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Food of Medieval Byzantine. References.

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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:32:31 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: SC - Fw: Klibanos- More from the Byzantine List

- ----------

: From: Peter Raftos <greeting at zip.com.au>

: To: phlip at bright.net

: Subject: Klibanos

: Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 3:57 AM

: Many thanks Phillipa,

: If you are interested in period Byzantine food then Siren Feasts by

: Andrew Dalby has one chapter on Byzantine gastronomy worth looking at

: Biscuits from Byzantium. While there are a few references - more than I

: thought - there are fewer recipes but lots of raw materials and

: ingredients are named. I'm working on an article for our journal the

: Varangian Voice. I hope to build a klibanos and then cook with it. Dalby

: also mentions klibanites a pita style bread. This was cooked in the

: klibanos. The term for heavily armoured Byzantine cavalry -

: klibanophoros - oven carrier- is derived from this word.

: While no recipes are given some names of dishes are - roast pork basted

: in honey wine etc, - there are good leads to foodstuffs and primary

: documents written by dieticians of the day! These don't seem too

: disimilar in intent to the seasonal dietary regimes of traditional

: chinese medicine - but I haven't read the originals. Dalby follows

: Taxiarchos Kolias' paper on mess practice and provisioning in the

: Byzantine Army - unfortunateley for me my high school German is rusty,

: nor do I have an english translation and I don't know how reliable

: Kolias is. So from the start I have to assume that Kolias' paper is

: valid and that Dalby's interpretation is fair.

: As the staple food of the army was cereal it could be consumed either as

: porridge, bread or biscuit. Dalby cites piston a millet porridge and

: trakhanas which is made from cracked emmer (or other grains) mixed with

: sour milk then dried in balls. Trakhanas can be bought ready made at

: Greek Deli's. I have eaten chicken using trakhanas as a stuffing when I

: visited Sparta earlier this year - yum.

: One biscuit is mentioned - paximadion (s), paximadia(pl.) named after

: the Hellenistic cook Paximus. Dalby says that knowledge of this biscuit

: spread more widely onwards from Byzantium than the luxuries it was famed

: for. He gives us its name in a couple of languages: Arabic bashmat,

: baqsimat, Turkish beksemad, Serbo-Croat peksimet, Romania pesmet, and

: Venitian pasimata.

: Paximadia were eaten by frugal priests and were part of the army's

: rations. They are still eaten today in Hellas and the old Byzantine

: lands. Paximadia are traditionally eaten as food for Lent or weekly fast

: days- Wednesday and Friday- in the Orthodox church. Generally people

: don't restrict themselves to these times to enjoy paximadia. They dunk

: them in something wet and chew away any old time. You will find a sweet

: variety available at Hellenic bakeries and cake shops. These are made on

: a butter based dough. Nowdays the sweet variety come in these flavours:

: aniseed, vanilla, cinnamon and in more recent times chocolate. The flour

: used nowdays is whole wheat flour. Dalby says the original article used

: barley flour.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:00:03 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: SC - Fw: Klibanos

Here's more good information on early Byzantine cooking and sites, for

those who may be interested.

- ----------

: From: Peter Raftos <greeting at zip.com.au>

: To: phlip at bright.net

: Subject: Klibanos

: Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 6:42 AM

: YES PLEASE!! The more URL's the merrier. Most of the guy's I know are

: heavily into researching weapons,fighting etc. I find the social history

: side a lot more fascinating. Since I look like a hairier version of

: Danny De Vito you can imagine my interest in social history hovers quite

: near anything edible or potable. On the New Varangian Guard URL are some

: Byzantine recipes. Can't say where we got them from but I hope to add

: some myself.

: http://www.physics.mq.edu.au/~gnott/Miklagard/Articles/ByzRecipes.html

: You will find Dalby's references tantalising. The 1984 Taxiarchos Kolias

: article which I loosely translate as " Mess practice and Provisioning in

: the Byzantine Army" is 'Essgewohnheiten und Verplegung im Byzantinischen

: Heer' in Byzantinos. Festschrift fur Herbert Hunger zum 70. Geburtstag,

: eds,W. Horander et al., Vienna,pp.193-202. Sorry my e-mail - read I -

: can't do scharfes s or umlauts;)

: Some other foodish things to look at can be found here

http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/hd/fak7/hist/o1/logs/mt/t7/940815-052/i

ndex.html

: And a little general Byzantika here:

http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/hd/fak7/hist/o1/logs/mt/t5/940223-029/i

ndex.html

: An interesting review of an interesting lecture can be found here:

: http://www.bway.net/~halsall/texts/byzeur.txt

: Another publication you may find of interest in researching the ethnic

: make up of Byzantium - which I will have to get around to reading one

: day myself - but comes highly recommended is 'Studies on the Internal

: Diaspora of the Byzantine Empire' ed. Ahrweiler and Laiou.

: Have you visited the Dumbarton Oaks URL?

: http://www.doaks.org/Byzantine.html

: You probably have. Oh well enough of me getting carried away with

: Byzantika. And yes any info on joining an early cooking list would be

: great.

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:45:30 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?

While I don't have any particular interest in Byzantine, let me send you a

few items I've collected along the way.

Bear

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medweb/links.htm

http://bway.net/~halsall/bsinternet.html

http://jeru.huji.ac.il/open_screen2.htm

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/islam/nbLinks/Islam_Food_Farming.ht

Re: Byzantine Food/D...

On Mon, 22 Aug 1994, Henry Marks wrote:

> I have the first two references you cited, but appreciate the Byzantine

> bulletinboard. I am working on researching Byzantine foods as prepared and

> served, so I am most certainly interested in recipes

Anthony Bryer, Byzantine Porridge, in Hnery Mayr-Harting and R. I. Moore

eds, Studies in Medieval History presented to R. H. C. Davis, (Hambledon

Press 1985), pp. 1 - 6.

[Submitted by: "R.I. Moore" <R.I.Moore at NEWCASTLE.AC.UK>

Mon, 22 Aug 1994 19:53:12 +0100]

Re: Byzantine Foods

A short introduction on Byzantine food can be found in the Oxford

Dictionary of Byzantium (ed. in ch. A.P. Kazhdan) (1991). The lemma

Diet provides a small bibliography.

In addition, from the bibliography of an article (in Dutch) by

a colleague of mine - E.M. van Midden - on this topic:

- - J. Andre, L'alimentation et la cuisine a Rome, Paris 1981

- - H. Eideneier, `Ptochoprodromos' Tafelfreud und Tafelleid',

in Fest und Alltag in Byzanz, G. Prinzing / D. Simon eds.,

Muenchen 1990 (77-90)

- - E. Kislinger, `Ernaehrung. Byzantinisches Reich', in Lexikon

des Mittelalters III, 1986 (2171-74)

- - Ph. Koukoules, Vizantinon vios ke politismos V, Athens 1952

(9-135) (in ODB referred to as: Koukoules, Bios)

- -E. Patlagean, Pauvrete economique et pauvrete sociale a

Byzance. IVe-VIIe s., Paris 1977 (36-53)

- -- in Dutch:

- - E.M. van Midden, Konstantinopel voor lekkerbekken?, in

Lychnari jaargang 7, nummer 3 (30-31) (a non-specialist

introduction)

- - J.M. van Winter, Van soeter cokene: recepten uit de oudheid

en middeleeuwen, Haarlem 1976 (recipes from Antiquity and

Middle Ages)

Most of the books and articles referred to present a general

picture, but their references might help any more in depth

study. I will ask my colleague for further information.

Hope this is of any help

Jan van Ginkel

Centre for Classical, Oriental, Mediaeval and Renaissance Studies

University of Groningen

[Submitted by: Jan van Ginkel <VGINKEL at LET.RUG.NL>

Tue, 23 Aug 1994 11:56:27 +0200]

Re: Byzantine Foods

Some additional resources...George Galavaris, *Bread and the Liturgy: The

Symbolism of Early Christian and Byzantine Bread Stamps*. Also, look

into excavation reports from those expeditions with (published) Byzantine

materials, especially with debris from wells (pottery, and with any

luck, floral and faunal remains analyzed); for example, Charles Hill

Morgan, *The Byzantine Pottery* in the Corinth Excavation series (1942),

published by the American School of Classical Studies at Athens.

[Submitted by: Barbara McLauchlin <barbaram at MERCURY.SFSU.EDU>

Tue, 23 Aug 1994 21:24:29 -0700]

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:46:18 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: Fw: Fw: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?

Here's a response from Byzantine List.

Phlip

- -----Original Message-----

From: WA2KBZ at aol.com <WA2KBZ at aol.com>

To: BYZANS-L at showme.missouri.edu <BYZANS-L at showme.missouri.edu>

Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 1:25 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?

>Hi, Also influenced by (and influenced) Persians. Two kinds of fare; peasant

>and upper class. Olives, lamb some beef and bread, wine kid (goat) and rice

>as well as fish and fowl in coastal areas were and are popular. Upper class

>continued Roman dishes for some time (including a yucky fish sauce) and

>gradually blended with eastern foods. As resources such as time and money

>permitted, elaborately prepared meals, eaten at leisurely symposia, which

>included both discussion and concerts were popular with the wealthy and

>powerful. If you write Dr. Bruce Kraig (a great History prof. at Roosevelt

>U.) he may give you some special guidance, being an historical cuisine expert.

>Karl S.

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:59:14 -0600

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?

Archestratus, The Life of Luxury. 330 B.C. Translation and commentary,

John Wilkins & Shaun Hill, Prospect Books, Devon, UK, 1994. I

think I got mine from Poison Pen Press.

He mentions Byzantium. He also mentions other cities around the

Mediterranean Sea. He may be too early, but it wouldn't hurt to look.

There are comments along with the fragments of poem by Archestratus,

listing various ideas as to what a particular fish may have been, etc.

Fragment 24. [Athenaeus 104f] Archestratus in his much feted poem: But

leave aside a lot of the fancy nonsense and buy yourself a lobster

[astakos] which has long and heavy hands but small feet, and advances

only slowly over the land. They are most numerous and the best of all

for quality in the Lipari islands. The Hellespont also gathers many

together. p. 63.

The comment for this fragment lists other writers describing lobsters.

I've spent some lovely hours looking at my Byz. costume books, art books,

etc. There seem to be little except religeous examples, because art

historians don't seem to regard other art as 'significant'. Four

examples may have food:

1. The birth of Mary, as St. Anne is offered food to restore her

strength. (In one example, it's too blurred to be sure if she's being

handed a swadled baby or a leg of lamb)

2. The Marriage at Cana; first of the miracles, you sometimes see food on

the table.

3. Salome dances before Herod at the banquet.

4. Peter's Mum-in-law gets up from her sick bed after being healed, and

fixes dinner.

Basically, the only examples are whole chicken and/or whole fish. These

are things a poor artist, or one working with a difficult medium or tiny

size, as in manuscripts, can make realistic enough in outline to be

recognizeable.

Allison

allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA

Kingdom of Aethelmearc

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:00:10 -0800

From: "James L. Matterer" <jlmatterer at labyrinth.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Byzantine Sources

Several years ago there was in circulation a newsletter entitled EARLY

PERIOD. I know very little about this publication except that it dealt

with mostly pre-1000 recreation, and was produced by people involved

with the SCA. A good friend gave me xerox copies of issues 1-27, which I

had covered and bound.

In issue 5 was an article called Byzantine Foods which contained 7

recipes, along with this documentation:

Chantiles, Vilma Liacouras. The Food of Greece. Avenel, 1979.

Diehl, Charles. Byzantium: Greatness and Decline. Rutgers University

Press, 1957

Haussig, H.W. A History of Byzantine Civilization. Praeger, 1971.

Rice, Tamara Talbot. Everyday Life in Byzantium. Dorset, 1967.

Last March two SCA ladies wrote me asking if I could help them find

Byzantine recipes. I posted the recipes from EARLY PERIOD on the web so

they and everyone else could have access to them. The URL is:

http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen/letters/letter05.htm

Sadly, I can't credit an author for the article or even any info on the

publication itself, as none was included in the copies I was given, nor

in the originals that they were conceived from. Neither can I attest for

their accurateness or complete authenticity; still, I thought they may

prove of interest to some of you.

Huen/Jim Matterer

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 05:00:32 -0500

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: SC - Byzantine foods.

You might want to get a copy of Anthimus. Anthimus was a physician, writing

to Theodoric, King of the Franks on healthy food and good eating habits in

470 or thereabouts, from Byzantium.

Phlip

Philippa Farrour

Caer Frig

Southeastern Ohio

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:56:29 -0500

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: SC - Fw: Prosphora

Here's more on the bread molds.

Phlip

Philippa Farrour

Caer Frig

Southeastern Ohio

- -----Original Message-----

From: Peter Raftos <greeting at zip.com.au>

To: phlip at morganco.net <phlip at morganco.net>

Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 1:04 AM

Subject: Prosphora

>Hi Phillipa,

>I've seen your posts concerning prosphora on Byzans-L and the SCA cooks

>list. As you know, bread and grain were "controlled substances" -

>especially in C'nople- because of their sometime scarcity as well as the

>fact that commercial life was controlled in a pretty sophisticated way

>( see the 9th C Book of the Eparch by Leo VI

>To eparchikon biblion. The book of the Eparch.

>Ed as Le livre du Prefet. With an introd. by Ivan Dujcev. (London:

>Variorum Reprints, 1970)

>English trans. The Book of the Eparch. Byzantine Guilds, Professional

>and Commerical Ordinannces of Leo VI. C. 895 from the Book of the

>Eparch, trans. E. H. Freshfield, (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press,

>1938)

>English trans. Book of the Prefect, trans A.E.R.Boak, Journal of

>Economic and Business History, 1 (1929), 600-19 )

>This book out lines wonderful things like when fires had to be put out

>and who had exemptions from specific rules. Breadmaking and supply were

>a "big deal" which for many of us, with supermarkets and

>industrialisation, is literally a thing of the past (

>http://crh.choate.edu/history/_discfall/00000087.htm ). Outside of the

>church I believe that bread stamps were used to denote point of origin

>and to control the supply of bread ( not to mention paying taxes). The

>church's practice seems to be a vestigal imperial practice which may go

>back to Late Antiquity or earlier. I have no references yet as it is

>something that needs more research time than I have. Modern prosphora

>stamps can be of wood or plastic. In the past they have been made of

>wood, ceramic, and metal. Designs have varied over the ages but have

>settled at one (at least in the Greek Orthodox Church). Anti-doron is

>the bread given out to those not participating in communion. I can't

>recall seeing it stamped but it may have been in Byzantine times for the

>reasons mentioned above.

>Here are some helpful links. The first link is the most comprehensive

>and also has Orthodox Paschal, Lenten and Festal recipes as well as a

>recipe for Kollyva...boiled grain offering for the dead, a lovely pagan

>practice which goes back to Ancient Greece. The other two are useful for

>understanding the Orthodox perspective on bread.

>http://www.prosphora.org/

>http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/inchurch/prosphor.htm

>http://www.suc.org/culture/library/religious/Lord_Teach_Us_To_Pray/Prosphor

a.html

>If you have a local Orthodox church they sometimes have a good library

>and will often let you research there if not borrow books. Yes these

>books have an orthodox ecclesiastical bent but if you read between the

>lines much information and other sources can be culled. Another nice

>essay on Byzantium is to be found at found at

>http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/epstein_trends.html

> And did you know sauerkraut is period for Byzantium. Monasteries today

>still make the stuff.

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:38:38 EST

From: Devra at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Polish manuscripts & future title (drool)

After the discussion a while ago on this, I thought people might be

interested in William Woys Weaver's statement in his article about Maria

Dembinska in the most recent PPC: "In fact, there are no manuscript recipes

surviving from medieval Poland...."

This is a great issue, by the way. It also has a biblography of Danish cook

books (1616-1800.)

Further, in Andrew Dalby's article on mastic, he refers in a footnote to

"Andrew Dalby, Flavours of Byzantium, Prospect Books, forthcoming." Since Mr

Dalby is the author of Siren Feasts and Classical Cooking, as well as a new

book, Dangerous Taste: The Story of Spices, this is both hopeful and

tantalizing. Unfortunately, Flavours of Byzantium is NOT on the list of

forthcoming books at the back of PPC, so its projected pub date

is..um..unclear. *sigh*

Devra the Baker

Devra Langsam

www.poisonpenpress.com

devra at aol.com

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:42:50 +0200

From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de

Subject: SC - Byzantium (incl. non-English stuff)

<< Can anyone point me to web links/info about Byzantium and their

food?? >>

The traditional way to find info is to look through the handbooks and

journals of Byzantium Studies, a scholarly field flourishing since the

1890ies or so. E.g., flipping through a bibliographic supplement (1994)

to the "Byzantinische Zeitschrift" some months ago, I found references

to several articles related to food, table manners, wine, dietetics,

eating in the army, porridge, silver spoons with inscriptions to

stimulate table conversation ... Now, I suppose that in the other 90 or

so volumes of this journal there should be further articles or

references. Be prepared to find non-English material/references, too.

Best, Thomas

[[ I include my randomly taken notes:

Anthimus: De observatione ciborum ad Theodoricum regum Francorum

epistula. Iteratis curis edidit et in linguam germanicam transtulit E.

Liechtenhan. Berlin 1963 (Corpus medicorum latinorum VIII/1).

Barrate, F.: Vaisselle d'argent, souvenirs littÈraires et maniËres de

table. L'exemple des cuillers de Lampsaque. In: Cahiers Arch. [?] 40

(1992) 5-20.

Bryer, Ant.: Byzantine porridge. In: Mayr-Harting, H./ Moore, R.I.

(eds.): Studies in Medieval history presented to R.H.C. Davis.

(Hambledon Press) 1985, 1-6.

Curtis, R.I.: Garum and salsamenta. Production and commerce in materia

medica. Leiden/ New York/ Kopenhagen/ Kˆln 1991 (Studies in Ancient

Medicine 3).

Diethart, J.: Papyri aus byzantinischer Zeit als Fundgrube f¸r

lexikographisches und realienkundliches Material. In: Analecta

Papyrologica 2 (1990) 81-114. [Unter anderem ¸ber Bezeichnungen f¸r

Haushaltsger‰te, Nahrungsmittel.]

Diethart, J./ Kislinger, E.: Aprikosen und Pflaumen. In: Jahrbuch der

÷sterreichischen Byzantinistik 42 (1992) 75-78.

Giangos, Th.: Apospasmata agnostou hagioreitikou typikou sto anthologio

"Hermeneiai ton entolon tou Kyriou". In: Epist. Epet. tes Theol. Schol.

Panep. Thessalonikes, Tmema Poimantikes. Thessalonike 1 (1990) 325-358.

[excerpts from dietary rules, 11th cent.; see Byz. Zs., Suppl. Bibl. I,

Nr. 624.]

Hauser, S.R.: Sp‰tantike und fr¸hbyzantinische Silberlˆffel. Bemerkungen

zur Produktion von Luxusg¸tern im 5. bis 7. Jahrhundert. M¸nster 1992

(Jahrbuch f¸r Antike und Christentum, Erg‰nzungsband 19).

Hope, C.A.: Excavations at Ismant el-Kharab in the Dakhleh Oasis. In.

Bull. Austral. Centre for Egyptol. 1 (1990) 42-54. [u.a. Bericht ¸ber

ein Haushaltsbuch; byz.?]

Kislinger, E.: Retsina e balnea. Consumo e commercio del vino a

Bisanzio. In: Storia del vino. A cura di P. Scarpi. Milano 1991, 77-84

(Homo edens II).

Koder, Joh.: Gem¸se in Byzanz. Die Versorgung Konstantinopels mit

Frischgem¸se im Lichte der Geoponika. Wien 1993.

Kolias, Taxiarchos: Essgewohnheiten und Verpflegung im Byzantinischen

Heer. In: Horander, W. u.a. (Hg.): Byzantinos. Festschrift f¸r Herbert

Hunger zum 70. Geburtstag. Wien 1984, 193-202.

Kruit, N.: The meaning of various words related to wine. Some new

interpretations. In: ZPE 90 (1992) 265-276 (s. Byzantinische

Zeitschrift, Supplementum bibliographicum I, S. 31).

Michael Psellus: De victus ratione. Paris 1526; Basel 1529.

Paviot, J.: Cuisine grecque et cuisine turque selon l'expÈrience des

voyageurs (XVe-XVIe siËcles). In: Bryer, A./ Ursinus, M. (eds.):

Manzikert to Lepanto. The Byzantine World and the Turks 1071-1571.

Amsterdam 1991 (Byzantinische Forschungen 16).

Rossiter, J.: Convivium and villa in late antiquity. In: Slater, W.J.

(ed.): Dining in a classical context. Ann Arbor (University of Michigan

Press) 1991, 199-214.

Symeon Seth: Syntagma per literarum ordinem de cibariorum facultate

(...) Lilio Gregorio Gyraldo interprete. Griechisch und lateinisch hg.

von G. Gyraldus. Paris 1538.

Symeon Seth: Simeonis Sethi Magistri Antiocheni volumen de Alimentorum

facultatibus: nunc vero per Dominicum Monthesaurum correctum [et] pene

reformatum. Basel 1561.

Symeon Seth: De alimentorum facultatibus juxta ordinem literarum

digestum (...) emendatum et Latina versione donatum a M. Bogdano. Paris

1658.

Symeon Seth: De alimentorum facultatibus. Ed. B. Langkavel. Leipzig

1868. [Siehe dazu die sehr kritische Abhandlung von Helmreich, Ansbach

1913.]

Tinnefeld, F.: Zur kulinarischen Qualit‰t byzantinischer Speisefische.

In: Studies in the Mediterranean World, Past and Present, 11 (Tokyo

1988) 155-175. ]]

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:16:14 -0700

From: "Wanda Pease" <wandapease at bigfoot.com>

Subject: RE: SC - Byzantium

> Andrea asked:

> >Can anyone point me to web links/info about Byzantium and their food??

Not necessarily food, but the most comprehensive site for Byzantine studies

and "stuff" is at:

http://www.bway.net/~halsall/byzantium.html

I'd also recommend going to the ORB website (linked with the above). The

sites are built for and maintained by scholars in the field, but it's been

my experience that an interested and polite question about something

specific (they get a bit antsy if they think you want to use them rather

than do your own research for a school paper) is treated as sincere. At

least one of the "scholars" has been on the BoD. He has real academic

credentials and teaches Medieval Studies at a university. Ah what the SCA

did to some kids!

Regina Romsey

Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:27:46 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Earth Melon?

What's the source or work that he's using?

You might read Dalby's Siren Feasts for

information on melons in classical times.

Dalby's new book on Byzantine cuisine and

foods is not out yet as far as I know.

Andrew Dalby, THE FLAVOURS OF BYZANTIUM,

ISBN 1-903018-14-5. Prospect Books. 2002.

Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis

Debra Hense wrote:>

> My friend, Demetrios, posed this question.

> "I have come across a reference to an earth melon in a text on

> Byzantine cuisine. It is in a chapter on mushrooms, truffles and

> root crops. Does anyone have any (documentable) idea what it

> might be."

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:34:01 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine Cooking was Good morning from Greece

david friedman wrote:>

> Have you found any Byzantine cookbooks, or at least recipes contained

> in non-cookbooks? It's one of the big holes in the body of pre-1600

> recipes currently known by people like us.

Actually the volume may be on the way that will

help plug this hole...

Andrew Dalby, THE FLAVOURS OF BYZANTIUM, ISBN 1-903018-14-5.

Tom Jaine at Prospect Books has put up the following:

"The price looks like =A325.00, cloth bound.

Andrew Dalby seems pretty bullish about completion

of the text and there is not usually much subsequent

work to do on his copy (an ideal author), so

this may well be autumn 2002."

Another forthcoming title from Prospect is:

Sally Grainger & Chris Grocock, APICIUS, ISBN 1-903018-13-7.

"This is a big book; the price will be at least =A335.00,

cloth bound. I think the authors/editors have

quite a lot of work and quite a lot of other commitments,

so we must be patient about the arrival

of the text. I may need to be quite rich, too,

to publish it. Probably 2003/4 is realistic."

Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:10:08 -0500

From: "Debra Hense" <DHense at ifmc.org>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] while you were off to pennsic

My friend presented the following announcement:

Well, it finally happened. The book is finished. You, or anyone else, can

order Byzantine Cuisine for $37.75, including packaging, shipping and

handling (within the 48 States). Its a 450 page book which contains a

systhesis of food available, cooking practices and dining custons, plus

translations of 3 primary sources and 2 secondary sources. Send check

or money order to Henry Marks, 1270 Montecello Dr, Eugene, OR, 97404.

It does not include copies of the orginals, just the translations.

This is Efentes Demetrios OL - originally of Calontir, now retired to

Oregon.

His e-mail address is: efentesdemetrios at hotmail.com if you wish to

correspond with him directly about his book.

He was my apprentice brother before he was elevated to the Order of the

Laurel for Things Byzantine. The book is oriented to the SCA time

period.

Kateryn de Develyn

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:59:26 -0500

From: "Debra Hense" <DHense at ifmc.org>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forks in period???

Efuentes Demetrios in his new book - Byzantine Cuisine has this to say

about forks:

Forks reportedly occurred very early in Byzantine history. Gregory of

Nyssa (4th C.) reports the use of a 'fork' with a single tine. The

number of tines increased over time, with Eusthasios of Thessalonika

(12th C.) reporting five tines. Forks were purportedly introduced to

the West via the dowry of the Byzantine Princess Theodora Doukas.

[Koukoule, P., Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos (Byazantine Life and

Civilization). Collection de l'Instute Francais D'Atheneses: Athens,

1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.]

Demetrios has an edited translation to English of Koukoule in Appendix

E of his Byzantine Cuisine book.

If you haven't guessed already - I just received my copy. Very nice.

Large easy to read 12 point typeface. Well foot-noted. Organized in a

logical manner. The translations take up approximately two thirds of

the book.

He has translated into English:

Prodromic Poems - Hesseling, D. & Pernot, H -Poems prodromiques

en grec vulgaire.- Amsterdam, 1910; Jeanseleme, E. & Oeconomos, L. -La

Satire contre les Higoumenes. Poem attribue a Theodore Prodrom, essai de

traduction francaise.- Byazantion, 1924, Vol 1, 317 - 339; Soyter, G.

-Humor und Satire in der Byzantinisch Literature-. Bayerische Blatter

fur das Gymnaialschulwesen, 1928, Vol 64 pp 38-210.

Simeon Seth (from french) - Brunet, Marc (trans.) -Simeon Seth:

Medecin de L'Empereur-. Michel Doucas, Delmas Publishers: Bordeaux,

France, 1939

Hierophile (from french) - Boissonade, M. -Trait alimentaire du

Medecin Hierophile- in Notices et extraits des Manuscrits de la

Bibliotheque du Roi, t., Volume XI, 2nd Part, 178-273, Paris 1827.

Ailments et Recettes Culinaires des Byantins (from french) -

Jeanselme and Oeconomos, Communications faite au 3rd Congred de

l'Histoire de l'art de Guerir, London, July 17-22, 1922. Printed by De

Vlijt, Anvers, 1923.

Byzantine Life and Civilization (from french) - Koukoule, P.,

-Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos.- Collection de l'Instute Francais

D'Atheneses: Athens, 1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.

He told me that he couldn't include facsimiles of the orginials as that

would have made the book twice as large - its already well over 400

pages.

Kateryn de Develyn

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:27:23 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine book was Forks in period???

I have to second what Debra has said here. This is a very nice

work to have on the shelf. It's not inexpensive, but there is a great of

material in it and it is well worth the price if you are interested in

that part of the world.

Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis

Debra Hense wrote:> snipped

> Efuentes Demetrios in his new book - Byzantine Cuisine ...

> If you haven't guessed already - I just received my copy. Very nice.

> Large easy to read 12 point typeface. Well foot-noted. Organized in a

> logical manner. The translations take up approximately two thirds of

> the book.

> He told me that he couldn't include facsimiles of the orginials as that

> would have made the book twice as large - its already well over 400

> pages.

> Kateryn de Develyn

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:01:27 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] So what's new

To: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> I've got Henry Marks' book on Byzantine cuisine, and have already

> found several good recipes in it. Does anyone have any comments on

> Andrew Dalby's "Flavour's of Byzantium"?

Loan it in and read it. You'll like it. I am not sure that it's

worth $45 if you aren't really into doing Byzantine all the time.

Johnnae

From: "Peter & Nicole Raftos" <zahar at optushome.com.au>

To: <SCAbyzantine at yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:33:03 +1000

Subject: RE: [SCAbyzantine] Food and other subjects

Our knowledge of Byzantine foodstuffs (if not recipes) is still a mess

but is actually getting better. Tim Dawson has a good review of

"Flavours of Byzantium" by Andrew Dalby Prospect Books, 2003, 200 pages,

Hb, £25.00, US$45.00 ISBN 1-903018-14-5 See http://www.levantia.com.au/

Henry's book Byzantine Cuisine is an excellent place to start.

He has translated into English:

Prodromic Poems - Hesseling, D. & Pernot, H -Poems prodromiques

en grec vulgaire.- Amsterdam, 1910; Jeanseleme, E. & Oeconomos, L. -La

Satire contre les Higoumenes. Poem attribue a Theodore Prodrom, essai de

traduction francaise.- Byazantion, 1924, Vol 1, 317 - 339; Soyter, G.

-Humor und Satire in der Byzantinisch Literature-. Bayerische Blatter

fur das Gymnaialschulwesen, 1928, Vol 64 pp 38-210.

Simeon Seth (from french) - Brunet, Marc (trans.) -Simeon Seth:

Medecin de L'Empereur-. Michel Doucas, Delmas Publishers: Bordeaux,

France, 1939

Hierophile (from french) - Boissonade, M. -Trait alimentaire du

Medecin Hierophile- in Notices et extraits des Manuscrits de la

Bibliotheque du Roi, t., Volume XI, 2nd Part, 178-273, Paris 1827.

Ailments et Recettes Culinaires des Byantins (from french) -

Jeanselme and Oeconomos, Communications faite au 3rd Congred de

l'Histoire de l'art de Guerir, London, July 17-22, 1922. Printed by De

Vlijt, Anvers, 1923.

Byzantine Life and Civilization (from french) - Koukoules, P.,

-Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos.- Collection de l'Instute Francais

D'Atheneses: Athens, 1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.

The Dumbarton Oaks Saints Vitae, Hagiography Data Base Project and the

Byzantine Monastic Foundation Documents - Tyika online provide some

information on the mainly vegetarian monastic diet if you search for it:

http://www.doaks.org/ATHWC.html

http://www.doaks.org/Hagio.html

http://www.doaks.org/typ000.html

The Geoponica was compiled by an unknown writer at the request of the

Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, to whom the work was formerly

ascribed. Based mainly on a collection made in the 6th or 7th century by

Cassianus Bassus, who borrowed from two earlier writers, Anatolius

Vindanius or Vindonius, of Berytus, and Didymus, of Alexandria (both of

the 4th or 5th century). It is being translated into English at the

moment. A chapter summary and commentary which lists common and uncommon

foodstuffs may be found here Rogers, Robert. (2002) “Garden Making and

Garden Culture in the Geoponika.” In Byzantine Garden Culture,

Washington DC: Dumbarton Oaks, 159-175.:

http://www.doaks.org/ByzGarden/ByzGarch8.pdf

Some other reading which may be of interest

Bryer, Anthony. (1985) Byzantine Porridge, in Hnery Mayr-Harting and R.

I. Moore eds, Studies in Medieval History presented to R. H. C. Davis,

Hambledon Press pp. 1 - 6.

Bryer, Anthony. (2002) “The Means of Agricultural Production: Muscles

and Tools” in The Economic History of Byzantium from the Seventh through

the Fifteenth Century, edited by Angeliki Laiou. Washington, DC:

Dumbarton Oaks, 101-113.

Constantinides, Costas. (2002) “Byzantine Gardens and Horticulture in

the Late Byzantine Period: 1204-1453: The Secular Sources.” Byzantine

Garden Culture. Edited by Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire and Joachim

Wolschke-Bulmahn Washington, DC : Dumbarton Oaks, 87-103.

Koder, Johannes. Fresh vegetables for the capital, in: Constantinople

and its Hinterland, edd. C. Mango and G. Dagron. Aldershot 1995, 49-56.

Koder, Johannes. Gemüse in Byzanz:Die Frischgemuseversorgung

Konstantinopels im Licht der Geoponika ed. J. Koder Institut fur

Byzantinistik und Neograzistik der Universisat Wien. pp. 131 ISBN

3-900538-41-7

eds Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire, and Joachim Wolschke-Bulmahn

Byzantine Garden Culture, Dumbarton Oaks, ISBN: 0884022803

Maguire, Henry. (2000) “Gardens and Parks in Constantinople.” Dumbarton

Oaks Papers, 54, 251-64.

Maguire, Henry. (2002) “Paradise Within.” In Byzantine Garden Culture,

Washington DC : Dumbarton Oaks, 23-35.

Scarborough, John. (2002) “Herbs of the Field and Herbs of the Garden in

Byzantine Medicinal Pharmacy.” Byzantine Garden Culture. Edited by

Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire and Joachim Wolschke-Bulmahn

Washington, DC: Dumbarton Oaks, 177-188.

For headdresses and hair try:

Emmanuel, Melita. (1994) "Hairstyles and Headdresses of Empresses,

Princesses and Ladies of the Aristocracy in Byzantium," Deltion tes

Christianikes Archaiologikes Etaireias, volume dedicated to the memory

of Doula Mouriki, vol. 17, 113-120.

Parani, M. G. (2000) "Byzantine Bridal Costume.” Dorema. A Tribute to

the A. G. Leventis Foundation on the Occasion of its Twentieth

Anniversary. Nicosia, 185-216.

Peter Raftos

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:05:50 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Greek Recipes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Description of Dalby's book is at

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/lane/kal69/shop/pages/isbn145.htm

Charles Perry's review is at http://www.cornucopia.net/aboutfb.html

Henry Marks -- is sold by Devra. More about it at

http://tastesofmaviboncuk.blogspot.com/2005/07/tastes-and-smells-of-

byzantium.html

There's also a review by Dalby of it in PPC.

Johnnae

Vitaliano Vincenzi wrote:

> Yes, sorry, I am looking at early 15th century for all courses - no time

> traveling allowed. :) The books you mention, what period are they from?

> A quick online search at our Library doesn't show that they are

> available locally, but I will have our Librarian do a state wide search

> and see if see if she can find them. It's nice that our shires

> seneschal is also a librarian. :)

> Johnna wrote:

> If you are doing medieval Greek, you'd be wise to look at medieval

> Byzantine and those

> sources to start would be Andrew Dalby's Flavours of Byzantium and

> and Byzantine Cuisine by Henry Marks.

> Johnnae

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:25:24 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] two sources (Byzantine, German)

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Surfing around, I found two foreign language sources, one Byzantine (10th century; engl. transl.), one German (14th century).

Here are a few German recipes that I was not hitherto aware of:

http://www.google.de/books?id=fKokYqB96m0C&;pg=PA289&dq=pulverrezepte&sig=RgAZGI0R2KkPvtwrXQgHD9EKRPQ#PPA301,M1

The Byzantine source is here (search for example for "abyrtake" or "sour-sauce" or "food" or any other food term you might want to explore):

http://www.stoa.org/sol/

From their website:

The Suda is a massive 10th century Byzantine Greek historical encyclopedia of the ancient Mediterranean world, derived from the scholia to critical editions of canonical works and from compilations by yet earlier authors. The purpose of the Suda On Line is to open up this stronghold of information by means of a freely accessible, keyword-searchable, XML-encoded database with translations,

annotations, bibliography, and automatically generated links to a

number of other important electronic resources. We believe that greater

accessibility of this material should facilitate a good variety of new

research. (Read more)

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:37:46 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Advice on a Book

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Aug 12, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Mariann Eaves wrote:

<<< I was perusing Potboiler Press (which btw is finally up and going, Yay http://tranq3.tranquility.net/~potboilerpress/ ) and found Andrew

Dalby, Flavors of Byzantium listed. Is this a good book to start out with in

learning to cook foods from the Bysantium period? >>>

My recollection (and I hope I'm not doing Dalby an injustice here) is

that it's not really much of a cookbook, but more of an examination of

food references in the fairly standard body of available texts:

poetry, shipping records, histories, etc.

There may be recipes from sources such as Anthimus and Apicius to back

up the references, but if there at all, they're probably sort of

incidental.

If you simply want to learn what these people ate, it's a good source,

but if you want one-stop shopping with worked-out recipes in the back,

such as you might get from somebody like Terence Scully, this isn't

really that kind of thing.

Again, this is my recollection, backed up only slightly by a very

brief skim through the pages before writing this. I may have missed

the Secret Section On 101 Things To Do With Garum... ;-)

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:51:12 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Advice on a Book

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Ok, I have my copy right here. It doesn't have modernized recipes.

It has descriptive passages from early texts that are dietary in nature.

There's a huge glossary and bibliography. You can use Dalby to get to the

actual sources, but you are going to have to either buy more books

or spend a lot of time in a library, a great academic library at that.

You aren't going to be able to just buy

Dalby and walk in a kitchen and cook full meals from what he provides.

Devra sells this book Byzantine Cuisine $45.00 by Henry Marks.

http://www.poisonpenpress.com/cookery.html

"He has taken a number of Byzantine recipes from referenced sources and

has adapted them for modern tastes while remaining as true as possible

to the original; each recipe is annotated with literary, historical, and

culinary information."