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roast-meats-msg - 1/16/08

 

Helpful directions and recipes for roasting meats. Pork Roast, Beef Roast. Medieval recipes.

 

NOTE: See also the files: roast-pork-msg, larding-msg, broths-msg, sauces-msg, cheap-meats-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Wed, 3 May 95 20:37:26 EDT

From: jtn at cse.uconn.edu (J. Terry Nutter)

To: jtn at cse.uconn.edu, markh at sphinx

Subject: Re: Cooking for 50 at Pennsic (was YKYITSCAW)

 

Beef was normally boiled; on the few occasions when it was roasted, it was

partially roasted and then simmered (in sauce usually). The "theory" reason

was that beef was considered (in terms of the humors) to be a very dry

meat, and roasting was the method that most dried; you wanted food to be

moist and warm when eaten, which dictated boiling, and serving with a

sauce (or in a pottage) that was relatively moist (not in the sense of

very liquid, but again, as defined by the theory of the humors, which

dictated what kind of fluids formed the base of the sauce).

 

The reason that people bought this, (i.e. the reason that they didn't

ignore the rules the theory gave) is that what they were eating was

_ox_.  Free range ox at that.  You don't want to roast the stuff.

 

Roast beef largely postdates the agricultural advances of the 18th C

that resulted in developing (in England) a strain of beef cattle that

provided meat incommensurably better than what had gone before.

 

-- Angharad/Terry

 

 

From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter)

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:51:00 -0500

Subject: SC - Roast beef w/"barbecue sauce"

 

Hi all,

 

This weekend I went to the college library and finally found that recipe I teased y'all with.  I'm sorry but I don't have the original recipe with me but I do have the redaction.  I got this from _Fabulous Feasts_ so I'm not sure about how good the source documentation is.  Anyway, the dish is good.

 

                               A Roste

                          Beef Roast with Crisps

 

Ingredients:                                     Batter:

 

4 or more T. oil or butter                       1 c. flour

   for searing meat

5 lbs beef roast tied with                       1 egg

      butcher's cord

1/2 c. flour                                     1/4 t. salt

1 t. dried sweet basil, crushed                  1/2 t. baking powder

1 t. cinnamon                                    1/4 c. chopped parsley

1 t. salt                                        2/3 c. milk

1 t. dried sweet basil

1/2 t. dried rosemary                                    

1/4 t. thyme

1 c. dates, pits removed, cut in half                    

1 c. dried figs, stems removed, cut in strips

1/2 c. dried apple rings, cut in halves

2 T. brown sugar or honey

1 1/2 c. beef stock

 

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

 

In Dutch oven or cast-iron pot (either having tight covers) melt the butter.

Dredge the roast with the mixture of flour, cinnamon, and salt, and thoroughly

sear in the heated butter, browning all sides.

Mix basil, rosemary, and thyme.  Mix spices with combined dates, figs, and apples.

Arrange spiced fruits around the meat.  Sprinkle sugar or drizzle honey on fruits.

Carefully pour on beef stock around edges of the pot so as to avoid "flooding"

any food surfaces.  Cover tightly.

Bake at 350 degrees for 3 hours, or until tender.  Remove from oven to cool for 30 minutes.  Increase oven heat to 450 degrees.

Prepare a very thick batter by vigourously stirring all ingredients, except

parsley.  Add extra flour if necessary.

Add chopped parsley to the batter.

Pour batter over roast allowing the excess to trickle into the gravy. Return the

meat to hot oven for 5 to 10 minutes so that coating browns nicely.

Cut the roast in its dough "jacket" (somewhat reminiscent of the modern "Beef

Wellington")

Serve the "crisps", which formed in the juices, along with the gravy and fruit.

 

This really is very good tasting.

 

Yers,

Gunthar

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:28:43 -0500

From: maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com>

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

Donna Kenton wrote:

> I still can't cook a decent roast beef, not even mundanely.  It's

> something we rarely had as a kid, so I can only cook a pot roast.  Of

> course, it's a wonderful pot roast, but beef by itself is something I

> tend to shy away from -- it's such an expensive mistake.

>

> Any fool proof medieval recipes for a beef roast? I've got a great pork

> roast recipe that I'll trade for it!

>

> Rosalinde

 

OK, this is how I cooked the beef for the roman event. It is not from

any recipe except for what I put together. The ingredients are all

'period'.  I made a rub of herbs, salt, pepper and fresh garlic. I used

top sirloin for the meat.  I rubbed the meat with this mixture and

slashed each roast about 10 times to push the garlic cloves into the

meat.  I then smoked it in my weber (too bad this is not a period item

to cook in...sigh)..over a pan of red wine/fresh rosemary/fresh oregano

and the coals I used are a hardwood charcoal.  I cooked until the meat

until medium rare (I use a meat thermometer to monitor). When the meat

was done, I let it cool for 20 minutes, sliced it up, bagged it and

froze it until the day of the event.  OK, the day of the event, I used a

product called 'Better then Bouillon'. It is a concentrated stock

instead of powdered bouillon. EXCELLENT stuff!  I reconstituted it to

make a beef broth.  Placed the meat in pans and let it heat up in the

stock.  I had people coming back for thirds and fourths. HRM Kein ate

plenty! His server came over at least 3 times for more! Try this, I can

guarantee it will make some excellent roast beef!

 

meadhbh

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:44:29 -0400 (EDT)

From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

Let's start with the basics, and then we can move on to medieval.

 

I use the technique I found in (da-da) Joy Of Cooking. I've not yet found

anything that beats it.  Rub a roast beef with minced garlic, pepper (NO

SALT) and worcestershire sauce.  Preheat your oven to 450 degrees.  Put the

roast in the oven, and immediately reduce the heat to 325, and bake for

12-14 minutes a pound for rare meat.  Use your temperature probe, to check.

(Lightly, lightly grease the pan with butter in advance, to make cleanup

easier.  Place a couple of cloves of garlic and some quartered onions in the

pan too, and use the juice that runs off to make a gravy. If you want

gravy, keep the glass pan as small as possible, and put the meat down so it

is kind of like a can on a counter, narrow end touching the pan.)

 

I may drizzle the meat with wine as it cooks, if it appears to be dry.

 

Note for the advanced: if I use a glass pan for the beef, I turn the

temperature down a tad further.  Ovens heat up, and cool down in a cycle:

but a pyrex or glass pans have such high heat indices that they keep the

heat, and keep the temperature of the meat higher than an aluminum pan

would.

 

Remove the roast when done, let it stand on the counter for 10-20 minutes

while you rescue the pan drippings for gravy, slice at the end of the time

period, and serve.  YUM.  Gravy, for me, is taking the pan, deglazing with

wine, using a non-period roux and serving.

 

I've had a wonderful marinade, about 3 times, made of South Keype Jalapeno

wine and garlic.  Very nice.  Soak the RB in the wine and minced garlic for

about 2 hours at room temperature before cooking.

 

      Tibor

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:40:01 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

At the risk of seeing all my perfectly good pompous pontification about

period cookery go to waste, I'd advise making sure you have an

appropriate cut for roasting. Despite what the supermarket, with their

generally odd sense of humor, says, this usually includes neither chuck

nor bottom round. But wait! There's more! Make sure there is at least

SOME fat on the outside. Health considerations notwithstanding, it

usually provides for a tastier roast.

 

If you are lucky enough to have a good butcher, you could ask him to

bard the roast, which involves wrapping the roast in paper-thin slices

of pork fat. It helps keep the meat moist, and can be removed after

cooking. If you have an insane butcher, like I have (but also am) you

can ask for it to be larded. This introduces the fat inside the meat,

and means that a tough piece of meat can be cooked for a long time (till

tender) without drying out.

 

In general, though, I'd say the thing to do is to season the meat highly

on the outside with salt and pepper, slivers of garlic, etc. Your call.

Put in a pan on a rack or on a bed of chopped carrots, onions, and

celery (1:2:1) Roast for 20 minutes at around 400 degrees F., then lower

the heat to 350 or 375 degrees F., and roast for 18-20 minutes per pound

of beef. 18 for rare, 20 and up for more well done. About 45 minutes or

half an hour before your impeccable math says it will be done, check

with a meat thermometer. Unless it is a really small piece of meat (like

under 2 pounds), it will continue to cook after it is out of the oven.

 

So, take it out when the thermometer reads 110-120 degress F. for rare

(the temperature will go up to around 140, which is really the

temperature for rare beef.

 

120-130 will carry over to about 145-150 for medium rare / medium.

 

140 or so will get you 155-160 for medium well.

 

Anything above that will get you well done beef (gag!)

 

Hope this helps! You can mess around with things like seasoned fresh

bread crumbs or flour, usually applied sometime during the cooking

process, but these aren't essential, and you should probably experiment

with these when you are feeling confident. (Sorry, Aoife!!!)

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:51:12 -0400 (EDT)

From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

> If you are lucky enough to have a good butcher, you could ask him to

> bard the roast, which involves wrapping the roast in paper-thin slices

> of pork fat. It helps keep the meat moist, and can be removed after

> cooking. If you have an insane butcher, like I have (but also am) you

> can ask for it to be larded. This introduces the fat inside the meat,

> and means that a tough piece of meat can be cooked for a long time (till

> tender) without drying out.

 

Barding.  oooohhhmmmm  Larding.   ooohhhmmmm  (For bizarreness, try wrapping

with fatty prosciuto.   ooohhhhmmmm, or bacon. oooohhmmmm)

 

God, I am drooling.  This is gross.

 

Larding is not that hard to do, if you have some slightly dull large sized

stainless steel nails.  DO NOT go to the hardware store and by Galvanized or

Dipped nails.  Poison is bad for you.

 

If you are a purist, blunt the tip of the nail slightly. (If it is sharp,

it will tear the fibers of the meat).  Make a hole, put a tiny ball of lard

at the opening, and push the lard down into the meat. Vary the location and

depth.

 

God.  All I have here is some instant cous-cous.  I think I'll die.  Must

Eat Now.

 

      Tibor (Crazed Vegetarian on the Loose)

 

 

Date: 31 Jul 97 16:10:21 -0400

From: "SUZANNE_POWELL" <SUZANNE_POWELL at aspentec.com>

Subject: SC - Roast Beef Recipe

 

As I've said before, I'm an absolute novice at medieval cooking, but I wanted

to share the following roast recipe with you.  The accompaniment was homemade

mashed potatoes (are they period?) and garlic seasoned green beans (same

question).

Because of my budget constraints, I had to use a "pot roast" cut of beef, but

this should work well for the real thing, too.

Burgundy Roast

- --------------

First (the night before you cook your roast) mix together the following

marinade (you may need to adjust amounts depending on the size of your roast,

mine was about 6 pounds, and time according to the tenderness of your beef):

      1/4 c. burgundy wine

      2 tbsp. virgin olive oil

      1/4 c. minced onion

      1 tbsp. minced garlic

      1 tbsp. minced carrots

      1 tbsp. dried rosemary, crumbled

Pierce your roast all over using a fork, then place in one of those nifty oven

roasting bags and pour your marinade over the top. Seal the bag and place in

the refrigerator. The bag should be turned several times so that the marinade

has a chance to reach all surfaces of your beef.

I served the finished roast with a garnish of grilled portobello mushrooms. If

you want to do the same, make another batch of the marinade to use on the

mushrooms, place the mushrooms in a glass dish, pour the marinade over the

mushrooms and place in the refrigerator at the same time you put in the roast.

When you turn the roast/bag over, turn the mushrooms over too.

The next evening, while your roast is cooking (about 1/2 an hour before you

plan on taking it out of the oven), slice 2 or 3 onions thinly and cook them

slowly over the stove using virgin olive oil until they are caramelized.

By the time the onions are done, it should be time to take the roast out of

the oven. Take the roast out to rest and turn on the broiler. Put in your

portobello mushrooms (reserve the marinade) and grill for about 5 minutes on

each side.

Use the reserved drippings from your roast and your leftover mushroom marinade

for the gravy.  I started out with a basic roux (not period, I've just found

out), added beef bouillon to the roux and cooked for a few minutes, then added

the drippings and reserved marinade. Rounded out the sauce by adding about 1/2

to 1 cup of burgundy wine.

This turned out really well -- even using the cheap cut of meat.

Your thoughts?

- -- Suzanne

****************************************

** Lady Suzanne de la Ferte, AoA      **

** Scribe and Illuminator             **

** Stargate, Ansteorra                **

** suzanne.powell at aspentech.com       **

****************************************

 

 

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 03:25:11 -0500

From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

Hi, Katerine here.  Rosalinde asks for medieval recipes for beef roast.  The

following are two recipes the use roast beef that I am particularly fond

of.  In both cases, you want to be very sure that you use a good grade of

roast.  (Making them for myself, I use a standing rib or ribeye.)  

 

Auter brawn en peuerade

(Two Fifteenth Century, H279 Potage Dyvers xxxii)

 

This is roast beef served with a peverade sauce (i.e. a sauce which includes

and tastes of pepper), in which the beef is simmered to finish cooking.  The

meat is served cut up in small pieces in the sauce.  The "auter" in the name

means "other"; this recipe is the second of two in a row for meat in peverade

sauce (and to my mind, by far the better).

 

Recipe:

 

Take myghty brothe of Beef or of Capoun, and thenne take clene Freysshe Brawn,

and sethe it, but not y-now; An ghif if be Freysshe Brawn, roste it, but not

I-now, and then leche it in pecys, and caste it to the brothe.  An thanne take

hoole Oynonys, & pylle hem, an thanne take Vynegre ther-to, and Canelle, and

sette it on the fyre, an drawe yt thorw a straynoure, and caste ther-to; then

take Clowys, Maces, and powder Pepyr, and caste ther-to, and a lytil Saynderys,

an sette it on the fyre, an let boyle tylle the Oynonys an the Brawn ben euyne

sothyn, an nowt to moche; than take lykoure y-mad of Bred an Vinegre an Wyne,

an sesyn it vp, an caste ther-to Saffroun to make the coloure bryth, an Salt,

an serue it forth.

 

In more modern English:

 

Take a strong beef or chicken broth, and then take clean fresh meat, and boil

it, but not completely.  And if it be fresh meat [i.e. not salted], roast it,

but not completely, and then slice it in pieces, and put it in the broth.  And

then take whole onions, and peel them [and put them in the pot], and then add

in vinegar, and cinnamon, and set it on the fire, and draw it through a

strainer, and put it in.  Then take cloves, mace, and ground pepper, and add

them, and a little saunders, and put it on the fire, and let boil til the

onions and the meat are fully boiled, and not too much. Then take liquid made

of bread and vinegar and wine, and season it up, and add saffron to make the

color bright, and salt, and serve it forth.

 

Amounts as I make it:

2 lb standing rib roast, less bones 1 tsp pepper

1 can beef broth + 1/2 can water   1/4 tsp saunders

3 med. large onions, quartered           6 slices bread

1 T vinegar                     1 T vinegar

1 tsp cinnamon                  1/4 cup red wine

1/4 tsp cloves                  2 lg pinches saffron

1/4 tsp mace                   

 

Step-by-step:

1.    Preheat oven to 550¡.

2.    Put in roast and turn down immediately to 350¡.

3.    Roast 15 minutes to the pound.

4.    Cut into bite-sized slices.  (Try not to make it look like chunks, to

      make it clearer to modern eyes that this is really a roast with sauce,

      not a stew.)

5.    Put in a pot with ingredients through saunders, and simmer until meat

      is cooked and tender (how long this takes will depend on how much you

      make; for this amount, about 10 minutes is usually enough.)

6.    Trim crusts off bread.

7.    Put bread into blender with wine, vinegar, and broth from the pot.

      Blend until smooth, then stir mixture back into the pot.

8.    Taste; add salt if needed, and any other spices you think it needs (if

      you can't taste the pepper, add more now).

9.    Grind saffron (or break into little crumbs in the palm of your hand),

      and stir in.  When the saffron is fully mixed in, it is ready to serve.

 

Notes:

 

As often happens with medieval recipes, the order of operations gets a little

confused in places.  What you are doing is this.  First, partially cook your

meat; if it is fresh, you may roast it; for salt meat, boil it.  Next, cut it

into bite-sized pieces.  (Medievals never delivered meat in larger than

bite-sized pieces to diners; it was cut up, either in the kitchen or at table

by a carver, to simplify eating.)  Then put the meat and some peeled onions

(the recipe says whole ones; I either use pearl onions or quarter regular ones)

into a pot of strong broth.  Season.  (The straining part is to avoid lumps of

cinnamon, which would be freshly ground in a medieval kitchen.)  Boil until the

meat and onions are fully cooked, but not longer, or you will kill the spices.

Then thicken, correct seasoning, color, and serve.

 

The list of ingredients above calls for a very fine cut of beef, which you may

not be able to afford.  Be sure to try out your recipe on a small scale with

any changes, including in cut.  Different cuts may need very different

treatment; some inexpensive cuts may do far better initially boiled than

roasted.  To retail a browner look, sear the meat in a pan before boiling.

 

This is wonderful!  I suspect it might be even better the second day, but there

has never been any left over.  It looks undistinguished to a modern eye,

though.  You might try leaving the outer slices out until you are ready to

serve, and then arranging them artistically to make the point that it's roast,

not stew.

 

Rappe

(Taillevent 27, 76/283)

 

This is a roast and fried beef in gravy with grapes.

 

In this, material in brackets is from alternative MS traditions; the

translation is Scully's; notes in curly braces are mine. I have put the

English first, with the French original after for comparison.

 

Receipt:

[Sear your meat on the spit, then]  fry your meat in bacon grease { note:

literally lard }; steep bread in beef broth, strain and throw it over your meat;

grind ginger, infuse it in verjuice and wine, and put it over your meat; then

get currants or verjuice grapes [boiled in water] and set the meat in this

[var: use these as a garnish when the meat is served in bowls].

 

[Mecter vostre grain halez en broches, puis] Mettez vostre grain souffrire en

sain de lart; puis prenez du pain et mettez tremper en boullon de beuf et

passez parmy l'estamine et gectez sur vostre grain; puis affinez gingembre,

deffaictes de verjus et de vin, et mettez sur vostre grain; puis prennez de

groiselles ou de verjus en grain et mettez dedans.

 

Amounts as I make it:

 

1 1/2 lb ribeye roast       4 T white grape juice +

1 T lard or shortening            1/2 tsp lemon juice

3 slices bread            1 T white wine

1 cup beef broth (undiluted) 3 T currants

1 tsp ginger              1 1/2 cup grapes

 

Step-by-step:

1.    Preheat oven to 550¡.

2.    Put in roast and turn down immediately to 350¡.

3.    Roast 15 minutes to the pound.

4.    Cut into strips and fry in lard or shortening.

5.    When cooked, lower temperature and add other ingredients.

6.    Soak bread in broth.

7.    Take bread out and squeeze through strainer into meat.  (Discard what

      won't go through the strainer.)  Alternatively, run it through the

      blender until smooth.

8.    Mix grape juice, lemon juice, wine, and ginger until ginger dissolves.

9.    Add fluid and ginger mix to meat.

10.    Cut grapes in half.

11.    Add currants and grapes to meat.

12.    Increase heat and simmer until sauce thickens.  

 

Notes:

 

"Rappe", or "rapey" in English cuisine, seems originally to have referred

dishes with fresh grapes as an ingredient or garnish; sometimes, we see raisins

instead.  This rappe is roast beef with a gravy garnished with currants and

verjuice (sour) grapes.  Verjuice grapes being no longer readily available, I

have substituted table grapes.

 

Verjuice, which the recipe calls for, was sour fruit juice, usually (but not

invariably) from verjuice grapes.  Sometimes you can find it in oriental food

stores, or so friends tell me.  I have not been able to, and so usually use

white grape juice, with some lemon juice added for tartness.

 

This is another dish that's so good, I've never had a chance to find out how it

is on the second day.

 

Cheers,

- -- Katerine/Terry

 

 

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:36:34 -0500

From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Subject: Re: SC - chicken on string (and beef)

 

Hi, Katerine here.  Lark Miller writes:

 

>The key to cooking good roast beef is slow cooking and keeping it well

>covered so the juices don't boil out but stay inside to baste the roast.

>My Dad makes roast that melts in your mouth.

 

Actually, I don't think there's a single key to cooking good roast

beef.  My personal impression is that the best method depends on the

cut of the beef.

 

I adore the very expensive cuts oven roasted.  For lesser cuts, I'm

fonder of various pot roasting techniques.  The more expensive the

cut, the less important slow cooking is.

 

The reason a number of recipes start with preheating the oven very hot

is to sear the outside, which seals in the juices and provides a bit of

a crusty exterior.  Not nearly what you get with expert spit roasting,

but probably as close as you can come in an oven.

 

I tend to like to sear the meat in a pan, regardless whether I pot or

oven roast, if I have a cut that won't stand up to searing to 550 and

then cooking in a falling oven that settles to 350.  The searing not

only seals in the juices, but gives a better appearance and provides

a tasty exterior.

 

But there's nothing like a top quality roast... no matter how you cook it.

 

Cheers,

- -- Katerine/Terry

 

 

Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 17:21:03 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string

 

Mark Harris wrote:

> Last Thursday, July 31, Tibor described how to cook a modern roast:

>

> This sounds wonderful, but I don't understand some of his description.

>

> >Remove the roast when done, let it stand on the counter for 10-20 minutes

> >while you rescue the pan drippings for gravy, slice at the end of the time

> >period, and serve.  YUM.  Gravy, for me, is taking the pan, deglazing with

> >wine, using a non-period roux and serving.

>

> Pray tell, what does this last sentence mean? What is deglazing? What is

> a roux?

 

This is some of that Evil French Culinary Technology at work. When you

cook just about anything by sauteeing, roasting, or boiling, there are

likely to be juices in the pan which cook down to a thick, slightly

sticky glaze or crust at some parts of the pan. Deglazing is the

dissolving and removal of this (usually flavorful) stuff from the bottom

of the pan. Classically, this is usually done with water, stock, wine,

or some combination thereof, but every so often you find fairly odd

things like milk, coffee, or even Coca Cola being used. This deglazed

pan juice can then be cooked down to a uniformly thick, syrupy sauce, or

it can be thickened with roux.

 

Roux comes in various colors and flavors, but the most common forms are

white, blonde, and brown (in some extreme cases, red) roux. The most

basic roux is made from some kind of fat like butter or oil, heated, to

which flour is added to make a smooth paste. You then cook this paste to

the desired color (which also affects the taste of it), and whisk it

into a liquid to thicken it. It not only thickens this liquid as it

approaches a simmer or a boil, but if you have something like milk which

is liable to curdle, it can help stabilize it and keep it smooth. Roux

seems to have entered the European culinary repertoire sometime in the

17th century.

 

One of the things I find especially interesting is the fact that various

sauces and pottages in medieval European cuisines seem almost always to

be thickened with breadcrumbs, although several recipes do call for

other thickeners like rice flour and wheat starch. It's ironic because

today, when people can't be bothered making a roux, they usually make a

slurry of cornstarch mixed with a little water. Full circle, and all

that.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:24:21 -0400 (EDT)

From: rebecca tants <becca at servtech.com>

Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string

 

> >Remove the roast when done, let it stand on the counter for 10-20 minutes

> >while you rescue the pan drippings for gravy, slice at the end of the time

> >period, and serve.  YUM.  Gravy, for me, is taking the pan, deglazing with

> >wine, using a non-period roux and serving.

>

> Pray tell, what does this last sentence mean? What is deglazing? What is

> a roux?

 

Deglazing the pan is the act of pouring some liquid (wine usually or stock)

into the hot pan over a burner and using it to pull up the juices and drippings

from the pan.  Often this means a little scraping, but if it's nice and hot

this will also let much of the browned on bits melt back into the liquid.

You do this to get the taste of the juices into your gravy.  If the meat

was fatty, pour off the fat first.

 

Roux's are a bit more complicated, mostly because what mom does is very

different from what the classical french who gave it a name do.  I'm guessing

that the above was refering to the mom form, but here's both.....

 

A mom Roux (prounounced Roo, same as my name) is a mixture of a thickening agent

(flour, cornstarch, arrowroot) and some liquid.  It's combined until

smooth.  you then add some of the hot liquid from the pan to make sure

it stays smooth before pouring it in and letting it thicken your sauce

with a bit more stirring and cooking.  This is mom cooking theory.

 

NOW, I have been told that while this is the roux I was taught, the PROPER way

involves a fat (butter usually) and the flour or starch - you melt the

butter in the pan, stir in the flour and cook briefly - how long depends on

what you are making - a light roux for white sauces (cheese sauces and such) or

a darker one for darker sauces.  This is classical french cooking theory.

My understanding of the cooking of the starch here is to get the starch taste

out of it - have you ever  had floury gravy?  this process is supposed to get

rid of that taste.

 

You also do similar things in soups at times - my favorite french onion

soup recipe calls for sauteeing the onions in a mix of butter and olive

oil almost forever, and then adding some flour to the mix and cooking it for

a couple moments - this will bind the soup, thicken it a bit and the cooking

before adding the broth is supposed to take the floury taste out.

 

My mom always used the first method - some flour and water in a tupperware

tub, shake until smooth, add to gravy.  I've found that adding some of the hot

liquid in first keeps it from lumping up.  I primarily use the latter

method when I'm making cheese sauces and other kinds of more formal sauces.

 

Julia Child's "The Way to Cook" gives examples of why you might want to

use either kind of Roux, but in the end it's preference and ease of

cooking.  Since after I deglaze the pan I always transfer the liquid to

a real frying pan anyway, either would work.

 

Ruadh (yes, that's prounounced Roo, no matter how much "Rude" sounds correct :-)

-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-

    Becca Tants, aka Roo, Lady Caitlen Ruadh, Delftwood, AEthelmearc, East

    becca at servtech.com               http://www.servtech.com/public/becca

-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-

 

 

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 08:31:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string

 

>I've had a wonderful marinade, about 3 times, made of South Keype Jalapeno

  >wine and garlic.  Very nice.  Soak the RB in the wine and minced garlic for

  >about 2 hours at room temperature before cooking.

  

  This sounds wonderful, too. This is a wine that has jalapeno juice in it?

  I think you are saying to marinate the roast in the wine and minced garlic,

  then pour off the juice and roast as above. Or do you not pour off the

  excess?

 

They made a "Jalapeno wine".   Chop and seed about a pound of jalapeno,

cover with a gallon of water, and add corn sugar and yeast.  Every few days,

add another cup of corn sugar.  When it stops fermenting, it is done.  But

very sharp.  Let it age about 6 weeks to 6 months.

 

The result is a very intensely jalapeno flavored wine.

 

Marinate the meat in the roast and minced garlic, and then remove from the

marinade and roast as above.

 

      Tibor

 

 

Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:03:05 -0700

From: kat <kat at kagan.com>

Subject: SC - re:  cheap meats/marinating

 

"Melissa Martines" <melissa.martines at mail.corpfamily.com> writes:

>      What cut of meat should I try to buy that would be relatively cheap,

>      but not tough?

 

and filip o'the marche gives several suggestions, including:

 

> marinade the meat

      most marinades will tenderize the meat.

      vinegar, onion juice, and other components all help break it down.

 

My secret:  Cheap wine.  Really cheap wine.  Very acidic (acid tenderizes the meat) and, coincidentally, inexpensive too...

 

My favorite "roast" wine is Carlo Rossi burgundy ($3.99 to the half-gallon).  If you marinate meat in it overnight it will be a bilious ugly purplish color; but it will taste GLORIOUS....

 

My favorite cut of meat (esp. when I'm doing a roast): Cross-rib.  Very nice (when cooked right) and surprisingly inexpensive.  Your butcher should cut it for you in whatever incarnation you wish.  I usually just make the whole roast

 

btw, another friend of mine SWEARS by blackberry Manischewitz as a roasting wine.  She also recommends fruit, as brid hecgwiht suggests.

 

Just my US$.02

 

      - kat

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:35:00 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Help me Please!

 

<snip>

 

O.K. Thanks for the citation Gunthar! - Here it is paraphrased from

Fabulous Feasts, by M.P. Cosman, p. 165:

 

A Roste (Beef Roast with Crisps)

 

4 or more Tablespoons oil or butter

5 lbs. beef roast, tied with butcher's cord

1/2 c. flour

1 tsp cinnamon

1 tsp salt

1 tsp dried sweet basil, crushed

1/2 tsp dried rosemary, crushed

1/4 tsp thyme

1 c. pitted dates, halved

1 c. dried figs, stems removed, sliced

1/2 c. dried apple rings, halved

2 Tablespoons brown sugar or honey

1 1/2 c. beef stock

 

Batter: 1 c. flour

1 egg

2/3 c. milk

1/4 tsp salt

1/2 scant tsp baking powder

1/4 c. chopped fresh parsley, crushed

 

preheat oven to 350 degrees.  Dredge roast in mixture of flour, cinnamon &

salt & sear in oil in dutch oven.  Mix herbs & dried fruits & arrange

around the roast.  Add sugar or honey, and beef stock. Cover tightly &

bake at 350 degrees for 3 hours, or until tender.  Remove from oven & let

sit 30 min.  Meanwhile combine batter ingredients & pour over roast.   Bake

at 450 degrees for 5 to 10 min. or until crust is browned.

 

BTW, this title has been re-printed.  I love the illustrations!

 

Cindy/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:25:44 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - help oop

 

Peter93835 at aol.com wrote:

> I have a boneless botom blade beef roast of 1.5 pounds, how do I cook it .

> It need not to be period or anaything, it just need to be cooked . I have an

> oven and the needed pots, some buter, salt and pepper, litle garlic and

> runing water. All I need is a simple recipe.

 

Bottom blade is, I believe, part of the shoulder structure or chuck. You

might be better off braising this. General instructions for braising (or

pot-roasting) would be to brown the meat (either whole or in chunks as

for stew) in a wide pan, in some butter. Take your time, as you don't

want the butter to burn, but you want the meat to get good and brown on

the outside. Transfer the meat to a pot just big enough to hold it

comfortably. Bigger pot equals more liquid, which means more gravy but

tasteless meat.

 

Deglaze your browning pan with a little boiling water (in other words,

pour some liquid into the pan, over the heat, and gently scrape off the

brown gunk that is probably stuck there). This will flavor your cooking

liquid, and also make it easier to wash the pan. Pour this brown water

over the meat in the other pot and top off the pot with enough liquid to

just cover the meat. Flavorful liquids are best for this, like stock,

wine or beer, or tomato juice, or some combination, but water will

certainly do in a pinch. Add any flavorings you want to, and have, to

the cooking liquid, except for salt, which you should add at the end,

when you know how much liquid you've got. Bring to a boil quickly over

high heat, then lower the heat so the liquid is simmering gently, and

let it go, partially covered, for about ninety minutes, or until tender.

You may or may not want to stir in a pat of butter into your gravy

before serving. This will enrich it and thicken it ever so slightly.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:59:25 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - help oop

 

<< Add any flavorings you want to, and have, to

the cooking liquid, except for salt, which you should add at the end,

when you know how much liquid you've got. Bring to a boil quickly over

high heat, then lower the heat so the liquid is simmering gently, and

let it go, partially covered, for about ninety minutes, or until tender.

You may or may not want to stir in a pat of butter into your gravy

before serving. This will enrich it and thicken it ever so slightly.

Adamantius >>

 

If I could be so bold..........the addition of a carrot quartered, an onion

studded with 2 whole cloves, 1 small bay leaf and a stalk of celery cut into

large chunks would greatly improve the finished product. Simply remove the

vegies and either discard or serve as a garnish at the end of the cooking

process but before the gravy making. :-)

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:57:24 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - help oop

 

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> If I could be so bold..........the addition of a carrot quartered, an onion

> studded with 2 whole cloves, 1 small bay leaf and a stalk of celery cut into

> large chunks would greatly improve the finished product. Simply remove the

> vegies and either discard or serve as a garnish at the end of the cooking

> process but before the gravy making. :-)

 

Of course. I omitted those ingedients only because the gentleman listed

what was available to him, and those items weren't among them. For

preference a whole head of garlic, unpeeled, a bit of tomato, some red

wine, and some dried porcinis would be the way to go, in my view. You

push the head of garlic through a food mill at the end of the cooking

process, and the puree thickens the sauce.

 

But certainly, aromatic vegetables are always a good idea when braising

meats, and no one seems to have really improved on the basic mirepoix

veg combo, for flavor.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:15:43 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Roast Meats & Dry spice rubs

 

>I am looking for information on whether roast meat would have been rubbed

>with a dry mix of herbs & spices before roasting to enhance the flavor as

>we do today. Has anyone seen any recipes that mention rubbing meat with a

>mix of herbs and spices prior to roasting?

>

>Clarissa

 

Yes.  Off the top of my head, I remember there's one in Sabina Welserin's

CB, and another in Epulario for a variation on the same dish.  Types of

'beef olives' rubbed with  herb/spice mixtures.

 

Cindy/Sincgiefu

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:26:25 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Roast beef

 

> I am curious if anyone has a source for period roast beef recipes. This item

> has been mentioned numerous times on the list and so far as I know there are

> no medieval recipes for roasted beef. All the recipes I am aware of using beef

> as an ingredient are boiled dishes. Any help in this area would be most

> appreciated. Thanks in advance.

>

> Ras

 

I've a transcript of Ein Alemannisches Buchlien von guter Speise which has a

number of recipes for Braten, nominally roast beef, but with a possible

interpretation of roasts in general.  I haven't translated any of the

recipes yet, so I can't give you any details.

 

IIRC, the book is mid-15th Century, about a century later than Ein Buch von

Guter Speise.

 

I haven't found a translation, so I'll probably get to display the

mediocrity of my language skills in translating it.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:38:10 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Roast beef

 

<< I am curious if anyone has a source for period roast beef recipes. This item

has been mentioned numerous times on the list and so far as I know there are

no medieval recipes for roasted beef. All the recipes I am aware of using beef

as an ingredient are boiled dishes >>

 

Check "a Drye Stewe of Beef" in Pleyn Delit.  I can't look up the original

right now, as my lord unpacked that box and I don't know what he did with that

book...

Basically, you put the meat in a pot, but raised on splints; pour a small

amount of red wine over it (nowhere near enough to cover it), sprinkle with

whole spices (mace, cloves, peppercorns) and roast.  I suppose it could be

redacted to boiling it in wine, but would it them be called a "drye" stewe?

I'm working off memory of Hieatt and Butler's redaction.

And certainly we know that spit-roasting was a common cooking technique, and

are there not recipes for sauces to go over roasted meats? As well as those

using leftover cooked meats, which might well be roasted?

 

Brangwayna Morgan

 

 

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:26:36 -0400

From: "LHG, JRG" <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - Roast Beef

 

>I've a transcript of Ein Alemannisches Buchlien von guter Speise which has a

>number of recipes for Braten, nominally roast beef, but with a possible

>interpretation of roasts in general.  I haven't translated any of the

>recipes yet, so I can't give you any details.

 

>IIRC, the book is mid-15th Century, about a century later than Ein Buch von

>Guter Speise.

 

>Bear

 

upon reading this I was immediately stuck with the similar words (ger)

"braten" and (english/ang-sax) brawn or braun. They would be pronounced

approximately the same way.

 

Broke Brawn is (in England) sliced roasts. Brawn is either meat in aspic or

roasted meat, depending upon your century of orientation.

 

Aoife

 

 

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:21:32 -0500

From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)

Subject: SC - Re: crisp crust meat

 

I don't eat in the food court, except for desserts, because of food

allergies, but this evening I read some of Dorothy Hartly's book on the

history of British food.  She says to dredge a cooked roast with flour,

then trickle a liquid--water, wine, something appropriate--over it and

let it continue to cook until it is 'clear'.  I think she means that the

flour should be sort of transparent.  Then you brown it well without

letting it burn, and it makes a good crust.  This is 'open air' roasting,

not in a closed pot or oven.  Her drawings showed me meat on a spit

getting heat from the side of the fire rather than just over the fire;

this is how you can have a dripping pan under the roast. At probably a

later date than ours, tin reflectors were set up:   fire   meat   tin

screen     and would reflect the heat back onto the meat.

 

She also made the point that the liquid should be relevant to the type of

meat:  lamb feeds on mint in the meadow, so mint water; venison got the

red wine; beef got broth but was served with milk and dairy sides and

sauces: Yorkshire pudding, etc.

 

Allison

 

 

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:07:35 EDT

From: PhlipinA at aol.com

Subject: SC - On roast beef and fried chicken- long

 

Was just going through my copy of Platina, "De Honesta Voluptate et

Valetudine", the Milham translation, 1998, and found the following

instructions.

 

The first is from the 6th book, Chapter 4, entitled "Assum", or "Roast":

 

"Make a roast from whatever meat you want this way: if it is old (1), when it

has boiled a while, take it out of the pot and lard it, and have it turned

over the fire until it is well cooked, but if it is tender, like veal and kid,

cook it without boiling, the same way as above. Wash in boiling water capons,

pheasants, kid, partridges and whatever wild meat requires roasting, well

plucked and dressed. After they are rinsed and garnished to stimulate appetite

with fragrant herbs, pepper, and finely chopped lard, have them cooked on a

hearth on a slow fire, but when you see that they are nearly cooked, sprinkle

salt with breadcrumbs all over them, after the fire has been increased more

than before and the spit turned with a faster turning hand. Then take the meat

off at once, let the steam go away, and serve to your guests."

 

(1) At this juncture, I'm reminded of Adamantius telling me that the Romans

felt beef was vulgar, and would not be eaten by the upper classes- they'd eat

veal in preference. In this case, the phrase " Si annicula erit" means, I

think, meat from a mature animal. Ras, although this does not specifically say

roast beef, it is a generic recipe for roasting any animal, and I feel that

beef is one of the animals included. I suspect many of the recipes we have are

intended to be generic. Your thoughts, Ras, Adamantius, Cariadoc, anyone?

 

<snip of fried chicken recipe>

 

Phlip

 

 

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:12:24 EST

From: Seton1355 at aol.com

Subject: SC - from the Plymouth Plantation web site

 

Since this is from 1615 I'm assuming it's not too late for us.  Perhaps

someone will be interested.

Phillipa

 

G. Markham on Roast Meats - 1615

 

59 Of roast meats. Observations in roast meats.

 

To proceed then to roast meats, it is to be understood that in the general

knowledge thereof are to be observed these few rules. First, the cleanly

keeping and scouring of the spits and cob-irons; next, the neat picking and

washing of meat before it is spitted,

 

60 Spitting of roast meats.

 

Then the spitting and broaching of meat, which must be done so strongly and

firmly that the meat may by no means either shrink from the spit, or else turn

about the spit; and yet ever to observe that the spit do not go through any

principle part of the meat, but such as is of least account and estimation:

and if it be birds or fowl which you spit, then to let the spit go through the

hollow of the body of the fowl, and so fasten it with picks or skewers under

the wings, about the thighs of the fowl, and at the feet or rump, according

to your manner of trussing and dressing them.

 

61 Temperature of fire.

 

Then to know the temperatures of the fires for every meat, and which must have

a slow fire, yet a good one, taking leisure in roasting, as chines of beef,

swans, turkeys, peacocks, bustards, and generally any great large fowl, or any

other joints of mutton, veal, pork, kid, lamb, or such like, whether it be

venison, red or fallow, which indeed would lie long at the fire, and soak well

in the roasting; and which would have a quick and sharp fire without

scorching, as pigs, pullets, pheasants, partridge, quail, and all sorts of

middle sized or lesser fowl, and all small birds or compound roast meats, as

olives of veal, haslets, a pound of butter roasted, or puddings simple of

themselves; and many other such like, which indeed would be suddenly and

quickly dispatched, because it is intended in cookery that one of thse

dishes must be ready whilst the other is in eating.

 

[Butter was probably not available to the Pilgrims at this time. Much of the

original supply was sold previous to the Mayflower's departure, and the

remaining stores presumably used earlier. They had no cattle, but they may

well have had milch goats for milk. KC]

 

62 The complexions of meat.

 

Then to know the complexions of meat, as which must be pale and white roasted

(yet thoroughly roasted), as mutton, veal, lamb, kid, capon, pullet,

partridge, quail, and all sorts of middle and small land or water fowl, and

all small birds; and which must be brown roasted, as beef, venison, pork,

swan, geese, pigs, crane, bustards, and any large fowl, or other thing whose

flesh is black.

 

63 The best bastings for meats.

 

Then to know the best bastings for meat, which is sweet butter, sweet oil,

barrelled butter, or fine rendered up seam, with cinnamon, cloves and mace.

There be some that will baste only with water, and salt, and with nothing

else; yet it is but opinion, and that must be the world's master always.

 

[As goose and duck have enough fat, they would have been basted in their own

gravy, with or without the spices.]

 

65 To know when meat is enough.

 

Lastly to know when meat is roasted enough; for as too much rareness is

unwholesome, so too much dryness is not nourishing. Therefore to know when it

is the perfect height, and is neither too moist nor too dry, you shall observe

these signs first in your large joints of meat; when the steam or smoke of the

meat ascendeth, either upright or else goeth from the fire, when it beginneth

a little to shrink from the spit, or when the gravy which drppeth from it is

clear without bloodiness, then is the meat enough . . .or if it be any kind of

fowl you roast, when the thighs are tender, or the hinder parts of the

pinions, at the setting on of the wings, are without blood, then be sure that

your meat is fully enough roasted: yet for a better and more certain

assuredness, you may thrust your knife into the thickest parts of the meat,

and draw it out again, and if it bring out white gravy without any bloodiness,

then assuredly it is enough, and may be drawn with all speed convenient. . .

 

76 Ordering of meats to be roasted.

 

. . .for in all joints of meat except a shoulder of mutton, you shall crush

and break the bones well; from pigs and rabbits you shall cut off the feet

before you spit them, . . .capons, pheasants, chickens, and turkeys you shall

roast with the pinions folded up, and the legs cut off by the knees, and

thrust into the bodies. . .

 

 

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:03:51 -0500

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - corned beef

 

Dry-cured, brined beef (rubbed with and packed in salt, possibly some

spices and some sugar, and stored in a barrel or something where the meat

juices will run out and create a pickling brine) is probably period,

>Adamantius

<snip>

 

        We have a dish here that we have served for years, and it

originally came from a Knight in Trimaris, (Sir Ragnar? we're talking

about 20 some-odd years ago now).  It is called Roman Roast.  It is

basically this:

        Take an inexpensive cut of meat, chuck roast works well, and have

it cut into 3-5 pound portions.  Using heavy duty aluminum foil, season

the  roast with pepper and A LOT of salt.  We usually dust the pepper on,

and use about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of salt per roast.  Seal the foil, and bake

until done through and falling apart, usually about 3 hours or so.  Take

them out of the oven, and let them sit for a few minutes. Open the foil,

and pour 3/4 - 1 cup of honey over the roast.  Close the foil back up and

let them sit for 15 minutes or so (longer is fine).  When ready to serve,

remove the roasts, shred, and pour the juices over the meat.  Leftovers

will not be an issue.

 

        This is really tasty, and one of the most popular meat dishes

around here.  I wonder if it has any sort of documentable history?  It

came down to us with the story that this would have been cooked by

legions on the move, using salted meat and stew pots. Anybody have any

idea?

        Christianna

 

 

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:46:49 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - corned beef

 

Christine A Seelye-King wrote:

>         We have a dish here that we have served for years, and it

> originally came from a Knight in Trimaris, (Sir Ragnar? we're talking

> about 20 some-odd years ago now).  It is called Roman Roast.

>

>         This is really tasty, and one of the most popular meat dishes

> around here.  I wonder if it has any sort of documetable history?  It

> came down to us with the story that this would have been cooked by

> legions on the move, using salted meat and stew pots. Anybody have any

> idea?

>         Christianna

 

I'm not aware of anything in Apicius or other Roman sources that comes

very close to this, but I'm always up for examining new stuff.

 

Based on my own experience, and Your Mileage May Vary, it sounds vaguely

as if it is equally inspired by Cantonese Salt-Baked Chicken,  some type

of Texas barbecue (being beef and the sauce too thick and syrupy for

Southern), and Apician ham baked in flour-and-oil pastry.

 

On the other hand, it sounds good, too.

 

Adamantius

¯stgardr, East

 

 

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:19:10 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: Salted Beef roast (was  Re: SC - corned beef)

 

Nick Sasso wrote:

> You will find good Apicius brought us this dish in its

>  original form.  There are conjectures as to whether

>  it should be sliced or pulled (as in s outhern BBQ), though not to

> the height of the Cusk*******les

> debate.

>

> It is entered in my Giacossa translation as 'roasted meat'.

 

I guess this is a matter of interpretation. I understood this roast, as

eaten in the SCA, is essentially covered with a salt crust. Apicius says:

 

"Assaturum simplicem: assam a furno salis plurimo conspersam cume mele

inferes."

 

I'd translate this more or less as Flower & Rosenbaum do, to read (more

or less): "Plain roast: roast in the oven with plenty of salt sprinkled

on, serve with honey."

 

I guess this is not an impossible interpretation...as I said, I guess it

all depends on how you look at it. I wouldn't have seen this in the same

way, or frankly even have recognized it as the same dish, but what the

hey... .

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:27 -0600

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: SC - My try at Roman Roast

 

Christianna posted a message and recipe on Roman Roast last Wednesday,

January 27.

 

>         We have a dish here that we have served for years, and it

> originally came from a Knight in Trimaris, (Sir Ragnar? we're talking

> about 20 some-odd years ago now).  It is called Roman Roast.  It is

> basically this:

>         Take an inexpensive cut of meat, chuck roast works well, and have

> it cut into 3-5 pound portions.  Using heavy duty aluminum foil, season

> the  roast with pepper and A LOT of salt.  We usually dust the pepper on,

> and use about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of salt per roast.  Seal the foil, and bake

> until done through and falling apart, usually about 3 hours or so.  Take

> them out of the oven, and let them sit for a few minutes.  Open the foil,

> and pour 3/4 - 1 cup of honey over the roast.  Close the foil back up and

> let them sit for 15 minutes or so (longer is fine). When ready to serve,

> remove the roasts, shred, and pour the juices over the meat.  Leftovers

> will not be an issue.

 

I decided to try this for dinner today. I used a little over 3 pounds of

chuck roast but mostly measured the other ingredients by eye. I cooked

it at 350 degrees for about three hours.

 

I used a double layer of medium wieght foil, as that was what I had and

placed it on a baking pan. Good thing I did as the juices/salt leaked

out. Next time I'm going to use a thicker foil. I also liberally pierced

the roast with a knife while I was salting it and worked the salt into

the meat. I may have pierce the foil, which is why some of the

juice leaked through the foil. I also liberally sprinkled worcheshire

sauce over the roast. No, I don't consider worcheshire sauce a good

replacement for garum and garum wasn't mentioned anyway. It wasn't for

a feast. I just thought it would taste good.

 

The resulting sauce is quite good, although very rich with all the salt

and honey. A little goes a long way.

 

My wife and I both loved it. I served it with garlic bread and mashed

potatoes.

 

>         This is really tasty, and one of the most popular meat dishes

> around here.  I wonder if it has any sort of documentable history?  It

> came down to us with the story that this would have been cooked by

> legions on the move, using salted meat and stew pots. Anybody have any

> idea?

 

I doubt it is in anyway period as cooked but it is delicous. I would

suspect that meat would be cut into thin strips before salting rather

than salting a whole roast, although maybe a roast could be put into

brine? I don't think a roman legion on the move would have baked it.

- --

Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

 

 

Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:46:40 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - My try at Roman Roast

 

> Christianna posted a message and recipe on Roman Roast last Wednesday,

>

> I decided to try this for dinner today. I used a little over 3 pounds of

> chuck roast but mostly measured the other ingredients by eye. I cooked

> it at 350 degrees for about three hours.

>

> I doubt it is in anyway period as cooked but it is delicous. I would

> suspect that meat would be cut into thin strips before salting rather

> than salting a whole roast, although maybe a roast could be put into

> brine? I don't think a roman legion on the move would have baked it.

> --

> Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad   Kingdom of Ansteorra

 

Roasted Meat (Apicius 268)

 

Assaturam:  Assam a furno simplicem salis plurimo conspersam cum melle

inferes.

 

Roasted meat:  The meat is roasted plain in the oven, sprinkled generously

with salt.  Serve with honey.

 

This is civilian fare.  The diet of the legions was primarily bread, cooked

grain, pulses, vegetables as available and watered wine or vinegar.  Meat

was rarely eaten and was probably purchased outside the regular ration or

looted from an enemy.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:49:18 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - idle thoughts are tools of the cook...

 

"Laura C. Minnick" wrote:

>         A question for those of you who are not off warring with each other...

>         I was thinking of making a roast in the very near future, something

> that could be served sliced cold, maybe with sauce. I had thought

> immediately of Cormarye from _Curye of Inglysch_, but that's a pork

> roast, and I'd prefer not to use pork this time. Does anyone have an

> idea for something like Cormarye, but beef? Or would the same recipe

> work with beef? I don't recall ever making a major substitution like

> that before. Any ideas?

 

Ideas for a specifically marinated roast, that is medieval, other than

cormarye, in my experience, no, or at least not offhand. I think there

are some late-period or just-post-period recipes for various soused

meats, cooked and then pickled in wine, vinegar, salt, etc. I'll see if

I can find some of them later.

 

If you want to go the strictly medieval route, I might suggest a

well-seasoned roast (i.e. assertively salted, etc.) with one of the

several pevorade sauces. If pepper is not your thing (although it has a

special affinity for beef) you might make a cameline sauce. According to

Taillevent, the default setting seems to be that most roasts are eaten

either with a verjuice dip or with cameline, but he doesn't include beef

among the references to roasts.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:42:42 EDT

From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - idle thoughts are tools of the cook...(Recipes)

 

On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:44:04 -0700 "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>

writes:

>I was thinking of making a roast in the very near future, something

>that could be served sliced cold, maybe with sauce. I had thought

>immediately of Cormarye from _Curye of Inglysch_, but that's a pork

>roast, and I'd prefer not to use pork this time. Does anyone have an

>idea for something like Cormarye, but beef? Or would the same recipe

>work with beef? I don't recall ever making a major substitution like

>that before. Any ideas?

>

>'Lainie

 

Try one of the following.

 

Korrin S. DaArdain

Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr

Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Roast of Meat, A (Western Islamic, 13th c.)

        Andalusian p. A-38.

        From Cariadoc's Miscellany. Copyright © by David Friedman, 1988,

1990, 1992

        Roast salted, well-marbled meat [cut up] like fingertips, and put

in a pot spices, onion, salt, oil and soaked garbanzos. Cook until done

and add the roast meat; cover the contents of the pot with cilantro and

sprinkle with pepper and cinnamon; and if you add whole pine nuts or

walnuts in place of garbanzos, it will be good.

        1 1/2 lb lamb or beef

        2 15 oz cans chickpeas

        3 small onions = 3/4 lb

        1 t salt

        spices:

        1/4 t cumin

        1/2 t coriander

        1/2 t cinnamon

        1/4 t black pepper

        3 T olive oil

        1/4 c green coriander, pressed down

        1/8 t more pepper

        1/4 t more cinnamon

        Note: an earlier recipe in the same book calls for spices and

then specifies which ones: "all the spices, pepper, cinnamon, dried

coriander and cumin."

        Roast meat and cut into about 1/4" by 1/2" pieces. Slice onions.

Put chickpeas, onion, spices, salt and oil in a pot and cook over

moderate heat, stirring, for 10 minutes, turning down the heat toward the

end as it gets dry; add meat and cook one minute, add green coriander and

cook another minute, and turn off heat. Sprinkle with pepper and cinnamon

and serve.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        A Roste - Beef Roast with Crisps

        Fabulous Feasts- Medieval Cookery and Ceremony by Madeleine

Pelner Cosman ISBN 0-8076-0832-7 Posted by Jeff Pruett

        4 TB Or more butter or oil for searing meat

        5 lb. Beef roast tied with butcher's cord

        1/2 c Flour

        1 tsp. Cinnamon

        1 tsp. Salt

        1 tsp. Dried sweet basil; crushed

        1/2 tsp. Dried rosemary; crushed

        1/4 tsp. Thyme

        1 c Dates; pits removed, cut in halves

        1 c Dried figs; stems removed, -cut in strips

        1/2 c Dried apple rings; cut in halves

        2 TB Brown sugar or honey

        1 1/2 c Beef stock

        BATTER

        1 c Flour

        1 ea. Egg

        2/3 c Milk

        1/4 tsp. Salt

        1/2 tsp. (scant) baking powder

        1/4 c Chopped fresh parsley; crushed

        Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. In Dutch oven or cast-iron pot

(either having tight covers) melt the butter. Dredge the roast with the

mixture of flour, cinnamon, and salt, and thoroughly sear in the heated

butter, browning all sides. Mix basil, rosemary, and thyme. Mix spices

with combined dates, figs, and apples. Arrange spiced fruits around the

meat. Sprinkle sugar or drizzle honey on fruits. Carefully pour on beef

stock around the edges of the pot so as to avoid 'flooding' any food

surfaces. Cover tightly. Bake at 350 degrees F for 3 hours, or until

tender. Remove from oven to cool for 30 minutes. Increase oven heat to

450 degrees F. Prepare a very thick batter by vigorously stirring all

batter ingredients except parsley. Add extra flour if necessary. Add

chopped parsley to the batter. Pour batter over the roast allowing the

excess to trickle down into the gravy. Return meat to hot oven (450

degrees F) for 5 to 10 minutes so that coating browns nicely. Cut the

roast in its dough jacket. Serve the 'crisps' which formed in the juices,

along with the gravy and fruit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Meat, Spit Roasted, with Egerdouce Sauce

        From The British Museum Cookbook by Michelle Berriedale-Johnson,

1987, British Museum Publications. Posted by Jennifer A. Newbury

(jn1t+ at andrew.cmu.edu)

        In medieval Europe, the spits were turned by kitchen boys and

were periodically dusted with spices and herbs. Since forks were still

almost unknown the slices of meat were eaten in the fingers but

accompanied by sauces. These were laid in small dishes (saucers) along

the tables, and diners would dip the little finger of the right had only

into the sauce and spread it on their meat. This finger was never licked

but carefully wiped on a napkin out of respect for fellow diners.

        In the modern kitchen-- any joint of meat can be used, but it

should be well flavored if the Egerdouce sauce is to be served with it.

Cook it on a spit, a barbecue, or on an open rack in the oven. Sprinkle

it lightly with ground mixed herbs plus a little of any spice that you

fancy.

        Egerdouce Sauce

        2 tablespoons olive oil

        75 g (3 oz) onions, roughly chopped

        25 g (1 oz) each of raisins and currants

        1/2 teaspoon each salt, ground ginger, mace and saffron

        1/4 teaspoon ground cloves

        120 ml (4 fl oz, 1/2 cup) dry white wine

        90 ml (3 fl oz, 1/3 cup) wine vinegar

        25 g (1 oz) sugar

        75 g (3 oz) wholemeal or whole wheat breadcrumbs

        Approx. 90 ml (3 fl oz, 1/3 c) water

        Gently cook the onions in the oil till they are soft. Add the

fruit and spices and cook for a few minutes. Melt the sugar in the wine

and vinegar and add this to the onion and fruits. Simmer all together,

covered for 15 minutes then process or liquidise. Return the mixture to

the pan and add the breadcrumbs and enough water to make a thick but not

claggy sauce. Adjust the seasoning to taste and serve with the roast

meat.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:14:34 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Roasting meats

 

Kerri Canepa wrote:

> Has anyone roasted meats using the boil first, roast second method? If so, I'd

> like to know how long boiled and then how long roasted and at what

> temperature.

 

That would depend both on the type and size of the meat, and also on

whether you mean the Taillevent (for example) parboil/plumping before

roasting method, or, say, the boiling till essentially done and tender

method I've used for things like whole ducks and certain cuts of pork,

which are then browned in a medium-hot oven. My example of whole ducks

would call for placing them in boiling water to scald and plump them,

then reducing the heat and simmering for about 45 minutes or so. They

can then be drained and cooled (whole birds won't dry out as much as

cut-up ones in this case: normally you want to avoid allowing boiled

meats to cool in the open air as they tend to become dry), then browned

in a moderately hot oven, maybe 450 degrees, for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes

or so.

 

One of the good things about this method is that if you simmer the meat

until it is tender, and a lot of the connective tissue is broken down,

and then chill it, it will become firm again, and because it doesn't all

heat up at once, you don't have to worry about it all falling apart,

which can happen if the cooked meat is placed in the oven while hot. Of

course you do want to watch for overcooking...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:06:09 -0500From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>Subject: Re: SC - Getting people to eat period food    Bistec Ajado is a traditional Cuban dish, with as many variants ascooks. My method is thus:(for 6 people)4 lb roast (type really doesn't matter, cheap cuts are fine), sliced 3/4"thickmarinade consisting of sour OJ (if you can find it, add lemon if you can't),lime juice (key limes are better than persian limes, but go with what yagot), finely chopped onions, olive oil, garlic to taste (heh, heh), a littlewhite vinegar, and some adobo spicesMarinade the slices for about 20 minutes, then pound them with a mallet toabout 1/4" thickness (told you cheap cuts would be OK, and it's a goodworkout for squires), then marinade them some more. Overnight in therefrigerator is good.Slice up whatever vegetables you want to use as an accompanimentHeat a little olive oil in a skillet, spice the slices with a bit moreadobo, and pan fry them over a high heat, just don't burn the oil.Deglaze the pan with the marinade, toss in whatever veggies you want toaccompany the dish with for a real quick stir fry, and send it out fast, asthis will cool off in a hurry. Garnish with a little chopped cilantro andfreshly ground pepper.   Sieggy

 

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:55:49 -0400

From: Darice Moore <magistra at tampabay.rr.com>

Subject: SC - LONG: Frankish Braised Beef Recipe w/Spikenard

 

Frankish Braised Beef

A Recipe from Anthimus' De obseruatione ciborum

 

redaction and notes by Clotild of Soissons

 

At our recent Arts and Sciences event, I entered the following recipe

and received a perfect score.  Just thought you might all like to

share.  Because of respect for bandwidth, I'm only posting the original

recipe and the redaction.  If anyone wants the 4-page documentation (in

MS Word), just lemme know.  ;)

 

I had some interesting challenges in re-creating this dish, not the

least of which was identifying and obtaining some of the spices and

herbs.  The search for spikenard was successful (thanks to Francesco

Sirene), but to obtain costmary, I had to purchase the plants (and then

keep them alive).  I also found that the recipe included some very

specific measurements for these exotic spices, which I originally

thought were a translator's assumption, but turned out to be correct.  I

verified the amounts through Latin translation of the terms and some

supporting research.

 

Though this dish is often referred to as a "stew," my redaction of the

recipe was as braised beef.  The dish balances notes of sweet, sour and

bitter mint with the savory tastes of the beef and vegetables-an unusual

combination to modern tongues, but not a distasteful one. More

interesting than the dish, perhaps, is the combination of cultures it

represents-a simple Frankish beef and vegetable stew, combined with

exotic spices enjoyed by the Romans (Apicius' De re coquinaria includes

recipes for all the exotic herbs in this dish).

 

 

The Recipe

 

I have provided here both the original Latin and Mark Grant's

translation:

 

3.  de carnibus uero uaccinis uaporatis factis et in sodinga coctis

utendum, etiam et in iuscello, ut prius exbromatas una unda mittas, et

sic in nitida aqua quantum ratio poscit coquantur, ut non addatur aqua,

et cum cocta fuerit caro, in uaso mittis acetum acerrimum quantum mediam

buculam, et mittis capita porrorum et pulegii modicum, apii radices uel

feniculi, et coquatur in una hora, et sic adddis mel quantum medietatem

de aceto uel quam quis dulcedinem habere uoluerit, et sic coquas lento

foco agitando ipsam ollam frequenter manibus, ut bene ius cum carne ipsa

temperetur.  et sic teris: piperis grana L costum et spicam nardi per

singula quantum medietatum solidi, et cariofili quantum pensat tremissis

I. ista omnia simul trita bene in mortario fictili addito uino modico,

et cum bene tribulatum fuerit, mittis in ollam et agistas bene, ita ut

antequam tollatur de foco, modicum sentiat et remittat in ius uirtutem

suam.  ubi tamin fuerit mel aut sapa uel caroenum, unum de ipsis, sicut

superius continetur, mittatur, et in buculari non coquatur, sed in olla

fictili meliorem saporem facit.

 

3.  Beef which has been steamed can be used both roasted in a dish and

also braised in a sauce, provided that, as soon as it begins to give off

a smell, you put the meat in some water.  Boil it in as much fresh water

as suits the size of the portion of meat; you should not have to add any

more water during the boiling.  When the meat is cooked, put in a

casserole about half a cup of sharp vinegar, some leeks and a little

pennyroyal, some celery and fennel, and let these simmer for one hour.

Then add half the quantity of honey to vinegar, or as much honey as you

wish for sweetness.  Cook over a low heat, shaking the pot frequently

with one's hands so that the sauce coats the meat sufficiently.  Then

grind the following:  50 pepper corns, 2 grammes each of costmary and

spikenard, and 1.5 grammes of cloves.  Carefully grind all these spices

together in an earthenware mortar with the addition of a little wine.

When well ground, add them to the casserole and stir well, so that

before they are taken from the heat, they may warm up and release their

flavour into the sauce.  Whenever you have a choice of honey or must

reduced either by a third or two-thirds, add one of these as detailed

above.  Do not use a bronze pan, because the sauce tastes better cooked

in an earthenware casserole.

 

The only specific amounts indicated were for the vinegar, the honey and

the spices.  For amounts that were specified, I felt it necessary to

double-check the amounts given by the translator-specifically the 2.5

grams each of costmary and spikenard.  With the help of a Latin

dictionary (and Latin-speaking friends), I determined that a more

accurate Latin translation was:  " of costmary and spikenard a single

measure equal to half the weight of a solidus."  The Roman emperor

Constantine I had reduced the solidus, to 1/72 of a pound, or 4.5

grams.  From this time on, the solidus retained a constant weight and

purity. .  The weight bears out the truth of the translation.  The

measurement for the cloves is based on another coin, the tremissus.

 

 

The Redaction

 

3-4 lbs. beef bottom round, cut into one-inch chunks

Water to cover beef

1/2 cup red wine vinegar (organic)

1/4 cup fresh catnip leaves, washed and torn (replacing pennyroyal)

2 leeks (white parts only), cut in 1/4-inch rounds

3 stalks celery, in 1/4-inch slices

1 bulb fennel, in 1/4-inch slices

1/4 cup honey (can use must reduced by 1/3 or 2/3, according to the

recipe)

50 peppercorns

2.5 grams spikenard root, dried

2.5 grams costmary leaf, fresh

1.5 grams cloves

1/4 cup red wine

 

Put the beef in a large pot and cover with water.  Boil until the beef

is cooked through. Drain the beef and place in a pre-soaked unglazed

earthenware casserole.  Pour the vinegar over the beef and add the

catnip leaves, leeks, celery and fennel on top.  Put the cover on the

casserole and put it in a cold oven.  Turn the oven on to 400 degrees.

 

In an hour, add the honey to the beef mixture.  Cover and shake to mix.

Reduce the temperature to 300 degrees and return the mixture to the oven

for another 30 minutes.

 

Using a mortar and pestle, grind the spikenard, peppercorns, costmary

and cloves together.  Add the red wine to the spices and then add the

spice mixture to the casserole.  Cover, shake and let rest for a few

minutes before serving, so that the flavors of the spices will be

released into the sauce.

 

Bibliography

 

Primary Source:

 

Grant, Mark (translator and editor).  Anthimus:  De obseruatione

ciborum; On the Observance of Foods.  Devon, Great Britain:  Prospect

Books, 1996.

 

Secondary Sources:

 

Boak, Arthur E. R. and Sinnigen, William G., A History of Rome to A.D.

565.  London:  The MacMillan Company, 1965.

 

Dendy, David.  E-mail on Spikenard, archived on Stefan's Florilegium:

www.florilegium.com

 

Garland, Sarah.  The Complete Book of Herbs & Spices. New York:  The

Viking Press, 1979.

 

 

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:13:02 EDT

From: BalthazarBlack at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - a very tiny hurray and some questions

 

ddfr at best.com writes:

> Lots of recipes for sauces to put on the roast beef; off hand I can't

>  think of a roast beef recipe.

 

There is a recipe in Redon's "The Medieval Kitchen", though I don't have it

handy (yep, it's in my trunk), for Roast Rib of Beef, I believe.  I'll have

to check it out, or someone else if they have the book handy.

 

Balthazar of Blackmoor

 

 

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 22:33:15 -0400

From: "Ron Rispoli" <rispoli at gte.net>

Subject: SC - Roast beef

 

This recipe confused me a bit the title says ribs of beef

(Alows de beef or de mutton) but the recipe calls for rump

(quyschons).  I'd be interested to hear what others can do with this.

 

Take fayre bef of the quyschons, or motoun of  the bottes,& kytte in the

maner of stekys:  Than take raw Percely, & Oynonys smal y-scredde,& yolkys

of eyroun sothe hard, & Marow or swette, & hew alle thes to-gedder smal;

than

caste ther-on poudere of gyngere & saffroun,& tolle them to-gederys with

thin hond, & lay them on the stekys al a-brode,& caste salt ther-to; then

rolle to-gederys, & putte hem on a round spete, & roste hem til they ben

y-now: than lay hem in a dysshe, & pore ther-on vynegre & a lityl verious, &

pouder pepir ther-on y-now, & gyngere, & canelle, & a fewe yolkys of hard

eyroun y-kremyd ther-on; & serue forth.

 

This is from "A Fifteenth Century Cookry Boke" by John L. Anderson

 

 

Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 00:16:01 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Roast beef

 

Ron Rispoli wrote:

> This recipe confused me a bit the title says ribs of beef

> (Alows de beef or de mutton) but the recipe calls for rump

> (quyschons).  I'd be interested to hear what others can do with this.

>

> Take fayre bef of the quyschons, or motoun of  the bottes,& kytte in the

> maner of stekys:  Than take raw Percely, & Oynonys smal y-scredde,& yolkys

> of eyroun sothe hard, & Marow or swette, & hew alle thes to-gedder smal;

> than

> caste ther-on poudere of gyngere & saffroun,& tolle them to-gederys with

> thin hond, & lay them on the stekys al a-brode,& caste salt ther-to; then

> rolle to-gederys, & putte hem on a round spete, & roste hem til they ben

> y-now: than lay hem in a dysshe, & pore ther-on vynegre & a lityl verious, &

> pouder pepir ther-on y-now, & gyngere, & canelle, & a fewe yolkys of hard

> eyroun y-kremyd ther-on; & serue forth.

>

> This is from "A Fifteenth Century Cookry Boke" by John L. Anderson

 

I've made this, although starting from the recipe in Taillevent, which

calls for a much more basic stuffing of marrow or suet, which this

includes as a moistener for a more typical stuffing. "Aloes" appears to

be a corruption of the Old French "aloyeaulx", or larks, as this little

spitted morsel of stuffed meat was intended to resemble a small bird,

either one stuffed or perhaps undrawn like an ortolan or bunting. Still

later recipes for the same dish (sometimes ending up as a filling for

pies) refer to the basic stuffed meat roll as "olives".

 

Taillevent has you roll marrow or suet into the rolls (in his case, veal

slices from the leg, rather like scallopine only cut along the grain, as

I recall) and then roast them on spits, brushing them with an egg-yolk-y

crepe batter as a glaze before serving.

 

When I did this dish I wasn't aware of the above recipe, and due to

supply problems on the day of the event I did end up with a stuffing very

similar to the above, simply because I had to fill them with something,

and didn't have enough marrow to do the job. So, I made a stuffing from

minced green herbs, hard-boiled egg yolks, a bit of grated cheese, and

the marrow, minced, because that was pretty much what Taillevent

recommended as a poultry stuffing. And these were, after all, birds.

 

As I recall this was a sort of illusion feast, so in addition to the

birds made of veal we also served flounders made out of chicken (grilled

spatchcocked or butterflied chickens in a sauce intended for flounder),

and sausages made out of fish.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 12:13:55 +0200

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Roast beef

 

>"Aloes" appears to be a corruption of the Old French "aloyeaulx", or

>larks, as this little spitted morsel of stuffed meat was intended to

>resemble a small

> bird, either one stuffed or perhaps undrawn like an ortolan or bunting.

> Still later recipes for the same dish (sometimes ending up as a filling

> for pies) refer to the basic stuffed meat roll as "olives".

> Adamantius

>

>     Yep, I've always heard allows/aloes/olives as rolled "birds", so where

>does this short ribs identity come from?  Anderson's glossary defines

>them thusly: "Alows; corruption of French 'aloyaux', which were short

>ribs; even the dish is a corruption of the original".

>Cindy's glossary doesn't define the term, but she uses it as short ribs

>in the recipe I mentioned, Alows de Beef or de Mutton. (I'm not picking

>on you Cindy!  These are the only two I've got to hand, and I was just

>noticing the reddish stain on the bottom of both volumes, got to stop

>cooking with it right in the kitchen!)

>

>     Christianna

 

I followed Thomas Austin's notes on this one.

 

He says in the index/glossary (p. 120):

 

' Aloes de Roo, 61; Allowes de Mutton, 83; Alows de Beef or de Motoun, 40;

Alowys, 3. See Warner, p. 74, "Alaunder of moton" and "of beef"; Napier, p.

29, "Alander de moton," p. 30, "Alander de beeff." Cotgr., "Aloyau de

boeuf. A short rib of beefe, or the fleshie end of the rib, diuided from

the rest, and rosted." Compare a mutton chop. '

 

To save you the bother of looking, Aloes de Roo, p. 61, is just a listing

in a menu; Alowys, p. 3, is a listing in the table of contents.

 

To further confuse the issue, the Napier recipes (A Noble Boke Off Cookry

ffor a Prynce Houssolde..., c. 1467 according to her) read as follows:

 

"Alander de moton

To mak alander de moton tak y legge of moton and sethe it till it be tender

by it selue and when it is sodene bray the fleshe in a mortair and alay it

with the sam brothe and put ther to pouder of clowes pouder of canelle

colour it with saffron boile it and serue it.

 

"Alander de beeff

To mak alander de bef, take the clodde of beef and make lesks of a span

longe then tak parsley and hewe it smalle with shepes tallowe and mak

pouder of pepper and canelle meled to gedure and cast ther to salt and

couche one lesche with rawe yolks of egg and rolle up the leske and prik

them close and put them on a broche and rost them and serue them in a good

ceripe."

 

Alander de moton is boiled mutton, cut from the bone & pounded in a mortar,

then mixed with spices and served.

 

Alander de beeff is similar to the Harleian MSS versions below, but by no

means identical.  Napier defines leske (an alternate spelling of lesche) as

slice.  Clodde is undefined.

 

 

Harleian MS. 4016

78 Allowes de Mutton.  Take faire Mutton of the Buttes, and kutte hit in

[th]e maner of stekes; And [th]en take faire rawe parcelly, and oynons

shred smale, yolkes of eron sodden hard, and mary or suet; hewe all [th]es

smale togidre, and then caste thereto pouder of ginger, and saffron, and

stere hem togidre with thi honde, and ley hem vppe-on [th]e stekes al

abrode; and cast there-to salt, and rolle hem togidre, and put hem on a

spitte, and roste hem till [th]ei be ynogh.

 

78 Short ribs of Mutton.  Take fair Mutton off the Butts, and cut it in the

manner of steaks; And then take fair raw parsley, and onions shredded

small, yolks of eggs seethed hard, and marrow or suet; hew all these small

together, and then cast thereto powder of ginger, and saffron, and stir

them together with thy hand, and lay them upon the steaks all about; and

cast thereto salt, and roll them together, and put them on a spit, and

roast them till they are enough.

 

Harleian MS. 279 - Leche Vyaundez

xxx.  Alows de Beef or de Motoun.  Take fayre Bef of [th]e quyschons, &

motoun of [th]e bottes, & kytte in [th]e maner of Stekys; [th]an take raw

Percely, & Oynonys smal y-scredde, & [3]olkys of Eyroun so[th]e hard, &

Marow or swette, & hew alle [th]es to-geder smal; [th]an caste [th]er-on

poudere of Gyngere & Saffroun, & tolle hem to-gederys with [th]in hond, &

lay hem on [th]e Stekys al a-brode, & caste Salt [th]er-to; [th]en rolle

to-gederys, & putte hem on a round spete, & roste hem til [th]ey ben y-now;

[th]an lay hem in a dysshe, & pore [th]er-on Vynegre & a lityl verious, &

pouder Pepir [th]er-on y-now, & Gyngere, & Canelle, & a fewe 3olkys of hard

Eyroun y-kremyd [th]er-on; & serue forth.

 

30.  Short ribs of Beef or of Mutton.  Take fair Beef off the cushions, &

mutton off the butts, & cut in the manner of Steaks; then take raw Parsley,

& Onions small shredded, & yolks of Eggs seethed hard, & Marrow or suet, &

hew all these together small; then cast thereon powder of Ginger & Saffron,

& rub them together with thine hand, & lay them on the Steaks all about, &

cast Salt thereto; then roll together, & put them on a round spit, & roast

them till they are enough; then lay them in a dish, & pour thereon Vinegar

& a little verjuice, & powdered Pepper thereon enough, & Ginger, &

Cinnamon, & a few yolks of hard Eggs crumbled thereon; & serve forth.

 

Anderson say: "Alows; corruption of French aloyaux, which were short ribs;

even the dish is a corruption of the original."

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

cindy at thousandeggs.com

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:57:19 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Roast beef

 

Cindy writes:

> I followed Thomas Austin's notes on this one.

>

> He says in the index/glossary (p. 120):

>

> ' Aloes de Roo, 61; Allowes de Mutton, 83; Alows de Beef or de

> Motoun, 40; Alowys, 3. See Warner, p. 74, "Alaunder of moton" and "of

beef";  Napier, p. 29, "Alander de moton," p. 30, "Alander de beeff."

Cotgr., "Aloyau de boeuf. A short rib of beefe, or the fleshie end of the

rib, diuided

> from the rest, and rosted." Compare a mutton chop. '

 

      So, I'm going back to my theory that we're talking about the loin here,

- - 'the fleshie end of the rib, divided from the rest and roasted'.  As it

is a dryer cut (tender, but not as marbled as other hunks of meat), it

would follow that a suet-based rub would be useful for keeping it moist

during the roasting process.  One can easily cut it into various shapes

that could be roasted as a whole piece or rolled and spitted like a

rouladen.  

 

> "Alander de beeff

> To mak alander de bef, take the clodde of beef

 

>I recall beef clod being used in modern butcher's terminology, but

beyond the fact that it is a moist-heat cut suitable for stewing (I seem

to recall turning 35 pounds of it into gulyas once...) I can't remember

exactly where, on the animal, it lives. I'll see if I can find out.

 

      In a flyer I have from the National Live Stock and Meat Board, they have

a cut from the front called the "shoulder clod roast" that looks like it

comes from the chuck.  Another piece of literature I have from the Delft

Blue Fancy Veal folks describes clod thusly: " Boneless clod roast.

Remove the entire clod from the shoulder by inserting the knife along the

arm bone and cutting straight back over the knuckle along the blade bone,

and through o the chuck side of the shoulder.  Remove the clod from the

surface of the blade and separate from the rest of the shoulder.  Remove

the heavy piece of nerve from the clod.  Jet net or tie to merchandise as

a boneless clod roast."

 

      So, it looks like we have a recipe that can be used with various cuts of

meat, including shoulder, ribs, loin, and butt, or perhaps a recipe that

has been used over the centuries by various authors for varying cuts of

meat.  

      Christianna

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 15:21:37 EDT

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: Re: Subject: SC - Roast beef kinda long

 

> Ron Rispoli" <rispoli at gte.net>

>  Subject: SC - Roast beef

>  

>  This recipe confused me a bit the title says ribs of beef

>  (Alows de beef or de mutton) but the recipe calls for rump

>  (quyschons).  I'd be interested to hear what others can do with this.

>  

>  Take fayre bef of the quyschons, or motoun of  the bottes,& kytte in the

>  maner of stekys:  Than take raw Percely, & Oynonys smal y-scredde,& yolkys

>  of eyroun sothe hard, & Marow or swette, & hew alle thes to-gedder smal; than

>  caste ther-on poudere of gyngere & saffroun,& tolle them to-gederys with

>  thin hond, & lay them on the stekys al a-brode,& caste salt ther-to; then

>  rolle to-gederys, & putte hem on a round spete, & roste hem til they ben

>  y-now: than lay hem in a dysshe, & pore ther-on vynegre & a lityl verious, &

>  pouder pepir ther-on y-now, & gyngere, & canelle, & a fewe yolkys of hard

>  eyroun y-kremyd ther-on; & serue forth.

>  

>  This is from "A Fifteenth Century Cookry Boke" by John L. Anderson

 

Alunder of Beef

The “main work” herein after referred to is  A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye,

16 Century, edited by Catherine Frances Frere, Cambridge; W. Heffer & Sons

Ltd, 1913

 

This stuffed beef roll can be found under the guise of “Alowes of

Beef/Mutton” (H.M.279 1420), “Alaunder of Beef” (New Boke of Cokery, 1470)  

and in our main work as “To make a pye of Alowes”.

The recipes found involve cutting  steaks of beef or mutton and making a  

stuffing that almost invariably contains parsley and thyme, suet or bone

marrow and various spices . The recipe I chose to redact is the one from  our

main work and it is presented here for your viewing.

 

To Make A Pye of Alowes

Take a legge of mutton and cutte it in thyn slyces, and for stuffing of the

same take perselye, tyme, and sauerye and chop them smal, then temper among

them three or iiij yolckes of harde egges chopt smal and small reysons,  

dates cutte with mace, and a lyttle salte, then laye all these in the stekes

and then role them togeather.

This done make your pye, and laye all these therein, then ceason theym wyth a

lyttle suger and cynamon, sauron and salt, then cast upon them the yolckes of

three or foure harde egges and cut dates, wyth small raysynges, so close your

pye, and bake hym.  Then for a syrope for it, take roosted breade, and a

little claret wyne and strayne them thyn togeather, and put thereto a lyttle

suger, synamon and gynger and putte it into your pye and then serve it forthe.

 

Redacted recipe:

2lb Blade roast sliced into rolls       .25 lb butter

2 c tyme                    .5 c raisins

2c parsley washed, chopped small        .5 tsp mace

1c shredded onion           .25 tsp cinnamon

2 raw eggs              .25 tsp saffron

                    .25 tsp salt

Sauce:

1 cup red wine

2 tsp sugar

1 tsp cinnamon

 

Combine the stuffing ingredients and fill the roast. Tie the roast into a

roll. Place the roll into an oven-proof dish . Mix the sauce and pour over

the roast. Roast at 325 degrees for 1 hr or until meat thermometer reaches

140 degrees. Baste occasionally. Slice and serve.This recipe has been adapted

for a feast by using larger roasts, however, the original recipe calls for a

smaller steak, stuffed and baked within a pastry pie crust.

 

Hauviette

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:22:12 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - period dishes for Ari

 

ArianneShadowWalker at worldnet.att.net writes:

<< Pot roast, any potato dishes, any fish or fowl, finger foods, and

most especially...desserts!  :) >>

 

For a wonderful take on pot roast, totally unexpected but very good, try this:

 

A Drye Stewe for Beef

 

about 3 lb chuck roast or short ribs

2 onions, minced

1/2 tsp each whole cloves, whole mace blades, and whole peppercorns; or

sprinkle with the ground versions

1/2 cup red wine

 

Put the meat on a roasting rack in your pan, unless the bottom of the pan is

ridged.  Put the onions and spices on top of the meat, pour the red wine

over, and put a tight-fittin glid on the pot.  Cook as you would pot roast.  

You may need to add a bit more water or liquid.

 

This is from a manuscript referred to as "Arundel", which I believe in 14th

or 15th century English.

 

Brangwayna Morgan

 

 

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pit roast Pig

Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:59:54 -0400

From: Kirrily Robert <skud at infotrope.net>

 

Nicolette wrote:

> We are being given the opportunity to pit roast a whole pig in a month's

> time. We have the pit (almost dug), we have the pig ready for slaughtering

> (by the professional butcher). Now all we need is a period method of cooking

> it and some sauces and stuff to go with it. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Not sure if it will be useful to you at all, but there is a bunch of

stuff in "The English Housewife" from the early 17th century that gives

some "theory" related to roasting meats in general:

 

http://infotrope.net/sca/texts/english-housewife/roastmeats.html

 

How long have you been on this list, btw?  I don't think I've noticed

you post before.  It's good to see you!

 

Katherine

(previously Kenrick)

--

Lady Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)

Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere

 

 

Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 12:18:15 -0800

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any good Lamb recipes?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I want to learn to do pit roasting.  This cooking method appears to have

been known in ancient Ireland as well as Polynesia.

 

"..... And it was their custom to send their attendants about

noon with whatever they had killed in the mornings hunt to an

appointed hill, having wood and moorland in the neighbourhood and

to kindle raging fires thereon and to put into them a large number

of emery stones; and dig two pits in the yellow clay of the moorland,

and to put some of the meat on spits to roast before the fire; and

to bind another portion of it with sugars in dry bundles and set it

to boil in the larger of the two pits and to keep plying them with

the stones that were in the fire.   Making them seethe often until

they were cooked.  And these fires were so large

that their sites are today in Ireland burnt to blackness,

and these are now called fulacht fian by the peasantry"

Geoffrey Keating "The History of Ireland, 17th Century"

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:11:05 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Roast instructions was cold-cereal-and-juice

      breakfast

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:

> And I seem to recall Gervase Markham (admittedly, arguably post-

> period) giving instructions for roasting meat.

>

> Adamantius

 

The one manuscript in Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery

also includes roast recipes. See pages 75, 76, etc.

Dating for that mss. is reckoned at 1580-1625.

 

Of course we could all just return to C. B. Hieatt's 1980 article

"The Roast, Or Boiled Beef of Old England" and read what she has to  

say on the subject. She found that while the French had roasted beef

recipes, the English generally did not record as many in the 13th-15th

centuries.

 

There are any number of roasted bird and pork recipes, however.

 

Johnnae

 

 

<the end>



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