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roast-pork-msg - 1/21/07

 

Cooking pork roasts. Medieval recipes.

 

NOTE: See also the files: roast-meats-msg, pork-msg, pig-to-sausag-art, Whole-Pig-Fst-art, whole-pig-msg, organ-meats-msg, larding-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 05:38:02 -0500

From: Maddie Teller-Kook <meadhbh at io.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Spices and sensitive palates

 

My favorite recipe using pork is the Arista from "The Fine art of

Italian Cooking" by Bugliali.  He aludes to this dish being from the

15th Century tho he doesn't show the actual documentation. I put this

recipe in the 'period=ish' category.  Basically, it is a pork loin,

seasoned with:

 

slice 10 garlic cloves and mix with salt (I use kosher salt), freshly

ground black pepper, fresh rosemary.  Mix these together. split the

loin, put half on the bottom half of the loin, add 10 whole black

peppercorns... put the top half of the loin on top, tie with butchers

cord.  Cut a number of slits all over the roast. Take the rest of the

mixture and coat the roast pushing the seasoning (especially the garlic

slivers) into these slits.  Drizzle some olive oil in a pan, place the

pan in a preheated oven (to 350 deg. F) for a few minutes to heat the

oil. Add meat to the pan.  Cook until done.  I prefer mine still juicy

but not pink.  Slice thin and serve as part of an antipasto. This is one

of those meat dishes that tastes just as good cold as hot.

 

meadhbh

 

 

Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:23:49 -0400

From: Aine of Wyvernwood <sybella at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Pork Roasting

 

My lord, one of the ways I check for temperature - and yes I own a meattemp

thing, it's here ..... somewhere.... - is to just stick my favorite knife down

into the thickest part, juice will run out...the color is one way, another is to

let the knife sit there a minute or so, pull it out. If the blade is hot enough

to ''burn'' yer finger then most likely the inside is done as well.  tis a silly trick but useful over a campfire, when one cannot shred, or slice or whatever...

so far, it has worked everytime...note the so far...

 

aine

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:09:57 -0400 (EDT)

From: Tyrca at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Spices and sensitive palates

 

Tyrca here.

     All this discussion about pork roasts is about to send me to the store,

and see if the pork prices are somewhere in my wallet range (yum!)

     When we were in Germany about 5 years ago, a German friend of mine told

me the best to cook a pork roast.  I have not seen a recipe, this was really

just discussion that I later took to the kitchen and tried out.

     In a large roaster pan or dutch oven, place roast, two large onions

chopped, about 8 juniper berries, and a small handful of caraway seeds, then

fill pan with 2 or 3 inches of water, and roast in a 350 degree F oven,

basting periodically.  My favorite part is the way the onion-flavored water

causes the top of the roast to brown and crackle as it cooks.  I have never

had a sandwich made from this roast, because no matter how many (or how few)

people, I feed, there are never any left-overs.

 

Tyrca

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 15:34:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Cormarye

 

Michael F. Gunter wrote:

> Hmmm! What source is Cormarye from? It sounds like it would be a perfect first

> course for my 12th Night feast.  If I can get pork butt fairly inexpensively

> I think it would be wonderful for the "Commoners Course".

>

> Gunthar

 

Curye on Inglysche --

 

"IV. The Forme of Cury, #54:

Cormarye. Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peper and

garlec ygrounde, in rede wyne; medle alle 6ise togyder and salt it. Take

loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf,

and lay it in the sawse. Roost it whan 6ou wilt, & kepe 6at 6at fallith

6erfro in the rostyng and see6 it in a possynet with faire broth, &

serue it forth wi6 6e roost anoon."

 

I see this as a marinated roast, with the marinade and the pan juices

made into a sauce with additional broth. It might be the ultimate

fighter's dish.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 09:06:35 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Pork Roasting

 

Mike C. Baker wrote:

 

>  Adamantius (Philip & Susan Troy) wrote:

> > On a slightly tangential note, I frequently serve roast

> > pork loins at events, and refuse to cook them to the

> > bone-dry plywood stage almost invariably called for in most

> > cookbooks.

>

> Covered pan? "Bagged"? Laboriously basted?

 

I roast a pork loin in several different ways, but I think my favorite

method for event purposes is a simple, real roast, or as close as it

gets in a modern kitchen. Generally this means I sear the meat in very

hot saute pans or on the infamous pancake griddle, season them with

coarse salt and freshly ground pepper, and roast them in a 400 degree F.

oven. A few months ago we served a feast with about six or eight meat

dishes, so we cut whole, boned loins into four (roughly two-pound)

portions, first cutting them in half into two segments, and then

carefully splitting each half so there was fat and lean in each piece.

We rolled and tied these, and, when cooked, they sliced into nice little

2.5 inch medallions. It would have been considered just slightly skimpy

but for the presence of haggis, saumon gentil, cig oen a mel (Welsh

honey-basted meat, in this case chicken), mussels, and mincemeat chewets

made with emphasis on the meat. This is in addition to egg, cheese, and

vegetable dishes.

 

The pork got et with Sauce Robert, made from caramelized shredded

onions, extra-fine matzoh [cake] meal toasted brown (an excellent source

for extra-fine bread crumbs, BTW), white wine vinegar, Dijon mustard,

reduced brown pork stock made from the roasted bones of the pork loins,

and the deglazed pan juices from the meat. This would be more in the

Taillevent tradition than the La Varenne style of this sauce, which

apparently features butter and capers, which is equally good, but

different.  

 

> My favorite method for pork loin involves a paper bag,

> oil, spices, and long, slow, roasting. Considering other

> uses of parchment in "antique" cookery, d'ya think that

> a parchment envelope could be used for the same purpose?

> (I've been cooking many years, but am still trying to

> learn more about traditional / "ancient" techniques...)

 

I'm more inclined to roast the meat quickly, but this is largely a

policy adopted from the need to free up not-quite adequate oven space at

events. Both methods work well, and the advantage of a slow roast is

that there is less shrinkage of the meat as it cooks. My major objection

to the methods involving bags is that the meat tends to steam or braise

to some extent, and I do expect there to be a difference between

something that is dry-roasted in an oven, and braised in a pot. Many

people have no problem with this, though.

 

> > Trichinosis parasites and their eggs are killed at

> > 137 degrees F. internal temperature, at which point

> > the meat is still pretty rare. I generally cook it to

> > an internal temperature of 150 degrees, technically

> > medium. Some people do become alarmed in spite of

> > this, and have been known to complain that the meat

> > wasn't sufficiently dead to their taste. It has juice.

> > It has flavor. Bad cook!

>

> As a relative dabbler and culinary heretic, I do not even

> own a meat thermometer. In particular with the "bagged"

> pork loin, experience, proper timing and oven temperature,

> and observation (is the surface of the roast a uniform

> nut-brown? are the carved slices / pulled shreds tender and

> moist, juicy but without bright pink color or running blood?)

> tell me everything that I need to know, at least for my own

> consumption. (Opening the bag before the cooking time has

> completed is one of the most certain ways to spoil this

> particular dish.)

>

> Given that there is still some risk, just how important is

> the use of thermometric measurement as opposed to eyeball

> and experience?

 

The answer is right there in the question...yes, there is still some

risk when you don't use a thermometer. But, there is also some risk when

you do, if it isn't properly calibrated, or if you misread it, or if you

don't do any of the various things that would catch temperature

variances between, say, the front and the back of the oven, or top or

bottom shelves. If you use a thermometer, you need to be sure you use it

correctly. For the truly experenced, by which I mean, say, a roast cook

for a large hotel or restaurant, (and I myself don't fall into this

category) a thermometer might not be necessary. For ordinary humans it

seems to be quite helpful in avoiding both danger and embarrassment. I

like the little quick-register thermometers that look like a ball-point

pen with a dial the size of a nickel on the end. They cost anywhere from

5 to 10 bucks, but are worth it, in my opinion.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:09:43 -0700

To: "Mark Harris" <mark_harris at risc.sps.mot.com>

From: jtn at cottagesoft.com (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re: Cormarye

 

>Greetings Katerine,

>

>I would love to get this recipe/redaction from you, either by email

>or on the list. It sounds good and from the name I assume it is

>medieval.

 

Here it is, as copied from my recipes booklet; I hope you enjoy it as much

as I do!

 

Cormarye

(Curye on Inglysch, Forme of Cury 54, 109)

 

This is another, very different roast pork with sauce.  It is almost more

marinaded than covered, and the sauce is a very different, more savory

sauce.  This is probably my favorite roast pork dish.

 

Receipt:

Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peprr and garlec

ygrounde, in rede wyn;  medle alle thise togyder and salt it.  Take loynes

of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it

in the saws.  Roost it whan thou wilt, & kepe that that fallith therfro in

the rostyng and seeth it in a possynet with faire broth, & serue it forth

with the roost anoon.

 

Take coriander, caraway ground small, pepper, and ground garlic, in red

wine; mix all these together and salt it.  Take raw loins of pork and flay

off the skin, and prick it well with a knife, and lay it in the sauce.

Roast it when you will, and keep what falls from it in the roasting and

boil it in a small pot with fair broth, and serve it forth with the roast

anon.

 

Amounts as I make it:

3 lb bone-in pork loin roast    1 tsp salt

1 tsp ground coriander          1 clove garlic, minced fine

1/4 tsp caraway, ground         1/2 bottle red wine

1/2 tsp pepper                  1 c chicken broth

 

Step-by-step:

1.  In a roasting pan, combine coriander, caraway, pepper, salt, garlic, and

       wine.

2.  Prick skin of meat; add to roasting pan.

3.  Preheat oven to 450.

4.  Put in roast; reduce heat immediately to 350.

5.  Roast the meat in the sauce for 30 to 35 minutes per pound.

6.  Remove from oven, and take meat out of pan.

7.  Add broth to sauce and drippings, and simmer briefly.

8.  Slice roast and place in sauce.

 

Notes:

For some reason I cannot fathom, every time I've had this away from home,

they've served the meat without the sauce.  Error!  Don't do this.  The

sauce is wonderful.

 

 

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:59:32 -0500

From: "Gedney, Jeff" <Gedney at executone.com>

Subject: RE: SC - for bread-smearing

 

> Oh goody, the doctor just told my wife she is to eat at least a clove of

> garlic each day, appropriately mixed into some other food.  Since she

> likes garlic anyway, this will be great.

 

Last night I had a perennial favorite of the house:

A pork roast, rolled in a dry marinade of spices, dry mustard, garlic,

and salt, and cooked in a roasting pan filled with baby carrots, onion

quarters, potatoes and whole, unpeeled cloves of garlic ( toss the

veggies with olive oil and salt as there will not be enough fat from the

pork for the veg). I used 2 whole heads of garlic, for the four of us,

and the first thing finished were the roasted vegetables ( Actually the

garlic - which had roasted in the pan and fried in the fat and oil,

yielding a sweet and candy like brown confection, with a chewy

taffy-like texture -- WOW. Next were the caramelized carrots, there is

nothing I can say here... just DEVINE)

I know the recipe is OOP, but...

You know you are doing something right when your 5 year old and your 9

year old chant in unison "More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More

Garlic!!"

 

Brandu

 

 

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:40:12 -0500 (EST)

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - for bread-smearing

 

<< You know you are doing something right when your 5 year old and your 9

year old chant in unison "More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More

Garlic!!"

  >>

     (Grin) Sounds like my own rallying cry.............

     My mom's take on pork roast is yummy also, even for me, and I'm not

usually too much of a meat fan. Salt the roast, rub generously with rosemary,

dot with garlic slices (*LOTS* of garlic slices......... ;-) ), and half

cover with port wine. Roast, uncovering long enough for the meat to brown.

Heavenly!

 

  Ldy Diana

 

 

Subject: Re: Re: SC - pork in coriander sauce recipe

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:19:35 EDT

From: Gerekr at aol.com

To: stefan at texas.net

 

from Pleyn Delit, 1st ed.

-----

75 Cormarye

Take Colyandre, Caraway smalle gronden, Powdor of Peper and garlec

ygronde in red wyne; medle alle [th]ise togyder and salt it; take loyn of

Pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it in

the sawse; roost [th]erof whay [th]u wilt, & kepe [th]at fallith

[th]erfro in the rosting and see[th] it in a possynet with faire broth, &

serve it forth with [th]e roost anoon.  FC 53

 

Roast Pork with Caraway Sauce

5-7 lb pork loin roast

2-3 cloves garlic, crushed

1/2 to 1 tsp each coriander and caraway seed

1 cup red wine (or 1/2 cup, if using a clay baker)

1/2 tsp salt

1/4 tsp pepper

 

Ideally, use a coffee grinder for grinding seeds.  If you have none, use

a mortar, a blender or a rolling pin, with the seeds between two sheets

of waxed paper.  When they are crushed, mix with all other sauce

ingredients, preferably in a blender.  The more finely the spices and

garlic can be ground, the more effective the sauce will be.

 

     Prick the loin of pork all over and place in a rack over a roasting

pan. Pour the sauce over it and roast in the usual way, basting with the

juices in the pan from time to time plus, if it seems desirable, wine.

(You may, of course, adapt this to clay=-baking procedures, if youhave a

clay baker.)   When roast is done, pour off the drippings into a saucepan

and add a small amount of broth or stock (chicken stock, preferably - or

broth made from pork bones).  Stir and bring to a boil; thicken if you

wish. Serve as a sauce for the pork.

----

This is really simple, really easy, really good. "Roast as usual"-- see

Joy of Cooking or something to calculate how hot and how long...

Chimene

 

 

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:41:19 -0230

From: Mark Simms <msimms at roadrunner.nf.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Introducing myself to the list

 

Phillppa,

 

> Got a couple questions- what are-

> 9.  A bourbelier of pork, then

 

Essentially a basted pork roast.  I've seen two recipes for it, one from

the Medieval Kitchen (page 108, recipe 52, from Le Viandier) and one in

the Miscellany (http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/meat.html#6, from

Le Menagier de Paris).  I used a slightly modified redaction from the

Miscellany.

 

Due to that #$#% burning down of the original event hall I couldn't cook

the roast there, but had to prepare it before hand at home, and then run

across town and pick it up when it came time to serve it (I didn't put

the roast up on a rack, and ended up with something very akin to a

stewed meat - the end result was delicious, as the roast had been

bubbling in wine for two days :)  The only unfortunate part was the

curse of Bappy being called down upon us, but we weathered that fairly

well.

 

<snip>

 

Donal

- --

Mark Simms                           Engineering Student, Class of 2002

Memorial University of Newfoundlan   Vice President, 6th St. John's

 

 

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:33:18 -0800

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at home.com>

Subject: SC - Requested Recipes- Pork Roast/Warden Pie-LONG!!

 

I mentioned some recipes we used at the Maison deSteele Thanksgiving, and

got requests for the recipes, sources, etc. THL Gillian of Lynnhaven

provided me with the all of those tonight. Let me see if I can get them to

look as pretty here as she has on the paper that she gave me.  Enjoy!

*************************************************************

Pork Roast with Apricot & Prune Stuffing

by THL Gillian of Lynnhaven

 

"Allowes de Mutton: Take faire mutton of the Buttes, and kutte hit in the

maner of stekes; And then take faire rawe parcelly, and oynons shred smale,

yolkes of eron sodden hard, and mary or suet; hew all thes smale togidre,

and then case thereto pouder of ginger, and saffron, and stere hem togidre

with thi honde, and ley hem vppe- on the stekes al abrode; and cast

there-to salt, and rolle hem togidre, and put hem on a spitte and roste hem

until the be ynough."    "Take a Thousand Eggs or More",  vol. 1, Cindy

Renfrow, p. 107 (from the Harleian Ms 4016)

 

"A-nother manere: Take Fygys, Roysonys, and Porke, and a lytel brede

y-ground y-fere; tak hym vppe, and purt Pepir y-now ther-to, and Maces,

Clowys, and make thin in cofyn, and outte thin comade ther-on." "Take a

Thousand Eggs or More",  vol. 2, Cindy Renfrow, p. 215 (from the Harleian

Ms 279)

 

While not exact, the following recipe uses the same general idea of rolling

a roast with fruit, spices and breadcrumbs.  There are other examples using

apricots and prunes instead of figs and raisins.

 

1   3 lb Pork Roast (loin or shoulder)

4 ft. Butchers string

  Stuffing:

1/4  cup Apricots, dried and diced

2 Tbs. Prunes, dried, pitted and diced

3 Tbs. Triple Sec (orange liqueur)

3 Tbs. Onions, chopped

1 cup herbed dry Stuffing (Pepperidge Farm)

1/4 cup Chicken Broth

3 Tbs. Butter, melted

2 tsp. Orange peel, freshly grated

1/2 tsp. Pouder Fort*

 

  In a large saucepan, combine apricots, prunes, orange peel and pouder

fort with the Triple Sec. Heat to boiling, stirring frequently. Once

boiling, remove from the heat and let it sit, covered, for a half an hour.

Meanwhile, saut the onion in one tablespoon of butter, until the onion is

translucent. Transfer the onions to a large mixing bowl. Add in the fruit

mixture and the dry stuffing crumbs. Mix thoroughly. Add the rest of the

butter and the broth. Toss together until everything is moist.

 

Take the pork roast and lay it out on a cutting board. Cut the roast open

and lay it out flat in a long rectangle. Spoon the stuffing evenly over the

roast, leaving about a half inch bare at the edges. Roll the roast up with

the stuffing within and tie it closed with butchers string.

 

Place the rolled roast in a pan and cover it. Roast in a 350 degree oven

for about 30 minutes. Then uncover the roast and continue roasting it for

another 30 minutes or until a meat thermometer registers 170 degrees.

 

Serves 6

 

*Poudre fort is a medieval spice combination of pepper and sweet spices. To

mix your own combine, 1/8 tsp. Black pepper, 1/4 tsp. Cinnamon, 1/8 tsp.

Powered cloves, 1/8 tsp. Ginger, and 1/8 tsp. Mace. Adjust the amounts to

taste. The flavor should be sweetly spicy but with a bite.

 

***************************************************************************

 

<snip of Warden Pie recipe. See fruit-pie-msg>

 

 

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:55:40 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - First Feast

 

At 5:40 PM +1100 1/18/00, Ray Nevin wrote:

>I'm after suggestions for a red meat dish from french sources

>preferably (my copy of goodman of paris has some pages missing and I

>don't have easy acces to other sources including web (because the

>intenet hours get used up by my little brother).

 

How about this one from Menagier de Paris? It should be wild boar,

but is good with an ordinary pork roast.

 

Bourbelier of Wild Pig

Menagier p. M-23

 

First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and

stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made

of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and

nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling

use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up

together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it

later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not). [end of

original]

 

3 lb pork roast      1/8 t cinnamon 1/2 t pepper (rounded)      1 c wine

about 60 whole cloves 1/8 t cloves  1/8 t nutmeg  1/2 c vinegar

1/4 t ginger  1/4 t grains of paradise    (verjuice)

 

Preheat oven to 450 degrees. Stud roast with whole cloves, baste with a

mixture of the remaining ingredients, then put into oven. Immediately

after putting it in, turn oven down to 350. Roast meat 1 hour 45

minutes (for this size roast), basting every 15 minutes.

 

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:17:51 EST

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Pork or Boar in the Holy Land

 

dcushenan at bfree.on.ca writes:

<< I want to serve pork but am unable to find a source that is was available.

I fond earlier references to it in the fourth century but not the twelfth can

someone help. >>

 

Well, it's not the Holy Land, but Alexander Neckam gives a recipe of sorts

for pork in his 12th century travelogue of London and Paris.  He says, "A

roast of pork is prepared diligently on a grid, frequently basted, and laid

on the grid just as the hot coals cease to smoke. Let condiment be avoided

other than pure salt or a simple garlic sauce."   (Daily Living in the

Twelfth Century: Based on the Observations of Alexander Neckam in London and

Paris, Urban Tigner Holmes, Jr., 1952).

 

Brangwayna Morgan

 

 

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 04:46:57 +1000

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe

 

Good Fortune the List,

 

last night I was testing a recipe i intend to use for a feast, ie

Cormary - roast loin of Pork.  I can hear some of you asking for the

recipe already so:

 

'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground

garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it. Take raw pork

loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the

sauce.  Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as

it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with

the roast' (Forme of Curye).

 

Well, I basically read this as make a marinade of ground coriander &

caraway seeds, crushed garlic, pepper & wine.  Now, I wasn't sure

whether 'pepper powder' had any particular significance: ie was this

referring to white ground pepper for example (since other recipes I

have seen specify black pepper).  After pondering, I thru some black

peppercorns in my mortar as well as some white pepper & then ground

the caraway & coriander all together.

 

Liking the faint sweet aftertaste that port gives to meet, I chose

port as the red wine.  So I mixed the spices & garlic together in

that.

 

I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes,

this required the meat to be cooked in the wine.  Now, in the respect

of the feast I am cooking for, the site is only a few minutes from my

home & my programmable fan-forced oven . . .  I decided that I wanted

the meat to cook in a manner that required minimal attention (as I

wouldn't be there to baste), but would achieve reasonable results.  So

I chose to bake the roast in a baking bag.  This kept much of the

moisture in the bag, sort of self-basted & was fine to use it to

marinade too.

 

The results were _really_ tasty.  The meat was cooked for a couple of

hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-).

The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was

very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat.

 

My only problem was with the sauce.  Now, because I was cooking in the

bake bag, I did not lose any of the red wine.  In fact, the meat juices

drained out into the bag & so I had almost double the liquid I started

with.  This meant there was no reason to add the 'good broth' as

specified in the recipe <g>.  

 

But I felt I _did_ need to thicken the sauce since it was very liquidy

I had managed to not 'lose' any of it in the cooking process.  

<snip>

 

Now my question relates to how to improve this.  Would I have been

better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up?

Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior

to adding the sauce?  

 

The other option that I have, is not to add anything. Basically, just

slice the meat, then tip the sauce over it & give it a chance to soak

up a little of the sauce prior to serving.  This will mean that the it

will still be very liquidy (taste is fine) and i'll probably need to

serve the meat in platters with lips to stop overflow, but is my

preferred option.

 

So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening

the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other

recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce.  The sauce itself is

really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty.

 

Thanks,

Lorix

 

 

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:06:22 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe

 

Lorix wrote:

> So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening

> the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other

> recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce.  The sauce itself is

> really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty.

 

Lorix,

I made Cormarye for our Coronation Feast last fall.  The redaction I did is as

follows:

 

 

1 heaping tsp. ground caraway seed      1 Tbsp. minced garlic

1 heaping tsp. Coriander                1 tsp salt

1/2 tsp. Pepper                         1 Cup red wine (I used Burgundy)

 

1 1/2 # Pork roast

 

Use 1/3 to half the sauce as a marinade, and marinate the roast for several

hours, then cook at 325-350 degrees until done (1 hour or so).  Use the pan

juices with the remaining marinade mixture to make a sauce, reducing it to half

its volume.  Serve the roast sliced with the sauce over it.

 

Notes:

 

1.  The only modification I have made to this recipe is that I have marinated

the pork overnight in the wine/seasoning mixture.  Pan juices were added to more

of the marinade to make the sauce.  In the interest of serving safe food, we

used fresh marinade for this purpose.

 

I didn't try to thicken it with anything.  Rather, I reduced the juices +

marinade and reduced them by half.  This created a very nice, flavorful sauce.

 

I believe that some of the recipes I've seen that used bread crumbs also

suggested straining the finished product to get out things like lumps....you

could have tried something like that, I guess.

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:59:59 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe

 

Lorix posted a recipe for roasted pork:

> 'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground

> garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it.  Take raw pork

> loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the

> sauce.  Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as

> it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with

> the roast' (Forme of Curye).

 

> Liking the faint sweet aftertaste that port gives to meet, I chose

> port as the red wine.  So I mixed the spices & garlic together in

> that.

 

Why port? I thought port was a fortified wine? This I think would give

a stronger taste than simply a red wine. Although if the sauce is

thinner than wanted and you need to add thickener, a stronger tasting

wine might be preferable.

> I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes,

> this required the meat to be cooked in the wine.  

 

But does it? It says lay it in the sauce. It doesn't specifically say

to roast it in the sauce, does it? Couldn't "lay it in the sauce" simply

be to marinate it? And then it is removed and put on a spit to roast.

Would they have used the word roast to mean stew it or boil it in the

sauce?

 

If you are cooking the meat in the sauce, why say "and save what falls

from the meat as it roasts and boil it...". The stuff that falls from

the meat would already fall in the sauce and it would be difficult to

prevent it from doing so anyway. I think this is saying take care to

catch the drippings in a pan, so you can add them to the broth to make

the sauce later.

> The results were _really_ tasty.  The meat was cooked for a couple of

> hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-).

> The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was

> very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat.

 

Yes, it sounds wonderful.

  

> Now my question relates to how to improve this. Would I have been

> better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up?

> Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior

> to adding the sauce?  

 

I think another alternative would be to boil down the juice/drippings/

wine mixture until it thickens some. Without adding anything. In your

case, this may not be practical because of time contraints, though.

 

Stefan

- --

Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:10:36 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe

 

Lorix wrote:

> 'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground

> garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it.  Take raw pork

> loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the

> sauce.  Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as

> it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with

> the roast' (Forme of Curye).

>

> Well, I basically read this as make a marinade of ground coriander &

> caraway seeds, crushed garlic, pepper & wine. Now, I wasn't sure

> whether 'pepper powder' had any particular significance:  ie was this

> referring to white ground pepper for example (since other recipes I

> have seen specify black pepper).  After pondering, I thru some black

> peppercorns in my mortar as well as some white pepper & then ground

> the caraway & coriander all together.

 

I think the earliest English reference I've seen to white pepper is 17th

century; unless I'm mistaken, most of the references to [specifically]

black pepper that I've seen have been to distinguish between it and long

pepper, and that, usually in English translation. Usually, IIRC, it's

just "pepper" or "pouder of pepper".

 

> I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes,

> this required the meat to be cooked in the wine. Now, in the respect

> of the feast I am cooking for, the site is only a few minutes from my

> home & my programmable fan-forced oven . . .  I decided that I wanted

> the meat to cook in a manner that required minimal attention (as I

> wouldn't be there to baste), but would achieve reasonable results.  So

> I chose to bake the roast in a baking bag.  This kept much of the

> moisture in the bag, sort of self-basted & was fine to use it to

> marinade too.

 

I wonder about the interpretation to cook it in the wine. I always

interpreted the instructions to mean that you marinate the meat, then

roast it on a spit in front of a fire, over a drip pan, so you can save

that which droppeth ;  ). You then reduce the pan drippings with

additional broth as needed until you get a flavorful, but not

excessively spicy, pan liquor. Does meat brown in a baking bag, and

doesn't the baking bag defeat the purpose, to some extent, of your nifty

convection oven? I'm not sure how necessary it is to worry about

basting; unless pork loin is a different cut of meat in different

locations, the basic primary cut has a layer of fairly firm fat on the

back, and if you roast it fat side up, and don't overcook it, it

shouldn't require any basting, except perhaps with the marinade for

additional flavor as it roasts. I ask about whether the designation

"loin" is different where you are because in the US, pork loins also

tend to have a moderate amount of fat on the back, but no skin. By any

chance did you use what we call fresh ham, or was this a leaner hog with

the skin still on it?

 

> The results were _really_ tasty.  The meat was cooked for a couple of

> hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-).

> The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was

> very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat.

 

Yum. I've always loved cormarye...

> My only problem was with the sauce.  Now, because I was cooking in the

> bake bag, I did not lose any of the red wine. Infact, the meat juices

> drained out into the bag & so I had almost double the liquid I started

> with.  This meant there was no reason to add the 'good broth' as

> specified in the recipe <g>.

 

 

> But I felt I _did_ need to thicken the sauce since it was very liquidy

> I had managed to not 'lose' any of it in the cooking process.  Now, I

> chose to use dried breadcrumbs, but I did not have enough time to

> really cook them into the sauce as it needs to do to dissolve & be

> less lumpy.  I used breadcrumbs as I felt they would not change the

> taste of the sauce in any way, but _would_ thicken it (seeing as how

> there is no provision for thickening in the recipe. Thicken it they

> did quite satisfactorily.  However _I_ felt that the appearance &

> texture of the resulting sauce was too lumpy (faint sort of sandy

> texture), although very tasty (my guinea pigs said I was being to

> sensitive).  Now, as I was trying to imitate the time I would have

> available at the feast, I cooked the sauce as much as I would be able

> to at the feast, which means I won't have time to break the

> breadcrumbs down.

 

I suspect, given the flavors and colors involved, that your best bet

might be dry, toasted brown bread, if you're going that route. Not

toasted bread crumbs, but rather bread grilled fairly slowly until dry

throughout, and browned but not burned, similar to some of the croutons

used in things like French Onion Soup, or eaten with bouilliabaise.

However, I'm picturing the sauce made by roasting the meat on a spit,

with the marinade (and accompanying solids, crushed garlic and spices,

etc.) and don't see this producing an unattractively thin sauce. The

drippings, being a boiled semi-emulsion of fat, garlic, ground spices,

and what the English used to call "gravy", i.e. "jus", further reduced

with added stock, itself containing at least some gelatin, ought to be

pretty syrupy in consistency when done, even without bread crumbs. And

if you're worried about a sandy texture, well, I'm not sure that's

avoidable, given the ground spices and crushed garlic, unless you strain

it all out, which would be a shame.  

> Now my question relates to how to improve this. Would I have been

> better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up?

> Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior

> to adding the sauce?

>

> The other option that I have, is not to add anything. Basically, just

> slice the meat, then tip the sauce over it & give it a chance to soak

> up a little of the sauce prior to serving.  This will mean that the it

> will still be very liquidy (taste is fine) and i'll probably need to

> serve the meat in platters with lips to stop overflow, but is my

> preferred option.

 

I agree. As I say, the sauce should probably be a slightly syrupy gravy,

thickened with the ground spices and garlic. You might also add just

enough to moisten the meat, then pass additional sauce in a sauceboat of

some kind. This dish may well have been eaten on trenchers anyway, with

the uppermost layers of the gravy-soaked trencher spooned up with the

meat, "accidentally". Nothing so gross as actually eating the trencher,

of course ;  ) .

 

> So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening

> the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other

> recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce.  The sauce itself is

> really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much garlic did you use? If you use enough to

turn the marinade into a  thin puree, the amount that sticks to the meat

when roasting, and falls off in the cooking, should cook down into a

slightly thickened sauce. I've had stews thickened with nothing but

pureed garlic, which, when cooked enough, is mild and sublimely rich.

 

Adamantius

 

 

From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Home from Pennsic also + upcoming feast stuff

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:00:47 -0400

 

    Well, I generally recommend soaking wild hog in a mild salt / vinegar

solution overnight to get some of the gaminess out, hit it with some dry

rub, and smoke it long & slow. If it's store bought, don't bother with the

soaking, though . . . it's bland enough as is.

    If you know anyone who does custom carpentry, snag some hardwood

trimmings (walnut, cherry, etc) instead of the usual hickory or mesquite

chips, and soak 'em overnight. I just did a brisket, a pork butt, and a

turkey breast in my smoker the other day with cherrywood, and it turned out

really well. Green applewood is great, too.

    BTW, I've found that for smoking meat, chunk charcoal (rather than

briquettes) gives a MUCH better flavor. It burns a bit hotter, so you don't

add as much to start, and you have to add chunks more often, but the results

are markedly superior.

 

    Sieggy

 

 

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:19:46 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cormarye Recipe...

 

OK....here 'tis:

 

54.  Cormarye.  Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, poudour of

peper and garlec ygrounde, in rede wyne;medle all thise togyder and salt

it.  Take loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it well with

a knyf, and lay it in the sawse.  Roost it whan thou wilt, and kepe that

that fallity therefro in the rostyng and seeth it in a possynet with

faire broth, and serue it forthe with the roost anoon.

 

54.  Cormarye (Roast Pork in a Wine Sauce).  Take coriander, ground

caraway seed, pepper and ground garlic, in red wine; mix all these

together and salt it.  Take loins of raw pork and cut off the skin and

prick it well with a knife, and put it in the sauce.  Roast it when you

will, and do it properly and boil it [the juices/sauce] in a small pot

with a good broth and serve it forth with the roast.  (Forme of Cury

from Curye on Inglysch)

 

1 heaping tsp. ground caraway seed         1 Tbsp. minced garlic

1 heaping tsp. Coriander                   1 tsp salt

1/2 tsp. Pepper                            1 Cup red wine (I used Burgundy)

 

1 1/2 lb. Pork roast

 

Use 1/3 to half the sauce as a marinade, and marinate the roast for

several hours, then cook at 325-350 degrees until done (1 hour or so).

Use the pan juices with the remaining marinade mixture to make a sauce,

reducing it to half its volume.  Serve the roast sliced with the sauce

over it.

 

Notes:

 

1.  The only modification I have made to this recipe is that I have

marinated the pork overnight in the wine/seasoning mixture.  Pan juices

were added to more of the marinade to make the sauce.  In the interest

of serving safe food, we used fresh marinade for this purpose.

 

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any questions!

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:21:36 -0700 (PDT)

From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pork Ribs

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I'm kinda partial to basting them liberally while roasting with  

Cormarye sauce:

 

Curye on Inglysch p. 109 (Forme of Cury no. 54)

 

Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peper and garlec  

ygrounde, in rede wyne; medle alle + ise togyder and salt it. Take  

loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf,

and lay it in the sawse. Roost it whan + ou wilt, & kepe + at fallith +  

erfro in the rostyng and see+ it in a possynet with faire broth, and  

serue it forth wi+ + e roost anoon.

 

My translation:

Take coriander, caraway ground small, powder of pepper and ground  

garlic in red wine.  Mix all this together and salt it.  Take raw loins  

of pork and remove the skin, and prick it well with a knife and lay it

in the sauce.  Roast it when thou wilt, and save the drippings.  Boil

the drippings in a pan with good broth and serve it with the roast.

 

My recipe:

 

1 TBS whole coriander seed

1 TBS whole caraway seed

1 TBS minced garlic

1 tsp. Ground black pepper

1 tsp. Salt

2 cups sweet red wine

 

Marinate pork in sauce several hours, or overnight, then baste  

frequently while roasting.  Save the drippings to mix with 2 cups of  

chicken broth.  Boil until reduced by half, and serve with the pork.

 

Pat Griffin

Lady Anne du Bosc

known as Mordonna the Cook

www.mordonnasplace.com

 

 

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:54:12 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Potluck, revisited

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

phlip at 99main.com writes:

> Now, shall we tell each other what we brought to the Potluck? I think

> the folks at home might enjoy the dishes- I certainly did ;-)

 

I brought over a boneless pork roast that had been marinated in

bitter orange juice and then dredged in a mix of bread crumbs, flour,

nutmeg, ginger, pepper, and sugar. Roasted several hours at 225 until

done. Then I froze it fo safe keeping and transported it frozen to the

War. Phlip warmed it up over her fire that evening.

 

The recipe is from Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook, Section iv,

[page 136 in the Prospect Books facsimile edition] titled:

"The rarest ways of dressing of all manner of Roast Meats..."

Divers ways of breading or dredging of Meats and Fowl,

6. For pigs, grated bread, flour, nutmeg, ginger, peper, sugar; but first baste

it with the jucye of lemons , or oranges, and the yolks of eggs.

 

I skipped the eggs, since I was marinating for three days in advance of

roasting.

 

Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:51:33 -0400

From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

The recipe is From Cariadocs Mescellany):

 

Bourbelier of Wild Pig

Menagier p. M-23

 

First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and

stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made

of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and

nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling

use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up

together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it

later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not).

 

3 lb pork roast

about 60 whole cloves

1/4 t ginger

1/8 t cinnamon

1/8 t cloves

1/4 t grains of paradise

1/2 t pepper (rounded)

1/8 t nutmeg

(verjuice)

1 c wine

1/2 c vinegar

 

Preheat oven to 450deg. . Stud roast with whole cloves, baste with a

mixture of the remaining ingredients, then put into oven. Immediately

after putting it in, turn oven down to 350deg. . Roast meat 1 hour 45

minutes (for this size roast), basting every 15 minutes.

 

However, while I noted that the translation of the original says "Long

pepper", the redaction says "Grains of Paradise". I'm assuming either

will work, and that likely the redaction reflected what was in

Cariadoc's and Elizabeth's cupboard at the time (been there, done that

;-)

 

Anybody think there'll be a qualitative difference?

 

And, wondering if this particular mix might be usable as a powdre forte.

 

Anybody?

 

Planning on this for dinner tomorrow night...

--

Saint Phlip

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:25:19 -0400

From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

Yummmm....

I wonder about the initial plunge into boiling water, though.  What would be

the possible reasons for that? A brief sort of par-boiling for a chunk o'

pig with a fatty coating? Some other reason, more specific to it being from

wild boar?

--Maire, curious....< < < < <

 

SPECULATION:  sanitizes the outside of the flesh after butchering . . .

removes the bits and parts left on it.  Plus, it tightens the skin  

and flesh to hold onto the cloves when they are stuck in.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:25:19 -0400

From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

The recipe is From Cariadoc;s Mescellany):

 

Bourbelier of Wild Pig

Menagier p. M-23

 

First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and

stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made

of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and

nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling

use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up

together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it

later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not).

<<<SNIP>>>

 

However, while I noted that the translation of the original says "Long

pepper", the redaction says "Grains of Paradise". I'm assuming either

will work, and that likely the redaction reflected what was in

Cariadoc's and Elizabeth's cupboard at the time (been there, done that

;-)

 

Anybody think there'll be a qualitative difference?

 

And, wondering if this particular mix might be usable as a powdre forte.

 

Anybody? < < < < < <

 

The "grain" in the original is very likely grains of paradise, and Cariadoc

ommitted long pepper from redaction due to relative scarcity at time of

recipe development.  They are much more available these days.  The pungent

aromatic and flavor elements of long pepper will definitely add another

dimension to your baste.  When boiled for the sauce, you would get a bit

more heat from the long pepper, I would expect.

 

As for powder forte, for this collection of spices, I personally would make

sure to get the long pepper and try it out.  It has lots of elements that

I've seen in others' blends.  Mace is the only one not in this that others

seem to add in some amount about like their cloves.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:26:33 -0400

From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On 9/15/06, Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com> wrote:

> I wonder about the initial plunge into boiling water, though.  What would be

> the possible reasons for that? A brief sort of par-boiling for a chunk o'

> pig with a fatty coating? Some other reason, more specific to it  

> being from wild boar?

> --Maire, curious....

 

Well, first off, if the translation's correct, it's Wild Pig, not Wild

Boar. There's a significant different between the flesh of the female

and of the (uncut) male of any species, intact males having stronger

flavors (hormones) and tougher connective tissue- that's just the

effects of testosterone.

 

As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two

things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry

nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics

(can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?) Secondly,

I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify

the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as

poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as

we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner.

--

Saint Phlip

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:30:57 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA

      <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

grizly wrote:

> SPECULATION:  sanitizes the outside of the flesh after butchering . . .

> removes the bits and parts left on it.  Plus, it tightens the skin  

> and flesh to hold onto the cloves when they are stuck in.

>

> niccolo difrancesco

 

It does definitely remove the bits and parts...particularly bristles!  I

recall my grandparents doing that when they butchered a pig...before

doing much of anything with it, they did this to remove the bristles.

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:57:20 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

      <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Sep 15, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Saint Phlip wrote:

> As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two

> things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry

> nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics

> (can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?)

 

Abdul-Hassim seems to feel pork is warm and humid in the first

degree, so one could probably make a case for the blanching,

roasting, and final boil as coming under the heading of

"neutralization of the dangers". However, The Physician makes no

specific mention of wild pigs versus domestic, AFAIK, apart from a

lovely boar illustration in the section on acorns.

 

> Secondly,

> I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify

> the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as

> poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as

> we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner.

>

> Adamantius? Any thoughts?

 

It's certainly possible. It's hard to say why this seems to be so

common a step in preparation for meats to be roasted, but it does

appear to tighten the skin and make it more receptive to seasonings,

make the meat more attractive when roasted, maybe soften the surface

of a fatty cut for studding with cloves or larding (if it was

previously cold, especially), and probably also stiffen it up for

mounting on a spit.

 

I'm curious as to what makes a bourbelier a bourbelier; some sources

seem to suggest we're talking about the tail of the critter, but then

Robert's Beard sauce (a.k.a. Taillemaslee or Sauce Robert) contains

no finely chopped beard, either.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:41:06 -0400

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two

> things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry

> nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics

> (can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?)

 

Pigs are generally pretty neutral, being the closest to human beings.

 

Secondly,

> I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify

> the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as

> poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as

> we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner.

 

At another point in the manuscript, Hinson's translation reads:

 

"The 'bourbelier' is the numble. (Inasmuch as in this area, one says

numbles on the one hand, and bourbelier on the other.)"

 

Now, checking the OED, we see 2 joined definitions for numble:

The entrails of an animal, esp. a deer, as used for food. Formerly also:

part of the back and loins of a hart. Also fig.

 

The previous sentence in the Hinson translation says:

 

"In September they begin to hunt the black beasts until Saint Martin's

day in winter. - Item, all four limbs are called hams, as with a pig.

Item, of a wild boar the head, the flanks, the backbone, the numbles,

the four hams; that is all. Item, of the innards none are retained

except the liver, which seems to be suitable for making a Subtle English

Broth."

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:25:05 -0400

From: "Stephanie Ross" <hlaislinn at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

It seems to me that parboiling all meat, esp fresh, is just the author's

way of handling meat. All his recipes pertaining to meat start off with

parboiling, then larding. He uses this process on boar, hares, deer, wild

goat, rabbits, and the "dainties" but not birds. I am of the opinion it is

done to take out some of the gameiness of the wild-caught meat. He even

states in a round-about way that it is to make the meat a bit more tender -

DEER VENISON. As this meat is tougher than fawn or goat, it must be

parboiled and larded all along it: . Also, WILD DOE: let it be flayed, then

boiled in boiling water and removed quickly, as it is more tender than the

deer. It seems to me it is parboiled to make it more tender also.

 

~Aislinn~

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:10:45 -0400

From: Patrick Levesque <petruvoda at videotron.ca>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>"

      <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I'm almost tempted to drive across the whole kingdom now :-)) (Just Kidding,

we have an event here tomorrow anyway - no feast, yes!, means I can  

fight!)

 

Anyway, I'm a lazy bum and I don't feel like walking upstairs to check the

Viandier's version, but here's what in the Menagier from Cindy Renfrow's

online version:

 

BOURBELIER DE SANGLIER. Primo le convient mettre en eaue boulant, et bien

tost retraire et boutonner de giroffle; mettre rostir, et baciner de sausse

faicte d'espices, c'est assavoir gingembre, canelle , giroffle, graine,

poivre long et noix muguettes, destremp? de vertjus, vin et vinaigre, et

sans boulir l'en baciner; et quant il sera rosti, si boulez tout ensemble.

Et ceste sausse est appell?e queue de sanglier , et la trouverez cyapr?s

(et l? il la fait liant de pain: et cy, non).

 

The Miscellany's translation is pretty adequate. I'm wondering, though,

since in a footnote there is a musing about the meaning of "queue de

sanglier" whether you do find an accumulation of fat in boar's tail (similar

to mutton tail fat and its use in ME cuisine)?...

 

And what the heck, I'll go get the Viandier, just a minute...

 

Ok, the 4 various manuscripts compared by Scully rather agree with the

Menagier, with the difference that after the pork is roasted and basted, it

is cut in smaller sections to be boiled in the sauce.

 

Numbles, by the way, is Nomblet.  Couldn't find it in a dictionary. Did

find this definition of Bourbelier in a period dictionary:

 

Une viande ?

fort friande que les

anciens faisoyent des tetines d'une truye apres qu'elle avoit cochonn?.

 

A tasty dish that the Ancients made with the udders of a sow after  

she had born piglets.

 

Good luck with this one!!!

 

Petru

 

 

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:28:15 -0500

From: "Pat Griffin" <ldyannedubosc at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

BOURBELIER DE SANGLIER.7 Primo le convient mettre en eaue boulant, et bien

tost retraire et boutonner de giroffle; mettre rostir, et baciner8 de sausse

faicte d'espices, c'est assavoir gingembre, canelle , giroffle, graine,

poivre long et noix muguettes, destremp? de vertjus, vin et vinaigre, et

sans boulir l'en baciner; et quant il sera rosti, si boulez tout ensemble.

Et ceste sausse est appell?e queue de sanglier , 9et la trouverez cyapr?s

(et l? il la fait liant de pain: et cy, non).

 

-----Original Message-----

Can anybody shoot me the original recipe in French (or whatever

language)? Might clarify a couple things.

--

Saint Phlip

 

 

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:17:34 -0400

From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Thanks for the copies of the original y'all sent me ;-)

 

We tried the recipe tonight, and it was quite good. Couldn't find my

Medieval spices, and we were out of verjuice, so I added extra pepper,

and subbed apple cider and lemon juice for the verjuice. Did drop it

in boiling water as recommended- left it in long enough for it to come

back to a boil and removed it. As it was, the roast was a wonderful

crispy brown on the outside, with absolutely delectable and tender

meat on the inside. Having tried it this way, Margali has promised me

some verjuice next time she gets over to the ME store we get it at,

and by then I'll have found my spices, and we'll try it again.

 

Side dish, btw, was something M calls "Heaven and Earth", which is red

cabbage cooked to just tender with apples.

 

Good munchies ;-)

--

Saint Phlip

 

 

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:22:31 -0700 (PDT)

From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 5, Issue 67/ Himmel und

      Erde

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

   Benedicte alles,

   Himmel und Erde as I know it....from a pre publication manuscript  

of a friend of mine from monastery days...'Gottes Lieb fur Mann' God'  

s love for man, a thousand years of monastic cooking, from Einsedeln.  

Einsedeln is a Swiss Benedictine monastery founded in the year 935.

   www.kloster-einsiedeln.sh/

 

   Himmel und Erde is Cabbage, Apples and Onions fried/sauteed' in  

butter with salt and pepper. Often served with goose or pork, but  

also with other meats and on fast days without butter and just using  

olive oil.

 

   I remember it being served even over here in American monasteries  

who trace their descent from Eisiedeln and Bavarian/Austrian  

communities.

 

   Johann von Metten

 

10. Re: Himmel und Erde (was Re: Bourbelier of Wild Pig) (Saint Phlip)

 

<the end>



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