beans-msg - 6/9/00
Medieval beans. Fava beans. Garbanzo beans. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: peas-msg, vegetables-msg, vegetarian-msg, salads-msg,
seeds-msg, soup-msg, grains-msg, bread-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that
I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: Lord Stefan li Rous
mark.s.harris@motorola.com stefan@florilegium.org
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From Jeff.Peck@hubert.rain.comMon Feb 26 12:21:04 1996
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 01:23:00 -0800
From: Jeff Peck <Jeff.Peck@hubert.rain.com>
To: antir@mail.orst.edu
Subject: Re: Hummos recipe<musical fruit>
I have found in the past that if you use dried beans , and soak
overnight in water with 1tbs of baking soda (rinse before cooking)
it takes away a LARGE portion of the gassiness .
Lyulf
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:06:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Catherine deSteele <desteele@netcom.com>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Beans are period...sort of.
Based on our research, there were a couple of period beans - fava
beans, which were known in Roman times and are still eaten in the
Meditteranean today. The other period bean was a now-extinct version of
the broad bean - you can substitute the Italian broad bean for it. Be
careful serving fava beans - some people have adverse reactions to it.
They also consumed the pods of fenugreek, known in period as "greek hay",
and still used extensively in Meditteranean and Afghani cooking today.
Vewgetarianism in the Middle Ages was a risky practice - few beans or
legumes, no corn, so options for protein were seriously limited - mainly
nuts, eggs, and dairy products. With lack of refrigeration, not a good
lifestyle choice...then.
Catherine deSteele
From: nweders@mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:29:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mediterranean Feast
I grew them as a project this year to see how they would do in our somewhat
warm and humid climate (Central Ansteorra) but got them into the ground
late for a heavy crop. They are still producing so I will have a small but
hearty seed crop for next year, since I started with just a few. There is
not as much information on growing them as regular dry beans or green
beans. Most of what I found were British publications. They are a very
pretty plant -- the flowers are white and purplish black. I have a couple
of catalogs at home that sell seeds if you want to try them. Taste wise
the dry beans have a floury texture, I like. There are several Roman
recipes featuring favas that are very good so you might check them out.
You can get fava beans at health food stores as well as specialty
and eastern markets.
Clare St. John
From: Uduido@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:21:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Fava Beans
In a message dated 97-06-03 19:17:19 EDT, you write:
<< They are a very
pretty plant -- the flowers are white and purplish black. I have a couple
of catalogs at home that sell seeds if you want to try them. Taste wise
the dry beans have a floury texture, I like. There are several Roman
recipes featuring favas that are very good so you might check them out.
You can get fava beans at health food stores as well as specialty
and eastern markets. >>
Fava beans are quite similar to lima beans in taste and texture only somewhat
stronger. I would coution those of Mediterranean descent to be careful if you
have not eaten these before. People of Mediterranean descent can have
allergic reactions to these beans. It is not deadly but is extremely
unpleasant. People of non-mediterranean descent are not known to have this
reaction.
Lord Ras
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes
At 2:59 PM -0500 6/6/97, Peters, Rise J. wrote:
>What other sorts of beans were available in Europe? (I don't guess I could
>possibly be lucky enough that pinto beans were .... or any kind of "brown
>beans"?)
Fava beans, garbanzos, lentils. I don't think any of our standard
beans--pinto, lima, kidney, etc.--are old world.
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes
>There is a good recipe out of 700 Years of English Cooking. Since I don't
>have it here and you need it now, I'll summarize and you can experiment if
>you want to. Its Fried Beans and Onions. Saute onions in oil, add kidney
>beans, ginger, cinnamon and another sweet spice. Heat. The onions, beans
>and sweet spices make a tastey mix and the dish is good hot or cold.
1. Kidney beans are from the new world.
2. I don't know 700 years of English Cooking well enough to identify the
recipe, but here are some somewhat similar things; the last of the three is
the closest to what you describe. All three recipes are from the
_Miscellany_, available online.
Makke
Form of Cury p. 41/A21
Take drawn beans and sethe them well. Take them up of the water and cast
them in a mortar. Grind them all to doust till they be white as any milk,
chawf a little red wine, cast thereamong in the grinding, do thereto salt,
leshe it in dishes, then take onions and mince them small and sethe them in
oil till they be all brown. And flourish the dish therewith. And serve it
forth.
1 cup pea beans, dry 2 large onions
1/2 c red wine enough oil to fry the onions
1 t salt
Soak the beans overnight then simmer 4-6 hours until tender. Chop up the
onions fairly fine. Drain the beans, use a food processor to puree. Heat
the wine and add it. Put the beans in each dish, put the fried onions over
them. Broad beans (fava beans) would be more authentic than pea beans, but
we have not yet tried them in this recipe.
- ------
Fried Broad Beans
Platina p. 115 (book 7)
Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan with
soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry them well
rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface, spread this into
the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it.
1 c dried fava beans 2/3 c figs (cut in pot herbs: 1 1/2 c
spinach, packed
6-8 T lard about 8 pieces) 1 1/2 c parsley, packed
1/2 c+ onions 1/2 t sage 1 1/2 c mustard greens, packed
1/2 t salt 1 1/2 c turnip greens
Spices for sprinkling on top: 1/4 t ginger, 1/2 t cinnamon, 1/4 t pepper
Bring beans to a boil in 2 1/2 c water, leave to soak about 1/2 hour, then
simmer another hour, until soft. Drain the beans, mix the whole mess
together and fry it in the lard for 10 minutes, then serve it forth with
spices sprinkled on it. This is also good with substantially less greens.
- ------
Benes yfryed
Curye on Inglysch p. 141 (Forme of Cury no. 189)
Take benes and seeth hem almost til they bersten. Take and wryng out the
water clene. Do =DDerto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec therwith; frye
hem in oile o=DDer in grece, & do =DDerto powdour douce, & serue it forth.
2 15 oz cans fava beans 3 T olive oil
1 small onion chopped poudre douce (2 t sugar, 3/8 t cinnamon, 3/8 t ginger)
3 cloves garlic (1 oz), smashed & minced
Drain and wash the beans well, draining thoroughly. Chop onions, crush and
mince garlic. Simmer onions and garlic in 1/2 c water for 3 minutes,
drain. Heat the frying pan with oil on a medium heat, add onions and garlic
and beans (will splatter--be careful), cook, stirring frequently, 10
minutes. Then add pouder douce, mix well, cook 2 more minutes, and serve.
Remember to keep stirring.
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
From: Uduido@aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:33:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes
<< What is a pea bean? >>
Acording to my currently limited resources pea beans are navy beans. It also
says "have been grown in Europe and elsewhere since the discovery of
America.". I would suspect that these were one of the 1st beans introduced to
Europe after America's dicovery although I do not have verification of that
hypothesis.
Lord Ras (Uduido@aol.com)
From: zarlor@acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:26:52 GMT
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 2:59 PM -0500, Peters, Rise J wrote:
>What other sorts of beans were available in Europe? (I don't guess I could
>possibly be lucky enough that pinto beans were .... or any kind of "brown
>beans"?)
I believe it has already been mentioned that the beans known to have
existed throughout most of out studied time period are fava, garbanzo
and lentils. In the 16th century there are a few more that were added
by import from the New World, so you'll have to decide when and where
your recipe is used from.
he best source I have on what was available in beans is (again)
Castelvetro's "The Fruit, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy". Here he
lists Broad Beans (or Fava/Faba), Turkish beans (these are not from
Turkey, but Castelvetro terms them such to mean they are "foreign",
mainly New World in origin) which are described as "white or flecked
with pink and tan." They also "grow very tall" and " have [a]...lovely
green foliage". The translator, Gillian Riley, proclaims in he
glossary that these are Runner Beans, which we also call French
Beans".
He also lists another kind of bean, unnamed, that are "smaller, white
or faintly pinkish with a black spot in the middle." Kind of like a
black-eyed pea, apparently. Then he lists Dwarf Beans, which are he
states are native or domestic to Italy and are sown in large
quantities in wheat-fields after the harvest. "They do not grow high"
and he states they eat "the cooked tender green pods as a salad, and
do the same with the shelled fresh beans."
Chickpeas are mentioned and are mentioned as being seen in white and
red forms, the red being considered the better variety. Lentils are
also mentioned and he proclaims them as "one of the most, if not the
most, unhealthy vegetables one can eat, except for the broth, which,
they say, is a miraculous drink for children with smallpox. In general
lentils are only eaten by the lowest of the low." Those Italians sure
have a way with words, eh? ;-)
As a side note he also mentions peas (no further explanation as to any
particular kind or description of pea) and the Grass Pea, or vetch,
which, he says, tastes rather like Chickpeas. He dos state of theses
that "they are considered a rather common food, for they generate
wind, bad blood and considerable melancholy." Gillian Riley notes of
Grass peas that the "grew wild in Italy and were eaten a lot by the
Romans, but have fallen out of use, which is just as well, as they are
poisonous, even after a preliminary roasting, which is no doubt why
they were said to generate 'wind, bad blood and considerable
melancholy'."
Also of note is that Castelvetro discusses Lupin beans, but I do not
know if this is an actual bean or not. He mainly talks about
sweetening the bean by putting it in clear running water for 2 or 3
days. They are then "peeled and salted and nibbled more as a snack
than anything else, the sort of thing that appeals to pregnant women
or silly children. Dried lupins are used to fatten pigs and other
animals." Gillian Riley states these have been grown in Italy and the
Middle East since the times of the Romans.
So runner beans could probably be used, at least after the mid-late
16th Century. I'm not sure what the black-eyed pea looking bean is. It
could be a black-eyed pea, for all I know. (Not like I have this great
horticultural knowledge, or anything. I know diddley about such
things).
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor@acm.org
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101@afn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Green Beans
On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Terry Nutter wrote:
> Hi, Katerine here. Ceridwen quotes John Gerard on kidney beans. Sounds
> interesting! I haven't tripped over any references to them in 13th to 15th
> Century cuisine, but maybe I'm looking too early. Can you tell us what his
> dates are?
>
> -- Katerine/Terry
Hi Katerine,
Geradrd's Herbal was first published in 1597, late for us but still
within the realm of Renaissance cookery , by my standards anyway. I have the
facsimile edition published by Dover, and have spent hours trying to figure
out some of his sources and see if I can get any time frame as to the
import or common use of the plants he describes. Those from the New World he
usually specifies when and where they came from, but not always. There is an
introductory chapter in which he describes many Herbals preceding this one,
by date and author, but no indication if he quotes from these.
I won't be so bold as to hold up this book as documentation for
anything before the lifetime of Gerard,whose book was based on the Dodoens
herbal of 1583, and was updated and revised by Thomas Johnson in 1633. I do
not have to hand any horticultural encyclopedia which would tell me
definitively whether the beans he refers to were actually favas, or kidney,
or some other .
I have seen mention in Le Menagier and a couple others of preparing
beans in their "cods", though and deduce from that , that the people of the
Late Middle Ages ate beans fresh from the plant at times, and not always
ripe or dried. Though this does not allow me to assume those beans are the
same as our "green beans", they may have been similar.
My gardening experience and the seed catalogs I recieve lead me to
believe that even what we know as "heirloom" vegetables, (open-pollinated,
old varieties) cannot be traced back more than 75-100 years. Our modern
varieties have been bred for tenderness, appearance, selective harvest
times, tolerance to adverse weather, resistance to disease and insects, etc.
For a definate answer I suppose we would have to look to archaeology, or
plant historians.
OOHHH!... Just looked in "medieval English Gardens" In a treatise on
necessities for the country man, he says that one needs a small table on
which to mince or cut up vegetables, including beans in the pod! (12th
c)along with shelled beans, cabbage, leeks, onoins,lentils, peas, and
millet. (Neckham) Hmmmmmmmm......
Comments, anyone?
Ceridwen
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:33:47 -0500
From: gfrose@cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - Another Novice Recipe Challenge
Hi, Katerine here.
Ah yes, beans. I've read lots of such recipes, but never made them. Here's
what I'd try first out.
>From the Forme of Cury, recipe # 189:
>"Benes yfryed. Take benes and see6 hem almost til 6ey bersten. Take and
>wryng out 6e water clene. Do 6erto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec
>6erwith; frye hem in oile o6er in grece, & do 6erto powder douce, &
>serue it forth."
My rendering into modern English:
Fried Beans. Take beans and boil them until they are near bursting.
Press out the water. Add boiled minced onions and garlic. Fry them
in oil or grease, and add powder douce, and serve.
Notes:
"Beans" almost certainly mean dried favas. Onions are always boiled
before using (at least parboiled) in medieval recipes, though why I
couldn't tell you. It's not clear how the garlic is treated, but I
don't know of any other recipes that don't either grind or mince it.
Nobody knows for certain what precise spices went into powder douce, so
I just pick favorite sweet ones. Nobody knows for sure whether it
included sugar; it may have varied.
Things that were boiled weren't necessarily boiled in water, and boiling
the beans in broth might add flavor; but the recipe specifies to wring
out *the water*, so I would be disinclined to do that in this case, even
if I didn't like my first version.
There's good reason to believe that salt was sometimes taken for granted,
and we usually salt beans. But one can salt at the table, so at least
the first time out, I'd make this without and see what I got.
Here's what I'd try first.
Take a couple of cups of favas; rinse, then put in a pot with water to
cover and a little more. Bring to a boil, reduce heat, and simmer until
they are very soft. Empty into a collander and press out as much water
as I can without mushing the beans through.
Take two onions. Mince and boil, then strain out and add to beans.
Take two cloves of garlic. Whack with a knife to smash and remove outer
cover, then mince.
Put a little olive oil in a pan. Add garlic as it heats. When it's hot,
stir in beans and onions. (I could more accurately have stirred the
garlic in with the beans and onions, but I'm not sure I want to fry
this stuff long enough to be certain that the garlic all gets cooked.
Saute briefly, turning from time to time.
Remove to serving plate.
Mix up some powder douce (for this, I'd try a tsp each sugar and cinnamon,
half a tsp ginger, and a quarter tsp each mace and cloves), and sprinkle
over.
Now find out if it's food.
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:01:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101@afn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Green Beans
Greetings All from Ceridwen
First I'd like to tell you all how much I have enjoyed this past
week's postings! The challenges, whether they be simple or complex, have
something for all of us! They have been wonderful!!!!.
Comment on the Green Bean thing... John Gerard mentions 11 different
types of "Kidney Beans", with different characteristics of growing and
flowering, Friuting, etc. He says that 9 of those are common in English
gardens and are eaten both shelled (ripe) and " the friut and cods of Kidney
Beans boiled together before they be ripe, and buttered, and so eaten with
their cods, are exceeding delicate meat, and do not engender winde as the
other Pulses do" In the next paragraph, he goes on to describe the
praparation of the unripe beans, including de-stringing them after being
parboiled.
As for the Botanical evidence, I'm not entirely sure when and by
whom Latin classification was standardized, but Gerard names those beansas
follows;
1. Phaseolus Albus - Garden or White kidney bean
2. Phaseolus Niger - Black Kidney bean
3. Smilax hortensus rubra - Red Kidney bean
4. Smilax hortensus flava - Pale yellow Kidney Bean
5. Phaseolus peregrinus fructu minore alba - Indian Kidney Bean with
a small white fruit
6.Phaseolus peregrinus fructa minore frutescens - Indian Kidney Bean
with a small red fruit
7. Phaseolus prergrinus augustifolius - Narrow leafed Kidnay bean
(with a small red fruit)
8.Phaseolus Brasilianus - Kidney Bean of Brazil
9. Phaseolus Egyptanicus - Parti-coloured bean of Egypt.
As an aside, he says that there is a bean called the "scarlet bean" which is
grown in a garden he knows of, that the pods have little hairs on them that
sting like nettles, possibly from the East Indies, but not eaten.
He also discusses Lupines (boiles till the bitterness is gone, and
eaten with pickle), peas and lentils, garden beans (fava major hortensis)
and black beans (not eaten)
Anyone care to take a stab at comparing Gerard's beans to ours,
horticulturally or otherwise?
Ceridwen
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 13:11:49 -0400
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <ceridwen@commnections.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet
Yep, I have Gerard's... and we did discuss this a few months back, but
anyway, here goes.
Gerard states that there are 9 kinds of "kidney bean" known to him (and
quotes from other sources as well). These include some from India,
Egypt, and Brazil, as well as those grown in earlier times in the
Mediterranean. His illustrations resemble our lima bean far more than a
kidney bean, being flat ovals, and the pods are flat also with a
distinct string along the straight side. He says they come in several
colors, white, black, red, purple, and orange. The plants and flowers
resemble our lima bean much more than a string or shell bean, having
narrow leaves well apart on the stalks.
Among the other legumes, he has lentils(2 kinds) garden peas (6 kinds)
several edible vetches, and the "garden bean" or fava, with 3 kinds
being known (white, yellow, and black)- the black being grown
ornamentally only, not eaten.
There are no references to what we have now... string beans, although
he says that the favas and "kidney" beans may be cooked immature, in
their pods, and dressed with vinegar and salt as a "daintie meat"
Ceridwen
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 13:43:54 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet
Favas can be either fresh, dried, or canned. I've never seen them
frozen, so far as I know. Mature favas have a fairly tough husk on them.
This is not the seed pod or shell itself, which gets opened to get at
the bean. This is what I believe is termed the cotyledon of the bean. In
any case, if you take some fava beans out of the shell, and cook them,
you may find that they have an unpleasantly tough outer layer, which
makes them a little difficult to deal with if the beans are to be left
even semi-whole. Even fresh favas have this husk on them, except in the
case of really tiny baby ones, where it isn't as tough, and can be
eaten.
If all you can find is dried whole favas, I'll say I have had good
results with boiling them like any other large beans, and then pushing
them through a strainer to separate the pulp from the husks. A Foley or
Mouli food mill, which is really just a colander with a sort of crank
propeller, is also excllent for this. If you want to preserve their
shape, though, you'll need to do this by hand, individually.
Middle Eastern markets are a good place to get split, dried favas, which
are more or less like split peas, and about as easy to work with.
Then, of course, there's the medieval European approach, which is to
make canebyns. These are a preparation of dry favas which consists of
soaking them until they begin to swell up and almost germinate, like
malt. They will split partway out of that leathery husk, and then it is
easier to remove. The beans are then cut into smaller pieces (remember
favas are sometimes an inch long) and toasted to help dry them.
I did a little experimentation to satisfy myself that there was no
enzymatic stuff going on, as the process did rather resemble malting.
I'm sure there was enzymatic stuff going on, but it doesn't seem to have
affected the beans in the short term, especially after cutting them up
and toasting them.
I suspect that the process for making canebyns may have been developed
as a way to make sure the beans were fully dried before they spoiled,
which may well have been an issue in the temperate but rather humid
climate found in some parts of England and France in period. Most of the
canebyn recipes I've seen are English, although I have seen, IIRC, one
or perhaps two that are French.
Speaking as one who has actually made these suckers, I'll say that while
the process works, and is fascinating, I'd just as soon buy split favas
at Charlie Sahadi's in Brooklyn.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:06:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet
Certainly there must have been beans of various kinds imported from
places like India and China to the Middle East, other than the chick
pea, the lentil, and the fava. The soy bean certainly was cultivated in
Asia very early in our period, and sooner. Other candidates are things
like mung beans (more or less a tiny variety of soybean) and several
varieties of chick pea that appear to have been more or less unknown to
most Europeans.
However, we don't really know that the kidney beans Gerard refers to,
are the String Bean Group from South America. Kidney bean is a perfectly
natural nomenclature based on shape, and it would be perfectly
acceptable to call even favas by that name.
As is often the case, the more you dig, the more confusing things
become...
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:19:37 -0400
From: Woeller D <angeliq1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans & Saffron
> >I'd just as soon buy split favas at Charlie Sahadi's in Brooklyn.
> >Adamantius
>
> Looking for favas in Middle Eastern markets had not occurred to me. My
> source for inexpensive favas (bulk dried foods in general) went out of
> business a couple of years ago. I can get whole favas at a local health
> food store (veddy hexpensife) and I can get split favas at a culinary
> store for about half the price of the health food joint. From your
> advice, I'll opt for the split favas if I can't find them any cheaper.
Bonjour;
Another note about favas- you can buy them already prepared in most
Arabic food stores (often listed as 'Halal Meat' stores)(in VA, at
least), from about $.75 per 15 oz can, and up. I like the 20 oz can,
brand 'Sahadi' that I buy for $1.29 (Yes, they are packed for the
Brooklyn Sahadi Company) They are listed as "Foul Mudammas"(pronounced
more like 'fool' than 'fowl'), rather than 'favas', in some stores, and
are very good. I'm sure most of you would rather cook them from
scratch, but buying a can to try them before I cook something new gives
me more of an idea what I'm shooting for, and I like to have some on
hand, ready right now.
Hope the info is helpful. Bon Chance
Angelique
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 00:35:22 -0800
From: "Melinda Shoop" <mediknit@nwinfo.net>
To: "SCA Arts" <SCA-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Beans in a Period Recipe
I am looking at recreating a recipe from Thomas Dawson's "The Good
Huswife's Jewell", published in London in 1596.
In a recipe titled, "To Defend Humors" the reader is instructed:
"Take beanes, the rinde or the upper skin being pulled of, & bruse them and
mingle them with the white of an Egge, and make it sticke to the Temples,
it keepeth backe humors flowing to the eyes."
I want to know what type of bean available to the shooper today would match
the bean spoken of in the recipe, or, if this is not available, what could
be used instead. Any other comments about this recipe, the humor theory,
or the role of the ingredients in the recipe would be welcome, if you are
familar with this work.
Thank you in advance for your help!
In Gratitude,
Lady Fiametta La Ghianda/Melinda Shoop
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:54:37 -0500 (EST)
From: DianaFiona@aol.com
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Beans in a Period Recipe
<<
I want to know what type of bean available to the shooper today would match
the bean spoken of in the recipe, or, if this is not available, what could
be used instead. Any other comments about this recipe, the humor theory,
or the role of the ingredients in the recipe would be welcome, if you are
familar with this work.
>>
Well the bean part is easy---they were using fava beans. These are one
of the few old-world bean varieties, along with lentils and garbanzos
(chickpeas), plus the peas that our modern green peas decended from. Favas
look rather like limas, and tend to have a rather thick, tough skin that
fastidious cooks will often remove. It's not hard, just rather tedious---you
cook the beans lightly, cool them enough to handle, and squirt them out of
the skins. Then finish cooking and seasoning. This process is for the fresh
ones, if you can find them (Look in gourmet markets and stores that cater to
a Middle Eastern or Mediteranian community.), but with the dried ones the
pre-cooking soak will often loosen the skins enough to let you remove them.
That said, I rarely bother, since the skins don't usually offend my tastes.
The exception was some fresh ones that I helped prepare for a feast last
summer. The feastcrat had managed to find a source for frozen fresh favas,
that we used to make the Benes Yfryed from Forme of Cury (Boil the beans,
drain, fry with chopped onions and garlic, sprinkle with powder douce [sweet
spices]). But either the variety was particularly tough or the frying caused
the problem, but they were a bit much even for me. And microwaving the
leftovers I got to take home *really* didn't help............ ;-)
I can find several varieties of canned or dried favas in my local Indian
market, so I don't imagine they are *too* hard to get these days if you live
in a large enough place to have ethnic groceries. Now, if I can just manage
to get across town soon---I running low on several things from there! ;-)
Ldy Diana Fiona O'Shera
Vulpine Reach, Meridies
(Chattanooga, TN)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:36:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Lewis <telewis@comp.uark.edu>
To: SCA-ARTS list <sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip
I came across an interesting passage in a chronicle entitled
L'Estoire de la Guerre Sainte, printed in Edward Noble Stone, trans.,
Three Old French Chronicles of the Crusades (Seattle: University of
Washington, 1939). The chronicle details the campaign of King Richard in
Third Crusade. Describing a period of famine, the passage reads,
"Back he came and they ate beans, being well-nigh mad with
hunger . . . A certain thing was sold in the host of God which they called
carob-beans. These were sweet to the taste, and a man could get a mess of
them for one silver penny; and they were well worth the seeking. With
these and with little nuts were many folk kept alive. . ." (p.65)
A note in the text describes "carob-beans" as "Saint John's bread,
Ceratonia Siliqua." I don't have much experience in medieval cooking, but
perhaps this is what is referred to in medieval recipes calling for beans.
Lord Henry Percivale Kempe
Shire-March of Grimfells
Calontir
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:30:25 -0500 (EST)
From: <DianaFiona@aol.com>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip
<< A note in the text describes "carob-beans" as "Saint John's bread,
Ceratonia Siliqua." I don't have much experience in medieval cooking, but
perhaps this is what is referred to in medieval recipes calling for beans.
Lord Henry Percivale Kempe
>>
I wouldn't think it's likely--for one thing there are too many other
sources that discuss beans which tell us that they are the type we are more
familiar with. Specifically, the beans used in Europe before Columbus were
lentils, favas, and, at least to some extent, garbanzos (Chickpeas). This is
the first reference I've seen to carob being used by Europeans--thanks!
But another reason is that the carob "beans" grow on a large tree--it
*is* leguminous, I believe, rather like the honey locust tree around
here--that is too cold sensitive to grow in most of Europe, if I recall
correctly. I'd checked it out a bit when I ran across seeds or plants in one
of the more exotic seed catalogs I'd found, and was disapointed to find that
it wouldn't grow here. Too bad--carob tastes great, if you don't expect it to
be chocolate! ;-)
Ldy Diana
Vulpine Reach,Meridies
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:04:13 -0600
From: khkeeler <kkeeler@unlinfo.unl.edu>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip
DianaFiona@aol.com wrote:
> the first reference I've seen to carob being used by Europeans--thanks!
Carob is mentioned in the Dioscorides' herbal (AD 64 and the most
important medicinal herbal across all of Period)
Carob is "native to the Mediterranean region, ...its common name, St.
John's bread, is comes from the fact that it constituted the "locust" on
which John the Baptist fed. In ancient times carob seeds were used as
weights for small quantities of of precious substances such as gold
because they are extreemely uniform in size. Our modern unit the carat,
used for gold and jewels, is a reflection of this former use.
Traditionally carob pods were gathered from wild trees and the sweet
mesocarp pulp was choosed from the endocarp surrounding the seeds. The
seeds themselves have been used to make a coffeelike beverage." BB
Simpson and MC Ogorzaly Economic Botany 2nd ed 1995, p. 224.
This sounds like it wasn't a "bean", but Simpson and Ogorzaly isn't
focused on the Middle Ages the way we are so there may be more to the
story.
Agnes
Mag Mor, Calontir
kkeeler@unlinfo.unl.edu
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:56:11 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - green beans
<< why would you say green beans were one of the items quickly
and extensively used after discovery? >>
First, I would refer you to the posts from this list a while back when we
were having the great bean debate. ;-)
Secondly, we have a date, according to Toussaint-Samat of 1528, when seeds
were given to Canon Piero Valeriano by Pope Clement VII, who recieved tas a
gift from the New World.
The Canon planted the beans in pots and carefully noted germination rates,
growth patterns, etc. He commented speciffically on how productive they were.
Some of the resulting crop was used to prepare a dish which usually used
favas. The result was pronounced delicious and the beans were called fagioli.
The use of these beans swept throughout N. Italy,
At this time the Canon persuaded Catherine de Medici to include a bag of bean
seed in her dowry. The bean was loved by all and due to it's productivity was
only a fleeting "exotic" soon being grown all over Provence and other regions
where it ultimately (My Note: probably within 10 years) was known as "poor
man's food". Quote: "It's reputation as a cheap stomach filler guarenteed its
popularity".
IMHO, other sources and conjecture from eating habits support the supposition
supports the idea that green beans as opposed to dried beans per se were
eaten rather extensively because a handful of green beans is one serving.
Those same beans shelled as dry would amount to a mere taste. As researchers
into food history we, as moderns, must be ever vigilant to remember that
until recently in history man's society was agricultural. Thusly, the quick
dispersal of a food product that was prolific and good for eating in several
stages of growth would have been, and indeed was, quickly accomplished.
Ras
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:14:53 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - green beans
<< Pineapple, I can see. They are sweet which was craved. They are
unusual which makes them ideal for gardens of exotics.
Same goes for peppers and perhaps for Turkeys. They fill a percieved
need.
But green beans?>>
As noted in my previous post, the percieved need was filling bellies. The
planting of a single seed and harvest mutiple seeds only a few weeks later
would have assured it's place in the garden. With an average household
(including servants) of 20 mouths to feed this shouldn't be too hard to
grasp. :-)
To add to the green bean post> Jane Grigsom in her "Vegetable Book" (as does
Toussaint-Samat clearly staes that the word "haricot" as used by the English
meant dried beans while SAME word in France denoted "green beans".
Such a dual purpose food which had the advantage of looking very similar to
an already known product, favas, would not have had the problem of exceptance
that such foods as tomatoes or potatoes would have (and did).
In storage dried beans keep very well while dried favas loose their flavor
and become rather insipid. As green beans they could have been eaten
throughtout the growing season and yet would have provided a crop of seed for
next year.
Add the ability to be substituted for favas in any recipe and thereby
producing a far more palatable product, it is not at all surprising that it
rapidly gained acceptance. When climate is taken into account, the use of
dried beans by the English and green beans by the French is readily apparent
as it would have been easy for the French to produce two or even three crops
a year where England would have produced one.
<< Stefan li Rous >>
Ras
Subject Re: SC - green beans
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 18:03:24 MST
From: DUNHAM Patricia R <Patricia.R.DUNHAM@ci.eugene.or.us>
To: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60@msgphx1>, sca-cooks@Ansteorra.ORG
Having grown pole beans last summer and favas and Jacob's cattle beans
(one of the kinds you dry and make soup from) this summer...
The seeds you plant pole beans from look about a quarter the size, but
the same general bean-shape as a fava... (about 1.5 times the size of a
seed pea-- we also had regular peas and sugar pods, both years). I
don't think pole-bean seeds are sold for anything besides growing more
pole beans, to eat the flesh of, but that's a very casual opinion. The
seeds you would see in frozen or canned green beans would be of an
immature size. I think the kinds of beans you use for baked beans and
chili and so forth are not mature green-bean seeds, but types that are
grown specifically for the dried seeds, like the Jacob's cattle (an old
variety, name comes from they're brown and white speckled). (Yeah, I
got inspired by John Thorne's latest book; I MAY have enough for one
batch of baked beans 8-).)
To a casual observer (me), green beans and favas appear quite similar
when growing. We didn't stake the favas because we didn't understand
they'd try to grow to 6 feet! I think the leaves are generally similar
and the favas and pole beans both have climbing tendrils... the pole
beans' tendrils seem to be much sturdier and more active than the favas.
The fava pods are about twice the size of a green bean, same length,
but, well, --broader-- , and flatter rather than green-bean round...
they -look- like there'd be lima-shaped beans in them... And before the
fava pods mature and start to dry, they're green.
The foliage of the pole beans as I recall stay brighter green for
longer. The favas started to fade (paler and paler green) sooner,
didn't seem nearly as vibrant as the other two types. The real
difference is in harvesting... you pick the pole beans whole and eat
them out of hand clear thru the growing season 8-), or can or freeze or
whatever. The drying beans stay on the bush while the pod goes tan and
papery as it and the beans dry. (Then you pick and shell and winnow
the pod scraps out...) And the Fava pods dry BLACK and withered looking
around the beans... a very odd effect. And you sort of pry the pod off
in hard solid chunks.
So there's a lot of visual similarity between favas and green beans when
young and growing, and by the time you get the big harvest difference,
you've already eaten enough green beans to know a good thing!
Especially cause there is edible produce there from an early stage, on
the pole/green beans, which isn't available with the favas or
drying-beans (well, I didn't try either of those when they were little,
'cause I was pre-programmed to go for the storage end-product...)
Chimene
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:19:58 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - green beans
<< But do favas and green beans look alike? >>
No. They look similar. They are both legumes and have the basic
characteristics of all legumes. This includes but is not restricted to
flower structure, podded seeds, root nodules and, in the case of favas and
New World beans, SIMILAR l;eaf structure.. As noted in a previous post the
growing season is longer in New World types. Favas generally require cooler
growing temperatures and finish producing before hot weather sets in.
<<I thought favas were big, tan colored things similar to lima beans. In that
case, I don't think they look like or would be substituted for fava beans.
But I may not be right on what fava beans look like and will look for some.>>
You are right for the most part except you are forgetting that the fava is
surrounded by a darker colored sheath which is usually removed. The resulting
bean is SIMILAR in shape to N.W. beans, that is more or less kidney shaped.
Cooking times and techniques are almost identical for dried beans of both
families and mouth feel and texture are almost identical
<<The only green beans I know have seeds a bit smaller than green peas and
are encased in a little green sack or tube, fresh, canned or frozen. >>
There are many varieties of beans> Red kidney beans, Great Northeren, Lima,
Black beans, white kidney beans and my absolute favorite "horticultural"
beans which are white with burgundy markings, just to name a few. All of
these varieties vary in size and to a lesser extent shape. All can be
consumed in the green, immature state pod and all. All can be grown until
mature and used as a dried bean. Most are definitely NOT smaller than peas
with the notible exception of black eyed peas, black beans and the miniature
form of Great Northern (a name I can't recall) which is used in the Current
Middle Ages for the making of real Boston Baked Beans. And, yes, the beans
you are to that come in a "small" green tube including the tube is
collectively called a "green bean". The tiny seeds you notice are embryonic
forms of what would have matured into the familiar dry bean you are familiar
with.
<<If this is the immature seed, are the more mature seeds sold today? Perhaps
under a different name?>>
Generally, yes. See the above varities mentioned. For the most part, whether
beans are grown for eating when immature and encased in green tube-like
structures or whether they will be allowed to mature into seeds and shelled
out is a decision of the gardener depending on whether food needs are
immediate or not.
Ras
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:24:50 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Hummus and falafel
At 9:32 AM -0600 3/12/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
>I took note of a comment in an earlier message that there is no period
>documentation for hummus.
>
>I am considered serving hummus and falafel as vegetable dishes in a future
>feast. I would appreciate any input about the history of these two dishes.
>
>Bear
"Hummus" means "chickpeas," and is a period ingredient. Hummus bi Tahini is
the familiar chickpea dip, and I have not found it in any period cookbook.
Sesame seeds are common in period Islamic cooking, but I don't think I have
seen anything that looks like tahini.
There are, however, period dips, or things that work as dips, of which my
favorite (also vegetarian) is badinjan muhassa; the recipe is in the
(webbed) _Miscellany_.
Is falafel made from chickpea flour? If so, you might want to consider
"counterfeit Isfiriya of Garbanzos" in _Manuscrito Anonimo_ as the closest
period equivalent, and try working on that instead. The recipe is:
Counterfeit (Vegetarian) IsfÓriy’ of Garbanzos
Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And
take some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and some
egg, and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in thin
cakes, and make a sauce for them.
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:32:47 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Hummus and falafel
At 3:45 PM -0600 3/12/98, jeffrey stewart heilveil wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, david friedman wrote:
>
>> Counterfeit (Vegetarian) Isf²riyí of Garbanzos
>>
>> Pound some garbanzos, take out the skins and grind them into flour. And
>> take some of the flour and put into a bowl with a bit of sourdough and
some
>> egg, and beat with spices until it's all mixed. Fry it as before in thin
>> cakes, and make a sauce for them.
>>
>> David/Cariadoc
>> http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
>
>Cariadoc,
>I was wondering what spices might have been used at the time, as this does
>not sound far from what I generally use to make falafel.
- ---
This is the recipe used by Sayyid Abu al-Hasan and others in Morocco, and
they called it isfÓriy’. Take red lamb, pound it vigorously and season it
with some murri naqÓ', vinegar, oil, pounded garlic, pepper, saffron,
cumin, coriander, lavender, cinnamon, ginger, cloves, chopped lard, and
meat with all the gristle removed and pounded and divided, and enough egg
to envelop the whole.
- ---
A Recipe of IsfÓriy’
Take some red meat and pound as before. Put it in some water and add some
sour dough dissolved with as much egg as the meat will take, and salt,
pepper, saffron, cumin, and coriander seed, and knead it all together. Then
put a pan with fresh oil on the fire, and when the oil has boiled, add a
spoon of isfÓriya and pour it in the frying pan carefully so that it forms
thin cakes. Then make a sauce for it.
Simple IsfÓriy’
Break however many eggs you like into a big plate and add some sourdough,
dissolved with a commensurate number of eggs, and also pepper, coriander,
saffron, cumin, and cinnamon. Beat it all together, then put it in a frying
pan with oil over a moderate fire and make thin cakes out of it, as before.
- --
The last two appear just before the counterfeit isfiriya recipe. So it
looks as though pepper, coriander, saffron, cumin, plus maybe cinnamon,
lavender, ginger, cloves, garlic and murri, would be the appropriate
spicing.
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:55:31 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - European Grain/Legume combo?
At 12:56 PM -0800 3/28/98, Konstanza von Brunnenburg wrote:
>
>I am searching for any documented European dish that combined a grain (i.e.
>cereal grass) product with a legume (e.g. beans, peas) product -- the
>trusty vegetarian "complete protein" combo. So far I've only found this in
>a couple of Arabic recipes -- Caradoc's translations of "Khichri" and
>"Counterfeit (Vegetarian) IsfÓ riy’ of Garbanzos". I'd like to try
>substituting a grain/legume combo for meat in appropriate European recipes,
>and it would be great to be able to somehow *document* that a grain/legume
>combination was at least actually used in Period in (for example) England
>or Germany. (Extra points for grain/legume documented as a Lenten
>substitute!)
>
As far as I can tell, they did not substitute grain/legume combinations for
meat in order to do meatless meals. Fish is the usual substitute--which
probably isn't much help to you. They did have pea and bean dishes, but
they aren't versions of meat dishes. Note also that bread would have been
served with every meal--so you are getting a grain along with whatever else
is part of the meal. Here are some bean dishes (original only; references
below). The funny letter is meant to be a thorn: single letter for th.
Longe Wortes de Pesone
Two Fifteenth Century p. 89
Take grene pesyn, and wassh hem clene, And cast hem in a potte, and boyle
hem til they breke; and then take hem vppe fro the fire, and putte hem in
the broth in an other vessell; And lete hem kele; And drawe hem thorgh a
Streynour into a faire potte. And then take oynones in ij. or iij. peces;
And take hole wortes, and boyle hem in fayre water; And then take hem vppe,
And ley hem on the faire borde, And kutte hem in .iij. or in .iiij. peces;
And caste hem and the oynons into Üat potte with the drawen pesen, and late
hem boile togidre til they be all tendur, And then take faire oile and
fray, or elles fressh broth of some maner fissh, (if Üou maist, oyle a
quantite), And caste thereto saffron, and salt a quantite. And lete hem
boyle wel togidre til they ben ynogh; and stere hem well euermore, And
serue hem forthe.
Fried Broad Beans
Platina p. 115 (book 7)
Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan with
soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry them well
rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface, spread this into
the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it.
Benes yfryed
Curye on Inglysch p. 141 (Forme of Cury no. 189)
Take benes and seeÜ hem almost til Üey bersten. Take and wryng out the
water clene. Do Üerto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec Üerwith; frye
hem in oile oÜer in grece, & do Üerto powdour douce, & serue it forth.
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (1430-1450), Thomas Austin Ed., Early
English Text Society, Oxford University Press, 1964.
Platina, De Honesta Voluptate, Venice, L. De Aguila, 1475. Translated by E.
B. Andrews, Mallinkrodt 1967. (Both Platina and Kenelm Digby were published
as part of the "Mallinkrodt Collection of Food Classics." Reprinted by
Falconwood Press, 1989.) Page numbers given herein are from the Falconwood
edition.
Curye on Inglysch: English Culinary Manuscripts of the Fourteenth Century
(Including the Forme of Cury), edited by Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon
Butler, published for the Early English Text Society by the Oxford
University Press, 1985.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:36:47 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss@gte.net>
Subject: SC - SC-reconstructions of medieval grain and legume dishes
Hi all from Anne-Marie
as promised, here's my reconstructions for medieval dishes that can be used
to combine grains and legumes. As Cariadoc has pointed out, this is not a
medieval concept, but these are reconstructions of medieval dishes, so I
guess its better than sneaking in your Veggie burger cuz there's nothing
else to eat.
Once again, formatting didn't transfer over well, and so if you need
citations, etc, let me know. And, of course, as always, if you choose to
use my recipes, that's great, just let me know and please cite me
appropriately.
Thanks, and enjoy!
- --AM
<snip of pea recipes. See the file peas-msg>
BENES YFRYED from Forme of Curye.
189 Benes yfryed. Take benes and Seeth hem almost til they bersten. Take
and wryng out the water clene. Do thereto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and
garlec therwith; frye hem in oile other in grece, and do therto powdour
douce, and serve it forth.
8T butter
2 large onions, chopped
4 cloves garlic.
Caramelize. Divide into two.
27 oz can Fava beans or 2x15oz cans garbanzos. Drain and rinse.
Fry the benes in 2T melted, bubbling hot butter or olive oil over medium
hi heat until crunchy looking, about 10 minutes. Sprinkle with * tsp.
poudre douce.
Reconstruction notes: YUM!!!! Fava way tastier than garbanzos. Definitely
need to serve hot. Way to go Celeste!
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:53:42 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Need recipe ?beans?
Niamh of Wyvern Cliffes gave a recipe for pinto bean pie and wrote:
>Okay so its OOP thought you might like to try it. It is actually
>surprisingly good.
>PINTO BEAN PIE:
>1/2 c hot mashed beans
>1/2 stick oleo
>1 1/2 c sugar
>2 whole eggs
>1 c coconut
>1 c pecans
>1 (9-inch) unbaked crust...
Well, the pinto beans, coconut, and pecans are OOP but the basic idea, as
it happens, is period.
To Make a Tarte of Beans
A Proper Newe Book of Cookery p. 37/C11 (16th c. English)
Take beanes and boyle them tender in fayre water, then take theym oute and
breake them in a morter and strayne them with the yolckes of foure egges,
curde made of mylke, then ceason it up with suger and halfe a dysche of
butter and a lytle synamon and bake it.
To make short paest for tarte
A Proper Newe Book p. 37/C10
Take fyne floure and a curscy of fayre water and a dysche of swete butter
and a lyttel saffron, and the yolkes of two egges and make it thynne and as
tender as ye maye.
1/2 lb (1 1/4 c) dry fava beans 1/2 c curds (cottage cheese) 6 T butter
4 egg yolks 4 T sugar 4 t cinnamon
Crust:
6 threads saffron crushed in 1 t cool water 5-6 T very soft butter
1 c flour 2 egg yolks
Put beans in 2 1/2 c of water, bring to boil and let sit, covered, 70
minutes. Add another cup of water, boil about 50 minutes, until soft. Drain
beans and mush in food processor. Cool bean paste so it won't cook the
yolks. Mix in yolks; add cottage cheese (do not drain); add sugar, butter
(soft or in small bits), and cinnamon and mush. Will be a thick liquid.
To make crust, mix saffron water into flour; add egg yolks and mix well
(will be crumbly). Add 4 T butter and mix well; add enough of remaining
butter to make a smooth paste. (Amount used depends upon softness of butter
and warmth of kitchen.) Roll smooth and place in 9" pie plate. Crimp edge.
Pour into raw crust and bake at 350ƒ for about 50 minutes (top cracks).
Cool before eating.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:17:58 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas@aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Wanted: recipes for Jacob's cattle beans
rsve60@email.sps.mot.com writes:
<< like the
Jacob's cattle (an old variety, name comes from they're brown and white
speckled). (Yeah, I got inspired by John Thorne's latest book; I MAY have
enough for one batch of baked beans 8-).)
>>
Jacob's Cattle beans are identical to "horticultural beans" which is what
they are. When cooked they loose the speckles and are all white. They can be
used in any bean recipe that calls for Great Northerns or Navy Beans. They are
New World. Hope this helps.
Ras
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:43:33 -0400
From: mermayde@juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)
Ok, here you go, a recipie and everything. This is from the book
"Feast-Day Cakes From Many Lands" by Dorothy Gladys Spicer
copyrite 1960, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY
'Fave die Morti (Beans of the Dead) - Italy
Fave dei Morti, beans of the dead, are the little bean-shaped
cakes that Italians eat on November 2, Il Giorno dei Morti, or All Soul's
Day. These small cakes, made of ground almonds and sugar combined with
egg, butter, flour, and subtle flavorings, are traditionally eaten
throughout Italy on the day that everyone decorates the graves with
flowers and says masses for departed souls.
<snip explaination of church decorations, graveside florals>
In spite of the somber beginning of Il Giorno dei Morti, the day
is far from gloomy. To young men in and about Rome, the Day of the Dead
is the proper time to send engagement rings to sweethearts. And to young
couples this 'festa' is the occasion to announce betrothals. Fave dei
Morti, sometimes white, or tinted delicate pink, or chocolate color, play
an important part in these rites. For the man sends the ring to his
fiancee in a conventional small square white box that is packed in an
oval container, full of the bean-shaped cakes.
<snip explaination of other holiday observances>
Fave dei Morti, beans of the dead, are rich and delicate little
cakes. Despite their macabre origin, you will want them often. Color
them orange and serve them at Halloween or Thanksgiving parties with ice
cream goblin or pumpkin molds. Or leave them white and store in tightly
closed tins, to serve with coffee or tea to unexpected guests.
FAVE DEI MORTI
1/2 cup sugar
3 tablespoons butter
1/2 cup finely ground almonds (unblanched)
1 egg
2 tablespoons all purpose flour
1 tablespoon grated lemon rind
Vegetable coloring, if desired
Combine sugar, butter, and ground almonds. Beat egg and add to other
ingredients, mixing thoroughly. Add flour and flavoring. Work dough
until smooth and make into a roll about 1 1/2 inches in diameter. Wrap
in waxed paper and refrigerate 2-3 hours. Then cut off bits of dough and
mold them into kidney-shaped pieces about as large as lima beans.
Bake on greased cookie sheet in moderate oven (350 degrees) about 15-20
minutes, or until golden brown. Cool 5 minutes before removing them from
pan with spatula. Yield: about 2 dozen small cakes. '
I would infer from the "Add flour and flavoring" line that you should add
whatever flavor you wish at this stage, such as cocoa powder, lemon, etc.
Hope this is what your autocrat had in mind!
Good Luck,
Mistress Christianna MacGrain
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:12:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 16-Jun-98 SC - Fave dei Morti
(Beans .. by C. Seelye-King@juno.com
> Ok, here you go, a recipie and everything. This is from the book
> "Feast-Day Cakes From Many Lands" by Dorothy Gladys Spicer
> copyrite 1960, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY
Looks like the name has transferred since 1614 -- in Castelvetti, Fava
del Morte is actually a sort of fava bean paste.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:52:05 -0400
From: "Robert Newmyer" <rnewmyer@epix.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Fave dei Morti (Beans of the Dead)
I found the following recipe thru a friend. Pretty basic but tasty. I have
no idea of the origin of this version but I thought a Fave de Morti recipe
that actually contains beans would be of interest.
Fava de Morti
(Fava Beans)
1 lb. broad beans, dried
5 large garlic cloves, mashed
2 bay leaves
salt
pepper
olive oil, extra virgin
Soak the beans in water overnight. Next morning drain and put in pot with
fresh water, the garlic, and the bay leaves, and simmer until tender. This
may take two to three hours, depending on the age of the beans. Add water,
if necessary, but aim for a thick rather than runny sauce at the end.
Season with salt, pepper, and plenty of really good olive oil. Serve with
lemon and parsley. This dish is good tepid or at room temperature, and is
even better the next day.
from "Painters & Food - Renaissance Recipes" by Gillian Riley
Griffith Allt y Genlli
Bob Newmyer
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:17:44 EDT
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: SC - Fava alert
In a message dated 6/18/98 2:41:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, allilyn@juno.com
writes:
<< Does that mean the dried seeds inside the fava case, or does it mean food
processing cooked fava beans, as we usually eat them--green? >>
I know that I have said this before but people of European descent can have
severe allergic reactions to fava beans. Please be cautious if you are of
European descent, espicially Mediterranean ancestry. The offending part of
trhe bean is the gelatinous stuff between the pod and the bean in green fava
beans for the most part.
Ras
Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 16:54:25 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG>
> Okay Bear, it's renaissence...but heres what you requested...Reference
> for your beans: fourteenth century.
>
> 154. D'autres menuz potaiges...: Other Lesser Pottages, such as stewed
> chard, cabbage, turnip greens, leeks, veal in Yellow Sauce, and plain
> shallot pottage, peas, frenched beans, mashed beans, sieved beans or
> beans in their shell, pork offal, brewet of pork tripe -- women are
> experts with these and anyone knows how to do them; as for tripe, which
> I have not put in my recipe book, it is common knowledge how it is to be
> eaten.
>
> The Viandier of Taillevent
>
> Rayah
Thank you for the information. I don't have the Viander in my library, but
I will probably add it. The reference is almost certainly to favas and I
have never come across it. Wonder if his unstated recipe for tripe is
similar to modern menudo?
Bear
Subject: Re: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 12:03:17 MST
From: peerage1 <peerage1@flash.net>
To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG
More windy talk *grin*
> Phaseolus vulgaris, the New World string bean.
Yes and no, that particular name that covers a very broad
category...please go and read this site:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/rhodcv/hort410/peas/pe00003.htm
and
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/Indices/index_ab.html
> To my knowledge, there is no record of these having been consumed in
>Europe within the SCA period.
In answer to that from that site:
The four major cultivated species of Phaseolus bean all originated in
central and S. America. Ancient seeds of cultivated forms
have been found in Peru (dated to 6000 BC) and Mexico (dated to 4000
BC). Bean cultivation spread into N. America; finds
in New Mexico have been dated to around 300 BC. French beans were
brought to Europe in the early 16th century. Early varieties were all
climbers, and dwarf French beans were not commonly grown until the 18th
century.
another similar reference:
Distribution
Common beans are native to the New World, probably Central Mexico and
Guatemala. They were taken to Europe by the
Spaniards and Portuguese who also took them to Africa and other parts of
the Old World. Now they are widely cultivated in
the tropics, subtropics and temperate regions.
Herando Cortes is guilty of bringing "green" beans to europe. Date of
Cortes is 1485-1547
Now the beans which immediately were called "fagioli" then a century
later (1653) recieve the name of haricot beans. Pope Clement VII
Clement VII, Pope c.1475-1534, pope (1523-34), recieves several and
gives some to Canon Piero Valeriano who culivates them in Italy, as well
as passing on some beans to Catherine de' Merdici in 1533 who brings
them to France.
Main Entry: har…i…cot
Pronunciation: '(h)ar-i-"kO
Function: noun
Etymology: French
Date: 1653
: the ripe seed or the unripe pod of any of several beans (genus
Phaseolus and especially P. vulgaris)
> The later is the seed pod of Vicia faba, the fava or broad bean. The
edible seed looks a little like a white lima bean. This is the bean that
would be appropriate for a period feast.
Yepper, on the bean, BUT, Now, the ten dollar question: at what stage of
growth was the bean pod also used in medieval cookery preparation and
the color of the pod?
*grin*....
rayah
Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 13:10:49 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG>
> > To my knowledge, there is no record of these having been consumed in
> >Europe within the SCA period.
>
> Herando Cortes is guilty of bringing "green" beans to europe. Date of
> Cortes is 1485-1547
To be precise, I know of no use of unshelled New World beans in period
(which is what the menu that kicked this off suggested).
Introduction and cultivation does not equate to culinary use. Tomatoes were
brought back to the Old World early on and known to be in Italy in 1534 and
in England by 1596, but they were used as ornamentals rather than food
plants. Sweet potatoes were in common use early on, but the white potato
was generally ignored. There is evidence that the white was imported into
Spain in 1573 as some form of emergency food and there is a German recipe
from the very late 16th Century for a potato dish, but as a general food
stuff white potatos didn't take off until the 18th Century.
> Now the beans which immediately were called "fagioli" then a century
> later (1653) recieve the name of haricot beans. Pope Clement VII
> Clement VII, Pope c.1475-1534, pope (1523-34), recieves several and
> gives some to Canon Piero Valeriano who culivates them in Italy, as well
> as passing on some beans to Catherine de' Merdici in 1533 who brings
> them to France.
To my knowledge, this is apocryphal. Catherine was 14 in 1533, her family
was in dire straits financially having been on the wrong side of a bad civil
war, and her Uncle, Pope Clement, used her to cement a political alliance
with the French. Her retinue belonged to the Pope and all those wonderous
Italian cooks went back to Italy with him. She was a very small player in
French history until 1560, when she became Regent for her son. She spent
the next 29 years making up for lost time, changing France's culinary tastes
in the process. Unless there is primary evidence that she did receive
haricots from Canon Piero Valeriano, I would consider the story
questionable.
> Main Entry: har…i…cot
> Pronunciation: '(h)ar-i-"kO
> Function: noun
> Etymology: French
> Date: 1653
> : the ripe seed or the unripe pod of any of several beans (genus
> Phaseolus and especially P. vulgaris)
Yes, and how were they served? The best evidence I've seen is a late 16th
Century painting called "The Bean Eater," shows a peasant eating a bowl of
shelled beans. The recipes I've seen would not work well with unshelled
beans.
> > The later is the seed pod of Vicia faba, the fava or broad bean. The
> edible seed looks a little like a white lima bean. This is the bean that
> would be appropriate for a period feast.
>
> Yepper, on the bean, BUT, Now, the ten dollar question: at what stage of
> growth was the bean pod also used in medieval cookery preparation and
> the color of the pod?
> *grin*....
>
> rayah
The dried pod is green around the edges and brown on the sides. I haven't
seen a fresh pod or the growing plant.
To my knowledge, the pod is not used in medieval cooking, at least, I
haven't seen primary source recipe or description to that effect. If you
have one, I would be interested in the source.
One of the reasons for not using the pod (in fact for not serving favas at a
feast) is that a number of people, usually of Southern European extraction,
display an allergic reaction to the fava. This is commonly very mild , but
there is a small percentage who have an anaphylactic reaction. Some
authorities believe Pythagoras died from an anaphylactic reaction to fava
beans after avoiding arrest by hiding in a bean field.
At any rate, I would not serve what we in the U.S. call "green beans" at an
"authentic" Medieval feast. They would be Renaissance at best.
Bear
Subject: Re: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 22:27:44 MST
From: RAISYA@aol.com
To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG
I've been listening in on the discussion of period beans with interest. I
have an interest in plants, not as much as a cook but as a gardener. New
world shell beans were available before 1600 in Europe, whether or not they
were common, they were known in Europe within our period. I haven't found a
description of snap beans, I'd be interested in that.
Fava or broad beans, however, were not the only period bean. Charlemagne's
CAPITULARE DE VILLIS (ca. 800 AD) refers to a "kidney" bean as well as a fava.
The 14th century TACUINUM SANITATIS IN MEDICINA includes illuminations of both
favas and another quite different plant called a bean. There are several
obscure Old World candidates, the Asian dolichos or lab-lab bean seems to fit
the illumination and descriptions the best. Additionally, in the TACUINUM
there are illuminations of a chickpea and a plant I haven't yet identified
called a vetchling that seems to have pods and was cooked much like the
beans.
>peas, frenched beans, mashed beans, sieved beans or beans in their shell
In the TACUINUM, the author recommends eating favas cooked in water and
vinegar and eaten unshelled to treat dysentary. I generally get an impression
that the pods aren't considered too tasty, though, so this reference interests
me <G>.
I don't really care one way or another about the inclusion of New World foods,
that's the discretion of the cooks, or should be. I just found this part of
the discussion intriguing. It's amazing what we can learn when we share
information.
However, my husband is deathly allergic to all legumes, and we had a bad scare
a while back when someone used the same spoon to stir several pots,
accidentally adding some peas to a dish that wasn't supposed to have any.
Luckily, he spotted a pea in his bowl. Now, we rarely eat feasts that include
legumes, which means we won't be eating this one. We don't eat pot-luck
feasts for the same reason.
BTW, one of the reasons for the importance of favas as a food had to do with
WHEN they were grown. Favas don't tolerate warm weather and were planted
after other crops were harvested, getting extended use out of the same space.
New World beans are a tender warm weather crop. Also, the fava seed I have
is flat, brown and large, larger than a quarter.
Raisya Khorivovna
Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 07:02:06 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG>
> Fava or broad beans, however, were not the only period bean. Charlemagne's
> CAPITULARE DE VILLIS (ca. 800 AD) refers to a "kidney" bean as well as a fava.
> The 14th century TACUINUM SANITATIS IN MEDICINA includes illuminations of both
> favas and another quite different plant called a bean. There are several
> obscure Old World candidates, the Asian dolichos or lab-lab bean seems to fit
> the illumination and descriptions the best. Additionally, in the TACUINUM
> there are illuminations of a chickpea and a plant I haven't yet identified
> called a vetchling that seems to have pods and was cooked much like the
> beans.
You also have fasoles, which are an African variety of Vigna sinensis and
are the ancestor of the modern black-eyed pea. Another variety commonly
called the cowpea has its origins in India.
Vetchlings are members of genus Lathyrus, but I haven't taken the time to
chase down the appropriate species.
> BTW, one of the reasons for the importance of favas as a food had to do with
> WHEN they were grown. Favas don't tolerate warm weather and were planted
> after other crops were harvested, getting extended use out of the same space.
> New World beans are a tender warm weather crop. Also, the fava seed I have is
> flat, brown and large, larger than a quarter.
>
> Raisya Khorivovna
A little casual reading last night suggests that there a couple varieties of
fava. The chief difference appears to be the size of the seed. There were
no comments on the difference in taste. I think the seed you are describing
is the large seed variety.
Bear
Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 06:52:59 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG>
> Actually, I think originally there were a number of varieties of fava/broad
> beans, most of them now lost. I simply intended to give a first hand
> description of the ones I have. If you have any information on time to
> maturity, etc. I'd be delighted to hear it, I have only the vaguest of
> information on growing these. So far, according to the LE MESNAGIER DE PARIS
> (late 14th century) they are planted about the same time as peas. From an
> illumination, they appear to be an upright plant rather than a vine. And
> that's about all I know for certain.
>
> Raisya Khorivovna
You are correct, the plant is stiff-stemmed and erect. It also appears
there are a number of moden varieties, but no real information about
medieval varieties.
If you are interested in growing favas, I would start with these web sites:
http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/mv/mv01700.pdf (please note this
is a pdf document which requires the Acrobat reader)
http://www.efn.org/~rossr/cont.html
If you are interested in cooking favas, I'd start with Stefan's Florilegium:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/beans-msg.html
Bear
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:10:13 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
Jessica Tiffin wrote:
> Please, can one of you American cooks give me an alternative name for fava
> beans? They ain't known in South Africa under that name. What do the
> darned things look like? White? Brown? Approximate shape? All the stuff
> I have on period beans tells me that favas are the most period variety,
> which isn't helping much... :>
Hmmm. You might look for them under the name "broad bean", which, I
gather, is sometimes used in connection with favas, although it's also
used in connection with some New World beans too. "French beans" also is
sometimes used to describe immature favas in some translations of
Apician recipes, but, again, also is used in connection with New World
varieties. But then, of course, most of the world doesn't speak of
everything in its capacity of usefulness in historical recreation, and
doesn't give a hoot about such distinctions.
The dried favas in the markets have been shelled, but tend to be your
usual vaguely kidney-shaped, slightly flattish bean with a slightly
reddish, lentil colored skin when raw, which turns sort of mud brown
when cooked. They will likely be 3/4 to 1 inch (2 to 2 1/2 cm) long, and
perhaps 1/2 inch (1 cm) wide, and the biggest difference between favas
and any other bean I know is their leathery skin: I'm not talking about
the shell or pod, mind you, but the actual skin on each bean, which is
paper-thin (and soft when cooked) on the New World varieties. Unless you
find split favas in a Middle Eastern or other suitable market, the beans
may have to be peeled by hand, unless soaked for a long time before
cooking, almost to the point where they begin to germinate. This will
cause them to burst out of their skins somewhat, and make the whole
process a bit easier.
Fresh favas tend to show up in markets in the pod, which is pale green
and somewhat leathery, looking more or less like a mimosa pod, only much
thicker and slightly waxy.
Not sure what else I can say...cooked fava beans have a texture like
cooked chestnuts, and something of their flavor and color, as well, but
without the sweetness.
You might get some via mail-order or something. The best place to look
locally, if you have access to such, would be a market selling
Mediterranean (i.e. Southern European or Middle Eastern, but
Mediterranean is the new maddeningly vague term usually employed)
groceries.
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:22:15 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
> All the stuff
> I have on period beans tells me that favas are the most period variety,
> which isn't helping much... :>
>
> Melisant
Take a look at cowpeas and black-eyed peas. My understanding is that these
are variants of the same species which originated in India was brought to
Africa and entered Europe from Africa in the late Medieval period.
The black-eyed pea was presumably imported into the US as part of the slave
trade.
Bear
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:43:06 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss@gte.net>
Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
Hey all from Anne-Marie
re: nom de plums for fava beans....
see also broad beans, and "horse beans" of all things. The bins at our
middle eastern market show them to come in a wide variety of colors and
shapes and sizes, but the most common is either like a large browny green
lima bean with a thick leathery skin, or else the canned variety, which
resembles a brownish garbanzo bean with a thick skin.
As far as I know, "black eyed peas" and "cowpeas" are new world beans. They
may have been introduced to colonial america by the slave trade, but
several other new world foods like sweet potatoes and peanuts were as well
(amazing how things move so quickly, no? The porteugese see 'em here, and
bring 'em home and use them and next thing you know, the Africans are using
them, and then they come back home...) Anything with the genus Phaseolus
is. Fava, garbanzos and lentils are in the pea family. If you get a chance
to look at the plants, you can eaily tell the difference, and if you wanna
do a bit of dissection, the way the seed is assembled can tell the
difference too. Kidney beans are Phaseolus, and they have a "belly button"
in a certain place. Fava and friends have their "belly buttons" in a
different place.
- --AM, who is very angry with Mr Vehling for interpreting Apicius as being
for "french beans". Sheesh!
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:49:31 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
TerryD@Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< Cowpeas are Vigna unguiculata and are of Old World origin.
Bear >>
Correct. The Chinese yard long bean is also a Vigna. The unique thing about
CYL bean is that we have what is apparently an very close to life-like
illumination of it in a manuscript dating before discovery of the New World
Using that illumination as a reference point I planted these beans in my
garden this year. They work in all the period recipes we have for beans that
do not specify fava specifically. Oh, one other interesting thing about them
is that they come from the area that most of the Oriental spices (e.g.
cinnamon, etc. come from and the dried bean looks like a miniature red
kidney bean which are mentioned in period sources, IIRC.
Mind you, I'm not saying that these were known in Europe but all the
circumstantial evidence adds up to the probability that they were known. If
they were known it would explain a lot about why Europeans accepted Phaseolus
beans so extraordinarily quickly. CYL beans a long and green, have kidney
shaped beans and most importantly they taste like Phaseolus beans in both
the green state and mature dried form.
Considering that CYK beans yield sporadically and present their harvest over a
long period of time, it is a small step to realize that they would have been
supplanted almost immediately by newly discovered beans from the New World
that had a flavor almost exact flavor, superior yield, grew rapidly and
enjoyed a relatively short total harvest season.
All of this does not add up to the fact that they were known but the
evidence available adds up to a likely possiblility.
Ras
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:25:49 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
At 9:40 AM +0200 12/5/98, Jessica Tiffin wrote:
>Please, can one of you American cooks give me an alternative name for fava
>beans?
Broad beans. I think I've also seen them labelled "fabiolo" or something
similiar in Italian or Spanish.
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:36:12 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Fava beans?? (and thanks)
> Considering that CYK beans yield sporadically and present their harvest over a
> long period of time, it is a small step to realize that they would have been
> supplanted almost immediately by newly discovered beans from the New World
> that had a flavor almost exact flavor, superior yield, grew rapidly and
> enjoyed a relatively short total harvest season.
>
> All of this does not add up to the fact that they were known but the
> evidence available adds up to a likely possiblility.
>
> Ras
There is a 16th Century (IIRC) painting entitled The Bean Eater which shows
what appears to be a farmer eating a bowl of beans. The beans are kidney
shaped, white with a black spot at the inside of the bend. I haven't been
able to identify them, but I think they are some form of Phaseolus. The
painting may support your contention of early adoption.
Bear
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:15:51 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: SC - Broad (fava) beans more info
Bean, Broad -- Vicia faba L.
James M. Stephens
Broad bean is also known as horse bean, Windsor bean, English bean, tick bean,
fava bean, field bean, and pigeon bean. Broad
beans are sometimes classified into subspecies according to varieties and
their uses in various countries. Thus, subspecies faba
var. minor is the beck, tick, or pigeon bean, greatly used for human
consumption in the Arabic world, but also used for animal
forage, like the horse bean (var. equina ) specifically fed to horses. The
broad bean proper, also known as Windsor or straight
bean, is var. major . Indian varieties, generally dried and eaten as pulses,
are classified as subspecies paucyuga .
The origin of broad beans is obscure, but the best information indicates the
Mediterranean area. Remains are reported to have
been found in Egyptian tombs.
DESCRIPTION
Broad beans get their name from the seeds which are large and flat. Seeds
are variable in size and shape, but usually are nearly
round and white, green, buff, brown, purple, or black. Pods are large and
thick, but vary from 2-12 inches in length. The plant is an
erect, stiff-stemmed, leafy legume reaching 2-5 feet when mature. They are
quite different from common beans in appearance
because the leaves look more like those of English peas than bean leaves.
Small white flowers are borne in spikelets.
CULTURE
Broad bean is a long, cool season crop, requiring 4-5 months from planting
to harvest. In most of Florida it is best to plant from
September through March. It is grown as a summer annual in northern climates
and as a winter annual in warmer climates. In the
tropics it is adapted only at higher altitudes. Flowering is adversely
affected by dry, hot weather.
USE
The parts of the plants used are the seeds as a cooked vegetable. Pick the
beans when they are full-sized, but before the pods dry,
since they are a green-shell bean. They may also be used as a dry bean for
food and livestock feed. Broad beans are very
nutritious, containing 23% protein.
A word of caution is necessary because where these beans are eaten regularly
as the main diet, as in certain tropical countries, a
paralytic condition known as favaism has occurred.
Seeds are not as widely available as those of other types of beans. Most
local garden supply stores in the USA do not carry them.
The varieties `Long Pod' and `Giant Three-seeded' are often advertised.
Other Varieties Fava Beans.
Aquadulce
Ipro
Banner
Ite
Bell
Masterpiece
Bonnie Lad
Minica
Broad Windsor
Primo
Brunette
Relon
Bunyard's Exhibition
Suprifin
Colossal
Tezieroma
Express
Toto
Fava
Windsor
Hava
Witkiem Major
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:12:59 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans??
melisant@iafrica.com writes:
<< We do also get the little red kidney beans, which Ras suggested are also
mentioned in period sources - which ones? Could you post some recipes?? :>
>>
The 'little red kidney beans' I mentioned are the dried seeds of Chinese Yard
Long beans. These beans are very small averaging only about 1/3 of an inch
long. The product labeled 'kidney beans' in the supermarket are 2 to 3 plus
times larger and, SFAIK, are a species of Phaseolus therefore New World.
Chinese Yard Long Beans are not Phaseolus. And as indicated in my previous
post, their use in the Middle Ages is merely conjecture on my part. Until I
can find some evidence that clearly shows their use in medieval times, I
would be very hesitant about serving them at feast or claiming them as 'period'
for western cultures.
Ras
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:14:55 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Black-eyed peas
phlip@bright.net writes:
<< Are you sure about that, Ras? I was always told that it was the other way
around, that black-eyed peas were actually beans. >>
Sorry for the confusion. Black-eyed peas are a member of the Vigna spp. They
are all commonly referred to as cowpeas. Technically they are , in fact,
beans. The legumes have many terms used for their several categories
including beans, cowpeas, peas, lupines and other terms depending on the
individual chacteristics.
While black-eyed peas are in fact a bean, they are more accurately cowpeas
when a descriptive term is applied to them. My apologies for the confusion
but I was trying to distinguish them from Phaseolus and specific other Vigna
spp.at the time.
My error :-(.
Ras
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:15:55 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Black-eyed peas
> TerryD@Health.State.OK.US writes:
> << Since there are more varieties of beans than I have encountered, I
> leave the question of precise identification open for further research.
>
> Bear >>
>
> Was there any accompanying text with the illustration that you cited which
> could shed any light on the matter? My possible illumination of a long
> green bean was merely a decorative element on the page and completely
> unrelated to the text. :-(
>
> Ras
It was being used as a decorative illustration. The particular piece is The
Bean Eater by Annibale Carracci (1560-1609).
Looking at a better reproduction from the wife's collection, the colors run
more toward tan, so it could be black-eyed peas which are being eaten.
I think the Italian title may be Mangafagioli. If so, according to Root,
the fagioli refers specifically to haricot beans. Unfortunately, we still
have the problem of artistic license.
Thanks for passing on the information about the coloration of cowpeas.
While rooting around in my stacks, I came across the information that your
Yard Long Beans are Vigna unguiclata sesquipedalis and are also commonly
named asparagus beans or Goa beans.
Bear
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:43:29 -0600
From: allilyn@juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Bean experiments
Tonight's Play in the Kitchen dealt with some bean experiments. I don't
have any Fava beans, so the experiments still have a great gap, but
having washed, soaked, rinsed and cooked pea beans, pinto beans, great
northern beans, navy beans, chick peas and lentils I don't find much
taste difference in any of them. What little there might be would be
covered with the onions and garlic that seem ubiquitous to period
preparations. Once brayed, they'd look almost the same, too, except for
a bit of color difference, and that could be changed with the recommended
saffron.
Now, all that being so, what is the point of driving for a hour or two to
find Fava beans just because they were the ones we know were grown?
There may be a moral imperative here, as to being totally period (of
course, I'm cooking these on an electric stove and storing in a frig) but
when the resulting bean mush is all the same, I feel that the dangers of
serving Fava beans to people with a variety of unknown health
problems--ancestry, medications, etc.--are not worth the doing.
Allison
allilyn@juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:10:27 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Bean experiments
allilyn@juno.com writes:
<< Now, all that being so, what is the point of driving for a hour or two to
find Fava beans just because they were the ones we know were grown?
There may be a moral imperative here, as to being totally period (of
course, I'm cooking these on an electric stove and storing in a frig) but
when the resulting bean mush is all the same, I feel that the dangers of
serving Fava beans to people with a variety of unknown health
problems--ancestry, medications, etc.--are not worth the doing.
>>
Please don't take this personally but I find there is a very great difference
in flavor between all the varieties that you mentioned especailly favas and
the other beans. Also there is circumstantial evidence that suggests that
several other beans may have been grown in period besides favas, such as
yard long beans and black-eyed peas.
The gist of your post, if I read it correctly, is that you feel the
similarities warrant their use. You also feel that supposed difficulty in
obtaining them coupled with a rare allergic reaction to favas also warrant
their exclusion. These insignificant factors alone then warrant the
substitution of Phaseolus species for known Old World species. Am I correct?
If so, my position is that ease of attaining ingredients should not be a
factor. Simply use other recipes which do not call for the product, grow
your own or, most significantly, have your grocer order them for you.
Similarities with New World products sounds like a reasonable reason. However,
this observation is based on your personal taste. I can tell the difference
between different varieties of green beans, potatoes and tomatoes among other
things. To my palette those differences are real enough to cause me to not
prepare certain dishes if the variety necessary for the dish is not available.
The flavor diffierence between favas, lentils, chickpeas and New World beans
is so glaring to a trained palatte that they are as different as licorice,
oranges, walnuts and grapes.
In addressing the allergy angle, the reaction to favas is EXTREMELY rare and
is limited to persons descended from ancestors that come from a very narrow
Mediteranian region. If we were to use this argument we would have to leave
every known food out of feasts, especially since allergies to nuts, assorted
fruits, alliums, dairy products, seafood, fish and wheat are more wisespread
than fava allergies.
When we come across rare or unusual ingredients in recipes the far better
route, IMO, would be to try to obtain the ingredient or forego using the
recipe rather than compromise the truth by degrading cookery from a
respected art/science to the level of 'slopping the hogs'.
Ras
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:02:57 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Lupini Beans??
TerryD@Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< I can't place them, but it is possible that you are talking about lupine
seeds. Lupine or lupin is a generic name for members of the genus Lupinus
in the pea family. Lupines have been cultivated since the Bronze Age, so it
is very likely they were known in period.
Bear >>
Lupini are EXTREMELY poisonous if eaten raw and must be thouroughly cooked
which removes the poisons.
Ras
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:52:04 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: SC - Lupini Beans-update
CONRAD3@prodigy.net writes:
<< Yes these do look similar to what I saw, but the ones I saw were dried
beans. >>
In my previous post I said that lupines were poisonous and miust be cooked
before eating to render the poison harmless. This is only partially correct.
Of the 100+ species of lupines, the white lupine has been bred to produce a
few non-poisonous
varieties. The others are still grown, however, so caution would be the best
route when using these beans because variety is not usually listed on the
package.
Historical additions:
Although these legumes grew wild in Italy and Greece and were collected and
used by both cultures, they were not cultivated until the Roman empire. They
were considered a food for the poor and great cauldrons of them were prepared
for the poor on certain festival days. By the beginning of the Italian
Renaissance, they disappear from culinary tomes and are not mentioned
again until after that period.
Toussant-Samat in History of Food talks about them a little. Poisonous
properties and a minor amount of history was mentioned in The Visual Food
Encyclopedia.
Although considered by many in the Current Middle Ages to be at best an
Italian ethnic food, the vast majority of gardeners today grow them for there
beautiful white, mauve and pink flowers, for which they have been known
throughout history.
Ras
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:30:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Lupini Beans-update
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 23-Jan-99 SC - Lupini
Beans-update by LrdRas@aol.com
> for the poor on certain festival days. By the beginning of the Italian
> Renaissance , they disappear from culinary tomes and are not mentioned
> again until after that period.
That is not entirely correct -- both Platina and Castelvetro discuss
lupines. Castelvetro says :Our womenfolk and little children nibble at
lupin beans between meals during the hottest summer days. They are very
bitter but can easily be sweetened by putting them in a canal or deep
stream of clear running water, in a thightly fastened bag securd to a
pole or hook, so that the current flows right through them. The lupins
are left there for two or three whole days, until they have lost their
bitterness and become sweet. Them they are peeled and salted and
nibbled more as a snack than anything else, the sort of thing that only
appeals to pregnant women or silly children. Dried lupins are used to
fatten pigs and other animals. (He also mentions that lupin beans can
be used to drive away moles and enrich poor soil)
Platina doesn't talk about the beans, but does advise cooking and eating
the stalks like you would asparagus. From the description, "harsh" and
"they are very bitter", it is likely the same plant.
toodles, margaret
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:47:00 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bean Pie
At 12:42 PM -0500 11/10/99, Eric & Mary Ward wrote:
>I have just recently signed onto this listserv & am finding it very
>educational. Now I have a request for the members of the list, if I
>may.
>
>I have been asked to make a 'bean pie' for a feast at our local
>Champions Event.
>I have found some recipes in modern cookbooks for it.
>What I would like to ask is:
>
>It has been requested as a dessert. Would a bean pie be a dessert?
>Would it be considered 'period' & does anyone have a recipe?
Both of these are worked out recipes from the Miscellany
<snip of chick-pea pie recipe - see peas-msg>
To Make a Tarte of Beans
A Proper Newe Book of Cookery p. 37/C11
Take beanes and boyle them tender in fayre water, then take theym
oute and breake them in a morter and strayne them with the yolckes of
foure egges, curde made of mylke, then ceason it up with suger and
halfe a dysche of butter and a lytle synamon and bake it.
To make short paest for tarte
A Proper Newe Book p. 37/C10
Take fyne floure and a curscy of fayre water and a dysche of swete
butter and a lyttel saffron, and the yolkes of two egges and make it
thynne and as tender as ye maye.
1/2 lb (1 1/4 c) dry fava beans 1/2 c curds (cottage cheese) 6 T butter
4 egg yolks 4 T sugar 4 t cinnamon
Crust:
6 threads saffron crushed in 1 t cool water 5-6 T very soft butter
1 c flour 2 egg yolks
Put beans in 2 1/2 c of water, bring to boil and let sit, covered, 70
minutes. Add another cup of water, boil about 50 minutes, until soft.
Drain beans and mush in food processor. Cool bean paste so it won't
cook the yolks. Mix in yolks; add cottage cheese (do not drain); add
sugar, butter (soft or in small bits) and cinnamon, then mush it all
together to a thick liquid.
To make crust, mix saffron water into flour; add egg yolks and mix
well (will be crumbly). Add 4 T butter and mix well; add enough of
remaining butter to make a smooth paste. (Amount used depends upon
softness of butter and warmth of kitchen.) Roll smooth and place in
9" pie plate. Crimp edge. Pour into raw crust and bake at 350ƒ for
about 50 minutes (top cracks). Cool before eating.
David Friedman
Professor of Law
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:43:56 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Lab Rat Redux (cooking exper.)
Alia Atlas writes:
<< Boil green beans (This probably refers to something like fava beans. These
are no string beans. String beans are a New World food.) >>
Correct about the phaseolus green beans. But as I posted sometime ago, using
a picture of an illuminated manuscript I found in a book (source unknown now
but when found will be posted), I still am of the opinion that either Chinese
yard long beans or, possible young black-eyed peas were the actual 'green
beans ' referred to during period. The yard long beans look EXACTLY like the
illustration when a photo is placed side by side and in real life. Also the
dried beans of the yard long beans is a perfect miniature of what we know of
as 'kidney' beans. So there is a possibility that when 'kidney bean' is
mentioned in period manuscripts the yard long in a dried state is also meant.
I know that this is all circumstantial evidence but I would bet my money that
yard longs are the evasive period 'green' and 'kidney' beans.
Ras
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 17:30:43 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm@efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Lab Rat Redux (cooking exper.)
Valoise Armstrong wrote:
> Just one quick note. I believe gruene can refer to fresh beans as well
> as green beans.
> Instead of dried beans, you might try this with fresh ones.
The Middle English 'grene' also means 'new', 'untested/untried', even
'raw'. And holds hints of the supernatural.
'Lainie
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:09:08 EST
From: LrdRas@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period green beans
ringofkings@mindspring.com writes:
<< Could the asparagus pea or winged lotus (Tetragonorobus purpureus) have been
what was described as 'green beans? You eat them pod and all and they do look
more like beans than peapods. It is listed in Gerard as the four square
velvet pea.
Akim >>
Absolutely. I only references yard long beans because I grew them a couple of
years in a row and they look so much like the 13th century illumination that
is down right eerie :-) The period recipes for 'green beans' and 'kidney'
beans also work extremely well with this variety in my experience. Is a there
are source for a picture of the beans that you mention? I looked in my seed
catalogs and can't find them . :-(
Ras
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:13:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?
Well, if they can eat fava beans, I've got a nice recipe for a little
tartlet -- it's just out of period (1614). Personally, I think this
stuff looks and smells hideous, but my husband, who ordinarily won't eat
beans at all, kept raiding my kitchen while I was testing this
recipe. Original is from The Fruit, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy by
Giacomo Castelvetro,1614, trans
lated by Gillian Riley:
Favetta
Here is another recipe, which is somewhat more refined than the other
two. Cook the beans in water with salt, and put them in a stone mortar
with a little of their cooking liquid, and pound them with a wooden
pestle until they are white as snow. Serve this favetta hot with olive
oil, pepper and clean, washed raisins. Some use cinnamon as a seasoning
instead of pepper.
1 can Fava beans
Fresh noodle or pastry dough
1/4 cup raisins + some more
pepper, cinnamon to taste
Olive oil
salt
1 Tbsp honey or to taste
Cook fava beans in water with salt until soft. Pound them into a paste
with a little of the cooking water "until white as snow". Stir in
raisins, spices, honey, and 2 Tbsp olive oil. Take pastry or noodle
dough, and cut out rounds. Put a spoonful of puree on each round, add a
few more raisins, fold and seal. To cook, heat olive oil in frying pan.
Fry on both sides until cooked, drain, sprinkle with sugar, and serve.
One can of beans makes enough 20
toodles, margaret
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:40:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 22-Feb-100 Re: SC -
Suggestions for a .. by Bronwynmgn@aol.com
> Did I miss something? I can't see anything in the original that
suggests the
> bean paste should be put into pastry and fried. It looks to me like you
> should serve the pureed beans hot with olive oil, pepper or cinnamon, and
> raisins. More like refried beans.
No, you didn't, I think I did. I've loaned out my copy of the
manuscript, but somewhere in the recipe for favetta it says that wrap
them in paste and fry them, and that ladies keep these in little boxes
for delicate nibbling.
Sorry about that.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:32:13 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?
Quite a while ago, Lorix wrote:
>... Attending the feast will
>be a couple of people with a variety of food
>preferences and/or allergies. Now I am fine with
>most things but I am looking for a protein dish
>for a lactose intolerant vegetarian (in this case
>meaning no fish or chicken, butter, cheese or
>other dairy products).
and made it clear later that the dish also had to include no wheat or
eggs. Several people suggested beans; here is my favorite period fava
bean dish. The greens, sage, and figs give it a more interesting
taste than bean dishes usually have.
Fried Broad Beans
Platina p. 115 (book 7)
Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan
with soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry
them well rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface,
spread this into the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it. [end
of original]
1 c dried fava beans
6-8 T lard
1/2 c+ onions
2/3 c figs (cut in about 8 pieces)
1/2 t sage
1/2 t salt
pot herbs: 1 1/2 c spinach, packed
1 1/2 c parsley, packed
1 1/2 c mustard greens, packed
1 1/2 c turnip greens
Spices for sprinkling on top: 1/4 t ginger, 1/2 t cinnamon, 1/4 t pepper
Bring beans to a boil in 2 1/2 c water, leave to soak about 1/2 hour,
then simmer another hour, until soft. Drain the beans, mix the whole
mess together and fry it in the lard for 10 minutes, then serve it
forth with spices sprinkled on it. This is also good with
substantially less greens. The original doesn't specify what greens
to use; other greens I have used on occasion include cabbage and
dandelion greens, depending on what I could get.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 16:32:32 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr@best.com>
Subject: SC - Fried Broad Beans (was: Suggestions for a mushroom dish?)
I posted Platina's fried broad beans recipe and Sue Clemenger responded:
>That sounds pretty good. Have you tried both fresh and dried figs? Any
>preference?
>--Maire NiNuanain
I've only done it with dried figs.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:31:59 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD@Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request
> I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago. They never
> completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them for
> several hours. I've been reluctant to use them ever since.
>
> Mercedes
I've had this problem with dried legumes which have been stored for extended
periods and have not discovered a satisfactory answer. It may be they need
to be soaked longer or be cooked for an extended period or both. I have not
had the problem with dried legumes purchased shortly before use from my
local health food store which sells them in bulk and has a high turnover.
Bear
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:41:04 +1000
From: "Lee-Gwen Booth" <piglet006@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request
From: Mercedes
> I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago. They never
> completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them
> for several hours. I've been reluctant to use them ever since.
Simple solution! Invest in a pressure cooker - I would not be without mine.
It does amazing things to dry beans and makes the most wonderful brown rice
imaginable (what is more, do it properly and you don't even have to drain
it. Ready, cooked, soft and delicious, and in its own serving dish in about
20 minutes!
Gwynydd of Culloden
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:09:11 -0400
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip@morganco.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Lamb recipe and vegetable stew recipe request
Mercedes skrev:
>I used dried chickpeas at a feast I did a couple years ago. They never
completely softened up and I soaked them overnight and then cooked them for
several hours. I've been reluctant to use them ever since. <
I ran into the same problem a few years ago with black beans- I boiled them
off and on f