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veal-msg – 2/12/12


Period veal and veal recipes.


NOTE: See also the files: roast-meats-msg, pork-msg, chicken-msg, goat-msg, horse-recipes-msg, lamb-mutton-msg, organ-meats-msg, cattle-msg, livestock-msg, p-pigs-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:12:58 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - I CHALLENGE YOU...


Peldyn at aol.com writes:

<< Is it okay if I try it with regular beef??? >>


Why not? If you are in America real veal is seldom if ever available at the

supermarkets. Any beef that is under a year old can be labeled veal despite

the fact that veal is unweaned cattle. Go figure.


I would suggest soaking it in cold water with a smidgen of salt for at least

24 hr. to remove traces of blood and make the meat less red looking though if

actual meat labeled 'beef is used. While there would be more flavor than with

real veal the looks would be closer and the flavor less pronounced.





Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:38:55 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - beef vs veal in recipes


And it came to pass on 15 Sep 00,, that Serian wrote:

> the topic of veal in Medieval recipes came up.  One part of

> the discussion was that beef might reasonably be used in

> place of veal since in Period it would have been more common

> and reasonable to kill the calf than the full grown cow.  A

> counter to that is that in the same cookery book there are

> recipes for both beef and veal.


The recipes I've seen that give a substitute for veal suggest kid, lamb, or

mutton. This may be because of similarity in taste, or because of

health concerns.  Platina says that veal is healthier than beef.  Lobera

de Avila in his health manual, cites all kinds of medical authorities, such

as Avicenna, to prove that beef is a very unhealthy meat.


Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)



Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:21:25 US/Eastern

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: Re: SC - beef vs veal in recipes


> Lady Brighid,

> Yes, I've seen kid/lamb as alternatives to veal as well.

> Would you please share the health manual you mentioned (full

> name etc.)?


> Serian


Here's the record from the Library of Congress website.


LC Control Number: 97214852  

Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)

Personal Name: Lobera de Avila, Luis, 1480-1551.

Main Title: Banquete de nobles caballeros / Luis Lobera de ¡vila.

Edition Information: 1. ed.

Published/Created: San Sebasti·n : R & B Ediciones, 1996.

Description: 227 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.

ISBN: 8488947593

Subjects: Gastronomy--History--16th century.

Cookery, Spanish--History--16th century.

Series: ColeccÌon Textos gastronÛmicos ; 12.

Variant Series: CollecciÛn de textos gastronÛmicos ; 11

LC Classification: TX641 .L62 1996

Dewey Class No.: 641/.01/3094609031

Other System No.: (OCoLC)37275713


Lobera de Avila was the court physician to the Spanish emperor Carlos V.  His

health manual has commentaries on various foods and their effects on health.  

(Which ones are dry or damp, hot or cold, and how they affect the humors.)  He

quotes a lot of the classical authorities ("Avicenna says that blah blah blah

interferes with digestion and promotes the flow of blah blah blah...").


Anyway, I took a quick look at what he had to say about beef, and none of it

was complimentary.  Platina agrees (of course, he's mostly quoting the same

classical authorities) that beef is not as healthy as veal.





Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:39:55 -0500

From: Patrick Levesque <pleves1 at po-box.mcgill.ca>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Veal Pie, Garlicsauce

To: "Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>"

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


#1: I tried this evening the veal pie from Terence Scully's edition of he

Neapolitan cookery collection (# 71 of the collection).

It's actually a veal and fowl pie. This being just a test I used only

chicken (370 g) and veal (470 g). So almost 2 pounds of meat. According to

the recipes, the meat must first be boiled, then onions and raisins and

spices are added, followed by beaten eggs and verjuice. He mixture is next



As Scully points out, it is not sure whether this is boiled and baked in the

same recipient, or if it is transferred in a pastry shell for the second

step. I chose the second option. Here's the redaction.


I cut the meats in dice-sized cubes, cooked in briefly in melted butter and

oil (instead of veal fat, which I don't have), then added a glass of water,

put a lid on the pan and let everything boil fr a few minutes. Added one

chopped onion and about a quarter of a cup of raisins, along with salt,

pepper, cinnamon and cloves. I let it boil while I beat 2 eggs, which I

added to the mixture, also adding about a third of a cup of verjuice. I then

dumped everything in a (store-bought) 9-inch pastry shell, covered with

another shell, threw in the oven (pre-heated to 350) for 45 minutes.


Final results was declared yummy by my two usual guinea pigs :-) I

purposefully left out the cured ham from the recipe although I can see how

it would add to the taste).


As I'm planning tables of 8 for this feast I'll probably keep the pastry

shells; for a large family reunion I'd need to find a larger recipient and

try it the period way. For the feast I'll try and addquail as well, or

whatever fowl I can get at a decent price in March.


#2: I also prepared a batch of Platina's strongly colored garlic sauce

(crushed almonds [or walnuts], garlic, breadcrumbs, must or cherry juice).

<snip - See sauces-msg - Stefan>





Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:23:14 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Veal, was: Mutton (tolerance question - OP)


Sayyeda al-Kaslaania wrote:

<<< Are there humane veal choices? I see it in some recipes, but my

understanding is like yours. >>>


When I was travelling in al-Andalus (that is, modern Andalucia :-) in

Dec 2000 - Jan 2001 some restaurants served what was called "veal". I

asked about it and it turned out to be range grass-fed young cow, not

captive milk-fed young cow. The meat was not as dark as adult cow,

but not white like the veal I grew up eating, long before I knew how

they were raised.


It may be possible to get that from some butchers in the US...


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:16:46 -0400

From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>

To: yaini0625 at yahoo.com, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Veal, was: Mutton (tolerance question - OP)


On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 8:23 PM,  <yaini0625 at yahoo.com> wrote:

<<< Aren't the calves [for veal] all male too?

Aelina >>>


Usually the calves are male, because there really isn't much use for a

male milk producer ;-) However, experience has shown that in the case

of twin calves, with one being male and the other female, the female

is usually sterile, which again isn't very useful for a milk producing

animal (because the girls need to be bred and calve in order to

produce milk..)


For the feast I helped with in the MK, where I acquired, slaughtered,

butchered, and helped cook a veal calf, the veal calf in question was

a female from just that sort of situation. The farmer I got her from

had decided to raise her for beef, but was happy to get cash instead.

In that case, she was very nicely treated, so I had no objection to

veal in that situation.


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org