peacocks-msg – 7/12/06
Serving peacocks as sotelties with all their plumage safely. Period use of peacock sotelties.
NOTE: See also the files: exotic-meats-msg, food-sources-msg, sotelties-msg, illusion-fds-msg, Warners-art, duck-goose-msg, birds-recipes-msg.
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From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:27:11 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - any suggestions ??
At 02:27 AM 4/16/97 -0400, Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
><< For the Investiture feast of Alaric and Nerissa as P&P of Lochac last
> September we served swan to the high table. It's incredibly period and
> it's interesting to try and get it to look right. The meat tastes
> interesting as well, sort of a mix of turkey and duck.
> Just my two cents worth>>
>
>Where did you come up with the swan?
Good question. This reminds me of the time (which at least one listmember
will remember, I'm sure) when the group I was in had an autocrat who really
wished to impress visiting royalty. Having researched period sotelties, he
became enamored of the idea of serving a peacock, which was cooked and
served in its own skin. Splendid, yes. Practical...maybe not.
The tale of how he obtained the peacock was rather amusing. He called
around and located a farm that bred peacocks within two hours' drive. They
explained that they made lovely pets, and what did he wish to do with them.
When he explained he wanted to kill it and cook it and eat it, they hung up
on him. He found another supplier.
A local Laurel was kind enough to assist in the skinning and tanning of the
hide, so that went fine at least. But when the time came to cook the thing,
two important facts were overlooked:
1. A peacock is a game bird, and cooks differently than a chicken.
2. It was a peaCOCK, not a peaHEN, and took longer to cook because of this.
When it was served to High Table, an attending knight politely suggested
that the king might wish to avoid the "salmonella salad." It was taken back
to the kitchen and given another hour to cook. I can't say how the meat
tasted, but I seem to recall that those eating it weren't impressed.
- -Duncan (...and don't even get me started on the eel stew...)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady tabrady at mindspring.com SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:02:26 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - swans, eel and peacocks, oh
MS MARTHA L WALLENHORST wrote:
> Remember when
> doing a peacock that it needs to roast slowly for many, many hours in
> rose water and tightly covered. It is quite wonderful. If I
> remember correctly The last time I bought one it was $25 for the bird
> and $5 for cold shipping UPS.
>
> Annejke
This would stand to reason, actually. Recipes for roasting peacocks (and
to a lesser extent, swans) mention that they need to be larded, which is
actually introducing added fat in strips into the meat itself, not just
wrapping the meat in fat or basting it. This would seem an argument that
the meat would otherwise be tough and dry. Taillevent mentions that
peacocks will keep for a month, cooked, in the larder, another
indication of dryness.
This is not to say, though, that they couldn't be quite tasty, in spite
of what some people have said.
Adamantius
From: Thyra Fairfax <thyra at tdn.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:14:16
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - peacocks and eels
> It is my understanding that game birds (pheasant, for example) take much
> longer to cook than your average off-the-shelf chicken. Also, unless spiced
> some way (like roasted in rose water, as someone else suggested), you will
> get a very "gamey" flavor from the meat.
With most *wild* meat/poultry it depends on both the how and when the
hunter gutted it, as well as what it had been eating. The age of the animal
and the time of year it was killed figure in also.
All game is very lean, cooking it slowly really makes a difference. If its
a bird, insert some fat under the skin before cooking. It will help it not
become dry. Sometimes soaking it in milk helps, if it is particularly
"gamey". As far as spicing it, I would spice "as usual", it really won't
make much of a difference as to how "gamey" it tastes. Over cooking it can,
but any meat will taste a little gamey (even beef) if it's cooked til dry.
(Another couple of pennies thrown in the pot from someone who will help
skin, gut, cut, wrap and cook it - but will not kill it and prefers not to
eat it :-)
Thyra
From: Annejke at prodigy.com (MS MARTHA L WALLENHORST)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:22:31, -0500
Subject: SC - Various
>Annejke lists, among her subtleties:
>1980 Peacock in full Pride (real bird)
>Master Chiquart (1420) advises his readers to cheat by cooking a goose and
>dressing it in a peacock's skin; he says peacock doesn't taste as good. Is
>that consistent with your experience?
I have done two peacocks and several peahens over the years. Only
one have I had come out gamey. I slow roast them all day in Rose
water and have served them with fresh orange chutney and had no
trouble really. Cooked this way I was taught that the grease is
negliable and it roasts the meat off of the bone so it is tender. I
have had friends try following Master Chirharts version with mixed
results. My version was first written up by Ann Wilson in 1977/78 in
a paper on historic recreations of feasts. This was her version and
I have had fairly good success.
Annejke
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:01:20 -0500From: morganna <themorrigan at softhome.net>Subject: Re: SC - PeacockLrdRas wrote:> Not to burst your bubble but peacock is usually very tough and not at> all particullarly tasty......>> RasHold the phone! :-)We have done two peacocks. It can be done to be tender and very tasty.The best of the two was soaking it overnight in milk (it was skinned). And then
they slow roasted it just like a turkey with very little for spices (I think a
bit of salt & pepper). The first one we did on a rotisserie and it needed to be
cut apart and finished on the grill, even through this abuse it was not tough,
just a bit on the dry side. What the bird was fed, and how old it is has a lot to do with the end result.Morganna
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:18:34 +0100
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SC - Peacock
> Guy asked where to get them.
>
> We were going to do the peacock cooked and put back in its skin for
> conference next easter, but people said I would die if I ate the cooked
> meat that had been inside the raw skin (hence the cockentrice - a
> replacement option) and we felt (this is run by a committee) there was not
>
> much point killing a peacock to look at.
Why? You might get salmonella poisoning (are peacocks prone to
salmonella?) but that won't necessarily kill you (and there is a way around
it, see below). I've done several. The one's destined to be eaten were
about 2 years old, very tender, mild gamey flavour (a little stronger than
turkey) and lots of breast meat. These we baked in a pastry case and put
the skin on top for presentation, to prevent salmonella contamination. They
were very successful.
I also did one purely for presentation (TV programme) which was
about 6 years old and looked very tough and gamey (much darker, stringy
looking meat). Nobody ate that one, but it may be ones of that age which
gave peacock its bad reputation.
I suspect their edibility, like any animal, depends on age and care.
> We had organised somebody who keeps peacocks to treat a fw extra nice -
> good food, easy life, etc. Then you get them to come have a chat, and
> have a nasty accident with a large pair of shears or a bone which twist
> the wrong way in their neck...
The 2 year olds were easy - I gather the 6 year old one had half a
dozen adults running around after it before it succumbed! Even the
stupidest birds gain a little cunning with age.
Caroline
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:42:38 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Peacock
charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au writes:
<< We were going to do the peacock cooked and put back in its skin for
conference next easter, but people said I would die if I ate the cooked
meat that had been inside the raw skin >>
<sigh> The doomsdayers strike again! First, salmonella is not a natural
occuring bug in peacocks. Chickens, yes. Peacocks no. Secondly the simple act
of wrapping the cooked bird in parchement paper or , for that matter, foil
would have eliminated any imagined nasties present on the interior of the skin
fromcoming into contact with the cooked flesh. Third the skin could have been
washed inside with a bleach solution in the same way commercial chickens are
washed during their processing.
Ras
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:45:48 -0400
From: "marilyn traber" <mtraber at email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Peacock
As to the sanitation problems of the raw skin over the cooked carcass, line
the raw skin with a goodly layer of heavy duty plastic wrap that has been
sealed with a line of rubber cement to the outside of the skin[if you are
really careful at skinning out a bird, the resulting opening can be very
small, allowing you to snip it into a cover and remove the feathers from the
perimeter in such a way that they are relatively unnoticeable.]
You can put the skin back over the bird with out exposure to raw skin or
juices.[Also, heavily salt the skin and place raw side down onto a towel to
draw off any excess fluuids.]
margali
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:15:29 -0400
From: "Gedney, Jeff" <Gedney.J at phd.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Peacock
Here's an Idea:
If you want to keep the skin after the feast, in order to do this
presentation regularly, or as a local "tradition", bet two birds, and
take the one with the best plumage to a taxidermist. tell him you want
the unmounted skin, and to stuff only the head and neck as normal.
Do not expect to be able to keep the meat from the taxidermist prepared
bird. Most taxidermists will not be able to save the meat from such a
bird. have them dump the carcass for safety's sake, as they can be a
long time in preparation before they can be refrigerated. The prepared
skin would be free of Salmonella (but probably have a host of other
beasties as artifacts of the tanning process.
Then roast the peacock as normal. wrap the carcass with foil or plastic
wrap, and draw the skin over the roasted bird and serve him forth.
Done this way, it is safe, simple, and enables the re-use of the
feathers as a neat traditional presentation.
brandu
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:42:29 -0400
From: "Gedney, Jeff" <gedje01 at mail.cai.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Modern sanitary concerns... bah ;)
> I have a question for ya'll. I am working on a bid for the feast for
> next summer's Landsknecht Musterung. I wanted to do some showy dish.
> I've run across mention of peacocks redressed in their skins a couple of
> times, and I think I saw mention of the same for pheasants and swans
> elsewhere. I would love to try something like this, but it brings up
> the problem of, well, not poisoning everyone in the hall. (Well, there
> are a few... oh, never mind ;) Has anyone tried this? Does anyone know
> how to treat the skins to get rid of the creepy-crawlies both on the
> inside and the outside?
>
> Magdalena vander Brugghe
> --
> Tara
I remember that conversation...
Several people had various ideas, such as using a barrier, like foil or
saranwrap, to keep the buggies out...
Chief objection to this was that the barriers are not very hermetic, and
juices can flow both ways through the layers, unless you are VERY CAREFUL in
the wrapping.
On lady I know sewed the plucked plumage onto a piece of quilting (keeps the
bird warm, as well!!!) and pasted the neck feathers onto a stuffed neck
shaped protrusion attached to the quilting...
I thought that it might be a good idea to get two peacocks, and cook one,
and hand the other to a taxidermist to be tanned with the feathers in place,
(you probably cant keep the meat from small game that you give to a
taxidermist, Unless you strip the carcass yourself first, and hand it over
quickly), and the head and neck stuffed with padding and an armature.
Then you put a little saran wrap over the bird and lay the skin back on the
bird.
This allows the skin to be kept indefinitely for "repeat performances".
Brandu
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:36:34 -0700
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - Peacocks (was Modern sanitary concerns...
What I did for my Above/Below the Salt feast was to cheat heinously...
I had a canton member sculpt me a peacock head from Femo (artists' clay),
then dressed the bird liberally in the featheriest, blue-greeniest herbs I
could find (mostly dill and fennel).
We then bleached the quills of a bunch of peacock feathers and threaded them
into the skin at the tail. Then arranged a "tail" of long peacock feathers
and sandwiched the bottom inches between two trays, serving the bird on the
top tray, of course. The space between the tail of the bird and the "tail"
of feathers was liberally stuffed with parsley.
- kat
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:28:19 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Peacocks (was Modern sanitary concerns...
At 5:36 PM -0700 10/23/98, kat wrote:
>What I did for my Above/Below the Salt feast was to cheat heinously...
>
>I had a canton member sculpt me a peacock head from Femo (artists' clay),
>then dressed the bird liberally in the featheriest, blue-greeniest herbs I
>could find (mostly dill and fennel).
>
>We then bleached the quills of a bunch of peacock feathers and threaded
>them into the skin at the tail. Then arranged a "tail" of long peacock
>feathers and sandwiched the bottom inches between two trays, serving the
>bird on the top tray, of course. The space between the tail of the bird
>and the "tail" of feathers was liberally stuffed with parsley...
Chiquart (author of Du Fait de Cuisine, 1420) cheated too. He put the
peacock tail feathers on a roasted goose; he doesn't say how he treated the
skin.
"And for this, I Chiquart have said before, I would like to teach to the
said master who is to make it the art of the said peacock, and this to do
courtesy and honor to his lord and master, that is to take a large fat
goose, and spit it well and put it to roast well and cleanly and gaily
[quickly?], and to recloth it in the plumage of the peacock and put it in
the place where the peacock should be set, next to the fountain of love
[this is part of an elaborate subtlety], with the wings extended; and make
the tail spread, and to hold the neck raised high, as if it were alive, put
a stick of wood inside the said neck which will make it hold straight. And
for this the said cook must not flay the said peacock, but take the pinions
to put on the goose and take the skin of the rump of the peacock where the
feathers are held all together; and when it goes onto the goose, to make
good skewers to make the said goose spread its tail as properly as the
peacock if it were alive."
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
From: renfrow at skylands.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: recipe needed.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:02:56 -0500
tollhase at aol.com (Tollhase) wrote:
> I have just found a source for peacock and ostrich meat. Does anyone have any
> medieval recipes for these. I probably can have them butchered any way I
> like.
>
> Lord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase
Hello! There's this one:
Harleian MS. 4016
55 Pecok rosted. Take a Pecok, breke his necke, and kutte his throte, And
fle him, [th]e skyn and the ffethurs togidre, and the hede still to the
skyn of the nekke, And kepe the skyn and the ffethurs hole togiders; drawe
him as an hen, And kepe [th]e bone to [th]e necke hole, and roste him, And
set the bone of the necke aboue the broche, as he was wonte to sitte
a-lyve; And abowe the legges to [th]e body, as he was wonte to sitte
a-lyve; And whan he is rosted ynowe, take him of, And lete him kele; And
[th]en wynde the skyn with the fethurs and the taile abought the body, And
serue him forthe as he were a-live; or elle[3] pull him dry, And roste
him, and serue him as [th]ou doest a henne.
55 Peacock roasted. Take a Peacock, break his neck, and cut his throat,
And flay him, the skin and the feathers together, and the head still to
the skin of the neck, And keep the skin and the feathers whole together;
draw him as a hen, And keep the bone to the neck whole, and roast him, And
set the bone of the neck above the broach [spit], as he was wont to sit
alive; And above the legs to the body, as he was wont to sit alive; And
when he is roasted enough, take him off, And let him cool; And then wind
the skin with the feathers and the tail about the body, And serve him
forth as he were alive; or else pluck him clean, And roast him, and serve
him as thou do a hen.
(Excerpt from Take 1000 Eggs or More, copyright 1990, 1997, Cindy Renfrow)
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes"
http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:38:51 +1030
From: "David & Sue Carter" <drcarter at bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: SC - A Parable, now peacock
> The other Lord Steffan said:
> > The peacock (actually 7 to 9 lb. turkey breasts, the local peacock farm
> > didn't have any available at the moment. Which is too bad, because,
> > peacock is very good.)
>
> Have you actually had peacock? There are period referances to it being a
> tough bird and to substitute another bird covering that bird in the
> peacock's skin and feathers.
>
> Steffan, I'd love to hear more comments about your experiences with
> cooking peacocks.
I'd like to compare notes with Steffan, too.
We also cooked peacock some years ago, for a cooking competition at
Midwinter of AS 23. We acquired ours from an old Italian couple who raised
them in a huge aviary and ate them all the time. On their advice, we bought
a young male, that is before his first flush of coloured tail, and kept him
for 3-4 months in with the chickens. We were advise