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duck-goose-msg - 9/23/18


Period and modern duck and goose recipes.


NOTE: See also the files: chicken-msg, turkeys-msg, eggs-msg, birds-recipes-msg,

peacocks-msg, fowls-a-birds-msg, Gos-Farced-art, stufed-pltry-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.


Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 16:12:15 PST

From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>

Subject: [none]


Duck is an easy bird to cook. I don't have my cookbooks to hand, but I can

give you 2 possibilities to use, the first of which is very simple, the

second of which is a bit more complex. You must keep in mind that ducks are

very fatty critters, and much of what you're doing with a duck is removing

the fat. Need I say that first you remove all visible fat from the cavity?


Method the first:

Thaw and de-fat the duck. Prick gently all over, piercing the skin but Not

the meat, and salt heavily inside and out. If you wish to, make a high acid

stuffing of fresh fruits loosely packed (citrus are best, but apples or

plums or whatever mixed with the citrus work well also), and plan on

cooking another 10-15 minutes. Place on a rack over a drip catching pan and

roast until the skin is crispy and the flesh of the breast has the texture

you prefer on roast chicken, about 1 1/2 to 2 hours at 250 to 300 degrees

F. DO NOT BASTE WITH PAN DRIPPINGS!!! Ducks are essentially self-basting.


Instead, save the rendered fat for something you want to use duck fat for.

Discard the stuffing, split the duck, and serve with a fruit sauce.

Fruit sauce #1


Take your favorite fruit jelly, mix with 1/2 as much of a good wine to your

taste, and gently heat until liquid, Preserves also work well, but are



Fruit sauce #2


Take your favorite fruit juice and add about 1/4 as much wine and heat,

thickening with cornstarch until slightly more liquid than you desire.


Method the second:


Thaw and defat your duck. Remove the skin and slice into 1/2-3/4 inch

strips. Dismantle the duck as you would a chicken, and separate the thighs

and legs from the breasts. Bone the breasts, and save the breastbones,

neckbones, and backs for stock. Mix up your liquid and seasoning as you

would for oven-fried chicken and dredge the legs and thighs: place on a pan

and place in the oven at 350 farenheit. Add the breasts after 15 minutes,

and bake until done, about 3/4 hour, depending on how well-done you like

your poultry. While this is going on, put the skin and fat in a frying pan

and fry until you have cracklings, drain on a paper towel. Present all on

the same platter, sectioned by body part, and heave a sigh of relief.


Note: I am assuming you're using commercial duck, rather than wild. Wild

duck is wonderful but, if it has been fed on fish, has other techniques

necessary to remove the fish taste from the meat. Also, wild duck is leaner

than domestic duck. As an average, you should figure on 1/2 duck per person.





Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 13:35:00 -0800

From: DUNHAM Patricia R <Patricia.R.DUNHAM at ci.eugene.or.us>

Subject: RE: SC - ANST - Duck recipe


Our favorite (only) duck recipe is :


Thaw, remove obvious extraneous fat.

Wash and pat dry. Rub inside with lemon juice, sprinkle with 1/2 of

ginger salt (2 T salt + 1 T ginger)


Stuff with Apricot Stuffing: Saute 1 med onion, chopped, in 4T butter

(we put this together in the wok), add 3 c. cooked bulgur and mix.  Add

1 c. dried apricots chopped (cut in at least quarters) and 1/2 c walnut

pieces. Moisten with 1 c. chicken stock.  Heat thoroughly (5-10



Set up duck high in a poultry rack in roasting pan.    The type of rack

- --   _\_/_    --  where the sides there swivel and you prop them up with

a support piece that's attached?  You set it about as vertical as you

can get it.  In a deep baking dish to catch all the fat that's going to

run off.


Prick the upper skin areas, lemon juice on the outside, sprinkle with

remaining ginger salt.


Roast at 350 for 2 1/2 hrs.  Basting is NOT necessary and will ruin the

ginger-salt layer that forms on the skin.  "Serves 4-6."


This makes a yummy salt glaze, the stuffing absorbs enough fat to make

it real tasty, and most of the river of duck-fat runs off through the

pricking. We find that a normal supermarket- size duck usually produces

around one to one and a half cups of duckfat?  over 1/4 inch deep in a

9x13 pan, so do have high-sided pans, not cookie sheets!


I can't claim more than perioid for this, tho I think it originally came

from a magazine article for a historic holiday feast, so there may be a

virtuous antecedent somewhere... anybody recognize it?  I have cooked

this in quantity, for a kingdom twelfth night (250-300?); I don't at

this moment remember if we did one or two per table-of-8.  Considering

how little meat there is on breast and drumstick, probably 2.





Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:56:58 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Duck Sauce-OOP


Duck Sauce


1 can Cherry Pie Filling

1 Orange, sliced


Put pie filling and orange slices in a saucepan.  Bring to a slow boil.

Reduce heat to low. Continue cokking for 10 mins. stirring frequently to

prevent scorching.. Spoon over individual roast duck portions.





Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:58:23 -0500

From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>

Subject: Re: ANST - Duck recipe

To: "ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>


Something you need to remember is that duck is not bred for meat, and so

you get a lot of bone and grease and not as much meat as on a

comparably-sized chicken or turkey.  You have to be careful to cook the

duck slowly so it does not dry out, and you have to check carefully to be

sure you have enough for servings for all.  Read up in a good cookbook

about duck before starting.


My experience with duck has been rather limited because of this, in

addition to which my family is full of die-hard traditionalists, and I had

an uncle who smoked our turkeys whenever it was their turn to host the

family for Thanksgiving (or any other excuse we could talk him into!).


          |\     THIS is the cutting edge of technology!


          |/   Morgan Cely Cain * Hablutzel at compuserve.com



Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:00:09 +1100 (EST)

From: Charles McCN <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>

Subject: SC - SC Duck (mmm duck)


Ducks spit roast well. Put it on a stick, nail it in place (Use a steel

nail, not a galvanised one) and roast over the fire. Stuffing is not a

bad idea. (As Phlip said, fruit makes a good stuffing. There is a recipe

for grapes and bread which I believe is period)


To make a sauce (I don't recall the original reference, but it was

presented as period), cook the liver, with a bit of wine, saffron, honey,

onion and parsley, and pepper.



Also roasted ducks feet are good, but you need a sauce. (Wash them

THOROUGHLY, and roast them in a tray with duck fat.


OOP, fill the duck with onions, and put in a tray with potatoes, carrots,

pumpkin, and serve with salad.



(Gotta go visit my friend who keeps ducks...



Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:43:22 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: SC - Re: Ice Dragon Duck


Got my computer almost all working again!  Here's the peri-oide recipe

for duck from last Ice Dragon.  There were a couple of pages of

documentation of various ways that duck was prepared in period sources.


Ice Dragon Duck


1 duck, 3-4 lbs.                          2 C. chicken broth

1 C. chopped onion                3 T. white wine

3 T. raisins                       2 T. currants

1 T. rose hips            

Pinches of grains of paradise, cinnamon, blades of mace, salt

Pinches of rosemary, fresh thyme, sorrell

Stuffing: 1 C. green grapes, 3/4 C. unblanched almonds


I simmered the duck in the broth and flavoring until very tender, turning

once. I removed the duck from the broth, allowed it to cool, removed the

skin, wing tips, and bones, setting the meat aside.  The meat was sliced,

where thick enough.  The broth was strained.  After removing the woody

bits of the herbs and spices, the grapes, raisins, currants and almonds

were run through the blender with some of the broth, in order to make a

sauce. The duck meat and sauce traveled separately, and were combined

and heated for the contest.


I wanted a slightly sweet, rich, spicy taste to the sauce and the meat,

as I thought that the stronger taste of duckócompared to chicken, capon,

et al, would benefit from the rich flavorings.  Rose hips were used in

place of rose water.  Rose water tends to be a little too sweet for the

taste I wanted for this particular dish.


Without a precise recipe to follow, this is peri-oid rather than

demonstrably period, but I feel it would not have been out of place in a

fifteenth century menu.  Attached copies of period writings demonstrate a

variety of ways in which duck, or poultry, was served in period.  These

are not all the recipes in period, or even all the recipes from any given

source. I simply wanted to show a variety.



Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:42:55 EDT

From: allilyn at juno.com

Subject: Re: SC - Determining Duck Doneness


Le Menagier de Paris      Translated by Janet Hinson



RABBIT. Take lots of good cinnamon, ginger, clove, grains, half a nutmeg

and mace, galingale, and grind very well, and soak in half verjuice and

half vinegar, and the sauce should be clear. And when the pie is just

about done, throw this sauce inside it and return to the oven to boil



(Note that the young wild duck are those which cannot yet fly until they

have felt the August rain.)


You can tell young ducks from old ones, when they are all the same size,

by the quills which on the young ones are more tender.--Item, you have to

know which ones are from the river, with delicate black toe-nails and red

feet, while those from the stable-yard have yellow feet. Item, the crest

of the head, that is to say the top, is green throughout its length, and

sometimes the males have a white patch across their necks at the nape,

and they all have very changeable plumage, including that on top of the



Wood Duck also; note that they come every three years.


Note that at Besiers they sell two sorts of wood pigeons, one sort being

small, and they are not the best, for the large ones have a better flavor

and eat acorns in the woods like pigs do; and they are eaten au boussac

like a coney, and cut in fourths: and sometimes in a young wild duck

sauce, and roast a la dodine; or if you want to keep them, let them be

put in larded pastry. And they are in season from Saint Andrew's Day

(November 30) until Lent, and they are only available every three years.


II. Another Meat Dinner of Twenty-four Dishes with Six Platters.


Fourth dish. River ducks a la dodine, tench both in soups and molded with

hot sauce[8] 26, fat capons in ...........


Supper. - Soup of twelve dozen goslings or of ten ducks



Pottages combining meat and duck, or other poultry


...and check that the meat is not overcooked, because the kid and veal

are more tender than the poultry. And when your meat is cooked to the

right point and one wants to arrange it for serving, put your meat

separately and put it on serving dishes and then put the said broth on





Book V.

3. On Goose and Duck

[anecdotes on geese]

Ducks are not much different from geese.  There is value only in the

breasts, as Martial says, and necks; give the rest back to the Cook.

Goose flesh has warmer force than duck.


Book VI

2.How Tame and Wild Birds Should be Cooked

Boil amphibious birds, that is, those seeking food on land and water;

goose, swan, duck, crane, stork, and others of almost the same nature.



Le Viandier de Taillevent

James Prescott

55. River mallards.

Pluck it dry, put it on the spit without head or feet, and collect the

fat to make the Dodine [Sauce] (to wit, add [almond] milk, wine or

verjuice, with some parsley).  [Make] long thin grilled sops.  Eat it

with fine salt.


These are snippets from my Duck file.  I'd judge that the duck was

expected to be pretty well cooked, from the boiling, soups, fat rendered

out, etc.  I've never eaten duck as rare as you describe.  In fact, I

cook all poultry thoroughly, and have always had it cooked so in

restaurants. I know we have other professional cooks on the list--how

done is your duck??????


Allison,     allilyn at juno.com



Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:45:07 +1000

From: "Glenda Robinson" <glendar at compassnet.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...


The two fat ladies say to pour boiling water over your goose before cooking

it. This contracts the follicles. We've tried it once, and it worked well.

Then prick (this works with a duck too) to let the fat drain. Baste both






Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:50:29 -0400

From: margali <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...



Take your goose, remove any large pieces of fat that are in the body cavity and reserve.Cut little slits in the skin without cutting the flesh and rub with salt and pepper. Tuck an onion and 2 apples sliced in quarters in the body cavity. Place in a roasting pan and pop in the oven at

425 degrees fahrenheit, and baste with pan drippings every 15 minutes or so for the first hour. Cover and cook for another 30-45 minutes, then baste and check for doneness. Baste periodically until it is done [I use the leg wiggle trick, if the leg joint moves freely, your goose is cooked...]


Take prosciutto, have the deli slice it 1/4 inch thick slices. Take about 4 slices and cut them into 1/4 inch dice. Take a good waxy potato and cut into small dice. Take the reserved goose fat and place in a heavy skillet. make homefries of the potato and prosciutto, seasoning with

freshly cracked black pepper or mingionette pepper[a blend of green, black, white and pink pepper corns] I find the prosciutto makes it unneedful to use salt, it has a nice rich taste to it.


Take a red cabbage and chop coarsly, saute with butter until almost done then add 2 sliced apples and saute until the apples are soft. Finish with a dressing of 1/2 cup red wine or cider vinegar, brown sugar and a small amount of black pepper, ground caraway seed and powdered galengale

[about 1/8 tsp each]





Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:33:15 -0000

From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)

Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...


I’ve had excellent results with steaming the duck (place it breast side down

on a roasting rack above a pan with some stock, cover tightly with foil,

place in a hot oven and steam for about an hour. Then uncover the duck and

pour away most of the stock and fat, brush with glaze and roast until

gloriously dark golden and crispy.


I can email the exact recipe to you if you wish, or you can find it here:



I have since experimented with other types of glaze and a simple soy

sauce/honey glaze also works well.


I’ve found that this recipe gives you a tender and juicy bird with a crispy

skin every time, and much of the fat is melted off by the steaming.





Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:17:26 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes..


Angus MacIomhair asked:

> I've got a small problem...

> I plan on cooking duck or goose this saturday.

> While I enjoy the taste of both I haven't had too much experience in cooking either of them. =(


I had never cooked a duck before, but last Yule, with some simple

instructions from Phlip, I cooked one that came out fairly well. Good

enough that I turned around and did two more with the same recipe for

my Crown Luncheon at Candlemas. The Crown and Entourage seemed to like

it. There wasn't any left over.


This is edited from a computer chat conversation with Phlip. While still

a bit rough, I think you should be able to follow it.


- -----------

Basic duck roasting, 101-


When you roast a duck, remove all the loose interior fat, and wash

it in cold water. Cut off the neck skin (use it to roast in strips

along with the rest of the duck).

Throw the fat in the bottom of the pan, and let it render.


Take a fork, and pierce the skin all over, without piercing

the flesh- to do that easily, pinch it up and pierce that.


Bare neck gets saved with the wings, for stock.


Then, take your duck, and salt the living bloody blue blazes

out of it, inside and out.


Slow roast them for 2 hours, at about 250 degrees.

Breast side up, placed on a grill so all the fat can drain.


When almost but not entirely done, Skin them, and disjoint them,

having previously removed the wings to save for stock.

Cut the skin into strips, and cook them until they're crispy.

Breast meat should be rare.

The skin should almost be done to cracklins.


Arrange the sliced breast meat on the platter around the outside,

then put the legs and thighs on one interior end of the breast meat,

and the skin on the other.


Can be served hot, but still tastes good luke warm to cold.


OK. Now, easy sauce......

A jar of jam or preserves- I used strawberry for Thanksgiving, but

marmalade or boysenberry, or whatever will work as well.


Half that volume of a dry red wine, in which you've steeped whole

peppers for several hours or overnight, and strained.


Mix together, heat, and serve next to the duck. If you can, set it

up so it stays warm and liquid over Sterno or a votive candle type

of thing, but it also is good, if a bit solid, cold.


I use whole pepper because they are easier to strain out.


Heating the wine with the peppers in it and reducing it helps too,

if you're short on time.


You don't want the sauce real hot, just liquid.

Another variation for the sauce, is to add an additional 1/4 of

the jam volume hot pepper jelly.


Won't be greasy, if you pierce the skin, salt the duck, then render

down the skin- at least, no more greasy than well-cooked french

fries or donuts.

- --

Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net



Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:13:20 -0700 (PDT)

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: SC - duck and bread


- --- Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:

> OTOH, I have a surfeit of rendered duck fat still

> sitting in my freezer from parboiling

> the little darlings back at Twelfth Night, and it

> really needs to get used ASAP.


> Selene


Extra duck fat?  Sounds like Confit makin's to me...

Actually, duck fat can be stored in a crock at room

temp for a good long while.  I use it, on rare

occasion, as a shortening in my "Duck Stuffed Bread"

(for lack of a better name).  Duck Confit and Port

Poached Duck Breast, baked inside a free-form French

loaf. It's a very nice picnic bread, and travels very

well (until you slice it).  My son loves it, and we

eat it with Fontina cheese and sparkling apple cider

(although I'm pretty sure that wine would be good with

it, too...)


As for the Bsteeya (Bstilla, Pastilla), I use ground

Pistachios, and place them between the phyllo sheets

for the top crust.  This adds a world of texture and

flavor. I haven't used duck fat for the crust yet,

but now I'll have to think about it....


Balthazar of Blackmoor



Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:57:38 -0000

From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - OOP Re: what we had for T-day


As for geese, they are ok.  They can dry out fast even though they are like

duck in the fat storage arena.  Cut off the long tips of the wings, same as

on duck. I cook mine suspended on a rack, I have a pan of water under them,

same as duck, but near the end I place a clean linen on it and keep it

saturated with broth.





Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:58:40 -0500 (EST)

From: "Marilyn Traber" <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - My Goose, not yet cooked...


> Now i'm toying with the idea of cooking goose along with the roast

> pork. Is this a reasonable idea for 80-90 people? Roughly, how many

> people does a modern goose feed?


> I worry about how to cook my goose when i get an idea of whether or

> not this is possibly affordable.


> Anahita al-shazhiyya


Well, when Rob and I do a goose, and part it out carefully we can squeeze 6 people out of one and have a carcass for rendering into

stock. Certain parts when roasted are more useable as stock makings rather than eating like the wings, both double wing sections don't

have much in the way of meat but are great for stock. The legs themselves are about the same amount of meat as a chicken, and the

thighs are a bit skinny also. But then again, a goose whole for 6 people, roasted nicely would be great looking and very opulent feeling.

Unfortunately, unless you are going to raise them, or hit up the local butchers wholesaler and buy a serious large quantity of them they

may prove to be a bit more expensive than you are willing to pay.





Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:31:06 -0800

From: Poong <sfpoong at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC - My Goose, not yet cooked...


Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Okay, then can you tell us more about this method or find out from her

> what this method involves?


Since you asked . . . .


The Goose's Details


Here is Sir Mistress Hilary's Fool-proof method of cooking the world's most

delicious goose. (i.e.: savory goose that is not fatty)


1. Remove innards and rinse inside. Rub the entire goose, inside and out with a

mixture of half coarse salt and half crushed, raw garlic. Don't worry about

peeling the garlic because you will be discarding it later. Let it rest over



2. Before cooking, rinse the goose really, really well. Put some apple and onion

inside as Hilary says "as an offering to the goose god; discard them at the end

of roasting."


3. Place on baking rack in a 500 oven for 30 minutes then suck off the fat.


4. Reduce the oven temp to 325 and cook for 25 minutes per pound.


5. After a few hours of cooking the top of the goose should be covered to prevent over browning. Old linen hankies work best but a loose tent of foil will work if you don't have linen.


6. Suck off fat every 15 to 20 minutes occasional basting top of bird with fat.

Keep an eye through the oven door and get fat as needed - probably 20 min after

you reduce heat and maybe half-hourly after that. There's a trade-off: if the fat sits in the pan with the juices, it gets goosier, but if it gets so deep it's over the rack you stew the goose.


7. Occasionally, after you suck off most of the fat, put the bulb-baster inside

the goose and pull out the liquid accumulating there. Dump it into the pan to

brown. Pull some fat from an area away from the juice and baste the goose with it (rinsing the juice out of the baster in the process).


Hilary saves the goose grease (her original motivation to have the goose party

was to get more grease) and uses it to replace most fat when cooking. The fat

that comes off the goose towards the end has a much goosier taste than the fat in the beginning. The fat keeps a long time in jars in the fridge.


This is one of Hilary's post goose fav's:

"Try a goose sammich - toast brown bread, spread lightly with goose fat, add a

layer of mild cheese (and lettuce or cabbage if you like that sort of thing).

Instant goose!"


I saw a period German recipe for goose soup: "Take fat from a goose that has been roasted and heat it with milk and sprinkle toasted bread crumbs on top."


Beatrice Merryfield



Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:33:01 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - Wolves are our cute furry friends..


>Elizabeth David wrote "How to cook a wolf",

but she used the word metaphorically, and it's a 20th century book.


The author was M.F.K. Fisher, actually. And no, there aren't any wolf

recipes, and no medieval recipes, although she quotes this rather intriguing

17th century recipe (from Secrets of Nature by Wesker, published in 1660):


"Take the goose, pull off the feathers, make a fire about her, not too close

for smoke to choke her, or burn her too soon, not too far off so she may

escape. Put small cups of water with salt and honey ... also dishes of apple

sauce. Baste goose with butter. She will drink water to relieve thirst, eat

apples to cleanse and empty her of dung. Keep her head and heart wet with a

sponge. When she gets giddy from running and begins to stumble, she is

roasted enough. Take her up, set her before the guests; she will cry as you

cut off any part and will be almost eaten before she is dead ... It is

mighty pleasant to behold."





Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:53:34 +0200

From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de

Subject: SC - Nanna's/ Porta's recipe for roasted goose




according to Wiswe (Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst, 138) the goose

recipe you quoted is extant earlier in the works of Giambattista Porta

and Alessio Piemontese (both 16th c.; there are 17th c. editions, too).

It seems that this recipe was wandering, it is also reprinted in

Balthasar Schnurr's 'Hausbuch' (German, 17th c.). And I guess one could

find still more places. On the one hand, this indicates that the recipe

was a 'literary' phenomenon, handed down and copied for its

'strangeness' in the collections of curiosities. E.g., Schnurr did not

place this text in the cookery section of his book but in the section

called "Wunder-B¸chlein"!


On the other hand: Porta reports (that he heard from old men) that this

recipe was done several times at the court of the kings of Arragon and

that _he_ prepared it too in company:

   "A little before our times, a goose was wont to be brought to

   the table of the King of Arragon, that was roasted alive, as

   I have heard by old men of credit. And when I went to try it,

   ... The rule to do it is thus ..." (follows the preparation;

   Porta, book 14, online-ed. by Scott L. Davis).



(see also Thorndike, A history of magic and experimental science, VI

421, Fn. 76, quoted by Wiswe.)



Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:07:32 -0600

From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Cruel food

To: Susan Browning <daubrecicourt at earthlink.net>,      Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Susan Browning wrote:

> Can't quote you the source, but I have seen a recipe on how to cook a

> chicken/goose? alive, and start to eat it while it is still living.

> Eleanor


Thesewere convieniently located on the Gode Cookery website:



A Goose roasted alive - from Magia Naturalis:

A Goose roasted alive. A little before our times, a Goose was wont to be

brought to the table of the King of Arragon, that was roasted alive, as I have

heard by old men of credit. And when I went to try it, my company were so

hasty, that we ate him up before he was quite roasted. He was alive, and the

upper part of him, on the outside, was excellent well roasted. The rule to do

it is thus. Take a Duck, or a Goose, or some such lusty creature, but the Goose

is best for this purpose. Pull all the Feathers from  his body, leaving his

head and his neck. Then make a fire round about him, not too narrow, lest the

smoke choke him, or the fire should roast him too soon. Not too wide, lest he

escape unroasted. Inside set everywhere little pots full of water, and put Salt

and Meum to them. Let the Goose be smeared all over with Suet, and well Larded,

that he may be the better meat, and roast the better. Put the fire about, but

make not too much haste. When he begins to roast, he will walk about, and

cannot get forth, for the fire stops him. When he is weary, he quenches his

thirst by drinking the water, by cooling his heart, and the rest of his

internal parts. The force of the Medicament loosens and cleans his belly, so

that he grows empty. And when he is very hot, it roasts his inner parts.

Continually moisten his head and heart with a Sponge. But when you see him run

mad up and down, and to stumble (his heart then wants moisture), wherefore you

take him away, and set him on the table to your guests, who will cry as you

pull off his parts. And you shall eat him up before he is dead.


Porta, Giambattista della. Magia Naturalis.

<http://members.tscnet.com/pages/omard1/jportac14.html>; (June 9, 2001)


To make a Chicken be Served Roasted - from The Vivendier:


<see chickens-msg>


Scully, Terence. The Vivendier. Devon: Prospect Books, 1997.



Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:29:11 -0800 (PST)

From: Carole Smith <renaissancespirit2 at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Thanksgiving duck

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I'll be here alone, and Rob's getting me a duck (my favorite poultry).


I think I'd like to do something period with it, but not sure what. Last time

they left me here, I did the entire Peking Duck thing, and had a  

marvelous time puttering and cooking and carrying on.


Anybody have any suggestions? I do know I want it with a crispy skin  

(best part, and DAMN the low cholesterol diet ;-)




   You could cook the duck as in Sawse Madame - Forme of Cury #32. -  

Stuff the bird with pear, quince, seedless grapes, garlic, sage,  

parsley, hyssop and savory.  Roast on a pan with a rack so you can  

easily remove rendered fat during the roasting process.


   When making the sauce, cook together wine,  

stuffing removed from the duck, some of the "grece", galingal, pouder  

douce and salt.  Cook it down a bit and pour over the dismembered bird.


   Cordelia Toser



Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 20:50:31 -0800 (PST)

From: Tre <trekatz at yahoo.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe


I'm looking at serving wild mallard at a feast at the end of this month. Here's a link to the recipe I'm currently planning on using:




The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really matter. Any suggestions?





Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 06:52:47 -0500

From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe


<<< I'm looking at serving wild mallard at a feast at the end of this

month. Here's a link to the recipe I'm currently planning on using:




The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure

whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really

matter. Any suggestions? >>>


Take Conyng, Hen, or Mallard, and roste him al-moste ynowe; or elles

choppe hem, and fry hem in fressh grece; and fry oynons myced, and

cast al togidre into a potte, and caste there-to Canell; then stepe

faire brede with the same broth, and drawe hit thorgh a streynour

with vinegre. And when hit hath wel boiled, caste the licour thereto,

and pouder ginger, and vinegre, and ceson hit vppe, and then thou

shall serue hit forth.


I don't see why the redaction has wine.  It's not mentioned in the

original. (Neither are cloves and mace, except as "season it up").

Unless they were looking at other versions of the recipe too.





Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 09:13:11 -0500

From: Alexander Clark <alexbclark at pennswoods.net>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe


<< The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure

whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really

matter. Any suggestions? >>


<<< Take Conyng, Hen, or Mallard, and roste him al-moste ynowe; or elles

choppe hem, and fry hem in fressh grece; and fry oynons myced, and

cast al togidre into a potte, and caste there-to Canell; then stepe

faire brede with the same broth, and drawe hit thorgh a streynour

with vinegre. And when hit hath wel boiled, caste the licour thereto,

and pouder ginger, and vinegre, and ceson hit vppe, and then thou

shall serue hit forth.


I don't see why the redaction has wine.  It's not mentioned in the

original. (Neither are cloves and mace, except as "season it up").

Unless they were looking at other versions of the recipe too. >>>


That recipe that doesn't mention wine, et al., is not really the

original. It's just someone's transcription of Austin's published

transcription. And it's missing a few words:


". . . caste there-to fressh broth and half wyne; . . . Cloues, Maces,

powder of Peper, . . ."


So apparently the author of the modern interpretation was working

directly and carefully from Austin, while some large errors got into

the new transcription.


P. S. That is to say, the interpretation was much more careful than

the new transcription, but they still cheated a bit by substituting

butter for grease for frying, and by putting in the vinegar before the

final seasoning. They also substituted oven-roasting for

spit-roasting, and by their own admission intentionally skipped the

part where you strain the soaked bread.


P. P. S. I find it interesting that they specified that the pepper

should be "powder". Maybe this is supposed to be another of the

recipes where the cloves and maces are put in whole.


Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark



Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:5:33 -0800

From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe


For purposes of comparison, our redaction from the Miscellany:


4 1/2 lb duckling,

or 3 lbs chicken

or 3 lb rabbit

1/4 t mace

1/4 t pepper

1 t cinnamon

lard for frying

6 slices bread

1/2 lb onions

2 T red wine vinegar

2 c chicken broth

1/4 t ginger

1 c wine

[1/2 t salt]

? t cloves

1 T vinegar


Roast the duck, chicken or rabbit for about

an hour and a quarter. Bone the meat, or break

it into small pieces. Chop onions and fry them

in 2 t of the drippings for about five minutes,

until they turn yellow. Add dismembered

chicken (or ?), broth, wine, cloves, mace,

pepper and cinnamon to the pot, bring to a

simmer, and cook twenty minutes.

Meanwhile, tear up the bread, spoon about

1 c of the liquid from the pot over the bread,

and let it soak for 3-4 minutes. Add 2 T

vinegar, force through a strainer or mash very

thoroughly, and add to the pot along with

ginger and another T of vinegar. Bring back to

a boil, stirring, and serve.



Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:49:25 -0500

From: Alec Story <avs38 at cornell.edu>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chinese Roast Goose / Duck


I translated this recipe with a friend of mine who had an extra roast duck

thawing and wanted to do something with it.  I thought I'd share.


Use goose or duck breast meat. If whole, use a hammer to shatter the bones.

Take up ginger, pepper [sichuan or black, unclear], sourpeel tangerine [*Citrus reticulata*] peel, scallion, barbarian [western] celery, rocambole [or sandleeks, unclear], salt, and fermented beans. Cut them and join them, and then smear it over the meat. Roast it whole on a skewer. Cleave off the

breast meat, and take the bones, and lay it out like you had made common

boiled duck.


The original:


This recipe is from Qimin Yaoshu

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qimin_Yaoshu>, a 544 CE farm manual from

northwest China.


She was lacking some of the ingredients and made some daring substitutions,

but this sounds like  a pretty reasonable recipe to me.  The sour orange

peel is used in traditional Beijing Duck preparation today.


??rfinnr Hr??geirsson


<the end>

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