cl-Ireland-msg - 2/6/08
Medieval Irish Clothing.
NOTE: See also the files: Ireland-msg, cl-Scotland-msg, fd-Ireland-msg, SI-songbook1-art, bagpipes-msg.
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From: trifid at agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Date: 1 Aug 91 05:07:17 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum
dkrume at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deborah D Crume) writes:
>Greetings, visitors to the Rialto, from Cailin MacFinn!
>
>Does anyone know of any good sources for Irish garb, preferably 13th or
>14th century? The Scottish garb which was recently discussed sounds
>interesting, but of course we ALL know by now that all Celtic people
>did not have the same language, music, dress, etc. ;-)
>
>Please post your reply. I would guess by the names of some of the gentles
>who post here that this would be of interest to a number of folks.
>
>In service to the Dream,
>
>Cailin MacFinn mka Debbie Crume
>Middle Marches, Midrealm Columbus, Ohio
>
>dkrume at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
I recently put this question forth myself, and have received two interesting
answers, which I hope the authors will excuse my passing on:
******************************************************************************
30 Jul 91 10:30 GMT
From: Lesley Grant <lgrant at maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: Irish clothing
To: trifid at agora.rain.com
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
>Could you please elaborate on the saffron leine, and does "leine" refer to
>linen as I have read elsewhere?
"Leine" is the Irish for "shirt"/"tunic" (I suppose a sort of long
shirt). From what I gather, linen would have been the preferred cloth for
high-status people. Commoners would have worn homespun. Saffron was *THE*
most favoured colour, any yellow tended to be called saffron, but a deep,
clear gold seems to be the ideal. To my annoyance, I can't find the article
on Irish garb our herald, Eva de Barri dug up. A great article, telling you
not only how to get authentic colours but also how to make those infamous
"hairy" cloak collars...
I seem to remember from Seamus' reading on Granuaile a description
of Gra'inne's mother as wearing a saffron leine "as befitted a noblewoman".
This would have been early to mid 16th century...
>I have also seen one report that among the Scots, men wore tartan great kilts,
>but women wore their version (the airsaidh) in a stripe of the same sett..
I *think* tartan as we know it was a relatively late development,
perhaps as late as the 17th century? Can't remember where I saw this, though.
I'll search up some references for you. Alas! Trinity library is
closed at the moment (why should librarians be given time off :-), but
they have surprisingly little anyway. I don't think much information exists
anywhere, but I'll do my best.
Sorcha
% Seamus Donn Sorcha Ui' Flahairteaigh
%|% Jo Jaquinta Lesley Grant
/\\ | //\ jaymin at maths.tcd.ie lgrant at maths.tcd.ie
===== 49 Russell Avenue, Clonliffe Road, Dublin 3, Ireland.
/|\ for the Shire of Lough Devnaree (Lough Da'mh na Ri'gh)
From: pbhyb!desande at ns.PacBell.COM
To: trifid at agora.rain.com
Subject: Re: Irish clothing
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
>Could you please elaborate on the saffron leine, and does "leine" refer to >linen
Welcome to the wild and wonderful world of guessing what the Island Celts
wore.
Basically none of your questions can be answered with any proper authority.
There is a reference or two (or twelve) to a ranking system in Irish dress
based on the number of different colored stripes in a garment. Unfortunately
there is no reference to how these stripes were displayed. A King was
entitled to seven colors according to most authorities. There was some
hubbub during the middle ages as to the right of the Catholic priesthood
to use eight-colored cloth for altar cloths, since their god was supposed
to be higher ranking than a King. I don't believe that slaves were
allowed any stripe, but that could be faulty memory on my part.
We have examples of plaid material dating from pre-roman times in Gaul,
so we know that both twill and plaid existed, but we can't say for sure
how they were used. The safest dress for an Irish middle ages personna
would be as follows:
Ankle-length saffron leine, heavily embroidered around the neckline, with
drop sleeves "deep enough to hold a sheep". The leine should be pulled
up and belted so that the bottom rides at mid-thigh (this may embarrass
some people, as there was no underwear). Valuable items were carried in a
purse worn at the side. This moved around to the front and became the
Scottish Sporran. A balloc knife or some other such weapon worn at the
waist, with a short dagger worn in a holster under the leine under the arm.
No shoes or hose. A wool blanket approximately 60 inches by 5 yards of
either plain homespun wool or tartain (make sure you stay away from
analyne dies). This became the breacan feile, or great kilt of the Scots.
A leather jerkin is appropriate, depending upon the period. The hat should
be a soft knit (yes, knitting is period) or crochetted (spelling?) floppy
hat. In winter legs would be wrapped in the Norse fashion and furs would
be worn in addition to the blanket. At home the Celt often went without
clothing at all, depending on the weather. Males made, apparently, no
effort to hide their genitalia.
Women wore (near as we can tell) the leine as a dress, often with an
overskirt and a blanket of 2 or so yards (the arasaid). A bodice,
depending on the period, is appropriate and head covering was apparently
either the arasaid or a shawl.
Tudor period clothing is well documented, as several examples of the
clothing of the nobility still exist. Since SCA folk are supposed
to be noble, this type of clothing would be worn, rather than the peasant
costume described above.
It has been my experience with SCA types that the Celts tend to dress
much earlier in style than they think. By the 11th century, court
dress throughout the British Isles was fairly standard amongst the
nobility, the greatest variants being in peasant dress, which the
SCA types are not actually supposed to wear. A houppelande
would be most appropriate for the Irish, depending on the period. You
can get a good idea from the Lindesfarne gospels and the Book of Kells
as to color, cut and detailing for the early stuff.
For ninth and tenth century stuff, Norse dress is very appropriate. They
were thick as flies in Ireland and Scotland during that period. After
the eleventh century, go with Norman styles, since they were the dominant
force in the British Isles until the Germans took over again after the
Stewarts (but that's post-period). Please try and convince your people
that the Celtic nobility did not dress like peasants. Most of the Irish
nobility after 1100 should be Norman in dress, name and flavor. Only the
common folk wore the "traditional" dress.
I hope this helps some. Let me know if I can help you in any other way.
Dougie Mhor
Doug Sanderson-Gomke (Douglas Edwin McAllestyr)
*****************************************************************************
I hope this answers some of your questions. It certainly did mine!
All my thanks to Sorcha and Doughie Mhor.
NicMaoilan
trifid at agora.rain.com
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Irish Garb
Date: 6 Nov 1995 10:07:26 -0500
<The Polsons <polsons at cruzio.com>>
>HELP! This Irish matron of the late 15th C. is getting despirate! I can't find
>ANYTHING AT ALL in my local bookstores or library on 15th C. Irish dress,
>art, or needlework! I've found a little on 14th C. architechture, which
>will help with art and needlework motifs, but I'm really running out of
>ideas... and everybody I've talked to in my area who's doing Irish is
>either earlier or later! Sigh. What now???
<starace at imap2.asu.edu>
>I'm trying to find patterns (or even pictures!) of Irish Garb around the
>1400's. Any help?
<lyon < at infi.net:lyon at infi.net>>
>You should try to get a copy of "Dress in Ireland" by Mairead Dunlevy. It
>gives good descriptions but the pictures start at about 1500. Good luck! If
>you find pictures or other info for earlier, please post here. I'd be very
>interested!
===================================================
I remain convinced that fewer people would have Irish Persona's if they
had to actually *dress* this way.
"The" current source still appears to be "Old Irish and Highland Dress" by H. F.
McClintock (I used the 2d ed. to compile this mess). Also, you might want to try "Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture, 1200-1600" by John Hunt.
Let me hit the basics, so that the terms are the same (since the clothes
remain essentially the same forever, only the details change).
Irish garb throughout the early period was divided into clothes worn by the
upper classes, and those worn by people in subservient positions. The Upper
class wore the garments known as the Leine and Brat, the lower wore the
Ionar and Broc. Most of the descriptions I'm giving are fairly general,
since to be honest, these are based on no known surviving examples (other
than late, late period examples).
With some variations, women wore the Leine and Brat.
Leine and Brat:
Leine: This is essentially a tunic or long shirt, of a largish
nature, and made to be floor length if worn unbelted. When
belted, it was pulled up so that the lower hem reached the
knee and the excess was "bloused" over the belt. There
may have been a large neck opening, or perhaps a collar
similar to that on an Australian Duster, since the Leine
is sometimes refered to as having a hood.
In the early period, the Leine may have had no sleeves, and
it is fairly certain that sleeves cut from a ridiculous
amount of material is a late period style.
The Leine is likely to have been made from Linen, and
is described as being "bright" in color, probably most often
white, although in the later period shirts, saffron yellow
may have been more common.
The predominant decoration of the Leine would have been
either trim or embroidery coming up from the hem and in
rare cases reaching up to two feet from the hem.
Brat: The Brat is a piece of wool, size indeterminate, that was
worn wrapped or folded around the body. It was fringed
or edged in trim or embroidery.
Criss: Belt or Girdle. Probably leather.
Shoes may be worn with this outfit, although the legs are bare. [BTW, the
character of Stephen, in "Braveheart", does wear an interpretation of the above
outfit, although his leans toward the later period descriptions.]
Ionar and Broc:
Ionar: This is a "jacket" or front opening shirt. It may or may
may not have sleeves. It may reach the hips, or be cut to
knee length.
Since the jacket is sometimes said to have been worn with a
hood there is speculation that it too had a rather large collar.
Broc: (Or Truis or Trews) These are related to hose or trousers
worn on continental Europe, although they were not imported
in historical times. They reached to the ankle and some are
described as having a loop of cloth that ran around the
foot (as in modern stirrup pants) to hold them in place,
while others were flat bottomed like modern trousers.
They were made from material that could be brightly colored
or not, checked, striped, etc. The material was cut on a
bias so that the pattern would appear at an angle. They
were sewn to have a single seam up the back of the leg, and
snugly fitted. At some point later in period they were
occasionally made so that the last 6-8" of the bottom were
not seamed together, and buttons were udes to close that
gap.
Note that the short, knee length breeches are likely a
very late period importation.
There no stockings worn, and no cross gartering. This outfit was normally
worn with shoes.
Cochall:Hoods are reported as being widely worn, although few if any
pictoral examples exist to give us clues. There have been a
examples excavated that resemble the "standard medieval hood"
(though without the lire-pipe/tail), including one made from
"otter skin".
And since I can't leave well enough alone...
Kilts: There is a *great* deal of debate on this topic, and it
does appear that the "Kilts are a modern Affectation in
Ireland" has the more solid arguement. However, they
still can't be disproven, and McClintock kindly provides
the bulk of the documentation for them that exists (primarily
so he can debate it). However, if kilts *were* worn, they
were probably (at least according to the posthumous work of
O'Curry) called Leinidh.
=======================================
15th Century Woman's outfit, from tombs "within the Pale"
A gathered and pleated skirt, slightly assymetrically raised on the right
side, to reveal a pleated under gown. Belted. Bodice is close-fitted, but
still blousey, with very full sleeves, gathered at the cuffs. The headwear is
something piled into two cones, right and left.
16th Century Woman's outfit, from tombs in Kilkenny. Based on the Leine, with
a heavily pleated gown (pleats starting at the neck-line), loose fitting belt,
and very full and pleated sleeves, gathered at the wrist. Head wear, in these,
cases is more easily distinguished as a peaked "V" sort of hat.
Men's outfits are beginning to combine the Leine and the Ionar, with a short
doublet, with a large cutaway sleeve, often worn over the Shirt. There are
some portraits that add the Broc to the mix.
If anyone wishes to further discuss this, I'm game.
"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude
-- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: zaphod at zoology.ubc.ca (Lance R. Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: irish women's costume
Date: 27 Feb 1996 16:17:23 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Deloris Booker (dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca) wrote:
> Greetings to all from aldreada of the lakes.
> A friend has asked me to post a request for information on early period
> Irish women's costume. She would like to make a complete outfit
> including leine(spelling unknown), undergown, bratte, shoes, head-dress
> (if any), embroidery or other decoration, accessories, belt, etc.
the best authority is McClintock, *Old Irish and Highland Dress*
(i believe the dewey decimal to be 391.0942 M12o, i was looking at it
last night)
McClintock has a lot of good pictures and analysis of same.
--
Zaphod
From: dickeney at access2.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bog Gown - A longshot query - archaeology Co Clare
Date: 25 Mar 1996 22:14:45 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Maggie Mulvaney <mulvanem at fp.co.nz> wrote:
>Greetings to all and sundry on this bridge from Muireann ingen Eoghain
>
>I am looking for information on a bog-find from Moy, Co Clare.
>what I know is that there was a gown found in 1931, which is
>identified as medieval, but the construction of it is of particular
>interest. It appears in Mairead Dunleavy's book on Irish Costume,
>but I have no citation for further reference.
>
>Does anyone here recall seeing anything about this gown? I'm specifically
>looking for good descriptions of the various pieces, any analysis on the
>material used, in short, an Archaeological report... :)
If this is the one that is 14th or 15th century-- it has a very tightly
gathered skirt, not actually gathers but cartridge pleats, and tapers
also so that although it has a normal size waistline, it has something
like a fifteen foot circumference at the hem. I don't have the details
right at hand, but Kathryn Goodwyn (?) published a booklet some years ago
about Irish garb through the ages and included it. It was virtually
complete, including a stiff bodice lining that was coarsely stitched in
(presumably so that it could be removed easily for cleaning or for use in
another gown. IIRC, the description of how it was made, etc, was written
by a male archaeologist who apparently didn't know how to sew or any of
the standard terminology of sewing, which made his description almost
useless for a seamstress.
-- Tamar the Gypsy
From: bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bog Gown - A longshot query - archaeology Co Clare
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:44:10 -0400
Organization: Cornell University
>I am looking for information on a bog-find from Moy, Co Clare.
>what I know is that there was a gown found in 1931, which is
>identified as medieval, but the construction of it is of particular
>interest. It appears in Mairead Dunleavy's book on Irish Costume,
>but I have no citation for further reference.
This is also described and photographed in McClintock's "Old Irish and
Highland Dress with Notes on the Isle of Man".