cabbages-msg – 2/8/08
Period cabbages. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, root-veg-msg, artichokes-msg, eggplant-msg, asparagus-msg, salads-msg, peas-msg, mushrooms-msg.
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:59:29 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cook's/peer fear (longish)
> what vegebles in the "brocolli" family, if any, are period? They are all
> technically mustards aren't they?
Yes, they are. Related to cabbages, I believe, also. I remember a huge
argument about this on the UseNet newsgroup rec.food.historic fairly
recently. Modern broccoli seems to be a fairly recent (19th century or
so) development on the part of plant breeders, probably American. The
rumor that it was "invented" by a family named Broccoli is simply
untrue. The plant we now call broccoli-rabe is probably period, though,
although I don't recall any recipes for it offhand. You might check
Platina (I don't own a copy---horrors!) and perhaps the Tacuinum
Sanitatis, which is sort of a medical manual which talks about almost
every conceivable food product available in the late medieval
Mediterranean basin. You may find that the leafy, headless cabbages are
the closest you will get: things like kale and collard greens. Brussels
sprouts, though, are period, I understand. I know that takes a load off
your mind ; ) !
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:55:08 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cauliflower
Uduido at aol.com wrote:
> << But I have seen several period recipes for cauliflower. >>
>
> Where have you seen these? It was my understanding that a lady in England in
> the 1800's went to her garden and spotted a 'white' broccoli among her
> regular broccoli plants. Being the intelligent country gardener that she was,
> she let the plant go to seed and planted the sed the next year producing
> couliflower. From that simple experiment all cauliflower today is descended.
>
> Lord Ras
There are recipes for boiling cauliflower (variously spelled) in late
period sources. Without going through my bookshelves for the specific
sources, I think that such recipes would be found in things like
Dawson's "The Good Huswife's Jewell", Markham's "The English Housewife",
Murrell's "New Booke of Cookerie", or perhaps either Hugh Plat or Digby.
I believe both broccoli and cauliflower are plants of the Mediterranean
Basin, long ignored as weeds, and finally cultivated by the Italians,
originally.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:53:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Russell Gilman-Hunt <conchobar at rocketmail.com>
Subject: SC - cauliflower
[(Oliver de Serres' Le Theatre d'agriculture, 1600)]
includes instructions for growing the less common
kinds [of cabbage] including cauliflower (cauli-fiori),
'as the Italians call it' which are still rather rare
in France...
Wheaton, _Savoring_The_Past_, 1996, p 66
Conchobar
AoA, WOAW, A&S Champion of Three Mountains
Apprentice to Ollamh Lono of Adiantium
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 00:49:47 GMT
From: korny at zikzak.net (Kornelis Sietsma)
Subject: Re: SC - Broccoli & Fennel
On Mon, 4 May 1998 04:20:17 EDT, Kallyr wrote:
>Oh. Please share this recipe. It sounds perfect & simple. Just the original
>is fine.
Ok - this is from the text reprinted in "The Original Mediterranean
Cuisine", so the copyright for the translation may belong to the author of
that book...
The author also made the assumption that "tips of fresh cabbage", in a
recipe entitled "Green Cabbage" probably meant something akin to
broccoli...
Green Cabbage with meat (Cauli Verdi con Carne)
- - Libro Della Cocina
- ----------------
Take the tips of fresh cabbage, and throw them into the boiling pot with
the meat, and boil them; then take them out and put in cold water. Then
take another lot of stock in another pot, and add the white part of fennel;
and when it is time to eat, add the said cabbage to the previous pot, and
bring it to the boil, and then add chicken stock, or oil.
- ----------------
I boiled 2 heads of fennel with about 500g of broccoli per table, in a huge
pot of stock. I boiled them for abour 5 minutes, removed them, washed them
under cold water, and then put them back into the same stock for another 5
minutes. I assumed that the change of stock was superfluous with modern
washed vegetables :)
The second batch of broccoli and fennel I cooked didn't get parboiled first
- - it just took too much time - but they still tasted fine.
- -Korny
- --
Kornelis Sietsma http://zikzak.net/~korny icq: 2039172
e-mail: korny at zikzak.net or korny at a2.com.au
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:27:49 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Broccoli & Fennel
allilyn at juno.com writes:
<< I have often heard prople say that broccoli is not period. If someone has
actual documentation for broccoli >>
This isn't exactly documentation but it works for me. :-) In "Food" by Waverly
Root it says that the word "broccoli" once meant 3 things> 1. Brassica
oleracea italica, 2. B. oleracea botrytis, 3. The flower stalk that pushes up
from the center of any cabbage at the end of it's life (it is edible).
No.1 is broccoli as we know it. No.2 is cauliflower. No.3 is still referred to
as "broccoli" in France.
Apicius was noted for his skill in handling broccoli. Drusus, son of Tiberius
was accused of overindulging in it. Introduced into France by Catherine de
Medici. First known use of the word broccoli in French was in 1560. Broccoli
did not arrive in England until 1720.
Ras
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:12:16 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli & Fennel
Broccoli (Brassica oleracea italica) appears to have been used in Ancient
Rome. Catherine de' Medici is attributed with bringing them to France,
where they became popular in the 17th Century. They became popular in
England in the 18th Century.
Related vegetables are cauliflower (Brassica oleracea botrytis) and brussel
sprouts (Brassica oleracea gemmifera). Cauliflower has been grown since
Roman times. Brussel sprouts are an 18th Century creation.
The primary source for this is Trager's The Food Chronology, so take it with
a grain of salt. I haven't checked Apicius yet, but I would say both
broccoli and cauliflower are period in the context of an Italian meal.
Bear
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:04:19 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli & Fennel
At 9:12 AM -0500 5/6/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
(comments on broccoli snipped)
>Brussel sprouts are an 18th Century creation.
>
>The primary source for this is Trager's The Food Chronology, so take it with
>a grain of salt.
However, Menagier mentions something which sounds pretty similar:
"Heads of cabbage, at the end of grape-harvest. And when the head of this
cabbage, which is in the middle, is removed, pull and replant the cabbage
stalk in new ground, and there will come out large spreading leaves: and a
cabbage holds great place, and these are called Roman cabbages, and eaten
in winter; and from the stalks, if they are replanted, come little cabbages
called sprouts which are eaten with raw herbs and vinegar; and if you have
plenty, they should be well cleaned, washed in hot water, and put to cook
whole with a little water: and then when they are cooked, add salt and oil,
and stir it up thick without water, and put olive oil on in Lent."
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:13:38 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: SC - RE: Recipes as promised (long)
TOMC = The Original Mediterranean Cuisine
<snip of asparagus recipes>
Fennel and Leek TOMC
"Take the white part of the fennel, finely chopped, and fry with a little
white of leek, finely chopped, with oil or salted pork, and add little
water, saffron and salt, and bring to boil, and add beaten egg if desired."
'Salted pork' is pancetta.
Broccoli with Fennel TOMC
"Take the tips of green cabbage, and throw them into the boiling pot with
the meat and boil them; tghen take them out and put in cold water. Then take
abnother lot of stock in another pot and addthe white part of fennel; and
when it is time to eat, add the said cabbage to the previous pot, and bring
it to the boil and then add chicken stock, or oil."
Note the blanch-then-cold-water technique! This one could be easily adapted
fopr vegetarians by using vegetable stock (as per previous discussion). As
an aside, you can add body and "mouth feel" to a veggie stock by using the
cooking water from a pot of beans as a starter/additive. Also adds
nutritional value (the protiens are what make the stock thicken).
Rowan
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:40:33 EDT
From: KKimes1066 at aol.com
Subject: SC - Coleworts---- Caroline help!
<< Or are you thinking of ancestral coles? If so, they still grow
wild along the coasts of England. >>
This is not the information I have. Sylvia Landsberg, in her book "The
Medieval Garden" states: "The lack of a suitable small headed cabbage is not
so important as the loss in England, only recently, of the colewort,
ubiquitous in medieval it's nearest relative being a non-curly kale."
I have found her cross references to by well above par and regard her as an
expert in this field (or garden in this case). If Ras is right then I don't
need to do this project, if he is mistaken then it's full steam ahead.
Percival
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:48:29 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Coleworts---- Caroline help!
> This is not the information I have. Sylvia Landsberg, in her book "The
> Medieval Garden" states: "The lack of a suitable small headed cabbage is
> not so important as the loss in England, only recently, of the colewort,
> ubiquitous in medieval it's nearest relative being a non-curly kale."
>
> Percival
I think you will find Ras is correct. Cabbage is one of the oldest
cultivated plants, so old that a number of variants were in existence by the
time Rome became a world power.
Because they are so wide-spread and all the same species, the loss of a type
of cabbage in English gardens does not denote its extinction, merely a change
in English tastes.
Bear
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:52:56 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: SC - Italian Ren Feast
Hi all from Anne-Marie
Micaylah sez:
> Turnips YEEEEEEAAAACK! One of my three "nightmare" vegetables. Cauliflower
> (in any form) <shudder> and Brocolli (it's ooookay raw).
now, usually I hate it when someone says this to me but....
You haven't tried MY cauliflower! :)
Robert May tells us to boil the collies in milk, which turns the slightly
bitter taste into a delightful sweet nutty flavor. I converted several
collie haters with this one! May dishes it up with boiled chicken and a
tart egg-lemon sauce. Yum!
--AM
Madrone/An Tir
Seattle/Madrone
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:01:51 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Broccoli-a new world food?
HICKS_M at casa.gov.au writes:
<< My allergy (avocado) and most of my sensitivities are new world foods
(tomato, broccoli etc.) so I don't generally bother informing SCA cooks. >>
I strongly suggest that you do inform the cook if broccoli or cauliflower are
a problem with you. Thay are both Old World and period, dating back to at
least Roman times.
Ras
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:43:45 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli-a new world food?
> I knew Cauliflower was - wasn't sure about Broccoli. Was it refered to
> as Broccoli or did it have another name?
>
> Meliora.
They're all varieties of cabbage. I don't have my notes handy, but memory
says they are all believed to be descended from sea kale found on northern
European coasts.
Leafy forms with very small heads came first, then selective breeding
produced cauliflower and broccoli, followed by head cabbage. Brussel
sprouts are the newest variety. There is some question about the precise
introduction of Brussel sprouts, but there is evidence to support its
existence in period.
Bear
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:33:34 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Broccoli - was: SC - Sir Loin...
LYN M PARKINSON wrote:
> So, Master A., did they eat broccoli leaves--which taste like
> broccoli--or eat no broccoli--or...???
Probably what they ate, if at all, was a wild variant along the lines of
broccoli-rabe. Neither Platina nor any Tacuinum Sanitatis I've seen, nor
Apicius, mention broccoli.
(There are references to cauliculae in Apicius, which Flower and
Rosenbaum translate as cabbage, but why wouldn't Apicius use brassica? I
suspect cauliculae, which really translates as "little cabbage stalks",
refers to what we call Brussels sprouts.)
More likely broccoli wasn't widely eaten until the 16th or 17th century,
with the big florette-y broccoli probably coming into being in
California in the late 19th century.
Adamantius
Crown Province of Østgardr, East Kingdom
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:45:36 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Minces
>Hello list,
>
>Could someone please tell me where in Le Menagier de Paris is found the
>recipe for Minces? My copy (by Falconwood Press) is missing several
>pages, most notably page 255, where I suspect the recipe might be, but
>I'm not positive.
>
>Minces is the recipe for brussel sprouts; it's been reprinted in Pleyn
>Delit, but I'm interested in finding the original receipt. The index for
>Le Menagier has no mention of minces, but Pleyn Delit (version 1) says
>its recipe comes from Le Menagier de Paris. Their version reads:
>
>"Minces. Little cabbages called minces are eaten with raw herbs in
>vinegar; and if one has plenty, they are good shelled, washed in hot
>water, and cooked whole with a little water; and when they are cooked,
>add some salt and oil and serve thick, without water, and put olive oil
>on them in Lent."
>
>My thanks! Feel free to write me privately if you'd like to avoid
>cluttering up the list with extra mail!
>
>BTW, is there anyone from Falconwood Press on this list?
>
>Master Huen
>--
>A Boke of Gode Cookery
>http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen.htm
Hello! It's on page 143 of Pichon's edition:
[page 142]
"Porée de minces26 est en saison, de Janvier jusques à Pasques, et encore
après.
Et nota que à faire porée au lait d'amandes, le lait ne doit point estre
coulé par l'estamine; en aucuns autres potages ou à boire, si fait.
Porée noire est celle qui est faite à la ribelette de lart; c'est assavoir
que la porée est esleue, lavée, puis mincée et esverdée en eaue boulant, puis fritte en la gresse des lardons; et puis alaier27 d'eaue chaude frémiant (et dient aucuns, qui la laveroit d'eaue froide, qu'elle seroit plus laide et
noire), puis convient mettre sur chascune escuelle deux lardons.
CHOULX sont de cinq manières: les meilleurs sont ceulx qui ont esté férus
de la gelée, et sont tendres et tost cuis; et en temps de gelée ne les convient point pourboulir, et en temps pluyeux, si. (Et commence à iceulx pour ce que ce sont de celle année les premiers crus, scilicet puis Avril,28 et puis va en descendant vers vendenges, Nouel et Pasques.)
[page 143]
Choulx blanc sont en la fin d'Aoust.
Pommes de chou , sur la fin de vendenges. Et quant la pomme d'icelluy chou
, laquelle est ou milieu, est ostée, l'en arrache et replante en terre nouvelle le tronc de ce chou, et en yssent larges feuilles qui s'espandent: et tient un chou grant place, et l'en appelle iceulx choulx nommés29 choulx Rommains, et sont mengiés en yver; et des troncs, se ils sont replantés, yssent de petits
choulx que l'en appelle minces, que l'en mengue avec les herbes crues en vinaigre; et qui en a foison, ils sont bons esleus, lavés en eaue chaude, et tous entiers mis cuire avec un petit d'eaue: et puis quant ils sont cuis, mettre du sel et de l'uile, et dréciés bien espois sans eaue, et mettre de l'uille d'olive dessus en karesme. Puis y a autres choulx que l'en appelle choulx pasquerés pour ce que l'en les mengue en Pasquerez,30 mais ils sont semés dès Aoust; et quant après la semence ils sont percreus demy-pié de hault, l'en les arrache et plante-l'en ailleurs, et sont souvent arrousés.
Aussi tous les choulx dessusdis sont premièrement semés, puis quant ils
sont creus à demy-pié de hault, sont ostés et replantés.
Et premièrement des pommes, est assavoir que quant icelles pommes sont
effeuillées, eslites et mincées, il les convient très-bien pourboulir, et longuement plus que les autres choulx, car les choulx Rommains se veullent le vert des feuilles dessirer par pesches,31 et le jaune, c'est assavoir les arrestes ou veines,32 [p. 144] escachées33 ou mortier, puis tout ensemble esverder en eaue chaude, puis espraindre et mettre en un pot et de l'eaue tiède, qui n'a assez eaue de char: et puis servir du plus gras et34 de l'eaue de la char, et plusieurs y broient du pain.
Et sachez que choulx veulent estre mis au feu dès bien matin, et cuire très-longuement et plus longuement que nul autre potage, et à bon feu et fort, et doivent tremper en gresse de beuf et non autre, soient pommes ou choulx ou quels qu'ils soient, excepté minces. Sachez aussi que eaue grasse de beuf et de mouton y est propre, mais non mie de porc; celle de porc n'est pas bonne fors pour poreaux.
Après, l'en fait choulx, à jour de poisson, après ce qu'ils sont
pourboulis, cuire en eaue tiède: et
mettre de l'uille et du sel."
The notes for this section are:
[p. 142]