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beans-msg - 2/2/15

 

Medieval beans. Fava beans. Garbanzo beans. Recipes.

 

NOTE: See also the files: fava-beans-msg, peas-msg, vegetables-msg, vegetarian-msg, salads-msg, seeds-msg, soup-msg, grains-msg, bread-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that

I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some

messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.

These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount of  editing. Messages having to do  with

seperate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes

extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were

removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I

make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the

individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and efforts of  those who have written  these

messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this

time. If  information  is published  from  these  messages, please give

credit to the orignator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                 AKA:  Lord Stefan li Rous

    mark.s.harris at motorola.com           stefan at florilegium.org

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From Jeff.Peck at hubert.rain.comMon Feb 26 12:21:04 1996

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 01:23:00 -0800

From: Jeff Peck <Jeff.Peck at hubert.rain.com>

To: antir at mail.orst.edu

Subject: Re: Hummos recipe<musical fruit>

 

     I have found in the past that if you use dried beans, and soak

  overnight in water with 1tbs of baking soda (rinse before cooking)

  it takes away a LARGE portion of the gassiness.

                           Lyulf

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:06:24 -0700 (PDT)

From: Catherine deSteele <desteele at netcom.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Beans are period...sort of.

 

Based on our research, there were a couple of period beans - fava

beans, which were known in Roman times and are still eaten in the

Meditteranean today. The other period bean was a now-extinct version of

the broad bean - you can substitute the Italian broad bean for it. Be

careful serving fava beans - some people have adverse reactions to it.

They also consumed the pods of fenugreek, known in period as "greek hay",

and still used extensively in Meditteranean and Afghani cooking today.

Vewgetarianism in the Middle Ages was a risky practice - few beans or

legumes, no corn, so options for protein were seriously limited - mainly

nuts, eggs, and dairy products. With lack of refrigeration, not a good

lifestyle choice...then.

                     Catherine deSteele

 

 

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:29:58 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Mediterranean Feast

 

I grew them as a project this year to see how they would do in our somewhat

warm and humid climate (Central Ansteorra) but got them into the ground

late for a heavy crop.  They are still producing so I will have a small but

hearty seed crop for next year, since I started with just a few.  There is

not as much information on growing them as regular dry beans or green

beans.  Most of what I found were British publications.  They are a very

pretty plant -- the flowers are white and purplish black. I have a couple

of catalogs at home that sell seeds if you want to try them.  Taste wise

the dry beans have a floury texture, I like.  There are several Roman

recipes featuring favas that are very good so you might check them out.

        You can get fava beans at health food stores as well as  specialty

and eastern markets.

 

Clare St. John

 

 

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:36:23 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes

 

At 2:59 PM -0500 6/6/97, Peters, Rise J. wrote:

>What other sorts of beans were available in Europe?  (I don't guess I could

>possibly be lucky enough that pinto beans were .... or any kind of "brown

>beans"?)

 

Fava beans, garbanzos, lentils. I don't think any of our standard

beans--pinto, lima, kidney, etc.--are old world.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes

 

>There is a good recipe out of 700 Years of English Cooking. Since I don't

>have it here and you need it now, I'll summarize and you can experiment if

>you want to. Its Fried Beans and Onions. Saute onions in oil, add kidney

>beans, ginger, cinnamon and another sweet spice. Heat. The onions, beans

>and sweet spices make a tastey mix and the dish is good hot or cold.

 

1. Kidney beans are from the new world.

 

2. I don't know 700 years of English Cooking well enough to identify the

recipe, but here are some somewhat similar things; the last of the three is

the closest to what you describe. All three recipes are from the

_Miscellany_, available online.

 

Makke

Form of Cury p. 41/A21

 

Take drawn beans and sethe them well. Take them up of the water and cast

them in a mortar. Grind them all to doust till they be white as any milk,

chawf a little red wine, cast thereamong in the grinding, do thereto salt,

leshe it in dishes, then take onions and mince them small and sethe them in

oil till they be all brown. And flourish the dish therewith. And serve it

forth.

 

1 cup pea beans, dry       2 large onions

1/2 c red wine      enough oil to fry the onions

1 t salt

 

Soak the beans overnight then simmer 4-6 hours until tender. Chop up the

onions fairly fine. Drain the beans, use a food processor to puree. Heat

the wine and add it. Put the beans in each dish, put the fried onions over

them. Broad beans (fava beans) would be more authentic than pea beans, but

we have not yet tried them in this recipe.

- ------

Fried Broad Beans

Platina p. 115 (book 7)

 

Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan with

soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry them well

rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface, spread this into

the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it.

 

1 c dried fava beans       2/3 c figs (cut in  pot herbs:   1 1/2 c

spinach, packed

6-8 T lard     about 8 pieces)         1 1/2 c parsley, packed

1/2 c+ onions       1/2 t sage           1 1/2 c mustard greens, packed

        1/2 t salt           1 1/2 c turnip greens

 

Spices for sprinkling on top: 1/4 t ginger, 1/2 t cinnamon, 1/4 t pepper

 

Bring beans to a boil in 2 1/2 c water, leave to soak about 1/2 hour, then

simmer another hour, until soft. Drain the beans, mix the whole mess

together and fry it in the lard for 10 minutes, then serve it forth with

spices sprinkled on it.  This is also good with substantially less greens.

- ------

Benes yfryed

Curye on Inglysch p. 141 (Forme of Cury no. 189)

 

Take benes and seeth hem almost til they bersten.  Take and wryng out the

water clene.  Do =DDerto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec therwith; frye

hem in oile o=DDer in grece, & do =DDerto powdour douce, & serue it forth.

 

2 15 oz cans fava beans   3 T olive oil

1 small onion chopped      poudre douce (2 t sugar, 3/8 t cinnamon, 3/8 t ginger)

3 cloves garlic (1 oz), smashed & minced

 

Drain and wash the beans well, draining thoroughly. Chop onions, crush and

mince garlic.  Simmer onions and garlic in 1/2 c water for 3 minutes,

drain. Heat the frying pan with oil on a medium heat, add onions and garlic

and beans (will splatter--be careful), cook, stirring frequently, 10

minutes. Then add pouder douce, mix well, cook 2 more minutes, and serve.

Remember to keep stirring.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:33:57 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes

 

<< What is a pea bean? >>

 

Acording to my currently limited resources pea beans are navy beans. It also

says "have been grown in Europe and elsewhere since the discovery of

America.". I would suspect that these were one of the 1st beans introduced to

Europe after America's dicovery although I do not have verification of that

hypothesis.

 

Lord Ras (Uduido at aol.com)

 

 

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:26:52 GMT

Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes

 

On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 2:59 PM -0500,  Peters, Rise J wrote:

>What other sorts of beans were available in Europe?  (I don't guess I could

>possibly be lucky enough that pinto beans were .... or any kind of "brown

>beans"?)

 

I believe it has already been mentioned that the beans known to have

existed throughout most of out studied time period are fava, garbanzo

and lentils. In the 16th century there are a few more that were added

by import from the New World, so you'll have to decide when and where

your recipe is used from.

 

he best source I have on what was available in beans is (again)

Castelvetro's "The Fruit, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy". Here he

lists Broad Beans (or Fava/Faba), Turkish beans (these are not from

Turkey, but Castelvetro terms them such to mean they are "foreign",

mainly New World in origin) which are described as "white or flecked

with pink and tan." They also "grow very tall" and " have [a]...lovely

green foliage". The translator, Gillian Riley, proclaims in he

glossary that these are Runner Beans, which we also call French

Beans".

 

He also lists another kind of bean, unnamed, that are "smaller, white

or faintly pinkish with a black spot in the middle." Kind of like a

black-eyed pea, apparently. Then he lists Dwarf Beans, which are he

states are native or domestic to Italy and are sown in large

quantities in wheat-fields after the harvest. "They do not grow high"

and he states they eat "the cooked tender green pods as a salad, and

do the same with the shelled fresh beans."

 

Chickpeas are mentioned and are mentioned as being seen in white and

red forms, the red being considered the better variety. Lentils are

also mentioned and he proclaims them as "one of the most, if not the

most, unhealthy vegetables one can eat, except for the broth, which,

they say, is a miraculous drink for children with smallpox. In general

lentils are only eaten by the lowest of the low." Those Italians sure

have a way with words, eh? ;-)

 

As a side note he also mentions peas (no further explanation as to any

particular kind or description of pea) and the Grass Pea, or vetch,

which, he says, tastes rather like Chickpeas. He dos state of theses

that "they are considered a rather common food, for they generate

wind, bad blood and considerable melancholy." Gillian Riley notes of

Grass peas that the "grew wild in Italy and were eaten a lot by the

Romans, but have fallen out of use, which is just as well, as they are

poisonous, even after a preliminary roasting, which is no doubt why

they were said to generate 'wind, bad blood and considerable

melancholy'."

 

Also of note is that Castelvetro discusses Lupin beans, but I do not

know if this is an actual bean or not. He mainly talks about

sweetening the bean by putting it in clear running water for 2 or 3

days. They are then "peeled and salted and nibbled more as a snack

than anything else, the sort of thing that appeals to pregnant women

or silly children. Dried lupins are used to fatten pigs and other

animals." Gillian Riley states these have been grown in Italy and the

Middle East since the times of the Romans.

So runner beans could probably be used, at least after the mid-late

16th Century. I'm not sure what the black-eyed pea looking bean is. It

could be a black-eyed pea, for all I know. (Not like I have this great

horticultural knowledge, or anything. I know diddley about such

things).

 

Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra

(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)

zarlor at acm.org

 

 

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:22:30 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>

Subject: Re:  SC - Green Beans

 

On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Terry Nutter wrote:

 

> Hi, Katerine here. Ceridwen quotes John Gerard on kidney beans.  Sounds

> interesting!  I haven't tripped over any references to them in 13th to 15th

> Century cuisine, but maybe I'm looking too early.  Can you tell us what his

> dates are?

>

> -- Katerine/Terry

 

        Hi Katerine,

 

        Geradrd's Herbal was first published in 1597, late for us but still

within the realm of Renaissance cookery , by my standards anyway. I have the

facsimile edition published by Dover, and have spent hours trying to figure

out some of his sources and see if I can get any  time frame as to the

import or common use of the plants he describes. Those from the New World he

usually specifies when and where they came from, but not always. There is an

introductory chapter in which he describes many Herbals preceding this one,

by date and author, but no indication if he quotes from these.

 

        I won't be so bold as to hold up this book as documentation for

anything before the lifetime of Gerard,whose book was based on the Dodoens

herbal of 1583, and was updated and revised by Thomas Johnson in 1633. I do

not have to hand any horticultural encyclopedia which would tell me

definitively whether the beans he refers to were actually favas, or kidney,

or some other .

 

        I have seen mention in Le Menagier and a couple others of preparing

beans in their "cods", though and deduce from that , that the people of the

Late Middle Ages ate beans fresh from the plant at times, and not always

ripe or dried. Though this does not allow me to assume those beans are the

same as our "green beans", they may have been similar.

 

        My gardening experience and the seed catalogs I recieve lead me to

believe that even what we know as "heirloom" vegetables, (open-pollinated,

old varieties) cannot be traced back more than 75-100 years. Our modern

varieties have been bred for tenderness, appearance, selective harvest

times, tolerance to adverse weather, resistance to disease and insects, etc.

For a definate answer I suppose we would have to look to archaeology, or

plant historians.

 

        OOHHH!... Just looked in "medieval English Gardens" In a treatise on

necessities for the country man, he says that one needs a small table on

which to mince or cut up vegetables, including beans in the pod! (12th

c)along with shelled beans, cabbage, leeks, onoins,lentils, peas, and

millet. (Neckham)   Hmmmmmmmm......

 

Comments, anyone?

 

Ceridwen

 

 

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:01:05 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>

Subject: Re:  SC - Green Beans

 

Greetings All from Ceridwen

        First I'd like to tell you all how much I have enjoyed this past

week's postings! The challenges, whether they be simple or complex, have

something for all of us! They have been wonderful!!!!.

 

        Comment on the Green Bean thing... John Gerard mentions 11 different

types of "Kidney Beans", with different characteristics of growing and

flowering, Friuting, etc. He says that 9 of those are common in English

gardens and are eaten both shelled (ripe) and " the friut and cods of Kidney

Beans boiled together before they be ripe, and buttered, and so eaten with

their cods, are exceeding delicate meat, and do not engender winde as the

other Pulses do" In the next paragraph, he goes on to describe the

praparation of the  unripe beans, including de-stringing them after being

parboiled.

 

        As for the Botanical evidence, I'm not entirely sure when and by

whom Latin classification was standardized, but Gerard names those beansas

follows;

        1. Phaseolus Albus - Garden or White kidney bean

        2. Phaseolus Niger - Black Kidney bean

        3. Smilax hortensus rubra - Red Kidney bean

        4. Smilax hortensus flava - Pale yellow Kidney Bean

        5. Phaseolus peregrinus fructu minore alba - Indian Kidney Bean with

a small white fruit

        6.Phaseolus peregrinus fructa minore frutescens - Indian Kidney Bean

with a small red fruit

        7. Phaseolus prergrinus augustifolius - Narrow leafed Kidnay bean

(with a small red fruit)

        8.Phaseolus Brasilianus - Kidney Bean of Brazil

        9. Phaseolus Egyptanicus - Parti-coloured bean of Egypt.

 

As an aside, he says that there is a bean called the "scarlet bean" which is

grown in a garden he knows of, that the pods have little hairs on them that

sting like nettles, possibly from the East Indies, but not eaten.

        He also discusses Lupines (boiles till the bitterness is gone, and

eaten with pickle), peas and lentils, garden beans (fava major hortensis)

and black beans (not eaten)

 

        Anyone care to take a stab at comparing Gerard's beans to ours,

horticulturally or otherwise?

 

Ceridwen

 

 

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 13:11:49 -0400

From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <ceridwen at commnections.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet

 

        Yep, I have Gerard's... and we did discuss this a few months back, but

anyway, here goes.

        Gerard states that there are 9 kinds of "kidney bean" known to him (and

quotes from other sources as well). These include some from India,

Egypt, and Brazil, as well as those grown in earlier times in the

Mediterranean. His illustrations resemble our lima bean far more than a

kidney bean, being flat ovals, and the pods are flat also with a

distinct string along the straight side. He says they come in several

colors, white, black, red, purple, and orange. The plants and flowers

resemble our lima bean much more than a string or shell bean, having

narrow leaves well apart on the stalks.

        Among the other legumes, he has lentils(2 kinds) garden peas (6 kinds)

several edible vetches, and the "garden bean" or fava, with 3 kinds

being known (white, yellow, and black)- the black being grown

ornamentally only, not eaten.

       There are no references to what we have now... string beans, although

he says that the favas and "kidney" beans may be cooked immature, in

their pods, and dressed with vinegar and salt as a "daintie meat"

 

Ceridwen

 

 

 

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:06:55 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet

 

Certainly there must have been beans of various kinds imported from

places like India and China to the Middle East, other than the chick

pea, the lentil, and the fava. The soy bean certainly was cultivated in

Asia very early in our period, and sooner. Other candidates are things

like mung beans (more or less a tiny variety of soybean) and several

varieties of chick pea that appear to have been more or less unknown to

most Europeans.

 

However, we don't really know that the kidney beans Gerard refers to,

are the String Bean Group from South America. Kidney bean is a perfectly

natural nomenclature based on shape, and it would be perfectly

acceptable to call even favas by that name.

 

As is often the case, the more you dig, the more confusing things

become...

 

Adamantius

 

 

 

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 00:35:22 -0800

From: "Melinda Shoop" <mediknit at nwinfo.net>

To: "SCA Arts" <SCA-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Beans in a Period Recipe

 

I am looking at recreating a recipe from Thomas Dawson's "The Good

Huswife's Jewell", published in London in 1596.

 

In a recipe titled, "To Defend Humors"  the reader is instructed:

 

"Take beanes, the rinde or the upper skin being pulled of, & bruse them and

mingle them with the white of an Egge, and make it sticke to the Temples,

it keepeth backe humors flowing to the eyes."

 

I want to know what type of bean available to the shooper today would match

the bean spoken of in the recipe, or, if this is not available, what could

be used instead.  Any other comments about this recipe, the humor theory,

or the role of the ingredients in the recipe would be welcome, if you are

familar with this work.

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

In Gratitude,

Lady Fiametta La Ghianda/Melinda Shoop

 

 

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:54:37 -0500 (EST)

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Beans in a Period Recipe

 

<<

I want to know what type of bean available to the shoper today would match

the bean spoken of in the recipe, or, if this is not available, what could

be used instead.  Any other comments about this recipe, the humor theory,

or the role of the ingredients in the recipe would be welcome, if you are

familar with this work.

  >>

 

     Well the bean part is easy---they were using fava beans. These are one

of the few old-world bean varieties, along with lentils and garbanzos

(chickpeas), plus the peas that our modern green peas descended from. Favas

look rather like limas, and tend to have a rather thick, tough skin that

fastidious cooks will often remove. It's not hard, just rather tedious---you

cook the beans lightly, cool them enough to handle, and squirt them out of

the skins. Then finish cooking and seasoning. This process is for the fresh

ones, if you can find them (Look in gourmet markets and stores that cater to

a Middle Eastern or Mediteranian community.), but with the dried ones the

pre-cooking soak will often loosen the skins enough to let you remove them.

That said, I rarely bother, since the skins don't usually offend my tastes.

The exception was some fresh ones that I helped prepare for a feast last

summer. The feastcrat had managed to find a source for frozen fresh favas,

that we used to make the Benes Yfryed  from Forme of Cury (Boil the beans,

drain, fry with chopped onions and garlic, sprinkle with powder douce [sweet

spices]). But either the variety was particularly tough or the frying caused

the problem, but they were a bit much even for me. And microwaving the

leftovers I got to take home *really* didn't help............ ;-)

    I can find several varieties of canned or dried favas in my local Indian

market, so I don't imagine they are *too* hard to get these days if you live

in a large enough place to have ethnic groceries. Now, if I can just manage

to get across town soon---I running low on several things from there! ;-)

 

Ldy Diana Fiona O'Shera

Vulpine Reach, Meridies

(Chattanooga, TN)

 

 

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:36:06 -0600 (CST)

From: Todd Lewis <telewis at comp.uark.edu>

To: SCA-ARTS list <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip

 

I came across an interesting passage in a chronicle entitled

L'Estoire de la Guerre Sainte, printed in Edward Noble Stone, trans.,

Three Old French Chronicles of the Crusades (Seattle:  University of

Washington, 1939).  The chronicle details the campaign of King Richard in

Third Crusade.  Describing a period of famine, the passage reads,

        "Back he came and they ate beans, being well-nigh mad with

hunger . . . A certain thing was sold in the host of God which they called

carob-beans.  These were sweet to the taste, and a man could get a mess of

them for one silver penny; and they were well worth the seeking.  With

these and with little nuts were many folk kept alive. . ." (p.65)

        A note in the text describes "carob-beans" as "Saint John's bread,

Ceratonia Siliqua."  I don't have much experience in medieval cooking, but

perhaps this is what is referred to in medieval recipes calling for beans.

 

        Lord Henry Percivale Kempe

        Shire-March of Grimfells

        Calontir

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:56:11 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - green beans

 

<<  why would you say green beans were one of the items quickly

and extensively used after discovery? >>

 

First, I would refer you to the posts from this list a while back when we

were having the great bean debate. ;-)

 

Secondly, we have a date, according to Toussaint-Samat of 1528, when seeds

were given to Canon Piero Valeriano by Pope Clement VII, who recieved tas a

gift from the New World.

 

The Canon planted the beans in pots and carefully noted germination rates,

growth patterns, etc. He commented speciffically on how productive they were.

Some of the resulting crop was used to prepare a dish which usually used

favas. The result was pronounced delicious and the beans were called fagioli.

The use of these beans swept throughout N. Italy,

 

At this time the Canon persuaded Catherine de Medici to include a bag of bean

seed in her dowry. The bean was loved by all and due to it's productivity was

only a fleeting "exotic" soon being grown all over Provence and other regions

where it ultimately (My Note: probably within 10 years) was known as "poor

man's food". Quote: "It's reputation as a cheap stomach filler guarenteed its

popularity".

 

IMHO, other sources and conjecture from eating habits support the supposition

supports the idea that green beans as opposed to dried beans per se were

eaten rather extensively because a handful of green beans is one serving.

Those same beans shelled as dry would amount to a mere taste. As  researchers

into food history we, as moderns, must be ever vigilant to remember that

until recently in history man's society was agricultural. Thusly, the quick

dispersal of a food product that was prolific and good for eating in several

stages of growth would have been, and indeed was, quickly accomplished.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:14:53 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - green beans

 

<< Pineapple, I can see. They are sweet which was craved. They are

unusual which makes them ideal for gardens of exotics.

Same goes for peppers and perhaps for Turkeys. They fill a percieved

need.

But green beans?>>

 

As noted in my previous post, the percieved need was filling bellies. The

planting of a single seed and harvest mutiple seeds only a few weeks later

would have assured it's place in the garden. With an average household

(including servants) of 20 mouths to feed this shouldn't be too hard to

grasp. :-)

 

To add to the green bean post> Jane Grigsom in her "Vegetable Book"  (as does

Toussaint-Samat clearly staes that the word "haricot" as used by the English

meant dried beans while SAME word in France denoted "green beans".

 

Such a dual purpose food which had the advantage of looking very similar to

an already known product, favas, would not have had the problem of exceptance

that such foods as tomatoes or potatoes would have (and did).

 

In storage dried beans keep very well while dried favas loose their flavor

and become rather insipid. As green beans they could have been eaten

throughtout the growing season and yet would have provided a crop of seed for

next year.

 

Add the ability to be substituted for favas in any recipe and thereby

producing a far more palatable product, it is not at all surprising that it

rapidly gained acceptance. When climate is taken into account, the use of

dried beans by the English and green beans by the French is readily apparent

as it would have been easy for the French to produce two or even three crops

a year where England would have produced one.

 

<< Stefan li Rous >>

 

Ras

 

 

Subject Re: SC - green beans

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 18:03:24 MST

From: DUNHAM Patricia R <Patricia.R.DUNHAM at ci.eugene.or.us>

To: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at msgphx1>, sca-cooks at Ansteorra.ORG

 

Having grown pole beans last summer and favas and Jacob's cattle beans

(one of the kinds you dry and make soup from) this summer...

 

The seeds you plant pole beans from look about a quarter the size, but

the same general bean-shape as a fava...  (about 1.5 times the size of a

seed pea-- we also had regular peas and sugar pods, both years).  I

don't think pole-bean seeds are sold for anything besides growing more

pole beans, to eat the flesh of, but that's a very casual opinion.   The

seeds you would see in frozen or canned green beans would be of an

immature size.  I think the kinds of beans you use for baked beans and

chili and so forth are not mature green-bean seeds, but types that are

grown specifically for the dried seeds, like the Jacob's cattle (an old

variety, name comes from they're brown and white speckled).  (Yeah, I

got inspired by John Thorne's latest book; I MAY have enough for one

batch of baked beans 8-).)

 

To a casual observer (me), green beans and favas appear quite similar

when growing.  We didn't stake the favas because we didn't understand

they'd try to grow to 6 feet! I think the leaves are generally similar

and the favas and pole beans both have climbing tendrils... the pole

beans' tendrils seem to be much sturdier and more active than the favas.

The fava pods are about twice the size of a green bean, same length,

but, well, --broader-- , and flatter rather than green-bean round...

they -look- like there'd be lima-shaped beans in them...  And before the

fava pods mature and start to dry, they're green.

 

The foliage of  the pole beans as I recall stay brighter green for

longer.  The favas started to fade (paler and paler green) sooner,

didn't seem nearly as vibrant as the other two types.  The real

difference is in harvesting... you pick the pole beans whole and eat

them out of hand clear thru the growing season 8-), or can or freeze or

whatever.  The drying beans stay on the bush while the pod goes tan and

papery as it and the beans dry.   (Then you pick and shell and winnow

the pod scraps out...)  And the Fava pods dry BLACK and withered looking

around the beans... a very odd effect.  And you sort of pry the pod off

in hard solid chunks.

 

So there's a lot of visual similarity between favas and green beans when

young and growing, and by the time you get the big harvest difference,

you've already eaten enough green beans to know a good thing!

Especially cause there is edible produce there from an early stage, on

the pole/green beans, which isn't available with the favas or

drying-beans (well, I didn't try either of those when they were little,

'cause I was pre-programmed to go for the storage end-product...)

 

Chimene

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:19:58 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - green beans

 

<< But do favas and green beans look alike? >>

 

No. They look similar. They are both legumes and have the basic

characteristics of all legumes. This includes but is not restricted to

flower structure, podded seeds, root nodules and, in the case of favas and

New World beans, SIMILAR l;eaf structure.. As noted in a previous post the

growing season is longer in New World types. Favas generally require cooler

growing temperatures and finish producing before hot weather sets in.

 

<<I thought favas were big, tan colored things similar to lima beans. In that

case, I don't think they look like or would be substituted for fava beans.

But I may not be right on what fava beans look like and will look for some.>>

 

You are right for the most part except you are forgetting that the fava is

surrounded by a darker colored sheath which is usually removed. The resulting

bean is SIMILAR in shape to N.W. beans, that is more or less kidney shaped.

Cooking times and techniques are almost identical for dried beans of both

families and mouth feel and texture are almost identical

<<The only green beans I know have seeds a bit smaller than green peas and

are encased in a little green sack or tube, fresh, canned or frozen. >>

 

There are many varieties of beans> Red kidney beans, Great Northeren, Lima,

Black beans, white kidney beans and my absolute favorite "horticultural"

beans which are white with burgundy markings, just to name a few. All of

these varieties vary in size and to a lesser extent shape. All can be

consumed in the green, immature state pod and all. All can be grown until

mature and used as a dried bean. Most are definitely NOT smaller than peas

with the notible exception of black eyed peas, black beans and the miniature

form of Great Northern (a name I can't recall) which is used in the Current

Middle Ages for the making of real Boston Baked Beans. And, yes, the beans

you are to that come in a "small" green tube including the tube is

collectively called a "green bean". The tiny seeds you notice are embryonic

forms of what would have matured into the familiar dry bean you are familiar

with.

 

<<If this is the immature seed, are the more mature seeds sold today? Perhaps

under a different name?>>

 

Generally, yes. See the above varities mentioned. For the most part, whether

beans are grown for eating when immature and encased in green tube-like

structures or whether they will be allowed to mature into seeds and shelled

out is a decision of the gardener depending on whether food needs are

immediate or not.

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:24:50 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Hummus and falafel

 

At 9:32 AM -0600 3/12/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote:

>I took note of a comment in an earlier message that there is no period

>documentation for hummus.

> 

>I am considered serving hummus and falafel as vegetable dishes in a future

>feast.  I would appreciate any input about the history of these two dishes.

> 

>Bear

 

"Hummus" means "chickpeas," and is a period ingredient. Hummus bi Tahini is

the familiar chickpea dip, and I have not found it in any period cookbook.

Sesame seeds are common in period Islamic cooking, but I don't think I have

seen anything that looks like tahini.

 

There are, however, period dips, or things that work as dips, of which my

favorite (also vegetarian) is badinjan muhassa; the recipe is in the

(webbed) _Miscellany_.

 

Is falafel made from chickpea flour? If so, you might want to consider

"counterfeit Isfiriya of Garbanzos" in _Manuscrito Anonimo_ as the closest

period equivalent, and try working on that instead. The recipe is:

 

Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isfîriyâ of Garbanzos

 

Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And

take some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and some

egg, and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in thin

cakes, and make a sauce for them.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:32:47 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Hummus and falafel

 

At 3:45 PM -0600 3/12/98, jeffrey stewart heilveil wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, david friedman wrote:

> 

>> Counterfeit (Vegetarian) IsfÓriy’ of Garbanzos

>> 

>> Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And

>> take some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and

some

>> egg, and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in thin

>> cakes, and make a sauce for them.

>> 

>> David/Cariadoc

>> http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

> 

>Cariadoc,

>I was wondering what spices might have been used at the time, as this does

>not sound far from what I generally use to make falafel.

- ---

This is the recipe used by Sayyid Abu al-Hasan and others in Morocco, and

they called it isfîriyâ. Take red lamb, pound it vigorously and season it

with some murri naqî', vinegar, oil, pounded garlic, pepper, saffron,

cumin, coriander, lavender, cinnamon, ginger, cloves, chopped lard, and

meat with all the gristle removed and pounded and divided, and enough egg

to envelop the whole.

- ---

A Recipe of Isfîriyâ

 

Take some red meat and pound as before. Put it in some water and add some

sour dough dissolved with as much egg as the meat will take, and salt,

pepper, saffron, cumin, and coriander seed, and knead it all together. Then

put a pan with fresh oil on the fire, and when the oil has boiled, add a

spoon of isfîriya and pour it in the frying pan carefully so that it forms

thin cakes. Then make a sauce for it.

 

Simple Isfîriyâ

 

Break however many eggs you like into a big plate and add some sourdough,

dissolved with a commensurate number of eggs, and also pepper, coriander,

saffron, cumin, and cinnamon. Beat it all together, then put it in a frying

pan with oil over a moderate fire and make thin cakes out of it, as before.

- --

The last two appear just before the counterfeit isfiriya recipe. So it

looks as though pepper, coriander, saffron, cumin, plus maybe cinnamon,

lavender, ginger, cloves, garlic and murri, would be the appropriate

spicing.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:55:31 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - European Grain/Legume combo?

 

At 12:56 PM -0800 3/28/98, Konstanza von Brunnenburg wrote:

> 

>I am searching for any documented European dish that combined a grain (i.e.

>cereal grass) product with a legume (e.g. beans, peas) product  -- the

>trusty vegetarian "complete protein" combo.  So far I've only found this in

>a couple of  Arabic recipes -- Caradoc's translations of "Khichri" and

>"Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isfî riyâ of Garbanzos".  I'd like to try

>substituting a grain/legume combo for meat in appropriate European recipes,

>and it would be great to be able to somehow *document* that a grain/legume

>combination was at least actually used in Period in (for example) England

>or Germany.  (Extra points for grain/legume documented as a Lenten

>substitute!)

 

As far as I can tell, they did not substitute grain/legume combinations for

meat in order to do meatless meals.  Fish is the usual substitute--which

probably isn't much help to you.  They did have pea and bean dishes, but

they aren't versions of meat dishes.  Note also that bread would have been

served with every meal--so you are getting a grain along with whatever else

is part of the meal.  Here are some bean dishes (original only; references

below).  The funny letter is meant to be a thorn: single letter for th.

 

Longe Wortes de Pesone

Two Fifteenth Century p. 89

 

Take grene pesyn, and wassh hem clene, And cast hem in a potte, and boyle

hem til they breke; and then take hem vppe fro the fire, and putte hem in

the broth in an other vessell; And lete hem kele; And drawe hem thorgh a

Streynour into a faire potte. And then take oynones in ij. or iij. peces;

And take hole wortes, and boyle hem in fayre water; And then take hem vppe,

And ley hem on the faire borde, And kutte hem in .iij. or in .iiij. peces;

And caste hem and the oynons into †at potte with the drawen pesen, and late

hem boile togidre til they be all tendur, And then take faire oile and

fray, or elles fressh broth of some maner fissh, (if †ou maist, oyle a

quantite), And caste thereto saffron, and salt a quantite.  And lete hem

boyle wel togidre til they ben ynogh; and stere hem well euermore, And

serue hem forthe.

 

Fried Broad Beans

Platina p. 115 (book 7)

 

Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan with

soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry them well

rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface, spread this into

the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it.

 

Benes yfryed

Curye on Inglysch p. 141 (Forme of Cury no. 189)

 

Take benes and see† hem almost til †ey bersten.  Take and wryng out the

water clene.  Do †erto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec †erwith; frye

hem in oile o†er in grece, & do †erto powdour douce, & serue it forth.

 

Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (1430-1450), Thomas Austin Ed., Early

English Text Society, Oxford University Press, 1964.

Platina, De Honesta Voluptate, Venice, L. De Aguila, 1475. Translated by E.

B. Andrews, Mallinkrodt 1967. (Both Platina and Kenelm Digby were published

as part of the "Mallinkrodt Collection of Food Classics." Reprinted by

Falconwood Press, 1989.)  Page numbers given herein are from the Falconwood

edition.

Curye on Inglysch: English Culinary Manuscripts of the Fourteenth Century

(Including the Forme of Cury), edited by Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon

Butler, published for the Early English Text Society by the Oxford

University Press, 1985.

 

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:36:47 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: SC - SC-reconstructions of medieval grain and legume dishes

 

Hi all from Anne-Marie

as promised, here's my reconstructions for medieval dishes that can be used

to combine grains and legumes. As Cariadoc has pointed out, this is not a

medieval concept, but these are reconstructions of medieval dishes, so I

guess its better than sneaking in your Veggie burger cuz there's nothing

else to eat.

 

Once again, formatting didn't transfer over well, and so if you need

citations, etc, let me know. And, of course, as always, if you choose to

use my recipes, that's great, just let me know and please cite me

appropriately.

Thanks, and enjoy!

- --AM

 

<snip of pea recipes. See the file peas-msg>

 

BENES YFRYED from Forme of Curye.

189 Benes yfryed. Take benes and Seeth hem almost til they bersten. Take

and wryng out the water clene. Do thereto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and

garlec therwith; frye hem in oile other in grece, and do therto powdour

douce, and serve it forth.

 

8T butter

2 large onions, chopped

4 cloves garlic.

Caramelize. Divide into two.

27 oz can Fava beans or 2x15oz cans garbanzos. Drain and rinse.

 

Fry the benes in 2T melted, bubbling hot  butter or olive oil over medium

hi heat until crunchy looking, about 10 minutes. Sprinkle with * tsp.

poudre douce.

 

Reconstruction notes: YUM!!!! Fava way tastier than garbanzos. Definitely

need to serve hot. Way to go Celeste!

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:53:42 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Need recipe ?beans?

 

Niamh of Wyvern Cliffes gave a recipe for pinto bean pie and wrote:

>Okay so its OOP thought you might like to try it. It is actually

>surprisingly good.

>PINTO BEAN PIE:

>1/2 c hot mashed beans

>1/2 stick oleo

>1 1/2 c sugar

>2 whole eggs

>1 c coconut

>1 c pecans

>1 (9-inch) unbaked crust...

 

Well, the pinto beans, coconut, and pecans are OOP but the basic idea, as

it happens, is period.

 

To Make a Tarte of Beans

A Proper Newe Book of Cookery p. 37/C11 (16th c. English)

 

Take beanes and boyle them tender in fayre water, then take theym oute and

breake them in a morter and strayne them with the yolckes of foure egges,

curde made of mylke, then ceason it up with suger and halfe a dysche of

butter and a lytle synamon and bake it.

 

To make short paest for tarte

A Proper Newe Book p. 37/C10

 

Take fyne floure and a curscy of fayre water and a dysche of swete butter

and a lyttel saffron, and the yolkes of two egges and make it thynne and as

tender as ye maye.

 

1/2 lb (1 1/4 c) dry fava beans 1/2 c curds (cottage cheese)    6 T butter

4 egg yolks     4 T sugar     4 t cinnamon

 

Crust:

6 threads saffron crushed in 1 t cool water     5-6 T very soft butter

1 c flour       2 egg yolks

 

Put beans in 2 1/2 c of water, bring to boil and let sit, covered, 70

minutes. Add another cup of water, boil about 50 minutes, until soft. Drain

beans and mush in food processor. Cool bean paste so it won't cook the

yolks. Mix in yolks; add cottage cheese (do not drain); add sugar, butter

(soft or in small bits), and cinnamon and mush. Will be a thick liquid.

 

To make crust, mix saffron water into flour; add egg yolks and mix well

(will be crumbly). Add 4 T butter and mix well; add enough of remaining

butter to make a smooth paste. (Amount used depends upon softness of butter

and warmth of kitchen.) Roll smooth and place in 9" pie plate. Crimp edge.

Pour into raw crust and bake at 350° for about 50 minutes (top cracks).

Cool before eating.

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:17:58 EDT

From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Wanted: recipes for Jacob's cattle beans

 

rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com writes:

<< like the

Jacob's cattle (an old variety, name comes from they're brown and white

speckled). (Yeah, I got inspired by John Thorne's latest book; I MAY have

enough for one batch of baked beans 8-).)

  >>

 

Jacob's Cattle beans are identical to "horticultural beans" which is what

they are. When cooked they loose the speckles and are all white. They can be

used in any bean recipe that calls for Great Northerns or Navy Beans. They are

New World. Hope this helps.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:43:33 -0400

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)

 

Ok, here you go, a recipie and everything.  This is from the book

"Feast-Day Cakes From Many Lands" by Dorothy Gladys Spicer

copyrite 1960, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY

 

'Fave die Morti (Beans of the Dead) - Italy

 

        Fave dei Morti, beans of the dead, are the little bean-shaped

cakes that Italians eat on November 2, Il Giorno dei Morti, or All Soul's

Day.  These small cakes, made of ground almonds and sugar combined with

egg, butter, flour, and subtle flavorings, are traditionally eaten

throughout Italy on the day that everyone decorates the graves with

flowers and says masses for departed souls.

         <snip explaination of church decorations, graveside florals>

        In spite of the somber beginning of Il Giorno dei Morti, the day

is far from gloomy.  To young men in and about Rome, the Day of the Dead

is the proper time to send engagement rings to sweethearts.  And to young

couples this 'festa' is the occasion to announce betrothals.  Fave dei

Morti, sometimes white, or tinted delicate pink, or chocolate color, play

an important part in these rites.  For the man sends the ring to his

fiancee in a conventional small square white box that is packed in an

oval container, full of the bean-shaped cakes.

          <snip explaination of other holiday observances>

        Fave dei Morti, beans of the dead, are rich and delicate little

cakes.  Despite their macabre origin, you will want them often.   Color

them orange and serve them at Halloween or Thanksgiving parties with ice

cream goblin or pumpkin molds. Or leave them white and store in tightly

closed tins, to serve with coffee or tea to unexpected guests.

 

        FAVE DEI MORTI

 

1/2 cup sugar

3 tablespoons butter

1/2 cup finely ground almonds (unblanched)

1 egg

2 tablespoons all purpose flour

1 tablespoon grated lemon rind

Vegetable coloring, if desired

 

Combine sugar, butter, and ground almonds.  Beat egg and add to other

ingredients, mixing thoroughly. Add flour and flavoring.  Work dough

until smooth and make into a roll about 1 1/2 inches in diameter.  Wrap

in waxed paper and refrigerate 2-3 hours.  Then cut off bits of dough and

mold them into kidney-shaped pieces about as large as lima beans.

Bake on greased cookie sheet in moderate oven (350 degrees) about 15-20

minutes, or until golden brown. Cool 5 minutes before removing them from

pan with spatula.  Yield: about 2 dozen small cakes.  '

 

I would infer from the "Add flour and flavoring" line that you should add

whatever flavor you wish at this stage, such as cocoa powder, lemon, etc.

Hope this is what your autocrat had in mind!

        Good Luck,

        Mistress Christianna MacGrain

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:12:35 -0400 (EDT)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)

 

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 16-Jun-98 SC - Fave dei Morti

(Beans .. by C. Seelye-King at juno.com

> Ok, here you go, a recipie and everything.  This is from the book

> "Feast-Day Cakes From Many Lands" by Dorothy Gladys Spicer

>  copyrite 1960, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY

 

Looks like the name has transferred since 1614 -- in Castelvetti, Fava

del Morte is actually a sort of fava bean paste.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:52:05 -0400

From: "Robert Newmyer" <rnewmyer at epix.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)

 

I found the following recipe thru a friend. Pretty basic but tasty. I have

no idea of the origin of this version but I thought a Fave de Morti recipe

that actually contains beans would be of interest.

 

Fava de Morti

(Fava Beans)

 

1 lb.   broad beans, dried

5   large garlic cloves, mashed

2   bay leaves

   salt

   pepper

   olive oil, extra virgin

 

Soak the beans in water overnight.  Next morning drain and put in pot with

fresh water, the garlic, and the bay leaves, and simmer until tender.  This

may take two to three hours, depending on the age of the beans.  Add water,

if necessary, but aim for a thick rather than runny sauce at the end.

Season with salt, pepper, and plenty of really good olive oil.  Serve with

lemon and parsley.  This dish is good tepid or at room temperature, and is

even better the next day.

 

from "Painters & Food - Renaissance Recipes" by Gillian Riley

 

               Griffith Allt y Genlli

               Bob Newmyer

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:17:44 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Fava alert

 

In a message dated 6/18/98 2:41:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, allilyn at juno.com

writes:

<< Does that mean the dried seeds inside the fava case, or does it mean food

processing cooked fava beans, as we usually eat them--green?   >>

 

I know that I have said this before but people of European descent can have

severe allergic reactions to fava beans. Please be cautious if you are of

European descent, espicially Mediterranean  ancestry. The offending part of

trhe bean is the gelatinous stuff between the pod and the bean in green fava

beans for the most part.

 

Ras

 

 

Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 16:54:25 MST

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

> Okay Bear, it's renaissence...but heres what you requested...Reference

> for your beans: fourteenth century.

> 

> 154. D'autres menuz potaiges...: Other Lesser Pottages, such as stewed

> chard, cabbage, turnip greens, leeks, veal in Yellow Sauce, and plain

> shallot pottage, peas, frenched beans, mashed beans, sieved beans or

> beans in their shell, pork offal, brewet of pork tripe -- women are

> experts with these and anyone knows how to do them; as for tripe, which

> I have not put in my recipe book, it is common knowledge how it is to be

> eaten.

> 

>                           The Viandier of Taillevent

> 

> Rayah

 

Thank you for the information. I don't have the Viander in my library, but

I will probably add it.  The reference is almost certainly to favas and I

have never come across it. Wonder if his unstated recipe for tripe is

similar to modern menudo?

 

Bear

 

 

Subject: Re: ANST --..Historical references to beans...

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 12:03:17 MST

From: peerage1 <peerage1 at flash.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

 

More windy talk *grin*

 

> Phaseolus vulgaris, the New World string bean.

 

Yes and no, that particular name that covers a very broad

category...please go and read this site:

 

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/rhodcv/hort410/peas/pe00003.htm

and

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/Indices/index_ab.html

 

> To my knowledge, there is no record of these having been consumed in

>Europe within the SCA period.

 

In answer to that from that site:

 

The four major cultivated species of Phaseolus bean all originated in

central and S. America. Ancient seeds of cultivated forms

have been found in Peru (dated to 6000 BC) and Mexico (dated to 4000

BC). Bean cultivation spread into N. America; finds

in New Mexico have been dated to around 300 BC. French beans were

brought to Europe in the early 16th century. Early varieties were all

climbers, and dwarf French beans were not commonly grown until the 18th

century.

 

another similar reference:

 

Distribution

 

Common beans are native to the New World, probably Central Mexico and

Guatemala. They were taken to Europe by the

Spaniards and Portuguese who also took them to Africa and other parts of

the Old World. Now they are widely cultivated in

the tropics, subtropics and temperate regions.

 

Herando Cortes is guilty of bringing "green" beans to europe. Date of

Cortes is 1485-1547

 

Now the beans which immediately were called "fagioli" then a century

later (1653) recieve the name of haricot beans. Pope Clement VII

Clement VII, Pope c.1475-1534, pope (1523-34), recieves several and

gives some to Canon Piero Valeriano who culivates them in Italy, as well

as passing on some beans to Catherine de' Merdici in 1533 who brings

them to France.

 

Main Entry: har·i·cot

Pronunciation: '(h)ar-i-"kO

Function: noun

Etymology: French

Date: 1653

: the ripe seed or the unripe pod of any of several beans (genus

Phaseolus and especially P. vulgaris)

 

> The later is the seed pod of Vicia faba, the fava or broad bean.  The

edible seed looks a little like a white lima bean.  This is the bean that

would be appropriate for a period feast.

 

Yepper, on the bean, BUT, Now, the ten dollar question: at what stage of

growth was the bean pod also used in medieval cookery preparation and

the color of the pod?

*grin*....

 

rayah

 

 

Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 13:10:49 MST

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

> > To my knowledge, there is no record of these having been consumed in

> >Europe within the SCA period.

> 

> Herando Cortes is guilty of bringing "green" beans to europe. Date of

> Cortes is 1485-1547

 

To be precise, I know of no use of unshelled New World beans in period

(which is what the menu that kicked this off suggested).

 

Introduction and cultivation does not equate to culinary use.  Tomatoes were

brought back to the Old World early on and known to be in Italy in 1534 and

in England by 1596, but they were used as ornamentals rather than food

plants.  Sweet potatoes were in common use early on, but the white potato

was generally ignored.  There is evidence that the white was imported into

Spain in 1573 as some form of emergency food and there is a German recipe

from the very late 16th Century for a potato dish, but as a general food

stuff white potatos didn't take off until the 18th Century.

 

> Now the beans which immediately were called "fagioli" then a century

> later (1653) recieve the name of haricot beans. Pope Clement VII

> Clement VII, Pope c.1475-1534, pope (1523-34), recieves several and

> gives some to Canon Piero Valeriano who culivates them in Italy, as well

> as passing on some beans to Catherine de' Merdici in 1533 who brings

> them to France.

 

To my knowledge, this is apocryphal.  Catherine was 14 in 1533, her family

was in dire straits financially having been on the wrong side of a bad civil

war, and her Uncle, Pope Clement, used her to cement a political alliance

with the French.  Her retinue belonged to the Pope and all those wonderous

Italian cooks went back to Italy with him.  She was a very small player in

French history until 1560, when she became Regent for her son.  She spent

the next 29 years making up for lost time, changing France's culinary tastes

in the process.  Unless there is primary evidence that she did receive

haricots from Canon Piero Valeriano, I would consider the story

questionable.

 

> Main Entry: har·i·cot

> Pronunciation: '(h)ar-i-"kO

> Function: noun

> Etymology: French

> Date: 1653

> : the ripe seed or the unripe pod of any of several beans (genus

> Phaseolus and especially P. vulgaris)

 

Yes, and how were they served? The best evidence I've seen is a late 16th

Century painting called "The Bean Eater," shows a peasant eating a bowl of

shelled beans.  The recipes I've seen would not work well with unshelled

beans.

 

> > The later is the seed pod of Vicia faba, the fava or broad bean.  The

> edible seed looks a little like a white lima bean.  This is the bean that

> would be appropriate for a period feast.

> 

> Yepper, on the bean, BUT, Now, the ten dollar question: at what stage of

> growth was the bean pod also used in medieval cookery preparation and

> the color of the pod?

> *grin*....

> 

> rayah

 

The dried pod is green around the edges and brown on the sides.  I haven't

seen a fresh pod or the growing plant.

 

To my knowledge, the pod is not used in medieval cooking, at least, I

haven't seen primary source recipe or description to that effect.  If you

have one, I would be interested in the source.

 

One of the reasons for not using the pod (in fact for not serving favas at a

feast) is that a number of people, usually of Southern European extraction,

display an allergic reaction to the fava.  This is commonly very mild , but

there is a small percentage who have an anaphylactic reaction.  Some

authorities believe Pythagoras died from an anaphylactic reaction to fava

beans after avoiding arrest by hiding in a bean field.

 

At any rate, I would not serve what we in the U.S. call "green beans" at an

"authentic" Medieval feast.  They would be Renaissance at best.

 

Bear

 

 

Subject: Re: ANST --..Historical references to beans...

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 22:27:44 MST

From: RAISYA at aol.com

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

 

I've been listening in on the discussion of period beans with interest.  I

have an interest in plants, not as much as a cook but as a gardener.  New

world shell beans were available before 1600 in Europe, whether or not they

were common, they were known in Europe within our period. I haven't found a

description of snap beans, I'd be interested in that.

 

Fava or broad beans, however, were not the only period bean.  Charlemagne's

CAPITULARE DE VILLIS (ca. 800 AD) refers to a "kidney" bean as well as a fava.

The 14th century TACUINUM SANITATIS IN MEDICINA includes illuminations of both

favas and another quite different plant called a bean.  There are several

obscure Old World candidates, the Asian dolichos or lab-lab bean seems to fit

the illumination and descriptions the best.  Additionally, in the TACUINUM

there are illuminations of a chickpea and a plant I haven't yet identified

called a vetchling that seems to have pods and was cooked much like the

beans.

 

>peas, frenched beans, mashed beans, sieved beans or beans in their shell

 

In the TACUINUM, the author recommends eating favas cooked in water and

vinegar and eaten unshelled to treat dysentary.  I generally get an impression

that the pods aren't considered too tasty, though, so this reference interests

me <G>.

 

I don't really care one way or another about the inclusion of New World foods,

that's the discretion of the cooks, or should be.  I just found this part of

the discussion intriguing. It's amazing what we can learn when we share

information.

 

However, my husband is deathly allergic to all legumes, and we had a bad scare

a while back when someone used the same spoon to stir several pots,

accidentally adding some peas to a dish that wasn't supposed to have any.

Luckily, he spotted a pea in his bowl.  Now, we rarely eat feasts that include

legumes, which means we won't be eating this one.  We don't eat pot-luck

feasts for the same reason.

 

BTW, one of the reasons for the importance of favas as a food had to do with

WHEN they were grown.  Favas don't tolerate warm weather and were planted

after other crops were harvested, getting extended use out of the same space.

New World beans are a tender warm weather crop.  Also, the fava seed I have

is flat, brown and large, larger than a quarter.

 

Raisya Khorivovna

 

 

Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 07:02:06 MST

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

> Fava or broad beans, however, were not the only period bean. Charlemagne's

> CAPITULARE DE VILLIS (ca. 800 AD) refers to a "kidney" bean as well as a fava.

> The 14th century TACUINUM SANITATIS IN MEDICINA includes illuminations of both

> favas and another quite different plant called a bean.  There are several

> obscure Old World candidates, the Asian dolichos or lab-lab bean seems to fit

> the illumination and descriptions the best.  Additionally, in the TACUINUM

> there are illuminations of a chickpea and a plant I haven't yet identified

> called a vetchling that seems to have pods and was cooked much like the

> beans.

 

You also have fasoles, which are an African variety of Vigna sinensis and

are the ancestor of the modern black-eyed pea.  Another variety commonly

called the cowpea has its origins in India.

 

Vetchlings are members of genus Lathyrus, but I haven't taken the time to

chase down the appropriate species.

 

> BTW, one of the reasons for the importance of favas as a food had to do with

> WHEN they were grown. Favas don't tolerate warm weather and were planted

> after other crops were harvested, getting extended use out of the same space.

> New World beans are a tender warm weather crop.  Also, the fava seed I have is

> flat, brown and large, larger than a quarter.

> 

> Raisya Khorivovna

 

A little casual reading last night suggests that there a couple varieties of

fava.  The chief difference appears to be the size of the seed.  There were

no comments on the difference in taste.  I think the seed you are describing

is the large seed variety.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:22:15 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)

 

> All the stuff

> I have on period beans tells me that favas are the most period variety,

> which isn't helping much... :>

> 

> Melisant

 

Take a look at cowpeas and black-eyed peas.  My understanding is that these

are variants of the same species which originated in India was brought to

Africa and entered Europe from Africa in the late Medieval period.

 

The black-eyed pea was presumably imported into the US as part of the slave

trade.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:43:06 -0800

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)

 

Hey all from Anne-Marie

 

re: nom de plums for fava beans....

 

see also broad beans, and "horse beans" of all things. The bins at our

middle eastern market show them to come in a wide variety of colors and

shapes and sizes, but the most common is either like a large browny green

lima bean with a thick leathery skin, or else the canned variety, which

resembles a brownish garbanzo bean with a thick skin.

 

As far as I know, "black eyed peas" and "cowpeas" are new world beans. They

may have been introduced to colonial america by the slave trade, but

several other new world foods like sweet potatoes and peanuts were as well

(amazing how things move so quickly, no? The porteugese see 'em here, and

bring 'em home and use them and next thing you know, the Africans are using

them, and then they come back home...) Anything with the genus Phaseolus

is. Fava, garbanzos and lentils are in the pea family. If you get a chance

to look at the plants, you can eaily tell the difference, and if you wanna

do a bit of dissection, the way the seed is assembled can tell the

difference too. Kidney beans are Phaseolus, and they have a "belly button"

in a certain place. Fava and friends have their "belly buttons" in a

different place.

 

- --AM, who is very angry with Mr Vehling for interpreting Apicius as being

for "french beans". Sheesh!

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:49:31 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)

 

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:

<< Cowpeas are Vigna unguiculata and are of Old World origin.

 

Bear >>

 

Correct. The Chinese yard long bean is also a Vigna. The unique thing about

CYL bean is that we have what is apparently an very close to life-like

illumination of it in a manuscript dating before discovery of the New World

Using that illumination as a reference point I planted these beans in my

garden this year. They work in all the period recipes we have for beans that

do not specify fava specifically. Oh, one other interesting thing about them

is that they come from the area that most of the Oriental spices (e.g.

cinnamon, etc. come from and the dried bean looks like a miniature red

kidney bean which are mentioned in period sources, IIRC.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that these were known in Europe but all the

circumstantial evidence adds up to the probability that they were known. If

they were known it would explain a lot about why Europeans accepted Phaseolus

beans so extraordinarily quickly. CYL beans a long and green, have kidney

shaped beans and most importantly they taste like Phaseolus beans in both

the green state and mature dried form.

 

Considering that CYK beans yield sporadically and present their harvest over a

long period of time, it is a small step to realize that they would have been

supplanted almost immediately by newly discovered beans from the New World

that had a flavor almost exact flavor, superior yield, grew rapidly and

enjoyed a relatively short total harvest season.

 

All of this does not add up to the fact that they were known but the

evidence available adds up to a likely possiblility.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:25:49 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)

 

At 9:40 AM +0200 12/5/98, Jessica Tiffin wrote:

>Please, can one of you American cooks give me an alternative name for fava

>beans?

 

Broad beans. I think I've also seen them labelled "fabiolo" or something

similiar in Italian or Spanish.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:36:12 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)

 

> Considering that CYK beans yield sporadically and present their harvest over a

> long period of time, it is a small step to realize that they would have been

> supplanted almost immediately by newly discovered beans from the New World

> that had a flavor almost exact flavor, superior yield, grew rapidly and

> enjoyed a relatively short total harvest season.

> 

> All of this does not add up to the fact that they were known but the

> evidence available adds up to a likely possiblility.

> 

> Ras

 

There is a 16th Century (IIRC) painting entitled The Bean Eater which shows

what appears to be a farmer eating a bowl of beans.  The beans are kidney

shaped, white with a black spot at the inside of the bend.  I haven't been

able to identify them, but I think they are some form of Phaseolus.  The

painting may support your contention of early adoption.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:15:51 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Broad (fava) beans more info

 

Bean, Broad -- Vicia faba L.

 

James M. Stephens

 

Broad bean is also known as horse bean, Windsor bean, English bean, tick bean,

fava bean, field bean, and pigeon bean. Broad

beans are sometimes classified into subspecies according to varieties and

their uses in various countries. Thus, subspecies faba

var. minor is the beck, tick, or pigeon bean, greatly used for human

consumption in the Arabic world, but also used for animal

forage, like the horse bean (var. equina ) specifically fed to horses. The

broad bean proper, also known as Windsor or straight

bean, is var. major . Indian varieties, generally dried and eaten as pulses,

are classified as subspecies paucyuga .

 

The origin of broad beans is obscure, but the best information indicates the

Mediterranean area. Remains are reported to have

been found in Egyptian tombs.

 

DESCRIPTION

 

Broad beans get their name from the seeds which are large and flat. Seeds

are variable in size and shape, but usually are nearly

round and white, green, buff, brown, purple, or black. Pods are large and

thick, but vary from 2-12 inches in length. The plant is an

erect, stiff-stemmed, leafy legume reaching 2-5 feet when mature. They are

quite different from common beans in appearance

because the leaves look more like those of English peas than bean leaves.

Small white flowers are borne in spikelets.

 

CULTURE

 

Broad bean is a long, cool season crop, requiring 4-5 months from planting

to harvest. In most of Florida it is best to plant from

September through March. It is grown as a summer annual in northern climates

and as a winter annual in warmer climates. In the

tropics it is adapted only at higher altitudes. Flowering is adversely

affected by dry, hot weather.

 

USE

 

The parts of the plants used are the seeds as a cooked vegetable. Pick the

beans when they are full-sized, but before the pods dry,

since they are a green-shell bean. They may also be used as a dry bean for

food and livestock feed. Broad beans are very

nutritious, containing 23% protein.

 

A word of caution is necessary because where these beans are eaten regularly

as the main diet, as in certain tropical countries, a

paralytic condition known as favaism has occurred.

 

Seeds are not as widely available as those of other types of beans. Most

local garden supply stores in the USA do not carry them.

The varieties `Long Pod' and `Giant Three-seeded' are often advertised.

 

Other Varieties Fava Beans.

Aquadulce

Ipro

Banner

Ite

Bell

Masterpiece

Bonnie Lad

Minica

Broad Windsor

Primo

Brunette

Relon

Bunyard's Exhibition

Suprifin

Colossal

Tezieroma

Express

Toto

Fava

Windsor

Hava

Witkiem Major

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:12:59 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans??

 

melisant at iafrica.com writes:

<< We do also get the little red kidney beans, which Ras suggested are also

mentioned in period sources - which ones? Could you post some recipes?? :>

  >>

 

The 'little red kidney beans' I mentioned  are the dried seeds of Chinese Yard

Long beans. These beans are very small averaging only about 1/3 of an inch

long. The product labeled 'kidney beans' in the supermarket are 2 to 3 plus

times larger and, SFAIK, are a species of Phaseolus therefore New World.

 

Chinese Yard Long Beans are not Phaseolus. And as indicated in my previous

post, their use in the Middle Ages is merely conjecture on my part. Until I

can find some evidence that clearly shows their use in medieval times, I

would be very hesitant about serving them at feast or claiming them as 'period'

for western cultures.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:14:55 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Black-eyed peas

 

phlip at bright.net writes:

<< Are you sure about that, Ras? I was always told that it was the other way

around, that black-eyed peas were actually beans. >>

 

Sorry for the confusion. Black-eyed peas are a member of the Vigna spp. They

are all commonly referred to as cowpeas. Technically they are , in fact,

beans.  The legumes have many terms used for their several categories

including beans, cowpeas, peas, lupines and other terms depending on the

individual chacteristics.

 

While black-eyed peas are in fact a bean, they are more accurately cowpeas

when  a descriptive term is applied to them. My apologies for the confusion

but I was trying to distinguish them from Phaseolus and specific other Vigna

spp.at the time.

 

My error :-(.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:15:55 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Black-eyed peas

 

> TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:

> << Since there are more varieties of beans than I have encountered, I

> leave the question of precise identification open for further research.

> 

>  Bear >>

> 

> Was there any accompanying text with the illustration that you cited which

> could shed any light on the matter? My possible illumination of a long

> green bean was merely a decorative element on the page and completely

> unrelated to the text. :-(

> 

> Ras

 

It was being used as a decorative illustration.  The particular piece is The

Bean Eater by Annibale Carracci (1560-1609).

 

Looking at a better reproduction from the wife's collection, the colors run

more toward tan, so it could be black-eyed peas which are being eaten.

 

I think the Italian title may be Mangafagioli.  If so, according to Root,

the fagioli refers specifically to haricot beans.  Unfortunately, we still

have the problem of artistic license.

 

Thanks for passing on the information about the coloration of cowpeas.

 

While rooting around in my stacks, I came across the information that your

Yard Long Beans are Vigna unguiclata sesquipedalis and are also commonly

named asparagus beans or Goa beans.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:43:29 -0600

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - Bean experiments

 

Tonight's Play in the Kitchen dealt with some bean experiments.  I don't

have any Fava beans, so the experiments still have a great gap, but

having washed, soaked, rinsed and cooked pea beans, pinto beans, great

northern beans, navy beans, chick peas and lentils I don't find much

taste difference in any of them.  What little there might be would be

covered with the onions and garlic that seem ubiquitous to period

preparations.  Once brayed, they'd look almost the same, too, except for

a bit of color difference, and that could be changed with the recommended

saffron.

 

Now, all that being so, what is the point of driving for a hour or two to

find Fava beans just because they were the ones we know were grown?

There may be a moral imperative here, as to being totally period (of

course, I'm cooking these on an electric stove and storing in a frig) but

when the resulting bean mush is all the same, I feel that the dangers of

serving Fava beans to people with a variety of  unknown health

problems--ancestry, medications, etc.--are not worth the doing.

 

Allison

allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA

Kingdom of Aethelmearc

 

 

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:10:27 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Bean experiments

 

allilyn at juno.com writes:

<< Now, all that being so, what is the point of driving for a hour or two to

find Fava beans just because they were the ones we know were grown?

There may be a moral imperative here, as to being totally period (of

course, I'm cooking these on an electric stove and storing in a frig) but

when the resulting bean mush is all the same, I feel that the dangers of

serving Fava beans to people with a variety of  unknown health

problems--ancestry, medications, etc.--are not worth the doing.

>> 

 

Please don't take this personally but I find there is a very great difference

in flavor between all the varieties that you mentioned especailly favas and

the other beans. Also there is circumstantial  evidence that suggests that

several other beans may have been grown in period besides favas, such as

yard long beans and black-eyed peas.

 

The gist of your post, if I read it correctly, is that you feel the

similarities warrant their use. You also feel that supposed difficulty in

obtaining them coupled with a rare allergic reaction to favas also warrant

their exclusion. These insignificant factors alone then warrant the

substitution of Phaseolus species for known Old World species. Am I correct?

 

If so, my position is that ease of attaining ingredients should not be a

factor. Simply use other recipes which do not call for the product, grow

your own or, most significantly, have your grocer order them for you.

 

Similarities with New World products sounds like a reasonable reason. However,

this observation is based on your personal taste. I can tell the difference

between different varieties of green beans, potatoes and tomatoes among other

things. To my palette those differences are real enough to cause me to not

prepare certain dishes if the variety necessary for the dish is not available.

The flavor diffierence between favas, lentils, chickpeas and New World beans

is so glaring to a trained palatte that they are as different as licorice,

oranges, walnuts and grapes.

 

In addressing the allergy angle, the reaction to favas is EXTREMELY rare and

is limited to persons descended from ancestors that come from a very narrow

Mediteranian region. If we were to use this argument we would have to leave every known food out of feasts, especially since allergies to nuts, assorted

fruits, alliums, dairy products, seafood, fish and wheat are more wisespread

than fava allergies.

 

When we come across rare or unusual ingredients in recipes the far better

route, IMO, would be to try to obtain the ingredient or forego using the

recipe rather than compromise the truth by degrading cookery from a

respected art/science to the level of 'slopping the hogs'.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:02:57 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Lupini Beans??

 

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:

 

<< I can't place them, but it is possible that you are talking about lupine

seeds.  Lupine or lupin is a generic name for members of the genus Lupinus

in the pea family.  Lupines have been cultivated since the Bronze Age, so it

is very likely they were known in period.

 

Bear >>

 

Lupini are EXTREMELY poisonous if eaten raw and must be thoroughly cooked

which removes the poisons.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:52:04 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Lupini Beans-update

 

CONRAD3 at prodigy.net writes:

<< Yes these do look similar to what I saw, but the ones I saw were dried

beans. >>

 

In my previous post I said that lupines were poisonous and must be cooked

before eating to render the poison harmless. This is only partially correct.

Of the 100+ species of lupines, the white lupine has been bred to produce a

few non-poisonous

varieties. The others are still grown, however, so caution would be the best

route when using these beans because variety is not usually listed on the

package.

 

Historical additions:

 

Although these  legumes grew wild in Italy and Greece and were collected and

used by both cultures, they were not cultivated until the Roman empire. They

were considered a food for the poor and great cauldrons of them were prepared

for the poor on certain festival days. By the beginning of the Italian

Renaissance, they disappear from culinary tomes and are not  mentioned

again until after that period.

 

Toussant-Samat in History of Food talks about them a little. Poisonous

properties and a minor amount of history was mentioned in The Visual Food

Encyclopedia.

 

Although considered by many in the Current Middle Ages to be at best an

Italian ethnic food, the vast majority of gardeners today grow them for there

beautiful white, mauve and pink  flowers, for which they have been known

throughout history.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:30:13 -0500 (EST)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Lupini Beans-update

 

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 23-Jan-99 SC - Lupini

Beans-update by LrdRas at aol.com

> for the poor on certain festival days. By the beginning of the Italian

> Renaissance , they disappear from culinary tomes and are not  mentioned

> again until after that period.

 

That is not entirely correct -- both Platina and Castelvetro discuss

lupines.  Castelvetro says :Our womenfolk and little children nibble at

lupin beans between meals during the hottest summer days.  They are very

bitter but can easily be sweetened by putting them in a canal or deep

stream of clear running water, in a thightly fastened bag securd to a

pole or hook, so that the current flows right through them.  The lupins

are left there for two or three whole days, until they have lost their

bitterness and become sweet. Them they are peeled and salted and

nibbled more as a snack than anything else, the sort of thing that only

appeals to pregnant women or silly children.  Dried lupins are used to

fatten pigs and other animals. (He also mentions that lupin beans can

be used to drive away moles and enrich poor soil)

 

Platina doesn't talk about the beans, but does advise cooking and eating

the stalks like you would asparagus.  From the description, "harsh" and

"they are very bitter", it is likely the same plant.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:43:56 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Lab Rat Redux (cooking exper.)

 

Alia Atlas writes:

<< Boil green beans (This probably refers to something like fava beans.  These

are no string beans.  String beans are a New World food.) >>

 

Correct about the phaseolus green beans. But as I posted sometime ago, using

a picture of an illuminated manuscript I found in a book (source unknown now

but when found will be posted), I still am of the opinion that either Chinese

yard long beans or, possible young black-eyed peas were the actual 'green

beans ' referred to during period. The yard long beans look EXACTLY like the

illustration when a photo is placed side by side and in real life. Also the

dried beans of the yard long beans is a perfect miniature of what we know of

as 'kidney' beans. So there is a possibility that when 'kidney bean' is

mentioned in period manuscripts the yard long in a dried state is also meant.

 

I know that this is all circumstantial evidence but I would bet my money that

yard longs are the evasive period 'green' and 'kidney' beans.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 17:30:43 -0800

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>

Subject: Re: SC - Lab Rat Redux (cooking exper.)

 

Valoise Armstrong wrote:

> Just one quick note. I believe gruene can refer to fresh beans as well

> as green beans.

> Instead of dried beans, you might try this with fresh ones.

 

The Middle English 'grene' also means 'new', 'untested/untried', even

'raw'. And holds hints of the supernatural.

 

'Lainie

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:09:08 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Period green beans

 

ringofkings at mindspring.com writes:

<< Could the asparagus pea or winged lotus (Tetragonorobus purpureus) have been

what was described as 'green beans?  You eat them pod and all and they do look

more like beans than peapods. It is listed in Gerard as the four square

velvet pea.

 

Akim >>

 

Absolutely. I only references yard long beans because I grew them a couple of

years in a row and they look so much like the 13th century illumination that

is down right eerie :-) The period recipes for 'green beans' and 'kidney'

beans also work extremely well with this variety in my experience. Is a there

are source for a picture of the beans that you mention? I looked in my seed

catalogs and can't find them . :-(

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:40:18 -0500 (EST)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?

 

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 22-Feb-100 Re: SC -

Suggestions for a .. by Bronwynmgn at aol.com

> Did I miss something?  I can't see anything in the original that

suggests the

> bean paste should be put into pastry and fried.  It looks to me like you

> should serve the pureed beans hot with olive oil, pepper or cinnamon, and

> raisins.  More like refried beans.

 

No, you didn't, I think I did. I've loaned out my copy of the

manuscript, but somewhere in the recipe for favetta it says that wrap

them in paste and fry them, and that ladies keep these in little boxes

for delicate nibbling.

 

Sorry about that.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:31:59 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

> I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago. They never

> completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them for

> several hours.  I've been reluctant to use them ever since.

>

> Mercedes

 

I've had this problem with dried legumes which have been stored for extended

periods and have not discovered a satisfactory answer.  It may be they need

to be soaked longer or be cooked for an extended period or both.  I have not

had the problem with dried legumes purchased shortly before use from my

local health food store which sells them in bulk and has a high turnover.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:41:04 +1000

From: "Lee-Gwen Booth" <piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

From: Mercedes

> I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago.  They never

> completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them

> for several hours.  I've been reluctant to use them ever since.

 

Simple solution!  Invest in a pressure cooker - I would not be without mine.

It does amazing things to dry beans and makes the most wonderful brown rice

imaginable (what is more, do it properly and you don't even have to drain

it.  Ready, cooked, soft and delicious, and in its own serving dish in about

20 minutes!

 

Gwynydd of Culloden

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:09:11 -0400

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

Mercedes skrev:

>I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago.  They never

completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them for

several hours.  I've been reluctant to use them ever since. <

 

I ran into the same problem a few years ago with black beans- I boiled them

off and on for almost a week before they were soft enough to eat. It turned

out that they were from a very old batch, and they'd just dried far more

than we're used to dealing with from the store. I suspect this might be what

had happened to your chick peas, as I've had it happen to a lesser degree

with other dried beans.

 

The trouble with moderately exotic dried beans is that their shelf life is

indefinite, and if you combine very slow rotation of stock, with an impulse

buy, where you get them and keep them around for an extended period of time,

looking for a recipe, you'll get that extra drying problem.

 

My suggestion would be to try another package from a store where you're

reasonably sure that they have a good turnover- either a ME store, or a

chain in an area where you have either a lot of Mediterranean ethnic groups

or upscale Yuppie types, and see how they work. Another alternative is to

buy the canned variety- just keep in mind, that they're already well-salted,

and you don't need to add more.

 

Phlip

 

Philippa Farrour

Caer Frig

Southeastern Ohio

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:12:12 +1000

From: "Lee-Gwen Booth" <piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

One other hint - do not add salt to the cooking water - it means tough

beans!

Gwynydd

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:44:55 EDT

From: Etain1263 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

phlip at morganco.net writes:

<<

The trouble with moderately exotic dried beans is that their shelf life is

indefinite, and if you combine very slow rotation of stock, with an impulse

buy, where you get them and keep them around for an extended period of time,

looking for a recipe, you'll get that extra drying problem.

  >>

 

Even "normal" dried beans are several years old!  I learned this when I lived

in Michigan..where they grow a great many of the "navy" and "great northern"

beans for market!  someone gave me a large bag of "fresh" dried beans...from

that year - and they cooked up almost immediately!  Wow!  What a difference!

The farmers sell to the grain elevators...who store until they have enough to

transport to the packagers....who package and store until the prices are

"right"...sometimes it's a year or more.

 

Etain

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:08:27 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: SC - Tough Beans?

 

> One other hint - do not add salt to the cooking water - it means

> tough beans!

> Gwynydd

 

        This was something my late husband used to say, and I never understood

it.  If your beans are 'tough', then they aren't cooked enough.  If you

don't salt the water as the beans are soaking it up, you will never get

the salt into the beans, just in the fluid surrounding it.  So, how do

you end up with tough beans? Sounds more like "tough noogies" to me.  

 

        Christianna

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:04:53 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Chickpeas

 

mercedes at geotec.net writes:

<< I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago.  They never

completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them for

several hours.  I've been reluctant to use them ever since.

Mercedes >>

 

Dried chickpeas take longer to cook the older they are. I made the Brodo

using canned chickpeas and it was fantastic. The difference between canned

and dried is that you don't have to precook them. They are done. Before the

fresh/unprocessed crowd chimes in, there is little if any difference between

canned chickpeas and those made from scratch. The ingredients listed were

chickpeas, water and salt. I used the broth as part of the recipe and used

additional salt to taste.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:04:23 EDT

From: CBlackwill at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request

 

piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au writes:

>  One other hint - do not add salt to the cooking water - it means tough

>  beans!

>  Gwynydd

 

Actually, this is little more than a wide spread myth, I'm happy to say.  

Adding salt to beans while they are cooking does not affect their tenderness

in any appreciable way.  There may be some tiny chemical reaction, but it is

unnoticeable in the finished product.  Salt away, and eat the beans when they

are tender.

 

Balthazar of Blackmoor

 

 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:50:13 -0500

From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Chickpeas

 

> Dried chickpeas take longer to cook the older they are. I made the Brodo

> using canned chickpeas and it was fantastic. The difference between canned

> and dried is that you don't have to precook them. They are done. Before the

> fresh/unprocessed crowd chimes in, there is little if any difference between

> canned chickpeas and those made from scratch. The ingredients listed were

> chickpeas, water and salt. I used the broth as part of the recipe and used

> additional salt to taste.

 

Actually the difference is cost.  I can buy a pound of dry chick

peas for less than a dollar and when cooked I have my large crock pot

full.  I can buy a 10-1/2 oz can of cooked chickpeas for around $1.29

When weighing the two options for making a meal for a large group, I

would prefer to go with dry just for pure cost effectiveness.

 

Melbrigda

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:26 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Chickpeas

 

catwho at bellsouth.net writes:

<< Actually the difference is cost.  I can buy a pound of dry chick

peas for less than a dollar and when cooked I have my large crock pot

full.  I can buy a 10-1/2 oz can of cooked chickpeas for around $1.29

  When weighing the two options for making a meal for a large group, I

would prefer to go with dry just for pure cost effectiveness.

Melbrigda >>

 

I can buy #10 cans for $2.29 (a gallon). I would say that in view of quantity

and fuel costs that is a pretty good deal. :-)

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:38:56 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: SC - Three Easy Pieces, or Verjus Redux

 

The Shire of Crosston, with whom i camp, has a period pot-luck feast

at every Crown Tournament (3 per year in the West). There are always

guests, so there are around 2 dozen diners or so, and frequently

other folks show up looking for food and we feed them, as well.

Generally, there's plenty. At The West Kingdom March Crown Tourney

just passed, I made three dishes from Barbara Santich's "The Original

Mediterranean Cuisine" for the Saturday night feast. I didn't use her

"redactions" for any of them, just referred to the originals and the

translations.

 

VERJUS REDUX

I have now used the Fusion brand Napa Valley Verjus that i bought

from Whole Foods and i thought it was quite nice. I tasted a spoonful

of it before pouring some into the dish i was cooking - i'm weird, i

probably could have drunk a juice glass of it - it was tart and

fruity, but not bitter. I used it in a recipe for garbanzo beans

cooked in almond milk.

 

This was not the unpleasant white grape Fusion brand verjus that

Niccolo di Francesco wrote about. I used the Fusion red verjus, which

was a lovely purplish red color and was neither unpleasantly tart nor

at all bitter, as Niccolo says the Fusion white was. I don't have the

recommended Navarro brand to compare it with, but the Fusion red was

quite good.

 

PIECE ONE

 

Ciurons Tendres Ab Let de Melles

(from Sent Sovi)

 

ORGINAL: Si vols apperellar ciurons tendres ab let de amelles, se ffa

axi: Prin los ciurons, e leva'ls be. E ages let de amelles, e mit-los

a coura ab la let e ab holi e ab sal; e met-hi seba escaldade ab

aygua bulent. E quant  deuran esser cuyt, met-hi jurvert e alfabegua

e moradux e d'altres bones epicies [should be 'erbes'] e un poc de

gingebre e de gras. E quant hi metras los ciurons, sien levats ab

aygua calda, que tentost son cuyts.

 

TRANS: If you want to prepare tender chickpeas with almond milk, do

it thus: take the chickpeas and wash them well. And take almond milk

and set them to cook with the milk and with oil and with salt; and

put in it onion scalded with boiling water. And when they should be

cooked, put in them parsley and basil and marjoram and other good

spices [should be 'herbs'] and a little ginger and verjus. And when

you add the chick peas, wash them with hot water that they should

cook more quickly.

 

[NOTE: the insert "should be 'herbs' is from Santich's book, i didn't

add it. I cooked the recipe with herbs and no additional spices.]

 

WHAT IT DID:

(1) I used canned garbanzos, rather than soaking and boiling my own.

I've cooked garbanzos from scratch, and while they are, hmmm, mealier

(a good quality) than canned, which are sometimes a bit slimy (i

usually rinse them), i haven't noticed a vast difference in the

quality of a dish made with one or the other.

 

(2) I bought organic, whole, unroasted almonds to make almond milk,

but i didn't have time to make it. I was going to make it Thursday

night and bring it in a bottle, but I was appliqueing and

embroidering my consort's fighting surcote as well as hand-sewing a

couple wool tunics for myself, so i didn't get around to it. When it

was time to cook, i used boxed organic almond milk that i'd bought to

drink - it has a little, very little brown rice sweetener and some

vegetable thickeners (guar, xanthan, carageenen, and locust bean

gums). But not so much that it is a vastly different creature from

homemade almond milk, which I would have preferred, but i don't think

the dish suffered greatly.

 

I dumped the drained garbanzos into my kettle, then poured in enough

almond milk to cover (i wasn't trying to make soup) and added some

salt and a little olive oil. While it was beginning to heat, i finely

chopped a small onion and added it without first scalding, as i

didn't bring enough pans.

 

After warming and stirring, i began to add other seasonings. I added

white pepper (for personal reasons i don't use black pepper) and

dried ginger powder. It's an amazingly good dried ginger powder that

i bought at the health food store. When i tasted the liquid it seemed

as if i'd used too much ginger and white pepper - it was quite "hot"

- - and while that doesn't bother me, i know some people at the feast

don't like food that's too "piquant". But after i let it cook a bit,

then tasted again with chickpeas in my tasting spoon, it was fine. I

cooked it until the onion was tender and mild.

 

I had bought fresh organic herbs. At this point i added lots of

chopped flat-leaf parsley and fresh basil. I didn't see fresh

marjoram at the store, so i tossed in fresh thyme and oregano, going

easy on the oregano so it wouldn't take over. When the herbs were

cooked and the broth was well flavored, i added the verjus, stirred

to distribute, then left it to warm for a minute, and removed the pot

from the fire. Personally, i'd like to have added more verjus, as i

like strong flavors. But it was fine, adding a bit of tang to the

dish.

 

PIECE TWO

 

Cauli Verdi con Carne

(from Libro della Cocina)

 

<snip of cabbage recipe. See vegetables-msg>

 

PIECE THREE

 

On Preparing a Salad of Several Greens

(from de Honesta Voluptate)

 

<snip of salad recipe - see salads-msg>

 

- ---------------

 

I picked these dishes because they were relatively quick and easy to

prepare at a busy event, yet authentic. I was actually done cooking

before the others who cooked on site. (i mention this because i'm

usually still cooking when everyone is already eating)

 

Anahita al-shazhiyya

 

 

Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 07:31:21 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: An Test was Re: SC - Truck Crops

 

> Bear wrote:

> >BTW, Root also says, "...fagioli refers specifically to the New World bean."

> >Fagioli also refers to the black-eyed pea, which is definitely Old World in

> >origin.

>

> When were black eyed peas introduced, if ever, to Europe? Were they

> eaten in North Africa in Medieval times, i.e., would they have been

> eaten in North Africa after 600 and before 1600? I've got this bag of

> 'em in the freezer...

 

The term "phaseolus" from which from which "fagioli" is derived appears in

Roman writings.  From context it appears to refer to kidney shaped beans

which are distinct from "faba" or fava beans (Vicia faba).   While this does

not preclude some variety of fava being the bean referenced, it does

demonstrate that the Romans acknowledged a difference.  The term appears in

Roman writings after the beginning of major trade with Africa which

increases the probability that they were writing about some form of the

black-eyed pea.

 

The black-eyed pea (Vigna unguiculata var. sinensis (IIRC)) is a bean of

Asian origin with several major varieties, including the yard-long bean (V.

unguiculata var. sesquipedalis).  Phaseolus likely refers to any of these

related plants.

 

For visual evidence of their use at the end of the 16th Century, take a look

at Annibale Carracci's The Bean Eater (Il Mangafagiolo).  

 

It should be noted that while the black-eyed pea was eaten in Italy within

period, and probably before, there is no evidence I have encountered to show

it being used elsewhere in Europe.

 

> Anahita al-shazhiyya

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 09:30:34 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: SC - Phaseolus recipes

 

Platina 7.14

 

On the Kidney Bean

 

There is the kidney bean, phaseolus or phasellus, which Virgil calls lowly.

Apuleius writes that this name comes from the island of Phasellus, not far

from Mt. Olympus.  Kidney beans have warm and damp force.  Their use

lubricates the bowels and is fattening, moves the urine, and is good for

chest and lungs but fills the head with gross and bad humors and brings on

dreams, and indeed bad ones. Its cold and harmfulness can be reduced to

some degree by sprinkling with majoram, pepper, and mustard.  After [eating]

kidney beans, it is necessary to drink pure wine.

 

 

Platina 7.33

 

Dish Made from Peas

 

Let peas come to a boil with carob.  When they are taken from the water, put

in a frying pan with bits of salt meat, especially that balanced between

lean and fat.  I would wish, however, that the bits had been fried a little

beforehand.  Then add a bit of verjuice, a bit of must, or some sugar and

cinnamon.  Cook broad beans in the same way.

 

 

Recipe 7.33 is problematical. The Latin text in Milham states, "Hoc item

modo et phaseolos coquito."  Milham translates this as "cook broad beans in

the same way."  Elsewhere in the text, broad beans appear as "fabam" and

kidney beans appear as "phaseolus."  The pattern of translation suggests

that the "broad beans" of this recipe should be translated as "kidney

beans."  As the two preceding recipes are for broad beans, it is possible

that this apparent translation error is a printer's typographical error.

 

According to a footnote, the recipe is taken from Martino and was entitled

in his work, "Per fava li piselli fritti nella fava menata."  Said title

suggests that broad beans are meant rather than kidney beans.

 

Bon Chance

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:21:08 -0600

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translation issue

 

At 22:57 -0400 2003-04-07, Patrick Levesque wrote:

> This is a very basic question: I'm wondering about the exact meaning of

> 'grams'. (The french-english dictionnaries I have here are not of much

> help, unfortunately, being stuck on the metrical measurement).

> 

> Do they only refer to pulses and legumes in general, or does the term

> indicate a narrower selection therein? Webster's definition is 'any of

> several beans' which quite frankly doesn't lead one very far...

> 

> It seems safe to assume that chickpeas would be included, but I want to

> verify this before I adapt a new recipe.

 

If you are referring to Indian cuisine, then 'gram' generally

refers only to the chick pea and very close relatives, such as

'channa' which is like a small chick pea with its skin removed,

and with the pea split.  'Gram' flour is made from 'channa'.

 

Nevertheless, for our greater confusion, 'gram' is occasionally

used to refer to some other legumes, such as moong beans and

horse gram.

 

Thorvald

 

 

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Translation issue

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:57:50 -0500

 

Gram refers to a number of plants including chickpea (Bengal gram) whose

seeds are used for food in Asia.  It derives through Portuguese from the

Latin "granum" (grain), suggesting a 16th Century origin for the usage.

  The mung bean (Vigna radiata, green gram or golden gram) and the urd (Vigna

mungo, black gram) are also among the grams.  Cowpeas, black-eyed peas, and

yard-long beans (V. unguiculata), pigeon pea (Cajanus cajan), soybeans

(Glycine max) and lentils (Lens culinarius) are sometimes included in

the grain legumes.

 

Gram also refers 1/1000 of a kilogram (standard metric measure). From

The French "gramme" (small weight) derived from the Latin "gramma" (small

weight) derived from Greek.

 

And one must not forget Gram, the sword of Sigmund, broken by Odin,

Repaired by Regin, and used by Sigurd to kill Fafnir.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:23:25 -0400

From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Duh

To: "SCAFoodandFeasts" <SCAFoodandFeasts at yahoogroups.com>,    "SCA Cooks"

        <Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Ok, if I'd just scrolled down the page, I would have seen them.  My bad.

Here is the recipe for anyone who's curiosity I've peaked:

 

Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isfî riyâ of Garbanzos

 

Andalusian p. A-1

 

Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And take

some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and some egg,

and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in thin cakes,

and make a sauce for them.

 

chickpea flour: 1 c

sourdough: 1/2 c

eggs: 4

spices:

2 t pepper

2 t coriander

16 threads saffron

2 t cumin

4t cinnamon

1/4 c Cilantro, chopped

 

Garlic Sauce:

3 cloves garlic

2 T oil

2T vinegar

 

Chickpea flour can be made in a mortar and pestle or a spice grinder (a food

processor would probably work too). Pound or process until the dried

chickpeas are broken, then remove the loose skins and reduce what is left to

a powder. An easier approach is to buy the flour in a health food store; a

middle eastern grocery store might also have it. Use untoasted chickpea

flour if you can get it.

 

Crush the garlic in a garlic press, conbine with vinegar and oil, beat

together.

 

Combine the flour, sourdough, eggs, spices and beat with a fork to a unform

batter. Fry in about 1/4 c oil in a 9" frying pan at medium high temperature

until brown on both sides, turning once. Add more oil as necessary. Drain on

a paper towel.

 

note: The ingredients for the sauce are from "A Type of Ahrash [Isfî

riyâ ]". What is done with them is pure conjecture.

 

 

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:07:23 +0200

From: Ana Vald?s <agora at algonet.se>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Duh

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Another variation of an old recipe from Ligurien, i Italy, eaten today

in the north of Italy and in Nice, where is known as "socca". In Italy

is known as "faina", in a dialectal word. (Outside Europe you can eat it

in Rio de la Platas capital cities, Buenos Aires and Montevideo, where

the Italian  inmigrants took the dish in the beginning of the century).

 

Pound garbanzos and make flour of them (or alternative buy the chickpeas

flour)

Put the flour in a bowl and add olive oil enough to make a very thin

dough, similar in consistence to the dough to make pancakes.

Add salt and black pepper.

Lay the dough in a flat oven pan and heat the oven to a very high

temperature.

Let it bake in the oven until the thin cake have a brown and crusty cover.

Eat very warm powdered with blackpepper.

 

Ana

Christine Seelye-King wrote:

 

<<< 

Ok, if I'd just scrolled down the page, I would have seen them.  My bad.

Here is the recipe for anyone who's curiosity I've peaked:

 

Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isfî riyâ of Garbanzos

 

Andalusian p. A-1

>>> 

 

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:34:48 -0400

From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Duh

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Also sprach Ana Valdés:

<<< 

Another variation of an old recipe from Ligurien, i Italy, eaten

today in the north of Italy and in Nice, where is known as "socca".

In Italy is known as "faina", in a dialectal word. (Outside Europe

you can eat it in Rio de la Platas capital cities, Buenos Aires and

Montevideo, where the Italian inmigrants took the dish in the

beginning of the century).

 

Pound garbanzos and make flour of them (or alternative buy the

chickpeas flour)

Put the flour in a bowl and add olive oil enough to make a very thin

dough, similar in consistence to the dough to make pancakes.

Add salt and black pepper.

Lay the dough in a flat oven pan and heat the oven to a very high temperature.

Let it bake in the oven until the thin cake have a brown and crusty cover.

Eat very warm powdered with blackpepper.

>>> 

 

The socca recipes I've seen also call for water, along with the olive

oil. Authorities seem to differ on whether it should be paper thin or

slightly thicker. Usually the cooking method is like that of a pizza,

except the dough would be referred to in English as a batter. If you

can pour it, and cannot pick it up in your hands without tools,

that's a batter. With a couple of exceptions, but generally...

 

On an only marginally related note, the other big Provencale

chick-pea-based street food (you generally don't see these on

restaurant menus) would be panisse, which is a thick boiled porridge

of ground chick peas, which is spread on a plate to cool and

solidify, after which it is cut into strips and fried like French

fries, in olive oil...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:40:00 -0400

From: Tara Sersen Boroson <tara at kolaviv.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] garbanzos/chickpeas

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote:

> Does one soak garbanzo beans/chickpeas prior to cooking, or not?

> 

> -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

I assume you mean dried ones - yes, you need to soak them.  They are too

big to cook down like lentils.

 

-Magdalena

 

 

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:02:07 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gunthar Updates

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> Really! Black-eyed peas?  I always thought they were of African origin.

> Not that I doubt your extensive knowledge, but do you have references

> on  hand?  I imagine I may have to defend this one if I use them! :)

> 

> Aoghann

 

Consider the Latin "phaseolus" which is distinct from "faba".  Phaseolus is

the term for kidney bean.  It's Italian derivative is fasoli. Both

phaseolus and fasoli predate Columbus and the arrival of the New World

kidney beans in genus Phaseolus.  While it is not certain that phaseolus

referred to the black-eyed pea, it is a generally accepted opinion.  Fasoli

still includes the black-eyed pea in modern usage.

 

Apicius has a recipe for "Faseoli" and Platina has recipes for "phaseolus"

(IIRC) translating from Martino's Italian.  Modern confusion occurs because

of the work of taxonomists in the 16th and 17th Centuries using Phaseolus as

the genus name for the New World string-beans.

 

There are a number of members of genus Vigna, which are of Asian and African

origin, and commonly referred to a black-eyed peas, cowpeas, asparagus

beans, yard long beans, etc.  These are found in long pods which resemble

the string-beans.  It was this resemblence which caused Columbus to identify

some of the New World beans as "faxones."

 

I've got no hard and fast dates on when the Vigna arrived in Europe, but it

was certainly no later that the 1st Century CE and it may have been brought

to Europe during the prehistoric migrations.  I tend to think it may

come from Asia with Alexander's armies.

 

The best evidence of black-eyed peas being eaten is Europe is fairly late.

It is a 16th Century painting by Annibale Carracci, The Bean Eater, which

shows a peasant eating a bowl of black-eyed peas.

 

Bear

 

 

 

 

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:43:07 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beans, beans...

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I wrote:

> Also in the 14th C. Tuscan cookbook are recipes for "fasoli", which

> is "beans", but since most of what we call "beans" are New World, and

> favas have their own name, what does "fasoli" mean?

 

In response to several posts:

Fasoli are not fava beans. Favas have their own *sections*, one for

fresh and one for dried.

Fasoli are not chick peas. Chickpeas have their own section.

Fasoli are not red beans. Those are New World and the 14th C. is way

prior to Columbus...

 

Could they be black-eyed peas or a relative? Field peas (which are

grey) or are these the peas? Something else?

 

In the order in which they appear:

7 Chickpea [ceci] recipes

5 Pea [pesi] recipes

5 Fresh Fava [fave sane] recipes

- - "fave sane" means "whole favas" but it's clear from the recipes

that they are fresh.

2 Dried Fava [fave infrante] recipes

- - "fave infrante" means "split favas" but it's clear from the

recipes that they are dried.

2 Lentil [lenti] recipes

3 Fasoli recipes - it's entirely not clear from the recipes if they

are fresh or dried, although i lean toward dried, since they are

boiled first before adding them to the recipes.

 

Here are the originals and Vittoria's translations:

 

[57]

De' fasoli. Fasoli bene lavati e bulliti, metti a cocere con oglio e

cipolle, con sopradette spezie, cascio grattato, et ova dibattute.

 

Beans well cleaned and boiled, set them to cook with oil and onions,

with aforementioned spices, grated cheese, and beaten eggs.

 

[58]

Altramente al modo trivisano. Metti fasoli bulliti, descaccati, a

cocere con carne insalata, e con pepe, e zaffarano. E possonsi dare

soffritti con oglio, postovi dentro un poco d'aceto, amido e sale.

 

Another preparation in the style of Treviso.  Put boiled beans,

shelled, to cook with salted meat, and with pepper and saffron. And

this can be served fried in oil, put in a bit of vinegar, starch, and

salt.

 

[59]

Altramente. Tolli i fasoli bulliti, e gittatane via l'acqua, mettili

a cocere con carne di castrone, di porco, o di bue, o qualunche

vuoli, e molto pesta, e un poco di zaffarano e sale, e da' mangiare.

 

Another preparation.  Take boiled beans, and throw away the water,

set them to cook with mutton, pork, or beef, or whatever you like,

and grind it well, and a bit of saffron and salt, and serve it.

--  

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 22:54:39 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beans, beans...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:

> Also in the 14th C. Tuscan cookbook are recipes for "fasoli", which

> is "beans", but since most of what we call "beans" are New World, and

> favas have their own name, what does "fasoli" mean?

> --

> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

 

The Medieval Kitchen by Redon, Sabban & Serventi

talks about "fasole or faseole. This was an African legume

belonging to the family Vigna and was very similar to the New

World Phaseolus vulgaris. The fasole has more or less

disappeared, but you can easily find its descendant: the black-eyed

pea."  page 94

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 22:14:45 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beans, beans...

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Fasoli (phaseolus) refers to kidney beans.  Any bean that looks like a

kidney, not just the red ones. The word appears in Pliny, so it obviously

applied to a type of legume before the New World beans arrived.  Most of the

authorities I've checked believe that phaseolus refers to members of genus

Vigna although some suggest that it may have originally been some form of

fava bean.

 

If you look up the painting "The Bean Eater," you'll find the poor fellow

eating black-eyed peas.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:34:26 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 27, Issue 41

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I honestly believe that "fasoli" is a variant of fava, from the Roman  

Phaseoli mentioned by Pliny.

 

Today, "fasoli" is the Greek word for fava, and the popular bean stew  

of Southern Italian origin — which gets slurred into pastafazool —  

initially was pasta fasoli in some Southern dialects, notably  

Sicilian and Neapolitan, the strongly Greek-influenced regions of the  

country (where also today "fasoli" means beans, but it seems to mean  

beans in general; however, I believe that which bean "fasoli"  

referred to would vary by region to region and village to village).

 

There were "white" favas and "black" favas; undoubtedly there were  

other varieties, heirloom types that no longer exist today. Fasoli  

could very well refer to one of these specific fava variants.  

Considering how many different types of favas were cultivated in 18th  

century Williamsburg, I have no doubt there were just as many  

varieties being cultivated in medieval Tuscany.

 

Gianotta

 

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 20:32:10 -0800

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Uses for fava beans....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I don't think so. One of them has a name that refers to

pistachios--because the green favas look like pistachios.

 

But I haven't tried it.

 

> Would using reconstituted (soaked) dried ones work in the fresh-beans

> recipes?

> --Maire

 

 

 

Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:27:31 -0700 (PDT)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Green beans was My Next Feast

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

   Actually there are period (prior to 1600) recipes for Green beans  

and a whole host of other new world foods.  You just have to look.  

Here are some of the ones I found from Italian sources either in or  

post period (this is taken from the class I gave at Pennsic).

 

   Recipes from Scappi [5], Messisbugo [6] and Castelvetro [7]

   This is where it gets tricky. How do you tell the difference  

between an old bean recipe and a new bean recipe when the same name  

is used for each?  This is the one situation where the appellation  

"of India" or "of Turkey" was not added to the name of the plant to  

distinguish it from what came before the one exception to this is a  

description from Castelvetro [7].  Capatti & Montanari [8] indicate  

that both Scappi and Messisbugo have recipes for green beans, however  

this is the one occasion where no end note is given.  Judging from  

the recipes themselves however, these are the ones calling for "fresh  

beans" which are replacing black eyed peas or cow peas as a fresh  

bean type vegetable.

   Per far minestra di piselli, & fave fresche con brodo di carne Cap  

CLXXXVIII secondo libro, Scappi

   Piglinosi li piselli freschi nella sua stastione, laqual comincia  

in Roma dal fin di Marzo, & dura per tutto Giugno, come sanno ancho  

le fave fresche, sgraninosi li detti piselli, & ponganosi in un vaso  

di terra, o di rame con brodo grasso, & gola di porco salata,  

tagliata in fette, et faccianosi bollire fin'a tanto che siano quasi  

cotti, & pongavisi una brancata d'aneci, & petrosemolo battuto, &  

facciano si finir di cuocere; et volendo fare piu spesso il brodo,  

pestisi un poco di essi piselli cotti, & passinosi per lo setaccio, &  

mescolinsi con li piselli intieri giungendovi pepe, & cannella, &  

servanosi con le tagliature della gola di porco.  Si potrebbeno  

cuocere con li detti piselli teste de capretti pelate, &  

pollastrelli, piccioni, paparini, & anatrine ripiene. Si pu? fare  

ancho in un'altro modo, cio? cotto che sar? il pisello con il brodo,  

si potr? maritare con uova, cascio, e spetierie.  In tutti li sudetti  

modi si possono cuocere le fave fresche.

   To make a dish of peas and fresh beans with meat broth, Chapter  

188, 2nd book Scappi.

   Take fresh peas in their season, which starts in Rome at the end  

of March and lasts through all of June, which is also that of fresh  

beans.  Shell the said peas and put them into an earthenware pot or  

copper pot with fat broth and salted pork jowls cut into slices let  

them boil until they are almost cooked.  Then add a handful of dill  

and parsley chopped and let it finish cooking.  And if you want to  

make the broth more dense grind a few of the cooked peas, pass them  

through a strainer and mix them with the intact peas, adding pepper  

and cinnamon.  Serve them with the cut pieces of pork jowl.  One can  

also cook the said peas with skinned goat heads, and pullets,  

pigeons, doves and ducks stuffed.  One can also make it in another  

way, that is when the peas are cooked with the broth one can enrich  

it with eggs, cheese and spices.  In all these described ways one can  

also cook fresh beans.

   Per fare minestra di Piselli, & Fave fresche Cap CCXLIX, terzo  

libro, Scappi.

   Piglinosi i piselli o baccelli, sgraninosi, & ponganosi in un vaso  

con oglio d'olive, sale, & pepe, & faccianosi soffriggere pian piano,  

aggiungendovi tanta acqua tinta di zafferano, che stiano coperti di  

due dita, & come saranno poco men che cotti, pestisene una parte nel  

mortaro, e stemperisi con il medesimo brodo, & mettasi nel vaso con  

una branchata d'herbuccie battute, e faccianosi levare il bollo, e  

servanosi caldi.  In questo medesimo modo si pu? accommodare il cece  

fresco, havendolo prima fatto perlessare, & fatto stare per un quarto  

d'hora nell'acqua fresca.  In questo modo ancho si cuoce il fagiolo  

frescho.

   To make a dish of peas and fresh beans, chapter 249, 3rd book,  

Scappi.

   Take the peas or beans, pod them and put them in a pot with olive  

oil, salt and pepper, and let them fry very slowly.  Then add enough  

water, which has been colored with saffron, that the beans are  

covered by two fingers.  When they are a little bit less than fully  

cooked, grind a few and mix them with the same broth, and put them  

back into the pot with a handful of chopped herbs and bring back to  

the boil and serve hot.  In this same way one can cook fresh chick  

peas, having first parboiled them and let them soak for a quarter of  

an hour in fresh water. In this same way one can also cook fresh beans.

   A fare fasoletti freschi in tegola.  Page 113 Messisbugo

   Pigliarai le tegole de fasoletti quando sono tenerini, e tagliarai  

il picollo, poi le porrai a cuocere in'acqua bogliente, e subito si  

cuoceranno, & cotte che seranno le porrai a scolare col sale sopra,  

poi le frigerai in olio overo butiro, e frigendole nella patella, li  

porrai un poco di Aceto, e Pevere, e poi li imbandirai.

   To cook fresh beans in the pod, page 113 Messisbugo

   Take the pod of beans when they are tender, and cut them into  

little pieces, then put them to cook in boiling water, and they will  

be cooked almost immediately. And when they are cooked drain them  

and sprinkle them with salt, then fry them in olive oil or butter in  

a frying pan.  Add a little bit of vinegar and pepper before serving  

them.

 

   De? fagiuoli turcheschi, Castelvetro

   Nella passata stagione ho a pieno ragionato della fava fresca e  

secca; or qui mi convien ragionare de? fagiuoli, frutto o legume  

molto simigliante a quelle di gusto; e di due spezie ne abbiam noi,  

n? di niuna crudi mangiamo. L?una ? de? men communi e pi? grossi, li  

quali son tutti o bianchi over macchiati di rosso e di nero. L?altra  

spezie ? de? pi? minuti e tutti bianchi con un occhio nero nel  

ventre. I primi si nominano turcheschi, li quali ascendono molto in  

alto; per? chi non gli pianta vicino alle siepi conviene, volendone  

aver molto frutto, piantarvi a canto de? rami di fronde secchi, a?  

quali appiccandosi possano in alto montare; e perch? portano una  

bella foglia verde, le donne in Italia e spezialmente in Vinezia, ove  

son molto vaghe dell?ombra e della verdura e ancora per poter dalle  

finestre loro vagheggiare i viandanti senza da coloro esser esse  

vedute, usano di porre su le finestre delle camere loro alcune  

cassette di legno lunghe quanto ? larga la finestra,

  n? pi? larga d?una buona spanna e piene d?ottima terra; in quella  

piantano dieci o dodici di que? fagiuoli a luna crescente di febraio  

o di marzo o d?aprile, e poi con bastoncin bianchi vi formano una  

vaga grata alla quale essi s?attaccano, s? che d?una piacevole ombra  

tutta la finestra adombrano. Gli ortolani ancora ne? colti loro fanno  

siepi di canne o di bastoni bianchi della canape, a canto alle quali  

piantano quantit? di simile legume, e cos? vengono alla vista a  

rendere i loro orti pi? vaghi e maggior coppia di fagiuoli  

raccolgono. I baccelli adunque di questo legume, mentre son verdi e  

teneri, n? alla lor perfetta grandezza pervenuti, cocendoli tutti  

intieri e acconciandoli come de? lupuli ho mostrato, son molto buoni.  

Secchi poi se ne fanno buone minestre, cocendogli in ottimo brodo.

   On turkish beans.

   In the past season I have given full account of the fava been  

fresh or dried, now I shall give an account of the fagioli (bean)  

fruit or legume very similar to that tasted, and the two species we  

have no-one eats raw.  The one is less common and is larger, it is  

all white or flecked with pink and red.  The other species is much  

smaller and is all white with a black eye in the middle.  The first  

we call Turkish, it grows very tall, so you should grow them against  

a trellis, or if you want a lot of fruit (a good crop) plant them  

against dried sticks or branches, the which fasten themselves tightly  

to it so they can raise themselves up.  Because the they have  

beautiful green leaves, the women in Italy, especially in Venice,  

where there is much longing for shade and of greenery and also to be  

able to have the windows desireable to passers by without color being  

lost, They place around the windows of their rooms several wooden  

boxes, as long as the width of the window, if not

  larger by a good span, and full of good dirt.  In this they plant  

tent or twelve of these beans in the new moon of February or March or  

April. Then with white sticks they make a rough trellis to which  

these attach themselves, and this creates a pleasant shade over all  

the windows so adorned. The market gardners still collect canes from  

the hedgrows or white sticks from the hemp, against which they plant  

a number of these same beans. And thus they come to make the view of  

their garden more desirable and also collect more beans.  The bean  

pod of this bean, when it is young and tender, is at it's most  

perfect point, cook them all intact and dress them as I have  

described for hop sprouts *, and they are very good.  When they dry  

one can make good dishes (minestre), cooking them in the best broth.

   * - ben bene sgocciolata in un piatto netto posta, con sale, con  

assai olio, con poco aceto, od in suo luogo succo di limone, e un  

poco di pepe franto e non polverizzato l?acconciamo - very well  

drained in a clean plate with salt, enough oil and a little vinegar,  

or in place of that lemon juice, and a little cracked but not  

powdered pepper we dress them.

 

 

<<< --Anne-Marie:..if you want a period veggie instead of the new world haricots, I highly

> recommend the "new peas in the pod", <> you can often find frozen sugar

> snap peas (much tastier than the snow

> peas) in the frozen veggie section.<

 

Yeah, sounds better too! I happened to find "enough" bags of green beans on

sale {2 lbs./$1.00} at a store going out of business. And have been

worrying myself about their quality ever since. Since the seating capacity

of the hall is being limited to 60 diners, I am willing to keep the green

beans for myself. Shoot, I should open a bag tonight . . . . Caointiarn  >>>

 

 

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:04:36 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetables and are you all still there?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

And here we can once more tell everyone that the award winning

BEANS A History by Ken Albala is well worth the price. Old world beans

versus new world ... it's all in there.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:35:00 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetables and are you all still there?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<<

While it appears that some New World beans were adopted by Europeans in

the 16th C. (i'm not sure which ones... Bear? Adamantius? Anyone else?)...

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita >>>

 

This research paper at the Colonial Williamsburg website is worth looking

over http://www.history.org/history/CWLand/resrch2.cfm .  It's in the

Gardening > Research area of the site.  There are a number of other plants

covered in other papers.

 

You might also find Bermejo and Leon's "Neglected Crops from 1492 a

different perspective" of interest.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0646e/T0646E00.HTM

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:59:07 -0400

From: euriol <euriol at ptd.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wanted: Bean Recipes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Here are three recipes from Marx Rumpolt (courtesy of

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_veggie1.htm):

 

19. Beans cooked with beef broth and bacon/ that is cut small

also with green welltasting herbs/ that are chopped small.

 

20. Roman beans [fava beans] you can prepare on a meat day/ shells [skins]

included with a beef broth/ ginger and butter. But if it is on a fast day/

so cook it with peabroth/ pepper and butter

so they become lovely and good.

 

21. You can also fry beans with bacon/ so they become good and welltasting.

 

I have cooked recipe 21 a couple of times. I cook 1 pound of bacon until

crispy leaving the drippings in the pan and draining the bacon on a towel.

I then add 3 cans of garbanzo beans (chickpeas) which have been rinsed and

drained to the bacon fat, until the chickpeas get slightly browned. This

was very popular mixed with the roasted onion salad I prepared for a feast

3 years ago. The reason I choose chickpeas was one of my friends asked me

not to use fava beans.

 

Euriol

 

 

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:26:10 -0400

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wanted: Bean Recipes

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

#41 Fasoli

Coce li fasoli in aqua pura ho in bono brood; he quando serano cotti, tole

cipolle tagliate suttile he frigele in patella [f? 15r} cum bono olio he

mette de sopra queste cipolle fritte cum pipero he canella he zaffrano; poi

lassali reposare sopra las cinere calda uno peza; et poi fa le menestre cum

specie bone de sopra.

 

Kidney Beans (#41)

Cook the kidney beans in pure water or good broth; wheny they are cooked,

get finely sliced onions and fry them in a pan with good oil and put these

fried onions on top [of the beans] along with pepper, cinnamon and saffron;

then let this sit a while on the hot coals; dish it up with good spices on

top.

 

ORIGINAL TEXT & TRANSLATION

Scully, T. (2000).  Cuoco Napoletano - The Neapolitan Recipe

        Collection: a critical edition and English translation.

        Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.)

 

Niccolo's Recipe

Serves 6 to 8

 

1 pound fields peas, crowder peas, black-eyed peas, or similar

1 medium onion, sliced thin

1 tsp black pepper

1 1/2  tsp cinnamon

10 strands saffron crushed steeped in 1/4 cup very warm broth

 

Cook Kidney beans in water or broth until just tender (or use high quality

canned).  Fry sliced onions in a pan with oil; add saffron and remove from

heat immediately. Put the beans in single layer in a shallow casserole; on

top of the beans sprinkle with black pepper, cinnamon and then

onions/saffron spread evenly on top.  for larger quantities, layer beans and

onions alternately.   Bake at 350F for about 30 minutes.

 

 

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:18:13 -0400

From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pinto bean recipe

To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>,   Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Traditional Jewish Sabbath stew known as Cholent, Hamim, and Dafina

(and other names) is a dish of basically meat and beans with some

kind of grain.  Ashkanzi Jews (Eastern Europe) usually use meat,

barley, beans and some root veggies, while Sephardic uses chickpeas,

lamb, rice or bulger, pumpkin and later sweet potato.  There is a

recipe in A Drizzle of Honey. I have found several others.

 

Sindara

 

 

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:58:00 -0500

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Question of Dried Beans

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Mairi Ceilidh <jjterlouw at earthlink.net> wrote:

<<< Can someone point me toward period sources that discuss or describe

soaking dried beans or peas prior to cooking? >>>

 

Here's one.

 

From the Menagier de Paris:

"OLD BEANS which are to be cooked with their pods must be soaked and

put on the fire in a pot the evening before and all night; then throw

out that water, and put to cook in another water..."

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html

--

Brighid ni Chiarain

My NEW email is rcarrollmann at gmail.com

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:35:59 -0500

From: Sayyeda al-Kaslaania <samia at idlelion.net>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] converting to gluten free

 

I wonder if someone more experienced with gluten free cooking can talk

about how best to make this gluten free? Could I substitute xanthan gum

and water for the sourdough? I figure I need to play with it, but I'm

hoping not to re-invent a wheel. :)

 

Sayyeda al-Kaslaania

 

*******************

Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isf?riy? of Garbanzos

Andalusian p. A-1

 

Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And

take some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and

some egg, and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in

thin cakes, and make a sauce for them.

 

1 c chickpea flour

4 t cinnamon

? c sourdough

? c cilantro, chopped

4 eggs

? t salt

2 t pepper

 

garlic sauce:

2 t coriander

3 cloves garlic

16 threads saffron

2 T oil

2 t cumin

2 T vinegar

 

[snipped] Crush the garlic in a garlic press, combine with vinegar and

oil, beat together to make sauce. Combine the flour, sourdough, eggs,

spices and beat with a fork to a uniform batter. Fry in about ? c oil in

a 9? frying pan at medium high temperature until brown on both sides,

turning once. Add more oil as necessary. Drain on a paper towel. Serve

with sauce. Note: The ingredients for the sauce are from ?A Type of

Ahrash [Isf?riy?]? (p. 96) which is from the same cookbook. What is done

with them is pure conjecture.

 

How to Milk an Almond Stuff an Egg And Armor a Turnip: A Thousand Years

of Recipes

By David Friedman and Elizabeth Cook ISBN: 978-1-460-92498-3

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/To_Milk_an_Almond.pdf

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:40:05 +0000

From: yaini0625 at yahoo.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] converting to gluten free

 

Does this recipe require a sourdough starter or actual sourdough bread?

If it calls for sourdough bread and you don't want to make a loaf of gluten free bread try Udi's brand bread- not Rudi's.

For sourdough starter we have experimented with rice flour, xanthum gum, yeast and water. It doesn't have the same traditional "sour" taste as sourdough bread but it was good.

 

Aelina the Saami

 

 

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 22:07:19 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cannellini beans

 

<<< Anyone know if these [cannellini beans] are period and what a good substitute may be?

Thank you, De >>>

 

Like all Phaseolus vulgaris, cannellini beans are New World and not period.

 

I don't think there really is a substitute, a recipe that calls for

them would be out of period too.

Better to look for a recipe with garbanzos, black eyed peas, favas or

one of the other old world beans

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 23:12:00 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cannellini beans

 

Actually in the case of the beans, the New World post Columbus Voyages  

of Discovery beans were adopted

into European cuisine and gardens in the 16th century. (Period extends  

to 1600, doesn't it?)

One of the problems with the beans in various European countries is  

that new beans

often just supplanted the old and kept the same name as the old.

 

Here again I recommend Ken Albala's award winning book Beans A History.

We've mentioned Professor Janick's work at Purdue before with regard  

to his work at the Villa Farnesina in Italy and the New World plants  

that are depicted there.

Albala mentions that the Phaseolus beans can be found in the festoons  

and swags of various paintings in the villa.

 

Perhaps Baroness Helewyse's paper below will help you with suitable  

16th century recipes.

 

A time for change : new world foods in old world menus.  This was the  

class I did for Pennsic 35 in 2006, discussing the spread and use of  

various new world foods (squash, beans, turkey, corn) and the lack of  

spread of the tomato into 16th century Italy.

 

http://www.medievalcookery.com/helewyse/

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:09:18 -0700 (PDT)

From: Honour Horne-Jaruk <jarukcomp at yahoo.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cannellini beans

 

Respected friends:

--- On Sat, 10/8/11, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com> wrote:

<<< Like all Phaseolus vulgaris, cannellini beans are New World

and not period.

 

I don't think there really is a substitute, a recipe that

calls for them would be out of period too.

Better to look for a recipe with garbanzos, black eyed

peas, favas or one of the other old world beans

 

Ranvaig >>>

 

If it's the flavor that matters, the closest match is going to be _peeled_ garbanzo beans- tedious, but do-able. All the old world true beans except Favas went extinct through non-cultivation when Phaseolus vulgaris came in, so there are a fair number of period bean recipes for which such substitution is your only option. You can't use favas both because of their very strong, earthy taste and because of a nasty little biological trick we played on ourselves, called favism, where a dangerous reaction to undercooked or raw favas developed as a protection against malaria and then went way overboard.

 

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-

(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.

Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict

 

 

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:58:21 -0500

From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cannellini beans

 

Thank you for some directions. Cannellini is a white bean and some sources

that I have found say the great northern and navy are substitutes. The

recipe is a cannellini torta which one source has the bean as far back as

Roman times but most others pretty much have it in Peru and making it's way

to the Italian states around late 1400s and into the 1500s. The original

recipe that got me curious has no claims of historic origins but when I

looked in other sources of a similar recipe, they claimed to be adaptations

of a renaissance recipe. Of coarse, no citations.

I figured that it is modern but I wanted to see if by chance it could have

been in SCA period. The original recipe that started my quest has cocoa and

vanilla, the "renaissance ones have cinnamon and almonds instead but

everything else is the same.

As weirdness would have it, I received my "La Cucina Italiana magazine

today. It has an article on beans and bean recipes. Their cannellini torta

is called "Flan dolce di cannellini con ricotta e cacao" :)

Thank you again for the help. I will be making both recipes one day just to

see what they taste like.

 

De

 

 

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:34:29 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cannellini beans

 

<<< Thank you for some directions. Cannellini is a white bean and some sources

that I have found say the great northern and navy are substitutes. >>>

 

Navy and great northern are also New World beans, which are (as

Johnna corrected me) only period in a few places, late in period, as

novelties.  Certainly not Roman.

 

I've never seen any history for the various varieties of new world

beans or how old they are.  I suspect that they date to before the

beans came to Europe.  I don't think anyone knows what variety the

earliest beans in Europe were, and doubt there is any reason to

consider one New World bean as more period than another.

 

<<< The

recipe is a cannellini torta which one source has the bean as far back as

Roman times but most others pretty much have it in Peru and making it's way

to the Italian states around late 1400s and into the 1500s. >>>

 

The new beans were given the same name as the old ones, and used in

the same recipes.   It is *possible* that your recipe is old and was

was originally made with one of the Old world beans.

 

I checked the index of Apicus for "bean" and "torta" and don't see

anything like this.    The notes say that one word now associated

with beans, actually meant peas then.  Apicus isn't the only Roman

cookbook, and it would help to know the exact title of the original

recipe.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 01:36:49 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] peas vs. beans

 

Ranvaig commented:

<<< I checked the index of Apicus for "bean" and "torta" and don't see

anything like this.    The notes say that one word now associated

with beans, actually meant peas then.  >>>

 

So what determines whether something is considered a bean and when

it is considered a pea? Now and in period?

===================

 

I found a couple of modern answers:

 

Beans are of the genus Phaseolus.

Peas are of the genus Pisum.

 

peas have tendrils and beans do not

 

peas have a hollow stem and beans have a solid stem.

 

In general peas have slick vines and beans have hairy vines that enable

them to cling.

 

Bean is used for a lot of different

things and usually tagged by shape.

 

In period, it will depend on the language too.  Or are you only

asking about English?

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:05:00 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] peas vs. beans

 

Ranvaig commented:

<<< I checked the index of Apicus for "bean" and "torta" and don't see

anything like this.    The notes say that one word now associated

with beans, actually meant peas then.  >>>

 

So what determines whether something is considered a bean and when it  is

considered a pea? Now and in period?

 

 Stefan

============

 

I'm far removed from my references at the moment, but I would suggest taking

a look in Pliny's Natural Histories for a basic take on beans and peas in

Antiquity.  That being said, the terms "pea" and "bean" are not

scientifically precise and may through usage apply to various seeds that are

not taxonomically peas or beans.  The black-eyed pea, for example, is called

a pea in English, but is placed with beans in Italian, and being a member of

genus Vigna is truly neither a pea nor a bean but is related to both.

 

For differentiation in most of period, I believe you will find that most of

the peas available were of the sort that divide in two producing split peas,

while the beans retained their unity.

 

If you want to duck the entire issue, divide the collection of messages by

age and label them "legumes-1-msg", "legumes-2-msg", etc.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:09:22 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] peas vs. beans

 

<<< The black-eyed pea, for example, is called a pea in English, but is

placed with beans in Italian, and being a member of genus Vigna is

truly neither a pea nor a bean but is related to both. >>>

 

Old world Aduki and mung "beans" are also Vigna.

 

<<< For differentiation in most of period, I believe you will find that

most of the peas available were of the sort that divide in two

producing split peas, while the beans retained their unity. >>>

 

I'm not sure this is a valid distinction.  Split peas are the result

of a milling operation, but beans can be split too.  I'm not sure how

common it was to have peas milled in period

 

Rumpolt has numerous recipes for peas, all of them for unmilled peas,

because it tells you to remove the hull. Sometimes by soaking in lye

and washing the hulls off, some by cooking with the hull and pressing

through a sieve, leaving the hull behind.   I tried this once, and it

looked and tasted exactly like common split peas.

 

There is a bean recipe that tells you to remove the hull too.

Rumpolt's "Bonen" is likely black eyed peas.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:45:35 +0000

From: Gretchen Beck <cmupythia at cmu.edu>

To: "yaini0625 at yahoo.com" <yaini0625 at yahoo.com>, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Bean is a bean

 

<<< Are lima beans New World or Old?

Aelina >>>

 

New World, I believe. "Lima" in an agricultural product name was, at least in the 19th C, a reference to Lima, Peru.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:13:24 -0800

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Old World beans

 

Favas, black-eyed peas, lentils, garbanzos, and peas are all in the

Carolingian capitularies I'm working from. So is salt pork and chard and

kale and mustard greens... cooking without cookbooks isn't actually all

that hard...

 

Liutgard

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:34:20 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] soooooo...

 

On Feb 3, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Honour Horne-Jaruk wrote:

<<< Please list them! I joined in the days when "only Favas survive" was

Gospel. If that's wrong I _so_ want the names of the others! >>>

 

Maybe this entry will help:

http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/food/entries/display.php/topic_id/6/id/103/

 

mentions t he Mediterranean legumes are: carob or St. John?s bread  

(Ceratonia siliqua);  grasspea or India pea (Lathyrus sativus);  

chickpea (Cicer arietinum) ; and  lentils (Lens esculenta).

 

Then fava beans (Vicia faba), also known as the broad bean, Windsor  

bean, horse bean,

Scotch bean, and English bean.

 

The lupine bean (Lupinus albus);  bittervetch (Vicia ervilia) ; the  

cultivated pea (Pisum sativum); the field pea, used mostly for dried  

peas and forage, and the garden pea with its high sugar content.

from Africa, such as the hyacinth bean (Lablab niger),

and the cowpea (Vigna unguiculata), also known as the aspargus bean or  

yard-long bean, native to West Africa.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:42:49 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Old World beans (was: soooooo...)

 

From Leonard Fuchs Herbal of 1545:

 

White Horse Bean (Lupinus albus, white lupine) used in the Mediterranean

world and still cultivated in Georgia (US) until recently.

Common Bean  (Vicia faba, Faba vulgaris, fava bean, horse bean)

Large (or great) Pea  (Pisum sativa, Pismum maius) looks to be a garden pea

 

French (or foreign) Bean AKA Wild Bean (Smilax hortensis, possibly the Old

World phaseolus or the New World Phaseolus vulgaris)  what Fuchs says about

it can be found here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=qCGdBd4TaswC&;pg=PA619&lpg=PA619&dq=similax+hortensis&source=bl&ots=aUjhXu1Y51&sig=p9w16USBQNK5A7LvXkQROWQVqH8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MlssT4qYJIHK2AXS29iIDw&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=similax%20hortensis&f=false

 

The image can be found here:

http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical-old/fuchs/406-7.gif

 

And for fun, here is the Phaseolus entry from William turner's New Herball:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bc8Z6otwklgC&;pg=PA498&lpg=PA498&dq=similax+hortensis&source=bl&ots=ZJFnYfqN4s&sig=oLHxegbaPKOFEtMBtzUOYJaVvSI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W14sT_zCEqfg2wXgt5jvDg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=similax%20hortensis&f=false

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 11:37:57 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Old World beans (was: soooooo...)

 

What you are after are members of the species Lathyrus, Vigna and Vicia.

Probably all members of these genera have been used for human consumption,

but most were considered "famine foods" by the Middle Ages and consigned to

being ground cover and animal fodder, a purpose many still serve today.  I

am listing only those I can demonstrate have been used by humans

 

Grass pea (Lathyrus sativa, Lathyrus sphaericus)

Red pea (Lathyrus cicera)

Sea pea (Lathyrus japonica)

 

These are the vetchlings that have commonly used for human consumption, but

other members of the species have been consumed by humans.  You should be

careful with members of genus Lathyrus.  The seeds are toxic in quantity

causing symptoms that are referred to as lathyrism.

 

Bitter vetch  (Vicia ervilia) -- evidence of 12th Century use in European

famine

Common vetch (Vicia sativa)

Hairy vetch (Vicia villosa)

 

Fava beans are placed in the Vicia (Vicia faba) or are places in their own

genus, Faba (Faba sativa).  They are not the survivor of a class of bean but

are monotypic with cultivar differentiation based on the size of the bean.

Besides arguing over genus, the botanical taxonomists are trying to decide

if the group has varietals.

 

Black gram (Vigna mungo) -- probably Asian only in period

Adzuki bean (Vigna angularis) -- Asian only in period

Mung bean (Vigna radiata) -- Asian in period, East African after 10th

Century

Cowpea (Vigna unguiculata or V. unguiculata ssp. dekindtiana) -- the name is

used for the general group or the specific subspecies

Catjang (Vigna unguiculata ssp cylindrica) -- probably Asian in period

Black-eyed pea (Vigna unguiculata ssp unguiculata) -- the common European

member of the species

Yardlong bean (Vigna unguiculata ssp sesquipidalis) -- probably Asian in

period

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:51:22 -0400 (EDT)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Beans, was Delights From The Garden of

        Eden

 

David Friedman wrote:

<< In her translation of al-Warraq, she identifies one of the kinds of

beans mentioned as kidney beans, which according to other sources I have

seen are New World. So I am a little concerned that she may be too

willing to assume that knowledge of current practice can be projected

back to period practice. >>

 

I replied:

<<< Yeah, i've been meaning to write her about that. The original Arabic says, literally, "red beans", and, IIRC, elsewhere in the book she mentions adzuki beans, which like kidney beans are red and unlike kidney beans are Old World (i don't have the book with me at the moment, so i can't find the page #), so i wonder if she may have confused them. >>>

SNIP

 

So i looked through the glossary last night. I misremembered several things.

 

First, on page 798 Nasrallah discusses lubya, "beans". In the generic heading, she equate them to kidney beans (New World Phaseolus) and black-eyed peas (Old World Vigna). She mentions that the Arabic word "fasulya" was used in medieval times, although rarely. In modern times, phaseolus is the New World bean genus. This may be where some of her confusion comes. However, the genus Vigna, which is Old World, includes a large number of different beans, some of which were formerly included in the genus Phaseolus. And Nasrallah does go on to mention some of them.

 

When discussing "lubya bayda", p. 798, literally "white beans", Nasrallah equates them to haricot or kidney beans. Then she quotes another medieval Arabic author, Ibn Baytar, comparing these particular beans to kidneys and saying some may be tinged with black or red. It seems to me that these WHITE beans are not our modern red kidney beans, which Nasrallah does not make clear.

 

As far as my adzuki bean comment, i could not find them mentioned in the glossary of "Annals of the Caliphs' Kitchens". However, on p. 799 Nasrallah lists "lubya hamra", literally "red beans", and she says they are like Hindu red chori. Red chori ARE adzuki beans, although Nasrallah doesn't say so. These are, for a change, actually Old World beans.

 

Also on p. 799, she lists "lubya sawda", literally "black beans", which Nasrallah equates with turtle or black beans. Obviously the medieval bean was black, given its name. However, modern black turtle beans are Phaseolus, so what this was in Ibn Sayyar's time she does not make clear.

 

And to add to the problems she lists "lubya Yamaniyya", "Yemenite beans", which Nasrallah says are white soy beans. I am skeptical that they are soy, although at least soy are Old World. Again, there are many spp. of Vigna, so rather than soy these may be one of them.

 

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:48:05 -0400

From: "Jim and Andi Houston" <jimandandi at cox.net>

To: <lilinah at earthlink.net>, "'Cooks within the SCA'"

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Beans, was Delights From The Garden

        of Eden

 

Urtatim,

 

Lobia are cow peas, which are old-world... I'm pretty sure they're from

India. Wikipedia says they're originally from Africa. There are all-black

cow peas- I have grown them myself, they are immediate relatives of the

black-eyed pea. There's a wide variety of cow peas, I bet these are all Arab

varieties of cow peas.

 

Madhavi

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:51:41 -0400 (EDT)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Beans, was Delights From The Garden

        of Eden

 

Madhavi wrote:

<<< Lobia are cow peas, which are old-world... I'm pretty sure they're from

India. Wikipedia says they're originally from Africa. There are all-black

cow peas- I have grown them myself, they are immediate relatives of the

black-eyed pea. There's a wide variety of cow peas, I bet these are all Arab

varieties of cow peas. >>>

 

Cow peas are in the genus Vigna, species unguiculata, of which there are four chief varieties. However, Vigna includes around 2 dozen varieties of Old World beans, with and without black eyes :-) Many species of Vigna are known in India as "gram". Other species of Vigna are originally native to Africa.

 

Lubya is a somewhat generic Arabic word for beans, especially Old World beans and other pulses. Nasrallah lists quite a few varieties, most, but not all, Vigna species. Those she lists are not necessarily mentioned in Ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's compendium, but appear in other works. Other species of Vigna are not classified as "lubya" but have individual names, such as the Arabic "mast", which is the mung bean, known in India as green gram or moong dal, which is Vigna radiata. Confusingly, the Vigna mungo is not the mung bean, but urad dal, which has a black skin and is white inside.

 

As i mentioned, in her expansive glossary Nasrallah includes white beans (lubya bayda), black beans (lubya sawda), red beans (lubya hamra). The problem with what Nasrallah writes is that she does not seem to differentiate between Old World beans - such as black beans in genus Vigna - and New World beans - such as black turtle beans in genus Phaseolus, which she lists as equivalent to lubya sawda.

 

Just for fun, here is the list of beans / peas in genus Vigna published in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna

and this list is not all-inclusive(!!).

 

Vigna aconitifolia ? Moth Bean, Mat Bean, Turkish Gram

Vigna angularis ? Azuki Bean, Red Bean

Vigna caracalla ? Snail Bean, Corkscrew Vine, Snail Vine

Vigna debilis Fourc.

Vigna dinteri Harms

Vigna lanceolata ? Pencil Yam, merne arlatyeye (Arrernte)

-- Vigna lanceolata var. filiformis

-- Vigna lanceolata var. lanceolata

-- Vigna lanceolata var. latifolia

Vigna luteola

Vigna marina (Burm.f.) Merr. ? beach pea, mohihihi, nanea (Hawaiian)

Vigna maritima

Vigna mungo ? Urad Bean, Black Matpe Bean, Black Gram, White Lentil, "black lentil"

Vigna o-wahuensis Vogel ? Hawaii Wild Bean

Vigna parkeri

Vigna radiata ? Mung Bean, Green Gram, Golden Gram, Mash Bean, Green Soy

Vigna speciosa (Kunth) Verdc. ? Wondering Cowpea

Vigna subterranea ? Bambara Groundnut, Jugo Bean, njugumawe (Swahili)

Vigna trilobata (L.) Verdc. ? Jungle Mat Bean, African Gram, Three-lobe-leaved Cowpea

Vigna umbellata ? Ricebean, "red bean"

Vigna unguiculata ? Cowpea, Crowder Pea, Southern Pea, Southern Field Pea

-- Vigna unguiculata ssp. cylindrica ? Katjang

-- Vigna unguiculata ssp. dekindtiana ? Wild Cowpea, African Cowpea, Ethiopian Cowpea

-- Vigna unguiculata ssp. sesquipedalis ? Yardlong Bean, Long-podded Cowpea, Asparagus Bean, Snake Bean, Chinese Long Bean

-- Vigna unguiculata ssp. unguiculata ? Black-eyed Pea, Black-eyed Bean

Vigna vexillata (L.) A.Rich. ? Zombi Pea

-- Vigna vexillata var. angustifolia

-- Vigna vexillata var. youngiana

 

--- End List ---

 

On the other hand, i really really really enjoy reading / studying Nasrallah's glossary, despite its potential problems, since in it she draws information not just from Ibn Sayyar's compendium, but also from a wide range of other medieval writers in Arabic on agriculture, medicine, and trade, as well as cuisine; and many of these books are not available in English or other Western European languages.

 

I'm currently on a quest for the books that have been translated into French and Spanish, so i can read them. I studied Arabic for about half a year and will probably go back to study some more. I now own a copy of the 13th c. "Kanz al-fawa'id fi tanwi' al-mawa'id", in Arabic transcribed and annotated by David Waines and Manuela Marin, but the pages haven't been cut and i am shy to start slashing them open. Paulina B. Lewicka, in her book "Food and Foodways of Medieval Cairenes" which i'm currently reading, frequently refers to recipes in the Kanz, but it hasn't been translated. So once i get over my fear of biblio-abuse, i want to translate some recipes. There appear to be some very tasty cheese recipes in it...

 

More languages, more better!

 

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 00:26:59 -0400 (EDT)

From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Black-eyed peas recipes?

 

To a French speaker, all of these would be  haricots.

 

It's worth pointing out, I think, that the main words for beans used to be

fasiolus (phaseolus) and faba. The word haricoq - as students of French

medieval food will know - originally applied to a mutton dish:

 

"To make haricoq, take sheep bellies and brown them on the grill. When they are browned, cut up them into pieces, and put in a pot. Take peeled onions, and chop them up fine. Put in the pot with the meat. Take white ginger, cinnamon and  assorted spices, that is, clove and seed. Moisten with verjuice and add to the  pot. Salt to taste."

 

Note that there are no greens in this recipe, though the TLF says that the

dish was later made with string beans. The name apparently referred originally to something cut up:

 

". 1 d?verbal de l'anc. verbe harigoter ?  d?chiqueter, mettre en lambeaux

? (1176-81, CHR. DE TROYES, Chevalier  Lion, ?d.  M. Roques, 831), lequel

est prob. un d?r. en -oter* (cf.  tapoter) de  l'a. b. frq. *hari?n ?  g?cher

?, prononc? *harij?n (d'o?  l'all. verheeren ?  d?vaster, d?truire ?) et

entr? en Gallo-Romania sous la forme *harig?n.  Hericot est  peut-?tre d? ?

l'infl. d'?cot*  ? rameau ?lagu? imparfaitement, chicot d'arbuste ?, le

rapprochement de ces deux  mots s'expliquant sans doute par le fait que la viande du haricot de mouton est  d?coup?e en morceaux irr?guliers. "

 

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=2857712835;

 

But as a word for beans, it came along fairly late.

 

Faba is less complicated, vicia faba having been found often in  

archeological digs.

 

Jim Chevallier

 

 

Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:32:14 -0400 (EDT)

From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Phaseolus et al

 

Back in April we had a discussion of the various meanings of "bean" in period terminology. I was thinking at the time there must be images we could consult.

 

It turns out there are. Dalechamp's book on plants came out just as people

were becoming aware of the Americas and has a chapter on the European

version (in the Latin edition) and another on the various "foreign" versions (in the French edition):

 

Historia generalis plantarum...

By Jacques Dalechamps

472 Phasiolvs Lib IV: Cap. XLIX

 

http://books.google.com/books?jtp=472&;id=_NGRilRpGGIC#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Histoire generale des plantes , contenant XVIII. livres egalement  departis

en deux tomes : tir?e de l'exemplaire latin de la bibliotheque de Me  

Jacques Dalechamp, puis faite fran?oise par Me Jean des Moulins ... avec un  

indice ... ensemble les tables des noms en diverses langues. Derniere edition,  

reveu?, corrig?e, & augment?e ... & illustr?e...

Auteur : Dalechamps,  Jacques (1513-1588)

735 Phasiol d'Indie, du Bresil, etc.

 

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5408308s/f858.image.r=feve.langEN

 

The one  glitch is that I cannot make out any edible-sized seeds in the

European variety.  But maybe someone else can do better.

 

Oh, and if you download Google's version, be warned that it has a quirk -  

the scanned pages themselves are a reasonable size, but for some reason they

have been scanned onto an ENORMOUS background.

 

Jim Chevallier

(http://www.chezjim.com/) www.chezjim.com

 

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