Period pomegranates. Finding pomegranates, pomegranate seeds and pomegranate Juice. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: fruits-msg, apples-msg, sauces-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, fruit-melons-msg, beverages-msg, fruit-pears-msg, medlars-msg, plums-msg.
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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:52:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - frozen pomegranate seeds
> Crystal of the Westermark asked:
> >Help, please. The feast I was planning did not happen. I have two gallon
> >sized ziplocks (TM) of frozen pomegranate seeds. Any suggestions on what
> >I can do with them that would not be expensive?
A bit over a year ago my wife and I did a Catalan feast from the Llibre
de Sent Sovi and Llibre del Coch (14-15th centuries). Recipe 109 in the
latter follows, in our translation:
109 Salsa Camelina
Take two or three pomegranates [albars] and strain them all through a
piece of clean linen. And when they are strained, press them well to
extract the juice well. And afterwards take a bit of toasted bread and
soak it in the aforementioned juice. And afterwards take a good
quantity of ground cinnamon and put it with the bread. And afterwards
grind it well in a mortar. And when it is ground up, temper it up with
good broth and the juice of the aforementioned pomegranates and vinegar
which isn't too strong. And after that it goes on the fire to boil,
stirring all the time, until it is thick, but put in the pot before it
boils a lump of fine sugar. And it's done.
First redaction:
1 C breadcrumbs
1/2 C pomegranate juice
1/2 C beef broth
2 T wine vinegar
1 T cinnamon
1 tsp white sugar
This may be too much breadcrumbs; it looks like it's turning into
Cameline Glue....
Second try:
1/4 cup breadcrumbs
3/4 cup pomegranate juice
1/4 cup beef broth
2 T wine vinegar
1 T cinnamon
1 tsp white sugar
Possibly too thin now (depending on how long you simmer it). The
increased pomegranate makes it nicely tart, at least by Steve's standards....
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:57:52 -0000
From: cnevin at caci.co.uk
Subject: SC - RE: pomegranate molasses
From: Aelfwyn at aol.com <mailto:Aelfwyn at aol.com>
We have been talking about both pomegranate molasses and
pomegranate sauce. How do these compare to grenadine syrup? And what type
of market/specialty store might I find the first 2 in if they are different?
I love pomegranates and this thread has made me very hungry.
- - Aelfwyn
Middle eastern stores sell them.
Sauce and Molasses are good, but nothing beats the real thing, quite aside
from the fact you don't have all the other additives and alternate
consistency (though they dilute well). I'd never tasted a real pomegranate
until I came to London, but I am now hooked. Definitely one of my top 5
favourite fruits. However, one thing I've found with using real pomegranates
for juice is that you generally end up needing twice the number stated in
the redaction. Maybe we just get smaller pomegranates in the UK? <smile>
Which Chicken in Pomegranate Sauce recipe are you using Luveday?
Cordialmente,
Lucretzia
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:57:34 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
Christi Rigby wrote:
> There is no substitute. Pomegranate taste and the hassle of them are very
> hard to substitute. The entire fruit of the pomegranate is in the seeds.
> They are little red seeds inside a casing that has to be removed. You
> should be able to find them in the grocery store in the fruit and veggie
> aisle.
Christi's right- there really is no substitute. Pomegranates taste
like... pomegranates. But there's a bazillion of the little seeds
inside, so if you only need a few...
They are usually about the size of a softball, and have a mottled light
red skin. The blossom end has the little 'chimney' that sticks out, with
lots of tiny pistils inside, rather like a fig (come to think of it, are
they related to figs? does anyone know?). Pick one that feels 'heavy'
and has no brown spots or soft spots. Around here they're seasonal- oh,
November to February. They're best around Christmastime. The groceries
around here usually stock them with the 'weird' fruit- pomelos,
uglifruit, kumquats, starfruit, etc. They've been about $2 each this
year, but the quality has been good.
Getting one open is a trick- there's not slot or tab to start it with. I
usually feel around until I can find one of the obvious segment
divisions, then I smack it on the edge of the counter, kind of like
those chocolate oranges (another of my vices). Wrench it apart- it will
squirt juice everywhere, and IT WILL NOT WASH OUT, so don't wear your
best white dinner jacket. After that, it's just a matter of picking the
seeds out. The seeds look like jewels- they're a brilliant deep red and
have little 'facets'. Your fingers will be stained, and so will your
mouth. But it's worth it. And- don't bother trying to bite the pulp off
and spit the actual seed out- it's not worth it, you'll lose pulp, and
besides that- seeds that size won't hurt you- Granny called them
'roughage'!
Happy hunting!
'Lainie
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:26:57 EST
From: LadyPDC at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
There is a pomegranate farm in California which has a web page, sorry messy
desk and can't seem to find the address right now, where they freeze the
produce which they don't sell in season and sell if privately over the net to
those of us who want the fruit out of season. I have had very good luck with
them and their prices are reasonable.
Constance de LaRose
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:43:46 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
stefan at texas.net writes:
<< This recipe seems to just use the seeds raw. Or is there something else
you are supposed to do first? >>
Just use them raw. They have a very pleasant peppery taste and are not hard
like some seeds.
Ras
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:17:51 -0800 (PST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?rachel=20mccormack?= <rachel_lothian at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Re: SC pomegranate seeds
Dried pomegranate seeds can be bought at shops
selling Indian and Pakistani spices. These, and a lot
of other unusual spices are very often found in these
shops more easily than anywhere else.
Rachel McCormack
Barcelona, Spain
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:32:11 +1100
From: Robyn.Hodgkin at affa.gov.au
Subject: RE: SC - Re: SC pomegranate seeds/syrup
This might be of assistance too if you can't get fresh pomegranates, don't
forget grenadine - pomegranate syrup! You should be able to buy grenadine
quite easily; it is used in many cocktails.
In case you have a glut of pomegranates, I found this recipe for grenadine
while I was wandering:
Yield: 2 cups
2 Pomegranates, medium-large*
2 1/2 c Sugar
1/2 c Water
*When choosing pomegranates, reject any with a brownish area on the
blossom end; such discoloration indicates the beginning of spoilage
and off-flavor.
Cut pomegranates open crosswise and pry out the fleshy crimson seeds
(the red part is actually the pulpy envelope around a seed), using
the tip of a blunt knife. Be careful not to include any fragments of
the cottony white pulp in which the seeds are embedded, as it is
bitter. You should have about two cups of seeds.
Using a food processor or blender, chop the seeds with the sugar and
water just long enough to make a rough puree. Don't attempt to make
a smooth mixture; it's necessary only to break open the pulpy
membranes.
Pour the puree into an earthenware or glass bowl; cover it with a
cloth. Let stand at room temperature for 3 days, stirring it daily.
If the weather is extremely hot, refrigerate the puree after 24 hours.
Line a sieve with dampened, very fine nylon net or two layers of
dampened fine cheesecloth and set it over a saucepan of
stainless-steel or other nonreactive material. Filter the
pomegranate syrup into the pot, allowing it to drip without pressing
on the pulp. This will take a few hours; you can speed matters up by
tying the cheesecloth lining of the sieve into a bag and suspending
it above the pot after the initial flow of juice has slowed down.
When all the juice has dripped through, discard the seedy pulp.
Bring the syrup to a bare simmer (180 F) over medium-low heat, then
reduce the heat to very low and scald the syrup, using a candy/jelly
thermometer and watching to be sure you keep the temperature below
200 F, for 3 minutes.
Skim off any foam, then funnel the syrup into a sterilized, dry
bottle. Let the syrup cool, then cap or cork the bottle (use a new
cork only) and store it in the refrigerator.
To seal the syrup for pantry storage, funnel it into hot, clean
half-pint canning jars. Seal with new two-piece canning lids
according to manufacturer's directions. Following the method for a
boiling-water bath, but keeping the water at simmering temperature
(190 F), process the jars for 15 minutes. Cool, label, and store.
Yield: About 2 cups. Keeps in either the refrigerator or, after
canning, in the pantry for at least a year.
Kiriel
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:06:59 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Pomegranate concentrate (was Re: SC - Re:Juice of Sour Oranges)
And it came to pass on 29 Mar 00,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> I've got this problem with a
> pomegranate concentrate. I don't know if I need to add water or
> not to get back to a pomegranate juice. And they don't say on the
> bottle.
Is this Cortas brand concentrate? Indeed, the bottle lacks this info, but
I found it on the web when I was redacting a pomegranate sauce. If you
take 1/4 cup concentrate and 3/4 cup water, you will have a reasonable
facsimile of pomegranate juice.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:43:34 -0500
From: grizly at mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Re: Pomegranate concentrate (was Re: SC - Re:Juice of Sour Oranges)
<<<<<Actually, the stuff I am referring to has just enough sugar to take away the bitterness of the pomegranate. It is not syrupy-sweet. Maybe that's still too sweet...I don't know. Just thought I'd deliver the info.
Balthazar of Blackmoor>>>>>>
Texts refer to sweet and sour pomegranates, so it would depend on what you were trying to use. BTW, if you add the pomegranate concentrated 'molasses' to some water, apple juice and honey, you can ferment out one da*ned fine melomel. Pomegranate wine is referenced by Pliny the Elder as well as cargo manifests from 14th century Naples. I have discovered no extant recipes or infredient lists for dame, so we came up with this mixture as an approximation of what 'could be'. The straight pomegrante and honey (with water to dilute) turned out a wine very bitter, with a somewhat bitter aftertaste, giving it the overall impression of bitter. That pomegranate bitter that you get in little squirts when you eat the seeds will get REALLY concentrated when you make a wine with them.
YMMV, but when you use a case of 32 fesh pomegranates and squeeze the little buggers for juice, you will get in the neighborhood of one gallon of fresh, clear juice. It was an adventure relished, but not wanted for repeat. We found the bottled juice and molasses work just as well for this application.
niccolo difrancesco
frementer of nigh anything that won't jump out of the brewpot :o)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:46:04 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Pomegranate seed
harper at idt.net writes:
<< How does one use them? As is? >>
Yes, as is. As a spice. I usually grind mine and sprinkle over things
<<Or can they be reconstituted, >>
They could possibly be soaked for a few hours. I have always used them ground.
<<and how close are they to fresh seeds? >>
Their flavor is more concentrated than fresh ones. A spicy tangy sort of
flavor. It is hard to describe.
Ras
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:07:11 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
dekmister at juno.com writes:
<< Do you know how to dry the seeds for future use? We have 4 good
sized Pomegranate bushes in our yard. It would be nice not to have so
many of the fruits go to waste. Thanks! >>
There are 3 methods I have used with more or less success.
1) Remove the seeds from the pomegranate and using a sieve press as much of
the pulp from them as possible. Rinse. And repeat as necessary. Spread on a
clean tray and leave in a warm dry place until thoroughly dried. This is the
preferred method for me.
2) Leave the entire fruit in a warm dry place until it hardens and dries.
Simply crack the rind and use the seeds.
3) Place the seeds on a tray and put them in your oven until thoroughly
dried. The pilot light in a gas oven will provide the heat for the drying
process.
Methods 2 and 3 yields the additional benefit of being able to make
pomegranate liquid from the seeds when they are soaked in water but neither
of these methods produce consistently good results, IMO.
Ras
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 03:21:01 EDT
From: CBlackwill at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
allilyn at juno.com writes:
> Since you have so many, just for the sake of experimentation, could you
> oil one of them with olive oil, then use wax or parafin on another, and
> see how they keep? I'd really like to know how they were transported and
> stored. Enough English and German recipes call for the seeds that the
> merchants had a way to move them around that may have been more
> protective than just filling baskets or sacks.
I think the seeds would probably keep very well after drying (Ras?), and were
probably shipped in this manner, rather than as whole fruit. If your
question is in regards to the whole fruit (which it seems to be) I know that
a good number of craft stores here in California offer them complete and
dried as elements for dried flower arrangements and the like. There doesn't
appear to be any holes or openings in them which would indicate that the
seeds had been removed, either. The "shells" are rather woody after
drying,(very much like a bottle gourd) though I don't know the actual process
used. Has anyone who keeps or grows pomegranates ever noticed them to rot
quickly? Do the shells remain intact? I am not familiar with the shelf life
of a pomegranate, but it seems that if the seeds were the most valued part of
the fruit, then perhaps they did not ship the whole fruit. Does anyone have
reference for whole pomegranates on any ship manifests or caravan lists?
Balthazar of Blackmoor
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:34:21 -0500
From: Deacon C Swepston <dekmister at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
<<Has anyone who keeps or grows pomegranates ever noticed them to rot
quickly? Do the shells remain intact?>>
Balthazar -
The ground under/around our pomegranate bushes are still littered
with the remains of last years crop and a few still clung to the branches
until they leafed out this spring. Generally speaking, most every pod
burst open as it dried on the bush. We've only been in this house just a
couple months over a year, so I've only had one season to observe the
pomegranates. The fruit was wonderful fresh. Much more sharp/tart than
the store bought variety and these aren't red. They're more
yellowish/orangish.
Melusine
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:30:46 -0500
From: "Michael Newton" <melcnewt at netins.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pomegranate juice
Being stuck here in the wilds of NE Iowa, I went searching on the Internet
for Pomegranate sites (I want to have Caradac's spiced pomegranate syrup
drink at my demo this August)
the best one I found (price wise) is:
www.pomegranateconnection.com
they have fresh pomegranates (in season), juice, nectar,vinegars, syrup and
jellies, as well as non-edible pomegranate products.
Check it out-you might find something you like.
Beatrix
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 12:35:21 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know anything about this particular
> variety? I have verified in a web search that there are
> pomegranates so pale as to be called white, but I don't know how
> they compare to the red ones.
>
> Is there a fruit maven in the house?
Will a research maven do? UC Davis has a leaflet on Growing Pomegranates in
California <http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/pomeg3.html>; that mentions in
passing:
"Varieties:
Because of the wide fruit variation arising form seedlings, many pomegranate
varieties have been selected and grown from cuttings through the centuries.
The pink or red-flowered type includes most of the common and all the desirable
and commercial varieties of pomegranates. The trees are deciduous in the interior valleys and semideciduous along the coast. The fruit is round oblate or obovate in form with rind varying from thick to thin. Color of the outside and inside varies form off-white to purplish or bright crimson. The seed may vary in size and hardness, some varieties seeming to be "seedless.,"others being almost
inedible because of large, hard seed. In general, varieties having whitish or pinkish fruit are usually sweeter than the dark crimson varieties."
None of them seem to be widely commercially available, but at least they do
exist.
Selene
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:16:10 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
harper at idt.net writes:
<< Does anyone on the list know anything about this particular
variety? I have verified in a web search that there are
pomegranates so pale as to be called white, but I don't know how
they compare to the red ones.
Is there a fruit maven in the house?
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain >>
Not a fruit maven but.....
On my trip to Wales, it seemed as if even the tiniest grocewr had
pomegranates. All of these popegranates were a very pale color with no red in
the skin color at all. Being adventurous and never having seen these in my
little part of America, I bought one. The flavor very sweet, totally unlike
the red pomegranate which tends toward the sourish side. I would say that
these were definitely what could be called 'white' pomegranates.
Ras
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:18:21 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
And it came to pass on 10 Dec 00, , that LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> The flavor very sweet, totally unlike
> the red pomegranate which tends toward the sourish side. I would say that
> these were definitely what could be called 'white' pomegranates.
Thank you. It's very helpful to have a first-hand account of what
they're like.
From what I've read, the red pomegranates that are sold in U.S.
markets are of varieties that are considered sweet. The sour
cultivars are reserved for making pomegranate syrup and other
such products. If what you ate was sweeter than a red
pomegranate, then that tells me a lot about white pomegranates.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:53:11 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
And it came to pass on 10 Dec 00, , that grizly at mindspring.com wrote:
> A couple of recipes in The Original Meiterranean Cuisine and
> another one I cannot put a name to right now call for botha sweet
> and sour pomegranates. We may have hit upon the two varieties
> Mentioned.
>
> niccolo
I don't know. Period sources actually refer to three kinds of
pomegranates: sweet, sour, and sweet-sour ("agradulces"). The
_Obra de Agricultura_ has a chapter on pomegranates, but says
nothing about differences in color, only that they are classified by
flavor.
Nola has many recipes that call for pomegranates and
pomegranate juice, and he also identifies them by the three flavor
categories. The only exception is this one recipe for cameline
sauce, which says to take "granadas albares" which are white
pomegranates. If 16th century pomegranates had the same
characteristics as the modern ones, perhaps this would be a sub-
category of sweet pomegranates -- extra-sweet.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:04:34 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
Root comments on pomegranates, that they come in the colors gold, red, green
and white. Other comments suggest the taste is not related to the color,
but that you may have a range of tastes within a color as there are with
cherries. Root also suggests that the problem of the sourness of
pomegranates is that ornamentation was chosen over taste outside of the
countries that commonly eat pomegranates.
Bear
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:39:05 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - pomegarnate juice
Maire wrote:
>Hi, Phillipa. I can actually get pomegranate juice at my local health
>food store--it's produced by R.W. Knudsen (they make lots of juices).
I have a bottle of this. Very tasty, i like tart juices.
>If your local store doesn't pan out, you could try using grenadine
>syrup; although it's really sweet, it is based on pomegranates, and you
>could always add lemon juice or something to "tart" it up.
Hmmm, most of the grenadine syrups i've seen these days are
artificially flavored and colored. Originally grenadine was indeed
pomegranate syrup, but, well... So read the label carefully.
>Or if you
>were more going for the color and the tartness, what about cranberry
>juice?
That's a good suggestion. I agree that cranberry juice would be a
good substitute.
Anahita amina al-maktabah
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:17:24 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - pomegarnate juice
Order it online:
<http://www.russianfoods.com/showroom/product011A7/vendor003E7/default.asp>;
Selene
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:50:51 -0500
From: grizly <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: HOW???Re: SC - pomegranate juice
Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> I tried to make juice from pomegranetes
> once.. all I got was...NOTHING! How do you juice a pomegranete?
> Phillipa
When I did it to extract the juice to make wine/melomel, we went through
quite a process. Basically, peeling the buggers, pulling all the seed
pustules out and running them through a hand cranked food mill. Took
about three hours for 45 fruits to yield 3 quarts of juice.
Took three weeks to clear all the polka dots from my friends kitchen.
BEHIND the refrigerator? We never figured it out.
pacem et bonum,
niccolo difrancesco
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:38:41 -0600
From: "KarenO" <karen_ostrowski at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Syrup of Pomegranates
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I am looking at the syrup of pomegranates from Cariadoc's Miscellany. I
was thinking of making some for Rosh Hashanah. One thing I could use some
help on. I was planning to just run down to the Shuk and get Pomegranates,
and I'm not sure how to take the seeds and make them into Juice.
> --Yehoshua ben Haym haYerushalmi
> Jerusalem Israel
The skin is very leathery, so score as you would an orange peel, place
the fruit in a deep bowl of water, and then gently peel away the scored
skin. The bowl of water is so you don't accidentally break the juicy seeds
and spurt juice -- it will stain. Gently scoop the seeds from the core &
skin, place them in another bowl or vessel & gently squeeze/mash the seeds
to extract the juice. strain to separate juice from seeds and keep going!
Ir if you have an orange juicer, treat the pomegranates as if they were
oranges -- except watch for the spurting highly staining juice.
There is available commercial Pomegranate juice -- I bought some at a
local health food store, a bit pricy at $5 something for a quart.
Indo-European brand {product of Lebanon} has Pomegranate molasses,
which is basically concentrated pomegranate juice.
Caointiarn
Billings, Montana
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:07:38 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Syrup of Pomegranates
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
You can use a juicer. I think a gentle whiz with a blender would work, too.
Or, you can be really sneaky and just buy the juice. Knudsen's makes a
100% pomegranate juice--I can get it at my local hippy/organic food
store (it's a local beast known as the "Good Food Store", and no, you
can't buy hippies there <g>).
--maire
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:37:39 -0400
From: Sandra Kisner <sjk3 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Syrup f Pomegranates
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> and spurt juice -- it will stain. Gently scoopthe seeds from the core &
> skin, place them in another bowl or vessel & gently squeeze/mash the seeds
> to extract the juice. strain to separate juice from seeds and keep going!
Or put the seeds in a bag and squeeze that, then pour
off/strain the juice.
Sandra
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:05:29 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Syrup of Pomegranates
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I should think that bottled pomegranate juice would be available in
Israel. Evidently our friend Yehoshua is a tough intrepid cook-type
person and trying it out on his own. Fresh is always better! I'm with
you about the gentle whiz with a blender, but I might cook them a little
first. Don't bother adding water, just squish them a little bit, they
will yield enough liquid for the purpose. If you're really intrepid
and historical, cook the liberated pomegranate seeds gently then put
them through a cheesecloth bag and squeeze out the lovely essence. Wear
rubber gloves if you don't want purple hands, this stuff stains like
crazy.
L'Shana Tova, Selene Colfox
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:38:44 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Syrup of Pomegranates
To: Cooks within the SA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I am looking at the syrup of pomegranates from Cariadoc's
> Miscellany. I was thinking of making some for Rosh Hashanah. One
> thing I could use some help on. I was planning to just run down to
> the Shuk and get Pomegranates, and I'm not sure how to take the seeds
> and make them into Juice.
>
> --Yehoshua ben Haym haYerushalmi
> Jerualem Israel
We've generally bought pomegranate juice, so I'm afraid I can't help
you.
On the other hand ... . I think the original specifies half sweet
and half sour pomegranates. I believe I have seen a modern reference
implying that the distinction still exists, but I've never actually
seen anything labeled "sour pomegranates." With luck, you can find
both kinds in the Shuk, and report on how it comes out if you do it
right.
--
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:13:06 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Syrup of Pomegranates
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Someone told me that grenadine is pomegranate syrup, if the result is
> what you're looking for rather than the process.
>
> Nancy Kiel
Grenadine is pomegranate juice (from French, grenade meaning pomegranate).
I vaguely remember mention that it has sugar added and it has been cooked
down into a thin syrup. Also, pomegranate juice from a Middle Eastern
markey is usually a lot cheaper.
Bear
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:55:53 -0500
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranite Juice
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I have a local source for pomegranite juice. I adore pomegranites.
> Does anyone have any suggestions other than jelly? Period or Periodish
> would be best.
>
> Samrah
Pliny discusses in a couple of places the existance of Pomegranate wine! I
added some honey and apple juice to the must to make it less . . .
pomegranatey. When you ferment, you remove sugar and intensify the flavors,
and it gets really bitter without some help from the apples.
There are also is a pomegranate chicken recipe from Scully's Neapolitan
Cuisine. I have my version webbed at
http://franiccolo.home.mindspring.com/sapore_bono_granate.html
Seems there are persian ones as well.
maestro niccolo difrancesco
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:52:07 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persephone and pomegranite seeds
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On Nov 23, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> So pomegranites were known in Italy and Greece in classical times?
Yes.
> Or has the meaning of this name changed through the centuries and
> been applied to different fruits?
Not that I know of...
> I don't think I've even seen a pomegranite. The seeds are edible?
Well, sort of. I'm sure you could eat the actual seeds and suffer no
ill effects, within reasonable limits. What we usually mean, though,
by "seeds" in this case, are more like kernels. The pomegranate has a
rind, a little like an orange (except it's usually a deep, pinkish
red), and inside, sections (again, something like an orange, only
there's no skin or membrane around each section). Each section
consists of small juice-bearing kernels, somewhat like the little
juice cells in an orange, only each has a small, white seed. You eat
the kernels (each shaped something like a small kernel of maize
corn), with most people spitting put the actual seed.
You try (usually unsuccessfully) to keep the juice off your
fingertips as you navigate and eat the pomegranate, because it
stains the fingertips something fierce.
I gather not all pomegranates are red; all the ones I've ever seen
have been, though. They're pretty much in season now through January
or so, I believe.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:10:40 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persephone and pomegranite seeds
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> So pomegranites were known in Italy and Greece in classical times? Or
> has the meaning of this name changed through the centuries and been
> applied to different fruits? I don't think I've even seen a
> pomegranite. The seeds are edible?
I am sure you've seen them. You've just not known what
they were. Search pomegranate under google images and there are
all sorts of photos. Ignore the girl advertising Juicy Couture Smocked
Tub..!
Here's a good description from the BBC
Pomegranate
Originating in Asia, the pomegranate tree is mentioned in the Old
Testament and has been a symbol of religious significance for centuries
in many countries. Now cultivated in the warm climates of South America,
the Middle East, the Canary Islands and the Mediterranean, the fruit is
available in Britain from early to mid-winter. About the size of a large
orange, it has a leathery skin with a blush of yellow and red. Inside
there is spongy pith filled with seeds, which are, in turn, surrounded
by a juicy, ruby red pulp. Eating a pomegranate can be a lengthy process
as each pip has to be individually extracted, the juicy pulp eaten and
the pips discarded (although they can be eaten if you find this too
fiddly). The easiest way to extract the juice is by crushing the seeds
through a sieve with the back of a ladle. This can be used to flavour
mousse, fool, ice cream or sorbet. Grenadine is pomegranate syrup; it is
great in drinks and is a good addition to the cocktail cabinet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/in_season/december.shtml
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:22:35 -0500
From: Irmgart <irmgart at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persephone and pomegranite seeds
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
This is my favorite time of year in the States because we can get
pomegranates!
I've been eating 1-2 a week since the middle of October and am sad that
they're now going out of season.
I've introduced them to a lot of people this year. My favorites have been
the ones from the local Food Lion which are PomWonderful brand (same folks
that make PomWonderful Pomegranate Juice). They're freaking *huge!* About
twice the size of "normal" poms.
A couple of my friends seem to prefer the "start at the blossom end and try
to peel the tough leathery skin and membrane off until you get to the yummy
garnet seeds" approach. This does work, but it's usually way too much like
work for me!
I usually use a knife to score the skin into sections (kind of like an
orange peel, go about as deep as you would for a thick skinned orange, and
do it over a plate or napkins, it's *messy*!), then try to pry it apart into
chunks. If that doesn't work, of if I'm feeling lazy, I'll hold it over a
bowl and just cut the thing in half (either direction, I tend towards
blossom to stem end rather than horizontally).
Pluck the seeds out and eat them! you can either eat the hard actual seed
part, or not. I do, a lot of people don't. There's plenty of "stuff" left
over either way, so not eating the hard part of the seeds is not the end of
the world. :)
If it's a really plump one, be sure you have plenty of napkins and possibly
a damp towel, or a very close friend! (yes, poms can be *that* kind
of food ^_^)
Hope that helps!
-Irmgart
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:06:52 -0700
From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persephone and pomegranite seeds
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I don't read Greek, and my Latin never got into copies of myths, being
mostly concerned with the political satire of Catullus, or the wanderings of
Virgil's Aeneid, but I've never heard of the fruit that Persephone ate in
the underworld as being anything except pomegranite seeds. It's also one of
the only fruits that I'm (personally) aware of, in which one distinctly eats
the seed (or whatever the little capsule around each seed is actually
called), and discards the other parts of the fruit. The pomegranites I see
for sale here range in size from small apples to medium grapefruits. They
have a leathery, usually reddish outer skin, and the interior of the fruit
has a dryish, creamy-colored membrane that creates a number of goodly
pockets within the fruit. The pockets within this membrane are crammed full
of ruby-red, translucent "seeds" that each comprise an actual seed
surrounded by a shell of the fruit part (There's a technical term, but I
don't recall it right now.) Pomegranites remind me a bit of a raspberry
with a leather coat on--there's something of the same composite nature to
them.
--Maire
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:45:33 -0500
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Persephone and pomegranite seeds
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Something else it has been a symbol for forever is fertility. Not only is
it a fruit (fertil right there), it has the multiple seeds like an ovary
(interesting since they didn't have a clear picture of that in antiquity),
and it is red like blood.
Add to that a fact I recently found out during a lecture on Women's Health
issues, the juice of the pommegranate is very high in bioflavinoids, and
helps the fertility process in young women. It is actually
counter-indicated in pre-menopausal women because it affects hormones to the
point of increasing the risks of breast cancer. (Only for women past the
main fertility cycles.) So, talk about the question of which came first -
but this is one food that not only symbolizes fertility, it actively
helps it along!
Christianna
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:33:13 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO of Recipe for Pomagrante Sauce
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
I have found many mentions of pomagrante Sauce in a few french books but can
not fine a recipe for it.. anyone have one?
Lisabetta > > > > >
It ain't French, but I suspect it is related to Catalan influences.
Scully's Neapolitan Cuisine is my source . . . not sure how I missed putting
the original language on that page. I put most of them with the latin AND
Scully's translation. Hmmmm. I'll scare it up if anyone wants/needs it
http://franiccolo.home.mindspring.com/sapore_bono_granate.html
Sapore Bono
A Good Sauce (#102)
Niccolo's Recipe
Makes 1 quart (about 16 to 20 servings)
3 cups Pomegranate syrup/molasses (found at middle Eastern Stores)
1 to 2 cups water
1/2 cup wine
1/2 pound sugar
1/2 ounce Cinnamon, gound
Combine Pomegranate syrup, water and wine in large saucepan. Dissolve sugar
and cinnamon over medium heat and bring to a boil, stirring occasionally.
Let simmer over medium heat for 30 to 45 minutes, stirring frequently to
avoid scorching.
Serve with roasted meats.
NOTE: If you can find pomegranate juice, you may substitute this for the
pomegranate syrup and water. You will need to boil longer to reduce and
bring to serving consistency.
ORIGINAL TEXT & TRANSLATION
Scully, T. (2000). Cuoco Napoletano - The Neapolitan Recipe
Collection: a critical edition and English translation.
Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.
niccolo difrancesco
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:33:13 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO of Recipe for Pomagrante Sauce
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
I have found many mentions of pomagrante Sauce in a few french books but can
not fine a recipe for it.. anyone have one?
Lisabetta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Another I found from a different feast:
Libre del coch/The Original Mediterranean Cuisine by Barbara Santich
Primary Source:
Salcero Para Perdius O Gallines En Ast: Ametles belles e blanques e pcar-les
has be en un moter. E quant sien ben picades, destempra-les ab suc de
magranes agres. E apres met in lo morter sucre polvorizat, canyella e
gingembre, perque la sua color e sabor vol tirar casi canyella. E no la cal
passar per nengun cedac. E vet asi tot fet.
Translation: Take fine white almonds and grind them well in a mortar. And
when they are well pounded, blend with the juice of sour pomegranates. Then
add to the mortar powdered sugar, cinnamon, and ginger, because in the
colour and flavour cinnamon should predominate. And this sauce does not
need to be strained.
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:46:58 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO of Recipe for Pomagrante Sauce
To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
grizly wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have found many mentions of pomagrante Sauce in a few french
> books but can not fine a recipe for it.. anyone have one?
>
> Lisabetta > > > > >
>
> It ain't French, but I suspect it is related to Catalan influences.
> Scully's Neapolitan Cuisine is my source . . . not sure how I missed putting
> the original language on that page. I put most of them with the latin AND
> Scully's translation. Hmmmm. I'll scare it up if anyone wants/needs it
> http://franiccolo.home.mindspring.com/sapore_bono_granate.html
This one isn't French either...it's from Platina, but it is really
super...I served it over roasted pork:
/De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine/ of Platina, trans. Mary Ellen
Milham
Book VIII, 7. /Moretum Persicinum/*//*
*/ /*/Amygdalas mundas cum excavato ac remollito pane bene tundito.
Tunsis parum gingiberis et cinnami addito, acresta deinde vino nigro,
succo mali punici dissolvito, transagitoque per setaceum excretorium in
catinum aut in patinas. Sunt qui sandalos tunsos his rebus addant. Hoc
edulium parum alit, diu moratur in stomacho, bilem tamen reprimit, ac
aestuanti hepatic prodest. * */
* Persian Relish*
* *Thoroughly crush cleaned almonds with crumbled and softened bread.
When they are crushed, add a little ginger and cinnamon, then soak in
verjuice, red wine, and juice of pomegranate, and pass through a sieve
into a bowl or serving dishes. Some add crushed dates to this. This
dish is of little nourishment and delays for a long time the stomach,
but it represses bile and is good for an upset liver.
My redaction:
1/2 cup whole blanched and peeled Almonds
1/4 cup breadcrumbs
1/8 tsp. ginger
1/8 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 cup verjuice
1/4 cup red wine
1/4 cup pomegranate juice
5 ea. dates, crushed
Blanch and peel almonds. Grind them, and then mix in breadcrumbs and
dates, grinding after each. Add ginger and cinnamon to mixture. Move
to a bowl and add verjuice, red wine and pomegranate juice. Strain and
serve.
Kiri
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:27:44 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO of Recipe for Pomagrante Sauce
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> I have found many mentions of pomagrante Sauce in a few french
> books but can not fine a recipe for it.. anyone have one?
>
> Lisabetta
The one I know is Greek and is simply simmered pomegranate juice thickened
with breadcrumbs to which pine nuts are added. I don't have any
documentation, but it is very likely a carry over from Antiquity.
Bear
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:01:01 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranite seeds
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Did y'all see on Iron Chef how they extracted the seeds from
the pomegranite? By cutting it in half and whacking the heck
out of the outside with a spoon. Nice. That's like how I learned
to peel kiwis in the restaurant. Just cut in half or cut the ends
off and then run a spoon around the inside of the skin. Easy.
How do you juice pomegranite seeds anyway? I love them but
hate having the hard pips.
Gunthar
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:45:44 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranite seeds
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
>>>> How do you juice pomegranite seeds anyway? I love them but
> hate having the hard pips. <SNIP < < < <
I can tell you that if you pop all the seeds out and then run them through a
hand-crank food mill, you will get ,lots of good juice and pulp from them .
. . . both in your bowl and on your ceiling, walls, cat, counter, floor,
your living room, your closet . . . . .
niccolo difrancesco
(3 cases thus processed to make a pomegranate melomel)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:03:59 -0400
From: Sandra Kisner <sjk3 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Chicken Salad
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> I've tried juicing a pomegranate, and, boy, it makes a
> mess... It's easier if you put the seeds in a clean thin cloth (like
> muslin) and squeeze and wring over a large bowl. For use fresh, yes,
> it tastes, well, fresher than bottled.
Or put the seeds in a plastic bag and roll it around, squashing
things. Then strain it or pour it through muslin.
Sandra
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:23:41 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Pomegranate Juice
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Those interested in the new pomegranate products may want to take
a look at the May 2007 issue of Fine Cooking.
Their Test Kitchen section is featuring pomegranate products on pages
74-75 with mail order sources on page 78. Pomegranate molasses, juice,
vinegar and syrup are mentioned.
Johnnae
On 3/4/07, Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Pomegranate juice first started hitting the market
> shelves about 2 years ago. One morning I woke up and
> it was everywhere not just in health food stores. snipped
>
> Eibhlin
Subject: Re: POMEGRANATES
Posted by: "melinda" mlaf at sbcglobal.net maybard
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:43 pm ((PST))
Subject: [Gleann Abhann] POMEGRANATES
<<< I would love to hear some cool Period projects/reciptes to use
pomegranates in. Any ideas folks?
Widow >>>
Pomegranete rind has been used as a dye since the ancient Egyptians (if not
longer)
Despite the red skin, it does not produce a red dye - at least, not that I
have been able to achieve.
using an alum mordant will produce yellow. Using an Iron mordant will
produce gray. Add a little ammonia to that, and it will get a purplish
tinge to the gray, iirc -it has been a while since I have played with
natural dyes....
the juice squirted on a white napkin will stain it redish/purple, (my
pre-school class had a lot of fun with that) but I haven't played with the
juice on cloth, and I've been told that it is very fugitive, anyways (means
it washes out easy, for those unfamiliar with the term in dying usage)
Melandra
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:18:28 -0500
From: Amy Cooper <amy.s.cooper at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate Molasses
I've made and used Pomegranate Molasses. I find the flavor is a bit
"darker" than straight pomegranate juice. Watch out for the other
brands - I'm pretty sure "Pomwonderful" adds other juices and sugars
to their juice. When I made the pomegranate molasses, I used the
Knudsen brand of juices. Maybe not the cheapest, but they seem to be
the best quality, and have a 100% pomegranate juice.
Ilsebet
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps
<dephelps at embarqmail.com> wrote:
<<< Does anyone have any experience with Pomegranate Molasses? I drink pomegranate juice for a medical condition and the store that stocks the cheapest has discontinued the line. The alternatives "Pomwonderful" and some brands stocked on the health food/organic section and at my local alternative market/health food/organic food store are rather more expensive. I read the label on the bottle of pomegranate molasses I found at an Indian import store and it appeared to be just concentrated pomegranate juice. ?I figured I would cut it with water. Thus my question.
Daniel >>>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:48:08 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate Preservation
<<< Which reminds me- there's a recipe for something called 'Strawbereye'
in... I think it was Curye on Inglische. Anyway, it is basically a
strawberry pudding, but it also calls for pomegranate seeds to be
'strewn abouten'. Oookaaay... but strawberries and pomegranates aren't
in season at the same time, are they? How did they do this?
'Lainie >>>
Hi 'Lainie,
I'm so new on this list that I am skerit to post, but I think I may have
something to add.
I've volunteered to teach at An Tir's Culinary Symposium next November and
took on the task of translating the Wecker cookbook - the first printed
cookbook written by a woman. I've been posting stuff on my LJ but have
such a steep learning curve that I have a lot of reading to do to even
hang with this august crowd here :)
Howsomever, there are two instances of pomegranate preservation I have
found in my small stash of 15th and 16th century materials so far. One is
in the Staindl cookbook which tells how to candy pomegranate rinds and use
them as pomegranate substitute.
The Wecker cookbook has extensive instructions for preserving pomegranates
up to a year. The rinds are slit in an 8 piece star, leaving the insides
intact with the skin attached to the bottom so as not to disturb the
juice. The are soaked in covered deep dish in a warm spot with water a
day and night, drained, refilled and then soak another day and night.
They are then boiled until the skins fall off, which are set aside on a
clean cloth. After this a boiled sugar syrup is made - one pound of
sugar, 5 quarter measures of the previously boiled water (and add more
water if you don't have enough) per 3 pomegranates, with the instructions
to skim the syrup so it remains clear as it boils. The syrup is cooled
and then the pomegranates are added to sit covered in it for a day or two.
When the syrup thickens (not sure if this means get evaporates or is
drawn in by the fruit) you reboil the syrup as above and let the
pomegranates sit in the syrup again. In the third round of syrup making
the pomegranates are boiled in the syrup. Anna says this make the
pomegranate clear so you can see the pips, and that it can be kept a whole
year - and they will stay nicest when kept covered [with liquid] so
fermentation can go to the top. She writes that this preparation is
especially good for the ill with stomach upsets and for headaches.
As soon as I have the time, if you want, I'll post the whole thing on the
LJ with a line by line translation. The recipe is on pages 134-135.
Sounds a bit like pomegranate molasses maybe?
I wonder if all the color leaches into the syrup and this is why the title
says how to make a nice 'white' pomegranate.
Katherine
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:15:51 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate
Here are some pomegranate references from
Rumpolt. Usually a garnish, but also a relish of
pomegranate and sugar. The last one sounds like
fresh pomegranate to me.
Haselh?ner kalt/ gehackte Citronen dar?ber
gethan/ vnd mit Granat?pffel Kern dar?ber
geworffen. - Grouse cold/ chopped citron put
over/ and with pomegranate kernels thrown over.
Citronen klein gehackt/ mit Zucker angemacht/ vnd
mit Granat?pffel Kern bestrewet. - Citron chopped
small/ prepared with sugar/ and sprinkled with
pomegranate seeds.
Granat?pffel von Zucker. - a subtlety, sugar made to look like a pomegranate
Granat Epffel Kern/ fein mit Zucker. - pomegranate kernels/ nicely with sugar
Ein Salat gemacht von Magranden oder
Granat?pffel. - a salad made of pomegranate or
pomegranate - Margaranten Apfel is another word
for pomegranate, this could mean two types,
perhaps sweet or sour pomegranates. Or quite
likely pomegranate in two dialects.
Salat 6. Gr?n Feldt Salat angemacht/ mit
Margeranten Kern bestr?wt/ ist sch?n vnd zierlich.
Green Lamb's lettuce/ sprinkled with pomegranate
seeds is beautiful and delicate.
Salat 25. Salat von Margeranten Epffel Kern/ bestr?w auch mit weissem Zucker.
25. Salad of Pomegranate kernels/ sprinkled with white sugar.
Salat 37. Nim~ Zitron/ hack sie klein/ machs mit
sch?nen lauterm Zucker/ der klein gestossen ist/
ab/ bestr?w es mit Margeranten Kern/ die fein rot
seyn/ so ist es auch zierlich vnd gut.
Take lemon/ cut them small/ mix with beautiful
clear sugar/ that was crushed a little/ sprinkle
with pomegranate kernels/ that are nicely red/
like this it is also delicate and good.
Zugeh?rung 18. Nim~ Margaranten Epfel/ schneidt
sie voneinander/ vnnd klopf die Kern herau?/
bestr?w sie mit weissem Zucker/ so ist es gut vnd
wolgeschmack.
Take Pomegranate/ and cut apart/ and knock the
seeds from it/ sprinkle with white sugar/ like
this it is good and well tasting.
Ranvaig
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:05:39 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate seeds
The fleshy aril is the flavorful part. The seed itself can be eaten,
but doesn't really have any flavor. The dried ones used in Middle
eastern and Indian cooking include the flesh. The Indian ones I have
are -very- hard, and can't be eaten without grinding - lots of
grinding. I've heard there are softer Middle eastern ones, that are
more like raisins with a seed in the middle.
The dried ones are used to add sourness to a dish, much like adding
lemon or verjuice, but they are nearly black and not the beautiful
red jewel of fresh ones.
It's possible and even likely that dried ones were used in period,
but they seem an unlikely garnish. At least they would need to be
soaked or something. I'm sure that when the texts say grain, they
mean the whole aril whether fresh or dry, not just the seed inside.
Ranvaig
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:00:11 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate seeds
So what did they add to a dish?
The 1572 Huloets dictionarie newelye corrected says:
Kernell. Granum, ni. Grain. S. Vt punica grana. The kernelles of a
pomegranate. Les grains d' vne granade. S. Et Granellum. Ang. A litle
kernell.
Pomegranate. Apyrina. plur. Malum punic?, Ma|lum granatum. Pomme de
granade. H.
?The pomegranate rynde whiche couereth it about. Malicorium, Corium
cortexu? punici mali. L'escoree d'vn granad. ye flower. Citinus, Flos
mali satiuae punicae, & Balaustium, siluestris punicae flos. Le fleur
d' vn granadier. the grayne. Acinus, vel semen.
Le grain de la pomme granade. ye little skynne wherein the grayne is
closed. Tunica acini, vel folliculus. La cote du grain. the Kernells.
Acinor? nuclei, Semina, Vinacea. Les pepins. And ye smale skynne that
deuideth the graines in the pomegranate. Cicus, vel cicum, vel ciccum,
Membrana tenuis acinos in malo pu?nico discriminans. H.
-------
I checked the dietary advice offered in 1599 by Henry Buttes.
In Dyets dry dinner consisting of eight seuerall courses, he writes:
Pomegranats.
Choise. SW?ete: ripe: big: with great kernels: whose rinde comes
easily off: the sharpe full of iuyce
Vse. The sw?ete, excite Venus: good for the stomacke, brest, cough:
the sharpe, for hot liuers and agues.
Hurt. The sw?et br?ed wind and heat, naught in feuers: the sharp
offend the teeth and gummes; constrains(?) the brest; naught for old
folkes.
Correcti|on. Eate the kernelles of both together.
Degree. The sw?ete are temperatly hot and moyst: the sower colde, and
somewhat binding.
Season. Age. Constitu|tion. The sw?et in winter, for all: she sharpe
in sommer for youth, and chollerists.
----
I did come across a note indicating Karen Hess thought barberries
were used as a substitute for the pomegranate.
Johnnae
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:08:21 +1300
From: Antonia di Benedetto Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranate seeds
Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<<
< pomegranite seeds make a beautiful garnish >
Okay, but when you do this, what do you mean by "seeds"? Is this the
little bubble of fruit which happens to contain a pip, a dried version
of this, or the pip itself? Part of our discussion, which I don't
think has been resolved yet, is what exactly is the "seed". >>>
The fresh pip including the pulp (ie, one of those red jewel-like units)
is what I'm talking about. I don't think any other form would be very
good for garnishing.
--
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:34:13 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Making verjus
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:
<<< Just sad I can not possibly get fresh pomegranates in March.
Selene >>>
Selene,
I use pomegranates at the end of February...so what I did this past year was
to buy them when they were in season, seed them and freeze the seeds in
airtight bags (used my sealing machine). Worked like a charm!
Kiri
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:48:47 +0000
From: yaini0625 at yahoo.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frozen pomegranate jewels
<<< I have just received a windfall of about two dozen
pomegranates for free (that should take a hunk out of ye
olde feast budget). I was thinking of freezing the
jewels/seeds.
Anyone have any experience with using them after freezing
and thawing?
Cailte >>>
My Mom used to freeze her pomegranates all the time. When she thawed them out she would place them in a colander with a bowl under it to catch any juice. She also froze persimmons.
Aelina
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:27:08 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frozen pomegranate jewels
I purchased several pomegranates last year for an event that comes a couple
of months after they've gone out of season. I popped the seeds out, put them
on a tray on waxed paper and stuck them in the freezer. Once they had
frozen, I put them in seal-a-meal bags without vacuuming out the air. They
worked just fine. By doing them this way they don't freeze together in one
unpleasant lump.
Kiri
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:36:34 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
I just made one of Nola's recipes for pomegranate juice. Brighid's
translation reads:
*"171. Pomegranate juice*
/ZUMO DE GRANADAS/
"You will take the seeds of the pomegranates and crush them in a mortar
in such a way that you do not break the seeds; and strain them through a
clean linen cloth; and put in it the juice of toasted almonds and pine
nuts. and you can cast in a little rosewater; and from this juice you
can make sweet cameline sauce. and if you wish to make it sour, cast in
red wine and vinegar, and all spices, and more cinnamon than the other
spices, and cook it before you strain it."
First of all I went through the process of preparing 10 pomegranates,
decorating the kitchen red but at least I wore rubber gloves! They
yielded 2 c juice after going through the straining business. I ruined
that by adding 2 c water.
Then I made 1/2 c ea almonds and pine nuts ground with 1 c rosewater.
That was too thin to act as a thickener.
My disaster looks like a watery breakfast juice but it is sour! - Don't
need the wine or vinegar to make it worse!
My first question is:
When medieval recipes are too sour for our taste, what is the rule of
thumb for correcting them - sugar, honey, proportions, what?
Then should I boil what I have to death to evaporate a couple of cups of
liquid? - I think this is suppose to be a sauce for fowl so I think I am
looking for something more like gravy. Starting all over again would be
a pain as it takes so much time to extract the little red fruits. . .
Many thanks for any suggestions.
Suey
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:31:52 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
> First of all I went through the process of preparing 10 pomegranates,
There are (at least) two kinds of pomegranates, sweet ones and sour
ones. It sounds like you used sour ones. Does your recipe say which
kind to use?
Ranvaig
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:04:42 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
Thank you all for your suggestions on rectifying Nola's pomegranate
sauce. I like the "health report" Johnna gave on the fruit - jajaja!
I bought the pomegranates in the supermarket yesterday. So as per Sharon
Palmer's reminding me that there are sweet and bitter pomegranates, I
went to my fruit man this morning. He told me that the naked eye cannot
tell the difference. You have to taste them. He did say that the ones
that are less red tend to be sweet. He said he would bring me 10 tomorrow.
At the risk of decorating the kitchen again, I shall try again - the
family says that when I finished extracting the arils (seed sacs)
yesterday it looked like the Inquisition had hit the kitchen!
Today, I added 1 c sugar to yesterday's disaster and gently boiled it
for about an hour, reducing the liquid in half. It looks much better and
tastes yummy! - Probably too sweet for the medieval taste buds -
I don't know if I can go with the bitter version of wine and vinegar but
I tasted Nola's third recipe for mustard which I made last week. A
clothespin was necessary for the nose when preparing it. Now it is
great! I think it is a lot like Dijon although the English say Dijon did
not exist in the Middle Ages.
Suey
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:30:13 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
Not sure you need this but here are some videos on less messy methods to deseed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFUMLxL6IO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReVY5hAmplk&;feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qfQ3_N7S6Y&;NR=1&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3obnlDcFb48&;feature=related
De
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 19:33:34 -0400
From: Aruvqan <aruvqan at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
On 6/28/2012 4:04 PM, Suey wrote:
<<< At the risk of decorating the kitchen again, I shall try again - the
family says that when I finished extracting the arils (seed sacs)
yesterday it looked like the Inquisition had hit the kitchen! >>>
Gently cut the fruit around the equator, and while holding over a mixing
bowl twist apart gently. Once you have 2 hemispheres, sort of gently
remove the arils with a spoon over the bowl. I prefer to snap off the
outer shell a piece at a time and schuck out the arils by hand but some
people don't like playing with their food. As long as you are gentle,
they won't break and spurt juice.
Have you ever thought of buying a bottle of Knudsons 100% pomegranite
juice? straight pom juice, no fillers or additives, and I think not from
concentrate. Saves loads of time.
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:55:18 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rectifying Bitter Medieval Recipes
<<< At the risk of decorating the kitchen again, I shall try again - the
family says that when I finished extracting the arils (seed sacs)
yesterday it looked like the Inquisition had hit the kitchen! >>>
I cut a little slice from each end that just exposes the arils but
doesn't cut into them. Then score the rind from one end to the other
in 3- 4 places, and you can break it apart without cutting. Then
break the arils off one at a time. Not fast, but I usually don't
spill any juice at all.
But for juice I'd be tempted to wash the outside well, cut them in
quarters and put them in a sealed ziplock plastic bag and press the
juice out with a heavy rolling pin.
Ranvaig
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:54:30 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
<<< I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to
make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference
between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any
ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium
of course :)
But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the
molasses.
Ana >>>
Grenade is French for pomegranate. Grenadine was originally pomegranate
juice, sugar and water. These days commercial grenadine is often a mix of
high fructose corn syrup, water, preservatives, dyes and artificial flavors.
Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in
producing grenadine. I would suggest making a thin simple syrup to which
you add pomegranate juice to taste then reduce it slowly to the desired
consistency.
Bear
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:05:25 -0400
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
<<< Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in
producing grenadine. >>>
Pomegranate molasses is an extra-thick pomegranate syrup, and is not the
same as the sugar by-product. The Cortas brand is widely available in
Middle Eastern grocery stores.
Brighid ni Chiarain
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:18:44 -0500
From: Leah Adams <jinxleah at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
I have two incredibly easy pomegranate (simple) syrups (or grenadines)
that I make, one cooked & one not cooked. They both use only two
ingredients. Pomegranate (or grenade, whichever term you are more at
ease with.) and water.
Cooked pomegranate syrup
(Also known as grenadine or pomegranate simple syrup.)
Bring one part pomegranate juice to a simmer.
Add one part sugar.
Cook until sugar has fully dissolved.
You can of course cook it down until it is more like a thick molasses
type concoction. But be careful with it. I've found that pomegranate
juice can burn pretty easily. This syrup will have a more complex
taste to it than the next recipe.
Uncooked pomegranate syrup
Put one part pomegranate juice into a bottle or jar.
Add one part plus a little extra of sugar into the bottle or jar.
Shake until thoroughly combined. (This is a good one for when you just
have to catch up on that favorite show!)
I usually make about four cups of syrup whenever I make it.
Both of these are easily adaptable. You can add more or less sugar
according to your tastes. I tend to put a shot of vodka in mine just
to preserve it. Then use it up in my sodas in about a week, meaning I
had no need for the vodka. I mix about 2 ounces syrup with tonic water
for my soda, then add ice. The tonic water adds a lovely bite to the
soda. It's also great in plain water.
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:25:04 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
This is a nice chicken with pomegranate juice and walnuts. I hope you
like purple chicken! It is a popular contemporary Persian recipe, but I
have found something very similar in Medieval books, with lamb instead
of chicken. I give proportions for a feast and for a family. Enjoy.
*Fesenjan *
(Chicken with walnuts and pomegranate syrup)
Serves 75 or more probably
25 lb. chicken parts, with skin and bones
2 cups vegetable oil, more if needed
20 onions, sliced thin
1 pint garlic cloves, chopped [the local Asian markets sell garlic in
pint containers, I think it is something like 12 ounces. Measure it.]
5 pounds walnuts
8 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice
Salt and pepper to taste
2 small cones piloncillo sugar
2 Tbsp saffron melted in hot water
Pomegranate seeds for garnish, if available [not in March]
[To Serve Four]
* 4 chicken breasts with skin and bones
* 2 Tbsp. vegetable oil, more if needed
* 2 onions, sliced thin
* 4 garlic cloves, chopped
* 150g walnuts
* 1 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice
* Salt and pepper to taste
* 4-6 teaspoons brown sugar
* ? t. saffron melted in hot water
Place chicken pieces in pan, skin side down. Sear quickly until skin is
dark golden brown. Turn over; lower heat, being careful not to burn. Add
onions and garlic. When flesh is lightly colored, turn chicken again.
Remove from pan when it is still underdone, along with most of the
drippings.
In a small amount of drippings continue sauteing onion and garlic. (If
you don't want to saute in drippings, use vegetable oil.) Add walnuts;
cook until they begin to darken and give off a lovely nutty aroma. Add
pomegranate juice, salt and pepper; stir to combine.
Add sugar to taste and return chicken parts to pan. Simmer gently in the
sauce until they are medium rare. Take pan off the fire; add saffron.
Sprinkle pomegranate seeds into sauce, if using, and over chicken. Serve
with saffron rice, if desired.
Loosely adapted from the Claudia Roden version + NARSUN, from THE
DESCRIPTION OF FAMILIAR FOODS
About twice as much of the pomegranate sauce as the Roden version
because I did not think there was enough!
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:15:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Ana Valdes wrote:
<<< I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the
molasses. >>>
There's a major difference between pomegranate syrup and pomegranate molasses.
Pomegranate syrup is made with pomegranate juice and sugar which are cooked just enough to reach a syrupy stage. This can vary depending on how much sugar is used.
So-called pomegranate molasses is pure pomegranate juice which is simmered for a long time until it becomes very thick. I would assume this is done on a rather low fire so there's no burning or scorching, and involves a lot of stirring for the same reasons. There is generally NO sugar involved. It is rather tart. (And it is not really a type of molasses, at least not as i consider molasses to be, which is why i say "so-called").
I've made pomegranate syrup from scratch using purchased pure organic pomegranate juice and cane sugar in equal weights, as in the recipe in the 13th c. anonymous Andalusian cookbook. I put the sugar in a saucepan, stir the juice into the sugar, and when they are mixed as well as can be, i put the pan on a high fire, bring the liquid to a boil, and reduce the fire so that it simmers strongly. Take about 15 minutes at a high simmer to get syrup of the consistency i prefer. Remember to stir occasionally - more stirring as it gets thicker - so it doesn't burn in the bottom of the pan.
I have never tried to make so-called pomegranate "molasses". I have purchased different brands and found them to vary significantly in color, flavor, and consistency, but i don't remember what brand i liked best.
Most Middle Eastern recipes call for the pomegranate "molasses".
If you have Armenians near you, they should known where to get pomegranate "molasses".
Someone sometimes called Urtatim
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:54:32 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Ana Valdes wrote:
<<< The Armenians here are from Turkey and they don't have groceries, weird :( >>>
That's odd.
The Turks make and use pomegranate "molasses". The word for pomegranate in Turkish is "nar", which is the same in Persian. The Ottoman Turks borrowed a lot of Persian and Arabic words. There was a Turkish language purge in the early 20th c. to get rid of all Persian and Arabic words, but many still remain in the language. Pomegranate molasses in Turkish is nar ekshisi (the "sh" is actually an s with a cedilla, but that won't show in e-mail), in Persian it's rab e-nar.
Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 20:32:22 -0400
From: Galefridus Peregrinus <galefridus at optimum.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranates
The Taqwim al-Sihha/Tacuinum Sanitatis lists both sweet and sour pomegranates. The words in both the original Arabic and the Latin are simply pomegranate (ruman/granata) and the adjective for sweet or sour. The illustrations in the Tacuinum are almost identical. All of which doesn't necessarily resolve the question of whether the sweet and sour pomegranates were different varieties or the same variety at different stages of ripeness.
I'll add that I recently purchased a packet of dried pomegranate seeds. To my palate, they taste pretty tart, but possibly that's just me.
-- Galefridus
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 21:41:48 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pomegranates
<<< Does anyone have a suggestion on a simple way to extract the juice and seed from pomegranates? I have three trees in the yard and would like to try them in some period dishes. The fruit has a skin like armor making it hard to collect the juice. I hadn't thought about drying the seeds but that is easily done.
Magnus >>>
Take a look at the instructions here:
http://theshiksa.com/2011/09/06/how-to-seed-a-pomegranate/
Or maybe these brochures will help
http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26390.pdf
http://extension.usu.edu/washington/files/uploads/Health%20and%20Nutrition/Pomegranate%20_2_.pdf
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:58:57 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Pomegranate Tool
On cook shows, I've seen chefs seed a pomegranate by cutting it in
half and hitting the back with a spoon. I guess the gadget keeps the
arils from flying around.
Ranvaig
<<< Has anyone seen one of these or used one?
It'a advertised as being:
Perfect for juicing or a healthy snack, this novel gadget takes the
mess out of seeding pomegranates. Simply place a halved pomegranate
on the grid, cover with the silicone dome, hold the dome securely
against the bowl, and strike it firmly using a wide, heavy spoon to
remove the seeds.
http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-1241645/?om_u=AToTeZ&;om_i=_BSnzuXB826XtjH&ch=eml
Johnnae >>>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:21:01 -0700
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Pomegranate Tool
I wouldn't spend my money on it. It's a unitasker. I just break the
pomegranate apart and use my thumb. Doesn't take that long. If you do it
under water in a bowl it keeps the arils from flying around as well. Also,
grocery stores sell the arils already out of the fruit.
Shoshanah
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 01:25:21 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: "olwentheodd at yahoo.com" <olwentheodd at yahoo.com>,
"sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Pomegranate Tool
At 10:05 PM -0800 12/4/13, olwentheodd at yahoo.com wrote:
<<< Ya. In Denmark the kids i cook with use the wooden spoon or
underwater technique.
On another note, the kids (think punks) have prepared minted peas
which they said they learned through the family. I never could pin
anyone down to how far back.
Olwen >>>
What I do myself is trim off each end so the red is revealed but not
cut into. Sometimes it takes a couple of shallow cuts. Then score
the outer peal with a knife, break it apart into pieces, and break
the arils off from the peel. (I use my fingers but intend to try
hitting the back of the peel with a spoon). Since you don't cut the
arils, there is very little mess.
Ranvaig
From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:
David Friedman
9:27pm Apr 3
There is a period Islamic recipe for pomegranate sawiq, a drink made from ground toasted grains, dried ground pomegranate seeds, sugar, and water.
<the end>