shoes-msg - 11/8/01
Medieval footwear and SCA imitations.
NOTE: See also the files: boots-msg, shoes-lnks, p-shoes-msg, shoemaking-msg, leather-msg lea-tanning-msg, leather-dyeing-msg, 2Shod-a-Shire-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: duncan at rti.rti.org (Stephen Duncan)
Date: 5 Aug 91 14:10:19 GMT
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
I just saw a blurb from a British bookseller's catalog (HMSO) about
"Shoes and Pattens" by Francis Grewe and Margrethe de Neergaard.
Paraphrasing the blurb, a definitive account of a find of over a
thousand well-dated shoes from the 12th to the 15th centuries,
profusely illustrated with 166 photographs and line drawings.
The publisher is the Museum of London, ISBN 0 11 290443 2.
Paperback, 11.95 pounds sterling.
Steve Duncan
duncan at rti.rti.org
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Date: 21 Aug 91 15:18:31 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago
Someone mentioned seeing a blurb for "Shoes and Pattens" by Grewe and
de Neergaard; we have the book and it is excellent.
Cariadoc
From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shoes
Date: 16 Jul 1993 19:09:55 GMT
Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network
Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.
Parlan asks where to get SHOES AND PATTENS.
From Her Majesties Stationery Office, in London.
01-44-71-873-9090
They take VISA and MasterCard, and I think that ordering number is now
a 24 hour line.
--
Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Atlantia
Dennis R. Sherman Triangle Research Libraries Network
dennis_sherman at unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
From: Dennis R. Sherman (7/22/93)
To: markh at terminator
RE>Shoes
>01-44-71-873-9090
>
>They take VISA and MasterCard, and I think that ordering number is now
>a 24 hour line.
>*******
>
>Is this the phone no. or the order number? Do you know what the price is?
Phone number -- international numbers look funny...
When I bought it, several years ago now, it was just over $20.
There's no telling what inflation and the exchange rate have done in
the meantime, but I'd be surprised if the price has more than doubled.
It actually doesn't matter -- if you're interested in doing historical
shoes, you need this book, no matter what it costs.
--
Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Atlantia
Dennis R. Sherman Triangle Research Libraries Network
dennis_sherman at unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Foot/Combat Wear
Date: 1 Nov 1993 20:03:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
In article <2b3nooINNmmn at lynx.unm.edu>, mutant <fraggle at hydra.unm.edu> wrote:
>Greetings to all!
>
>I try to be as period as possible in all things.... This has led to a
footwear problem. I am extremely flat-footed, and anything short of full
engineering or combat boots doesn't prevent me from pain or sprained ankles,
especially in armor.
>
>Byzantine would be preferable, but anything would work.
Is it any comfort to tell you that you problem is 100% period?
Shoes in period were just not very good for the foot. Gale Owen-Crocker,
in her excellent book on Anglo-Saxon clothing, mentions a study of old
English burials that showed many more skeletons with evidence of broken
ankles than you would find in a comparable modern group.
I suggest that you adopt the practice of Margaret of Shaftesbury's
Master Petrog, who pursued authenticity up to the point beyond which
lay illness and serious injury. I would take that pair of well-engineered
engineer boots and make a sort of leather spat that would fit over the
boot, secured by a strap under the instep, and make it LOOK like an
early period shoe.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)
Subject: Re: Period Foot/Combat Wear
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 14:38:48 GMT
In article <2b3q29$fd at agate.berkeley.edu> djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <2b3nooINNmmn at lynx.unm.edu>, mutant <fraggle at hydra.unm.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I try to be as period as possible in all things.... This has led to a
>footwear problem.
>Is it any comfort to tell you that you problem is 100% period?
>
>Shoes in period were just not very good for the foot.
>lay illness and serious injury. I would take that pair of well-engineered
>engineer boots and make a sort of leather spat that would fit over the
>boot, secured by a strap under the instep, and make it LOOK like an
>early period shoe.
A Count in Trimaris, who is period to the point of period underwear (I thought
that was a joke, until I saw him in his underwear!) fights in tennis shoes
covered in knee high leather boots. He uses some sort of strap or elastic to
make the "spat". You cannot tell unless you are very close and looking. My
assumption is this is done for foot support and/or traction. As a nurse and
chiururgeon, I fully agree with the period unless it causes illness or injury
idea, then thoroughly disguise the nonperiod item.
Brigit
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pam Kreyling |
kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Sarasota, Fl., USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:09:03 EST
From: Therion <HZS at psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Foot/Combat Wear
Gawaine quests:
>could you or some other Gentle please direct me to where I can find
>"Shoes and Pattens"?
Try a library.
>>> isbn 0112904432
Museum of London.
Shoes and pattens / Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergaard ;
illustrations by Susan Mitford. London : H.M.S.O., 1988.
vi, 145 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.
Series: Museum of London. Medieval finds from excavations in London ; 2.
At head of title: Museum of London.
Summaries in French and German.
Bibliography: p. 140-142.
1. Shoes England London History. 2. Sabots England London History. 3.
Costume England London History. 4. London (England) Social life and customs
To 1500. 5. London (England) Antiquities.
Therion
From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Foot/Combat Wear
Date: 12 Nov 1993 14:47:03 GMT
Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network"
Greetings to the rialto from Robyyan.
Gawaine Kilgore/Gregory Stapleton asks:
>could you or some other Gentle please direct me to where I can find
>"Shoes and Pattens"?
Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergaard. _Shoes and Pattens_ (Medieval
Finds from Excavations in London v.2)_; London: Her Majesty's
Stationery Office, 1988. ISBN 0 11 290443 2
I know it is available at HMSO in London, and they take VISA and
Mastercard: phone 01-44-71-873-9090 which I think is a 24 hour order
line. I've heard it is available somewhere in the USA too, but
haven't paid attention to where.
--
Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Atlantia
Dennis R. Sherman Triangle Research Libraries Network
dennis_sherman at unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
From: dpeek at cix.COMpulink.co.UK (David Peek)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Shoes and Pattens
Date: 3 Sep 1994 20:19:20 -0400
A few days ago I seem to remember that someone was being told that this book
is not availble.... In fact it has been reprinted this year.
Shoes and Pattens.
ISBN 0-11-290443-2 UK price 13.95 pounds
Printed by HMSO
Contact HMSO on: General Enquires = 071 873 9090 (sorry can't remember how
to render this in international form)
or by mail
HMSO Publications Centre,
PO Box 276,
LONDON
SW8 5DT
England
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gleason at scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Subject: Re: Shoes and Pattens...
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 20:59:51 GMT
Hi all,
I just called UNIPUB in MD. They are the US Distributor of HMOS publications who
prints the S&P and other books. Shoes and Pattens is pack in print! And in stock!
I was so happy I ordered 2 copies. The cost is $24.95 + shipping (UPS).
They also have Dress Accessories at $95.95.
Numbers: 800-274-4888 (U.S.) and 800-233-0504 (Canada)
Parlan
------------------------------
Robert Gleason
>> gleason at scf28.scf.loral.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rorice at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice)
Subject: Re: Footwear
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 16:39:30 GMT
Shoes and Pattens: Medieval finds from Excavations in London
Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergard; HMSO; London. 1988. ISBN 0 11
290443 2
This book has patterns and notes on construction techniques for
shoes from ca. 1250-1450 based on actual medieval shoes. It also has
numerous line drawings and photos of the archeological finds. It is the
single best book if you are interested in making medieval shoes.
Lothar
From: habura at rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: CRAFTS: Shoemaking?
Date: 11 Oct 1994 20:28:03 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Keywords: crafts, shoes
on Clarisia's post: If your persona happens to be 15th c. and from the
area now known as the Netherlands and Belgium, the "mary-jane" style
China flat is a pretty good recreation of one style of women's footgear.
I have on my lap a reproduction of Brueghel's _The Peasant Dance_ (printed
in, of all places, Michael Jackson's _New World Guide to Beer_, p. 113).
Two dancing figures, a man and a woman, occupy the right foreground. The
woman's left leg is in the air, and the top of her shoe is clearly visible.
It is black, either fabric or thin leather (it appears to have most of
its shape determined by the foot it covers), and has a slipper shape held
to the foot by a thin strap across the top. The strap is held in place
by a buckle on the outer edge of the foot. Unfortunately, the sole
is not visible, and all other visible shoes in the painting look much
like leather soft oxfords. (The oxford-style shoe is worn by both sexes.)
At any rate, I'd be reluctant to lump that style of China flat in with
sneakers; it's far less offensive.
Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: bubba at adolf.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: CRAFTS: Shoemaking?
Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:53:26 +0100
Organization: Lulea University Computer Society - Ludd
Keywords: crafts, shoes
Greetings from Ulf....
In <37eebj$gbr at charm.gandalf.ca> ekenny at gandalf.ca (Erin Kenny GMSI) writes:
>The shoes I have been wearing to events have finally died, and they are not
>replaceable (I bought them at a market in Santiago, Chile, and it's a little
>expensive to go there just to buy shoes). I HATE the idea of wearing sneakers
>or "china flats" to events.
>Does anyone have any suggestions. I would cheerfully make my own, but I
>haven't the foggiest idea where to start. If someone could start me out with
>some helpful hints, I would really appreciate it.
>Thanx
>Claricia
A quite simple shoe that can be made to look quite advanced is made from
three pieces. A sole, an upper-/frontpiece and a backpiece.
A pair of lasts could be a good help as well.
It's of course a question of what period you want the shoe to be from.
I want to recommend you to use a good sole-leather for the sole, and if
you're walking a lot on concrete or asphalt you should glue on a (brrrrrr)
rubber-/latexsole (please forgive me) to keep the shoes from getting
worn out to soon.
||\
|| \
1-->|| \
|| \
|| |<--2
|| |
|| | This shoe is seen from the side "standing" on its heel.
||\ / It's a sole(1), the upper-/frontpiece(2) and the backpiece(3).
|| \/ (Known World Handbook 3rd edition page 41)
|| \
|| \<--3
||____|
I hope this is of some help / Ulf
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ulf Mj|dtunga * U.J|rgen \hman
Frostheim(where frogs live, NOT)* U.Joergen Oehman (NHL-spelling)
Barony of Nordmark *
Kingdom of Drachenwald * bubba at ludd.luth.se
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From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re; Crafts: Shoemaking?
Date: 12 Oct 1994 09:55:12 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Claricia:<ekenny at gandalf.ca (Erin Kenny GMSI)>
>Does anyone have any suggestions. I would cheerfully make my own, but I
>haven't the foggiest idea where to start. If someone could start me out with
>some helpful hints, I would really appreciate it.
Until I can get a chance to write up a full article on it (a week or so tops,
I hope), I can give you a basic idea of what to do.
If the shoes you've been using are still in existance, that's great. You have
two options:
Option 1:
Step 1 - very carefully dissasemble one of them along its seams.
Step 2 - Using this as a pattern, mark out a pattern on a bit of leather
For the uppers, I'd suggest something soft, for the sole I'd suggest
thickish vegetable tanned cow hide. Be sure to place a bit of seam
allowance in the uppers, especially along where the sole will attach.
A bit of seam allowance around the sole is not a bad idea as well.
Step 3 - Cut a welt. This is a strip of leather that will go between
the upper and the sole. Make it at least the circumference of the sole
long and at least 3/4 an inch wide (it's more than you actually need,
but better safe than sorry.)
Step 4 - Stich the upper together (Unless you are doing boots, in which
case, save the legs for last
Step 5 - Turn the upper inside out, and the sole topside out. You will
want to stitch the uppers to the BOTTOM of the Sole, with the welt sand
wiched between them:
___/
------
----------
When you are finished, you should have what looks like a shoe turned in
side out.
Step 6 - Turn the shoe right side out. If you have to (and if you made
the uppers from anything stiffer than calfskin, you may have to), soak
the shoe in water before turning it.
Option 2:
Step 1 - Carefully separate the uppers from the sole.
Step 2 - Cut a new sole and welt.
Step 3 - Assemble as above.
Note: While you can actually wear it at this stage, I'd advise placing
a more firm sole on it. You should be able to take it to any shoemaker/
cobbler in your location to put one on (I'm trying to convince my wife's
champion that he needs those thick waffle stomper soles to fight in) -
or you can do it yourself. If you want heels, you will have to find