shoemaking-msg

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shoemaking-msg - 3/5/08

Making shoes. More detailed than shoes-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: lasts and shoemaking

Date: 9 Apr 1995 16:24:30 -0500

During the last major debate on Lasts, a note was posted by Thora

Sharptooth (aka priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu), Dated (17 Feb 95)

Subject: Jorvik Last (was: re: Lasts) for which I am extremely

grateful. However, while while I found it highly informative at

the time, I missed a significant detail it was relating, as I

was busy reading it for another bit of information. Having

recently come across a copy of the work she was quoting, I was

struck by said detail, and thought I'd re-post it and stress it.

I am curious about any thoughts on the matter from our more

experienced shoemakers and cobblers...

>Here's a quote of the section on the tenth century Jorvik last

>from pages 144-145 of ANGLO-SCANDINAVIAN FINDS FROM LLOYDS BANK,

>PAVEMENT, AND OTHER SITES, by Arthur MacGregor...

>"Shoemaker's lasts (Fig 74)

She didn't show the picture, but the last it shows (as best as

can be presented in this format:

|-------------------------21.5 cm----------------------------|

|-----------9 cm------------|

___ ____________________________ _____

| | \___ \____

| | \_______ \_12.75 cm__

| | \_______ \

8 cm | \________

| | |

| | ___/

| |_____________________________________________________/

It is clearly a "Left" and is 7.5 cm in breadth at the widest point

(7.5 cm behind the toe).

>"A shoemaker's last (494) of alder forms an interesting complement

>to other leatherworking evidence from the Lloyds Bank site. The

>profile is typical of several of the shoes discussed above, except

>that the heel of the last is cut off rather squarely....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I just wanted to stress that bit

>"Although these are the first such finds from the British Isles,

>a number of Continental parallels can be cited: Schia (1977, 321,

>fig. 35) illustrates on example along with other evidence for

>shoemaking in medieval Oslo, although firm dating evidence for the

>last itself is lacking; another last from Wolin in northern

>Poland, very similar in appearance to 494, is described by

>Kostrzewski (1949, 278, fig. 149). About 200 lasts, ranging in

>date from the 10th to the 15th century, were found in excavations

>at Novgorod (Izyumova, 1959, 198f., fig. 1). These varied over a

>wide range of sizes and also showed clear distinctions between

>right and left shoes. Stylistically, 494 compares most closely

>with a last from Novgorod which is rather higher in profile and

>would have been used for making boots but which incorporates [p.

>145] the same general features, including a squared-off heel and

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>a flat top lacking any socket or peg for attachment to a bench;

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>the type is said to have been current there from the 11th to the

>13th century (Izyumova, 1959, 199, fig. 1, 2)."

>The references MacGregor cites are, in full:

>Izyumova, S.A., 1959. 'K istorii kozhevennogo i sapozhnogo

remesel novgoroda velikogo' in A.F. Artsikhovskii and B.A.

Kolchin (eds.), TRUDY NOVGORODSKOI ARKHEOLOGISCHESKOI

EKSPEDITSII 2. Materialy i Issledovaniya po Arkheologii SSSR

65 (Moscow), 192-222.

>Kostrzewski, J., 1949. LES ORIGINES DE LA CIVILISATION POLONAISE.

Publs. de l'Institut Occidental 1 (Paris).

>Schia, E., 1977. 'Sko som arkeologisk kildemateriale', HIKUIN 3,

303-24.

However, in the same work, MacGregor states on page 138:

"From its general shape it is clear that this boot was worn on

the right foot, with the toggle fastening on the inside [he is, of

course referring to the inner ankle side -- Diarmuit] A similarly

arranged toggle on the other foot would have made walking rather

tedious since the two fastenings would have been prone to catch on

one another [debatable -- Diarmuit]. It seems, however, that no

distinction was generally made between shoes for the left and right

foot before the later medieval period (Groenman-Van Waateringe,

1974, 113f), so that the toggle may have been on the outside of the

corresponding left shoe (see, however, the evidence for

differentiation between left and right in the lasts discussed

below, p. 144 [or above in this post -- Diarmuit])"

The source he cites is:

Groenmann-van Waateringe, W., 1974. "Die Eintwicklunge der

Schuhmode in 2500 Jahren", DIE KUNDE, new ser. 25, 96-119.

I therefore reassert my suspicion that these lasts are used for

something other than their modern function in early medieval show

manufacture. Or is there something I'm missing?

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep

-- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

From: brithyla at aol.com (BriThyla)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period knives and shoes (was jurying merchants)

Date: 12 Jul 1996 20:42:53 -0400

There are a couple of patterns for Plains Indian high top moccasins that

are readily adaptable to period use. The method of construction of the

soles and uppers is in line with the museum of London examples. Adding the

shaft may or may not be correct for our period. The one thing that one

needs to know about the museum of London patterns is that the X shaped

cuts in the uppers were placed there for the comfort of the wearer. They

were placed so as to relieve pressure on bunions and corns. This technique

is still used today for quick fixes until a modern custom fitted shoe can

be made. (This last bit of information was not researched in a library but

rather at the shop of a gentleman who has been repairing, making, and or

selling orthopedic shoes for probably 40 years. Therefore documentation is

not available. I didn't get the job, but we did have a fun conversation.)

Sorry, with Pennsic coming, I've been spending far too much time sniffing

leather fumes. But my backroom smells sooo good.

Cheers,

Brian Broadaxe

From: LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: How to attach hobnails to hobnailed boots?

Date: 25 Oct 1996 09:18:32 -0400

<P. Cornelius Nauta<palmer at ansoft.com (Palmer Davis)>>>

>I am attempting to make a pair of Roman _caligae_, which looks like

>a fairly simple task from the pattern that I have...

>I have seen metal tacks with

>rounded caps at the mundane hardware store that look like they

>ought to fit the bill for the hobnails...

If they are the sorts of tacks I am thinking of, you may have some

problems with the heads coming off at the slightest excuse.

>...but am uncertain about the

>attachment of the soles and hobnails. Are the hobnails simply

>nailed into the sole with the points toward the sole of the foot?

Yes, and no. They are nailed upwards, unil the point runs into the metal

of the Lasts the Romans used to do this on, which turned the point away

from the foot and back into the sole. On TOP of this, you wear an inner

sole that is not nailed.

>bottom two layers together. But that arrangement makes it difficult

>or impossible for a soldier on the march to replace missing or damaged

>nails,

Why? I can think of several ways to solve the problem, not the least of

which is (since the head's coming off, or wearing away is the most likely

damage to occur that would require replacing the nail) pushing the nail

all the way though (after removing the inner sole, of course), just as you

are alleged to do when removing arrows. Then, if you don't have the

real equipment, you find some convenient rocks. Hammer the new nail in,

and, if necessary, turning it over and hammering the nail point flat.

Replace the inner sole and put it back on.

>as various references indicate was a period practice. And do

>I stitch the sole layers together? Use some sort of a glue? Trust

>to the hobnails?

As far as I know, from the archaeological remains, you trust your

feet to good Roman smithing.

I. Marc Carlson, Reference Librarian |LIB_IMC at CENTUM.UTULSA.EDU

Tulsa Community College, West Campus LRC|Sometimes known as:

Reference Tech. McFarlin Library | Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

University of Tulsa, 2933 E. 6th St. | University of Northkeep

Tulsa, OK 74104-3123 (918) 631-3794 | Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: How to attach hobnails to hobnailed boots?

Date: 26 Oct 1996 06:02:06 GMT

Ave, P. Cornelius Nauta

In constructing a Roman (or other variety) of shoe, you are

not usually dealing with a single layer of leather. There is

normally a sole, which is a thick, tough piece of leather. And

there is usually an innersole. There may be several layers.

For your hobnailed sole. you'd want to drive the nails through

the sole leather, points up. I cut the point off a short

distance above the surface and then peen the nail down

smoothly like a rivet. Depending on the thickness of the

nailshaft, sometimes I use a washer over the nail, then peen

it.

The two-layer construction has several other benefits. For

example, the straps of the sandal are usually trapped

between the inner and outer sole layers. This means that the

rough strap end is not rubbing against your foot, or making an

uncomfortable lump underneath your shoe.

If you want a thicker sole, you can use several layers of

leather, slued and stitched together.

I recommend that anyone learning to build cobbled shoes of

any variety go to a thrift store and buy and old pair of work

boots, Red Wing or the like. Then take them home and

carefully take the boot apart into its component pieces. You

can learn a lot about the basic construction of a cobbled shoe

in this manner. Once you have done this, go find a shop that

does on-site shoe repair and ask the proprietor to let you

observe. Tell them why, many are older folks who are glad

and amazed to see a younger person with an interest in his

art. If you are not acareful, you may find yourself an

apprentice!

Good luck!

Gunnora Hallakarva

Herskerinde

From: "Peter N. Biddle" <peterbi at microsoft.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Sole nails and a good leather supply reference

Date: 21 Jan 1997 23:34:13 GMT

Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Awhile back there was a thread on what sort of nails were/are used for the

leather soles of shoes. I never saw an answer; my own research has turned

up the following:

They are called "clinch" nails. They are specifically designed to be

pounded through leather on a steel last or anvil. The nail itself tapers

through most of it's length and the tip of the nail is quite thin and

sharp. It rolls up into a fiddlehead when it hits the steel, leaving only a

tiny speck of metal exposed. The fiddlehead itself stays in the leather and

acts much like a peened-over rivet to keep the material together (and the

nail in place). According to my information, they should be appx 1/8 - 3/16

of an inch longer than the total thickness of the materials you are

attaching together. They are not big nails like upholstery nails - they are

more like brads.

Clinch nails are available in both steel and brass. I bought them by the

pound from Terry at Macphersons leather in Seattle WA. Macphersons also has

a huge selection of leather and findings; I have a full suit of wax

hardened leather armor I built with materials from there and I have been

very happy with the service and the prices. (I have NO relation to them

beyond that of a customer.) Tell Terry you are from the SCA and that I

referred you.

Macpherson Leather Company - Terry Lee Durbin

519 12th Ave S

Seattle, WA 98144

800.343.9949

206.328.0855

206.328.0859 (fax)

Good building,

Colm

Subject: Boots and Shoes

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 11:52:08 MST

From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>

To: Merryrose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>

Since someone asked for information on boots:

For those truehearts who wish to make their own -

The premier site for make your own medieval shoes is:

Footwear of the Middle Ages by I. Marc Carlson,

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SHOEHOME.HTM

(For the Mongols there is a plan for Mongol boots.)

Marc also contributes to Leather Crafter's Corner:

http://web0.tiac.net/users/hollyoak/lthcraft.htm

(Both the above are reachable from http://www.sca.org/ .

The stockclerk also sells some patterns for shoes.)

Then there is Paul Lalonde's Burgundian Court Shoes:

http://www.loonie.net/~plalonde/World/SCA/shoe.html

Regia Angolrum's page on Medieval Leatherworking:

http://www.ftech.net/~regia/leatwork.htm

Costume Designs Footwear page for the Renn boot how to's is

not really medieval, but tastes vary... (read his ethics page).

http://www.uit.net/wmorris/costume/footwear/footwear_index.html

Some opinion and references on Scottish and Irish shoes at:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4715/shoes.html

Basic Viking Footwear at:

http://www.spoon.demon.co.uk/vikes/vikshoe.htm

..................................................

For those who wish to buy -

Shoes and Boots from Historic Enterprises (Swan and Lion):

http://www.historicenterprises.com/swanlion/Swan_index.html

http://www.historicenterprises.com/arms_and_armor/shoes_and_boots.html

Museum Replicas sells shoes and Boots that aren't too bad:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/

Then there is Chivalry Sports, also not too bad:

http://www.renstore.com/index.shtml

(Above are fairly good. Christian Fletcher Armory was selling Medieval

Turnshoes, but not in the current catalog.)

For those in cold climates, Mystic Caravan's Aussie Dogs sheepskin

boots and shoes: http://frognet.net/mystic-caravan/Aussie1.htm

They have a fairly primitive look to them. I think L. L. Bean sells

them too in season.

Minnetonka sells what they term Renaissance Boots:

http://www.minnetonka-by-mail.com/

Many folks buy these reasonably priced boots. Not really period but...

Tandy Leather: http://www.tandyleather.com/ has plans and supplies

for moccasin styles and leather.

.....................................................................

*(Before the Authenticity Police (TM) come after me, I do not endorse

the Renn Boot styles but tastes vary. Anyway, I have the

MoLondon book, MoDenmark book, and others on real period shoes.

I'd like to see them walk Pennsic in one thin layered sole.) ;8^P

Catskill Mountain Mocassins for really outrageous Renn Boots:

http://www.catskill-moc.com/

Some of the Dream Shoes from Bald Mountain Moccasins are not too

far OOP looks, but with thick soles: http://www.dreamshoes.com/

I would think that some of these might be good for Pennsic rocks.

And more outrageously styled Renn Boots from those folks:

http://pw1.netcom.com/~majormic/baldmtn.html

Put on your dark glasses for these Renn Boots:

http://www.sodhoppers.com/moccasin.htm

.....................................................................

International Internet Leatherworkers Guild pages: http://iilg.org/

for general Leather Information.

This was written for the web enabled to find sources, especially the

newbies.

M. Magnus Malleus, Atlantia and the GDHorde

Permission granted to repost within the SCA, (but OFF the Rialto).

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:18:44 -0600

From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>

To: mail2news-19990105-rec.org.sca at anon.lcs.mit.edu,

sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, ANSTEORRA at ANSTEORRA.ORG,

Subject: Honorable Company of Cordwainers site

For those who are interested in shoemaking, there is a (unofficial as

yet) web site for the Honorable Company of Cordwainers at

"http://www.bootmaker.com/hcc.htm";. Also there is the Chrispin

Coloquy, a web-based forum for those who want to discuss things about

shoemaking.

Marc Carlson

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:41 -0600

From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>

To: mail2news-19990222-rec.org.sca at anon.lcs.mit.edu, H-COSTUME at INDRA.COM

Cc: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Medieval Shoe comment...

Something that just came up, that may or may not be obvious to everyone making

or wearing medieval shoes (and to be honest, I'd never thought to mention

before) -- the edge closing seams on the uppers are called "flesh-edge"

seams for a reason. They are on the flesh side, which makes them on the

INSIDE of the shoe when it worn. In most sorts of medieval shoes, you

won't see the thread in any of the seams unless you take the shoes off and

look inside.

Marc/Diarmaid

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:44:41 -0400

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Plaster lasts

>I was just wondering how plaster lasts work. Can you tak the leather on

>like you can on a wooden las t and if you can't how do you keep the leather

>streched?

You can tack the leather on but it will give eventually, I used my plaster

last to make a aluminium one from, but you can tack that either, I made

mine mainly to use as a pattern aid.

If I needed to tack I would use one of those foams used for insulation, I

have hat blocks made of similar material and they work really well

Mel

Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:43:24 -0400

From: "Gregory Stapleton" <gregsta at perigee.net>

To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: RE: heel stiffeners?

> As far as I've been able to see heelstiffeners where sewed on with tunnel

> stitch(right term?) a stitch that doesn't go all the way through the

> leather. I find it really hard to sew this kind of stitch

> especially with a

> normal straight needle so I was wondering. Are there any other documented

> way that they sewed on heel stiffeners (we're talking 12-16 century here)?

> If you have any tips on what type of needle to use or any other tips would

> be appreciated. Maybe I'm using leather that is too thin for my

> uppers. How

> thick leather do you cobblers out there general use?

> Anna de Byxe, who's kind of nervous since she's going to be holding a

> beginners class on shoe making at the Dubbels wars in May and she's never

> done that before :-)

You could use a curved awl to make the tunnel stitches or, lacking that, try

about a number 3 glovers needle. I've been working with 2.5 to 3 ounce

leather for my shoes recently and can do tunnel stitches in this. Good luck

with your class. If it's hands-on, my recommendation would be not to take

on more than 6 students for your first time.

Gawain Kilgore / Gregory Stapleton

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:59:58 -0400

From: "Gregory Stapleton" <gregsta at perigee.net>

To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: RE: shoemaking vs. cobbling?

> What is the difference between a Shoemaker and a Cobbler?

> Anna de Byxe

A shoemaker MAKES shoes. i.e. new ones. A cobbler only REPAIRS shoes.

i.e. doesn't make new shoes, fixes old shoes. That's about all there is to

it.

Gawain Kilgore

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:33:54 -0400

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: LIST Medieval leather <medieval-leather at egroups.com>

Cc: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Shoe & Boot designing

A while back I said I'd try to find out where this could be got, well I

just got my copy , which is great ! I'm not sure if I posted the info or

not so here it is again:

Shoe & Boot designing Manual - George Koleff GBP48.00 (special order

includes shipping)

Mel

From: rmhowe <mmagnusm at bellsouth.net>

Date: July 5, 2005 4:21:14 PM CDT

To: - Authenticity List <authenticity at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: medieval shoemaking list

Happened to notice this list on an email today.

medieval shoemaking list <medievalshoemaking at yahoogroups.com>

Of course the Medieval Leatherworking list has been online since

at least 1998 and also talks shoes [as does the more modern

Crispin Colloquy].

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medieval-leather/

Subscribe: medieval-leather-subscribe at yahoogroups.com