onions-msg - 3/23/10
Period onions. Scallions, shallots, green onions, leeks.
NOTE: See also the files: root-veg-msg, leeks-msg, vegetables-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, onion-soups-msg, cutting-onions-msg.
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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Onions
<< Any idea why you would Parboil the onions first? It doesn't really make
sense to me, I think they would lose a bit of their flavor if you did it?
>>
Parboiling onions first reduces their cooking time in the final product and
assures that they will be done. It also reduces some of the stronger flavors.
Modern onion varieties have been bred for sweetness among other things.
Period onions and some heirloom onions were/are very strong flavored and need
this extra treatment to make them more palatable to some. Also "the , IMHO,
awful tasting but more healthy tender-crisp" style of vegies in modern
cuisine is an alien concept when looking at period cookery.
Lord Ras
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:15:20 -0600
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - Apricot Chicken Recipe
<snip>
I was delighted to find a Rev. War re-enactor, who just "discovered" the
SCA, cooked Apricot Chicken over the campfire for his turn at our camp meal
at Pennsic. Along with it he served roasted onions: Cover whole onions
(slice off only the top. leave on the brown skin layers) with foil and place
in the coals until soft. To serve, open the foil, carefully (hot!) squeze
the brown skin and the onion will pop right out onto your plate. Serve with
butter or salt and pepper, or plain if desired. Amazingly simply and
incredibly good. For some reason it doesn't work in the oven at home quite
as well.
Aoife
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 98 16:11:43 PST
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Apricot Chicken Recipe
: Along with it he served roasted onions: Cover whole onions
: (slice off only the top. leave on the brown skin layers) with foil and place
: in the coals until soft.
I do the same with onions except I cut a cone into the root end as well as
slice off the top, and pack the cone with spices complimentary to the rest
of my food and pack with butter. Try that as a variation- the spices
permeate the onion flesh- most tasty.
From: "E. L. Wimett" <SILVERDRAGON at Charleston.Net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recipe Help Requested
Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:39:17 GMT
Nyani-Iisha Martin <nfmartin at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> David Friedman (DDFr at best.com) wrote:
> : aelfwyn at aol.com (Aelfwyn) wrote:
> : >Can anyone tell me if simple roasted/baked onions would be within period?
> : I don't know of any such recipes. As a general rule, it makes more sense
> : to find recipes in period cookbooks and cook them instead of inventing
> : recipes (or finding modern ones) and then desperately searching for
> : "documentation."
>
> Hmmm. However, would any and all recipes be in a period cookbook?
>
> What I mean is, the impression that my reading about medieval cooking gave
> me was that they would have written down recipes for unusual things. A
> basic dish like baked onions, any cook could make, so why record a recipe
> for that? Of course, I could be wrong in that impression, which is why I'm
> asking.
>
> Also....not every cook cooks only from recipes; I often don't. Is it
> possible for someone who has been practicing medieval cooking for years to
> have a good idea of the "style" and make up their own recipes? Or is that
> simply too slack of a practice and every dish must be documented?
There is at least some support for simple onion preparation in period,
judging by the listing in the Tacuinum Sanitatis (edition by Luisa Arano).
In the Paris manuscript (as translated by Arano), the description reads: "
Nature: ...warm in the fourth degree, moist in the third. Optimum: The
white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They are diuretic and
facilitate coitus. Danger: They cause headaches. Neutralization of the
dangers: with vinegar and milk."
In the Vienna manuscript this is somewhat expanded: " Nature: Warm in the
fourth degree, moist in the third degree, dry at other times. Optimum: The
white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They soften the nature,
provoke urine, increase coitus, and sharpen the eyesight. Danger: They
cause headaches. Effects: They generate milk and sperm and are good for
cold temperaments, for very old people, in Winter, and in Northerly
regions."
What does this tell us (other than that period cooks would think onions
most appropriate for a lover's feast, despite modern prejudices)? The
reference to the use of milk and vinegar to avert the negative effects of
the unmodified onions suggests that at least onions poached in milk or
marinated in vinegar would have been common usages.
I suspect very strongly that this derives from the tradition enshrined in
Apicius since many of the elements here (aphrodisiac nature, use of
vinegar, etc.) are found there as well. He provides several simple and
complex recipes in Book VII for cooking onions, boiled, parboiled and
fried, fried with wine sauce, etc.
From: DDFr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recipe Help Requested
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:01:58 -0800
Organization: Santa Clara University
"E. L. Wimett" <SILVERDRAGON at Charleston.Net> wrote:
>There is at least some support for simple onion preparation in period,
>judging by the listing in the Tacuinum Sanitatis (edition by Luisa Arano).
>
>In the Paris manuscript (as translated by Arano), the description reads: "
>Nature: ...warm in the fourth degree, moist in the third. Optimum: The
>white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They are diuretic and
>facilitate coitus. Danger: They cause headaches. Neutralization of the
>dangers: with vinegar and milk."
>What does this tell us (other than that period cooks would think onions
>most appropriate for a lover's feast, despite modern prejudices)? The
>reference to the use of milk and vinegar to avert the negative effects of
>the unmodified onions suggests that at least onions poached in milk or
>marinated in vinegar would have been common usages.
I don't think so.
It tells us that having milk or vinegar in a dish with onions would have
been recommended by at least some period physicians. But that tells us
nothing at all about whether they were eaten by themselves, nor how they
were prepared. It is not "support for simple onion preparation" --for all
we know (from Tacitas Sanitatem) the onions, milk and vinegar were going
to be combined in some elaborate dish. Nor does it suggest poaching in
milk or marinating in vinegar.
Some modern writers argue for combining rice and beans, for nutritional
reasons. But that tells us nothing about what the particular dishes would
have been like, other than those ingredients.
Arval writes:
>In fact, my impression from Cariadoc's discussion is that there are more
>than enough period recipes available to keep anyone busy for a lifetime.
Several. I think _Manuscrito Anonimo_ alone would be adequate for a
reasonably active SCA cook over his active lifetime. And I would like to
be at the feast held to celebrate the completion of the project.
The two volume collection of primary source material that I sell currently
contains about 1500-1600 pages (reduction copied down--volume I is four
pages to a page, Volume II is two), although with a little duplication of
recipes across sources. And that includes almost none of the Elizabethan
cookbooks, since I'm not really interested in Nouvelle Cuisine and they
(Eleanor Fettiplace et. al.) are pretty readily available. At a rough
guess, other things currently available in English would add another
thousand pages or so--not counting the 17th century cookbooks. Things I
have in the original that have not been translated would add another two
thousand pages, at a very rough guess.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:56:38 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Here are couple of Tuscan recipes that caught my eye in The Medieval Kitchen
(early birthday present from my darling wife). They should transport well
without refrigeration, cook up easily on an open fire and be scalable. BTW,
I didn't see anything about the size of this feast. How many people are you
serving?
Bear
Of onion salad. Take onions; cook them in the embers, then peel them and
cut them across into longish, thin slices; add a little vinegar, salt, oil,
and spices, and serve.
2 pounds medium sweet onions (about 6)
olive oil
wine vinegar
scant 1/2 teaspoon fine spices (see below)
salt
pepper
Put the onions into the coals and let roast until tender (I'd estimate 30
minutes to 1 hour. Select one onion and test it every so often with a fork.
Be sure they are done, Ras can not abide half-baked onions.) Remove from
the fire, peel and cut into thin slices with a sharp knife. Put the onions
in a salad bowl, season with salt, pepper, and spices. Add oil and vinegar
to taste.
Fine spice mixture:
2 rounded Tablespoons freshly ground black pepper
2 rounded Tablespoons ground cinnamon
2 rounded Tablespoons ground ginger
1 1/2 Tablespoons saffron threads, loosely measured, crushed to powder
3/4 teaspoon ground cloves
<snip of mushroom recipe>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:05:21 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Onion pottage (was: Spanish Period Food)
At 9:51 PM -0800 2/14/99, Elizabeth Pruyn wrote:
>I am new to the list and have not seen the onion pottage recipe before.
>May I please have a copy of it?
Potage of Onions Which They Call "Cebollada"
Libro de Guisados, 1528, tr. Robin Carroll-Mann
(Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba, Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom)
Take peeled onions which are well washed and clean and cut them in thick
slices, and cast them in a pot of boiling water, and then having let them
come to a boil once or twice, take them out of the pot and press them
between two wooden chopping boards and them fry them gently with good lard
or with bacon grease, stirring with a little shovel and moving it about in
the frying pan with the aforementioned little shovel which should be of
wood. And if the onions dry up, cast in some good fatty mutton broth until
the onions are well cooked. And then take almonds which are well peeled and
white and grind them well in a mortar and then dissolve them in good mutton
broth and pass them through a woolen strainer and then cast the almond milk
in the pot with the onions and mix it well, and cook them well until the
onions are cooked in the almond milk, and cast good grated cheese from
Aragon in the pot, and stir well with a stirrer as if they were gourds, and
when they are well mixed with the cheese and you see that it is cooked,
prepare dishes, first casting into the pot a pair of egg yolks for each
dish, and upon the dishes cast sugar and cinnamon if you wish; and it is
good.
2 1/2 c lamb broth from 1 lb 10 oz onions 4 egg yolks
2 oz lamb fat and trimmings 1 T bacon fat or lard 1 t sugar
1/2 c almonds 2 1/2 oz parmesan cheese 1/8 t cinnamon
Put lamb trimmings in 4 c water and simmer an hour or so for broth. Blanch
almonds (put into boiling water briefly, remove, and squeeze almond out of
brown skin). Peel and slice onions. Grate cheese. Separate eggs. Grind
almonds fine and use 2 c of the lamb broth to make almond milk from them,
straining through cheesecloth. Bring 4 c water to a boil; add sliced
onions, bring back to a boil, let boil a minute or two and then remove from
heat and drain. Squeeze the onions between two wooden boards and drain off
the juice. Heat bacon fat, add onions and fry for 10 minutes; add 1/2 c
broth and cook another 5-10 minutes. Add almond milk, simmer about another
10 minutes. Stir in grated cheese; as soon as it is melted, add egg yolks,
stir them in and remove from heat. Put into serving bowl, mix cinnamon and
sugar and sprinkle over the top.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:16:31 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - RE: Onions
Margarite asked:
> I'm wondering about the difference between onions today and those in
> period. What varieties were available? Are red onions period?
I took an interesting class from Raisya Khorivoyna from Ansteorra at Pennsic
on "The Carolingian Garden". In her handout, which I hope to have in the
Florilegium soon, she mentions in her lists of plants:
"Capitulare de Villis" (800AD): leeks, onions, welsh onions, shallots
"St. Gall Plan (820AD)": leeks, onions, shallots
Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
at least, thought came from Wales?
- --
Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:54:00 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
> at least, thought came from Wales?
I believe Flower and Rosenbaum refer to Welsh onion in the translation
of Apicius, who would certainly not have known them as such, so
presumably Charlemagne didn't either. I believe they're a long-bladed
onion somewhere in between what we'd think of as a scallion or green
onion, which some people call shallots, and an actual shallot, the
purplish kind. If you've seen full-grown ramps they're pretty similar.
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:19:18 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
Welsh onions are sometimes known as "Egyptian" onions or sprouting onions.
These are tall plants, which the onions(about the size of a modern boiling
onion) form on the tips of the stalks like flowers, in clusters.
Lady Katherine McGuire
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:44:03 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
pat fee wrote:
> Welsh onions are sometimes known as "Egyptian" onions or sprouting onions.
> These are tall plants, which the onions(about the size of a modern boiling
> onion) form on the tips of the stalks like flowers, in clusters.
>
> Lady Katherine McGuire
Oh, okay. I've seen these locally. The Asian markets around here call
them garlic chives, and they're sold in baby and mature varieties. for
more botanical information try:
http://www.island.wsu.edu/CROPS/JAPANESE.htm
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:58:22 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - RE: Onions
> Stefan li Rous wrote:
> > Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
> > at least, thought came from Wales?
>
> I believe Flower and Rosenbaum refer to Welsh onion in the translation
> of Apicius, who would certainly not have known them as such, so
> presumably Charlemagne didn't either. I believe they're a long-bladed
> onion somewhere in between what we'd think of as a scallion or green
> onion, which some people call shallots, and an actual shallot, the
> purplish kind. If you've seen full-grown ramps they're pretty similar.
>
> Adamantius
Root identifies Welsh onion as Allium fistulosum. It is a primative form of
onion which does not form a bulb, but has the bottom part of its stem
thicken. The name is a corruption of a German word meaning foreign. The
Welsh onion did not arrive in Wales until 1629.
The German word is probably related to welsch, meaning roughly southern or
to or from the southern lands (Roman, Latin, French, Italian. etc.).
Bear
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:23:20 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
The onions we know today as "Egyptian" are a cross breed of a similar type
of "branching" onion found in Wales in the middle ages. The "Egyptian"
onions were brought back from the third crusade, by monks, because they
resembled "native onions" However the crossing of these plans took much
from the Welsh parent and the "offspring didn't much resemble the Egyptian
onion. Then in the 19th century the true "Egyptian" onion was re introduced
into Europe. If you saw the two side by side you could see the difference.
The egyptian one does resemble garlic chives, while the Welsh onion
produces more shallot like "fruit" and is a considerably bigger and stronger
plant. The "fruit being sometimes almost purple in color, with a very
strong flavor.
The only places that onions described in one post as being long leaves
with unformed bulbs growing in the ground, is parts of England and New
England in the US. This name has come to mean the onion that the rest of us
here call green or spring onions.
Lady Katherine McGuire
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:35:58 +1200
From: Phil Anderson <hairy at sloth.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
katherine writes:
>If you saw the two side by side you could see the
>difference. The egyptian one does resemble garlic chives, while the
>Welsh onion produces more shallot like "fruit" and is a considerably
>bigger and stronger plant.
I suspect there are some differences in local terminology hitting this
thread. I have both garlic chives and Egyptian "walking" onions (aka
Cthulhu plants) in my garden. They're both green and edible, but that's
about where the resemblance stops.
Egyptian onions are more like spring onions than anything else, but their
tubular leaves have thicker walls, and they grow onion bulbs on stalks,
which sprout more stalks, which bear more bulbs... until the whole
edifice falls over and the bulbs take root.
Garlic chives are onsiderably smaller (roughly chive-sized, surprisingly)
with solid leaves with a narrow D-shaped cross-section.
Edward Long-hair
Southron Gaard, Caid
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:41:33 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Walking onions revisited-info
Subj: Re: Gurney's: Request for Information
Date: 9/14/99 5:13:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: info at gurneys.com (Gurney's Customer Service)
To: LrdRas at aol.com (L. J. Spencer, Jr.)
I sent a request about the Walking onion question we touched on a couple of
days ago to the company I originally purchased them from. Now we know the
facts. This is the response I received:
Dear Gurney Gardener:
Egyptian walking onions are indeed different from garlic chives. The
onions are in the aggregatum group of the Allium cepa species. The Chives
are in the Allium tuberosum species.
Gail
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:43:42 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - scallions/shallots
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Oh? So what is this regional variant on scallions and shallots? I think
> they are some kind of green onion but that's all I know. How are they
> different and the same? What regional variant in the names are you
> speaking of?
Okay...let's see now... Scallions are green onions, maybe a foot long,
with a small white bulb at the root end and a chive-like network of
hollow green leaves. Some people use them as a substitute for chives.
I've seen "Texas" scallions, a.k.a. Elephant Scallions, which may or may
not come from Texas. As might be guessed, these are larger than the more
standard type, because we all know everything is larger in Texas. (I'd
be interested in seeing a Weight Watchers meeting...then again, maybe not!)
Shallots are small, usually sorta purple, clustered/modular onion-y
units, a little like a head of garlic, but with larger individual
"cloves". They're richer and more flavorful than most onions, but not as
penetrating as garlic. Among other uses, they feature frequently in a
number of French sauces and other basic preparations, such as duxelles,
a flavoring/stuffing/sauce made from minced and cooked mushrooms and
shallots. It ends up in unexpected places.
However, in some parts of the USA, particularly those parts of the South
where French is still sometimes spoken, there seems to be a tendency to
refer to scallions or green onions as shallots. Maybe standard shallots
don't grow there, and the best substitute became known by their name?
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 06:52:25 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - shallot question
Lilinah biti-Anat wrote:
> >I am unsure whether or not I will be able to get shallot's in my area, and
> >if the price will mortify me, just in case, what is a good substitute?
> >
> >A shallot is like what sort of onion kind of thing? Like those green onion
> >you get in bunches of two or three for $1.29? More like a leek?
> >
> >I have never cooked with shallots.
> >
> > Angeline
>
> Most of the shallots i've used are about the size of a couple garlic
> cloves put together, covered with reddish papery skin like a large
> cooking onion, are very very flavorful, but are not sharp like big
> onions, and have nowhere near as much moisture.
>
> So, where you might have to cook a chopped up big onion quite a while
> to get the moisture out and get it dark golden, shallots cook fairly
> quickly. Because they contain less moisture, not only do they cook
> faster, they add mellow onion flavor with less volume - that is if
> you needed, say, 3/4 cup of chopped big cooking onion, you'd need a
> far smaller quantity, i'm guessing here, say around 1/3 cup chopped
> shallots.
>
> Anyone who has used shallots recently, please correct me if i'm
> giving incorrect info (i just know you will :-) I haven't used any
> for a few years.
>
> Anahita
Nah, I'd say you're pretty much on the money. Just a point to add: you
can put finely chopped onions (and also mushrooms) into a clean
side/dish towel, twist it up and squeeze out a lot of the moisture that
makes it so necessary to cook them for a longer time than shallots. I've
cut my time for making duxelles in half, maybe even less than half.
Squeeze the juice into your pan, before adding the solids, so the flavor
isn't lost, but it quickly reduces to nearly nothing in a wide saute
pan.
The One Thing I've Ever Learned From Julia Child...
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:05:17 EST
From: Elysant at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period French Toast Recipies
Vika wrote:
> The glossary says that Sibbolds are Welsh onions, and doesn't give an
> entry for Rocket.
The Welsh word for "shallots" is pronounced either "shoo-bwrns" or
"shee-bwrns" depending where the speaker is from in Wales. It sounds so
close to "sibbolds" that I wonder if this is what the recipe is referring to
maybe?
Also I seem to recall that "Welsh Onions" are quite a different plant from
shallots, and are not in fact Welsh at all. :-)
Elysant
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:08:23 -0500
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Candlemas Royalty lunch menu
> The redaction in Medieval Kitchen calls for "red or other sweet
> onions". Did those exist then? I know the real sweet ones,
> Valh<something> didn't.
> Lord Stefan li Rous
Those would be Vidalia onions, from Vidalia, GA. The reason they are so
sweet, is the area surrounding that tiny town about halfway between
Savannah and Macon is that there is a markedly low amount of sulphur in
the soil. Theoretically, such an area could have existed in the MA, but
the residents probably would not have known that was the reason.
Conversely, there are Texas Sweets, which you should have access to.
They are somewhat besmirched here (not the real McCoy, you understand)
but still very tasty.
I just ran through my vegetables file quickly to see if I had anything
about period sweet onions, and didn't find much, just references to sweet
onions. (Here's one from one of Lady Brighid's translations "Take the
white onions, and sweet ones, and the bigger they are, the better, and
make them cook in water and salt,...").
Christianna
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:43:08 EST
From: CONNECT at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Candlemas Royalty lunch menu
In a message dated 1/20/00 2:16:06 AM, stefan at texas.net writes:
<< Thank you. I think I will add this dish. What type of onions did you use?
The redaction in Medieval Kitchen calls for "red or other sweet onions".
Did those exist then? I know the real sweet ones, Valh<something> didn't.
How much olive oil did you use? I tend to be fairly heavy handed when I
put salad dressings on my own salads, but maybe that would not be good
for a group of folks? >>
I used standard, grocery store white onions. I used a generous amount of
olive oil and wine vinegar, but not enough to make it like a soup... I'd say
that if you push all the solids to one side of the storage dish, and you see
roughly a couple tablespoons of liquid, you'd be about right. :) I hope this
is helpful.
Your humble servant,
Rosalyn MacGregor
(Pattie Rayl)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:54:07 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Candlemas Royalty lunch menu
> The redaction in Medieval Kitchen calls for "red or other sweet
> onions". Did those exist then? I know the real sweet ones,
> Valh<something> didn't.
> Lord Stefan li Rous
There are a few period tricks for making onions less bitter, though I
doubt that they can be applied to this particular recipe, since the onion
is to be roasted whole. But they may be worth keeping in mind for other
dishes. One is to parboil the onions. Some of the period recipes for
onion relish dishes use salt to extract the bitter juices. Sprinkle the
sliced or chopped onions heavily with salt, then with cold water. Press
the onion between two chopping blocks so that the moisture comes out
of it. Repeat as necessary.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:37:30 EST
From: RichSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period recipes/Adapting recipes (The Onion Book Info)
The information you asked for is:
Onions, Onions, Onions (Delicious Recipes for the World's Favorite Secret
Ingredient
by Linda and Fred Griffith
Copyright: 1974
Published by: Chapters Publishing Ltd.
2031 Shelburne Road
Shelburne, Vermont 05482
ISBN: 1-881527-54-9: $14.95
Thought this interesting: In the Introduction Section the author writes:
"The Israelites partook of Egyptian onions before Moses led them into Canaan.
In the Book of Numbers, in the story of the hardships of the odyssey, the
Israelites speak fondly of the foods they had enjoyed: "We remember the fish
which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the
leeks, and the onions, and the garlick". Three of the six things mentioned
were alliums.
Centuries later, Pliny the Elder, Rome's keen-eyed observer, wrote of
Pompeii's onions and cabbages before he was overcome and killed by the
volcano's heat and fumes. Excavator's of the doomed city would later find
gardens where, just as Pliny had said, onions had grown. The bulbs had left
behind telltale cavities in the ground.
Pliny wrote of foods, he did not give quantities or cooking techniques. That
chore fell to Apicius, a Pliny contemporary. He compiled a 10-volume
cookbook that guided cooks for a thousand years. And, yes, he knew his
onions. Actually, he knew his bulbos, the Latin word the signified all of the
bulbs that were used in Roman kitchens and by Roman apothecaries.... As
translated by John Edwards in the remarkable "Roman Cookery of Apicius, the
recipes read so well that you might want to try them."
hmmmmmmmm...
Rayne
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:18:50 EST
From: RichSCA at aol.com
Subject: SC - Red Onions WAS: 12th C Anglo Norman ravioli, "Harpestraeng"+ ftp
allilyn at juno.com writes:
<< These sound pretty good. The chicken with red onions is interesting--the
only red onion I know is one we call Spanish onion, which does indicate
the southern origins of this ms. Do you suppose that red onions were
traded to Denmark, Holland and Germany, or is this a recipe added for
curiosity's sake, that he didn't expect to be able to prepare at home?
Allison>>
Oh, I can do this one. :-) I have my Onion Book...
Red Onions are NOT Spanish onions. And I now Quote from the Book:
"Red Onions are similar to Spanish onions in their characteristics: Their
flavor is sharp, sweet, and pungent; their texture is a bit courser, with a
very thick wrapper. Uncooked, red onions make a handsome addition to salads
of all types. However, when cooked, these onions lose some of their color,
sometimes taking on a greenish hue."
Rayne
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:51:47 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - par-boiling onions
Aelfwyn at aol.com wrote:
> While gathering and trying several of the recipes for our April 1 feast, I
> found that the recipes are saying to parboil the onions before sauteing them
> with other items. Is the boiling to make a milder onion flavor? To give a
> softer texture in the final dish? One of the recipes in question was an
> Egerdouce (sp) where the onions were to be boiled then chopped before
> sauteing and adding the liquid for simmering the meat. The final product was
> very nice and will be served with the day board at Northern Lights. Just
> curious about a process I seldom see in modern recipes.
Points to consider:
Yes, it may have to do with making the onions milder in flavor,
especially since we aren't necessarily talking about Vidalias here ; )
. In fact, we may, conceivably, be dealing with something a bit tougher
than what we're used to, so boiling them until mostly tender before
adding them to a dish may make more sense for medieval onions than for ours.
Another point: many egredouce recipes seem to be designed with an eye on
a humorically balanced dish. Often the meat or fish is fried, which
heats and dries it (duh!), to which is added vinegar, notoriously
cooling. Makes sense, huh? Not to mention that it is believed by many to
"cut the grease" in fried foods. Sugar is, I think, moderately warming
and slightly humid (think expectorant). Anyway, I've just checked in a
Tacuinum Sanitatis, which says onions are warm in the fourth degree, and
varying opinions on moistness versus dryness are given. Parboiling them
_may_ be designed to make them cooler and moister, to create a more
balanced, and therefore more healthful, dish.
Or maybe it's yummier that way...
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:28:41 +1000
From: Black Jade <Black_Jade at bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: chopping onions MK feast
>If you're doing that many onions, you might like to try using a slicing
>blade on a food processor, to coarsely chop them, then dump in a big bowl. From
>there you can use as is or have someone with a knife cut them finer if you need
>to. I did this for the Valentines Feast and it saved time and tears....I did
>quarter the onions before they went into the processor....
>
>Tygre Marie
I use clear windowed swimming goggles. It keeps your eyes from smarting
and provides some good kitchen humour at the same time
- -Katerine
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:17:31 GMT
From: "Susan Laing" <gleep001 at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Chopping onions
Jasmine mentioned -
>...we have a lot of onions to chop for the feast. A very
>nice lady who I won't out publicly on the list, privately
>suggested that swimming goggles, known for their tight
>seal around the eye, are the perfect way to combat the
>typical tears from cutting too many onions.
My grandmother used to place onions in the fridge (sealed in bag to avoid
losing any moisture) the night before using. She said this causes the juice
to be thicker and not spray when cutting
I use this method and find that my tears are significantly reduced.
Mari
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marion de Paxford
(aka Sue Laing)
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:49:37 GMT
From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
>>My grandmother used to place onions in the fridge (sealed in bag to avoid
>losing any moisture) the night before using. She said this causes the
>juice to be thicker and not spray when cutting
>
>I use this method and find that my tears are significantly reduced.
>
>Does anyone else use / know of this method (and was she right about the
>"cold thickens juice" or is due to some other reaction??)
Actually it works quite well when handslicing onions, the onions natural
defense is that when its cells are torn open, it releases
a sulfuric compound that when it reaches your eyes forms sulfuric
acid. The vaporization point for this chemical is right around
60F. Chilling the onions keeps the stuff in liquid form and less
is released and you can see.
When you are using a mechanized cutter, chilling the onions also
makes the tissues less crisp, so that there is more damage to the
onion as the blade goes through at the higher speed. What happens
then is that when the onions then come to room temperature, they
release a lot more of the chemical, all at once and you or someone else gets
gassed out. Running cold water over freshly machined
onions will lessen this.
Also if you freeze onions before it release their chemicals, you'll
be in for a nasty suprise if you fry them in any way.
And if you use the goggle remedy, make sure you wash your hands and your
face afterwards because you'll have it on your skin and your sweat will make
acid just as easily.
Cadoc
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Cadoc MacDairi, Mountain Confederation, ACG
Shire of Abhainn Ciach Ghlaiss
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:02:14 EDT
From: WyteRayven at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
I have to preface this with the statement that I am only a beginning cook,
but I read somewhere (sorry, I don't remember where, it was years ago) that
if you put a piece of raw potato or bread (preferably potato) in your mouth
when chopping onions then you wont cry.
I have tried this with both bread and potato and it does seem to help. It
doesn't completely stop the reaction, but it seems to help. It also seems to
work better with the potato than the bread.
Ilia
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:13:56 EDT
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: SC - Getting rid of onion odor
To get rid of onion and garlic odor on the hands, try washing with soda water
and rinsing with a spritz of lemon juice.
Mordonna the Cook,
SunDragon's Western Reaches
Atenveldt
(m.k.a. Buckeye, AZ)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:19:25 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
And it came to pass on 12 Apr 00,, that WyteRayven at aol.com wrote:
> On a similar note, when I have cooked dinner and have chopped onions and
> garlic, my fingers smell bad for days.....is there some trick to get rid
> of this odor?
Under running water, rub your hands against something made of
stainless steel. They sell bars of stainless steel shaped like soap, but
a soup spoon will work just as well.
Lemon juice is also a good odor remover.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:15:07 EDT
From: RichSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
Although Cadoc MacDairi's reply requires little further comment. I thought I
would add a few words from the Onion, Onion, Onion Book -
Under the Category "Why we Cry" or "Mine eyes smell onions, I shall weep
anon" - - W. Shakespeare
"Face it: If you are going to chop the ordinary onion, you are going to
cry. There are all kinds of strategies for avoiding the tears, but with
close to 80 years of combined experience at the Onion Cutting Board, we feel
that there is nothing you can do that really will help.
Cut onions under water, if you like, but you can't chop them under water
without washing a lot of the oniony character away. We have heard of holding
a slice of bread between your teeth. It didn't work for us. Some say you
should chill onions in the refrigerator before you cut. Or chop them in one
of those little closed chopping jars, or in a food processor, but the onions
may become too juicy for some preparations. Some experts tell us to keep the
root intact until the very end because the tear-causing substances are
concentrated there.
The coveted sweet onions from Maui, Walla Walla, Vidalia, Texas 1015s or
California Imperial Valley - don't make you cry. But they don't keep very
well. The very chemicals that cause the tears make possible the long-term
storage of hot onions. These compounds fight bacteria and molds. If a bug
bites a hot onion, it gets a jolt.
An enormous amount of research has gone into the chemistry of the hot
onion, and scientists have discovered that organic sulfer compounds are the
villians in the drama. But there is still no general agreement as to how the
complex chemical constituents work in creating taste and odor. The gas
enzymatically formed when an onion is cut is unstable and short-lived, making
its chemical difficult to study. But as every cook knows, it lives long
enough to react with the moisture on the eye, creating a minute amount of
attention-getting sulfuric acid.
In other parts of the book, they ask various chefs how they combat this
"teary property of onions" - The main consensus of all chefs is that you MUST
have a really, really sharp knife, cut quickly and work in a well-ventilated
place. (and a number of them mentioned keeping them cold)
Chef Paul Minnillo, of Cleveland's Baricelli Inn likes to use sweet onions.
He said "If you don't want to cry, stay away from strong onions. I've seen
chefs use surgical gloves, run water, wet their knifes, drop onions in
boiling water. God, if you have to go through all that, forget it"
But the best comment I like is from Johanne Killeen and George Germon,
owners of Al Forno in Providence: "If you want to avoid tears, delegate the
job."
Which is how I met my Peer. I seldom cry when I cut onions - no matter
what kind of onions. So I frequently volunteer to cut onions when in the
kitchen. I cut onions in her (and her late husband's) kitchen so often that
I was presented with a gift that they kept just for my use.... This really
neat chain-mail glove...but just one... it was kind of a Middle Ages Michael
Jackson thingy. :-)
Rayne
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:52:09 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
Lemon juice works fairly well. Also, a friend of mine made some soap that has
in it, I believe, coffee grounds. I don't know whether they were new or used,
but that soap removes all sorts of odors from my hands...fish, onions, garlic,
etc. Finally, I believe some of the catalogues that sell kitchen stuff also
sell a little metal thing that is supposed to remove the odor.
Kiri
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:06:45 EDT
From: RichSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Getting rid of onion odor
>Also, some of us, like me, will smell very strongly of some flavors if we
>ingest them.
Although you appear to be talking about onion odor that comes from your skin
via your pores, rather than onion breath... I found the following
interesting. The National Onion Association offers these suggstions:
Rinse your mouth with equal parts of lemon juice and water.
Chew a citrus peel after eating onions.
Chew on aniseed or dill seed.
Eat a freshly washed unpeeled apple.
Eat a spring or two of parsley (this is one of the best solutions)
Munch on roasted cofee beans
Food writer Craig Claiborne once wrote on the subject of onion breath "Try
the parsley - not just a sprig, but a large amount. Chase it by chewing
whole cloves and coriander seeds."
The authors of the Onion Book write: "Maybe the best thing to do is avoid the
society of people who do not eat onions." (They said it, I didn't)
Rayne
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:28:34 EDT
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Getting rid of onion odor
WyteRayven at aol.com writes:
<<
By soda water, do you mean the stuff you buy to drink, or mixing baking soda
with water? (Sorry for my ignorance). >>
Bicarbonate of soda, about a tablespoonful in a quart of water should do it.
Mordonna the Cook,
SunDragon's Western Reaches
Atenveldt
(m.k.a. Buckeye, AZ)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:21:37 -0500
From: Deacon C Swepston <dekmister at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Chopping onions
> On a similar note, when I have cooked dinner and have chopped onions and
> garlic, my fingers smell bad for days.....is there some trick to get
> rid of this odor?
> Ilia
I make a ball of coffee (yes, coffee) soap and keep one in the
kitchen and one in the bathroom. It works on lots of 'bad' smells -
onion, garlic, gasoline, pesticides.
Take a handsized bar of Ivory soap, not the larger bath size, grate
it on the large holes on a cheese grater. Put the grated soap into a
large microwave safe bowl and microwave on high for a minute (or so,
depends on your microwave) until it all melts. It will grow, get fluffy,
as it melts. Take it out of the microwave and add/stir in a TBSP of
ground coffee using a wooden spoon. (I'm not a coffee drinker, so I buy
the single pot gourmet pkgs at the grocery store. One pkg of coffee will
make 6 balls of soap.) As soon as you can handle it, shape the
soap/coffee mixture into a ball; set aside and let it cool.
Melusine
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:09:08
From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Onion Salad Recipe
From Redon, et al. "The Medieval Kitchen"
Manuscript Source: Zambrini, Francesco, ed. Libro della Cucina del secolo
XIV
"De la insaleggiata di cipolle" (Recipe 90)
"Togli cipolle; cuocile sotto la bragia, e poi le manda, e tagliale per
traverso longhette et sottili; mettili alquanto d'aceto, sale, oglio, e
spezie, e da a mangiare"
"Take onions; cook them in the embers, then peel them and cut them across
into longish, thin slices; add a little vinegar, salt, oil, and spices, and
serve.
Recipe:
6 sweet onions, red or white, unpeeled
olive oil
salt
pepper
vinegar
1/2 teaspoon fine spices (ginger, cinnamon, pepper, cloves, saffron)
Wrap the onions in tinfoil, then roast them in the embers of a fire, or in a
500-degree oven, for 1 hour. Once cooked, unwrap and let cool, then peel
them and slice them thin. Toss in a salad bowl with olive oil, salt,
pepper, vinegar, and fine spices. serve lukewarm."
This is good camp cooking; try roasting fennel along with it.
Vicente
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sour oranges = availablity of
- --- Devra at aol.com wrote:
> By the way, I have a front yard full of wild onions.
> At least, they smell like onions, they look like
> onions (round hollow leaf, white bulb)... Does
> anyone know of any non-edible onionoids? Are all
> members of the onion family edible?
>
> Lady Devra the Baker
Well, technically all members of the species Allium
are edible, and this includes the ornamental onion,
chives, leeks and garlic. However, the ornamental
variety is not really grown for eating, but more for,
as the name implies, ornamentation. Certain varieties
of ornamental onion are very hardy, and can be left in
the ground in all but the harshest of zones, while
others are fairly delicate and make attractive dried
flower components. The latter type is more suited to
culinary uses than the former, *if* you choose to use
it for that (snipping off the tender green shoots
would be my suggestion, leaving the bulb intact to
grow again next season). Since none of the onion
family are poisonous, the best way to tell is to
nibble on one...
Balthazar of Blackmoor
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anne du Bosc <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Re: Wild "Onions"
There are some members of the Allium family that
are poisonous, and that look and smell a bit like
wild onions. Ask the members of Black Rose,
whose cook at a Highlands war a few years back
decided to cook "Onion Soup" using the "wild
onions" he found growing at the camp site. The
entire Household wound up with the trots, and
some of them made a late night visit to the
hospital for a date with a stomach pump. If you
don't KNOW what they are, my suggestion would be
don't eat it. Or you could try it out on a least
favorite Peer, I guess.
Mordonna the Cook
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:09:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sweet onions in period Europe
------Original Message------
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
I think we've discussed a number of period recipes involving
onions here and I thought there were some comments in these
recipes indicating that onions may likely have been more acrid/
sulfurous? such as comments to parboil them, and I thought, others.
Is there any evidence of onions being eat raw in salads for instance?
---------------------------
Granado, Herrera, and Platina refer to white onions as being sweeter than
the red ones, and Platina says that the Tuscan variety is milder than the
others, but whether they were as sweet as a modern Vidalia, I have no idea.
Luis Lobera de Avila, in his health manual, says that onions eaten raw are
unhealthy. He ends the chapter on onions, leeks, and garlic by saying that
these foods are better suited to crude and rustic people than to gentry, so
if you want more information, go look it up in the classical Latin sources.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
mka Robin Carroll-Mann
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Sweet onions in period Europe
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:00:21 -0500
All these interesting questions and so little time for research.
There are a number of different types of onion, but what is being discussed
here is Allium cepa, the common single bulb cooking onion. The are a number
of varietals, but they break down into three groups, short day, long day and
intermediate.
Short day onions require 12 to 13 hours of daylight to produce a bulb and
they are commonly milder, softer fleshed, and can only be stored for short
periods. They grow south of the 35th parallel, which means they would not
have been grown in Europe, but might be the type of onion which was an
Egyptian staple. They could also be marketed into Mediterranean Europe, but
might not make it farther north.
Long day onions require 14 1/2 hours or more of sunlight to bulb. They are
pungent, hard fleshed and store well.
Intermediate onions require 13 1/2 to 14 hours of sunlight to bulb and are
fleshy.
As a guess, intermediates were selectively grown from short day onions to
handle colder climates. Whether this occurred prior to or within period is
open to question.
The onions available to southern cookbook authors may not be the same as the
onions available to northern cookbook authors.
Vidalias, Wala Walas, and Mauis are apperently intermediate onions which
have adapted especially well to their locales and produce exceptionally good
onions from their environments.
Bear
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:46:45 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [Fwd: Sweet Onions in Period]
Regina Romsey asked that I forward this information about sweet onions
to you.
Kiri
--
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandapease at bigfoot.com>
To: "Kiri Elaine Koogler" <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Sweet Onions in Period
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:30:04 -0700
They have been talking about Sweet Onions on the list and progressing as
though Egyptian onions are the same as those we commonly get in the store.
I have reason to think this is not so. When I was in Egypt the type I saw
were long and green and sort of a scallion with attitude. They grew
profusely with a long top that was also edible. At the very top were little
baby onions that could be used for flavoring too. Here in the states I have
seen them called Egyptian Onions or "Walking Onions" since when the stalk
dries and falls over those little onions on the tip hit the ground and dig
in.
These same onions are found in a lot of Pharohonic deposits in Egypt as well
as modernly. I won't swear to it but I think some were also found in some
of the Royal Tombs in the Valley, certainly they were found on the village
site for those workers who dug those tombs.
I have some that live at the houseline in my front flower bed. Because they
are "protected" from the rain they seem to be very happy there in the summer
when we have no rain to be protected from. Near dessert conditions. These
may be the proto-onion that other onions have been bred from.
Wanda/Regina
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:36:23 +1100
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: Mark Calderwood <mark-c at acay.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ember Day Tart
[about parboiling onions]
>It is also a possibility (that we never think of) that they may have done
>so without even peeling the onions first. Would it make a difference?
>Perhaps, perhaps not, but certainly onion skins are used to make clothing
>dyes so potentially the onion skin could colour the rest of the onion in
>cooking.
In British culinary tradition onions are still parboiled whole, but peeled.
Boiling unpeeled onions makes them bitter.
Giles
From: "Diamond Randall" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:23:17 -0400
Subject: RE: Onions
>Don't try to do more than 5 pounds at a time. In my experience, they
>just don't cook. Also, the sweeter the onion the better the
>caramelization, since what you're doing is browning the sugars.
That is just plain useless to use sweeter onions in caramelization.
You should use the cheapest storage onions for this. The reason for this
is that "sweet" onions do not have a higher sugar content than common
everyday ones; they have a lower level of the chemicals that cause an
onion to taste hot and strong. In fact, you should not waste sweet onions
like vidalias by cooking them at all. It's akin to using a fine $1000 bottle
of Pommard wine for cooking. You buy the sweet onion and the fine wine
for the subtlety of flavor that genetics (in the case of the onion) or time
(in the case of fine wine) has produced. Heating very quickly destroys this
desirable quantity that you paid extra for.
Stored in the onion bulb are vacuoles of chemicals which are separated
from each other. The intact onion does not cause tears nor does it have
any particularly strong smells. When it is sliced or crushed however the
separated chemicals stored combine and recombine in what is described
as a cascade chemical reaction which produces the harsh "hotness" and the
sulfurous gases that cause our nasal linings to be irritated and our eyes
to tear.
These chemicals are produced in the 4th or 5th chemical recombinings in the
reaction . That is why the it also fades. The gases dissipate, but the
chemicals are destroyed also in progressive reactions.
Even a low temperature cooking gets rid of these chemicals as they are
very volatile leaving the sugars behind. Also left behind are the chemical
compounds that produce the wonderful flavor of onions in cooking.
"Sweet" onions are genetically selected for having very much reduced
amounts of the chemicals that produce in the cascade reaction, the undesirable
characteristics of cheaper onions. They also have less strong onion flavor
as a result. Therefore, they are superior for any of the raw uses. They
are terrible for cooking as heat destroys so much they are rather insipid
cooked.
They are particularly bad for caramelizing too as they are lower in sugars
as well. In their case, "sweet" is the relative absence of the chemicals that
cause hot, strong and acrid tastes, not sugar content.
IMO, the long cooking time of caramelizing an onion causes such destruction
of the chemistry of an onion that you must start with the cheapest, harshest
onion you can find to have any onion flavor left at all at the end of the
cooking. If this is done with sweet onions to begin with, you might as well
add half a cup of sugar and a spoon of onion powder; otherwise you end up
with a vaguely sweet brown mush.
Akim
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:32:52 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Need some Help with Spanish Recipes....
To: Coos within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Ld Nichola asked about a bunch of Spanish recipes including
> Pottage of Onions that is called ebollada
We have done that one and our version is in the Miscellany (the
current version, which is in pdf on Cariadoc's site). Very good, if
too cholesterol-high to be part of my daily cooking.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:13:54 -0500
From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Sort-of Feast report (addedum)
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
THL Felicia talked me into pre-slicing all the onions (27 pounds) in advance
and storing them in vacuum-sealed bags. Not only did that ease the food prep
considerably but the air in the kitchen was much nicer too. And she taught
me another thing - the onions sweetened up a bit during their waiting
period, which was grand since they were all destined for frying. She
tells me they can be frozen this way too. Now *that's* handy!
Hrothny
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:46:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Kerri Martinsen <kerrimart at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sort-of Feast report (addedum)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
WARNING -
DON"T try this if you can't vacuum seal. I had 9 lbs of cut onions
triple ziplocked in my car overnight on Jan 9th. My car STILL smells
like onions....
beware....BEWARE!!!!
:)
Vitha
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:15:41 -0800
From: elisabetta at klotz.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: RE: Sort-of Feast report (addedum)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
You don't need to vaccum seal the onions. Just double ziplock bag them, and give them their own cooler. The cooler will seal in the smell, leaving your car onion-smell free. Of course the cooler needs to be cleaned, but that's much easier then the car. And try some lemon juice. It reduces the smell.
Elisabetta
who always pre-cuts whenever possible, and for her last feast had 40 lbs of onions pre-chopped the week before living in her fridge. Those little chopping machines are great!!!!!
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:00:30 -0700
From: "Patricia Collum" <pjc2 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Some recipes that I have redacted.
To: <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Huette von Ahrens" <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Some recipes that I have redacted.
Our local barony had their Anniversary Tournament on Saturday and there
was a pot luck luncheon at noon. Here are the recipes that I used and my
redactions with commentaries.
snip<
To boile onions [From The good huswifes Jewell. 1596]
Take a good many onions and cut them in four quarters, set them on the
fire in as much water as you think will boile them tender, and when they
be clean skimmed, put in a good many raisons, halfe a grose pepper, a good
peece of sugar, and a little salte, and when the onions be through boiled,
beat the yolke of an Egge with Vergious, and put into your pot and so
serve it upon soppes. If you will, poch Egges and lay upon them.
My redaction:
3 large sweet onions, pealed and quartered.
8 oz. raisins
1 tsp. pepper
1 tbsp. sugar
1 tsp. salt
16 oz water
Toasted bread for sops
3 hard boiled eggs, sliced
Throw first six ingredients into a crock pot and boil on high for 7 hours.
Serve with the sops and decorate with sliced eggs.
This was the last item that I made. I almost decided not to make this as
it was late and I was very tired. I didn't relish standing over a hot
stove watching this boil. Just as I was about to go to bed, the thought
occured to me that I could make this in a crock pot and still get some
sleep. I decided to hard boil the eggs as I thought it would be prettier
to decorate with them than with a poached egg. I also didn't thicken this
dish, because the onions remained so large. If they had mushed up, I
would have added the thickener. The next time I make this, I will chop
the onions finer. While this dish tasted very good, the large pieces of
onion were somewhat hard to keep on the sops. But that is just a personal
choice for me.
snip<
Huette
---------
This is the same recipe I just had a go at for our Baronial cooking group.
Here is my version:
2-3 medium yelow onions, cut in eight to ten wedges
1 half ounce box of raisins (a little more than a quarter cup)
3 table spoons sugar
one half tsp freshly ground black pepper
one quarter tsp salt
1 egg yolk
2 and a half tablespoons apple cider vinegar
4 big slices sheephearder's bread, cut in half, toasted and crusts removed
Put the onions in a skillet with just enough water to come to the top but
not cover the onions (about one and a half to two cups) and bring to a boil
over medium heat. Add the raisins, sugar, salt and pepper. Cover and simmer
over low heat until the onions are just fork tender. While the onion mix is
simmering, seperate the egg and discard the white. Stir the vinegar and yolk
together with a fork.
Once the onions are tender, use a slotted spoon to remove most of the onions
and raisins to another container and reserve. Return the remaining liquid to
medium heat and slowly dizzle in the yolk mix, stirring constantly so the
eggs don't coagulate. Contnue to stir the sauce for another five to ten
minutes and then pour it over the reserved onion mix. Place a half piece of
toast on each persons plate or bowl and then spoon the onion, raisins and
sauce over and serve.
Serves 8 as a side dish
I cut the onions into smaller wedges because I didn't want as big of pieces
as quartering them would have made, but I wanted to retain the shape. I used
the cider vinegar instead of verjuice because I didn't have any and I wanted
something to substitute that would be sour, a little fruity and have some
acidity. Katheline (another member of our group) then told us that in this
time in England verjuice was made out of sour crab apples instead of
immature grapes like in the rest of Europe so this makes a reasonable
substitute. I didn't use the egg but sliced hard-boiled egg does sound like
an interesting alternative. This was really tasty.
Cecily
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:35:02 -0500 (EST)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coriander Juice???
To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Malkin wrote:
<<< I can buy onion juice in bottle at Smith's Food and Drug local.
in the spice aisle. >>>
Last fall i made a recipe from the 13th c. anonymous Andalusian cookbook that called for onion juice.
I put a very coarsely chopped onion in the food processor. They're so moist they don't need water the way herb leaves do. Then i poured out the liquid into a measuring cup and squeezed the remaining pulp to get all the onion juice out.
--
Urtatim (that's urr-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:18:27 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which kind of onions in an onion tart
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< I'll be cooking for a feast at the end of March and plan on making onion tarts. Not being a real big fan of onions per say, I'd like to know what y'all think the best choice of onions I should buy for the tarts? I live in Washington but would buy from the internet if necessary.
THL Anne >>>
Regular old yellow onions are just fine. They caramelize up a treat
when sauteed and that's what you want. And they are economical. "Maui
Onions"? Newp, Maui has not been discovered by Europeans yet, and the
best virtue of sweet onions is when they are raw anyway.
I do like leeks in this sort of dish as well. It's a somewhat
different flavor though. The leek, a nice spring shoot, should be in
season by the time of this feast.
Selene
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:39:30 -0700
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which kind of onions in an onion tart
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
"Euriol of Lothian" <euriol at ptd.net> wrote:
<<< You might try a mixture of different onions... my first
impulse is for a
sweeter onion, but having a little red onion might be
nice as well. >>>
red onions can get a weird color when cooked. best to try
in advance. i have always had good luck w/ plain ol'
brown/yellow onions, but a lot depends on what else is in
the recipe, seasoning-wise.
scallions can be a nice addition as well.
cailte
onion lover for over 50 yrs
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:02:46 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which kind of onions in an onion tart
To: <celticcheri at yahoo.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
How this question is answered depends on why you ask the question. If you
are talking about the cooking properties, I'd go with a local yellow and be
done with it. They are usually less expensive and they sweeten as they
carmelize.
If you are trying for historical accuracy, then it would depend upon the
cuisine and the period of the feast. Dioscorides (1st Century) describes
onions as being long or round, white or yellow. In 13th Century Germany,
onions were medical exotics not included in Albertus Magnus's garden list,
although he did have garlic and leeks. By the mid-16th Century, the red
onion shows up in the writings of Amatus Lusitanus, a Portuguese physician.
Bear
----- Original Message -----
I'll be cooking for a feast at the end of March and plan on making onion
tarts. Not being a real big fan of onions per say, I'd like to know what
y'all think the best choice of onions I should buy for the tarts? I live in
Washington but would buy from the internet if necessary.
THL Anne
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:13:58 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Onion-riffic
On Sep 16, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Christiane wrote:
<<< Poking around, I found a modern-day recipe, pisci ca cipuddata,
"fish soused with onions." Cipudda is Sicilian for onion. Fried fish
layered in onions cooked with vinegar and sugar, and mint or bay,
kept in crocks and served at room temperature. Not coriander,
saffron, and celery leaves as called for in the 13th century al-
Baghdadi recipe, but mint and bay grow wild on the island and for
the poor, a lot easier to obtain. And the al-Baghdadi recipe doesn't
call for all those onions. Those crazy onion-loving Palermitani! I
guess when you're so successful in growing them, you have to find
ways to use them up. I know of the medieval Muslim view of garlic
and onions being an aphrodisiac, so no wonder why ibn Hawqal was so
scandalized by the rampant onion-eating of the Sicilians. >>>
Check out period and modern recipes for escabeche, which is usually
some variation on the theme of fried fish, onions fried in the same
oil, then finally, vinegar and spices boiled with the oil, with the
hot pickle then poured over the fish and onions in a crock.
See also porrey chapeleyn, which is onions fried and cooked in almond
milk as a pottage, with a garnish of faux onion rings made of fried
pasta dough.
I STR Platina speaking of roasted onions served as a warm salad with
vinegar, oil and herbs.
And, of course, we've got a bunch of medieval stews under the heading
of "civeys", probably so named for their onion-ey sauces. Sometimes
they also contain liver and/or blood, and modern versions (still eaten
in France today) seem to concentrate more on the blood-thickened sauce
than the onions.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:20:15 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Onion-riffic
They appear in numerous recipes but they weren't always appreciated.
This is an excerpt from Das Kochbuch des Meisters Eberhard
(Germany, 15th century - Giano Balestriere, trans.)
Onions are hot in the fourth degree and moist in the third and cause
unchastity and headaches. To those who eat them raw they cause bad
moisture and great thirst.
-----
There is this recipe for an onion pottage where onions appear in the
title:
This is an excerpt from Libre del Coch
(Spain, 1520 - Robin Carroll-Mann, trans.)
46. Pottage of Onions That is Called Cebollada. You will take onions,
peeled and well-washed and cleaned and cut them in large pieces; and
cast them in a pot of water that is boiling; and when they have boiled
once or twice in the pot, remove them from the pot and squeeze them
between two wooden chopping blocks; and then gently fry them with
melted good fatty bacon or with bacon grease, moving them about with a
spatula, and stirring them in the frying pan with said spatula which
is of wood. And if the onions become at all dry, cast in good fatty
mutton broth until the onions are well-cooked. And then take almonds
which are well-peeled and blanched. And grind them well in a mortar,
and then mix them with good mutton broth and strain them through a
woolen cloth. And then cast the almond milk in the pot with the
onions. And mix it well. And then cook them well until the onions are
cooked with the almond milk. And cast into the pot some good cheese of
Aragon, grated, and mix them well with a haravillo as if they were
gourds. And when they are well-mixed with the cheese, and you see that
it is cooked, prepare dishes, first casting into the pot a pair of egg
yolks for each dish; and if you wish, cast sugar and cinnamon on the
dishes, and it is good.
-------
And here is a Dutch dish:
This is an excerpt from Wel ende edelike spijse
(Dutch, late 15th c. - Christianne Muusers, trans.)
The original source can be found at Christianne Muusers's website
Onions with cuminsauce with almonds. Take cumin, saffron and bread,
brayed and tempered with almond milk. Let it boil with the onion. Add
salt and let it then cool sufficiently.
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:17:34 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Onion-riffic
Then there's always A Tart for Ember Day which is essentially a quiche-type
pie with cheese and onions...lots of onions! But it is very, very good!
Kiri
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:14:36 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Onion-riffic
<<< Were there other medieval dishes that put such an emphasis on the
onion over the other ingredients? The plethora of onions in "A
Sicilian Dish" makes me wonder; >>>
al-Warraq has a short chapter on "onion dishes and Hashimiyat." But
the most onion rich recipe there has equal weights of onions and meat.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:12:36 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Onion-riffic
<<< I STR Platina speaking of roasted onions served as a warm salad with
vinegar, oil and herbs.
Adamantius >>>
Yeah, it's a Martino recipe with the onions roasted in the embers (until
carmelized) then sliced, spiced and soused. I made it a few years ago and
it was veddy good.
Bear
<the end>