at least possible, or to something like
barley flour, is not clear. I note that in addition to Perry's implicit
claim that "tah’n" = "flour", your AOL online dictionary says the first
use of "tahini" (or is that only in English usage?) is in 1950.
I guess what this boils down to is, what word do you think is being used
in the original Arabic recipe for white sals (which I assume is the name
supplied by the English translator), that is being translated as tahini?
If it's tahini, and we believe Perry, it could mean flour, and/or could
be at odds with the dictionary entry you quoted. If, on the other hand,
it's a sesame paste product that we'd now call tahini, what did they
call it then?
As I said, this is far from conclusive evidence that what is intended is
_not_ tahini in the modern usage, but the questions are there. Yes, the
dish could work very well using tahini, but the fact that it works well
with modern tahini doesn't preclude its working well with some other
ingredient, if that's what's intended. There may be a slight assumption
being made here (and one I'm generally in agreement with) that if it
tastes good to us it probably tasted good to them. The key word is
"probably", I'd say.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:10:40 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period Hummus-recipe and a added question
troy at asan.com writes:
<< n the original Arabic recipe for white sals (which I assume is the name
supplied by the English translator), that is being translated as tahini?
If it's tahini, and we believe Perry, it could mean flour, and/or could
be at odds with the dictionary entry you quoted. If, on the other hand,
it's a sesame paste product that we'd now call tahini, what did they
call it then? >>
The AOL dictionary is in fact the current Mirriam-Webster dictionary to get
that particular bit out of the way. :-)
Anyway the word translated as tahinae by the translator is derived, I assume,
from the Arabic dialect tahina, from tahana to grind. The question then
becomes what is the difference between the Arabic ending -ina and -ana. I am
not an expert in Arabic. I can't even read Arabic unless you count the
meaning of my SCA name. :-)
However, the translator seemed to think that the word meant tahini as that is
what they translated it as. I am aware that my redaction is only valid so far
as the translator is accurate.
In my home test of the recipe, which is the version posted, I actually ground
sesame seeds and did not use the store bought version of tahini. Yes, the
texture was slightly different (e.g., not as smooth as commercial tahini).
And it needed slightly more lemon juice to get a good texture. However, do
you have any reason to believe that this redaction was not as close as
possible to the translation I had to work with. If I have used an ingredient
not intended, I would be most willing to redo the correct version. But again
the question of the translator's use of the word tahinae suggests that the
sesame product is meant.
Ras
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:46:39 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Apicius / Kitab al-Tabikh
At 10:45 PM +0200 7/28/99, Thomas Gloning wrote:
>You mentioned a Kitab al-Tabikh in a Manuscript 'Oriental 5000' of the
>British library.
>
>Is it edited and/or translated somewhere?
>
>Besides the Kitab al-Tabikh that Arberry used for his translation in
>'Islamic Culture' 1939, he mentions another one in the Bodleian Library
>in Oxford (Hunt 187): Kitab al-Tabikh by Abu Muhammad al-Muzaffar b.
>Nasr ibn Saiyar al Warraq. Arberry says: "I hope to show in a
>forthcoming paper that this work which is of the greatest interest, was
>written some time during the 4/10th century, by a writer who had access
>to the actual recipe-book of the Abbasid Caliphs" (p. 30 note 5).
>
>Where, if ever, did this paper appear?
I don't know about the paper, but the Arabic text of the cookbook was
published by Studia Orientalia in Helsinki some years back.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:36:33 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah at grin.net>
Subject: SC - In a Caliph's Kitchen
I *finally* got a copy of Waines' "In a Caliph's Kitchen" through ILL
(bless my neighborhood library). I'm in the SF Bay Area. A copy of
the book was apparently difficult to locate. The librarian said he
could only locate about 6 copies, and many were unavailable. This one
came from the University of Minnesota (!!!). I get to have it until
Dec 11.
I've merely glanced through it. To my inexperienced eye, it looks very good.
The book begins with several chapters of background on Medieval
Middle Eastern cookbooks, food, history, etc. And there are some
footnotes and a bibliography. Then, for each recipe, there is:
1) a modern redaction
2) a paragraph or more of commentary about the source, the original
recipe and its history.
3) a color photo of the modern dish (drool)
4) a translation of the recipe
The author takes some liberties with his redactions, as other
redactors of Medieval recipes do, and often comments on them, as
other redactors of Medieval recipes do.
But i noticed that some folks (in webbed commentaries) said this was
not a very good book. Will those who are knowledgeable please comment
on this book. Is it good or is it not useful? What are its bad
points? its good points? Are there *lots* of errors in the recipe
translations? Other issues?
I'm less interested in discussing the author's redactions, since i
prefer to do my own redactions, although I like seeing someone else's
to compare with mine.
I really want to own a copy, but have had no luck through abebooks,
bookfinder, bibliofind, etc. for 4 months or more. I will photocopy
this one, but i'm frustrated that color photo copies are too
expensive to copy all those yummy food pictures :-( I may end up
scanning them. I'd still rather have a real bound book. I'll keep
searching...
Anahita
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:00:54 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - In a Caliph's Kitchen
lilinah at grin.net writes:
<< But I noticed that some folks (in webbed commentaries) said this was
not a very good book. Will those who are knowledgeable please comment
on this book? Is it good or is it not useful? What are its bad
points? its good points? Are there *lots* of errors in the recipe
translations? Other issues?
I'm less interested in discussing the author's redactions, since i
prefer to do my own redactions, although i like seeing someone else's
to compare with mine. >>
I think the books bad features are the redactions. He, as some other cooks
do, take liberties where none are justified and are definitely unnecessary.
Since redacting period middle eastern is a passion of mine and I have been
told I am good at it by those who actually have eaten them prepared, I found
that particular bugaboo problem enough to not purchase the book. With more
than enough books containing poor redactions, I felt that I couldn't justify
adding another one to my collection. After looking at the redactions, I did
not peruse the volume any further so others will have to comment on the rest
of the work.
Ras
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:00:47 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - New World Foods-rant (was: turkey)
At 11:09 PM +0100 2/15/00, Thomas Gloning wrote:
>BTW, do we know anything about post 13th-century arabic sources?
Ibn al Mubarrad wrote a short 15th c. cookbook; Charles Perry's
translation was published in PPC (and is in my collection). That's
the only one I know of, but there are probably more.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:57:09 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - New World Foods-rant (was: turkey)
David/Cariadoc wrote:
>Ibn al Mubarrad wrote a short 15th c. cookbook; Charles Perry's
>translation was published in PPC (and is in my collection). That's
>the only one I know of, but there are probably more.
Charles Perry mentions several in The Fate of the Tail, among them Kitâb
Wasf (14th c, actually al-Baghdadi with a few dozen additional recipes), and
two Iranian 16th and 17th century collections.
He also says the most popular cookbook of the Arab Middle ages, judging from
the number of surviving manuscripts, seems to have been the Syrian 13th c.
Kitâb al-Wusla (I'm a bit confused here - has this book been translated?),
and says virtually every MS of it has a section of recipes that have been
added at a later time.
Nanna
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:51:57 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Another Arabic Cookbook
At 9:14 PM -0500 3/9/00, Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
>While at a research gathering last night, one of the ladies had me look at
>her newest cookbook. It is Arabic Recipes and History for the Medieval
>Feast. Written by J. Corbin. It gives a web page of :
>
>http://celticcat.com/jcorbin/arabicrecipes/index.html
>
>It shows the cover, the recipe titles, and to order send $25 to....
>
>Does anyone have this one?
>It has pumpkins, tomatoes and bell peppers....
>
>Aldyth
Actually, it is at:
http://www.celticcat.com/JCorbin/ArabicRecipes/index.html
Apparently the server is case sensitive, because the lower case
version of the URL didn't work, at least for me.
Judging by the recipes listed, it is a collection of modern recipes
from the Islamic world, not of period recipes. I note, for example,
two recipes for "harisa," in both cases a pepper sauce--the modern
North African dish. There are no recipes for the medieval harisa,
which was a very common and entirely different dish.
I didn't notice any recipes that I recognized as period Islamic--and
there are lots that use New World ingredients. So far as I know,
there are no surviving Islamic cookbooks from between 1492 and 1600.
I have no idea how good the historical information is. So far as I
can tell, the author doesn't list an email address, so can't ask her
about it--(snailmail? what's snailmail?)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:12:13 -0600
From: "maddie teller-kook" <meadhbh at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2046
From: Guenevere Nelson-Melby <Guenevere_Nelson-Melby at needham.k12.ma.us>
> Has anyone read A Mediterranean Feast: The Story of the Birth of the
> Celebrated Cuisines of the Mediterranean from the Merchants of Venice to
> the Barbary Corsairs, with More than 500 Recipes
> by Clifford A. Wright ?
> Perhaps it has been discussed previously. I am new to the list and have
> no sense of history here. But his thesis is that we have underestimated
> Arab influence on European culture and cuisine and it's quite exhaustively
> documented? I know that it isn't technically all medieval, but it is
> rooted in history. Any other fans, readers?
> Guenevere
My biggest disappointment with this book is the recipes. No originals (well,
very few). Most recipes look more ethnic than medieval.
meadhbh
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:29:38 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Megadarra
I just got finished typing this in for a friend, so I thought I would
send it along to the list for your benefit as well. Can someone with
access to al-Baghdadi put their hands on the original, and perhaps type
it in as well?
Thanks,
Christianna
From :
"A Book of Middle Eastern Food" by Claudia Roden Vintage Books, c. 1972
"Megadarra
Here is a modern version of a medieval dish called 'mujadarra',
described by al -Baghdadi as a dish of the poor, and still known today as
Esau's favorite. In fact, it is such a great favorite that although said
to be for misers, it is a compliment to serve it.
An aunt of mine used to present it regularly to guests with the comment:
"Excuse the food of the poor!" - to which the unanimous repy always was:
"Keep your food of kings and give us megadarra every day!".
The proportions for this lentil and rice dish vary with every family.
Here is my family's recipe for a rather large quantity. Whereas I have
used twice the weight of rice to lentils, many other people use equal
amounts. Today, meat is not included as it was in the medieval recipe.
2 cups large brown lentils, soaked if required
1 onion, finely chopped
Oil
Salt and Black Pepper
1 cup long grain rice, washed
2 onions, sliced into half-moon shapes
Boil lentils in a fresh portion of water to cover for 3/4 to 1 1/2 hours,
or until tender. Fry the chopped onion in 2 tablespoons oil until soft
and golden. Add it to the lentils and season to taste with salt and
pepper. Mix well and add rice, together with enough water to make the
liquid in the pan up to 2 cups. Season again and simmer gently, covered,
for about 20 minutes until the rice becomes soft and well cooked, adding
a little more water if it becomes absorbed too quickly.
Fry the sliced onions in 2 tablespoons very hot oil until they are dark
brown and sweet, almost carmelized.
Serve the rice and lentils on a large shallow dish, garnished with the
fried onion slices.
This dish is delicious served either hot or cold, and accompanied by
yogurt. "
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:09:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - re: digest 2144 - Megadarra
Christianna wrote
"Megadarra
Here is a modern version of a medieval dish called 'mujadarra'"
I love that stuff... I often bring it to potlucks because it is vegitarian
(even vegan) safe, sticks to the ribs, and tastes great. I do not add the
pepper, and I actually brown all my onions to the really really caramelized
stage, it adds nice color and depth of flavor to the dish, then serve with
additional caramelized onions, salt and yogurt for people to add to their
serving.
Just for the record, I use equal parts lentils and rice, use olive oil to
brown my onions, and cook it in my Japanese electric rice steamer (have
steamer, will travel!) it works great.
I would love to see more in the way of documentation for it.
Gwen Catrin von Berlin
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:57:50 EDT
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Megadarra
I was first introduced to this dish when I was an exchange student in
Hungary. One of the other exchange students was half Lebanese and made her
family's version of megadarra for us all the time. That version was similar
to the recipe Christianna posted except Neda would fry the onion slices in
olive oil and the pour both the onions and the oil over the top of the dish
before serving. . .
Noemi
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:13:03 EDT
From: RButler96 at aol.com
Subject: SC - Period cookery recipes
Since I have had so many inquiries, I felt it necessary to share this on the
list.
A Baghdad Cookery Book
al-Baghdadi 1229
Translated in "Islamic Culture" (a journal)
the January 1939 edition
Be patient when requesting it. One of the Ivy League schools has a hard
copy, and U of F has a microfiche copy that I have a print out of the
complete thing. It's about 40 or 50 pages, and details many recipes, and
some great stories of the time. It's basically one man's favorite dishes.
There are a couple that resemble dolma.
My Lord husband and I recently presented a feast taken from this publication,
and it went over absolutely beautifully.
Khadijah bint Mika'il al-Zarqa'
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:53:35 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period cookery recipes
RButler96 at aol.com writes:
<< A Baghdad Cookery Book
al-Baghdadi 1229
Translated in "Islamic Culture" (a journal)
the January 1939 edition >>
I have also used this manuscript for several feasts and I agree the food is
great. My ongoing project is to redact every recipe contained in the book
but so far I only have 67 finished. :-)
A translation appears in His Grace Cariadoc's Collection of Medieval and
Renaissance Cookbooks, Vol.I. The 2 volume collection contains translations
of many of the cookbooks we mention on this list. And both volumes together
cost less than a single volume of most any book. I would highly recommend
that the serious student of medieval cookery purchase this collection.
Ras
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:49:04 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Redacted recipes
At 9:26 PM -0400 5/9/00, RButler96 at aol.com wrote:
>grizly at mindspring.com writes:
> > Recipes are not falling from trees for us in regards East of Venice.
>
> I would suggest that you look up the Islamic Cookery Book I listed.
>
> This lists mainly items served in Baghdad. They do have to be redacted.
>However, there is another book "A Book of Middle Eastern Food" by Claudia
>Roden. This one is not completely period, but contains some recipes from the
>above period reference that are redacted for convenience.
Claudia Roden is a fine source; it was through her that I first
discovered al-Baghdadi about thirty years ago. But almost none of her
recipes are period.
You have to be careful to distinguish between the statement that a
dish exists in a medieval source and the statement that this is the
recipe for it. Take a look, for example, at Rishta. She correctly
says that Rista is in al-Baghdadi. But if you compare her recipe with
his, you can see that they have very little to do with each other.
She is giving a modern recipe for a modern version of a dish that
existed, in a different version, in the thirteenth c.
David Friedman
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:48:12 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: recipe-Re: Fw: SC - hummus-LONG
rkappler at home.com writes:
<< Hmmm.... Are you sure about this Ras? >>
Yes.
<< IIRC the resource you had with you on the sailing trip was Curye on
Inglysche, not Cariadoc's wonderful volumes, >>
I had brought all my period cookery books with me. You are correct in that
the White Sals recipe used at Ladies was The garlic and yogurt one. It is in
fact, the white sals recipe found in the Book of the Beloved in Cariadoc's
Collection. HOWEVER, the White Sals recipe that was redacted and made on the
boat was the White Sals recipe from A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance
Cookbooks, Vol. 2, pg. Misc-3. It is one of the three recipes translated from
Kitab al-Tabikh (The Book of Dishes): Oriental 5000 (British Library) pp.70b, 71a, 74b.
The finished dish looked and tasted so much like garbanzo based hummus that a
person with an untrained palette would be hard pressed to tell them apart. In
fact we made modern hummus and were able to compare them ourselves. I much
prefer the medieval version below.
Original (translation)-
White sals. Walnut meats, garlic, pepper, cinnamon, white mustard, Tahini and
lemon juice.
Redaction-
White sals
(copyright c 1999 Ras, Elysant, Puck)
1 cp. Walnuts
2 cloves Garlic
1/8 tsp. Black pepper, ground
1/2 tsp. True cinnamon, ground
3/4 tsp. prepared mustard (see notes below)
2 Tblsp Tahini
Lemon juice, as needed
In a food processor combine walnuts and garlic until they form a smooth
paste. Put walnut mixture in a bowl. Add pepper. cinnamon, mustard and
Tahini. Mix thoroughly adding lemon juice by the teaspoonful until a smooth
very thick mixture is achieved.
NOTE: There is a description of mustard as prepared in the medieval middle
east in another section of Caraidoc's Collection. We used a modern mustard
that most fit this description. Any country-style mustard would work.
<<Sals is the dish we did for the first course at the Ladies Champions feast
in Confed and consists of yoghurt and seasonings, >>
Correct. See above. There are at least 2 recipes with the title of White Sals
in at least 2 different manuscripts. The White Sals done on the boat did not
contain chickpeas and very closely resembles modern hummus when prepared.
<<Why substitute peanut butter for chickpeas or tahini when both are so
readily available? Again, my memory is a little fuzzy, but perhaps it was
because we were out and about on the Narragannsett and had neither of those
with us, but plenty of peanut butter? >>
Correct. It was during the time we were stranded in the water after we our
little adventure with the non-running engine and becalmed seas. There were no
chickpeas in the recipe but Tahini was mentioned.
<< I cannot otherwise imagine why a man as renowned for meticulous adherence
to period practices and ingredients would use a new world food in a period
recipe.>>
IIRC, the addition of peanut butter was done because of a lack of tahini at
the time. The recipe was subsequently prepared correctly without the
offending ingredient according to our actual redaction after the boat trip
and was fine. It was prepared by Margali at Pennsic before last. Again it
turned out fine.
<<hummus is actually a cheese like spread and not a paste of roasted sesame
seeds and/or chickpeas as I thought. >>
Modern hummus is as you describe. White Sals, OTOH, can be a garlic flavored
yogurt cheese or a walnut paste/sesame seed dish that resembles modern hummus
in flavor and texture.
<< Would it be possible for me to get a copy of this from you, or would that
be in violation of copyright protections?>>
His Grace kindly provides that up to 500 copies can be made for educational
purposes. I think it is in the back of Vol II though. If not the back of II
then I. It is in there. Again the Walnut paste sals is NOT in The Book of the
Beloved. It is from the Kitab al-Tabikh. The Yogurt based sals is from the
Book of the Beloved.
<<regards, Puck >>
Ras
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:56:05 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: SC dried squid
At 8:17 PM -0700 9/19/00, lilinah at EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
>The Near East is not just one big expanse of well-stocked
>sophisticated urban environment. There are plenty of harsh dry
>environments, too, with limited availability of foodstuffs. I
>realize i have no documentation, I can only argue that it is
>possible.
I've just been reading two books (_God's Banquet_, which is about
food in classical Arabic literature, and a book on life under the
Abbasids, with a chapter on food) that have lots of period references
to food. One thing that is pretty clear is that the bedouin were
regarded as eating primitive and gross things--one of the more common
insults is that they ate lizards. I don't remember any references to
dried meat, however.
- --
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:44:49 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - HELP requested
A book entitled 'Al-Wuslah Ilal-Habeeb fi Wasfil-Tayyibat wal-Teeb,
attributed to Ibn al Adeem. Edited by Durrieh al Khatib and Sulaima Mahjoub.
Published by the Institute for the History of Arabic Science, University of
Aleppo, Aleppo, Syria. Volume one was published in 1987 and volume two in
1988. In Arabic.
Volume one is a treatise on the History of Foods of the Arabs by Sulaima
Mahjoub, and volume two is the complete text of the edited book with
extensive indices by Durrieh al Khatib. The book lists approximately 550
recipes for foods and drinks.
_________
The question is, does anyone know if these works have been translated into
English or if these works are being considered for translation? Since English
has replaced Latin as the language of Academia, I find it hard to believe
that such important works would be only available in Arabic.
Ras
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:12:58 -0800
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pt. 2 - Medieval Persian Iron Chef
Here are the recipes three dishes that were served on one tray:
Bustaniyya - Orchard Dish - spiced chicken and lamb with pears,
peaches, and almonds
Saffron Rice
Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates, stuffed with almonds
Anahita
---------------------
Bustaniya - Orchard Dish
Spiced Chicken and Lamb with Pears, Peaches, and Almonds
Fruit and meat cooked together is typically Near Eastern. "Bustan"
means "orchard" and this dish contains pears, peaches, and almonds
from the orchard.
Original:
Take small sour pears, wash and wrap in a moist cloth if they are
dried pears, but if they are fresh, then macerate them in water and
strain through a sieve. Then take chicken breasts, and cut them
lengthwise in finger-sized strips and add to it as much meat [lamb]
as you wish. Next throw in peaches and boil. Season the pot with
pepper and ma'kamakh, oil, some spices, some sugar, wine vinegar,
some almonds ground up fine; add to the pot. Then break eggs over and
allow to settle.
(by Abu Samin, "Father of Corpulence", in al-Wattaq, p. 119, in Waines)
I was not sure what was going on with the pears. Were the dried pears
being soaked and drained? soaked and sieved? Was only the liquid
used? Or was a puree used? It wasn't clear to me, so I used firm,
tangy Winter pears which cooked down.
25 Bosc pears
50 dried sulfured peach halves
10 pounds of boneless, skinless chicken thighs
10 pounds of boneless, skinless chicken breasts
10 pounds of cubed lamb (cut as for stew or kabobs)
water, as needed
1 ounce Ceylon cinnamon sticks
2 Tablespoons ground cinnamon
1 ounce powdered ginger
2 Tablespoons ground coriander seed
2 Tablespoons white pepper
1/4 cup salt, to taste
water, as needed
1 cup granulated white sugar
2 cups red wine vinegar
2 cups ground blanched almonds
20 eggs, beaten
1. Cut of stem and blossom ends from pears, halve, core, then cut so
each pear is in eight pieces.
2. Cut peach halves in half.
3. Cut chicken into finger-like or fajita-like strips.
4. Check lamb and trim off excess fat and remove any bones.
5. In wide deep pot place fruit, meats, spices, and salt. Add water,
a couple cups to each pot - more liquid will develop out of both the
meat and the fruit as the dish cooks.
6. Put on high heat, bring to boil, then reduce heat to medium or
medium-low, so liquid develops out of meat and fruit, and contents
simmer until done, about 1 hour.
7. Taste for seasoning and adjust as necessary - I added more salt.
8. Add sugar and vinegar, tasting and adjusting as necessary - should
have a pleasant slightly sweet-and-sour flavor.
9. Stir in almonds - sauce should thicken.
10. Stir in eggs - sauce should thicken further. I did not pour eggs
on top as original recipe suggests, since i was cooking all the meat
in two 3 gallon pots and there would be no way to distribute the eggs
evenly over the meat in the serving dishes.
11. Dish meat into serving dishes - surround with rice, and garnish.
---------------------
Arruz al-Zafran - Saffron Rice
<snip - see rice-msg>
---------------------
Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates stuffed with almonds, scented with rosewater
<snip - see dates-msg>
---------------------
These were served thus:
On ten round flat serving trays, a ring of rice was made around the
outside. The meat was mounded in the middle. And 10 dates were placed
evenly around the outer edge of the rice, the spaces between them
filled with garbanzo beans.
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 12:31:21 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Hummus period source wanted
Greetings, Violante:
You wrote:
>Does anyone know of or have a medieval or ancient recipe for hummus?
Hummos means chick peas, and chick peas are used in many surviving
Medieval Near Eastern recipes. However, i suspect you mean
hummos-bi-tahini, the puree of chick peas and tahini used in the
Levant as a sauce for falafel. I know of no Medieval or even
Renaissance period recipes for it.
The closest are a few recipes for salsa, the Arabic plural of sals, a
word most likely borrowed by Medieval Arabic speakers from a European
language, probably French. While the name is European in origin, the
recipes are quite Middle Eastern.
The surviving Middle Eastern recipe closest to modern
hummos-bi-tahini is Sals Abyad (White Sauce) which is a spiced
mixture of ground walnuts and tahini. While the original is
identified as a sauce, it doesn't say what it would be served with.
I hope this is of some help. If someone discovers another recipe that
is closer to hummos-bi-tahini, i'd love to see it, as it is a
favorite of mine, too.
Anahita
SALS ABYAD - White Sauce
Spiced Walnut-Sesame Sauce/Spread
ORIGINAL RECIPE:
from the 1373 CE "al-Kitab Wasf al-At'ima al-Mu'tada"
("The Book of the Description of Familiar Foods"),
translated by Charles Perry, in "Medieval Arab Cookery", p. 389
Walnuts, garlic, pepper, Chinese cinnamon, white mustard, tahineh and
lemon juice.
[that's the whole recipe]
MY RECIPE:
this has been adjusted downward from the one i made for 100 people.
This should make 2 to 3 cups.
1/2 pound shelled walnuts
2 cups sesame tahini from a Middle Eastern brand -
health food sesame paste doesn't work as well
1/2 to 1 ounce prepared garlic paste
with NO additives or preservatives
(or puree 1/2 to 1 ounce fresh garlic)
3/4 tsp ground black or white pepper
1-1/2 tsp powdered cinnamon
1/4 ounce yellow mustard powder (or you could experiment with Dijon mustard)
juice from 1 to 2 lemons
1-1/2 tsp. salt, or to taste
1. Grind walnuts finely, in nut grinder, blender, or food processor -
or pound in a mortar with a pestle. Do not grind to a paste, but
leave some texture.
2. Stir walnuts with one cup tahini.
3. Mix pureed garlic, pepper, cinnamon, mustard powder, and salt into
the other cup of tahini.
4. Blend seasoned tahini into walnut-tahini blend.
5. Let stand overnight for flavors to develop.
6. Shortly before serving stir in fresh lemon juice and add water to
achieve desired consistency.
7. Adjust seasonings to taste.
Serve with Near Eastern flat breads - I served Lavosh and a Persian
flat bread whose name I have forgotten. It would probably be good as
a vegetable dip in a modern setting.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:07:03 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Anahita wrote:
> What individual ingredients do you think of when someone sas "Middle
> Eastern"? What dishes?
>
> What else would people want to know about historical Middle Eastern
> food?
I think an important thing to know is that Middle Eastern Cuisine AS WE KNOW IT
is largely a product of the Ottoman Empire's assimilation of other cultures up
through the 19th Century. There aresimilar flavors in period sources, but
don't bother looking up "baklava" or "hummus" in Al-Baghdadi's 13th Century
cookery book because they are not there.
You know already about Cariadoc's Miscellany for good period recipes
and useful redactions.
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html> Particular goodies
therein that I would choose include Rishta [period pasta, yay!], Isfanakh
Mutajjan [cooked spinach with yummy spices -- vegan!], Hais [date balls,
theoretically caravan food for keeping a long time but it never lasts
that long around here] and the drink syrups.
Dame Selene Colfox
OP, OLC, OHA, ODC, SR etc.
Sable Fret Pursuivant
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:16:30 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [SCA-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
You might want to investigate or get into
the Library of Congress www.loc.gov
and search under--
Cookery, Mediterranean
Cookery, Middle Eastern
Middle East-- Social Life and Customs
Diet--Arab countries--History--o 1500.
Cookery--Arab countries--History--To 1500.
Cookery, Arab.
or you can keyword Middle East with food
as terms and see what you come up with.
There is a bibliography---
Vassilian, Hamo B.,
Ethnic cookbooks and food marketplace : a complete
biblographic guide & directory to Armenian, Iranian, Afghan,
Israeli, Middle Eastern, North African, and Greek foods in the U.S.A. &
Canada.
1992.
Titles that I own that you don't [mention] include:
Culinary Cultures of the Middle East edited
by Zubaida and Tapper.1994. This was released
as: Taste of thyme : culinary cultures of the Middle East
/ edited by Sami Zubaida and Richard Tapper ;
foreword by Claudia Roden. in 2000.
This is the only title that LC places under the sub. headings
Cookery, Middle Eastern istory.
Gelder, G. J. H. van
God's Banquet. Food in Classical Arab Literature.
2000.
Plus there are numerous volumes by Clifford Wright and
Claudia Roden.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
I now own Andrew Dalby's "Danerous Tastes" ($7) and Alan Davidson's
"Oxford Companion to Food" ($15 pprbk, called the Penguin Companion
to Food). Cheez, Davidson is so funny - it's a joy to read. Of course
i have the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook and "Medieval Arab Cookery"
> Still n the lookout for more books on the history of food in the
> Near and Middle East and - for personal info, not necessarily the
> class, Central and South Asia. So if anyone know of more good books
> on *historical* food ways...
> Anahita
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:35:28 +0200
From: "Ana . Vald?s" <agora at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
This is a quite interestinglink to comments about how the Crusades
changed the food landscape in the Middle East.
> http://jeru.huji.ac.il/ef41.htm
Ana
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:33:05 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> This is a quite interesting link to comments about how the Crusades
> changed the food landscape in the Middle East.
> http://jeru.huji.ac.il/ef41.htm
Actually this site is *highly* flawed. I wouldn't trust much if
anything it says about history, food history, costume history, etc...
I did copy some of the recipes, though, as they looked tasty, but
very far from "period".
Does anyone have any trustworthy info on the influence of Near
Eastern food ways on Europe via the Crusaders?
Anahita
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:30:43 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Home From Great Western War
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Stefan asked in several separate messages:
>Anahita commented:
> >-- A Dish of Chicken or Partridge with Quinces or Apples - includes
>>chopped fennel bulb and is topped with a tharid (13th c. Anonymous
> >Andalusian Cookbook)
>
>What is "tharid"?
It's moderately common in Near Eastern cooking, showing up in recipes
both from the Levant and from al-Andalus. It's a mixture of bread
crumbs (i've always used fresh), eggs, sometimes a little flour,
occasionally other things for flavor. It's spread over the top of all
the ingredients in the pot after they're cooked. After spreading in
the tharid, i've always covered the pot with a lid and cooked it
until the tharid is cooked through - just takes a few minutes.
It comes out like a giant dumpling topping (or a really good,
spread-out matzoh ball). The top of the tharid is usually sprayed
with rosewater and sprinkled with spices before serving. Muhammed
apparently said a tharid was his favorite dish (that is, the "stew"
with the topping) and likened his older wife, A'isha, to a tharid in
quality.
Anahita
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:35:07 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tharid?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Anahita commented:
> >>>
> -- A Dish of Chicken or Partridge with Quinces or Apples - includes
> chopped fennel bulb and is topped with a tharid (13th c. Anonymous
> Andalusian Cookbook)
> <<<
>
> What is "tharid"?
Tharid (or tharida, or tharda) is an Islamic dish with lots of
variants consisting of torn-up bread with stuff mixed in or poured
over. The stuff usually but not always includes meat--there is one
vegetarian tharid we made that reminded me of standard
bread/onion/herb turkey stuffing. Here is a very simple recipe (15th
c.):
"Meat is boiled and bread is moistened with the broth. Yoghurt,
garlic and mint are put with it and the meat is put with it. Likewise
there is a tharid without meat."
But there are ones with different kinds of meat and beans and other
vegetables and different seasonings and butter and eggs and... Look
at the Miscellany for several worked-out recipes.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Shish Kabab ton-o-questions
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
--- CLdyroz at aol.com wrote:
> Now, part of the presentation is have the Head Table presented with
> flaming Shish Kabab on fencing foils.
> Helen Hawksworth
> Beginning Cook
I think your idea of flaming shish kababs is a modern idea and not
done pre-1600. And if the
fencing foils aren't properly tempered they could be ruined by the
flames and/or ruin the meat by adding harmful metals to the meat.
You need to buy these books:
Medieval Arab Cookery / essays and translations by Maxime Rodinson,
A.J. Arberry & Charles Perry ;
with a foreward by Claudia Roden. [Devon, England] : Prospect Books,
2001. 527 p. ISBN 0907325912
If you want to do Medieval Middle Eatern food, this is the best book
to have.
and then there is:
The Ni`matnåøama manuscript of the sultans of Mandu : the Sultan's
book of delights / translated
by Norah M. Titley. London ; New York : Routledge, 2004.
xx, 121 p. ISBN 041535059X ISBN: 41535059X (cloth)
Although this is from India, it is from the Moghul Era, so it is
heavily influenced by the Persians. There are several kabab recipes in it.
Huette
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:07:04 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Andalusian = Middle Eastern?
To: SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org
Stefan wrote:
> I've heard Andalusian foods, and probably this specific site,
> suggested before for 'Middle Eastern' foods. I considered suggesting
> that myself in an an earlier message I posted to the Middle Eastern
> nibbles thread.
>
> However, what are the reasons to suggest that the foods of Andalusia
> were common or even used in the Middle East? They may both be Moslem,
> but Andalusia (I thought) was southern Spain and perhaps Morocco?
> That's a long way from the Middle East.
Two things here.
First, you are correct. Andalusia is NOT in the Middle East. Egypt
isn't in the Middle East either, being in North Africa. Istanbul is
not in the Middle East (it's in Europe).
The Middle East is Southwest Asia (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel,
Palestine, the countries of the Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Iran
(there's more but i'll stop here)).
But Andalusia, North Africa, and Southwest Asia are in a cultural
area better described as the Near East. This is because of shared
language, religion, and culture (clearly with regional differences).
Second, a comparison of surviving SCA-period Arab language cookbooks
shows that while there are regional differences (remember my
comparison of the seasonings in the Andalusian and al-Baghdadi
cookbooks), there are also a number of similarities. Cookbooks were
valued in Muslim cultures in SCA period. They were copied and traded
over great distances. The oldest known surviving copy of "The Book of
the Description of Familiar Foods" was written in Egypt, and another
was copied in Ottoman Turkey. Yet it contains nearly all recipes from
the surviving copies of al-Baghdadi's cookbook, plus many more
recipes. This shows that this cookbook not only was used in the
Middle East and in North Africa - where most people speak Arabic -
but was also used where the Turkish language was spoken.
The 13th c. Andalusian cookbook was not written by one author. Rather
it is composed of recipes and tidbits copied from a number of
different cookbooks. Chances are excellent at least some were
imported from the Eastern centers of Arabic culture.
> Who were the "Ilkhans" and what connections to the mongol rulers of
> China are you talking about?
The rulers of the Persian Empire who were the descendents of the
Mongols. (i think that answers both questions)
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:49:28 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle-Eastern 'Nibbles'?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
His version is quite dry but very tasty. Mine is more soft and I have been
told "you got it right". Dry is great if you want to store them. I want to
enjoy them now. Simply use fresh bread crumbs and the moist dates from the
local grocery store and I think butter is far better than the sesame oil
having tried both. I roll the cabobs (size/shape of a date) in superfine
sugar. This recipe was my first attempt in a cooking competition. It was
for snack foods and was judged along with the brewing competition. I took
the Silver Spoon. This would make a great addition to a 'nibbles' tray,
garnished with whole almonds and pistachios.
Katira al-Maghrebiyya
> From Duke Cariadoc's Miscellany:
> Hais
> al-Baghdadi p. 214/14 (GOOD)
> Take fine dry bread, or biscuit, and grind up well. Take a ratl of this,
> and three quarters of a ratl of fresh or preserved dates with the stones
> removed, together with three uqiya of ground almonds and pistachios. Knead
> all together very well with the hands. Refine two uqiya of sesame- oil, and
> pour over, working with the hand until it is mixed in. Make into cabobs,
> and dust with fine-ground sugar. If desired, instead of sesame-oil use
> butter. This is excellent for travellers.
> 2 2/3 c bread crumbs
> 2 c (about one lb) pitted dates
> 1/3 c ground almonds
> 1/3 c ground pistachios
> 7 T melted butter or sesame oil
> enough sugar
> We usually mix dates, bread crumbs, and nuts in a food processor or
> blender. For "cabobs," roll into one inch balls. Good as caravan food (or
> for taking to wars). They last forever if you do not eat them, but
> you do so they don't.
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:36:08 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Muslim Heritage
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Came across this site this morning--
http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx
Where there are reviews like this one--
12th Century Cookery from all the World By Kamaluddin Ibn Al-Adeem
(Edited by Ms Slama Mahjoob & Ms Duriyya Al-Khateeb)
Published by IHAS, university of Aleppo 1988, Vols. I & II, p.1076.
and articles titled
The Coffee Trail: Origins of the Muslim beverage
Thought people might like it.
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:25:55 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yeast in Islam
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I seem to recall a discussion on this list about whether or not yeast
was halal or - since it causes fruit juice to become a forbidden
alcoholic beverage - haram (forbidden).
I've been doing research for a class on Islamic Food Laws and
Traditions - and how food was served.
I have found information on modern concerns about food additives -
whether or not they are halal (lawful), haram (forbidden) or mashbuh
(suspect, uncertain).
Yeast shows up clearly as halal. So no need to worry about using it
to make bread or raised cakes.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:06:18 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another ME question
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
On 10/26/05 2:27 PM, "cldyroz at aol.com" <cldyroz at aol.com> wrote:
> Would walnuts work in Hais?
Pistachios have a very delicate flavor and a tender texture (i love
pistachios that are not salted, roasted, and dyed that awful red).
Almonds (unless boiled) tend to be rather hard and crisp (much
crisper when roasted). Walnuts have a tender texture, but a somewhat
bitter flavor. Another possibility is hazelnuts (aka filberts) which
were also used in the Near and Middle East. I would recommend using a
combination of walnuts in limited quantity and hazelnuts if you can
find and afford them, rather than substituting only walnuts for the
pistachios.
Selene wrote:
> Desert peoples are practical folk, if you have walnuts, use walnuts!
First, these are not the recipes of desert people. The idea that they
are just perpetuates the stereotypic notion that so many SCAdians
have that the Middle East is just a desert full of nomads on camels.
The Near and Middle East are much more complex geographically and
environmentally than that. And don't forget that the first cultivated
crops west of India and China began in the Middle East 10,000 years
ago - and crops are not cultivated in a desert.
There are major regions of the Near and Middle East with quite humid
climates - coastal areas of the Arabian peninsula, for example. Much
of the Near and Middle East is like coastal California, with a mild
Mediterranean climate. And there are high snow covered mountains in,
for example, Morocco and Lebanon (and ski resorts in Lebanon), some
of which have some snow most of the year.
Second, actual desert people have very limited diets. I've been
reading up on SCA-period non-urban Middle Eastern food. Actual desert
people subsisted largely on the dairy products of their flocks,
dates, and rough flat bread. Meat was only for very special
occasions, like weddings.
Third, walnuts don't grow in a desert. If desert people had them,
they would be a very expensive treat.
In fact, recipes such as that for hais are those of sophisticated
urban people. The recipes in al-Baghdadi, the Anonymous Andalusian,
and all the other SCA-period Near and Middle Eastern cookbooks i know
of (minus one) are the recipes of quite wealthy gourmets. Hais may
keep well and be useful for travellers, but it's for travellers with
a bit of scratch. Baghdad was possibly the most sophisticated city in
the world (west of China) for much of SCA period. It had a huge
population and was a trade and cultural center with a wealth of
foodstuffs and trade goods.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:28:58 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hais report
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Stefan wrote:
> Maybe. Or they might have actually preferred butter, but as someone
> pointed out, this is a desert food or at least a food meant to keep
> for awhile. Butter will go bad quicker than sesame oil will.
Actually, it's quite clear from reading SCA-period Arabic language
cookbooks that sesame oil is the preferred oil/fat in much cooking,
other than fat-tailed sheep tail fat for cooking meat. Olive oil was
for the poor who could not afford sesame oil. When oil is specified,
it is sesame oil - otherwise, the text may say "good oil". Sesame oil
is used in cooking meats, vegetables, and sweets.
It has little to do with "desert". Again, this is falling into the
trap of stereotypes about the Near and Middle East. The
desertification of much of the Near and Middle East is primarily due
to human activities - agriculture and the destruction of native
plants. This began back 2,000 BCE by the Akkadians and Assyrian
Mesopotamian cultures' vast irrigation projects and the deforestation
of the Levant by Canaanites and Phoenicians cutting down the cedars
to sell them to Egypt, among other things.
But while much of the area may be arid, it isn't all desert. For
example, much of Texas and much of California is arid, but this
doesn't make these areas deserts. And there are even some humid,
almost tropical regions on the coast of the Arabian Peninsula.
Butter shows up in recipes on rare occasions. To make butter you need
a milk in which the fat particles are larger and separate from the
liquid easily, like cow's milk. But sheep and goats are the more
typical dairy animals in the region, and sheep and goat milk are more
naturally homogenized than cow milk, so it would have been harder to
make butter from their milk.
Also, these cookbooks come from the highest, most SOPHISTICATED
levels of URBAN societies, and do not generally represent the foods
of the huddled masses or the desert nomads. This is HAUTE CUISINE.
These are GOURMET recipes. There were even ice store houses to keep
foods cool in the summer in Baghdad for the elite.
Hais may be mentioned as food for travel, but travel was difficult
even for the wealthy elite, and one needed to bring much with one for
times when one is not in a city where there were many cookshops.
The people who wrote and used these cookbooks were quite unlike those
who wrote surviving European cookbooks. These books were often
compiled by or written for a class of gourmands and gourmets who
spent evenings dining on fine foods and composing poetry about food.
One very famous cookbook from the 9th century was written by the
half-brother of a Caliph, who became a Caliph himself for a brief
period (he was known as the Anti-Caliph).
These are not the recipes of simple crude pastoralists wandering the
desert. These are cookbooks of wealthy, important, educated,
powerful, elite, urbane, urban sophisticates.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:56:00 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Al-Baghdadi - Perry's favorites
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
As promised earlier: When Renata and I went to our last meeting of the
Culinary Historians of Southern California, org prez Charles Perry signed
our copies of his new translation of A BAGHDAD COOKERY-BOOK. He mentioned a
couple of his favorites from the text, so we had him flag them in the table
of contents. I am typing them in ascii-friendly format, without diacritical
marks [accents, etc.] and italicized foreign words between slashes /like
this/. Footnote numbers are [bracketed] and footnotes follow each recipe
respectively.
-=-=-=-
ZIRBAJ. [1] The way to make it is to cut up fat meat small and put it in
the pot, with enough water on it to cover it and pieces of cinnamon, peeled
chickpeas and a little salt. When it boils, take away its scum. Then throw
on a pound of wine vinegar, a quarter of a pound of sugar [2] and an ounce
of peeled sweet almonds, pounded fine. Mix with rose-water and vinegar,
then throw them on the meat. Throw on a /dirham/ (each) of ground
coriander, pepper and wieved mastic, then color it with saffron. [3] Put a
handful of split [peeled] almonds on top of the pot. Sprinkle a little
rose-water on it, wipe its sides with a clean cloth, leave it on the fire to
grow quiet, and take itup. If you like to put chicken in it, take a plucked
hen and wash it and joint it. When the pot comes to the boil, throw it on
the meat to become done.
[1] First element unclear, from persian /zir/ 'beneath; weak; anything
dressed under roast meat'? Second element Middle Persian /bag/ 'stew'
[2] 'and if instead of sugar, some syrup, that is permitted; from the
/Minhaj/. (/Minhaj/ actually reads 'Instead of syrup you could put a
pound of pounded sugar crystals, that is permitted.')
[3] 'If you want it to be thick, put starch with the saffron; from the
/Minhaj/.
-=-=-=-
FAKHITIYYA [1] The way to make it is to cut lean fat meat [2] in small
strips and stew it in tail fat as described before. Then cover it with
water until it boils, and take its scum away. Make finely pounded lean meat
into middle-sized meatballs and put (spices) in them, [3] then throw them in
the pot. Put in small pieces of onions and throw in a little salt, cumin,
coriander, pepper, mastic and cinnamon, all ground fine. When it is nearly
done, take Persian yogurt and strained sumac juice, mix them together and
then throw them in the pot. Take peeled walnuts, pound them fine and beat
them to a liquid consistency with the sumac juice. Throw them in the pot.
Then crumble branches of dry mint into the pot and leave it to grow quiet
for awhile. Then sprinkle a little rose-water on it, wipe its sides with a
clean cloth and take it up.
[1] From /fakhita/, 'the wood dove', because the purplish colour resembles
its throat patch.
[2] In every other recipe in this book, a distinction was made between fat
meat, /lahn samin,/ and 'red' meat, /lahn ahmar,/ which is lean meat. Only
in this recipe is meat described as fat and 'red' at the same time. This
was a scribal error, or at least it was felt as such, to judge from the fact
that the manuscripts derived from the book have chosen one description or
the other. The London manuscript of /Kitab al-Tabikh/ calls for /lahn
ahmar,/ and /Kitab Wasf al-At'ima al Mu'tada/ calls for /lahn samin/.
[3] The word 'spices' has been omitted here, and as a result this passage
might be read 'put them (the meatballs) in it (the pot), then throw them in
the pot'. The London /Kitab al-Tabikh/ repeats this absurd wording, but
/Kitab Wasf/ says to put spices in the meatballs, as described in all other
meatball recipes, and then to put them in the pot.
Your faithful trans-scribe,
Selene Colfox
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:02:15 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] In a Caliph's Kitchen
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
The professor of a class, History 498 C - Tutorial on Pleasure and
Vice in the Pre-Modern Middle East, has photocopied "In a Caliph's
Kitchen" and turned the photocopies into PDF files. The book is
divided into three files which are rather large (took a looong time
on my dial-up connection)
You can access them here:
http://www.csun.edu/~rthowes/498%20Readings%20Home%20Page.html
There's also a piece about drinking, which i haven't read yet, by the
8th century writer, al-Jahiz, excerpted from "Sobriety and Mirth: A
Selection of the Shorter Writings of al-Jahiz", by Abu Uthman Amir
Ibn Bahir al-Jahiz, Translated by Jim Colville, and some other
interesting looking stuff.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:38:56 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Curious Quick Request...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Islam isn't a force in the Middle East until around 650, byt which time it
held the Arabioan Peninsula. By 700, it was a significant force in North
Africa and moving east into the rest of the Middle East. While the Jews had
dietary restrictions, did the pre-Islamic Arabs have the same? One also
need remember that most of this was part of the Eastern Roman Empire at the
time, so a Roman recipe for pork might not be out of order. Even after 700,
the Byzantine controlled areas would probably have pork.
Bear
============
Uh... dude, do the words Kosher or Halal mean anything to you? Nobody in
that area would touch the stuff during the medieval period, or pretty much
since. I don't mean to be flippant but think really hard about this question.
Selene
rattkitten at bellsouth.net wrote:
<<< Ok now here is a weird one...
Does anyone have a Middle Eastern Period Pork Recipe? Are there any?
Within the next 2 hours would be great... you can even tell me where to
simply look online (other than the Florilegium... I can't get sucked in
today...) ;) I am simply looking to point out one to someone else...
Nichola >>>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:51:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Curious Quick Request...
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
<<< Does anyone have a Middle Eastern Period Pork Recipe? Are there any? Within the next 2 hours would be great... you can even tell me where to simply look online (other than the Florilegium... I can't get sucked in today...) ;) I am simply looking to point out one to someone else...
Nichola >>>
Christians living in Middle Eastern countries technically could eat pork, but even the presence of pigs would have been considered unclean by their Muslim neighbors/lords. Although Christians could live as dhimmi (subject peoples) and continue to worship as Christians in Islamic lands, the keeping/eating of pigs would have pushed things a little too far.
In countries where Muslims and Jews were driven out (Spain and Southern Italy and Sicily), pork went back on the menu and the hanging of sausages and hams in the home was a very definite way of showing the Church and the Inquisition that you were definitely not Moorish, Jewish, or a lapsed converso.
So, I don't think there were even Christian pork recipes in Middle Eastern lands; you wouldn't have been able to get pork at the local market and raising a pig would probably get you and your family slaughtered or your home burned down, or at the very least make it totally impossible to do business with your Muslim neighbors.
Gianotta
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:54:53 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Curious Quick Request...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Define Middle East, I suppose.
This e-notes article on Byzantine Empire Food by Andrew Dalby
http://www.enotes.com/food-encyclopedia/byzantine-empire
mentions "/Timarion,/ a satirical poem of the twelfth century, suggests
salt pork and cabbage stew as being a typical poor man's meal, eaten
from the bowl with the fingers just as it would have been in
contemporary western Europe."
The place to look for the Byzantine connections would be
Dalby, Andrew. /Flavours of Byzantium/. Totnes, Devon, U.K.: Prospect
Books, 2003.
Johnnae
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:46:02 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Curious Quick Request...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Middle East? Commonly, the areas that form the Middle East are Iran, Iraq,
Caucus, Turkey, the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt, Libya, and
Tunisia. The Byzantine Empire falls within the Middle East. Between 300 CE
and 651 CE much of the Middle East was divided between Byzantium and the
Parthians.
According to George Rawlinson in The Story of Parthia (1893), the Parthians
ate pork.
Bear
<<< Define Middle East, I suppose.
This e-notes article on Byzantine Empire Food by Andrew Dalby
http://www.enotes.com/food-encyclopedia/byzantine-empire
mentions "/Timarion,/ a satirical poem of the twelfth century, suggests
salt pork and cabbage stew as being a typical poor man's meal, eaten from
the bowl with the fingers just as it would have been in contemporary
western Europe."
The place to look for the Byzantine connections would be
Dalby, Andrew. /Flavours of Byzantium/. Totnes, Devon, U.K.: Prospect
Books, 2003.
Johnnae >>>
<the end>