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beverages-NA-msg – 7/23/18


Non-alcoholic beverages. Tea, fruit drinks.


NOTE: See also the files: beverages-msg, bev-water-msg, Sekanjabin-art, Bev-f-Hot-Day-art, , fresh-juices-msg, beer-msg, cider-msg, cider-art, Non-Alco-Drks-art, coffee-msg, kvass-msg, kumiss-msg, Orng-Lmn-drks-art, drink-syrups-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



From: strata at FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU ("M. Strata Rose")

Date: 17 Feb 90 22:14:44 GMT


Well, at fine Japanese grocery stores everywhere :-) you can get

barley tea, made from roasted whole barley ground and put into tea

bags. I've seen the bags of whole grain as well, pre-roasted.  Made

with a little honey and diluted by half, it makes a very refreshing

drink. I have no idea if this is anything like medieval "barley

water". My non-educated guess is that if "teas" were reserved to

"real tea leaves & water" then barley water may approximately equal

barley tea.  Caveat: Do not let my speculations assume even a

hundredth of a percent of the weight of actual research!


In Japan, barley tea is a traditional drink, which generally means

it's been around a loooong time.  The green chai that we so often

associate with Japan is actually a Chinese import from around the time

of the Khanate.  I don't have documentation for it, unfortunately, so

I dont' know if barley was actually grown in Japan during the time

period we're interested in.  I've always thought of barley as a

European grain, but what do I know :-)


Me, I just drink it 'cause it tastes good.  :-) :-)




(PS- I also dilute sekainjabin about double, ie 1 part syrup to about 20

parts water, and find it's very good that way and too sweet/sticky for when

you're overheated when it's at normal strength)



From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Date: 5 Oct 90 06:40:57 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

Conjecture vs Fact

"Root beer made from sasparilla is New World, but brews of various

sorts were made from roots in the Olde World.  I have no recipes

except the New World ones, I know that trees of various sorts (such

as willow) were used medicinally and as tonics, I therefore

extrapolate ...   In the name of creativity I am willing to use

period ingredients and period methods and make a beverage that could

have been made in period, we will never know if it was or not."



Several comments.

First, how do you know that brews of various sorts were made from

roots in the Olde World? Are you saying that you have period sources

but they do not happen to have recipes? What are they?


Second, there is a big gap between medicine and ordinary beverages.

If you sat down at a modern restaurant and were served cough syrup or

cod liver oil you would be both surprised and upset. I assume from

what you say that your evidence is only about medical use, which

leaves serving such drinks at a feast still pretty dubious.





From: ken at valkyrie.ecn.uoknor.edu (Ken Burnside)

Date: 3 Oct 90 22:58:49 GMT

Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman


I am VERY interested in hearing of non-alcoholic beverages for SCA

(and other functions).  If these receipes could be collected, and

put up in some place where they could be mailed out or ftp'd, I'd

be very greatful.


My personal favorite:  Norse spiced cider.  (Not necessarily period)


1 gallon of fresh-pressed or spring cider.  (Spring cider is

mildly alcoholic)

2 cups of white whine vinegar.

2 pounds of honey.

1 lemon, diced into .25" cubes.  (unclude the rind!)


2 tbsp of ground cloves.

1 tbsp of ground cinnamon.

1 tbsp of ground ginger.  (optional.  Sometimes causes a bitter taste)

.25 cup of whichever mint you prefer.


Set the cider to simmering.  Dissolve in the honey.  let cool for a

bit, add in the vinegar.  Simmer on low heat while stirring in the spices.

raise the heat a bit, and serve hot.   Each cup should have a sprinkling

of mint o'er the top as it's served.


As this drink sits on the hearth, it grows in potency....be wary of

quaffing the dregs!  (Thou, 'tis said that the bottom of the pot will

rid a man of the chills of the deepest of winters with but a sip...)


For a summer drink, I like to mix a quart of apple cider with 1 cup of white

wine vinegar, fill the rest of the bottle with honeywater (water with a

fair bit of honey dissolved into it) and let it steep with commercially

prepped mint teabags in the sun for a day.  Good served chilled

around a bardic fire.


Thorfinn Halfblind (Ken Burnside)

Marche of Ered Sul, Atenveldt.



From: bnostrand at lynx.northeastern.EDU

Date: 12 Dec 91 08:00:50 GMT


The main problem with the period development of ice tea is not as was

supposed the lack of ice.  In antiquity, runners would be sent to the

mountains to fetch snow for various delicacies.  Later, it was

discovered that if large blocks of ice were cut from frozen ponds and

placed in thick walled storage houses (interestingly enough commonly

called ice-houses) and covered with an insulator such as straw or

sawdust that the stuff would actually last well into the the Summer

months. This was the common source of coolant until the popularization

of heat-pump refrigeration.


The main problem with the development of ice tea is the way in which

tea is prepared.  As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the earliest

form of tea (called DANCHA if I remember correctly) was prepared

by boiling tea bricks.  However, ground tea was developed within

period and it is possible to prepare it with ice water.  There is

even an extant form in which ice tea is prepared by beating tea

powder into icewater.  However, I am unaware of when this form was

developed. Regretably, I forgot to ask my tea-masters when they

taught the form to me.  (SIGH)  There may be some mention of it

in a book I have the title of which roughly translates into

Old Tea and New Tea.  Unfortunately, my copy of "Historical Cha no Yu"

by Plutchow was destroyed in the flood which destroyed much of my

library. (One googleplex of very loud SIGH's.)  It is possible

that the Ice Tea cerimony appears in one of these books but, it

may also be a very recent inovation!


                                       Solveig Throndardottir



From: christer at sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)

Date: 12 Dec 91 07:44:00 GMT


I think we discussed the posibility of ice in the medieval summer about a

year or two ago on the Rialto. A few readers remembered their parents or

grandparents telling about how they would take big chunks of ice in the

winter and put in a stack of sawdust, and it wouldn't melt until autumn.

This worked as a simple cooler during summer. They could probably have done

this in period, but i don't think we have any evidence they did. (Stacks of

this kind could show up on book illuminations and paintings, and there

could be archeological finds of such stacks, but i haven't seen either).


I don't know how much work it would be to produce the necceary amount of

sawdust to get this to work.


(No, i'm not advocating that we should have iced tea because of this).


       Lindorm Eriksson <christer at Sue.KOMunity.Se>



From: duncan at rti.rti.org (Stephen Duncan)

Date: 13 Dec 91 13:53:27 GMT

Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC


christer at sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson) writes:

>I think we discussed the posibility of ice in the medieval summer about a

>year or two ago on the Rialto. [...] They could probably have done

>this in period, but i don't think we have any evidence they did.

>       Lindorm Eriksson <christer at Sue.KOMunity.Se>


Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia has an ice house on the grounds of

the governor's mansion.  It looks something like a round barrow with a

flatter roof (for you archaeologically inclined).  Since Williamsburg

is either just in period or just out of it, the style might be worth

looking at.  They probably even have documentation about ice houses in



In the 19th century, ice harvesting was a major industry in New England,

where the ice was packed into ships for export to the American south.

It even had specialized ice saws.  I don't know how early this began,

though, but note that ice isn't real common in the Williamsburg area,

and even with the Mini-Ice Age in effect, it wouldn't have the ice

fields necessary.


Steve Duncan

duncan at rti.rti.org


Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 13:48:01 -0600 (MDT)

From: "Dawn E. Bergacker" <dawnb at CSN.ORG>

Subject: Root Beer Recipe


I checked with the librarian at the Sugar Association (Suzanne Arnold,

(202)/785-1122), and she found two recipes for root beer.


The first is from _Manufacture and analysis of carbonated beverages_ by

Morris B. Jacobs, published by Chemical Pub. Co. of N.Y. (1959).  It's a

formula that includes methyl salicylate and gum arabic.  I'm fairly sure

that's not what your patron is looking for however (it requires a

homogenizer or a colloid mill to prepare).


The other recipe is from _Beverages: carbonated and noncarbonated_ by

Jasper Guy Woodroof and G. Frank Phillips, published by AVI Pub. Co. of

Westport, Conn. (1974, 1981).  It lists a home formula for making

sassafras mead: 3lb. of brown sugar, 1 pint of molasses, 1/4 lb. of

tartaric acid.  Mix together, pour 2 qt. of water over the mixture and

stir until dissolved.  When cold, add 1/2 oz. essence of sassafras, and

bottle. When you wish to drink it, put 3 Tbls in a tumbler filled 1/2

full with ice water, then add 1/4 tsp. of soda.


I'm not sure if it's still possible to get sassafras oil.  Apparently

sassafras contains an oil similar to thujone and safrole, which are both

considered toxic (_On food and cooking_ by Harold McGee).


The _Food Science Sourcebook_, 2nd edition by Herbert W. Ockerman quotes

the AVI _Beverages_ book in a chart on beverage flavors and says, "Root

beer is made from oils of sassafras, sweet birch, wintergreen, cassia,

spice, citrus, vanillin, and other materials."


I hope some of this is useful.  I also found a book called _How to

make delicious beer and root beer: secrets of successful brewing the easy

way_ by Paul Kersenbrock [Paul's Publications, 1424 Grove, Crete, Neb.

68333], 1983.  It's listed in Melvyl as being held at UCLA College TP 577

K47 1983.


I also know someone who has a recipe that uses yeast (to provide the

carbonation) and a prepared root beer extract (Hires, I think).  I can get

that too if you're interested.


Dawn E. Bergacker (dawnb at csn.org)

Manager of Technical Information, Imperial Holly Corporation

5320 Mark Dabling Blvd, Colorado Springs, CO 80918



From: Lhiannan at f42.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Lhiannan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Root Beer????

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1993 23:02:00 -0500


-=> Quoting KELLEN to All <=-

KE> I have a patron who is interested in finding a recipe

KE> (from scratch) of root beer.  A Mother Earth News article

KE> said it was possible and even gave a few ingrediants, but no

KE> proportions and no directions.


From "The Craft of the Country Cook" by Pat Katz.  1988.  ISBN 0-88179-

014-1. p. 44. (quoting "In the Kitchen" by Elizabeth S. Miller. 1875)


'"Take a handful of yellow dock-roots (be sure to get the long and pointed

green leaf without the red streaks), a handful of dandelion roots, and one

of sarsaparilla roots, and a small branch of the spruce tree; tie them in a

bag, and boil half an hour in three quarts of water, and then take out the

bag and pour the liquid in a crock [and cover as described in the WINE

section]; if too strong, add water; sweeten with molasses, and when cool add

a pint of yeast and let it ferment, skimming it occasionally. It will be fit

to use in a day or two, and must then be bottled and securely corked."'


No warranties. :-)




From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Grenatas; Henry V

Date: 17 Nov 1993 03:44:29 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


>          using pomegranate juice.  Anyone know how many pomegranates

>          you need to boil to get the right amount of juice?

>          Yaakov


With the caveat that this suggestion is from practical modern experience

rather than period research ... I would suggest that you press, rather  

than boil, the pomegranates for juice. Separate the kernals completely

from the rind and other stuff first. Pomegranate rind is incredibly rich

in tannic acid (I made a batch of pomegranate-tanned leather back in my

experimental days) and you want to avoid getting it in your juice.


Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn; West, Mists, Mists



From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Grenatas; Henry V

Date: 17 Nov 1993 14:58:22 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.


hqdoegtn/G=Harold/S=Feld/O=HQ at mhs.ATtmail.COM writes:

|>           Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov.


|>           Does anyone know a recipe for granatas that starts with

|>           *pomegranates*.  They are on sale at the local supermarket.

|>            The Miscellany includes a translation of the original

|>           recipe, which starts with pomegranates, but then redacts it

|>           using pomegranate juice.  Anyone know how many pomegranates

|>           you need to boil to get the right amount of juice?


|>           Yaakov


Greetings Yaakov!


A useful rule of thumb that I've discovered in my brewing

experiments is that using a small press, I can usually extract

about 2/3 of the weight of fruit as juice.  This rule has held

true (approximately) for strawberries, pears, blueberries,

cherries, apples, etc.  I've never pressed pomegranates (too

expensive up here usually), so I'm not sure how well it will

apply. I suppose you should be able to get the same extraction

using a juicer.  If you need 1 litre of juice, use 1.5 kg of

pomegranates. Given how much the size of pomegranates seems

to vary, I wouldn't rely too heavily on recipes that specify

X number of pomegranates.


If you are not juicing the pomegranates first, I think you

can rely on about the same amount of juice being 'leached'

from the crushed kernels when you steep them.


Boil them?  (I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight)


Cheers, Balderik (who wishes he could lay his hands on such

                 things as pomegranate juice up here in the

                 frozen north)



From: jacquetta at aol.com (Jacquetta)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: period non-alcoholic drinks and a moderate snit

Date: 13 Apr 1994 19:58:02 -0400


una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) writes:

> > I'm curious--I assume that there were some tissanes (is that the right

> > word?) and such made from other, local things.  Beers and wines and

> > the like are obvious, but I was thinking of lighter beverages, either

> > for cooling off or for warming the soul on a cold dreary night.  What

> > sorts of things might the average European have chosen?

> > Philippa


I Found an interesting mention of a "sage-flavored Liquid" in "A Medieval Home

Companion" translated and edited by Tania Bayard.  Its a translation of a 15

cent translation of a 14cent tretise by an elderly parisian merchant to his 15

year old bride on housewifery.

"To make a cask of sage-flavored ligquid, take 2 lbs sage, clip off the stems

and put leaves in the cask...."

"To make sage flavored drinks at table in winter, have a ewer of sage water and

pour it over white wine in a goblet...."

Frankly, I'm not too sure about a sage-water drink...




From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann at delphi.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: period non-alcoholic drinks and a moderate snit

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 01:49:40 -0500

Organization: Delphi (info at delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)


Jacquetta <jacquetta at aol.com> writes:

> una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) writes:

>> > I'm curious--I assume that there were some tissanes (is that the right

>> > word?) and such made from other, local things.  Beers and wines and

>> > the like are obvious, but I was thinking of lighter beverages, either

>> > for cooling off or for warming the soul on a cold dreary night.  What

>> > sorts of things might the average European have chosen?

>> > Philippa

>I Found an interesting mention of a "sage-flavored Liquid" in "A Medieval Home

>Companion" translated and edited by Tania Bayard.  Its a translation of a 15

In the "Libro de Guisados" (Spanish, 16th century) there is a recipe for

Clarea, wine spiced with honey, ginger, cinnamon, and cloves.  The non-

alcoholic version appears immediately afterwards "Clarea de Aqua" (Clarea from

Water). It contains the same spices and honey mixed into boiling water, then

strained. I haven't gotten the proportions right yet (death by cinnamon!) but

when done properly, I suspect it would resemble mulled cider.

Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann (rcmann at delphi.com)



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: nostrand at bayes.math.yorku.ca (Barbara Nostrand)

Subject: Re: Period non-alcoholic drinks

Organization: York University

Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 01:46:26 GMT


According to a book I am reading at the moment, whey was a common peasant

drink in Germany during the middle ages.  The peasantry also drank mead

and very rarely wine.  Later, they developed beer which largely surplanted

mead. The peasants also rarely ate bread and instead ate various forms

of gruel (frequently called brot) and sometime fried gruel in pans over

their fires.  The book goes on to state that the price for pork was 1/3

higher than the price for beef.  And, supposably relatively fatty pork

was prefered over leaner pork or beef.


                                             Your Humble Servant

                                             Solveig Throndardottir

                                             Totally Ignorant



From: jari.james at racer.ESkimo.COM (Jari James)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: beverages

Date: 23 May 1994 22:39:40 -0400

Organization: The Racer's Edge - TRE! * (206) 939-7876


]^1drinks were.  I know (or believe at least) that water was not commonly

]^1drunken by the upper classes of medieval society, and have always

]^1heard   that alcoholic beverages were used instead.  I was wondering

]^1what some   non-alcoholic period beverages might be, is there anything

]^1less obvious   than milk, fruit juices, and water.


]^1Thanks to all,

]^1Glenn Berman


One of the 'lower class' drinks was twilsy: plain or flavored vinegars

and water.  Sounds nasty but is really quite refressing.  [Raspberry

vinegar makes my favorite.  Just go easy on the vinegar until you

find the taste you like.  :}]


Her Excellency Mistress Rowan O'Callighan

Barony of Blatha an Oir

Kingdom of An Tir <- home of the 30 Year Celebration!!



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ansrb at orion.alaska.edu

Subject: Twilsy was Re: beverages

Organization: University of Alaska

Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 14:26:56 GMT


Her Excellency, Mistress Rowan O'Callighan Writes:

> One of the 'lower class' drinks was twilsy: plain or flavored vinegars

> and water.  Sounds nasty but is really quite refressing.  [Raspberry

> vinegar makes my favorite.  Just go easy on the vinegar until you

> find the taste you like.  :}]


Twilsy is not just for refreshment anymore!  As students of folk medicine

have known for years, drinking apple cider vinegar and water is very good

for one's health.  The main benefit comes from a regulation of the body's

Ph balance.  My wife has used it successfully for treating both yeast and

sinus infections, and we both take it regularly to promote the growth of

good bacteria in the intestines.  It is important to use apple cider vine-

gar made from *whole* apples. Hain makes a good one.  You should be able

to find it in most anywhere nowdays.  Our mix is one tablespoon per 8oz of

water, and we not only got used to it, we like it!


Colin Ross MacBeolain

The Hammered Wombat



From: tinne at eskimo.com (Susan Profit)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: beverages

Date: 31 May 94 18:42:41 GMT

Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever


Hi. Its out of Period - but what Mistress Rowan calls twilsey was also

known as switchel and used for harvests in the Colonies and Eastern

Canada in the late seventeenth century.  


at }->-  Tinne  ;) Laughter Heals ;D -<-{ at



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Period Iced Drinks

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 03:27:55 GMT


Iced Drinks


For those who are curious about whether and when iced drinks were

used in period ..,. . The _Ain I Akbari_, which I mentioned in an

earlier post, reports that the use of snow and ice dates from about

1586. "All ranks use ice in summer; the nobles use it throughout the

whole year." The _Ain_ does not say what it is used for, but the

passage immediately before deals with a way of cooling water, so I

think it is a fair guess that the ice is being used for cold drinks.


I do not think one can deduce from this that snow and ice were not

used earlier. The passage dates the use of snow and ice since "the

imperial standards were erected in the Punjab." That may mean that

the Mughals started importing ice after they conquered someplace that

was a convenient source--in which case other people controlling (or

trading with) appropriate real estate might have done so much

earlier. I have been told that the Romans used flavored snow, but do

not know if it is true. Does anyone have other period cites for iced



The author gives prices of ice brought in boats (the cheapest method)

ranging from 3 21/25 dams (during the winter) to 14 4/5 dams (during

the rains) per ser (about a Kilo). By comparison, refined sugar cost

6 dams/ser. Saffron cost 400 dams/ser. Sour limes cost 6 dams/ser.

The Dam was a copper coin, equal to 1/40 rupee. The rupee was a

silver coin apparently weighing about 11.5 grams.


The Mughals also had chemical refrigeration. Apparently, dissolving

saltpetre in water is an endothermic reaction. The way you get cold

water is to put 1 ser of water in a closed container. Then put 2 1/2

sers of saltpetre into a vessel with 5 sers of water, and stir the

closed container about in this mixture for a quarter of an hour, when

the water in the container will become cold.





From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Cold drinks

Date: 18 Oct 1994 13:32:42 -0400


His Grace Cariadoc writes of an account of ice and snow being used to cool

drinks dating to 1586. Allow me to add a French account (the exact reference

will have to wait until tomorrow: I will need to go and look it up)

that, following the defeat at Hattin, Salah al-Din, known to the franks as

Saladin, immediately offered his guest Guy de Lusignan a glass of rosewater

cooled with snow. It is to be understood, apart from the obvious courtesy, that

to give an enemy drink was a sign that his life was safe. Consequently, when

the noble Guy drank and then passed the glass to one of his murderous

co-workers (I forget which one), who was guilty of many atrocities, Salah

al-Din immediately told his interpreter to make it very clear that Guy had

given him the rosewater, not Salah al-Din.


Beorthwine of Grafham Wood



From: crouchet at eden.com (james crouchet)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Non-alcoholic period brews

Date: 5 Jan 1995 16:25:25 GMT

Organization: Adhesive Media, Inc.


Rob Sturtevant (Rob.Sturtevant at dt_wongy.wmeonlin.sacbbx.com) wrote:


:         As one who doesn't drink, I don't have a *whole* lot of interest in

: mead

: or beer...  But was there any non-alcoholic brewing in period?  Such as root

: beer or ginger ale?  Could anyone guide me towards sources for such

: information?

: Many thanks  :)


:         Sasha Ivanovitch

:         rob.sturtevant at dt_wongy.wmeonlin.sacbbx.com


I have made root beer and ginger ale and they are quite as potent in

alchohol and other beer and ale. The soft drinks we have now are just a

pale imitation of the real flavors. Root beer has a strong sassafrass and

beer like flavor.  Ginger ale is similarly flavored but with a trur

ginger twang instead of the sassafras-licorice flavor.  Both take some

getting use to.


I suspect the kind of drinks you are looking for are more the product of

mixing than brewing. Check in collections of period recipes as they often

contain drink recipes.





Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)

Subject: Re: beverages

Organization: Motorola

Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:53:20 GMT


lorina.stephens at ambassador.com (Lorina Stephens) wrote:

>If you're looking for non-alcholic,...


Another pleasant and inexpensive period, non-alcoholic beverage is

Coriander water. The taste is subtle, but quite pleasant. Coriander is a

spice readily available in many grocery stores. It is a hard, round seed

that looks sort of like little brown balls about half to one-third the

size of a green pea. A Viscountess I knew many years ago (in AS 12 or so)

said she had found reference in period to water flavored with Coriander.

The way she did it was to place the seeds whole in a pitcher of water,

preferably overnight. When serving, decant carefully so most of the seeds

remain in the pitcher. They can be re-used several times at a given event

by refilling the pitcher. Once the seeds are soaked, they will flavor the

fresh water quite readily. Rinse out and discard the seeds at the end of

the event, so they don't spoil in the decanter.


Regards, Jay Brandt                            <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com>

In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA           (Member # 3016)

Owner/Craftsman            Bear Paw Woodworks           Austin, Texas USA



From: brendt.hess at nwcs.org (Brendt Hess)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: sassafras

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:41:00 GMT

Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA


On the question of sassafras and root beer being period, I came across

an interesting citation in an unexpected source indicating that it is.


In this month's _Discover_ magazine, in the article on the decline of

the Cod fishery on the Atlantic coast, it is mentioned that the fishery

off of Cape Cod was discovered in 1603 by a ship that was hunting for

sassafras. Seems that it was popular as a cure for syphilis.


Now, whether or not root beer was period is a different question, but if

expeditions were hunting for sassafras in 1603, I would be willing to

believe that the use of the plant was already fairly widespread.


M. Vergilius



From: "L. HERR-GELATT and J.R. GELATT" <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: WANTED: Non-alcoholic Beverage Sources/Recipies

Date: 31 May 1996 19:56:46 GMT

Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.


Hi! Aoife Here, with a recipe for, "Sherbet", "Fruit Vinegar" or "Shrub"

as it is known in Jolly Old England. This one was simply gobbled up at

the Known World Party last Pennsic. It works best with raspberries or

blackberries. Blueberries are good, but the beverage does not turn blue

(it is clear, and also tastes kinda "green"). I haven't tried

strawberries, either.It also has the added virtue of being extremely

simple to make!


For the Fruit Vinegar:


Take equal parts (by volume) of vinegar (white or cider), and your

favorite soft fruit.Lightly mash the fruit (stones or large seeds

removed), pour on the vinegar, and cover tightly. Every day for 5 days,

stir the mixture in the morning and at night. After 5 days, pour the

vinegar into a strainer with a bowl beneath. Squeeze the fruit with a

spoon or your hands to extract ALL the juice. Discard the fruit.


To make the Fruit Syrup from your Fruit Vinegar, add equal amounts of

sugar (by volume) as you have fruit vinegar. Stir gently until sugar is

dissolved. This in itself is a good sauce for summer desserts. this will

store for months on the shelf with no refrigeration. Small Lumps may form

due to pectin. This is OK, they will dissolve.


To make Sherbet (ie: Shrub) from your syrup, pour 1/2 oz of syrup over

water and ice to make a total of 8 ozs (that's 1/2 oz syrup to about 7 oz

of cold liquid). Bubbly water makes this even nicer. Adjust the amount of

syrup to taste, of course, but too much will make the flavor waaaaay too






From: 0003900943 at mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: help with recipe

Date: 17 Jun 1996 17:37:29 -0400


>About a month ago there was posted a recipe for a drink using vinegar, grape

>juice, cloves, cinnamon, and, I believe, water.  I tried the recipe and it was

>very good.  Unfortunately, I lost my copy of the recipe.  


>Could someone either e-mail it to me or repost it.




>Stonewall Van Wie III         svanwie at davlin.net


Here it is:


Simmer a bag containing 1 cinnamon stick, 2 cloves, 1/8 tsp. pepper,

and 1/8 tsp. nutmeg in 3 cups of red wine vinegar for 30 minutes.

(An emptied tea bag works well; staple it shut after you fill it with

the spices.)


Mix 1 cup of the vinegar with 1 gallon red grape juice and 1 gallon

water. (If this is too tart for you, you may prefer to use less vinegar,

or more grape juice than these proportions.)


Jessa d'Avondale



Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 18:18:59 -0400

From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Subject: Re: Hot Drinks


Mark Harris wrote:

> Adamantius said:


> Then again, how about egg nog, either commercial or the real stuff, made

> without alcohol? Pretty similar to some of the posset or caudle

> beverages from late period, comparatively nutritious, and fairly

> filling. As with caudles and possets, a meal in a mug, under the right

> circumstances.


> >>>>

> Hmm. I don't think I've got many of these in my files at all. Could

> you give some period recipes and redactions? I'd like to add them

> to my files or create a new file. I'm not sure I would make them

> for myself, but then I don't care for eggnog either.


> What is the differance between a caudle and a posset?


>   Stefan li Rous

>   markh at risc.sps.mot.com


There are no hard and fast differences; probably the easiest, but by no

means foolproof distinction would be to say that a caudle is thickened

with eggs, and a posset with grain (usually oats, but not always). There

are both possets and caudles that contain both, and they may or may not

be sweetened. A posset is more likely to contain milk than a caudle

is.There are various recipes in the Forme of Cury for caudles of various

types, but they seem to have reached the height of their popularity in

the Elizabethan age. They lasted at least until the late 17th century; I

believe Pepys drank them.

A basic caudle would be something like this:


2 cups white wine or ale (a lightly hopped bock is great for this!)

8 egg yolks

1/2 cup sugar

1 whole nutmeg, quartered, or grated nutmeg garnish


Combine all and beat in a large bowl on a double boiler until thick. The

general rule for custards of this type is that it will coat the back of

a spoon when it is done. Some cooks just bring it to 140˚ F and hope for

the best. Remove nutmeg quarters if used. Serve in mugs or bowls with

grated nutmeg if you didn't use the quarters. Serves 4 - 6, depending on

whether you like this sort of thing.


The major departure from proper period technique that I consistently

employ is the beating in a double boiler. Period recipes generally call

for the ingredients to be beaten  together, and then brought to a simmer

until thick. This method produces more curdled lumps than my method,

which is pretty similar to a modern zabaglione or weinschaum. Some

people claim the name "caudle" has common roots with the word "curdle".

I don't believe this, though. I think it's more likely to be connected

to the French "chaud", meaning "hot".


Check sources like Markham, Digby, Plat, Dawson, or  Murrell for

late-period recipes. Possets will be found in the same sources; they

survive today in the form of the various sweet Scottish broses.


Happy bibation, but don't forget the libation...




From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Subject: sca-cooks Re: Re(2): New to List

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:59:36 -0400 (EDT)


> Ok, being the new kid on the block, I'll bite -- what's granatus?


Pomegranate syrup.  The medieval Arabic sources contain a lot of recipes

for drink syrups: mix some kind of flavoring with water and sugar,

reduce it to a syrup, and it should keep unrefrigerated for weeks or

months. To serve, dilute with hot or cold water; ratios aren't

specified in the sources, but I've found that anywhere from 1:4 to 1:10

works, depending on the flavor and the purpose (e.g. weaker is generally

better for fighters coming off the field on a 90-F day).


For granatus in particular, mix 1 or 2 parts pomegranate juice (either

prebottled, as one can find easily in my Russian Jewish neighborhood,

or squeeze your own) with 1 part sugar, bring to a boil, and simmer

uncovered for half an hour or more.

                                      Steve / Joshua



From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Subject: Cold Drinks (Was: Hot Drinks)

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:41:43 -0500 (CDT)


I recently did a "Russian" Event, and served "Honey Water". Although I found

no recipe, I did find referances to it (which I can dig out ((I hope)) if

anyone is frantic for them, off line). The essence of the recipe is that

energetic young serfs would get a big vessel and mix honey in it, and the

complaint I read was that the orange or lemon was "waived over the top",

justifying the name orange (or lemon) Honey Water. This was sold on street

corners in city markets, and amazingly is still sold on street corners in

city markets today in Russia (a friend went there recently on business and

partook). My Redaction:  2 gallons very cold water, 1 cup fine honey, and a

pound of fruit, sliced thinly. Mix well, add ice if you have it, and let

stand on the serving table until someone brings you an empty vessel and

says "can we have some more?"


Lady Aoife Finn of Ynos Mon



From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:47:41 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: SC - Beverages  


       We haven't talked about beverages in a while,  But I was looking

through the current Martha Stewart's Living (a true period source) and

there is an article about Norwegian Saft or fruit drink.  It is made of

varieties of mixed berries and soft fruit, sugar and water.  The fruit is

cooked, strained the sugar added and then it is bottled.  When they open it

they cut the mix with a ratio of one part saft to four parts water.  The

family they interview make a years worth and drink it all year round.

Thought I'd pass this on as it's a good thing.





From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:04:40 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: SC - Re: sc-liqeurs



On a related topic (extracting flavors for drinks), has anyone tried those

fruit vinegar drinks? It's a wonderful combination--beries and vinegar and

sugar. I made a Raspberry Vinegar syrup, Black Raspberry Vinegar syrup, and

a Blueberry Vinegar syrup for that Known World Pennsic Party that was held

in front of the Store next to Chatelaine's Point 2 years ago.



Here's the process:


Take equal amounts of (rasp-blue-black) berries and white vinegar by volume.

Crush the berries. Pour on the vinegar. Cover tightly. Shake gently once a

day for 5 days. At the end of the 5 days, strain well, squeezing out any

excess juice into the liquid. To the liquid, add equal amounts of sugar by

volume. Mix well (you may have to GENTLY heat). Store in colored bottles to

prevent color fade. If using blueberries, the color will be pale green (it

will turn purple over a long time). These can be stored at room temperature

(even at Pennsic)in a corked bottle. Shake well before using.


To use: Pour as a syrup over plain desserts (very good with steamed or bread

puddings). For a drink: put 1/8 cup syrup (according to taste) into a tall

glass. Add 6-8 oz. water or sparkling water.


Raspberries and Blackberries are supposed to be good for coughs and sore

throats. You won't have much trouble getting your kids to drink some of this

when they have a cold. It's like fruit punch (I tell mine it's medieval



Enjoy---it's almost raspberry season


Aoife---cursing the guys who trimmed the trees away from the electric lines

and trampled the wild raspberry canes in the process.



Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:22:45 GMT

From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)

Subject: SC - Re: Help I need drinks!


I keep looking for non-alcoholic drinks that would have been available

in Northern Italy in the early-mid 16th Century. Of course most of

what I come up with goes right back to Platina (until I can put my

non-existant Italian Language skills to work on Christoforo

Messisbugo's "Libro Nova"). Platina does have a few recipes for

medicinal drinks, which are reminiscent of a soup or tea.


He gives some indication about fruit juice drinks, but I cannot be

certain if he means only wine, or he would include fruit juice here as

well. From his section On Grapes: "Some are pleased to liken it to a

berry, like the ivy berry and the elderberry; It is not dissimilar to

these, if only because it is not lacking in vines, and may be easily

made into a drink, if Columella is to be believed." My thoughts would

be he is referring to fruit wines. (An interesting note here is that

Platina next proceeds to give instructions for growing seedless

grapes.) He does go on later in that section to discuss different

types of grapes and the wines produced from them. A bit later in the

section he does say this, however; "Take grapes from the vine and boil

river water until it is reduced to a third and put them together in a

jar that has been well plastered so that no air can get in. Then put

this in a cool place where the sun cannot reach the grapes. And

whenever you want them, you will find them fresh; If you wish, you may

give the same water to a sick person for a sweet water.


From Platina's section "On Citrus"; "No drink is more outstanding than

that of this fruit, of ever importunate stepmothers want to be rid of

someone; they blend herbs and poisonous words...When ground up and

given as a drink in wine, it cures liver and spleen disturbances." He

continues on with may other fruits, usually offering that their juice

is helpful in some way when mixed with wine as a drink.


We do have available to us "On Milk", however. "Goat milks is

considered best because it is very good for the stomach, takes away

obstructions of the liver and loosens the bowels. Next best is sheeps'

milk, and after that cow's milk. Milk is better in spring than in

summer, and in summer better than in autumn or in winder. It should be

drunk on and empty stomach, just as it comes from the udder, or else

slightly warmed; and one should not eat any other food until the milk

has settled int he stomach. In spring or summer it is less harmful

drunk as a first course as curds, for taken after a meal (as is often

the custom) either spoils immediately or draws all other undigested

food with it to the bottom...When drunk either with sugar or with

honey, it is kept from spoiling and should be taken, as I said, on a

clean and empty stomach because it is often easily converted into

those humors that principally seize upon the place where food



Apparently verjuice could be served as a drink, as well. "Verjuice is

very good for an unsettled or hot stomach and those who are thirsty."


Finally, and I know you are all hoping I would finally shut-up, I will

skip over the medicinal-style teas and soups and go to Platina's main

reference to a drink. "On Wine. A supper or lunch without drink is

considered not only disagreeable, but indeed unwholesome, for a

draught for a thirsty man is more pleasing than food for a hungry man,

and more delightful. It is necessary to moisten food and to cool the

lungs, so that what we consume is better worked and digested.

Androchides, writing to Alexander, restraining his intemperance,

called wine the blood of the earth which, when taken internally, has

the virtue of warming and moistening, and when applied externally, of

cooling and drying. Now its virtue is warm and moist, so Homer called

it Aithopa Oinon because it has the element of warmth. Thus it is that

nothing succors weary bodies more readily, if taken in moderation;

Nothing, however, is more harmful if there is no restraint. For

because of drunkenness, men become trembling, weighed down, pallid,

foul with impurities, forgetful, bleary-eyed, sterile, slow to beget,

gray-haired, bald and old before their time. Therefore there must be

some limit, according to the age and season of the year. It is the

opinion of Celsus that as one eats more in winter and drinks less, but

undiluted wine, so in summer by drinking very diluted wine, the thirst

is taken away to keep the body from burning; and as in spring we

combine with our food a thinner drink, so in Autumns, as we enjoy a

little more substantial food, we drink less, but more undiluted wine.

Especially to old folk, a purer draught should be given; To children,

more diluted, and to youth and those of middle age, a medium amount. A

draught should likewise be taken according to the quality of the

region and the body. Those living in cold locales should drink more

undiluted wine. Those in warm places, more diluted; In temperate

places, they should drink in moderation. Those of sanguine

constitution should drink diluted wine, those sorely vexed with bile

should drink their wine unmixed. Those who are phlegmatic should drink

sour wine. Pliny affirms that there are three kinds of wine: the sour,

the sweet and the thin...White wines, if thin, or not too undiluted,

are more easily digested than the red."


He goes on, but I've probably blabbed on too long already. Hopefully

someone will find this stuff as fascinating as I do. :-)


Honos Servio,

Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra



Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:47:02 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts-'unpl


At 2:57 PM -0700 10/16/97, Marisa Herzog wrote:

>...Are there any "period" "sodas"?  Gingerbeer?  Birchbeer? ale... etc?


I think that depends on what you mean by "soda." There are slightly

alcoholic fizzy drinks, such as Kenelm Digby's "Weak Honey Drink," which we

generally refer to as small mead and which is flavored with ginger (the

recipe was published mid 17th century; I know of no reason to believe that

it was a novelty then). My guess is that our sodas evolved from such

drinks. You start with a drink that is fizzy due to CO2 from fermentation,

and at some point (I would guess 19th century) you start putting the CO2 in

directly, which saves the trouble of fermenting and gives you a drink which

is non-alcoholic instead of 1% or so alcohol.


For non-fizzy non-alcoholic drinks, you have sekanjabin and its relatives

(_Manuscrito Anonimo_, a 13th c. Andalusian cookbook, has a whole chapter

of them), possibly Platina's Oxymel (it isn't clear if he drank it, or was

merely showing off his classical erudition), and I suspect other things of

the same sort.


But I doubt that there were any completely non-alcoholic fizzy drinks,

because I can't think of any plausible way they could have made them. But

perhaps someone else can.






Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:10:29 +0000

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts-'unpl


And it came to pass on 18 Oct 97, that david friedman wrote:

> For non-fizzy non-alcoholic drinks, you have sekanjabin and its

> relatives (_Manuscrito Anonimo_, a 13th c. Andalusian cookbook, has

> a whole chapter of them), possibly Platina's Oxymel (it isn't clear

> if he drank it, or was merely showing off his classical erudition),

> and I suspect other things of the same sort.

> David/Cariadoc

> http://www.best.com/~ddfr/


The "Libro de Guisados" has a recipe for spiced sweetened wine,

similar to hippocras, followed by what appears to be a non-alcoholic

version made with water. My one attempt at redacting the water

version was not successful.  It tasted overwhelmingly of cinnamon,

perhaps because I used cassia, but here is a translation, for those

who might care to play around with it.




Three parts cinnamon; two parts cloves; one part ginger, all ground

and passed through a hair sieve, and for one azumbre of white

wine, put an ounce of spices with a pound of honey, well mixed and

passed through a sleeve, the linen being quite thick, and strained

as many times as will make the wine come out clear.




To one azumbre of water, four ounces of honey; you must cast in the

same spices as for the other clarea; you must bring it to a boil with

the honey on the fire, and when it is off the fire you must cast in

the spices.




Recipe #5 is for hippocras, which differs from clarea in that it uses

a mixture of half white wine and half red; also, it is sweetened with

sugar, not honey.


An "azumbre" is a Spanish measurement which is about equal to 2



Ruperto de Nola specifies that *for the measurement of spices*, a

pound equals 12 ounces.  So it seems that, like other precious

substances, spices are measured in troy ounces.


Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper  at  idt.net



Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 20:47:59 PST

From: "Joe Tolbert" <jlt8 at hotmail.com>

Subject: SC - acid



       Here is the recipe for the drink called acid:


6 pounds fruit (crushed, blackberries , plums,grapes,cherries etc)

2 1/2 ounces ( about 45 grams ) TARTARIC ACID

1 Quart cold water

Let stand for 48 hours

Strain. Discard seed etc.

to each cup of juice add 1 cup sugar

stir until sugar is dissolved

let stand a few days before bottling.


source : notebook of Julia E. D. Tolbert born ca 1875


notes : at different times we either used just a cloth or a

       fermentation lock on jug / jar.


     : to serve , dilute with cold ( well ) water to taste

       serve over cracked ice if available.



Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:37:43 -0500 (EST)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Drink suggestions?


Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 10-Dec-97 SC - Drink

suggestions? by jeffrey s heilveil at stude

> As I finalize the dessert feast, I find myself for want of period

> beverages.  Someone said "lemon water" but had no source.  If you would

> care to send me your favorites, I would appreciate it.  I need one or two

> hot and a few cold beverages.


This isn't period in any way shape or form, but does provide a

reasonable substitue for wine:



1 for 1 red/purple and white frozen grape juice concentrate

add 2 cans of water for each can of juice

add red wine vinegar to taste. (one the order of 1 or 2 tbsp per can)


Essentially, the vinegar takes the cloyingly sweet edge off the grape

juice, and you end up with something that tastes similar to

de-alchoholized wine.


It's been well received when I've served it.


toodles, margaret



Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:51:58 -0800 (PST)

From: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at rocketmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Drink suggestions?


- ---Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

> This isn't period in any way shape or form, but does provide a

> reasonable substitue for wine:

> Mix:

> 1 for 1 red/purple and white frozen grape juice concentrate

> add 2 cans of water for each can of juice

> add red wine vinegar to taste. (one the order of 1 or 2 tbsp per can)

> Essentially, the vinegar takes the cloyingly sweet edge off

> the grape juice, and you end up with something that tastes

> similar to de-alchoholized wine.


Diabetics or those who for other reasons might not want the extra

sugars can sorta invert the process (again, no proof of use within

period: my proportions were arrived at under small-batch home



For 32 ounces (approx. one liter) of cool water, add one tablespoon

of balsamic vinegar. Stir well, serve chilled or "as is". To reduce

the "edge" of the vinegar taste, add an ounce or so of grape juice

concentrate, apple juice, grenadine syrup, or similar. Make in

advance and transport in 2 liter disposable soda bottles; or prepare

bottles in advance and add water after arriving on site (reducing

weight to be transported).


Alternatives: different types of vinegar (malt, cider, etc.); heat

before serving; reduce ratio (3 liter bottle, add more water); etc.


(My first intro to balsamic vinegar was to drink about an ounce,

straight, when offered in a tasting glass. The taste intrigued me,

and I began playing around with proportions...)


Adieu -- Amra / Pax ... Kihe / TTFN -- Mike

(al-Sayyid) Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra  /



Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:23:04 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #472


At 2:42 AM -0500 12/12/97, DianaFiona wrote:

>And while the Miscellany's drink section is

>fairly small, I seem to remember that the Middle Eastern cookbooks in his

>cookbook collection have recipes for some of the syrup flavors mentioned

>above. (Am I remembering correctly, Your Grace?)


Manuscrito Anonimo (13th c. Andalusian) has a whole chapter on drinks.





Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 14:39:07 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Drink suggestions? LONG


Here's some suggestions, sorry they are too late for most 12th nights.


#1 Lemonade

Adapted from _The French Cook_ by Francois Pierre de La Varenne [Anr

ed.] For Charls Adams, 1654. 12°. University Microfilms International.

(1653 English translation of the 1651 text).  Page 288-9


<Begin Quote>How to make lemonade

It is made several ways, according to the diversity of the ingredients.

For to make it with jasmine, you must take of it about two handful,

infuse it in two or three quarts of water, and there leave it for the

space of eight or ten hours; then to one quart of water you shal put fix

ounces of sugar; those of orange flowers, of muscade roses & of gilli

flowers are made after the fame way. For to make that of lemon, take

some lemons, cut them and take out the juice, put it in water as above

said, pare another lemon, cut it into slices, put it among this juice,

and some sugar proportionally.

That of orange is made the same way. <End Quote>


1 cup lemon juice

1 cup sugar

2 cups water

additional flowers as desired


Boil the water and sugar together, allow to cool slightly and add the

lemon juice. Serve cold. The very late recipe (1651) for lemonade

includes the addition of flowers, including jasmine, orange blossoms,

muscade roses or gilly-flowers. The flowers should be added as an

infusion and removed before drinking. Remember that the flowers will

carry wild yeast and will ferment your lemonade if it is not kept under

constant refrigeration.


#2 Rose Soda

Adapted from _The 'Libre de Diversis Medicinis' in the Thornton

Manuscript (MS. Lincoln Cathedral, A.5.2)_. Edited by Margaret Sinclair

Ogden. Published for the Early English Text Society by Humphrey Milford,

Oxford University Press. Amen House, E.C. 4. England. 1938. Text circa

early 1400 CE. Page 60


<Begin Quote>Rose Syrup

Tak an vnce or twa of roses & sethe tham in water to the ij partis be

sothen in. Than clene it thurgh clathe & do suger ther-to & sethe it to

it be thikk as hony & vse as thu dose the tother. <End Quote>


My interpretation:

Take an ounce or two of roses and seethe them in twice as much water

until they are soft. The strain them through cloth and add sugar. Reduce

it until it is the thickness of honey. The use it as you do the other

(the honey?).


Also adapted from: Anonymous. _An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the

13th Century. A Complete Translation by Charles Perry of the Arabic

Edition of Ambrosio Huici Miranda with the assistance of an English

Translation by Elise Flemming, Stephen Bloch, Habib ibn Al-Andalusi and

Janet Hinson of the Spanish Translation by Ambrosio Huici Miranda._

©1992 by Charles Perry. Reprinted in A Collection of Medieval and

Renaissance Cookery Books by Friedman, David (Sir Cariadoc of the Bow)

Published privately. Page A-73


<Begin Quote>Syrup of Fresh Roses, and the Recipe for Making It

Take a ratl of fresh roses, after removing the dirt from them, and cover

them with boiled water for a day and night, until the water cools and

the roses fall apart in the water. Clean it and take the clean part of

it and add to a ratl of sugar. Cook all this until it takes the form of

a syrup. Drink an uqiya of this with two of hot water.... <End Quote>


1 tabelspoon rose extract

2 oz dried rosehips

1 pound sugar

water to one gallon


Rose extract can be found at Indian grocery stores. Bring sugar and

rosehips to a gentle boil in 1 or 2 quarts of water until the rosehips

have given the solution a pleasant pink color. Skim out all the pieces

of rosehips (strain if necessary). Add water to one gallon. Allow

solution to cool to 70 degrees, and add rose extract and champagne

yeast. Stir. Bottle quickly. Allow to stay at room temperature for about

3-5 days then keep refregerated.


#3 Lavender Drink

Adapted from Anonymous. _An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the 13th

Century. A Complete Translation by Charles Perry of the Arabic Edition

of Ambrosio Huici Miranda with the assistance of an English Translation

by Elise Flemming, Stephen Bloch, Habib ibn Al-Andalusi and Janet Hinson

of the Spanish Translation by Ambrosio Huici Miranda._ ©1992 by Charles

Perry. Reprinted in A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookery

Books by Friedman, David (Sir Cariadoc of the Bow) Published privately.

Page A-74


<Begin Quote> Syrup of Lavender (Halhal)

Take a ratl of lavender and cook it in water to cover, until its

substance comes out. Then take the clear part and add it to a ratl of

honey, and cook all this until it is in the form of a syrup. Drink an

uqiya and a half of this with three of hot water....<End Quote>


Simmer equal volumes of lavender and sugar in water, dilute for



# 4 Spiced Pomegranate Drink

Adapted from Anonymous. _An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the 13th

Century. A Complete Translation by Charles Perry of the Arabic Edition

of Ambrosio Huici Miranda with the assistance of an English Translation

by Elise Flemming, Stephen Bloch, Habib ibn Al-Andalusi and Janet Hinson

of the Spanish Translation by Ambrosio Huici Miranda._ ©1992 by Charles

Perry. Reprinted in A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookery

Books by Friedman, David (Sir Cariadoc of the Bow) Published privately.

Page A-74


<Begin Quote> Syrup of Pomegranate

Take a ratl of sour pomegranates and another of sweet pomegranates, and

add their juice to two ratls of sugar, cook all this until it takes the

consistency of syrup, and keep until needed. <End Quote>


And also from Maimonides, Moses (1135-1204 CE). _Maqalah Fi Bayan Ba'D

Al-A'Rad Wa-A;-Jawab 'Anha Ma'Amar Ha-Hakra'Ah_. edited and translated

by Leibowitz, JO and Marcus, S. _Moses Maimonides on the Causes and

Symptoms (Maqalah Fi Bayan Ba'D Al-A'Rad Wa-A;-Jawab 'Anha Ma'Amar

Ha-Hakra'Ah [and] De Causis Accidentium)_ Published by University of

California Press, Berkeley, CA. 1974. ISBN 0-520-02224-6 LCCCN 71-187873


page 139

<Begin Quote>...then leave the bath and partake of a brew prepared with

pomegranate seeds, sugar, many spices, and a touch of hot spices like

clove and mace, or a syrup of rose or sorrel, with water of oxtongue,...

<End Quote>


Spiced Pomegranate Syrup

1 quart of Pomegranate juice

4 cups white sugar (or honey)

Possible additions include: clove, mace, borage, mint, citron leaves,

spikenard, lemon peel, and canel or cinnamon.


Warm the pomegranate juice over medium heat. Add the sugar, stirring to

dissolve completely. Keep the mixture at a simmer for about 2 hours,

stirring occasionally. When it is suitably thickened, allow to cool

before bottling. Dilute about one part syrup to five parts water. The

resulting drink will be more brownish than the original red of

pomegranate. The Tacinum Sanitatis recommends eating sour pomegranates

with honey to neutralize the dangers to health, so use the honey recipe

if you want to replicate European diets.


#5 Cold Almond Milk

Adapted from _An Ordinance Of Pottage: An Edition of the Fifteenth

Century Culinary Recipes in Yale University's MS Beinecke 163_. Edited

by Constance Hieatt.


1 cup water

1/2 cup sugar or clarified honey

1/2 teaspoon salt

1/2 cup blanched finely ground almonds

1/8 cup wine (use verjus, pomegranate juice or omit for completely

non-alcoholic beverage)

toasted bread


Place one cup of water into a sauce pan and bring to a boil over medium

heat. Add sugar (or honey) and salt. Stir quickly so the sugar (or

honey) dissolves without burning. When dissolved, remove from heat and

allow to cool. Add finely ground almonds to the sugar water and mix. Add

wine and mix again. Toast bread, then brush it with a little wine and

allow the bread to dry. Serve cool with toast.



Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:55:49 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - rose sekanjabin/was coffee and tea


Both Crystal and Cat seem to be using "sekanjabin" at least part of the

time as a generic term for a family of syrup drinks. As Crystal points out,

the recipe in _Manuscrito Anonimo_ is titled "Simple Sekanjabin." On the

other hand, the chapter it is in contains lots and lots of recipes for

drinks of the same general sort (make a syrup of sugar or honey or

something similar, immerse some source of flavor in it, let it cool, dilute

in hot or cold water), and none of the others is called "sekanjabin."


The only uses of the term I have evidence for are sugar+vinegar and

honey+vinegar (_Manuscrito Anonimo_) and sugar+vinegar+mint (modern

Persian). So while I don't know exactly where the line is drawn between

"sekanjabin" and other drinks in the family, I don't think the term applies

to all of them. It seems to have been a very familiar drink in period--one

of the period recipes refers to something as "the sekanjabin of dishes."


If anyone has more information on the terminological issue, please provide.






Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:20:06 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: SC - water/was coffe and tea at events


Ron Martino Jr (Yumitori)wrote:


> > As far as period substitutions for coffee and tea, I agree that we should try

> > to introduce our people to the delights of period beverages, but to offer

> > water as a substitute is cold and horrenduous to think upon.

> > Mordonna DuBois

>         Water? Horrendous?


Well, yes. For the class of people we are trying to emulate, plain water

was something you drank in desperation or penace.


I spent some time trying to document plain water as a beverage,

something that would have been served at table. The most they thought

about water was as something to dilute wine with. Adding water to wine

was a common practice dating from Roman times, and was described in many

medieval books on manners and in Baccaccio's The Decameron, "And when

they descended to inspect the huge, sunlit courtyard, the cellars

stocked with excellent wines, and the well containing abundant supplies

of fresh, ice-cold water, they praised [their lodgings] even more."


An Italian food and health manual from the 14th century recommends water

in the following fashion: "Warm Water (Aqua Calida) Nature: Cold and

humid in the second degree. Optimum: Lukewarm and sweet. Usefulness: It

cleans the stomach lining. Dangers: It weakens the mechanism of

digestion. Neutralization of the dangers: By mixing it with rose water."

Although the text describes the water being taken internally, the

accompanying picture shows a woman having her feet bathed.


I'm sure the poor drank both spring and rain water, but it wasn't a

habit people who could afford better(different) seemed to pick up.


Besides, I don't know where you live, but here in the west, we

frequently camp in places where the water is undrinkable. If I'm gonna

haul all my beverages in, the only water is usually for gatorade for



Crystal of the Westermark



Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:26:29 -0600

From: mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com (Michael F. Gunter)

Subject: SC - Water to wine


> I'm not arguing that watered wine was drunk in our time period, but I

> am curious as to how your quote backs up your statement.  I read it as

> "they decended to inspect the courtyard, the cellars, and the well."

> Is there more to the quote that's not here?  I'm sorry, I just have a

> hard time believing that water was not drunk by the nobility at all,

> perhaps that misconception is the cause of my confusion?


> Conchobar


There's a statement in a chronicle during the 100 Years War that the English

army was besieged in (Calais?) and supplies were running so low that the

nobility was complaining they were forced to drink plain water.


They drank water but they didn't like it.





Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:57:00 EST

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly_nick at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Water to wine


Diseases and standing water make common bedfellows, even in modern

times. The avoidance of plain water is arguable (not strongly) from

this standpoint.  No know pathogens can survive in beer even at weak 3%.

Watered wine would approximate this alcohol content at about three parts

water and 1 part wine.  No point here, just thinking out lound to the






Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:16:34 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: Lemon syrup (was SC - o


Modern Lemonade is not documented in Europe untill c.1651 when it

appears in La Varrene, a French cookbook widely translated into other

European lanugages including English. La Varrene's version inlcudes

other flavoring besides sugar and lemons, mostly flower petals, jasmine

and such.


The Syrup of Lemon is resonable for European personas if you can accept

the reasoning presented in the silly string about how sekanajabin got to

Ireland suggested earlier this month.


Crystal of the Westrmark



Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:44:29 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: Lemon syrup (was SC - oxymel/hydromel/etc)


At 9:01 AM -0500 2/5/98, Woeller D wrote:

>Thank you very much. Would this lemonade would be perioid? Period?



The lemon drink is 13th c. Spanish Muslim.


>Would it be more or less period or medieval if I made it with



There are recipes in the same book for other drinks of the same general

sort made with honey, but I don't remember a lemon one.


>Is the minted sekanjabin served hot or cold, in period? Is

>the version served at Pennsic, iced, and of the minted  variety period

>or perioid?


Good question. That chapter of the book specifies hot or cold water for

some of the drinks. The fragmentary sekanjabin recipe only mentions hot. It

is served cold in modern Iranian cuisine. My guess is that it was served

both ways in period, but I don't know for sure.


Brid writes in response to the same post:


"I believe all the recipes from the Andalusion cooking source are safely and

well in period, so aside from being middle-eastern (as opposed to Euro)..."


Except, of course, that Andalusia is in Europe and west of most of it.

While most of Europe is a wilderness full of Nazarene barbarians, there are

civilized patches.


Probably "Islamic" would be a better term than Middle-Eastern, although

that runs into the problem that al-Islam contained lots of non-muslims.

Some of the recipes in _Manuscrito Anonimo_ have titles that imply a Jewish

or Christian connection.






Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:59:54 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - medieval beverages


Mark.S Harris wrote:

> Does anyone have any suggestions for non-beer (blech!, we’ve discussed

> this, let’s not do it again), non-sugared type medieval drinks?


I believe Roman soldiers drank dilute vinegar (Posca?). I don't know if it

was also used in the Middle ages.






Subject: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/beverages-NA-msg.text

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 98 16:57:47 MST


To: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at msgphx1>


So excited to see the Sekanjabin recipe.  We used to drink it on hot

summer days in Iran.  So refreshing.  A nice touch is to add about a

tablespoon or two of grated cucumber at time of serving (small seeds of

English cucumber is OK, but remove the seeds of the regular salad



Another drink recipe from Iran is a yogurt drink (not for the timid!).

Mix 1/3 cup of plain yogurt with a pinch of salt and pepper and dried

mint leaves if available.  Add 2/3 cup seltzer water, serve with ice.

Again can add grated cucumber if desired.  Enjoy.



Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:58:23 -0400

From: "Alma Johnson" <chickengoddess at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Alternative Drinks


>How difficult would it be to add Persian mint drink or some other period

>non-alcoholic drink instead of/with the tea and such? This still gives

>folks who want the old standbys while introducing some period items. It

>also could be done with a minimal extra effort and cost.

>Stefan li Rous


It is very easy indeed to do such a thing.  About 2 or 3 years go, I served

sekanjabin (see Cariadoc's Miscellany) with the middle eastern course of a

"crusader" style feast (European course, ME course).  It was part of a

series of sharbat syrups I prepared.  I also served a honey almond, a

tamarind, rose lemon, and jallab syrups (all homemade except for jallab).  I

made it into a learning project for my diners by supplying each table with

an assortment of syrups, pitchers of water and ice, and spoons, then

supplying them with instructions on mixing the syrups into drinks.  Lots of

people commented on how much fun it was, and though I would never NOT serve

tea (after all, I'm in Meridies), I feel more comfortable now considering

alternative beverages to supplement tea and water.  Plus, because you make

concentrated syrups, they can be made well in advance of the feast, so even

for the labor intensive preparations, they don't become a larger issue than

they're worth.

I could never convince the little old foreign ladies at the farmers market

that no, I wasn't mistaken and, yes, I DID want to buy those tamarind pods.


Rhiannon Cathaoir-mor



Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:37:47 -0700

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - ovens and tamarind


At 1:42 PM +0000 6/28/98, Ian van Tets wrote:

>Forgive (and ignore) me if this has already been done (I'm a bit

>behind) but Cariadoc, did you ever post that tamarind drink recipe

>you teased us with?  I have a weakness for tamarind and would love to

>see this.


I don't think that was me--maybe my apprentice. But since you want a

tamarind drink recipe, here is the one from the Andalusian cookbook. A ratl

is about a pound, an Uqiya an ounce--but as in the Troy system, there are

12 uqiyas to a ratl.


Syrup of Tamarind


Take a ratl of tamarind and steep in five ratls of water, throw away the

dregs immediately and add the clarified water to a ratl of sugar. Cook all

this until it takes the form of a syrup. Drink two ûqiyas of it in three of

cold water. It is beneficial in jaundice, and takes it away easily; it cuts

bilious vomit and thirst, awakens the appetite to eat, and takes the

bitterness of food out of the mouth.


we don't have a final worked out version, but our notes on it are:


Take 1

Tamarind 6 oz pods      sugar 3/4 c

water quart


Chopped up pods, husks, et. al. Steeped in hot, but not boiling, water for

15 minutes. Strained through cheesecloth. Added sugar. Simmered for 25



Take 2

Tamarind 8 oz, packaged, compressed     sugar 1c

water 5 c


Steeped in hot water 15  minutes, strained through cheesecloth. Add sugar.

Simmered for 30 minutes, cooled.


Diluted both versions 2 parts syrup to 3 parts cold water.


Comments: Version 2 was darker, purply, stronger flavor, more tart. Version

1 was tan color. Both tasted tart, sweet sour, fruity, smoky.


Could simmer longer to get a thicker syrup.






Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:15:59 -0500

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Drinking Water


>As for drinking plain water, yes it was not common. But there is

>some evidence that it was drunk, although probably not when they

>could get something else.


For a study of water in history see Water in England by Dorothy Hartley.





Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:16:41 -0700

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Questions on Sekainjabin


At 4:52 PM -0400 4/21/99, Aelfwyn at aol.com wrote:

>I have made and enjoyed this syrup several times. Used it as part of our last

>feast, too. Now that my various mint plants are popping up, which type of

>"mint" is most correct


All kinds of mint are equally correct--until someone provides evidence of

what varieties existed in period.


>(I'm eyeing my chocolate mint plants just now)?


Except for chocolate mint.






Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT)

From: Vicki Strassburg <taltos at primenet.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Questions on Sekainjabin


On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 Aelfwyn at aol.com wrote:

> Now that my various mint plants are popping up, which type of

> "mint" is most correct and has anyone tried experimenting with other mints

> (I'm eyeing my chocolate mint plants just now)?


I can't tell you what is most correct, but I *can* tell you what I've used

and the results.


Peppermint - a bit overpowering but very refreshing

Spearmint - pretty much the same as the peppermint

Chocolate mint - strange! but yes, I'd make it again

Apple mint - by far my favorite, very light on the mint with apple


Pineapple mint - so-so

Lemon mint - too tart for my tastes

Cat mint - :-) I'll let you know (it's not quite ready to pluck yet)


As you can tell, we have a variety of mints in the garden. There's

probably a couple I've forgotten because we tend to go through a lot of

sekunhabin here.





Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:14:50 -0700 (PDT)

From: Vicki Strassburg <taltos at primenet.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Questions on Sekainjabin


> What sorts of wine vinegar have you used?  Have you ever made it with

> plain white vinegar?  I've had it as a clear liquid, and think it might

> be made that way by some people.  I do have some red wine vinegar in the

> cabinet.  It would probably give a pinkish color, wouldn't it?  What

> about cider vinegar?  That's used in the Virginian 'switchel' 17th C.


I forgot about this in my last post! After having had other sekunjabins, I

will never go back to the plain vinegars. The subtlety of all the others

just leave the white vinegar in the dust. Red wine vinegar worked great,

but needed strong mints to go with it (the peppermint and spearmint were

wonderful). The white wine vinegar was a spicier taste. The queen of all

my concoctions, though, was apple mint with apple cider vinegar. Wow. It

had all the tang of regular sekunjabin, but the apple flavor just danced

around the roof of my mouth. Yup - only the roof because it positively

floated it was so light. (Cut down on the sweetners for this one, though.)

I have also played with honey, sugar, raw sugar and soon stevia. The raw

sugar overpowered anything else. The honey made it heavier and

(understandably) thicker so it neded more dilution.


Bottoms up! ~Maedb



Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:54:34 -0500

From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Questions on Sekainjabin


When I make sekainjabin I use cider vinegar and Celestial Seasonings mint

magic tea bags.  Sometimes I vary the flavor by adding a rasberry leaf tea

bag or a Bengal Spice tea bag which has cinnamon, cardamon and ginger.  It

has gotten good reviews.





Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:35:56 -0700

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Sekanjabin +


At 6:55 AM -0400 5/3/99, Philip & Susan Troy wrote:

>Nancy Santella wrote:

>> I was out in the swamp picking mint for Queens Rapier, Sat., and I was

>> planning how much Sekanjabin syrup to make when the thought accured to me,

>> what if you did the same thing with rose petals?  Would you have a useable

>> rose syrup?


>> Anna

>I guess it would depend on whether you did it with vinegar, as with

>sekanjabin. I know you can buy rose syrup in most Middle Eastern

>groceries, and it's probably made pretty much the same way. I guess what

>I'm getting at is how much of the sekanjabin process you're talking

>about applying. Are we talking about just making a syrup cooked with

>rose petals, an extremely sweet rose "tea"? It _ought_ to work pretty well.


>From the 13th c. Andalusian cookbook:


The Recipe for Making a Syrup of Julep


Take five ratls of aromatic rosewater, and two and a half of sugar, cook

all this until it takes the consistency of syrups. Drink two ûqiyas of this

with three of hot water. Its benefits: in phlegmatic fever; it fortifies

the stomach and the liver, profits at the onset of dropsy, purifies and

lightens the body, and in this it is most extraordinary, God willing.


Syrup of Fresh Roses, and the Recipe for Making It


Take a ratl of fresh roses, after removing the dirt from them, and cover

them with boiled water for a day and a night, until the water cools and the

roses fall apart in the water. Clean it and take the clean part of it and

add to a ratl of sugar. Cook all this until it takes the form of a syrup.

Drink an ûqiya of this with two of hot water; its benefits are at the onset

of dropsy, and it fortifies the stomach and the liver and the other

internal organs, and lightens the constitution; in this it is admirable.


A Recipe for Making It by Repetition


Take the same, a ratl of roses or more, and place it in water to cover it,

boiling for a day and a night. Then take out the roses that are in the

water and throw them away, and go with the same quantity of fresh roses,

which are to be covered likewise with this water, after boiling it a second

time, and leave this also a day and a night. Throw away these roses

likewise, and put in others and treat them as before, and continue doing

this for ten days or more. Its benefit and the strength of its making are

solely in the manner of repeating. Then clarify the water of roses and add

to it as much sugar, and cook it until it takes the form of a syrup. It

reaches the limit in thinning and moistening the constitution, God willing.


Syrup of Dried Roses


Take a ratl of dried roses, and cover with three ratls of boiling water,

for a night, and leave it until they fall apart in the water. Press it and

clarify it, take the clear part and add it to two ratls of white sugar, and

cook all this until it is in the form of a syrup. Drink an ûqiya and a half

of this with three of water. Its benefits: it binds the constitution, and

benefits at the start of dropsy, fortifies the other internal organs, and

provokes the appetite, God willing.






Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:43:11 -0700

From: Edwin Hewitt <brogoose at pe.net>

To: sca-arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>,

       "sca-caid at rogues.net" <sca-caid at rogues.net>

Subject: Chicory Water


It is my understanding that Chicory, Chichorium Intybus, is native to

Europe, and was used widely during the middle ages.  Coffee, by comparison

was not introduced into Europe until the 1600's.  From the resources I have

looked at, it is now growing wild in the South and East of the US, but most

chicory is imported to the U.S  from France.  Other varieties include Belgian

and Italian Chicory used for salads.  In France, Chicory is grown for its leafy

shoots, called Witloof.  A particular variety, Magdeburg, is cultivated for its

roots, and it is roasted for use in coffee.   From my limited research, I am

unclear as to whether Chicory is the same as Endive or if it is a near relative.


Chicory water is referred to in "Don Quixote" by Miguel de Cervantes (circa:

1600 A.D.).  In part I, section VII after the joust with the windmills, Sancho

and Don Quijote sleep.  Sancho sleeps better than Don Quijote because he,

"was full of something more substantial than Chicory water."  In a footnote

in my translation by Walter Starke, it is mentioned that chicory water was

"a popular cooling drink for that age."  I am curious as to how it was made.

Was it made from the roasted and ground roots like today's coffee additive?

Or, was it made from the greens like tea?  Has anyone heard of it?  In

Spanish Chicory is called Achicoria.





Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:04:13 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lemonade was Easy cordial recipe request


I thought you might appreciate this early recipe

for lemonade taken from The French Cook.

It may in fact be the earliest printed recipe for

Lemonade in English. The recipe is in fact older than

what OED gives for their earliest quote which dates

from only 1662.


How to Make Lemonade.

It is made several waies, according to the diversity of the

ingredients. For to make it with Jasmin, you must take of it about

two handful, infuse it in two or three quarts of water the space

of eight or ten houres; then to one quart of water you shall put

six ounces of sugar. Those of ornage flowers, of muscade roses,

and og gelliflowers, are made after the same way. For to make

that of Lemon, take some lemons, cut them, and take out the juice,

put it in water as abovesaid. Pare another lemon, cut it into slices,

put it among this juice, and some sugar proportionably.

That of orange is made the same way.

Francois Pierre La Varenne. The French Cook. 1653. pp. 238-239.


Johnnae llyn Lewis



Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:38:18 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Quince Syrup

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


The Laimon-Safarjali syrup (safarjali means quince, guess what laimon

means...) is for beverages. I made it for the pseudo-Iron Chef feast

in 2000. It was my second feast.


All the recipes are on my website



But i've included the recipe for the Quince syrup below.






Here's the text from my web site:




Laimun Safarjali

Lemon-Quince-Rosewater Syrup Beverage


When I was shopping for ingredients for the feast, I went to a

Persian food store. I searched the shelves in hopes of finding a

(synthetic) musk flavored extract or syrup called for in a couple

recipes. Much to my surprise, I found a bottle of Lemon-Quince syrup

from an American Persian food supplier. I bought it to taste test. It

was delicious. My homemade syrup was even more delicious.


Original Recipe:

One part quince juice and three parts filtered syrup, in both of

which you have boiled pieces of quince until nearly done. They are

taken up, and the syrup takes it consistency. To every pound of the

whole you add two ounces of lemon juice. Then return the pieces of

quince; they improve the consistency. It is scented with musk,

saffron and rose-water and taken up and used.


From al-Kitab Wasf al-At'ima al-Mu'tada

(The Book of the Description of Familiar Foods)


Complete text translated and introduced by Charles Perry,

in Medieval Arab Cookery, p. 442-443.


My Recipe:

2 dozen quinces

5 - 8 pounds granulated white sugar

juice of 12 lemons

several capsful rosewater, Cortas brand

(i forget to add the saffron)

(i never found edible synthetic musk)


1. Cut quinces in quarters. Core and remove flower and stem ends. Cut

further into eighths (that is, each quince is ultimately cut in eight



2. Put quinces in deep kettle, cover with water and turn fire to high.


3. Pour in 5 lb. sugar. Stir well.


4. When liquid begins to boil, reduce fire to medium and continue to

simmer, stirring frequently so bottom of pan doesn't burn.


5. Do NOT mash the  quinces. I did and it was a BIG mistake. I did

not get enough syrup, although the mashed quinces were delicious.


6. When liquid has thickened and has become a lovely amber-rose color

- many hours later - remove from heat and allow to cool.


7. When cool enough to manage, put a strainer over a deep bowl, and

begin scooping out quinces and liquid. Allow to strain without

mashing or pressing fruit. A jelly bag would probably work - although

you'd probably need several of them. Remove resulting liquid to

another large container.


8. After you've drained the quinces well, and syrup has cooled, check

the consistency and flavor. It should be somewhat syrupy and have a

tart-sweet flavor.

- It doesn't need to be clear. In fact, the original recommends

having some fruity bits in it, so you can add some mashed quince at

this point.

- If the syrup isn't sweet enough, put in a kettle on high fire, add

more sugar, stir well, bring to boil, then reduce to high simmer, and

cook just long enough for sugar to dissolve.


9. When syrup is thoroughly cooled, add lemon juice and rose water.


10. To drink, fill a pitcher about 2/3 full of water and add a bit of

syrup. Taste. Add more syrup until you are satisfied (the commercial

syrup, much denser than mine, is diluted 1 to 5). It should have a

sweet-tart flavor, redolent of quinces and roses.



Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:30:07 -0400

From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period beverages

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Greetings oh Odd one!


From Anon. Andalusian:


Syrup of Tamarind

Take a ratl of tamarind and steep in five ratls of water, throw away the

dregs immediately and add the clarified water to a ratl of sugar. Cook all

this until it takes the form of a syrup. Drink two ûqiyas of it in three of

cold water. It is beneficial in jaundice, and takes it away easily; it cuts

bilious vomit and thirst, awakens the appetite to eat, and takes the

bitterness of food out of the mouth.


Not redacted, but I am fairly certain it is what Mistress Chtistianna was

referring to. I once played with the Syrup of Carrots. It was ....

interesting. Shoulda had a V8.




>> Here are the recipes from the Miscellany, none of them calls for mint.  I

>> have also had syrups of violet (wonderful), rose (ok, but could get

>> cloying), carrot, tamarind, and others.

>> Experiment and have fun!

>> Christianna

> Tamarind??  Got the recipe??? Tamarind is great stuff.  I sometimes just

> buy the raw tamarind and put it in the fruit bowl on the table.  Folks walk

> by, look, ask, try it as they are walking away, then come back for

> more!

> Olwen



Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:06:02 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Brighid's pomegranate drink recipe

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


On 13 Oct 2003, at 20:13, Elizabeth A Heckert wrote:

>   If Brighid ni Chiarain (apologies if I botched the spelling) is still

> on the list, could I bother you for the recipe for the lovely pomegranate

> drink that you had at the redactng party (a year or more ago) at

> Mistresses Anarra and Ana's house?


No problem.  It was an approximation of the pomegranate syrup in the

Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook.  That calls for pomegranate juice to be

cooked down with sugar into a syrup, which i presumably later diluted

into a drink.


Since pomegranate juice is expensive around here (and is not always

available), I used pomegranate syrup (aka pomegranate molasses) and a

sugar syrup.


The "recipe":


Buy some pomegranate syrup (I used Cortas bran)


Make a simple syrup of 2 parts sugar to one part water.


Mix 6 tablespoons of pomegranate syrup with 1 cup of simple syrup, and

Add enough water to bring the total to 2 quarts.  Stir well.  Taste and

adjust as necessary.


I served this at a feast and a dayboard, and it was very popular, though it

surprised a few gentles who mistook it for iced tea.  It seems to occupy the

same flavor niche as lemonade -- a sweet/tart fruit drink.


Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann

Barony of Settmour Swmp, East Kingdom



Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:38:23 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Aloxa, a honey drink

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


We've had a lot of OT posts in the past few days, and several of those have

been from me (bad Brighid, no bizcocho!). By way of atonement, here's a

small segment from my new translation project.


La aloxa es cierto genero de agua miel que se haze con especias calientes,

bevese en tiempo de estio, porque dizen que refresca, y no se engañan

mucho en ello, porque aunque sea verdad que por parte de las especias y la

miel calienta, empero por la mucha porcion de agua refresca, y las especias

hazen penetrar la agua por todo el cuerpo, por que se abren los caños y

poros del cuerpo, y ansi casualmente de per accidens refrescan, aunque de

suyo calienten.


Aloxa is a certain kind of honey water which is made with hot spices; it is

drunk in summertime, because they say that it refreshes, and they are not

very wrong about that, because although it is true that the spices and the

honey heat it up, however, the much larger portion of water refreshes, and

the spices cause the water to penetrate throughout the body, because they

open the channels and the pores of the body, and thus coincidently and per

accidens [Latin for "by accident"] they refresh, although by themselves they

cause heat.


Francisco Nuñez de Oria, "Aviso de Sanidad" (Advice on Health),  Madrid, 1572



Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom



Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:35:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Aloxa, a honey drink

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


-----Original Message-----

From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>


Cool! Is there anything in the MS about what "hot spices" might be

generally considered to be, or do we just go with what we like? What

spices were popular in Spain at that time?






There is no recipe given, and no spices specified for this drink.  It

is a health manual, not a cookbook. Elsewhere in the book, it mentions

that cinnamon, cloves, and galingale are all hot.  You can get an idea

of popular spices in 16th century Spain by looking at my translation of

de Nola, especially recipes 2 through 6.



Personally, I'd use the spices which de Nola recommends for clarea and

hypocras -- cinnamon, cloves, and ginger -- and proportion according to



Brighid ni Chiarain



Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:54:49 -0500

From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mts.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:


> Actually, Urtatim wrote:

>>> Can anyone recommend sources for 16th century non-alcoholic

>>> beverages? I'm not a brewer and won't be making ale or cider  

>>> between now and then.

> I looked in Digby. If i were a brewer or vintner, i'd be happy. And

> i've never seen so many mead and mead-like beverage recipes in one

> place (well, other than a book about making mead). Digby is all about

> fermentation, baby.

> I just wish that there was evidence of sugar syrups! I mean, there's

> plenty of evidence for the use of sugar, plenty of evidence for

> cooking fruit in sugar... but no darn fruit syrups in Digby or any of

> the other 16th and early 17th C. books i have.


There is a lemonade recipe in _The French Cook_ 1651 (getting a little

late, I know) by Francois Pierre La Varenne.


I don't have the original handy, but my scribbled notes say:

1 cup lemon juice

1 cup sugar

2 cups water

flowers if desired (jasmine, orange blossoms, muscade roses, or gilly



Boil the water and sugar together, allow to cool slightly and add the

lemon juice.





Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:56:47 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Daniel Phelps wrote:

> While I seem to have misplaced my copy of it, Karen Hess's work  

> "Martha Washington's Book of Cookery" might be worth a look.

> Daniel


Heresy, Milord, heresy to have mislaid so valuable a text.

Mine is here at hand.

Let's see.. lots on wines, recipes for wines,

discussions of beer and ale, verjuice, There is a bottled lemon water  


Mention that Ingatestone Hall had piped supply of 'sweet'

spring water on page 17.


Beginning on page 363 there is a section on SIRRUP recipes and

Hess notes that these were clearly medicinal, but that they would have been

used to provide cooling drinks in warm weather. These include recipes

for sirrups of violets, roses, etc. Lots of steeping of petals in water.

You could substitute bottled syrups I would think.

The manuscripts are dated circa 1580-1625,.





Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:12:04 -0700 (PDT)

From: Tom Vincent <tom.vincent at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I recall seeing some drinks for the infirmed listed in either  

Viandier of Taillevent or A Sip Through Time


   Here's one from the discredited Fabulous Feasts:


   Spicy Pomegranate Drink Medieval


   Author/Submitted by:

Servings: 1

Categories: Fruits / Medieval / Non-Alcoholic Beverages


1.50 c Water

1.00 c Sugar

0.50 ts Cinnamon

0.25 ts Nutmeg

0.13 ts Ginger

4.00 ea Whole cloves

0.50 ea Unblemished lemon

1.00 qt Fresh pomegranate juice -OR-

6.00 ea To 8 medium-sized pomegranates, skinned, the pith removed, seeds, squeezed, pulverized and strained



In a large enameled pot combine water, sugar, and all spices. Bring  

to a boil and gently simmer for 7 minutes. Remove the whole cloves.  

Finely grate the lemon peel and reserve it. Squeeze the juice from  

the lemon. Add the pomegranate juice and lemon juice to the hot  

spiced fluid. Bring to slow boil, then simmer for 2 minutes. Serve  

warm with a garnish of grated lemon peel for each glass. Or serve  

cool, garnishing each glass with peel and a small wedge of fresh  

lemon. From _Fabulous Feasts- Medieval Cookery and Ceremony_ by  

Madeleine Pelner Cosman George Braziller, Inc. ISBN 0-8076-0832-7  

Typos by Jeff Pruett Submitted By STEPHEN HAFFLY On 05-15-95 (2015)





   Of course, you can always make a Medieval wine drink with that  

neutered wine stuff.





Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:17:43 -0500

From: "Katherine Throckmorton" <kthrockmorton at lycos.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Urtatim wrote:

> Can anyone recommend sources for 16th century non-alcoholic

> beverages? I'm not a brewer and won't be making ale or cider between

> now and then.


To the best of my knowledge there isn't a whole lot out there.  There  

is the hydromel  from the _Kog Bog_, which is Danish.  The book was  

published in 1616, so the recipie is just slightly OOP.  Other than  

that the only things that come to mind is some stuff from the  

_Domestoii_,a 16th century Muscovoy text, which basically involves  

cooking the alcohol out of mead and then adding fruit juice.  I can  

type in the _Domestoii_ information if you are interested.  In the  

meantime here is the one from the _Kog Bog_:


White mead to make that will be used soon

Take one measure white honey and eight measures fresh spring water.  

Let this seethe together 4 hours and scum it well. You must not make  

it too thick. Let it then stand to cool. Thereafter sieve it through  

a Lutendrancks bag [straining bag] with herbs, cinnamon, cardamom,  

cubeb, galingale, grains of paradise, ginger, long pepper and cloves.

My redaction:

1 cup honey

12 cups water

1 stick cinnamon in pieces

3 whole cardomons

3-5 cloves

1 inch piece peeled fresh or whole dry ginger

2-3 grains of paradise


Simmer honey and water for 4 hours adding more water if it starts to  

become thick.  Remove from heat, add spices and strain immediately.  

Let cool and serve.


Notes: I use more water than the original recipe as so as to make a  

less sweet drink. I haven’t been able to find long pepper or  

galingale so my redaction doesn’t include them.  This should be drunk  

soon after being made, after a couple of days it can start to  

ferment. If you wish to store it, it can be refrigerated for 2-3 days



Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:43:17 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I checked the new edition of La Varenne by Scully.

There's Lemonade and Orangeade as well as a selection

of Italian Waters. These are in the French Confectioner.


I suppose bottled spring or still waters of choice would be an

option also. Or let everyone BYOB or just provide chilled sodas with

ice and finely chopped ice/snow. Summer requires ice these days.

The USA seems to have provided

itself with a multitude of drinks that go far beyond what the rest of

the world offers. This question of ice or no ice and how cold is a

can of chilled soda is still something one encounters in England today.

I know I turned down a lot of warm cans of sodas on this last trip.





Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:19:43 -0500

From: "Emelyne Wyote" <emelyne_wyote at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] 16th C non-alcoholic drinks?

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


There are a few things from Thomas Elyot's 1547 Castel of Helth which might

work, although people MIGHT consider these to be more medicines than

beverages in some cases.  He does talk a lot about diet and the effects of

various foods on the humors, so maybe you can pass this off as a period

source for some foodstuffs.


He mentions oximell, which is 1 part vinegar to 2 parts honey, and  

from what I can tell boiled into 4 parts water:


Oximell is, where to one parte of vyneger is put double to moche of hony,

foure times as much of wter, and that beynge boyled unto the thyrde parte,

and cleane skymened with a fether...



He also mentions making a peach syrup:


Of the iuyce of them [peaches] may be made a syrope, very holsome against

the distemperaunce of choler...



He also talks about orange juice mixed with sugar, but he mentions "eating"

it instead of "drinking" it, so I don't know if you could pass this off as

an orangeade or not, since he could be referring to the previous usage of

orange juice:


The iuyce of oranges, havynge a toste of breade put unto it, with a lyttell

powder of myntes, sugar, and a lyttell cynamonie, maketh a very good sawce

to provoke appetite.  The iuyce eaten with sugar in a hotte fever, is not to

be dyscommended.


I accessed this on the Early English Books Online database.





Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:57:43 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemonade in medieval Egypt

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


I have turned up a juice quotes but the printed recipe

appears to have just appeared in La Varenne which is 1650's.

There's this mention for instance--


Many men putte ?erto in somer ?e Iuse of lymons or of orenges.

[Many men put thereto in summer the juice of lemons or of oranges.]


Chauliac 2(Paris angl. 25 156a/b) c1425


I keep thinking I'll turn up something in that later 15th-16th century gap.




lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:



problem was finding non-alcoholic drink recipes for the 16th century.



Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:45:13 +0100 (CET)

From: sera piom <serapiom74 at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] early european 'beverage'? / pear juice

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


<< On another List, a scholar mentioned this:

"Fortunatus in the sixth century describes the abstemious

Radegund as drinking only water sweetened with

pear juice." >>


As far as I can see, he mentioned two different drinks.

Venantius Fortunatus (see Patrologia Latina vol. 88,504)


"potum vero praeter aquam mulsam, atque [NOTE m] piratium

non bibit; [NOTE n] vini vero puritatem, aut [NOTE o] medi

decoctionem, cervisiaeque turbidinem non contigit."


That is: she drank nothing else apart from sweetened water

and pear juice. "Piratium" is a noun referring to

pear juice.


The note m says "Pyratium, seu pyraticum, erat

succus expressus e pyris, qui pro vino adhibebatur.

S. Hieron., lib. II contra Jovin. 'Paulus', inquit,

'Timotheo dolenti stomachum, vinum suadet bibere, non piratium'."

Roughly: Pyratium is juice that has been

pressed from pears. It is used instead of wine. Hieronymus

reports, that Paul recommended to Timotheus, who had a bad

stomach, to drink wine instead of pear juice.


In another Vita S. Radegundis, Hildebertus Cenomanensis

(PL 171.976) wrote:

"Sitim, quam nimia panis accendit ariditas, vel aquae mulsae,

vel piratii haustu mitigavit. Nam vini, seu cervisiae nullam

fecit omnino mentionem."

Roughly: She mitigated the thirst, aroused by the strong

dryness of the bread, by drinking either sweetened water

or pear juice.


In one of the Capitularia Caroli Magni (PL 97.355), the people

producing pear juice are even mentioned:


"45. Ut unusquisque iudex in suo ministerio bonos habeat artifices,

id est fabros ferrarios, et aurifices, vel argentarios, sutores,

tornatores, carpentarios, scutarios, piscatores, aucipites,

id est aucellatores, saponarios, siceratores, id est qui

cervisam vel pomatium, sive piratium, vel aliud quodcumque

liquamen ad bibendum aptum fuerit, facere sciant; pistores,


Roughly: the siceratores [brewers], that is the people

who know to make beer, apple juice, pear juice or any

other fluid which one may drink.


Serafina Piomba



Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:26:28 +0100 (CET)

From: sera piom <serapiom74 at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] pear juice,      pears and Alexander Neckam's 'De

        naturis rerum'

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


> Very interesting stuff!  Where was this from?  Italy?


Venantius Fortunatus was born in Italy (i.e. what is Italy today),  

but later on moved to France. Radegundis was born in what is Germany  

today. She was sort of kidnapped and brought to France, where she --  

long story snipped -- finally founded a monastery, somewhere around  



> Since the word "siceratores" (brewers) is used, are they talking

> about fermented pear juice (similar to hard cider), or fresh, or both?


I am not sure. There are some websites out there that take the  

passage from the Capitulare de villis as a source for the history of  

cidre, apple wine, pear wine. The passages in the vita rather  

indicate a non-alcoholic interpretation.


Speaking of pears, I just found, that Alexander Neckam's 'De naturis  

rerum' is available at:




Search for "neckam". They have the whole 1863 edition in a  

downloadable file (size 19 MBs). Pears are mentioned on pages 174f  

and 483. No, it did not read the whole thing yet, there is an index.


Enjoy, Serafina



Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:30:03 -0600

From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Night Feast tentative menu

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


> "Hot apple drink"? Sounds intriguing. Please elaborate?


> Katja


Again, from my period non-alcoholic drinks class:


Syrup of Apples

Take a ratl of sweet apples, those that the common people call sar?j  

[this might mean "little lamps"], cook them in water to cover until  

they fall apart and their substance comes out, then clarify it and  

take the clear part and add it to a ratl of sugar. The bag: an ?qiya  

of aloe stems, pounded and put into the bag. Cook until it takes the  

form of a syrup. Drink an ?qiya in two of hot water. Its benefits: it  

fortifies and gladdens the heart.


In reproducing this I took 5 lbs of a mix of Gala and Braeburn  

apples, but any sweet apple would do, washed and quartered them. Then  

put them in a large stockpot and covered with water. I cooked the  

apples over medium heat for around an hour and a half until they fell  

apart easily when pressed with a spoon. Once the apples were soft and  

had given up their juice I poured the mass into a strainer set over  

another stockpot. I then lightly mashed the apples to give out as  

much juice as possible but not so much to make an applesauce. The  

apple remains were discarded.


In my investigations of aloe I have found it has been used both  

topically and internally for centuries. The common aloe plant is  

abundant in the area so just regular aloe stems would work.  


Unfortunately, among the medical benefits of aloe laxative properties  

are also noted. I don't think that steeping crushed stems in the  

juice would give anyone a case of discomfort, but I would rather not  

risk it. It was also noted that the pulp of the aloe is very bitter.  

I feel the aloe was not only included for medicinal benefit but also  

for the bitterness to balance out the very sweet apple syrup. For  

this purpose I chose regular tea bags. In the future I will try the  

crushed aloe to see if there are any ill effects but for my first try  

and for an item to be distributed to the masses I went with something  

a little less potent.


I took the juice of the simmered apples, added a half dozen Lipton  

tea bags and nearly an equal volume of turbado sugar. Then I just  

left the mixture to reduce over medium low heat over several hours.  

The end result was a thick dark syrup of intense sweet/bitter flavor.  

The recipe calls for it to be mixed with hot water and this creates a  

very satisfying ?hot toddy? effect. This is great for a cool evening.





Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:09:21 -0600

From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beverage experiments

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


> Thank you. I'd enjoy seeing an email copy of the class

> notes if it's already typed in or could look it up if it's

> on the web somewhere.


The notes aren't on the web but a lot of information can

be found out there. I suggest checking Cariadoc's Miscellany

since he has translated a lot of Arabic recipes.


Digby's "Weak Honey Drink" won acclaim at Kingdom A&S this



Weak Honey Drink

(More commonly called Small Mead)

Digby p. 107/147


Take nine pints of warm fountain water, and dissolve in it one pint  

of pure White-honey, by laving it therein, till it be dissolved. Then  

boil it gently, skimming it all the while, till all the scum be  

perfectly scummed off; and after that boil it a little longer,  

peradventure a quarter of an hour. In all it will require two or  

three hours boiling, so that at last one third part may be consumed.  

About a quarter of an hour before you cease boiling, and take it from  

the fire, put to it a little spoonful of cleansed and sliced Ginger;  

and almost half as much of the thin yellow rind of Orange, when you  

are even ready to take it from the fire, so as the Orange boil only  

one walm in it. Then pour it into a well-glased strong deep great  

Gally-pot, and let it stand so, till it be almost cold, that it be  

scarce Luke-warm. Then put to it a little silver-spoonful of pure Ale-

yest, and work it together with a Ladle to make it ferment: as soon  

as it beginneth to do so, cover it close with a fit cover, and put a thick dubbled woollen cloth about it. Cast all things so that this may be done when you are going to bed. Next morning when you rise, you will find the barm gathered all together in the middle; scum it clean off with a silver-spoon and a feather, and bottle up the Liquor, stopping it very close. It will be ready to  

drink in two or three days; but it will keep well a month or two. It  

will be from the first very quick and pleasant.


Mine was aged I think 10 days.


> For people that have done the beverages for feasts or other large

> groups, what's the most favorite ratio for adding water back to

> the syrups?


That is definately a matter of taste and the intensity of the syrup.

It also depends on how the drink is to be used. If it is to be cold

and refreshing, like for drinking around a hot tourney field, you

might prefer it be weaker but maybe stronger when drunk with

a meal.


> Does anyone else like to make different kinds of beverages?


I'm really trying to push non-alcoholic period drinks here and get

people away from iced tea, powdered lemonade and sodas.


Coffee, however, is sacred.


> Rose




Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:26:29 -0600

From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hot drinks

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


> (as an aside, we serve coffee and tea at local, indoor events here--

> the majority of our barony's events take place during really colder  

> months, so it's a kindness and a courtesy to have hot beverages  

> available. And it helps keep the non-cooks out of the kitchen....)>  

> --Maire


Syrup of Apples


Take a ratl of sweet apples, those that the common people call sar?j  

[this might mean "little lamps"], cook them in water to cover until  

they fall apart and theirsubstance comes out, then clarify it and  

take the clear part and add it to a ratl of sugar. The bag: an ?qiya  

of aloe stems, pounded and put into the bag. Cook until it takes the  

form of a syrup. Drink an ?qiya in two of hot water. Its benefits: it  

fortifies and gladdens the heart.


I've made this several times and it's wonderful on a cold day.

Although I do cheat and use tea bags instead of a bag of pounded

aloe stems to provide the bitterness.


Period lemonade was also served either hot or cold. Make a syrup

of equal parts syrup and lemon juice. Add water to taste.


Even without tea or coffee, people considered a hot drink a good

thing in cold weather.  I know ales were heated and I wonder

if the Norse heated mead or anything in winter?





Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:22 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] "Middle eastern" drinks for pregnant people


Aldyth wrote:

<<< I have just been asked to do vigil food for a wonderful lady. She is

"Norman" but wants Middle Eastern food and drink. I am OK on the food

aspect. She is a very high risk pregnancy and will be 6 months along at her

elevation. She would like teas. >>>


Tea, i.e., camellia sinensis, is something I have seen no evidence

for in the Middle East within SCA period. Warm beverages of various

sorts, on the other hand, are :)


> And was interested in the mint and yogurt over ice.


Mmm.mmm.mmm, ayran (Turkish)/doogh (Persian) (pronounced dew/doo). I

will have to double check, but I may have seen a period reference for



* Beat until smooth good quality yogurt - works and tastes best if

yogurt is without added stabilizers and thickeners.

* Beat in cold water or cold milk or cold cucumber juice or

carbonated water until the consistency of whole milk.

* It can have mint added, and/or a pinch of salt

* This can be left for a couple days until lactic fermentation make

it fizzy. (although perhaps not for this lady)


> Does anyone have ideas?


* Sharab/sherbet *


A common beverage is sharab (from which we get the word shrub for a

cool beverage; the plural of the Arabic word sharab is sharbat).

Sharbat are syrups made of sugar and fruit juice or various herbs and

spices. While we tend to think of serving this cold, they were

actually often served warm in Arabic speaking lands. Wealthy

Ottomans, on the other hand, often served them, which they called

sherbet, cold, over snow or ice collected from the mountains or saved

from the winter.


In the Ottoman world, sherbet could be made of:

- Apple: Sour Apple

- Apple: Sweet Apple

- Bitter (Seville) Orange

- Citron

- Date

- French Lavender

- Grape (i don't know if fresh grape juice or pekmez/grape molasses)

- Honey (probably honey and sugar mixed)

- Jujube (Ziziphus zizyphus, sometimes called Chinese date or red date)

- Lemon

- Mint

- Mulberry

- Peach

- Pear

- Pomegranate: Sour Pomegranate

- Pomegranate: Sweet Pomegranate

- Quince

- Rhubarb

- Red Rose (made with fresh red roses)

- Rose and Lemon

- Rose Water (made with rose (gul) water (ab), aka juleb, whence julep)

- Sour (Morello) Cherry

- Sugar (i.e., without flavoring, aka simple syrup)

- Tamarind


- Violet


So you could make any of these and have an historical beverage. As

far as how to, there are also number of sharbat recipes in the

Anonymous Andalusian cookbook. Since she is high risk, i would skip

most of the herb and spice blends, since i don't know how she would

react to them. But there also are recipes for lemon and pomegranate

syrups. Because pomegranates are not always in season, i buy 100%

pure pomegranate juice (and some other 100% pure juices) you may have

to check a health food store, since normal supermarkets often have

100% fruit juices, but made with apple and/or grape juice along with

whatever the main flavor it.


* Khoshaf/hoshaf/hoshab *


Another refreshing Ottoman beverage is hoshab/hoshaf, (from Persian,

meaning, pleasant (khosh) water (ab)) which is made with fruits

and/or nuts cooked with sugar and water. It served in a small bowl

and was eaten with a small ladle-like spoon, drinking the liquid from

the spoon, then eating the solids. In the 16th and 17th centuries it

was made with only one fruit at a time:

- Apricots

- Cornelians (aka cornel cherries)

- Figs

- Grapes (or possibly raisins)

- Peaches


- Pears


In more recent times, however, it is often made with a combination

of dried fruits and nuts such as almonds, walnuts, pistachios, and/or

pine nuts. One modern recipe I have uses dried apricots, prunes,

raisins, halved almonds, pistachios, pine nuts, water, granulated

white sugar, rose water, and orange blossom water, and doesn't

require cooking, just soaking together for a couple days.


This can be soothing, refreshing, and rejuvenating.


> Pomegranate tea sounds good,


Not sure what pomegranate tea would be. Please describe.


> but hibiscus doesn't.


Just curious, why not hibiscus (aka jamaica, pronounced ha.my.ka)? It

is rich in nutrients and has a pleasant tangy flavor, not as sharp as

lemon, but similarly refreshing.


Sekanjubin has been suggested. It is not a personal favorite, and I

find it especially unpleasant if made with cider vinegar. Before

serving your lady nothing but sekanjubin, I'd suggest letting her taste

some to see if it agrees with her in her current state. Unless, of

course, you find she is already enjoying it.


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita


<the end>

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