Jews-msg - 11/30/98
Medieval Jews, Jewish personas.
NOTE: See also the files: Khazars-msg, fd-Jewish-msg, Islam-msg, Middle-East-msg, Arabs-msg, Palestine-msg.
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.heraldry,alt.heraldry.sca
From: sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch)
Subject: Re: Jewish heraldry?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 23:32:03 GMT
sbraslau at uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.EDU (Stacy Braslau-Schneck) writes:
>I read somewhere that Jews did not usually have a heraldic device of their
>own, but instead used the device of the town in which they lived - at
>least in Spain.
As I mentioned in another post a few minutes ago, the Jewish community
in a city of Christian Europe typically had a contract binding them
personally to the local ruler. The Jewish community was the ruler's
"property" in almost the same sense as his personal servants were. As
such, it makes sense for them to claim that bond heraldically.
I have seen the flag of the Jewish community of Prague (the flag
currently hanging in the synagogue dates from the 16th century),
which apparently was used whenever the community processed to the
castle to renew their contract with the King, to ask him a boon as a
group, or anything like that. (Pause while I go dig out the slide I
took of it....) This flag (or the part of it I can see in the slide
without using a projector) doesn't have any obvious symbols of Prague,
just a Jew's hat within a Star of David within a bordure of Hebrew
script. (Background maroon, charges and script gold.)
I think the main reason "Jews didn't usually have a heraldic device of
their own" is that very few of them were of noble families. Jewish
communities, and trade guilds with significant Jewish membership,
certainly had group heraldic symbols (which we would call "badges" in
SCA heraldry).
>As a Jewish persona from Spain, would I be allowed to use the real devices
>of Leon or Toledo or wherever? Or the "real" device of my local barony
>(which seems to consist of a completely un-period Hawaiian outrigger
>canoe, so looks very un-Medival, at least to me)?
Well, the outrigger canoe probably dates into or before the European
Middle Ages, but I agree it would certainly look jarring at an
allegedly European feast or court.
More to the point, read the article on "Flags and Banners in the SCA"
in Compleat Anachronist 50, "Armorial Display". It points out that
many Kingdoms (and perhaps Baronies) have agreed to allow any citizen
thereof to use the group badge in the "hoist" of their own standards,
where there would have been a national insignia in the Middle Ages.
Arval? Any words of wisdom on this?
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at cs.umanitoba.ca
From: hjfeld at acs.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Jews in the Middle Ages (was:Religion, Sutton Hoo, and Bob)
Date: 15 Mar 93 00:44:50 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov!
In article <C3s8nq.vE at acsu.buffalo.edu> v081lu33 at ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Kenneth C Mondschein) writes:
> Firstly, I, like many newbies in the SCA, feel compelled to
>adopt a persona. OF course, religion was a *MAJOR* part of the Medieval
>mindset, and if I'm to have a realistic persona, should be a part of
>my mindset, too.
> This is where the problem comes in. I'm Jewish, and there were
>not many gently-born Jews in either the Middle Ages or early Renaissance
>(I'm not sure when families such as the Rothschilds began to gain influence).
>I would either have to choose a personae from the Middle East, perhaps
>Byzantium, or that really obscure kingdom from around the Caspian Sea. Ergo,
>I have a little problem: I can either be compelled to burn myself at the stake,
>or have my choice of personae severely limited.
> (Of course, I'd also be more than happy just dressing up in armor
>and concentrating on the stick jock aspects of this, but, hey, that's just me.
I feel compelled to respond to this, as a I hear it fairly frequently.
The range of the Jewish experience in the Middle Ages is far more
complex than most people believe.
In Europe, the Jewish experience is marked by periods of tolerance
and periods of oppression. Anyone who wishes to select a
European Jewish persona can manage to find a tolerant zone with
a bit of research, or can assume that they are living in one.
As a genearl rule, things are good in Europe after the Visogoths
and before the Crusades. The Crusades ushered in an era of the
erosion of Jewish/Christian relations and the Plague finished it.
It is after the Plague that the Jewish/Christian relationship is
characterized in terms of the ghetto and little or no social
interaction. At least in Central Europe. In Eastern Europe, things
go reasonably well until the Chmelniski Pogroms of 1648-9 (known
in Jewish history as Tach v'Tat, after the years in the Jewish
Calendar.) After this, things remain generally awful and oppressive
through to the Enlightment and the 20th century.
Of course, the above represents a gross over-simplification. My point
is merely that Jewish history does not present the uniform picture of
oppression and suffering most believe it does. Rather, the Jews swung
from the good times to the really bad times, evolving a richness of
culture and experience that are seldom appreciated today even by
Jews ( at #$! Socialist Zionists!).
Yaakov (who could go on at length but knows better)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.heraldry,alt.heraldry.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval Benicoeur)
Subject: Re: Jewish heraldry?
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 13:59:34 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Stacy Braslau-Schneck writes:
> >I read somewhere that Jews did not usually have a heraldic device of their
> >own, but instead used the device of the town in which they lived - at
> >least in Spain.
And Stephen Bloch writes:
> As I mentioned in another post a few minutes ago, the Jewish community in
> a city of Christian Europe typically had a contract binding them
> personally to the local ruler.... I think the main reason "Jews didn't
> usually have a heraldic device of their own" is that very few of them
> were of noble families.
Stephen, I know your learning in this field, but I believe you are
over-generalizing. The belief that Stacy mentioned in widespread, but
inaccurate. I had the pleasure of editting an excellent article on Jewish
heraldry in the Middle Ages, written for publication in the proceedings of
the Known World Heraldic Symposium (of the SCA) by Lord Eleazar ha-Levi.
He found extensive evidence of Jewish nobility, Jewish knights, and Jewish
armigers. His article appears in the 1989 proceedings, which are in print
and available from Free Trumpet Press.
===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur mittle at watson.ibm.com
From: velde2 at jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.heraldry,alt.heraldry.sca
Subject: Re: Jewish heraldry?
Date: 15 Mar 1993 09:39:22 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch) writes:
>sbraslau at uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.EDU (Stacy Braslau-Schneck) writes:
>>I read somewhere that Jews did not usually have a heraldic device of their
>>own, but instead used the device of the town in which they lived - at
>>least in Spain.
>
>As I mentioned in another post a few minutes ago, the Jewish community
>in a city of Christian Europe typically had a contract binding them
>personally to the local ruler. The Jewish community was the ruler's
>"property" in almost the same sense as his personal servants were. As
>such, it makes sense for them to claim that bond heraldically.
>
>[flag of the community of Prague described]
>
>I think the main reason "Jews didn't usually have a heraldic device of
>their own" is that very few of them were of noble families. Jewish
>communities, and trade guilds with significant Jewish membership,
>certainly had group heraldic symbols (which we would call "badges" in
>SCA heraldry).
Once again, the right to bear arms was not limited to nobles: so Jews,
without being nobles, could bear arms, at least in principle.
In practice I can give two examples of coats of arms belonging to Jews:
1) Kalonymos ben Todros, a.k.a. Momet Tauros, living in Narbonne around
1300, had a lion rampant on his shield.
2) Nostradamus, the famous astrologer, bore: Gules, a wheel broken
between each spoke or. Since the color of the charge was too clear a
reminder of the bearer's origins, a descendant had the arms changed to
quarterly, 1 and 4 Argent a wheel sabel; 2 and 3 Argent an eagle's head
erased sable.
Reference: R. Mathieu (1946), _Le Systeme Heraldique Francais_, p. 41.
--
Francois Velde
Article 35299 of rec.org.sca:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.heraldry,alt.heraldry.sca
From: sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch)
Subject: Re: Jewish heraldry?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Arval Benicoeur and Francois Velde very gently correct my
overgeneralizations:
JiE>I think the main reason "Jews didn't usually have a heraldic device of
JiE>their own" is that very few of them were of noble families. Jewish
JiE>communities, and trade guilds with significant Jewish membership,
JiE>certainly had group heraldic symbols (which we would call "badges" in
JiE>SCA heraldry).
FV>Once again, the right to bear arms was not limited to nobles: so Jews,
FV>without being nobles, could bear arms, at least in principle.
I had meant to say something to this effect, but it got lost between
conception and keyboard. My IMPRESSION is that in most of Europe, in
most of the Middle Ages, there was no formal prohibition against
commoners bearing heraldic arms, but the entities who had reason to do
so were predominantly either noble families, professional guilds, or
"communities", e.g. the city of Hamburg or the Jewish community of
Prague. Owain Oxherd (or even Sam Shopkeeper) had no need for a
personal or family coat of arms, and wouldn't be likely to go to the
trouble of designing, emblazoning, and publicizing one.
FV>In practice I can give two examples of coats of arms belonging to Jews:
...
There are at least two examples reprinted (in B&W, alas) in Rudin's
"History of Jewish Costume". One is an heraldic device, painted on a
shield, whose major charges are three Jewish hats (the sailor-style
version, not the broad-brimmed and spiked version); Rudin suggests
this device was not actually of a Jewish family but rather a cant on
the family name "Jude". The second is a seal, probably of a Jewish
family or individual, consisting of three Jewish hats (broad-brimmed,
spiked and balled) conjoined at the balls.
Arval said something about there being no lack of Jewish nobles,
Jewish knights, etc. in the historical record, and recommended an
article on the subject in the 1989 KWHS Proceedings. I've heard of
this article, and have intended to acquire and read it for some
time, but for a deplorable shortage of round tuits. Thanks for
reminding me about it.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
--
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at cs.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.heraldry,alt.heraldry.sca
From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Jewish heraldry?
Organization: University of Toronto - VELUT ABOR AEVO
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 02:26:01 GMT
In article <C3yGu3.HHw at ccu.umanitoba.ca> sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch) writes:
>... Owain Oxherd (or even Sam Shopkeeper) had no need for a
>personal or family coat of arms, and wouldn't be likely to go to the
>trouble of designing, emblazoning, and publicizing one.
Nobody told Sam Shopkeeper how unlikely it was ... bourgeois families,
including Jews, went to the trouble of designing, emblazoning and
publicising coats of arms throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
Italian jewry was notably rich in heraldry.
Aryk Nusbacher
From: Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Religion, Sutton Hoo, and Bob
Date: 20 Mar 93 14:30:00 GMT
KCM> Greetings from Aethelmark!
KCM>
KCM> This is in response to all the hubub over religion and the SCA.
KCM> SAs usual, I feel compelled to put my two farthings into the matter.
KCM> Firstly, I, like many newbies in the SCA, feel compelled to
KCM> adopt a persona. OF course, religion was a *MAJOR* part of the
KCM> Medieval mindset, and if I'm to have a realistic persona, should be a
KCM> part of my mindset, too.
KCM> This is where the problem comes in. I'm Jewish, and there were
KCM> not many gently-born Jews in either the Middle Ages or early
KCM> Renaissance (I'm not sure when families such as the Rothschilds began
KCM> to gain influence). I would either have to choose a personae from the
KCM> Middle East, perhaps Byzantium, or that really obscure kingdom from
KCM> around the Caspian Sea.
Not necessarily. Depending upon your persona and era, how about the Langue
d'Oc area of early medieval France? The kingdom that existed for some time
between the France of then and what would become Spain had a large and
influential population of Jews of all classes. It was later "crusaded"
against, not just because of theological idiocies about Jews, but because
the local Christians were seriously "heretical", but in its heyday, it was
a great place to be a European Jew! And a bit later, Scotland welcomed Jews
as they were chased out of England. Although that Jew would not likely have
been a large landowner, and a knight in our usual SCA sense, he would very
likely have been a university scholar and respected teacher. Anti-semitism
didn't really hit Scotland until the Reformation, and even then it seems to
have been less of a dose... The Scots seem to have always taken the tack that
being a Scot was such a great advantage that a few hundred (later thousand,
much later wives of different colors) foreigners couldn't hurt anything.
I don't think they were any less biased, just less threatened...
KCM> Point three: I've been reading all the Sutton Hoo debates and
KCM> reports, and I began to think: hmmn, when is a grave not a grave? Or,
KCM> why are there personal effects laid out sort-of like they were on a
KCM> corpse, but no organic remains were found?
KCM> The answer seems connected to something that we do today: an empty
KCM> coffin. The people who buried their dead at Sutton Hoo were evidently
KCM> a seagoing people, so perhaps the chieftan whose grave the
KCM> archaeologists have been digging up was lost at sea. Or perhaps it was
KCM> some religious rite (grave of the Unknown Celt?).
KCM>
One of the better theories, in fact. However, in long-buried remains several
things can happen, depending on soil chemistry. In the peat bogs, the bones
and most plant-derived clothing dissolve, leaving an empty skin with hair!
Bury the same sort of corpse in a hollowed-out oak log and you get clothes,
some bones depending upon how long buried and how much water gets in, but
the flesh and skin are turned into a grey soap-like material.
This is why it's such a shame Sutton Hoo was excavated under less-than-
perfect conditions, and before we knew all this soil chemistry stuff...
Now, a good archaeological forensics team could look at the stains in the
soil around the grave goods, and tell you if a body had dissolved, or if the
stains were only iron and other rotted hardware. With Sutton Hoo we may
never know for sure.
... Moreach NicMhaolain
From: v081lu33 at ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu (Kenneth C Mondschein)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Renaissance Samauri Jews Revisited
Keywords: Return of the Pestering Newbie
Date: 1 Apr 93 22:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
Dear Gentles,
I just had a talk with my World Civilization prof and TA, and I
confirmed a couple of things:
1.) Jews were fairly tolerated in such Renaissance Italy states as
Venice. It was plausible that a Jewish merchant could rise to a high level.
2.) There was trading and contact to some extent between the West and
East between 1350-1450 (remember, this is post-Marco Polo).
3.) A Jewish merchant would be more likely to have contacts in the Mid
East (a vital place for trading bases) than, say, someone with no relatives in
Eretz Yisroel.
Therefore, Renaissance Samauri Jews are (I think) not inconceivable...
it's CREATIVE anachronism, right?!?!
Happy Easter and Pesach, and I hope to be meeting the NYC chapter
Monday...
Ken Mondschein
Tristan Clair de Lune
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bnostran at lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Solveig Throndardottir)
Subject: Re: Renaissance Samauri Jews Revisited
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 07:26:15 GMT
Noble Cousins!
It is not necessary to look to Italy for a source for East Asian Jews.
When Marco Polo arrived in Kahn Balik (the capital of China at the
time) there was a thriving Jewish colony there and in several other
Chinese cities some of which were coastal. The chinese jews were
primarily engaged in various sorts of trade. There are two paper
back books available on Chinese jews:
Michael Pollak, Mandarins, Jews and Missionaries
Jews in Old China
Perhaps the largest or at least most interesting Jewish colony was
at Kaifeng. There were also colonies of Nestorian Christians and
Muslims. The Muslims were distinguished from Jews in China by the
color of their hats. Muslims wore white hats and Jews blue hats.
Thus, it is only necessary for Jews to migrate across the sea of
Japan to arrive in Japan. Further, social status was rather fluid
until the (post-period) Tokugawa Bakufu. Thus, it is conceivable
that that there were jewish samurai. This is in fact the subject
of a Japanese Manga series which bases its premis partly on a
superficial resemblence between religious practicies at a certain
Japanese religious cite and jewish religious practices (specifically
wearing teffilin and blowing the shofar.)
&nbs