marmalades-msg

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marmalades-msg - 3/5/11

Period marmalades and fruit jellies and jams.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:36:48 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Jellies vs. aspics

> I would find it very hard to believe that fruit

> jellies in the since that we think of them were known during the Middle

> Ages.

> Ras

If you are thinking about the clear strained jellies we have now, you're

probably right. If you are referring to fruit preserves in general, there

is at least one Elizabethan marmalade recipe in A Closet for Ladies and

Gentlewomen, 1608.

Bear

Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:52:48 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: SC - Re: Jams not period???

> > so... should I cease serving preserves, break my heart though it would?

> I find in _The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby Opened_ (1669) receipts for "Jelly

> of Currants" and "Marmulate of Cherries" at least (This is only a quick

> glance). These seem to be straight-up fruit preserves, little different from

> your father's prizewinning varieties.

I guess the real issue here is the efficacy of the preservative process.

Jams, jellies, and what we call preserves today, are usually sealed up

in preserving jars of some kind, or cans, or what have you. This is

necessary to avoid molds and other decay. One possible solution that

seems to have been employed in later period (and after) is some kind of

vessel (maybe a ceramic jar) topped with a brandy-soaked disk of

parchment, and covered with melted lard or beeswax. More commonly, in

period, fruits were preserved in sweet, spiced syrups of wine and sugar

or honey, or in the form of solid marmalades. The former method is found

in sources from Apicius on up, and the latter is found in, at the very

least, several of the 14th-century sources. The problem with accepting

Digby as a source typical of even late period for SCA purposes is his

date, even when you take into account the fact that his book was

published posthumously, and shave as many as ten years off 1669. Also, I

don't recall there's much reason to assume Digby's recipes are for

anything other than the slicing jellies and marmalades. I just think

Digby is assuming his reader will place the current, prevailing

definition of a fruit jelly or marmalade on the recipe, which is exactly

what his 20th-century readers often do, too.

> Surely this culinary process did not just appear full-blown in the seventeenth

> century. There must be antecedants, even if unrecorded. Are there earlier

> sources? What's the earliest date that can be put on a recipe for sweet fruit

> preserves?

As I say, I think there's one or more recipes for fruit preserved in

wine, honey, and spices, in Apicius, roughly 1st - 3rd century CE

(there's some question as to the identity, and therefore the date, of M.

Gavius Apicius). The next time they seem to crop up, in the sources I'm

familiar with, is in the 14th century.

Based on the availability of recipes (which isn't always the best

benchmark, but currently most of what we have to go on) the jams,

jellies, and marmalades we know today don't _seem_ to have been common

until the late 18th - early 19th century, which, coincidentally, seems

to be when canning technology made significant leaps.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:34:12 -0400

From: "LHG, JRG" <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - Jam

Are jams/jellies or anything

like this period? I would love to hear any information anyone could share

with me in this area. Thanks again.

Lady Gwyneth Blackrose

Greywood

Gwyneth---try the Good Huswife's Jewel for recipes for marmalet, etc. Yes,

it's period. In Slavic countries I understand it was a custom to offer a

spoon of jam either alone or in a glass of cold water as the ultimate in

instant hospitality (much like the irish would offer buttermilk, and not to

offer would be insulting). Jam also found it's way into wine for the

Italians, IIRC, when the result desired was dessert-like wine on the cheap

OR the drinker preferred sweet wine and none was available.

Aoife

Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:39:35 -0400

From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: marmalade question

Renna asked:

>Does anyone know if 1. Marmalade is period? and 2. doc. on the same 3.

period recipes.

There are recipes for marmalade of citrus in Plat and (I think) Markham,

which both date to right around the turn of 1600. Digby also has several

related recipes, but he's later still.

Before that period citrus fruits seem typically to have been peeled and the

peels candied. Earlier recipes for things called marmalade involve honey,

not sugar, cooked with a paste of some pre-cooked fruit (usually quince).

Neither is much like the thin slices of citrus rind in clear jelly that we

associate with the term "marmalade."

I once judged a cooking category at a pentathlon where a lady entered Red

Quince Marmalade and Yellow Quince Marmalade from Hugh Plat's recipes. They

were both delicious, and there was a very marked difference in color based

on the different methods of cooking!

Carolyn Priest-Dorman =DE=F3ra Sharptooth

capriest at cs. vassar. edu Frostahlid, Austmork

http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/thora.html

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:12:13 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - SC: Re: Marmalade

Elysant wrote:

>I'd learned as a child that the word "Marmalade" originally came from "Marie

>malade" (sick Mary) because Marmalade was regularly made for Mary Queen of

>Scots by her nurse (or cook possibly?) to keep her healthy (she was always

>sickly apparently). I'm wondering if anyone knows if this tale is true or

>not?

Marmalade originally meant "quince jam" and comes via French from Portuguese

marmelada (marmelo = quince). The earliest English reference to marmalade is

from 1524 (18 years before the birth of Queen Mary), when one box of

marmalade was presented to the king by "Hull of Exeter". The term seems

mainly to refer to quince jam throughout the 16th century.

Nanna

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:59:33 -0600

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - Marmalade

As I have not been privy to previous topics,

being newly arrived, I would like to ask whether

marmalades are of interest. Since the seasonal

availabilty of affordable quinces is upon us all,

I would entertain discussion of period marmalades.

Personally, I have made several batches over the

past few years of Condoignac and Chardequynce

according to recipies circa 1394 and circa 1444.

The problem of making this excellent food is mainly

its expense. For no small reason was this a favoured

gift to nobles; the honey and red wine was prohibatively

costly. A real jewel of a book on this subject is

THE BOOK OF MARMALADE, C. Anne Wilson, St.

Martins, NY, 1985.

Akim Yaroslavich

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 07:41:35 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Marmalade

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> While we have discussed marmalades here before, I don't

> remember any mention of them being this early or using

> honey instead of sugar so this is interesting.

See Le Menagier de Paris, and I think also some of the 14th-century

English sources, for early cotignac recipes using honey. The reason you

probably don't think of marmalade being that early might be that the

word marmalade doesn't seem to turn up in the usual French, English and

Italian sources until late period. As far as I know, offhand, anyway.

But there are several cotignac recipes, under phonetically similar but

variously spelled names, in some of the more mainstream "medieval"

sources. And there's a lovely picture of a wheel of cotignac, a

specialty of the town of Orleans, complete with an embossed picture of

the Maid of Orleans, in the Lang/American edition of the Larousse

Gastronomique.

Adamantius

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:36:49 -0600

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - RE: Marmalade

Lord Stefan li Rous in a private sending kindly brought me

up to date on recent discussions of this subject. He wrote:

> snip

>Thank you for mentioning this book. Although I have several

>other of C. Anne Wilson's books, and have been quite

>happy with them, I had not heard of this book.

>While we have discussed marmalades here before, I don't

>remember any mention of them being this early or using

>honey instead of sugar so this is interesting.

C.Anne Wilson has an extensive and exhaustive study

of marmalade in her book. Indeed the full title is

THE BOOK OF MARMALADE: Its Antecedents, Its

History and Its Role in the World Today. Actually, the

Condoignac and Chardequynce I mentioned are not

technically marmalade as we know it today, but are among

its antecedents. Indeed they descended from the 'cidonitum'

of Palladius circa 4th c.. In medieval parley, Greek

"melomeli" had become "malomellus" (Isidore of Seville, c.570

- -636 AD) a term both for the fruit quince and for the conserve.

The modern Portugese for the fruit is still "marmelo".

Ms. Wilson in her extensive history brings up the reasons why

the soft fruits other than quinces and citris did not show up as

marmalades in period. In a nutshell, because quinces must

be cooked to be edible, early on being boiled in honey, the

huge store of pectin was released to make marmalade or what

the Brits call "jams". It was not until Tudor times that other

fruits were boiled with pectin rich fruits in combination to

make other fruit marmalades. Of course, by then, sugar had

largely replaced honey as the sweetener of choice. Ms.

Wilson, as an adjunct to the marmalade history, perforce had

to include a very nice brief discourse on sugar and its Arabic

connections.

John Partidge, in his "The Treasures of Commodiious Conceites

and Hidden Secrets" c.1584, states "This wise you may make

marmalade of wardens, pears, apple and medlars, services,

checkers or strawberries, every one by himself, or mix it together,

as you think good."

I personally have only tried out the recipes for Condoignac,

Chardequynce and Palladius' cidonitum'. The results were

incredibly well received, with many sampling and commenting

how insipid modern marmalades are by comparison. Some

gentles ventured to say I could make a great deal of money

preparing these recipies commercially. But boy, Howdie, would

these be costly, I estimate $12 or more for a pint jar!

Going back to John Partidge's book, he mentions a fair number

of period fruits that are difficult to obtain today. Among them, he

mentions medlars, services and wardens. Well, in a few years they

may not be so difficult to obtain and we can try out some of these

recipes. Part of the orchard program of the Glaedenfeld Centre

includes planting a minimum of 25 each of these and other rare

European fruits. I have grown medlars before in my period

Elizabethean garden in which I grew them and about 600 other

period plant varieties. Unfortunately. the single tree nerver produced

enough fruit at once to experiment with them in marmalades rather

being eaten just to taste ordinary medlars. Another fruit I will be

growing in quanity is the Kornel or cornellian cherry, a dogwood

species. Regretably, we will have to wait close to a decade until

plantings achieve maturity and allow sufficient harvests to

experience these tastes.

At any rate, C. Anne Wilson's book is first rate imo. Her references

and bibliography are scholarly and, best of all, her historic recipes

are all translated from well documented Greek, Latin and French

sources. I have not been sufficiently familiar with this list to

know what kind of information formating you all normally share.

So if I am tantalizing you all by not quoting the actual recipes, you

must let me know. Incidentally, I do hope that the OOP banter

about "lime jello molds" and "watergate salad" are Thanksgiving

lapses into mundane cookery. It would be most disappointing

if such modern banality intrudes regularly into what should be

a period discourse.

Akim Yaroslavich

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:34:29 -0600

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - Marmalade

As I have had requests, here are a couple

of the recipes from C. Anne Wilson's book.

Chardequynce c.1444

"Chardecoynes that is good for the stomach is

thus made: take a quart of clarified honey and

2 ounces of powder of pepper and meddle them

together, and take 20 quinces and 10 wardens

(large pears) and pare them and take out the

kernels with the cores and seeth them in clean

(ale-)wort till they be tender and then stamp them in a mortar as small as

thou mayest and then strain them through a strainer and that will not (go)

well through, put in again and stamp it oft, and oft drive it through a

cloth or strainer, and if it be too dry put in half a saucerful or a little

more (of wort?) for to get out the other the better, and then put it to the

honey and set it on the fire and make it to seeth well and stir fast with a

great staff, and if there be 2 stirrers, it is the better for both (for) if

it be (not) strongly stirred, it will set (stick) to the vessel and then it

is lost; and seeth it till it (be) sodden thick and then take it down off

the fire and when it is well

nigh cold put in 1/4 ounce of ginger and as much of canell (cinnamon)

powdered, and mettle them well together with a slice (spatula) and then let

it cool and put it in a box; this manner of making is good and if it (is)

thus made it will be black; if thou wilt make more at once, take more of

each one after the proportions, as much as thou list."

This is the basic recipe which I used, though I cut back by half on the

pepper as modern tastes are not used to odd Tudor spicing. I balanced out

by increasing the ginger and cinnamon so that there would still be a strong

spicing but more acceptable modern taste. For lack of alewort, I boiled the

prepared fruit in the cheapest light English type ale I could find, not beer

as the hop flavour would not be an improvement. When I had gotten it down

to about 1/3 its volume, I ran the fruit and liquid alike through a blender

and continued to cook it until it had the consistancy of applesauce. I also

used the finest white pepper and powdered it first. I presume a great deal

of the original recipe process filtered out the larger pepper fragments in

the straining process anyway. Stir, stir, stir, and stir some more (for

several hours after adding the honey).

It actually does turn very, very dark, though black is not exactly the shade

(it was darker than dark fudge however) I got. I think you have to let the

end product cool in a wax paper lined pan to successfully cut it up and put

it in a box. I put

most of mine in jars as I did not achieve the full

consistancy of old linoleum that the recipe tends

to expect. More experienced candymakers will probably have better results

than I did. The taste however, was excellent.

C. Anne Wilson goes further in this recipe:

"another manner of making and is better than the first: for to put in 2

parts honey and 3 parts of sugar and shall this be better than the other,

and in all things do as thou did before, for thou mayest well enough seeth

thy quinces in water, and it is good enough though thou put no wort thereto,

and if thou wilt, thou make it without wardens, but it is the better with

wardens."

Been there, done that... with quinces alone. I agree with Ms Wilsons last

part of this recipe:

"The third manner of making is this, and this is the best of all, and that

is for to take sugar and quinces alike much by weight, and no honey nor

pears and in all other things do as thou didst before, and this shall be

whiter than the other, inasmuch as the sugar is white (so) shall the

chardequyence be"

(from A LEECHBOOK, Royal Medical Society MS 136, ed W.R. Dawson (1934),

62-4 , Nos. 156-8.)

Well, white is not exactly what you get with this method, but sugar then was

not white as we get it now either, The colour is about the shade of

Malt-o-meal cooked cereal. By far, this has the taste most acceptable to

modern palates, though I personally perfer the stronger flavours of the

first method. But I also eat snails, love Roman liquamen and picked eggs

too. The all quince

version tastes very good to us because, I think, that the novelty of the

quince flavour, being new and different, adds greatly to its appeal.

As I mentioned, I put up most of what I made in

ball jars and the lidded ceramic cheese pots with the rubber gasket and the

wire closure on top. As my batch was about 2 gallons each, I have been

giving away a lot of it. It seems that it will keep indefinitely and if the

open jars are refrigerated, they last forever. I still have a good bit in

the pantry, so if anyone is in the close neighborhood of Glaedenfeld Centre,

come by and we will make some fresh hot french bread and try out these

proto-marmalades.

My real favorite of Ms. Wilson's recipes is the French, wine based

Condoignac c.1394:

"Take the quinces and peel them. Then divide into quarters, and discard the

eye and the pips. Then cook them in a good red wine and then they are to be

straine through a sieve. then take honey, and boil it for a long time and

remove the scum, and afterwards put your quinces (wine/quince mash) into it

and stir very well, and lrt it boil until the honey is reduced to at least

to half. Then throw in hippocras powder (powdered cinnamon, nutmeg and

ginger) and stir until it is quite cold. Then cut into pieces and store

them.

(LE MENAGIER DE PARIS, ed. G. E. Brereton & J, M, Ferrier, Oxford, 1981,

p.269.)

Remember that a good red wine of this period is nothing like modern bordeux

or burgundy because they were not aged in the bottle as today. I have

assumed that wine with more grape musts and sugar of a period "good red" was

more fruity tasting, so I used 10 liters of Franzia "Chillable Red" for cost

and flavour reasons both. It also helped make the interminable stirring

more tolerable sipping the excess wine. Again to save time and prevent

burning, I pulped the reduced wine and quinces in a blender and reduced this

further till it thickened. Then I added the honey to it. Don't do it the

other way around as the very hot clarified honey will explosively boil over

the instant the first dollup of paste hits its surface. Do you know how

hard it is to get burnt honey out from under your burner pans? You DO NOT

want to know! In this recipe, the quantity of spicing is not given, so I

did it to taste but probably heavier than modern tastes as the period foods

all seem more heavily spiced to us. I also used the c.1444 as a guide

somewhat to the corrrect spicing per quart of honey (about 1/4 ounce of

each spice) and quince paste volume. I reduced it down to a very dark paste

with the consistancy of soft taffy. Again candymakers probably will have

more slicable results. The flavour imo is quite good and I prefer it to the

other recipes, though my opinion on this is not shared by others.

I hope this information will be of interest and use to

many of you. By all means possible, get your hands on a copy of this book;

it is a prize!

Akim Yaroslavich

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:25:36 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>

Subject: SC - marmalade & research library

Let me mention two additional titles, that might be pertinent to the(pre-)history of marmalade. They show, that these preparations could beboth medical and culinary:-

-- Liliane Plouvier: Le letuaire, une confiture du Bas Moyen Age. In:Lambert, C. (éd): Du manuscrit à la table. Montréal/ Paris 1992,243-256.-

-- Walther Ryff (Gualtherus Ryffius): Confect Buechlin/ vnd HaußApoteck. (...) Frankfurt a.M. 1544. Reprint Leipzig/ München 1983. (onquinces see fol. 22b_ss.; fol. 72a_ss.; fol. 104b_ss.).Some of the German "Latwergen" described by Ryff might also belong tothe _antecedents_ of marmelade. Ryff has several recipes with vinegar,honey and spices (fol. 22b-26a). According to Ryff, he is relying onancient recipes ("... haben die alten genommen ..."). Thus, we must beprepared to find (versions of) ancient recipes in early modern recipe collections.

Akim Yaroslavich wrote:

<<< Indeed they descended from the 'cidonitum' of Palladius circa 4th c.

>>>Do you mean the two recipes for "cydonites" in Palladius lib. 11.20 (ed.Rodgers p. 213), or is there yet another passage pertinent to the history of marmalade?

Regarding Palladius 11.20, I wonder what the honey, Palladius mentions, was like: "dehinc in melle decoques, donec ad mensuram mediamreuertatur"? Does that mean- -- (a) that one has to boil the pieces of quinces until they are half of their original size or- -- (b) does that mean that the whole fluid must boil down to half of its original measure? Columella, in a recipe for the preservation of quinces, says that one should fill the vessel with the quinces "optimo et liquid issimo melle"'with the best and the most liquid honey'.<<< Of course, by then, sugar had largely replaced honey as the sweetener of choice. >>>The main function of the honey seems to be preservative. Columella saysin the passage about the preserving of quinces: "nam ea mellis estnatura, ut coerceat vitia nec serpere ea patiatur. qua ex causa etiamexanimum corpus hominis per annos plurimos innoxium conservat" (Col.XII, 47.4). Roughly: 'It is the nature of the honey to stop defects and not to allow that the defects develop any further. This is the reason why honey conserves even a dead human body for several years without defect'.

Thomas

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:23:21 -0600

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - Replies to Centre, marmalde and russian recipe queries

Thomas asked on 28 Nov 1999 01:25:

<Akim Yaroslavich wrote:

<<< Indeed they descended from the 'cidonitum' of Palladius circa 4th c.>>>

>Do you mean the two recipes for "cydonites" in Palladius lib. 11.20 (ed.

>Rodgers p. 213), or is there yet another passage pertinent to the history of

>marmalade?

Yes, the two from Opus Agriculturae, II.20.

>Palladius mentions, was like: "dehinc in melle >decoques, donec ad mensuram

>mediam reuertatur"? Does that mean

>- -- (a) that one has to boil the pieces of quinces until they are half of

their >original size or

>- -- (b) does that mean that the whole fluid must boil down to half of its

original measure?

I say (b) since my experience with boiling the fruit has shown me it does

not shrink noticably no matter how long you boil the pieces.

>Roughly:'It is the nature of the honey to stop defects and not to allow that

>the defects develop any further. This is the reason why honey conserves even a

>dead human body for several years without defect'.

A lovely image there Thomas, even though likely true.

Akim Yaroslavich

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:11:55 -0400 (EDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - Orange Marmelade Period?

Greetings. The best (and most definitive?) book on the

topic of marmelades is by C. Anne Wilson, _The Book of

Marmalade_, Prospect Books, 1999, ISBN 1 903018 03 X. (It

should be on Prospect Book's website.) Chapter III deals

with orange marmelade, and the short of it is (if I read

correctly) that what we know as orange marmalade was developed

around the reign of Charles II, out of period.

Her first sentence reads, "Quince marmalade was the basic form

of the conserve, the one that the Tudor and Stuart preserving

books simply designated as 'marmalade', often without further

qualification. However, _The Secrets of Alexis of Piedmont_

(1562 into English) has a quince recipe which concludes, "In

the like manner may you dress and trim peaches, pears, and other

kinds of fruits." These marmalades, however, were fairly stiff

and were stored in boxes, not glass jars.

On page 49 Ms. Wilson says, "The idea of cutting orange-peel into

the shreds or chips which were later to characterise British

can be traced back to this period, and in particular to the pippin

jellies and marmalades invented by the members of the circle of the

Court of King Charles II." La Varenne (definitely OOP) had a recipe

for a soft jelly which could be/was stored in pots or glasses, and

was (if I read correctly) called a marmelade. "A true orange

marmelade had now emerged, made from Seville oranges set by their

pectin without any assistance from pippins, and this too was potted,

not boxed...one very early maker of true marmelade was the mother

of Rebecca Price...(who)...copied the instructions for 'marmelett

of oringes: my mother's receipt' into her own recipe book in 1681."

So, no. Orange marmelade can't really be considered period unless

one makes a thick, solid marmelade that contains apples to help it

set, and has no real shreds of peel in it.

Wilson's book has recipes in it, arranged in chronological order.

The first is from the 1st century AD and is made from quinces and

honey. Also included are selected recipes for meat cookery which

incorporate marmelade, as well as sauces, puddings and desserts,

cakes, and sandwiches. These do not appear to be "historical"

since no dates are attached, or if they are, they are from recent

times. I'm hungry...

Alys Katharine

From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:33:13 -0500

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Online Glossary

Cindy queried about Quodiniack. It's the same as quiddony,

condiniak, and other spelling permutations. It's a quince paste.

Alys Katharine

Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 17:54:02 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jams & Preserves (Redaction)

Lady Johnnae llyn Lewis sends greetings.

If you want to do work with marmalades, you should

probably spring for a copy of C. Anne Wilson's

The Book of Marmalade. It's now in a revised second

edition published in paperback by the the University

of Pennsylvania Press, 1999. ISBN: 0-8122-1727-6.

http://www.acanthus-books.com has it for 17.00 dollars.

It's still one of the best single food reference volumes

ever written. History, traditions, and recipes both

historical and modern with reminders as to how to proceed

when converting older recipes for today. Wilson mentions

one thing that people swear by is to use cane sugar and

not beet sugar. It contains 13 pre-1700 historic recipes,

so that would give you a range of choices and allow for

more experimentation.

From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Honey Butter? No! No!

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:28:14 -0500

> And are you going to share the recipe with us? Pretty please?

> - Beathog

Not a problem. Unfortunately I have misplaced my copy of Banqueting Stuff so

I cannot provide the original recepit. Maybe some other kind gentle could

provide the original.

The red marmalade was made by adding red food coloring to the marmalade. I

did this because I served the marmalade cut into triangles and then arranged

into diamonds. I decided the diamonds would look nice particolored, so I

added red food coloring (it was also 2 am and was really sick of looking at

orange marmalade).

Serena da Riva

Orange Marmalade

From Banqueting Stuff, taken from Hugh Platt's Delights for Ladies

5 Oranges (we used Temple, you should make sure not to get Naval)

5 Apples (we used Gala, but need to find one with more pectin)

150 ml water

A large amount of sugar

Wash the Oranges very well in hot water. Commercial orange growers wax their

oranges for protection and to make them look shiny & lovely, if you leave

the wax on the oranges it will ruin your marmalade. Peel, core and seed

apples, then place in large stainless pot. Place a large strainer over the

pot and quarter the oranges over the strainer. Remove the seeds and then

squeeze into pot. Place all of the orange, except the seeds, in with the

apples. Add 150 ml of water to the pot and then bring it all to a gentle

simmer. Cover and simmer for 1 hour (or until the apples are squishy and the

orange peel is very soft), stirring to prevent sticking.

Pick out the orange peels and remove the pulp from the peel. Pick out the

apples and leave the juice in the pot. Place the apple and orange pulp into

a blender and blend until smooth. Pour blended mixture through a strainer

into a bowl, then pour juice out of pot into bowl, stir well. Weigh the pulp

mixture and return it to the cooking pot. Add an equal weight of sugar and

stir over low heat. Stir until all of the sugar has been dissolved (if you

run your spoon along the bottom or sides of the pot and feel graininess -

keep stirring).

Theoretically the marmalade will set up into a very stiff paste that can be

turned out onto a surface and then formed into a block. Our apples did not

have enough pectin to set up, so we added Sure-Jell=AE. We used =BD a packet of

Sure-Jell=AE per batch, stir it in until dissolved and then bring the

marmalade to a vigorous boil. Boil for exactly one minute and then take off

of heat. Pour marmalade into greased pans to create freestanding blocks. For

good, non-period, storage this can also be poured into canning jars.

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:58:40 -0500

From: "Elaine Koogler" <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Citron?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I didn't order seville oranges per se. I ordered Mamade orange marmalade

preparation, which was the oranges all cut up and ready for making into

marmalade. I got cans of the stuff from Penny HaPenny

(www.pennyhapenny.com).

Kiri

Date: 16 Feb 2004 17:38:4 -0800

From: Colleen L McDonald <Colleen.McDonald at comcast.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Codigniato recipe?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I've come across a reference in C. Anne Wilson's _The Book of Marmelade_

to a 15th century Venetian recipe for codigniato, which is supposed to

be similar to the condoignac recipe in _Le Menager_.

The source that is cited is: E. Faccioli, Arte della Cuisine (Milan,

166) also labelled as _Liber per cuoco_.

Has anyone seen this book/manuscript/recipe? Is there a copy anywhere

on line?

Cainder

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:58:24 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smthson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: codogniato

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Actually the Italian and my rough translation of this

are available on the web.

The Italian transcription of Libro di cucina/ Libro

per cuoco is available here

http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/frati.htm

Courtesy of Thomas Gloning.

And a rough translation was available here:

http://www.geocities.com/hlewyse/libro.html

However, I have polished it and the recipe now looks

something like this:

CXXXIII. A ffare codogniato bono vantagiato.

Toy le codogne e mondale e lessale in aqua tanto chote

che se desfazeno; piglia uno bacino forado o la

gratachasa, e ratali tanto fina che tu tragi tuto el

buono, e guarda ch' el non ge vada le granelle dentro

el gratato. Salva per 3 iorni al aiere questo gratato

inanzi che tu li meti in lo mele, poi per ogni libra

de codogni gratati vol essere libre 3 de mele. Fa

bolir tanto inseme quanto ch' el mele sia cocto e

spezie fine e se tu la vole per li amaladi, metili a

bolire un pocho de zucharo, per libre 3 de chodognato

vol essere onze vj de zucharo in cambio de specie.

Quando sia choto distendilo suso una tavola bagnata

hon l' aqua frescha, e fala a modo de foie de pasta

grosi mancho de mezo dido, e fane a modo de schachi e

mitili in uno albarello con spezie e con aloro: zoè

quella che non è per i malati vole bolire duo hore

presso fino ch' è cocto sempre menando. Questochodogniato vole coxendolo senpre esser ben menato con

uno baston spachato, etc.

Expliciunt.

CXXXIII To make a good and fantastic marmalade of quinces.

Take the quinces, peel them and then boil them in

water, enough so that they soften. Take colander or

rater and grate the quinces very finely all the good

(flesh). Watch that you don’t get seeds into the

grated (mixture). Keep the grated quinces in the air

for three days before you put them into the honey (dry

them). Then for every pound of grated quinces one

wants three pounds of honey. Put these two things to

boil together until the honey is cooked, add fine

spices (to the mixture) if you want and put to boil a

little bit of sugar. For 3 pounds of quince marmalade

you will have 6 ounces of sugar instead of the spices.

When it is cooked spread it over a table, which has

been bathed with cold water. And make in the way that

one makes a sheet of pasta, as thick as a little less

than half a finger. And make them in the way of

rolled wafers (form tube I am assuming) and put them

in a ceramic pot (albarello) with spices and laurel

leaves. To prevent spoilage you should always boil

for two hours before it finishes cooking, mixing

constantly. This quince marmalade should always be

cooked while mixing wlll with a flat wooden stirrer.

It is finished.

Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:48:39 -0400

From: "franiccolo" <franiccolo at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jams and Jellies in period

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

It is fairly widely held among these parts that canel is basically 'cassia'

(Cassia cinnamomum) of modern spice. Americans use it as their powdered

'Cinnamon' in grocery stores around the country. (It's all about

English/Dutch trade around the time of the Revolution).

Synamon would probably been closer to Zeylanicum cinnamomum, or Ceylon

Cinnamon. It is almost papery, sweeter, a little spicier in its qualities.

English recipes often use Cassia and cinnamon together in the 13th to 15th

centuries from what I have cooked from sources. I do the same thing myself

since I have learned the differences some years back. Cinnamon rolls aren't

the same anymore :o)

maestro niccolo difrancesco

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:56:32 -0500

From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Quinces and Marmalade

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Etain wrote:

> The recipes for quince paste that I have read

> (late English sources) refer to rolling and "stamping" the

> paste...or rolling it on a mold. This sounded more like a candy to me.

From what I remember, the original marmalades were like a fruit paste. You

can see paintings of some marmalades in Dutch paintings, particularly.

They sit in oval or round boxes made from thin wood, very like the

Amish-made boxes and boxes available in hobby stores like Michael's. Etain

is correct that the paste was more like a candy than what we know today as

marmalade.

Alys Katharine

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:07:57 +0100

From: agora at algonet.se

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces and Marmalade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In Spain and South America, Mexico included, quince jam is a solid jam.

The jam is dark red and can be eaten [like] cheese.

[There is] a quince marmalade as well, but is not so common.

In Spanish quinces are called "membrillos".

In Brasil the same solid jam is made of guava fruits and its called

"guayabada".

They are sold in boxes or wrapped. They are not liquid at all.

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:25:11 -0800 (PST)

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-coks] Quinces and Marmalade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

--- Mark Hendershott <crimlaw at jeffnet.org> wrote:

> That's the stuf. I made some which is drying right now. Basically make

> "quince sauce" in the same way a applesauce then add an equal weight of

> sugar and cook a while longer. pour out onto parchment paper lined sheet

> pans and let cool. Let it dry, flipping occasionally. I think it will

> take a month or so. We tested it with some cheese. This is the stuff I

> like so much on a visit to Spain.

I poured my quince paste right onto the countertop, spread it with an offset spatula, and let it cool unti it was cool enough to handle. I then slipped it into my mold, stamped it, and unmolded it immediately. Left on a cookie sheet, it was dry enough to handle without sticking after only a few hours. Slightly chewy, but very nice. I'm assuming the small molded pieces will dry faster than a large slab of it.

William de Grandfort

Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 06:24:41 -0400

From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Condoignac by Any Other Name...

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Nichola commented:

> I must look up what the Condoignac is exactly

> but I definitely appreciate the setting the stage

> and documenting.

It's quince paste and is known and spelled by many names: quiddony,

cotignac and a bunch of other variations that sound similar if you read the

word aloud. It's very popular in English cookery books in the 1500s and

1600s.

Alys Katharine

Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 07:03:02 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Condoignac by Any Other Name...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On May 25, 2005, at 6:24 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Nichola commented:

>> I must look up what the Condoignac is exactly

>> but I definitely appreciate the setting the stage and documenting.

> It's quince paste and is known and spelled by many names: quiddony,

> cotignac and a bunch of other variations that sound similar if you read the

> word aloud. It's very popular in English cookery books in the 1500s and

> 1600s.

> Alys Katharine

Yup. A.k.a. marmalade (at least in marmalade's likely original form),

and produced and sold commercially in France as coins cotignac, which

is considered a specialty of Orleans, bearing the stamped image of an

equestrian Jeanne d'Arc. Another product largely unchanged from its

medieval form is eaten in Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries

as queso de membrillo.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 08:28:01 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Condoignac by Any Other Name...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Pretty pictures of quiddany or cotoniack including

a great molded stag at

http://www.historicfood.com/Quinces%20Recipe.htm

Johnnae

Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:09:46 +1300

From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cranberry sauce (was Re: Report on

Thanksgiving experiments) OOP

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Daniel Myers wrote:

> This leads me to a medieval-relevant question: Are there any lists

> out there of period fruits with high pectin contents? I know that

> quince has quite a lot of pectin, and that gooseberries are also

> supposed to be good for jellies. Any others? Commercial pectin is

> made from apples, yes? Can apples be cooked to a jelly (and not be

> just thick applesauce)? How about plums?

Yes, apples can most definitely be cooked to a jelly, as can red or

black currants, quinces.

More about fruit pectin levels:

http://www.pickyourown.org/pectin.htm

Adele de Maisieres

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:08:54 +0000

From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac Was: Late SCA-Period Sweets?

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

>> Speaking of cotignac, is there a trick? When I cook down quinces (or

>> Japanese quinces) I get something like applesauce. Is cotignac made from

>> the strained juice? The references I've seen don't seem to say that.

>> Sandra

> Yup...pretty much what I got. So what I did was to cook it longer, then

> spread it out in a flat pan...and left it to dry out. Which it seemed

> to do after several days. Surely I've missed something?

> Kiri

Hmm, I've never tried it without honey or sugar. The recipe from Menagier

de Paris uses honey. That takes longer. IF you've added extra sugar (or

honey) and IF the quinces aren't too overripe then it's just like making jam

but boiled down a little more. Use the full pulp, not just juice. If you

cook it until a wooden spoon pulled across the bottom of the pan leaves a

track for about 2 seconds, it will usually set up as soon as it's cool. I

use a baking sheet with a light coating of cooking spray, sprinkled with

sugar. Though I'd love to get a more period mold someday.

Femke

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:23:46 +0200

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac Was: Late SCA-Period Sweets?

To: dailleurs at liripipe.com, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2006 20:15 schrieb Anne-Marie Rousseau:

> do we know of any period recipes for doing this with things other than

> quince?

de Rontzier (Western Germany, very late 16th century) describes similar

confections made with pears, apples, cheeries and apricots. The fruit are to

be boiled long, but very carefully, and if possible the whole to remain

chunky.

Giano

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:28:48 +0200

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2006 20:18 schrieb Sandra Kisner:

>> Hmm, I've never tried it without honey or sugar. The recipe from Menagier

>> de Paris uses honey. That takes longer. IF you've added extra sugar (or

>> honey) and IF the quinces aren't too overripe then it's just like making

>> jam but boiled down a little more. Use the full pulp, not just juice.

>> If you cook it until a wooden spoon pulled arcoss the bottom of the pan

>> leaves a track for about 2 seconds, it will usually set up as soon as

>> it's cool. I use a baking sheet with a light coating of cooking spray,

>> sprinkled with sugar. Though I'd love to get a more period mold someday.

> I've tried that, but ended up adding so much sugar I felt like I

> was making candy.

Basically, you *are* making candy - well, all but. It is supposed to be very

sweet. I saw a documentary on that a few years ago, and they still make

cotignac in Western France. Modern cotignac is made with the filtered juice

of quinces and refined sugar (they claim their antecedents in the

Renaissance, which I'll believe, but I haven't found the exact reference).

The whole is cooked until it is boiled down to the point of jelling stiff,

then poured into wooden boxes and cooled. The liquid reduces by IIRC more

than two thirds in the process.

Giano

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:02:48 +0000

From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

> I've tried that, but ended up adding so much sugar I felt like I was making

> candy. The paste/sauce even looked quite glossy, but still tasted like it

> needed more. If that was because the quinces weren't ripe, how do I know

> when they are? They never soften, and they smelled lovely, so I

> thought they were ready.

> Sandra

For a rule of thumb, I tend to end up with equal weights of pulp and sugar

to start with, or nearly so. Ripeness judging in quinces depends on the

variety. Those I have access to locally tend to get more golden in color as

they ripen, and their aroma gets even stronger. You're right, they don't

soften until they've downright gone off. By which point they ripening

process has produced enough pectinase enzymes that getting things to set is

a little more difficult.

It takes quite a while to get them boiled down. Plan on reducing the volume

by half or more, depending on local weather conditions.

I've made it with quinces, plums, apples, pears, gooseberries and

blackberries. Markham's "The English Housewife" has a paste recipe that

lists a variety of fruit that can be used. Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book

has the recipe for gooseberry paste.

The fun thing is that it keeps beatifully in an airtight container. You

could make some now with in season fruits for Twelfth Night gift giving.

Femke

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:07:24 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac Was: Late SCA-Period Sweets?

To: dailleurs at liripipe.com, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Ivan Day had us make knots with boiled down apples in April because

he was unable to get quinces at that time.

See his pretty quince recipes at

http://www.historicfood.com/Quinces%20Recipe.htm

There are recipes titled for "quyncis or wardouns in paste" in Harl.

279. Pears may

be interchanged with quinces in the perys in confyte recipe 86 in An

Ordinance of Pottage.

Johnnae

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:

> snipped do we know of any period recipes for doing this with things

> other than quince?

> --Anne-Marie, who can only eat so many pies... and has three apple

> trees and two pear trees, along with the baby quince and three baby fig trees :)

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:09:45 EDT

From: Devra at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] contignac

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

No, there isn't a special trick; you just have to keep cooking it and keep

cooking it and keep cooking it. Stirring occasionally. When we made apple

paste at Ivan Day's it took forever. He kept saying, 'Just five more minutes' and then'Five more minutes'... When we turned it out, it wasn't done enough,

and we had to put it back into the pot again. A crock pot with the lid off for

the last hour or so might be a way to do it.

Devra

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:27:13 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cotignac

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There are a number of quidony and pastes recipes

also in A Booke of Sweetmeats from Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery.

S198, S199 call for quinces. S200 calls for pippins,

S201 calls for apricocks or pear plums, S202 plums,

S203 pippins either green or old, S204 gooseberries,

S205 English currans, S206 repas [raspberries], S207 raspas and red roses.

Then there are all the pastes and jellies.

I think there ought to be enough recipes in that manuscript to take

care of your fruit harvest, Anne Marie.

Johnnae

> Anne-Marie, who can only eat so many pies... and has three apple

> trees and two pear

> trees, along with the baby quince and three baby fig trees

> I've made it with quinces, plums, apples, pears, gooseberries and

> blackberries. Markham's "The English Housewife" has a paste recipe that

> lists a variety of fruit that can be used. Elinor Fettiplace's

> Receipt Book has the recipe for gooseberry paste.snipped

> Femke

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:00:17 -0600

From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] contignac

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Crock pots *totally rock* for this sort of thing. I made the "black" part

of a black and white quince paste (from Fettiplace) quite successfully,

several years ago. Haven't had the chance to repeat it since then, though,

because I haven't had another chance at quinces....

--Maire

> and we had to put it back into the pot again. A crock pot with the

> lid off for the last hour or so might be a way to do it.

> Devra

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:51:50 -0600

From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] contignac

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I think I did the *initial* cooking (prepared fruit, some water, the sugar)

on the stove top. When the fruit had gotten soft enough, I put it through a

food mill (I have a china cap one), and put the (sweetened) puree into the

crockpot, and turned it on low. No lid, 'cuz I was trying to get it to

thicken quite a bit. Stirred it once an hour or so. IIRC, I did it over

the course of a weekend (I get the willies thinking of leaving something

like that plugged in when I'm not around.) I think I started it so that it

first went into the crockpot in the evening, but I'm not positive, sorry.

It's been a while.

It started out looking like a sort-of pink-tinged apple sauce, thickened to

an apple butter, and continued to thicken. The longer it cooked, the darker

red/purple it got, until the final product (which was pretty stiff) was such

a dark purple it was almost black.

The "light/white" half of the paste is cooked much more quickly, to minimize

the exposure of the fruit to the heat (to minimize the color change, I

assume). When finished, it had a completely different texture-- almost like

dried, sweetened papaya spears, rather than a flexible, but dry fruit paste.

I'm not sure (since I didn't have a chance to repeat it) if that was an

error on my part with the sugar, or just the nature of the two different

cooking methods.

Lots of fun to play with, though. ;o)

--Maire

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:44:23 +0000

From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste...

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I've done a few different things.

1. Cheap wood boxes, with the interiors rubbed with beeswax. Try to make

sure they're food grade. I had mine made by a handy-dandy woodworker who

was feeling both experimental and helpful.

2. Stoneware "shortbread" molds. Oil these up VERY well. If they're very

detailed, a paste will want to stick.

3. A flat surface like a metal baking sheet or a corian cutting board. If

you've cooked them down properly, you don't really need sides, it will stay

as a mass about 1/4" thick. I usually just dust the sheet with sugar, then

pour the paste, then dust with more sugar. When it hardens, I peel the

whole sheet loose and cut into squares.

Any of these can then be stored in an airtight container. Line it with

aluminum foil or parchment paper if you like. I've had them last at least 9

months with no notable change in flavor or texture. Left out,

they'll get hard as rocks in time.

> OK, this may sound silly, but i don't know what i should be pouring

> my fruit pastes into. I need to keep them about 6 weeks. Most

> "period" recipes say to pour them into boxes, but i don't have a

> handy supply of 16th C. fruit paste boxes around :-)

> I haven't made any fruit pastes yet because i haven't answered this

> question.

> If it should be the consensus that plastic is the thing, i don't have

> any, so i'll have to buy some - what's good? AND i'd prefer to keep

> the fruit pastes from direct contact with the plastic. What should i

> line the plastic with that will peel off the fruit paste (and,

> please, not plastic wrap :-)

> --

> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

> the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:38:20 -0700

From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste...

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Sorry, but when I did fruit pastes, I poured the fruit sludge/stuff into

plastic-wrap lined cookie sheets that had a good lip on them, almost like a

jelly-roll pan.

I've long wished I had access to some of the boxes and stamps

mentioned in period literature! ;o)

--Maire

> OK, this may sound silly, but i don't know what i should be pouring

> my fruit pastes into. I need to keep them about 6 weeks. Most

> "period" recipes say to pour them into boxes, but i don't have a

> handy supply of 16th C. fruit paste boxes around :-)

> --

> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:08:15 -0400

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query

<<< I have been told, though I haven't tried it yet, that a really good way to boil down the quince mixture to get the paste is to do it in a crock pot...leaving the lid off so it will reduce. >>>

I tried using a crockpot for plum preserves and it didn't work at

all. They got brown and nasty and smelled like prunes, but hadn't

thickened. I did a second batch in a sheet pan spread out half an

inch thick in a low oven, and it worked brilliantly. I got clear

pink beautiful preserves that tasted great. That was plums not

quinces. I had the crockpot close to full. Maybe it would work with

a smaller batch.

Ranvaig

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:22:23 -0600

From: "S CLEMENGER" <sclemenger at msn.com>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query

I've used the crockpot to make both "white" and "black" quince paste, and it

worked brilliantly. I would have loved to have had that old crockpot when I

was making apple butter a few weeks ago. Good LORD I had to watch it like a

hawk as it thickened, and it took days!

--Maire

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:19:01 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query

http://yearoftheglutton.blogspot.com/2007/10/slow-baked-quinces-with-mascarpone.html

http://www.squidoo.com/quinces

http://restisnotidleness.blogspot.com/2009/04/quince-paste.html

Beth Hensperger in Not Your Mother's Slow Cooker Cookbook says

"Combine the quince, water, sugar, vanilla bean, and lemon zest and

juice in the slow cooker. Cover and cook on LOW for 5 to 7 hours."

Johnnae

On Oct 14, 2009, at 10:22 AM, S CLEMENGER wrote:

<<< I've used the crockpot to make both "white" and "black" quince

paste, and it worked brilliantly. I would have loved to have had that old

crockpot when I was making apple butter a few weeks ago. Good LORD I had to watch it like a hawk as it thickened, and it took days!

--Maire >>>