meat-pies-msg

meat-pies-msg - 4/20/05

Period meat pies. Recipes.

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From: ghita at world.std.com (Susan Earley)

Subject: Re: Meat Pie Recipes

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:25:41 GMT

00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.EDU writes:

>Does anyone have any recipies for meat pies (and the like) that can be

>pre-cooked and then re-heated over a fire/campstove to eat (i.e at

>Pennsic)? I remember seeing such a critter float across the Rialto in the

>past, and I thought I had saved it. But alas...'tis not so.

Cornish Pasties (famous in the UP of Michigan)

make Pie Dough (Flour, shortening, a little salt & baking powder, & water).

in a LARGE bowl, combine:

ground meat (usually hamburger, but can be steak)

cubed turnips (IMPORTANT INGREDIENT!)

chopped potatoes

chopped carrots

roll out pie dough into a circle about 8" across.

scoop about 1 to 1 1/2 cups of meat mixture onto 1/2 of dough, leaving

1 inch around the edge free. (make the heavy metal happy ship)

add a pat of butter on top of the pile of meat stuff.

fold the top of the dough over the bottom (where the meat stuff is).

take edges and fold over (bottom over top), using thumb to squish and make

scallop pattern - don't break the dough covering the meat stuff!

make 1 or 2 small cuts in the top of the cough (over the butter).

optional - brush milk over the top.

now, either cook or freeze. cook in 350 degree until top turns golden

brown. freeze by wrapping in tin foil. can be thrown directly in fire, or

left on grill still wrapped. (keeping the foil on makes the crust stay

moist - if you don't like moist, open the foil when half cooked - leave on

the foil, tho - you want the insides to be sorta moist.

eat by either spreading butter on the top and slicing, or open the thing

and douse with ketchup (my favorite), or just eating plain.

in the UP, there are tons of copper mines (mostly defunct now, or tourist

attractions). the miners used to take the just cooked pasties, put them

in their helmets or their shirt, and eat them (still warm) at lunch.

in the UP, Pasties are DRIVE THRU food.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lady Margherita Alessia, called Ghita Member # 32315 Susan Earley

Shire of Rokkehealdan [SW Chicago Suburbs] Brookfield, IL

Middle Kingdom Chancellor of the Exchequer ghita at world.std.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Meat Pie Recipes

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 04:14:34 GMT

00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.EDU writes:

>Does anyone have any recipies for meat pies (and the like) that can be

>pre-cooked and then re-heated over a fire/campstove to eat (i.e at

>Pennsic)?

He does not say whether he is looking for period recipes or just

anything good. Ghita offers a recipe for Cornish Pasties, which can

be good but are certainly not period, at least in this recipe. Here

are some period recipes that might fit the requirements; one could

reheat them, or just eat them cold. They are all out of the

Miscellany. In each case, the first version is the original, followed

by ingredients with quantities, followed by our worked out version. I

apologise for any problems with the layout, which will depend on how

long your lines are.

Chawettys

Two Fifteenth Century p. 48/62

Take buttys of Vele, and mynce hem smal, or Porke, and put on a

potte; take Wyne, and caste ther-to pouder of Gyngere, Pepir, and

Safroun, and Salt, and a lytel ver ous, and do hem in a cofyn with

yolks of Eyroun, and kutte Datys and Roysonys of Coraunce, Clowys,

Maces, and then ceuere thin cofyn, and lat it bake tyl it be y-now.

3 cups chopped pork or veal (about 18 oz) 3/4 t salt

3/8 c currants

3/4 c red wine 1 t wine vinegar 1/4 t cloves

5 threads saffron 9 egg yolks 1/2 t mace

3/4 t ginger 3/8 c dates double 9" pie crust

3/4 t pepper

Cut the meat up fine (1/2" cubes or so). Simmer it in a cup and a

half of water for about 20 minutes. Make pie crust, fill with meat,

chopped dates and currents. Mix spices, wine, vinegar and egg yolks

and pour over. Put on a top crust. Bake in a 350 degrees oven for 50

minutes, then 400 degrees for 20 minutes or until the crust looks

done.

Pork Doucetty

Two Fifteenth Century p. 55/64 (GOOD)

Take pork, and hack it small, and eyroun y-mellyd together, and a

little milk, and melle him together with honey and pepper, and bake

him in a coffin, and serve forth.

1/2 to 2/3 lb of pork chops 3 T milk

pinch of pepper

6 eggs 2 t honey 1 9" pie crust

Cook pork in the oven or boil it about 20 minutes. Make a pie crust,

prick it, and put it in a 400 degrees degree oven for about 10

minutes. Mix remaining ingredients. Cut pork into small pieces and

add to mixture. Put it in the pie crust and bake at 350 degrees for

about 40 minutes.

Herbelade

Two Fifteenth Century p. 54/64 (GOOD)

Take Buttes of Porke, and smyte hem in pecys, and sette it ouer the

fyre; and sethe hem in fayre Watere; and whan it is y-sothe y-now,

ley it on a fayre bord, and pyke owt alle the bonys, and hew it smal,

and put it in a fayre bolle; than take ysope, Sawge, Percely a gode

quantite, and hew it smal, and putte it in a fayre vesselle; than

take a lytel of the brothe, that the porke was sothin in, and draw

thorw a straynoure, and caste to the Erbys, and gif it a boyle;

thenne take owt the Erbys with a Skymoure fro the brothe, and caste

hem to the porke in the bolle; than mynce Datys smal, and caste hem

ther-to, and Roysonys of Coraunce, and pynes, and drawe thorw a

straynoure yolkes of Eyroun ther-to, and Sugre, and pouder Gyngere,

and Salt, and coloure it a lytel with Safroune; and toyle yt with

thin hond al thes to-gederys; than make fayre round cofyns, and harde

hem a lytel in the ovyn; than take hem owt, and with a dysshe in thin

hond, fylle hem fulle of the Stuffe; than sette hem ther-in a-gen;

and lat hem bake y-now, and serue forth.

3 pork chops 1/2 c chopped dates

1/2 t salt

3 c chopped fresh parsley

1/2 c currants 1 T sugar

1 t dried leaf sage 1/3 c pine nuts

5 egg yolks

2 T hyssop 1/2 t powdered ginger

1 9" pastry shell

Boil pork chops until cooked, take out, remove the bones and cut up

the meat. Boil herbs in the pork broth. Mix pork, cooked herbs, and

remaining ingredients in bowl. Make pie crust and bake 10 minutes to

harden. Put filling in the pie crust. Bake 30 minutes at 375 degrees.

Tart on Ember Day

Ancient Cookery p. 448/38 (Good)

Parboil onions, and sage, and parsley and hew them small, then take

good fat cheese, and bray it, and do thereto eggs, and temper it up

therewith, and do thereto butter and sugar, and raisyngs of corince,

and powder of ginger, and of canel, medel all this well together, and

do it in a coffin, and bake it uncovered, and serve it forth.

7 ounces cheese 3 T butter

1/4 t ginger

4 medium onions = 1 lb 4 eggs

4 T currants

1/3 c parsley 1 T sugar 9 " pie crust

2 T fresh sage or 1 1/2 t dried

1 t cinnamon

Chop the onions and boil 10 minutes, drain. Grate cheese. Mix

everything and put in pie crust. We used Meunster; a more strongly

flavored cheese might be better.

Spinach Tart

Goodman p. 278/23 PRA TartS (GOOD)

To make a tart, take four handfuls of beet leaves, two handfuls of

parsley, a handful of chervil, a sprig of fennel and two handful of

spinach, and pick them over and wash them in cold water, then cut

them up very small; then bray with two sorts of cheese, to wit a hard

and a medium, and then add eggs thereto, yolks and whites, and bray

them in the cheese; then put the herbs into the mortar and bray all

together and also put therein some fine powder. Or instead of this

have ready brayed in the mortar two heads of ginger and onto this

bray your cheese, eggs and herbs and then cast old cheese scraped or

grated onto the herbs and take it to the oven and then have your tart

made and eat it hot.

1/3 lb spinach, chopped 5 eggs

1/2 cup fresh parsley, chopped

2/5 lb each of cheddar and mozzarella cheese

2 T dried or 1/4 c fresh chervil 1/2 t ginger

1 or 2 leaves fresh fennel, or 1/2 t salt

1 t fennel seed, ground in a mortar

9" pie crust

Chop or grate greens and cheese and mix filling in a bowl. Make pie

crust and bake at 400 degrees for about 10 minutes. Put filling in

crust and bake about 40 minutes at 350 degrees. We usually substitute

spinach for beet leaves, dried chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for

fresh fennel leaves because of availability.

David/Cariadoc

Who is almost always willing to provide period recipes for anyone who

has a use for them.

From: 0003900943 at mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Meat pies

Date: 12 Jul 1994 11:01:45 -0400

Greetings to the Rialto, from Jessa d'Avondale!

My favorite meat pie recipe is the redaction for Pies of Parys, in "Pleyn

Delight".

Basically, you take a pound of ground meat and pre-cook it by simmering it

in a mixture of red wine and broth (just enough to cover it.) Add currants

(or raisins), and sweet spices such as cinnamon, cloves, etc. Cook until it

thickens slightly. Remove it from the heat, allow to cool a little, then

beat in egg yolks (to help the pie set while baking).

This is then baked as a 1 or 2 crust pie. Put a cookie sheet under the pie

plate, as it usually bubbles over.

A variation on this is to place (precooked) chicken fillets on top of the

meat before putting on the top crust.

We brought these to Pennsic and reheated them inside a closed grill, for a

quick dinner after we had arrived and set up the camp.

Jessa

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: Sam_Bennett at hp6400.desk.hp.com (Sam Bennett)

Subject: Re: Help! Meatpie recipe lost

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 09:35:35 GMT

Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Business Unit

kbeary at gravity.science.gmu.edu (Karen Beary) says:

>Last week I forwarded to my printable queue an article detailing the

>recipe for tastey meat pasties. Alas, it hadn't sent completely and the

>recipe itself was lost. Could any of your be so kind to post the recipe

>again before War? I intend to make a slew of the meaty morsels and haul

>them to Pennsic for obvious reasons.

>Many humble thanks in advance,

>Ysabeau Madeleine de Gascogne

>Better idea: could you mail to me directly?

Sorry, I can't E-mail out & I don't know the recipie that you had but here's

one that I've had people rave about at feasts and taken to events for

about 15 years now. It is based on one in "How to Cook Forsoothy"

which might still be available from the Stock Clerk.

for 6 pies (amounts can be adjusted up or down easily)

10 lbs ground beef

2 lbs bacon

3 lbs sweet italian sausage

4 c bread crumbs

6 eggs

3 lg onions

4 carrots

2 stalks celery

beef broth or stock

6 dlb pie shells or pastry for about 3 doz pasties

Brown meats and drain. Dice veggies and sautee until tender (not soft).

mix all ingredients adding enough broth to make the whole thing guey

and place into pie shells or pasties. bake at 425 for about 45 min for

pies and 25-30 min for pasties.

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>

Date: 16 Apr 1997 10:05:07 -0500

Subject: Re: SC - SC: Viking's Pies & Feast Themes

> Now that I have some idea of what pies I can make in persona, does anyone

> have a recipe for a pie crust that is period? All the ones I got handed down

> are definitly modern, and the libraries around here seem not to have much of

> anything from before the 1800's unless it is a broad history text.

Simple redaction from Markham (my favorite source -- he's so easy!!) --

Warning -- I tend to work in quantity:

5 lbs of white flour

1 teaspoon of salt

1 lb of butter

Water

Mix the flour and salt together. Cut in the butter (this is a recipe for meat

coffins -- use more butter for fruit); this much butter won't create the

little dough balls.

Slowly mix in room temperature water. I work by touch so I don't have any

idea how much I add; the amount changes with the ambient humidity. The dough

is done when it sticks together, but is not clammy. It has a nice play-doughy

texture.

I prefer to use a pastry knife to cut in the butter and mix the early

additions of water. Then I take off my rings and get my hands messy. :-)

This recipe will make probably 10 pie shells, depending on how thin you want

them. For meat pies, a 1/4 inch thick is good.

Derdriu

swensel at brandegee.lm.com

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:32:31 -0400 (EDT)

From: Aldyth at aol.com

Subject: SC - SC-Recipe Help

Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list. I have come upon a recipe in

a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent. It tastes wonderful.

Elk Game Pie

2 TBSP Olive oil

3 pounds ground elk

2 medium onions, peeled and finely chopped

2 celery stalks chopped into 1/8 inch pieces

1 cup whole milk or heavy cream

1 10 ounce can condensed cream of mushroom soup

Salt and freshly ground pepper

French pastry shell:

4 cups unbleached flour

1 tsp salt

1 1/4 cup chilled butter, cubed

2 eggs

1 3/4 cup cold water

1 TBSP Olive oil

TO make the filling,

Brown the elk in the olive oil, remove elk and saute the onions and celery in

the pan drippings. Add the elk back, along with the milk, soup, and salt and

pepper to taste. Place in the pastry shell ( I guess they take for granted

you know how to make it) cover with a top, and cook in a pre heated 400

degree oven for 15 minutes. Reduce heat to 350 and bake 1 hour. It mentions

it goes well with a homemade chutney.

Aldyth

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:37:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - SC-Recipe Help

Aldyth at aol.com wrote:

> Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list. I have come upon a recipe in

> a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

> to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent. It tastes wonderful.

Sounds wonderful! I suspect, though, that its style betrays origins in

the nineteenth century, which is certainly old, and isn't a problem in

and of itself. There are plenty of variations on the venison pasty in

period, but none that I'm aware of that come really close to this. The

primary differences are the cream, the mushroom element, and the celery.

Even the onions would be more likely to be a flavoring that wouldn't end

up in the final product, I suspect.

Probably the main problem with this as a period recipe are the use of

the various cream and cream soup products in the filling. These would

tend to spoil without refrigeration, which isn't something you'd want in

a period pie. More likely the cream would end up in the pastry, rather

than in the filling. The chopped vegetables are another, well,

anachronism, as far as SCA use goes, especially the celery, which would

continue to be a rare food item in Europe until the mid-to-late

seventeenth century (not that the plant was universally unknown, it's

just there is little evidence to suggest that it was widely eaten).

The more standard type of venison pasty or pie in period would be one

where large chunks of raw, possibly larded, venison would be baked for a

couple, or several, hours, in a pie crust with a few spices and its own

juices. In later period pies a sauce might be added in later, consisting

of wine and egg yolks, tasting vaguely like Hollandaise sauce, to mix

with the meat juice and thicken in the oven like a custard. Still later

in period, and post-period, the pie would be sealed with melted or

clarified butter, with all air spaces eliminated from inside the crust.

This was an early form of preservation similar to canning.

A typical example of such later-period pies can be found in Gervase

Markham's The English Housewife, I believe.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:34:32 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - SC-Recipe Help

Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list. I have come upon a recipe in

a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent. It tastes wonderful.>>

Mind you, this is my interpretation of a period equivalent and is not

actually a redaction of s period recipe!

Venison Game Pie

2 TBSP Olive oil

3 pounds grond venison. minced

2 medium onions, peeled and finely chopped

1/2 cup parsley, chopped

2 cups almond milk

2 ozs mushrooms, chopped

Salt and freshly ground pepper

2/3 tsp galingal, ground

1/2 tsp. cubebs, ground

3/4 tsp. grains of paradise, ground

q/3 tdp. ginger, groung

French pastry shell:

4 cups unbleached flour

1 tsp salt

1 1/4 cup lard, cubed

2 eggs

1 3/4 cup cold water

1 TBSP Olive oil

TO make the filling,

Brown the venison in the olive oil, remove venison and saute the onions and

parsley in the pan drippings. Add the venison, along with the almond milk,

mushrooms, and salt and pepper to taste. Place in the pastry shell done in

the usual way. Cover with a top, and cook in a pre heated 400 degree oven for

15 minutes. Reduce heat to 350 and bake 1 hour. Serve with Boiled

Strawberries and Sugar on top..

What do ya' think?

Lord Ras

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:31:42 -0600

From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - Pasties in Period?

>To keep this from being a total waste of time, does anyone have a fairly

>period recipe for pasties or were they OOP ?

>Elisande de Citeaux

The ever-popular Forfar Bridies are definately OOP. They contain potato, and

besides were invented in the 1870s by a Baker called Mr. Jolly! They were

called Bridies because they were the simple sort of thing a young bride

could easily add to her repertoire.

Cornish pasties I am not so sure about, although I do know that they were

extremely popular with the factory workingmen of Cornwall, and the Pasties

would be marked with an initial so that if the fellows couldn't eat them all

(circumferance was marked with a dinner plate---they were huge!), they could

be claimed later.

Meat has been put in pastry for quite some time in history. Big meat pies

are definately "in period". Individual ones I am not so certain about. The

trouble is that they would have been picnic fare or food for field hands,

and so not likely to have made it into a cookbook untill very late period if

at all. I guess the question is whether, if they DID exist in period, they

had that particular "pasty" shape or not in period (shape: fold a circle in

half. Fill it. Crimp edges heavily. Turn and push the pasty so that the

crimp is over the top of the pasty. Brush with beaten egg. Bake). I haven't

seen directions for a hand-held pie recipe with a shortcrust in the

half-moon shape, but who knows? Perhaps someone could find one in late

period, if they had enough time to browse the many many sources. Sorry, but

at the moment I don't.

Aoife

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:41:58 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Pasties in Period?

>To keep this from being a total waste of time, does anyone have a fairly

>period recipe for pasties or were they OOP ?

>Elisande de Citeaux

Hello! Ask and ye shall receive:

Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis (c. 1430)

x. Rapeye. Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take

Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or

lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence

to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde,

y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as

it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade

lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, &

[th]anne serue it forth.

My Translation:

10. Rapeye. Take Dough, & make thereof a broad thin cake; then take Figs

& Raisins small ground, & first seethed, And a piece of Haddock or ling

pounded withal; & take powder of Pepper, Galingale, Cloves, & mix together,

& lay thine mixture on the cake in the manner of a bean-cod, rolled with