fava-beans-msg - 12/4/11


Fava beans and recipes in period.


NOTE: See also the files: beans-msg, peas-msg, leeks-msg, vegetables-msg, onions-msg, fd-Mid-East-msg, fd-Italy-msg, E-Arab-recip-art.


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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


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Thank you,
  Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                        Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:21:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Fava Beans


In a message dated 97-06-03 19:17:19 EDT, you write:
<< They are a very
pretty plant -- the flowers are white and purplish black. I have a couple
of catalogs at home that sell seeds if you want to try them.  Taste wise
the dry beans have a floury texture, I like.  There are several Roman
recipes featuring favas that are very good so you might check them out.
        You can get fava beans at health food stores as well as  specialty
and eastern markets. >>


Fava beans are quite similar to lima beans in taste and texture only somewhat
stronger. I would caution those of Mediterranean descent to be careful if you
have not eaten these before. People of Mediterranean descent can have
allergic reactions to these beans. It is not deadly  but is extremely
unpleasant. People of non-mediterranean descent are not known to have this
reaction.


Lord Ras




Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:33:47 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re:  SC - Another Novice Recipe Challenge


Hi, Katerine here.


Ah yes, beans.  I've read lots of such recipes, but never made them. Here's
what I'd try first out.


>From the Forme of Cury, recipe # 189:


>"Benes yfryed. Take benes and see6 hem almost til 6ey bersten. Take and
>wryng out 6e water clene. Do 6erto oynouns ysode and ymynced, and garlec
>6erwith; frye hem in oile o6er in grece, & do 6erto powder douce, &
>serue it forth."


My rendering into modern English:


Fried Beans.  Take beans and boil them until they are near bursting.
Press out the water.  Add boiled minced onions and garlic.  Fry them
in oil or grease, and add powder douce, and serve.


Notes:


"Beans" almost certainly mean dried favas.  Onions are always boiled
before using (at least parboiled) in medieval recipes, though why I
couldn't tell you.  It's not clear how the garlic is treated, but I
don't know of any other recipes that don't either grind or mince it.


Nobody knows for certain what precise spices went into powder douce, so
I just pick favorite sweet ones.  Nobody knows for sure whether it
included sugar; it may have varied.


Things that were boiled weren't necessarily boiled in water, and boiling
the beans in broth might add flavor; but the recipe specifies to wring
out *the water*, so I would be disinclined to do that in this case, even
if I didn't like my first version.


There's good reason to believe that salt was sometimes taken for granted,
and we usually salt beans.  But one can salt at the table, so at least
the first time out, I'd make this without and see what I got.


Here's what I'd try first.


Take a couple of cups of favas; rinse, then put in a pot with water to
cover and a little more.  Bring to a boil, reduce heat, and simmer until
they are very soft.  Empty into a collander and press out as much water
as I can without mushing the beans through.


Take two onions.  Mince and boil, then strain out and add to beans.


Take two cloves of garlic.  Whack with a knife to smash and remove outer
cover, then mince.


Put a little olive oil in a pan.  Add garlic as it heats.  When it's hot,
stir in beans and onions.  (I could more accurately have stirred the
garlic in with the beans and onions, but I'm not sure I want to fry
this stuff long enough to be certain that the garlic all gets cooked.


Saute briefly, turning from time to time.


Remove to serving plate.


Mix up some powder douce (for this, I'd try a tsp each sugar and cinnamon,
half a tsp ginger, and a quarter tsp each mace and cloves), and sprinkle
over.


Now find out if it's food.


Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry




Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 13:43:54 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cassoulet


Favas can be either fresh, dried, or canned. I've never seen them
frozen, so far as I know. Mature favas have a fairly tough husk on them.
This is not the seed pod or shell itself, which gets opened to get at
the bean. This is what I believe is termed the cotyledon of the bean. In
any case, if you take some fava beans out of the shell, and cook them,
you may find that they have an unpleasantly tough outer layer, which
makes them a little difficult to deal with if the beans are to be left
even semi-whole. Even fresh favas have this husk on them, except in the
case of really tiny baby ones, where it isn't as tough, and can be
eaten.


If all you can find is dried whole favas, I'll say I have had good
results with boiling them like any other large beans, and then pushing
them through a strainer to separate the pulp from the husks. A Foley or
Mouli food mill, which is really just a colander with a sort of crank
propeller, is also excllent for this. If you want to preserve their
shape, though, you'll need to do this by hand, individually.


Middle Eastern markets are a good place to get split, dried favas, which
are more or less like split peas, and about as easy to work with.


Then, of course, there's the medieval European approach, which is to
make canebyns. These are a preparation of dry favas which consists of
soaking them until they begin to swell up and almost germinate, like
malt. They will split partway out of that leathery husk, and then it is
easier to remove. The beans are then cut into smaller pieces (remember
favas are sometimes an inch long) and toasted to help dry them.


I did a little experimentation to satisfy myself that there was no
enzymatic stuff going on, as the process did rather resemble malting.
I'm sure there was enzymatic stuff going on, but it doesn't seem to have
affected the beans in the short term, especially after cutting them up
and toasting them.


I suspect that the process for making canebyns may have been developed
as a way to make sure the beans were fully dried before they spoiled,
which may well have been an issue in the temperate but rather humid
climate found in some parts of England and France in period. Most of the
canebyn recipes I've seen are English, although I have seen, IIRC, one
or perhaps two that are French.


Speaking as one who has actually made these suckers, I'll say that while
the process works, and is fascinating, I'd just as soon buy split favas
at Charlie Sahadi's in Brooklyn.


Adamantius




Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:19:37 -0400
From: Woeller D <angeliq1 at erols.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans & Saffron


> >I'd just as soon buy split favas at Charlie Sahadi's in Brooklyn.
> >Adamantius
>
> Looking for favas in Middle Eastern markets had not occurred to me. My
> source for inexpensive favas (bulk dried foods in general) went out of
> business a couple of years ago.  I can get whole favas at a local health
> food store (veddy hexpensife) and I can get split favas at a culinary
> store for about half the price of the health food joint.  From your
> advice, I'll opt for the split favas if I can't find them any cheaper.


Bonjour;
Another note about favas- you can buy them already prepared in most
Arabic food stores (often listed as 'Halal Meat' stores)(in VA, at
least), from about $.75 per 15 oz can, and up. I like the 20 oz can,
brand 'Sahadi' that I buy for $1.29 (Yes, they are packed for the
Brooklyn Sahadi Company) They are listed as "Foul Mudammas"(pronounced
more like 'fool' than 'fowl'), rather than 'favas', in some stores, and
are very good.  I'm sure most of you would rather cook them from
scratch, but buying a can to try them before I cook something new gives
me more of an idea what I'm shooting for, and I like to have some on
hand, ready right now.


Hope the info is helpful. Bon Chance
Angelique




Subject: RE: ANST --..Historical references to beans...
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 06:52:59 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>


> Actually, I think originally there were a number of varieties of fava/broad
> beans, most of them now lost.  I simply intended to give a first hand
> description of the ones I have.  If you have any information on time to
> maturity, etc. I'd be delighted to hear it, I have only the vaguest of
> information on growing these.  So far, according to the LE MESNAGIER DE PARIS
> (late 14th century) they are planted about the same time as peas. From an
> illumination, they appear to be an upright plant rather than a vine. And
> that's about all I know for certain.
>
> Raisya Khorivovna


You are correct, the plant is stiff-stemmed and erect.  It also appears
there are a number of modern varieties, but no real information about
medieval varieties.


If you are interested in growing favas, I would start with these web sites:


http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/mv/mv01700.pdf      (please note this
is a pdf document which requires the Acrobat reader)


http://www.efn.org/~rossr/cont.html


If you are interested in cooking favas, I'd start with Stefan's Florilegium:


http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/beans-msg.html


Bear




Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:10:13 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans??  (and thanks)


Jessica Tiffin wrote:
> Please, can one of you American cooks give me an alternative name for fava
> beans?  They ain't known in South Africa under that name.  What do the
> darned things look like?  White?  Brown?  Approximate shape?  All the stuff
> I have on period beans tells me that favas are the most period variety,
> which isn't helping much... :>


Hmmm. You might look for them under the name "broad bean", which, I
gather, is sometimes used in connection with favas, although it's also
used in connection with some New World beans too. "French beans" also is
sometimes used to describe immature favas in some translations of
Apician recipes, but, again, also is used in connection with New World
varieties. But then, of course, most of the world doesn't speak of
everything in its capacity of usefulness in historical recreation, and
doesn't give a hoot about such distinctions.


The dried favas in the markets have been shelled, but tend to be your
usual vaguely kidney-shaped, slightly flattish bean with a slightly
reddish, lentil colored skin when raw, which turns sort of mud brown
when cooked. They will likely be 3/4 to 1 inch (2 to 2 1/2 cm) long, and
perhaps 1/2 inch (1 cm) wide, and the biggest difference between favas
and any other bean I know is their leathery skin: I'm not talking about
the shell or pod, mind you, but the actual skin on each bean, which is
paper-thin (and soft when cooked) on the New World varieties. Unless you
find split favas in a Middle Eastern or other suitable market, the beans
may have to be peeled by hand, unless soaked for a long time before
cooking, almost to the point where they begin to germinate. This will
cause them to burst out of their skins somewhat, and make the whole
process a bit easier.


Fresh favas tend to show up in markets in the pod, which is pale green
and somewhat leathery, looking more or less like a mimosa pod, only much
thicker and slightly waxy.


Not sure what else I can say...cooked fava beans have a texture like
cooked chestnuts, and something of their flavor and color, as well, but
without the sweetness.


You might get some via mail-order or something. The best place to look
locally, if you have access to such, would be a market selling
Mediterranean (i.e. Southern European or Middle Eastern, but
Mediterranean is the new maddeningly vague term usually employed)
groceries.


Adamantius




Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:25:49 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fava beans??  (and thanks)


At 9:40 AM +0200 12/5/98, Jessica Tiffin wrote:
>Please, can one of you American cooks give me an alternative name for fava
>beans?


Broad beans. I think I've also seen them labelled "fabiolo" or something
similiar in Italian or Spanish.


David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/




Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:47:00 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bean Pie


At 12:42 PM -0500 11/10/99, Eric & Mary Ward wrote:
>I have just recently signed onto this listserv & am finding it very
>educational. Now I have a request for the members of the list, if I
>may.
>
>I have been asked to make a 'bean pie' for a feast at our local
>Champions Event.
>I have found some recipes in modern cookbooks for it.
>What I would like to ask is:
>
>It has been requested as a dessert.  Would a bean pie be a dessert?
>Would it be considered 'period' & does anyone have a recipe?


Both of these are worked out recipes from the Miscellany


<snip of chick-pea pie recipe - see peas-msg>


To Make a Tarte of Beans
A Proper Newe Book of Cookery p. 37/C11


Take beanes and boyle them tender in fayre water, then take theym
oute and breake them in a morter and strayne them with the yolckes of
foure egges, curde made of mylke, then ceason it up with suger and
halfe a dysche of butter and a lytle synamon and bake it.


To make short paest for tarte
A Proper Newe Book p. 37/C10


Take fyne floure and a curscy of fayre water and a dysche of swete
butter and a lyttel saffron, and the yolkes of two egges and make it
thynne and as tender as ye maye.


1/2 lb (1 1/4 c) dry fava beans 1/2 c curds (cottage cheese)    6 T butter
4 egg yolks     4 T sugar       4 t cinnamon


Crust:
6 threads saffron crushed in 1 t cool water     5-6 T very soft butter
1 c flour       2 egg yolks


Put beans in 2 1/2 c of water, bring to boil and let sit, covered, 70
minutes. Add another cup of water, boil about 50 minutes, until soft.
Drain beans and mush in food processor. Cool bean paste so it won't
cook the yolks. Mix in yolks; add cottage cheese (do not drain); add
sugar, butter (soft or in small bits) and cinnamon, then mush it all
together to a thick liquid.


To make crust, mix saffron water into flour; add egg yolks and mix
well (will be crumbly). Add 4 T butter and mix well; add enough of
remaining butter to make a smooth paste. (Amount used depends upon
softness of butter and warmth of kitchen.) Roll smooth and place in
9" pie plate. Crimp edge. Pour into raw crust and bake at 350° for
about 50 minutes (top cracks). Cool before eating.


David Friedman
Professor of Law




Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:13:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?


Well, if they can eat fava beans, I've got a nice recipe for a little
tartlet -- it's just out of period (1614).  Personally, I think this
stuff looks and smells hideous, but my husband, who ordinarily won't eat
beans at all, kept raiding my kitchen while I was testing this
recipe. Original is from  The Fruit, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy by
Giacomo Castelvetro,1614, trans
lated by Gillian Riley:


Favetta
Here is another recipe, which is somewhat more refined than the other
two. Cook the beans in water with salt, and put them in a stone mortar
with a little of their cooking liquid, and pound them with a wooden
pestle until they are white as snow.  Serve this favetta hot with olive
oil, pepper and clean, washed raisins.  Some use cinnamon as a seasoning
instead of pepper.


1 can Fava beans
Fresh noodle or pastry dough
1/4 cup raisins + some more
pepper, cinnamon to taste
Olive oil
salt
1 Tbsp honey or to taste


Cook fava beans in water with salt until soft.  Pound them into a paste
with a little of the cooking water "until white as snow". Stir in
raisins, spices, honey, and 2 Tbsp olive oil. Take pastry or noodle
dough, and cut out rounds.  Put a spoonful of puree on each round, add a
few more raisins,  fold and seal. To cook, heat olive oil in frying pan.
Fry on both sides until cooked, drain, sprinkle with sugar, and serve.
One can of beans makes enough 20


toodles, margaret




Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:32:13 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?


Quite a while ago, Lorix wrote:
>... Attending the feast will
>be a couple of people with a variety of food
>preferences and/or allergies.  Now I am fine with
>most things but I am looking for a protein dish
>for a lactose intolerant vegetarian (in this case
>meaning no fish or chicken, butter, cheese or
>other dairy products).


and made it clear later that the dish also had to include no wheat or
eggs. Several people suggested beans; here is my favorite period fava
bean dish. The greens, sage, and figs give it a more interesting
taste than bean dishes usually have.


Fried Broad Beans
Platina p. 115 (book 7)


Put broad beans that have been cooked and softened into a frying pan
with soft fat, onions, figs, sage, and several pot herbs, or else fry
them well rubbed with oil and, on a wooden tablet or a flat surface,
spread this into the form of a cake and sprinkle spices over it. [end
of original]


1 c dried fava beans
6-8 T lard
1/2 c+ onions
2/3 c figs (cut in about 8 pieces)
1/2 t sage
1/2 t salt
pot herbs:  1 1/2 c spinach, packed
1 1/2 c parsley, packed
1 1/2 c mustard greens, packed
1 1/2 c turnip greens


Spices for sprinkling on top: 1/4 t ginger, 1/2 t cinnamon, 1/4 t pepper


Bring beans to a boil in 2 1/2 c water, leave to soak about 1/2 hour,
then simmer another hour, until soft. Drain the beans, mix the whole
mess together and fry it in the lard for 10 minutes, then serve it
forth with spices sprinkled on it. This is also good with
substantially less greens. The original doesn't specify what greens
to use; other greens I have used on occasion include cabbage and
dandelion greens, depending on what I could get.


Elizabeth/Betty Cook




Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 16:32:32 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Fried Broad Beans (was: Suggestions for a mushroom dish?)


I posted Platina's fried broad beans recipe and Sue Clemenger responded:
>That sounds pretty good.  Have you tried both fresh and dried figs? Any
>preference?
>--Maire NiNuanain


I've only done it with dried figs.


Elizabeth/Betty Cook




Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:17:08 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Another 14th c. Cairene enten Dish
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Yeah, yeah, it's well past Lent, but i had this can of cooked dried
favas, and a couple Lenten fava ecipes from that 14th C. Cairene
cookbook... so Tuesday i had a Tharida of favas for lunch...


As for Thurda
Boil peeled fava beans with a little salt until they are done. Cut up
the tharid (crumbled bread) and throw cumin and sumac leaves (?) on
it and lmon juice, walnuts, and sour whey or yogurt, or clarified
butter, or olive oil and sesame oil, and soak it with the fava bean
water and serve.


Here's the recipe broken down:


peeled fava beans
a little salt
tharid (crumbled bread)
cumin
sumac leaves (?)
emon juice
walnuts
sour whey or yogurt, or clarified butter, or olive oil and sesame oil


Peel fava beans.
Boil with a little salt until they are done.
Cut up the tharid (crumbled bread)
Add cumin and sumac leaves (?) on it and lemon juice, walnuts, and
sur whey or substitute.
Moisten it with the fava bean water.
Serve.


Here's what i actually did:


1/2 of a 29 oz can medium-small fava beans [i believe these were
cooked dried beans]
cumin, ground
sumac, crushed
lemon juice - one lemon - i like things tartchopped walnuts, almonds, and hazelnuts - a few spoonsful
olive oil and sesame oil
artisanal Italian bread sandwich mini-loaf, made with flour, water,
yeast, sugar, and salt
a little salt


Open can - remove 1/2 fava beans to sauce pan with slotted spoon.
dd to favas in sauce pan some cumin, sumac, lemon juice, nuts, and
olive and sesame oils.
[I used the chopped nuts that were left over from the Lenten cabbage
i'd made a couple weeks ago.]
Warm on medium-low fire, stirring periodically.
While beans are waming, tear up the bun.
When things in the pot look right, taste and adjust seasoning.
Then add the bread and half the fava bean water from the can.
When bread is soft and mushy, add salt to taste and eat.


Yeah, this is almost as vague as the original. It was simple,
"peasanty" and tasty. I can probably pin some measures down if anyone
wants me to.


It would have been *very* different with fresh rather than dried favas.




Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:33:01 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Edamame
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


So, the subject is a bit misleading, but it got some people's
attention I am sure.


This weekend I attended an all camping event and participate in a
culinary capacity in the Artisan's Row. It was great fun and I am
working on improving my skills in cooking in more primitive
conditions. (read not a full kitchen).


We stopped by our local farmer's market to pick up fresh bread and
veggies on the way out of town and I perused the odder offerings. They
had both fresh fava beans and fresh garbanzo beans available - so I
bought some of each to play with. The fava beans did not make it out
of the cooler except to be show and tell - but the garbanzo beans
participated in supper.


They come in pods that bear a strong resemblance to tiny green
eggplants with paper thin skin. You remove the pods and the pea itself
still has a white skin around it. Since it was an impulse pulse
purchase I did not have a game plan for preparing them so I decided to
go with terribly simple to get an idea of what they taste like.


I boiled up some salty water and blanched them for a bit (actually my
student did this, I was called off to herald court, but that is a long
story) and then just served them in a bowl. The skins slip off like
blanched almond skins. And my husband ate them skins and all.


They were very tasty and very much like the edamame that we get in
sushi bars. I would love to serve them at a feast - but do not know if
they would have been eaten this fresh. Most garbanzo bean recipes I
have come across involve cooking the ever loving crap out of them and
then mushing them. But possibly this is because they were frequently
dried.


The other difficulty would be that they are only very rarely
available. But while they were fresh - I would think they would have
eaten them. Has anyone ever played with them? I was wondering if I
could buy a bunch of them while they are here, blanch them and then
freeze them - just like the edamame that I get in the store? Any
thoughts on how this would work - and how long they would be good for?


--Serena da Riva




Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:36:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: fava beans
To: sca-cooks at ansteora.org


The other difficulty would be that they are only very rarely available. But while they were fresh - I would think they would have eaten them. Has anyone ever played with them? I was wondering if I could buy a bunch of them while they are here, blanch them and then freeze them - just like the edamame that I get in the store? Any thoughts on how this would work - and hw long they would be good for?


--Serena da Riva


============================================================


Serena,


Fava beans have a long history in Italian cooking. There's a reason why  
they re eaten cooked, not fresh — a disease called favism; here's a  
technical definition of what it is:


http://www.g6pd.org/favism/english/index.mv?pgid=intro


Because the disease is a genetic one, those who eat the fresh, raw  
beans don't know until they get sick. This is why Pythagoras told his  
students, "Avoid fava beans." Cooking the hell out of them seems to  
lessen the danger, although those with the genetic disorder would be  
better off avoiding the beans all together.


Gianotta




Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:26:45 +0000
From: eirenetz at cocast.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: fava beans
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I just cooked them at a feast.


Hmmm.....


(shuffling papers...)


To Fry Beanes, A Proper New Booke of Cookery, 1575


Take your beanes and boyle them, & put them into a frying pan with a  
dish of butter, & one or two Oynions, and so let hem frye till they be
brown al together, then cast a little salt upon them, and then serue  
them forth.


They're really goood. We used dried, but I imagine fresh would work as  
well.


Eirene




Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More about fava beans ...
To: eirenetz at comcast.net, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

It occurred to me that if this disease exists in regions where eating  
fava beans is prevalent, why the heck would people eat them at all?


I found out some interesting things.


Essentially, the regions where the genetic defect exists are  
malaria-prone, and having this defect makes you less tasty to malaria  
parasites (there being less oxygen in your blood). Fava beans have  
compounds in them similar to those of quinines (folks with favism have  
the same reactions to these drugs), and in folks without the defect,  
favas work to lower blood oxygen levels and offer malaria protection.  
Those who are passive carriers of the gene but do not suffer from  
favism get even more protection from eating fava beans.


It's a fairly rare genetic defect in the United States, but I would let  
folks know about favism if you're going to be serving fava beans at a  
feast, as a caution to those whose ancestry makes them Southern  
Mediteranean. I don't know if the compounds that trigger favism are  
entirely destroyed in the cooking process.


Gianotta




Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:39:46 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Edamame
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com> wrote:
> fresh garbanzo beans...
>
> I boiled up some salty water and blanched them for a bit...
> ...and then just served them in a bowl. The skins slip off like
> blanched almond skins. And my husband ate them skins and all.
>
> ...I would love to serve them at a feast - but do not know if
> they would have been eaten this fresh....


In Recipe 30 of his cookbook, Meister Eberhard says
"Chickpeas and peas that are green should not be eaten, as they cause
bad moisture in people." (transl. by Giano)


Of course, this doesn't mean people didn't eat them green, but if
this attitude existed in many places, it will make it harder to find
out.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:53:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


The recipe from the Andalusian cookbook, the translation of which is  
being debated, got me thinking about this.


There's makke from the Form of Curye. There's maccu from Sicily. Both  
of these are meatless, but the Sicilian version calls for olive oil  
and fennel, not wine and fried onions. There's the Spanish Andalusian  
version, which has meat, but is flavored with fennel, onions, and  
garlic. In Liguria, pureed favas are made into a paste with pecorino  
cheese and spread on bread. Sort of an Italian hummus. Platina has  
fava cakes (incidentally, according to my dad, my great-grandmother  
liked to take cold maccu, slice it up, and fry it). But essentially  
all these recipes are a puree of favas. A look at the Florilegium  
shows many more pureed fava recipes from period throughout Europe and  
the Middle East.


Gianotta




Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 13:26:00 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Uses for fava beans....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


> In the same aisle with said peas (they didn't have yellow ones, so I settled
> for green), were bags of dried fava beans! They look a bit like limas on
> steroids--range in size from the tip of my index finger to the tip of my
> thumb, and are sort of a medium golden color.
> I'd like to try some experiments with them, but the only period recipe that
> I'm remembering right now is the "Beans Y-Fried" recipe (with fresh
> ones???).  Anyone have any recommendations, favorite recipes, etc.?


Fuliyyah isn't bad--it's in the Miscellany. We have several other
fava bean recipes, but except for Makke and the one you mentioned
they use fresh favas.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com




Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:39:56 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Uses for fava beans....
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


There are several tasty but simple recipes in "The Book of the
Description of Familiar Foods", a 14th c. manuscript that includes
all of al-Baghdadi, the recipes from the "expanded version" of
al-Baghdadi, and many new ones.


I cooked the ones that are in the chapter that has recipes "for monks
and Christians in Lent" in Spring of this year - even won a Wooden
Spoon competition (well, ok, tied with a cooking Laurel, so we both
got spoons).


I posted to this list the layered dish in which i used fresh favas -
it would be different with dried, but still edible - Maghmuma, i
think was the name - i'll look it out in the morning. This was
somewhat complicated. The ingredients (all vegetables) are cut up and
layered in the cooking pot separately, each layer is sprinkled with
spices as it's added, then when they're all in the pot, the liquids
are poured in, and it's cooked without stirring...


I'm not sure if i posted the other recipes. I'll look for them in the
AM too. I used canned favas where were "reconstituted" dried ones.
The resultant dishes were simple, filling, and satisfying for a cold
evening. The recipes included bread, vinegar, and murri (ok, sounds
drab, but i really liked it).


Light soy sauce is a very acceptable substitute according to Charles
Perry who made murri from scratch - moldy damp barley loaves - etc. I
finally got to read his articles about the process that were in the
LA Times, minus the photos of the loaves, alas - they had *names* -
including Spot, Whiskers, Skinhead, and Pigpen... anyway, the final
product tasted a lot like a somewhat less "rich" soy sauce. Some
Asian soy sauces are about 50 per cent grain, and those - or lesser
varieties that use even more grain - would be closer to murri than a
good aged tamari (yes, Virginia, tamari tastes significantly
different from the average Kikkoman, which is rather more watery)
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita




Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 09:17:12 -0500
From: wildecelery at aol.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Fava Beans
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


There's a nice fava bean salad recipe, which i believe comes from
Apicius, but it may be Cato.


-Ardenia




Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:26:29 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Uses for fava beans....
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


There are a number of varieties of favas, some large, some small.  Pliny
comments on them.  Apicius has recipes.  Martino has recipes.  And, IIRC,
they appear in the inventory of one of Charlemagne's villas.  To quote
Martial, "...fava beans, the food of laborers,..." (10, 48); and "...pale
fava beans with rosy bacon." (5, 78).


From a quick look at the evidence, fava beans were in common use from
Antiquity through the Renaissance.  They were an everyday food of commoners
and nobility (who have a number of recipes to improve them for the noble
palate). The beans were planted in winter or early spring (being the first
pulse planted, Pliny), eaten fresh through the growing season and dried for
winter use.  Use wasn't seasonal, but the various dishes may have been
regional.


Bear


> Huh! I wonder if they're exceptionally young (and maybe more tender), or
> perhaps favas have different strains that come in different sizes? The dried
> ones in my bag are quite a bit bigger than a pistachio!
> Would dishes with fava beans in them have been a seasonal/regional  
> thing then?
> --Maire




Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:36:11 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Uses for fava beans....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


> Would dishes with fava beans in them have been a seasonal/regional  
> thing then?
> --Maire


Jannâniyya (the Gardener's Dish)
Andalusian p. A-52


... If you make it in spring, then [use] lettuce,
fennel, peeled fresh fava beans, spinach, Swiss
chard, carrots, fresh cilantro and so on, ...
--
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com




Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:54:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Winter comfort food and uses for fava beans
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


So long as the topic of fava beans is up, I'd just like to mention again that cooks who use them in their menus should caution male diners of strong Meditteranean descent (Southern Italian, Greek, North African) about favism. Yes, it's rare here, but favas are not that popular a food item. What with immigration and loss of contacts over in the old country, folks tend to forget that Great Uncle Salvatore may have died after having a nice spring fava salad.


Gianotta




Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:22:23 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Makke vs. maccu
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


I was going through Cariadoc's Miscellany when I found the recipe for  
makke:


Makke
Form of Cury p. 41/A21
Take drawn beans and sethe them well. Take them up of the water and  
cast them in a mortar. Grind them all to doust till they be white as  
any milk, chawf a little red wine, cast thereamong in the grinding,  
do thereto salt, leshe it in dishes, then take onions and mince them  
small and sethe them in oil till they be all brown. And flourish the  
dish therewith. And serve it forth.


1 cup pea beans, dry
1/2 c red wine
1 t salt
2 large onions
enough oil to fry the onions


Soak the beans overnight then simmer 4-6 hours until tender. Chop up  
the onions fairly fine. Drain the beans, use a food processor to  
puree. Heat the wine and add it. Put the beans in each dish, put the  
fried onions over them. Broad beans (fava beans) would be more  
authentic than pea beans, but we have not yet tried them in this recipe.


Then there's a traditional Sicilian fava bean soup called "maccu:"


3/4 pound dried fava beans
Salt and pepper
Water
olive oil
small bunch of fennel leaves, chopped


(optional) 1 large onion, chopped, and fried


Take the dried beans and soak them overnight; drain the beans, and  
put them into enough water to cover them well. Simmer them about an  
hour and a half, until they are soft enough to mash. Mash them well  
with a spoon, season with the salt and pepper, and continue cooking  
until they are like a thick cream (add more water if you want a  
thinner soup). The last 20 minutes or so of cooking, sprinkle some of  
the fennel into the soup. Serve drizzled with olive oil, sprinkled  
with the remaining fennel, and if you want, fried onion. You can also  
serve this soup over pasta.


That's one of the most basic recipe for maccu that I have seen. Other  
maccu recipes for St. Joseph's Day that I have seen use lentils and  
chickpeas in addition to favas; essentially whatever dried legumes  
the housewife had left in her cupboard.


The Latin for "to mash" being "macerare," which got into Italian as  
"maccare," I'm guessing that's where the name "maccu"/"makke" comes  
from ... maybe this dish probably dates back to Roman times?


Can anyone here with a copy of Apicius (Vehling translation or not)  
point me toward recipes in that that are similar? Lentil pottage or  
spicy mushy peas?


Gianotta




Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:48:22 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Makke vs. maccu
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


I tell people this is "Medieval Frijoles Refritos" and they get yummed
up. Hehehe.  I need to get that pulled pork recipe from Baroness
Muirath that we made last year's Twelfth Night that we called "Medieval
Carnitas" and wheaten flat breads and really do a "Medieval Food That
You Already Like" meal!


I'll go hit various editions of Apicius when I get home from work and
try to answer your actual question, if someone hasn't done so before  
then.


Sneaky Selene


Christiane wrote:
> I was going through Cariadoc's Miscellany when I found the recipe  
> for makke:
>
> Makke
> Form of Cury p. 41/A21
> Take drawn beans and sethe them well. Take them up of the water and  
> cast them in a mortar. Grind them all to doust till they be white  
> as any milk, chawf a little red wine, cast thereamong in the  
> grinding, do thereto salt, leshe it in dishes, then take onions and  
> mince them small and sethe them in oil till they be all brown. And  
> flourish the dish therewith. And serve it forth.
> 1 cup pea beans, dry?1/2 c red wine?1 t salt?2 large onions?enough  
> oil to fry the onions
> Soak the beans overnight then simmer 4-6 hours until tender. Chop  
> up the onions fairly fine. Drain the beans, use a food processor to  
> puree. Heat the wine and add it. Put the beans in each dish, put  
> the fried onions over them. Broad beans (fava beans) would be more  
> authentic than pea beans, but we have not yet tried them in this  
> recipe.




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:28:18 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


> So does anyone have any theories about why feasts that could  
> feature favas, do not?


I think the main reason is that dried favas can be a bit hard to
come by. I wound up making makke for my Laurel's Prize Tourney entry
and used giant red kidney beans instead because I couldn't find favas.


Favas can also be a little bit of a problem because you have to remove the
husks from them once cooked and this can be rather time consuming with
a large feast.


And lastly, we get tired of hearing Hannibal Lecter jokes.


> Gianotta


Gunthar




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:32:50 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


On Sep 10, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Christiane wrote:
> So does anyone have any theories about why feasts that could
> feature favas, do not?


One reason might be their comparative rarity in "American" cookery,
compared to the various haricot beans, which might easily translate
directly into availability in the markets, except for certain
"ethnic" communities.


Another might be their comparative difficulty in preparation: unless
you can get them split and hulled (canebyns, anyone?), they're kind
of a pain in some cases because of their secondary skin which is
rather tough. Much worse than, say, a chick pea. You might be able to
cook them until really soft and then run them through a food mill,
but in quantity, again, it's a fair amount of work. Unless you can
get them hulled and split, but then, see above.


It might have a bit to do with favism and status, too. It does seem
pretty clear that haricot beans really seem to have entered common
usage in late period Europe before many other New World products, and
even some very old traditional European classics, dishes like
cassoulet and such, really seem as if they were simply waiting for a
new bean to come around.


Adamantius




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:41:29 -0400
From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


In my area I can find fava beans (dried) at the military commissaries or I
can travel a minimum of 90 minutes to another town to get them in cans... we
served a delicious (not my recipe!) fava bean soup last January but with the
difficulty in getting the beans, probably won't again.


Hrothny




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:28:49 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


--On Monday, September 10, 2007 1:18 PM -0400 "Jadwiga Zajaczkowa /  
Jenne Heise" <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net> wrote:


>> Admittedly I have not been to that many feasts, but I've been to a few
>> major and minor events over the years. Is it because favas are harder
>> to get than other beans, and there is a general unawareness of them?
>
> I can get favas fresh, frozen and dried-- but I go to ethnic markets.
> You aren't going to find them at Shop-Rite generally, which I  
> expect is the issue. Haven't found canned favas.


Odd -- I've found them canned in most grocery stores around Pittsburgh. My
local grocery store has been carrying fresh favas for the past month  
or so, too.


I think a lot of folks don't use favas because they aren't familiar, but
also because they are afraid of the allergy issue:


"Favism is a genetic disorder which involves the lack of a blood enzyme.
Eating fava beans (broad beans) or inhaling pollen of the bean plants will
produce favism, a hemolytic (blood) disease. General symptoms are fatigue,
extreme paleness, nausea, abdominal and/or back pain, fever, chills and
difficulty breathing. Symptoms in severe cases are jaun-dice, renal failure
and hemoglobinuria (hemoglobin in the urine). Onset time for favism is 5 to
24 hours. Recovery occurs when further exposure is avoided."
("Food Allergies"
<http://www.healthgoods.com/education/nutrition_information/
Nutrition_and_Health/food_allergies.htm>)


Given that some number of folks of Mediteranian (sp) background lack this
enzyme, and many have probably never eaten fava beans, I think there is a
certain fear of triggering something nasty.


toodles, margaret




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:58:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


I served them in a Spanish feast at K&Q Fencing Champions in January  
2003. I used split dried favas, which I bought at the International  
Food Warehouse in Lodi, NJ.  They did not have hulls to be removed,  
but did require parboiling to take away a certain bitterness.


I can also get canned favas, and (frozen) green fava beans; neither  
is cost-effective for cooking in large quantities.


Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:35:33 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


In Spain fresh baby favas are available in the spring. The outer husk is
so tender it does not have to be shelled but we remove the pods before
cooking. In other households the pods are cooked after shelling. I find
them bitter but it would be more economical if I did so. Frozen baby
fava beans are sold year round in Spain without the pods. In Chile the
same but they are so big that they are uneatable without shelling.  The
family of course prefers the fresh baby favas. I think that the
availability of the type of fava and price you are looking for in your
area would sway your opinion as to whether to prepare them for a banquet
or not.


Suey




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:59:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: "Christiane" <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, "Cooks within the
SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


In my case, it's hard to find a large enough quantity at a reasonable price.
My local market that catered to international students has gone under and
the other sources are ridiculously expensive.  While I don't use them at
feasts, I have experimented with favas, and, to be honest, I prefer
chickpeas and blackeyed peas.


Bear




Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:09:10 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fava bean recipes
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


Gianotta wrote:
[snippety-doo-dah]
> I have never seen anything with favas at an East Kingdom feast,
> which seems a shame considering all of the period recipes featuring
> favas. Admittedly I have not been to that many feasts, but I've been
> to a few major and minor events over the years. Is it because favas
> are harder to get than other beans, and there is a general
> unawareness of them? Is it fear of favism?
>
> So does anyone have any theories about why feasts that could feature
> favas, do not?


We have favas at feasts sometimes, here in The West. In one dish, the
cooks did not peel each bean, which made the dish unpleasant.


I can get a number of varieties of dried favas (small and large),
canned favas, and fresh favas. I haven't used the dried, but i have
used canned (for personal use) and fresh (for feasts).


First, like any pea or bean, the favas must be removed from the pods.
That's not a big deal. But each bean must be peeled. With fresh
beans, this works best if they are blanched. With dried, it's better
to peel them after soaking them but before cooking. The dried beans
are much more... mmm... floury... carbohydratey than the fresh.


I have no idea why no one's using them in Eastern feasts. It can't be
hard to get them dried or canned in Spanish, French, Italian, North
African, Egyptian, and Lebanese markets. And i'd bet that people can
find them fresh in some places.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita




Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:18:03 -0600
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] As to favas
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


A while back we had a discussion of fava beans and
the difficulty in using them in feasts.


Well, I have to take a step back on my former assertions.
Here in Dallas, Elizabeth and I visited a terrific little Middle
Eastern/Morroccan grocery store and cafe. There we found
favas in all styles.  One of the best parts is that they are
now selling the favas pre-husked so the hard papery
shell covering is gone. They were only around $1.99 per
pound and double in size when soaked.


The favas were soaked and then cooked. The smell is....
different. I guess to a period nose they smell like home
cookin. The taste is nice with a slight bitter aftertaste.
I made makke and the end result is a little grainy and
almost a field pea flavor. Of the three varieties of beans
I've used for makke (Kidney, Great Northern, Fava) I like
the kidney beans best. But the favas are definately more
period.


So, if you can find a good ME market you can get favas
canned, fresh or dried and husked. My next project will
be benes yfried.


Gunthar




Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:20:57 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetables and are you all still there?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Eduardo wrote:
<<< OH and the beans and figs and onions also from Martino.
I would be interested in hearing if others have tried this recipe and
what beans they used. >>>


Why, the beans they used then, of course... fava beans :-) I suppose
the dish could be made with black-eyed peas, too. Most beans, as we
know them today, are New World. While it appears that some New World beans were adopted by Europeans in the 16th C. (I'm not sure which ones... Bear? Adamantius? Anyone else?), Martino, being 15th C., would not have had them.


I confess that i was served this dish at a feast, the cooks didn't
peel the fava beans, and it was most unpleasant. In my opinion, the
problem with the dish lay with the cooks, not the recipe. Favas,
fresh or dried and soaked, need to be peeled before serving.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


<the end>