cl-Mid-East-msg

This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

cl-Mid-East-msg - 5/8/13

Period clothing of the Middle East. Referances. Persia.

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

From: manderson2 at aol.com (MAnderson2)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Moorish/Andalusian garb

Date: 16 Dec 1994 03:15:17 -0500

kellmer at u.washington.edu (Brent Kellmer) writes:

>Does anyone out there with experience in islamic costuming have any

>suggestions? Is the abba (or more specifically, this type of robe)

>period? Failing that, is there a period equivalent?

I would suggest the following books as references:

Historic Persian Dress 1200-1650 by Linda Hendrick

The Silk Road: a History by Irene M. Franck and David M. Brownstone

Constantinople City on the Golden Horn by David Jacobs

Women in Islam by Wiebke Walther

My wife used them when researching Arabic costumes.

Bernard the Nameless

(mka Mark T. Anderson)

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:06:56 -0700

From: Lynn Douglass <ldouglas at wiley.csusb.edu>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Arab Dress

I just ran across a reference in Compleat Anachronist #14 to an article in

Tournaments Illuminated #51 (Summer 1979) titled, "Arab Dress and How to

Make It." On a long shot, would anyone have a copy of this article, or know

if it was ever reprinted? That back issue of TI seems to be out of print,

though I have put in a request to the editor.

'Ijliyah

Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:55:56 -0400 (EDT)

From: Varju at aol.com

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Middle Eastern personas

A source that I stumbled on and have found very useful is:

_Women's Costume of the Near and Far East_ by Jennifer Scarce. copyright

1987 by Jennifer Scarce, published in 1987 by Unwin Hyman ltd., London,

North Sidney, and Wellington. ISBN 0-04-391011-4

Its main focus is Turkish costume and its influence on Balkan and Middle

Eastern costume. An excellent book with excellent illustrations.

Noemi

Date: 25 Jul 1997 08:47:12 -0700

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Arab Dress

>From what I understand, while a sort of Salwaar-kameez is appropriate for

Berber, and for late Indian, the sari is in no way appropriate, any more

than a "traditional" western costume is, being an eighteenth century

fashion thing. The little research I have done (admittedly, just a few

books particularly moghul period, and form investigating while I was over

There is a reproduction of a minuture in a book called "The Harem, behind

the veil". The picture is 15-16thC and shows indian women wearing *very*

sheer choli and shirts, layered skirts over pantaloons and large veil/scarves

which might pass for saris worn very casually. They are showing a heck of a

lot more than just navel. Of course they are inside, not on the street.

brid

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:06:49 -0500 (EST)

From: <Varju at aol.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Turkish costuming

_Women's Costume for the Near and Far East_ by Jennifer Scarce is also an

excellent source of ideas for Turkish costume. There are a number of

pictures from traveler's diaries from just outside period (early 1600's)

that are excellent as well as good descriptions. It also contains a few

patterns from much later garments that were laid out that can give you a good

idea on contruction.

I can't find my copy right now, but another great source is (I think this is

the right title) _The Art of the Age of Sulyiman_ which shows the items

left in the tombs of the Sultan Sulyiman and his family. not a lot on the

actual women's garments, but it does have great pictures of the accessories,

such as the embroidered headbands they used to keep their veils in place.

As for the Pechenegs, all I know is that they are a nomadic people that

pushed the Magyars from the steppes into the Carpathian Basin. I am not sure

if they were a Turkic people or not. By shifting the Magyars out of the

way, they may have come under the rule of the Khazars.

Noemi

From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Middle eastern garb

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:19:17 GMT

Organization: Green Duck Designs

"pbou" <boulton at interact.net.au> wrote:

>Hi I am a newby to the society and was wondering if anyone could help me

>out with finding a design.

>I have decided on a middle eastern persona, sort of, more of a crusader

>gone native. I was wondering does anyone know where I could get a pattern

>for an Aba.

>Raymond of tripoli

Atira's Fashions pattern AF33 (Omar's Aba) will fit your request.

Available from Green Duck at web site lised below.

Derek

| \ Steve Urbach

| )erek

____|_/ragonsclaw theducks at greenduck.com

/ / / http://www.greenduck.com

From: DDFr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Middle eastern garb

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:47:54 -0800

Organization: Santa Clara University

"pbou" <boulton at interact.net.au> wrote:

>Hi I am a newby to the society and was wondering if anyone could help me

>out with finding a design.

>I have decided on a middle eastern persona, sort of, more of a crusader

>gone native. I was wondering does anyone know where I could get a pattern

>for an Aba.

Let H be the distance from hem to neck, W the full width of the finished

garment. Take a rectangle H by 2W-x, where x is about 2". Fold at W/2 -

x/2 and 3W/2+x/2. You now have a single piece folded into the shape of an

aba. Sew the shoulder seams. Cut slits for the arms to go through (along

the folds). You are done. That is how at least one period Aba (I think in

the Met, labelled a "Tiraz Garment" as I recall, but in the form of an

Aba) goes together--except that in the original the arm slits were woven

into the cloth rather than cut. I don't know if it is how modern Abas are

done or not.

I have a picture in the current edition of the _Miscellany_, but the

webbed edition doesn't have the pictures, and in any case is from the

previous edition.

You can find pictures of aba's in Max Tilke's book, which is webbed at:

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/contents.html

David/Cariadoc

From: lesterw at mindspring.com (Lester Williams)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Middle eastern garb

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 00:19:39 GMT

"pbou" <boulton at interact.net.au> wrote:

>Hi I am a newby to the society and was wondering if anyone could help me

>out with finding a design.

>I have decided on a middle eastern persona, sort of, more of a crusader

>gone native. I was wondering does anyone know where I could get a pattern

>for an Aba.

>Raymond of tripoli

The easiest way I know of to explain an aba is to take a large

rectangle of fabric - fold it so that the fold is at your shoulders

and the edges are however long you want the aba. Sew the sides

together leaving openings for your arms and cut a slit up the front

stopping at the fold. There are many ways of finishing this garment

and some even have what I call Protosleeves. Max Tilke is a good

source as well as Art Of Arabian Costume by Heather Colyer Ross. Most

library systems can interlibrary loan this if they don't have it and

the book contains patterns.

Blodwen, Tribe Zareefat

By the way, I don't claim that this cut and pattern is period, ust

simple and functional with a finished product that has the same

general line and fall as the period garment!

From: DDFr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Middle eastern garb

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:19:50 -0800

Organization: Santa Clara University

lesterw at mindspring.com wrote:

>The easiest way I know of to explain an aba is to take a large

>rectangle of fabric - fold it so that the fold is at your shoulders

>and the edges are however long you want the aba. Sew the sides

>together leaving openings for your arms and cut a slit up the front

>stopping at the fold. There are many ways of finishing this garment

>and some even have what I call Protosleeves. Max Tilke is a good

>source as well as Art Of Arabian Costume by Heather Colyer Ross. Most

>library systems can interlibrary loan this if they don't have it and

>the book contains patterns.

>Good Luck!

>Blodwen, Tribe Zareefat

>By the way, I don't claim that this cut and pattern is period, just

>simple and functional with a finished product that has the same

>general line and fall as the period garment!

Most of my abas have been made that way, but the one description I

eventually found of a period garment in the form of an aba folds the other

way, as described in my previous post. Of course, it is possible that both

patterns were used--I just don't know.

David/Cariadoc

[Submitted by LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>]

From: "K. E. Reinhart" <keran at hancock.net>

To: sca-garb at coollist.com

Subject: Middle Eastern garb

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:21:20 -0500 (EST)

For Middle Eastern garb look at the following, if you can find them.

Persian garb

Gray, Basil. Persian Painting. Booking International, c1995.

c1995. paperback ISBN 2-605-00303-5

Reproductions aren't as good as the 2 below

Loukonine, Valadimir & Anatoli Ivanov. Lost Treasures of Persia:

Persian Art in the Hermitage Museum. Mage Publishers, c1996.

hard cover ISBN 0-934211-49-3

Excellent reproductions

Lowry, Glenn D. and Susan Nemazee. A Jeweler's Eye: Islamic Arts of

the Book From the Vever Collection. Washington, D. C.:

Smithsonian Institution and University of Washington Press, c1988.

paperback LC#88-14550 ISBN 0-295-96677-7

Keran Roslin

AEthelmearc

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:26:09 EST

From: <LrdRas at aol.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: headgear for ME?

poohdrum at yahoo.com writes:

<< I am in search of research, photos, etc. for MiddleEastern (ME)

headgear: hats, turbans, headwraps, etc. >>

You might try this site:

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/

Click on 'Begin'.

This site has lots of pictures of garb for anyone interested in middle eastern

costume in general although the 'cabaret' crowd might find it disppointing.

:-)

Ras.

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:59:50 -0500

From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: headgear for ME?

Wynnie wrote:

>I am in search of research, photos, etc. for MiddleEastern (ME)

>headgear: hats, turbans, headwraps, etc.

What time period and location are you interested in researching?

Cariadoc's _Miscellany_ has a brief article about Islamic attire that

includes something about a turban. There are some very good references in

the bibliography. _Early Islamic Textiles_, referenced there, has a photo

of a cap. You can find this article at:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/islamic_clothing.html

The Tilke book on the website Ras mentioned seems to focus on the dress that

was current in Tilke's day, not on medieval dress. Also, if this book by

Tilke is as inaccurate as his _A Pictorial History of Costume_, I wouldn't

place a lot of faith in it.

Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth

capriest at cs. vassar. edu Frostahlid, Austrrik

Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 16:29:57 -0500

From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: headgear for ME?

I knew I had another source rooting around here somewhere!

Gillian Eastwood, "Textiles," pp. 285-326 in

Donald S. Whitcomb and Janet H. Johnson, _Quseir

al-Qadim 1980 Preliminary Report_. American

Research Center in Egypt Reports, Vol. 7 (Malibu:

Undena Publications 1982).

The Quseir al-Qadim finds are from two distinct periods--the Roman period

and a later Islamic one (I think about the 14th century, but I foolishly

didn't copy that page)--at an Egyptian site near the Red Sea. With respect

to the Islamic finds at this site, the chapter discusses several extant

examples of caps and veils, and also offers a tunic cutting draft. There's

also a page of seam finishings, information on some veils, weaving details

on the textiles, and all sorts of similar goodies. Other chapters in the

book (e.g., "wooden objects," and the one on foodstuffs they found) will

prove equally enthralling to those with Islamic personae.

Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth

capriest at cs. vassar. edu Frostahlid, Austrrik

To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Simple Authentic Persian/Turkish Garb

Posted by: "Lilinah" lilinah at earthlink.net urtatim_alqurtubiyya

Date: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:27 pm (PDT)

Elisabeth wrote:

>So there is an upcoming event that is themed middle eastern. I

>thought it be fun if I could find some info and patterns for simple

>garb. All the items I have found were 16th c. and not so simple.

>Does anyone have anything out there a bit earlier? I just wanted to

>have a bit of fun with it and keep it easy. This is will be one of

>those once in awhile things like my viking garb.

I'm not sure which Turkish you're thinking of, since there were

several significant Turkish groups within SCA period.

Persian

16th C. Persian is pretty simple. Unfortunately the Persian patterns

from http://reconstructinghistory.com have not yet been published.

But i host Rashid's Persian patterns on my website. Main body is

rectangular, sleeves are simple trapezoids.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Costuming/rashid/

Men and women for the most part wore outer garments of the same

style. The hardest part is sewing on buttons and loop fasteners -

garment is simple, only the finishing can be time consuming.

Ottoman

http://reconstructinghistory.com has already published patterns for

Ottoman garb for both men and women. Ottoman garb is similar to

Persian, although there are some distinctive differences, especially

in the scale of the motifs on the textiles - Ottoman being quite

large and most Persian being fairly small.

Arabic

If you want something simpler, there's 14th century Egyptian. Rashid

has some patterns based on archaeological finds, as published in a

scholarly book. I've made garb from my own patterns based on the same

scholarly article.

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/GarbWorkshops.php

Scroll down to "Egyptian Men's Clothing"

Both men and women wore the same clothing - there are existing law

suits between husbands and wives over who gets to wear a particular

tunic and when.

There's another tunic shape common in Arabic-speaking cultures. As

with the other garments, the central panel is a simple rectangle the

width of which is the measurement between your shoulder points and

the length is twice the measurement from your ankles to your

shoulders. Rectangular sleeves or trapezoidal sleeves (narrower at

the cuff), and 4 side gore pieces all the same size, two facing each

way.

This is very quite to assemble - 1. sew the top of each gore to each

side of the underarm seam of the sleeves (that's four steps and you

will have two pieces - each is gore-sleeve-gore); 2. sew each

sleeve-gore assembly to the main body (two steps, just 2 long

straight lines) 3. cut out the neck hole; 4. sew from armpit to hem

and from armpit to cuff. 5. turn under hem and cuffs and neckline.

Voila.

I think that Rashid as a version of this with the "Egyptian Men's

Clothing". The patterns there also include sirwal and a cloak.

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Help with a Middle Eastern Male Persona

Posted by: "Judith Epstein" judith at ipstenu.org ipstenit

Date: Fri Dec 4, 2009 5:25 am ((PST))

On 3 Dec 2009, at 8:07 PM, maebeline23 wrote:

<<< M'Lords and M'Ladies of Gleann Abhann,

I am trying to help my fiance' with his Middle Eastern Persona, but I am having no luck finding anything online. Does anyone know of any good sites that have good documentation on the garb? This persona has me stumped! Please help?

Marie Isabelle Taillour >>>

Many, many! It will help to know what areas of the Middle East your fiance' is looking towards, but in the meantime I've been collecting garb links, too.

Madan slipper/shoes (Late 12th/Early 13th Century)

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/SHOE45.HTM

Khuff Persian Boots (Late 12th/Early 13th Century)

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/SHOE44.HTM

Gutal, Traditional Mongol Boot (Speculative)

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/SHOE46.HTM

Patterns by Rashid, a SCAdian like us!

http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Rashid/Rashid0.html

Garb Workshops by Rashid

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/GarbWorkshops.php

Traditional Palestinian Embroidery Patterns (may or may not be Period)

http://palestinianembroider.tripod.com/traditional.htm