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salt-msg – 11/29/11

 

Medieval salt production and use.

 

NOTE: See also the files: salt-comm-art, spices-msg, herbs-msg, commerce-msg, travel-msg, stockfish-msg, p-spice-trade-msg, mining-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: caradoc at neta.com (John Groseclose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:53:49 -0700

 

HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner) wrote:

> Does anybody have any information on salt in period? The only thing I

> know about it was that is was bloody expensive and it is cognate with our

> word "salary".  Where was it made, and how? I may attempt a  paper with

> this topic if I can find the damn sources. Yours in Service, Isabelle de

> Foix, Shire of Misty Mere, Meridies

 

Somewhere around here I've got documentation for salt mines working in

Poland in period. Most coastal areas would probably have used the method

of filling shallow pools or bowls with sea water, then letting it dry.

 

 

From: "Dana J. Tweedy" <tweedyd at emh1.pa.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:09:51 -0800

 

In the book "Food in History" by Reany Tannhill(sp?), there is some

information on salt and how  it was produced in period,  Mostly either

mining or by salt pan evaporation.  The salt pans produced an inferior

product, full of waste materials, but it was much cheaper than the salt  

from the salt mines.

 

                Karl Rasmussen of Tvede

 

 

From: david.razler at postoffice.worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:28:57 GMT

 

"Dana J. Tweedy" <tweedyd at emh1.pa.net> wrote:

 

| In the book "Food in History" by Reany Tannhill(sp?), there is some

| information on salt and how  it was produced in period,  Mostly either

| mining or by salt pan evaporation.  The salt pans produced an inferior

| product, full of waste materials, but it was much cheaper than the salt  

| from the salt mines.

|

|                 Karl Rasmussen of Tvede

 

Questionable:

 

"World's Finest Salt"

 

'We first became aware of Fleur de Sel when Food Arts, our favorite

professional food magazine, touted it as the "caviar of salt." From Brittany,

on the coast of France, Fleur de Sel is harvested in minute quantities by

hand, during the months of July and August (the same 300 families have been

harvesting this salt for centuries.) It's gathered from the surface of the sea

where it forms when the sun shines, the wind's from the east, and the humidity

is low. Sometimes only a few hundred pounds a year are harvested. At other

times, several tons are harvested. And what's it like? Well, it has an

unusual, moist (yet not clumpy) texture, and a fine pure flavor. French chefs

recommend using it as a condiment, not an ingredient; a bit of pain de

campagne, spread with butter and gilded with Fleur de Sel, is the ultimate

appetizer. We offer it in 3-oz. jars, available only while the supplies last

(as we write this time the 1996 harvest isn't yet complete, so we're not sure

of quantities). .... $12.95

 

<The Baker's Catalog/King Arthur Flour, winter '96-7 p 15>

 

The same page offers kosher salt <large-flake non-iodized plain salt> at

$1.25/lb, medium-flake sea salt "... evaporated from seawater; it's higher

mineral content gives it a bit of added nutrition, as well as a distinctive

taste," 1 lb/$2.65. Kosher salt, or more properly kashering salt, used for

preparing kosher meat, sells for only a few cents more than plain old iodized

or non-iodized mined salt.

 

Filtering seawater before allowing it to dry and later washing of the salt

(dissolving and re-dehydrating) should produce a nice, clean product.

 

                                dmr

 

David M. Razler

david.razler at worldnet.att.net

 

 

From: jeffs at bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: 11 Nov 1996 18:02:09 GMT

Organization: Boston University

 

Patricia Hefner (HPGV80D at prodigy.com) wrote:

: Does anybody have any information on salt in period? The only thing I

: know about it was that is was bloody expensive and it is cognate with our

: word "salary".  Where was it made, and how?

 

Then (as now) your two major sources would be saltwater brines

(usually from the seacoast) and mines.  As a rule of thumb, Germanic

"Sal" towns (Salzburg is the most obvious) had salt mines in the

vicinity.  Smithsonian magazine a few months ago had an article on the

salt mines of some town in Czechoslovakia where they had crafted an

entire underground city (including a cathedral -- !).  Let me see if I

can dig up the references.

 

Jeffs/William

 

 

From: "Dana J. Tweedy" <tweedyd at emh1.pa.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:08:43 -0800

 

David M. Razler wrote:

>

> campagne, spread with butter and gilded with Fleur de Sel, is the ultimate

> appetizer. We offer it in 3-oz. jars, available only while the supplies last

> (as we write this time the 1996 harvest isn't yet complete, so we're not sure

> of quantities). .... $12.95

>

> <The Baker's Catalog/King Arthur Flour, winter '96-7 p 15>

>

> The same page offers kosher salt <large-flake non-iodized plain salt> at

> $1.25/lb, medium-flake sea salt "... evaporated from seawater; it's higher

> mineral content gives it a bit of added nutrition, as well as a distinctive

> taste," 1 lb/$2.65. Kosher salt, or more properly kashering salt, used for

> preparing kosher meat, sells for only a few cents more than plain old iodized

> or non-iodized mined salt.

 

     It just goes to show that if you call something "gourmet" and slap a

high price tag on it, some sucker will buy it. Seriously though,

although it is possible to get a superior salt from seawater evaporation,

in practice sea salt is not as good for preservation.  According to

Tannahill, sea salt has a high magnesium and calcium content, which has

"...such a deleterious effect on preservation processes". (quoted from

"Food in History").  The saltpans of the Bay of Bourgneuf produced a salt

that was often polluted with sand, seaweed, and other debris.  It's only

advantage is that was much cheaper.  Food preserved with this salt,

(again according to Tannahill,) would often spoil because it would not

penetrate into the food quickly enough.

     Salt could also be obtained from salt springs, by evaporation, but

it was about twice as expensive as "Bay Salt".  Salt from mines was

probably the best quality, but the most expensive.

 

                            Karl Rasmussen of Tvede

 

 

From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:15:58 -0700

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

 

On 15 Nov 1996, Patricia Hefner wrote:

> I heard something about that "salt cathedral" in the Czech lands myself

> awhile back,  but I can't remember where. I'll look for the book, but I

> just may go to the friendly local Netscape browser and see what they have

> to say about salt! ---Isabelle

 

re: the salt cathedral.  The National Geographic for Dec. (the one that

arrived last night anyway) has  3 pictures taken in the "salt chapel" in

one of the News sections of the magazine ( ie not a main article).

Apparently, warm moist air that is pumped into the mine for the continued

good health of current miners is damaging the salt carvings, so a project

is underway to install Dehumidifying equipment in the relevant and

afflicted sections of the mine.

 

Ya learn something new everyday, don't ya?

 

Aldreda of the Lakes (D. Booker Blue Castle Books, Calgary AB )

 

 

From: medievalbk at aol.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt--??

Date: 24 Nov 1996 05:42:50 GMT

 

There is a multiple page article on SALT in the DICTIONARY OF THE MIDDLE

AGES.  Topic in the index: trade, antiquity, bay salt, duties, Eastern

Europe, ecconomic, Germany, Hansa, monastic control, Polish mining, and

even salted Herring.

 

Vilyehm the Merchant

G. F. Armoury Books

medievalbk at aol.com

 

 

From: StCurrie at ix.netcom.com (Steven Currie)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt

Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 01:14:16 GMT

 

You may want to do some research on a salt mine in Poland.  There was

an article in one of the Smithsonian magazines within the last year or

two.  This is what I remember. There is a very large salt mine in

Poland that was mined from either the 1100's or 1300's.  A "grant of

production" was given from the King of Poland to the town.  He

received somewhere around 33% of the revenues to his treasury.  As I

remember, it is still being mined for salt.

 

Lord Etienne of Burgundy

Barony of Calafia

Kingdom of Caid

(Steven Currie)

 

 

From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (Daniel W. Butler-Ehle)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period salt

Date: 10 Dec 1996 19:15:40 -0500

Organization: Michigan Technological University

 

Steven Currie (StCurrie at ix.netcom.com) wrote:

:  You may want to do some research on a salt mine in Poland.  There was

: an article in one of the Smithsonian magazines within the last year or

: two.  This is what I remember. There is a very large salt mine in

: Poland that was mined from either the 1100's or 1300's.  A "grant of

: production" was given from the King of Poland to the town.  He

: received somewhere around 33% of the revenues to his treasury.  As I

: remember, it is still being mined for salt.

 

This month's "National Geographic".

 

 

From: jfideli at newshost.li.net (Fideli)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: period salt

Date: 27 Dec 1996 21:27:46 GMT

Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)

 

Greetings any and all who were interested in this topic..

 

It was posted to me to check into the salt mines of poland.  Well to show

my begining research.  I could not find it in the national geographic..

but this may be an oversight on the comp list....I did however find a

large spread in Lapidary Journal feb95 and in Smithsonian march 94 on the

Wieliczka salt mine.

        I have to say quickly and before deep reasearch. that I still

belive that the inpact of salt mining was not great until the 17cent.  I

am now looking into the ecomonic and political factors that may have

played a part in this.  It is a fact that getting salt from the sea is

easier that from a mine with all its hasards.

        It is an intersting side note that the area of this mine (just

outside of krakow) was always in poland, even with the shifting borders of

our period.

        I will keep the list informed of any updates...however my article

(haveing been rewritten , since Caraidoc found an error on my part) is a

very well documented look at salt in period. Again I offer to any who wish

to see it.  I might send it to TI, (after researching the mines of poland,

italy, germany, france and britan) after finishing my reasearch.

 

                    Lord Xaviar the Eccentric

                 Man of a Thousand Persona,..Etc

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gules, on a chevron between in chevron a cleaver and a cleaver

reversed and in base a satyr Rampant Or, six cauldrons sable!

 

 

From: dietmarrvs at aol.com (DietmarRvS)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: period salt

Date: 10 Jan 1997 02:44:36 GMT

 

>I have to say quickly and before deep reasearch. that I still belive that the

>inpact of salt mining was not great until the 17cent.  I am now looking into

>the ecomonic and political factors that may have played a part in this. It is a

>fact that getting salt from the sea is easier that from a mine with all its

>hazards.

 

I think you may be mistaken as to how easy it is to get salt seawater .

Seawater is only about 3 percent salt on average. In order to get salt

from the sea, you need large tracts of flat land close to the sea

(preferrably in the intertidal zone) and an elaborate system of canals to

flood the land.  On top of that, you also need a climate that is sunny and

warm enough to evaporate off the water at an appreciable rate.  Most of

Europe doesn't have the climate for it.

 

As for salt mining, there are many mines still being worked today that

were known in antiquity.  My Encyclopaedia Britannica says:

 

"The rocks of Permian age contain some of the largest rock-salt deposits

in the world.  The most important are the Zechstein deposits of Germany,

long exploited not only for their common salt but for their potassium

content.  The salt deposits of the sub-Carpathian region extending from

Poland through Hungary and Rumania may be of this age.  In the Donetz

basin and the Volga region of European U.S.S.R. are extremely important

deposits of Permian rock salt...."

 

"The Triassic of England contains important rock-salt deposits which have

been worked for many years.  In the Tyrol the Triassic strata also contain

important salt deposits...."

 

"Another type of rock-salt deposit which is economically important is the

salt dome....Similar domes in the sub-Carpathian region of Europe have

been worked since ancient times.  The north German plain has many domes,

extensively worked, which are thought to have originated below 6,000

feet."

 

One of the most historically important salt mines in Europe is the town of

Halle (modern Swabische-Halle) in Germany.  It was a salt center of

importance to the Germanic  tribes before Charlemagnes son Charles erected

a fort there in 806.  The salt works is mentioned in a charter by Otto I,

conveying the place to the Diocese of Magdeburg in 968.  The family of

Frederick Barbarossa gained prominence because of their ancestral control

of salt mines in this region and throughout Swabia.

 

Another source to check out is the "De Re Mettalica" by Georgius Agricola.

First published in 1556, it is now available in paperback from Dover (I

paid $17.95) ISBN 0-486-60006-8  This was the first book on mining to be

based on field research and observation and contains numerous detailed

technical drawings illustrating the various specialized techniques of

mining.  There are about ten pages that deal with salt, both drying it

from seawater and mining it from deposits.  It also discusses the various

minerals that can be extracted and their uses for metallurgy and alchemy.

There are also historical references to the work of Pliny.  This book

would be a great source for your research.

 

Hope you get some help from this.

Dietmar

 

 

From: jfideli at newshost.li.net (Fideli)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Period Salt again

Date: 9 Jan 1997 05:20:26 GMT

Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)

 

Greetngs  to  those who asked about this.

 

        I went back over my research to see why I left out salt mines...

It was for many reasons the main one being that they did not have any

major influence on the salt trade. They were harder to get at, many were

not mines in period but were brines, because of the flooding.  They also

did not have access to the larger deposits of rock salt.  If you wish more

information Email me at <jfideli at suffolk.lib.ny.us>

 

                    Lord Xaviar the Eccentric

                 Man of a Thousand Persona,..Etc

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gules, on a chevron between in chevron a cleaver and a cleaver

reversed and in base a satyr Rampant Or, six cauldrons sable!

 

 

From: jfideli at newshost.li.net (Fideli)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: period salt

Date: 10 Jan 1997 21:20:54 GMT

Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)

 

I dont mean to appear rude but MY intial comments were correct, Sea water

or brine extraction was the major source of salt throughout our period,

many of the mines  that were "used from antiquity" were flooded during the

middle ages and were used as brines . thus the the method of boiling off

the salt was in use at these sites as well as by the shore.

 

One of my main books on this is

        Multhauf, Robert P.; Neptunes's Gift. The Johns Hopkins Univ.

Press. London. 1978. Isbn 0-8018-1955-5

 

Yes, Seawater is 3.5 percent solution of salts of which 2.5 percent is

sodium chloride.  Halle was a salt brine nearly satureated with salt 25.5

percent.  But most brines were weaker than seawater and owed their

advantage to the cheapness of fuel and their proximity to the intended

market.

 

The African Salt deposits were not discoverd by the Medieval Europeans.

 

Most of the true mines in Europe during our time period were either

flooded or not large in their percentage of salt to extraneous rock, some

were even believed to have been worked out, that is until mining got better.

 

I have De re Metallica, I am rather anal about research.

 

Xaviar

 

 

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:05:27 -0500 (CDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )

Subject: SC - Salt and Foam

 

Stefan, I believe, commented about cooking the fish that salt and water

(being boiled together) don't cause foam. Actually, in period they

probably did.  The salt had a number of impurities in it and would need

to be skimmed off.  Ditto for sugar!  That still wouldn't negate how he

decided to cook the fish but I thought I'd toss in my two cents before

I go spend them at Pennsic tomorrow morning.

 

Alys Katharine

 

 

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:53:27 -0400

From: Aine of Wyvernwood <sybella at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - period suerkraut?

 

ANN1106 at aol.com wrote:

> I would like to hear more, when you do your research.  What we think is just

> common sense (a good housewife preserving her cabbage) is not always the

> case!  First of all, the brining process needs salt - which I don't believe

> was very available to all classes.  It was, at one time so precious, that the

> Romans gave their soldiers a "salt allowance" (hence the word "salary).

> The Polish also store shredded cabbage in barrels of salted water throughout

> the winter.

> Audrey (ann1106 at aol.com)

 

my lady, many years ago, I read an article in Scientific American, in regards to

the availability of salt during the late roman early middle ages period.

There was at thriving salt market in the Baltic region.

Huge sea salt beds in northern germany and in the normandy, belguim region as

well.  Salt was readily available,  for a price.

 

btw, just as we call the english Limies for thier partaking of Limes in the

ships.

The Germans became known as Krauts for the exact same reason.

 

aine

 

 

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:25:08 -0400

From: Aine of Wyvernwood <sybella at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - salt mines

 

they also had a thriving industry making salt from sea water.  I distincly

remember reading an article in Scientific American years ago about that.

Seems that about the time of the first major ''barbarian'' invasions south to

Rome, there had been a global warming.   The oceans had risen a few feet and

flooded the salt beds on the norther German coast,  The barbarian tribes moved

south in search of salt, and ended up sacking Rome.

aine

 

 

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:11:19 -0400

From: "Marilyn Traber" <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Timeline of Food

 

The earliest

known salt mine is IIRC the Halstatd mine in Gernamy somewhere. The only

reason this springs readily to mind is my interest in early Celtic history,

and La Tene [ a lake settlement] and a graveyard and garbage midden in the

Hallstadt mine are the earliest groups to use the decorative motives

commonly ascribed to Celts. If memory also serves me, there were findings of

the breceltic Beaker culture also in the aea, so that would end up dating

settlement to abour 4000 BC or so. With the discovery of various trade goods

from the Hallstadt region on the southern side of the Alps, I dont have any

problem in any form of salt trade well into periods predating classical

medeterranean culture.

margali

 

 

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:13:58 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Timeline of Food

 

Hallstatt is in the Salzkammergut near Salzburg, Austria.  Seems to me, the

Celtic archeology of the area dates from about 1000 BC, making it one of the

oldest sites found.  The salt was being mined at that time.

 

You can reach Munich by following the Inn out of the Salzkammergut and then

crossing the to the Danube.  However, why would Munich become the center of

the salt trade in 1158, when it is obvious the trade has been in existence

for 2000 years?

 

Hah, quick ref answer, Munich was founded in 1158.  It became the de facto

center of an already existing trade in Northern Europe.  The whole thing

makes me wonder if the monks weren't into salt distribution as well as beer.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:52:54 EDT

From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com

Subject: Re:  Salt mines

 

Halstatt was mined from the 10th century BC, according to archaeological

findings in the region.  It's actually in Austria, in a region known as the

Salzkammergut (gee, go figure).  There are over 2000 tombs, containing corpses

perfectly preserved, with all their goods. Backpacks, earthenware pots, picks

and other mining tools, etc.  The French had Arc-et-Senans, with salt works

built by Louis XV's architect Ledoux, but having a long history of salt making

before that "modern" works was built.

 

Wolfmother

 

 

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:50:32 -0900

From: "Reia M. Chmielowski" <kareina at eagle.ptialaska.net>

Subject: Re: SC - a Salty story

 

At 15:47 1/5/99 , Elysant wrote:

>"La Baliene Sea Salt is from the clear blue Mediterranean.  Evaporated to a

>sparkling white by sun and sea breezes.  It is then washed in more clear

>Mediterranean sea water...The French, as fussy about health as they are about

>food, make great claims for the rare salts contained in Sea Salt".

>Is this a lot of marketing hype then and nothing more?  It seems to taste a

>bit different from the regular salt.

 

Sea water contains (in order of concentration) oxygen, hydrogen, chlorine,

sodium, magnesium, sulfur, calcium, potassium, and a bunch of other stuff.

As it evaporates various "salts" precipitate out of it due to the increased

concentration of those ions.  The most common of those salts is halite

(NaCl), or what we call table salt.  Another salt is sylvite (KCl), which

has a more bitter flavor.  I don't remember right off hand what the order

of precipitation is, but if seawater is allowed to completely evaporate

then you will have a collection of different salts.  Each one precipitates

in turn, based on the concentration of ions remaining in the solution.

 

When oceans are evaporating on a large scale they tend to precipitate one

salt at a time for long periods.  As time goes on you can get many meters

thickness of one salt or another.  As geologic conditions change these

layers can get buried under other layers of sediment, and eventually get

compressed enough to turn into rock (lithification).  If this package of

rock is then uplifted and becomes part of the continent it may be mined.

Because of the thickness of each layer it is possible for the miners to

obtain a product that is just halite, or just sylvite, or whatever.

 

Therefore I suspect that the "healthful" attributes of sea-salt stem from

the fact that there are more minerals present...

 

Kareina (a geologist, can you tell?)

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:14:17 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Salt

 

Mordonna22 at aol.com writes:

<< I have a question or two - to start with, where did period cooks get

their salt from?  >>

 

Food in History has extensive information on salt mining including descriptions

of mines, trade routes, etc. Salt really was no different in the MA than it is

now except for the exclusion of iodine and anti-caking agents. However, that

is not a real problem since a few grains of wheat or rice in the salt

shaker will eliminate caking.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:40:51 -0600

From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC -  salt

 

The January issue of _Smithsonian_ magazine has an article on salt, which

we talked about recently.  A few period references: Civilizations rose in

Africa, China, India and the Middle East around rich salt deposits.

Salt bought slaves and at times was traded at a value twice that of gold.

Marco Polo discovered that Tibetans used salt cakes stamped with the

imperial seal of the great Kublai Khan as money.

When Julius Caesar invaded Britain in 55 B.C. he found the natives making

salt by pouring brine over hot sticks and scraping off the leftover

glaze...he always traveled with "salinators" who were skilled at making

salt for his troops.  Those experts showed the...Brits how to boil brine,

as the Romans had been doing for centuries.

The basic methods of salt production haven't changed for centuries--boil,

evaporate, mine....Tuareg salt caravans in the Sahara...

Beginning about A.D. 1000, Timbuktu, established by the Tuareg nomads on

a branch of the Niger River, became a major trading center where for

centuries salt was bartered for gold.  ...the salt was hewn right out of

the earth.

 

There are references to salt's use in religion, health, trade, etc. from

2000 B.C. China to today, most of the article concerning salt production

here in the USA.  Very interesting.

 

Allison

allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA

Kingdom of Aethelmearc

 

 

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:10:57 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - pepper

 

> >Looking in Waverly Root's Food, the comment is made that Horace thought the

> >perfect general seasoning was black salt and white pepper.  Horace lived in

> >the 1st Century BCE, so white pepper should be in period.

> What is black salt?

> Faoiltighearna

 

It is a type of salt that was mined in India in Antiquity.  I know nothing

about its composition, but I suspect that it was regular salt with a high

percentage of manganese compound impurities.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:30:02 +1200

From: Phil Anderson <hairy at sloth.southern.co.nz>

Subject: SC - Salt

 

Some days ago, Ras wrote:

>Platina, IIRC, doesn't use salt in his

>recipes but gives a warning or to not to use too much salt.

 

Platina does in fact specifically list salt as an ingredient in a number

of recipes, but also writes (Book VII, 21) "I say nothing about salt,

since almost no food is made without it." (p 361 in Milham). I take that

as a fairly solid indication that it's reasonable to add salt to taste.

 

Edward Long-hair

Southron Gaard, Caid

 

 

Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:02:38 -0800

From: haku-jin at ns.net

Subject: [FTF] Salt in North Africa

 

Hi, I'm new to this list but follow many others and can't believe that

I missed the announcement when this one started up. I've just finished

reading the archives and followed the salt discussion with relish. What

I'm surprised wasn't mentioned was the salt trade flowing out of the

Sahara into the Meditteranean countries and Central Africa. The salt

was/is mined directly out of the earth in the middle of the Sahara by

political prisoners and slaves. Huge beds of rock salt. They were cut

out of the ground by hand in very large slabs. The Tuareg caravans

would supply the miners and administrators with food, water (if the

caravan was late, the miners often were found dead) and gold and in

turn would move the salt. Much of the salt moved south into Central

Africa because that was where it could be traded measure for measure

for gold. Worth his weight in salt in this instance also meant worth

his weight in gold.

 

The Tuareg didn't value gold but did understand what it meant to other

people. They used the gold to expand their caravans and power over the

trade, raiding competing interests and establishing themselves as the

dominant force in North African trade during the MA through the

colonial era. Ever hear of Timbuktoo? It was a well on the salt route

eventually turned into a very wealthy center of higher learning, having

the largest Muslim university of its time.

 

Jason Baker

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:35:09 -0400

From: "Bethany Public Library" <betpulib at ptdprolog.net>

Subject: Re: SC -spice and economics

 

>Isn't there a reference somewhere which indicates Roman soldiers were paid

>for their labors in salt?  Or is this just another one of those "histories"

>we learn in school, which have no basis in the "real world"?

>Balthazar of Blackmoor

 

Try, as mentioned in a previous post, *Bread and Salt*, for lots of salt

related trivia including manufacture. I'm reasonably certain the Roman

Soldier-Salt connection is documented there.

 

I love the salt references that have come down to us through language, too:

 

Salty Dog (sexually rude or verbally explicit man)

Worth his salt (valuable person worth feeding expensive spices)

Rub salt in the wounds (painful, but also expensive, so used for the

worst --or possibly lowest fallen--criminals)

Above the salt (the rank of the person denotes worth, re: seating with

access to the salt)

 

Aoife

 

 

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:14:18 EDT

From: Morgana Abbey <morgana.abbey at juno.com>

Subject: SC - Re: Lucanian sausage from Platina

 

[Talking about what seemed to be a high proportion of salt to meat (1:10)

in some period Lucian sausage recipes]

 

I remember reading a report about how lead poisoning causes an inability

to taste salt.  The people writing the article said the recipes they were

working with came from  a region where lead poisoning was common, and

yes, they were unbearably salty.

 

Could this be a possibility for the sausage problem?

 

Morgana

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:27:59 -0700

From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>

Subject: SC - Re: Sea salt

 

"Laura C. Minnick" wrote:

> I have never heard of sea salt causing migraines (odd, since I've had

> them for more than 20 years). It sounds as though the chemical

> composition varies- what is in/not in sea salt that makes it different

> from the standard Morton's? And could iodine be causing the bitterness

> reported in standard table salt?

 

Typically, there is a higher mineral content to sea salt than table

salt. I know _sel de Guerande_ from the salt marches of Brittany has

trace amounts of clay from the marsh bottoms. Gives it a grey colour.

 

Seumas

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:29:10 -0700

From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>

Subject: Re: Sea salt, was SC - Adaptation from Apicius for jerking meat

 

Once source states that table salt is 99.9% NaCl, with the remaining

0.1% being iodide and non-caking agents, such as calcium silicate and

sugar (the sugar might have some preservative effect on the iodide as

well). Sea salt is supposed to be 95-98% NaCl, with the other 5-2% being

trace minerals from the sea. This includes sulfur as a sulfite, but it

didn't mention sulfides, nor actual amounts/percentages of the various

minerals. There were a lot.

 

Seumas

 

 

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:50:57 -0700

From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>

Subject: SC - Re: Sea salt

 

Trying to find out the mineral content of sea salt on the Web is mostly

turning up companies that sell sea salt as an alternative to table salt.

One actually gave some numbers. Redmond Minerals, in Redmond, Utah, USA,

mines their salt from a Jurassic age sea deposit. They say it contains

over the various deposit:

 

Sodium Chloride     98.32%

Calcium             .40%

Potassium           .12%

Sulfur        .11%

Iron                  .06%

Phosphorus           .05%

Iodine        .002%

Manganese            .0015%

Copper        .001%

Zinc                  .0006%

 

Generally, the tone is there are 72-84 minerals in sea salt, whether

evaporated or mined from a sea deposit, including sodium and chlorine

(NaCl). The commercial refining process removes all these except the

NaCl. If it's the 5% sold for food consumption, anti-caking agents are

added, possibly the sugar for taste, and potassium iodide to prevent

goiter.

 

Seumas

 

 

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:25:59 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - period salt

 

One of the major exports from Poland was mined salt; evaporated salt was

exported from Russia. A Salt mine in Wieliczka was said to have been

worked by the 12th century (UNESCO says since the 13th); apparently it is

still being worked in addition to allowing tours. (Bored miners have, over

the centuries, carved chapels, statuary, and other massive decorations in

the upper parts of the mine, which can no longer be worked because

removing the remaining salt would cause the roof to fall in!)

I believe Bohemia and parts of Hungary had working salt mines that

pre-date the Wieliczka mine.

 

_Bread and Salt_ has an excellent chapter on the Salt Extraction industry

in period and just-post-period Russia. (Bread and Salt: A social and

economic history of food and drink in Russia. R.E.F. Smith and David

Christian. (NY: Cambridge University Press, 1984).)  

 

- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:32:16 -0400

From: margali <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - grey salt

 

you can get assorted salts at kingarthurflour.com

margali

 

also assorted flours, assorted forms of sugar and way nifty baking

goodies

 

 

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:00:22 -0600

From: "Scholast Michel" <Scholast at bookwyrm.com>

Subject: Re: SC - grey salt

 

On 20 Oct 2000, at 16:56, James F. Johnson wrote:

> Nisha Martin wrote:

> > Where do you find this type of salt? I have heard of

> > grey salt for years, and never seen it. Is it much

> > more expensive than sea salt?

> I've never seen it that I recall. Just read about it. The grey salt I

> mentioned comes from Brittany, so it would have to be exported. I'm not

> sure who else makes a grey salt. If I find some, I'll post the source.

 

Francesco Sirene, spicer

 

http://www.silk.net/sirene/spices.htm

 

Item 0430 BLACK SALT - lumps

    From India, this has a stronger flavour than ordinary salt. Black

salt might be just the thing for the 'lower tables' at a feast, to show

their reduced status by contrast with the pure white salt served in

the Great Salt at the head table. Powder the lumps in your mortar.

                                   25 g           .40

                                   500 g         7.20

All prices in Canadian funds

 

 

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:43:38 +0100

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - period salt

 

The differences between mined salt and salt evaporated from the sea

_might_ have reasons that are not so much chemical in nature but that

have to do with the different techniques involved. Jean-Claude Hocquet,

in his book about the history of salt, gives a vivid picture of the

different techniques to produce salt and of the considerable technical

problems involved. The basic trick is the same: NaCl has a different

saturation-point than the other kinds of salts (the impurities) in the

water. Now, it seems to me, that it was easier to control the

crystalization of the different salts in the process of boiling salt

than in the process of evaporating salt near the sea, where sun and wind

played a major role.

 

Hocquet says, that in the 15th and the 16th century boiled salt was of

superior quality and that some types of grey and impure sea salt were

boiled afterwards to improve their quality. In addition, he says that

the lothringian salt boilers were able to produce several kinds of

salt, all different in quality and graining, by varying the

parameters of the boiling process.

 

- -- Jean-Claude Hocquet: Weisses Gold. Das Salz und die Macht in Europa

von 800 bis 1800 [white gold; salt and power in Europe from 800 to

1800]. Stuttgart 1993. -- Includes a bibliography with exactly 500

titles on various aspects of the production, the use and the economics

of salt.

 

In case you don't read German, stick to the original ("Le sel et

le Pouvoir", Paris 1985) in French ... ;-) I don't know if the book was

translated into English.

 

Thomas

 

 

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:47:02 EDT

From: Devra at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2711 - grey sea salt

 

Seems to me that this was one of the bizaare, exotic items being sold by Gold

Mine Natural Food Co (organic, strange, & ethnic foods our specialty) in

their last year's catalog.  They're also the people who offered teff...

 

- --EGAD! Here is their catalog on the bottom shelf!  They offer:

    Fleur de sel, the flower of the ocean

    Celtic coarse light grey sea salt: "As seawater concentrates in the

shallow ponds, large crystals form on the clay bottom. The art of the

Paludiers is to collect as much salt as possible with the least amount of

clay...   Also offered in fine salt

    Lima French Atlantic sea salt

    Eden sea salt

    Muramoto's "balanced minerals" sea salt

(God, I didn't realize there were that many things to say about salt....But

there's a new  book I'm supposed to be getting from Johns Hopkins Press

called "Neptune's Gift", about you guessed it....)

    Gold Mine Natural Food Co

    7805 Arjons Dr

    San Diego CA 92126-4368

    1-800-475-3663

They MIGHT be on-line or have an email address by now, since I'm referring to

last year's catalog.

 

Devra the Baker, finally back after Pennsic

Devra Langsam

www.poisonpenpress.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:51:23 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Sea salt

 

> > If they were near the coast, probably so.  If they were inland, there

> > were salt mines, like the large one in Germany.

> Seems one of the technical requirements for a evaporation industry is a

> clay rich soil to form the very smooth evaporation ponds with.

 

Not necessarily. Russian salt evaporation was done in large metal basins.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:29:13 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt-- new books

 

There has been a number of postings regarding

the subject of salt of late... be it oversalting

or undersalting today's feast dishes

and below salt/above salt/price of salt/use of salt

inquiries and comments.

 

There are two new books on the subject.

Salt. Grain of Life. by Pierre Laszlo.

Translation of Chemins et savoirs du sel[1998]

by Mary Beth Mader. New York: Columbia University

Press, 2001.Notes, but no index or bibliography sections.

 

and

 

Salt. A World History. by Mark Kurlansky. Walker and

Company, 2001. This is by the author of Cod and is featured

in the new issue of Saveur number 56.

 

A 1996 publication that might also be of interest is:

Neptune's Gift : A History of Common Salt.

(John Hopkins Studies in the Hist of Tech, New Series 2)

by Robert P. Multhauf. Reissue edition (September 1996)

Johns Hopkins Univ Pr; ISBN: 0801854695

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway

 

 

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:29:13 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt-- new books

 

There has been a number of postings regarding

the subject of salt of late... be it oversalting

or undersalting today's feast dishes

and below salt/above salt/price of salt/use of salt

inquiries and comments.

 

There are two new books on the subject.

Salt. Grain of Life. by Pierre Laszlo.

Translation of Chemins et savoirs du sel[1998]

by Mary Beth Mader. New York: Columbia University

Press, 2001.Notes, but no index or bibliography sections.

 

and

 

Salt. A World History. by Mark Kurlansky. Walker and

Company, 2001. This is by the author of Cod and is featured

in the new issue of Saveur number 56.

 

A 1996 publication that might also be of interest is:

Neptune's Gift : A History of Common Salt.

(John Hopkins Studies in the Hist of Tech, New Series 2)

by Robert P. Multhauf. Reissue edition (September 1996)

Johns Hopkins Univ Pr; ISBN: 0801854695

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway

 

 

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:48:19 -0500

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Black salt (was Intro and question)

 

>IIRC, "black salt" is halite (regular sodium chloride) with manganese

impurities that give it the black color.

 

I checked a dozen or so Indian cookbooks laying around here and

couldn't find anything specific.  I've used it and it doesn't taste

like regular salt.

 

http://www.geocities.com/herbalexporter/miniral.htm

BLACK SALT, SANCHAL SALT

SODIUM SULPHATE MIXED WITH SODIUM CHLORIDE  KALA NAMAK

 

http://gourmetsleuth.com/saltguide.htm

Black salt named Kala Namak in India, is really a blend of minerals

characterized by a strong sulfur odor. It is commonly used in snack

foods in North India.

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:56:28 -0700

From: "Harris Mark.S-rsve60" <Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] gourmet sea salt

To: "SCA-Cooks maillist (E-mail)" <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

The whole idea of getting salt from different regions and that you could taste the difference still astounds me but here is a website with more different types of sea salt in one place than I've seen before. The fact that you could make money doing this astounds me less.

http://www.saltworks.us/index.asp

 

I guess if you had the money you could put together a salt tasting party. Some of these seem to be processed with methods similar to those done in period, even from the same regions, maybe from the same salt pans. Some crystals are in a pretty raw state, much as they would have been in period and you can see the different crystal sizes and colors in their photographs.

 

One comment that amused me about one of the Sicilian salts was "The combination of different minerals and the naturally low percentage of sodium chloride in Ravida sea salt give it a delicate taste and plenty of flavor without being too strong or salty.". A naturally LOW precentage of sodium chloride??? But yes I guess there are actually other salts than the salt generally spoken of when we talk of table salt.

 

Oh, and for those that have a really big feast coming up, or want to salt their herring or cod catch in a period way, some of these salts are available in 55 pound bags.

 

Stefan

 

 

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:38:16 -0500

From: Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur <avrahamharofeh at herald.sca.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] gourmet sea salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:56:28 -0700, Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com wrote:

> The whole idea of getting salt from different regions and that you could

> taste the difference still astounds me but here is a website with more

> different types of sea salt in one place than I've seen before. The fact

> that you could make money doing this astounds me less.

> http://www.saltworks.us/index.asp

> I guess if you had the money you could put together a salt tasting party.

> Some of these seem to be processed with methods similar to those done in

> period, even from the same regions, maybe from the same salt pans. Some

> crystals are in a pretty raw state, much as they would have been in

> period and you can see the different crystal sizes and colors in their

> photographs.

 

Cook's Illuistrated did a tasting of salts in Sept 2002. They concluded that

sea salts are best saved for use at the table, where the delicate nuances of

flavor variation and, in particular, their special crunch can best be

savored. They found that the largest crystals won the most points when

sprinkled on a steak - Maldon Sea Salt won that round of tests. In cooking,

they found little or no variation in flavor when used in a liquid cooking

medium. They actually downgraded the sea salts in baked goods because of

poor dispersal - getting a "crunch" of salt in the middle of a biscuit

isn't anyone's idea of good food.

****************

Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur

      (mka Randy Goldberg MD)

 

 

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:46:22 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cookbooks and historical food references

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> 5) Roman to current day salt making along the shores of Aigues-Mortes.

> Sharon

 

Aigues-Mortes (Dead Waters)

 

Founded in 1241 by Louis IX of France on land purchased from Psalmody Abbey

(of 5th Century origin and built on the site of an earlier Roman ruin).  It

marks France's first direct access to the Mediterranean.  Louis helped  start

and expand the current salt trade, claiming 1/7 of the proceeds as his share. The city walls were completed about 1300 and shortly thereafter the access to the sea silted up.

 

Salt production in the region (the Camargue or Rhone delta) is by evaporation of sea water in salins (earth tanks).  This is probably the same method used by the Roman engineer Peccaius, who was responsible for setting up Roman salt production in the region (don't ask for a date on him, I haven't found one).  The area came under Roman control in the 1st Century BCE and I didn't find it mentioned in Pliny, so the salt production may be later than 79 CE.

 

There is apparently evidence of salt production and trade with the

Phoenician in the area.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:21:29 -0700 (PDT)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interesting medieval food article

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>

>> Medieval food was bland.

 

> Yes, it was. At least for peasants, and for noblemen, too, I suppose, if

> there wasn't a feast going on. Spices were way expensive. OK, you can always

> season with herbs. But if salt is equal in price with gold, everyday-food

> will be bland (at least to modern palates).

-------------------------

 

Mustard.  Garlic.  Horseradish.  Verjus/vinegar. And, as you mention,

herbs.

 

I'm not an expert on the economics of salt, but take a look at the

chart on this page:

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1.htm

In 15th century England, a pint of salt cost half a penny, at a time

when a mason earned 6-8 pence per day.  For comparison, the same chart

says that a gallon of milk or a pint of butter cost a penny, and a

chicken cost five pence.  I think salt was well within the means of the

working class.

 

I don't know what salt prices were like elsewhere.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:14:20 -0500

From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Making Salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Sharon Gordon wrote:

> Has anyone experimented with making salt?

> Did you boil the water out or use natural evaporation?

> Was it hard to find clean enough sea water?

> Sharon

> gordonse at one.net

 

Mechanical evaporation (i.e. distilling the water out) is usually only

used with solution mining. Solar evaporation is usually used in the

production of Sea Salt.

 

You can find just about everything you want to know about modern (and

some historical) salt production at:

http://www.saltinstutute.org

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:36:56 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Making Salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

We went to the salt pans off the Slovenian coast

back in 2004. They date back centuries.

 

I bought some packages of the salt to bring back.

http://www.slovenia-tourism.si/?naravne_znamenitosti_jame=906

http://dragonja.nib.si/Secovlje/index.html

http://www.uvi.si/eng/slovenia/photos/landscape/012/index.html

 

There are books that describe the process, but you have to buy those

in Slovenia.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:49:14 -0500

From: "Katherine Throckmorton" <kthrockmorton at lycos.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Making Salt

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I would recommend reading _Salt:A world history_ by Mark Kurlansky  

which goes into great detail about the methods used to obtain salt at  

different times and in various places.  He is quite specific about  

what methods were used in a given area, so it would be quite easy to  

work out the method best suited to your area.

The bibliography is also quite extensive, if you want or need to  

track down additional references.

BTW, _Salt_ is also worth reading for the culinary history, as a  

great deal of the book deals with the trade in various salt-cured  

foodstuffs.  I now know more about the Basque whaling and the whale  

bacon industry than anyone should ;)

 

-Katherine

 

 

Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:33:35 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese fat? - LOOONNGG!

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Sep 4, 2007, at 2:59 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

 

> It sounds like you are using the regular salt for the initial curing/

> rind creation? Then how do you use the flavored salts? Do you smooth

> these onto the rind or mash them into the rind some? The dry salting

> stage is what starts the rind creation, right?

> I took a look at the various flavored salts, including various smoked

> salts, that Auntie Arwen had at her shop at Pennsic, but really

> didn't buy any since I didn't really know how I would use them, and

> thus which ones to buy. For the same reason I didn't buy any of her

> spice mixes. I guess there is always mail order.

> Anyone know if we have any evidence of flavored salts being

> specifically used in period? We know that some salts, such as the sea

> salts from France, were known to full of dirt and other contaminants,

> but that is different.

 

I don't think I've run across salts being specifically flavored by

design, but there are a number of late English sources -- Digby,

Plat, the usual suspects (and presumably others) with instructions on

how to purify salts (mostly by some form of heat treatment or by

distillation).

 

What I can attest to first-hand is that one should never use Indian

black salt in sausages ;-).

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:05:48 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Black salt Re:  Cheese fat? - LOOONNGG!

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> What I can attest to first-hand is that one should never use Indian

> black salt in sausages ;-).

 

Black salt needs to be used sparingly, and is not generally a good  

replacement for regular salt.  I've usually heard of it used in fruit  

salads and raitas (yogurt salads).  If you replaced regular salt with  

black salt, was it too much?  Or did the flavor not work with the  

other spices?  Or was it just not good on meat?

 

Ranvaig

 

 

Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:29:09 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Black salt Re:  Cheese fat? - LOOONNGG!

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Sep 4, 2007, at 5:05 PM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:

 

>> What I can attest to first-hand is that one should never use Indian

>> black salt in sausages ;-).

> Black salt needs to be used sparingly, and is not generally a good

> replacement for regular salt.  I've usually heard of it used in

> fruit salads and raitas (yogurt salads).  If you replaced regular

> salt with black salt, was it too much?  Or did the flavor not work

> with the other spices?  Or was it just not good on meat?

> Ranvaig

 

It seemed much "saltier" than an equal mass of, say, sea salt or

kosher salt, and I suspect what made it really bad for sausages was

the compact nature of the meat and the casings. I repeatedly

corrected the seasoning with all the other ingredients _except_ salt

(including meat), and even after this it seemed to grow saltier-

tasting over time (no, these were not big crystals slowly dissolving

or anything like that). But in addition there were sulfurous fumes,

which, in an open dish or pan of something well-ventilated, would not

have been a long-term problem, but these were like stink-bombs when

cut into.

 

It just wasn't a good match, and there's probably a good reason why

India is not known for charcuterie and Germany for colored salts in

cooking. I don't ordinarily believe in letting the inanimate objects

win -- it keeps me awake at night -- but this was one case where the

simplest and best solution just seemed to be to not do that again.

 

A.

 

 

Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:58:44 -0700

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Searching for Salt in bulk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

charding at nwlink.com wrote:

<<< I and my cheese making partner are looking for refined kosher salt in bulk.

 

We recently discovered that the cheese salt that we are using is made by

ADM (Arthur Daniels Midland) which is a not so good thing. We would rather

not send our money to them.

 

When I say in bulk, we use about 160 pounds of salt in a season.

 

Maeva in An Tir

(Olympia, WA) >>>

 

How about Redmond RealSalt, do you have any objection to them?  Look here:

http://www.realsalt.com/shop/bulk_kosher_realsalt.cfm

 

just googling "kosher salt bulk" popped that and many other companies to

fill your needs.

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:05:49 -0700

From: "Dan Brewer" <danqualman at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Searching for Salt in bulk

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Sea salt is available in bulk.  google bulk salt .. It is listed from 50

cents a pound up to 30 dollars a pound.

 

Dan in Auburn

 

 

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:11:37 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Has anyone held a salt tasting?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Mar 11, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

<<< Just one: Do not, do not, do not, use Indian black salt in pork sausages. It is very bad and will exact a terrible vengeance upon you. >>>

 

Now you *have* to tell the story...

-----------

 

Dead men tell no tales.

 

Seriously, though, my experience was that, either due to the salt  

itself, and any impurities that may add to its character, or perhaps  

to chemicals in the meat itself (which was pork), when reacting with  

the salt, created a pretty powerful hydrogen sulfide whiff. The  

sausages, which were otherwise unremarkable and made with great care,  

frankly stank. I hoped that the fumes would dissipate in cooking. They  

didn't.

 

My feeling was that the whole point of making sausages was to put  

things into intestines, with a view toward the final product going in  

the general direction of the consumer's intestines.

 

A constant and powerful reminder of (more or less) what comes *out of*  

intestines would seem to me to be the antithesis of the sausage-

maker's art.

 

I won't be able to look at an Elizabethan recipe for Fartes of  

Portingale in the same way again.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:25:37 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Indian black salt

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Adamantius said:

<<< Seriously, though, my experience was that, either due to the salt

itself, and any impurities that may add to its character, or perhaps

to chemicals in the meat itself (which was pork), when reacting with

the salt, created a pretty powerful hydrogen sulfide whiff. The

sausages, which were otherwise unremarkable and made with great care,

frankly stank. I hoped that the fumes would dissipate in cooking. They

didn't.>>>

 

Ok, this makes sense looking at the Wikipedia entry for "Indian black  

salt".

 

"Chemically, black salt is sodium chloride, with iron, sulfurous  

compounds and trace minerals."

 

So yes, that would be the source of the hydrogen sulfide you smell.  

Frankly, it doesn't sound like a good salt for any food. But the  

entry further says "Black salt ... is used as a laxative and  

digestive aid. It is also believed to relieve intestinal gas and  

heartburn." and "Black salt is appreciated by vegans in dishes that  

mimic the taste of eggs". Rotten eggs?

 

Stefan

--------

THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad   Kingdom of Ansteorra

    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas         

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:21:16 -0400

From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin <audreybmorin at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Indian black salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> vegans in dishes that mimic the taste of eggs". Rotten eggs?

 

Not really. Even fresh eggs smell somewhat. I know a lot of kids (and

adults too) who would never, ever bring a hard-boiled egg sandwitch to

school for lunch because of the smell. If the odour is not too strong

it would mimick the smell of real eggs, especially hard-boiled.

 

 

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:40:40 EDT

From: Moramarsh at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Indian black salt

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Indian Black Salt is also sold as non edible black salt.  It is a  blend of

charcoal & salts . It is used for making incense and to reduce the  effects of

poison. Think ingesting activated charcoal and then pumping the  stomach.  As

with asafoetida, it sometmes finds itself into the spice rack.

 

In the new faddish salts of the world, there is a black salt listed.  It is a

smoked natural sea salt. It is quite dark in color and not like the  Incense

black salt.  

 

Do you think some of the historical recipes could have smoked the salt??

 

Mora

 

 

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:49:38 -0600

From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Indian black salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I have some smoked black salt.  I was going to use it to make jerky.  Never

got around to the jerky but still have the salt. The smell is so powerful I

have to wrap it in extra layers to keep the smell from permiating everything

else in that drawer.

 

Shoshanna

 

 

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 12:14:26 -0400

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Colored Salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Deborah Hammons<mistressaldyth at gmail.com> wrote:

<<< Are there documented examples of the

other color salts (not ones that were colored intentionally) used in period?

Aldyth >>>

 

Le Menagier has a recipe for preserving eels with black salt.

http://medievalcookery.com/cgi/display.pl?lmdp:376

 

There is a black salt used in India, so called because of the mineral

content that colors it.  I suspect that the Goodman means unrefined

salt (why waste the more expensive stuff where it won't be seen?)

 

Brighid ni Chiarain

 

 

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 14:58:50 -0700 (PDT)

From: Spices at Spicewells <spicewells at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Colored Salt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Though I haven't done a lot of research on period colored salts, I can relate the following:

 

Himalayan pink salt is actually mined pink without external influences. The salt deposit has a large amount of trace mineral that lends the color.

The black Indian salt is more greyish pink/purple, usually, and has a high sulfur content, which lends to an affinity for eggs.? I've heard from several people it was somewhat an unexpected odor when cooked.

 

Black sea salt, coming from either Hawaii or Cyprus, is actually evaporated with activated charcoal, hence the color is an additive. So, too, the red Hawaiian sea salt, known as Alea, is evaporated with a large amount of red, iron oxide-rich clay.

Grey Sea Salt is sometimes evaporated in green clay lined pools which imbues the greyness to the salt, so the color is an additive process.

 

One good source you might like is www.Saltworks.US.

Caitriona Mac Dhonnachaidh

Spicewell's

 

 

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:50:35 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Colored Salt

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Pliny references black salt.  I believe in this case the color was produced

by manganese in the salt.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:36:41 +0200

From: "Susanne Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Colored Salt

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Living in Austria from prehistoric times to just OOP you would have either

to refine the salt or import sea salt to get white salt, as the natural rock

salt (mined in Hallstatt (hall means salt) and in a lot of other places in

and around Salzburg (again salt,...) and the tyrolean alps comes in various

shades of brown.

 

Later all salt was refined and white, nowadays the slow food gourmets go

back to natural unrefined rocksalt (I have some at home). Himalaya rock salt

is pink in various degrees. I also have black salt (with natural carbon)

 

Kathraina

 

 

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:31:11 -0400 (EDT)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Colored Salt

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

<<< I was looking up a bug bite itchy remedy that I had been given as a gift a

long time ago. The list of ingredients specifically said white salt.  That

sent me down the path of colored salts. Are there documented examples of

the other color salts (not ones that were colored intentionally) used in

period?

Aldyth >>>

 

Well, there's a recipe for coloring salt in the Arabic-language corpus from al-Kitab Wasf al-At'ima al-Mu'tada ("The Book of the Description of Familiar Foods"), 1373.

 

Milh Mutayyab (spiced salt)

 

ORIGINAL RECIPE:

Take medium crystals of rock salt and put them in a new pottery jar and seal its lid. Leave it in the tannur on a mild fire for a whole day, and take it out. When salt is cold, mill it fine.

 

Then take the mentioned spices, namely coriander, cumin, sesame, hemp seed, nigella, poppy seed, fennel, asafoetida root and anise. As for the coriander, sesame, hemp seed, cumin and nigella, they are lightly toasted.  Then the total of these spices should be as much a third of the salt, and they are mixed with it. If you want it musa?tar, add dried thyme leaves to it.

 

It might be made dyed. That is that it is coloured before being cooked, then dried in the shade. Then grind it again and mix the flavourings with it. Among the colours it is dyed, some like red. Sumac juice is extracted and the salt is put in for a day and a night, then it is taken out and dried as mentioned. As for yellow, it is with saffron, or with the water in which thyme has been steeped. The green is chard water And the blue in water in which a little indigo has been steeped. And in this way, the colour you want.

So understand that.

 

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

 

<the end>



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