fish-pies-msg - 5/3/01
Period fish pies. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: pies-msg, meat-pies-msg, fruit-pies-msg, fish-msg, stockfish-msg, salmon-msg, seafood-msg, flour-msg, ovens-msg, fishing-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:30:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #75
I have to contribute a favorite tale of a traditional wierd fish dish:
Stargazy Pie, made with a regular double pie crust, whole fresh Sardines,
Gammon, and Saffrom Milk. The heads of the fish are left to poke out of the
crust, staring upwards (thus "Stargazy").
Classify it under *Things that make ya go HMMM?* Top that, whydoncha!
Aoife
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:50:36 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Tuna Recipe?
THLRenata at aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone out there know of a good, preferably period recipe for fresh tuna?
I believe Chiquart's 15th-century recipe for Parmesan Pies (Tourtes of
Parma, etc.), the fish-day version, recommends tuna as one possible fish
to use. It's a long recipe, although I believe HG Cariadoc has his lady
wife's, Mistress Elizabeth's, translation webbed. Basically it is a
large pie with layers of dried fruit and fish, possibly some custard;
I'd have to check on the details.
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:42:07 EDT
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - 2 questions
Question:
Was lenten food, that is, the recipes, ever served at non-Lenten times?
Could the following recipe be served cold?
Thanks, Phillipa
TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART)
Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust
1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture
2 tb Lemon juice
2 tb Butter
2 ea Pears -- peeled, cored & thinly -sliced
2 ea Apples -- peeled,cored & thinly -sliced
1 c White wine
2 tb Lemon juice
2 tb Brown sugar
5 ea Cubebs: , thinly crushed
1/8 ts Cloves, ground
1/8 ts Nutmeg
1/4 ts Cinnamon
1/2 c Raisins
10 ea Prunes -- pitted & minced
6 ea Dates -- minced
6 ea Figs, dried -- minced
3 tb Red currant jelly -- or Damson
Preheat the oven to 425F and bake the pie crust for 10 minutes. Let cool.
Cut the fish into 1 1/2" chunks, salt lightly ands sprinkle with 2 tbsp lemon
juice.
Set aside.
Melt the butter in a large, heavy skillet and toss the pear and apple slices
in it until they are lightly coated.
Combine the wine, lemon juice, brown sugar, spices and dried fruits, and add
to the mixture in the skillet.
Cover and simmer about 15 minutes or until the fruit is soft but still firm.
Check the flavoring, and drain off excess liquid.
Paint jelly on the pie crust.
Combine fish chunks with fruit and place the mixture in the crust.
Bake at 375F for 15-25 minutes, or until the fish flakes easily.
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:07:12 -0400
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - 2 questions
And it came to pass on 2 Oct 00, , that Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> Could the following recipe be served cold?
> Thanks, Phillipa
> TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART)
>
> Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust
> 1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture
[snip]
Some fish pies were served cold. Nola says that salmon pie (his
recipe is much simpler, just the fish and some spices) can be
served cold, but that one must make a hole in the bottom crust and
drain off the juices. Anglo-Norman culinary tastes may have been
different.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:41:27 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - 2 questions
Draining off the juices might not be the thing to do with this pie. The
sauce has a high sugar content and may need them to set up properly. Come
to think of it, draining the juices might also remove much of the sauce.
I'd experiment.
Bear
> And it came to pass on 2 Oct 00, , that Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> > Could the following recipe be served cold?
> > Thanks, Phillipa
> > TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART)
> >
> > Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust
> > 1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture
> [snip]
>
> Some fish pies were served cold. Nola says that salmon pie (his
> recipe is much simpler, just the fish and some spices) can be
> served cold, but that one must make a hole in the bottom crust and
> drain off the juices. Anglo-Norman culinary tastes may have been
> different.
>
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:01:56 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fish pie recipe
>If anyone has that fish and fruit pie recipe, please re-post it.
Do you mean this?
Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis
x. Rapeye. Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take
Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or
lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence
to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde,
y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as
it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade
lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, &
[th]anne serue it forth.
10. Rapeye. Take Dough, & make thereof a broad thin cake; then take Figs
& Raisins small ground, & first seethed, And a piece of Haddock or ling
pounded withal; & take powder of Pepper, Galingale, Cloves, & mix together,
& lay thine mixture on the cake in the manner of a bean-cod, rolled with
thine hand; then cast thy cake over thy mixture, as it will embrace it; &
with a saucer rim go round as the mixture lies, & cut them, & so he is cut
& closed withal, & bake or fry it, & then serve it forth. (From Take a
Thousand Eggs or More, vol. 1, p. 72)
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at thousandeggs.com
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:25:18 -0600
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SC - Re: Talking of Pies
Elysant wrote:
>There is a pie called "Star-gazie Pie" which my mother told me of (I've never
>eaten it). (snip) It is a fish pie made with whole
>(cleaned) fish within it, laid side by side. The top crust has holes cut in
>it and the head and tail of the fish are pulled through the holes from
>beneath so the body of the fish is "submerged" in the pie and the heads and
>tails poke through the holes and are above the crust - making the fish "gaze"
>at the stars - at least that where I'm assuming the title came from....Has
>anyone else on the list heard of this pie? I wonder about the origins of
>it....
Dorothy Hartley, in _Food in England_ has a drawing of a "stargazy" pie (made of
pilchards) along with several other dough-wrapped fish presentations. She
doesn't give an origin, however.
Alys Katharine
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:41:19 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: Pasties was ( SC - Running an Inn???)
> Also meat pies or pasties
> (although I don't believe pasties are documentably period)
> are good choices and can be made ahead. They are good at
> ambient temps. If you get a Coleman oven that really helps
> as well.
>
> Gunthar
I don't know about the Cornish pasties we've kicked around are period, but
here is a little something from Ein Buch von Guter Speise which meets the
basic criteria for a pasty.
Bear
15. Von pasteden (Of pasties)
Wilt du machen pasteden von vischen. so schupe die vische und ziuhe in abe
die hut, swenne sie erwallen, und hau sie zu cleinen st¸cken. hacke peterlin
und salbey dor in und tu dor zu pfeffer und yngeber, zinemin und saffran.
temper ez allez mit wine einen d¸nnen derben teye und tu die vische dor in.
und giuz den wine dor uf und decke ez mit eime d¸nnen teyge und mache daz
umme und um gantz und brich oben ein loch dor in. und lege da f¸r ein
cl¸sterlin von teyge und laz ez backen. Also mac man auch h¸enre machen.
auch fleisch oder wilprete oder ele ode v–gele.
This is how you want to make pasties of fish. So scale the fish and remove
the skin when it boils. And strike it to small pieces. Chop parsley and sage
there in. And do thereto pepper and ginger, cinnamon and saffron. Temper it
all with wine and make a thin dough (possibly freshly made as opposed to
sourdough) and add the fish therein and give the wine thereon and cover it
with a thin dough and make that round and round whole (possibly shape the
pastry before adding the fish and wine). And break above a hole there in and
lay there for a cover of dough and let it bake. So one may make also hens.
Also meat or wild meat or eel or birds.
<the end>