ham-msg

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ham-msg – 1/24/11

Period ham. Modern sources. Recipes.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:09:15 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham

Christi Redeker (Murkial) wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if ham is period. I don't remember seeing an exact

> reference for it, so I figured I would check with the experts. Anyone?

Yep, ham's medieval. There's a recipe in Apicius for "Pig Newtons." You

take ham, cover it with a paste of figs and honey then cover it with a

pastry crust and bake. It's really good.

I think about any sort of salt or smoke cured meat is medieval. They

were pretty clever about figuring out ways to make meat last over winter

without making people sick.

Crystal of the Westermark

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:13:07 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham

> Yep, ham's medieval. There's a recipe in Apicius for "Pig Newtons." You

> take ham, cover it with a paste of figs and honey then cover it with a

> pastry crust and bake. It's really good.

> I think about any sort of salt or smoke cured meat is medieval. They

> were pretty clever about figuring out ways to make meat last over winter

> without making people sick.

Yes, ham is period, and more or less prehistoric, I suspect. Cato's "De

Re Rustica" (or is it "De Re Agricultura"? I always get Cato and

Columella mixed up) gives a recipe that Jane Grigson has declared almost

identical in its details to relatively modern recipes for York ham,

except for the final rubbing with vinegar and oil. I'm not aware of a

whole lot of medieval recipes for curing and smoking ham, but it clearly

was eaten, and there's really no big reason to assume it was mde

differently than Cato's version, with minor differences in the case

with, say, Spanish hams which appear to have been air dried, like

Prosciutto, after curing, and not smoked.

One thing I did want to point out is that the Apician recipe for ham

baked in dough is a bit different from the description above, and I

assume that the concept of Pig Newtons is an adaptation of the original

for a secondary or tertiary source. The Apician recipe, IIRC, calls for

a smoked ham, like a Smithfield type ham, to be soaked, scoured, etc.,

to desalinate it somewhat. It is then boiled with figs, drained,

skinned, smeared with honey, and wrapped in a dough made of flour and

olive oil. As far as I know from the recipe, the figs are not eaten in

the final dish, and the pastry is probably discarded too.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a sauce

for ham calling for a thickening of pastry crumbs. I'd have to check on

that, but it would make sense.

Why do I mention this? Not because I'm a rotter who enjoys pointing out

things like this, but rather because this is a fairly common research

foible that can cause trouble under certain circumstances. To quote

Herod Agrippa in "Claudius the God" (and probably spoken over a plate of

Apician ham) "Trust no one, little marmoset! Trust no one!" To which I

add, especially anyone claiming a recipe is Apician, without providing a

reasonable stab at chapter and verse, and especially don't trust Vehling

; ) !

But dang, Pig Newtons sound good, I have to say...

Adamantius (a bit of an Apician ham himself)

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:39:47 -0400From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>Subject: Re: SC - curing hamStefan li Rous wrote:> Thanks for this confirmation, Adamantius. But what is this "charcuterie"?> I assume this is some kind of ham or some kind of preserving but more details> would be useful.Close. Literally translated from French, it means "meat cookery", butgenerally means the preparation of pork products like ham, bacon,sausage of various kinds, liver pates, and just about any other product,fresh or preserved, made from pork. Ordinary raw meat is sold in theboucherie or butcher shop.

Please don't be shy about things like this, at least not on myaccount...the method for curing country hams and other charcuterie seemsnot to have changed much since the Roman Republic (except maybe for thesugar).Jane Grigson, in her book on charcuterie, draws a striking comparisonbetween the process outlined by Cato the Elder for curing and smokinghams, and the process used until quite recently for York hams.Adamantius

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:33:33 -0400

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Question - Recipes for the low budget

The thing is, many of these recipes can be cooked in small quantities. I've

just been going through Milham's Platina, and reading such recipes as VI

46, entitled "Ham"

"Stick a knife into the middle of a ham (which is called "from the foot."

as pleases Varro) and smell it. If it smells good, the ham will be good; if

bad, it should be thrown away. Cook a good ham in white wine or vinegar.

Some say as much water should be added, especially Glaucus who does not

drink wine; they are certainly wrong. It is more pleasant cooked in wine

alone, or vinegar, and it lasts longer. Ham should not be over-cooked, nor

should it be taken from its juice except when it has cooled."

This one could be easily tried with a slice of ham in a frying pan, or a

whole fresh ham, imo.

Phlip

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:44:30 -0400 (EDT)

From: Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net>

Subject: Re: SC - ham

Many people also soak the ham in several changes of water, before they

even start cooking it. Smithfields' are very salty. Also this ham tastes

best in very thin slices--no thicker than thin sliced bacon.

If you have some left over for modern purposes try:

1) Triple decker turkey and smithfield ham sandwich with

lettuce and tomato and mayo.

2) Using scrappy pieces and fat to make hamspread in the blendar

or food processor.

3) Making hambone soup with vegetables. Including lima beans

and potatoes as some of your vegetables is especially good.

4) Ham biscuits

For more medieval purposes, it would be good where spicy ham

or prosciutto type meats are used.

Sharon

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:28:58 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - ham

There is a recipe in Laud MS 553 for removing the saltiness from salted

meats. Oatmeal is bound in a cloth. The meat, oatmeal, & water are heated

on a very low flame for a long time, & then cooled. The process is

repeated as necessary.

BTW, I believe it was at the Daniel Boone homestead during restoration,

that a ham was discovered still hanging in the old smokehouse. I'm told it

was delicious.

Cindy/Sincgiefu

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:58:11 -0400

From: Marilyn Traber <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: SC - Apician Ham PERNAM

Well, folks, I made this several times running.

We got a great deal on pork shoulder, .49 american a pound

at the commissary on base. We bought 4, and 4 boxes of dried

caly figs.

THE HAM SHOULD BE BRAISED WITH A GOOD NUMBER OF FIGS AND

SOME THREE LAUREL LEAVES; THE SKIN IS THEN PULLED OFF AND

CUT INTO SQUARE PIECES; THESE ARE MACERATED WITH HONEY.

THEREUPON MAKE DOUGH CRUMBS OF FLOUR AND OIL. LAY THE DOUGH

OVER OR AROUND THE HAM STUD, STUD THE TOP WITH THE PIECES OF

SKIN SO THAT THEY WILL BE BAKED WITH THE DOUGH AND WHEN

DONE, RETIRE FROM THE OVEN AND SERVE.

attempt 1: Robs version

got out the pork, and figs. He cheated and used already pie

crusts. He put the pork, bay leaves and worchestershire

sauce in a stock pot, with water to cover and braised it in

the oven at 375-400 degrees fahr for about 1 1/2 hours,

until the meat thermometer read 160. He then pulled it out,

dumped the braising liquid and peeled off the skin. He cut

it into squares and soaked it in honey with a dash of

worchestershire sauce.

He wrapped the already pie crust around the trimmed and

dried off shoulder, and stuck the skin pieces back on top.

He put it back in the oven at 350 degrees fahr for about

half an hour. He went to check it out but when he opened the

oven to use the meat thermometer, the pie crust was not up

to the task and had buckled and slid off, and the surface

had started to brown. He decided that browning wasn't

desired, as the crust we figured was to keep the moisture in

and preserve the white color of the pork. We finished

roasting it, and it was very good, but a litle dry.

attempt 2:

got out the pork, figs, 3 bay leaves and the worchestershire

sauce[my garum!] and grabbed down a stock pot sized a bit

larger than the shoulder. popped in the figs, bay leaves,

about 1/4 c worchester sauce and water to cover, and covered

the pot. I popped it in the oven, set on 375-400 degrees

fahr. and watched an episode of I Claudius to get in the

mood. After the first episode, I poked it with a meat

thermometer and found it to be 150 degrees fahr. so I

decided to leave it in for another half an hour. After half

an hour, I got out olive oil and flour, and a dash of water

made a basic mix stiff enough to be handled and wrapped

around the shoulder.

I pulled the pot out, and fished out the shoulder, and

reserved it. I put the braising liquid in a pan and reduced

it to 1/4, and thickened it with a slurry of cold water and

spelt flour. Saved it and served it on the side. It needed

salt, pepper and another dash of worchesteshire sauce.

I pulled off the skin and flensed off some of the fat layer

that was left behind, and did a bit of judicious trimming of

bits to neaten things up while the squares of skin were

floating in a bowl of honey. I also scraped off the figgy

mush bits adhering in crevaces and dried it with paper

towels. On my cutting board, I had a layer of dough patted

out to about 1/2" thick, and about 2'x2'. I wrapped the

shoulder and sealed all the seams. I stuck the rather

sticky [and hot] pieces of pigskin to the top of the whole

mess. I put it into a shallow cake type pan with a roasting

rack in the bottom that has nifty handles to help you pull a

roast or bird out without getting burned or messy. I then

baked it at about 300 degrees fahr. for the half episode

left over, and almost all of the third one. I snuck the meat

thermometer into the beastie, which cracked the crust all to

heck, and it registered as done. We picked off all the crust

and popped it onto a platter and had refried mush with pine

nuts[vehling #299, sort of] and leeks and beets [#67] which

everybody considered a big success.

margali

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:19:11 -0400

From: "LHG, JRG" <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - Apecian Ham--Pernam

margali,

I have made the Pernam recipe in the past, and had very little trouble.

I think you have to look at 5 things:

1)Ham means HAM, in other words cured and smoked pork leg meat, not fresh

pork meat. The romans brought the "ham en croute" idea to britain, where it

survives to this day, so I think I'm dead-on here in suggesting you get

preserved ham, not "fresh" ham, for an Apecian recipe specifying ham.

2)Braise means to cook with a small amount of liquid. Boiled ham is one

thing and Braised ham another. One cooks with aromatic steam, and bottom

liquid and heat (braise), the other cooks with hot water (making the ham an

ineffective support for later baking, as the connective tissues have

disintegrated).

3)The figs' natural sugar gets a sort of caramelization thing going there

(be careful of scorching!), and the thick liquid is your sauce (I added

lemon juice rather than the garum you added---it needs something!).

4) Try a hot-water crust rather than a pie crust. I firmly believe that the

hot-water crust is a descendant of excessively thick pottage, and that's

why we cannot understand, modernly, how pie crust is supposed to stand on

it's own. When you think of it as a pottage extension you should not have

too much trouble dumping in the hot liquid and melted fat to the flour.

Let it cool slightly before working and it will react like

playdough.....you can get creative!

5) This dish is supposed to resemble a baked ham when finished, at least

somewhat. Think of it as roman double-illusion food: "Oh, look, it's ham!

Noooo, wait, there's a crust, so it must be something else.......No, wait,

It's a Ham in fig sauce!" Those romans had no sense of comedy!

Those are my observations of the dish. I'm sorry I don't have the redaction

I did so very long ago. I remember it was well received, however.

Aoife

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:14:46 -0400

From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Apecian Ham--Pernam

Hullo, the list!

With regard to Margali and her Apician Pernam recipe, I've been meaning to

ask, and this was really the first opportunity: whose translation is this? It

looks rather different from the Flower and Rosenbaum version I have here, but

based even on simply looking at it in Latin I have a few questons...

Lady Aoife Finn wrote:

> 1)Ham means HAM, in other words cured and smoked pork leg meat, not fresh

> pork meat. The romans brought the "ham en croute" idea to britain, where it

> survives to this day, so I think I'm dead-on here in suggesting you get

> preserved ham, not "fresh" ham, for an Apecian recipe specifying ham.]

This appears to be the case; "poples" seems to refer to the anatomical

portion, and presumably a fresh pork leg, while "pernam" seems to refer to

cured ham. "Petaso" seems to be the shoulder, but it's unclear to me whether

fresh or cured is indicated.

> 2)Braise means to cook with a small amount of liquid. Boiled ham is one

> thing and Braised ham another. One cooks with aromatic steam, and bottom

> liquid and heat (braise), the other cooks with hot water (making the ham an

> ineffective support for later baking, as the connective tissues have

> disintegrated).

Yes, but the original Latin distinctly calls for boiling, which, while not

necessarily requiring a full rolling boil throughout the cooking process,

would indicate to me that it is covered by the water in which it is cooked.

I'd simmer this in water to cover, which would probably help with the salt, too.

> 3)The figs' natural sugar gets a sort of caramelization thing going there

> (be careful of scorching!), and the thick liquid is your sauce (I added

> lemon juice rather than the garum you added---it needs something!).

I'm sure there are all sorts of ways this dish can be improved upon, but I

wouldn't want to suggest that if I were starting out with a Smithfield ham,

Phlip would hurt me. It's my understanding that the figs don't appear in the

final dish. At least no further reference is made to them in the recipe, and

the pastry is stated to be wrapped around the ham. They may help absorb some

of the salt, as a potato or the little bag of meal some of the medieval

sources speak of might. There may even be either an enzyme in figs that might

function as a tenderizer of some kind, or perhaps the sweetness might help

counteract the strong flavor of a cured ham. It's sometimes hard to say why

things are done in a particular way. Maybe the figs are eaten separately.

> 4) Try a hot-water crust rather than a pie crust. I firmly believe that the

> hot-water crust is a descendant of excessively thick pottage, and that's

> why we cannot understand, modernly, how pie crust is supposed to stand on

> it's own. When you think of it as a pottage extension you should not have

> too much trouble dumping in the hot liquid and melted fat to the flour.

> Let it cool slightly before working and it will react like

> playdough.....you can get creative!

All this sounds like excellent advice, which may simply mean many of us are

smarter than Apicius. He advises us to make a pastry from flour and oil and to

cover the ham with it, after first removing the ham's skin, scoring the ham,

and filling the incisions with honey. I've made this dish too, according to

the Apician instructions, and found a dough made only from oil and flour to

have a rather unexpectedly odd texture: kinda like shortbread run amok, with

absolutely no gluten development. One possibiity is that freshly pressed olive

oil might have had a certain built-in water content, which would make this

more like a recognizable pastry dough.

> 5) This dish is supposed to resemble a baked ham when finished, at least

> somewhat. Think of it as roman double-illusion food: "Oh, look, it's ham!

> Noooo, wait, there's a crust, so it must be something else.......No, wait,

> It's a Ham in fig sauce!" Those romans had no sense of comedy!

Terence? Plautus? For that matter, Caesar? No sense of comedy? Perhaps you

mean the good people of Rome, New York?

Now, although I'm a little curious as to how some of these decisions were made

(I suspect we've been Vehlinged again!), please understand that I will be

utterly shameless about inviting myself to the dinner tables of either of

these two ladies, at the earliest opportunity...

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:51:25 EDT

From: Mordonna22 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Apecian Ham--Pernam

liontamr at ptd.net writes:

> 1)Ham means HAM, in other words cured and smoked pork leg meat, not fresh

> pork meat. The romans brought the "ham en croute" idea to britain, where it

> survives to this day, so I think I'm dead-on here in suggesting you get

> preserved ham, not "fresh" ham, for an Apecian recipe specifying ham.

Books ISBN: 0-345-32298-3

"ham(1) (ham), n. 1. a cut of meat from a hog's heavy-muscled rear part

between hip and hock, usually cured. 2. that part of a hog's hind leg. 3.

the part of the leg back of the knee. 4. often hams, the back of the thigh,

or the thigh and the buttocks together."

Mordonna DuBois

Haven of Warriors

Atenveldt

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:28:09 EDT

From: Mordonna22 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Apple cider

phlip at bright.net writes:

> I have just gotten access to an unlimited supply of unpasteurized, no

> preservative added, apple cider.

> Any suggestions?

Try Ras's recipe for baked ham as redacted by me:

1 ham

Apple cider

1 cloved onion

2 cinnamon sticks

1 tsp peppercorns

Place ham in large covered baking pan or dish, cover with apple cider, add the

cloved onion and spices. Bake at 200 degrees F overnight.

Wonderful! !

Mordonna DuBois

Haven of Warriors

Atenveldt

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:45:55 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Cooking salted ham

KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil writes:

<< First off, I have what we call a country ham sitting in the larder begging

to be used. >>

Rinse. Cover with water. Simmer for about 1 to 1 1/2 hours. You can then

carefully remove it and brown it in the oven but it is just as tasty boiled.

This would be the closest to a period way of fixing it and instructions can

be found in any copy of 'The Boston School of Cookery' or Amish/Pennsylvania

Dutch cookbook as well as various period manuscripts. This was the most

popular way to cook salted hams for centuries up until the water injected

travesties were introduced in the modern era. The addition of 3 or 4 cloves

stuck in a whole onion, a 2 inch piece of cinnamon (cassia) stick and a 8 to

10 black peppercorns will improve the end product remarkably. Enjoy. :-)

Ras

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:13:01 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - wild boar

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Phlip commented:

> >I'd use pretty much the same spices you'd use for any fresh pork. Keep in

> >mind that if the boar is mature and hasn't been castrated, it's going to

> >taste a lot stronger than regular fresh ham- I'd likely soak it in salt

> >water overnight.

> Oops. I forgot that this pork leg was ham. Or does "ham" only refer to

> the pig leg after it has been smoked, salted or otherwise cured?

It can be used to refer to fresh or cured leg and buttock, if you will,

and not always necessarily in connection with pork (there are bear and

boar and veni --ahem-- deer hams). You'll note, though, that Phlip said

"regular fresh ham", which presumably refers to uncured leg of domestic pork.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:47:51 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Ham

troy at asan.com writes:

<< since ham is always pork >>

Not true.

Ham (noun) [Hebrew] : a son of Noah held to be the progenitor of the

Egyptians, Nubians, and Canaanites

ham [1] (noun) [Middle English hamme, from Old English hamm; akin to Old High

German hamma ham, Greek kneme shinbone, Old Irish cnaim bone] First appeared

before 12th Century

1 a : the hollow of the knee

b : a buttock with its associated thigh -- usu. used in pl.

2 : a cut of meat consisting of a thigh; especially : one from a hog

3 [short for hamfatter, from "The Ham-fat Man," minstrel song] a : a showy

performer; especially : an actor performing in an exaggerated theatrical style

b : a licensed operator of an amateur radio station

4 : a cushion used esp. by tailors for pressing curved areas of garments

As you can see, according to Merriam-Webster, a ham is many things and it's

use as a term for a type of thigh meat is not restricted to pork but is used

in particular to refer to that meat.

Ras

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:24:12 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Margali butchers Rudolph the red nose reindeer

Tollhase1 at aol.com wrote:

> of species. Is not Prosciutto (Ps, spell check wants to turn Prosciutto into

> Prostitute) cooked by its processing as a salted/smoked meat unlike Steak

> tartar which only cuts up the meat Vs changing its nature by the addition of

> salt and other herbs?

Prosciutto isn't really cooked, because it's not subjected to heat or

the enzymes or pH change that would denature its proteins. It is firmer

than raw meat because it's had a lot of its water removed. Steak tartar

is raw, but also at its full moisture content. we hope.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:14:21 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham

Mordonna22 at aol.com wrote:

> So, if I just go into some Yankee butcher shop and ask for ham, which would I

> be most likely to get? Smoked, Salted, or Sugared?

Yes.

Probably all of the above simultaneously. You don't see too many

unsmoked hams here, although around half are without sugar, I'd guess.

If you wanted a salted-only, green kind of ham, you'd probably have to

specify Prosciutto or Serrano ham, and there are probably French and

German equivalents whose names escape me at the moment.

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:06:44 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Roasting meats

kerric at pobox.alaska.net writes:

<< Has anyone roasted meats using the boil first, roast second method? >>

I always do my whole hams this way. Just plopping a whole preserved ham, salt

and all into an oven before boiling is a very recent innovation which I

suspect came about through the use of canned hams.

First, I put it in water over night. Drain. Put it in a large kettle. Cover

with water (usually adding 9 peppercorns, a bay leaf, 1/2 tsp. caraway seed

and an onion with 3 whole cloves stuck in it). I boil it for about 45 minutes

to an hour (being careful to not let it get overdone and start to fall

apart). Drain. Discard boiling water or add a cabbage head, quartered to it

and cook until cabbage is tender.

Put ham in a roaster. Dump a quart or so of apple cider over it. Sprinkle

with a little brown sugar. Add a couple of whole carrots and a stalk of

celery if you wish. Roast until done basting occasionally.

I posted a more thorough description sometime ago. Perhaps someone has saved

it. This is what I always do with whole hams and they are decadently

delicious and tender. :-)

Ras

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:09:10 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Roasting meats

kerric at pobox.alaska.net writes:

<< If so, I'd

like to know how long boiled and then how long roasted and at what

temperature. >>

Ideally? 225 deg F, covered, from midnight until the next morning. :-)

Otherwise 350 until done. The time varies according to the size of the ham.

Ras

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:47:41 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Two Questions and Advice

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> I am not saying everyone has forgotten, just that presoaking and parboiling

> before roasting is not done as often as it used to be. My observation was not

> meant to mean that it is not done in the 21st century but merely that it is

> unusual to hear of it being done.

Part of this may be due to the fact that meats are being processed with

less salt, since refrigeration is sort of assumed, and that some

Virginia hams, and others which used to require soaking, scouring, and

parboiling, are now being sold fully cooked, so all that is really

needed is reheating in many cases.

The fact is, though, that if not soaked and parboiled properly, the

older-style hams are almost impossibly salty for any kind of serious

eating (i.e. except in very small amounts with other foods), and unless

properly cooked, have a lot of rather tough connective tissue that leads

to waste of a rather expensive product.

And besides, how are you supposed to make pea soup?

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:45:51 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham and a suggestion for Ras at the end

Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:

> I'm really intrigued with this topic. Now, you gotta understand that I grew

> up in a strictly kosher home and live in a modified kosher home myself... so

> I have no clue when it comes to pig.

Don't worry, this will all come in handy when you get hold of a fennlaar

(Par? Nanna? Spelling?). Think mutton ham.

> Now, I want to ask some questions:

> << (snip) and that some Virginia hams, and others which used to require

> soaking, scouring, and parboiling, ...>>

> How do you scour a ham and what are you trying to get rid of (dirt?) The

> only thing that comes to mind is a Brillo pad. And why would you par-boil a

> ham if you were going to cook it in a dish anyway? (In Judaism, one is

> supposed to par - broil livers before use and then you can cook them in any

> manner you wish. This is done to get rid of the blood) Is there any

> connection like that in par boiling a ham? (Probly not...)

Scouring a ham is usually done with a stiff brush, and it removes dirt,

some excess salt, and opens pores in the skin of the ham to facilitate

salt transport for further soaking and parboiling.

> >>>>The fact is, though, that if not soaked and parboiled properly, the

> older-style hams are almost impossibly salty for any kind of serious eating>>>

> So in the middle ages were people just used to very salty ham or did they eat

> it only sparingly too.

The recipes would seem to suggest that, for the most part, eating a

whole ham all at once, was somewhat rare in most of Europe. There are,

however, recipes that speak of whole chunks of roast or boiled meat,

with instructions if the meat be salt, so perhaps some of these

hunks-o'-fleisch were hams.

> AND do you do this salt thing to all hams or just

> the bits that you are going to eat later? Do / did people eat freshly killed

> pig. AND, while we are on the subject what is the difference between pork

> and ham? (It's all treif to me! :-) )

Yes, people do, and did, eat freshly killed pigs. A typical farmer's

annual agenda (and I should let Mordonna or Ras talk about this, I'm the

UUY) might include several hogs being slaughtered and processed at once,

with hams, other types of bacon, sausages and puddings being made in

succesion, with hard-to-preserve-cuts like various internal organs being

eaten quickly.

The difference between pork and ham is different today from the

difference in period. Today, ham is usually, but not automatically, the

cured hind leg of the hog, but it can be fresh, too. Bacon is also

usually cured, but the fresh cuts such as belly and loin, that are

sometimes made into bacon, are available fresh.

Once upon a time, you had fresh and salted (and sometimes, in addition

to salted, smoked) pig. Salted (and sometimes y & w, um, I mean smoked)

pig sides (basically the split animal, possibly sans head, was known as

bacon. You had chines of bacon, from the loin near the spine, jambons or

gammons of bacon, taken from the leg, i.e. ham, belly bacon, etc. Some

recipes, therefore, in period, which speak of eating such-and-such with

bacon, aren't specifically referring (at least not always) to the

stripey stuff you see in the supermarket.

> >>>> and unless properly cooked, have a lot of rather tough connective tissue

> uh,,,, yuck!? All this soaking and cooking softens up the connective tissue??

> (I ask tentitively.) My bubbie (grandma) used to buy cheap cuts of meat

> (well we were poor) She used to cook them on the stove, kind of stewing them.

> For hours ao a low heat. When they were done, the meat would melt in your

> mouth. (Oh boy do I miss her now... anyway...) is this the same type of

> cooking you would do to a connective tissue ham?

Indeed it is. Your bubbie was no fool. Connective tissue isn't

inherently a bad thing, for some cuts of eat it's downright essential

for moistness and flavor. Let's see, now, what would be a good

illustration. Okay, let's try this... you know how, when something like

flanken, or short ribs, or maybe brisket, can be really tough when not

cooked enough, but then they suddenly reach a point where they melt in

the mouth? Well, what's happpening is that collagen, part of the

connective tissue known collectively to meat eaters as "gristle" (along

with less fun things like elastin), is breaking down into gelatin, which

does good things like thickening, enriching, and flavoring gravies, and

moistening and lubricating the meat while you chew it. The connective

tissue in hams is generally akin to the connective tissue in lamb

shanks. Both are tender and yummy when properly cooked.

> ALSO, Those huge, net

> wrapped hams I see in the supermarket now for alot of money... are they full

> of connective tissue and salty?

> (Not for the money they are asking for them... I hope)

Salt varies according to the process used, but generally the net-wrapped

hams aren't the kind of hams, such as Smithfield, that require all that

much home processing. They may require baking and/or boiling, but many

are fully cooked. There are usually instructions, I think. The

connective tissue is a function of the cut of meat. The animal was

shockingly inconsiderate when considering its culinary future, so it had

a strange idea that it might use that connective tissue for walking. As

I say, though, there are ways around that.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:38:41 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham and a suggestion for Ras at the end

Adamantius wrote:

>Don't worry, this will all come in handy when you get hold of a fennlaar

>(Par? Nanna? Spelling?). Think mutton ham.

FenalÂr (fenalaar), that's the Norwegian version. Or Icelandic hangikjˆt -those lamb or mutton legs we smoked back on the farm would have a thincovering of soot after hanging for months high above the sheepdung fire and had to be brushed thoroughly. But they were not very salty and didn't need soaking.

Nanna

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:13:03 -0500

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Ham and a suggestion for Ras at the end

Cousin Phillipa skrev:

>> How do you scour a ham and what are you trying to get rid of (dirt?) The

>> only thing that comes to mind is a Brillo pad. And why would you par-boil a

>> ham if you were going to cook it in a dish anyway? (In Judaism, one is

>> supposed to par - broil livers before use and then you can cook them in any

>> manner you wish. This is done to get rid of the blood) Is there any

>> connection like that in par boiling a ham? (Probly not...)

And Adamantius replied:

>Scouring a ham is usually done with a stiff brush, and it removes dirt,

>some excess salt, and opens pores in the skin of the ham to facilitate

>salt transport for further soaking and parboiling.

Let me add here, too, dear cousin, that some hams, like my beloved

Smithfield, are aged so long that they'll grow mold on them, just as an aged

cheese will. This mold is not particularly harmful, but it isn't very tasty,

so removing it is a good idea.

A Smithfield ham is supposed to be salted well, then smoked over a fire of

corn cobs, then aged for a year before use. It is also only allowed to be

called a Smithfield if it is made in Smithfield, Virginia- any ham like it

must use the term "Smithfield-like" or just "Virginia" ham. The last time I

bought one, in Virginia, it was about $70- this is actually a pretty

reasonable price for an excellent piece of meat.

Traditionally, what you do with them, is cut off pieces as you need them,

and clean and parboil the pieces as necessary, while storing the rest of the

ham in a cool, dark, dry pantry, not a refrigerator. There is nothing you

can do to hurt a properly cured Smithfield or Smithfield-style ham, short of

dropping a nuclear bomb on one, or letting it get, and stay, wet. The

coolness and the darkness simply help them retain their wonderful flavor.

I've told the story before, but some of you may not have heard it, so I'll

repeat it. Several years ago, I bought a Smithfield ham, and had it stored

hanging from a hook in the bedroom, that being my best option for a cool,

dark, dry place. A couple years later I went to get it to take to Pennsic,

and I couldn't find it, so I asked my ex where it was. He said, "Oh, it was

getting old, so it wasn't any good so I threw it out." You may now know why

he's my ex.

Phlip

Philippa Farrour

Caer Frig

Southeastern Ohio

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:48:04 MST

From: Tzviatko Goranov <tzviatko at mail.mtt.govrn.bg>

Subject: Prosciutto making

To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>

Hello Stefan,

Thank you for forwarding my message to a mail list. Meanwhile I found a very

useful site (http://www.baygourmet.com/pig.html) which doesn't describe in

detail the process of prosciutto making, but gives information on curing and

air drying which are its two main elements. In addition the site contains

links to other useful web pages.

Tzviatko

From: grizly at mindspring.com

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:52:20 -0400

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question of Italian meats

They aren't exactly substitutes as pancetta is a dry cured belly product re=

lated to American bacon (distant), but is not at all smoked. Prosciutto is=

a hung dried ham that is only salt cured, if memory serves, and is a produ=

ct originally of Parma. So, they are both pork, but one is belly and the =

other is ham. I suspect you will want to use less of the prosciutto as it =

is a good bit stronger, and add a little fat from another source to enrich =

it if so desired. A closer substitute would be plain, raw belly if you hav=

e a good market nearby. Hard spot to be in with no pancetta to buy . . .

pacem et bonum

niccolo difrancesco

(laridum dominari)

>>>>>>

I'm working on precook for Egils this weekend (it looks like I'll be

feeding 12! Ack!) and I have a question. Two of the recipes I'm using

are from _The Medieval Kitchen_ and call for pancetta. The deli at

Safeway didn't have any and I'm not minded to go running all over town-

I don't have time or energy and I have to just get these done. So I got

som prosciuttio instead. Will this work? Anything I should know about

substituting?

'Lainie

<<<<<<

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 00:01:22 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question of Italian meats

"Laura C. Minnick" wrote:

> I'm working on precook for Egils this weekend (it looks like I'll be

> feeding 12! Ack!) and I have a question. Two of the recipes I'm using

> are from _The Medieval Kitchen_ and call for pancetta. The deli at

> Safeway didn't have any and I'm not minded to go running all over town-

> I don't have time or energy and I have to just get these done. So I got

> som prosciuttio instead. Will this work? Anything I should know about

> substituting?

Pancetta is a bit like the fattier side of the slice of prosciutto; it's

cured pretty much as prosciutto is, but made from side or belly meat, so

it looks like a rolled pinwheel of streaky bacon. I believe it is also

sometimes cooked with the rind on, so it contributes a gelatinous aspect

to sauces and such in addition to a salt-cured tang.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT)

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question of Italian meats

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Proscuitto should be a good substitute for pancetta.

At least, it's a better substitute than modern bacon,

which has a totally different flavor and texture than

pancetta. If possible, though, you could ask your

butcher to cut you a slab of raw, uncured/unsmoked

bacon, and that would be an even better sub than the

proscuitto. As far as the actual cooking is

concerned, the proscuitto will tend to come out a lot

drier than the pancetta, since there is not nearly as

much fat in it. I would suggest layering with manteca

under the proscuitto, but that's just me...

Balthazar of Blackmoor

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:26:32 -0700

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Subverting Romans was Re: [Sca-cooks] what is your project?

Here's one suitable for subversion, one of my favorites from Apicius [Vehling

translation]. I served this one for the court luncheon at the coronation of

King Guy I of Caid, about 11 years ago, nicknamed "Pigs 'n' Figs".

Book VII, Chapter IX

PERNAM

"The ham should be braised with a good number of figs and some three laurel

leaves; the skin is then pulled off and cut into square pieces; these are

macerated with honey. Thereupon make dough crumbs with flour and oil. Lay the

dough over or around the ham, stud the top with pieces of the skin so that they

will be baked with the dough and when done, retire from the oven and serve."

I would use good pork shoulder in bite-sized pieces and good small figs in a

proportion of 2:1 or 3:1 since the pork will cook down more than the figs

will. Laurel Leaves are also known as Bay Leaves of course. Braise in honey

to taste and a little water, the figs will soften first so take them out while

they still have some cohesion, then cook the rest until the pork is actually

done. cover with broken-up pie dough in a sort of streusel crumb way, and bake

until browned.

The fast cheater way is to procure slices of Honey-Baked Ham, chop them up

including the honey ham-candy rinds, put it into a pie shell, etc. as before.

Selene

Altavia, Caid

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:15:36 +0200

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mainz Ham

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Am Samstag, 30. Juli 2005 17:04 schrieb Sam Wallace:

> I am looking for a source or recipe for Mainz ham. All I have so far is

> that it is ham that has been soaked in wine lees (or brandy, if I remember

> right) before curing. I have a couple of mentions in late period recipes,

> but have not been able to find more,

> Guillaume des Pyrenees

The only reference I found is the Larousse Gastronomique:

"Mainz ham is brined, desalted, soaked in brandy or wine lees and

smoked for a long period"

But the matter is sufficiently mysterious for a regional paper to devote an

article to the search for the exact recipe. Apparently, the Mainz butchers'

guildmaster doesn't know himself.

http://213.187.75.204/ressorts/freizeit/essen_und_trinken/

marktfuehrer/?sid=d2a40f9b7045af131e42cad0bf3d650b&cnt=684256

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:30:53 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Wine Lees was: Mainz Ham

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:05 PM, Radei Drchevich wrote:

> Please. What is wine lees??

> radei

The dregs or sediment. Basically, when you ferment the wine, you

convert sugar, which is dense, to alcohol, CO2, and various other

goodies, but since much of the CO2 escapes, you're left with a less

dense and viscous liquid. It's thinner. So, all sorts of suspended

proteins and impurities fall out of it like rain, and land on the

bottom of the container. To clarify it, the best and least intrusive

way is to let gravity do that work, then rack the wine off of the

dregs, leaving them, and a little of the liquid part, behind. That

sludge evidently has some valuable "industrial" uses, like for

pickling hams, for example.

I vaguely remember some reference to the Romans pickling stuff in

wine lees.

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:55:51 -0500

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pork leg shank?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Terri Morgan wrote:

> I just learned that the HUGE pork leg shank (I think that's what it is -

> it's not labelled) that was donated for our upcoming event is probably not

> cured. I've never cooked an uncured pork shank, especially not one bigger

> than a 25lb turkey. Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions? I know it

> should probably be roasted and reach 170 degrees but beyond that (and I

> don't actually have an idea of roasting temp. 325?) I'm at a loss. I'm

> tempted to let it thaw and then hack it into smaller and more

> manageable pieces.

> Hrothny the Perplexed

> That is one BIG leg o'pig!

Actually, what you have is a wonderful thing...a fresh ham. Yup...it's

called a ham even if it's not cured. You would cook it just as you

would cook any other roast...325 sounds about right. So far as

seasonings are concerned, granny smith apples are good, as are any other

standard pork seasonings.

Kiri

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:10:07 +1300

From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pork leg shank?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Terri Morgan wrote:

> I just learned that the HUGE pork leg shank (I think that's what it is -

> it's not labelled) that was donated for our upcoming event is probably not

> cured. I've never cooked an uncured pork shank, especially not one bigger

> than a 25lb turkey. Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions?

Yum! OK, a simple method is:

Score the skin well, rub the shank with salt and sprinkle it with pepper

and mace, and put it in a roasting pan. Roast at 450F for fifteen

minutes, then turn the oven down to 325 and continue roasting 'til done,

basting occasionally. Serve on a plate. (actually, it's especially

good with cameline sauce or freshly-made sauerkraut).

Adele de Maisieres

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:22:29 -0500

From: "Carol Smith" <Eskesmith at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pork leg shank?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Apples, prunes, and onions combined are delicious with pork. Modern

Scandinavian.

Brekke

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:26:25 -0800

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Pork leg shank?

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

This is the stuff of huge barbeques. Low and slow for hours and hours will

give you lots of collagen melting, and really rich tasting meat. Or, the

temp you suggest could be just fine for oven roasting. I'd consider

researching if 300F would be safe . . . low and slow.

At 170F internal temperature, though, it will be close to shoe leather. Get

some pork cooking temps . . . what you are saying will do for turkey, but

probably way overkill for a fresh ham. Remember that this huge "heat sink"

will continue to cook for a while after you remove from heat. Take off a

bit before final target temperature to prevent overcooking. Much more of a

challenge in larger hunks/cuts.

Seasoning . . .I am partial to more traditional Mediterranean spicing with

salt, black pepper, oregano and garlic. Consider brining this piece of

beast before you roast it. Give you some deeper seasoning, and more

cushion for moist end product.

niccolo difrancesco

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:35:57 -0500

From: "RUTH EARLAND" <rtannahill at verizon.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pork shank

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

You've got a fresh ham.

Other posters are right about "low and slow," but cooking at temperatures

below 325 is not recommended by the USDA. I'm not sure what they have

to say about smokers.

This link

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art15883.asp

recommends 325 for 18 to 20 minutes per pound, but I'd go with 20-22.

Another thing you might consider is boiling it. Get water or a wine/water

mix up to a rolling boil add the pork, bring it back to a simmer, and let it

go until cooked. You can finish it in the oven at a very high temperature

for a little while to crisp the skin.

Fresh ham has a nasty habit of drying out. You can mitigate this by brining

it first. Use 3 cups kosher salt per gallon. I would recommend brining for 2

days. Boiling will also keep it from drying out if you go that route.

Berelinde

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:41:26 -0500

From: "RUTH EARLAND" <rtannahill at verizon.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pork shank 2

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

These days, they're saying pork is safe to eat at an internal temperature of

140, but that's very pink, unappetizing, and goes against everything we've

been trained is right about pork since childhood.

Cooking it to an internal temperature of 160 is much more pleasing. Take it

out of the oven when the temperature is 155 and let it stand until the

temperature hits 160.

Berelinde

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:05:40 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pork shank 2

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Jan 17, 2006, at 6:41 AM, RUTH EARLAND wrote:

> These days, they're saying pork is safe to eat at an internal

> temperature of 140, but that's very pink, unappetizing, and goes

> against everything we've been trained is right about pork since

> childhood.

What we've been trained is right for pork since childhood is based

upon the imperative to avoid trichinosis. That's all she wrote. This

is so much the case that there are people who become alarmed if the

cooked pork displays even a sign of juice, and why, out of all the

meats we commonly eat, it is [marginally] second only to turkey in

the variety of sauces traditionally associated with it. They tend to

be necessary. Now, I agree that rare pork is a little alarming (and

it remains rare even after it's been brought to an internal

temperature of 140), but if you bring it to 140 in the center, and

it's a decent-sized cut, by the time you actually serve it, the

internal heat will have distributed to the point where it reaches the

medium to medium-well stage by the time you're ready to serve it: it

certainly won't be very pink, nor confused with a rare steak.

> Cooking it to an internal temperature of 160 is much more

> pleasing. Take it out of the oven when the temperature is 155 and

> let it stand until the temperature hits 160.

A fresh ham of the kind of weight we've been talking about will go

significantly higher than 160; more like 170 in about 15 minutes. Of

course, a fresh ham also has a lot more fat and connective tissue

than, say, a loin, so cooking it to 160 is probably a good idea for

tenderness. I'd just be concerned about using that as a hard-and-fast

rule for all pork.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 05:44:40 -0800 (PST)

From: Honour Horne-Jaruk <jarukcomp at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 32, Issue 49

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

>> From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net>

> Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Pork leg shank?

> I just learned that the HUGE pork leg shank (I think that's what it is -

> it's not labeled) that was donated for our upcoming event is probably not

> cured. Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions? I know it

> should probably be roasted and reach 170 degrees but beyond that (and I

> don't actually have an idea of roasting temp. 325?)

> Hrothny the Perplexed

Respected friend:

It is perfectly safe to cook pork at 275 degrees, and

for a big piece like this I heartily recommend it. The

lower temperature will, of course, mean a longer

cooking time- on average, about 1/3 longer than at 350

degrees- but you won't believe how much better your

result will be; as much as 1/3 less shrinkage, no

drying out, more even cooking, and a plumper,'prettier' roast.

I always used powdered Grains of Paradise with roast

pork- even mundanely. It retains the juices in pork

and reduces shrinking and drying as nothing else can,

has a great peppery taste that's not too obtrusive,

and is a classic meat spice in our period. It works

either plain or as part of a good Poudre' Forte.

Please consider roasting it whole. One of the things

we don't do that they almost always did was to have

lovely large hunks of meat carved on a table in the

middle of the hall, in front of the High table. (So

that the highest ranking people could say "That bit

right there"? Hmm...) It would be great theater, which

I consider very nearly equal to the flavor of the food

in making or breaking a feast. In fact, In my

experience, really good medieval ambiance, including

such things as servers in livery and pages with

washing-bowls, can replace expensive ingredients in a

feast with not one person the wiser. A few people

remember good flavors a year later. _Everybody_

remembers good theater.

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-

(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.

Alisond de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:10:03 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pork shank 2

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> RUTH EARLAND <rtannahill at verizon.net> wrote:

>> Take it

>> out of the oven when the temperature is 155 and let it stand until the

>> temperature hits 160.

> And what do you do when it hits 160 and is still rising? Drop it

> in icewater?

> Mordonna

I'd think slicing and serving it would be the thing to do in that

case -- that tends to stop the tide of the most egregious carry-over

cooking. But ideally, with a little experience, you can judge how

much it'll carry over based upon weight and other variables.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:33:42 -0500

From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] About that pig leg...

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Well. I soaked the pork leg in brine (it was very odd to use "kosher

salt" on a pork cut, let me tell you) for 5 days rather than 3 thanks to an

event weekend getting in the way and then prepared to cook it for the

recommended 16 or so hours at 225F. I popped it in the oven at midnight -

this was good and bad. Good because that way I thought I would be awake and

alert when it reached an internal temp of 155 and bad because it didn't need

to cook for *nearly* as long as we thought and it's very strange to be woke

up by the sound of a thermometer alarm buzzing against the oven. Perhaps

because I was so sleepy that I didn't score the flesh so it may have acted

as a sealant, the whole 26.5lb thing was done by 4:30am. I let it cool

completely and then we proceeded to slice. I should say, my husband sliced.

I watched while he wrestled. There was a lot more fat on it than I had

expected but we got at least 14 pounds of meat, maybe more, and it was

succulent, oh yes... :)

The meat nearest the bone in the inside of the "hip" of the cut was still

far more red than I was comfortable with but I have saved the drippings and

on the day of the event I'll heat up all the slices in a sealed pan with the

drippings poured back on to keep them moist. That should take care of any

fears about it being under done. All the rest of the meat was - ham-like

rather than pork-like, if that makes sense.

Thank you, everyone, for your advice and support. The cooler worked

wonderfully to brine the meat and cleaned up like a champ. I learned that

the pork leg does not need to be covered, nor does one necessarily need to

score the outside, either. And I can see, by the amount of fat on it, why

Smithfield Hams decided to forgo selling it... must have been a very

pampered pig in its day.

in happy relief,

Hrothny

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:25:38 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mail Order ham? (OOP)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:11 PM, chawkswrth at aol.com wrote:

<<< I would like to send a ham to family for Easter, but I am stymied.

You have no idea what you get when you google "ham". I don't need an out-of-work actor.

By any chance, has someone had any experience with a decent, tasty

and reliable mail-order company?

Helen >>>

Burger's Smokehouse is pretty good... they're based in Missouri, I

believe, and produce both city and country hams, fully cooked and

sliced, or raw...

http://www.smokehouse.com

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:38:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mail Order ham? (OOP)

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< has someone had any experience with a decent, tasty and

reliable mail-order company [selling hams]?

Helen >>>

I use Cusack Meats in Oklahoma City http://www.cusackmeats.com/catalog/ for

gift boxes of steak. Those are top quality, as are the lamb and pork chops

I got for myself. I've been using them for about 10 years and never had a

complaint.

I haven't done business with these two, but if you are into Smithfield hams,

you might also check out:

The Smithfield Collection

http://www.smithfieldcollection.com/category/3?gclid=CLLSoZeR4JkCFRBbagodOl90VA

Smithfield Hams http://www.smithfieldhams.com/

Bear

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 22:10:48 -0400

From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mail Order ham? (OOP)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

"Burger's Smokehouse is pretty good... they're based in Missouri, I

believe, and produce both city and country hams, fully cooked and

sliced, or raw...

http://www.smokehouse.com

Adamantius"

I happen to very much enjoy ham, and am familiar with them.

Adamantius' source is good- he sent me one. It was particularly nice

for me, because it was packaged in a couple slices apiece in cryo

paks, taken from obvious slices right on down the ham. Very tasty, and

less to deal with than the Smithfield ham. Not as salty, however, and

requires refrigeration.

Smithfield hams are excellent- I've never had better, however, I've

never ordered one by mail, either. Last one I got, Rob and Margali

gave me, and it lasted for a couple years (again, just me eating it).

However, while I know enough to work with it, please be careful who you

send one to. When properly aged, they get a layer of mold on the

outside, and those that don't know to just scrub it off, soak the ham,

and then use it as you will might just throw the whole thing away.

Saint Phlip

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:44:42 -0700

From: "Celia des Archier" <CeliadesArchier at cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mail Order ham? (OOP)

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

As a Southern expatriate living in San Diego, I order my country ham from Sam Edwards, Virgina Traditions, and I've been happy with

their Country ham and their delivery. I haven't had their "city ham", but I expect it to also be good quality, and they get good

reviews.

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 23:18:10 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mail Order ham? (OOP)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There is a great company in Virginia, Padow's Hams

<http://www.padows.com/>;...they

do a Virginia ham that's similar to a Smithfield ham. they provide

instructions as to how to cook it when you get it. Yes, there is a special

trick to it if you get a straight Smithfield or country ham.

My husband's mother tells of giving a Smithfield ham to friends of theirs

who were not familiar with the beastie. When they inquired of the friends

how they liked the ham, they were told that it was just awful...they had to

throw it away because it had mold on it!! She had no idea that you scrub

the mold off, soak it overnight in vinegar and water, then parboil it,

finally dressing and baking it. Sigh. I really hate to imagine all that

wonderful ham being thrown away!

Kiri

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:56:55 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Depictions of Hams ?

On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:08 AM, jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote:

<<< Heralds are looking for pre-1600 depictions of hams (I don't think it

matters whether they are smoked or not). We've turned up a few Dutch

representations in the 1600s, but I'm not having much luck in my limited

time.

-- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

jenne at fiedlerfamily.net >>>

Raw hams or cooked hams? Hanging hams?

Scappi was mentioned--

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/node/9451

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?pp/PPALL: at field%28NUMBER+ at 1%28cph+3a50553%29%29

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italienische_K%C3%BCche.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:13-alimenti,carni_suine,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182.jpg

-----

Try the Web Gallery of art and look for these artists

------------

BEYEREN, Abraham van

Banquet Still-Life undated but 17th century

http://www.wga.hu/support/viewer/z.html

----------

HEDA, Willem Claesz does a number of hams on plates

HEDA, Willem Claesz

Dutch painter (b. 1594, Haarlem, d. 1680, Haarlem)

Ham and Silverware

1649

HEDA, Willem Claesz.

Still-Life

1651

HEDA, Willem Claesz.

Still-Life (another one)

1651

------------

At the Pierpont Morgan Library, here are some mss illuminations

Description of MS M.1001 fol. 94r:

Miniature:

Male figure, seated astride pig, onions tucked into belt, raises flask

held in right hand to mouth, spilling contents on himself. He holds

ham under left arm. Label inscribed GLOTONIE identifies him as

Gluttony. Figure within room decorated with patterned hanging.

Lower margin:

Winged devil, identified by scroll held in his left hand inscribed

BERICH, indicates figures, representing gluttony, seated at table

laden with vessels, knives, platter with meats, and loaf. Woman holds

head of man vomiting on floor. Other figures reach for food or drink

from vessels.

http://utu.morganlibrary.org/medren/SearchResults.cfm?imagename=m1001.094r.jpg&;page=ICA000121414&subject1=ham&totalcount=120&current=14

-------

Gluttony might be a great term to search.

This is another late one but worth looking at because it includes

mustard

from Matters of Taste pp 48-49

Maerten Boelema "de Stomme" active 1640-1644

Carved Ham, silver mustard jar and glasses

I've not found it on the web as yet; it's listed as "private

collection" in the book.

Another of his with a ham is A Breakfast Piece

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Maerten-Boelema-De-Stomme/A-Breakfast-Piece.html

I'll keep looking. Hope this helps

Johnnae or Johnna (note spelling)

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:08:13 -0300

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Serrano hams

Stefan wrote that I said:

<<<(Of course I am referring to Serrano ham. The pigs are raised in the

holm oak forest and only eat acorns in Huelva, Spain and of course the

best hams had black paws from digging for acorns.)>>>

Oh! I'd heard of "Serrano" hams before, but didn't know any details. I thought it was a common occurance in the Middle Ages for pigs to be let run free in the forest and for them to eat acorns. I hadn't realized they dug for the acorns. I thought they were just eating what they found on the surface of the ground. But I've heard of "pigs rooting around", so this makes sense.

I thought pigs dug with their front legs but hams cam from the back legs. Am I off here?

Is it just eating the acorns that make/made the Serrano hams desired? Or do/did they do something special in their processing? I guess originally I was thinking "Serrano" hams had something to do with "Serrano" peppers. >>>

The Spanish "serrano" means "from the mountains" so we have that

kind of ham. That from Huelva (southern Spain from where Columbus said

to America), in particular is called "pata negra," meaning black foot

for the best serrano ham in Spain. The pigs have black feet from the

dirt they pick up roaming the forests. They are amazing animals in that

they smell which acorns are bitter and which are sweet. They reject the

bitter and only eat the sweet. Friends of mine who lived in Spain during

the Spanish Civil War lived on diets of acorns and have informed me of

this difference about which I did not know. I just deleted the word

"alambrar" from the draft of my book which literally means wool but

actually is the ring in the pig's snout to prevent him from making holes

in the ground with his snout. Yes, if the acorns were underground the

pig would dig them up. Pigs can be very obnoxious about digging things

up. It turns out that they the best hunters for truffles but they do not

leave them to their owners if they find them! They are very piggish

about that so as truffles are worth a fortune today we have rings in all

the noses of our pigs!

Back to the theme - no we do nothing but leave the pigs on the

estates to find their acorns in the forest and when it is time for the

slaughter the slaughter man cuts the aorta and we hang them from a tree

to get the remaining blood out. Then the slaughter man cuts off the hind

legs and men helping us prepare the meat cut the fat off on the back

part of the leg to manually press the artery and squeeze out any

remaining blood. (I cannot do that as I am too small and do not have the

muscles.) Then we weigh the hind legs and place them in a bed of rock

salt in a drying room. If the leg weighs 9 k. we use about 25 k. of

salt. Its no problem is we overdo it as the leg only absorbs what it

needs. The legs are left in the salt beds for two days for each kilo,

i.e. 18 in this case. Then we hang them from the rafters in the drying

room which is ventilated. Remember we kill the animals from the saints

day of Saint Martin on, i.e. November 11th - In the Canary Islands is

is not done until the last Thursday in January. This was done to reduce

the livestock that have to be stabled during the winter months and to

provide food for the family while plants are not being harvest.

Hams are normally hung from six months to two years. The longer

they are hung the better they are and the more you pay at the market.

There is nothing more to it then that.

Now in our slaughters I use front legs for sausage meat. I never

thought about salting them put it is possible.

An interesting note is that contrary to our method of salting

serrano hams is that in Granada the hams are buried in snow not salt.

Surprised? So was I when I learned that. The hams are taken to the

mountains outside of the city where my children and I ski in the winter.

In Granada one skies in the morning and goes to the beach in the afternoon!

I can hear J. Isreal Katz telling me to shut up and stop talking

about that dirty prohibited meat! - Its my passion! I love serrano ham!!!

Suey