P-history-msg – 3/16/08
Pennsic history.
NOTE: See also the files: BPThingie-art, Enchnted-Grd-msg, Pennsic-ideas-msg, P-stories-msg, P-storage-msg, SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, P-tale-MWIFO-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: PB06098 at uafsysb.uark.EDU (Paul Byers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fighting Hamsters
Date: 12 Mar 1993 05:06:46 -0500
The Calontir song of fighting hamsters is written for me. (large grin and swell
ing of breast!)
Back at pensic 12, or was it 13? anyway, In those days I fought with a
duct-taped hamster on my helm. (plastic, sword and shield, brown.) That was the year I introed the Calon shield wall. I was the center scutum, anchoring the whole line. All my secondarys were females. All throught he differnt assaults they would hit my hamster with their pommals. hamster would squeak, they would giggle, I would yell/whine 'girls! Please!' and the foe was sore confused.
Later in the war a great sword blew the pore hamster off my helm. We recoverd
him and got hime drunk. After that for a few years most of the calon aremy
wore hamsters on or in their helms. I still have my original hamster some were.
Enough. If you want to hear more E-mail me while I'm at a real editor.
Pavel (still in combat with the dual demons NDIS and ODI!)
Calontir
From: hwt at bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Subject: Re: Blasphemy Alert : Move Pennsic ?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 12:21:47 GMT
|>doconnor at sedona.intel.com writes:
|>#> The real issue, from my distant perspective in Arizona, is when is
|>#> Pennsic going to get a site large enough that there's no longer a
|>#> need for such limiting limitations on tent/encampement size ?
(I resist the temptation to refer to Dennis as "The O'Connor Don",
really I do!)
(It's a title of the chief of Clan O'Connor, not an insult.)
I'm not sure that such a site exists -- or can be created. Most camping
events of 10,000 people are things like Boy Scout Jamborees. Very
often, they are held in state parks and the like. There's a large state
park near Cooper's Lake. It is a "dry site" - no alcohol allowed. I
don't know who makes it so, but I am given to understand that this is a
common rule.
The things we'd be up against are rules -- dry site, no fires allowed,
no clothing optional swimming hole -- in nearly any government facility.
And, can you imagine the reaction of any commercial camp site - "We only
have 1000 spaces, and you want 15,000 people to attend! No way, Jose!".
Cooper's Lake was 100 spaces for regular camping, according to the AAA
campbook.
The third alternative is the unimproved farmland one - possible, but not
as comfortable as Cooper's Lake.
I think that Pennsic works as well as it does because it has grown on
that site from around 500 to its current size.
Did you know that Pennsic supports the state liquor store in Newcastle?
If it wasn't for August sales of wine and liquor, the store would have
been closed. The supermarket nearest Cooper's Lake stocks whole legs of
lamb in August - and no other time of year.
The total support from Butler County is really good - it flows both
ways. There's a 16 year relationship to build on. The kids who pack
groceries in the supermarkets have seen SCA people every August for a
lifetime - incredible! There's established trust inwith the community
there. 10,000 strangely dressed people would get a lot of communities
really nervous, after all.
Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
This is a virus-free signature
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Serengeti hints....
Date: 12 Aug 1993 02:58:21 GMT
Organization: Bergental, East Kingdom
(John T Dillon) writes:
>Keep lots of water around and drink copious quantities.
>
>If you feel a headache coming on, go shopping, wander the barn, or head
>into the wooded areas where it will be cooler.
And repeat the previous step: Drink water.
>Every year I camped where I had parked the previous year. Last year I parked
>beyond the second hill... Hmmmm....
I love it!
Runestone Hill, as I have heard, use to be the main battlefield.
When I was at Pennsic XIII, I camped on the Old Archery Field, on the far side
of the lake. There were three or four tents there.
In the Woods Battle that year (you all know, the one with the causeway...), at
Resurrection Point there was a little table set up, where they checked you in,
putting a mark in the column of the side that you fought for, to get an idea
of the numbers killed in both sides. Fighters could re-enter the woods at
several different points, one of which was on the edge of the Old Archery
Field.
At Pennsic XIV, one of the competing forces marshalled at the top of the
Runestone Hill before marching down to enter the Woods. Another year, the
attacking force (one force had already entered the woods) mustered on the Old
Archery Field itself.
Of course, now, all three areas are used for camping.
Lyle FitzWilliam, who loves to reminisce every now and then...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Serengeti hints....
Date: 12 Aug 1993 13:21:50 GMT
Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network
(Lyle FitzWilliam) writes:
>Runestone Hill, as I have heard, use to be the main battlefield.
Actually, if you want to go back a bit further, what you call the Old
Archery Field used to be the main battlefield. If I can find them and
find room while packing, I'll take pictures to the Rialto party.
(I'll be late, as Atlantian Court is Thursday night too, and I'm not
missing it!)
--
Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Atlantia
Dennis R. Sherman Triangle Research Libraries Network
dennis_sherman at unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: chanson at marcie.wellesley.edu
Subject: Pennsics past (was: Serengeti hints)
Organization: WELLESLEY COLLEGE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 20:34:03 GMT
Lyle FitzWilliam adds more Survival/Serengeti advice, then goes on:
>Runestone Hill, as I have heard, use to be the main battlefield.
>When I was at Pennsic XIII, I camped on the Old Archery Field, on the far side
>of the lake. There were three or four tents there.
>In the Woods Battle that year (you all know, the one with the causeway...), at
>Resurrection Point there was a little table set up, where they checked you in,
>[...]
>At Pennsic XIV, one of the competing forces marshalled at the top of the
>Runestone Hill before marching down to enter the Woods. Another year, the
>attacking force (one force had already entered the woods) mustered on the Old
>Archery Field itself.
>Of course, now, all three areas are used for camping.
You call that "reminiscing"? Why, young man, *I* was at Pennsic VI, the
first Pennsic at Cooper's Lake. Everyone camped on the one hillside
- dunno what you call it now, from the highest point next to Great Eastern
Highway, down to the woods. We camped around the edges, leaving enough
empty space in the middle for courts, mustering of troops, and the
champions' battles.
'Course in those days, we had *Champion's* Battles: five one-on-one
bouts, each between two champions in a different weapons form; none of
these small armies you kids have nowadays. (Champions' battles nowadays
are bigger than the field battles of the first few Pennsics, but I wasn't
at them!) Heck, one war point was decided by single combat between King
Fernando and King Finnevar - these young pup kings don't do *that* anymore
these days. (Finnevar won.)
And the field battle was in the upper field that's the Tuchux' camp
these days I hear - and it wasn't even worth a war point! And how
do you think the Old Archery Field got its name, anyway, eh?
Now, if you want some *real* reminiscing, who out there has some
good Pennsic IV stories? (Not many, 'cause they've probably already
left for Coopers' Lake.)
Kale/Caleb
(The facts above are true. Only the tone of voice has been altered
for dramatic effect.)
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsics past
Date: 12 Aug 1993 17:14:22 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
chanson at marcie.wellesley.edu writes:
]You call that "reminiscing"? Why, young man, *I* was at Pennsic VI ...
All right, I'm a "young man". No argument. But I also happen to be one of
three people who's been active for the longest period of time in my barony
(one of the two others is the Baroness...)
]first Pennsic at Cooper's Lake. Everyone camped on the one hillside
]- dunno what you call it now, from the highest point next to Great Eastern
]Highway, down to the woods.
It's called "Runestone Hill" or "Runestone Field", depending on whom you ask.
]Heck, one war point was decided by single combat between King
]Fernando and King Finnevar - these young pup kings don't do *that* anymore
]these days. (Finnevar won.)
Now, _that_ would be interesting to see.
]And the field battle was in the upper field that's the Tuchux' camp
]these days I hear - and it wasn't even worth a war point! And how
]do you think the Old Archery Field got its name, anyway, eh?
Well, I hadn't heard the first part, but I _did_ know how the Old Archery
Field got its name (even though a yunker, I still know _some_ things... ;-) )
]Now, if you want some *real* reminiscing, who out there has some
]good Pennsic IV stories? (Not many, 'cause they've probably already
]left for Coopers' Lake.)
I picked up a few from Sir Emric last weekend, including an additional piece
to the story about Angus dubh MacTarbh (ah, close enough spelling, I guess)
and his famous fall into the mud while wearing a pig-faced bascinet. Seems
that Angus had actually tried to fall _backwards_, but there was a sapling
behind him that bent backwards, and then threw him onto his face.
>Kale/Caleb
Lyle FitzWilliam (who's perfectly content to be called a "young man")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
--(My opinions are my own, and do not represent my employer's opinions)--
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Subject: Re: Pennsics past
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 18:55:31 GMT
Greetings!
If you want to see a whole slew of these early Pennsic stories,
stop by the Eoforwic camp (if it actually exists this year--our
location is so bad that people are baling like crazy) and ask for Duke
Finvarr himself. Ask him to tell you about his umbrella and Pennsic IV.
Also, if you can lay your hands on a copy, the book from Pennsic XX
had a whole history of Pennsic in it....
Regards
Nicolaa/Susan
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: chanson at marcie.wellesley.edu
Subject: Re: Pennsics past
Organization: WELLESLEY COLLEGE
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 02:50:51 GMT
Lyle FitzWilliam writes:
>chanson at marcie.wellesley.edu writes: [that's me]
>]first Pennsic at Cooper's Lake. Everyone camped on the one hillside
>]- dunno what you call it now, from the highest point next to Great Eastern
>]Highway, down to the woods.
>It's called "Runestone Hill" or "Runestone Field", depending on whom you ask.
No, no, not the Runestone Field hill, the other one, on the other side
of the big ditch/pond/rough terrain. (I may have confused you by citing
the wrong road name. We didn't have road names in the old days. We
didn't have roads!) Runestone Field was all mundane territory, as was
everything except our side of the one hill (even the other face - north
or west-facing? - of our hill was mundane campers and RV's).
>]Heck, one war point was decided by single combat between King
>]Fernando and King Finnevar - these young pup kings don't do *that* anymore
>]these days. (Finnevar won.)
>Now, _that_ would be interesting to see.
Frankly, I think it would be a good thing in many ways. Among other
things, of all the war points it would be over fastest. Among the drawbacks,
it would be impossible now for all interested parties to watch it.
>I picked up a few from Sir Emric last weekend, including an additional piece
>to the story about Angus dubh MacTarbh (ah, close enough spelling, I guess)
>and his famous fall into the mud while wearing a pig-faced bascinet. Seems
>that Angus had actually tried to fall _backwards_, but there was a sapling
>behind him that bent backwards, and then threw him onto his face.
Certainly a close enough spelling. I seem to recall that that particular
fall happened at Pennsic V. (Just because there was mud doesn't mean it
had to be Pennsic Pour. We had plenty of mud in the old days. Then later
we got stew, and taxes.) (That's a literary allusion, for them young folks
what don't read the classics.) But I could be wrong, and it's a good story
either war.
>Lyle FitzWilliam (who's perfectly content to be called a "young man")
Kale/Caleb (who means no offense, and is glad Lyle takes none)
From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic population
Date: 15 Sep 1993 13:31:02 -0400
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto
PA142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>But I am not comfortable with excluding the founders of Pensic, which we seem
>to have taken over, by adding additional rules to the event. I'll certainly
>not call anyone's honor into question, but I am not comfortable with it.
Chew on this. Pennsic was founded as an SCA event and held at sites
around Ohio and western Pennylvania. The site moved almost every
year. Dagan found the Cooper's Lake campground -- I don't know how,
nor do I especially care. For several years, Pennsic coexisted with
other campers, mostly equipped with sailboats, not bunny-fur.
Eventually Pennsic War took over the site.
The Tuchucks have also been renting Cooper's Lake (though not, I don't
believe, the whole site) for years for having Tuchuk events. They
still do, so far as I know.
Perhaps a Tuchuck buddy told Dagan about Cooper's, leading him to make
inquiries which led to renting the site. Big deal. If a WWI
re-enactor had told him, would we be morally bound to allow
Lee-Enfield rifles? Of course not. Perhaps the Tuchucks started to
rent space from the Cooper's before Pennsic VI. So what -- so did a
lot of people.
Get a grip on the facts before you start to agonise about fine points
of moral obligation.
Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: "Michael Squires" <mikes at cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Pennsic history (was Re: Pennsic population
Keywords: Pennsic
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 11:23:01 -0500
Susan Clark <sclark at epas.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> The Tuchux did not invent Pennsic. There were at least fofour
>or five Pennsics held at other sites before Cooper's Lake became its
>permanent home. And I have this odd feeling that the story about the 'chux
>"discovering" Cooper's Lake is somewhat of an urban legend. (I've heard
>at least one other story.....) though they may have indeed been using
>Cooper's Lake for their own events before the SCA.
Pennsics I through V were held elsewhere. My understanding is that the
problems with Pennsics IV and V were such that a new site was needed, and
Cooper's Lake Campground was familiar to the SCA through the Barony-Marche
of the Debatable Lands. The BMDL held some events at Cooper's Lake
Campground before Pennsic VI, although Duke Sir Dagan of the Middle was
involved somethow in setting up Pennsic VI. Cooper's Lake was chosen
jointly by the East and the Middle, although apparently the original
agreement has been lost (about four years ago the only agreement still
on record was the agreement between the Exchequers of the East and the
Middle).
The story I was told about the creation of the Tuchux says that Wolf the
Mighty started the Tuchux after some contact with the BMDL as a way of
having fun with some of the best students in his martial arts school.
--
Mike Squires (mikes at cs.indiana.edu) 812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes at cs.indiana.edu 546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Subject: Re: Childrens rules at Pennsic
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 16:36:13 GMT
DSBurns at mke.ab.com (Dennis Burns ) writes:
>1) A s to the BSA/GSA I run a youth group at my local church, I have taken the
>children camping why can't an adult who has taken responsibility for a
>youth not genetically linked to them to pennsic?
Up until about Pennsic XIV or thereabouts Pennsic ran on the same rules as other
events; a minor needed only a minor's waiver which indicated who had been
delegated parental responsiblity. As a result of a number of serious incidents
where minors came to harm or were in real danger of serious harm, plus the
size of the camp (which caused PA local and state authorities to become
interested) the Coopers/Wilvers decided that in order to limit their personal
liabilit