onions-msg - 2/8/08
Period onions. Scallions, shallots, green onions, leeks.
NOTE: See also the files: root-veg-msg, leeks-msg, vegetables-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, onion-soups-msg, cutting-onions-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Onions
<< Any idea why you would Parboil the onions first? It doesn't really make
sense to me, I think they would lose a bit of their flavor if you did it?
>>
Parboiling onions first reduces their cooking time in the final product and
assures that they will be done. It also reduces some of the stronger flavors.
Modern onion varieties have been bred for sweetness among other things.
Period onions and some heirloom onions were/are very strong flavored and need
this extra treatment to make them more palatable to some. Also "the , IMHO,
awful tasting but more healthy tender-crisp" style of vegies in modern
cuisine is an alien concept when looking at period cookery.
Lord Ras
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:15:20 -0600
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - Apricot Chicken Recipe
<snip>
I was delighted to find a Rev. War re-enactor, who just "discovered" the
SCA, cooked Apricot Chicken over the campfire for his turn at our camp meal
at Pennsic. Along with it he served roasted onions: Cover whole onions
(slice off only the top. leave on the brown skin layers) with foil and place
in the coals until soft. To serve, open the foil, carefully (hot!) squeze
the brown skin and the onion will pop right out onto your plate. Serve with
butter or salt and pepper, or plain if desired. Amazingly simply and
incredibly good. For some reason it doesn't work in the oven at home quite
as well.
Aoife
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 98 16:11:43 PST
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Apricot Chicken Recipe
: Along with it he served roasted onions: Cover whole onions
: (slice off only the top. leave on the brown skin layers) with foil and place
: in the coals until soft.
I do the same with onions except I cut a cone into the root end as well as
slice off the top, and pack the cone with spices complimentary to the rest
of my food and pack with butter. Try that as a variation- the spices
permeate the onion flesh- most tasty.
From: "E. L. Wimett" <SILVERDRAGON at Charleston.Net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recipe Help Requested
Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:39:17 GMT
Nyani-Iisha Martin <nfmartin at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> David Friedman (DDFr at best.com) wrote:
> : aelfwyn at aol.com (Aelfwyn) wrote:
> : >Can anyone tell me if simple roasted/baked onions would be within period?
> : I don't know of any such recipes. As a general rule, it makes more sense
> : to find recipes in period cookbooks and cook them instead of inventing
> : recipes (or finding modern ones) and then desperately searching for
> : "documentation."
>
> Hmmm. However, would any and all recipes be in a period cookbook?
>
> What I mean is, the impression that my reading about medieval cooking gave
> me was that they would have written down recipes for unusual things. A
> basic dish like baked onions, any cook could make, so why record a recipe
> for that? Of course, I could be wrong in that impression, which is why I'm
> asking.
>
> Also....not every cook cooks only from recipes; I often don't. Is it
> possible for someone who has been practicing medieval cooking for years to
> have a good idea of the "style" and make up their own recipes? Or is that
> simply too slack of a practice and every dish must be documented?
There is at least some support for simple onion preparation in period,
judging by the listing in the Tacuinum Sanitatis (edition by Luisa Arano).
In the Paris manuscript (as translated by Arano), the description reads: "
Nature: ...warm in the fourth degree, moist in the third. Optimum: The
white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They are diuretic and
facilitate coitus. Danger: They cause headaches. Neutralization of the
dangers: with vinegar and milk."
In the Vienna manuscript this is somewhat expanded: " Nature: Warm in the
fourth degree, moist in the third degree, dry at other times. Optimum: The
white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They soften the nature,
provoke urine, increase coitus, and sharpen the eyesight. Danger: They
cause headaches. Effects: They generate milk and sperm and are good for
cold temperaments, for very old people, in Winter, and in Northerly
regions."
What does this tell us (other than that period cooks would think onions
most appropriate for a lover's feast, despite modern prejudices)? The
reference to the use of milk and vinegar to avert the negative effects of
the unmodified onions suggests that at least onions poached in milk or
marinated in vinegar would have been common usages.
I suspect very strongly that this derives from the tradition enshrined in
Apicius since many of the elements here (aphrodisiac nature, use of
vinegar, etc.) are found there as well. He provides several simple and
complex recipes in Book VII for cooking onions, boiled, parboiled and
fried, fried with wine sauce, etc.
From: DDFr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recipe Help Requested
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:01:58 -0800
Organization: Santa Clara University
"E. L. Wimett" <SILVERDRAGON at Charleston.Net> wrote:
>There is at least some support for simple onion preparation in period,
>judging by the listing in the Tacuinum Sanitatis (edition by Luisa Arano).
>
>In the Paris manuscript (as translated by Arano), the description reads: "
>Nature: ...warm in the fourth degree, moist in the third. Optimum: The
>white ones which are watery and juicy. Usefulness: They are diuretic and
>facilitate coitus. Danger: They cause headaches. Neutralization of the
>dangers: with vinegar and milk."
>What does this tell us (other than that period cooks would think onions
>most appropriate for a lover's feast, despite modern prejudices)? The
>reference to the use of milk and vinegar to avert the negative effects of
>the unmodified onions suggests that at least onions poached in milk or
>marinated in vinegar would have been common usages.
I don't think so.
It tells us that having milk or vinegar in a dish with onions would have
been recommended by at least some period physicians. But that tells us
nothing at all about whether they were eaten by themselves, nor how they
were prepared. It is not "support for simple onion preparation" --for all
we know (from Tacitas Sanitatem) the onions, milk and vinegar were going
to be combined in some elaborate dish. Nor does it suggest poaching in
milk or marinating in vinegar.
Some modern writers argue for combining rice and beans, for nutritional
reasons. But that tells us nothing about what the particular dishes would
have been like, other than those ingredients.
Arval writes:
>In fact, my impression from Cariadoc's discussion is that there are more
>than enough period recipes available to keep anyone busy for a lifetime.
Several. I think _Manuscrito Anonimo_ alone would be adequate for a
reasonably active SCA cook over his active lifetime. And I would like to
be at the feast held to celebrate the completion of the project.
The two volume collection of primary source material that I sell currently
contains about 1500-1600 pages (reduction copied down--volume I is four
pages to a page, Volume II is two), although with a little duplication of
recipes across sources. And that includes almost none of the Elizabethan
cookbooks, since I'm not really interested in Nouvelle Cuisine and they
(Eleanor Fettiplace et. al.) are pretty readily available. At a rough
guess, other things currently available in English would add another
thousand pages or so--not counting the 17th century cookbooks. Things I
have in the original that have not been translated would add another two
thousand pages, at a very rough guess.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:56:38 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Here are couple of Tuscan recipes that caught my eye in The Medieval Kitchen
(early birthday present from my darling wife). They should transport well
without refrigeration, cook up easily on an open fire and be scalable. BTW,
I didn't see anything about the size of this feast. How many people are you
serving?
Bear
Of onion salad. Take onions; cook them in the embers, then peel them and
cut them across into longish, thin slices; add a little vinegar, salt, oil,
and spices, and serve.
2 pounds medium sweet onions (about 6)
olive oil
wine vinegar
scant 1/2 teaspoon fine spices (see below)
salt
pepper
Put the onions into the coals and let roast until tender (I'd estimate 30
minutes to 1 hour. Select one onion and test it every so often with a fork.
Be sure they are done, Ras can not abide half-baked onions.) Remove from
the fire, peel and cut into thin slices with a sharp knife. Put the onions
in a salad bowl, season with salt, pepper, and spices. Add oil and vinegar
to taste.
Fine spice mixture:
2 rounded Tablespoons freshly ground black pepper
2 rounded Tablespoons ground cinnamon
2 rounded Tablespoons ground ginger
1 1/2 Tablespoons saffron threads, loosely measured, crushed to powder
3/4 teaspoon ground cloves
<snip of mushroom recipe>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:05:21 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Onion pottage (was: Spanish Period Food)
At 9:51 PM -0800 2/14/99, Elizabeth Pruyn wrote:
>I am new to the list and have not seen the onion pottage recipe before.
>May I please have a copy of it?
Potage of Onions Which They Call "Cebollada"
Libro de Guisados, 1528, tr. Robin Carroll-Mann
(Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba, Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom)
Take peeled onions which are well washed and clean and cut them in thick
slices, and cast them in a pot of boiling water, and then having let them
come to a boil once or twice, take them out of the pot and press them
between two wooden chopping boards and them fry them gently with good lard
or with bacon grease, stirring with a little shovel and moving it about in
the frying pan with the aforementioned little shovel which should be of
wood. And if the onions dry up, cast in some good fatty mutton broth until
the onions are well cooked. And then take almonds which are well peeled and
white and grind them well in a mortar and then dissolve them in good mutton
broth and pass them through a woolen strainer and then cast the almond milk
in the pot with the onions and mix it well, and cook them well until the
onions are cooked in the almond milk, and cast good grated cheese from
Aragon in the pot, and stir well with a stirrer as if they were gourds, and
when they are well mixed with the cheese and you see that it is cooked,
prepare dishes, first casting into the pot a pair of egg yolks for each
dish, and upon the dishes cast sugar and cinnamon if you wish; and it is
good.
2 1/2 c lamb broth from 1 lb 10 oz onions 4 egg yolks
2 oz lamb fat and trimmings 1 T bacon fat or lard 1 t sugar
1/2 c almonds 2 1/2 oz parmesan cheese 1/8 t cinnamon
Put lamb trimmings in 4 c water and simmer an hour or so for broth. Blanch
almonds (put into boiling water briefly, remove, and squeeze almond out of
brown skin). Peel and slice onions. Grate cheese. Separate eggs. Grind
almonds fine and use 2 c of the lamb broth to make almond milk from them,
straining through cheesecloth. Bring 4 c water to a boil; add sliced
onions, bring back to a boil, let boil a minute or two and then remove from
heat and drain. Squeeze the onions between two wooden boards and drain off
the juice. Heat bacon fat, add onions and fry for 10 minutes; add 1/2 c
broth and cook another 5-10 minutes. Add almond milk, simmer about another
10 minutes. Stir in grated cheese; as soon as it is melted, add egg yolks,
stir them in and remove from heat. Put into serving bowl, mix cinnamon and
sugar and sprinkle over the top.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:16:31 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - RE: Onions
Margarite asked:
> I'm wondering about the difference between onions today and those in
> period. What varieties were available? Are red onions period?
I took an interesting class from Raisya Khorivoyna from Ansteorra at Pennsic
on "The Carolingian Garden". In her handout, which I hope to have in the
Florilegium soon, she mentions in her lists of plants:
"Capitulare de Villis" (800AD): leeks, onions, welsh onions, shallots
"St. Gall Plan (820AD)": leeks, onions, shallots
Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
at least, thought came from Wales?
- --
Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:54:00 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
> at least, thought came from Wales?
I believe Flower and Rosenbaum refer to Welsh onion in the translation
of Apicius, who would certainly not have known them as such, so
presumably Charlemagne didn't either. I believe they're a long-bladed
onion somewhere in between what we'd think of as a scallion or green
onion, which some people call shallots, and an actual shallot, the
purplish kind. If you've seen full-grown ramps they're pretty similar.
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:19:18 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
Welsh onions are sometimes known as "Egyptian" onions or sprouting onions.
These are tall plants, which the onions(about the size of a modern boiling
onion) form on the tips of the stalks like flowers, in clusters.
Lady Katherine McGuire
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:44:03 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
pat fee wrote:
> Welsh onions are sometimes known as "Egyptian" onions or sprouting onions.
> These are tall plants, which the onions(about the size of a modern boiling
> onion) form on the tips of the stalks like flowers, in clusters.
>
> Lady Katherine McGuire
Oh, okay. I've seen these locally. The Asian markets around here call
them garlic chives, and they're sold in baby and mature varieties. for
more botanical information try:
http://www.island.wsu.edu/CROPS/JAPANESE.htm
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:58:22 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - RE: Onions
> Stefan li Rous wrote:
> > Anyone know what a "Welsh onion" is? Other than an onion that Charlemagne
> > at least, thought came from Wales?
>
> I believe Flower and Rosenbaum refer to Welsh onion in the translation
> of Apicius, who would certainly not have known them as such, so
> presumably Charlemagne didn't either. I believe they're a long-bladed
> onion somewhere in between what we'd think of as a scallion or green
> onion, which some people call shallots, and an actual shallot, the
> purplish kind. If you've seen full-grown ramps they're pretty similar.
>
> Adamantius
Root identifies Welsh onion as Allium fistulosum. It is a primative form of
onion which does not form a bulb, but has the bottom part of its stem
thicken. The name is a corruption of a German word meaning foreign. The
Welsh onion did not arrive in Wales until 1629.
The German word is probably related to welsch, meaning roughly southern or
to or from the southern lands (Roman, Latin, French, Italian. etc.).
Bear
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:23:20 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
The onions we know today as "Egyptian" are a cross breed of a similar type
of "branching" onion found in Wales in the middle ages. The "Egyptian"
onions were brought back from the third crusade, by monks, because they
resembled "native onions" However the crossing of these plans took much
from the Welsh parent and the "offspring didn't much resemble the Egyptian
onion. Then in the 19th century the true "Egyptian" onion was re introduced
into Europe. If you saw the two side by side you could see the difference.
The egyptian one does resemble garlic chives, while the Welsh onion
produces more shallot like "fruit" and is a considerably bigger and stronger
plant. The "fruit being sometimes almost purple in color, with a very
strong flavor.
The only places that onions described in one post as being long leaves
with unformed bulbs growing in the ground, is parts of England and New
England in the US. This name has come to mean the onion that the rest of us
here call green or spring onions.
Lady Katherine McGuire
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:35:58 +1200
From: Phil Anderson <hairy at sloth.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions
katherine writes:
>If you saw the two side by side you could see the
>difference. The egyptian one does resemble garlic chives, while the
>Welsh onion produces more shallot like "fruit" and is a considerably
>bigger and stronger plant.
I suspect there are some differences in local terminology hitting this
thread. I have both garlic chives and Egyptian "walking" onions (aka
Cthulhu plants) in my garden. They're both green and edible, but that's
about where the resemblance stops.
Egyptian onions are more like spring onions than anything else, but their
tubular leaves have thicker walls, and they grow onion bulbs on stalks,
which sprout more stalks, which bear more bulbs... until the whole
edifice falls over and the bulbs take root.
Garlic chives are onsiderably smaller (roughly chive-sized, surprisingly)
with solid leaves with a narrow D-shaped cross-section.
Edward Long-hair
Southron Gaard, Caid