peppers-msg

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peppers-msg - 4/18/08

The introduction of various peppers to Europe. Sweet peppers, paprika,

bell peppers, chili peppers.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: Uduido at aol.com

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:20:49 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: SC - Gulyas Revisited

A few days ago there was a thread on paprika and gulyas if I remember

correctly. Although the following information is not from a period source, it

is from a writer that I admire and respect completely. So for what it's worth

this may provide a start on finally answering the paprika question.

From "Jane Grigson's Vegetable Book", pg.377:

"..........Even after the discovery of America it took time - the red dishes

of Hungarian cookery, paprikas and gulyas, date from the 17th and 18th

centuries only......."

Hope this helps somewhat.

Lord Ras

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:32:20 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Green peppers-history

<< When folks speak of 'green peppers' I think of bell peppers. According

to Organic Gardening, February 1997, the first bell pepper was the

California Wonder, introduced 1928 CE. >>

From Jane Grigson's Vegetable Book:

"India andd Hungary, Italy and Spain had to await Columbus to develope what

are now their most typical dishes. Even after the discovery of America it

took time- the red dishes of Hungarian cookery, paprikas and gulyas, date

from the 17th and 18th centuries only. In this country (England) we have

waited longer still. Peppers semm only to have been on sale here (England)

for about 20 years (circa 1958 C.E.), first as an expensive exotic, more

recently as a commonplace.......

There we have it. Green peppers were introduced into England in the late

1950's C.E. Sweet red peppers were introduced into India and Hungary in the

mid to late 17th century.

Lord Ras ( when memory fails, look it up. :-))

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:31:30 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

At 12:30 PM -0500 11/4/97, Varju wrote:

><< Is there some bit of documentation that would indicate a post-period

>arrival date for paprika in the Hungary region?>>

>This is a long story. From what I've read the Turks brought paprika to

>Hungary during their rule.

I believe the Hungarians thought capsicum peppers were connected with the

turks, as judged by the name for them; I don't know if they were right.

Consider the possibly analogous cases of "turkeys" and "Indian corn." I

have seen it seriously argued that the latter name was not from the

connection to Amerinds but a misidentification with an "Indian Corn"

mentioned by Pliny.

There is a modern book on peppers (Dewitt, Dave and Gerlach, Nancy, The

Whole Chile Pepper Book, Little, Brown Co., Boston 1990. ) that refers to

Capsicums in Hungary in 1569 in a noblewoman's garden, called "turkish red

pepper." I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,

or how early we have recipes. I have been unable to find any period

Hungarian cookbooks.

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:18:29 -0500 (EST)

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

<< I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,

or how early we have recipes. I have been unable to find any period

Hungarian cookbooks. >>

The few recipes I have seen do not contain paprika. Unfotunately, I have

them third hand, (translations in _The Cuisine of Hungary_) and only seven

recipes from a book published in 1601. It has been a consideration to do

some research on this subject once I'm done with my other research. . .

Noemi

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:20:51 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Paprika-History of

In a message dated 97-11-06 07:38:09 EST, Cariadoc writes:

<< The

Whole Chile Pepper Book, Little, Brown Co., Boston 1990. ) that refers to

Capsicums in Hungary in 1569 in a noblewoman's garden, called "turkish red

pepper." I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,

The variety of pepper used to make paprika is a considered to be a sweet

pepper.

According to "Food in History", hot peppers became extremely populer during

the 1500's.

They were also used by the Germans and English in beer making to give it

body.

However "sweet peppers" (of which paprika is one) were not introduced until

the 1700's and even then it was grown and used extensively by the peasants of

Provence as a "breakfast" food.

From there it spread to other parts of Europe, speciffically Poland from whom

the Hungarians adopted it as their national spice as well as and the Polish

name for paprika (pierprzyca) making it the definitive spice in Goulash.

Based on this information, IMO, the hot peppers (capsicums) became widely

used (e.g. "extremely popular" throughout the countries who spoke Romance

languages shortly after Columbus introduced them to Spain. The introduction

of sweet peppers in the 1700's would preclude it's use during any of the time

period covered by the SCA and the use of paprika as a spice in Hungarian

dishes most probably began at the earliest circa 1725 C.E. but more likely

between 1740 C.E. and 1750 C.E.before gaining widespread popularity and

national recognition in the last half of the century.

al-Sayyid Ras

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:55:26 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Paprika-History of

To quote James Trager's Foodbook:

<quote>

Chili and cayenne come from the Capsicum frutescens and the Capsicum

annuum (Guinea pepper), paprika from the Capsicum tetragonum. The mild

puffy green, or bell, pepper is the immature Capsicum grossum which when

it is ripe, is the hot red or yellow pepper. Capsicums vary in taste

somewhat according to where the grow, hence the distinctive flavor of

Hungarian paprika, the dried powder derived from the sweet red

tetragonum pepper grown in Hungary.

According to a source I can not remember or locate at the moment,

Capsicum peppers were introduced into Italy by the Spanish. The

Venetians used them as trade goods in the Near East and they were traded

north into Central Europe from Turkey, hence their presumed Turkish

origin.

Bear

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 23:04:43 EST

From: Varju <Varju at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

<< Incidentally, it looks as though the seven recipes (which I seem to have

somehow missed when I first looked through the book long ago) are not all

from the 1601 source--some are from the earlier manuscript. But he doesn't

say which. >>

Your Grace, I must thank you for pointing that fact out. in the numerous

times I had read the book I had never noticed that. I think I just kept

skipping to the recipes.

In that same section, Lang does state that paprika is not mentioned in either

manuscript "since the Turks brought it in just about that time and it had not

become a part of the nobility's cooking." (Lang, pg. 25) Now I really do

want to do more research on this subject. . .now if only my Hungarian were up

to par. . .

Noemi

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 14:22:53 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Paprika-History of

><snip>The mildpuffy green, or bell, pepper is the immature Capsicum grossum

>which whenit is ripe, is the hot red or yellow pepper. <snip>

>um...while the bell peppers I have grown do change from green to red or

>yellow...they don't turn into hot peppers. And the hot peppers I have grown

>are hot even when they are green.

>-brid

>(confused)

The "hot" in this case may not be referring to spicing, but color. Red

bell peppers are definitely a hot red color, but they do not have a hot

taste.

Capsicums are not uniformly "hot". Different varieties have different

flavors and the "fire" (determined by the capsaicin in the pepper) is

also altered by the growing conditions.

To give a little idea of the range of flavors, here's a quote from the

MS Encyclopedia:

The red peppers, native to warm temperate and tropical regions of the

Americas, are various species of Capsicum (of the NIGHTSHADE family).

The hot varieties include cayenne pepper, whose dried, ground fruit is

sold as a spice, and chili pepper, sold similarly as a powder or in a

chili sauce. Paprika (the Hungarian word for red pepper) is a ground

spice from a less pungent variety. The pimiento, or Spanish pepper, is a

mild type; its small fruit is used as a condiment and for stuffing

olives. The common garden, or bell, pepper has larger, also mild fruits;

they are used as vegetables and in salads. Bell peppers are also known

as green peppers because they are most often marketed while still

unripe.

Bear

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 22:13:54 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Paprika-History of

<< Out of curiousity, what makes it a "sweet pepper"? Is it due to the

particular variety of plant it is or flavor? >>

Actually both. Peppers in general are from the Nightshade family as are

potatos. tomatoes. eggplant, tobacco, Belladonna and Henbane . They are grown

for the thick-walled berries they produce.

Simplified, The group as a whole is classied as Capsicum frutescens with the

following varieties> var. fasciculatum (red cluster peppers<hot>); var.

longum (long peppers <semi-sweet>); var. conoides (come peppers <mild to

hot>; grossum (sweet pepper< mild>); var. cerasiforme (cherry peppers <hot).

v. fasciculatum includes most of the peppers we are familiar with as "hot"

peppers with the noteble exception of Habeneros which some place in the

conoides group (which IMO is in error).

v. cerasiforme is , of course the round globe shaped peppers we call cherry

peppers.

v. grossum is the Bell pepper which we are all familiar with and it is very

mild to sweet in flavor and pimiento..

v. longum is semi-sweet and includes Italian frying peppers and paprika.

longum was originally classified as a grossum from the information I have at

hand.

As a side the majority of the hot peppers dry easily and those of the grossum

and longum varieties are more thickly fleshed tending to rot if not

carefully monitored during the drying process. Bells and pimients rot most

readily of all the peppers.

al-Sayyid Ras al Zib

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 13:27:34 -0500 (EST)

From: Varju at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Redaction class on-line

Well. . .I'm not Adamantius or Cariadoc, but I have an answer. Now that I

went back and actually read _The Cuisine of Hungary_ carefully, I have found

much to my sorrow that paprika is not period. George Lang states, but

doesn't give a source for, the fact that the Turks had not introduced paprika

to Hungary by the early 1600's.

So paprika is definitively NOT period.

Noemi

felling a bit crushed

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:37:36 EST

From: "Chanda Shaffer" <leanche at hotmail.com>

Subject: SC - hot pepper oil-remady

>Anybody have any good ideas for getting hot pepper oil off my hands? I was

>crushing some Thai peppers for lunch, and although I've washed with

>detergent and hot water twice, I'm still burning myself every time I forget

>and touch myself in the face.

>Phlip,

>Who believes that when you're hot, you're hot,

>But at the moment would rather not.

Try milk. soak your hands and any other utensils that may have absorbed

the oils ( cutting board, counter, knife handle) in milk. make sure to

get the milk under your fingernails as well. It is the same principle

as eating spicy foods with sour cream on it. I believe it is the

lactose in the dairy products which dissipates the capsaicin in the

peppers but don't quote me on it.

You can also try latex gloves to keep the oils away from your skin

in the first place, but I prefer the milk method because I am allergic

to latex and think it leaves a taste on foods.

Good Luck

Ivy~

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:49:32 EST

From: DianaFiona <DianaFiona at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - hot pepper oil-remady

<< >

>Anybody have any good ideas for getting hot pepper oil off my hands? I was

>crushing some Thai peppers for lunch, and although I've washed with

>detergent and hot water twice, I'm still burning myself every time I forget

>and touch myself in the face.

Ouch! Been there, right enough...... At the moment I've got some

habaneros that I was gifted with that I'm trying to work up the courage to

deal with! In additon to the milk listed by someone else you might try

vinegar. It's supposed to disolve the essential oils, I believe. Pour a good

dollop in your hands and scrub them well. Rinse and repeat if needed. Seems to

work pretty well for me--but I'm not sure it's equal to habaneros! ;-)

Ldy Diana

Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 10:29:02

From: Christine a Seelye-king

To: Middlebridge

Subject: [Mid] Re: Your dinner is what?

>Ah, if only they'd had capsicums in the Middle Ages.

>Angelica Paganelli

Rest assured my Lady, they did indeed! My Lord is known to his

friends as 'Deadtongue' and has done quite a bit of research into the

firey fruit. Columbus mentions them in the log from his first voyage.

He set out looking for spices from the Indies, and so when he landed, he

inquired as to any article that could be used as a spice or condiment.

From Haiti, he concluded he had found a new type of pepper, stating "From

this island alone, 50 caravels of this article could be loaded every

year."

("Columbus Menu -Italian Cuisine after the First Voyage of Christopher

Columbus" by Stafano Milioni) His physician included the capsicum

pepper in his diary as a medicinal, and samples were brought back on the

first return trip.

I suppose if you are sticking to the strict definition of the

Middle Ages your lament is well founded, but in our period, tongues

were burnin'!

Mistress Christianna MacGrain

Lady to Lord Damon Fox, called Deadtongue

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:27:36 EST

From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain)

Subject: Re: SC - Scoville Units (Home of Pace Picante-OT)

Seeing as we are talking Peppers.

THE CHILE HEAT SCALE - Scoville Units

The substance in chiles that makes them spicy is called capsaicin. It is

concentrated in the veins of the fruit (not the seeds) and stimulates

the nerve endings in your mouth, fooling your brain into thinking you're

in pain. The brain responds by releasing substances called endorphins,

which are similiar in structure to morphine. A mild euphoria results,

and chiles can be mildly addictive because of this hot pepper "high".

Chile hotness is rated in Scoville units. The hottest pepper on record

is the habanero/Scotch bonnet which some claim are the same pepper and

others claim are slightly different varieties. Habaneros are rated at

100,000 to 350,000 Scoville units. By contrast, the lowly serrano comes

in at about 5,000 to 15,000 Scoville units.

Scoville Units are the measurement of capsaicin level (the oil that

makes chiles hot). Although chiles can vary from pod to pod and plant to

plant, listed below is an approximate scale for several varieties of

chiles:

16,000,000 PURE CAPSAICIN

10 100,000 - 350,000 HABANERO; SCOTCH BONNET

9 50,000 - 100,000 SANTAKA; CHILTEPIN; THAI

8 30,000 - 50,000 AJI; CAYENNE; TABASCO; PIQUIN

7 15,000 - 30,000 CHILE DE ARBOL

6 5,000 - 15,000 YELLOW WAX; SERRANO

5 2,500 - 5,000 JALAPENO; MIRASOL

4 1,500 - 2,500 SANDIA; CASCABEL

3 1,000 - 1,500 ANCHO; PASILLA; ESPANOLA

2 500 - 1,000 NEW MEXICO; ANAHEIM; BIG JIM

1 100 - 500 MEXI-BELLS; CHERRY

0 MILD BELLS; SWEET BANANA; PIMENTO

Korrin S. DaArdain

Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr

Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:06:24 -0500

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

"maddie teller-kook" <meadhbh at io.com> writes:

>I'd love to see the documentation on this. Sad that there aren't any

>documentable recipes... could it be the plants were grown for ornament

>instead of food? curious.

>meadhbh