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babies-msg - 12/1/11

Camping with babies. Handling babies at SCA events. Infant safety.

NOTE: See also the files: baby-gifts-msg, children-msg, child-clothes-msg,
child-books-msg, teething-toys-msg, toys-msg, child-wagons-msg, baby-slings-msg.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                         Stefan at florilegium.org
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Babies at Penssic

I took a nine month old to Pensic last year.  Because she kept growing too
fast, i didn't even try to put her in garb.  I just took various of her regualr
clothes. I also used disposable diapers.  And all her food came out of boxes
and bottles.  Open a jar of baby food, feed it to her, and throw away the jar.
No dishes to clean (you feed her straight from the bottle, no need to warm it
up) In the morning I made her cereal from dry flakes, and sometimes fed it to
her during the day when it seemed too hot and she was fussy.  This stuff won't
upset an overstressed stomach.  Do not use Pensic water, not for you or the
kid. You don't want to run the risk that you might develop something, and
then you would find yourself making mad dashes for the porta johns with a baby
tucked under your arm.  Take enough bottles so that you don't have to wash
them. Sterilizing is next to impossible at Pensic, and is too much hassle to
even try.  If you use distilled water to make formula, then you don't need to
boil the water first.  Some people worry about distilled water leaching
minerals from a person.  Don't worry, the formula has full nutrition.  And I
reccommend formula, don't try to take milk, your refrigeration at Pensic is too
unrelibale. A helpful hint:  soy fomrula does not stain, and doesn't smell
nearly as bad as milk based formula.  If your child gets moderately ill, they
will be able to drink soy formula diluted more than usual when you you couldn't
use milk formula because the kid throws it up.  It's also not nearly as bad for
you to get covered in soy vomit rather than milk vomit.  This has happened to
me, and believe me, at times like that, little blessings are greatly
appreciated.

Do take something that you can set up to prevent your child wandering, and shade
it. Always keep your child covered, they are much more prone to sunstroke and
sunburn than adults.  Give them lots and lots of water.  Whenever they fuss,
stick a bottle of water into them.  Then check diaper and other usual causes
of complaint.  You can't over water a child, they'll jsut pee it out. Try to keep an eye to input and output, if they are not more or less equal, you have a
serious problem. Children who are suffering illness or heat exhaustion will
become more ittitable, or conversely, quieter.  If your child seems to be
deviating from its usual behaviour, investigate.  Check temperature (do bring a
thermometer and acetominaphn, anti-diarhea medication, diaper rash medication,
antihistiamine, and any other medication you might possibly want.  This
includes a jug of Pedialyte-one jug will allow you to feed a child while some
ones else rushes to the drug store to stock up on pedialyte for you.)  If your
child throws up, convert to clear liquids and consult a chirurgeon. Vomitting
or diarhea can kill a child with dehydration within a few hours.  WAter is not
adequate, Pedialyte contains elotrolytes and other  necessary substances.
Remember to take some alcohol to sterilize the thermomet and other medical
apparatus after each use.  Pensic is hot, be alert, your small infant
will suffer from the heat at some point, but if you are alert you can take
necessary steps to prevent serious problems form developing.

Taking a child to Pensic is doable, but not easy.  My husband and I were
snappish with one another, and found our activities greatly curtailed.  We took
turns staying with the child and going off by ourselves.  We did not party, we
were too beat.  A noble lady volunteered to babysit for us and we shot our
archery points together.  My husband vetoed taking the stroller as being
unsuited to the Pensic terrain, but I wish I had some sort of transportation
because you get tired of hauling a kid around.  I think maybe a wagon would be
good, it means to can put your babycare kit in the wagon with the baby instead
of carrying it.  Also, if you get tired, you have something to sit on. Make
sure you drink lots of liquids, particualry water, as worrying about a kid,
plus serving the kids needs will take a lot more out of you than you ever
imagined it would.  

I don't want to scare you into not taking kids to Pensic, but if you're doing
it alone, or with your partner, you're biting off a big undertaking.  We were
unable to camp with our group, so our casual babysitters were not around when
we needed them.  Having someone to babysit for you is a godsend.  I applaud
Marian Greenleaf for working so diligently to accomodate her groups children.
That kind of group support makes a world of difference.  Unfortunately, it
doesn't happen here, even though I've made attmepts to start it.  

Yours in service.
Awilda Halfdane
Bright Hills, Atlantia
sgj%ctj.uucp at wb3ffv.ampr.org


From: Orilee_J_Ireland-Delfs.wbst845 at XEROX.COM
Date: 15 Feb 90 21:37:25 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

(I sent the gentle who asked a long dissertation on taking a baby camping.
I would like to summerize for the net as a whole.  If anyone has questions
or comments on my list, feel free to contact me.)

Items to consider:
A play yard (fence-type item with no bottom.  Wooden ones are available if
you can find them, Sears has an okay (although expensive) plastic one).
A wading pool or tub for cooling off and bathing
Baby-type items for keeping baby happy yet confined for times when you are
cooking or whatever (highchair, swing)  A little imagination could dress it
up to make it look less mundane
Easy to prepare foods.  Juices in individual cartons (lots of juice - good
for hot weather).  Crackers, cheese, cereal (wheat squares with raisins are
good munchies), bread and peanut butter, fruit (bananas, grapes, apple
chunks) fresh or dried.
A trunk to use as a changing table/storage
A portable crib or foam bolsters around a pile of bedding
Heavy pajama sleepers for the cool damp nights
Sun bonnets (made in period fabrics)
Baby sun screen
Bug repellant that is child-tested
Light weight garb in cottons or gauze that covers the arms and legs as
protection from sun and bugs
Heavy weight garb for cooler weather, particularly for layering, including
mittens and booties for real little ones who can't protect their hands
A babysitter for occasional babysitting time
A cart or wagon to carry the baby in, particularly at big events
blankets or throws to play on
Toys

Obviously, everything on this list should be modified to age-appropriate
for the child.  Also, if you have period substitutes for these things,

Lady Orianna vander Delft, mother of a very active 2 1/2 year old
Thescorre, AEthelmearc, East
Rochester, NY  


From: asparrow at nyx.cs.du.edu (Angelia Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camping with Babies
Date: 16 May 1994 09:42:45 -0600

Lilies is not Pennsic and a 2 month old is not a five month old, but
Here's what I have.

Baby will be fine either sleeping in your bedroll (handy for late night
nursings), a portable bassinette basket (what we used, may be too small
for a 5 mo.) or a play pen.  The play pen is my choice and I'll be putting
my 2 in it for sleep at the Lilies this summer.  It's nice and confining
for the big kids.

Take lots of diapers!  Treble what you think you'll need, and store them
in a water tight container.  I lost half a bag during Pavel's Flood last
year.

A front carrier pack is indispensible!  And your broad-brimmer hat should
provide enough shade for both.  But, if he'll wear it, pack bonnets.  It
really helps.

Sunscreen, specially formulated for babies, and ignore the under 6 mo
warning. It's necessary.

PArental sanity: take more trhan one adult per kid.  Nap when the baby
does. Don't over schedule.  Don't be afraid to nurse in public.  Drink
lots of water.  Be prepared to call it a night at 8 pm, instead of 2 am.

The magic expanding baby dress in the old KNown WorldHandbook is a life
saver. (Make a T-tuni wqay too big and then take it up.)

Aetyhelynde, with a terrible Two for Lilies this year.


From: berman at cauchy.math.lsu.edu (Glenn Berman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camping with Babies
Date: 18 May 1994 14:16:45 GMT
Organization: Louisiana State University InterNetNews Site

Just one follow up to the excellent suggestions already posted.  Choose  
your campsite very very carefully so that the noise won't wake up the  
young one at 1 A.M., and don't be afraid to let people know that you have  
a child and would appreciate they take the volume to some other section of  
the event site.

Best of Luck (taking my child to any sort of camping makes me yearn for  
Monday when I can get a good nights sleep(but it's worth it))


From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camping with Babies
Summary: tips, medically-orientd mostly
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 11:52:03 EDT

kgandek at world.std.com (Kathryn GandekTighe) writes:
> This August we will be taking our 5 month old son to Pennsic.  Having
> been there as adults, we've got that part of the camping down to habit.  
> However, going with a baby obviously involved other considerations! I'd
> be interested to hear anyone else's handy tips/things that worked for
> you.  How did you handle the heat? the sun? the cold? In what did your
> child sleep? Any parental sanity tips?  (Being still at the stage where
> he and I are still getting up in the middle of the night, I never
> underestimate parental sanity tips :-)  
Respected friend:
I have children's nurses' aide certification, and four years
experience in children's hospitals, and have only missed one Pennsic since
#5. Some suggestions-
Use the diaper service out of Butler- dispoasbles are Very Bad in
the sticky humidity which adds so much to the Pennsic ambiance ;-}.
Call your tent manufacturer and find out if the material in it is
a UV blocker- Years ago, a child had to be hospitalized after lying in the
"shade" of a Non-UV blocking tent for four hours.
Bring Pedialite. If the baby has any trace of loose stool, start
feeding it ASAP. Get him used to the taste starting now.
If you can't nurse, start getting the baby used to powdered formula
made with distilled water now. Don't use tapwater at Pennsic for baby's
food unless you live within a 70-mile radius of Butler on a well-water source.
(IE not treated municipal water.)
Don't use liquid formula concentrate unless you're bringing a
refridgerator and have guaranteed power access. If baby must have liquid
formula, get the single ready-use kind- hideously expensive but much safer.
Don't let anybody give baby uncooked honey. It may contain live
salmonella. This includes more things than you might realize- be careful.
One period baby-toting system was a slat-woven pack basket, well
padded. Get one now and practice. This _is not_ safe for a child who can't
hold his head up yet.
Or make a hip-holder out of a strip of soft wool or flannel.
Or make a little cart with a shady hooped top. If you use inner tube
for the suspension straps it will have somewhat less jarring motion- but be
sure the innertube doesn't show.
Make up a handout of `What to do and not do around babies' for the
others sharing your campsite.
Find a babies' sunblock now that doesn't irritate his skin. Bring two
bottles minimum, since brands vary so much by region and you don't want to
expose him to an unchecked one when he's away from home. Keep one in the car
in case the campsite one grows feet.
Take infant & children's CPR classes through your Red Cross or
equivalent. Your baby won't need it this year, but someone else's might. And
when he's into solids he'll be crawling and you'll be too busy.
Take naps. If you get sick, he's in trouble too.
Make his tunics from children's sleepwear materials. Even at four
dollars a yard, the stuff's worth it for any Pennsic-bound child. It does come
in decent colors, so call around. Bring _detergent_ to wash them in; soap will
destroy the fire-retardency you paid serious bucks for.
If he has a known medical problem, find a nearby Pediatrician- the
Slippery Rock or Butler hospitals may have a referral service- and get
duplicate records sent to the office before you head out. It will make
emergency care much, much easier.
Memorize a polite way to say `You're infectious and I don't want you
near the baby.' Practice until you can say it nose-to-nose with the scariest
Megaduke we've got, if necessary. Use it.
Was your hands and his face every chance you get. If you nurse, wash
before feedings, since the local dust will contain different microbes than
he was exposed to at home. But don't get obsessive about it.
Lay in an adequate stock of your own prescriptions, with a duplicate
supply for the car.
Wear comfortable walking shoes. Break them in at home.
_Do not_ lay him down in tall grass. Ticks are bad.
Decide who you'll let hold, play with, and babysit him  now, while you
have time to think it through.
Just accept that a lot of young adults will talk to your baby and
ignore you. It may be hormonal.
Don't forget to take good care of yourself, and of other family
members.
Don't forget to have fun.
Yours in service-
Honour/Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf, C.O.L.
This may be reprinted _once_ by any local nonprofit SCA newsletter,
provided both my legal and SCA names appear as author.
Other camping event/war names may be substituted where appopriate. No other
editing is permitted without prior consultation, and a copy must be sent to me
at PO Box 56, South Lyndeboro, NH, 03082. All other rights reserved.


From: ercil at astrid.UUCP (Ercil C. Howard-Wroth)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camping with Babies
Date: 19 May 94 02:29:13 PST

In article <CpwEKJ.DrK at world.std.com> kgandek at world.std.com (Kathryn GandekTighe) writes:
>This August we will be taking our 5 month old son to Pennsic.  Having
>been there as adults, we've got that part of the camping down to habit.  
>However, going with a baby obviously involved other considerations!  I'd
>be interested to hear anyone else's handy tips/things that worked for
>you. How did you handle the heat? the sun? the cold? In what did your
>child sleep? Any parental sanity tips?  (Being still at the stage where
>he and I are still getting up in the middle of the night, I never
>underestimate parental sanity tips :-)  
>
>Thanks!
>Catrin o'r Rhyd For
>Kathryn Gandek-Tighe
>kgandek at world.std.com

We have been toting our now 2 yr old around since she was born.  
My first advice (unless you are nursing of course) is to leave your baby
with your parents or other willing relative and take a small break (maybe
only a partial week).  Also read this past TI as the Chiurgeon General had
a word or two for us parents and potentially pregnant people, who go
camping.

If she is reading Mistress AEflead of Duckford (Mrs Gunwaldt on the
net sometimes)  knows lots and lots about kids.  She runs a superb
newsletter called `Thinkwell' and has some supplements on children and
the SCA.  I'd love to hear her ideas too.  

But if you are like us you won't the child at home for whatever reasons.
Sooooo, Take a porta-crib.  It is
one of the best investments we made in terms of baby paraphanalia.
Take a sling.  Don't bother with a stroller, but if you do please
disguise it with cloth draping or more elaborate scheming.  I am a parent
but I hate to see undisguised strollers at events.

Remember that you and your husband are a team and if you don't or can't
work together as one team, your Pennsic vacation will be difficult for you.
Each of you needs time alone and you need time together (if you have
a sister or brother who can watch the youngling for an  hour or two).
This is another reason why you bring the porta-crib.

Bring lots of extra diapers.  Bring infant tylenol, your thermometer,
and infant benedryl.  Many chiurgeons do not carry children's medications
of any kind.  Make sure your first aid kit is child proof either locked
or something you can hang from a tent pole.  Your baby is 5 mo now, but
will be crawling, walking, climbing, exploring, and tasteing very very soon.
Practice is perfect and besides other children may be around your camp site.
The kind that get into those things are the kind that do not know - this
is not their tent-.  Prevention is a good thing.

t-tunics of different fabric are great for warmth.  Onesies are great.  I
sewed a skirt onto one and added trim in the right areas.  My daughter uses
it now for one of her dolls.  I use the long sleeve baby kimonos as an
underdress for the t-tunics.  It helped layer her.  Baby garb is easy and
fun.

Bring two or three sets of extra bedding.  We found that a porta-crib
gets the baby off the ground, but the damp cold can still seep through.
I layered and layered first the baby and then the bedding.  I bought
a kiddy sized sleeping bag and unzipped it.  The layers went like this:

1. mattress, mattress quilt, quilted sheet, 2 baby blankets, sleeping bag

Place baby on top.  (baby is in long johns and blanket jammies w/socks on too)

2. Many blankets.

The idea is to insulate from the bottom as well as the top.  Be sensitive
to the cold and be ready to have the baby sleep with you.  A nurse told
me that a naked baby could be kept sufficiently warm by being next to her
mother's skin.    The above arrangement kept our daughter warm during a
night when it rained/slushed/snowed and was cooooldddd.  She slept through
most of the night totally covered and toasty warm.

Take sunscreen (the kind for babies and children)!  I cannot stand to see
baked babies totally red and later crying.

Pennsic is wierd. It is hot and cold.  It always rains at Pennsic.  

One thing I discovered our last rainy camping event was the new leak
in the tent... right over our daughter's bed... soaked clear through.

I always try to be considerate of who I am camping next to since my daughter
is a herald in training and has awakened many adult people _not_ her
parents at events.  She has even screamed so loudly (about not sleeping
at midnight) that several constables came to check that we had not
abandoned her to an empty tent.  

Incidently, she slept through Rolling Thunder's drumming/dancing contest
at a recent war so the issue is not noise, but you might also consider
this issue when deciding where you want to camp.

Be ready and be able to break camp and get a motel room if necessary.
We did this at the snow event.

Read the other Pennsic threads, but dry blankets, bedding, and clothing,
and quarters for a laundrumat in the car (for the baby).

You may know lots of this already, but I just wanted to assist if I could.

From a fellow parent, who remembers sleepless nights and wishes you a good
time at Pennsic,
    
                                        Astridhr Selr Leifsdottir
                                             E. Howard-Wroth
  
...uunet!astrid!astridhr                          Shire of Heatherwyne
astrid!astridhr at uunet.UU.NET                           Kingdom of Caid
70327.1614 at compuserve.com


From: kohrn at bach.seattleu.edu (David B. Kohrn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies camping out
Date: 26 Aug 1994 09:59:39 -0700
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle, Washington, U.S.A.

Traveling and camping with babies is possible, but yes it does
require extra preperation.  Long before I had kids I noticed
that many SCA kids were miserable because they did not have the
right clothing for the weather.  Many parents skimp on kids' SCA
garb which will only be worn a few times before it is outgrown.
DON'T. Kids need Wool clothing for warmth, and many more
changes of clothing than you. (Watch me jump over that mud puddle. . .)

A few other items which we have found invaluable.
Thermos--fill it with boiling water in the evening and you
will have a source of hot water (or warm if you mix it with coldwater)
all night.  Good for warming bottles, wet wipes, cleaning faces etc.
Toys--SCA (non-offensive) toys which can only be played
with while camping (give the kid something to look forward to)

In general we find the kids like SCA camping (much more time with mommy,
daddy), other kids to play with, once you get there, no car seats, sleep
in the same room as mommy and daddy.
-Calote


From: keaeris at postoffice.adsinc.com ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: 27 Apr 1995 19:41:18 GMT
Organization: Advanced Data Services BBS - 68 lines - 44 Gigs

First M. Lastname (userid at psu.edu) wrote:
: Hello out there...
: I was just reading a post on someone who wants to go to War while
: pregnant.  It reminded me that I need some information on caring for a
: baby at War.  I am almost 9 months pregnant now, and if this baby is on
: time (May 26th or so), it should be approximately 3 months old by the
: time War rolls around.  I am something of a War Virgin (only been there
: last year--for the first time--in fact, that's where I got pregnant!

Being pregnant with a baby due at any moment, I will have a child
the same age.  When we took our daugther to Pennsic 22, we we're there 2
weeks and ordered diaper service and took our pail. It worked well and didn't
vary our home routine too much.  This will not work for you if you intend to
be there less than a full week.
Call Information and ask for Butler Diaper Service.  They are well
familiar with the Pennsic Troll Booth.

: in my finger...).  I am basically worried about infections, sunscreen
: and what sort of bedding the baby should have.  I have heard two
: different views on bedding--off the ground so the dampness won't seep
: into the bedding, and on the ground so the baby doesn't fall out of
: bed.  What do all you experienced mothers say on that???

Our daughter slept in bed with us nd id worked well for us.  We built a
platform out of pallets and put our bed on it.

: Also, if the
: water is warm, can I take the baby to the swimming hole and hold it,
: while staying in the shallow water?  I have read that sunscreen can be
: dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their skin
: to handle sunscreen.  How much clothing for protection is too much?a

Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night.  Be prepared to
take it off when it gets hot.  Try for plainer baby clothes and don't get
hyper about not having garb.  Anybody who gets fussy about "mundane"
baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely ignore--
unless they are willing to make the clothes for you.  A new mother has
little enough time to be dealing with baby let alone trying to make
everything "period".  Get something to replace the diaper bag that
doesn't look like a pastel baby nightmare.

Keep the kid out of the sun and you won't need sunscreen.
: I
: plan on having some type of "period" stroller--a wooden wagon,
: maybe--with a canope.  Will that do?  If someone could please help me
: out, I would be very grateful.  Thank You.  Anyone can either use my
: Email address  at  CMB162 at PSU.EDU, or post on the rialto and hopefully I
: will see it.  In Service, Sabirah bint Jala min Saqqara.a

I used a sling and carried Amber, when Dady didn't have her.

Fursa Hand-seinn


From: macdj at onr.com (Dottie Elliott)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: Mon, 01 May 1995 18:29:51 -0600

I haven't taken a baby to Pennsic (the grandparents just loved taking care
of him while we went to Pennsic when he was 1 and 2. However,I have taken
my son SCA camping many times in the last 2.5 years.  

We use a graco portable playpen as a bed (folds up to a package of about 1
ft x 1 ft x ~3.5 ft).  Its a safe place for baby for many reasons.  I have
also used it outside the tent under our pavilon when he needed a safe area
to play.  We have also taken his swing. A happy baby is worth the
imposition of a modern item or two and its a break from holding the baby
too!

At Pennsic you will need to be prepared for hot and cold weather, wet and
dry. It just depends on whim as to what weather will show up.  I have put
my son in 2 blanket sleepers at times because it was in the low 30's at
night and he doesn't keep covers on usually. He was warmer than we were.  
Ifs it colder than that or he acts cold, we put him in bed with us and
he's always toasty (though I don't kept much sleep).  

As for sun, I wouldn't expose the baby to sun at all.  They are easily
burned and dehydrated at that age and shouldn't be exposed to the sun. Ask
your baby doctor for recommendations. A covered wagon is a good idea as
well as light weight clothing that covers the torso, arms and legs and a
hat that covers the ears as well are important!  

I would recommend nursing instead of messing with bottles if you can.
Managing formula and bottle sterilization is a lot of trouble. If you do
use formula buy distilled water in town for it or use pre-mixed. Newborns
cannot tolerate lowlevels of beasties living in the water that older kids
and adults don't even notice.  If its really hot, give the baby extra
water (you can buy bottle water for babies in little glass bottles that
are very handy - you just add the nipples) or expect to nurse more often.

I don't see why you couldn't take the baby down to the swimhole.  You will
find, however, that baby gets cold much quicker than you will so you
probably won't be able to stay in long.

Good Luck!  
Clarissa


From: IVANOR at delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: 2 May 1995 04:32:23 GMT

Quoting keaeris from a message in rec.org.sca
   > Our daughter slept in bed with us and it worked well for us.  We built a
   > platform out of pallets and put our bed on it.

Of course this can be dangerous, if either of you sleeps restlessly.

   >be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their
   >skin : to handle sunscreen.  How much clothing for protection is too

No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic.
The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen.  Get a PABA-
free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and
mouth.

   > Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night.  Be prepared to
   > take it off when it gets hot.  Try for plainer baby clothes and don't
   >get hyper about not having garb.  Anybody who gets fussy about "mundane"
   > baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely ignore--

Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is painted
knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings....  Diapers aren't period,
but the alternative is no longer acceptable, so go with good sanitation.
A bunting for the chilly nighttime is also a period solution, though people
will have to ignore the zippers in the modern models.

The sling carrier is a good idea, if it is an infant here.

Carolyn Boselli    Host of Custom Forum 35    SCAdians on Delphi
Ive Annor M'Quhairr of Sighty Crag, AoA, Sen. Canton Dragon Forge, EK


From: Margaret Griffith <peggieg at u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 08:24:45 -0700
Organization: University of Washington

On 2 May 1995 IVANOR at delphi.com wrote:

> Quoting keaeris from a message in rec.org.sca
>
>    >be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their
>    >skin : to handle sunscreen.  How much clothing for protection is too
>
> No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic.
> The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen.  Get a PABA-
> free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and
> mouth.
>
Please check this information with your child's pediatrician.  I have
been informed by more than one pediatrician that NO baby under the age of
six months should wear ANY kind of sunscreen.  You really should keep the
child out of the sun and try to keep their temperature moderated at all
times.

Meg Penrose


From: brighid at hern.stonemarche.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: 2 May 95 22:41:33 EST
Organization: Hern the Hunter, Stonemarche (NH)

In article <3o4ckn$55t at news1.delphi.com>, IVANOR at delphi.com writes:
...
>
> No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic.
> The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen.  Get a PABA-
> free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and
> mouth.

Some/most pediatricians will say that babies under 6 months of age should
not have sunscreen or bug spray on them or their clothes. Many children of
this age are teething and so will chew on anything accessible including
clothing with bug spray.
--
Brighid Wood
brighid at hern.stonemarche.org


From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War (Long!!!!!!!!)
Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 18:57:00 -0800

-=> Quoting keaeris at postoffice.adsinc.com to All <=-

ke> First M. Lastname (userid at psu.edu) wrote:
ke> : pregnant.  It reminded me that I need some information on caring for
ke> a : baby at War.  I am almost 9 months pregnant now, and if this baby
ke> is on : time (May 26th or so), it should be approximately 3 months old
<snip>   
ke> 2 weeks and ordered diaper service and took our pail. It worked well
ke> and didn't vary our home routine too much.  This will not work for you
ke> if you intend to  be there less than a full week.
<snip>
        I've been using disposables at tourney for years. The Right Start
catalogue has a nifty little device that wraps them so they don't smell
and can go out in regular trash.

ke> : in my finger...).  I am basically worried about infections,

            Keep baby clean. Take lots of baby wipes and also bathe
her/him, every day, twice or thrice if it's hot. Beyond that, with a
3-month-old you have practically nothing to worry about. (Not like a
3-year-old that will eat *anything*!)

ke> sunscreen : and what sort of bedding the baby should have.  I have
ke> heard two : different views on bedding--off the ground so the dampness
ke> won't seep : into the bedding, and on the ground so the baby doesn't
ke> fall out of : bed.  What do all you experienced mothers say on that???

ke> Our daughter slept in bed with us nd id worked well for us.  We built
ke> a platform out of pallets and put our bed on it.

         We've tried several different things depending on the age of my
youngest at the time (I've six kids, so believe me, I've tried most of the
variations possible!) What I like for a *small* baby (under 4 months) is a
Moses basket, the kind with a hood. Make a complete lining for it so baby
doesn't get scratched by the wicker. The sides keep drafts off baby and
the hood can be turned so that the sun won't shine on him/her. I've had
babies sleep with me (particularly night nursers) and I don't like it,
since all of mine have been more restless when doing this at events.
However, when it's cold we usually have a pile of the smaller kids in our
bed. As they get older we put them in with the older kids. (I have one
teen and a couple just pre-). I also have a folding portacrib, the kind
that's just a top rim, legs and a plastic...um...bed-shaped bag (I dunno
what else to call it!) I ripped off the plastic and used it for a pattern
for a denim version. I also made a ruffle/skirt that goes over the outside
and covers the legs. This can be carted around or used in the pavilion. My
youngest will still be sleeping in it this summer and he's 16 months old,
now. Babies, little ones, will sleep anywhere. If you always carry a baby
quilt (buy a solid dark colour, if possible, or make a cover) you can put
baby *anywhere* and not have him/her in your lap.
ke> :  Also, if the
ke> : water is warm, can I take the baby to the swimming hole and hold it,
ke> : while staying in the shallow water?  

        Babies love to swim, but don't let go! You *can* get
tiny-baby-size lifejackets that will hold a baby's head above water, but
don't depend on one. The same goes for the little inflateable floating
baby seats. Watch kids up to age 3 *every* second they're in the water. This
goes for bathtubs, too. I have a cheap plastic dishpan that goes with us
to all events. I also have a set of cheap plastic floating toys that fit
inside it along with a couple of washed peanut butter buckets and
margarine tubs (for pouring). I also pack washclothes, baby soap and towel
in this pan. Yes, it's mundane, but if it gets hot, it's a great way to
cool baby off, packs better than a regular baby bath and fits babies up to
a couple of years*. Just a couple of inches of water and lots of splashing
is a great way to deal with a hot, tired and fretful baby, not to mention
possible prickly heat or diaper rash problems. This dishpan is still going
to be in use this summer, since it's a good way to cool off (and allow
water play) for even an older child right in your campsite. I keep it in
back of the pavilion near the ice chest and water jug.

>I have read that sunscreen can
ke> be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their
ke> skin : to handle sunscreen.  

        PABA is bad for babies. So are some of the other ingredients. Ask
your pediatrician. There *are* a few sunscreens that are safe, but the
best screen is opaque clothing. Figure on a bonnet or coif. You can make a
bonnet with a rectangle of fabric, about 6"x13". Put a casing across one
long side and gather with a ribbon and tie it tight. Put ties on the other
two corners. Gathers go to the back. Tie it under the chin. (This fits up
to 6 mos., usually. Make 'em larger for later) Babies *never* went capless
in period!
>How much clothing for protection is too
ke> much?

        Put one more layer on the baby than what *you're* wearing. If
you're wearing one tunic (and want to ditch it!) baby should be in a
diaper and t-shirt. (Buy the tie-side shirts. They're period!) If you're
wearing two tunics and a cloak, baby should probably be in a onesie(the
snap-bottom shirts) diaper & booties or socks (first layer) a creeper (the
one-piece lightweight things with feet (2nd layer) a gown or blanket
sleeper and bonnet (3rd layer) and be wrapped in a shawl.

ke> Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night.  Be prepared to
ke> take it off when it gets hot.  

         The key is "layers".

>Try for plainer baby clothes and don't
ke> get hyper about not having garb.  Anybody who gets fussy about
ke> "mundane"  baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely
ke> ignore-- unless they are willing to make the clothes for you.  A new
ke> mother has little enough time to be dealing with baby let alone trying
ke> to make  everything "period".  

         Ack! Buy the knit, solid-colour, drawstring-bottom baby gowns.
Except for the fabric and snaps (which medieval mom would have *killed*
for!) the da** things *are* period. So are the previously mentioned
side-tie shirts! So are bonnets! So are the zip-up pram bags ('cept that
they had toggles or ties)! So are booties! (They are probably the most
period shoes that *any* of us wear!) Get a nurse in hospital (or older
relative) to show you how to swaddle a baby in a recieving blanket and
buy/make several *square* ones in solid colours or stripes. Garb for
babies is *lots* easier than for adults and the other poster is right.
Ignore the A-R types or tick 'em off for me!

         A period garment that doesn't get used much is a mantle. Take a
circle of pretty fabric, as big as you can manage, but at least 6 feet
across. Cut a 4" diameter hole in the center and a slit heading off toward
the edge. (4" ought to be plenty, but this is the baby's head hole, so
check.) I bind the raw edges in double-fold bias tape and put ties at the
neck. A swaddled baby can be slid into this and held in the lap or in your
arms and the spill of fabric is gorgeous. This garment is sortof like a
houppelande with no sleeves.

         If it bothers you (or baby) to have no sleeves, a less extreme
version of this, more like a long t-tunic, also looks really good. T'ain't
period (so far as I know) but it looks good. I've also added a hood with a
point to one and gotten rave reviews, even from A-R costumers.

>Get something to replace the diaper bag
ke> that  doesn't look like a pastel baby nightmare.

        Make a small drawstring sack (or six) and hang 'em off your belt.
Make 'em in different colours (so you can keep 'em straight) and use one
for each category of item, i.e.clean clothes in one, dirty in another,
diapers/wipes/lotion in a third (put a ziploc inside this one), booties
and accessories in another, etc.

ke> Keep the kid out of the sun and you won't need sunscreen.

       Absolutely! (but you won't be able to, completely, so use clothing
to cover up! I wear veils for good reason! They're also great to nurse
under without having folks stare.)
ke> :  I
ke> : plan on having some type of "period" stroller--a wooden wagon,
ke> : maybe--with a canope.  Will that do?  

        Maybe, I'd rather not use one, but if you want to, go ahead. I
mostly don't want the bulk to carry on the trip.

ke> I used a sling and carried Amber, when Dady didn't have her.

        I've also used a sling and prefer them. The period version is a
large square shawl. Fold it on the diagonal. Put the hypotenuse under your
arm with the opposite points hanging down. Tie the acute angles into a
knot on the opposite shoulder. Slide baby in under your arm, legs down.
Pull the bottom points up between baby's legs. If you wrap your arm around
the baby and hold those points in that hand, your other hand is completely
free.

        The other version of this takes help. It's much more like the
mundane version of a baby sling. Take your same shawl. Lay it on the
ground so one point is at your feet and the bias is pointing directly
ahead from you. Take the two side points and pull them into the center of
the shawl so that they touch. Flop everything straight. Then fold the two
parallel folds that this creates toward each other so that they touch.
Um...I'll try a drawing.

    step 1       step 2
      /\           /\
    /    \        |\/|
    |    |        |  |
    | >< |        |  |
    |    |        |  |
    \    /        |/\|
      \/           \/

Lay baby longways along step 2 (along the bias, that is). Now the hard
part! Lean over baby and pick her/him up, as though you'll be holding
him/her diagonally across your chest. Toss the point at the baby's
head-end over your shoulder and the other under the other arm. Have your
helper tie the two ends behind your back. You can squirm into and out of
this, once tied, but... it's easier with help!

       More tourney tips: you and baby *must* drink plenty of liquid,
especially if you're nursing. Take a nap (or at least lie down) when baby
does or you'll be worn out. Bring no-cook or minimal cooking foods or
figure on buying stuff at a food merchant. Put up a clothes line and rinse
baby clothes ASAP. (Use that ubiquitous dishpan and baby soap!) If
somebody offers to hold or mind baby, *let 'em*! Camp with close friends
or other new parents who will understand if baby imitates a fire siren at
4 am.

--Anja--


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: More on Smalls at Pennsic.
From: pendletonsm at hiram.edu
Date: 7 May 95 14:06:13 EST
Organization: Hiram College

Just adding my thoughts of the care of Smalls at War.
Why are you REALLY going to Pennsic?  To expose your kids to the Current
Middle Ages, or to enjoy them yourself.  I have learned the hard way that if
I take my two-year-old daughter to events, I will spend the entire time
chasing her around trying to prevent catastrophes and getting frustrated
because there's no time for me to really pay attention to anything.  I do
take her once in a while anyway so that she'll become used to the atmosphere,
but all Pennsic would mean to me if she were along is entirely too many
cars, blades, fires, and other ways a fast-moving toddler could get hurt.
I'm using up most of my vacation time for the year to go to Pennsic, and I
plan to RELAX.  This doesn't mean I don't adore my baby, of course I do, but
she is not a relaxing human being at this point.  
The solution?  In my case, it's easy-- that's the "two weeks each summer"
that I had put into my ex-husband's visitation schedule when we split up,
with the understanding that as Bronwyn gets older the dates will slowly
shift so that she can attend more and more of Pennsic as she gets better
able to look after herself.  Of course, that's not a option with a nursing
baby, and they're a lot more portable and prone to stay where you put them
than my little whirlwind.  In the future, however, if this is your only
vacation for the year, it might be worth considering that part of Pennsic
would be a TERRIFIC time for little Wulfstan to bond with Grandma and
Grandpa, or some such folk.  Remember-- a happy, relaxed parent is a patient,
flexible parent.

Yours in the Service to the Dream,
Katrin

**"Hic iacet Arturus, Rex Brittani.  Non mortuus est.  Resurget."**


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ojid.wbst845 at xerox.com (Orilee Ireland-Delfs)
Subject: Re: More on Smalls at Pennsic.
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:18:46 GMT

I'd like to second Katrin's comments - my oldest daughter did
not attend Pennsic until she was 6 years old - able to dress and
use the privy herself, feed herself, and make her wishes known.
Plus, we could explain to her why she could or could not do
certain things.  (Her first war was great - the King of
Drachenwald took her to the family swimming hole, she got
to climb the towers of the East Kingdom gate, and she generally
had a great time - and spent lots of her own money shopping).
She is alreaday saving her allowance and planning on what
to wear for this year's War.

Our youngest will probably follow in her sister's footsteps at
six as well (another 3 years).

Camp Grandma is a wonderful place to spend a week plus during the
summer!

Orianna


From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 12:55:00 -0800

-=> Quoting IVANOR to All <=-
> Our daughter slept in bed with us and it worked well for us.  We built a
> platform out of pallets and put our bed on it.

IV> Of course this can be dangerous, if either of you sleeps restlessly.

         Oh, puff! A mom with a tiny baby tends to naturally curl up
around the baby, as though baby was still on the inside. (Hey, she's slept
that way for at least 4 months by that point!) As babies get older, they
squeak if you roll over on them. I know. I've six kids. All of them have
slept with me often at tourneys. All of them have gotten rolled onto and
*believe*me* you roll right back off! They don't get hurt.

         Something that is *more* likely to be dangerous to baby than
rolling over on it, is that most of us tend to use fluffy blankets or
quilts. If baby goes face down in the quilt and can't roll...well...heard
of SIDS? They do that in their own beds, too.

IV> Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is
IV> painted knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings....  

         Have you a specific reference on this one? I can't find one, but
this is something I'd *love* to have, even just a hint!

IV> Diapers aren't period,

         <plain language alert> Uh, did you realize that *disposables* are
pre-historic? Soft skins stuffed with powdered herbivore dung or other
cellulose compounds have been documented in the late stone age. Do you
assume that people who had any choice would let them poop on the floor?
Yes, lots of kids went naked, or mostly so, in the summer, but they can't
in winter. Most of them were tightly swaddled, too. Believe me, most moms
are *not* dumb enough to leave a soggy, poopy baby in an equally, soggy,
poopy swaddle, or at least, not more than once. Think this one through.
(Can you say, "diaper rash, sore bottom, *crabby* baby"?) It's another one
of the fallacies that we accept without thinking over. There are a number
of commentaries, particularly in late period, that talk about "clouts". If
you want, I'll see if I can find the references.  

>A bunting for the chilly nighttime is also a period
IV> solution, though people will have to ignore the zippers in the modern
IV> models.

         They can be made with ties. In fact, the one I wore as a baby was
a tiny hooded jacket that tied under the chin and a...well...I don't know
what to call it but a sleeping bag, no zipper! Recently, I found a hooded
bunting in a thrift store with a busted zipper. I pulled it out, bound the
raw edge and added ties. I want to point out to others reading this that
Ivanor/Carolyn and I are talking about "baby bags" not the kind with
separate legs!

IV> The sling carrier is a good idea, if it is an infant here.

         I think that when this thread started, we were discussing a 2-3
month old baby. I agree with you on the sling, though a baby can be
carried in a shawl or in any of the over-the-shoulder cloaks.

--Anja--


From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care??
Date: 14 May 1995 13:23:29 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

> IV> Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is
> IV> painted knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings....  
>
>         Have you a specific reference on this one? I can't find one, but
>this is something I'd *love* to have, even just a hint!

A good history of knitting should include a couple of BVM knitting
paintings.

However skimming my art books turned up a interesting set of children's
clothes:

Giovanni Bellini  "Madonna and Child" (aka "The Greek Madonna")
currently in the Brera, Milan, has OBS in what looks like a T-shirt
with a short side slit ot the bottom hem. 1565

Jacopo Bellini, "Madonna and Child" 1395,  T-Tunic, round neck with deep
neck placket, decorated with wide gold embroidry; also wearing a *white*
belt. White shirt shows at the neck. Also in the Brera

Bergognone, "Madonna and Child, St. Catherine and the blessed Stefano
Maconi", Brera, 1490, simple golden yellow shirt/tunic?, cloth belt

"Holy Family at Work"  Hours of Catherine of Cleves, long sleeved
long tunic, Note: period baby walker!

(otherwise; the paintings seem to tend toward naked babies being
dandled on silk brocades or velvets---sure indication of pervasive
insanity *or* a steadfast belief in miracles!)

wilelm the parent, also a smith


From: James Duncan Logan <hammer at startext.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: babies and smalls at events
Date: 1 May 1996 17:01:30 GMT
Organization: World Wide Service & Equipment Co. Inc.

Greetings from Jane Sitton-Logan (not James Duncan):

Advice to the expectant parents -- don't forget headgear, especially
straw hats.  

And breastfeeding is the easiest way to feed infants, not to mention most
healthy. You don't have to worry about mixing formula (fresh water),
keeping it from spoiling, or how to heat it over a camp fire.  Plus, you
save $$, which can be used for that new garb....  If you are not
convinced about breastfeeding, please contact your local La Leche League
so they can re-educate you.

Keep toddler girls' skirts short enough that they don't trip when they
walk.

A LARGE basket makes a nice infant bed.

LOTS of baby wipes.

A spray bottle with ice inside makes a wonderful mister for hot younguns.
And grownups, for that matter.

If you're at an event where there is electricity, consider bringing a
small fan if the weather is hot.  It will help kids sleep, especially
since it creates "white noise".

Get toddlers their own folding chairs that they can carry around.  It
will keep them from sitting in other peoples' chairs and getting scolded.

My daughter loves her SCA "purse", a small basket she can carry her
treasures and snacks in.

Anyone have any more tips?

--Madeleine de Lindsay, mother of 4 yr old and 9 week old
mka Jane Sitton-Logan


From: ercil at astrid.upland.ca.us (Ercil C. Howard-Wroth)
Subject: Re: babies and smalls at events
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 3 May 96 01:07:43 PST

James Duncan Logan (hammer at startext.net) wrote:
: Greetings from Jane Sitton-Logan (not James Duncan):
: Advice to the expectant parents -- don't forget headgear, especially
: straw hats.  
:
: And breastfeeding is the easiest way to feed infants, not to mention most
: healthy.  You don't have to worry about mixing formula (fresh water),
: keeping it from spoiling, or how to heat it over a camp fire.  Plus, you
: save $$, which can be used for that new garb....  If you are not
: convinced about breastfeeding, please contact your local La Leche League
: so they can re-educate you.

ditto, nursing is period too (I know - I documented it as a period
practice... heh heh and almost entered mother's milk as a .. period food
in a culinary competition... ;)  

Garb: a tabard w/ ties on sides or tying in back works very well and
is cool in very hot / humid climates.  Do pin tucks in skirts/dresses
of young girls so they can let out hems and you don't have to make
tons of garb.  a naked baby was period (but don't let them run around
a tourney field that way.  Only babes in arms - good if it is an
unbearable hot day.

porta-cribs are great as they can contain slightly mobile children safely.
Cover with sheets or what not to keep them from being visually obtrusive.

bring toys, food, drink, sippy cups,

And I ALWAYS bring a potty.  PortaPrivies
are awful for kids!  This way they can stay where I can see them.  The
germs they have are the ones they bring. No rush runs to the potties.
I bring a spray bottle of lysol and empty the chamberpot myself.

Bring the other parent and take turns!!!

I have lots of ideas - you can email me privately if you want more.
Astridhr


From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: About to be new parents
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:22:31 GMT

XDHQ27A at prodigy.com (Richard Davis) wrote:
>I was interested in knowing if anyone has some useful knowledge or advice
>to new parents on how to survive in the sca with a brand new baby.  Any
>and all help would be greatly appreciated.
>Sean O'Fogarty

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. (3 times)

1. Invest in a portable crib, the sort that packs down to a 1'x1'x3'
space. They are invaluable as playpens during the day, don't take up
too much space in the tent/crash space at night, and can be packed
relatively easily.
2. Invest in a good backpack/carrier. We used one that was basically a
pouch with long straps, and could be used as a front, back, or side
pack. This is great for carrying/cuddling the baby and leaving your
hands free. I've even worn it while serving feasts.
3. Realize that babies don't just take up time, they take up space.
Counting carseat, portable crib, diaper bag, extra diapers, clothes,
etc., your baby will need nearly as much transport space as an adult.
You may need a bigger car (and tent).
4. Remember your priorities. The baby comes before fighting or court
or A&S projects or whatever. Unless you hold the bardic circle outside
your own tent, one of you will have to stay with Junior if the other
one wants to go out and party. On the other hand, if you have the
bardic circle by your tent, the noise will probably keep her awake
(and fussy).
5. You *can* leave the little tyke with Grandma, but don't be
surprised if he shows no interest in the SCA when bigger. Our three
were all going to events within a few weeks of birth, and love it.
6. Some folks use an "SCA babysitter", someone who helps with the kid
in exchange for transportation and site/feast fees. I've never tried
it, so I can't comment, but it sounds like a good idea.
7. Pack *lots* of extra clothes. Kids & dirt are like magnets & iron.
8. If there are other families in your group, see about networking and
trading kid-juggling for a while. On the plus side, you've got extra
eyes and hands if you get overwhelmed. On the minus side, if your
ideas on discipline and behaviour don't match you're going to have
friction.
9. If at all possible, plan ahead with your spouse, and be willing to
make sacrifices. "Well, I really want to do X. If you can watch Small
then, I'll watch her during court so you can go herald."
10. Pack kid-food for lunch and feast. The average 2-year old probably
won't be interested in eels seethed in wine, no matter *how* period it
is. Especially if feast is after court and court is running late. . .
Use things that don't require refrigeration whenever feasible, since
even the best ice chest isn't perfect.
11. Teach your kids basic SCA rules: Don't touch other people's stuff
without asking, knives and fires are dangerous, etc. (We taught our
kids "HOLD" while crossing the street.) Take the time to show them
dangerous situations and explain why they are dangerous. For example,
The site has a river on one boundary. Make time to take the kid(s)
down and let them see it and maybe throw a few rocks in. Explain that
you can't go swimming now because it's too cold, or you don't have
your suits, or swimming time is later when everybody can go. Make sure
they understand that Daddy or Mother has to come with, to go look at
the river again.
12. Set reasonable boundaries for the bigger kids. "Don't go past this
tree, and this tent, and don't cross that road. Otherwise, go play."
Watch toddlers carefully--they're old enough to find trouble, but not
old enough to avoid it. Remember that portable crib/playpen? It's
still useful.
12. Try to have SCA-appropriate toys, but don't be fanatical about it.
Be *very* careful about toy swords; most of them can still hurt if
used with force. Our kids have a rule of "only hit people who are
wearing armor", and we give them the opportunity to take a few shots
at Mother or Daddy when they are in armor.
13. It's never too early to start teaching courtesy. It's much easier
to teach "please" and "thank you" when they are learning to talk, than
to suddenly spring it on them at age 7.

DISCLAIMER: this is based mostly on Ansteorran experiences, where we
generally camp in "primitive" sites (bare ground, maybe trees,
probably fire ants, flush toilets or showers are a luxury). Your
kingdom's customs and conditions may vary.

-Tivar Moondragon
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com


From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: tiny Children in the SCA
Date: 16 Jul 1996 22:18:26 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

Krista Kathryn Long-Shroyer <94002 at ef.gc.maricopa.EDU> wrote:
>Where can I find period sources for childrens products that look or are
>medieval? My son is 2, and I would love to get re-involved, but i think
>that strollers, sippee cups, plastic toys and other standard required
>items for young children are very gauche.

<rip>

sippers: I'm sure I've seen them done up in silver plate for the doting
grandmother to buy - expensive but oh so impressive.

wooden toys: try new-agey stores, educational sources (they tend to go for
the 'pure unfinished wood' type of toy when they aren't plastic) -
Creative Playthings used to have wooden rattles.  Or get to know someone
who does woodworking.  At 2+, rattles should be a good beginning.
Pulltoys can be of knights on horseback.

A fancy cloth covering for the stroller will make it into a (tiny)
gilt carriage or gypsy- or hay-wagon.

Have fun with it!

-- Tamar the Gypsy


From: Morgoth <morgoth at nome.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: tiny Children in the SCA
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:32:15 -0700

Instead of sippers, maybe try a converted wine skin. It has the right
spout, but maybe modified for use by small ones..

Wagons, maybe make a small period wagon (if you have someone who can do
this). Or maybe a small chariot (with back panels to keep the kid in,
maybe some form of straps to... Ever see the old movies when the prisoners
are being lead into the colloseum? That idea maybe? I'm sure you can do
some selective authentic (the ball bearing/axle and such are modern, but
make it look period).

Carrying small children (babies), instead of the carrying thing that looks
like a backpage. Instead get a tartan blanket, put the kid under your coat
and tie the blanket under the kids legs, and around your sholders/upper
chest. Its hard to explain, but its like a papoose, but with out the
board. Or maybe a papoose would look more authentic, I'm sure europe and
other places had compreable items.

Here in Alaska, many of the eskimo woman carry their kids under their
parki (sort of like a parka, with out the inner layer for warmth, they
wear parki's almost everywhere, especially when berry picking).

Morgoth


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: orilee ireland-delfs <orilee_j_ireland-delfs at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: Children in the SCA
Organization: Xerox
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:34:35 GMT

You can also find the silver baby cups that come with plastic lids - while the
plastic lid isn't terribly period, it looks much better than the brighlty
colored plastic cups with lids.  You could even have your device engraived on
the cup!

Cloth dolls dressed in garb (make it match what the child is wearing!); even
the modern dolls dressed in garb are more interesting to play with.

We have a whole set of wooden characters - King Queen Prince Knight Herald,
etc. that my daughters take to play with.  (These we get every year at the
Pennsic War from Claus the toymaker - it's a regular shopping stop for my
daughters).

For older kids, pouches with colored stones to play with.  Period games (fox &
geese, backgammon, etc.)

Mistress Orianna Fridrikskona
mother of Birgitta and Ingridr
AEthelmearc, East


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: sequel to: medieval maternity clothes.
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 11:37:44 EST

Russell Gilman-Hunt <rgh at continue.uoregon.edu> writes:
> Ok, so we're 12 c. Irish.  What would be appropriate wear for say, an,
> 18 day old girl?  how about a 1 year old girl?  Just linen and wool
> tunic-type things, or something specific?  What book would you use to
> document this?  I mean, we may just be doing diapers and tunics; but
> we'd like to be able to say "this is what she should be wearing."
>
> Conchobhar of Kamrun.

        Respected friend:
        At 18 days, swaddling clothes or mama's clothes (depending
on how "citified" her parents are or are not). In cities or with
people heavily influenced by Europe, swaddling clothes held on the
diapers; In rural areas and among the very poor, baby was wrapped
in a fold of Mama's (or Grandma's, at haying time) cloak or veil,
and when she got "that look" on her face, she'd be held away from
her caretaker's body until whatever mess it was hit the ground.
        Unlikely as it seems, it worked- and still works for large
swathes of rural Africa, Asia, Appalachia and Eastern Europe.
        For the first month of life, fake swaddling is actually a good
idea for most babies, as they still sleep better if their limbs can't
flail. Sew criss-cross strips on the front of a sleeveless bag-
sleeper, and use lacing up the back to make it snug.
        At one year, for city/rich, she would still be in swaddling
clothes most of the time; if already "toilet trained" (nothing like
our version at all) and _very_ rich, she'd be wearing simplified
versions of mama's clothes with a plain cap or hood in bad weather
and bare head in good (unless she was sickly, or somehow already
betrothed.) For rural/poor, she'd be naked in warm weather and under
blankets or Mama's cloak in bad - same reason as before.
        It's very hard for us to understand the effect of difficult,
expensive, very time-consuming laundry work on people's child-rearing
options. If it takes a day and a week's wages in soap to wash a week's
worth of diapers (at modern rate of use), people are going to figure
out some way not to do that. Odd, perhaps; but true.

                               Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
                               Una Wicca (That Pict)
                               (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.


From: manth at ozemail.com.au (Aramanth Dawe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Hauling infants around an event
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:08:45 GMT
Organization: OzEmail Ltd - Australia

Joe Hayes <jhayes at compuserve.com> wrote:

>My lady just attended her first event along with our 14 month old son. We soon realized that not having the
>stroller was going to be a problem (ie, carrying him around, chasing after him, putting him down for naps,
>etc). I would appreciate feedback on how others cope with toddlers at events.

>Thanks,
>Ulrich von Landstuhl

I have 2 toddler daughters (28 mo and 13 mo).  One thing that helps
with the 'chasing around' is to use sets of reins. These are most
definately period!  I have a leather set that simply buckles on over
their clothing.  By holding on to the leash they cannot get away from
me, run onto a listfield without warning or be carted off by a
stranger!    It also makes it less likely that they will annoy those
not used to kids by wiping sticky fingers on the $400 silk gown of the
'pretty lady' nearby!

I do also bring along my stroller, together with a large plain cover
(a lightweight cloak is good) which I park in an unobtrusive place and
then cover.  If a nap is needed (mostly the 13 mo one these days) she
can be popped into it without too much fuss, with the cover pulled
back for light and air.  Anyone who makes an objection to such
arrangements (so far there have been none, even at a coronet
investiture) is welcome to take care of them for me!

Aramanth
--
From the Hallowed Portals of House le Mowbus.
Where someone was perceptive enough to name daughters for Goddesses of War,
and silly enough to be surprised when they lived up to it!

manth at ozemail.com.au
Aramanth Dawe,
Adelaide, Australia


From: idavis at ix.netcom.com(Irene Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Hauling infants around an event
Date: 18 May 1997 18:13:07 GMT

>My lady just attended her first event along with our 14 month old son.
>We soon realized that not having the stroller was going to be a problem (ie,
>carrying him around, chasing after him, putting him down for naps,
>etc). I would appreciate feedback on how others cope with toddlers at events.
>
>Ulrich von Landstuhl

Greetings Ulrich! When my kids were little they spent a LOT of time in
a baby carrier. When they were tiny I used a traditional cloth sling,
like the traditional carriers that you see in most third world nations.
As they got bigger we eventually purchased an aluminum framed baby
backpack. It doesn't look very period, but you could cover the
obviously modern parts pretty easily with cloth. The kids get pretty
used to them - just practice several times before you use them at an
event. I used to keep my hair braided - it hurts less when they pull a
braid than when they grab a handful of hair. My kids loved it because
they were right in the middle of things and could see everything that
was going on. Some of the carriers can be taken off and stood on the
ground safely - particularly handy when the kid has fallen asleep and
your back could use some rest. Best of Luck. Kids that age are a
serious challenge!

Eirny Thorvaldsdottir


Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:07:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cindy Morley <cmorley at comp.uark.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Babies at Border Raids

I have an 18 month old little boy, and we have taken him to everything
since he was a newborn.  Some things to remember are that at his age he is
to young to wear sunscrean, so you will need to dress him in something
that covers him from the sun, however you also need to think of the heat.
One thing that I have found that works is those "bag" outfits. They cover
the legs and arms, but can be made out of real light airy fabric.  Even
though he is breast-fed, I would suggest introducing a bottle now for
water. I know that when it was hot Stuart would not want to breast feed
as often, but he needed extra liquid so he wouldn't dehydrate etc... Just
remember shade, loose clothing, extra liquids (for both of you)....
     Another thing we also did when Stuart was tiny that might help you in
future events.  We sang SCA songs to him as lullabyes and now we take him
to a post-revel and he just goes to sleep :)  
     If you have any specific questions about what has worked or not, just
e-mail me and I will see what I can come up with.

Christiaen
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
cmorley at comp.uark.edu  Cindy Morley          Shire-March of the Grimfells
                      Christean Jansen     Kingdom of Calontir
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:10:43 -0500
From: Lark Miller <lucilla at ponyexpress.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Babies at Border Raids

When I had my baby in 1991, she was born the first of May.  Memorial day
Weekend we took her to the Ten year anniversery of Atlantia, a three day
event. Mary was three and a half weeks.  

Keep him in the shade.  
keep him hydrated, (nurse him as often as he wants). You must make sure you
drink plenty of fluids as well because if you get dehydrated then you won't
produce as much milk and he won't get enough fluids.  
Don't dress him in alot of clothes.  I have pictures that were taken of us
and she has on only a diaper. If you are worried he will get over heated,
how do you cool off?  a damp cool cloth, or a fan works great on babies
too. Lay him on a blanket with out anything on (put a open diaper or other
cloth under him in case of calls of nature)

Check with your doctor about sunscreen or bug repellent.  If he says no
just put a misquito netting type of drape over him, tulle for wedding veils
works well.  Check for woodticks if you are in a wooded area daily, in
around the diaper area where they would seek the warmest spots.  My husband
brought the woodticks in so it wasn't that she was exposed but that others
had them and then crawled onto her.

Mary is now six years old.  She still likes to camp and we are all going to
Lillies for the week.  She was joined by a little sister and brother since.
They are three and one now.  


Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:04:29 -0700
From: Charlene Noto <charlenn at MICROSOFT.com>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: Babies in Period

> From: J. Patrick Hughes[SMTP:jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu]
> Are swaddling clothes the only way they handled babies in period???

I'm no expert on children's treatment or children's clothes in period. I
just recently read an interesting book on children's chothing (don't
have it here) that stated that swaddling was extremely common in period
and before. The practise was  supposed to be quite detrimental as it was
based on the idea that the babies legs and arms needed to be straight so
they kept them bound them that way. It also created a parcel that was
easy to manage. You see many portraits with babies bound like that. Look
for little baby parcels with strips wrapped around it. The book I read
also said that the poor may not have swaddled their babies but as they
were put to work rather early in their life, they too had a pretty hard
road. I also don't know how long they subjected their babies to this
before letting them have free movement of their arms and legs or when
they stopped the practise.

-Deirdre


Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:43:36 EDT
From: kathe1 at juno.com (Kathleen M Everitt)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Babies at Border Raids

On Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:07:14 -0500 zaustin at netten.net writes:
>My son will be 6 weeks old as of  Border Raids, and I'd like to go...
>Is this feasable??
>What extra precautions should be taken???
>He's a breast-fed baby, so I can't leave him home with Grandma and
>Grandpa...
>Any advice??
>~Selina Duval de Broome (of Grey Niche)

I took my first son to his first event when he was 1 month old and my
second when he was 11 days old! The first was a Crown Tourney, the second
an indoor feast. It's feasible, with some planning. Take shade! Take lots
of extra cloths - for you and baby. Make sure the baby's garb is washable
cotton! Yours, too. And blankets in case the weather gets cold (I'm not
sure where Border Raids is. This may not be necessary.) Mosquito netting,
if necessary in your area. Take music to sooth him to sleep if necessary.
And take an extra pair of hands. Two or three work better! I had a large
wicker basket with a sun shade on it that I used for taking my boys to
events. And a household that loves kids. I carried containers of diapers
and diaper wipes in the revel chest, and I had a basket with more diaper
wipes, diapers, clothes, etc. packed just for the baby. The hardest part
will be saying no nicely to all the people that want to hold him. I found
that my kids did better if I kept the fuss to a minimum and tried to keep
a routine about feedings, naps, etc. similar to what we did at home. Most
of all, be prepared to leave if he doesn't deal with it well. Some kids
are born Scadians; some need to be introduced slowly.

Good luck.
Julleran


From: morgan <morgan at in-tch.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:57:58 -0600
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Sweeteners

VEARLEY at aol.com wrote:
>(snip)
>
> When I was pregnant, I was told that honey contains a bacteria (? or
> something - it's been a _long_ time!) that the human digestive system can't
> protect against before approximately one year old.  Babies should _not_ be
> given honey or products made with honey until they'e at least a year old.

(snip)

This is correct.  It is botulin toxin whch is the problem.  Once the
child is older, honey is safe, but a baby doesn't have the system
defenses "up and running" for a while.

Cooked items are not a problem - it is the raw honey which is risky.

Morgan of Hawksreach


From: chatziem at usa.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period baby gifts....
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:03:57 -0600

jen_guy at mindspring.com(Jenny Guy) wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:14:03 -0800, Mike Uglow <muglow at ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
> :I am going to a baby shower. And the parents are both scadians, I want
> :to give some approprieate period gifts. I believe the Father has a
> :French persona and the Mother is more Eastern....
> :
> :Any suggestions are appreciated.
> :Sabine d'Armagnac de Bourgogne
>
> Having two boys (ages 5 and 2, and they've both been to every Pennsic
> since they were born),
>
> Don't laugh, my absolute salvation at more than one event has been a
> wide leather strap, about five or six feet long, with a hand loop at
> one end and a D-ring at the other to loop around a busy toddler's
> waist. Yes, it's a leash, and no, it's not cruel. It lets the child
> have some freedom of movement (read: I WANT TO WALK NOW!) and the
> parent feels much more secure (read: I can't believe my kid can run
> that fast!). Right now it's residing tethered to the handle of my two
> year old's stroller so my five year old can hold on with me and not
> steer the baby sideways. The little one is just about ready for the
> "I'm never going to ride in that terrible baby stroller again" stage,
> and the strap will return to it's original purpose.

Sabine,

I must second the recommendation for a tether for the toddlers.  I have a
3yo. SHE (so that all these goode gentles can see that it is NOT just a
"little boy thing") is fast as lightening, her physical strength for
wriggling is outmatched only by her strength of will, and she is so smart.
They figure out how to make you put them down or pick them up at a moment's
notice. And if they want to "look" at something, you will wind up there at
some point during the day, whether you wanted to or not.  It is the nature of
the thing.

A tether is also very period!  Where do you think we get the saying about
"cutting the apron strings"?  Because the tether for the toddler was tied to
the apron ties around the neck or around the back of the mother, and around
the waist of the child.  The point is, the child was securely tethered to the
mother while she did her washing or her "putting by" so the child was "free"
to amuse him/herself and Mom still had a moment to do what needed to be done,
and both were aware of the other's activities/wherabouts at all times.
Please understand, they didn't have playpens (I don't think they did.  I
haven't seen any pictures of any....has anyone else?)  I can't tell you how
many times I have heard about a Mom who had become seperated from her toddler
and was frantic as a bee's nest until the wee one was located.

It is a sickening and frightening feeling when you can't locate your small
child, even for a few minutes, in a crowded area. (Happened to me at the Mall
once, of all places.  Someone tried to walk off with my daughter!)  Even at
an SCA event where you can be reasonably sure that your child wasn't
kidnapped, Mom is likely to be scared out of her wits because you don't know
if the child is ok or hurt or what.

The tether helps both Mom and child enjoy the event more.  Each is secure in
knowing where the other is, and yet each can move about more freely, causing
fewer tantrums and a more relaxed and enjoyable time for all involved.

Another suggested baby gift is a "slinger" for the baby.  This is a large
piece of strong (but soft) cloth that is tied around the mother like a sling
over one shoulder, and the baby rests in the "hammock" of the sling in front
of Mom.  This helps Mom hold newborn close, but her hands are free for
shopping, eating, etc. and baby is all snuggly and feeling secure and close
to Mom.

Let's see.  The bibs that cover the shoulders as well as the chest, decorated
with period pictures.  I have one that was given to me when I was pregnant
with my daughter.  It is terry with an Aida insert in it.  Three shields are
cross stitched on the insert.  One divided per bend or and checky.  One in
thirds per ferrul vert and or  counterchanged, and one  per pale asure and
ermine. It has come in handy for feast many a times.  She looked like she
was wearing a little baby tabbard!  I still have it, and will treasure it as
it was her first gift from a Noble, and her first SCA garb. (sentimental old
fool that I am).  Period baby blankets (that is, baby blankets made from
period-acceptable colors instead of the usual nursery characters)  A stroller
disguise (to make the stroller look more like a period pram or cart)  covers
for the baby bottles.  They certainly did have baby bottles, but they didn't
look anything like what we have now, with all the cute critters and stuff.
They were plain, round, and often heavy.  A cover would help disguise the
deco on the outside.  Make sure that the top of the cover is elastic and fits
around the neck of the bottle.  If you use ribbon or string, there is a
slight chance that the baby may get it in their mouth and maybe choke.  The
elastic will not be accidentally untied by the tyke.

Baby garb.  Simple  bell-bottomed (flared bottom?) long tunic or gown long
enouph to cover the feet and little booties to match the top.  The poor Mom
will not be able to make enouph of these for one weekend event by herself.
They are like baby blankets......can't have too many.  Baby is always messing
with, in, or on something....

If she is nursing, you may consider modifying a tunic or dress pattern to be
easier to nurse from.  I had one that had slits in it that were buttoned
closed and my tabbard covered them.  When I nursed, baby lay in the slinger,
thus consealing her face from lookers on, and my tabbard moved just enough
out of the way to allow for private, discreat nursing without exposing anyone
to any uncomfortable situation, and I was still able to stay in the class or
discussion I was participating in when the dinner bell rang.....if I did it
right, no one was ever the wiser that I was even feeding the baby at that
moment. :-).

I am afraid that is all I can think of right now.  Hope this gives you a few
ideas. At least somewhere to start.

Lady Chatzie Massey
Shire of Arenal, Kingdom of Meridies


From: lclacemker at aol.com (LCLacemker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re: Period baby gifts....
Date: 9 Apr 1998 22:01:04 GMT

In article <6gj9jd$ufc$1 at nnrp1.dejanews.com>, chatziem at usa.net wrote:
>Please understand, they didn't have playpens (I don't think they did.  I
>haven't seen any pictures of any....has anyone else?)

I've never seen play pens, but a friend who went to England told me that in one
place (Shakespeare's home, maybe? Drat my memory...) they had a device called a
child minder.  It was a metal bar with a circle on on end attached to a pole in
the middle of a room.  The kidlet would be put in the loop and the bar would
rotate around the pole providing some freedom of movement.
  
Lara the Lacemaker
AFRDGofL, HPtoGofCI, Wench#314, GSoP.


From: "Susan C. Mitchell" <susancm at primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period baby gifts....
Date: 14 Apr 1998 02:37:00 -0700

LCLacemker <lclacemker at aol.com> wrote:
:chatziem at usa.net wrote:
:>Please understand, they didn't have playpens (I don't think they did.  I
:>haven't seen any pictures of any....has anyone else?)
:I've never seen play pens, but a friend who went to England told me that in one
:place (Shakespeare's home, maybe? Drat my memory...) they had a device called a
:child minder.  It was a metal bar with a circle on on end attached to a pole in
:the middle of a room.  The kidlet would be put in the loop and the bar would
:rotate around the pole providing some freedom of movement.

<non-member delurks and humbly greets the people on the bridge>

A picture of this item can be found in _Yesterday's Children:  The
Antiques and History of Childcare_, by Sally Kevill-Davies.  Most of the
material in this book is post-1600;  but there is *some* earlier material,
including baby minders, cow-horn nursing bottles (and some very depressing
baby-formula recipes), and a small print of a 14th-century "First Steps of
the Virgin Mary" that shows a rather nice three-wheeled baby walker.

<non-member relurks and inconspicuously gets off the bridge>

Susan



From: arialhakon at aol.com (ArialHakon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help w/babies & nursing at pennsic
Date: 16 Jul 1998 21:14:10 GMT

>I am looking for help, suggestions etc., for camping with a 6 month old. Garb?
>Gear? Absolute essentials?  I am a nursing mom, and my family thinks I'm nuts,
>so all help and support will be gratefully accepted.
>
>Ayala

Ah, for those good ol' days...mine is now 9!  My son went to his first event
when he was 6 weeks old, and has been attending ever since.  

First thing I would recommend is one of those portable playpens...the ones that
have a bottom.  Put the playpen in the back of the tent and it is a good place
for Jr. to sleep.  Put a few blankets down for a mattress, and maybe even a
light sheet for a cover over the top (nothing heavier, you want it to breathe
but keep insects out).  I found one of these to be invaluable, especially since
it provided not only a resting place but also a play place for mundane toys,
and it confined them enough that I didn't have sudden surprizes as to where Jr.
was at!  My son used this happily until he was about 3 years old and destroyed
it in a game of tag (we have a Norse Tent, open at both ends, and he would race
in, jump on our futon bed, jump over the edge of the playpen and land on the
soft layers of quilt...apparently the prefered way to reach "base").

Second essential I found was a kid leash (although yours might not be very
mobile yet, you might consider it).  Even if the kid is crawling, having a
leash is great if you want to set Jr. down but don't want him wandering off the
tarp and eating the goose leavings (yes, this really happened to me, even
though I WAS watching him closely....Mom has to deal with the diaper sometime).
Make sure the leash is one of those harness types rather than attached to the
wrist. Personally I felt that the German Liederhosen must have been invented
by a harried mom just for this purpose.

Personally, though I have seen them used, I never used the adjustable pet pens
that I have seen many people use to put their kids in.  Yes, some do look like
a wickerwork fence, and they do allow a larger play area combined with
confinement from wandering away, but I have seen too many people pen their
toddlers up and then rarely check on the kid.  Meanwhile the shade moves and
the kid gets a really rotten case of sunburn.  

The shoulder slings and belly packs are nice to have, and help you keep your
hands free, but can be difficult if your kid is always trying to "bail out"
(mine did).  You might try it.  The packs you will have to buy commercial or
try sewing one on your own.  The slings you can buy commercial, or just get a
VERY strong material (I used upoholstery material or a wool blanket) and use a
very strong pin (like a penanular broach).  When using the sling, switch sides
periodically to ease shoulder ache.  

Third, and very important, is get some help.  Your lord may not be much of
help, expecially if he is a fighter and wants to fight all day.  This leaves
you either stuck in the encampment or forced to take Jr. everywhere you go (and
no matter what you do, little hands love to grab stuff at merchants and can be
a real pain for Constabling).  For that problem I have two suggestions. One is
camp with someone else who has a little one, and trade off watching the kid.
Second, consider "hiring" someone....no, I don't mean keep the little one home!
It is amazing how many people out there are willing to trade watching a little
one for 2-4 hours a day in exchange for transportation and site fee.  In this
case make sure the duties of your would-be sitter are clearly spelled out
before the event, and proper behavior (not just proper behavior with the kid)
is carefully spelled out and agreed upon.  

Diapers...I used disposables.  Cloth diapers may be good for the kid, but the
mess of dumping a load and rinsing the diaper out is difficult at an event
where flush privies are not available (not to mention the possible health
hazard). Lugging the soiled cloth home can be difficult, if not gross.
Disposables make this so much easier.  Potty training at an event can be done,
although it takes quite a bit of planning.  You need a tent in which you have a
little room.  You need a potty chair which you can put in a corner of your
tent, which will not get tipped over while you help your little one re-dress.
Take a liter or gallon bottle with you and empty the potty remains in the
nearest porta-priv (use the water from the bottle to wash out any problems).

If you want a more period answer to teething pain than something that comes in
a tube, I recommend making your own clove oil.  Stuff as many cloves as you can
into a small jar, and fill it with vegetable oil (or olive oil, if you can
afford it) to the top of the cloves.  Let it set for at least a week, realizing
the longer you let it set, the stronger the cloves will be.  It is the cloves
which give the oil an anesthetic property.  It worked great for my kid, and he
even likes the taste of cloves now.  

Next, garb.  Garbing yourself can be easy.  A tabard over a drawstring neckline
isn't too bad....even a shawl will work if the kid doesn't object to something
covering.   The best nursing gown I saw was a Gates of Hell which allowed the
whole kid to be put inside, and the Cotardie had slits in which she could gain
access for nursing.  I've seen wenches gowns and shawls used (my favorite),
t-tunics with rather deep "t" cuts and fuller space allowed to shift the tunic
one way or another (I never got this one to work), shirts combined with skirts
rather than full dresses....be inventive.  As for fabrics, stick to the ones
easily washable.  Satins and Velvets are nice, but don't look good after being
spit up upon for the 3rd time.  

For kid, there is a wide variety of help.  Primarily I would recommend the
layered look, unless your kid is really into changing clothes frequently. The
first layer, closest to the skin, should be made out of sheets or broadcloth
and be fairly cool for warm weather.  I'd have it have long sleaves, which will
help keep the sun of and keep the kid from getting sunstroke.  Second layer can
be made out of a sturdier material, and have shorter sleaves.  For really cold
times, add a fourth layer, this one with long sleaves again, made out of heavy
flannel or Upholstery material, and generously cut for the underlying layers
(you wouldn't want the kid's armpits to get in a bind).  One trick I found to
be both practical and helpful in avoiding tantrums....favorite blankies (baby
size) can be folded in half, wrapped under one shoulder and pinned at the
other, and make excellent blanket cloaks for particularly cold nights. Don't
have them wear it during the day, because they will get it too dirty....just at
night around the campsite.  MOST IMPORTANT:   MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS
WASHABLE! Kids automatically gravitate to any muddy, messy place anywhere in
reach, and more than once I have just barely clothed my kid and had him come
back caked in mud.  Sweatpants make warm and acceptable trews, and hose is so
easy to get your hands on...although if you have a boy, try to get something
other than pastel colored ones.  For something easy to make and warm to use,
take an adult skiing sweater (one without a mundane design), and make the
sleaves short enough that your little one won't have his hands covered.  I used
an old sweater I had that the shoulders were starting to wear and run. I used
the extra to make some matching trews.  Making clothes is easy, and uses up a
lot of scrap material that you would otherwise have to make into pouches or
something. Even though it may not be period, however, I would use elastic
rather than draw strings.  Elastic wastebands allow the kid to go to the priv
without mom, and are essential during potty training.  Elastic  around the leg
bottoms and wrists help keep out insects (such as ticks) and keep the material
under control while roasting marshmallows (for those all important evening
delights...Smores!). Ties only get untied and in the way.  Nice thing about
kid's garb is that you can experiment without spending a lot of money or
effort....if it doesn't work out, you have only wasted a yard or two.  A
caution though...don't try to put the kid in something complex (such as hoops,
corsets, slash-and-puff) unless they are too small to complain...otherwise
getting them to wear garb can be a struggle of wills. Get the kid used to
wearing some kind of cap at night.  Since most of the heat is lost through the
head, wearing a knitted cap or even a coif will help keep the kid warm.    

Toys...toys can be both a parent's savior and biggest pain. Getting a
determined mundane kid to take an interest in his more period...or period
looking...toys at events is a lesson in frustration.  I have heard of parents
who set aside period toys to only play with at events, but this only works if
the kid is interested in the toys in the first place.  I tried the technique of
only allowing wooden toys (wooden cars, wooden planes, etc.), but it worked
only marginally.  I finally gave up and just tried to have him play with his
toys in the privacy of our own encampment.  As they grow older, this becomes
easier and easier to control, and you find "acceptable" things for them to play
with (like nerf bows).  If you bring games for them to play, make sure the
peices are easy to replace, and be prepared to replace parts every event. Be
careful with books too, because even hardback covers can get ripped off when
trampled by little feet (mine never seemed to get put away).  Have a separate
box for kid's entertainments, and do your best to have him pick up and put away
before evening dinner (otherwise the stuff gets lost in the night or gets
destroyed by dew).  After dinner is an excellent time for helping clear the
dishes, a story around the fireplace, smores, stargazing, and maybe even a
stroll around the campground with Papa.  Older kids can even do dishes,
although if they tend to get wet you might want them to do them around lunch
time (and even 3 year olds can help rinse the dishes, although they sometimes
get sidetracked into waterplay....handy at those particularly hot events).

Bathing...let's face it, kids get dirty.  An inflatable pool makes a great
emergency bathtub and doesn't take up much room in the packing, although be
sure to have some cold water in it before pouring in any hot water from the
stove (melting plastic is messy).  Try to pick a kid's shampoo or liquid soap
that is environmentally friendly, because there will be sloshes (and don't do
this in a tent, unless you can pull a tarp back and reach bare ground...and the
ground drains well).  A cup or bowl helps wet those areas that stick out of the
water, and the kids love to pour the water back and forth.  Use dark colored
towels, so you don't get so concerned if they get a little stained.  We have a
separate sunshade in which we put up sheets we have made into curtains that we
can convert into a place to bath in privacy.

Well, I am sure there ae a few things I forgot, but feel free to e-mail me with
any questions you might have.  Don't be afraid of approaching other mothers at
events either...most of us will talk your ear off about our experiences.  

Good Luck, and don't forget to sunscreen EVERYWHERE (even the tyke's hair and
diaper area...you never know when they decide to become nudists!)

Yours in service,
Arial Haakonarstedir
(who's kid would have been born at Crown, but went into early labor...and has
been attending events ever since).        


From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Strollers at Pennsic
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:50:37 -0400
Organization: Help Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 17-Aug-98 Re: Strollers at Pennsic by
Dan Smith at blaze.apsc.com
> >Not quite a stroller, but:
> >There is a (15th ct manuscript?) painting of Mary weaving on a bandloom;
> >in the room with her, a baby is in a walker.  It doesn't have a seat,
> >IIRC, but it is a little square wooden framework of round dowels, with 4
> >wheels on the bottom of the uprights, and the top is where the baby can
> >grasp it.
> >
> >Tamar
> Thanks for the input.  

I believe this is the Hours of Catherine of Cleves -- of which there is
an excellent publication, possibly available at your local library.

toodles, margaret


Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:37:28 EST
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Babies and diapers

stefan at texas.net writes:
<< I think I remember the comment. And I've got the book around here,
somewhere.
The problem is locating it. The book was wonderful and by using various odd
records such as court records filled in many questions on childhood and later
stages in medieval life, especially the life of peasants. I remember it's
comments disproving the ideas of extended families. Most of the info was
drawn from records in England in a single century or two. >>

I know Barbara Hanawalt's book The Ties That Bound has a lot of this sort of
information in it.  She works off of the coroner's rolls (in England during
most of the Middle Ages, any accidental death had to be investigated to
determine the circumstances, and there were coroners appointed for each shire
who had the responsibility to do this).  In some cases the information is
surprisingly complete - who found the body first, any information that might
help determine the cause, eyewitness reports, etc.  It's quite fascinating.
Babies frequently died as a result of cradle fires, as a result of chickens
scratching/dropping coals into the cradle which was situated next to the
hearth for warmth.  They also died when they were accidentally dropped into
the fire (often by drunken mothers), when spits broke and dumped pots of
scalding liquids on them, and when pigs came into the house and mauled the
baby.

She doesn't just focus on babies.  She looks at causes of accidental death of
all ages over the course of the year and the course of the day, as well as the
occupations or jobs that were being done at the time of death.  There's an
amazing amount of info here, in little snapshots, about peasant life.  For
instance - women frequently used straw to get the coals into a good fire in
the morning.  Some of them fell off the ladders they had placed against the
haystack to climb to the top to get straw to start the fire, and that's how
we know that they used straw.

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:24:14 -0800
From: roscelin at ibm.net
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Babies and diapers

> I know Barbara Hanawalt's book The Ties That Bound has a lot of this sort of
> information in it.

For those looking for it, the bibliographic information is:

Barbara A. Hanawalt
The Ties That Bound:  Peasant Families in Medieval England
New York:  Oxford University Press.
ISBN 0-19-503649-2
ISBN 0-19-504564-5

The blurb on the back list by the same author:

Crime and Conflict in English Communities, 1300-1348
(ed) Women and Work in Preindustrial Europe

Donna Franke
SCA: Helen Rose Winfield


Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:36:24 -0400
From: Mary_HallSheahan at ademco.com
Subject: Re: SC - "Chocolate in a Period Form"

OKeydokey offtopic we go.  Regarding <<baby strollers at events>>

I hate to reveal ideas for projects I haven't begun, but I'll probably
never be a good enough woodworker to do this anyway so maybe it'll get done
by another...

NYC's Morgan Library has an illumination refered to as "The Holy Family at
Work". Shows Mary at her loom, Joseph at a turned-down-window planing some
wood, and the baby Jesus toddling around in a baby walker.  Two wagon
wheels, some supports, a leather sling for His Babiness, and small wheels
at the bottom.  This is on a postcard, only wish I could find it again.

Let me know if anyone sees this done,
Emme


From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies & Children in the SCA
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:36:44 GMT

An orbiting mind control laser caused mayfair13a at aol.com (Mayfair13a)
to write:
>My Husband & I are busy prepairing for next years camping season w/a new baby.
>Could we please have some advice.  Also interested in what folks have made for
>their babies, strollers, garb, etc.  Help!!

Probably the two most useful baby items I've had over the years were a
*very* adaptable back/tummy pack for carrying the baby and a clip-on
bottle holder that I could hang off my belt.

The backpack allowed me to have the baby right there, but still
allowed me to do things like serve feasts or chop wood. The bottle
holder meant the bottle was immediately available when it was needed,
but left my hands free when it wasn't needed.

        -Tivar Moondragon
               Ansteorra

C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com


From: Rayne/Richard <PRIDEelectric at centuryinter.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Babies & Children in the SCA
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:55:48 -0500

Sorry, but got to put my 2 sense worth in on a comment below:

Michael Z. Williamson wrote:
> Diaper wipes: Even adults should have them for cleaning hands, etc. Can't
> have too many.

My sister (the Microboilogist) did product testing for years and something she always said was:  Diaper wipes are for baby's bottoms: NOT FOR HANDS, FACES, ETC.  The FDA requirements for Facial wipes are different.  The level of sanitation for diaper wipes is much lower than for faces and hands which can go into the mouth.  On one diaper wipe brand (a name brand) she found traces of rat feces.  It still passed as the diaper wipe was meant to wipe bottoms and only bottoms. No chance of human consumption - UNLESS someone used it to wipe faces and hands and the baby then sucked their fingers.  Read the labels.
OFF the soapbox.  :-)

Rayne


From: Andrea Hicks <maridonna at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Infant walker illustration
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:04:57 GMT

While searching for another subject in _The Hours of Catherine of Cleve_
intro and commentaries by John Plummer, Geo. Braziller, Inc. N.Y.,
publisher, I found a baby walker.  It is in "Satruday Hours of the
Virgin - Sext, plate 92. _Holy Family at Work_.
It shows the Baby walking around in a very simple wooden walker. More
like a frame with wheels.

In plate 11., _The Visitation_ it shows infant John the Baptist
partially surrounded by a
three sided woven or wicker wall. Possibly a playpen?  There are no
comments on it by Plummer.
--
Lady Maridonna Benvenuti


From: "JoAnn Abbott" <josco at theriver.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Infant walker illustration
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:23:46 -0700

There is an iron baby walker in the house in which Shakespeare was allegedly
born. It is attached to a center pole in the (tiny) kitchen with a straight
bar and that child can only walk in circles around the pole.  You can tell
it was used a lot- there is a marked groove in the flagstone floor where the
little ones must have walked.
     Sort of reminds me of the beginning of Conan the barbarian, where he is
a kid pushing around a mill stone....

JoAnna S.T.


From: Andrea Hicks <maridonna at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Infant walker illustration
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:42:57 GMT

Hasoferet wrote:
> >While searching for another subject in _The Hours of Catherine of >Cleve_
> >intro and commentaries by John Plummer, Geo. Braziller, Inc. N.Y.,
> >publisher, I found a baby walker.  It is in "Satruday Hours of the
> >Virgin - Sext, plate 92. _Holy Family at Work_.
> >It shows the Baby walking around in a very simple wooden walker. More
> >like a frame with wheels.
>
> When's the manuscript from?
>
> Raquel

The exact date is unknown but the researcher are sure between 1428 - 1445.
--
Maridonna Benvenuti


From: noramunro at aol.comclutter (Alianora Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Infant walker illustration
Date: 03 Feb 2000 19:12:58 GMT

There's also a baby walker depicted on a majolica plate, from an Italian "birth
set" of c. 1540, in the St Mungo Museum of Religious Life and Art in Glasgow,
Scotland. It looks like sort of a cubical framework made from dowels, and
perhaps on casters rather than wheels (or at least the dinkiest wee wheels
imaginable). The St Mungo Museum is in the cathedral precinct in Glasgow, just
across the square from the cathedral, and they have the most amazing collection
of odds and ends of stuff.  Worth a look if you ever find yourself in Glasgow.
;-)

Regards,
Alianora Munro, Bright Hills, Atlantia


From: Gerry Adams <savaskan at sd.znet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Infant walker illustration
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:25:34 -0800

Andrea Hicks wrote:
> While searching for another subject in _The Hours of Catherine of Cleve_
> intro and commentaries by John Plummer, Geo. Braziller, Inc. N.Y.,
> publisher, I found a baby walker.  It is in "Satruday Hours of the
> Virgin - Sext, plate 92. _Holy Family at Work_.
> It shows the Baby walking around in a very simple wooden walker. More
> like a frame with wheels.
>
> In plate 11., _The Visitation_ it shows infant John the Baptist
> partially surrounded by a
> three sided woven or wicker wall. Possibly a playpen?  There are no
> comments on it by Plummer.
> --
> Lady Maridonna Benvenuti

There are several  of the centerseat walkers shown in German 16th c
woodcuts. In "Yesterday's Children, The Antiques and History of Childcare"
by Sally Kevill-Davies,  it shows a late 14th c walker from an embroidered
panel called First Steps of the Virgin. The walker is a three wheeled push
walker. The book also shows some high chairs and mentions that in 1473,
Bartholomew Mettlinger wrote "A Regimen for Young Children". He recommended
that parents construct a little pen of leather. The book states various
other wooden contraptions were used from an early date.

There is also a little potty shown in Breugel's Children's Games.

Juliana, OL Caid


From: Chris Zakes <moondrgn at earthlink.net>
Date: April 27, 2006 7:15:22 AM CDT
To: moiranliam at earthlink.net, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."
<ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] A subject change...

> Two kids under the age of 2 makes eventing.. tricky for me and Liam. So,
> keeping in mind I can NOT be the first woman to bring smalls to an event, I
> seek the wisdom of those who have pulled this off  (eventing with babies).
> They're too small for children's activities, our closest family is in
> Biloxi, and it's not like we can leave them at home like cats where they
> get a big bowl of food and a warning about keggers.  Hints, tips, tricks?
>
> Moira Lindsay

This is taken from my answer to a similar question on the Rialto some  
years ago...

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. (3 times)

1. Invest in a portable crib. They are invaluable as playpens during  
the day, don't take up too much space in the tent/crash space at  
night, and can be packed relatively easily.

2. Invest in a good backpack/carrier. We used one that was basically  
a pouch with long straps, and could be used as a front, back, or side
pack. This is great for carrying/cuddling the baby and leaving your  
hands free. I've worn it while serving feasts, doing site preperation  
(including cutting down a small tree with an axe one time--baby  
Robert thought that was great fun) attending classes and meetings, etc.

3. Realize that babies don't just take up time, they take up space.  
Counting carseat, portable crib, diaper bag, extra diapers, clothes,  
etc., your baby will need nearly as much transport space as an adult.  
You may need a bigger car (and tent).

4. Remember your priorities. The baby comes before fighting or court  
or A&S projects or whatever. Unless you hold the bardic circle outside
your own tent, one of you will have to stay with Junior if the other  
one wants to go out and party. On the other hand, if you have the  
bardic circle by your tent, the noise will probably keep her awake  
(and fussy).
There may be times when the only reasonable thing to do is to take  
your family home, rather than try to endure the heat/cold/rain or  
whatever surprises the Ansteorran weather has in store that weekend.

5. You *could* leave the little tyke with Grandma, but don't be  
surprised if he shows no interest in the SCA when bigger. Our three  
were all going to events within a few weeks of birth, and loved it.

6. Some folks use an "SCA babysitter", someone who helps with the kid  
in exchange for transportation and site/feast fees. I've never tried
it, so I can't comment, but it sounds like a good idea.

7. Pack *lots* of extra clothes. kids & dirt are like magnets & iron.

8. If there are other families in your group, see about networking  
and trading kid-juggling for a while. On the plus side, you've got  
extra eyes and hands if you get overwhelmed. On the minus side, if  
your ideas on discipline and behaviour don't match, you're going to  
have friction.

9. If at all possible, plan ahead with your spouse, and be willing to  
make sacrifices. "Well, I really want to do X. If you can watch Small
then, I'll watch her during court so you can go herald."

10. Pack kid-food for lunch and feast. The average 2-year old  
probably won't be interested in eels seethed in wine, no matter *how*  
period it
is. Especially if feast is after court and court is running late. . .  
Use things that don't require refrigeration whenever feasible, since  
even the best ice chest isn't perfect.

11. Teach your kids basic SCA rules: Don't touch other people's stuff  
without asking, knives and fires are dangerous, etc. (We taught our
kids"HOLD" while crossing the street.) Take the time to show them  
dangerous situations and explain why they are dangerous. For example,
The site has a river on one boundary. Make time to take the kid(s)  
down and let them see it and maybe throw a few rocks in. Explain that
you can't go swimming now because it's too cold, or you don't have  
your suits, or swimming time is later when everybody can go. Make sure
they understand that Daddy or Mother has to come with, to go look at  
the river again. (My youngest daughter is reading over my shoulder  
and comments "I remember that.")

12. Set reasonable boundaries for the bigger kids. "Don't go past  
this tree, and this tent, and don't cross that road. Stay off the  
list field, of course, otherwise, have fun." Watch toddlers  
carefully--they're old enough to find trouble, but not old enough to  
avoid it. Remember that portable crib/playpen? It's still useful.

12. Try to have SCA-appropriate toys, but don't be fanatical about  
it. Be *very* careful about toy swords; most of them can still hurt if
used with force. Our kids have a rule of "only hit people who are  
wearing armor", and we give them the opportunity to take a few shots
at Mother or Daddy when they are in armor.

13. It's never too early to start teaching courtesy. It's much easier  
to teach "please" and "thank you" when they are learning to talk, than
to suddenly spring it on them at age 7.

         -Tivar Moondragon


From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
Date: April 27, 2006 9:48:19 AM CDT
To: moiranliam at earthlink.net, "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'"  
<ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] RE: ... and a subject change...

Small children in the SCA! What fun.  I haven't done TWO children under the
age of two, and I can imagine that it would be a bigger-than-normal handful.
Still, what works for me with an almost-2 and a 6 year old:

I echo bringing along a portable playpen/crib thingy, at least while they're
not walking yet. Very nice to be able to set down a child and not have to
worry about them crawling through the dirt and stickers! We used one while
camping, and occasionally when day-tripping.

Otherwise, we use a giant wooden wagon most heavily. Early on we invested in
the Radio Flyer ATW wagon, wood sides and a weight limit of 250lbs. When
it's not hauling our stuff, it's hauling kids, or serving as a bed for the
youngest for naptime or at night. I even change diapers on it. It's padded
with a quilted sleep mat that rolls up for storage. The oldest has finally
outgrown it (just in time for the youngest to switch to it, which we're
working on...)  It was expensive, but probably the best baby-gear  
purchase we've ever made. Plus, it's a toy!

Having the regular help of friends is a must-have. You can only do so much
switching off between parents, especially if you have more than one child
that needs to be supervised.

Bathroom breaks -- shudder.  I regularly scout out sites to figure out the
best facilities to use, PARTICULARLY when toilet training or with newly
toilet-trained kids.  For camping, we actually have our own portable toilet
seat with "pack-it-in/pack-it-out" drychem bags that backpackers use.  For
primitive sites, that or a handicapped port-a-potty are your best bets;
never try to take a small child into a regular-sized port-a-potty.

Always bring lots of munchies and such that won't go bad.  My kids will
largely eat anything, and frequently mooch off of anyone around them (sigh),
but some children are far more picky. I'm way more picky during feast than
my kids are! A long feast typically won't hold their attention span either,
so be prepared to either not do feast, or get up a lot, or leave early.

When my oldest was 2 or so, she abruptly stopped wanting to drink from her
sippy cup at events. She kept grabbing at my mug. Took me a while to figure
out that she wanted her own mug! I managed to find a small child-sized
pottery mug with a nice handle, and she toddled around with that thing full
of water for the next several years until it met an untimely end on a
concrete floor. We're now on mug #2, and I can always be sure that she's
drinking plenty of water because she hardly sets it down.  Kid #2 figured
out at Crown Tourney that her sippy cup fits perfectly inside dad's metal
tankard, and stole it, leaving him with no cup!  What the heck, a tankard
with a sippy lid still looks better than a bright orange plastic  
sippy cup. :)

As soon as the oldest kid can walk, get them their own little camp chair.
You can usually find cheap folding camp chairs to mimic the larger ones at
Walmart or Target. The most "just like mom & dad" stuff, the better.

Camping at events can be a chore during setup and take down, and is when a
portable playpen comes in most handy, unless you have lots of extra hands. I
am still tied to the tent at night (kids won't fall asleep without mom
nearby), and so the most going out I get to do is to sit right outside the
door. In case of the occasional screaming fit, we don't like to camp right
in the middle of things, so this means I've forfeited most of my nighttime
socializing. Bummer, but eh. Some things you gotta give up.

No matter how late at night, I don't give up court, however. Neither kid
wants to sleep as long as there's still stuff going on, so at worst I have
to stand up in the back of court trying to get the youngest cranky one to
settle down. (A crying kid in the front of court is never a good thing.)

At one point we started hauling along a wooden box of SCA-only toys; we've
gotten out of the habit, but now with the youngest hitting 2 next month I
think it's about time to redo the box.  It always had paper or coloring
books, crayons, one or two small stuffed animals or a cloth doll, and a few
other odds and ends like that. Nothing that you will care if it gets
accidentally lost or destroyed, but likewise nothing that is bright  
plastic and makes electronic beeping noises.

The HARDEST thing I've ever had to deal with was bottle-feeding.
(Breast-feeding is sooooo much more portable!) I always brought my own
bottled water, liners, and powdered formula, and just reused the same bottle
and nipple over and over (being sure to rinse it out good). Ugh. Luckily
both my kids took room-temp water, so I never had to figure out how  
to warm a bottle or keep one cold or anything like that.

At bare minimum, when daytripping, we always bring the wagon, a few bottles
of water (easier than bugging the waterbearers), animal crackers, mugs, and
the must-have blankies. (And garb, of course.)  OH and spare diapers. Stash
some in the car just in case!

-Emma


From: Chris Zakes <moondrgn at earthlink.net>
Date: April 27, 2006 8:15:17 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] RE: ... and a subject change...

> Otherwise, we use a giant wooden wagon most heavily. Early on we invested in
> the Radio Flyer ATW wagon, wood sides and a weight limit of 250lbs. When
> it's not hauling our stuff, it's hauling kids, or serving as a bed for the
> youngest for naptime or at night. I even change diapers on it. It's padded
> with a quilted sleep mat that rolls up for storage. The oldest has finally
> outgrown it (just in time for the youngest to switch to it, which we're
> working on...)  It was expensive, but probably the best baby-gear  
> purchase we've ever made. Plus, it's a toy!

I'll second that. Particularly for big events like Pennsic or Gulf  
War, a wagon is *very* useful. We used ours to haul kids, ice,  
fighting gear, ice chests, etc. Done carefully, you can perch a kid  
on top of (for example) an ice chest with other gear packed around  
it--they get a fun ride, you get everything there in one trip.

(more snippage)

> The HARDEST thing I've ever had to deal with was bottle-feeding.
> (Breast-feeding is sooooo much more portable!) I always brought my own
> bottled water, liners, and powdered formula, and just reused the same bottle
> and nipple over and over (being sure to rinse it out good). Ugh. Luckily
> both my kids took room-temp water, so I never had to figure out how  
> to warm a bottle or keep one cold or anything like that.

About a month after our oldest was born, I made a leather bottle  
carrier with a snap-hook--one of the best ideas I've ever had. That  
way the bottle can be mounted on a belt or clipped to the diaper bag;  
it's right there when you need it, but out of the way when you don't.

         -Tivar Moondragon


From: "Elisabeth B. Zakes" <kitharis at gmail.com>
Date: April 27, 2006 6:26:06 AM CDT
To: moiranliam at earthlink.net, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."
<ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] a subject change...

> Two kids under the age of 2 makes eventing.. tricky for me and Liam. So,
> keeping in mind I can NOT be the first woman to bring smalls to an event, I
> seek the wisdom of those who have pulled this off  (eventing with babies).
> They're too small for children's activities, our closest family is in
> Biloxi, and it's not like we can leave them at home like cats where they
> get a big bowl of food and a warning about keggers.  Hints, tips, tricks?
>
> Moira Lindsay

The way Tivar and I worked it is that all of us went to the event, and
we traded around who had the "kid duty" for the day (or for the half
day). If there was an event I really wanted to fight at, he would set
up by the side of the list field with all the support equipment for
whichever child it was at the time, manage the baby, and cheer me on.
I did the same for him. If there was a meeting we both needed to go to
and the child was small enough, we took her with us, and if the child
got restless, whoever had the duty would excuse herself and leave.
(Sometimes the baby would get passed around the meeting. <G>) We would
look at the events coming up and split the duty as evenly as we could
so that neither of us felt we were always on duty.

All our children were attending events from day 3 of life. Just make
sure you plan ahead for anything, and bring along the half-ton of
stuff needed (a baby instantly doubles the amount of stuff you need to
take to an event). Portable cribs, plenty of cooling space for foods
and milk, etc. Plastic bags and ziplocks. Look at what you need at
home, and duplicate it for events. There's a lot of "camping" versions
of just about everything, just look for it. If you can't duplicate
(space, money, etc.), then try to get camping or mobile versions in
the first place and just take everything with you that way.

But it can be done, and can be done without grief. Why leave them at
home? They'll grow up in a unique environment, and learn a whole lot
without even realising it. Heck, they may even pitch in and help when
they're old enough to walk and talk!

You know you're in the SCA when you teach your daughter to peel
potatoes by telling her, "You hold the potato like a crossbow and ..."
:)

Aethelyan Moondragon
Bryn Gwlad


From: Jennifer Dudley <jen at clancircle.com>
Date: July 10, 2007 11:02:17 AM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] OT?: SCA baby

For the first few years of my daughter's life, she and I would go to events
alone. I made sure that I had friends to share a pavilion with so that I
didn't have to cart that around.  I didn't travel as much and usually went
to local events and didn't camp with her until she was 3 and I was sure she
would sleep thru the night and wouldn't disturb other campers.  If I knew I
was working at that event, she either helped me or I had a friend watch her,
or she stayed home with daddy who didn't mind that either.  I made good
friends with a couple who had a child that age and shared duties.
  
Now that my lord attends events with me again, we tag team.  I never carried a  
playpen or stroller with me, since I liked to sit under the pavilion  
with my baby and let her play on a large blanket.  Many people in the SCA
like to "steal babies" (to get their baby fix) so I always got a break.

Make sure that you do bring your children so that they learn at the toddler
age what behavior is appropriate.  Play the "hold" game when they can walk
and listen.  It's kind of light red light green light, but you tell them
hold, so they learn what that means around list fields.  My 4 yr old has
learned to be quiet during court (even though she complains about sitting
there), but I make sure she knows that everyone goes to court and is quiet
and listens.  She is also getting into archery now so goes and stays with me
at the range, and is learning the rules for behavior there.

Lady Brenna MacDonald
Westgate

On 7/10/07, Susan McMahill <sueorintx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> My son was older when we started with the SCA, but there is one thing I
> have thought of while watching parents of young children at events. Hire a
> 'nurse' or 'governess' for the event. It is perfectly 'period' to have
> someone else to assist with the care of young children so that in the event
> that mom and/or dad want/need to be somewhere, their child/ren are being
> cared for by someone they know and trust. I see plenty of tweens and teens
> wandering about looking bored. Perhaps there is one in your group that
> wouldn't mind earning a few pence or a bauble or trinket for babysitting for
> part or all of the event. If you have a non-SCA babysitter that you trust,
> perhaps paying their site fee and providing them with a t-tunic or something
> in the line of garb in addition to some compensation would entice them to
> help you out at an event. I know it's an added expense, but it's worth a
> thought as well as piece of mind and less frayed nerves.
>
> Lyneya


From: Chelsea Durham <baby_sis_83 at hotmail.com>
Date: July 10, 2007 11:03:24 AM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] OT?: SCA baby

About the body harness: The people that give you grief about them have
obviously never chased a 2 year old through the mall, so tell them that.
When my kid starts walking, that's the first thing I'm buying. I've at least
had enough experience chasing my niece through the mall that I think a body
harness is God's gift to mankind.

-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel


Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:11:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] bread in milk
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> That makes me wonder about how long bread in milk
> has been used for infants and the ill. I've read
> about it in Victorian books but not before then.
> Margarite

Bartholomaeus Metlinger, who wrote one of the first printed books on paediatry (1472), says that once the front teeth of children appear, "dann so mag man inen  
etwas stercker kost geben/ als ein brot in eyner milch geweicht oder in einer fleisch pr?e/ oder erbiszpr?" (then one may feed
them on somewhat more solid food, like bread soaked in milk or in  
meat broth or in pea broth).

E.


From: Chelsea Durham <baby_sis_83 at hotmail.com>
Date: April 17, 2009 9:28:30 AM CDT
To: <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Feeding toddlers at events

<<< you might also think of how to keep track of him... I know that when I was in public with my children when they were little, I used a large dog collar and leash... yes, I know sounds odd but with the collar opening in the back they didn't escape.  BTW my youngest is deaf and autistic.

Lady Kaitlan >>>

I generally take a washable marker and write "Property of Lady GrĂ¡inne, Barony of the Steppes" on his clothes. Usually his bottom since generally it's less likely to get anything wet on it. I'm thinking of adding, "Please return to rapier lyst field."

-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel


From: "Elisabeth B. Zakes" <kitharis at gmail.com>
Date: April 17, 2009 9:35:32 AM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Feeding toddlers at events

Food:
cheese (string cheese sticks are good for small hands), bread (rolls),
sandwich meat (you can roll it around the string cheese), apple bits,
grapes, and other assorted finger foods like that. Put things into ziplock
bags, and you can pull out a bag with one portion at a time. No bulky
packaging to take up room in the ice chest.

Return to:
We made a small (about 4x4) fabric copy of Tivar's arms and pinned that to
the back of the child. It wouldn't get in their way, and everyone at the
event could have a visual match to child and pavilion, as both had the same
device. That worked for someone who didn't know the name "Tivar Moondragon,"
and there was no question about "Where is he?" But then, Tivar and I traded
off who had "kid duty" at an event, so the kids never had to be brought back
by a stranger. :)

Control:
You can usually find a body harness and child leash in most stores. Much
better than attaching to a wrist, and again, usually doesn't bother the
child at all. Leave the harness on and only attach the leash when in crowds
or when more control is needed. We got the kids used to the harness before
the event so its use AT the event wouldn't be unusual.

Aethelyan Moondragon
Bryn Gwlad


Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 10:15:17 +1000
From: "Paul Adams" <pauladams at iprimus.com.au>
Subject: [Lochac] new book
To: <st-florians-l at yahoogroups.com>, <riverhaven at yahoogroups.com>,
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

From another list:
<<< Those of you who teach students competent in English may be interested in
This recently published sourcebook:

Medieval writings on secular women, translated and with an introduction by
Patricia Skinner and Elisabeth van Houts (London: Penguin, 2011).

It is organized around women's life cycle and has a number of documents
regarding childbirth, infertility, wetnursing... which may be very useful as
a teaching resource.

Steffan >>>

<the end>



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