clothing-MN-msg - 9/14/99
Period and SCA maternity and nursing garb.
NOTE: See also the files: pregnancy-msg, cotehardies-msg, cl-Mid-East-msg,
babies-msg, teething-toys-msg, baby-gifts-msg, children-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: FRENCHBC%ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu at RELAY.CS.NET
Date: 26 Apr 90 15:55:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
In period, upper-class mothers did not generally nurse their own children.
That's what wet-nurses were for.
However, since there's no wet-nursing guild in the SCA, nursing mothers have
to make do. I'm not a mother myself, but I have a possible idea for garb
that would be suitable for both Pennsic and for nursing mothers. It's cool,
it's comfortable, it's ridiculously easy to make . . . though arguably, it's
not in period (although I don't know that for certain). It's the Greek
chiton,
the garb of choice of Meridian women in the hot summer months (which have
already started down here).
The Greek chiton uses the timeworn principle of the "square". The simplest
chiton is simply made of two squares sewn together from the floor to a few
inches below the wrist and fastened with buttons spaced about three inches
apart from the wrist to the neck. Another summer chiton, the one which I
think would be eminently adaptable for nursing garb, is sleeveless. The
square is overlapped at the top to form a fall of cloth over the back and
shoulders (note the sophisticated graphics to follow):
fastenings --> o--------o
/ \ <---fall of cloth)
| |
----------
| |
belt --> ________
OK, so this computer is limited at best. Basically, you cut the cloth about
a foot and a half longer than you need it to reach from the shoulder to the
ankles. Sew the sides from the floor to a few inches under the arms, depend-
ing on how big an armhole you want. Fold the extra foot and a half of cloth
at the top so that the extra panel of cloth covers the front and back of
the chiton. Fasten the chiton just over the points of the shoulders with
a couple strong stitches or a button.
This might be fairly easy to adapt to a nursing mother. The front panel of
the chiton would not cover the breasts alone, but it WOULD hide any closures
used for a nursing panel. Some ideas might be to cut out a square in the
chiton for the breasts and use some extra material to make a flap that could
button or snap in place; the extra-cloth fall would cover this closure
nicely. The chiton also affords sufficient coverage so that a nursing
mother could wear a nursing bra without it having to show; the placement of
the shoulder closures would be easily adjusted to cover the straps. It also
follows all the necessities for Pennsic: easy to make, cool and washable.
A longer chiton, using the same principle but going from wrist to wrist,
would be easy to make for some of the cooler, rainy days.
And, on top of that, a Byzantine nursing mother wouldn't have to go all that
far out of her persona to do it.
...Cait
Glaedenfeld/Meridies
From: bloch at mandrill.ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch)
Date: 27 Apr 90 02:02:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Somebody writes:
>I plan to still be nursing my baby by Pennsic, and have a problem.
>As far as I know, no Byzantine styles accomodate nursing! The
>styles I've seen for Byzantine garb all seem to be variations on
>long tunics with overtunics -- nothing in two pieces, and if I
>remember rightly, nothing with a plunging neckline.
I don't know about Byzantines in particular, but I think I remember
what my friend Aoibheil (Irish persona, but not a stickler for details
like what continent she's on) wore to Pennsic while breast-feeding.
(Let's see... Meredith was 3 months old for Pennsic. Aoibheil's best
friend's son was 15 months old. So-and-so's daughter was 27 months
old. Is there a pattern here?) It had a deep plunging neckline, but
covered by essentially a narrow white tabard, running under the belt
and falling to the same length as the dress. When she wanted to nurse,
she could tuck Meredith's head under the tabard, the kid was out of
the sun (as was Aoibheil's chest), and even modest onlookers weren't
shocked. With a little Byzantine-looking trim on the edges of the
tabard (and a different color than white, as long as the fabric was
light), it would even look reasonably period.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a costumer. I make T-tunics and bathrobes for
myself at the rate of one a year, nothing fancy.
Stephen Bloch
Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
From: KGANDEK at MITVMC.MIT.EDU (Kathryn Gandek)
Date: 27 Apr 90 16:59:43 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
To quote Caitrin Gordon on making a Greek Chiton:
The Greek chiton uses the timeworn principle of the "square". The simplest
chiton is simply made of two squares sewn together from the floor to a few
inches below the wrist and fastened with buttons spaced about three inches
apart from the wrist to the neck. (end quote)
Cait, thanks for giving me an opening to one of my favorite pieces of odd
information. My costume history/design teacher in college taught us a different
way of making a chiton, which drapes in a way I prefer to the above method.
Instead of using two pieces of fabric, use one long one.
The dimensions of the fabric:
The width of the fabric is the distance from your shoulder to the ground.
(This can very depending on style--I'll explain later.)
The length of the fabric is twice the distance between the tips of your fingers
(or less if you need to, but don't decrease it by too much or it looks odd.)
How this fabric makes a chiton:
DO NOT CUT THE FABRIC. Fold it in half width-wise. Position yourself within
the fabric so the fold is located at one hand and the open half at the other.
Overlap the fabric at your shoulders, gathering it as you choose, and pin it.
Variations on the theme:
If you were a woman from Sparta, you might well wear the chiton just like that,
without sewing up the side. If you were a "later period Greek" from Athens,
you would probably sew up the side. You also might have a peplum, kolpos or
fancy method of girdling the chiton. (Sometimes they got quite complicated!)
Peplum & kolpos---A folded over section at the top of the chiton made by
pinning together two folds instead of two edges at your shoulders, and a
folded
over section made by girdling the waist and then pulling excess material over
the girdle (which was frequently then girdled again on top of the fold).
Two other variations are to pin only one shoulder of the chiton or to run pins
at intervals down the arms making sleeves.
I am willing to believe that chitons were made of two separate pieces of
material "in period", but I know they were also made this way and the resulting
garment falls quite nicely...once you get used to putting it on. The first
couple of times you try to pin yourself into one...well, you may come up with
some creative phrases to express your feelings. Especially if you want folds
like the ones in Greek statuary. The softer the fabric, the better your odds
of the folds working like the pictures it seems. (Personal opinion--chitons
that fall like the pictures and aren't flat fabric are easier on the eye.)
Oh, and one other interesting scrap--The tops of these were generally fastened
with fibulae (pins composed of a pretty part and then a very long, narrow
pointy part), of which certain styles were eventually outlawed. It seems that
a great number of crimes of passion were occurring due to the ready
availability of weapons!
Catrin o'r Rhyd For Kathryn Gandek
Barony of Carolingia Boston Area
East Kingdom Kgandek%mitvmc.bitnet at mitvma.mit.edu
From: LCRAMER%HAMPVMS.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: 3 May 90 17:58:00 GMT
There was a lady who requested information for nursing in the SCA.
I'm not familiar enough with Byzantine (her period) costume to
make a suggestion for that period, but I recall seeing a picture of
The Virgin Mary nursing Jesus in a Rennaisance gown with a lace up bodice
(unlaced) and a loose chemise (pulled down).
I hope this is of some assistance.
LaMaia the Barefoot
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: maternity garb
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 20:10:41 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Jamelyn, For maternity garb I would suggest something like
a nice Russian dress(the correct term escapes me right now) or
burgundian the burgundian style was supposed to make women look
pregnant even when they weren't-being fertile was the fashion of the
time. The style of russian I am thinking of is basically a full length
full circle of very flowing fabric that falls from a fitted band just
above the breasts. The fabric is pleated into the band and the
skirt is very full. As to blue- A discussion on the Historic costuming
mail group said that light blue was for servants very dark blue such as
would be achieved by many times in the dye vat could only be afforded
by the wealthy-Isabeau Pferdebandiger
From: DCROSS at eos.bentley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: maternity garb
Date: 21 Jul 94 16:14:42 EDT
Organization: Bentley College, Waltham MA
SADV153 at larry.HUc.uab.EDU (Jo Grove) writes:
>
> Also, what colors of blue are acceptable for Elizabethan dress? I've
> heard that indigo is considered a servant or apprentice color during
> this period (which is fine by me, since I'm an apprentice as well as
> a Baroness...only in the SCA!...but I'm thinking in terms of Court
> garb here). I remember reading somewhere that "azure", a brilliant
> blue, is acceptable, as is watchet (which seems to be some sort of
> turquoise or bluish-green as far as I can tell by a verbal
> description). My husband has graciously relenquished a whopping
> plentitude of deep blue material that was originally intended for a
> horse trapper (thanks, hon, but I don't think I'll need *quite* that
> much! :-) ), but I'd rather not make anything from it until I have a
> better idea of when that color would have been in use and whether or
> not it's acceptable for Court garb.
If you are speaking late 16th c. ENGLISH, I wouldn't be caught dead in blue
(such a sad thing to lose one's station!). However, if you sail over the
Channel, there are some FRENCH gowns depicted in blue. (By implication, SCOTS
may have worn blue but I have never pursued that angle) Get some portrait books
with color pictures to get the minor styling details down, I can't begin to
explain them since I am English and have only noted differences in French
dress. What I have seen over the years, though would hardly be considered
maternity wear (the corsetted, pointy waist type stuff with farthingale). If
you are interested in sticking with Elizabethan (English
styles), red, white, and black are most prevalent, followed by
gold/brown/rust/orange types of colors and some green. The gold, etc family
has decent pictorial evidence but green is scarce for women although the
literature mentions it.
The portraits of Elizabethan pregnant ladies that I have seen all seem to have
a very loose white underdresses with a black overcoat (ropa) buttoned down the
top to the beginning of the baby bulge. There is no farthingale. Janet
Arnold's Patterns of Fashions has a graphed layout of the garment that can be
scaled up. Don't forget what ever you sew now
will still fit well enough after birth. Plan ahead and make the garment serve
double duty as a nursing gown if you plan to breast feed.
Perhaps you can have someone dye the fabric black? (Don't attempt to yourself
if you are already pregnant).
Good luck,
Mistress Elayne Courtenay
Carolingia, East
From: mugjf at uxa.ECn.bgu.EDU (Gwyndlyn J Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: maternity garb
Date: 21 Jul 1994 15:21:16 -0400
Baroness Jamelyn asked about maternity garb:
My lady, If you might consider an earlier period, I would recommend the
sideless surcote of the 13th Century. It can be made quite roomy, and
with minor hem adjustment can be worn after the blessed event. It is the
cooler cousin of the houpelande.The sideless surcote can be worn over your
favorite roomy chemise now, and over a more fitted cotehardie later on.
The nice thing is that the surcote can be dressed up or down, made out of
cotton, wool or even brocades (definately suitable for court). They are
quite easy to make, and are of the two-in-an-evening variety.
I have patterns that I would be happy to share if you would like. And
Congratulations!
Rhiannon Caer Vyrddin
March of Lochmorrow - Midrealm
Internet: mugjf at bgu.edu
From: Jo Grove (7/22/94)
To: Mark Harris
Mail*Link SMTP RE>maternity garb
Thank you for the info. One person sent me a note suggesting the use
of sideless surcoats over a chemise. After the baby is born, it's
easy to alter the hem of the surcoat and wear it over a more fitted
cotehardie instead.
If you ever see a picture of an Elizabethan overdress, or ropa,
you'll see it's very suitable for both maternity wear and nursing
wear. It's basically a lot like a modern day bathrobe, with a high
collar and yoke and a button-down front. It's meant to be worn as
fancy wear over the standard bodice, kirtle and farthingale, or as
informal dress over a chemise or nightshirt. Down each side of the
front, from the shoulders to about midway down, is a slit that has a
row of buttons or points to fasten it shut. These can be opened for
nursing. Sometimes these really opened, serving a functional
purpose, and sometimes they were just decorative (trim sewn on the
gown as if to frame a nursing opening, with buttons or points added
for purely decorative purposes, but the gown didn't really open
there.)
Ropas are pretty, but unfortunately they take a lot of yardage so
they're not for someone on a tight budget. They also take a little
fitting/pattern improvisation, though I'm told you can take a shirt
or blouse pattern with a back yoke and improvise from there. They
make very pretty Court garb, though!
:-) Thanks again!
Jamelyn
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: maternity garb
Date: 21 Jul 1994 20:44:20 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Greetings...
The sideless surcote is a 14th century garment. Its predecessor,
the sleeveless surcote or sleeveless overtunic, dates from about the mid
13th century on. Thirteeth century styles involve a lot of fabric and
are flowing through the body but tight through the sleeves. A lady
of my canton wore them throughout her pregnancy and was only "noticable"
towards the end.
I would also recommend simple Italian Ren. Since the "waistline"
for this style is often right below the bust, opeing out below
that to show off the underskkirt, you will have something which will
accomodate your expanding waistline without alteration. If you make it
lace at the sides, you can even accomodate the bustline changes which
sort of go along with being preggers, and still be able to wear it after
the pregnancy.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
***************************************************************
Susan Carroll-Clark Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester
Department of History (aka Nika Sergievna)
University of Toronto Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: mugjf at uxa.ECn.bgu.EDU (Gwyndlyn J Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: maternity garb
Date: 22 Jul 1994 00:01:00 -0400
Oops, I got my centuries mixed up! (never can remember, is it add or
subtract from the year?) Anyway, I also meant to add that I have seen a
friend of mine (who is missing Pennsic 'cause she's due) wearing a
houpelande made up in cotton, so that it was lighter. She could wear her
belt high, as was appropriate, or low (under her belly) which she said
was more comfortable. Another idea would be the loose, unbelted Saxon
tunic -- mighty comfy, but hard to nurse from.
I remain (up to my neck sewing for War),
Rhiannon Caer Vyrddin
March of Lochmorrow-Midrealm
Internet: mugjf at bgu.edu
From: pourel at iastate.edu (Ina Pour-El)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: maternity garb
Date: 22 Jul 1994 18:06:08 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
If you are planning to breastfeed I suggest sideless surcotes for both
before and after birth. I had a long slit in the front of my undergown and
while my babies thought the surcote was just another blanket, I did not hang out.
I would also suggest heavy terrycloth tabards for the newborn. I have
a pattern that I drew up when I realized that I needed a period looking
outer garment that would allow diaper changing and prevent leaks on the
court garb of friends. Mine have my device on them (differenced of course)
and have also been useful through the toddler years " Have you seen a kid
run by wearing a blue and white snake?"
Ina Caspe de LaPointe
--
I. Pour-El
pourel at iastate.edu
From: bloodthorn at sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: maternity garb
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 21:19:03 GMT
>Can anyone send me ideas on making "maternity" garb?
One of Pagan's Rules of Thumb for Reconstructing Clothing from Inadequate
Sources is that for women's clothing the interpretation which best deals with
pregnancy and breastfeeding is probably correct. It's amazing how your focus
changes when someone says "We're having a child in June, and do you have any
ideas for maternity garb?"
>.... I'm not sure if my limited sewing skills can handle
>the Elizabethan overdress without a pattern to follow.
Have a look at the Janet Arnold book on clothing from about 1580-1620, which
has pictures of a real one and a graphed pattern redacted from it. Not too
complex, and a very useful garment (use it over a chemise as a housecoat, and
over all your garb as an extra layer in cold weather.) Make the breast-
feeding slots relatively long and bear their purpose in mind when deciding on
fasteners. Alternatively, "The Elizabethan Handbook" has a simplified
version of the ropa which should be easy to whip up. Lots of fabric, but
most of it is straight sewing.