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vegetarian-msg - 12/22/16


Medieval vegetarianism. Lenten foods. Also in the SCA.


NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, turnips-msg, mushrooms-msg, salads-msg, root-veg-msg, eggs-msg, dairy-prod-msg, cheese-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Feast Menus

Date: 16 Nov 1993 03:34:53 GMT

Organization: Cornell Law School


0005290822 at mcimail.COM (Robert A. Goff) wrote:



> Also, does anyone know of a period dish that would approximate a non-

> meat stew for the vegetarians among us? From the same cuisine as the

> meat dish? Thanks.


A Muzawwara (Vegetarian Dish) Beneficial for Tertian Fevers and Acute


Andalusian p. A-52 [13th c. Western Islamic]


Take boiled peeled lentils and wash in hot water several times; put in the

pot and add water without covering them; cook and then throw in pieces of

gourd, or the stems [ribs] of Swiss chard, or of lettuce and its tender

sprigs, or the flesh of cucumber or melon, and vinegar, coriander seed, a

little cumin, Chinese cinnamon, saffron and two ûqiyas of fresh oil;

balance with a little salt and cook. Taste, and if its flavor is pleasingly

balanced between sweet and sour, [good;] and if not, reinforce until it is

equalized, according to taste, and leave it to lose its heat until it is

cold and then serve.


2 c lentils  1 1/2 t cinnamon    one of the following:     1 1/2 lb butternut


5 c water     6 threads saffron          1 lb chard or beet leaves

1/4 c cider vinegar 1/4 c oil            1 lb lettuce

3/4 t ground coriander    1 t salt             2 8" cucumbers

3/4 t cumin                 melon (?)


Boil lentils about 40 minutes until they start to get mushy. Add spices and

vinegar and oil. Add one of the vegetables; leafy vegetables should be torn

up, squash or cucumbers are cut into bite-sized pieces and cooked about

10-15 minutes before being added to lentils. Cook lettuce or chard version

for about 10 minutes, until leaves are soft. Cook squash or cucumber

version about 20 minutes. Be careful not to burn during the final cooking.


Rapes in Potage [or Carrots or Parsnips]

Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7)


Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem; perboile

hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see† hem; mynce oynouns and

cast †erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with powdour douce. In the

self wise make of pastunakes and skyrwittes.


Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots;

skirrets are, according to the OED, “a species of water parsnip, formerly

much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers.” We have never found

them available in the market.


1 lb turnips, carrots, or parsnips    6 threads saffron   powder douce:       2 t


2 c chicken broth (canned, diluted)    3/4 t salt          3/8 t cinnamon

1/2 lb onions                      3/8 t ginger


Wash, peel, and quarter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are large),

cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes. If you are using

carrots or parsnips, clean them and cut them up into large bite-sized

pieces and parboil 10 minutes. Mince onions. Drain turnips, carrots, or

parsnips, and put them with onions and chicken broth in a pot and bring to

a boil. Crush saffron into about 1 t of the broth and add seasonings to

potage. Cook another 15-20 minutes, until turnips or carrots are soft to a

fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.


> Brother Crimthann

> rgoff at mcimail.com


Hope these help.



DDF2 at Cornell.Edu



From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Feast Menus

Date: 17 Nov 1993 16:46:58 GMT

Organization: The Rialto


Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.


Brother Crimthann asks,

>     Also, does anyone know of a period dish that would approximate a non-

>meat stew for the vegetarians among us? From the same cuisine as the meat

>dish? Thanks.


There are various dishes for worts or joutes (greens).  There

are several vegetable pottages (I frequently make a somewhat

different version of the one Cariadoc posted), though they

tend to look rather more like soup than stew. There are ground

bean dishes and many, many, many versions of pea soup.

None of these, really, are particularly marvelous for main

dishes, though, at least as I tend to make them. A better

option might be Tart in Ember Day, a sort of medieval onion

cheese quiche that tends to go over very well, and is reasonably

good cold.  (At least, this is fine for ovo-lactos.) If you're

interested, I have an article giving two medieval recipes for

this and a variety of ways to make it up coming out in the next

issue of the _Oak_ (Atlantia's A&S issue of the newsletter, at

the chronicler's and waiting for printing several months now);

I can send you a copy if you like.


Hope this helps!


-- Angharad/Terry



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Ken Mondschein)

Subject: Vegetarians Unite! (plus free recipe!)

Organization: University at Buffalo

Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 19:22:00 GMT


  Look, everybody! I've done something *useful*!!!


        Over Thanksgiving break, I tried a recipe for a meat-less grete

pie (which is basically a mincemeat pie). The recipe was adapted from

Baroness Angharad of the Sleeping Lion's own, so thank her, not me.

        The recipe is good, plus has the advantage of being very low in fat

and cheaper than making the stuff out of Real Dead Cow (tm). It's authentically

medieval, as well (or at least the Real Dead Cow (tm) version is), being

(according to Baroness Angharad) from a 15th century English cookbook, with

variations "served throughout the middle ages."

        The "Nature's Burger" stuff can be found in any decent supermarket,

food co-op, or health food store.




                       VIRTUAL MINCEMEAT PIE


Double pastry crust

1 box Nature's Burger

1/3 cup red wine (I used Manachevitz left over from Passover)

1/4 tsp mace (I used nutmeg, since I couldn't get mace)

1/2 tsp salt

1/8 tsp each cloves and pepper

1/2 cup raisins (optional: use mixture of dates, prunes, and currants)


***Optional: 1 box Tofu Crumbles (for texture, they're sort of like chopped

meat made from tofu. I found it at Top's, but you can use whatever you like).


***Optional: 3-5 tablespoons olive or vegetable oil (for frying in/moistening

the filling).


1.) Make the Nature's Burger mix according to the instructions on the box.

2.) Fry the mix (about a third at a time) in a pan (I used a teflon pan and

no oil, but you can use oil if you wish). Stir and chop as you fry, until

it's browned and in small pieces.

3.) Once the Nature's Burger is all fried up, put into a large mixing bowl,

add the tofu crumbles (if you've got 'em), the wine, spices, and raisins.

Mix well.

4.) Line pan with pastry, pour in the "beef" mixture in. (The original

recipie calls for ham and chicken pieces to be arranged on this. If you

can think of some way to simulate this, let me know!).

5.) Add a little olive or vegetable oil to the filling if desired (mine was a

little dry).

6.) Cover with top crust, crimp, and prick. Bake at 325 degrees for about

45 minutes, or until crust is browned. (Hint: If you can only get those

frozen quiche crusts with no top, cover the first one with a second one).




        Anyways, I hope you all enjoy the recipe. If you try it, let me

know how it turned out.


               In service to my gastrointestinal tract,

                       Tristan Clair de Lune



From: "g. koster" <g.koster at chem.leidenuniv.nl>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 22 Jan 1997 13:47:56 GMT

Organization: Gorlaeus lab. Leiden University Holland


wmarquand at aol.com (WMarquand) wrote:

>On the same note,  what do the vegetarians in the society eat at Wars,

>tourneys, etc.  I'm going to my first next month and am trying to decide

>whether or not to act in persona and eat meat for a day or two...

>Wesley MacDonald de Isla


To Monks it was forbidden to eat the meat of four feeted anamals, unless they were sick or weak.


Though this means that they did eat chicken and fish e.d.


Douwe Johannus


Dr. G. Koster

Leiden University, Leiden Institute of Chemistry, Gorlaeus Laboratories.

Address:      Einsteinweg 55  

              P.O. Box 9502

              2300 RA Leiden

              The Netherlands.

TeleFax:      +31 71 5274537

Phone:        +31 71 5274513

Email:        koster_g at chem.leidenuniv.nl

home adres:   Dr. G. Koster        

              Lokhorst 69

              2352 KE Leiderdorp

              The Netherlands

home phone:   +31 71 5418563



From: lindahl at rt.com (Greg Lindahl)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 22 Jan 1997 09:06:11 -0500


In article <19970122102300.FAA27332 at ladder01.news.aol.com>,

WMarquand <wmarquand at aol.com> wrote:


>On the same note,  what do the vegetarians in the society eat at Wars,

>tourneys, etc.  I'm going to my first next month and am trying to decide

>whether or not to act in persona and eat meat for a day or two...


Cariadoc's Miscellany has several suggestions for tourney food which

are vegetarian. I'd get really sick if I ate meat "for a day or two",

so my personna thinks of creative excuses to not eat it.  Plus, you

can tease your neighbors about food poisoning risks. Well, that's not

exactly a laughing matter, but it is nice to camp, not use any ice,

and not have to worry much about spoilage.


Greogry Blount




From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 22 Jan 1997 16:32:46 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley


Chris Petersen <xris at forevermore.net> wrote:

>Are there any cookbooks out there for us medieval Vegies?


Look in any medieval cookbook, and keep your eye peeled for the

phrase "or if it is Lent," which will give you recipe variants

that exclude not only meat but also eggs and dairy products.

Some medieval cookbooks will actually have a separate section of Lenten

recipes, but more often the Lenten variant will be tacked onto

the end of the carnivorous one.


If you are an ovo-lacto, then you can also look for the phrase

"in Ember day," denoting a series of days on which you couldn't

eat meat but could eat eggs and dairy products, and your basic

Tarte in Embre Day is a quiche with stuff in it other than meat.


Remember that the peasantry seldom got to eat meat anyway, except

on major feast days--it was expensive--and that a large

percentage of the clergy abstained from meat year-round.  Look at

any of several surviving menus for great feasts, and note how

many dishes in each course are meatless (usually, fishy), because

there would be lots of Princes of the Church attending who were

*supposed* to be abstaining.


If you don't eat fish either, you can try substituting tofu for

the fish.  Reconstituted salted or dried fish was pretty bland



So look for the words "in Lent," "in Ember Day," "for fast days,"

"for fish days," "in Quadragesima," "in jejunio," "incipit

servicium de piscibus."


And by the way.  In order to keep to a vegetarian diet at events,

you do *not* have to invent a Ancient Greek Pythagorean or Hindu

persona.  You just say, "I eat no flesh food, it's my penance,"

and you can then invent some amusing sins that you're supposed to

be doing penance for, or leave them guessing.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California

PRO DEO ET REGE                                     djheydt at uclink



From: DDFr at Best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:16:21 -0800

Organization: School of Law, Santa Clara University


Not eating meat is a perfectly plausible period policy. Christians were

forbidden from eating meat on Fridays, on weekdays in lent, and I believe

on a variety of other days. In addition, medieval medicine put a lot of

importance on diet (via the theory of the humours), so you might be off

meat for medical reasons. Medieval people were given penances for their

sins, which might include avoiding meat. And medieval people sometimes

voluntarily swore to do without something. So there is nothing out of

period about being a vegetarian.


Further, there are lots of meatless period dishes. In many cases there will

be a special version for a recipe specified as "lenten," with non-meat

ingredients substituting for meat. I even have a period Islamic "fake meat"

recipe using chickpea flour, although I haven't been able to make it taste

very good yet. So if you look through the period cookbooks, especially with

an eye to lenten or fastday recipes, you can find lots.


There is a sixteenth century German cookbook that starts with a bunch of

menus, classified as "in meatday" or "in fastday."





From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:56:35 GMT

Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.


xris at forevermore.net (Chris Petersen) wrote, regarding the necessity of

finding "vegetarian" recipes:


>I am looking for period recipes that are actually vegetarian, or period

>recipes that can be made in a vegetarian fashion.

>Are there any cookbooks out there for us medieval Vegies?  If not, what is the proper method of going about compiling one if I can =

get enough recipes from people?  

>Cyrillis Desidarius




  A great many "period" sources carry a section or selection of recipes on "Lenten" cooking (dishes that were made meatless, for use during the

period of Lent). You should be able to find a great many "Friday" dishes, as well. These dishes may have included other rich ingredients (such as nuts, mushrooms, butter or rich sauces)to compensate for the "lack" of meat, or may have a cleverly disquised apearance so that one forgot the meat altogether (marbled, striped, highly colored or decorated). I suggest that you start with *any* cookbook you can get your hands on. There will always be at least a few dishes that do not require the use of meat or meat products. Most SCA cooks will have a stock of recipes they have included in their Feasts to account for the vegetarians that may come to an event. It is certainly my practice to make a feast as widely appealing as possible. It would simply be discourteous to send a guest away from my table hungry.


   I would like to point out, however, that simply because a dish does

not contain meat, it is not necessarily comprised solely of vegetable

matter (this addressed to the folk who may be a little confused about

vegetarianism---and I am not necessarily an expert). Many vegetarians

will eat eggs, cheese (or any dairy product) and some will eat poultry or

fish, but not red meat. Some "meatless" dishes may contain lard (animal

fat--other fats may be substituted). Any "cookbook" you compile should

probably apeal to as many of the varities of vegetarians as you can



   As a jumping off place, try "The Good Huswife's Jewel", Thomas Dawson,

1596, reprinted by Falconwood Press (195 Colonie Street, Albany New York,

12210-2501). My copy was $6.00 several years ago. This copy of the

original contains a large section of meatless dishes that should apeal to

modern tastes (that means they will be recognisable to the populous).


   Most period sources you find will be lighter on the vegetable matter

and heavier on the meat matter. This may be because everyone assumed the

knowledge of cooking simple vegetable dishes was common and widespread.

Do not let this frustrate you. The sources are out there!


Happy hunting!

Lady Aoife Finn    



From: schuldy at abel.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 20 Feb 1997 20:54:22 GMT


>>: >I am looking for period recipes that are actually vegetarian, or period

>>: >recipes that can be made in a vegetarian fashion.


Lent.  Lenten recipes have no meat.  Those recipes abound.  Check any of the

standard sources.


I have a book at home on my to-be-read list, called (IIRC) "The Hermits

Feast" about the history of vegetarianism in Europe.  I cannot yet recommend

it, but since I purchased it recently in a conventional bookstore, it might

be available for you.




Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at math.harvard.edu)



From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period vegetarian cooking

Date: 23 Feb 1997 03:26:45 GMT

Organization: University at Buffalo


        I believe that the "SCA people won't eat vegetables/fish is a

vegetable" line in the KWH is a bit dated. There are usually plenty of

veggies at SCA feasts, and I never starved. Now, *low-fat* cooking is

another story...

        Anyhow, aside from weapons arts, one of the things that I get out

of this is cooking. (I love to cook. People like to castigate me because,

ignoring the academic degrees and languages and literary writing, they

think I'm some species of stick jock and don't know any 'arts or sciences.'

I reply that they never let me cook a feast, did they now?)

        Anyhow, one of my focii is low-fat, vegetarian cooking. Here's a

recipie from "Renaissance recipies," a popular-market book I got at the



                STEWED FENNEL


        4 or 5 bulbs of fennel (AKA anise, finoccio).

        Salt and pepper

        Olive oil


        Cut up the fennel. Put it in a heavy pot with a little water to

steam it. That is, heat it up real hot, cover it, turn down the heat, and

let it sit until tender. Take it out and sprinkle with olive oil, salt,

and pepper. Cheap, good, and makes your entire kitchen smell like licorice.





From: alxandraod at aol.com (AlxandraOD)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian Cooking - help

Date: 25 Feb 1997 16:31:04 GMT


Dear Jeff S.


In reply to your original question about vegetarian recipies in period --

you're not going to find a ready-made cookbook out there that is just on

medieval vegetarian food.  You're going to have to cull recipies from the

numerous books out there that have various medieval recipies.  Let me give

you a short list.  If you can't find these books in your area, contact

Kitchen Arts & Letters in Manhattan: 212-876-5550 at 1435 Lexington Ave.,

New York, NY 10128.


Pleyn Delit   by Constance B. Hieatt & Sharon Butler

(they have put out a new version that is much better researched.  Get the

new one)


An Ordinance of Pottage  by Constance B. Hieatt


Take A Thousand Eggs Or More  by Cindy Renfrow

(2 volumes.  I believe this was printed by Cindy. You can get this

through Poison Pen Press.)


In A Caliph's Kitchen  by David Waines

(Medieval Arabic Cooking w/ the original recipes -- lots of good egg

and/or eggplant recipes)


You also need to get Cariadoc's Medieval compendium of cookbooks -- lots

of the original recipes that are in the above books are all collected in

his one book.  I know he's on the web somewhere. Search Cariadoc.


This should get you started.  Good luck!


In Service to The Dream,

Alexandra of Dragonford

Master Pepperer

The Pepperer's Guild of The East Kingdom



From: "Deb Hense" <debh at microware.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Vegetarian

Date: 28 Feb 1997 20:50:40 GMT

Organization: Microware Systems Corp


ashoni at aol.com wrote:

> There is a book "The Heretic's Feast" which is about historical

> vegetarianism.  (Sorry, can't recall the author's name)


I just got my Jessica's Biscuit cookbook catalog today:


The Heretic's Feast by Spencer


lively, comprehensive study of vegetarianism since prehistoric times.

Discusses religious, social and philosophical aspects. Not a cookbook.


Hardback - only $14.98 (u.s. dollars)


Order number is FC-525


In the US of A call: 1-900-878-4264.


If you want more info than that, you'll have to ask.


Kateryn de Develyn

debh at microware.com



From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 19:50:31 -0400

Subject: Re: intro


gail s howell wrote:


> BTW, I am looking for some good period vegetarian dishes from Brittain,

> anyone know any besides spinach and mushrooms?


> Rowanne


Caboges (Two Fifteenth-Century Cookbooks), Fenkel in Soppes (Forme of

Cury), various sallets, Sowpes Dorry (also FoC).


I believe Caboges calls for some meat stock, but it sould be possible to

produce the dish in a Lenten version. I believe the others are purely






From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Subject: sca-cooks Re: intro

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:03:28 -0400 (EDT)


> BTW, I am looking for some good period vegetarian dishes from Brittain,

> anyone know any besides spinach and mushrooms?


Tarts for Ember-day, basically an onion quiche. If you get good onions

(esp. Vidalias), it actually has a sweet flavor.


Crustade Lombarde, another custardy pie-filling whose meat-day version

is largely beef marrow.  The fast-day version calls for almond milk in

place of the milk, and chopped dates, figs, and prunes in place of the

beef marrow.  I've made this and served it successfully to non-SCA



I'm at work right now, and don't remember offhand which sources those

come from, but both of them are late medieval (probably 15th-c.) English.


                                      Steve / Joshua



From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Subject: sca-cooks Re: intro

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:24:52 -0400 (EDT)


> BTW, I am looking for some good period vegetarian dishes from Brittain,

> anyone know any besides spinach and mushrooms?


Oooh, gosh, my books are far away and packed, and I CANNOT remember the

author... but there is a period source that was written by an Italian who

moved to England at the end of period, and found that they didn't eat enough

vegetables.  He wrote a treatise for the English on how to cook vegetables.

And it was barely in period, if I recall.


What, oh what, was his NAME!  Darned memory. Good book, recently in print

in the US... Castelvetro!  That was the man.





From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

To: Mark Harris

Subject: Re: sca-cooks Re- intro

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:50:18 -0400 (EDT)


Thanks for this lead. Can you get me a more complete bibliograpic

  description? I'd like to add this to my vegetarian-msg file and a

  more complete referance would help others.


The book is packed away (we are in the midst of remodelling) but the Harvard

online library has:

AUTHOR: Castelvetro, Giacomo, 1546-1616?

TITLE: [Brieve racconto di tutte le radici, di tutte l'erbe e di tutti

         i frutti, che crudi o cotti in Italia si mangiano.  English]

         The fruit, herbs & vegetables of Italy : an offering to Lucy,

         Countess of Bedford / Giacomo Castelvetro ; translated with an

         introduction by Gillian Riley ; foreword by Jane Grigson.

PUB. INFO: London, England : New York, N.Y., USA : Viking ; [London] :

         British Museum, Natural History, 1989.

DESCRIPTION: 175 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 26 cm.


Bibliofind and Amazon have it as well... with the ISBN being 067082724X


I cannot get into the Library of Congress right now.


(References: telnet://hollis.harvard.edu, http://www.bibliofind.com,

http://www.amazon.com, telnet://locis.loc.gov)





From: "Greg Lindahl" <lindahl at pbm.com>

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:14:20 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Vegetarian dishes


> I have an excellent recipie for lentils that I have used as a vegetarian dish

> in the past.  It is not a period recipie, but it tastes good and can

> presented in a period manner.  If you think this would be suitable I would be

> more than happy to post it for you.


Cariadoc's Miscellany has a recipe for lentils from the al-Andalusi

manuscript. I actually recently added a search function to various pages

of mine, so you can do things like search for all instances of

"lentils" in the Miscellany.




[ the recipe is # 25 in the "Islamic with Veggies" section, "Cooked

Dish of Lentils". ]


Gregory Blount



From: Leila Mohajerin <lmohajer at email.unc.edu>

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:20:25 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - Vegetarian dishes


Greetings and Well Wishes on Your Grand Undertaking!


While I am not a vegetarian, I have lots of friends who are, and have done

lots of cooking for them. If it is not in conflict with any theme, many

Mediterranean dishes are either without meat, or easily substituting other

stuff.  They also are usually quite nice on hot days in August.  Some

ideas (by country of origin) are:

Elizabethan England:Artichoke pie

        Beet tart

        Turnip Stuffed with apples

        Kidney Bean Tart

        spinach date fritters

        Parsnips and marigold in orange juice

Spain:        Gazpacho-tomato and cucumber based, chilled

        several omlettes- Tortilla de Patatas is potato based

                       -Huevos a la flamenca

        sauteed artichokes

        soups (Garbanzos, or other beans)



Portugal: Omeleta de tomate

        Pudim de pao (Bread pudding)


        Caldo verde (green cabbage soup)

Italy: Zabalione (wine custard)

      Pasta (my sources are not definite, but believe that pasta, as in

paste or dough, did exist in ancient Roman cusine in the form of a noodle

called Laganum, usually served with a fish sauce or with a mixture of

herbs, grated cheese, and olive oil-Pesto!)

        Risotto alla milanese (a rice dish)

        Mozzarella in Carrozza

        Caponata alla Cosenza (Eggplant and vegetable Relish)

Greek:        Tiropetes _cheese-filled phyllo pastries

        Rizogalo -rice pudding


Then there is the Middle Eastern cuisine with Falafel, and many other

veggie things

One way you can please both your vegetarian and meateaters is the have a

dish that is based on rice, with several different types of toppings, one

for each type of diet.  Since you can make this is large amounts, it is

suitable for feasts.


If the "fairly picky group" is not vegan, you do not have to avoid the

dairy products.


I realize that I also did not include any actual recipes.  If any I have

refered to interest you, please write back.  I will be happy to type them



I hope that some of this will be of help.  


- -Sveva



Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:18:53 -0400 (EDT)

From: Rooscc at aol.com

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: medieval vegetarianism


Broad beans were a staple and there were other legumes

including vetches. Legumes and grain (wheat, rye, oats, and/

or barley) together make up a complimentary protein.

The bread of the lower class included beans as well as

grains. Eggs are the most usable protein and dairy products

also complement grains, but both were seasonal, except

for cheese and to a lesser extent butter (ways of storing

dairy produce).


Vegetarianism was practiced in monastic houses under

a strict rule. For examples, look in earlier times, although

there were sporadic reforms throughout the period.

More common was the avoidance of meat, which did not

include restricting fish and at certain periods, fowl.

Earlier studies seem to underestimate the amount of meat

in the "normal" diet of the lower classes--this is

currently being reevaluated.



Middle Kingdom



Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:15:36 -0700 (PDT)

From: Sarah Elmore <psu08000 at odin.cc.pdx.edu>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: medieval vegetarianism (fwd)


On Fri, 9 May 1997, barbara shuwarger wrote:


> I believe the 12th-13th century Cathar heretics Of Occitania/Southern

> France were vegetarians. I will check to make sure.


> Helisenne


The Catherists (Albigenisians) were not vegetarians. The "perfecti" did not

eat anything that was created due to sexual reproduction. However

according to the Catherists the following were not created by

reproduction: fish and vegetables. I think that there might be one or two

other things that qualify. This is from a book titled "Montiaue" sp?. I

have it at home if you you want a better reference.


Sarah Fabritzio




Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:30:01 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - vegetarian dish help please


At 8:36 PM -0400 10/19/97, Robert Beaulieu wrote:

>        I am preparing a small medieval home feast (about 12 persons)

>and I desperately need help...

>   I need about 3 different recipes that are period, that would be main

>dishes for vegetarians, that would be both a pealing and side dishes  to

>non vegetarians, and yet would not be overfilling for those that would

>eat it along with meat...


The Andalusian Dish of Lentils in the _Miscellany_ qualifies. The eggplant

pancakes probably do. The various pasta a cheese dishes (Losynges, Macrows,

etc.) do if your vegetarians will eat cheese. So does Fried Dish of Broad



I think all of them are in the webbed version of the _Miscellany_,

reachable from my web page.


David Friedman

Professor of Law

Santa Clara University



Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:23:41 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [Mid] Feasts


>The only dish that was not period was the Lentil balls. However, it was

>made with only period ingredients as I was trying to use them to replace

>the meatballs.


A period problem as well. You might want to look at the Counterfeit

(Vegetarian) IsfÓriy‚ of Garbanzos in the Andalusian cookbook. Also, note

that Chiquart provides a whole parallel menu of fast day dishes.





Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 13:17:48 -0500

From: Dottie Elliott <macdj at onr.com>

Subject: Re: SC - recipes


Cariadoc has a good Lentil dish recipe in his miscellany collection

online. He also has 2 spinach/cheese pie recipes, a Fried Gourd with

Garlic Sauce recipe, and Macrows recipe all of which I have made for






Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:09:32 +1100 (EST)

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>

Subject: Re: SC - recipes (vegetarian)


A barley recipe I have used from the British museum cookbook. I don't

know how period it really is, but it seems OK to me for peri-oid. Any

comments world?


Barley, parsnips, carrots, dates, milk, saffron, honey, ginger, nutmeg,

cinnamon. Cook it up. It comes out like porridge with flavoured bits -

sweet but very nice.


(I don't have the actual recipe in front of me, but nor have I on the

dozen or so occasions i have made it)


Charles Ragnar



Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:33:59 +1100 (EST)

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>

Subject: SC - Barley recipe - Amyndoun Seaw


A vegetable gruel. This is the recipe requested - it is not from British

Museum COokbook, as I thought. I have a very faded photocopy of it, on

page 186, under flore frittours. Ring any bells anywhere?


2 c amyndoun or wheatgerm or buckwheat groats or 'gritty' cereal

2 Tablespoons butter

4 c milk

1 c fresh carrots, sliced 1/2" thick rounds

1/2 c parsnip, diced

1 cup raisins

8 - 10 prunes pitted

1/2 tsp Salt

1/4 tsp ginger poweder, connamon

1/2 tsp dried basil crushed or grated candied ginger

6 Tbs honey

3 Tbs purple-plum preserve


in deep covered skillet melt butter and toast the cereal for 2-3 minutes

over low flame.

Mix all other ingredients except basil/candied ginger, honey, preserves.

Add mixture to toasated cereal, simmer slowly for 20 mins.


Spoon into bowls, ad the garnish stuff (=the rest)


Source unknown...





Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:15:15 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - recipes (vegetarian)


Hi all from Anne-Marie

My favorite (so far! :)) vegetarian documented period recipe is frumenty

(barley), espeicially when served with a big scoop of funges on top.


If you have specific questions on my reconstrucions, feel free to ask away.

Oh, and if you do use these, all I ask is that you let me know (I get a

buzz off knowing people are eating my food all over the place! :))




FUNGES (Forme of Curye #12, c. 1399)

Take Funges and pare hem clene, and dyce hem; take leke and shred hym small

and do hym to seeth in gode broth. Colour it with safroun and do therinne

powdour fort.


1 lb mushrooms

2 leek, white and tender green bits only

2 cups Swansons brand vegetable broth

1 pinch saffron

3/4 tsp powder forte*


Wash the veggies, slice the leek finely and cut the mushrooms into chunks.

Add saffron to the broth and bring it to a boil. Add the leek, mushrooms

and spices to the broth. Simmer 20 minutres or until liquid is mostly gone.

Remove from the heat and serve with frumenty.

Serves 6.


*Powder forte:

1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper

1 1/2 Tbsp ginger

1 Tbsp cinnamon

1/2 tsp clove

1/2 tsp grains of paradise, ground in a mortar and pestle (if you can't

find grains, add a 50/50 mix of ginger and black pepper)

Mix and store in an airtight container away from light and heat.


FRUMENTY (Diuersa Servicia #1, c. 1399)

For to make furmenty. Nym clene wete & bray it in a morter wel, that the

holys gon al of, & seyt yt til ty breste; & nym yt up & lat it kele. And

nyum fayre fresch broth & swete mylk of almandys or swete mylk of kyne and

temper yt al. & nym the yolkys of eyryn & saffron & do thereto. Boyle it a

lityl & set yt adoun, & messe yt forthe wyth fat venysoun & fresch motoun.


1 cup pearl barley

2 3/4 cups veggie broth

1/4 cup milk

pinch saffron

1 egg


Stir barley into broiling broth, along with saffron. Cover pan and cook

over very low heat 30-50 minutes. Stir in beaten egg. Stir over very low

heat for a few minutes before serving.

Serves 6.



Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:36:49 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - help?


At 2:03 PM -0700 4/2/98, Sabia wrote:

>Greetings, I will be doing a feast at the end of this month, but I am

>still lacking a vegitarian receipe for my forth course,  I was hoping to

>locate something that was red or themed toward fire, ...  Also  is

>there a documented receipe for saffron rice?


For the first, how about


Torta from Red Chickpeas

Platina p. 142 (book 8)


Grind up red chickpeas that have been well cooked with their own juice and

with a little rosewater. When they have been ground, pass them through a

strainer into a bowl. Add a pound of almonds so ground up that it is not a

chore to pass them through the strainer, two ounces of raisins, three or

four figs ground up at the same time. And besides this, add an ounce of

pine kernels coarsely ground, and as much sugar and rosewater as you need,

and just so much cinnamon and ginger; and blend. Put the mixture into a

well-greased pan with the pastry crust on the bottom. There are those who

add starch or pike eggs, so that this torta is more firm; when it is

cooked, put it almost above the fire to make it more colored. It should be

thin and sprinkled with sugar and rosewater. [end of original]


1 15 oz can chickpeas, w/ liquid        1 oz pine nuts

3/8 c water     1/2 c sugar     2 t more sugar

1 lb almonds    1/8 c rosewater a few drops more rosewater

2 oz raisins    1 t cinnamon    pastry for 2 9" pie crusts

4 figs  1/2 t ginger


Grind almonds finely, but not to dust. Chop pine nuts coarsely. Grind

chickpeas in a food processor with the liquid from the can, then grind

raisins and figs. Stir these and the sugar, rosewater, extra water,

cinnamon, and ginger together. The pie crust can be rolled out and put on a

10"x15" cookie sheet or it can be made into two 9" pie shells. The filling

is spread on top; it will be thicker if made as two pies. Mix extra sugar

and rosewater together and sprinkle on top. Bake 30 to 40 minutes for the

cookie-sheet version, or 50-60 minutes for the pie version, in a 375° oven

until golden brown. [from the _Miscellany_]


I don't know if it is "themed toward fire" but I suspect sugar and dried

fruit, at least, are of a hot and dry nature by period theory of the humors.


Elizabeth/Betty Cook



Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:00:36 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - meat days and fast days - MIXED?


Master Chiquart, in describing how to do a very elaborate feast for a huge

number of people (Du Fait de Cuisine, early 15th century, Savoy, webbed on

my site), makes it clear that there will be some guests who are not eating

meat for one reason or another, and suitable dishes should be provided for







Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:54:43 EST

From: CONNECT at aol.com

Subject: SC - Vegetable Tarte from Goodman of Paris pg 278


I do not have the original text from the Goodman of Paris cookbook, but this

tarte should be found on page 278 if you have the book.

- ------------

This receipe was redacted from Goodman of Paris by dona Dulcinea Maria von

Muhlberg y Aguilar, of the Middle Kingdom.


1/2 cup mustard greens

1/2 cup swiss chard

1/2 cup fresh parsley

1/2 cup spinach

1/4 cup dried chervil (or 1/2 cup fresh)

1 tsp fennel seeds

1&1/2 tsp peppercorns

1/2 cup parmesan cheese--grated

1 cup cheddar cheese--grated

7 eggs beaten

pastry for two single crust pies


Heat oven to 400 degress. Line two 9" pie tins. Wash, pat dry, devein and

finely chop the greens. Beat eggs. Stir in all ingredients except 1/4 cup

parmesan cheese. Pour into pie tins. Sprinkle tops with reserved parmesan

cheese. Bake at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Turn down heat to 350 degress

and cook for 15 minutes, or until eggs are completely cooked.


serves 16


note: This receipe calls for beet tops, which I have substitued with mustard,

chard and spinach (these are all mentioned at various points in the


- ---------------------


As stated earlier, these pies are even better if you reheat them. So, I have

always made them in advance, frozen them and then reheated them for 15 minutes

at approx. 400 degrees before serving. I'd suggest covering the crust of the

pies when baking, as they can get very dark if left exposed.


It's important to put the greens into the egg mixture and then ladle that

mixture into the tins. The one time I goofed and put the greens into the

shells and poured the egg and cheese mixture on them, the texture was off

considerably. I grind the peppercorns very coarsely, but leave the fennel

seeds whole.


It is my opinion that this dish is great for vegetarians who will eat eggs and

cheese. Be sure to use a pie shell made with vegetable shortening. I've served

this as a main dish for vegetarians and as a side dish for carnivors, and had

very little returned to the kitchen.


Your humble servant,

Rosalyn MacGregor

(Pattie Rayl)



Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:12:59 -0600

From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - new recipe


Vegetarian Skirrets, Rapes and Pasternakes*

Redacted by L. Allison Poinvillars de Tours  This is similar to the

recipe redacted by Cariadoc and Elizabeth, using the broth, on their web



Forme of Cury, #7.

Hieatt, Constance & Sharon Butler. CURYE ON INGLYSCH. Oxford   University

Press.  1985.   ISBN 0 19 722409 1


Rapes in potage.  Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene;

quarter hem; perboile hem, take hem vp.  Cast hem in a gode broth and

seeth hem; mynce oynouns and cast therto safroun and salt, and messe it

forth with powdour douce.  In the self wise make of pasturnakes and



Turnips in broth.  Take turnips and peel, and wash.  Cut in quarters and

parboil, drain.  Simmer until tender in a rich broth; add minced onions,

saffron and salt.  Sprinkle with sweet powders when dishing up.  Cook

parsnips and skirrets the same way.


4 large carrots                 4 large parsnips,

5 medium turnips                2 large onions

1 1/2 C. water          1/2 C. white wine

1 Tblsp. olive oil              2 Tblsp. honey

1/2 tsp. powder douce  (sugar, ginger, cinnamon, cloves)


Parboil cleaned, diced turnips and parsnips, (parsnips need longest

cooking) and drain.  In place of meat broth, use a cooking liquid of

water, wine, oil and honey.  Recipe #9, Chebolace, says to use water and

oil in place of broth on a fish day.  Plain water and oil had little

flavor and was not rich enough, so I added the wine, and the honey, 1 T.

at a time, to get a pleasing combination.  Cook minced onions (needed

longer cooking) in non-meat broth, add saffron, and the powder douce so

that it has time to cook into the vegetables, again because the broth is

not used, and neither was salt, for original cooking.  Add cleaned, diced

carrots and cook.  Skirrets are not available commercially.  When carrots

are nearly cooked, add turnips and parsnips, simmer until done, removing

lid towards end to cook down most of liquid.


*The part of the skirrets is played today by carrots.


Comments welcome, especially from vegetarians. Would you be pleased to

see this dish at a feast?



allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA

Kingdom of Aethelmearc



Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:18:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - A Dilemma on what to cook for Dinner-HELP!


Lady Elisabeth of Pendarvis wrote:

> SOOOOO, my dilemma:  Do I cook a medieval dinner with meat for everyone and

> once again cook separately for the two vegetarians?  Do I cook a medieval or

> period-like dinner that is vegetarian (if so suggestions welcome)?


You might try doing a vegetarian main dish/thick pottage to which meat

can be added by the carnivores. An example would be joutes or porrey

(greens) cooked with butter or almond milk, without stock or smoked

meat, but with bacon or ham, or whatever, on the side. Another

possibility might be pease pottage done the same way, or cabbage. I

usually do lunches this way for events.





Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:40:25 -0500

From: upsxdls at okstate.edu

Subject: Re: SC - A Dilemma on what to cook for Dinner-HELP!


I tried to keep out of this thread, but I can't. I'm a carnivore, I'm also

a cook.  I cook for a household in my Shire at events.  We have a couple of

ovo-lacto vegetarians.  Here is what I did to accomodate everyone with a

minimum of extra work.  I don't even pretend these items are period.


First course:  Sourdough & Sauerkraut Breads with Herbed Cream Cheese

        (OK for both groups)

Second Course:  Garlic Chicken, rice and honey carrots

        (I cooked the rice in vegetable broth instead of chicken stock)

Third Course:  Bratwurst in Beer, Sauteed Cabbage, stewed apples and bread

        (I used vegetable oil and vegetable broth in the cabbage, omitting            

            sausage called for in the recipe)


Everyone was so stuffed, no one missed dessert. Thank goodness.  Next

time, I'm going to make egg pies and mushroom pasties as entree dishes.  I

know I'll repeat the breads & herbed cream cheese, they went over so well.

I always try to accomodate vegetarians, folks with allergies, or something

someone "just doesn't like."  One member, in particular, only ate corn, no

other vegetables.  She tried the honey carrots and went back for seconds.



When my house started camping together, we agreed food costs would be

evenly divided among the household.  Even though the vegetarians wouldn't

eat the meat, they could eat more than enough of everything else.  We have

some folks who don't eat enough to keep a bird alive, while others seem to

be bottomless pits.  There's no way to make sharing food costs equitable.

Anyway, I believe it's only polite to remember someone else's food

orientation, keeping it in mind while menu planning.


Lady Liadnan (Leanna) of Sparrowhaven

Shire Hospitaler

Member of Merry Mucians of Mooneschadowe

Member House of Dancing Lions

Shire of Mooneschadowe (Stillwater)

Ansteorra (Oklahoma)



Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:13:37 -0400 (EDT)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Meatless alternatives, was: SC - Questions: _Art, Culture & Cuisine...


Edward Long-hair wrote:

>* Finally, has anyone got a list of recipes which specify what changes

>can be made to make them suitable for a non-meat day? I'm after some

>period guidelines as to what to do when adapting recipes for vegetarians.


For medieval English recipes, two rules seem to be that broth is replaced by

almond milk and olive or other vegetable oil, and grease likewise replaced

by vegetable oil. I take this to imply that they weren't in the habit of

skimming all the fat off their broths.


If the broth was cooked without starch, then the almond milk that replaces

it should not be too thick - otherwise it could curdle.


Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon



Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:09:48 -0400 (EDT)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Re: SC - It's Harvest Time


Brangwayna wrote:

> ... The recipe just specifies "good broth"; I

>used vegetable broth because I wanted it to be a vegetarian dish. ...


If you'd like to try period-style vegetarian cooking, consider substituting

almond milk (and perhaps a little olive oil) for the broth. There are some

recipes that seem to indicate that this was a fairly usual practice, such as

"appulmose," no. II 35 in _Curye_on_Inglysch_. But I don't recall ever

seeing a period reference to vegetable "broth."


Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon



Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:08:34 -0000

From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>

Subject: Re: SC - A question on Cookbook and Projects


        Allison,     allilyn at juno.com wrote:

        <snip>. There is a book on the history of vegetarianism in period, _The

        Heretic's Feast_, by Colin Spencer, University Press of New England,

        Hanover & London, 1993.  


I just bought this book myself this weekend. The woman I got it off said

apart from a very good explanation of vegetarian dietary philosophies (from

Roman times onwards), it finally helped her to understand the difference

between the various medieval Christian sects - so she recommended it on two






Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:51:15 -0500

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: SC - A milestone, and a comment on cooking without meat


I'm feeling somewhat pleased with myself.  I have just finished the rough

draft of de Nola's chapter on meat dishes -- 179 recipes!! -- and have

begun the Lenten section.  As there are only 64 Lenten recipes,  many

of them short, I have high hopes of finishing the translation sometime

before the end of the current geological epoch. :-)


The introduction to the next chapter contains an interesting remark

about adapting meat dishes for Lenten cooking. De Nola says:


"Although the victuals that you can make for meat days are infinite,

many of them can be made in Lent, because in the chapters on those

victuals where I say to dissolve them with meat broth, those sauces or

pottages can be dissolved with salt and oil and water, but first you have

to give it a boil.  And in this manner it is as good as meat broth if it is

well tempered with salt and if the oil is very fine, and in this manner,

many victuals which are put forth for meat days can be made in Lent."


Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)



Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

From: cclark at vicon.net

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about medieval food! :)


Anne-Marie wrote:

>the twist this year is they want a vegetarian/vegan dinner.


Medieval vegan feast. How odd. (understatement alert!)


How very odd.


Well, I can think of a few recipes that fit the bill.


Makke: hulled, mashed fava beans with a little red wine (a nice chianti,

perhaps?) topped with onions fried brown. (There are other recipes for

beans, but they often call for some bacon or something on the side.)


Pottage of rice: rice porridge cooked with almond milk, sugar and saffron.


Spynoches yfryed: spinach blanched, drained, sauteed in oil, and sprinkled

liberally with sweet spices.


Sallet: garden cress, spinach and/or leaf lettuce, with miscellaneous green

herbs, green garlic, onions, etc., in oil and vinegar.


Rapey: figs and raisins cooked with wine, mashed and strained, and then

cooked with rice flour or other starch, pepper and (sometimes) other spices.


Nysebek/mincebek/mistembec: Fried batter sprinkled with sugar or dipped in

honey. The batter can be made with white flour and/or wheat starch, water or

almond milk, and ale-barm/baking yeast or sourdough.


The foregoing are all from _Curye on Inglysch_ by Hieatt and Butler. There

are more where these came from, and of course other recipes that can be

found in other sources. Though in those days most of these would have been

regarded as side dishes and sweets/desserts, to be served at a meal where

the main foods are flesh or fish.


Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark



Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:19:00 -0600

From: "Christi Rigby" <crigby at uswest.net>

Subject: RE: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about medieval food! :)


I have nothing to do today (except sew my fingers to the bone which I am

procrastinating about) so I went to the Miscellany, and some books I have

and found the following:


Mustard Greens - Anthimus

Cress in Lent with Milk or Almonds - Menagier

Lenten foyles - Ordinance of Potage

Fried Gourd - Platina

Funges (using veggie broth) - Forme of Cury

Perre - Two Fifteenth Century

Makke - Form of Curry

Fried Broad Beans - Platina (using the "or else fry them well rubbed with

oil" version)

To Make a Tarte of Spinach - Proper Newe Booke

Recipe of Eggplant Pancakes - al-Andalusi

Badinjan Muhassa - ibn al-Mahdi's cookbook

Cooked Dish of lentils - al-Andalusi

A Muzawwara - Andalusian

Adas - Ibn al-Mabrad

Isfanakh Mutajjan - al-Baghdadi

Asparagus - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Asparagus - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine (recipe 2)

Favourite Broad Beans - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Green Cabbage - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Tender Chick Peas with Almond Milk - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Fennel and Leek - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Fried Gourds - The Original Mediterranean Cuisine

Leeks - T.O.M.C.

Dish of Onions - T.O.M.C.

On Preparing a salad of several greens - Platina - T.O.M.C.

Mushrooms of Sauce - T.O.M.C.

Of Small Leaves, and Fennel - T.O.M.C

Apple Fritters for lent - T.O.M.C.

Rice with Almond Milk - T.O.M.C

Quinces Boiled in a Pot - T.O.M.C.

Quinces - T.O.M.C.

Angel's Food - T.O.M.C.

Quince Paste - T.O.M.C

Candied Orange Peel - T.O.M.C.

Figs with Rose Petals - T.O.M.C.

To Prepare Salad for Celery - The Sensible Cook (recipes from 1609)

To Prepare a Salad of Artichokes - The Sensible Cook

To prepare all Kinds of cooked Salads - The Sensible Cook

About Asparagus - T.S.C.

To Make an Apple-taert - T.S.C.

To make and Apple-taert in yet another way - T.S.C.

To make a Cherry Taert - T.S.C.

To make a Spinach-taert the color green - T.S.C.

To candy green Walnuts - T.S.C

Lots of misc. candied fruit recipes - T.S.C.

Lots of misc. preserved fruit recipes - T.S.C.


These are all Vegan, no meats, no cheese, no eggs.





Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)


Chiquart's quinces--vegan


70.  Again, quinces in pastry: and to give understanding to him who

should prepare them let him arrange that he has his fair and good quinces

and then let him clean them well and properly and then make a narrow hole

on top and remove the seeds and what they are wrapped in, and let him

take care that he does not break through on the bottom or anywhere else;

and, this being done, put them to boil in a fair and clean cauldron or

pot in fair water and, being thus cooked, take them out onto fair and

clean boards to drain and put them upside down without cutting them up.

And then let him go to the pastry-cooks and order from them the little

crusts of the said pastries to put into each of the said little crusts

three quinces or four or more. And when the said little crusts are made

fill the holes in the said quinces with very good sugar, then arrange

them in the said little crusts and cover and put to cook in the oven;

and, being cooked enough, let them be served.


Core and seed quinces without breaking through far end.  Simmer until

almost tender, drain upside down.  Stuff openings with brown sugar, wrap

in filo, brush with melted butter, bake til golden brown.   APdeT  2/99



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)


Chiquart's chickpeas--vegan


76. Again syseros: and to give understanding to him who will prepare the

syseros let him take his chick-peas and pick them over grain by grain

such that there remains nothing but the chick-peas themselves, and then

wash them in three or four changes of lukewarm water and put them to

boil; and, being boiled, let him remove them from this water and put in

other fresh water and put back to boil and, being boiled put them to rest

in the said pot until the next day; and when the next day comes drain the

water off them and put in again other fresh water and put to boil with a

very little salt, almond oil, and parsley together with its roots well

picked over and cleaned -- and these roots should be scraped and very

well washed -- and a little sage. And do not put in anything else without

the doctor's order, and if he tells you to put in a little cinnamon and a

little verjuice to give it a little flavor, put them in; otherwise not.

[this differs from the following recipes by the addition of parsley,

parsley root, sage, and possibly cinnamon and verjuice]

        Using canned chick peas, drain, rinse, add fresh water, salt,

almond oil, and parsley, and parsley roots, sage. Cinnamon and verjuice

may be added.  [possibly, if almond oil is not available, olive oil and

almond extract might be used.  If parsley roots are not available, a few

slices of parsnip will impart the ëearthyí flavor I associate with

roots.] APdeT

        This can be suggested to modern cooks who want to 'help with the



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)


Chiquart's Spinach-Parsley Almond Cream Soup


69a. And if it happens that the doctor does not want to give the said

green purÈe to the sick person, let the said spinach and parsley be

prepared well and properly as is said above up to when he puts them in

the pot, [wash and stem] then take very good almonds as are necessary to

him and let him clean, blanch, and wash them very well and put them to be

brayed in a mortar--and that should neither smell nor taste of garlic:

[Latin phrase having to do with the medical qualities of garlic and other

things]--and let him bray them very well and moisten them with fair fresh

water and pass them through a good and clean strainer; and make milk of

them and put it in a fair pot. Then let him put it to boil very gently on

a fair clear fire or good coals and put in a little bit of salt, and when

the said milk boils put in the said spinach and a little almond oil and

cook it well and properly. And when they are well cooked do as was said

above to let the doctor know.

[spinach/parsley almond-cream soup; necessary in this one to strain the

almonds.  Could cook the spinach and parsely with the whole almond milk,

strain results.  Roll spiced ërefuseí in pastry and bake, slice for

appetizers.  Will work as ëfinger foodí for a demo.] APdeT


9. Again, for a blancmange divided into four colors all on one dish, that

is or, azure, gules, and argent: ...        use veggie broth, or pea

broth.  This would make one of the pretty dishes you are good at doing,



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)


Chiquart's almond applesauce--vegan


73.  Again, emplumeus of apples: to give understanding to him who will

make it, take good barberine apples according to the quantity of it which

one wants to make and then pare them well and properly and cut them into

fair gold or silver dishes; and let him have a fair, good, and clean

earthen pot, and let him put in fair clean water and put to boil over

fair and clear coals and put his apples to boil therein. And let him

arrange that he has a great quantity of good sweet almonds according to

the quantity of apples which he has put to cook, and let him blanch,

clean, and wash them very well and put them to be brayed in a mortar

which does not smell at all of garlic, and let him bray them very well

and moisten them with the broth in which the said apples are cooking; and

when the said apples are cooked enough draw them out onto fair and clean

boards, and let him strain the almonds with this water and make milk

which is good and thick, and put it back to boil on clear and clean coals

without smoke, and a very little salt. And while it boils let him chop

his said apples very small with a little clean knife and then, being

chopped, let him put them into his milk, and put in a great deal of sugar

according to the amount that there is of the said emplumeus of apples;

and then, when the doctor asks for it, put it in fair bowls or pans of

gold or silver.



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)



This appeared in Tournaments Illuminated, no. 89, Winter A.S. XXIII, p. 27.

by Nige of the Cleftlands, with assistance from Mathilde Meyer.  


Original: BERENGENAS EN CACUELA  [the second c has a cedilla above it,

but can't do it on juno]

Tomar berengenas y mondarlas dela corteza muy bie y cortarlas en tres o

quartro pedacos cada una: y cozer las en buen caldo de carnero co nv par

de cebollas...(Spanish)


68.  De alberginies en cassola

Albergines pendras e neteja-les de la escorca  e talla-les en tres o

quatre tocos cascuna.  E metles a coure ab bon brou de molto ab un parell

de cebes...


Our Translation:

Take eggplants and peel them well and cut them in 3 or 4 pieces each, and

cook them in good mutton broth with a pair of onion, and cook them until

they are well cooked; and being cooked, take them from the pan; and chop

them on a cutting board till they are very small; and then add good

grated Aragon cheese and some egg yolks.  And mince it all like the

stuffing for a kid, and add salsa fina, putting all of these spices into

the casserole, well mixed: ginger, mace, nutmeg, green coriander; and

parsley; then take the casserole to the oven. and when it is cooked,

sprinkle it with sugar and cinnamon.


Salsa fina is a bit of a mystery, but as the spices listed immediately

afterwards are also referred to as salsa, they may be what is actually

intended.  ....snip


Libre del coch. Mestre Robert, Barcelona, 1977

Libro de guisados manjares y potages intitulado Libro de Cozina, Facsimil

de la edicion de Logrone, 1529. Rupert de Nola, Madrid: Ediciones

Guillermo Blasquez.


Test version prepared for Known World Heraldry Road Show.

What I did:

Sliced eggplant in half, longways.  Scooped out most of pulp, leaving a

little 'wall' with the skin.  Chopped the pulp, adding chopped onions,

and some minced cilantro and curley parsley.  Made lamb broth with a leg

of lamb bone saved for soup. [ We will have to buy lamb or mutton to do

this]  Added veggies to simmering lamb broth, cooked them.  Added grated

Muenster cheese as I was supposed to be preparing this in Germany.  Added

an egg or a yolk.  Added some of my powder douce, with home ground spices

from the Pepperar's Guild: nutmeg, mace, ginger, cinnamon, sugar.  [We

can make it without the cinnamon for the event]. Spooned the mix back

into the shells and baked in convection oven, 300*, until done. [I

forget].  Baking it in the shells gave it a sort of smoky taste, which we





Rheinfrankisches Kochbuch, 1445


65.  Nimm Feigen, Rosinen und Honig, hacke alles zusammen klein und

mische es dabei untereinander, gib auch Gew¸rz und andere gute Zutaten

hinzu.  F¸lle es in (ausgehˆhlte) ƒpfel und hefte diese jeweils mit einem

hˆlzernen Spie?chen wieder zusammen.  Backe die gef¸llten ƒpfel in einem

Topf mit Weinin der F¸llung (oder: in einem Teigmantel, der mit

Weinhergestellt wurde).  Dann wird es sehr wohlschmeckend.


Take figs, raisins and honey, chop them small, all together, give also

spices and other good ingredients [I used walnuts at Celtic Spring II].

Use as stuffing for cored apples, bake in wine/honey sauce.  Plump the

figs if using dried figs. Note: if using an apple corer/peeler/slicer,

you have the look of whole apples, but people can take just a little if



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: SC - still more veggie


MenagieróJanet Hinson            

The liquid from the peas on a meat day is of no account. On a fish day

and in Lent, fry the onions as is told in the preceding chapter, and then

put the oil in which the onions were fried and the onions in along with

bread-crumbs, ginger, cloves and grain, grind: and sprinkle with vinegar

and wine, and add a little saffron, then adorn the bowl with slices of


On a meat day, use meat broth instead of pea broth.  On a fish day and in


1 Cup minced onion                2 T. olive oil

? C. bread crumbs                 1 C. pea broth

? t. ginger                         º t. cloves

2 T. flour                         [or 1 C. soaked wheat


? t. vinegar                       1 T. wine

few threads saffron                toast for garnish

Fry onions in olive oil until slightly brown. Use the flour to make a

roux with the olive oil.  Add remaining ingredients and simmer until well

blended, breadcrumbs dissolved, and spices well blended throughout.

Serve with toast slices.                 APdeT 2/99


        1000 Eggs, Vol II, p178, is for Hare in Wortes.  Cabbage is used

with other herbs and greens.  Possible to make a veggie version and add

poached eggs?

        Hare in Herbs.  Take cabbages, and strip them fair from the

stalkes.  Take Beets and Borage, avens, Violet, Mallow, parsley, betony,

patience* [another name for Dock (Rumex species) substitue sorrel] the

white of the leeks, and the young top of the nettle; parboil, press out

the water, hew them small.  And do thereto mix. Take good broth of fresh

beef, or other good flesh and marrow bones; [pea broth and butter]; put

it in a pot set on the fire; chop the hare in pieces, and , if thou will,

wash her in the same broth, and then draw it through A strainer with the

blood, And then put all on the fire. And if she is an old hare, let her

boil well, before thou cast in thy herbs; if she is young, cast in all

together at once; And let them boil till they are enough, and season them

with salt. And serve them forth.  The same way thou may make herbs of A

Goose of a night, powdering of beef [corned beef], or any other fresh


2 C. chopped cabbage                     4 C. assorted greens and


2 C. chopped whites of leeks            8 C. water

Parboil veggies 10 min., drain, press out water by rolling in towel.

2 C. pea broth                            2 C. water or wine

2 T. vinegar                       8 eggs

1 T. salt

        Heat broth, water or wine, vinegar and salt to boiling, reduce to

fast simmer, add eggs, one at a time, to poach. When eggs are cooked,

remove to dish in oven to keep warm.  Add parboiled veggies to simmering

broth, cook until tender, taste for salt.  This should have a slightly

salty taste.  Dish up, set poached eggs on top in green ënestsí.  The

vinegar is not called for in original recipe, but helps to poach eggs and

is a frequently used ingredient.  Hard boiled eggs could also be used, in

place of the poached eggs, in which case the vinegar would not be needed.

_______________________APdeT   2/99


Cury on Inglish     Cabbage

caboches n. cabbages IV 6, 103. CABOCHES IN POTAGE IV 6, stew of cabbage,

onions, and leeks in broth.  None of the French recipes correspond

closely, although this sort of preparation may be implied under the

heading of poree, MP pp. 139-40; cf. CB p. 33, Caboges.

6.  Cabbages in pottage.  Take cabbages and quarter them, and simmer in

good broth with minced onions and the white of leeks slivered small.  Add

saffron and salt, and season it with sweet powders.

My Notes:  This is somewhat like Harleian 145 with the white peas


2 C. washed, chopped cabbage            3 C. boiling water

parboil cabbage 10 min., drain, remove water, squeezing in towel

1 C. pea broth                            1 C. white wine

? C. minced onion                 1 chopped leek white

1-2 t. salt                         several strands saffron

2 T. powder douce.

Simmer until tender but not overcooked.

________________________APdeT   2/99


        This recipe came out very tender and delicate, without a strong

cabbage taste.  Actually, the leftovers made a very good soup.  I

confused them with a package of chopped onion in my freezer, dumped them

into some simmered stock made with beef bones, and kept cooking them.

The delicate taste was lost, in with the soup, but it was still good;

better than other cabbage soups Iíve tried, as I really donít like

standard cabbage soup.  I think more people would be willing to eat

cabbage if we parboil it first, getting rid of the strong taste.  That

goes for all veggies in the same familyóbroccoli, brussels sprouts, kale,

etc.  Those are pretty bad when they are over-cooked.


1000 Eggs, Vol II, pp32-33.                                   Cindy

Renfrow,  M. Sincegifu

Harleian MS 279 - Potage Dyvers

        Rygth so Caboges.  Ben seruyd, saue men sayn it is gode Also to

ley hem in a bagge ouernygth in rennyng streme of watere, & a-morwe sette

vppe watere, & when the water is skaldyng hot, throw hem ther-on, & hoole

hem in there wyse be-forsayd, & serue forth.


146.  Cabbages in just the Same way, Are served, save men say it is good

Also to lay them in a bag overnight in running stream of water, & on the

morrow set up water, & when the water is scalding hot, throw them

thereon, & hull them in their manner aforesaid, & serve forth.


        My notes:  plain boiled cabbage seems to be called for, but is

unlikely due to the manner of preparation of other vegetables and

foodstuffs, plus the unlikeliness of putting in a book simple boiled

vegetables.  Not being a gardener, I have no idea how you ëhullí a

cabbage!  The previous recipe is for Blaunche Perreye, Harleian 145, and

after the peas are washed, and boiled in wine, the hulls are rubbed off,

then they are cooked additionally and served with salt.  Harleian 148 is

for white peas in gravy, Take White Peas, & hull them in the manner as

men do Cabbages, or white peas; then seethe them with Almond milk, put

thereto sugar enough, & fried Onion & Oil, and serve forth.


2 C. chopped washed cabbage             3. C. water

Parboil cabbage 10-15 min., drain.  Return to pot, add

? C. white wine + 1 T. sugar     OR     almond milk + 2 T. sugar

? C. chopped onions, fried in olive oil

Simmer until tender but not overcooked.

        My Notes: Made a half recipe, using the ? C. wine version.  Can

reduce wine to º C.  Has a rich taste, possibly a combination of the

carmelized onions and the olive oil.  Need to be careful not to let the

onions cook too fast or too brown.  Best when salted.  I chose a wine

version, because that is often used instead of meat broth, a common

ingredient for cooking vegetables.  This is a keeper.

_________________________APdeT    2/99


        I was cruising through the English translation of Le Menagier,

and found this in the Odds and Ends section.  It sounds pretty good, kind

of like a vegetarian c.b. hash and poached eggs.

        M. Christianna

Rique-Manger. Take two apples as big as two eggs or a little more and

peel them, and take out the seeds, then chop in small pieces, then

parboil in an iron skillet, then pour off the water, and let the

rique-manger dry: then add butter for frying, and while frying and

stirring, drip in two eggs; and when it is all cooked, throw on powdered

spices, and saffron, and eat with bread during September.

        This was from M. Christianna, from Meridies.  A good bit of

discussion on the list concerned what sort of apples and why eat them in



Chyches. Take chiches and wrye hem in askes al nyght other al a day,

other lay hem in hoot aymers [hot embers]. At morowe waische hem in clene

water, and do hem ouere the fire with clene water.  Seeth hem up and do

therto oyle, garlec hole, safroun, powdour fort and salt; seeth it and

messe it forth.

Basically, roast them, wash them, boil with oil, garlic cloves, saffron,

salt, and strong spices, and serve.



1 can chick peas per table, 1 bulb garlic per table.  Simmer or bake

garlic until tender, press out of bulb skin.  Can be done day before.

Mix with drained, rinsed chick peas, add 2 T. olive oil, several threads

saffron dissolved in T. hot water, 2 t. cinnamon, 1 t. ginger, ?

t.clove, ? t. grains per can chick peas.  Heat, stirring constantly,

until hot through.

Veg.     APdeT version.


Hazelnut Frumenty          Diversa Servicia 89.         Curye on

Inglysch Book II p. 79.

For to make formenty on a fichssday, tak the mylk of the hasel notis.

Boyl the wite wyth the aftermelk til it be dryyd, & tak & coloure yt with

safroun; & the ferst mylk cast therto & boyle wel, & serue yt forth.


For to make frumenty on a fish day, take the milk of the hazelnut.  Boil

the wheat with the second running of the hazelnut milk until all liquid

is absorbed., color it with saffron, add the first running of the

hazelnut milk, boil well, and serve.


Use food processor and/or blender to make hazelnut milk with boiling

water, same as almond milk.  Strain, and make a second running with the

nut residue.  Use the second running as the liquid for the first boiling

of the wheat (or barley).  Cook until all liquid is absorbed.  Stir in

some saffron for color.  Add the first running of the hazelnut milk,

return to boil, simmer until tender.

For feast economy, might use both almond milk and hazelnut milk.  Top

with chopped, toasted hazelnuts to serve.


from Alia Atlas' Ein Guoter Speise


81. Ein birnmus (A pear puree)

     Wilt du machen ein birnmus. so nim birn und besnit die schoene. und

siude sie in einem hafen mit eyme wine. und mit smaltze und durchgeslagen

durch ein tuch und derwelle sie denne mit eyers totern. daz ist gar gantz



     How you want to make a pear puree. So take pears and cut them fine.

And boil them in a pot with a wine and with fat and pound through a cloth

and, he who wants, then with egg yolks. That is very thorough to do.


Peel and core pears, chop.  Add enough sweet wine to just cover, add

butter.  Cook until applesauce consistency. Thicken with beaten egg

yolks.  Spice with saffron and honey, try with a bit of ginger or true

cinnamon.  Serve in bowls.          Also, do one with plums and pears

mixed, not as a sauce but in pieces.                               APdeT


                              10. Ein spise von birn (A food of pears)

     Nim gebratene birn und sure epfele und hacke sie kleine. und tu dar

zu pfeffer und enis und ro eyer. znit zwo d¸nne schiben von d¸nne brote.

f¸lle diz da zwischen niht vollen eines vingers dicke. mache ein d¸nnez

blat von eyern und kere daz einez dor inne umm, und backez mit butern in

einer phannen biz daz ez rot werde und gibz hin.


     Take roasted pears and tart apples and chop them small. And add

thereto pepper and anise and raw eggs. Cut two thin slices from thin

bread. Fill this in between not too full, of a finger's thickness. Make a

thin leaf of eggs and turn that therein about and bake it with butter in

a pan until it becomes red and give out.


Roast or bake pears, not too soft.  Peel and core pears.  Mince the

cooked pear with peeled and cored tart apples. Add ginger and anise, and

enough beaten raw egg to hold the fruit together. Remove crusts of thin

slices of soft, white bread.  Place some filling on one piece of bread,

cover with another, press edges to seal.  Dip in some batter of beaten

egg, milk and flour.  Fry in butter on both sides until nicely browned.

Serve hot.                      APdeT



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:54:57 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about  medieval food! :)


Sure, some recipes I can sub in good veggie broth for the

mutton/meat/chicken broth the original recipe calls for, but some of them

are obviously meant to be meat dishes, ie rys of flessche?


Right, but read the bit in Chiquart--from Cariadoc's site--where he talks

about the substitutions the physicians call for, or eliminate.  He is one

cook who is prepared to make vegetarian or vegan food [doesn't call it

that, of course] out of regular mixtures for fasts or illness.


snips from my article:

Mistress Elizabeth’s copy can be found on the Internet, at



        Chiquart gives us our documentation for important personages who

do not eat meat:

"And as at such a feast there could be some very high, puissant, noble,

venerable and honorable lords and ladies who do not eat meat, for these

there must be fish, marine and fresh-water, fresh and salt, in such

manner as one can get them."


        Of course, he substitutes fish, but he also has a number of

vegetable dishes that can be eaten by ovo-lacto vegetarians, or those who

eat eggs and cheese and other milk products. There are some recipes in

his work and in other cookery books which are, or could be, made totally



From Chiquart

[Latin] Note: for the sick.

And first a restorative, a recise, an almond butter, a green purÈe of

spinach, quinces in pastry, a couleys, pears cooked without touching

coals or water, a plumeus of apples, oatmeal, chickpeas, semolina,



And then there are the Cathars....you can make it medieval, of course,

but we have to burn you all at the stake when dinner is over.  


Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:52:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period or no?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


-----Original Message-----

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>


Theres always a nice barley pottage, with whatever root veggies you

want to add. Enrich it with onion soup, garlic broth, or whatever.




I just tried one of the recipes in Henry Marks' book on Byzantine

cooking.  Most of them are conjectural, since they are based on

descriptions of food, and monastery menus, but this one is pretty

straight forward.


To paraphrase, the original description says to cook lentils in water

with barley, leeks, dill, oil, and vinegar; and if you desire, savory

or pennyroyal.  (As pennyroyal can be unsafe, Marks substitutes mint,

which is in the same family.)  Use less barley than lentils, so they

don't absorb all the liquid.


I used

1 cup lentils

1/2 cup barley

1 cup finely chopped leeks (white part only) = 2-3 leeks

1/4 cup chopped fresh dill

3 TBS olive oil

2 TBS white wine vinegar

1/4 tsp ground savory


Cook the lentils with the leeks in 5 cups of water until the lentils

are tender.  Meanwhile, cook the barley separately, according to

package directions.  In the last half hour of the lentils cooking, add

the other ingredients, EXCEPT for the barley.  When the lentils are

done, add the barley, and cook for another 10 minutes.  Salt to taste.


This was very, very good, and much more flavorful than I would have

expected from a meatless lentil dish.  A mundane vegetarian co-worker

liked it very much.  It improves with age.


Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

rcmann4 at earthlink.net



Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:23:52 EST

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] soup recipe?

To: sca-cooks at anstorra.org


mysticgypsy1008 at yahoo.com writes:

<<I remember it was root type veggies in a veggie  broth>>


Possibly Rapes in Pottage, which is onions, and turnips, carrots, or

skirrits (sort of a water turnip, very hard to find) in "good broth", which many

people make as a vegetarian dish by using veggie broth.  I made it once with

chicken broth and it was even better :-)


Here's my version using veggie broth:



from Curye on Inglysch, English, 14th century

as  redacted by Duke Cariadoc of the Bow

and adapted by Lady Brangwayna Morgan


Takes rapus and make heem clene, and waissh hem clee;  quarter hem;

perboile hem, take hem vp.  Cast hem in a gode broth and seethe hem; mynce  oynouns and cast therto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with powdour   douce.  In the self wise make of pastunakes and skyrwittes.


1 lb turnips, carrots, and parsnips mixed      

6 threads  saffron


powder douce:

2 t sugar

2 cups  vegetable broth  

3/4 t  salt

3/8 t cinnamon

1/2 lb  onions

3/8 t ginger


Wash, peel, and qurter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are large),

cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes.  Clean carrots and parsnips

and cut them up into large bite-size pieces and parboil 10  minutes.  Mince

onions.  Drain veggies and put them with onions and vegetable broth in a pot

and bring to a boil.  Crush saffron into about 1t of the broth and add

seasonings to potage.  Cook another 15-20 minutes, until vegetables are soft to a fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.





Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:27:01 -0500

From: "RUTH EARLAND" <rtannahill at verizon.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: cheese for a feast

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


When it comes to feast planning, I'm a cheapskate.


I only allow an ounce of cheese per person. If you trim it and slice  

it, an ounce of cheese can look like a fair amount.


About the only time I allow 2 ounces per person is if it's the vegetarian alternative to a meat course. Background on this: I don't like to leave the vegetarians out. I don't think it's fair that they pay the same feast fee as everyone else, but don't eat the most expensive part. So, lately, I've been offering tasty vegetarian alternatives to the meat dishes on a side table.


It's been working out fairly well. Last feast, the vegetarians were






Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:32:18 -0700 (PDT)

From: Elyse Boucher <elyseboucher at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking sweets for vegans and others

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


Greetings from the humble scribe, Merouda Pendray, briefly delurking


My specialty is Lenten cookery and modifying non-Lenten dishes to "SCA compatible for Vegans and Piscetarians." I generally do this primarily for myself as a result of my own dietary restrictions, because there are few Event Stewards looking to produce an all Lenten feast, and so my repertoire of sweets is minimal--I prefer savory. However, I would like to make a couple of suggestions.


Almond milk is, of course, the standard milk in period Lenten cookery, but you can also obtain commercially made rice milk. This is a reasonable substitute for individuals with dietary restrictions looking to produce something period like, and even here, in America's Dairyland, most chain grocers carry it. It's also pretty easy to make at home, but it's more work. ;-). Oat Milk, Hazelnut milk, are also commercially available, although you might have to make a trip to a co-op/health food/organic/whole food-type store. These are also reasonable subs. Here in Wisconsin, these milks are at the more specialty types of stores and in the better stocked regular grocers. And, of course, there is always soy milk, which is ubiquitous, and hemp milk, which will more usually be found in the co-op clan. The use of one of these milks will make several cream-type of sweets available to you.


Various sorts of cooked fruits and pies will be, as pointed out, about the easiest thing for you to do, and my favorite is a prune compote based on a receipt in Sabina Welserin, #70, A tart of plums. It is unbelievably simple: Dried plums (prunes) seethed in wine until they can be mashed, then add sugar and cinnamon, and thickened with quick oats that I ground in a mortar to substitute for the eggs called for in the receipt. I use a red wine or a red sangria when I make it. It is wonderful spooned right from a dish, and if you make a little almond cheese with it... well, nom nom nom. It's also a fabulous tart, and it's really not hard to make an oil based pastry with rice & oat flour, if you would like to try that. Mixing and rolling it takes 15 minutes, tops.


Another favorite is Apples Royale/Apple Muse/Appulmoy, also fabulous straight from the bowl, and also made with ingredients you can find in any grocery store--use a white wine for this. (This is like an extra good apple sauce).


You can also just bake fresh fruits with appropriate spices without the tart shell, or sweetened, spiced rice served warm and drizzled with honey. Those are also easy, period, vegan and wheatless. If you need reference recipes for any of this, let me know, but the recipe search on Medieval Cookery should turn up something for you.


I could go on at length about this kind of restrictive cookery and the challenges of creating something period or period-like, but I'll spare you. ;-)


Merouda, returning to lurk.


Modern: Elyse C. Boucher, West Allis, WI

SCA: Merouda Pendray, Caer Anterth Mawr, Northshield



Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:56:02 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period substitute for tomatoes?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


Instead of looking for something to substitute in a modern recipe to follow

period constraints, why not look at actual period recipes?  If you go

to http://www.medievalcookery.com/etexts.html


you will find numerous period Middle Eastern cookbooks in translation,

including the "Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook" which is from southern Spain.

Here are some recipes I've used in the past. They are all vegetarian and

gluten free:


*Badinjan Muhassa  (mezze)*


*5/8 pound eggplant*

*3/4 cup walnuts*

*1 5/8 T vinegar (for nut dough)*

*3/8 t salt (for nut dough)*

*1/8 t pepper and salt*

*3/4 t caraway seed*

*1 1/4 T vinegar (at the end)*

*1/4 cup chopped raw onion*


*1*.     Simmer the eggplant 20 to 30 minutes in salted water (1/2 t salt in

a pint of water).


*2*.     Let it cool. Peel it. Slice it and let the slices sit on a colander

or a cloth for an hour or so, to let out the bitter juice.


*3*.     Grind the walnuts, add vinegar and salt to make a dough.


*4*.     Make patties about 1/2" thick and put them on a frying pan at

medium to medium high heat, without oil. In about half a minute, when the

bottom side has browned a little, turn the patty over and use your pancake

turner to squash it down to about 1/4" (the cooked side is less likely to

stick to your implement than the uncooked side).


*5*.     Continue cooking, turning whenever the patty seems about to scorch.

When you are done, the surface of the patty will be crisp, brown to

black-and since it is thin, the patty is mostly surface. If the patties

start giving up lots of walnut oil (it is obvious-they will quickly be

swimming in the stuff) the pan is too hot; throw them out, turn down the

heat and make some more.


*6*.     Chop up the eggplant, mix in the nut patties (they will break up in

the process), add pepper, salt, caraway (ground in a spice grinder or mortar

and pestle), and vinegar. Top with onion. Eat by itself or on bread.


*Servings*: 8


*Notes*: Cook eggplants until soft by baking, boiling or grilling over the

fire, leaving them whole. When they are cool, remove the loose skin, drain

the bitter liquor and chop the flesh fine. It should be coarser than a true

pur?e. Grind walnuts fine and make into a dough with vinegar and salt. Form

into a patty and fry on both sides until the taste of raw walnut is gone;

the vinegar is to delay scorching of the nuts. Mix the cooked walnuts into

the chopped eggplant and season to taste with vinegar and ground caraway

seed, salt and pepper. Serve with a topping of chopped raw or fried onion.


FOR FEAST:  entire dish can be made at pre-cook


*Source*: Ibn al-Mahdi's cookbook in 10th c. collection, Charles Perry tr.


*Copyright*: Cariadoc's Miscellany. The Miscellany is Copyright (c) by David

Friedman and Elizabeth Cook, 1988, 1990, 1992.



*Muzawwara (feast)*


*1 pkg (1#) lentils*

*5 cups water*

*1/4 cup cider vinegar*

*3/4 t ground coriander*

*3/4 t cumin*

*1 1/2 t cinnamon*

*6 threads saffron*

*1/4 cup oil*

*1 t salt*


one of the following:


*1 1/2 pounds butternut squash*

*1 pound chard or beet leaves*

*1 pound lettuce*

*2 8" cucumbers*


*1*.     Boil lentils about 40 minutes until they start to get mushy.


*2*.     Add spices and vinegar and oil.


*3*.     Add one of the vegetables; leafy vegetables should be torn up,

squash or cucumbers are cut into bite-sized pieces and cooked about 10-15

minutes before being added to lentils.


*4*.     Cook lettuce or chard version for about 10 minutes, until leaves

are soft. Cook squash or cucumber version about 20 minutes. Be careful not

to burn during the final cooking.


*Servings*: 6


*Notes*: Take boiled peeled lentils and wash in hot water several times; put

in the pot and add water without covering them; cook and then throw in

pieces of gourd, or the stems [ribs] of Swiss chard, or of lettuce and its

tender sprigs, or the flesh of cucumber or melon, and vinegar, coriander

seed, a little cumin, Chinese cinnamon, saffron and two ?qiyas of fresh oil;

balance with a little salt and cook. Taste, and if its flavor is pleasingly

balanced between sweet and sour, [good;] and if not, reinforce until it is

equalized, according to taste, and leave it to lose its heat until it is

cold and then serve.


THOUGHTS ABOUT COOKING FOR FEAST:  Cook lentils with water vinger and

seasonings at pre-cook.  Day of--prepare veggies, bring lentils to serving

temp, and complete cooking with veggies.


*Source*: Andalusian p. A-52


*Copyright*: Cariadoc's Miscellany. The Miscellany is Copyright (c) by David

Friedman and Elizabeth Cook, 1988, 1990, 1992.



and, finally, a recipe for a type of Biryani that is period:



*Lazizan (Vegetable Biryani)*

Redacted by the Madrone Culinary Guild (An Tir)


    1/4  pound  lentils -- soaked for 2 hours

    1/8  pound  onions -- minced

1       15-oz can  Garbanzo beans -- rinsed and drained

   1/16 quart  water -- boiling

    1/8  cup  ghee

    1/4  tablespoon  garam masala

    1/8  tablespoon  salt

    1/4  tablespoon  fresh ginger

    1/4  pound  Basmati rice   (8 cups)

    1/8  pound  chopped pistachio nuts or almonds

    1/8  cup  raisin

    1/4  tablespoon  garam masala

   1/16 cup  ghee


In a large pot, fry onions in 2 T. ghee till golden. (10 - 15 min. over med.



Add garam masala, salt and fresh ginger, stir well. Add rice and saute 3 - 5

minutes till golden  Carefully add the boiling water  Let rice boil 3 - 5

minutes, then add drained dal.


Let cook for 25 minutes total.


While rice is cooking, fry nuts and raisins and 1 tsp garam masala in 1 tbsp

ghee till almonds are golden.  Add chickpeas, stir for a minute or two, then

add mixture to rice pot.  Check liquid levels in rice as well as rice

texture.  Add liquid if needed.  Cook uncovered for a little while if too





""A Dinner from Moghul India"--Madrone Culinary Guild--taken from similar

examples in Ain-I-Akbari by Abu al-Fazl ibn Mubarak.  A 16th c. Mughal



NOTES : Akbar's son Jahangir was particularly fond of a dish called Lazizan,

a khichri of rice cooked with pulses, spices and nuts. This made an

excellent vegetarian alternative to Meat Biriyani.  Although there is no

original recipe, the above description made an excellent starting point.



I hope that you find these useful.  And they are different from the usual

modern Middle Eastern foods.  Good luck!





Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:58:06 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can I...


<<< Can I remove the meat from a recipe to make it vegan friendly?

I have an event where I'm head cook & wanted to know as there are

vegans & vegetarians...

please advise.


Lady Marie d'Andelys >>>


It depends on the recipe.  Attempting to make a vegan main dish out

of a meat recipe is usually not very successful. Personally I don't

like trying to use modern ingredients like tofu or textured soy

protein in medieval cooking.  If it is small amount of meat or meat

broth used for flavoring in a dish that is primarily plant based you

should be able to remove it, but it may change the dish.  Make sure

you test your adapted recipes before the feast.


It's very nice to have a varied menu that allows for everyone to

choose the foods they prefer, but you don't have to customize the

menu to people's diets and preferences **unless you want to**.


Speaking as a vegetarian, post a menu with all ingredients, and

people can be adult and decide for themselves if they can eat your

feast or need to make other arrangements.  If you choose to cater

everyone's needs, it doesn't meant they have to be able to eat every

single dish.  Think about what is left on the menu if someone cant

eat any one ingredient or class of ingredient. That goes for

vegetarians, vegans, celiacs, various allergies, and people that

don't like onions.


There are a number of period vegetarian recipes, but vegan is harder.

You might look at Lent recipes. If you have a couple of nice

vegan-friendly grain or vegetable dishes, maybe a bean or lentil

dish, don't feel you have to have a vegan version of every meat dish.





Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:44:28 -0700

From: Ursula Georges <ursula at tutelaries.net>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetarian recipe


On 6/14/2010 12:12 PM, Drucilla Meany-Herbert wrote:

<<< I will be making meat pies for a household dinner, does anyone have

recipes for vegetarian or vegan pies that they like? Tasty and simple

without costly or unusual ingredients? The pies will be small and

crescent shaped. Period authentic is not a must. >>>


Check out my Andalusian feta pies redaction here:




You might want to up the quantity of filling, or add a milder cheese

like ricotta or farmer's cheese to bulk the pies up, if you're using a

more substantial crust.


The Lebanese Spinach Triangle recipe which I stole the dough proportions

from also looks good, albeit modern, and would be vegan if you used an

olive-oil based crust:




I have taught a "medieval food for vegetarians" class in the past; the

handout is available upon request.


Ursula Georges.



Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:24:54 -0700

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetarian recipe


<<< I wasn't the originator of this question, but can I put my hand up

and say 'me too!"  It is always a bit of a problem trying to find a

period alternative for vegetarians. >>>


Lots of lenten recipes and lenten variants offered for recipes. There

are period Islamic recipes that are "fake meat"--"A Counterfeit

Isfiriya of Garbanzos," for example.


Running through the Miscellany, there are Armored Turnips, Fried

Gourd, Perre, Lang Wortes de Pesone, On Preparing Carrots and

Parsnips, Makke, Fried Broad Beans, ...  and that's just from the

first few pages of recipes.


So far as pies are concerned ... . If you are willing to use cheese,

Tart on Ember Day is yummy. Spinach Tart is good. Le Menagier has

Mushroom Pastries.


All in the Miscellany:







Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:50:02 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetarian recipe


Myrrim wrote:

<<< I wasn't the originator of this question, but can I put my hand up and say

'me too!"  It is always a bit of a problem trying to find a period

alternative for vegetarians. >>>


Odd. It always seems easy to me...


I have cooked quite a few European feasts in which everything was

vegetarian except the meat dishes, because we have a number of

vegetarians around here. The one change i made was when a meat broth

to cook vegetables, i used a rich vegetable broth instead.


And while there are not a lot of vegetarian recipes in the Muslim

corpus (most vegetables are either cooked with meat or served with

meatballs), it is easy to adapt them, too.


A meat dish or two in each course for the omnivores, and vegetable

and/or fruit dishes prepared without meat so the vegetarians can eat

them, and a grain dish should suffice.


Here are 2 of the 4 courses from my very first feast. Everything but

the meats (and the limonada, which is based on chicken soup) is



* First Course *

Mild Italian Pork Sausages (meat)

Chyckens in Gravey (meat)

Limonada (Lemon Sauce) (meat)

Rice with Almond Milk (vegetarian)

Cabbage with Fennel and Apples (vegetarian)

Funges (Spiced Mushrooms) (vegetarian)

Crustade Lumbarde (Custard Pie with Dried Fruit) (vegetarian)


* Second Course *

Roast Pork Loin (meat)

Apple Juice Sauce (vegetarian)

Horseradish-Honey Sauce (vegetarian)

Garlic Sauce with Walnuts and Almonds (vegetarian)

Frumenty (Cooked Wheat) (vegetarian)

Sallat (Salad of Mixed Greens and Herbs) (vegetarian)

Turnips in Mustard Sauce (vegetarian)

Baked Buttered Onions and Apples (vegetarian)



4 meat dishes

11 vegetarian dishes (sauces are good on grains or sopped up with bread)


This was not my best designed feast, although the food was all

delicious, if i do say so myself, because the dishes were from about

4 different centuries and 3 different countries. I had only been in

the SCA 1.5 years and had only ever attended one feast. After my

first feast, barring special requests from the autocrat or important

guests, i have kept each of my feasts to pretty much one country and

one century.


I have made English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Greco-Roman,

and several different kinds of Middle Eastern dishes, and i have

never had trouble feeding vegetarians.


I was a vegetarian in the late 1960s/early 1970s and still don't eat

meat often, and my adult daughter has been a vegetarian since she was



My feasts and recipes are on my website:



If you would like to ask questions, about them or finding/choosing

recipes, i am happy to help.


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita


<the end>

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