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meat-pies-msg - 11/13/08

 

Period meat pies. Recipes.

 

NOTE: See also these files: fruit-pies-msg, mincemeat-pie-msg, meat-smoked-msg, sausages-msg, mushrooms-msg, cheese-msg, lamb-mutton-msg, ham-msg, fried-foods-msg, fish-pies-msg, pies-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: ghita at world.std.com (Susan Earley)

Subject: Re: Meat Pie Recipes

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:25:41 GMT

 

00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.EDU writes:

>Does anyone have any recipies for meat pies (and the like) that can be

>pre-cooked and then re-heated over a fire/campstove to eat (i.e at

>Pennsic)? I remember seeing such a critter float across the Rialto in the

>past, and I thought I had saved it.  But alas...'tis not so.  

 

Cornish Pasties  (famous in the UP of Michigan)

 

make Pie Dough (Flour, shortening, a little salt & baking powder, & water).

 

in a LARGE bowl, combine:

ground meat (usually hamburger, but can be steak)

cubed turnips (IMPORTANT INGREDIENT!)

chopped potatoes

chopped carrots

 

roll out pie dough into a circle about 8" across.

scoop about 1 to 1 1/2 cups of meat mixture onto 1/2 of dough, leaving

1 inch around the edge free.  (make the heavy metal happy ship)

add a pat of butter on top of the pile of meat stuff.

fold the top of the dough over the bottom (where the meat stuff is).

take edges and fold over (bottom over top), using thumb to squish and make

scallop pattern - don't break the dough covering the meat stuff!

make 1 or 2 small cuts in the top of the cough (over the butter).

optional - brush milk over the top.

now, either cook or freeze.  cook in 350 degree until top turns golden

brown.  freeze by wrapping in tin foil.  can be thrown directly in fire, or

left on grill still wrapped.  (keeping the foil on makes the crust stay

moist - if you don't like moist, open the foil when half cooked - leave on

the foil, tho - you want the insides to be sorta moist.

 

eat by either spreading butter on the top and slicing, or open the thing

and douse with ketchup (my favorite), or just eating plain.

 

in the UP, there are tons of copper mines (mostly defunct now, or tourist

attractions).  the miners used to take the just cooked pasties, put them

in their helmets or their shirt, and eat them (still warm) at lunch.

 

in the UP, Pasties are DRIVE THRU food.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lady Margherita Alessia, called Ghita       Member # 32315       Susan Earley

Shire of Rokkehealdan [SW Chicago Suburbs]                     Brookfield, IL

Middle Kingdom Chancellor of the Exchequer               ghita at world.std.com

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Meat Pie Recipes

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 04:14:34 GMT

 

00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.EDU writes:

>Does anyone have any recipies for meat pies (and the like) that can be

>pre-cooked and then re-heated over a fire/campstove to eat (i.e at

>Pennsic)?

 

He does not say whether he is looking for period recipes or just

anything good. Ghita offers a recipe for Cornish Pasties, which can

be good but are certainly not period, at least in this recipe.   Here

are some period recipes that might fit the requirements; one could

reheat them, or just eat them cold. They are all out of the

Miscellany. In each case, the first version is the original, followed

by ingredients with quantities, followed by our worked out version. I

apologise for any problems with the layout, which will depend on how

long your lines are.

 

Chawettys

Two Fifteenth Century p. 48/62

 

Take buttys of Vele, and mynce hem smal, or Porke, and put on a

potte; take Wyne, and caste ther-to pouder of Gyngere, Pepir, and

Safroun, and Salt, and a lytel ver ous, and do hem in a cofyn with

yolks of Eyroun, and kutte Datys and Roysonys of Coraunce, Clowys,

Maces, and then ceuere thin cofyn, and lat it bake tyl it be y-now.

 

3 cups chopped pork or veal (about 18 oz)     3/4 t salt     

3/8 c currants

3/4 c red wine      1 t wine vinegar     1/4 t cloves

5 threads saffron     9 egg yolks     1/2 t mace

3/4 t ginger     3/8 c dates     double 9" pie crust

3/4 t pepper    

 

Cut the meat up fine (1/2" cubes or so). Simmer it in a cup and a

half of water for about 20 minutes. Make pie crust, fill with meat,

chopped dates and currents. Mix spices, wine, vinegar and egg yolks

and pour over. Put on a top crust. Bake in a 350 degrees oven for 50

minutes, then 400 degrees for 20 minutes or until the crust looks

done.

 

 

Pork Doucetty

Two Fifteenth Century p. 55/64 (GOOD)

 

Take pork, and hack it small, and eyroun y-mellyd together, and a

little milk, and melle him together with honey and pepper, and bake

him in a coffin, and serve forth.

 

1/2 to 2/3 lb of pork chops     3 T milk    

pinch of pepper

6 eggs          2 t honey     1 9" pie crust

 

Cook pork in the oven or boil it about 20 minutes. Make a pie crust,

prick it, and put it in a 400 degrees degree oven for about 10

minutes. Mix remaining ingredients. Cut pork into small pieces and

add to mixture. Put it in the pie crust and bake at 350 degrees for

about 40 minutes.

 

Herbelade

Two Fifteenth Century p. 54/64 (GOOD)

 

Take Buttes of Porke, and smyte hem in pecys, and sette it ouer the

fyre; and sethe hem in fayre Watere; and whan it is y-sothe y-now,

ley it on a fayre bord, and pyke owt alle the bonys, and hew it smal,

and put it in a fayre bolle; than take ysope, Sawge, Percely a gode

quantite, and hew it smal, and putte it in a fayre vesselle; than

take a lytel of the brothe, that the porke was sothin in, and draw

thorw a straynoure, and caste to the Erbys, and gif it a boyle;

thenne take owt the Erbys with a Skymoure fro the brothe, and caste

hem to the porke in the bolle; than mynce Datys smal, and caste hem

ther-to, and Roysonys of Coraunce, and pynes, and drawe thorw a

straynoure yolkes of Eyroun ther-to, and Sugre, and pouder Gyngere,

and Salt, and coloure it a lytel with Safroune; and toyle yt with

thin hond al thes to-gederys; than make fayre round cofyns, and harde

hem a lytel in the ovyn; than take hem owt, and with a dysshe in thin

hond, fylle hem fulle of the Stuffe; than sette hem ther-in a-gen;

and lat hem bake y-now, and serue forth.

 

3 pork chops     1/2 c chopped dates    

1/2 t salt

3 c chopped fresh parsley      

1/2 c currants     1 T sugar

1 t dried leaf sage     1/3 c pine nuts    

5 egg yolks

2 T hyssop     1/2 t powdered ginger    

1 9" pastry shell

 

Boil pork chops until cooked, take out, remove the bones and cut up

the meat. Boil herbs in the pork broth. Mix pork, cooked herbs, and

remaining ingredients in bowl. Make pie crust and bake 10 minutes to

harden. Put filling in the pie crust. Bake 30 minutes at 375 degrees.

 

Tart on Ember Day

Ancient Cookery p. 448/38 (Good)

 

Parboil onions, and sage, and parsley and hew them small, then take

good fat cheese, and bray it, and do thereto eggs, and temper it up

therewith, and do thereto butter and sugar, and raisyngs of corince,

and powder of ginger, and of canel, medel all this well together, and

do it in a coffin, and bake it uncovered, and serve it forth.

 

7 ounces cheese     3 T butter    

1/4 t ginger

4 medium onions  = 1 lb     4 eggs    

4 T currants

1/3 c parsley     1 T sugar     9 " pie crust

2 T fresh sage or 1 1/2 t dried    

1 t cinnamon

 

Chop the onions and boil 10 minutes, drain. Grate cheese. Mix

everything and put in pie crust.  We used Meunster; a more strongly

flavored cheese might be better.

 

Spinach Tart

Goodman p. 278/23 PRA TartS (GOOD)

 

To make a tart, take four handfuls of beet leaves, two handfuls of

parsley, a handful of chervil, a sprig of fennel and two handful of

spinach, and pick them over and wash them in cold water, then cut

them up very small; then bray with two sorts of cheese, to wit a hard

and a medium, and then add eggs thereto, yolks and whites, and bray

them in the cheese; then put the herbs into the mortar and bray all

together and also put therein some fine powder. Or instead of this

have ready brayed in the mortar two heads of ginger and onto this

bray your cheese, eggs and herbs and then cast old cheese scraped or

grated onto the herbs and take it to the oven and then have your tart

made and eat it hot.

 

1/3 lb spinach, chopped     5 eggs

1/2 cup fresh parsley, chopped    

2/5 lb each of cheddar and mozzarella cheese

2 T dried or 1/4 c fresh chervil     1/2 t ginger

1 or 2 leaves fresh fennel, or      1/2 t salt

   1 t fennel seed, ground in a mortar    

9" pie crust

 

Chop or grate greens and cheese and mix filling in a bowl. Make pie

crust and bake at 400 degrees for about 10 minutes. Put filling in

crust and bake about 40 minutes at 350 degrees. We usually substitute

spinach for beet leaves, dried chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for

fresh fennel leaves because of availability.

 

David/Cariadoc

Who is almost always willing to provide period recipes for anyone who

has a use for them.

 

 

From: 0003900943 at mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Meat pies

Date: 12 Jul 1994 11:01:45 -0400

 

Greetings to the Rialto, from Jessa d'Avondale!

 

My favorite meat pie recipe is the redaction for Pies of Parys, in "Pleyn

Delight".

 

Basically, you take a pound of ground meat and pre-cook it by simmering it

in a mixture of red wine and broth (just enough to cover it.)  Add currants

(or raisins), and sweet spices such as cinnamon, cloves, etc.  Cook until it

thickens slightly.  Remove it from the heat, allow to cool a little, then

beat in egg yolks (to help the pie set while baking).

 

This is then baked as a 1 or 2 crust pie.  Put a cookie sheet under the pie

plate, as it usually bubbles over.

 

A variation on this is to place (precooked) chicken fillets on top of the

meat before putting on the top crust.

 

We brought these to Pennsic and reheated them inside a closed grill, for a

quick dinner after we had arrived and set up the camp.

 

Jessa

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: Sam_Bennett at hp6400.desk.hp.com (Sam Bennett)

Subject: Re: Help!  Meatpie recipe lost

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 09:35:35 GMT

Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Business Unit

 

kbeary at gravity.science.gmu.edu (Karen Beary) says:

>Last week I forwarded to my printable queue an article detailing the

>recipe for tastey meat pasties.  Alas, it hadn't sent completely and the

>recipe itself was lost.  Could any of your be so kind to post the recipe

>again before War?  I intend to make a slew of the meaty morsels and haul

>them to Pennsic for obvious reasons.

>

>Many humble thanks in advance,

>Ysabeau Madeleine de Gascogne

>

>Better idea:  could you mail to me directly?

 

Sorry, I can't E-mail out  & I don't know the recipie that you had but here's

one that I've had people rave about at feasts and taken to events for

about 15 years now.  It is based on one in "How to Cook Forsoothy"

which might still be available from the Stock Clerk.

 

 

for 6 pies (amounts can be adjusted up or down easily)

 

10 lbs ground beef

2   lbs bacon

3   lbs sweet italian sausage

4   c bread crumbs

6   eggs

3   lg onions

4   carrots

2   stalks celery

beef broth or stock

6   dlb pie shells or pastry for about 3 doz pasties

 

Brown meats and drain.  Dice veggies and sautee until tender (not soft).

mix all ingredients adding enough broth to make the whole thing guey

and place into pie shells or pasties.  bake at 425 for about 45 min for

pies and 25-30 min for pasties.

 

 

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>

Date: 16 Apr 1997 10:05:07 -0500

Subject: Re: SC - SC: Viking's Pies & Feast Themes

 

> Now that I have some idea of what pies I can make in persona, does anyone

> have a recipe for a pie crust that is period?  All the ones I got handed down

> are definitly modern, and the libraries around here seem not to have much of

> anything from before the 1800's unless it is a broad history text.

 

Simple redaction from Markham (my favorite source -- he's so easy!!) --

Warning -- I tend to work in quantity:

 

5 lbs of white flour

1 teaspoon of salt

1 lb of butter

Water

 

Mix the flour and salt together.  Cut in the butter (this is a recipe for meat

coffins -- use more butter for fruit); this much butter won't create the

little dough balls.  

 

Slowly mix in room temperature water.  I work by touch so I don't have any

idea how much I add; the amount changes with the ambient humidity. The dough

is done when it sticks together, but is not clammy.  It has a nice play-doughy

texture.

 

I prefer to use a pastry knife to cut in the butter and mix the early

additions of water.  Then I take off my rings and get my hands messy.  :-)

 

This recipe will make probably 10 pie shells, depending on how thin you want

them.  For meat pies, a 1/4 inch thick is good.

 

Derdriu

swensel at brandegee.lm.com

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:32:31 -0400 (EDT)

From: Aldyth at aol.com

Subject: SC - SC-Recipe Help

 

Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list.  I have come upon a recipe in

a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent. It tastes wonderful.

 

Elk Game Pie

 

2 TBSP Olive oil

3 pounds ground elk

2 medium onions, peeled and finely chopped

2 celery stalks chopped into 1/8 inch pieces

1 cup whole milk or heavy cream

1 10 ounce can condensed cream of mushroom soup

Salt and freshly ground pepper

 

French pastry shell:

4 cups unbleached flour

1 tsp salt

1 1/4 cup chilled butter, cubed

2 eggs

1 3/4 cup cold water

1 TBSP Olive oil

 

TO make the filling,

Brown the elk in the olive oil, remove elk and saute the onions and celery in

the pan drippings.  Add the elk back, along with the milk, soup, and salt and

pepper to taste.  Place in the pastry shell ( I guess they take for granted

you know how to make it) cover with a top, and cook in a pre heated 400

degree oven for 15 minutes.  Reduce heat to 350 and bake 1 hour.  It mentions

it goes well with a homemade chutney.

 

Aldyth

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:37:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - SC-Recipe Help

 

Aldyth at aol.com wrote:

> Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list.  I have come upon a recipe in

> a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

> to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent.  It tastes wonderful.

 

<recipe snipped>

 

Sounds wonderful! I suspect, though, that its style betrays origins in

the nineteenth century, which is certainly old, and isn't a problem in

and of itself. There are plenty of variations on the venison pasty in

period, but none that I'm aware of that come really close to this. The

primary differences are the cream, the mushroom element, and the celery.

Even the onions would be more likely to be a flavoring that wouldn't end

up in the final product, I suspect.

 

Probably the main problem with this as a period recipe are the use of

the various cream and cream soup products in the filling. These would

tend to spoil without refrigeration, which isn't something you'd want in

a period pie. More likely the cream would end up in the pastry, rather

than in the filling. The chopped vegetables are another, well,

anachronism, as far as SCA use goes, especially the celery, which would

continue to be a rare food item in Europe until the mid-to-late

seventeenth century (not that the plant was universally unknown, it's

just there is little evidence to suggest that it was widely eaten).

 

The more standard type of venison pasty or pie in period would be one

where large chunks of raw, possibly larded, venison would be baked for a

couple, or several, hours, in a pie crust with a few spices and its own

juices. In later period pies a sauce might be added in later, consisting

of wine and egg yolks, tasting vaguely like Hollandaise sauce, to mix

with the meat juice and thicken in the oven like a custard. Still later

in period, and post-period, the pie would be sealed with melted or

clarified butter, with all air spaces eliminated from inside the crust.

This was an early form of preservation similar to canning.

 

A typical example of such later-period pies can be found in Gervase

Markham's The English Housewife, I believe.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:34:32 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - SC-Recipe Help

 

Good and smart readers and lurkers of the list.  I have come upon a recipe in

a mundane cookbook which claims to be old french...I enclude it below and beg

to see if someone can come up with a period equivelent. It tastes wonderful.>>

 

Mind you, this is my interpretation of a period equivalent and is not

actually a redaction of s period recipe!

Venison Game Pie

2 TBSP Olive oil

3 pounds grond venison. minced

2 medium onions, peeled and finely chopped

1/2 cup parsley, chopped

2 cups almond milk

2 ozs mushrooms, chopped

Salt and freshly ground pepper

2/3 tsp galingal, ground

1/2 tsp. cubebs, ground

3/4 tsp. grains of paradise, ground

q/3 tdp. ginger, groung

 

French pastry shell:

4 cups unbleached flour

1 tsp salt

1 1/4 cup lard, cubed

2 eggs

1 3/4 cup cold water

1 TBSP Olive oil

TO make the filling,

Brown the venison in the olive oil, remove venison and saute the onions and

parsley in the pan drippings.  Add the venison, along with the almond milk,

mushrooms, and salt and pepper to taste.  Place in the pastry shell done in

the usual way. Cover with a top, and cook in a pre heated 400 degree oven for

15 minutes.  Reduce heat to 350 and bake 1 hour.  Serve with Boiled

Strawberries and Sugar on top..

What do ya' think?

 

Lord Ras

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:31:42 -0600

From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - Pasties in Period?

 

>To keep this from being a total waste of time, does anyone have a fairly

>period recipe for pasties or were they OOP ?

>

>Elisande de Citeaux

 

The ever-popular Forfar Bridies are definately OOP. They contain potato, and

besides were invented in the 1870s by a Baker called Mr. Jolly! They were

called Bridies because they were the simple sort of thing a young bride

could easily add to her repertoire.

 

Cornish pasties I am not so sure about, although I do know that they were

extremely popular with the factory workingmen of Cornwall, and the Pasties

would be marked with an initial so that if the fellows couldn't eat them all

(circumferance was marked with a dinner plate---they were huge!), they could

be claimed later.

 

Meat has been put in pastry for quite some time in history. Big meat pies

are definately "in period". Individual ones I am not so certain about. The

trouble is that they would have been picnic fare or food for field hands,

and so not likely to have made it into a cookbook untill very late period if

at all. I guess the question is whether, if they DID exist in period, they

had that particular "pasty" shape or not in period (shape: fold a circle in

half. Fill it. Crimp edges heavily. Turn and push the pasty so that the

crimp is over the top of the pasty. Brush with beaten egg. Bake). I haven't

seen directions for a hand-held pie recipe with a shortcrust in the

half-moon shape, but who knows? Perhaps someone could find one in late

period, if they had enough time to browse the many many sources. Sorry, but

at the moment I don't.

 

Aoife

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:41:58 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Pasties in Period?

 

>To keep this from being a total waste of time, does anyone have a fairly

>period recipe for pasties or were they OOP ?

>

>Elisande de Citeaux

 

Hello!  Ask and ye shall receive:

 

Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis  (c. 1430)

x.  Rapeye.  Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take

Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or

lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence

to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde,

y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as

it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade

lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, &

[th]anne serue it forth.

 

My Translation:

10.  Rapeye.  Take Dough, & make thereof a broad thin cake; then take Figs

& Raisins small ground, & first seethed, And a piece of Haddock or ling

pounded withal; & take powder of Pepper, Galingale, Cloves, & mix together,

& lay thine mixture on the cake in the manner of a bean-cod, rolled with

thine hand; then cast thy cake over thy mixture, as it will embrace it; &

with a saucer rim go round as the mixture lies, & cut them, & so he is cut

& closed withal, & bake or fry it, & then serve it forth.

 

This is a really yummy recipe when made into appetizer or individual

serving pasties.

 

Cindy/Sincgiefu

 

 

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:45:22 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Pasties in Period?

 

Hi all from Anne-Marie

 

Elisande asks:

>Does anyone have a fairly period recipe for pasties or were they OOP ?

 

The concept of food wrapped in dough is extremely medieval. Every medieval

source I've looked at has something that fits this description. I've sweet

ones, like the Rapyes one that was posted earlier, and savory ones like the

chicks in pastry from le Menagier or the 12th century Northern European

source (mmm...pastellum...chicken wrapped in bacon and fresh sage leaves

then baked in dough...). There's mushroom pasties from le Menagier, and

rissoles (fried dough units filled with fruit and nuts and sometimes fish)

Of course, we all know aobut food being cooked in "coffyns", ie dishes made

of dough (sometimes edible, sometimes not).

 

In the medieval french, I am told that "pastez" can be pie or a small tart

or even just "pastry", so I feel comfortable making them whatever size I

need at the time.

 

So I'd say yes, if you mean "pasty" as a small handheld food unit wrapped

in dough, they're period. Of course, if you mean a small handheld food unit

filled with a mixture of meat and vegetables, as in Cornish pasty, that's

another thing altogether.

 

- --AM

 

 

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:21:46 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: SC - Rapeye Pasties

 

> Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis  (c. 1430)

> x.  Rapeye.  Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take

> Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or

> lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence

> to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde,

> y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as

> it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade

> lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, &

> [th]anne serue it forth.

 

As for the availability of pasties in period, apart from the above

example, I'll add a couple more pence: I believe, but am not certain,

offhand, that there are references to pasties in both Piers Plowman and

some of the Robin Hood ballads, but I'm not aware of any pasty recipes

from period in which the dish produced is called "pasty".

 

Terence Scully uses the term "pasty" in his translations of Taillevent:

I believe it's a recipe for smelts, which calls for baking them in a

pasty, removing them, recooking them separately and serving with a

sauce. The extent to which Scully is justified using the term "pasty" in

such a context is unknown, as far as I'm concerned. The original French

term is, I believe, pastez, which clearly is some type of small pie, but

whether that makes it a pasty I couldn't say.

 

IIRC, the earliest clearly definable references to pasties in English is

in later documents, such as the Samuel Pepys diaries, which are

contemporary to Digby (mid-to-late 17th century).

 

Now, if it's pies yer after, now that's a different matter ;  )  !

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:37:18 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Rapeye Pasties

 

And from the civilized world we have:

 

Recipe for the Barmakiyya

Andalusian p. A-9

 

It is made with hens, pigeons, ring doves, small birds, or lamb. Take what

you have of it, then clean it and cut it and put it in a pot with salt and

onion, pepper, coriander and lavender or cinnamon, some murri naqi, and

oil. Put it over a gentle fire until it is nearly done and the sauce is

dried. Take it out and fry it with mild oil without overdoing it, and leave

it aside. Then take fine flour and semolina, make a well-made dough with

yeast, and if it has some oil it will be more flavorful. Then stretch this

out into a thin loaf and inside this put the fried and cooked meat of these

birds, cover it with another thin loaf, press the ends together and place

it in the oven, and when the bread is done, take it out. It is very good

for journeying; make it with fish and that can be used for journeying too.

 

[end of original recipe]

 

Note: The Barmecides were a family of Persian viziers who served some of

the early Umayyad Caliphs, in particular Haroun al-Rashid, and were famed

for their generosity.

 

1/2 c sourdough 3 T olive oil for dough 1 1/2 t (lavender or) cinnamon

3/4 c water     1 lb boned chicken or lamb      1 t salt

1 1/2 c white flour     10 oz chopped onion     1 T murri (see p. 3-4)

1 1/2 c semolina        1/2 t pepper    3 T olive oil

(1 t salt in dough)     1 t coriander   3 T more olive oil for frying

 

Cut the meat fairly fine (approximately 1/4" slices, then cut them up),

combine in a 3 quart pot with chopped onion, 1 t salt, spices, murri, and 3

T oil. Cook over a medium low to medium heat about an hour. Cover it at the

beginning so it all gets hot, at which point the onion and meat release

their juices; remove the cover and cook until the liquid is gone, about 30

minutes. Then heat 3 T oil in a large frying pan on a medium high burner,

add the contents of the pot, fry over medium high heat about five minutes.

 

Stir together flour, semolina, 1 t salt. Gradually stir in 3 T oil.

Combine 3/4 c water, 1/2 c sourdough. Stir this into the flour mixture and

knead to a smooth dough (which should only take a few minutes). If you do

not have sourdough, omit it; since the recipes does not give the dough any

time to rise, the sourdough probably does not have a large effect on the

consistency of the dough.

 

Divide the dough in four equal parts. Take two parts, turn them out on a

floured board, squeeze and stretch each (or use a rolling pin) until it is

at least 12" by 5". Put half the filling on one, put the other on top,

squeeze the edges together to seal. Repeat with the other two parts of the

dough and the rest of the filling. Bake on a cookie sheet at 350° for 40

minutes.

 

For the fish version, start with 1 1/4 lb of fish (we used salmon). If it

is boneless, proceed as above, shortening the cooking time to about 35

minutes; it is not necessary to cut up the fish fine, since it will crumble

easily once it is cooked. If your fish has bones, put it on top of the oil,

onions, spices etc., in the largest pieces that will fit in the pot, cover

the pot, and cook for about 10-15 minutes, until the fish is almost ready

to fall apart; in effect, it is being steamed by the liquid produced from

the onions and by its own liquid. Take out the fish, bone it, return to the

pot, and cook uncovered about 30 minutes until the liquid is mostly gone.

Continue as above.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Subject: ANST - Recipe for Finnish Meatloaves

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 22:02:42 MST

From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

 

Sael og heil!

 

A number of people have requested the recipe for the Finnish Meatloaves

served at the Candlemas Feast yesterday in Bryn Gwlad. Therefore I present

it here forthwith...

 

LIHAMMURAKIPPERAS

(Finnish Meatloaf stuffed with vegetables and cheese and wrapped in a sour

cream pastry dough shell)

 

Pastry-wrapped meat dishes are a staple of many cultures, for instance

Welsh pasties, shepherd's pie, the Greek spanikopita, Spanish empanadas,

etc.  Although I have been unable to find documentation for this dish prior

to the late 1600's, the widespread use of similar dishes in every culture

argues for the presence of some similar dish in the medieval period in

Finland.

 

Finnish meatloaf is a rich, high calorie dish suitable for feeding those

performing heavy labor in a cold and marginal environment. It is also

extremely tasty and a fine treat even for those of us in warmer climes!

 

INGEDIENTS:

--------------------

MEATLOAVES

1 lb ground beef (very lean)

1 lb ground pork (Owen's Country Sausage is good)

1 lb game meat (the Finns like to use hedgehog in this dish,

                venison or other game works well. Alternately,

                you can just increase the beef and pork to

                1-1/2 lbs each instead.)

4 eggs

1 c. breadcrumbs

1 c. mushrooms, chopped

1-1/2 c. leeks, chopped (onions can be substituted)

2 tbsp. garlic, crushed or finely chopped (3-4 cloves)

1 tbsp. horseradish, finely grated

spices to taste (I usually include salt, pepper, sage, dill, and rosemary)

16 to 20 oz. cooked chopped spinach, wrung dry as possible (I usually use

                two packages of frozen chopped spinach - defrost it, wring

it

                out and use it as is.  Note that any vegetable can be used -

                it is more common in Finland to find chopped beets used in

                this dish.)

1-1/2 to 2 cups white cheese, grated (Havarti is best, other swisses, queso

                blanco, mozzarella, etc. will work)

 

CRUST:

2 c. unbleached flour (sometimes I reduce the amount of wheat

                flour by 1/2 c. and include barley, rye, or oat flour

                for a more medieval effect.  You have to be cautious

                doing this as these other flours can be "heavy")

1 tsp. salt

1 egg

1/2 c. sour cream

 

DIRECTIONS

--------------------

MEATLOAVES:

1. Combine meats, eggs, breadcrumbs, mushrooms, leeks, garlic,

   horseradish, and spices.  Mix well.

2. Make a flat rectangle of the meat about 1" thick. (It is a good

                idea to do this on a sheet of waxed paper, so that

                it is easier to roll the meat up later.)

3. Arrange the chopped spinach in a solid layer on top of the meat.

4. Sprinkle the cheese to cover the layer of spinach completely.

5. Start from one side and roll the meatloaf up (as though you were

                making a jellyroll).  If you placed your meat on a sheet

                of waxed paper, you can use the waxed paper to help

                control the meat and to get it to roll neatly. Be sure to

                seal the edges and seams well to prevent the cheese

                from melting out as you cook the loaf.

6.  Place the loaf in a shallow pan and cook at 400 degrees F until the

                meat is cooked through, usually between 45 min to 1 hr.

                (Don't use a flat cookie sheet unless it has a good lip.

                Beacuse of the pork and cheese, usually a lot of fat will

                cook out and the pan needs to catch it. Also monitor the

                cooking process closely -- the fat can and will smoke badly

                and can catch on fire.)

7. Set loaf aside to cool.

 

CRUST:

1. Combine flour and salt.  Cut in butter to form fine flakes.

2. Add egg and sour cream.  You may also need 1-2 tsp. water to form

                a manageable dough.

3. Turn out onto floured surface and roll into a sheet twice the width of

the

                meatloaf and about 4" longer than the loaf.

4. Place the meatloaf in the center of the sheet of dough. Wrap the dough

                around the loaf.  Dampen the edges at the seams so they

                will seal well.

5. Place the pastry-wrapped loaf in a greased shallow pan (you may have

                yet more fat cook out) with the seam down.

6. Brush the pastry shell with beaten egg.  (This helps the pastry brown

nicely.)

7. Take any leftover scraps of dough and form decorations for the loaf.

                I usually will make a criss-cross lattice, or else will do

                pictoral scenes using dough cutouts. Brush the decorations

                with egg also.

8. Bake at 375 degrees F until the crust is golden brown, usually 25 to 30

min.

 

Serve hot or at room temperature.  Cut slices across the loaf to show the

swirled layers.  Serve with a hearty dollop of sour cream mixed with

chopped fresh dill.  Since this meatloaf is very rich, an average serving

is based on slices 1" to 2" thick, yielding 18 to 36 servings per meatloaf.

 

SUGGESTIONS:

The meatloaves freeze well (prior to adding the crust)-- it is often a good

idea to make a few and freeze them, then on the day you want to serve the

meatloaf, defrost the meat, add the crust, cook and serve. This is good

for a quick dinner - set the meatloaf out to defrost in the morning and all

you have to do is prepare and cook the crust.

 

Finnish meatloaf is an outstanding tourney food, as it is good cold.  I

often make many small loaves, 4"x2" or 6"x3" and then the day before the

event add the crusts.  They keep in the icechest and can be eaten "on the

go" during the event without further preparation, with or without the

sourcream and dill sauce.

 

A variant on this dish can be made using leftovers, including leftover

meats.  Chop the meat very fine and add extra eggs to bind the loaf.  Any

leftover veggies can be added in the center of the loaf. This makes

leftovers seem very special!

 

If I am pressed for time, lacking ingredients, or for whatever reason don't

want to make the sour cream crust, I have successfully substituted Bisquick

dough for the shell.  It is not as rich or tasty, but still quite good.

------------------------------

At this year's Candlemas Feast in Bryn Gwlad, each course was heralded by a

special performance presentation as the head table was served the dish.

Mistress Mari graciously agreed to make the presentation of the Finnish

meatloaves, performing the following poem to drum accompanyment by Master

Cynric of Bedwyn.

 

BEOLOAF

A presentation poem for the Candlemas Feast in Saxon style

composed and performed by Chieftess Mari ferch Rathyen

 

"Bring meat to us!" the baron bade,

"Our guests to feast with noble fare!"

Like grim Skadi, skillful huntress,

Gunnora dressed and gathered hard weapons,

Hunting the woods for horned stag.

Cruel barbs flew straight and bright blood burst.

Crimson haunches she hauled to larder.

Then flashed the cleaver, cutting and hacking,

Grinding the flesh of the forest king.

Cream from the cow with a look she curdled,

Then finest flour she flung to breadboard,

Punching and pounding the proud dough down.

With cross curses and cookpots flying

At quivering thralls, her quest she completed.

Now find fare from Karelian forests.

We serve before you meatloaves fashioned

In sour cream crust, crowned with gold,

Burnished by fire, food of Finland.

 

------------------------------

I received the following poem about the Finnish meatloaves from Master

Godwin Alfricsson while I was in the process of preparing Finnish

meatloaves to feed 300.  I laughed so hard I cried.

 

SIXTEEN LOAVES

by Master Godwin Alfricsson

Sing to the tune of "SIXTEEN TONS"

 

Some people say the SCA's nothin' but fun,

But Gunnora's thinking, "Now WHAT have I DONE!?!"

Candlemas wants her to cook up some food-

SIXTEEN meat loaves, well that ought to do!

 

REFRAIN:

She's baking Sixteen Loaves, an what'll she get?

    Hands all greasy, and a kitchen that's messed.

Featocrat don't bug her or else she won't go...

        she owes her soul to the wood burning stove.

 

When she took up the challenge, she thought three loaves would be fine.

Now they expect her to change water to wine!

Sixteen Loaves, or Water to Wine?

It makes no difference, cause they BOTH suck up time...

 

(refrain)

 

She awoke one morning, near Candlemas eve,

this task that they gave her made her want to heave.

Making Sixteen Loaves is a lot to do-

But they're FINNISH meat loaves

Now she's gotta make the dough too.

 

(refrain)

 

On Candlemas morning (never going to bed),

She picked up the meat loaves (although feeling "dead")

She put them on the wagon and she drove away-

The Feastocrat, wisely, just stayed out of her way.

 

(refrain- revised)

She brought 'em Sixteen Meat Loaves,

What'll she get? Probably an invitation to help clean up the event.

"Fellows don't you call me, because I've got to go-

I'm using my mace to break up that DAMN stove!

 

----------------------

Enjoy, all!

 

Gunnora Hallakarva

Herskerinde

 

 

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 07:07:18 -0700

From: ladymari at gila.net (Mary Hysong)

Subject: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]

 

On the question of 'Cornish' pasties, I sent this to Lady Lyddy Arundel an Gurnows, our resident Cornish expert and secretary of the Arizona Cornish Society.  Here is the original posts:

 

> > At 2:37 PM -0600 3/1/98, Tim Allison wrote:

> > >You mention making pasties with ground beef instead of mushroom. In what

> > >way do these differ from the traditional Cornish pasty-which I certainly

> > >thought was period?

> > >Caroline

> > >

> > > Carol Mitchell

> >

> > 1. What are the defining characteristics of the "traditional Cornish

> > pasty?" If it is simply some filling contained in some crust, that is

> > certainly period--but I think of it as more narrowly defined than that. If,  for example, the definition includes potatoes in the filling, then it cannot be earlier than Columbus and is quite likely to be out of our period entirely.

> >

> > 2. What is your reason for thinking it is period?

> >

> > David/Cariadoc

> > http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

> **********************************

 

and Lady Lyddy's reply:

 

> When did Columbus go out of period???

>

> I can give you the pasty receipes in period if they want them but they

> aren't Cornish receipes.

>

> More than you ever wanted to know about pasties:

>

> The "traditional" Cornish Pasty of steak, suit, Swedes, onion and potato

> is late period but that filling would only appear when such dream food

> was available.

>

>   The word pasty is period because it was a Roman invention.  I have

> period receipes titled pasties. Pastry was called paste, something

> wrapped (usually a whole bird) in paste was called a "pasty" .

>   In 1300, pasties are mentioned in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, The

> Cook’s Tale.  “All of pasties be the walls of flesh, of fish, and rich

> meat.”  And it appears the cook was a rogue who reheated his pasties and

> pies.  But though this proves the term to be in use, there is nothing in

> the wording to indicate that these were of the Cornish variety.

>

>  In July 1537, one John Hussee sent to Queen Jane Seymour “three pasties

> of the red deer, caused to be baked without lard.  “I trust this pasty

> reached (thee) in better condition than a pie of partridge sent

> before.”  History assures us that the pasty did her no great harm even

> though, according to a researcher, she was in France at the time.  One

> could more easily conclude that it was a pasty that was sent, for no

> other dish was so notoriously famous for its durability.

>

>  If the idea of wrapping things in pastry came with the Romans, then it

> is most likely that that is when the Cornish began the habit because

> people looked for ways of adding grain to their sad diets.  In the case

> of Cornwall, this pastry was usually barley pastry and filled with

> pilchards, eel, other fish and whatever else presented itself and not

> much of that.

> >

> The Cornish Pasty of history is more of a particular design than of

> content.  Barley pastry rolled out round, filled with whatever was at

> hand, folded in half and sealed with a fancy thick roll that went the

> length of it.

>   The dough was so hard, it was practically inedible. The men carried

> them in their shirts! Jokes were made of how many fathomes they could be

> dropped in the mine before breaking. But function was the key here. They

> were portable lunch boxes for the miners and the farmers.

>

> Mining has been going on in Cornwall since before the Celts in 1000 BC.

> The tin ore  being mined contained arsenic, the roll provides a handle

> which was then thrown away to the mine rats. If they began taking

> pasties of that design into the mines when they went underground in

> 1500, then its not too big a step to presume that they weren't invented

> over night.

>

> Lady Lyddy Arundel an Gurnows

> Arizona Cornish

 

 

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 22:04:32 -0700

From: ladymari at gila.net (Mary Hysong)

Subject: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]

 

A Reply from Lady Lyddy about the pasties.

 

Mairi

--------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 01:23:57 -0800

From: yolyddy at GILA.NET (Linda Carnahan)

Organization: Innovative System Design

To: Mary Hysong <ladymari at gila.net>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]]

 

Obviously I'm not getting my point across, let me try again.

 

The pasty that we prefer today and which the Cornish have decided is

their very own, is nothing like what would be found in period in

Cornwall.  But it would resemble it in looks. Kind of like a tunic made

out of 50/50 cotton with rayon trim. And it would taste much better.

  The references to period pasties that I have are the same as those

that have been eaten in Cornwall for centuries.

   Of the receipes that I have, they can be fried, baked or boiled. But

they are all shaped the same as the pasty we know in Cornwall. The

Cornish cooked on the same iron plate with the domed lid that the Irish

used as late as the 17th century so we know they baked them.  The

filling is whatever was available. Probably eel or pilchards.  Barley

flour would be common. Sometimes they ate grass but for our purposes,

you could use just about anything because the ports of Cornwall brought

in all sorts of goods from everywhere. And especially during the Roman

occupation, when they were payed good Roman coins for their tin, they

could afford just about anything. Or, if you took into account the

Cornish Wreckers, you could say, "Whatever washed ashore." :)

 

But you won't find a specific reference to a Cornishman eating a pasty

in period.  Few written accounts survive.  I don't remember specifically

but I'll look through Carew's Survey again, if I find something, I'll

send it.  That was sent in 1602 so was compiled in the late 1598, 99 I

believe.

 

Look at these books... Pleyn Delit the Second Edition and The Medieval

CookBook by Maggie Black.

 

Also, Chaucer's The Cook's Tale.

 

Lyddy

 

 

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:08:14 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]

 

> >A Reply from Lady Lyddy about the pasties.

>

        <deleted>

> >   Of the receipes that I have, they can be fried, baked or boiled. But

> >they are all shaped the same as the pasty we know in Cornwall. The

> >Cornish cooked on the same iron plate with the domed lid that the Irish

> >used as late as the 17th century so we know they baked them.

>

> Interesting.  How early do we know the Cornish, or other people for that

> matter, cooked on an iron plate with a domed lid and how do we know it?

 

The oven in question appears to be a derivative of the cloche oven.  The

cloche oven consists of a clay bake stone covered with a clay bowl, usually

with a handle on the base of the bowl.  An Athenian example can be seen in

the illustrations of Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery.

 

It may be that the oven design was introduced to the British Isles through

the ancient tin trade and was later reproduced in more durable iron, but

that is purely speculation.

 

> >Look at these books... Pleyn Delit the Second Edition and The Medieval

> >CookBook by Maggie Black.

>

> My _Pleyn Delit_ says it is revised but does not seem to say second

> edition; the one pasty it has is a whole chicken covered with dough, hence

> not at all similar to a Cornish pasty. I don't think I have Maggie Black.

>

        <deleted>

 

> David/Cariadoc

 

I've got Black.  If I remember correctly, she is dealing with the larger

coffins.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:08:39 EST

From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain)

Subject: SC - Recipes x3

 

M'Lords and M'Ladys,

        I thought people might enjoy these.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Pork Pie

        From "To the King's Taste" by Lorna Sass; Printed in The

Oregonian Newspaper Food Day Mar 10, 1998.

        Legend has it that a false crust was baked on top of an empty pie

shell. Just before it was served, live birds were placed under the pastry

lid, Our "smale bridde" will have a different fate: it will be cooked and

eaten.

        1 10-inch uncooked pie shell

        1 Cornish hen, quail or squab, cut into about 8 pieces

        1/2 cup all-purpose flour, seasoned with salt and pepper

        2 tb vegetable oil

        1 lb lean ground pork

        2 eggs

        1/4 cup raisins

        10 dried prunes, pitted and minced

        1 ts firmly packed light brown sugar

        1/2 ts ground ginger

        3/4 ts salt

        Scant 1/2 ts saffron

        1/2 ts ground anis

        1 ts ground fennel seeds

        1/2 ts ground cloves

        Bake pie pastry at 425 deg for 10 minutes. Let cool. Dredge

pieces of fowl in seasoned flour and brown in oil until golden. Combine

pork, eggs, rasins, prunes, brown sugar, ginger salt, saffron, anise,

fennel and cloves. Spread about a third of the mixture on the pie pastry.

Then

distribute the pecies of fowl evenly on top of it. Use the remaining pork

mixture to cover the fowl. Bake at 375 deg for 35 minutes or until pork

is brown throughout and meat thermometer stuck in middle of pie registers

160 degees

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Korrin S. DaArdain

Dodging trees in the Kingdom of An Tir.

Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:05:23 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Recipes x3

 

Tartee, Form of Curye 172

 

Take pork ysode; hewe it and bray it. Do therto ayren, raisouns corauns,

sugur and powdour of gynger, powdour douce, and small briddes theramong,

and white grece. Take prunes, safroun, and salt; and make a crust in a

trap, and do the fars therin; and bake it wel and serue it forth.

 

(I've changed the thorns to th and the & to and).

- ---

Redacted version from The King's Taste (as posted here--I haven't checked

the original)

 

>       1 10-inch uncooked pie shell

>       1 Cornish hen, quail or squab, cut into about 8 pieces

>       1/2 cup all-purpose flour, seasoned with salt and pepper

>       2 tb vegetable oil

>       1 lb lean ground pork

>       2 eggs

>       1/4 cup raisins

>       10 dried prunes, pitted and minced

>       1 ts firmly packed light brown sugar

>       1/2 ts ground ginger

>       3/4 ts salt

>       Scant 1/2 ts saffron

>       1/2 ts ground anis

>       1 ts ground fennel seeds

>       1/2 ts ground cloves

>       Bake pie pastry at 425 deg for 10 minutes. Let cool. Dredge

>pieces of fowl in seasoned flour and brown in oil until golden. Combine

>pork, eggs, rasins, prunes, brown sugar, ginger salt, saffron, anise,

>fennel and cloves. Spread about a third of the mixture on the pie pastry.

>Then distribute the pieces of fowl evenly on top of it. Use the remaining pork

>mixture to cover the fowl. Bake at 375 deg for 35 minutes or until pork

>is brown throughout and meat thermometer stuck in middle of pie registers

>160 degees

- --

Differences:

 

1. The pork has not been boiled in advance as in the original.

2. The currants have been converted into raisins

3. The birds have been floured and browned, where in the original they were

simply put in raw.

4. The author then omits the "white grease" that is an ingredients in the

mixture for the original--although one could argue that point 3 above makes

up for that.

 

Also, the author apparently believes that "powdour douce" contains anis,

fennel, and cloves, but not cinnamon, which I think unlikely.

 

A nice illustration of why one should never trust a secondary source unless

the primary is included so that you can check the one against the other.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

From: troy at asan.com (Phil Troy)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: question: parmesan tart

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:07:51 -0500

 

mmy at innocent.com wrote:

> Anybody have any ideas what this parmesan tart might have been like;

> sweet, savoury, made exclusively from parmesan or merely using it as

> the most notable ingredient?

 

Actually, neither.

> I would appreciate any comments.

> /muireann

 

Parmesan Tarts are so called because they are _said_ to have originated in

Parma, Italy (hey, the cheese apparently didn't originate there, either!).

They really are similar to a number of other contemprary pie recipes under

other names, particularly the ones which are made to look like castle

towers, with pastry crenellations, banners made from wooden skewers, etc.

Typical fillings would include slices or chunks of boiled or semi-roasted

pork or mutton, garnished with poultry quarters (remember such pies were

fairly large and tall), sprinkled with powdered spices, topped with beaten

egg, and they may or may not have required a top crust. Finely chopped

pine nuts and currants would be optional in the filling. Recipes for pies

like this appear in Le Viandier de Taillevent [recipe #197?] and in, I

think, Le Menagier de Paris. You can also find similar pie recipes, not

specifically identified as Parmerienne, all over the usual English/French

14th-15th-century sources.  

 

A version made for fish-days (made from fish, naturally enough) is found

in Chiquart's Du Fait de Cuisine, and the length and detail of Chiquart's

recipe  suggests the dish was one of the main showpieces for his feast.

BTW, as I recall he specifically states that cheese _should not_ be added

to the filling (a fairly common taboo even today, where fish dishes are

concerned); that suggests some people did include it, although I'm not

aware of any surviving recipe calling for it.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 01:17:04 -0500

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: Re: SC - A cook in need!!

 

In Hieatt, Constance B. _An Ordinance of Pottage_, Prospect Books,

London, 1988, ISBN 0 907325 38 6, p. 207, #137 is Bakyn mete opyn.  This

type of 'baked meat' differs from a 'crustad', and from a modern quiche,

in that it does not contain egs or any other real thickener.  It is thus

apt to be a bit runny, and is best served in individual tart shells,

either hot or cold. It will have a firmer filling if cold, but is very

tast hot.

 

Kidney Tart

4-6 individual pastry tart shells               1/2 tsp. sugar

1 veal kidney                           1/2 t. salt

3/4 lb. boneless veal stew meat         pinch of ground cloves

3/4 C. whipping cream                   pinch of saffron

 

Boil the veal in lightly salted water for about 10 minutes.  Separate,

and reserve a little of, the kidney suet.  Chop the kidney finely and

boil for 5 minutes.  Cool the meat enough to handle, then dice it

(1/4"-1/2" cubes).  Mix it in a bowl with the reserved diced suet, cream

and seasonings.. Pour the mixture into the tart shells and bake for about

40 minutes, until nicely brown and not too runny in a 375* oven.

 

This would be a fore-runner of the traditional English pie, although it

has no mushrooms, and does not appear to have a top crust. What it does

have is both the meat and the kidney.  Modern ones thicken the juices

with flour for gravy, according to a delicious one I had at a pub near

the V&A.

 

Allison

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:53:14 -0500 (CDT)

From: jeffrey stewart heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Greetings!

 

In Alia Atlas' webbed translation of Ein Buch von guter Speise, there are

recipes for meat/apple/bacon, and cheese/bacon pasties. They are really

good, and I made them hand held for a luncheon I did for a German class.

 

Bogdan din Brasov

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:11:30 -0400

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: SC - Meat Pies

 

>pouch type meat pies, not as in selling slices of a meat pie. That would

>be a little difficult to walk around a medieval fair with.

>

>Celadon

 

Well, at the risk of losing all of my credibility on this list (and

perhaps my lofty perch as a stained glass window) my absolute favorite

meat pie is out of *gasp* Fabulous Feasts.  The Galantine Pie with

Galangale Sauce is just delicious hot or cold (even better the second or

third day), and I imagine would do quite well done up as a pocket type

pie rather than an open dish type pie.  As the thickener is a vinegar and

stock with bread crumbs (which I find works much better if you make it

separately in a saucepan and then pour it over the pie mixture) I think

it would hold together quite well.  (Put all of your [non-pastry] pie

ingredients in a bowl, make the sauce, pour it over the other

ingredients, mix well, and it has already set up pretty well).

 

Mistress Christianna MacGrain, OP, Meridies

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:35:05 -0500 (CDT)

From: jeffrey stewart heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Greetings!

 

> And the recipe is..........

> Genevia

 

Straight from her webpage...

Sorry for the Spoon Tease...

Bogdan

- ----

Recipe 44: A good Cheese and Bacon Pasty

 

copyright 1994 Alia Atlas

     1 lb cheddar cheese, chopped small or grated

     3 eggs

     1/2 lb bacon

 

Preheat oven to 350 F. Put bacon in a pot with water. Bring to a boil.

Cook for 10 minutes, or until done. Chop bacon into

bite-sized pieces. Mix bacon with cheese and eggs. For a good pasty dough,

see recipe 19. Form pasties and fill with mixtures.

Be careful not to overfill the pasties, so that cheese will not leak when

they are baking. Put pasties on greased foil-lined baking

sheet and cook at 350 F for 30 minutes, or until done.

Recipe 5*: Heathen Cake

 

copyright 1994 Alia Atlas

 

     2 lb beef

     1/2 lb fatty bacon

     2 apples (used Granny Smith)

     2 eggs

     1/2 tsp pepper

 

Boil beef for about 15 minutes. Chop meat into bite-sized pieces. Put

bacon in pot with water. Bring to a boil. Cook for 10

minutes, or until done. Chop bacon into bite-sized pieces. Skin, core and

chop apples into bite-sized pieces. Mix beef, bacon,

apples, eggs and pepper together. Use to fill a pasty or tart. For a good

dough, see recipe 19. Bake at 350 F for 30 minutes.

 

Pasty Dough:

 

This is a nice egg dough, which is easy to work with. This recipes makes

enough to cover 1 to 2 times the salmon filling,

depending on size of pasties. This recipe is also used as part of recipe

92, a Pork and Cheese tart, as part of recipe 15, a Fish

or Meat Pasty, and as part of recipe 44, a Cheese and Bacon Pasty.

 

     4 1/4 cups flour

     1/2 cup butter

     2 eggs

     1/3 cup water

     1 tsp salt (optional)

     1 tsp sugar (optional)

 

Pour 4 cups flour into bowl. Heap into mound. Make a hollow at the center.

Add an egg. Mix in. Repeat. Add softened butter.

Mix in gently. Add water gradually, until dough is a good texture. Add

remaining flour as needed. This should be rollable

without adding flour.

 

 

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:05:51 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Yeast dough instead of pastry

 

<snip>

>ah, but the original question remains...do we have documentation for them

>being with a yeasty dough rather than the usual pastry?

>

>All the coffyns I've seen mentioned in primary sources imply regular

>pastry, some with rye for sturdiness (like as specified for venison).

>

>Anyone else?

>--AM

 

Hello!  Here are 2 recipes, taken from "Take 1000 Eggs".  They both call

for the filling to be enclosed in 'dow', rather than 'paste'.  What kind of

dough they are referring to is open to speculation.

 

Harleian MS. 279 - Leche Vyaundez

xli.  Raynolle[3].  Nym sode Porke & chese, & se[th]e y-fere, & caste

[th]er-to gode pouder Pepir, Canelle, Gyngere, Clowes, Mac[e][3], an close

[th]in comade in dow, & frye it in freysshe grece ry[3]t wel; an [th]anne

serue it forth.

 

41.  Raynolle[3].  Take seethed Pork & cheese, & seethe together, & cast

thereto good powdered Pepper, Cinnamon, Ginger, Cloves, Mac[e]s, and close

thine mixture in dough, & fry it in fresh grease very well; and then serve

it forth.

 

Harleian MS. 279 - Leche Vyaundez

xlvij.  Rapeye.  Take dow, & make [th]er-of a [th]inne kake; [th]anne take

Fygys & raysonys smal y-grounde, & temper hem with Almaunde Milke; take

pouder of Pepir, & of Galyngale, Clowes, & menge to-gederys, & ley on

[th]in kake a-long as bene koddys, & ouer-caste [th]in kake to-gederys, &

dewte on [th]e eggys, an frye in Oyle, & serue forth.

 

47.  Rapeye.  Take dough, & make thereof a thin cake; then take Figs &

raisins small ground, & mix them with Almond Milk; take powder of Pepper,

& of Galingale, Cloves, & mix together, & lay on thine cake lengthwise as

bean-cods, & turn over thine cake together, & dip in the eggs, and fry in

Oil, & serve forth.

 

In addition, the recipes for Rastons are basically a cooked loaf filled

with something (in this case clarified butter) and re-baked.  The loaf acts

as a coffyn.

 

There is another recipe in Forme of Cury (p. 72) where a loaf is filled &

boiled like a pudding:

 

xx vii. xix. Wastels yfarced:

Take a Wastel and hewe out [th]e crinnes.  take ayren & shepis talow &

[th]e crinn of [th]e same Wastell powdor fort & salt wt Safron and Raisons

corance. & medle alle [th]ise yfere & do it in [th]e Wastel. close it &

bynde it fast togidre. and see[th] it wel.

 

The main problem with using uncooked bread dough for a coffin is that it

does not hold a raised shape without a baking dish.  You can make a filled

round loaf, or a cylinder, but not a raised pie.  I've done a

traffic-stopping meat pie using 2 loaves worth of bread dough & a

spring-form pan, but off the top of my head I don't recall seeing such a

thing in a medieval recipe.

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th

Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing

Recipes"

http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:05:54 -0500

From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)

Subject: Re: SC - Tartys in Applis-NEW recipe-enjoy

 

Tyrca wrote:

>Very interesting, Ras, and it brings up a question that I have had for

>some time, about mincemeat.  I grew up with mincemeat pies for

>Christmas as something with _meat_ in them.  My mother usually used

>leftover roast beef or venison, put it through a hand grinder, and

>added the apples and raisins, and canned the filling to use for the

>holidays.  It is my father's favorite.  As I grew older, and went more

>out into the world, I discovered that other people I talked to had

>never heard of meat in mince pies.  They thought I was crazy.

>

>Did they really use meat in mincemeat pies in period? Or is my family

>just an abberation?  Any recipes?  Anyone?

 

Fruit in medieval meat pies was a very common occurance.

 

Actually, until the second half of the fifteenth century recipes for meat

pies with fruit seem to be much more common than for fruit pies without

meat. Many meat pies were baked in a heavy flour and water crust that

served mostly as a container for the ingredients and could stand up under

long cooking times. Some writer's have claimed that the innovation of a

lighter and more edible pie crust and suggested that this new pie crust

made the fruit pies (which needed shorter cooking times) much more popular.

 

This is all supposition on the part of the historians so I set out to see

if I could verify it by scanning a number of cookbooks for recipes for

fruit pies that did not include meat. Out of about twenty English, French

and German cookbooks from the 14th to 16th century one percent or fewer

recipes were for fruit pies in the earlier two centuries while twelve

percent of all the 16th century recipes were for fruit only pies.

 

These are imperfect statistics since most of my 16th C. sources were German

- - so it might be a regional fad.

 

Valoise

 

 

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:12:05 -0800

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - meat pies

 

hi all from Anne-Marie

 

we are asked about non-sweet meat pies...

 

round here some favorites are:

- --tartes of flessche (14-15th c. English). USe less fruit for less sweet

flavor

- --ramequins of flesche (17th c. French. decide for yourself if its period

enough or not :)). Meatloaf flavored with herbs and served with lemon

- --pastellum (13th c. N. European). Chicken with sage and bacon in pastry

- --the one we recently did from Sabina Welsin that's chicken and bacon and

grapes in pastry (yum!!!!!)

- --turkey in the french fashion (17th c. English) turkey with grapes, nuts,

etc in pastry

 

the thing is that the medieval palate thought meat and sugar was a really

great combo. So do modern palates (how many people put katsup on

everything?), actually. If you find that many already reconstructed recipes

contain too much fruit or sugar for your taste, feel free to decrease it

from a main ingredient to just enough to make things interesting.

 

Hope this helps! Let me know if you'd like any specific recipes...I'm

pretty sure many of those have been posted earlier.

- --AM

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:03:31 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - meat pies

 

gwyneth/Gail Young wrote:

>...I have several period recipes for meat pies.  They all end up

>with a sweet flavor.  Is there any period basis for a non-sweet or mostly

>non-sweet meat pie?

>

>From the Miscellany:

 

Koken van Honer

Grewe 13th century

 

One should make a pastry shell of dough, and cut up into it a chicken, and

add bacon (speck), cut as peas, pepper and cumin and egg yolks well beaten

with saffron, and take the shell and bake it in an oven. It is called

"koken van honer." [end of original]

 

1/2 chicken: 1 1/2 lb or 3/4 lb boned   4 threads saffron      1/8 pepper

3 pieces of bacon       1/4 t cumin     9" pie shell

6 egg yolks

 

Bone and cut up chicken, put in pie shell; add bacon cut small; sprinkle on

spices. Beat egg yolks with saffron and pour over. Bake 45 minutes at 350°.

 

Malaches of Pork

Curye on Inglysch p. 134 (Form of Cury no. 162)

 

Hewe pork al to pecys and medle it with ayren & chese igrated. Do therto

powdour fort, safroun & pynes with salt. Make a crust in a trap; bake it

wel therinne, and serue it forth. [end of original; thorns replaced by th]

 

13 oz boneless pork     3/4 t powder fort*      1/4 c pine nuts

3 eggs  8 threads saffron       1/2 t salt

1/2 lb parmesan cheese

 

Cut up the pork raw into 1/2"-1/4" cubes. Grate cheese and mix with eggs in

a bowl. Crush saffron into a teaspoon or so of water. Combine everything.

Make a 9" pie crust, prebake about 10 minutes at 350°. Put filling in crust

and bake at 350° for 45-50 minutes.

 

We have also used mozzarella and cheddar for the cheese, but parmesan is

better.

 

*Powder fort is a spice mixture mentioned in various period recipes; we

have not yet been able to find a description of what spices it contains.

What we use is a mixture containing, by weight: 1 part cloves, 1 part mace,

1 part cubebs, 7 parts cinnamon, 7 parts ginger, and 7 parts pepper, all

ground. This is a guess, based on very limited evidence; it works well for

the dishes in which we have tried it.

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:25:49 -0600

From: maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com>

Subject: Re: SC - meat pies

 

Here is the recipe and the source:

 

Lombard Chicken Pasties:

From:  The Medieval Cookbook by Maggie Black

 

12 oz shortcrust or puff pastry

2 eggs, beaten

2 tablespoons verjuice or lemon juice

1/8 freshly ground black pepper

1/2 teaspoon ground ginger

1 lb chicken breast meet cut into small slices

3 large rashers streaky or back bacon trimmed of fat and cut in half

 

Roll out pastry and cut into six large circles each 6 1/2 inches across.

Rest it while making the filling.  Pre heat oven to 425 deg F.

Mix the beaten egg with the verjuice or lemon juice, pepper and ginger.  Dip

the slices of poultry meat in the mixture, then divide between the pastry

circles, placing them on one side of the round but not up to the edge.  

 

Lay a piece of bacon on each pile.  Brush edge of pastry with any remaining egg mixture. Fold over pastry and seal edges.  Prick pastry in several places with a fork.

 

Bake for 15 minutes at 425 deg F.

Reduce oven to 375 deg F and cook for an additional 20-25 minutes.

 

These pasties freeze well and are great for lunch at an event.

 

Meadhbh

 

 

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:22:12 -0400

From: "Stephen and Stephanie Dale" <sdale at mx00.us.hsanet.net>

Subject: SC - Re: Veal and Ham Pie

 

This recipe is from _The Cooking of the British Isles_ from the Foods of the

World collection from Time-Life books.

 

Veal and Ham Pie

To serve 6 or 8.

 

2 tbsp butter, softened

2 lbs lean boneless veal, cut into 1/4" cubes

1 lb lean smoked ham, cut into 1/4" cubes

1/4 c chopped parsley

6 tbsp brandy

6 tbsp stock

2 tbsp lemon juice

1 tsp lemon peel

1 tsp sage

2 tsp salt

1/4 tsp black pepper

hot-water pastry

4 hard-cooked eggs

8 to 10 pickled walnuts (optional)

1 egg yolk combines with 1 tbsp heavy cream

1 envelope unflavoured gelatine

2 cups chicken stock

 

Perheat oven to 350. Butter the sides and bottom of a loaf pan. In a large

bowl, combine veal, ham, parsley, brandy, the 6 tbsp of stock, lemon juice

and peel, sage, salt and pepper. Mix thoroughly.

Break off about 1/3 of the pastry, and set it aside. Roll out the remaining

pastry on a lightly floured surface to a 10" x 20" x 1/4" rectangle. Drape

the pastry over the rolling pin, lift it up, and unroll it slackly over the

loaf pan. Gently press the pastry into the pan. Roll the pin over the pan to

cut off excess pastry.

Spoon enough of the veal and ham mixture into the pan until it is a little

less than half full. Arrange the hard-cooked eggs in a single row down the

center of the mold, and line up the pickled walnuts on either side of the

eggs. Cover eggs with remaining meat mixture, filling the shell to within

one inch of the top.

Roll remaining pastry into a 4 x 13' rectangle, 1/4" thick. Drape it over

the pan. Trim off excess with a small knife and flute the edges together.

Then cut a 1' hole in the center of the pie. use the remaining pastry to cut

out decorative shapes, attaching them to the pastry with the egg-and-cream

mixture. (They suggest a leaf pattern around the hole). Brush the entire

surface with the egg-and-cream mixture.

Bake pie in the middle of the oven for 2 hours, until top is a deep golden

brown. remove from oven and cool 15 minutes.

(Aspic Jelly)

In a saucepan add the gelatin to the two cups chicken stock. Allow to stand

for a bit to allow the gelatin to soften. Then simmer over low heat,

stirring constantly, until gelatine dissolves completely. Pour gelatin

through a funnel into the hole in the pie. Cool the pie to room temp., and

then refrigerate for at least 6 hours. Ideally the pie should stand 1/2 hour

before being served to take the chill off.

To unmold and serve pie, run a sharp knife around the inside edges of the

mold and dipp the bottom of the pan in hot water. Wipe dry, then place plate

over mold and invert. Rap the plate on a table and the pie should slide out

easily. Turn pie over and serve in 1/2" slices.

 

Hot Water Pastry

 

5 c flour

1/2 tsp salt

10 tbsp lard

6 tbsp milk

2 tbsp water

 

Combine flour and salt in deep bowl. Warm lard, milk and water over moderate

heat, stirring until lard melts.

beat the mixture into the flour a little at a time, until the flour can be

gathered up into a ball. Knead dough for 2 -3 min. on floured surface until

smooth and elastic. Roll into ball; place in a bowl and let rest thirty

minutes with a damp towel over it.

 

Now for some history of "raised pies", which is what this is considered in

Britain. The english invented pie more than 600 years ago. "Hand raised

pies," or meat pies, are made with a hot water pastry that can be shaped by

hand into the box shape around the meat filling. These were called "coffyns"

in the Middle Ages, and often served with aspic jelly on top.

Piers Plowman describes the eating of "hote pies" in the 1300's. The

Elizabethans cooked hand raised pies of this type, using butter for the

pastry and clarified butter instead of the gelatin. Thyme, sage and marjoram

were commonly used spices, in moderation. These pies were sold by traveling

piemen, and the clarified butter served to seal air out of the pie so that

it did not go bad as quickly.

 

Since someone mentioned a leek loaf, there is also a recipe for Chicken and

Leek pie in this book which is apparently very popular in Wales. No mention

of the periodness of it however. Anyone want it posted?

 

Aislinn

 

 

Date: Mon,  9 Aug 1999 15:47:29 -0400 (EDT)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: SC - medievaloid pork pie "recipe"

 

I made a medievaloid/germanish pork pie yesterday, and figured I'd share

the, for want of a better word for it, recipe.  Now, understand, that I

tend to cook just like the medieval cookbooks talk, so the portions and

times are a bit nebulous.  YMMV, but it should tolerate deviations of

various sorts.  Here goes.  By the way, if anyone knows of a medieval

recipe that this approximates, please let me know:

 

Ingredients:

 

2 lbs ground pork

about 4 slices large red onion, chopped

1 handful parsley, chopped

1 small handful raisins

1 large Granny Smith apple, peeled, cored, and chopped

salt and pepper

sage

2 hard boiled eggs, chopped

Several handfuls of grated cheese (I used the 6-blend Italian from kraft)

3 raw eggs

nutmeg

top and bottom pie crust for a 9" pie

 

Heat oven to around 350F. Saute the onions until transparent, set aside.

Brown pork, add parsley while browning.  If the pork is particular

greasy, drain it, otherwise don't bother (I didn't need to yesterday)

Add all other ingredients except raw eggs and cheese and stir until

warm, spices are to taste -- a few sprinkles of each should suffice.  Be

very careful with sage -- it is very, very easy to oversage things.

Remove from heat, and let mixture cool a little.  Stir in the cheese

(note, the cheese is a flavoring element, not a truly structural

element) Let mixture cool a little, beat the raw eggs and stir them into

the mixture.  Pour into pie shell, put on cover, vent, and cook in the

oven until done.  If you cook the pork all the way through in the

skillet, this is just long enough to set the eggs (15 - 20 minutes) --

otherwise, long enough to cook the pork throughly (check your favorite

cookbook for the appropriate temperature for pork).  Serve it forth.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:57:27 -0600 (MDT)

From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>

Subject: Re: SC - medievaloid pork pie "recipe"

 

On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Gretchen M Beck wrote:

> I made a medievaloid/germanish pork pie yesterday, and figured I'd share

> the, for want of a better word for it, recipe.  Now, understand, that I

> tend to cook just like the medieval cookbooks talk, so the portions and

> times are a bit nebulous.  YMMV, but it should tolerate deviations of

> various sorts.  Here goes.  By the way, if anyone knows of a medieval

> recipe that this approximates, please let me know:

 

This looks much like "Pies of Paris" from the 15-Century Cookbooks, and

(especially the use of the eggs) also looks like a couple of other meat

pie recipes from the English corpus.  Anyone remember the name of the

recipe?

 

mem

 

 

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:06:44 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - medievaloid pork pie "recipe"

 

Mary Morman wrote:

> This looks much like "Pies of Paris" from the 15-Century Cookbooks, and

> (especially the use of the eggs) also looks like a couple of other meat

> pie recipes from the English corpus.  Anyone remember the name of the

> recipe?

>

> mem

 

Possibly you're thinking of "Crustades of Flesh", normally using poultry

meat? Then you have flampoynts, which are similar except they use cheese

instead of eggs as a binder.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:40:41 +1000

From: lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: SC - Game Pie Help!

 

Good fortune to the List . . . I seek your help!

I have been perusing recipes on pies thru period sources. Everyone thus

far always discusses pre-cooking the meats contained therein prior to

the cooking of the pie.

 

I was particularly interested in Sabina Welserin's cookbook (thankyou

Valoise) which gave several versions of game pies:  all of which had the

meat cooked prior to placing in the pie.  (I note the previous thread re

pastry).

 

Basically, my father has developed an absolutely delicious game pie

recipe established thru trial, error & the assistance of Mssr Larousse.

It involves the making of "hot water pastry" (my dad's term), which is

rolled exceptionally thick & moulded into a deep casserole dish.

Interestingly enough, my father uses lard in his recipe for pastry & it

is made much the same as that suggested by Welserin.  The sides & bottom

of the pastry are covered in (spiced) pork mince to about an inch

thick.  Then a mixture of game (venison, wild duck, quails & rabbit

generally) is cut into bite-sized pieces tossed with some pieces of

bacon, spiced with black pepper, an'some (and some nutmeg, mace, mixed

spices . . . you get the idea).  All of which is deposited into the

pastry uncooked.  A piece of pastry is rolled to cover the pie with a

hole cut out of the middle for the steam to escape.  Then it is set to

cook for at least 2 hours . . . till it is done.

 

It has to be cooked in a reasonably slow oven with the pastry (except

for that hole) all covered by foil for about 30 mins to an hour - so the

pastry doesn't burn.  When it is cooled, the aspic which has been made

using the stock obtained from the bones of said game (cooked for about

the same time as the pie) is poured into the pie.  The pie ends up

looking something like a pork pie from the outside.  When carved, the

various meats compress into a solid mass of various colours (depending

on the flesh used).  The pie is best eaten when a day or so old as the

flavours sort of intermingle.  It is spectacular & delicious and since I

have found a purveyor of cheapish venison it is not that expensive to

make if just venison & rabbit are used.

 

So, to get back to my question . . . can anyone refer me to a period

recipe for meat/game pie where the meat is not cooked prior to entry

into pie as I am seriously considering the above for a feast, but would

like to make it fully documentable.

 

Thanks in advance,

Lorix

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:24:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Game Pie Help!

 

lorix wrote:

> It has to be cooked in a reasonably slow oven with the pastry (except

> for that hole) all covered by foil for about 30 mins to an hour - so the

> pastry doesn't burn.  When it is cooled, the aspic which has been made

> using the stock obtained from the bones of said game (cooked for about

> the same time as the pie) is poured into the pie.

 

Pies of this sort, using raw meats as a filling, and later filled up

with a flavorful liquid or other air excluder, seem to appear first in

17th-century English sources. Elinor Fettipace, Sir Hugh Plat, and

Kenelm Digby are all good sources for this sort of thing.

 

As descendants of the medival crustades, some pies of this sort, in the

early 17th century, seem to have a wine sauce, thickened with eggs,

poured into them. Later in the 17th century, many game pies are filled

with clarified butter for long keeping. I'm not sure when the first of

the aspic-filled pies occurs, but I wouldn't be surprised if the

practice occurs first in the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries.

 

On the other hand, many roast or baked meats have  a naturally occurring

jelly that congeals around the bottom of the meat as it cools. If one

were to simply add more, to keep the meat moist, it probably wouldn't be

especially amiss or out of character with meat pies to which no separate

sauce is added.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:47:19 -0600

From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>

Subject: Re: SC - cheese questions

 

> I am testing a recipe for Norwegian Pasties

>

> that has the following ingredients:

>

> Beef

> semisoft cheese

> pine nuts, currants

> salt/pepper, and ginger.

 

That's pretty much the recipe I am using but the recipe is pretty ambiguious.

It says to take meat or fish and add new cheese (optional with fish), currants

(optional with fish), pine nuts (optional with fish), and spices. Place in a

dough or make turnovers and bake or fry.

 

> You put the above ingredients in a pie shell and make sort of a turnover,

> or at least that's the way I've read it, and I was wondering what cheese

> people recommend as a soft cheese?

 

Well we are planning on a mozzerella or, better, Mexican queso blanco which

is a good new cheese. I'm making mine with cheese, aromatic spices, and some

with fish, some with turkey. Turkey because I wanted something other than

chicken again.

 

>         Angeline

 

Gunthar

 

 

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:59:13 SAST-2

From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za>

Subject: SC - Re: cheese question

 

Angeline said:

> I am testing a recipe for Norwegian Pasties

> that has the following ingredients:

> Beef

> semisoft cheese

> pine nuts, currants

> salt/pepper, and ginger.

> > YOu put the above ingredients in a pie shell and make sort of a turnover,

> > or at least that's the way I've read it, and I was wondering what cheese

> > people recommend as a soft cheese?

 

Hmmm, this sounds very like the rather good Nourroys Pies recipe from

Taillevent (I know it from Cariadoc's Miscellany):

 

"Take meat well cooked and hashed fine, pine nuts, currants and

cottage cheese chopped fine, and a little sugar and a little salt.

To make little Lorez pies, like great pies or those above, and fry

them, and don't let them be too large, and whoever wishes to make

"lettuces" or "little ears," must make rounds of pastry, the one

larger than the other, and fry in deep fat until they are as hard as

if cooked on the hearth; and if you wish, gild them with gold leaf or

silver leaf or saffron."

 

These are really good with cottage cheese (I make them with chicken):

surely you could interpret "semisoft cheese" as cottage cheese?  It

makes a very moist pie filling with a wonderful flavour.

 

Lady Jehanne de Huguenin  *  Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town

(Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town)

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:28:47 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - why not turkey?

 

Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:

> Ooooohhhhhh........Game pie!........  :-)

> Do you have a recipe? sounds yummy!

 

Not specifically... modern practice would be to either make a sort of

stew or salmi of the chosen game and put it into puff pastry, or make a

standing hot-water pie dough and fill it with raw game, bake, drain off

the juice and replace it with a wine-flavored stock aspic, allow it to

gel and serve cold.

 

Late-period practice (or one of them) would be to make a free-standing

hot-water dough, bake as above, only replacing the juice with a sauce

made of wine and egg yolks, or filling the space with clarified butter

for longer keeping.

 

You might check out recipes in sources like Hugh Plat or Kenelm Digby,

under the general heading of "to bake a turkey".

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:55:48 +1100

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Game pie recipe=LONG, was why not turkey

 

Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:

> Ooooohhhhhh........Game pie!........  :-)

> Do you have a recipe? sounds yummy!

 

A Game Pie Recipe

This is a family recipe so bear with me as I try to remember it.  The meat is

not cooked before being placed in pie & so the pie needs to be cooked in a

moderate oven for up to 4 hours to allow all of the meat to cook thoroughly.

After it has cooled, an aspic is made & poured through the steam hole in the

pastry to thoroughly coat the top of the meat (like the pork pies you can buy.

The following measures are predicated on the pie being cooked in a round

(ceramic) container with top diameter=30cm & depth of bowl = 20cm.  It is a BIG

pie.

 

PASTRY

500g lard

400ml water

1300g flour

* Dissolve lard in boiling water, stirring it until thoroughly mixed & then add

it to the flour.  Mix thoroughly & divide mixture using 2/3 for base & 1/3 for

top.  Roll out while still warm & line pan.  This pastry recipe has a

deliberately a high fat content.  It withstands the slow cooking process well,

although when you put the completed pie in the oven, you should cover it with

alfoil & cook initially with the alfoil for over 2 hours.

 

PIE

OK, this is where we get really rough in measurements, 'cause it works on 'what

you think is right'!  Basically you need about 2kg of pork mince, 1/2 kg of

streaky bacon with rinds removed & up to 2-3 kg (depends on size of pie) of game

of your choice.  Generally, we try to use a mixture of white & red meats as this

gives it a very distinctive taste & appearance.  As my father had a farm &

hunted, this used to be prepared with whatever game was in the house (eg. wild

duck, rabbit, hare, quail, pheasant & venison).  At a bare minimum, it is best

made with venison & rabbit, although turkey may be OK as a substitute or

addition to this mix.

 

For this to taste its best, there is a lot of wastage, since all sinews & fats

should be removed from the meats otherwise, the meat will toughen.

 

To start the pie, the pastry should be rolled out to about 1/2 cm thickness &

then placed into the cooking pan.  It will need to be worked to get it to fit

properly in the container & has a tendency to shrink while you are working it.

Because of the high fat content in the pie, once the pastry has cooled, if you

have formed it in a spring form pan, you can remove the exterior, since the

sides become very hard (coffyn like :-).

 

The pork mince is usually mixed with a variety of spices (nutmeg, mace, ginger,

black pepper etc).  Most of it is used to form a fairly thick lining over the

base & the sides of the pastry.  1/3 of the mixed game (also spiced as suits

your taste) is loosely thrown into the base of the pie. This is then covered

with overlapping strips of bacon & spiced with black pepper on top.  Then

another layer of mixed game, then a layer of bacon, then the last layer of game

covered with bacon.

 

A little of the pork mince is then spread on the top as a sort of buffer.  Small

"toweres" are also made out of the mince (basically mince balls).  These towers

are spread about the top of the pie & designed to lift the pastry off the meat

by about 2cm & allow an air flow & stop the pastry from sagging.  Again, because

of the high fat content in the pastry, if such artifices are not used, the

pastry sags on to the meat & does not rise & becomes very soggy from the meat

juices released in the cooking process.

 

A round hole is cut thru the pastry in the middle with a diameter of at least

1cm.  Small cuts can also be made in other areas of the pie.  Pastry decorations

can be added to the pie at this stage.  Alfoil covers the pie, although a hole

must also be cut in the alfoil to sit over the hole in the pastry.  To stop the

pastry burning, the alfoil is sort of tucked into the hole a little, before

puling it firmly around the edges.

 

Now, it is then cooked for about 4 hours at about 180oC. After about 2 hours,

the pie should be removed from the oven to check the colour of the meat juices.

Enormous quantities of meat juices are released when cooking this dish.

Usually, the precautions of propping up the pastry & perhaps leaving a hollow in

the meat under the center steam hole is enough to allow these meat juices to

escape as steam.  Sometimes, however, they will be released & bubble up thru the

hole & over the pastry(Pastry will then burn on the outside :-(.  This usually

will happen after 1 1/2 - 2 hours of cooking.  If the hole looks like it is

going to overflow, some of the juices may need to be spooned or siphoned out.

The pie should be covered by alfoil again and returned to the oven.  It may need

to be checked several times for this.

 

After about 3 - 3 1/2 hours cooking (assuming a pie of the dimension already

stated).  The alfoil can be removed and the temperature be reduced to 150oC.

The last 1/2 -1 hour of cooking is the worst, because it is usually in the last

10-20 minutes of cooking (as the pastry rapidly starts to brown and you start

worrying it is going to burn) that the meat is cooked thru.  How can you tell

when the meat is cooked, the meat juices cease to run with blood!

 

Whilst the pie is cooking, all bones, excess meat, & 'rubbish' meat should be

covered with water in a pan & allowed to cook slowly into a satisfying stock.

After several hours of cooking, the bones can be removed & the stock reduced

considerably.  It is this mixture (perhaps with the addition of port & cranberry

jelly during the initial boiling process) that will be used to make the aspic.

Once the mixture is reduced to about 3 cups full of liquid, several egg whites

should be added to the mix to clarify the stock.  After boiling for several

minutes, the egg whites will cook & rise to the surface (usually in strands).

The whole mix should then be strained thru muslin with the stuff left in the

muslin discarded.  If sufficient bones have been used to boil the stock, the

stock will actually set itself into aspic.  However, I tend to feel that it is

better to be safe than sorry & add several spoons full of gelatin.  If you want

to make sure that you stock will set, you can let it cool & see (aspic can

always be re-melted), or let a few drops fall onto a saucer & put it in the

fridge to see if it hardens!

 

Once the pie has been cooked & cooled enough so it is comfortable to handle,

pour the cooled aspic into the pie thru the hole in the top.  This will need to

be done in stages, as the aspic will soak thru the meat into any airholes.  It

should also soak around down the sides of the pie where the mince will have

contracted from the pastry.  It is worth lifting the pie & rolling it gently

from side to side to let the aspic find all of the gaps. When the pie will not

accept any more aspic, cover it with a tea-towel, let it cool further, then

cover with foil & put it in the fridge overnight.

 

The pie is best served a day after serving since the meat 'matures' in the pie &

tastes much nicer.  We usually serve this with a salad of sliced oranges

(oranges, sprinkled with brown sugar & soaked in brandy for several hours), wild

rice & a crisp green salad.  Cranberry or redcurrant sauce is a nice

accompaniment.  The pastry is very rich and is quite tasty since much of the

meat juices soak into it.  However, most times people can only eat a small

amount of it since it is VERY rich.  Cooking it in a circular pie dish can cause

problems when slicing it, although I tend to prefer this look.  My father tends

to cook his pies in a rectangular pyrex dish, since it is easier to slice.  We

usually cook it in pyrex or ceramic since these do not heat in the same way as

metal & the pastry cooks better without burning.   To get the pie out of the

pan, you set the pan in a sink of hot water for several minutes & this softens

the lard that has leaked out on to the base of the pie dish & the pie will tip

out to be quickly righted on to another plate.

 

I have frozen these, but it does affect adversely the full bodied flavor.  The

pie is incredibly rich & a little slice goes a long way.  I served several of

these at a feast of 70, just using a venison/rabbit combination.  Each table was

served a quarter of the pie (& seconds if wanted).  It was very popular, but it

was a lot of work for a feast setting.  Usually this is a family dish for

festive occasions.

 

I note that the pastry recipe is actually very similar to these given in

Welserin's cookbook.  Further, the combination of the meats are similar to those

suggested in 'grete pies'.  However, the addition of aspic into the pie is

problematical for being period.  Welserin gives recipes for the making of aspic,

but it is not added into the pies.  The addition of the aspic for this recipe is

vital, because of the large airspace left between the pie lid & the meat.  If

you don't add aspic, the meat dries out.  It is not a dish that should be served

hot as it tastes nowhere as nice as when it has aged for a day or so.

 

Yours lengthily (without having time to re-read or edit)

 

Lorix

 

 

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:05:45 EST

From: Peldyn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Game pie recipe=LONG, was why not turkey

 

Your game pie recipe is very interesting. I cook a similiar pie, but add

chopped celery and onions to the minced pork. I have precooked the meat so

there is not all that excess juice and it turns out very well indeed, but

maybe I will try it your way once. It does taste best served cold the second

day. The cookbook I have calls this pie Tourtiere and says it is

traditionally served cold at Christmas time after midnight mass.

 

Peldyn

 

 

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:43:22 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Best food for War

 

>  Barmakiya keeps pretty well, is intended as traveller's food, and is

>  good. It can be made with meat or fish. >>

 

At 9:39 AM -0500 2/24/00, Seton1355 at AOL.COM wrote:

>What is this and may we have the recipe please?

>Phillipa

 

It's two layers of  bread/pastry with a layer of cooked meat, onions,

etc. in between, baked. As we make it, at least, it is much flatter

than a pasty, which is a vaguely similar dish from Frangistan. The

recipe is in the Miscellany, as are recipes for most things I

mention, which is why I usually don't bother giving them. This one is:

 

- ---

Recipe for the Barmakiyya

Andalusian p. A-9 (Good)

 

It is made with hens, pigeons, ring doves, small birds, or lamb. Take

what you have of it, then clean it and cut it and put it in a pot

with salt and onion, pepper, coriander and lavender or cinnamon, some

murri naqi, and oil. Put it over a gentle fire until it is nearly

done and the sauce is dried. Take it out and fry it with mild oil

without overdoing it, and leave it aside. Then take fine flour and

semolina, make a well-made dough with yeast, and if it has some oil

it will be more flavorful. Then stretch this out into a thin loaf and

inside this put the fried and cooked meat of these birds, cover it

with another thin loaf, press the ends together and place it in the

oven, and when the bread is done, take it out. It is very good for

journeying; make it with fish and that can be used for journeying too.

 

Note: The Barmecides were a family of Persian viziers who served some

of the early Abbasid Caliphs, in particular Haroun al-Rashid, and

were famed for their generosity.

 

1/2 c sourdough     3 T olive oil for dough   1 1/2 t (lavender or) cinnamon

3/4 c water  1 lb boned chicken or lamb       1 t salt

1 1/2 c white flour 10 oz chopped onion 1 T murri (see p. 3-4)

1 1/2 c semolina    1/2 t pepper 3 T olive oil

(1 t salt in dough) 1 t coriander       3 T more olive oil for frying

 

Cut the meat fairly fine (approximately 1/4" slices, then cut them

up), combine in a 3 quart pot with chopped onion, 1 t salt, spices,

murri, and 3 T oil. Cook over a medium low to medium heat about an

hour. Cover it at the beginning so it all gets hot, at which point

the onion and meat release their juices; remove the cover and cook

until the liquid is gone, about 30 minutes. Then heat 3 T oil in a

large frying pan on a medium high burner, add the contents of the

pot, fry over medium high heat about five minutes.

 

Stir together flour, semolina, 1 t salt. Gradually stir in 3 T oil.

Combine 3/4 c water, 1/2 c sourdough. Stir this into the flour

mixture and knead to a smooth dough (which should only take a few

minutes). If you do not have sourdough, omit it; since the recipes

does not give the dough much time to rise, the sourdough probably

does not have a large effect on the consistency of the dough.

 

Divide the dough in four equal parts. Take two parts, turn them out

on a floured board, squeeze and stretch each (or use a rolling pin)

until it is at least 12" by 5". Put half the filling on one, put the

other on top, squeeze the edges together to seal. Repeat with the

other two parts of the dough and the rest of the filling. Bake on a

cookie sheet at 3508 for 40 minutes.

 

For the fish version, start with 1 1/4 lb of fish (we used salmon).

If it is boneless, proceed as above, shortening the cooking time to

about 35 minutes; it is not necessary to cut up the fish fine, since

it will crumble easily once it is cooked. If your fish has bones, put

it on top of the oil, onions, spices etc., in the largest pieces that

will fit in the pot, cover the pot, and cook for about 10-15 minutes,

until the fish is almost ready to fall apart; in effect, it is being

steamed by the liquid produced from the onions and by its own liquid.

Take out the fish, bone it, return to the pot, and cook uncovered

about 30 minutes until the liquid is mostly gone. Continue as above.

 

David Friedman

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:21:50 -0600

From: "Rhonda New" <rbnew at ftw.nrcs.usda.gov>

Subject: Re: SC - pie crust advice

 

Greetings from Lady Elizabeth Hawkwood of Elfsea.

 

I have done meat pies for feast (several days ahead - some

were frozen, some were refrigerated) and had no problem

with the bottom crust being soggy. All the pie dough was

made from "scratch."  (Food processor yielded a tougher

dough, mixing by hand was much softer/flakier.)  I never

oil the bottom of the pan, but I sometimes dust it with flour.

 

When I do meat pies at home for dinner, I use a cake pan

with straight sides instead of the slanted side pie pan. This

works great, too, and I've never had a soggy bottom - only

nice slices which can be held in the hand.

 

Perhaps it's the length of time spent baking?  And, if the

meat mixture is not too soupy.

 

/Ly Elizabeth

 

 

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:15:25 -0500

From: grizly at mindspring.com

Subject: Re: SC - Platina meat roll w/questions

 

<<SNIP>>  I think I've found a good candidate in

Platina Book VI, #9:

 

Meat Roll from Tame Animals

 

...take as much lean meat as you want (calf, capon, hen or the like)

and cut it up fine with small knives.  Mix veal fat into this meat well

with spices.  When it has been wrapped in thin crusts, bake in an oven.

When they are almost cooked, put on the roll two egg yolks...beaten

with a paddle with a little verjiuce and very rich juice. Some add a

bit of saffron for looks...

 

I can spice the meat with ginger, cinnamon & pepper, and add a bit of

fat, egg and verjuice to combat the previous dry cooking (and bind it).

But I have a few questions:

 

Would the thin crusts be pie crust? Pastry? Phyllo dough? Do we know?

 

What is "very rich juice" (put on the crust w/eggs and verjuice)?

 

Am I right in thinking of this as a spiral roll that could be sliced

into rounds for serving (vs. meat pie or meat surrounded by crust)?  Am

I wrong?  Is there one true way?>>>>>>>>

 

Thoughts that come to me are these.  1)  the rich juice could be a translational shift that is actually stock or meat juice?  2)  since the text suggests wrapping the meat in "crusts" I would tend to think of several smaller pies, not necessarily hand pies.  3)  the crusts could easily have been a tender crust by that time, but no mention as to exactly what kind of pastry/crust.  4)  there is probably no "one true way" since we are missing some information from the author.  I don't recall off hand if there are other recipes in the text for smaller pies or tart-like things versus large pies, single or double crust.  It is definitely wrapped in crusts, so a free-form tart/pie/pasty of some size would be likely be indicated.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:19:58 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Shepherds Pie

 

WyteRayven at aol.com writes:

<< >....I can give you a great recipe for a

>meat pie, circa 1390 or so, that uses regular pie >crust for top and bottom

>(oh, and it doesn't have any veggies in it.  Just >fruit).

>

>Brangwayna Morgan

Please do! :) >>

 

As easily said as done:  (OOPs, I goofed - it's circa 1450, not circa 1390!)

 

Pies of Parys

>From Harleian MS 4016, c. 1450, as redacted in Pleyn Delit

 

Take and smyte faire buttes of porke and buttes of vele togidre, and put hit

in a faire potte.  And putte thereto faire broth, And a quantitie of Wyne,

And lete all boile togedidre til hit be ynogh; And then take hit fro the

fire, and lete kele a litel, an cast ther-to raw yolkes of eyren, and pouudre

of gyngeuere, sugre, and salt, and mynced dates, reseyns of corence; make

then coffyns of feyre past, and do it ther-ynne, and keuere it & lete bake

y-nogh.

 

 

Pastry for a 9-inch pie pan (top and bottom) or ca 24 tart shells

1 1/2 pounds mixed ground meat, including at least two of pork, veal, beef

1 cup each meat stock or broth, red wine

3 egg yolks or 1 whole egg plus one yolk

1/2 tsp. each ginger, sugar, and salt

1/4 cup each minced dates, currants

optional: pinch of ground pepper or cubebs, and/or mace, ground clove

 

Put the ground raw meat in a saucepan and cover with the wine and water;

bring to a boil and simmer for 10 minutes.  Then drain all the cooking juices

into a heatproof container, setting aside the meat.  Let the cooking liquid

cool (preferably in the refrigerator or freezer) until you can remove all the

fat from the top.

   When you are ready to assemble the pie, line a pie dish with pastry.  Then

bring the defatted juices to a boil; beat the egg yolks (or egg and yolk) in

a bowl and beat in a littleof the hot (but not quite boiling) stock.  Beat in

the rest, still off the heat; then mix together meat, dried fruits, spices,

and sauce and stir over low heat for a few minutes to thicken slightly.  Put

in the prepared pie shell and cover with a top crust (unless you are making

individual tarts).  Bake in a pre-heated 350 degree oven for about 1 hour

(less for individual tarts).  As the mixture may tend to be pretty sloppy at

first, be sure to slit the top crust to allow steam to escape; and it may

also be wise to put a cookie sheet or a piece of foil under the pie pan.

 

 

Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:06:03 EDT

From: Aelfwyn at aol.com

Subject: SC - Recipe for good small Pork or chicken pies

 

Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au> writes:

<<Anyway, I was just looking for recommendations of period recipes using chicken

or pork in pies (along with mixed fruit, cheese or anything else ;-) that you

might have made & where your feasters have scoffed the lot (my definition of

what constitutes popular & good).

  >>

On April 1, we did a feast for Northern Lights. We made a variety of meat

pies using the flour and water dough from Medieval Kitchen (recipe copy

follows) and filled with the suggested mix from A Boke of Gode Cookery

(online!)(recipe copy follows). We made 8x8 inch square pies, but smaller

ones would work as well. And DO use those stamps, that's how we identified

the pie varieties; feasters loved the little cutout critters on the pies.

Enjoy!

Aelfwyn

 

153. Doughs for Pates, Pies and Tarts

A. Flour and Water Dough

1 3/4 cups four (250g)

5 fl. ounces water (~15 cl)

1 Tbsp olive oil

1 scant tsp. salt (I preferred less)

 

    Combine all the ingredients and knead vigorously until a smooth, somewhat

elastic and rather soft dough is formed. If the dough is too moist, you can

knead in a little additional flour. Wrap in a moist towel. and leave to rest

in the refrigerator for at least an hour before using.

    My notes: this is a very stretchy dough (think pizza crust). Be sure to

use a floured board to roll. I found my hands worked much better than a

rolling pin. This dough doesn't rise much in the baking, but does get very

hard. We were able to easily remove the pies from the foil baking tins for

service. It absorbs some of the filling liquid and that makes it rather

yummy. I preferred the taste with about 1/2 the suggested salt. We made all

dough in the Kitchen Aid with no problems. FYI: We also needed a dough to

make peacock necks and heads as part of this feast, this dough worked well

because we could mold the shapes we wanted and they grew very little when

baked.

 

Recipe for Basic Meat Pie

A Boke of Gode Cookery

1998 James L. Matterer

 

1 1/2 lb. meat (beef, pork, rabbit, poultry, venison or any combination)

parboiled and in small chunks

4 egg yolks

1/2 to 1 cup meat broth (final mixture should be rather wet)

splash or red or white wine

1 to 2 cups total of any of the following, separate or in combination (minced

dates, currants, raisins, minced figs, ground nuts, grated cheese)

1/4 tsp. salt

1/4 tsp. pepper

1 Tbsp. total of any of the following spices, separate or in combination

(ginger, allspice, cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, cardamom, cubebs, galingale)

 

    Mix well all ingredients. Place in pie shells, top with pastry lids. Bake

in a 350*F oven 45 minutes to 1 hour or until the pastry is golden brown and

the filling is set. Serve hot or cold. Makes 1 8 or 9" pie.

 

    My notes; do be sure the filling is rather wet, it may overflow a bit,

but will keep the filling from tasting too dry. Very yummy. We made beef,

pork, rabbit, venison and just veggie varieties.

 

 

Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:27:16 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Recipe for good small Pork or chicken pies

 

Try the Koken von Honer recipe from the Miscellany.  I did it for a demo and

the visitors certainly appreciated it!

 

Brangwayna Morgan

 

 

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 01:50:32 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - Recipe for good small Pork or chicken pies

 

At last July's Weapons Proficiency Tourney, the filling was chicken,

onion, celery, and apple.  I forget the spices--M. Alasdair made them.

It was Margaret's suggestion to add the minced apple, for flavor and

moisture, and they were indeed scoffed down.

 

We did the Flaumpeyns for dinner, and I suppose you could use small

amounts to make the tarts.  The great fun of Flaumpeyns is the

flame-pointed crust, but the filling is good.

 

Here are some copy + paste bits from that file:

 

Forme of Cury

 

194.  Chewetes on fyssh day.  Take turbot, haddock, codling and hake, and

cook it.  grind the cooked fish and add ground dates, raisins, pine nuts,

good powders and salt.  Make a small pie shell as above; close the filing

inside and fry it in oil, or stew it in sugar and wine, or bake it, and

serve it forth.

 

193.  Chewetes on flesshe day. Meat Pot Pies.  [Ďchouxí : means

individual small, round pastries.].  Mince pork and chicken, and fry

together, make a small pie shell and put the meat in.  On top, put

hard-boiled egg yolks, ground ginger and salt.  Cover with a top crust

and fry in grease, or bake it until brown, and serve forth.             

      

 

1. Cut circles of strong pie dough to fit large muffin cups.       2. Use

frozen pot pie tins.  3. Use large turnover forms.

3/4 C.  minced pork               3/4 C.  minced chicken

2 hard-boiled egg yolks, crumbled              good pinch ground ginger

shake of salt

Fry meat together, drain.  Place in shell.  Crumble yolks over meat,

sprinkle the ginger and salt on top.  Could cook ginger and salt with

meat.  Place in pastry container.  For first 2, cover with top crust,

crimp edges.  For turnovers, close mold.  Brush with butter or milk, or

lightly beaten egg.  Bake 450* until dough is done, about 20 min.  Or,

deep fat fry.

Note 1: this is going to be dry.  When bitten, the filling will crumble

out.  Try: separate the yolks from the egg white.  Boil the egg yolks in

gently simmering water.  Use the raw egg whites as a binder, mixing in

with the cooked meat and spices.  Then, crumble the egg yolks over, or

mash yolks lightly with any broken egg yolk pieces, and sprinkle over the

top.

Note 2: To prepare ahead for feast or lunch, use turnover form, cook 5

min. in boiling water, remove with slotted spoon, lay on cookie sheets 5

min in freezer, package in freezer bags.

 

Forme of

Cury                                                       Hiett,

et al

For to make flaumpeyns.  Take clene pork and boile it tendre, thenne hewe

it small, and bray it smal in a morter.  Take fyges  and boile hem tendre

in smale ale, & bray hem, & tendre chese therwith; thenne waische hem in

water & thenne bray hem alle togider with ayren. Thenne take powdour of

peper, or els powdour marchaunt, & ayren, and a porcioun of safroun and

salt; thenne take blank sugur, eyren & flour, & make a past with a

rollere.  Thenne make therof smale pelettes & fry hem broun in clene

grece, & set hem asyde.  Thenne make of that oother deel of that past

long coffyns, & do that comade therin, and close hem faire with a

couertour, & pynche hem smale aboute.  Thanne  kyt aboue foure other sex

wayes.  Thanne take euery of that kuttyng vp & thenne colour it with

yolkes of ayren, & plaunt hem thick in to the flaumpeyns aboue ther thou

kuttest hem & set hem in an ovene and lat hem bake eselich, and thanne

serue hem forth.

 

192.  Flampoyntes.  Pointy Flan.  Cook fat pork.  Clean of fat, gristle

and bones; grind or puree it.  Grind cheese and add with sugar and good

powders.  Make a coffin [crust to use as a dish] an inch deep, and put in

the filling.  Make a a thin leaf of good pie crust or filo pastry and cut

out small points, fry them and put them on the stuffing, and bake it.

 

116.  For to make flaumpeyns.  Pointy Flan..  Take clean pork and simmer

until tender, chop it and puree.  Simmer figs until tender in small ale,

rinse in fresh water, cut and puree, and add tender cheese;  and then mix

them all together with eggs.  Take ground pepper or else strong spices,

and hard boiled eggs, and a portion of saffron and salt; then make a

dough of dark brown sugar, eggs and flour, and roll it out.  Make small

pellets [for the flames, these need to be squares or diamonds bent in

half] and fry them brown in clean grease, and set them aside.  From the

rest of the dough, make long coffins and put the pork mixture in, and

cover with a top crust, and pinch the edges together to seal.  Cut 4 to 6

slits in the top crust to let steam escape, color it with egg yolks, turn

up the edges of the steam slits, covering with the beaten egg yolk, plant

thickly with the flame points and set in an oven and let bake slowly and

serve.

 

Glossary note says: MS Bodley CCC F 291 calls for equal amounts of cheese

and pork, 5 lbs. each.

Pureed cooked pork                 figs

ale                                  cottage cheese

eggs                                 hard boiled eggs

saffron                                     salt

cubebs                               grains of Paradise

mace                                 cloves

ginger                               cinnamon

Dough:                               brown sugar

eggs                                 flour

Simmer figs in ale until tender; puree.  Beat raw eggs into cottage

cheese, put through blender with figs and ale, mix thoroughly with pureed

pork and spices. Add grated brick cheese as necessary to make good

consistency. Make dough and form long rectangles of paste, forming over

loaf pans if necessary, also making the flame points. Could remove a

little dough, add sanders to make red, use for flame points, or sprinkle

flame points with sanders.  Fill long coffins with pork paste.  Hide hard

boiled eggs inside, so will show when cut.  Set a dough top crust on

coffins, maybe filo, seal edges, brush with egg yolk, set flame points in

place, holding with egg yolk.  Most of the filling is pre-cooked, so bake

at low heat, slowly, until coffin is done and filling well heated, to

cook egg/cheese mixture..  Make a veggie version by substituting ground

lentils for the pork.

 

Regards,

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 10:45:35 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Recipe for good small Pork or chicken pies

 

Lorix wrote:

> I am in the middle of preparing for a feast & am about to make some small pies

> or pasties for the lunches.  I have a tried & true recipe for beef pies that

> goes down well, but I am also looking at making pork & chicken pies as well. I

> have egg-based quiche type recipes, but I am looking for something more

> meatier.

 

As promised, here is the recipe for Pies of Paris (from Pleyn Delit)

 

Original:

 

Take and smyte fair buttes of porke and buttes of vele togidre, and put hit in a

fair potte, And putte thereto faire broth.  And a quantite of Wyne, And lete all

boile togedidre til hit be ynogh; And then take hit fro the fire and let kele a

litel, and cast there-to raw yolkes of eyren, and pouudre of gynguere, sugre and

aalt, and mynced dates, reseyns of corence; make then coffyns of feyre past, and do it ther-ynne, and keure it & lete bake y-nough.  Harl. 4016

 

The redactiion:

 

Pastry for a 9-inch pie pan or ca 24 tart shells

1 1/2 lbs mixed ground meat, including at least two of pork, veal, beef

1 cup each meat stock or broth, red wine

3 egg yolks or 1 whole egg plus 1 yolk

1/2 tsp. each ginger, salt & sugar

1/4 cup each minced dates, currants

optional:  pinch of ground pepper or cubebs, and/or mace, ground clove

 

Put the ground raw meat in a saucepan and cover with the wine and water; bring to a boil and simmer for 10 minutes.  Then drain all the cooking juices into a heatproof container, setting aside the meat.  Let the cooking liquid cool (preferably in the refrigerator or freezer) until you can remove all of the fat from the top.

 

When you are ready to assemble the pie, line a pie dish with pastry.  Then bring the de-fatted juices to a bil; beat the egg yolks (or egg and yolk) in a bowl, and beat in a little of the hot, but not quite boiling, stock.  Beat in the rest, still off the heat; then mix together meat, dried fruits, spices and sauce, and stir over low heat for a few minutes to thicken slightly.  Put in the prepared pie shell and cover with a top crust (unless you're making individual tarts).  Bake in a pre-heated 350 oven for about one hour (less for individual tarts).  As the mixture may tend to be pretty sloppy at first, be sure to slit the top crust to allow steam to escape, and it also may be wise to put a cookie sheet or foil under the pie pan.

 

We did these both this way and as turnovers for Pennsic, and it worked out very

well.  There is also a sausage pie which my lord has made....I'll see if I can get that recipe as well.

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:16:04 -0400

From: "Nicholas Sasso" <NJSasso at msplaw.com>

Subject: SC - RE: Spelt (recipe)

 

<<< I find mine at the local health food store. Triticum spelta is a harder

wheat than the more common emmer (Triticum dicoccum) and does very well in

leavened breads and some pastries.  The meal is usually a little coarser

than modern flour.

 

I don't recall any Medieval recipes which call specifically for spelt, but

there are some in the Roman corpus.

 

Bear >>>>

 

Not high Medieval, but in Scully's new book, Neapolitan Cuisine, he includes a recipe for a spelt tort which is absolutely divine for dinner as well as a hearty breakfast/brunch.  Lady Caitlin served it towards the end of our megaFeast at last coronation.  I'll have that menu and recipes webbed next week sometime.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

A Spelt Tort

 

Source:

  The Neapolitan Recipe Collection ,by Terence Scully

 

Primary Source:

Spelt Torte (#130): Clean the spelt very well and cook it in fat broth, then drain it; get a pound of new cheese and half a pound of old, grinding or grating bothe; get a veal belly that is well cooked by boiling and almost disintegrating, beat it with a knife, add fine spices, sugar, and saffron with fifteen eggs, and mix everything together; make a pastry crust on the bottom of a pan, pu the mixture in it with enough butter; when half cooked, put lasagne closely together on top, then let it cook a little more; take it out and garnish it with sugar, cinnamon and rosewater.

 

 

Redaction by: Caitlin of Enniskillen (Catherine Hartley)

Serving Size: 10

 

Ingredients:

 

  3 ounces spelt

  10 eggs

  1 pound Farmer's cheese

  1/2 pound Parmesan cheese

  1 cup chicken stock

  2 fluid ounces pork fat

  2 tablespoons powder douce

  2 teaspoons sugar

  5 saffron threads

 

  ~~ Garnish

  1 teaspoon sugar

  1 teaspoon rosewater

  1/4 teaspoon Cinnamon -- ground

  1 pie crust

  2 lasagna noodles

 

Clean the spelt and cook in broth with pork fat. Drain broth. Mix spices, cheese, sugar, saffron and eggs and add to spelt.

 

Place in pastry crust.  Cover with cooked lasagna noodles. Garnish. Bake at 375 for about 30 minutes to 45 minutes until set.

 

Yield: 1 large pie

 

Notes: Used a recipe from a book called "The Splendid Table" by Lynne Rossetto Kasper as a guide.

 

Per serving: 364 Calories (kcal); 20g Total Fat; (51% calories from fat); 19g Protein; 25g Carbohydrate; 210mg Cholesterol; 815mg Sodium

 

Food Exchanges: 1 1/2 Grain(Starch); 2 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 2 1/2 Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:28:16 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - TI Article - Support Kitchen

 

>  (Yer Excellency Gunthar, I don't think that pork pies work well when

>they have to be transported a day and a half to a war. Not when you need

>enough to feed eighty people for four days.

 

Hm. You know, I had a thought, the sausage, cheese, mushroom etc. filled

rolls/pies of bread dough may be period, based on a passage in the

domostroi:

 

Domostroi: "When the servants bake bread, order them to set some of the

dough aside, to be stuffed for pies. When they bake wheat bread, have pies made for the family from the coarse flour left in the sieve. For meat days stuff them with whichever meat is to hand. For fast days use kasha, peas, broth, turnips, mushrooms, cabbage, or whatever God provides...."

 

The fighting household that made teh bread dough wrapped around filling

rolls found that they could be made ahead of time, baked, frozen solid,

and transportported to War (Pennsic) in coolers and they kept quite well.

 

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:43:36 +0200

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Pies

 

>Morgan Cain wrote:

>> I meant in terms of shape, not filling.  Most period pies, at least in the

>> recipes I have seen, have a "coffyn" of some type and do not indicate the

>> turnover-style of pastry used in a pasty.  Of course, I've been a bit

>> focused of late (strawberry pie A&S entry in the works).

>

>It may not say so in the recipes that we have in our current corpus,

>however, there are period illustrations showing folks eating what look

>for all the world like Hostess Fruit Pies. My favorite is on a French

>ivory, late 14th c., and it shows the fellow with the pie in his hand,

>with a bite out of it, and his mouth is obviously full...

>

>'Lainie

 

Here is a recipe for a turnover-style fish pasty. There are other similar

recipes in this collection.

 

Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis

x.  Rapeye.  Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take

Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or

lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence

to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde,

y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as

it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade

lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, &

[th]anne serue it forth.

 

10.  Rapeye.  Take Dough, & make thereof a broad thin cake; then take Figs

& Raisins small ground, & first seethed, And a piece of Haddock or ling

pounded withal; & take powder of Pepper, Galingale, Cloves, & mix together,

& lay thine mixture on the cake in the manner of a bean-cod, rolled with

thine hand; then cast thy cake over thy mixture, as it will embrace it; &

with a saucer rim go round as the mixture lies, & cut them, & so he is cut

& closed withal, & bake or fry it, & then serve it forth. (From Take a

Thousand Eggs or More, vol. 1, p. 72)

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

cindy at thousandeggs.com

Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th

Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing

Recipes"

http://www.thousandeggs.com

 

 

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:59:59 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: SC - Sweet Spinach Tart

 

I'm testing some of the recipes I will be preparing for Protectorate.  I

tried out the Spinach Tart on the unsuspecting populace last night.  The

spinach lovers liked it.  Most of the spinach haters refused it, although a

couple who tried it declared it almost edible.  

 

The crust turned out to be very light and flaky.  I'm wondering whether this

is the period intent or whether they worked the dough more to make a

heavier, crisper crust.

 

You will note that rosewater has been left out of the finished recipes.  The

Baroness and I have decided that for the feast, rosewater is a scribal

error, much as saffron is for Cariadoc.

 

Bear

 

 

Sweet Spinach Tart  

A Spinnage Tart.  Take a good store of Spinage, and boyl it in a Pipkin,

with White Wine, till it be soft as pap; then take it and strain it well into a pewter dish, not leavingany part unstrained; then put to it Rose-water, great store of Sugar and cinamon, and boyle it till itbe thick as Marmalade.  

Then let it coole, and after fill your Coffin and adorn it...

                              Gervase Markham

                              The English Hous-wife, 1615

1 pound spinach (fresh or frozen) cleaned and chopped

1/2 cup white wine

1 cup water

1/3 cup sugar (or more)

1 teaspoon cinnamon

Boil spinach in wine and 1/2 cup water until very soft.

Press through a colander or run through a food processor to mince large

pieces of spinach.

Combine sugar and 1/2 cup water in a pan  and bring to a boil.

Stir in spinach and cinnamon.

Reduce heat to medium and cook until almost dry.

Put spinach into pie shell.  Cool.

After cooling the tart can be adorned with fruit, powdered sugar, crystal

sugar, etc.  One tester suggested sliced hardboiled eggs.

Notes:  One third cup of sugar sweetens the spinach without being cloying.

A cup of sugar would make a thicker syrup and make the spinach closer to the

marmalade of the original recipe.

One teaspoon of fresh cinnamon provides a nice bite without being

overpowering.

Fresh spinach may require additional water or wine in the first boil.  I

used frozen spinach for availability and speed.  I used Malavasia wine, which is fairly strong, and cut it with water for expedience. The spinach absorbed much of the liquid.

 

Elizabethan Pie Shell  

 

Another Way.  Then make your paste with butter, fair water, and the yolkes

of two or three Egs, and so soone as ye have driven your paste, cast on a little sugar, and rosewater, and harden your paste afore in the oven.  Then take it out, and fill it, and set it in againe.

                       The Good Huswifes Handmaid, 1588

 

1/2 cup butter

1 1/2 cup flour (approx.)

2 egg yolks

1/3 cup water

sugar

In a bowl, cut butter into 1 cup of flour, until it crumbs.

Add egg yolks and cut into mixture.  Add additional flour a Tablespoon at a

time until the moisture is absorbed into the crumbs.

Add the water and cut into mixture.  Add additional flour a Tablespoon at a

time, as needed, until the moisture is absorbed into the crumbs.

Push the crumbs into a ball, working the dough gently for a few seconds to

smooth it.

Let the dough rest for 15 to 30 minutes.

Roll out the crusts on a floured surface and transfer to pie pans.  The

recipe makes two 8 or 9 inch pie shells.

Prick the pie shells to let air vent from between the shell and the pan.

Sprinkle sugar on the shell before baking.  I used about a scant 1/4

teaspoon granulated white.

If the shell is to be filled after baking, bake the shell at 325 degrees F

for about 35 minutes or until very light brown.

If the filling needs to be baked in the shell, bake the shell at 325 degrees

F for about 10 minutes, remove, fill and continue baking as per the filling recipe.

Notes:  This recipe makes very light, crisp pie shells. If the dough is

worked minimally, the result is flaky and very similar to modern pie shells.  The more the the more the pie shell resembles a crisp or cracker.  

  

By taste, salt is noticeably missing from the crust, but the sugar modifies

the taste.  A fine ground white sugar or a brown sugar might present interesting differences.

As written, this recipe appears to be for a dessert shell, but it might also

represent an interesting contrast for a savory filling.

 

 

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:51:24 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Sweet Spinach Tart

 

> Bear, did you serve this hot or cold?  Would it make much difference?  Did

> you try it both ways or just one?  I'm just wondering if this may make a

> good pic-nic type of item cold at the Baronial Pavillion at the Tourney

> field.

> Olwen

 

The spinach tart was served at room temperature.  I tasted it both hot and

cold, and I'm of the opinion that it tasted better cold. While Markham may

have meant for the dish to be baked in the coffin, I would judge the recipe

to mean that the spinach was cooked seperately from the coffin (which would

have been prepared during an earlier baking) then the spinach was placed in

the coffin and prepared for presentation.  The dish should hold well on a

sideboard.

 

The pie shell I chose to make for the coffin may not be what was used in

period, we don't know.  But it did suit my needs, and it was from a recipe I

had not previously worked.  Gotta get my fun in somewhere.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:12:36 -0500

From: Jane Boyko <jboyko at magma.ca>

Subject: Re: Pierogies vs pirozhki (was Re: SC - Northkeep's Winterkingdom)

 

Yana is correct that pierogies is the term used by modern folks for

"dumplings".  However the dough is more of a noodle dough (can be quite

stretchy) as opposed to a pastry dough (usually flour, egg, water and

salt). Dumplings is the English translation that my Ukrainain family, and

many Polish friends, applies to them.  

see:  Lemnis, Maria and Henryk Vitry. Old Polish Traditions In the Kitchen

and at the Table. New York:  Hippocrene Books, 1981.

The Ukrainains refer to these as Varenyky.  The Ukrainians also offer a

dish similar to varenyky called Pyrohy which is made with a yeast-raised

dough or shortning like pastry dough.  The varenyky are not used in the

traditional sense of dumplings (cooked on top of soup or stew) but rather,

quite often, as a meal on their own, first boiled to cook the dough and

then served hot with sour cream.  Depending on the filling these are really

yummy served as leftovers fried in butter.

see: Stechishin, Savella. Traditional Ukrainian Cookery. Winnipeg, Canada:

Trident Press Ltd., 1982.  (out of print I believe).

As to the Pirozhok The Art of Russian Cuisine lists three different types

of pies and fillings.

 

Pirog: large rectangular pie made with a yeast dough and compared to Brioche

 

Kurnik:  "one of the oldest pirog recipes.  It is round with a cone-shaped

top, about 5 inches high and contains several layers of filling--chicken,

fresh mushroom, and chopped hard cooked eggs.  Crepes separate the fillings

and asorb the juices"

 

Kulebiaka:  narrow rectangular pie (4 X 12 X 4 inches) (w x l x h) with 2

full crusts and filled with different layers or each corner contains a

diferent filling.

 

These are classified as the large pies.

 

Small pies are called Pirozhki

Pirozhok:  small (2.5 to 5 inch long) oval pie or turnover and stuffed with

a meat filling.

Rasstegai:  similar to Pirozhok but open in middle to reveal filling

Vatrushka:  small round open face pie, usually a soup accompianment.

 

All of these types of pies are baked.

It seems that the Russians used piroghi to refer to all pies of the above

nature as opposed to the the Polish Perogie and the Ukrainain Varenyky.  It

is interesting to note that the Russians also use the term Varenyky to

refer to that special type of dumpling that the mundane world refers to as

perogie. book reference:  Volokh, Anne.  The Art of Russian Cuisine.  USA:

MacMillan, 1983.

 

I have found a refence in "Old Polish Traditions" refering to perogi under

the Lithuanian name of kolduny.  These are described as meat filled perogi

(ravioli to which perogi are very similar).  This reference appears to come

out of the Jagiellon dynasty which started in late 1300's.

 

Thought I would add to the conversation.  Hope it helps, not confound.

 

Marina/Jane

 

>Stefan li Rous wrote:

>>Okay, what is the differance between a pierogie and a piroshki?

>

>In the modern sense, pierogies (Polish origin) are pastry dough stuffed

>with or wrapped around a filling and boiled (sometimes pan-fried

>afterwards). Pirozhkis (Russian origin) are shortcrust (pie) dough or bread

>dough stuffed with or wrapped around a filling and baked, pan-fried, or

>deep-fried (and for the liguistically-minded, the singular is "pirozhok",

>the plural is "pirozhki", and it is spelled with a "zh", not a "sh").

>

>>Did anyone find any definative evidence that these were period? Period

>>recipes would be even better, but I doubt we have that.

>

>I only know about pirozhkis.  Yes, they are period, no, we don't have a

>"recipe."  But, we do know what types of fillings were used in pies, and

>pirozhki means "little pie."  The Domostroi (in the definitely period

>section) lists pie fillings: "For meat days stuff them with whichever meat

>is at hand.  For fast days use kasha, peas, broth [I presume mixed with a

>drier ingredient], turnips, mushrooms, cabbage, or whatever God provides."

>[Pouncy:125].  On page 151 and 161, "turnovers" are mentioned.  In Pouncy's

>footnote of the latter entry, she calls them "pirozhki."  

>

>No mention of the cooking technique, but I would guess they were probably

>baked, like the bigger pies, if only because they would be slightly easier

>to bake for an entire household instead of frying them in batches.

>Although if you set up some sort of assembly-line type of service (fry a

>few, rush them to the diners, fry a few, rush them to the next batch of

>diners, etc.) it might work.  Or maybe keeping them warm in the

>oven...okay, I'm reaching here.  I don't know how they were cooked.  :-)

>

>--Yana

 

 

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:37:16 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meep! - eeding quick beef pastry recipe!

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

paxford at dodo.com.au writes:

<<Anyone hae a quick & easy beef pastry recipe they can send me?

 

I'm 3 days out from a weekend event and need one more pastry dish - beef for

preference; english or french recipe if possible (pre 1600's)>>

 

How about this one:

 

Pies of Parys

From Harleian MS 406, c. 1450, as redacted in Pleyn Delit and slightly

adapted by Brangwayna Morgan

 

Take and smyte faire buttes of porke and buttes of vele togidre, and put hit

in a faire potte.  And putte thereto faire broth, And a quantitie of Wyne, And

lete all boil togedidre til hit be ynogh; And then take hit fro the fire,

and lete kele a litel, an cast ther-to raw yolkes of eyren, and pouudre of

gyngeuere, sugre, and salt, and mynced dates, reseyns of corence; make then coffyns of feyre past, and do it therynne, and keuere it & lete bake y-nogh.

 

Pastry for a 9-inch pie pan (top and bottom) or ca 24 tart shells

1 1/2 pounds mixed ground meat, including at least two of pork, veal, beef

1 cup each meat stock or broth, red wine

3 egg yolks or 1 whole egg plus oe yolk

1/2 tsp. each ginger, sugar, and salt

1/4 cup each minced dates, currants

 

Put the ground raw meat in a saucepan and cover with the wine and

stock/broth; bring to a boil and simmer for 10 minutes.  Then drain all the cooking juices into a heatproof ontainer, setting aside the meat.  Let the  

cooking liquid cool (preferably in the refrigerator or freezer) until you can remove all the fat from the top.  The draining and cooling step can be omited if you like, but I often get quite a skim of fat of the top.

 

    When you are ready to assemble the pie, line a pie dish with pastry. Then

bring the defatted juices to a boil; beat the egg yolks (or egg and yolk) in

a bowl and beat in a little of the hot (but not quite boiling) stock. Beat in

the rest, still off the heat; then mix together meat, dried fruits, spices,

and sauce and stir over low heat for a few minutes to thicken slightly.  

 

  Put in the prepared pie shell and cover with a top crust (unless you are making individual tarts).  Bakein a pre-heated 350 degree oven for about 1

hour (less for individual tarts).  As the mixture may tend to be pretty sloppy at first, be sure to slit the top crust to allow steam to escape; and it may also be wise to put a cookie sheet or a piece of oil under the pie pan.

 

The recipe does say pork and veal, whereas the redaction also suggests beef;

I usually use a mixture of all three, or beef and pork, mostly because ground

veal isn't always easy to find around here.  It makes a good solid pie that

slices well and will hold together in the hand for eating.  I make 3 or 4 inch

tarts of this every year to take to Pennsic for food for the first few days -

they keep well in a cooler.

 

Brangwayna

 

 

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:03:4 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meep! - Needing quick beef pastry recipe!

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:

> How about this one:

>

> Pies of Parys

>> From Harleian MS 4016, c. 1450, as redacted in Pleyn Delit and  

>> slightly adapted by Brangwayna Morgan

>

> Take and smyte faire buttes of porke and buttes of vel togidre, and put hit

> in a faire potte.  And putte thereto faire broth, And a quantitie of Wyne, And

> lete all boile togedidre til hit be ynogh; And then take hit fro the fire,

> and lete kele a litel, an cast ther-to raw yolkes of eyren, ad pouudre of

> gyngeuere, sugre, and salt, and mynced dates, reseyns of corence; make then coffyns

> of feyre past, and do it ther-ynne, and keuere it & lete bake y-nogh.

 

> The recipe does say pork and veal, whereas the redaction also suggests beef;

> I usually use a mixture of all three, or beef and pork, mostly because ground

> veal isn't always easy to find around here.  It makes a good solid pie that

> slices well and will hold together in the hand for eating.  I make 3 or 4 inch

> tarts of this every year to take to Pennsic for food for the first few days -

> they keep well in a cooler.

>

> Brangwayna

 

One of my apprentices did this for a feast about a year or so ago...and

instead of using ground meat, she cooked the whole pork roasts, then

shredded the pork. It was INCREDIBLE!! You could do the same thing with

beef, I believe. It completely changes the texture...and all for the

better. This would also go with the original, where it says "smyte"

which could be "cut into small pieces"...which would fit what they did.

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:47:11 -0400

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meep! - Needing quick beef pastry recipe!

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Jul 27, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Susan Laing wrote:

 

> Anyone have a quick & easy beef pastry recipe they can send me?

>

> I'm 3 days out from a wekend event and need one more pastry dish - beef for

> preference; english or french recipe if possible (pre 1600's)

 

There's also this one:

 

To Make Pyes.   [ http://www.medievalcookery.com/recipes/pyes.html ]

 

Filling:

        1 lb. ground mutton or beef

        14 cup prunes, chopped

        1/4 cup dates, chopped

        1/4 cup raisins

        2 Tbsp. vinegar

        1/2 tsp. pepper

        1/2 tsp. salt

        pinch saffron, ground

 

Crust:

        1 1/4 cup flour

        1 egg yolk, beaten

        6 Tbsp. butter, softened

        water

 

Mix the filling ingredients and set aside Cut the butter into the

flour thoroughly. Mix in egg yolk and enough water to let the dough

hold together. Separate into eight portions and roll out. Place one

eighth of the filling into each, fold over, and seal with water. Bake

at 350 degrees F until cust is golden - about 30 minutes.

 

Source [A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye, Anne Ahmed (ed.)]: To make

Pyes. Pyes of mutton or beif must be fyne mynced and ceasoned wyth

pepper and salte, and a lyttle saffron to coloure it, suet or marrow a

good quantite,  lyttle vyneger, prumes, greate raysins, and dates,

take the fattest of the broathe of powdred beyfe, and yf you wyll haue

paest royall, take butter and yolkes of egges, and to tempre the flowre

to make the paeste.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

   http://www.medievalcookery.com/

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Mediaeval Meat Pies

From: Robert Uhl <ruhl at 4dv.net>

Date: 11 Oct 2004 01:10:27 -0600

 

Some months ago I was referred to <http://tinyurl.com/4jsey>; by

<http://tinyurl.com/3nmzx>;.  The former is a very interesting work which

treats mediaeval meat pies as a kind of primitive tin can--a means of

preserving otherwise-perishable foodstuffs for a fair amount of time.

The basic idea is that the filling is cooked twice: once to soften the

meat, and a second time with spices & fruits (e.g. dates, currants and

raisins--which have the effect of soaking up liquid), then poured into

pastry shells and completely sealed, then baked.  There's nothing living

in the filling, due to its twice-boiled character, and there's nothing

living in the pastry, due to it being baked, thus the only way for rot

to set in is through the pastry itself--and this is easily avoided by

doping it with salt (I imagine that the use of a large amount of lard or

bacon grease helps as well).

 

Inspired, I've made a couple of batches following the general recipe.

The pastry followed this recipe:

 

Pastry for Meat Pies

====================

 

4 cups flour

7 oz. bacon dripping or lard

1/3 cup water

2 Tbsp. salt

2 eggs

 

Mix flour & salt; heat water & fat until fat is melted, then add to

flour.  Stir in eggs until one has a thick dough.  Roll flat and form

pie shells and solid lids (pies must be airtight).  Bake at 355° for

twenty minutes and remove from tins (if used).

 

Meat Pie Filling

================

 

The basic idea is to take about two pounds of meat (the first time I

used steak and a Cornish hen; the second time I used pork, a chicken

breast and a Cornish hen), boil it in broth (I used chicken and lamb

broth) until soft, hack it to pieces and bray it in a mortar, then boil

a second time with spices and fruit.

 

2 lbs. meat

3 oz. currants

3 oz. raisins

8 oz. dates

2 eggs

1 qt. broth

1 1/4 cup red wine (I used a cheap sweet wine)

1 Tbsp. ginger

2 tsp. hyssop

3 cloves

6 cardamom seeds (open the pods & use the black bits)

1 inch cinnamon fragment (1/2 in. or less stick)

1 1/8 tsp. salt

2 1/2 tsp. sugar (or a good-sized dollop of honey)

 

Boil the meat in the broth until soft (about a dozen minutes) and while

it is boiling grind the spices in a mortar, then

drain (reserving the liquid) and smite to pieces, then bray the pieces

in a mortar (be sure to do this well), then boil again with about a cup

of the broth (it should start out fairly soupy) with the spices & fruit

until thickened (about another dozen minutes).

 

Making the Pies

===============

 

Make up a flour & water paste; this will be used to seal the pies. Fill

the baked pie shells to almost overflowing with the filling, then moisten the

uncooked lids with paste and seal the pies, filling every last gap or

hole with paste.  Bake at 355° until golden brown.

 

 

My first pies were made using two-inch deep pie tins as forms for the

shells.  The shells shrank quite a bit in the cooking, and ended up

being tart-sized with less than an inch of filling-space.  The

steak-chicken mixture was dry (no wonder beef was considered a dry

food!), but quite tasty.  I should note that I forgot to add the egg and

dates to the filling with this batch.  Lastly, there was not quite

enough pastry to make lids for every shell (I wrapped the lidless one in

foil and ate it that evening).  The eight pies themselves were durable and

lasted for several weeks (they never spoilt, but I ended up eating them

all).

 

The second mixture was much moister.  I didn't bray it as well, and so

it came out stringier than the previous had (the first was much like a

firm meat paste).  I remembered the egg and currants in this one.

Instead of small pies, I used standard-sized pie tins, which did not

work satisfactorily at all: I still was one lid short for the three

pies, and they were so large and so thin that they broke easily. Also,

the pastry this time didn't quite 'take': it was quite crumbly to work

with.

 

The next time I make them I'd like to use deeper pie shells (maybe three

or four inches deep, and about as wide).  I may use a bit more beef and

a bit less chicken.  Chicken is much more difficult to bray fine than

beef and pork are: it's so greasy that it slips around in the mortar.

Next time I'll use only currants instead of currants and raisins:

raisins are so large that they are noisome.  I may add basil and thyme

to the herbs of the filling.

 

--

Robert Uhl <ruhl at 4dv.net>

 

 

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:39:55 -0500

From: Patrick Levesque <pleves1 at po-box.mcgill.ca>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Veal Pie, Garlicsauce

To: "Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>"

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

#1: I tried this evening the veal pie from Terence Scully's edition of he

Neapolitan cookery collection (# 71 of the collection).

It's actually a veal and fowl pie. This being just a test I used only

chicken (370 g) and veal (470 g). So almost 2 pounds of meat. According to

the recipes, the meat must first be boiled, then onions and raisins and

spices are added, followed by beaten eggs and verjuice. He mixture is next

baked.

 

As Scully points out, it is not sure whether this is boiled and baked in the

same recipient, or if it is transferred in a pastry shell for the second

step. I chose the second option. Here's the redaction.

 

I cut the meats in dice-sized cubes, cooked in briefly in melted butter and

oil (instead of veal fat, which I don't have), then added a glass of water,

put a lid on the pan and let everything boil fr a few minutes. Added one

chopped onion and about a quarter of a cup of raisins, along with salt,

pepper, cinnamon and cloves. I let it boil while I beat 2 eggs, which I

added to the mixture, also adding about a third of a cup of verjuice. I then

dumped everything in a (store-bought) 9-inch pastry shell, covered with

another shell, threw in the oven (pre-heated to 350) for 45 minutes.

 

Final results was declared yummy by my two usual guinea pigs :-) I

purposefully left out the cured ham from the recipe although I can see how

it would add to the taste).

 

As I'm planning tables of 8 for this feast I'll probably keep the pastry

shells; for a large family reunion I'd need to find a larger recipient and

try it the period way. For the feast I'll try and addquail as well, or

whatever fowl I can get at a decent price in March.

 

#2: I also prepared a batch of Platina's strongly colored garlic sauce

(crushed almonds [or walnuts], garlic, breadcrumbs, must or cherry juice).

<snip - See sauces-msg - Stefan>

 

Petru

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:22:30 -0400

From: Ariane Helou <Ariane_Helou at brown.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Introductions.. And Meat Pies

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

>     My initial interest is in a portable meat-pie that can quite easily

> be served cold or hot, and perhaps stored half-finished to be prepared  

> at an event.  I have come across a few recipes, but I was hoping that

> perhaps the good gentles of the cooks list might have a recipe with  

> some period connections?

 

I have a recipe that I'm going to try out for an event in a couple of

weeks.  (I'm planning to make the pies ahead of time and take them to the

event fully cooked and ready to eat.  They're part of a more expansive

feast menu, but are sure to be excellent on their own or as the main  

focus of a meal.)

 

  From an anonymous Tuscan cookbook, ca. 1400 (my translation):

 

"You can make a pie from beef, mutton and pork, sliced very small with

garlic, onion, scallions, clean green [meaning unripe] grapes, or with

herbs, in whatever way you like."

 

The crust at this point would have been (i'm fairly certain, but feel free

to correct me, anyone) just water and flour, maybe some salt? but no fats

or eggs.  Pie crusts made with butter or lard start to show up in the late

15th or early 16th century, I think.

 

I'm going to use either beef or lamb, depending on price and availability,

but no pork, since several of the diners don't eat it. I'd love to use

green grapes, but I doubt I'll find any in time; so my pies will just have

the garlic, onions, scallions and herbs (thyme, marjoram, oregano, parsley,

and rosemary are all called for in this recipe collection -- so I'll just

use whatever's handy).

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:58:07 +0000

From: nickiandme at att.net (Debra Hense/Kateryn de Develyn)

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Favorite insides for hand held pies

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org (Group-SCACooks)

 

I've adapted the following medieval recipe to hand-held pie/empanada  

successfully:

 

Pork Pie

Platina. On Right Pleasure and Good Health

 

1 & 1/2 lbs pork tenderloin – chopped into bite-sized (1/4 inch  

cubed) pieces

upper and lower pie crust for 9 inch pie shell (or rolled out dough  

for empanada/hand-held pies)

1/ 2 stick butter

1 teaspoon salt

1 /4 teaspoon ground sage

1 /4 teaspoon ground nutmeg

1 /4 teaspoon ground thyme

1 /4  teaspoon fround mace

2 egg yolks

 

NOTE: Adjust spices to taste for best results.

 

Take 1 /2 of the pork and mix with 1 /2 teaspoon of salt, one egg  

yolk and the green herbs.  Spread over bottom of pie. Take the  

remaining pork and mix in the remaining salt, egg yolk and the red  

spices.  Add to pie.  Dice the butter and place over top. Add top  

crust.  Cut venting slits.  Bake at 375F for 20 minutes. Then at  

350F for 20 minutes.  Cut back on the amount of time to bake if  

making a hand-held pie (30 minutes) or small empanada (20-25 minutes).

 

Good hot or cold.

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:04:06 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pie in a Pipkin

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

To make a Pie in a possenet or pipkin

 

     To make a Pie in a pipkin, First take the flesh and good

Beefe suet, and mince it smal, and put it in a pipkin, and if you

wil, you may put therein Capon, Henne, or Pigeon, then set

it on the coales, and when it is beginneth to boile, skim it. Then

take a few small Reasons and an Onion, and mince them

small, and fry them with good suet, and put them suet and all

into the pipkin, and when it is ready, put spice and vergiuice

into it. And if thou thinke good put therein likewise yolkes

of two or three egges beaten, which done, you may dish it

and send it to the table.

 

Epulario, Or, The Italian Banquet. 1598

I make this recipe 10. No Page Numbers are given.

I did this from a xerox of the original book.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Johnnae

 

>  On Feb 21, 2007, at 1:35 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

>>  The recipe is period.  It is from Epulario, which was a 16th

>>  century English translation of Platina/Martino. snipped

>>  Anyone have "Epulario" handy, and can you post the original recipe?

>

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:

>  No Epulario handy, but here's what may be the same recipe from the

>  Millham translation of Platina, Book VI:skipping the original

>  12. Meat Roll in a Pot

>  Make meat roll in a pot this way: put finely?cut veal in a pot with

>  fat; add chicks and young chickens if you wish. Put the pot on coals

>  far from flame so it does not boil quickly. When it begins to boil,

>  skim, then put in raisins. Finally, fry finely?chopped onions in

>  lard, and when fried, put in the pot. When you think everything is

>  almost entirely cooked, pour in verjuice and spices. Some put in two

>  yolks of eggs, well?beaten, with the verjuice. It is very nourishing

>  and is digested slowly, will create nausea, harm the stomach, warm

>  the liver and kidneys, increase semen, and damage the head and eyes.

>

>  Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:24:18 -0800 (PST)

From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pie in a Pipkin

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

>  Anyone have "Epulario" handy, and can you post the original recipe?

 

Yup:

To make a Pie in a possenet or pipkin

To make a pie in a pipkin.  First take the flesh and good Beef Suet,  

and mince smal, and put it in a pipkin, and if you will you may put  

therein Capon, Henne, or Pigeon, then set it on the coales, and when  

it beginneth to boile, skim it.  Then take a few small reasons and an  

Onion, and mince them small and fry them with good suet, and put them  

suet and all into the pipkin, and when it is ready, put spice and  

vergiuice into it.  And if thou thinke good but therein likewise  

yolkes of two or three egges beaten, which done, you may dish it and  

tend to the table.

 

For comparison the same recipe from Martino (transcribed from the Art  

of Cooking, the first modern cookery book).

How to prepare a pie in a pot

First, take the meat and some good veal fat and chop and place in the  

pot.  If you wish, you can add some pullet or squab with the meat.  

Then put the pot on some hot coals away from the flame. When it  

begins to boil, make sure that it is well scummed; then add a small  

amount of raisins and take a bit of finely chopped onion fried with  

some good lard and add to the pot together with the lard. When it  

seems done cooking, add some good spices and some verjuice, if you  

wish you can add one or two beaten egg yolks. As soon as the pie is  

done serve.

 

Now remember:

Martino wrote his recipes in Italian, with lots of details to the cook.

Platina translated it into Latin added some commentary and called it  

"on right pleasure and good health"

It was then translated from Latin back into Italian and called Epulario

Then it was translated into English.

Generally speaking the recipes make more sense in Martino than they  

do in the Epulario.  More complex recipes look even worse.

 

Helewyse

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:49:56 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish Pies

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

From Rumpolt Ein New Kochbuch

 

This is still a little rough.  There are two

doughs, the puff paste and another, I'm not

entirely sure which is enclosed in the other. Or

if the puff paste is just the cover.  Any way the

use of bacon fat is unusual, I think.  There are

also several other one line references to Spanish

pies and Spanish fritters (krapfen).  I'd agree

that it is talking about empanadas.  Or something

like empanadas.

 

Ranvaig

 

Vom Kalb

48. Spanische Pasteten zu machen vom Kalbfleisch.

Nimm Mehl/ und laulicht Wasser/ mach

einen Teig darau?/ und arbeit jn wohl ein Stundt

oder zwo/ da? er sich vom Tisch hinweg

nimpt/ so wirt er zeh werden/ Und wenn er wohl

gearbeitet ist/ so treib jn au? mit einem

Walger/ da? er d?nn wirt wie ein Papier/ und wenn

du jn hast au?gewalgert/ so nimm frisch

Schweinenschmaltz/ streich den Teig mit einem

Pensel umb und umb/ und wenn du den Teig

mit dem Fei?t hast bestrichen/ so walg so viel

Teigs ubereinander/ da? vier Finger dick wirt/

so kanstu darnach davon schneiden/ wie viel du

vermeinest Pasteten zu machen/ es sei drei

oder vier/ Netz die Finger in Baum?l/ und treibs

drei Finger hoch auf/ mach darnach wieder

ein andern Teig mit Eierdottern/ und ein wenig

Butter. Treib widerumb ein Pasteten auf/ so

hoch/ als du die vorige hast aufgetrieben/ und

setz sie in die Spanische Pasteten/ die du

vorhin hast aufgetrieben/ denn der Teig/ den du

vorhin hast aufgetrieben/ wirt dir nicht

bleiben/ er wirt nider fallen/ drumb ist der

ander Teig zu h?lff/ den du darein thust/ und

nimm darein ein F?ll/ wie vorhin vermeldt ist in

die kleine Pasteten zu machen/ Und wenn du

sie gef?llt hast/ so nimm von dem Teig/ den du

hast ubereinander gewalgert/ mach Deckel

darauf/ und treib jn mit den H?nden au?/ da? du

die Finger mit Baum?l bestreichest/ und

breit sie au?/ so weit die Pasteten sein/ deck es

fein darmit zu/ nimm darnach schwartz

Papier/ und schmiers mit Baum?l/ setz die

Pasteten darauf/ und scheubs darmit in Ofen/ und

schaw/ da? du es nicht verbrennest/ da? du es mit

flei? backest/ so wirt es artlich auflaufen

vom Schweinenschmaltz/ schaw/ und verback es

nicht/ denn das Fleisch/ das du darein hast

gethan/ ist vorhin gesotten/ und wenn du es wilt

anrichten/ so heb den Deckel mit einem

Messer auf/ und gie? ein wenig Rindtfleischbr?he darein/

und darffst den Deckel nit aufschneiden/ denn der

Teig wirt selber auflaufen/ so werden sie

sch?n und gut/ und man nennet es Spanische

Pasteten/ magst in ein Sch?ssel anrichten drei

oder vier/ so ist es zierlich. Wiltu aber ein

grosse machen/ so mustu desto mehr Teig

anmachen/ dz du es uber einander walgerst/ Aber

die kleinen seindt zierlicher als die grossen/

sonderlich wenn man einen verehren wil/ so

schickt mans hinweg/ ist bequemer/ als wenn

man eine voneinander schneidt/ Denn sollche

Pasteten seind nicht schlecht zu machen/ ist

grosse m?h und wenig Zeug/ seind zierlich und gut zu essen.

 

48. Spanish pies to make from calf meat.  Take

flour/ and laulicht water/ make a dough from it/

and work it well an hour or two/ that it takes

itself way from the table/ like it will become

zeh/ And when it is well worked/ then drive it

out with a roller/ that it becomes thin as a

paper/ and when you have rolled it out/ then take

fresh pig lard/ coat the dough with a brush

around and around/ and when you have painted the

dough with the fat/ then roll so much dough over

each other/ that it becomes four fingers thick so

you can then cut from it/ as many you have in

mind pies to make/ be it three or four/ netz the

fingers in olive oil/ and drive out  three

fingers high/ make from it again another dough

with egg yolk/ and a little butter.  Then again

drive a pie out/ as high/ as you have driven the

previous/ as set it in the spanish pie/ that you

just now has driven out/ because the dough/  that

you just now driven out will itself not keep/ it

will fall nider/ therefore is the other dough to

help/ which you do into it/ and take there in  a

filling/ as previously mentioned/ close in the

small pies and when you have filled them/ then

take from the dough/ which you have over each

other rolled/ make covers from it/ and drive them

out with the hands/ with the fingers spread with

olive oil/ and widen them out/ as wide as the

pies are/ and cover them with it/ then take black

paper/ and grease it with olive oil/ set the pies

on it/ and push with it in the oven/ and look/

that you do not burn it/ that you bake it with

diligence/ like this it will be artlich raised

from the pig lard/ look/ and do not over bake it/

since the meat/ that you have added to it/ is

already cooked/ and when you will serve it/ then

raise the cover with a knife/ and pour a little

beef broth in it/ and if you do not want to cut

the cover/ then the dough will rise itself/ like

this it becomes beautiful and good/ and one calls

it Spanish pie/ likes to serve three or four in a

dish / like this it is delicate. If you will

however make one large/ then you must mix so much

more dough that you roll it over each other/ but

the small are more delicate than the large/

especially when one wants admiration/ like this

one sends away/ is convenient/ as when one cuts

one from another/  For such pies are not bad to

make/ is much effort and little stuff/ is lovely

and good to eat.

 

Vom Lachs

15. Nimm ein stuck Salm / der gekocht ist / hack

jhn klein mit gr?nen wolschmeckenden

Kr?utern / und wenn du es klein gehackt hast / so

schlag Eier darunter / und versaltz

es nicht. Nimm ein Pfannen / und Butter darein / mach sie hei? / und  

mach ein

einger?rtes darau? / so wirt es gut und wohl

geschmack. Man kan solches einger?rtes

machen von dem Salm / und kleine schwartze Rosein darunter / und ein  

Turten

darau? gemacht / oder Spanische Krapffen / und

mit biel Blettern / oder ein Gehack

gemacht / mit kleinen schwartzen Rosein / und mit

Gew?rz angemacht / mit Zimmt /

Safran / und ein wenig Essig darein gegossen /

und f?? gemacht mit Zucker / la? es

fein trucken einsieden / thu ein wenig frische

Butter darein / sampt der Erbstbr?h /

und la? damit fein trucken einsieden / nimm

Eierdotter / die hart gesotten sein / so

kanstu es also aurichten auf ein Sch?ssel. Oder

kanst ein solches Gehack ein machen

in Spanische Pasteten / die fein rundt aufgeseztt sein.

 

15. Take a stuck salmon/ that is cooked/ chop it

small with green well tasting herbs/ and when you

have chopped it/ then beat eggs in it/ and do not

over salt it.  Take a pan/ and butter in it/ and

make it hot/ and make a einger?rtes from it/ like

this it is good and well tasting.  One can make

such a  einger?rtes make from the salmon/ and

little  black raisins in it/ and make a tart/ or

Spanish fritters/ and with many leaves/ or make a

hash/ with small black raisins/ and mixed with

spices/ with cinnamon/ saffron/ and a little

vinegar poured in/ and make sweet (s??) with

sugar/ let it cook until dry/ take egg yolks,

that have been cooked hard/ like this you can

serve a dish.  Or can make such a hash into

Spanish pies/ that are set out nicely round.

 

Von allerlei Pasteten / so vom Fleischwerck und Gev?gel

46. Mach ein Teig mit Wasser an / da? du jn fein

kanst au?treiben / schmier jn mit

geschm?lztem frischem Speck / wickel den Teig

ubereinander / und mach viel / da? so

dick ubereinander wirt als ein Arm. Und wenn er

dick ist / so schneidt st?ckwei? darvon /

es sei zu kleinen oder zu grossen Pasteten. Wenn

du es wilt au?treiben / so nez die H?nd

in zerlassenem Speck / der nicht hei? ist / da?

der Teig nicht bleibt an H?nden kleben.

Treib wider ein Pasteten auf von (vom oder und)

weissem Teig / fez die andere darein /

die du hast von Speck aufgetrieben. Denn dieser

Teig helt den Spanischen / da? er nicht

nider fellt. Und du kanst sie mit gehacktem

Fleisch au?f?llen. Schneidt darnach wider

von dem Spanischen Teig / da? du kanst ein Deck

machen / schmier Papier mit Baum?l /

fez die Pasteten darauf / scheubs in Ofen / und

la? backen / schwa da? du es nicht

verbrennest / denn es verbrennt sich bald / weil

viel Fei?t zwischen dem Teig ist / thu die

Deck auf / und geu? ein gute Hennenbr?he darein /

da? das gehackt Fleisch nicht herb

wirt / so wirt es gut und wohl geschmack. Also

macht man die kleine Pasteten. Du kanst

auch ein sollchen Teig zu Fischen brauchen.

 

46. Make a dough with water/ that you can drive

it nicely out/ spread it with melted fresh bacon/

roll the dough over each other/ and make many/

that are as thick around as an arm.  And when it

is thick/ then cut pieces from it/ be it for

small or large pies.  When you will drive them

out/ then nez the hands in melted bacon/ that is

not hot/ that the dough does not stay stuck on

the hands.  Drive again a pie from a white dough/

set the other in it/ that you have from bacon

driven out. Then this dough keeps the Spanish/

that it does not fall low. And you can fill it

with chopped meat.  Then slice against

(crosswise?) the Spanish dough/ that you can make

a cover/  spread paper with olive oil/ set the

pie on it/ push in the oven/ and let bake/ look

that it does not burn/ because it burns itself

soon/ because much fat is between the dough/ take

the cover off/ and pour a good chicken broth in

it/ so the chopped meat does not become dry/

like this it is good and well tasting.  Also one

make the little pies.  You can also need such a

dough for fish.

 

(Translation note: I read "fez" as "sez" or

"setz", "f??" as "s??",  and read "schwa" as

"schaw", "nez" also appears as "netz"  but the

translation baffles me).

 

 

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:26:08 +0100

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish Pies

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Am Mittwoch, 21. M?rz 2007 05:49 schrieb ranvaig at columbus.rr.com:

 

> (Translation note: I read "fez" as "sez" or

> "setz", "f??" as "s??", and read "schwa" as

> "schaw", "nez" also appears as "netz"  but the

> translation baffles me).

 

I think that is the modern German 'benetzen', to moisten or make wet.

 

Giano

 

 

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:54:02 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Veal and sausage pies RE: OT & OOP: Sweeney

        Todd movie

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:57 AM, otsisto wrote:

> How far back do veal and sausage pies go?

> De

 

The FoC has this one for veal tarts:

TARTLETES. XX.VIII. IX. Take Veel ysode and grinde it smale. take harde

Eyrenn isode and yground & do ?erto with prunes hoole. dates. icorue.

pynes and Raisouns coraunce. hool spices & powdour. sugur. salt, and

make a litell coffyn and do ?is fars ?erinne. & bake it & serue it  

forth.

 

This one is two centuries later and is from the GHJewell (1596? edition)

To make a veale pie. Let your Veale boyle a good while, and when it is

boyled, mince it by it selfe, and the white by it selfe, and season it

with salt and pepper, cinamon and ginger, and suger, and cloves and

mace, and you muste have prunes and raisons, dates & currantes on the  

top.

 

/ *Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin *has this one:/

60 To make a veal pie. Take pieces of veal from the leg and boil them in

water, about as long as it takes to hard boil an egg. Afterwards take

them out and chop the meat small, and take suet from the kidneys and cut

it small and chop it with the veal. And when it is finely chopped, then

put it in a bowl and put some wine into it and an ample ladelful of

broth , pepper and a little mace, which should be whole. Crush it a

little by hand so that it in small pieces, put in it raisins and saffron

and stir it all up together with a spoon, put cinnamon in it also, and

taste it, however it seems good to you.

 

Veal and sausage, however, is uncommon. Searching by Google I can turn

it up here--

 

         1233.--VEAL AND SAUSAGE PIE.

 

Cover a shallow dish with paste, lay a well-beaten veal cutlet at the

bottom, slightly seasoned; cover it with a Bologna sausage freed from

the skin and cut into slices; then add another cutlet and a layer of the

Bologna sausage; cover the whole with paste, and put no water to it: the

veal will give out sufficient gravy, while it will be rendered very

savory by the sausage. It is excellent eaten cold.

 

That recipe was in The Practical Housekeeper which was published in  

1857.

 

Johnnae

 

<the end>



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