coffee-msg - 7/8/06
Coffee and coffee-type drinks. recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: tea-msg, wine-msg, beer-msg, beverages-msg,
beverages-NA-msg, cider-msg, kvass-msg, kumiss-msg, mead-msg, cordials-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: hqdoegtn/G=Harold/S=Feld/O=HQ at mhs.ATtmail.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Coffee
Date: 2 Dec 1993 13:29:25 -0500
I just picked up a deleighful book called *Coffee and
Coffehouses: The Origins of a Social Beverage in the
Medieval Near East* by Ralph S. Hattox, Prof. of Near
Eastern Studies at Washington University, Seattle Wash. (c)
1985 ISBN0-295-96231-3. The scholarship seems thorough, and
the writing style is pleasant and readable (without being
simplistic or anecdotal). The author attempts to use the
controversy surrounding the introduction of Coffee to the
Ottman world as a springboard to examining the early Ottoman
culture. There is also a nice piece in the back about the
particular problems of the diplomatic of the primary
sources.
I recomend it to those here who have expressed interest in
the subject of coffee. Good reading. An excellent
secondary source.
Yaakov (who would never have heard of coffee, doesn't even
like coffee mundanely, but wishes that *someone* would
import the tea he drank as a youth in Cathay.)
From: ayotte at milo.NOdak.EDU (Robert Arthur Ayotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval cappucino request
Date: 14 Jan 1994 02:35:33 -0500
Organization: North Dakota State University ACM, Fargo ND
In article <1994Jan13.011932.2013 at ncsu.edu> you wrote:
: Kind Gentles,
: My associate and I are interested in constructing an authentic period
: cappucino maker (nummy)! If any have info concerning leads to design
: (pictures especially) or the Cappucine monks please E-mail me at
: ejcampbe at eos.ncsu.edu
: We thought this would be a great event treat.
: thank you in advance
: Xavier
: and
: Mezeppa Goloskyn
Sorry to have to be the one to tell you but cappacino is NOT
a period drink. It was developed sometime after espresso was made
in paris (gigga) just before WWII. Coffee was known to the Arabs around
1000 AD, and came to Venice in the 15th C.
It was drunk like early coco (powder whiped into hot water) or
the milled bean was boiled and the resulting fluid (??) was a thick viscous
stuff much like espresso but thicker and more bitter.
Since the additon of milk was late to cocoa as well there's no
period resource for cappacino. BUT One must be flexable at times and if
you want to serve such at an event, just do it. If anyone gives you any
guff, ask them how their "coke" is, and that should quiet them down. Fun
is important too.
Horace
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Cappucino
Date: 18 Jan 1994 03:30:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
<CLSMIT at ccmail.monsanto.COM> wrote:
>
> Greetings unto the Gentles milling about the Rialto from
> Caroline! If, as one gentle mentioned, cappucino and
> espresso aren't period, what about that similar drink known
> in Egypt now as "Turkish coffee"? I had it when I was there
There is a delightfully enlightening book on the subject of the beginnings
of coffee entitled "Coffee and Coffeehouses: the origins of a social beverage
in the Medieval Near East" (ISBN 0-295-96231-3) by Ralph S. Hattox. It
has an interesting discussion of the religious and political controversies
that it generated. (Is caffeine an "intoxicant" and thus forbidden? Is it
desirable to decide that coffee is forbidden whether it's intoxicating or
not if people are meeting in coffee houses and fomenting social unrest?)
The description of coffee preparation techniques in period follow those
for modern "Turkish" coffee -- i.e., you boil the grounds in a small pot
and hope they settle a little before you pour it into your cup. The
essential part of espresso/cappuchino, as I understand it, is that the
coffee is brewed by forcing steam through the grounds. The two processes
would not really be equivalent.
Also worth noting is that while there are a number of eyewitness descriptions
of coffee usage by 16th century Europeans, this book provides no support
for the use of coffee outside the Near East pre-1600. Sorry folks.
Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn (who, being a 13th century Cymraes would
never consider making coffee at events herself but who, out of politeness,
will not refuse the strange things that my friends sometimes give me to
eat and drink)
From: habura at vccnw10.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Cappucino
Date: 19 Jan 1994 14:46:24 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Caroline asks about different sorts of coffee.
Turkish coffee is made by grinding coffee beans into a powder and dissolving
them in hot water, creating an intensely caffeinated, muddy liquid.
Espresso, on the other hand, is made by sending steam through slightly less
finely-ground beans. It is also highly caffeinated, but should not have actual
coffee particles in it. Cappuccino is basically espresso with frothed milk
in it.
Alison MacDermot
(Who, being 14th century, has never actually heard of coffee, but who is
forced to use the body of a 20th century caffeine addict)
From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Cappucino
Date: 24 Jan 1994 05:31:34 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School
In article <940120.86164.WALKERMM at delphi.com>, WALKERMM at delphi.com wrote:
> Coffee hits England in 1583, ...
What is your source for this date? C. Anne Wilson, _Food and Drink in
Britain_, dates the first coffeehouse in England to 1650, and I have not
seen evidence for use earlier. The Larousse Gastronomique says that Coffee
reached Italy in 1615--although I would consider it a less reliable source
than Wilson on matters historical.
--
David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Subject: Re: Turkish coffee
Summary: How to do it
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 02:36:31 GMT
Turkish coffee (modern) is made by very finely grinding coffee (usually
adulterated with whatever it is the French put in it whose name I have
just forgotten) and then placing a teaspoon of the powder in a long-handled
tinned brass cup. It is brought to a boil three times, then usually served
with lots of sugar (one of the shortages that the Ottomans complained about
the most during WWI was the coffee/sugar shortage, and sugar production was
one of the major industrial efforts of the early Turkish Republic).
The result is as strong as espresso, but with a lot more grounds. With
skillful drinking the grounds don't enter the mouth.
One of the more interesting baubles at Topkapi Saray (palace of the Ottoman
Sultans) is a pair of coffee cups (the size of the modern Turkish coffee
cups, demitasse size) each cut from a single emerald.
Coffee was drunk in Constantinople before 1600 (a major reason Sir Alan has
little interest in an earlier persona) and since the croissant may have been
invented to celebrate the Turkish defeat at Lepanto in 1571 he can eat his
favorite breakfast and be perfectly period :-).
--
Michael L. Squires, Ph.D Manager of Instructional Computing, Freshman Office,
Chemistry Department, IU Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-0852 (o) 81-333-6564 (h)
mikes at indiana.edu, mikes at ucs.indiana.edu, or mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
From: sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Medieval Cappucino
Date: 28 Jan 1994 23:54:27 -0500
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
>In article <940120.86164.WALKERMM at delphi.com>, WALKERMM at delphi.com wrote:
>> Coffee hits England in 1583, ...
David Friedman <DDF2 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>What is your source for this date? C. Anne Wilson, _Food and Drink in
>Britain_, dates the first coffeehouse in England to 1650, and I have not
>seen evidence for use earlier. The Larousse Gastronomique says that Coffee
>reached Italy in 1615--although I would consider it a less reliable source
>than Wilson on matters historical.
Harold McGee, _On Food and Cooking_, says:
... Venice became acquainted with coffee through the spice trade in
the 15th century, and in the 16th and early 17th centuries, English
travelers discovered it. [Quotes from English travelers, 1601 and
1607, not entirely complimentary, omitted.]
Despite this preliminary judgment, the new drink was a sensation
across Europe. First brought to England around 1630, it became
ensconced in London coffee houses in 1652, and Parisian cafes (named
with the French word for coffee) followed about 8 years later....
On December 23, 1675, Charles II of England issued "A Proclamation for
the Suppression of Coffee Houses." [quote omitted] The public outcry
was so great that the proclamation was revoked on January 8.
Then again, McGee is also says the only bean known in Europe before
1492 was the fava, so take that for what it's worth. The apparently
relevant entries from his bibliography (he doesn't give specific
endnotes) are
Robinson, E.F. _The Early History of Coffee Houses in England_
London: Kegan Paul, 1893.
Schapira, J., D. Schapira, and K. Schapira. _The Book of Coffee and
Tea_ New York: St. Martin's Press, 1975.
--
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at s.ms.uky.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dani at netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Turkish Coffee
Keywords: Help!
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 20:26:10 GMT
lassman at ccu.umanitoba.ca (Linda):
>...Turkish Coffee, which instructed putting a teaspoon of coffee in a
>brass pot and adding water, then boiling 3 times.
I won't claim this isn't anachronistic, but here's what my Israeli Cookbook
has to say:
1-1/2 cups water, 3 tablespoons sugar, 2 tablespoons pulverized coffee,
pinch of hale (cardamom), 1 tablespoon cold water
"Put the water in a finjan or other coffee pot. Add the sugar and
stir well. Add the coffee mixed with the hale (cardamom). Place
on low heat and bring to a rising boil. Remove from heat and
add the 1 tablespoon cold water without stirring. Return to heat
and bring to a slow boil. Remove from heat and pour froth into
each cup. Bring to a boil a third time, remove from heat, and
serve in small cups. The pulverized coffee will sink like mud to
the bottom, the syrupy liquid remaining above it. This is the
coffee withwhich most Middle Eastern families will break the
fast, after the usual almond or herb drink."
An accompanying note states "...Turskish coffee, which is a sweet
heavy brew, with half the cup full of the pounded coffee grains.
This coffee is never taken with milk, but you may want it bitter,
and then you must say so. Or...you [may] have the coffee with
hale (cardamom). If you are with a Yemenite, you'll also have
ginger added to your brew."
'Luck.
-----
Dani of the Seven Wells
dani at netcom.com
From: adelekta at kentvm.kent.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Turkish Coffee
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 18:37:15 EST
Organization: Kent State Univ.
In article <lassman.2.2D57BBD8 at ccu.umanitoba.ca>
lassman at ccu.umanitoba.ca (Linda) writes:
> and ran across a description of making
>Turkish Coffee, which instructed putting a teaspoon of coffee in a brass pot
>and adding water, then boiling 3 times.
>
>I have the coffee, I have the brass pot and I have the water, but don't know
>how much water. Can anyone help? And would any spices or sugar have been
>added before boiling?
Try using 1/2 cup of cold water, 2 teaspoons of coffee, and 0 to 2
tablespoons of sugar. Mix them all up together, then boil (well, it's not
really a boil - heat it until it foams up). Ground cardamon can be added,
I've also seen references to fumigating the cup with myrrh (I think it was
myrrh - I believe I read it in a book about coffee by a man named Ralph
Hattox -- cannot remember the exact title).
Cardamon warning... I bought some ground coffee that had cardamom in it -- I
found it undrinkably strong (the cardamon flavor, I mean). Use in moderation.
-Zimra al-Ghaziyah, still trying to perfect her coffee-making skills...
From: philippe at avignon.equinox.gen.nz (Peter Thomson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Turkish Coffee
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 94 08:23:32 GMT
Organization:
From what I've read it's also the custom in some some mid-eastern
countries to add a single drop of rose water to each cup, which is the
way I like it best. Also the amount of sugar may be upped for happy
occasions, weddings etc. and lowered, or left out for sad ones, e.g.
funerals.
You should be using finely ground coffee beans. In Greece they have
two types of coffee, Greek which is your basic mid-eastern mud type
coffee, and Nescafe - that stuff the tourists drink with milk in it!!
The amounts I was shown to use are 1 demi-tase cup of water
1 teaspoon of coffee
1 teaspoon of sugar per person.
Cardamom and rose-water optional.
Rowena
From: UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Veggies, Fruits (LONG)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:00
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)
In article <destryD29FrK.DvJ at netcom.com>,
destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker) writes:
>(Who published the Hattox book and what year? -thanks)
87-31618: Hattox, Ralph S. Coffee and coffeehouses : the origins of a
social beverage in the medieval Near East / University of Washington
Press ed. Seattle : University of Washington Press, 1988, c1985. xii,
178 p., 16 leaves of plates : ill. ; 22 cm.
NOT IN LC COLLECTION
Posted rather than mailed, since it might be of rather general
interest.
--
udsd007 at ibm.okladot.state.ok.us (192.149.244.136)
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews) Namron, Ansteorra
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: Medieval Veggies, Fruits (LONG)
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 05:46:17 GMT
I wrote:
: According to Ralph Hattox, _Coffee and Coffehouses ..._, coffee use
: only started spreading outside of Abyssinia in the mid fifteenth
: century.
Max replied:
"Yes, but _in_ the Near East ...between the 10th and 15th centuries
it becames established as a drink..._then_ it spread, after
coffeehouses were opened in Mecca and the drink gained popularity."
Not according to Hattox. His claim is that use was restricted to
Abyssinia until the mid fifteenth century. He goes through the spread
thereafter in some detail; he says it reached Mecca at the end of the
century, Cairo in the first decade of the 16th c.
The publisher (Max asked) is University of Washington Press, Seattle.
Date 1985.
David/Cariadoc
From: simon smith <sds1 at unix.york.ac.uk>
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:37:05 BST
Subject: coffee.msg - 2/2/94
Dear Mark,
I found your interesting collection of messages relating to coffee last week.
Regarding the introduction of coffee into England, the first explicit reference is of course John Evelyn's observation: 'there came in my time to the college one Nathaniel Conopios, out of Greece. He was the first I ever saw drink coffee'. Evelyn was an Oxford undergraduate when he wrote this (ie. between 1637 and 1639). Very probably the coffee was brought in privately by a traveller. The first known coffee house opened in England at Oxford in 1651, followed by London in 1652.
These would have been supplied with coffee by Levant Company merchants, or 'Turkey merchants'. The first major treatise dealing with coffee was published in 1659 by Edward Pocock called 'The nature of the drink kauhi, or coffee'. There is a reference to an East India Surat factor shipping coho (coffee)
dishes in 1640, but the first order the company made for coffee was recorded only December 31 1657 when 10 tons of coho seede was requested from Surat, followed by an order for 20 tons in December 1659. Coffee is first recorded as an item in the company's general court of sales for 10 October 1660. The same year the government imposed an excise duty of 4 pence per gallon on coffee served at coffee houses.
- Simon Smith.
From: simon smith <sds1 at unix.york.ac.uk>
To: Mark Harris
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:02:11 BST
Subject: Re: coffee.msg - 2/2/94
Dear Mark,
Thanks. Just a minor point, however. 1657 saw the publication of Walter Rumsey's
Organum Salutis: an instrument to cleanse the stomach, As also divers new Experiments of the virtue of Tobacco and Coffee. This should probably be considered the first treatise.
A final comment! There is a broadsheet published in 1655 by Pasqua Rosie describing 'The vertue of the coffee drink'.
- Simon.
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18: