cucumbers-msg - 1/29/07
Medieval and period cucumbers. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: Cucumbers-Hst-art, pickled-foods-msg, peppers-msg, vegetarian-msg, leeks-msg, peas-msg, beans-msg, gourds-msg, beets-msg, vegetables-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:13:45 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - cucumbers in period
Hi all from Anne-Marie
We are asked about recipes for cucumber in period.
Might I suggest the cucumbers from Apicius? Easy, tasty and soooo simple to
make!
"Cucumbers (Apicius #84): Pepper, pennyroyal, honey or passum, liquamen and
vinegar. Sometimes silphium is added."
AM's version:
2 cucumbers, sliced but not peeled. Make sure to wash that wax off, though.
1/4 tsp fresh black pepper
1/2 T fresh mint (if you dont want to use pennyroyal)
2 T honey
1 c. balsamic vinegar
1 T worsheschestershurstershire sauce ("liquamen" sorta kinda)
2 pinches asafetida ( optional...considered by some a suitable substitute
for the now extinct silphium)
In a dish, layer the sliced cucumbers with pepper and mint. Mix the
marinade from the remaining ingredients. If you warm it slightly, it helps
the honey mix. Let cool a bit so as not to cook the cukes. Pour over the
cucumbers and let sit for a bit. Serve cold or at room temp.
I know of no examples of medieval European food that uses sour cream at
all, much less with cukes. Even the middle eastern stuff uses yogurt.
- --Anne-Marie
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:55:39 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Cacik (Cucumbers in Yogurt Mint Sauce)-recipe
uther at lcc.net writes:
<< I would love the recipes for the cucumbers in yogurt mint sauce >>
Cacik
Adapted by L. J. Spencer, Jr.
2 cups plain yogurt
4 lagre cucumbers, peeled and sliced
3/4 cup water
2 tablespoons fresh mint leaves, finely minced
6 cloves garlic, mashed to a paste
3 tablespoons cider vinegar
4 tablespoons olive oil
6 small ice cubes
Salt to taste
Mint sprigs, for garnish
Mix yogurt, water, mint, garlic, vinegar and oil together until thoroughly
blended. Pour mixture over cucumber slices. Toss cucmbers and yogurt mixture
together until the cucumbers are thoroughly coated. Add salt to taste. Just
before serving stir in ice cubes. Garnish with mint sprigs, chooped fresh
mint or a sprinkling of dried mint.
NOTES: Original recipe taken from 'A Book of Middle Eastern Food'. Claudia
Roden. Vintage Books,a Division of Random House, New York.
The original poster stated that early Turks did not have ice cubes so she
substituted cold water instead. This is an error because there is some
evidence that one of the first things the Turks did after conquest was to
establish ice houses.
Although this is a modern recipe, it is very much like similar recipes that
can be found in al-Baghdadi which dates from the 13th century under the
heading of 'Persian milk'.
Ras
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:51:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - <sigh> Cucumbers
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 8-Nov-99 SC - <sigh>
Cucumbers by "Richard Kappler II" at hom
> The question is, when were cucumbers first used in Medieval Europe. I have
> Tannahill, who says they were imported into Rome back in the days even
> before Adamantius from Spain, as well as that they were used to prevent
> scurvy before the Chinese told the Portuguese about citrus, but when were
> they first used in Europe after the fall of the Roman empire or, as I
> suspect, were they always just there? Recipes and documentation
> puhleeeeeeease.....
I don't know about first used, but Platina describes three different
types of cucumbers (serpentine, and blue, and I don't remember the
third), categorizes them as melons, and says they are generally eaten
raw, peeled and seeded, and sauced with either salt and pepper, or with
salt, oil and vinegar. He also says they aren't necessarily terribly
healthy foods ;-)
toodles, margaret
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:34:04 EST
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - <sigh> Cucumbers
According to Waverly Root's "Food" and I quote
The cucumber was slow to penetrate into norther Europe, where after all the
claimate was not kindly disposed toward it. It seems to have appeared in
France and England about the same time, in the fourteenth century, but it may
not have ben known in Germany until the sixteenth if a doucument of that
period which chronicles its appearance in Wurttemberg was really reporting a
novelty.
Hauviette
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:33:07 -0600
From: "UnruhBays, Melanie A" <UnruhBays.Melanie.A at broadband.att.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Cinnamon Cucumbers
If I remember correctly, Platina waxes poetic about cucumbers. About how
great they are, how healthful and good. He then of course finds something he
likes better later. My copies are at home though, and I can't check at this
very moment....
<snip>
> C. Anne Wilson, in "Food and Drink in Britain" says that the cucumber
> was little known in England in the 15th century, but was widely
> cultivated during the 16th century. I have checked all of the late-period
> and post-period English cookbooks I own, and the only cucumber
> recipes I can find are pickled. I haven't seen any that were sliced raw
> and sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. At this point, I would be inclined
> label the periodness of Canel Cucumber as "undocumented and
> dubious". Does anyone else on the list have anything to add? Has
> anyone seen a period recipe like this (from England or elsewhere)?
>
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
> Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:57:37 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: RE: SC - Cinnamon Cucumbers
And it came to pass on 29 Jun 00,, that UnruhBays, Melanie A wrote:
> If I remember correctly, Platina waxes poetic about cucumbers. About how
> great they are, how healthful and good. He then of course finds something
> he likes better later. My copies are at home though, and I can't check at
> this very moment....
Thank you for the suggestion. I have my copy at hand. Platina says
that of the 3 types of cucumber, 2 are served with oil and vinegar, and
the other with just salt. No cinnamon sugar.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:10:30 EDT
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: Cucumbers in Period
> C. Anne Wilson, in "Food and Drink in Britain" says that the cucumber
> was little known in England in the 15th century, but was widely
> cultivated during the 16th century. I have checked all of the late-period
> and post-period English cookbooks I own, and the only cucumber
> recipes I can find are pickled. I haven't seen any that were sliced raw
> and sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. At this point, I would be inclined
> label the periodness of Canel Cucumber as "undocumented and
> dubious". Does anyone else on the list have anything to add? Has
> anyone seen a period recipe like this (from England or elsewhere)?
>
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
I don't have a recipe, but there is a mention in the Petrie household records
(think Henry 8th, early in his reign) for seeds of cucumbers. The Petrie
household was an English Manor, Sir Petrie I believe.
Hauviette
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:16:07 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Cucumbers and the SCA
> I keep running up against the notion, among SCAdians, that
> cucumbers are not period. This
> is quite definitely a SCAdian Urban Myth, because I've never
> seen it in a print source.
> So, where is it coming from? If we can figure out where 'pink
> isn't period' came from, we should be able to trace this myth too.
>
> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
What a fascinating non-fact. Cucumber derives from the Middle English (1100
- - 1500) word "cucomer," derived from Old French derived from Latin. Very
prescient of our ancestor to have a word for something they didn't know.
That should take care of the documentation and I think Rumpolt has a recipe
for cucumber salad, which should take care of the recipe. Come to think of
it, I think cucumbers are mentioned in Pliny.
Bear
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:02:43 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - noon-member submission - Cucumbers
Of course cucumbers are period. I don't know whether the ones you find
the grocery store are period varieties(I somehow doubt it), but you can
get some periodoid (at least) varieties in places like Indian grocery
stores.
Platina lists three types of cucumbers and a variety of ways to eat
them, so there are extent recipes from Italy 15th C. Elizabethan
cookbooks also give recipes for preserving cowcumbers which sound
remarkably like recipes for dill pickles. The OED refers cowcumber ->
cucumber, and under cucmber says "A creeping plant, Cucumis sativis
(family) Cucurbitaceae), a native of southern Asia, from ancient times
cultivated for its fruit. Sited in 1400 Of erbis he schal ete femel,
melones, cucumeris. Wyclif makes reference to the plant in 1382, Where
cucumeris, that ben bitter berbis, waxen.
toodles, margaret
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:14:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cucumbers and the SCA
[about my cucumbers-msg file - Stefan]
> As that is only a recently created file, it is also possible that there
> is other period cucumber evidence scattered in other files there.
I don't know if it's in any other files, but this study cites seeds of modern, small seeded cucumbers found in an archaeological dig in Gniezno, Poland, in a 12th-century setting (in other words, in the layer that indicated the material was from the 12th century):
"Archaeobotanical Evidence for Food Plants in the Poland of the Piasts (10th-13th Centuries AD)", M. Polcyn. Biological Journal of Scotland, vol 46, no 4, p 533-537.
- --
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at mail.browser.net
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:53:14 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The pumpkin/gourd debate (again) from
theapothecary'sworkshop
To: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>> All members of genus Cucurbita are of North American origin, including
>> those found in Asia and Africa. Gourds and melons are of Old World origin.
>> A quick way to tell the difference is to look at the stem. Cucurbita have
>> deeply ribbed stems, the gourds and melons have round, relatively
>> smooth, lightly veined stems.
>
> Now, I'm confused. Cucumbers are genus Cucurbita, but their presence in
> Europe pre-dates any significant contact between Old and New Worlds. Do
> we have an explanation for that? I didn't find one anywhere.
> --
> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Cucumbers are genus Cucumis, Squashes, gourds, melons, watermelons,
cucumbers and luffas are all members of the family Cucurbitaceae.
Bear
<the end>