vegetarian-msg - 4/2/08
Medieval vegetarianism. Lenten foods.
NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, turnips-msg, mushrooms-msg, salads-msg, root-veg-msg, eggs-msg, dairy-prod-msg, cheese-msg.
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From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Feast Menus
Date: 16 Nov 1993 03:34:53 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School
0005290822 at mcimail.COM (Robert A. Goff) wrote:
<snip>
> Also, does anyone know of a period dish that would approximate a non-
> meat stew for the vegetarians among us? From the same cuisine as the
> meat dish? Thanks.
A Muzawwara (Vegetarian Dish) Beneficial for Tertian Fevers and Acute
Fevers
Andalusian p. A-52 [13th c. Western Islamic]
Take boiled peeled lentils and wash in hot water several times; put in the
pot and add water without covering them; cook and then throw in pieces of
gourd, or the stems [ribs] of Swiss chard, or of lettuce and its tender
sprigs, or the flesh of cucumber or melon, and vinegar, coriander seed, a
little cumin, Chinese cinnamon, saffron and two ûqiyas of fresh oil;
balance with a little salt and cook. Taste, and if its flavor is pleasingly
balanced between sweet and sour, [good;] and if not, reinforce until it is
equalized, according to taste, and leave it to lose its heat until it is
cold and then serve.
2 c lentils 1 1/2 t cinnamon one of the following: 1 1/2 lb butternut
squash
5 c water 6 threads saffron 1 lb chard or beet leaves
1/4 c cider vinegar 1/4 c oil 1 lb lettuce
3/4 t ground coriander 1 t salt 2 8" cucumbers
3/4 t cumin melon (?)
Boil lentils about 40 minutes until they start to get mushy. Add spices and
vinegar and oil. Add one of the vegetables; leafy vegetables should be torn
up, squash or cucumbers are cut into bite-sized pieces and cooked about
10-15 minutes before being added to lentils. Cook lettuce or chard version
for about 10 minutes, until leaves are soft. Cook squash or cucumber
version about 20 minutes. Be careful not to burn during the final cooking.
Rapes in Potage [or Carrots or Parsnips]
Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7)
Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem; perboile
hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and seeÝ hem; mynce oynouns and
cast Ýerto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with powdour douce. In the
self wise make of pastunakes and skyrwittes.
Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots;
skirrets are, according to the OED, ³a species of water parsnip, formerly
much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers.² We have never found
them available in the market.
1 lb turnips, carrots, or parsnips 6 threads saffron powder douce: 2 t
sugar
2 c chicken broth (canned, diluted) 3/4 t salt 3/8 t cinnamon
1/2 lb onions 3/8 t ginger
Wash, peel, and quarter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are large),
cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes. If you are using
carrots or parsnips, clean them and cut them up into large bite-sized
pieces and parboil 10 minutes. Mince onions. Drain turnips, carrots, or
parsnips, and put them with onions and chicken broth in a pot and bring to
a boil. Crush saffron into about 1 t of the broth and add seasonings to
potage. Cook another 15-20 minutes, until turnips or carrots are soft to a
fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.
> Brother Crimthann
> rgoff at mcimail.com
Hope these help.
David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Feast Menus
Date: 17 Nov 1993 16:46:58 GMT
Organization: The Rialto
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
Brother Crimthann asks,
> Also, does anyone know of a period dish that would approximate a non-
>meat stew for the vegetarians among us? From the same cuisine as the meat
>dish? Thanks.
There are various dishes for worts or joutes (greens). There
are several vegetable pottages (I frequently make a somewhat
different version of the one Cariadoc posted), though they
tend to look rather more like soup than stew. There are ground
bean dishes and many, many, many versions of pea soup.
None of these, really, are particularly marvelous for main
dishes, though, at least as I tend to make them. A better
option might be Tart in Ember Day, a sort of medieval onion
cheese quiche that tends to go over very well, and is reasonably
good cold. (At least, this is fine for ovo-lactos.) If you're
interested, I have an article giving two medieval recipes for
this and a variety of ways to make it up coming out in the next
issue of the _Oak_ (Atlantia's A&S issue of the newsletter, at
the chronicler's and waiting for printing several months now);
I can send you a copy if you like.
Hope this helps!
-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Ken Mondschein)
Subject: Vegetarians Unite! (plus free recipe!)
Organization: University at Buffalo
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 19:22:00 GMT
Look, everybody! I've done something *useful*!!!
Over Thanksgiving break, I tried a recipe for a meat-less grete
pie (which is basically a mincemeat pie). The recipe was adapted from
Baroness Angharad of the Sleeping Lion's own, so thank her, not me.
The recipe is good, plus has the advantage of being very low in fat
and cheaper than making the stuff out of Real Dead Cow (tm). It's authentically
medieval, as well (or at least the Real Dead Cow (tm) version is), being
(according to Baroness Angharad) from a 15th century English cookbook, with
variations "served throughout the middle ages."
The "Nature's Burger" stuff can be found in any decent supermarket,
food co-op, or health food store.
***
VIRTUAL MINCEMEAT PIE
Double pastry crust
1 box Nature's Burger
1/3 cup red wine (I used Manachevitz left over from Passover)
1/4 tsp mace (I used nutmeg, since I couldn't get mace)
1/2 tsp salt
1/8 tsp each cloves and pepper
1/2 cup raisins (optional: use mixture of dates, prunes, and currants)
***Optional: 1 box Tofu Crumbles (for texture, they're sort of like chopped
meat made from tofu. I found it at Top's, but you can use whatever you like).
***Optional: 3-5 tablespoons olive or vegetable oil (for frying in/moistening
the filling).
1.) Make the Nature's Burger mix according to the instructions on the box.
2.) Fry the mix (about a third at a time) in a pan (I used a teflon pan and
no oil, but you can use oil if you wish). Stir and chop as you fry, until
it's browned and in small pieces.
3.) Once the Nature's Burger is all fried up, put into a large mixing bowl,
add the tofu crumbles (if you've got 'em), the wine, spices, and raisins.
Mix well.
4.) Line pan with pastry, pour in the "beef" mixture in. (The original
recipie calls for ham and chicken pieces to be arranged on this. If you
can think of some way to simulate this, let me know!).
5.) Add a little olive or vegetable oil to the filling if desired (mine was a
little dry).
6.) Cover with top crust, crimp, and prick. Bake at 325 degrees for about
45 minutes, or until crust is browned. (Hint: If you can only get those
frozen quiche crusts with no top, cover the first one with a second one).
***
Anyways, I hope you all enjoy the recipe. If you try it, let me
know how it turned out.
In service to my gastrointestinal tract,
Tristan Clair de Lune
From: "g. koster" <g.koster at chem.leidenuniv.nl>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 22 Jan 1997 13:47:56 GMT
Organization: Gorlaeus lab. Leiden University Holland
wmarquand at aol.com (WMarquand) wrote:
>On the same note, what do the vegetarians in the society eat at Wars,
>tourneys, etc. I'm going to my first next month and am trying to decide
>whether or not to act in persona and eat meat for a day or two...
>
>Wesley MacDonald de Isla
To Monks it was forbidden to eat the meat of four feeted anamals, unless they were sick or weak.
Though this means that they did eat chicken and fish e.d.
Douwe Johannus
--
Dr. G. Koster
Leiden University, Leiden Institute of Chemistry, Gorlaeus Laboratories.
Address: Einsteinweg 55
P.O. Box 9502
2300 RA Leiden
The Netherlands.
TeleFax: +31 71 5274537
Phone: +31 71 5274513
Email: koster_g at chem.leidenuniv.nl
home adres: Dr. G. Koster
Lokhorst 69
2352 KE Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
home phone: +31 71 5418563
From: lindahl at rt.com (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 22 Jan 1997 09:06:11 -0500
In article <19970122102300.FAA27332 at ladder01.news.aol.com>,
WMarquand <wmarquand at aol.com> wrote:
>On the same note, what do the vegetarians in the society eat at Wars,
>tourneys, etc. I'm going to my first next month and am trying to decide
>whether or not to act in persona and eat meat for a day or two...
Cariadoc's Miscellany has several suggestions for tourney food which
are vegetarian. I'd get really sick if I ate meat "for a day or two",
so my personna thinks of creative excuses to not eat it. Plus, you
can tease your neighbors about food poisoning risks. Well, that's not
exactly a laughing matter, but it is nice to camp, not use any ice,
and not have to worry much about spoilage.
Greogry Blount
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 22 Jan 1997 16:32:46 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Chris Petersen <xris at forevermore.net> wrote:
>Are there any cookbooks out there for us medieval Vegies?
Look in any medieval cookbook, and keep your eye peeled for the
phrase "or if it is Lent," which will give you recipe variants
that exclude not only meat but also eggs and dairy products.
Some medieval cookbooks will actually have a separate section of Lenten
recipes, but more often the Lenten variant will be tacked onto
the end of the carnivorous one.
If you are an ovo-lacto, then you can also look for the phrase
"in Ember day," denoting a series of days on which you couldn't
eat meat but could eat eggs and dairy products, and your basic
Tarte in Embre Day is a quiche with stuff in it other than meat.
Remember that the peasantry seldom got to eat meat anyway, except
on major feast days--it was expensive--and that a large
percentage of the clergy abstained from meat year-round. Look at
any of several surviving menus for great feasts, and note how
many dishes in each course are meatless (usually, fishy), because
there would be lots of Princes of the Church attending who were
*supposed* to be abstaining.
If you don't eat fish either, you can try substituting tofu for
the fish. Reconstituted salted or dried fish was pretty bland
anyway.
So look for the words "in Lent," "in Ember Day," "for fast days,"
"for fish days," "in Quadragesima," "in jejunio," "incipit
servicium de piscibus."
And by the way. In order to keep to a vegetarian diet at events,
you do *not* have to invent a Ancient Greek Pythagorean or Hindu
persona. You just say, "I eat no flesh food, it's my penance,"
and you can then invent some amusing sins that you're supposed to
be doing penance for, or leave them guessing.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at uclink
From: DDFr at Best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:16:21 -0800
Organization: School of Law, Santa Clara University
Not eating meat is a perfectly plausible period policy. Christians were
forbidden from eating meat on Fridays, on weekdays in lent, and I believe
on a variety of other days. In addition, medieval medicine put a lot of
importance on diet (via the theory of the humours), so you might be off
meat for medical reasons. Medieval people were given penances for their
sins, which might include avoiding meat. And medieval people sometimes
voluntarily swore to do without something. So there is nothing out of
period about being a vegetarian.
Further, there are lots of meatless period dishes. In many cases there will
be a special version for a recipe specified as "lenten," with non-meat
ingredients substituting for meat. I even have a period Islamic "fake meat"
recipe using chickpea flour, although I haven't been able to make it taste
very good yet. So if you look through the period cookbooks, especially with
an eye to lenten or fastday recipes, you can find lots.
There is a sixteenth century German cookbook that starts with a bunch of
menus, classified as "in meatday" or "in fastday."
David/Cariadoc
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:56:35 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
xris at forevermore.net (Chris Petersen) wrote, regarding the necessity of
finding "vegetarian" recipes:
>I am looking for period recipes that are actually vegetarian, or period
>recipes that can be made in a vegetarian fashion.
>
>Are there any cookbooks out there for us medieval Vegies? If not, what is the proper method of going about compiling one if I can =
get enough recipes from people?
>Cyrillis Desidarius
Cyrillus,
A great many "period" sources carry a section or selection of recipes on "Lenten" cooking (dishes that were made meatless, for use during the
period of Lent). You should be able to find a great many "Friday" dishes, as well. These dishes may have included other rich ingredients (such as nuts, mushrooms, butter or rich sauces)to compensate for the "lack" of meat, or may have a cleverly disquised apearance so that one forgot the meat altogether (marbled, striped, highly colored or decorated). I suggest that you start with *any* cookbook you can get your hands on. There will always be at least a few dishes that do not require the use of meat or meat products. Most SCA cooks will have a stock of recipes they have included in their Feasts to account for the vegetarians that may come to an event. It is certainly my practice to make a feast as widely appealing as possible. It would simply be discourteous to send a guest away from my table hungry.
I would like to point out, however, that simply because a dish does
not contain meat, it is not necessarily comprised solely of vegetable
matter (this addressed to the folk who may be a little confused about
vegetarianism---and I am not necessarily an expert). Many vegetarians
will eat eggs, cheese (or any dairy product) and some will eat poultry or
fish, but not red meat. Some "meatless" dishes may contain lard (animal
fat--other fats may be substituted). Any "cookbook" you compile should
probably apeal to as many of the varities of vegetarians as you can
arrange.
As a jumping off place, try "The Good Huswife's Jewel", Thomas Dawson,
1596, reprinted by Falconwood Press (195 Colonie Street, Albany New York,
12210-2501). My copy was $6.00 several years ago. This copy of the
original contains a large section of meatless dishes that should apeal to
modern tastes (that means they will be recognisable to the populous).
Most period sources you find will be lighter on the vegetable matter
and heavier on the meat matter. This may be because everyone assumed the
knowledge of cooking simple vegetable dishes was common and widespread.
Do not let this frustrate you. The sources are out there!
Happy hunting!
Lady Aoife Finn
From: schuldy at abel.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 20 Feb 1997 20:54:22 GMT
>>: >I am looking for period recipes that are actually vegetarian, or period
>>: >recipes that can be made in a vegetarian fashion.
Lent. Lenten recipes have no meat. Those recipes abound. Check any of the
standard sources.
I have a book at home on my to-be-read list, called (IIRC) "The Hermits
Feast" about the history of vegetarianism in Europe. I cannot yet recommend
it, but since I purchased it recently in a conventional bookstore, it might
be available for you.
Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at math.harvard.edu)
From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vegetarian cooking
Date: 23 Feb 1997 03:26:45 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
I believe that the "SCA people won't eat vegetables/fish is a
vegetable" line in the KWH is a bit dated. There are usually plenty of
veggies at SCA feasts, and I never starved. Now, *low-fat* cooking is
another story...
Anyhow, aside from weapons arts, one of the things that I get out
of this is cooking. (I love to cook. People like to castigate me because,
ignoring the academic degrees and languages and literary writing, they
think I'm some species of stick jock and don't know any 'arts or sciences.'
I reply that they never let me cook a feast, did they now?)
Anyhow, one of my focii is low-fat, vegetarian cooking. Here's a
recipie from "Renaissance recipies," a popular-market book I got at the
Cloisters.
STEWED FENNEL
4 or 5 bulbs of fennel (AKA anise, finoccio).
Salt and pepper
Olive oil
Cut up the fennel. Put it in a heavy pot with a little water to
steam it. That is, heat it up real hot, cover it, turn down the heat, and
let it sit until tender. Take it out and sprinkle with olive oil, salt,
and pepper. Cheap, good, and makes your entire kitchen smell like licorice.
--Tristan
From: alxandraod at aol.com (AlxandraOD)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help
Date: 25 Feb 1997 16:31:04 GMT
Dear Jeff S.
In reply to your original question about vegetarian recipies in period --
you're not going to find a ready-made cookbook out there that is just on
medieval vegetarian food. You're going to have to cull recipies from the
numerous books out there that have various medieval recipies. Let me give
you a short list. If you can't find these books in your area, contact
Kitchen Arts & Letters in Manhattan: 212-876-5550 at 1435 Lexington Ave.,
New York, NY 10128.
Pleyn Delit by Constance B. Hieatt & Sharon Butler
(they have put out a new version that is much better researched. Get the
new one)
An Ordinance of Pottage by Constance B. Hieatt
Take A Thousand Eggs Or More by Cindy Renfrow
(2 volumes. I believe this was printed by Cindy. You can get this
through Poison Pen Press.)
In A Caliph's Kitchen by David Waines
(Medieval Arabic Cooking w/ the original recipes -- lots of good egg
and/or eggplant recipes)
You also need to get Cariadoc's Medieval compendium of cookbooks -- lots
of the original recipes that are in the above books are all collected in