cl-Scotland-msg - 10/31/01
Clothing of Scotland. folding of kilts.
NOTE: See also the files: cl-Scot-fem-art, cl-Scot-male-art, cl-Ireland-msg, Scotland-msg, Ireland-msg, clothing-books-msg, fd-Scotland-msg, haggis-msg.
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From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Date: 9 Oct 90 02:39:57 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago
Tartans Etc.
"I think that clan-specific tartans date from the late 18th and early
19th centuries." (Steve Duncan)
"A question comes to mind immediately.... How much of the clan
tartan business is a Victorian Romanticism" (Laura Rydal)
I read up on this subject many years ago; I am afraid I no longer
have the references. Apparently the "traditional clan tartans" were
forged by the brothers Sobieski-Stuart early in the nineteenth
century. They claimed to have gotten them from a medieval manuscript
in their possession (Vestiarum Scoticum? Some Latin name like that)
which they were very reluctant to let anyone else examine. The
Sobieski-Stuarts claimed to be descendants of both the Polish and
Scottish royal families, and were very popular with the celtophile
aristocracy of the time. There are, I believe, regimental tartans
that are much older, but I do not think any are known to be period.
Incidentally, the Skean Dhu (stocking knife) also appears to be a
"celtic revival" invention (not necessarily by the same people). The
Scottish Dirk, on the other hand, is real, but the earliest evidence
is slightly post-period; it appears to be a descendant of the ballock
dagger, which is period.
Cariadoc
(David Friedman)
DDFR at Midway.UChicago.Edu
From: Ioseph of Locksley
Date: 09-Oct-90 01:09pm
Subject: tartans
From: laura at ux1.lbl.gov (Laura Mcvay)
>Is there a good reference extant which discusses Medieval Scottish
>Dress, with illustrations from paintings, brasses, etc. There were
>some differences according to period accounts, but I'll like to know
>more. Perhaps there is a book of portraits from the National Museum
>of Scotland? I'd love to know about it and how to obtain it..
My researches show that Scots nobility, at least, wore Anglo-French
fashions, about 50 to 100 years out-of-date. The Highland garb was
mostly the "saffron shirt" (which tended to be a padded gambeson)
for men, and standard generic peasant garb for women.
"I read up on this subject many years ago; I am afraid I no longer
have the references. Apparently the "traditional clan tartans" were forged by
the brothers Sobieski-Stuart early in the nineteenth century. They claimed to
have gotten them from a medieval manuscript in their possession (Vestiarum
Scoticum? Some Latin name like that) which they were very reluctant to let
anyone else examine. The Sobieski-Stuarts claimed to be descendants of both
the Polish and Scottish royal families, and were very popular with the
celtophile aristocracy of the time. There are, I believe, regimental tartans
that are much older, but I do not think any are known to be period."
(Cariadoc)
There are, apparently, five setts that have been accepted by Lyon
King-of-Arms as pre-1745 -clan- patterns. Three of those are my own
clan (MacRae) setts, MacRae Hunting/Dress, and Prince Charles Edward
Stuart. There is also Rob Roy, and Black Watch. I have yet to find
any pictorial evidence of tartan in medieval times, tho much from
post 1550 can be dug out. Most of the other setts tend towards post
Victorian times in age.
"Incidentally, the Skean Dhu (stocking knife) also appears to be a
"celtic revival" invention (not necessarily by the same people). The
Scottish Dirk, on the other hand, is real, but the earliest evidence is
slightly post-period; it appears to be a descendant of the ballock dagger,
which is period." (also Cariadoc)
Worn in the stocking of the kilt (a post-1650 style) yes, but in
period it was worn in the armpit. I figured out how to do this
from research about two years ago.....and have been working on an
article for TI on period Highland dress ever since.....should be
ready to fly in about 6 months or so.
-Ioseph of Locksley
Harper to Clan MacRae
From: kinsey at nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Kinsey)
Date: 16 Oct 90 16:15:04 GMT
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
>>I've seen 16th century portraits (not many,
>>but a male and a female) that show the great kilt incorporated with
>>doublet and shirt.
>
>Where? Where? I'd love to do a scots doublet for 12th night.
When I was in Scotland, I went to the National Art Museum in Edinburgh. There
was one painting in particular that had left an impression on me. It was
a picture of a large (stocky) man in a great kilt, but instead of a tunic
covering his upper body, or bareskin, the man was wearing furs. I think the
painting was done in either the 16th or 17th century, but I think is was
portraying someone from earlier times, probably 15th century.
Also, I just watched "Highlander" again this past weekend, and parts of the
story take place in 15th century Scotland. This was the manner in which
the Scots were dressed in the movie. Hope this helps.
Yours in service,
Eiriol of Lothian
From: sgj at slc1.brl.mil (S. Gwen Johnson)
Date: 13 Oct 90 06:15:35 GMT
Organization: Paladin.aberdeen.md.us
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
I'll make it brief, kilts come in two basic types: great kilt and
little kilt. Little kilts are modern kilts, and are an 18th century
invention. It seems that the word kilt at this time was attached to
this garment, and the term great kilt was coined to descirbe what had
been worn before. Alas, I can't remember what the gret kilt was
called in period before, but it was nothing remotely ressembling
'kilt'. The great kilt is a plaid (a rectangular peice of cloth, not
necessarily tartan. Isn't the evolution of langauge fun?)
Great kilts are period, they were worn for a long time. Just how the
were worn is a matter of debate. As is just who wore them, and for
what activities. I know a couple of wearing a great kilt, I'll
describe them if asked. I've seen 16th century portraits (not many,
but a male and a female) that show the great kilt incorporated with
doublet and shirt. The basic great kilt takes five yards minimum of
wide wool. In period it was made of narrower fabric than we have now,
'and going up a hill, or in a wind, the indecency of it is plain'
which is a fairly close quote of an eyewitness account in a time
period I can't remember. Aargh! 'Formal' great kilts took up to
thirty yards. Great kilts are not sewn (a boon for those of us who
view needles with supsicion) and have *pockets*, lots of pockets.
Scotland seemed to delight in 'chequered cloths' as one translation of
Diodorus would have it, the Irish seemed to prefer plain cloths. As
to when they were worn, well, only by men on foot. (Do not ride a
horse in a skirt with no underwear underneath!) As such I suspect
they were only worn by the nobility on rare occassion, and were in
fact the garb of the commoner. Having worn great kilts myself on a number of
occassions they are quite comfortable, even at Pennsic (as long as you
don't exert yourself.) Some historians suggest the kilt was only worn
out of doors and was removed upon entering a dwelling. This would
mean that the shirt/tunic worn underneath was long enough to preserver
modesty, which is certainly possible. The consensus of opinion is
that they were worn all the time, and were not reserved for outerwear.
Do note that in period they were only worn by men, but in SCA are
often worn by women. In period something similar (the illustration
wasn't real clear) was worn by women over their skirt, but it was
tucked in the waist and not taken up onto the shoulder as the great
kilt was. On the other hand, kilts are heavy and pull at the
shoulder, even ripping a lightweight shirt, so it is quite conceivable
that the woman painted had tucked her plaid in at the waist for
reasons of comfort, and that the custom was to wear them on the
shoulder as men did.
Note that modern SCA usage says women should pin the kilt to the right
shoulder, and men to the left. This is not documented in period in
any way shape or form. (That I know of, and I've looked into the
subject.) Men would pin it to whichever shoulder would leave them a
free arm for using a weapon. And I imagine it was sometimes pinned to
both shoulders, for various reasons having to do with comfort. And
sometimes it was not pinned. The great kilt has many virtues, but it
voluminous folds can get in the way of real work.
Legend has it that the little kilt was invented by a carpenter who got
tired of the bulk. He removed his great kilt, cut it in half and wore
it as a cloak and a little kilt, the cloak being laid aside during
work or warm weather. This is no doubt (in my mind) part of the
Apocrypha of Scottish culture. But it does sound plausible.
Sorry I can't name my documentation, it's been a long time since I
looked into this matter and having settled it to my satisfaction, I
ceased to worry about it.
Awilda Halfscot, sometimes Halfdane
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Date: 22 Oct 91 03:47:28 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago
Everyone knows that period Scotsmen wore Skean Dhu's (stocking
knives). So far as I can tell, they are actually an invention of the
Celtic Revival, c. 1800. The Scottish Dirk is earlier, but there seem
to be no examples before 1600, although it may be a descendant of the
period ballock dagger. The present system of clan tartans is
apparently a forgery by the brothers Sobieski-Stuart, c. 1800,
although tartan patterns go way back.
Cariadoc
Subject: Scottish Persona Question
Date: 31 May 92
From: boris at sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
GREETINGS AND FELICITATIONS.
I am amazed at the number of people who aren't willing to walk over
to an encyclopedia and look something up.
dates :
1500's tartans come into use, predominatly in the
northern highlands.
1715 The earl of mar brings the tartan to public attention.
(ie widespread knowledge )
1745 tartan and highland dress banned. Most tartan patterns
lost. most modern tartans date from the 18th century.
Until the middle of the 1700's both men and women of the highlands
wore 'simple' clothing made of tartan. The men wore a 'feile-mor',
which was a rectangular piece of cloth 5 or 6 yards long and 54 inches
wide. The lower 22 inches or so were pleated onto a belt and secured
around the waist. The shorter edge fell to just above the knee, while
the remainder was used as a cloak over the head or shoulders and
pinned on one shoulder. It was often used as a blanket at night, but
mostly severed as a 'coat'.
It should be noted that the pleats of the feilemor were not stiched
in as in the modern kilt and that they were held in place only by the
belt. The military were the first to stich the 'kilt' in the late
1700's.
Triubhas or trews are as old as the feilemor. Of tartan cut on the
cross, (on-the-cross means with the lines running diagonally to the
horizontal) with the feet tailored in and worn inside the shoes.
Garters were worn at the knee to prevent bagging. The trews were
favored by gentlemen of the times. Only occasionally were the
trews separated into breeches and hose.
A very long shirt was worn, long enough to be quite decently dressed
in it alone.
Often many different tartans were worn at the same time. By this I
mean the trews would be different from the hose and both would be
different again from the cloak. Fairly common. It drives the
uneducated up a wall when you do it too.
The sporran originated as a bag worn on the belt. The modern version
is very stylized and decorative version of the common english purse of
the middle ages. It was plain leather and often highly decorated.
The balmoral bonnet of knitted wool is at least 500 years old,
while the flat wedge-shaped glengarry bonnet favored today was
only invented in the early 1800's.
Shoes are straight forward style of the time. Same as in england.
Though in earliest times were of untanned hide. Cuaran (sock-like
boots) were made of horse or cow hide and were worn to just below the
knee. They were shaped to the form of the leg and secured in place
with thongs. Though it was common practise to go bare-legged or
barefoot.
Arms consisted of bows and arrows, spears, swords, dirks, axes,
shields and later firearms.
Expert archers were very common. The claymore is the older sword most
commonly used. the broadsword is fairly modern. Very good with the
claymore they were without equal with the dirk. Shields or targes were
also common.
wickerwork was common.
As far as what tartan to wear, wear whatever strikes your fancy.
the idea of wearing a 'clan' tartan is a modern one, and many people
in days of old wore whatever the weaver produced or had tartans
invented or modified. trends or a good weaver would set the 'common'
tartan of a village or district but borrowing from distant areas was a
common practise. ANYONE can wear a tartan. If they tell you that you
have no right to the tartan then laugh at them. Clan badges are an
entirely different thing though as each is usually the personal badge
of the clan chief.
Early tartans are likely to have been simple chequered cloth, with the
plaids and elaborate tartans evolving much later.
All this from a coupla Scottish Clan and Tartan history texts from
Scotland and written by Scots. A lot of lore got lost as a result of
the oral traditions and after the failure of the jacobite rebellions.
hope it helps.
boris
;E-mail: boris at sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Subject: Scottish Persona Question
Date: 26 May 92
From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
In <1992May26.122406.25733 at dartvax.dartmouth.edu> nathans at coos.dartmouth.edu (Nathan Shafer) writes:
>1) What's the earliest that the [I don't remember the Gaelic spelling, so
> I have to go phonetic] "breck'n faile", the precursor to the kilt in
> which the pleats were folded in and belted, not sewn in, was worn? I
> want to make my persona as early as possible.
I'm afraid you're not going to like the answer. The more recent books
on the subject all seem to indicate that the belted plaid, the predecessor
of the modern kilt, does not go back nearly as far as once believed.
Apparently, the idea that the kilt had origins "lost in the midst of
antiquity" originated with 18th Century Scottish poets, and later authorities
repeated this as fact without bothering to check it. Modern research seems
to indicate that the belted plaid originated in the Scottish Highlands
sometime around the early 1600's and did not become universally popular
until the mid-to-late 1600's. The earliest reference to something which
might be a belted plaid seems to be a description of Scottish mercenaries
who arrived in Ireland in the 1580's wearing "fringed cloaks beneath their
belts" (or something very close to that). Prior to this, it appears that
Scots wore trousers or "trewes" (not to be confused with the short pants,
also called "trewes," which are worn underneath a kilt).
>2) If at some point I should become interested in Court goings-on, I
> assume I should acquire some garb that is more formal, yes? What is
> available to Scotsman tyhat would be period and accurate? The dress
> kilt, with all the flashy accoutrements, would not be available in
> the time period I'm thinking about.
Portraits of Mary, Queen of Scots and her husband, Lord Darney, show them
in what appears to be more-or-less standard Tudor-Elizabethan costumes. If
it's good enough for them...
-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,rec.org.sca
From: gleason at scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Subject: Re: Instructions for ancient kilt - feileadh mor
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 16:11:28 GMT
Ok. Here's how I fold my great kilt. It's not the only way to do it but
it works for me...
I take 6 yards of plaid, or roughly twice the length from my hands
extended above my head to the floor, 60" wide and fanfold it so it
unfolls easily. (Note: some use 8-10 yards but that's silly and is
too bulky and keeps in too much heat.)
Take one edge of the fabric and measure in 1 cubit (elbow to fingertip)
Pleat the rest of the plaid (deeply) until there is 1 cubit unpleated
on the other end. You want the pleats deep enough and close enough
together to form 1 cubit of pleats. For me that's wrist-to-fingertip
deep and 1.5" to 2" apart.
Take a belt and slide it under the plaid across the pleats. Lie down
on top of the pleats having the fabric end at the knee (or just above
if you wanna show them off). Adjust the belt to where your waist is.
Put the right edge of the plaid over your body. Now the left. Cinch
the belt to fit.
Now stand up. You'll notice that in front you have 4 layers of
fabric; the outer two longer than the inner two. There are two ways
to go with these:
Method 1: Take the corner of
the first layer and twist to bunch the fabric. Tuck this under itself
and into the belt under it to keep it there. Put on another belt and
a sporan over the plaid. Take the second layer at the corner and twist.
Pull this around
the back and over your shoulder. Affix to shirt with a brooch or pin;
or to belt with a length of cord.
Method 2: Do the same for the first and second layer in this method
that you did for the first layer in method 1. This keep the plaid off
your shoulders (cooler), doesn't put holes on your shirts, and doesn't
slode off your shoulder all the time.
You may want to take the outer layer in back and tuck it over and into
your outer belt to give you better ventilation.