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Middle-hist-msg – 6/12/09


Histories of the Middle Kingdom.


NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-hist2-msg, SCA-hist3-msg, P-history-msg, AEthel-hist-msg, Eald-hist-msg, Northshld-hist-msg, SCA-stories1-msg.


KEYWORDS: SCA history Middle Kingdom story Pennsic





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Blackpowder, you must be kidding

Date: 9 Jun 1994 17:37:37 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


Black powder is not allowed at events in the Middle Kingdom

(black powder weapons are, however). And I know why. I helped

make the law.


Many years ago, there was a gentle who knew nothing of black

powder, brought an oop flintlock pistol to an event and

discharged it. Indoors. The MK curia regis, not wishing to

single out one person, made a law forbidding black powder.

We figured that if someone responsible came up with the

proper authenticity and safety regs at a later date, the

law could be amended (aside: at least two of us who were

then on the curia are now very active in black-powder-

oriented reeanacting). By the time a bunch of us got around

to writing up regulations, the law was so entrenched that

people were telling me, Well, the Board outlawed black

powder, that's why we wrote that law way back when. :)


In coming up with the aforementioned regulations, we were

adament on three points: one, that black powder was never

to be used *on* the field of combat; two, that we would

never use any projectiles beyond carefully restricted

wadding; three, that safety precautions far outweighed any

authenticity concerns.


In brief then, whenever I speak of using black powder at

an SCA events, I am referring only to its use in a

demonstration or as a signalling device. I am now, always

have been and probably always will be opposed to using

any sort of projectiles fired by black-powder ordinance

on the field of combat.


Yrs, Folo


Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Estrella Compact

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 22:33:05 GMT


"I wish I had a nickel for every high-ranker who blythely comments

"How would you like to have my job?"" (Tadhg)


A very long time, not much after we moved back to Chicago, the U of C

group was being run by a lady who was bored with being Seneschal but

did not really want to let go. At one meeting she said something to

the effect that her term was up, that she did not really want to be

Seneschal again, but that she did not suppose anyone else would want

the job. Someone promptly proposed one of the newer members. She went

off with him and explained how difficult a group it was to run. He

replied that the year before he had been an officer of the Gay and

Lesbian Alliance, and he thought the SCA would be easy by comparison.

He took the job, and did it well (until, unfortunately, he moved out

of town).






Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Michael of Boarshaven

Date: 03 AUG 94 12:11:46 EST

Organization: Milwaukee Area Technical College


btuck at winternet.com (Ben Tucker) writes:


>Bruce Mills (millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:


>: I haven't heard about this before.  Was it common knowledge at the time?

>: This would go a long way towards understanding what happened.  Was it kept

>: quiet so as to not rock the boat?  As things turned out, might

>: it not have been better for Michael to step down right after the incident?

>: Not having been there (or even in the SCA) at the time, I can only

>: speculate on the motivations of those involved.


>Well, it's in the Middle Kingdom history that Baron Daemon de Folo sells.

>The story is pretty well known on this end of the MK.


And Folo should know...

     he was Michael's advisor from shortly after Michael won Crown.


Folo, would you care to expand on these events?


"Raven"    (JSingle at Music.Lib.MATC.Edu)   Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA



From: julifolo at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (watkins julia k)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Michael of Boarshaven

Date: 3 Aug 1994 03:31:10 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


This is Folo, posting from his wife's account since his system

suffered a disk crash (right after an extended weekend, so I

haven't read mail for five days; if you've sent me anything,

that's why you haven't heard from me).


Michael was amoral, vindictive and manipulative long before the

attack. His problem *was* commonly known at the time; in fact,

there was a rumor that Rolac (Michael's predecessor) was going

to keep him from being crowned due to the amnesia. Michael

suffered from his amnesia for, possibly, a couple weeks; it's

impossible to tell because a) he was still having problems

for some time afterwards and b) he was faking it quite a bit

(I remember the evening that I was over at his place, and his

girlfriend turned to him and said, bluntly, "Folo's your friend;

why don't you just tell him the truth?").


Any problems that Michael suffered from after the attack were

there, in spades, before the attack.


Remember, though, that Michael could be incredibly charming and

sweet...when it served his purposes. He had said, when he was

tanist, that he would leave the MidRealm a better place, even

though he might be hated; and the changes that came about in

response to his...actions...would certainly fill that bill.

BTW, Richard d'Alsace, who was MidRealm Seneschal at the time,

once noted that Michael was probably the most authentically

medieval monarch he had ever seen: when he entered an event,

every eye in the room turned to him. He was regarded with

the same awe and fear that medieval monarchs were regarded,

although it was not because he held power of life or death

over his subjects but because he could very easily ruin the

entire weekend for his subjects (Richard's opinion, not



Yrs, Folo



From: mchance at crl.com (Michael A. Chance)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: We're having *what* for dinner? (Was: Kosher Locusts)

Date: 3 Aug 1994 20:52:34 -0700

Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access


Auntie Signy writes:


>   Long long ago in a kingdom much too close for comfort (the Middle,

>actually) there was "June Bug Chili."  The original came about because

>someone forgot to put the cover on the chili; nowadays we just add whole



Ah, yes, the Barony of Illiton's famous June Bug Chili, served every

year at the Olde English Fair at Jubilee State Park. There's

something... "special"...about eating crunchy chili as you watch the

junebugs flitter about the lanterns in the kitchen...


Mikjal Annarbjorn


Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA   "At play in the fields

Work: mc307a at sw1stc.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"

Play: mchance at crl.com

      mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu



From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Freaking the Mundanes?  But why?

Date: 18 Oct 1994 21:55:16 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


As I understand it, Scadian was originally a derogatory term

applied to members of the SCA by some of the members of Markland.

As in all groups with strong cultural identities, the SCA has a

tendency to take derogatory terms and turn them on their ears.

I think Scadian is a wonderful term and shall continue to use

it no matter what its origins (sort of like "Skah" in the

MidRealm, which was originally a derogatory term coined by

disgruntled local skiffy fans who saw the SCA siphoning off

their members; the full phrase was something like "Skah, the

Thing That Devoured Fandom...")


Yrs, Folo


Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)



From: David Schroeder <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: REALLY REALLY old timers needed

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:15:15 -0400

Organization: Sponsored account, Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 10-Apr-95 Re: REALLY REALLY old

timer.. by Henry Troup at bnr.ca

> In the Heraldic Precedents books, there's an early remark:


> "The Board believes xxx is the Dragon Herald because they have a newspaper

> clipping that says he is"


> or words to that effect.  I think the name was Bran something,

> but I'm not going to commite myself.


  Bran Kernow (or Kiernow) was the 1st Dragon Herald (from Tree-Girt-Sea)


  My best -- Bertram



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: REALLY REALLY old timers needed

From: morgenstern at blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu (The Morgenstern Under the Mountain)

Date: 11 Apr 95 10:43:10 EST

Organization: Ball State University


In article <hwt-1004950820160001 at>, hwt at bnr.ca (Henry Troup) writes:

> In article <D6sxBs.831 at midway.uchicago.edu>, ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu wrote:


>> I cannot speak for the East Kingdom, since it was several years old

>> when I moved there. But when the Middle was being started, the Known

>> World Handbook was a major source for what we knew about the SCA.


> In the Heraldic Precedents books, there's an early remark:


> "The Board believes xxx is the Dragon Herald because they have a newspaper

> clipping that says he is"


> or words to that effect.  I think the name was Bran something,

> but I'm not going to commite myself.


     Bran was in fact the first Dragon Herald.  In fact, he actaully coined the

name and was rather surprised when the Board accepted that as the actualname

for the office.  He was a member from very nearly the beginning, but as I

recall, he wasn't at the first Middle Kingdom event.

     I don't know about the newspaper clipping story, but it sounds


     Anybody remember some of those EARLY anti-BoD songs? "Lie, Lie, Lie to

the council, Lie to the heads of state..."



     Reb Azrael Morgenstern

     (No, I wasn't there...I just recall what I read in the "Brief History of

the Midrealm.")


> Henry Troup - hwt at bnr.ca      disclaimer - as usual



From: tmcd at crl.com (Timothy A. McDaniel)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Longest-active SCA members

Date: 22 Jun 1995 01:56:34 -0500

Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access      (415) 705-6060  [Login: guest]


In article <3s2og5$2pp at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Annejke <annejke at aol.com> wrote:

>There are many OLD folk around, all over 20 years.  In the Middle Kingdom

>I know that ... Baron

>Caradoc of the Bow are still active.


It's a bit debatable, but we seem to have a new member of the SSS.

Could someone prod Justin du Coeur, please?  I don't have his address.


This is from e-mail from His Grace, Duke Cariadoc, Knight, et cetera

(a fudge because I can't remember whether he's a Laurel, a Pelican, or



    Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 23:58:32 -0500

    Message-Id: <199506220458.XAA14324 at midway.uchicago.edu>

    To: "Timothy A. McDaniel" <tmcd at crl.com>

    From: ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu

    Subject: Re: Baron?


    In the very early years, when things were less organized than they

    now are, Diana and I used the titles "Baron and Baroness

    Tregirtsea," Tregirtsea being the capital province. Indeed, we

    were sometimes referred to as the "Tregirtseas." My memory is that

    we, or our herald, had asked some relevant person out west if we

    could be Duke and Duchess of Tregirtsea, and this was suggested as

    an alternative. On the other hand, I do not remember our ever

    being officially made court baron and baroness, and Tregirtsea is

    not a barony.



    David Friedman

    ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu


I dimly recall reading a history of the early days of the Midrealm in

which "the Barony under the Mountain" was mentioned as a very early

name for the Middle.  The arms had a dragon flying about a mountain,

and the later Middle arms changed the mountain into a pale.  However,

I don't have the source to hand, so this is just an assertion.


Daniel de Lincoln

                           Tim McDaniel

                           tmcd at crl.com

Sometimes mcdaniel at dfw.net, sometimes tmcdanie at unicomp.net

Was tccg at netcom.com, was mcdaniel at convex.com, was mcdaniel at adi.com, ...



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Longest-active SCA members

From: morgenstern at blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu (The Morgenstern Under the Mountain)

Date: 24 Jun 95 18:00:43 EST

Organization: Ball State University


In article <3sb472$7da at crl12.crl.com>, tmcd at crl.com (Timothy A. McDaniel) writes:


> I dimly recall reading a history of the early days of the Midrealm in

> which "the Barony under the Mountain" was mentioned as a very early

> name for the Middle.  The arms had a dragon flying about a mountain,

> and the later Middle arms changed the mountain into a pale.  However,

> I don't have the source to hand, so this is just an assertion.


      This sounds like Orlando Ambrosius' "Brief History of the Middle

Kingdom", in which he makes precisely that statement. I always liked the sound

of it, which referred to (I believe) Wilmot Mountain, at which one of the

Midrealm's eariest events (first coronation?) took place. Personally, I

prefer the mountain on the arms to the pale, but times change, I suppose.

"Baron Under the Mountain" is still used as a title for the King of the

Midrealm.  At the Better War Through Archery event in January, I heard the

heralds announce the Queen as, among a half-dozen other titles, "Baroness Under

the Mountain", so I suppose the tradition has still stuck.


     Azrael Morgenstern



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)

Subject: Re: Longest-active SCA members

Organization: University of Chicago Law School

Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 04:15:40 GMT


In article <1995Jun24.180043 at blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu>,

morgenstern at blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu (The Morgenstern Under the Mountain) wrote:


Timothy A. McDaniel writes:

> I dimly recall reading a history of the early days of the Midrealm in

> which "the Barony under the Mountain" was mentioned as a very early

> name for the Middle.  The arms had a dragon flying about a mountain,

> and the later Middle arms changed the mountain into a pale.  However,

> I don't have the source to hand, so this is just an assertion.


It was the principality under the mountain, to the best of my memory and

belief. I do not remember any such banner. Wilmot "mountain" is where the

first (and last) coronet tourney was held.



DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu



From: Pat McGregor <PatriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Teens in the SCA???

Date: 29 Sep 1995 16:45:51 GMT

Organization: Intel IT Tech Pubs


Bill McNutt <McNutt at gateway.ce.utk.edu> wrote:


>Like I said, I think that five years old is premature. I'm not so sure >about 15, and I'm SURE about 17.


>I think we need to rethink our national policy.



I was around when Sir Alen did a great deal of research through his law

firm about these sorts of laws, and I read his report (not officially

an "opinion") carefully. This was in the 1984-ish time frame, give or

take a year or so.


One of the problems was a great number of states who defined child abuse

so narrowly (and required reporting by hospitals, physicians, etc)

that an adult bruising a minor (even if that minor was 17) as child

abuse. Certainly the Middle didn't want to risk it, and the Board,



We probably need to have a similar survey done today.




From: normteck at frontiernet.net at frontiernet.net

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: SCA Mythology part 3

Date: 21 Feb 1996 02:50:54 GMT

Organization: Frontier Internet Access


>:     That evening at court, Hugo also received a 'Dragon's tooth', the

>: Midrealms highest fighting award for his feat.  Not to mention that he

>: made it to the quarter finals in his first coronet.


>The Mid has always been "funny" about awards.  I know a guy who got his

>lordship for "writing" a filk, "Takin Care of Kingdom."


Baron Stephen Ironhand, at that time from the Mid, received the order of the

Dragon's Breath for his enthusiastic rendition of Happy Birthday, sung (if you're crazy enough to call it that) to the tune of the William Tell Overture (The Lone Ranger theme).


The scroll was done in Hatchet Hand by (since made Master) Pavel Iosovitch. I

understand Pavel destroyed 19 nibs making the scroll which couldn't be viewed

by women passing water in our bathroom, but the men could see it while

performing the same task.


If anyone can add to this one I'm sure the story could only improve.


Raphael Tempovaloroso, OGS, OCL

Thescorre, Regnum Orientalis



From: ianengle at freenet.columbus.oh.us (Ian Engle)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Middle broke away?

Date: 3 Jul 1996 10:58:19 -0400

Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet




        Well, as Cariadoc noted and as is recorded in Orlando Ambrosius'

History of the Middle Kingdom, there was a period of some six months when

we were a "principality" of the East.  But then things were much looser in

those days.  We were never a principality in the "modern" sense of the word.





Subject: Re: ANST - Principality petitions/seccession war

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 14:42:19 MST

From: "Galen W. Bevel" <galenbv at ix.netcom.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Scot Eddy wrote:

............................Coronation has a battle and the Prince

> "banishes" the old King and steps up. He then chooses a champion from

> those that distiguished themselves in the battle. Lots of persona

> play, a medieval reality (overthrowing the King) and lots of fun.


> Again no dishonor to Ansteorra is meant, just a cool stepping up idea.


> Jovian Skleros

> Ansteorran


Actually, this sort of thing has been done in the past in other

Kingdoms, tho' it isn't our custom.  Let me see if I can get a great

story straight as it was related to me.


When Edmund first stepped up as King of the Middle, he wanted a cool

Coronation.  Having met and been befriended by Edmund (and my self, from

Ansteorra as fate would have it)at Gulf Wars V, Bjorn, King of the East

thought it would be fun to show up at Edmunds Coronation. He marched in

with several of his knights and claimed that they were there to

"protect" the Middle throne during the interegnum, following the recent

demise of the Middle soveriegn.  Of course, this interegnum might end up

lasting several years.  Edmund, totally caught off guard, valiantly

proclaimed his right to the throne and he and the knights of the Middle

went off to seek their armor and trounce these invading Easterners. A

royal melee (literally) ensued, with Edmund of course coming out

victorius and going on to ascend the Mid-Realm throne. Bjorn told me at

the 30year Celebration that at one time during the battle, the knights

got so enthusiastic about the battle that they left Edmund standing

alone, beside Bjorn...and two or three Eastern knights. Bjorn said it

was almost more temptation than he could handle, but he was good and

went off to join his other knights in battle, and left the Middle its

Crown Prince.


I make no claims for the veracity of this story, as I am telling it from

memory after several years, and of course feel the need for a bit of

poetic license to make it more enjoyable, but any variations from the

basic truth are accidents and entirely the fault of my leaky memory. In

such a case..my apologies to both Edmund and Bjorn.


Graf Galen K.



Subject: Re: BG - principalities else where..

Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 11:17:06 MST

From: dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!!news-feeds.jump.net!jumpnet.com!not-for-mail at  at dca1-feed1.news.digex.net

To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG


Hello, this is Raito.


I'd like to comment on Nicolaa de Bracton's message on Ealdomere as I was living

in the Middle Kingdom at the time all this happened.


Much has been deleted from the original.


> > I can tell you a little why we chose that route. I think it was in the back

> > of the mind of the first group members up here to someday have a Northern

> > Kingdom.  Round about 1986 or so, we decided to select a regional

> > champion--this is the route Calontir had taken towards becoming a kingdom

> > some years before.  But things had changed;  the Middle Kingdom decided that

> > regions could not have champions or even names. This was decided without

> > consulting us here in Ealdormere, so we felt crushed.  However, two years

> > later, we became a Crown Principality (that's a principality in name, but

> > without Royalty) and about 2 1/2 years after that, in 1990, we advanced to

> > full Principality status.  Last January, we were approved to advance to

> > Kingdom status, which we will do next October.


The Regional Debacle was an example of the wrong (though very Middle) reaction

to a problem. As I understand, the reason Regions (capital R) were banned was

because some clueless person thought that they were more than they were, and

was demanding status based on it. Instead of quietly dragging said individual

into a corner and beating some sense into them, the Middle made a Law (which

is their tendency. If you've been around long enough, you know which laws were

made as a result of whose troubles). This led to the age of 'independently

administered geographical areas'. Later, there were regions again.


> > One of the driving reasons why we became a Principality was the size of the

> > Middle Kingdom.  It's huge.  We also thought we had a somewhat different

> > culture here (being all Canadians, for one thing, and tending towards lots

> > of smaller groups instead of fewer huge groups). We also, as I mentioned,

> > wanted to see our own folks as Royalty--the King and Queen were people we

> > saw once a reign, if we were lucky, at that point.


In fact, the Middle Kingdom is so big that it makes some of the arguments about

Principalities in Ansteorra a bit amusing to me. It still stretches from Manitoba to Kentucky. Those of you who think that Ansteorra is too big should try getting to Winnipeg from anywhere. Actually, Castel Rouge (Winnipeg) was placed into the Principality of Northshield against its will.


Having lived through the creation of 3 princilaplities in the Middle (Calontir,

Ealdomere, and Northshield), I can say that the successful ones had some

important items in common. They were already acting like Principalities, and

had very active desire to become Principalities. In those cases, it was not

done to ease any burden on the Kingdom, and had nothing to do with the Kingdom.

They already had their own culture. The less successful one did not have these

items. I had visited all 3 while they were Principalities. It was obvious to me

which had been done for the right reasons, and which for the wrong.


The largest problem that I have seen with the formation of a Principality is

the politics. I have seen persons, both for and against, lie outright to

advance their causes. Calling it to their attention didn't make me very

popular. I have had my honor personally called into question because of the

question of Principality (semi-quote 'Obviously Raito will rhino his way

through the coronet so that he can dissolve the Principality because he

voted no on the ballot' [as if the Prince can dissolve it]). I have had to put

up with persons discussing the 'loyalty' of others. I'd rather not go

through that again.


Kitakaze Tatsu Raito

Neil Gilmore

npg at wesson.com



From: "Drew Nicholson" <anicholson16 at comcast.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Baby Barons

Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:17:08 -0500


"Terri/Hrothny" <nothingbutadame at inthe.sca.org> wrote

>    I heard a rumour this weekend that some King and Queen had created Court

> Barons of their three children - one a baby in diapers. Surely this is just

> a silly rumour? The folks mentioning it (as so often happens with stupid

> Urban Legends) didn't know which Kingdom it "happened in just this month".

>    I can't imagine that anyone would be that cavalier with honour awards but

> figured that if anyone would know the truth of how the rumour got started,

> it'd be someone here.

>    Where is this story coming from?


Midrealm. Yes, it did indeed happen.  While there have been varied

reactions to this within the kingdom, the general consensus is that They are

the King and Queen, and have the right to bestow this most personal of

awards upon anyone they see fit.   The award/position of Court Baron is one

that has highly varying "standards" (at least in the MidRealm), and that

might be taken into account when reacting to these awards.


Below are the words of Their Majesties Midrealm.


> "It is truth that We made unto Our sons Barons of the Court. There are many

> other rumors that are not true but such is the burden of Royalty. We

> do not let such base gossip darken Our days. Many have cheered at Our

> boldness and others have criticized Our giving these and other

> awards to children.

> To this We simply say that children are just as important a part of the SCA as

> adults. Often they work as hard or harder than the adults and their service

> is in need of recognition. And if an individual would be so selfish as to

> deny the recognition of another then they should examine their actions

> and heart. For by stating their selfish nature it has shown that Our

> actions in rewarding children and adults alike are good and just. If you

> hear dissent please pass on Our words to them or have them seek Us out and

> have them voice their displeasure to Us and We shall tell them in person.


> We had the courage to do it publicly in the highest profile event and at the

> beginning of the reign so that all may see. We leave people to judge Us as

> they like. No matter if they judge Us good or bad We will lead and do what

> We think is right.


> King Felix

> trm at midrealm.org"


I suggest that if you have issues with this, you simply contact them.





From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant_NOSPAM at indiana.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Baby Barons

Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:53:45 -0500

Organization: Indiana University


Okay. I'm a court baron. I used to be Baron of the Far West. But that was ages

ago, in another kingdom.


People may ask "What is your Laurel for?" -- but I've never heard anyone ask

"what is your court baronage for?"


Court baronies are, for good or ill, one of the few really totally discretionary

awards the Crown can make. There are official standards for just about

everything else. The Crown *can* ignore those standards, if they wish, of

course, and elevate whom they will -- but the fact is, there are standards.


There is no such standard for the Court Barony. The Crown can give it for

exemplary and long service for which no other award seems suitable; the Crown

can give it for a retirement "job well done" (esp. to stepping-down baronial

coronets); the Crown can even capriciously give it to someone for exemplary acts

of friendship. Any and all of these are, in fact, historically viable reasons

for making someone a great lord or baron.


Kings may do as they will, as long as they don't violate the Laws.


No laws have been broken.


Had I been asked, I would have advised against it -- but Their Majesties are my

King and Queen, my Liege lords, and I am their subject and a loyal peer. Though

I would have advised against it, I will support them in what they have done as

they have not done anything illegal, immoral, indecent, or improper.


They have made personal decisions about personal awards which, according to our

Laws, is theirs to give as they will. And to me, that is an end to it.





Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:51:55 -0500

From: Martinsen at ansteorra.org, Kerri"

        <kerrimart at cablespeed.com>" at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Creative Supplimentation

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I started in the SCA in Atenveldt (Greater Phoenix, AZ).

> There are three baronies, a College, and a Shire all

> within an hours drive, but the rest of the Kingdom is

> spread out over a huge area.  (There are nearly 5 million

> people in Arizona, but 3 million of them live in the GPA


Hum. Interesting differences.  I started playing in

Northshield when it was part of the Middle.  In the 2

years I played there, I saw royalty once, at my first

event and I didn't know what to do. (Nothing like getting

called in front of the King during feast when you have no

silverware and are eating steak with your fingers).


Most events were camping, except in the winter.  A 3 hour

drive to an event was considered daytripable. Feasts were

standard (and cheep cheep cheep!) at camping events,

although they were usually small (50-60 was standard)

Leftovers were used for breakfast.  I wasn't paying

attention to what kind of food was being served at feasts,

as long as I didn't go away hungry I was happy.


The one thing that I miss in Atlantia is Crash space.  In

Northshield, you could always call the autocrat (or the

crash-o-crat) and they would have a list of people willing

to take folks in for the night.  Made day events possible.


Don't here about that out in Atlantia. Maybe I'm just in

the wrong circles.


Kerri Martinsen

Hrosvitha von Celle

kerrimart at cablespeed.com



Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:31:18 -0700 (PDT)

From: Elyse Boucher <elyseboucher at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?

To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>


--- Anna Troy <owly3 at yahoo.se> wrote:

<<< This is a slightly strane question but since this is

the largest list I'm on here goes. Which kingdoms

shout Huzzah at court and which shout Vivat/Vivant?

Does anyone know how and why this divide occured?


Anna de Byxe >>>


Northshield uses vivant/vivat in court (the first

Prince by right of arms was nurtured in Atlantia) and

skol in the feast hall (owing to the large number of

people who are modernly of Scandinavian descent

(Norwegian, myself) in the kingdom).


The Middle uses "Hoobah!"--stems from the days of

yore, when a couple of venerable and ancient Dukes

were trying to encourage some budding belly dancers

with shouts of "hubba, hubba!" It just sort of morphed

from there, but I can not tell you how, for the

transformation from one to the other was complete by

the time I arrived in the Midrealm. To the best of my

knowledge, none of the sons of the Dragon (Calontir,

Ealdomere, Northshield) use Hoobah.


IIRC, Huzzah is primarily used in the Kingdoms to the

west of us. Don't quote me, though. Based on this, my

*guess* as to the origin of the split comes from the

simple fact that the East wanted something different

from the West, and the Middle went its own oddball

way, leaving the kingdoms who would eventually split

off from the first 3 to choose their own paths.


Yours, Merouda Pendray

Modern: Elyse C. Boucher, West Allis, WI

SCA: Merouda Pendray, Caer Anterth Mawr, Northshield



Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:42:09 -0400

From: "Jonathan E. Feinstein" <jonathan at sc2.com>

Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?

To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'"

      <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>


-----Original Message-----

Okay, I'll bite again and show my ignorance of early Horde

history, despite having read various things and having been given several early Horde song tapes.   HAMMs? >>>  


      Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mysterious. I think it's more early

Middle, than Horde history, although it goes back far enough that these

things blend. The Brotherhood of H.A.M.M.S. (Humbly Arrogant Masters of

Mirthful Song... And yes, I think Yang did coin the name) was a group of the

select songsters of the SCA in the Middle and not too much later in the

East. It included Yang the Nauseating, Azarael the Soul Separator, Hael of

the Broken Masque, Richard of Alsace, and a few others. The only ones I can

think of who are still vaguely active these days are Moonwulf of Rivenstar,

El of the Two Knives and myself. Membership was always a bit fuzzy so there

may be a few more I never knew were members.





From:  Mother Mo Cridhe! <kate.mccridhe at gmail.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA history from my perspective... Ameoba and my recollection of other games

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:11:11 -0000


On Aug 20, 11:04 pm, jk <kles... at suddenlink.net> wrote:

> What makes you think it was outlawed?


> Mother Mo Cridhe! <kate.mccri... at gmail.com> wrote:

> >Hee hee... I thought, why not?

> >I'm one of the central culprits for an old SCA game... the Ameoba.  (I

> >have no idea what so ever if this game is still played, but it is

> >silly.)


> >It was Arwyn & Chepe's wedding, Three Rivers on the campus of

> >Washington University.

> >It started out, I was standing arm in arm with Corwin and Cyfruis (...

> >uh... that don't look right, but...).  We were just standing around

> >that way and chattering.  Corwin's wife, Linnet came up and twined her

> >arm around him, and we kept chattering away. Cyfruis' other girl

> >friend came along and twined her arm around him, and we kept chattering

> >away.  Karl von Kuhlmann came along (Cyfruis' other girlfriend's other

> >boyfriend...), and joined in... pretty soon, more folks were joining

> >in this arm in arm line-up, I think just because the proportions were

> >beginning to be silly enough to be fun looking.

> >Pretty soon, the two on opposite ends of the line-up decided that they

> >should close the ends and shuffled the line into a circle.

> >By this time we were all pretty silly, so we went along with it,

> >giggling and snorting all the way.

> >Well... all that giggling & snorting in this circle... more folks just

> >had to squeeze in... and there was more giggling... which attracted

> >more people...

> >Pretty soon a couple of folks suggested that this formation was

> >resembling an ameoba.

> >What do ameobas do?

> >They wander around and eat up other organisms...

> >So, giggling and snorting and someone started chanting "Ameoba-ameoba-

> >ameoba..." and we started capturing other people on the grounds and

> >squeezing them into the circle.

> >Pretty soon there were more people playing Ameoba than were loose on

> >the grounds...

> >And that's how Ameoba started.


> >Anybody remember Clench a Wench?

> >The one and only time I ever played it, the game had just recently

> >been outlawed in the SCA.  However, at a private revel... actually...

> >I believe it was just someone's birthday party of close friends, all

> >of whom happened to be in the SCA.

> >In this particular game, the guys were assigned letters and the gals

> >were assigned numbers.

> >Anyrate, things were progressing and a lot of us were wondering why

> >the game was outlawed, we were all having fun and things were

> >progressing as they should.

> >By the time it was my turn to sit in the middle and call out a letter

> >and a number, I really had honestly figured out who was assigned which

> >letter or number.  But... I was more suseptible to my hypoglycemia in

> >those days, having indulged in a hefty portion of cake and other

> >sweets, I was getting pretty hungry for protein... specifically...

> >steak... nice... tender... fire grilled... BOVINE BLOOD MEAT!!!

> >With out much thought I called out "A-1"

> >Then... I realised who I called out.

> >I heard the war cries from both sides of me.

> >I looked one way and saw Linnet in full charge.

> >I looked the other way and saw Corwin in full charge.

> >I squawked, covered my head with my arms and rolled up into an uber-

> >fetal position.

> >I had knees in my back, elbows cracking me in the skull, hands clawing

> >at my shoulders and arms, and TWO PEOPLE RIGHT ON TOP OF ME!!!

> >Luckily, I am a fair sized gal, even then, when I looked like a

> >skeleton, I weighed in at 140 pounds (I'm 6' tall), so I wasn't any

> >more injured than a small bruise to my ribs.  I was able to emerge

> >laughing at the good natured rough housing...

> >On the other hand, it was quickly decided that that was the very

> >reason Clench a Wench was outlawed, and the game was immediately

> >disbanded.


> jk-


Clench a Wench was outlawed in the Middle Kingdom ... oh... it was

before Calontir was even a principality, I'm not even sure Calontir

was named at that time... uhm... it would have been XIV or there

abouts, I think.



Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:53:00 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Midrealm News regarding royalty OT OP

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


News from Midrealm Lists today-- Johnnae


Posted today on LegioDraconis.com:


To to the populace of the Middle Kingdom, We write this missive with a

heavy heart. As of last night the BOD has terminated our reign. During

the period when Tessa was recovering from her shattered elbow and

surgery, we had a hard time juggling personal life and SCA life. Our

membership renewal was lost in the mail and by the time we realized it,

our membership had lapsed for 3 days. According to Corpora, that leads to

an automatic termination. We are very sorry for any hurt or pain this

may cause to the populace of the Middle Kingdom.


Our kingdom is the best in the Knowne World due to it's populace. We

appreciate the support that we were given. It was truly incredible. We

hope that everyone will give the same support to our successors no

matter who they might be.


Tessa & Lutr



From: Reed Harrig

Date: Sat 17 May 2008 10:39:20 AM EDT


It is with absolutely no joy that I find myself Regent of the Middle

Kingdom. Her Grace Aislinn will be assisting me in those duties.


While this is a very unusual situation, it does will not require vast

changes to the day to day operation of the Kingdom.


We already have a Crown Tourney scheduled to take place on Sunday May 25th.

The format and manor of the tourney will be the same as every other Crown

Tourney. The only difference will be that on that day the winner will be

Crowned Sovereign and the gentle they fought for will be Crowned Consult.


The new King and Queen will serve for the duration of the normal summer

reign. At a time and place to be determained later this summer, another

Crown tourney will be held to choose the Heirs who will then step up in



If anyone has any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Duchess

Aislinn or myself.


With a bit of hard work and determination, the good works of Lutr and Tessa

need not be wasted.


In Service,



Midrealm Regent



Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 23:25:18 -0400

From: chawkswrth at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Midrealm News regarding royalty OT OP

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


This is the exact letter as it was posted on the Livejournal SCA List;


Greetings unto the Noble Populace of the Midrealm from Duke Palymar of the Two Baronies, Regent of the Midrealm,


In the past few days, we have witnessed many fine examples noblesse oblige, as people have lent their voice in support of friend and Kingdom. In an effort to ensure the succession of the Royal lineage, and with support of the Board of Directors of the SCA, Inc., an ad hoc Crown tournament will be held on Sunday, May 26, at 10 am., prior to the already published and announced tournament.


This tournament will be open to Sir Lutr Ulfskjald and those combatants and consorts who are found to be acceptable to the Regent.


Following the conclusion of this tournament, the victor will immediately be Crowned King and Queen of the Midrealm and the previously advertised Crown tournament will commence as scheduled.


Complete details will be posted on the Crown Tourney website in the near future.


Thank you all for your patience and understanding during this unprecedented occasion in the Midrealm,


In Service,

Duke Palymar of the Two Baronies

Regent of the Midrealm


Kudos to His Grace for a most equitable solution to a horrid, sticky question. Remember-the rules are there for a purpose. The BOD MUST uphold what they, themselves have passed. Whether that law is right or wrong, is moot.


Let us hope that Right does indeed prevail at what is truly going to be a Crown Tournament.



Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 03:08:49 -0500

From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Midrealm News regarding royalty OT OP

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


On another list I recieved info that because of several past incidences the

BOD can not be flexible. Apparently all it takes is a few twerps to ruin it

for others and thus Lutr and Tessa can not appeal. :(


-----Original Message-----

This is unconscionable.  I can't believe that we are so hidebound by rules

that we can't take into account something of this nature. Surely they will

appeal.  While I haven't had the privilege of meeting them, I'm sure that

there are many in the Middle who would support an appeal of this decision.





Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 12:27:01 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Midrealm Crown for the Summer Reign

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


I'll post this since I've been asked what was happening.


Johnnae (at home in Michigan)


<<< Courtesy of the Middlebridge


Dag and Lutr fought the first of their two-out-of-three. Lutr won, and

they went off to change arms.


Lutr returns to find Dag handing his helm and sword to the marshals.

Dag then makes a speech about how Lutr has fought Chivalrously and

bested, in true Chivalric manner, all comers, and Dag acceeded the

Tourney to Lutr. The Marshals had to come and help Lutr stand down, as

he was too stunned to move. The Hall has gone wild.


Dag offered both his sword and chain to Lutr, who asked that the chain

be given to Tessa. Tessa took the chain, then returned it to Dag.


And that's the way we play in the Middle. Hoobah to our once and Future

King and Queen, Lutr and Tessa!


With Joy at this reporting.


Shlomo K



Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:33:18 -0400

From: rattkitten <rattkitten at bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coronation of Lutr and Tessa

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


I thought someone might get a bang out of this... this was emailed out

to a lot of Atlantian email lists...


This is NOT MY WORK!!!!!!!!!  It belongs to Lord Jonathan Blackbow.




So there's a poetry competition in Windmaster's Hill's next event, and

the theme is:


Poetry contest!

Baron James of Middle Aston, Poetia Atlantia, is sponsoring a poetry

contest. The virtues highlighted at the Pas are Chivalry, Prowess,

Countenance, and Magnificence. Create verse that encompasses and extols

one or more of these virtues. Instill courage in the hearts of fighters

or honor those who idealize these virtues. Documentation is encouraged.


I didn't have an entry. I have to be inspired to write.


Then I watched the youtube video of Duke Dag at Lutr's Crown victory and

the rest was easy.


Casey Hits it Out of the Park

(a poem in honor of Duke Dag, King Lutr,

and the Adversity that made their Light

Shine that much more Brightly

In a Darkened World)


The outlook wasn't brilliant for the Middle King that day

Tess's elbow, broke; they'd done their best, but mail was delayed

and the BoD, they did their usual thing, t's dotted and i's crossed;

said "Lutr, buddy, the rules is the rules, so face it, bud, you've lost."


Now Lutr's a right standup guy, and took it with good grace

"Let's face it, folks, we screwed the pooch, and now we've got to face

the facts that are: our reign's been shot, and now we've got to fix

the mess that's left, and then go back to hitting each other with sticks."


But the last guy that screwed the pooch, you say, I can't remember his name

got banned from fighting Crown for years for doing just the same

So the Middle was in a mess, no doubt, names called and fingers pointing

to champion their special cause: the King of next anointing.


So about this time - we'll never know why - the BoD saw what they'd caused

a simple rule, so easy to fix, and yet they never paused

to think "hey, maybe we should change this rule before it causes grief

and pain and angst and angry words and problems past belief."


We're sure they did their best by us, the members of their club

We're sure this rule will soon be fixed, before the next king's dubbed

But meantime the thought that comes back down is "Palymar's the judge

of fixing this as best he can, to clear away the sludge."


At least four times did Lutr fight that day to win his Crown

But one stands forth; the last he fought, 'gainst a man of great renown

Duke Dag did strive in that last of rounds for many a mighty blow

But all for naught, or so it seemed, since Lutr laid him low


Then Dag arose, and said the words that some of you have heard

he spoke of oaths, and kings, and law, and keeping of one's word

"the law's been met, I'll fight no more," and he said it with such force,

the roar of approval from the crowd meant the deed was done, of course.


And Lutr and Tessa were crowned again, and many hearts were glad,

And while were sure that some hearts weren't; know what? that's just too

bad. So, Lutr and Tessa are King and Queen, and great! But my words mark:

The best of men that day? Was Dag. He hit it clear out of the park.



ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:

<<< The first part is the speech by His Grace Dag.



Ranvaig >>>



<the end>

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