Period pomegranates. Finding pomegranates, pomegranate seeds and pomegranate Juice. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: fruits-msg, fruit-apples-msg, sauces-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, fruit-melons-msg, beverages-msg, fruit-pears-msg.
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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:52:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - frozen pomegranate seeds
> Crystal of the Westermark asked:
> >Help, please. The feast I was planning did not happen. I have two gallon
> >sized ziplocks (TM) of frozen pomegranate seeds. Any suggestions on what
> >I can do with them that would not be expensive?
A bit over a year ago my wife and I did a Catalan feast from the Llibre
de Sent Sovi and Llibre del Coch (14-15th centuries). Recipe 109 in the
latter follows, in our translation:
109 Salsa Camelina
Take two or three pomegranates [albars] and strain them all through a
piece of clean linen. And when they are strained, press them well to
extract the juice well. And afterwards take a bit of toasted bread and
soak it in the aforementioned juice. And afterwards take a good
quantity of ground cinnamon and put it with the bread. And afterwards
grind it well in a mortar. And when it is ground up, temper it up with
good broth and the juice of the aforementioned pomegranates and vinegar
which isn't too strong. And after that it goes on the fire to boil,
stirring all the time, until it is thick, but put in the pot before it
boils a lump of fine sugar. And it's done.
First redaction:
1 C breadcrumbs
1/2 C pomegranate juice
1/2 C beef broth
2 T wine vinegar
1 T cinnamon
1 tsp white sugar
This may be too much breadcrumbs; it looks like it's turning into
Cameline Glue....
Second try:
1/4 cup breadcrumbs
3/4 cup pomegranate juice
1/4 cup beef broth
2 T wine vinegar
1 T cinnamon
1 tsp white sugar
Possibly too thin now (depending on how long you simmer it). The
increased pomegranate makes it nicely tart, at least by Steve's standards....
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:57:52 -0000
From: cnevin at caci.co.uk
Subject: SC - RE: pomegranate molasses
From: Aelfwyn at aol.com <mailto:Aelfwyn at aol.com>
We have been talking about both pomegranate molasses and
pomegranate sauce. How do these compare to grenadine syrup? And what type
of market/specialty store might I find the first 2 in if they are different?
I love pomegranates and this thread has made me very hungry.
- - Aelfwyn
Middle eastern stores sell them.
Sauce and Molasses are good, but nothing beats the real thing, quite aside
from the fact you don't have all the other additives and alternate
consistency (though they dilute well). I'd never tasted a real pomegranate
until I came to London, but I am now hooked. Definitely one of my top 5
favourite fruits. However, one thing I've found with using real pomegranates
for juice is that you generally end up needing twice the number stated in
the redaction. Maybe we just get smaller pomegranates in the UK? <smile>
Which Chicken in Pomegranate Sauce recipe are you using Luveday?
Cordialmente,
Lucretzia
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:57:34 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
Christi Rigby wrote:
> There is no substitute. Pomegranate taste and the hassle of them are very
> hard to substitute. The entire fruit of the pomegranate is in the seeds.
> They are little red seeds inside a casing that has to be removed. You
> should be able to find them in the grocery store in the fruit and veggie
> aisle.
Christi's right- there really is no substitute. Pomegranates taste
like... pomegranates. But there's a bazillion of the little seeds
inside, so if you only need a few...
They are usually about the size of a softball, and have a mottled light
red skin. The blossom end has the little 'chimney' that sticks out, with
lots of tiny pistils inside, rather like a fig (come to think of it, are
they related to figs? does anyone know?). Pick one that feels 'heavy'
and has no brown spots or soft spots. Around here they're seasonal- oh,
November to February. They're best around Christmastime. The groceries
around here usually stock them with the 'weird' fruit- pomelos,
uglifruit, kumquats, starfruit, etc. They've been about $2 each this
year, but the quality has been good.
Getting one open is a trick- there's not slot or tab to start it with. I
usually feel around until I can find one of the obvious segment
divisions, then I smack it on the edge of the counter, kind of like
those chocolate oranges (another of my vices). Wrench it apart- it will
squirt juice everywhere, and IT WILL NOT WASH OUT, so don't wear your
best white dinner jacket. After that, it's just a matter of picking the
seeds out. The seeds look like jewels- they're a brilliant deep red and
have little 'facets'. Your fingers will be stained, and so will your
mouth. But it's worth it. And- don't bother trying to bite the pulp off
and spit the actual seed out- it's not worth it, you'll lose pulp, and
besides that- seeds that size won't hurt you- Granny called them
'roughage'!
Happy hunting!
'Lainie
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:26:57 EST
From: LadyPDC at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
There is a pomegranate farm in California which has a web page, sorry messy
desk and can't seem to find the address right now, where they freeze the
produce which they don't sell in season and sell if privately over the net to
those of us who want the fruit out of season. I have had very good luck with
them and their prices are reasonable.
Constance de LaRose
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:43:46 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seeds
stefan at texas.net writes:
<< This recipe seems to just use the seeds raw. Or is there something else
you are supposed to do first? >>
Just use them raw. They have a very pleasant peppery taste and are not hard
like some seeds.
Ras
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:17:51 -0800 (PST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?rachel=20mccormack?= <rachel_lothian at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Re: SC pomegranate seeds
Dried pomegranate seeds can be bought at shops
selling Indian and Pakistani spices. These, and a lot
of other unusual spices are very often found in these
shops more easily than anywhere else.
Rachel McCormack
Barcelona, Spain
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:32:11 +1100
From: Robyn.Hodgkin at affa.gov.au
Subject: RE: SC - Re: SC pomegranate seeds/syrup
This might be of assistance too if you can't get fresh pomegranates, don't
forget grenadine - pomegranate syrup! You should be able to buy grenadine
quite easily; it is used in many cocktails.
In case you have a glut of pomegranates, I found this recipe for grenadine
while I was wandering:
Yield: 2 cups
2 Pomegranates, medium-large*
2 1/2 c Sugar
1/2 c Water
*When choosing pomegranates, reject any with a brownish area on the
blossom end; such discoloration indicates the beginning of spoilage
and off-flavor.
Cut pomegranates open crosswise and pry out the fleshy crimson seeds
(the red part is actually the pulpy envelope around a seed), using
the tip of a blunt knife. Be careful not to include any fragments of
the cottony white pulp in which the seeds are embedded, as it is
bitter. You should have about two cups of seeds.
Using a food processor or blender, chop the seeds with the sugar and
water just long enough to make a rough puree. Don't attempt to make
a smooth mixture; it's necessary only to break open the pulpy
membranes.
Pour the puree into an earthenware or glass bowl; cover it with a
cloth. Let stand at room temperature for 3 days, stirring it daily.
If the weather is extremely hot, refrigerate the puree after 24 hours.
Line a sieve with dampened, very fine nylon net or two layers of
dampened fine cheesecloth and set it over a saucepan of
stainless-steel or other nonreactive material. Filter the
pomegranate syrup into the pot, allowing it to drip without pressing
on the pulp. This will take a few hours; you can speed matters up by
tying the cheesecloth lining of the sieve into a bag and suspending
it above the pot after the initial flow of juice has slowed down.
When all the juice has dripped through, discard the seedy pulp.
Bring the syrup to a bare simmer (180 F) over medium-low heat, then
reduce the heat to very low and scald the syrup, using a candy/jelly
thermometer and watching to be sure you keep the temperature below
200 F, for 3 minutes.
Skim off any foam, then funnel the syrup into a sterilized, dry
bottle. Let the syrup cool, then cap or cork the bottle (use a new
cork only) and store it in the refrigerator.
To seal the syrup for pantry storage, funnel it into hot, clean
half-pint canning jars. Seal with new two-piece canning lids
according to manufacturer's directions. Following the method for a
boiling-water bath, but keeping the water at simmering temperature
(190 F), process the jars for 15 minutes. Cool, label, and store.
Yield: About 2 cups. Keeps in either the refrigerator or, after
canning, in the pantry for at least a year.
Kiriel
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:06:59 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Pomegranate concentrate (was Re: SC - Re:Juice of Sour Oranges)
And it came to pass on 29 Mar 00,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> I've got this problem with a
> pomegranate concentrate. I don't know if I need to add water or
> not to get back to a pomegranate juice. And they don't say on the
> bottle.
Is this Cortas brand concentrate? Indeed, the bottle lacks this info, but
I found it on the web when I was redacting a pomegranate sauce. If you
take 1/4 cup concentrate and 3/4 cup water, you will have a reasonable
facsimile of pomegranate juice.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:43:34 -0500
From: grizly at mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Re: Pomegranate concentrate (was Re: SC - Re:Juice of Sour Oranges)
<<<<<Actually, the stuff I am referring to has just enough sugar to take away the bitterness of the pomegranate. It is not syrupy-sweet. Maybe that's still too sweet...I don't know. Just thought I'd deliver the info.
Balthazar of Blackmoor>>>>>>
Texts refer to sweet and sour pomegranates, so it would depend on what you were trying to use. BTW, if you add the pomegranate concentrated 'molasses' to some water, apple juice and honey, you can ferment out one da*ned fine melomel. Pomegranate wine is referenced by Pliny the Elder as well as cargo manifests from 14th century Naples. I have discovered no extant recipes or infredient lists for dame, so we came up with this mixture as an approximation of what 'could be'. The straight pomegrante and honey (with water to dilute) turned out a wine very bitter, with a somewhat bitter aftertaste, giving it the overall impression of bitter. That pomegranate bitter that you get in little squirts when you eat the seeds will get REALLY concentrated when you make a wine with them.
YMMV, but when you use a case of 32 fesh pomegranates and squeeze the little buggers for juice, you will get in the neighborhood of one gallon of fresh, clear juice. It was an adventure relished, but not wanted for repeat. We found the bottled juice and molasses work just as well for this application.
niccolo difrancesco
frementer of nigh anything that won't jump out of the brewpot :o)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:46:04 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Pomegranate seed
harper at idt.net writes:
<< How does one use them? As is? >>
Yes, as is. As a spice. I usually grind mine and sprinkle over things
<<Or can they be reconstituted, >>
They could possibly be soaked for a few hours. I have always used them ground.
<<and how close are they to fresh seeds? >>
Their flavor is more concentrated than fresh ones. A spicy tangy sort of
flavor. It is hard to describe.
Ras
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:07:11 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
dekmister at juno.com writes:
<< Do you know how to dry the seeds for future use? We have 4 good
sized Pomegranate bushes in our yard. It would be nice not to have so
many of the fruits go to waste. Thanks! >>
There are 3 methods I have used with more or less success.
1) Remove the seeds from the pomegranate and using a sieve press as much of
the pulp from them as possible. Rinse. And repeat as necessary. Spread on a
clean tray and leave in a warm dry place until thoroughly dried. This is the
preferred method for me.
2) Leave the entire fruit in a warm dry place until it hardens and dries.
Simply crack the rind and use the seeds.
3) Place the seeds on a tray and put them in your oven until thoroughly
dried. The pilot light in a gas oven will provide the heat for the drying
process.
Methods 2 and 3 yields the additional benefit of being able to make
pomegranate liquid from the seeds when they are soaked in water but neither
of these methods produce consistently good results, IMO.
Ras
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 03:21:01 EDT
From: CBlackwill at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
allilyn at juno.com writes:
> Since you have so many, just for the sake of experimentation, could you
> oil one of them with olive oil, then use wax or parafin on another, and
> see how they keep? I'd really like to know how they were transported and
> stored. Enough English and German recipes call for the seeds that the
> merchants had a way to move them around that may have been more
> protective than just filling baskets or sacks.
I think the seeds would probably keep very well after drying (Ras?), and were
probably shipped in this manner, rather than as whole fruit. If your
question is in regards to the whole fruit (which it seems to be) I know that
a good number of craft stores here in California offer them complete and
dried as elements for dried flower arrangements and the like. There doesn't
appear to be any holes or openings in them which would indicate that the
seeds had been removed, either. The "shells" are rather woody after
drying,(very much like a bottle gourd) though I don't know the actual process
used. Has anyone who keeps or grows pomegranates ever noticed them to rot
quickly? Do the shells remain intact? I am not familiar with the shelf life
of a pomegranate, but it seems that if the seeds were the most valued part of
the fruit, then perhaps they did not ship the whole fruit. Does anyone have
reference for whole pomegranates on any ship manifests or caravan lists?
Balthazar of Blackmoor
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:34:21 -0500
From: Deacon C Swepston <dekmister at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
<<Has anyone who keeps or grows pomegranates ever noticed them to rot
quickly? Do the shells remain intact?>>
Balthazar -
The ground under/around our pomegranate bushes are still littered
with the remains of last years crop and a few still clung to the branches
until they leafed out this spring. Generally speaking, most every pod
burst open as it dried on the bush. We've only been in this house just a
couple months over a year, so I've only had one season to observe the
pomegranates. The fruit was wonderful fresh. Much more sharp/tart than
the store bought variety and these aren't red. They're more
yellowish/orangish.
Melusine
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:30:46 -0500
From: "Michael Newton" <melcnewt at netins.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pomegranate juice
Being stuck here in the wilds of NE Iowa, I went searching on the Internet
for Pomegranate sites (I want to have Caradac's spiced pomegranate syrup
drink at my demo this August)
the best one I found (price wise) is:
www.pomegranateconnection.com
they have fresh pomegranates (in season), juice, nectar,vinegars, syrup and
jellies, as well as non-edible pomegranate products.
Check it out-you might find something you like.
Beatrix
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 12:35:21 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know anything about this particular
> variety? I have verified in a web search that there are
> pomegranates so pale as to be called white, but I don't know how
> they compare to the red ones.
>
> Is there a fruit maven in the house?
Will a research maven do? UC Davis has a leaflet on Growing Pomegranates in
California <http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/pomeg3.html>; that mentions in
passing:
"Varieties:
Because of the wide fruit variation arising form seedlings, many pomegranate
varieties have been selected and grown from cuttings through the centuries.
The pink or red-flowered type includes most of the common and all the desirable
and commercial varieties of pomegranates. The trees are deciduous in the interior valleys and semideciduous along the coast. The fruit is round oblate or obovate in form with rind varying from thick to thin. Color of the outside and inside varies form off-white to purplish or bright crimson. The seed may vary in size and hardness, some varieties seeming to be "seedless.,"others being almost
inedible because of large, hard seed. In general, varieties having whitish or pinkish fruit are usually sweeter than the dark crimson varieties."
None of them seem to be widely commercially available, but at least they do
exist.
Selene
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:16:10 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
harper at idt.net writes:
<< Does anyone on the list know anything about this particular
variety? I have verified in a web search that there are
pomegranates so pale as to be called white, but I don't know how
they compare to the red ones.
Is there a fruit maven in the house?
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain >>
Not a fruit maven but.....
On my trip to Wales, it seemed as if even the tiniest grocewr had
pomegranates. All of these popegranates were a very pale color with no red in
the skin color at all. Being adventurous and never having seen these in my
little part of America, I bought one. The flavor very sweet, totally unlike
the red pomegranate which tends toward the sourish side. I would say that
these were definitely what could be called 'white' pomegranates.
Ras
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:18:21 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
And it came to pass on 10 Dec 00, , that LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> The flavor very sweet, totally unlike
> the red pomegranate which tends toward the sourish side. I would say that
> these were definitely what could be called 'white' pomegranates.
Thank you. It's very helpful to have a first-hand account of what
they're like.
From what I've read, the red pomegranates that are sold in U.S.
markets are of varieties that are considered sweet. The sour
cultivars are reserved for making pomegranate syrup and other
such products. If what you ate was sweeter than a red
pomegranate, then that tells me a lot about white pomegranates.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:53:11 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: Re: SC - White pomegranates?
And it came to pass on 10 Dec 00, , that grizly at mindspring.com wrote:
> A couple of recipes in The Original Meiterranean Cuisine and
> another one I cannot put a name to right now call for botha sweet
> and sour pomegranates. We may have hit upon the two varieties
> Mentioned.
>
> niccolo
I don't know. Period sources actually refer to three kinds of
pomegranates: sweet, sour, and sweet-sour ("agradulces"). The
_Obra de Agricultura_ has a chapter on pomegranates, but says
nothing about differences in color, only that they are classified by
flavor.