cherries-msg – 7/13/06
Period cherries and cherry dishes. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: fruit-apples-msg, fruit-quinces-msg. sugar-msg,
vegetables-msg, melons-msg, nuts-msg, pomegranates-msg, fruits-msg, pies-msg,
fruit-pies-msg, wines-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:22:57 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cherries
Mark Harris wrote:
> Is this Russian Cherry Soup period? Sounds like it probably isn't. Could
> you please post this recipe anyway? Or send to me by email? It sounds
> interesting.
I suspect that it probably is period, or derived from some earlier
version that is. An earlier version of the "Syrosye" recipe calls for
the inclusion of "vlehs gret", or great flesh, which is probably chunks
or slices of a large joint cooked (or partly cooked) whole and
separately, either by boiling or roasting. The thickening of bread
crumbs suggests it is quite early, too. Actually the Russian Cherry Soup
sounds like borscht made with cherries. (Doesn't borscht just mean soup
anyway? But you know what I mean.)
> I've only occasionaaly found fresh cherries in the grocery and they were
> probably the sweet kind. Anyone know how/where to get these sour cherries?
They can be bought at Middle Eastern, Eastern European (and Russian ;
) ) markets. Usually packed in jars of sour cherry juice. Sometimes
pitted, sometimes not.
> What kind(s) of cherries were known in medieval europe?
I believe Montmorenceys are period. They were brought to the New World
early on. Bing cherries, probably the most common American variety, are
quite late indeed (like late 19th, early 20th century). Other than that
I don't know.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:03:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Subject: Re: SC - cherries
It is unfortunate that down here in Ansteorra you can only get Bing
Cherries fresh for the most part and for a very limited time. The weather
doesn't like them down here. You can sometimes get Ranier which are a
yellow cherry with a red blush. They are sweet as well. Occaisionally you
can cans of sour cherries in larger grocery store (HEB and Central Market
(Austin) ). It pays to buy amounts of uncommon foods to encourage the
expansion of the gene pool and more variety.
Apples down here in Ansteorra are starting to get really diverse, as well
as oranges. We can get Seville oranges when they are in season now as well
as blood oranges.
Clare St. John
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:50:29 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries
lwperkins wrote:
> Aislinn wrote regarding dried cherries....
> "I have been making them as
> > Pennsic snack food since cherries have been on sale frequently this
> year"...
> And I have to ask: how do you dry cherries so they don't mold first? Low
> oven?.....
A low oven will do it if it's low enough: ideally it needs to be set for
150-175 degrees F. Other options include a food dehydrator, and Mr.
Golden Sun, in appropriate weather/humidity. You can make a wooden frame
and stretch window screen stuff (the nylon stuff is good because it's
non-reactive) over it.
It's also a good idea to pit them, if you want to, AFTER drying. The
idea is that the juice remains in the cherry while drying, and the extra
sugar and flavor aren't lost.
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:49:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries
A low oven will do it if it's low enough: ideally it needs to be set for
150-175 degrees F. Other options include a food dehydrator, and Mr.
Golden Sun, in appropriate weather/humidity. You can make a wooden frame
and stretch window screen stuff (the nylon stuff is good because it's
non-reactive) over it.
Home made food dehyrdators were all the rage around here a few years ago,
before the commercial ones became available. To handwave the design, make a
square or rectangular vertical plywood box, with a lid, but with gaps at
the top and bottom, and with a door in the front, and pull out grates or
screens. Underneath it all, add a drip tray, a 100 watt bulb, and place
some foil over the bulb to keep the food off it. Gaps at the top and bottom
allow warm air to rise, and drive the moisture off.
Tibor
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 11:16:00 -0500
From: "Suzanne Berry"<sberry at primavera.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries
>It's also a good idea to pit them, if you want to, AFTER drying. The
>idea is that the juice remains in the cherry while drying, and the extra
>sugar and flavor aren't lost.
>Adamantius
I don't mean to contradict an expert, but my directions call for (and
I've had good luck with) pitting them when they're half-dry. You
simply squeeze them a bit, and the pits pop right out.
- Aislinn
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:47:38 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - dried sour cherries
Mark Harris wrote:
> I too, noticed these small bags of cherries in the grocery this last Sunday.
> They were in fact, labeled "tart" cherries. And yes, they were rather
> expensive although since they were dried they might go further once
> rehydrated.
It takes about 4 pounds of fresh cherries to make one pound of dried,
so, for each pound of dried cherries you buy, you are paying for 4
pounds (or so) of cherries, plus the cost of drying them. I believe I
get them for around $4 a pound, IIRC.
Adamantius
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: A couple questions . . ..
> 3) What about subsitutions? I am in the midst of gathering recipes for a
> killer menu for Crown Tourney this next weekend, and I was thinking about
> the "Strawberye" but using cherries and Kirschwasser instead ('coz I have
> cherries)
I can't speak for the Kirschwasser, but there are surviving recipes for
cherries. In fact, the "Strawberye" recipe you're thinking of,
presumably the one from Harleian ms. 279, is followed IMMEDIATELY in the
manuscript by one for cherries. So rather than adapting "Strawberye" to
cherries myself, I would use the 15th-century recipe whose author thought
it was similar enough to put them on the same page.
Strawberye: Take Strawberys, & waysshe hem in tyme of 3ere in gode red
wyne; [th]an strayne [th]orwe a clo[th]e, & do hem in a potte with gode
Almaunde mylke, a-lay it with Amyndoun o[th]er with [th]e flowre of Rys,
& make it chargeaunt and lat it boyle, and do [th]er-in Roysonys of
coraunce, Safroun, Pepir, Sugre grete plente, pouder Gyngere, Canel,
Galyngale; poynte it with Vynegre, & a lytil whyte grece put [th]er-to;
coloure it with Alkenade, & droppe it a-bowte, plante it with [th]e
graynys of Pome-garnad, & [th]an serue it forth.
Chyryoun: Take Chyryis, & pike out [th]e stonys, waysshe hem clene in
wyne, [th]an wryng hem [th]orw a clo[th]e, & do it on a potte, & do
[th]er-to whyte grece a quantyte, & a partye of Floure of Rys, & make it
chargeaunt; do [th]er-to hwyte Hony or Sugre, poynte it with Venegre;
A-force it with stronge pouder of Canelle & of Galyngale, & a-lye it
with a grete porcyoun of 3olkys of Eyroun; coloure it with Safroun or
Saunderys; & whan [th]ou seruyste in, plante it with Chyrioun, & serue
f[orth].
Notice the following differences:
1) the cherry recipe doesn't call for almond milk, currants, pepper, or
ginger; maybe the author and/or his patron felt that these flavors went
well with strawberries but not with cherries.
2) the cherry recipe, after being thickened with rice flour, is further
thickened with "a grete porcyoun" of eggyolks. I don't know why the
author chose to do this with cherries and not with strawberries, but
lacking evidence to the contrary, I'd follow his lead.
3) the strawberry recipe is colored purple with alkenade, while the
cherry recipe is colored yellow with saffron or red with sandalwood.
4) the strawberry recipe is garnished with pomegranate seeds, the cherry
recipe with whole cherries.
I would start by following the cherry recipe as closely as possible,
using a known-tasty redaction of "Strawberye" to get a first
approximation of the quantities. If I had time (which you don't between
now and next weekend), I would experiment with each of the above
differences and try to figure out why they are there.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:43:27 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Cherry soup? Or cherry pudding?
"Peters, Rise J." wrote:
> So... do you have a recipe you're willing to share? Since you say "always
> made" it, I'm assuming it turned out well enough that you were willing to
> eat it more than once.<g>
Courtesy of East Kingdom 12th Night, A.S. XXXI...
Syrosye
³To make a syrosye. Tak cheryes & do out *e stones & grynde hem wel &
draw hem *orw a streynoure & do it in a pot. & do *erto whit gres or
swete botere & myed wastel bred, & cast *erto good wyn & sugre, & salte
it & stere it wel togedere, & dresse it in disches; & set *eryn clowe
gilofre, & strew sugre aboue.²
Curye On Inglysch, Book III, Utilis Coquinario, Ed. Constance B.
Hieatt & Sharon Butler, Oxford University Press, Oxford 1985
In other words... To make some cherries. Take cherries, pit them, pureé
them, and put them in a pot. Add lard or sweet butter and some white
bread crumbs, and add some good wine and sugar. Salt it and stir well,
serve it in dishes, and garnish with cloves and sugar.
Iım assuming some actual cooking takes place here, if only to melt the
lard or butter. Bread crumbs are a matter of taste. I opted for a
rather thin soup, but the actual dish was probably a bit thicker. Some
people use enormous quantities of bread crumbs to get a pudding-like
³standing pottage², but the recipe doesnıt call for that, and itıs
nasty, to boot. I suspect the cloves are intended to be left whole,
rather than ground, since powder of cloves is a known, standard, 14th
century ingredient which could have easily been specified if intended.
We used powdered cloves, to avoid expensive dental accidents in dim
feast halls. As for sugar, it was probably sprinkled lavishly on top
partly for the look, which probably means there was a bit less in total
than if it had been simply mixed in.
For eight servings:
2 quarts pitted morello cherries in juice (If jars are less than a
quart, add bottled or canned cherry juice to compensate)
1/2 - 3/4 cup unseasoned white bread crumbs, preferably fresh
1/4 - 1/2 cup sugar (granulated light brown is ideal, but white is O.K.)
1/2 cup red wine
3 Tbs butter
1/2 - 1 tsp powdered cloves
Salt
Puree the cherries in a food mill or processor. Put everything but the
butter, the cloves and the salt into a pot and bring to a boil, whipping
to break up any breadcrumb lumps. Add cloves to taste. Cut cold butter
into small pieces and drop them into the simmering liquid, one at a a
time, whipping constantly until each is melted and incorporated, before
adding the next (otherwise youıll have a layer of grease floating on
top). Salt to taste and serve.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:46:14 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Syllabub - does anyone have a period recipe?
Glenda Robinson wrote:
> There's a lovely recipe in Pleyn Delit - Strawberry Pudding. This can use
> frozen strawberries.
That would be the fresee recipe I spoke of, which I believe PD has as a
variant on syrosye, which they refer to as a cherry pudding. I don't
entirely buy the idea that this is supposed to be a chargeaunt or
stondyng dish, so I use fewer breadcrumbs than Hieatt, Butler and Jones
recommend, and serve it warm as a medium-thick pottage.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:24:01 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cherries
Pink Sunshine wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if cherries are period?
Yes, they are. Off the top of my head, and even before the morning
caffeine, I can think of recipes in medieval English, German, and
Italian sources, as well as references in the period Mediterranean
medical texts known collectively as Tacuina Sanitatis. The Romans ate
them too, if I remember correctly.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 06:34:01 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cherries
Pink Sunshine wrote:
> I'd really like some meat and cherry recipes.
>From BL MS Add. 46919 (He), published in "Curye On Inglysch" as _Diuersa
Cibaria_ .
"14. Scirresez. Milke of alemauns i(th)ikked wy(th) amydoun, chiseberien
igrounden wi(th)outen (th)e stones, a pertie of sucre so (th)at hit beo
wel isauored of cheseberien, vlehs gret, & cheseberien istreed abouen;
(th)e colour is red."
OR
~ 14. Cherries. Milk of almonds thickened with wheat starch, ground
pitted cherries, some sugar to bring out the flavor of the cherries,
flesh great (i.e. slices or chunks in serving size of roast or boiled
meat: maybe lamb or mutton or boiled fresh ham), & garnished with
cherries on top. The color is red.
Very rough quantities might be (I'm guessing here):
1 1/2 - 2 cups almond milk made from a pint of boiling water and 1/2 cup
ground, blanched almonds whizzed up in the blender and strained
1 1/2 Tbs wheat starch, dissolved in a little water or cherry juice
1 to 1 1/2 pounds cherries, weighed after pitting
3-4 Tbs sugar or to taste (sparingly!)
2 lbs hunk-o-meat, roast or boiled, cut in small medallion-sized slices
or cubed
optional red coloring agent of your choice: maybe red sandalwood if necessary
salt to taste
Puree about 3/4 of your cherries using a mortar, food mill, food
processor or blender. Watch out for pits if using a power tool to avoid
getting cherries on the ceiling. (Yes, I speak from experience.) Reserve
the rest of the cherries as a garnish.
Combine the pureed cherries with the wheat starch slurry and most of the
almond milk in a saucepan and bring to a boil, stirring frequently.
Simmer briefly until thickened. Skim off any foam that may arise. Adjust
the thickness by cooking it down a bit if too thin, or by thinning with
the last of the almond milk if too thick. You want the sauce to coat the
meat but not stand up on its own. Add sugar and salt to taste (I believe
in adding salt to almost everything -- just don't overdo it.)
If your meat is hot, arrange in a deep serving dish and pour the sauce
over. If cold, you can reheat the meat (especially if cubed) in the
sauce and pour it all in the serving dish. Garnish with the remaining
pitted cherries.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:36:10 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Mackerel
"Decker, Margaret" wrote:
>>I'm looking for period receipts using cherries, ...
I got a really wonderful chicken pie out of Platina that uses cherries...I've
had nothing but rave responses to it. The recipe? Here you go:
CRUSTA EX CICURIBUS
Another Crust with Tame Creatures
From De honesta voluptate, by Platina:
If you want to put pigeons and any other birds in a crust, first let them boil;
when they are almost cooked, take them out of the pot, then cut them into nice
pieces and fry them in a pan with a goodly amount of lard. Next put them in a
deep dish or an earthen pot that has been well greased, and where a crust has
been rolled out on the bottom. To this dish you may add plums and cherries or
sour fruit without going wrong. Then take verjuice and eight eggs, more or less
depending on the number of guests, if there are a few, with a little juice,
beaten with a spoon; to this add parsley, majoram and finely cut mint, which can
be blended after being cut up, and put this all near the fire, but far from the
flame. It must be a slow heat so that it does not boil over. All the while, it
should be stirred with a spoon until it sticks to the spoon because of its
thickness. Finally pour this sauce into the pastry crust and put it near the
fire and when it seems to have cooked enough, serve it to your guests. It is
very nourishing and slow to be digested. It has few harmful effects, checks the
bile and irritates the body.
Redaction by Minowara Kiritsubo
2 lb. Chicken
Pastry for a single crust
1 cup plums and/or cherries (if dried, soak in white wine until soft)
1/2 cup white wine
6 tsp. White wine vinegar
8 eggs
1 1/4 tsp. each of marjoram, mint and parsley
1/4 tsp. salt
1 pt. chicken stock
1/2 cup chicken stock
1. Boil chicken pieces in 1 pt. of stock until almost cooked. Bone the chicken
pieces and brown in a little olive oil.
2. Line a deep dish pie tin with pastry, then fill with chicken and fruit.
3. Pour the sauce over the pie. Bake at 350 degrees until browned on top.
Sauce:
1. Blend eggs, wine, vinegar and ? cup of the chicken broth together.
2. Add finely minced parsley, marjoram and mint.
3. Cook over a low heat, stirring constantly, until thickened so that it clings
to the spoon.
Notes:
1. I used a mixture of white wine vinegar cut with a little white wine to
approximate the verjuice that the original recipe calls for.
2. I used sour cherries for the fruit, which produced a good balance with the
flavor of the chicken.
Kiri
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:02:50 -0400
From: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu>
Subject: SC - RE:cherries
There is a recipe in Pleyn Delit for cherry pudding it is wonderful. I
don't remember where the original recipe came from but I can check when I
get home where the book is and possibly include a redaction. Although I am
sure many people on this list have already redacted the recipe I am
thinking of, so if people wish please post your version.
Angeline
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cherries
- --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> margaret at Health.State.OK.US writes:
> << Would also like to know if there are
> any period varieties still being grown in large enough numbers to show up at
> markets. Ras you seem to be very knowledgeable. >>
>
> Alas my knowledge in the cherry area is somewhat limited. :-( I am not aware
> of any actual cherry varieties that are being marketed today that may have
> been available to those living in the Middle Ages.
>
> As for recipes, Cherioun comes to mind. I think it
> is in Two-Fifteenth Century Cookery Books, IIRC.
From what I have seen so far, the Morello or Black
Cherry is the only cherry that has continued from
period until now. It is and was very essential in
German and Dutch cooking.
Huette
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:33:39 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Cherries and strawberries
> so what are those period ones like? Would they be more like
> the choke cherry? More sour?
There were many different type of cherries in period. At least three
different type are displayed in The Fruit Seller. The problem is the
cherries are often classified by the color of their juice and the tartness
or sweetness of their taste; two characteristics difficult to transmit
without direct experience. As an opinion, any modern cherry probably had a
counterpart in the Middle Ages and you should probably seek those types
which best fit the recipe.
> And what about strawberries. I haven't checked the
> florilegium yet and I absolutely must get to bed before 1 am
> today. The only food ref I have is Food in History and