bread-msg – 12/16/07
Medieval breads and grains. Recipes. Flour bleaching. Rising agents. Bread for feasts.
NOTE: See also these files: breadmaking-msg, BNYeast-art, flour-msg, yeasts-msg, bread-stamps-msg, bread-stuffed-msg, brd-mk-flat-msg, brd-mk-sour-msg, fried-breads-msg, brd-manchets-msg, leavening-msg, trenchers-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: bloch at thor.ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch)
Date: 29 Jun 90 00:15:29 GMT
DEW%PSUECLC.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Baron Dur) writeth:
>I ran an experiment this weekend! You can bake bread in a wok! I used a
>standard bread recipie, a wok, and a pizza screen. I put the dough on the
>screen in the wok, covered it, and baked for 40 minutes. [puns omitted]
I believe Cariadoc mentioned, perhaps a month past, a dish called
"rampart-bread", "muqawwara" in the original Arabic. I have made this
dish at two or three Wars with reasonable success. In brief:
Make a yeast-leavened bread-dough, most of the liquid being eggyolks.
Let it rise. Forming it into a disk shape (say, a foot across and a
handsbreadth thick), FRY it on both sides in a large frying-pan with
butter. Then take it out, cut out the middle at a 45-degree angle
(not breaking the bottom), crumble the stuff you cut out, mix the
breadcrumbs with chopped almonds and pistachios, and sprinkle it back
into the cavity in alternating layers with melted butter, honey,
sugar, and a sprinkle of rosewater.
I was surprised that the bread cooked through without burning on the
outside. I rested the pan directly on the coals left over from
breakfast; if you prefer a softer crust, you might put it a few inches
above the fire. A more detailed description, with quantities and (my
translation of) the original recipe, may appear in the Winter T.I.
--
Stephen Bloch
Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
>sca>Caid>Calafia>St.Artemas
bloch at cs.ucsd.edu
From: crf at pine.circa.ufl.EDU (FEINSTEIN)
Date: 20 Mar 91 22:33:00 GMT
BREAD: If you want "real" ale barm, talk to a homebrewer! No doubt a few
dregs could be reserved. :-) As both a brewer and a cook, however, I have to
offer a caution: these days, yeasts are pure strains, not the wild mix which
the medievals would have used. Thus, any brew dregs wouldn't work very well or
very quickly. As an alternative, you might want to try my favorite trick:
substitute ale for some or all of the water in your bread recipe! Admittedly,
it's not the "real thing", but it surely does work better, and it also tastes
much more like the "real thing" than if you used ale dregs! Frankly, it's
produced the best, and probably the most accurate-tasting, results I've
obtained. Because when I've used real ale barm, I couldn't taste the ale and
the bread didn't have such a good web. When substituting ale for water, the
bread looks good, tastes of the ale, and smells and tastes WONDERFUL!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)
Subject: Re: Medieval cooks didnt make bread
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 16:41:30 GMT
>>In London, there were *two* guilds of bakers, the Brown Bakers and the White
>>Bakers. (One baked only brown bread, the other only white bread.)
>>
>> Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com]
>Interesting indeed! Where did you find this? And were both
>guilds subject to the same Assize of Loaves? (or is it Assize of
>Bread?)
>Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)
>Barony of Namron, Kingdom of Ansteorra
Old Marian commenting here:
(major source: C Anne Wilson, "Food and Drink in Britain" - at least, I
think that's the title - my much-used paperback lost its cover a few
years ago! Items in square brackets [] are my own comments.)
Medieval bread was not just divided into white and brown - there were
several gradations, and since the same names were not used in all places,
there is some confusion about where each kind of bread was placed in the
spectrum from whitest to brownest. However, quoting from Wilson:
"The best white wheaten bread, made of the finest flour which had been two
or three times sieved through woollen and linen bolting cloths, was in
the Middle Ages called wastel bread (from the Norman French GASTEL or
cake) or pandemain (probably originally from PANIS DOMINI, the
sacramental bread, because that was made of the most delicate flour
obtainable.... Cocket, another fine white bread, but a slightly less
expensive one, was produced until about the beginning of the 16th
centruy. But before that time the name manchet had begun to be applied
to white bread of the finest quality. Manchets were made up as rather
small loaves: in Elizabeth I's reign they were supposed to weigh 'eight
ounces into the oven, and six ounces out', and forty were to be made out
of the flour bolted from one bushel of corn [i.e., wheat]. Bread
described as being 'of whole wheat' was of wheat flour more coarsely
sieved than that used for wastel or cocket; while a still coarser and
more branny wheat bread was made under the name of 'bis' or 'treet'."
Wilson says all these breads were taken into account in the Assize of
Bread, which was in operation (with many amendments) from 1267 (our
earliest extant version) through 1815. There may be earlier versions no
longer extant; it is said to date back to King John (ca 1200). In large
towns there were variants of the Assize to cover local variations in bread.
"In London the white bakers and the brown or TORTE bakers for a long time
had separate guilds. The 'White Book' of the city of London laid down
'that a tourte baker shall not have a bolter nor make white bread'. His
brown bread was to include all the husks and bran in the meal, just as it
came from the mill. But he was permitted to bake the dough which people
brought to him ready made up [a function bakers served for people who
made their own dough, but did not have their own ovens], and to make
horsebread of peas and beans. In Ipswich, on the other hand, the bakers
who baked the fine white loaves...were also allowed to make treet bread
from the leavings, after they had sieved their meal and removed the
whitest and finest flour....
The same farthing could buy you a given amount of finest white wastel
loaf, or twice as much brown or treet loaf. It bought you a loaf of
cocket a little larger than the finest white wastel or a wholewheat loaf
weighing half again as much as the cocket or a loaf of "other cereals"
weighing twice as much as the cocket. However, the actual amount of
bread you got for that farthing varied from Assize to Assize; the object
was to keep the price of bread steady, and the weight of bread you got
for your farthing varied according to the success of harvests and other
economic factors.
"The rougher breads of servants and laborourers and their families were
made of of maslin [mixed rye and wheat] or the local grain: rye in
Norfold, barley in northwest England, lowland Scotland, parts of Wales
and Cornwall, oats in upland Wales and the Pennines and the Scottish
highlands...." [So what kind of dark bread you ate depended on where you
lived as well as your social status. The reason for these regional
variations was that wheat demands a longer growing season and better soil
than were present in the upland and rocky areas. And remember, these
variations were all just for Britain, which all together is only about
half the size of the state of California. Imagine the variations you get
when you're looking at the whole of Europe. This is why there is no ONE
"Medieval Bread"!]
As for the combining of the two London guilds: According to Wilson, in
1304 there where 32 brown and 21 white bakers. In 1574 there were 36
brown and 62 white bakers. They joined in the 17th century, and the
separate guild of brown bakers disappeared.
[However, it should be noted that lots of craft guilds amalgamated as time
went on, probably to have more clout as one large than as several small
guilds. In the 16th C you start seeing combined guilds of "Carpenters
and Joiners" or "Masons and Tilers" or "Weavers and Dyers" or "Cooks and
Innkeepers." So joining the brown and white bakers may have reflected
the temper of the times as much as the demand for brown bread in London.]
--Old Marian
(Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, East Kingdom (marian at world.std.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: bread (was Re: meadmaking help.....)
Organization: NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:10:41 GMT
Elizabeth David, in her book "English Bread and Yeast Cookery", has a
chapter titled "Manchets and Mayn and Payndemayn", which includes the
recipe posted about two messages back from this, plus one from Gervase
Markham, "The English Hus-wife", 1615, and a modern version. (Mostly
scaled down, since the posted recipe wanted half a bushel of flour and
David notes that a bushel was 56 to 60 lb, which makes somewhat more
bread than many of us are interested in). Scattered throughout the
book are information about how bread was cut in c. 1508 (from "the
Boke of Kervynge) and a number of period and near-period recipes
(Kendal Oatcakes from 1698, for example).
If you want to know everything to know about English bread and yeast
cookery, buy this book. It's really excellent--it tells you
everything from which stone to use in your mill onward. It's in print
in a US version and is ISBN 0-9643600-0-4 (the original, British
edition has a different ISBN). Even if you never bake a single thing
from it, you'll enjoy reading it and you'll learn a lot from it.
This book finally explained to me why English supermarket white bread
is so dreadful (even worse than Wonder Bread)--it contains, quite
legally, a great deal more water than does its US counterpart.
--
Mary Shafer
SR-71 Chief Engineer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:16:25 GMT
Kevin Riley <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
>This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
>recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
>flat piece of metal). If anyone can tell me what might have been used
>to substitute for the baking soda...
I don't know if it is period, but Spirits of Hartshorn (aka Baker's
Ammonia and ammonium carbonate) was (and still is) used in northern
Europe in cookies before patent baking sodas became popular in the
1800s. However, these make very crisp cookies, which isn't what
anyone would want in bannocks.
However, I'd suspect, based on Elizabeth David and the author of "In A
Scots Kitchen", that bannocks originally weren't raised at all but
were more like hoecakes or other unleavened biscuit. It's unlikely
that they'd be yeast-risen, like a sourdough, because oats have no
gluten at all to trap the CO2 produced by yeast.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:37:02 GMT
rosalyn rice <rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>In article <3252CE4E.1513 at radix.net>, Kevin Riley <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
>>TJorDan001 wrote:
>
>>This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
>>recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
>>flat piece of metal). If anyone can tell me what might have been used
>>to substitute for the baking soda...
>
> I just got a tanatalizing bit of information about what might
>have been a period substitute for baking soda - baking soda.
>
> Acipius suggests cooking green vegetables with "Nitrum" so that they
>keep their color. Nitrum is a form of natural soda. It is possible that
>such a thing could have been used as a leavening agent, though I
>seriously doubt it. It doesn't appear as an ingredient in any medieval
>recipes, and commercial baking sodas/powders appear to be a 19th c.
>invention. (All this from Harold McGee "On Food and Cooking")
Commercial, or "patent", baking powders are a mixture of sodium
bicarbonate (baking soda) and cream of tartar. Cream of tartar forms
deposits on the outside of wine barrels, where it can be scraped off.
Comprehensive cookbooks even provide formula for substitution.
Nitrum, to keep vegetables green, sounds like baking soda. It's well
known that a pinch of baking soda will keep vegetable a vivid,
unnatural green (while destroying the vitamin content, especially
vitamine C). It also gives the vegetables a chemical taste
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Date: 4 Oct 1996 08:06:30 GMT
yehudahben at aol.com (YehudahBen) wrote:
> From Lady Agnes Is it possible that they used Sourdough at least for
> some of their baking ?
Yes. Pretty clearly sourdough was used in period. Charles Perry, who knows
quite a lot about medieval Islamic cooking, believes that it is what the
recipes mean when they talk about leavening.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: troy at maestro.com (Philip W. Troy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:01:02 -0400
Organization: Toad Computers
rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) wrote:
> Kevin Riley <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
> >TJorDan001 wrote:
> >This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
> >recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
> >flat piece of metal). If anyone can tell me what might have been used
> >to substitute for the baking soda...
>
> I just got a tanatalizing bit of information about what might
> have been a period substitute for baking soda - baking soda.
>
> Acipius suggests cooking green vegetables with "Nitrum" so that they
> keep their color. Nitrum is a form of natural soda. It is possible that
> such a thing could have been used as a leavening agent, though I
> seriously doubt it. It doesn't appear as an ingredient in any medieval
> recipes, and commercial baking sodas/powders appear to be a 19th c.
> invention. (All this from Harold McGee "On Food and Cooking")
>
> Lothar
It's always been my impression, probably from something in the
Flowers/Rosenbaum translation of Apicius, that the Roman cooking soda was
sodium carbonate, a.k.a. Washing Soda. Sodium Bicarbonate does the same
thing, from a culinary standpoint, producing a bright green in vegetables
no matter how badly they're overcooked by modern standards. Since they
would have been cooked nearly to a puree by Roman cooks, this would have
been an issue.
As regards the use of eggs and/or soda in bannocks, to render them
toothworthy, I believe the first thing used to lighten and tenderize them
would have been fat of some kind. Modern oatcake recipes generally call
for some kind of fat, either butter or lard, to be rubbed in, as in a pie
crust recipe. They are, of course, rolled pretty thin, and have a
cookie-like texture.
The problem with using either eggs or fat is that they tend to shorten the
shelf-life, a great inconvenience to soldiers on the march. Probably they
would have stuck to the earliest forms of the sgian (scone) which would
have been a crisp, toasted, oatmeal-and-water pancake. Otherwise, there's
always hard-tack or biscuit, which is the equivalent of Melba toast, more
or less. A regular yeast bread, sliced and toasted till perfectly dry,
hence the term bis-cuit, or twice cooked. Sailors ate a form of it too.
Of course, good bread would have been available when sacking a town,
sometimes...
Gideanus Tacitus Adamantius
From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Camp Bread, In period
Date: 9 Oct 1996 20:57:22 -0400
>There is a new edition of the Ed Wood book on ancient sourdough
>breadmaking techniques out. I'm not at work so I don't even know the EXACT
>title, but I will post info tonight or tomorrow. He points out that
>sourdough culture was THE method for leavening up until very recently.
>It's a really good read and has lots of recipes.
Here is the book that MtheU wrote about:
Wood, Ed, 1926-
World sourdoughs from antiquity / Ed Wood. -- [Rev. ed.]. -- Berkeley,
Calif. : Ten Speed Press, 1996.
ISBN 0898158435
$16.95 per Books in Print.
Huette
(pat at lalaw.lib.ca.us)
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14th Century Bread
Date: 10 Feb 1997 16:11:46 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Morgan E. Smith <mesmith at freenet.calgary.ab.ca> wrote:
>Until this century, the majority of bread was made with sour dough
>cultures, not the types of commercial yeasts we have today. ...
Well, that's half right. Commercial "cake" yeast is a
twentieth-century invention, and commercially available
granulated dried yeast is probably not much older. But it's not
the case that all period yeasts were of the sourdough type that
had to be kept wet in a crock. The stuff sporulates, after all,
and under adverse conditions goes into offline mode till better
times come back. One of the ways to keep yeast between uses was
to dip a twiggy branch or bush into the yeast froth and allow it
to dry. To begin a new batch of ale, you'd swish the branch
through the starting liquid and infect it with yeast spores, who
would then wake up, cry "Chow's on!" and get to work. A bush hung
up to dry over the alehouse door was a signal that the hostess
had just finished brewing. In the same way, kneading troughs used
week after week for bread would become impregnated with the spores,
and you had only to pour in the liquid and work the flour in to get
it enough yeast to get it to rise nicely, leaving a new crop of spores
in the trough in the process. (Cf. Dorothy Hartley's _Food in
England._)
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at uclink
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14th Century Bread
Date: 11 Feb 1997 13:12:29 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
dvick at crl.com (Donald E. Vick) wrote:
>In article <32fbc2c3.3925262 at news.avalon.nf.ca>,
>Barbara <bjluby at avalon.nf.ca> wrote:
>>I, too, am curious about the ingredients used in late
>>14th century (English) bread. Would the people of
>>this period have had access to salt for bread-making?
>>
>>Can bread be made without salt? without yeast?
>
> From my experience, bread can be made without either of these. It
>will not be as good a texture, and in the case of omitting the yeast,
>it will take several times as long to rise. This comes of having to
>wait for natural yeasts in the air to invade your dough, rather than
>artificially introducing yeasts.
>Hugh the Barefoot
Good Gentles,
It's true that period recipes are not as thick on the ground as other
types of recipes. It was such a basic part of everyday life, at first,
and then people began baking for a living (and who would willingly part
with their professional secrets?).
Some recipes call for adding ale barm as leavening (which, technically,
probably produced a *rise* after a long period. The lees probably have
more live organism content. Or so I have been corrected by a Master
Brewer. Perhaps period ale yeast was acting differently---I believe
Guiness' Brewery's strain may be the only continuing strain from any
where near our period into the present) But I digress.
Souring bread dough need not take place in the dough itself. My favorite
recipe is from Colonial America, in a cookbook obtained from French
Azilum, which supplies the steps for a starter so soured that the bread
makes you pucker. Even so, souring agents have a rise and fall
taste cycle, and so at different parts of their life they may be
relatively "normal" tasting to the average modern bread eater.
The method (off the top of my head) goes like this:
Mix flour, a little sugar or honey and water and a little milk(because
you want the milk-type yeast, which produces the souring agents) to form
a batter the consistency of *pancake* batter, to make 2 pints (approx).
Put this in a jug that holds about 2 qts. Put the jug, loosley covered,
into a pot with 2-3 inches of lukewarm water (stockpot size will do).
Cover and let stand overnight in a warm place. In the morning you should
have a foamy mass that is an active yeast culture (If not, then just let
the jug stand on the counter until it begins to foam. This could take
an extra day if the climate won't cooperate!). Use this to make bread in
the normal fashion, except: use half the mixture for your bread
leavening, and put the rest back for tomorrow's bread, with more flour
and liquids/sugars to bring it up to 2 pints. This will prodice enough
leavening for 2 one lb. loaves. They do rise a little slower, and
slightly oddly(retaining the squareness of the pan, for instance, instead
or rounding like you would be used to in a modern loaf).
My Husband loves this bread. Can't keep it in the house. I make a normal
milk loaf with this leavening. OTOH, my kids hate it. It isn't
wonderbread!
I understand that period white flour was the consistency of modern
biscuit flour. However, the masses would have made bread out of anything:
Barley flour (I broke a mill on that one!), ground peas and beans
(pulse), oatmeal, *whole* wheat or rye, or any combination of the above.
Manchet bread recipes ARE available from period sources. i suppose it was
considered sufficiently high-class to retain these recipes.
Hope that helps.
Aoife
From: willow at dowco.com
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:07:02 -0700
Subject: SC - Leavening for Breads and Cakes
Dearest Lor Mandrigal of Mu:
Joy, rapture, huzza's - finally there is something I know a little
about! I can finally impart some knowledge to someone else, since I
have been soaking up learned discourses for the last few weeks, much
like a sponge.
There are a couple of ways that were used to make breads without the
introduction of processed yeast. One is the use of a potato starter. I
must admit, I don't know the details of this one, but I know where I can
find them, so will post tomorrow.
Yeast left from brewing, either ale or wine, was also used, at least in
the historical books I have on English, Scot, Irish and Welsh baking in
the period from the 11th to 16th century. I have no reason to think
that the same procedure wasn't used in the rest of the world. I don't
think that I would like to bake with the lees of brewing, though. But
again, maybe that is only my taste.
A sponge was also made and left to sit out for a day or two (much like
sourdough) to collect wild yeasts. It works well, but again, it is much
like sourdough.
The French did - and still do - use something called a levain. It is a
pc of dough kept from the last batch of bread and used to introduce
yeast into another batch of dough. Mind you, it takes 3 days to make a
loaf of bread. 1 day to culture the levain; one day to make the sponge
and then, the third day to bake the bread. But what heavenly, crusty
bread it is. Since I have learned to bake it, I always have levain
handy. It will keep in the refrigerator for at least 2 weeks (the
longest I have kept it), but it must come to room temperature before
using.
Enough for now. I remain,
Brigid Morgan ap Crawford of Shrewsbury
From: willow at dowco.com
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:53:26 -0700
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Hello to all
Hail Charles:
I too am interested in bread baking in the old manner, though I seem to
have specialized in the English, Scotch, Irish branches of the craft,
with some French and Italian thrown in for good measure. I have had a
hard time translating (Middle and Olde English seems like a foriegn
language sometimes!) as well as adapting the recipes. Breaking down the
flower from a bushel or peck to a manageable level is difficult at the
best of times. Some -or I might say most - 12th century recipes use the
left-overs from ale making to leven bread, though that practice seemed
to have lessened with the advent of manchet and white flours.
I think I have finally mastered trenchers - they have to be made with
whole meal flour and left to harden for four days before using. I have
tried to use them fresh with disasterous results and much leaking of the
juices from vegs and meat. I am having an Elizabethan feast for a few
friends on the Queen's birthday, so I will have a chance to test my
theories.
I would delight in exchanging views and recipes with you, either through
SCA or privately. I am very new to SCA - a half-dozen weeks, maybe, but
I have always had an abiding interest in all things ancient and that
includes food and -mostly - breads and cakes, which were usually nearly
the same, less yeast.
Yours in service to the dream, I remain
Lady Bridgid Morgan ap Crawford of Shrewsbury
willow at dowco.com
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:46:54 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Scottish Recipes
Sue Wensel wrote:
> The most difficult thing about a quintessentially Scottish feast is the amount
> of baking soda called for in everything we think is Scottish. Unfortunately,
> to the best of my knowledge, baking soda and baking powder aren't period
> (please, somebody tell me I'm wrong!!)
Interestingly enough, I have read that the standard period substitute
for baking soda was generally: nothing. The theory goes that most baked
goods contained some kind of fat for shortening, and the farmwives, or
whoever did the baking, had very "light" hands. The trick was to work a
dough JUST enough to get it to hold together, and no more. So no excess
gluten development. In addition, most European bakers in period used a
softer wheat flour than we are used to - both because of the extent to
which the meal was processed, but also because of the variety of wheat
used. So, breads were probably considerably heavier than we are used to,
but not as tough as we might expect them to be under the circumstances.
Almost as interesting is the fact that the Romans used what we now call
washing soda for cooking, but not for baking.
Adamantius
From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:20:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Greetings
Re Yeast in period,
May I refer one and all to two books:
English bread and yeast cookery : Elizabeth David
Food in England : Huxley (long oout of print, but now available again in a
vastly overpriced edition from Little Brown)
Both books spend a lot of time on yeast in english cookery.
Aldreada of the lakes
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:32:37 EDT
Subject: Re: SC - Leavening for Breads and Cakes
On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:06:15 -0700 dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
writes:
>As I recall there was a National Geographic or some such
>that talked about the Egyptian beer and bread process,
>and in fact re-created bread, baked in something that look
>a lot like a clay flower pot, these were large loafs
>I think 5 or 8 pounds, my memory is vague,
>The people there all ate the bread, chewy and good.
>
>Susan
The article was "Bake Like an Egyptian" in Modern Maturity, Sept./Oct.
1996. The author was Ed Wood, who raises wild sourdough cultures on his
Idaho ranch and is the author of _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_, Ten
Speed Press, 1996. He and archaeologist Mark Lehner, working with the
National Geographic Society, recreated how the ancient Egyptians baked
bread. Lehner discovered the ruins of two bakery rooms dating to around
2500 B.C. near the Giza pyramids.
There's a recipe for Pita Bread and suggestions on how to make your own
sourdough starter. He puts 1 C. bread flour and 1 C. room temp.
water--probably a good idea to use distilled water, or something that
would not have all the fluorides, et al, that come out of our taps--in a
medium bowl. Cover with cheesecloth to keep out 'visitors' he says.
Weather should be 70 degrees at least. Not a problem in Trimaris. ;-)
Every 12 hours he feeds his starter 1 C. bread flour and 3/4 C. room temp
water. Stir several times between feedings. Repeat process for 3-5 days
or until a layer of foam forms, 1" thick. The starter should be uniform
in appearance with no evidence of mold and should have a pleasing odor.
Otherwise, throw it all out and start over in a different part of the
yard.
Allison
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:25:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - New subscriber
> I am now looking for references about leavening for breads and cakes during
> our Period.
Run, do not walk, and acquire Elizabeth David's book on bread cookery.
Tibor
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:19:17 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - lutefish
gypsy1 wrote:
Lefse is an unleavened pancake made from a soft dough, rather than from
a batter. Depending on what grain or other starch they are made from
(nowadays they are sometimes made from potatoes, which makes them more
properly lompe rather than lefse) they are either eaten fresh, and quite
flexible they are, too, or dried to a matzoh-like consistency, and then
reconstituted by wrapping in a damp towel for a couple of hours before
eating (HINT, HINT: are you getting this, Joshua?)
> Ok...but what's Flex Mazoh???
> Rita the Ignorant 8-) (=large goofy grin)
>
> On Thu, 1 May 1997, david friedman wrote:
>
> > At 4:47 PM -0500 5/1/97, Mark Harris wrote:
> >
> > >What's "lefsa"?
> >
> > Flex Mazoh. Eaten with butter and sugar.
> >
> > David/Cariadoc
Also eaten with butter and cloudberry or lingonberry jam. Some eat them
with butter and cranberry sauce, in a pinch.
Adamantius
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:10:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 6-May-97 Re: SC - Mushrooms!
- -Reply by LYN M PARKINSON at juno.com
> Some of my German recipes call for 'hartshorn' as an ingredient. Do we
> have any animal chemists on the list to know if deer antlers contain
> cream of tartar or something like baking powder or soda? If so, it may
> be a leavening in period.
Nope, they contain ammonia, which was used as a rising agent in period.
toodles, margaret
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply
> Some of my German recipes call for 'hartshorn' as an ingredient. Do we
> have any animal chemists on the list to know if deer antlers contain
> cream of tartar or something like baking powder or soda? If so, it may
> be a leavening in period.
Nope, they contain ammonia, which was used as a rising agent in period.
I'm not sure that this is right. It was discussed (some years ago) on
the rec.food.historic list. I found a bunch of the relevant articles
with http://www.dejanews.com/ searching that newsgroup for "ammonia".
Hartshorn is a mixture of ammonimum bi-carbonate and ammonimum
carbonate, and is still used in Europe today. Cream of Tartar is
tartaric acid, and baking powders and sodas are primarily sodium
bi-carbonate.
The physical action of ammonium carbonate when it becomes CO2 and
ammonia is slightly different, and I gather the textures are noticably
different to the connoiseur. Hartshorn is also volatile, and spoils, and
there appear to be "chemistry issues" when it is mixed into sour foods.
Some of the posters thought that baking powder and soda could be used as a
substitute, but would give a soapy flavor. Others thought that hartshorn
gave an ammoniacal flavor. I dunno.
Tibor
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:23:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - butter
<< Lord Ras, is it possible that the sources you have been looking at are
primarily just for the upper class and thus would miss the use of butter by
other classes in/on food?
Yes, this is not only possible but accurate. Since SCA personas are "noble"
theoretically I tend to avoid/ignore sources that do not pertain to that
class.
<<I remember some arguments in previous years on whether "honey butter" was
period at all. If even "herb butter" and butter were not period, what was
eaten on bread? Anything? >>
It is my "belief" that olive oil was used as a bread spread when anything was
used at all. My research indicates that the majority of time bread was not
eaten as is but rather was used as sops or dipped into the liquid portions
of meals or consumed dry without additional additives. The "period" style
bread recipes that I have personally redacted tend to be rather heavy in
texture and are not unpalatible when eaten by theirselves.
This is really rather interesting and I would be grateful for others input as
this particular question (the way bread was normally consumed during period)
has been an object of deep interest to me for several years. Perhaps
Adamantius or His Excellency, Duke Coriadoc could shed some further light on
this intriguing question.
Yours in service to the Dream,
Lord Ras al Zib, AoA, OSyc (Uduido at aol.com)
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:44:53 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Butter-oops
Hi, Katerine here. Lord Ras writes:
>It is also my contention that bread was
>almost universally dipped in broths,etc. (e.g. "sops") thus negating the
>widespread use of any spread being necessary. I would welcome any further
>thoughts or info in this area.
Period serving manuals indicate that tables were set with large amounts
of bread completely apart from trenchers, and that bread was always on
the table with cheese and fruit before the first course arrived. This
would tend to go against your contention. There are recipes for sops,
but they are not all that common; and while it is highly probable that
bread was dipped in other broths and sauces, we have no evidence
that it was *only* used so, and considerable reason to doubt it. On
the other hand, the same serving manuals make no mention of putting
butter on the table (or olive oil); which suggests that neither was it
spread with substances of that kind, at least much of the time.
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:40:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)
Warning: Longwinded Post to follow!
Berengaria wrote:
>Also, we were talking about bleaching flour earlier. My
>understanding is that much modern bleached flour comes about because
>of chemical bleaching, not storage methods. I have also been going
>for the unbleached white flour, which is still fine and white, and
>using that in my SCA cooking attempts. Any thoughts on this?
I have listened to the flour debate quite a bit. The latest "in" arguement I
have heard was that only modern "biscuit" flour had the appropriate texture
and color to resemble period fine white bread. These "statements of
unmaleable fact" make me nervous. Others insist that a percentage of whole
wheat and/or rye must be added to the mixture to get an accurate
representation of "real" period flour (various errant grains having been
reaped with the wheat, y'see, or partions of bran remaining in the flour).
I feel that the truth is somewhat less sweeping. For many of us, we have to
use what is available. Add to that factor the "scientific hypothesis" about
Biscuit flour, and what you get is this: We don't know for sure. However,
from SCA baking experience and source reading it is possiible to draw some
conclusions:
Period European White Bread (Manchet) was very similar to our modern dense
home-made white loaves, at least from written descriptions. It is possible
to duplicate the few period bread recipes with good results. You can be
confident that you are arriving close to the reality if you use unbleached
white flour (or biscuit flour). Mostly these recipes have been guarded by
baking guilds who, naturally, were loath to part with their secrets, and
thus did not write them down.
Just as now, all sorts of breads were available in period, made from many
types of grains. Pulse, for instance, was a flour made of at least a portion
of pea- or bean-meal. Add in other factors: colder climates with poorer
soils and little imports used more oats or other hearty grains. Warmer, more
accessible, soil-rich areas preferred wheat, but barley, Rye, etc. were
common and had wide usage.
In general, the higher in society one went, the lower the proportion of
unleavened/whole grains that were included in the "daily bread".
At least in Russia, bread and other food was used as a form of monetary
exchange for servants and vassals. A weekly portion was alloted for each
servant in the form of a huge loaf (or a half-loaf). This was supposed to
last for the week, so it must have been very large indeed (see the
Domostroi). The French brought over to the colonies a tradition for Miches,
or large, round loaves of "commom" bread, which weighed sufficient to last
for several days without going stale. My source says that they could weight
up to 16 lbs. (English Bread and Yeast Cookery, Elizabeth David, Viking
Press, NY 1980--but I'm quoting second hand).
Not all breads were leavened. Some breads were leavened by captured yeast
(a/k/a spontaneous leaven), some by "starters" or "mothers" or "trees"
(portion of the dough reserved for the next batch). Some breads were leavend
with brewing yeast borrowed from the scum (for top-brewing strains more
common in period) or the lees (sediment leftover).
So, although we have a great deal of information, we once again are stuck
with the fact that, not having eaten bread in period, we can only make
educated guesses about texture, flour quality, leavening and grain content.
But as far as I'm concerned, that's the fun part.
Now, I have a question for the other bread-lovers out there:
I have seen recipes for "plain" bread, and rich bread with fruit included
(called Diet Bread!?!). Has anyone out there seen recipes for what we'd call
"herb" bread, or bread incorporating any other ingredients like cheese? Just
curious. I've seen nary a one(well, a few cheese-fritter recipes, but I'm
looking for loaf-bread recipes here). That doesn't mean they weren't
consumed, however, in period. I tend to have a rather narrow focus, not
looking much past central Europe unless an autocrat hands me a different
theme for the feast.
Cheers,
Aoife
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:42:51 -0400
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Bread Recipes
The only recipe I have dedacted "to make a fine brede" is actually
angelfood cake, so that's not much help. I have one book with some bread recipes, but I think these are mostly adapted ones because since it was
such a simple thing, not many bread recipes survived until pretty late in
cooking history.
One of my hobbies is collecting old cookbook, you can be amazed and amused
at the contents! And we're not even talking 20th Century.
In "The Medieval Cookbook" by Maggie Black, she notes that no recipes have
survived but gives two recipes based upon her reading of many references.
One is White Bread and one is Barley Bread. I checked several other
cookbooks and while some refer to bread already made, none have recipes for
it. Be careful, as with modern British english, 'biskit' or 'biskit brede'
is more often a cookie than what we refer to as bread nowadays.
---D Morgan
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:24:55
From: Luznicky <we4 at widomaker.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: bread recipe needed
At 10:26 PM 5/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a simple period bread recipe that uses all-purpose
>flour? Most of the recipes I have found have onions or lots of spices,
>etc. It is to be served at a feast, so I would like to find a recipe
>that most people would find tasty.
>
>Maggie
Many recipes (as in _English bread and yeast cookery_) use packaged yeast.
Not period. You will need a sour dough recipe to be close to any that would
have been made in period(many did use the barm from beer.) A couple
of suggested sources are 1) the Desem bread recipe in _Laurel's Bread Book_
and 2) any fo the whole grain recipes in _Breads from La Brea_ by Nancy
Silverton. Good Luck!
Mikhail the Armorer
Tarkhan Khanate Bright Hawk
Great Household of the Dark Horde
PLMPLA
we4 at widomaker.com
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)
Aoife discussed flours and bread recipes.
What we have found so far for bread recipes includes:
1. Rastons, from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (English): yeast
bread made with eggs and sugar in the dough; after baking, cut off top
crust, crumble inside to crumbs, mix butter in with crumbs, put top crust
back on and bake again briefly.
2. Platina's description of how to make bread (15th c. Italian): wheat
flour with salt, flour, and "leaven", which I believe to be sourdough,
baked the day after the dough is made.
3. Chapatis, from a 16th-century Indian book, with no directions but with
quantities by weight of flour, milk, ghee (clarified butter), and salt.
So far, that is it for recipes. Anne Wilson (_Food and Drink in Britain_;
a very good secondary source) discusses breads and flours, going from
household accounts and bakers' regulations; according to her, higher wheat
content and whiter flours increase both up the social scale at any given
time and through time during our period.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:14:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook wrote:
> What we have found so far for bread recipes includes:
>
> 1. Rastons, from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (English)....
>
> 2. Platina's description of how to make bread (15th c. Italian)....
>
> 3. Chapatis, from a 16th-century Indian book....
>
> So far, that is it for recipes....
If we're going far enough afield to include both rastons and chapatis,
I think we can include some other yeast-raised recipes from the
Andalusian sources. Cariadoc/David posted a few of these, notably the
famous "pile of pancakes bread" (whose Arabic name I've forgotten). I
would point out also the dish "muqawwara", which is a yeast-raised
bread dough, of either semolina or ordinary flour, moistened with milk
and egg yolks (IIRC, the 13c. original recipe says 15 egg yolks per
pound of flour), which is shaped into a disk and pan-fried on both
sides. Of course, it is then further abused in a manner reminiscent of
Rastons: you cut out the middle, crumble the crumbs, mix them with
chopped almonds and pistachios, and refill the cavity with crumbs in
alternating layers with sugar and melted butter. It's in my T.I.
article, which is on Greg Lindahl's SCA cookery page as well as at
"http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/sca/cooking/";.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:26:16 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes
Hi, Katerine Rountre here.
Just a quick footnote. Lord Ras writes:
>This holds true for other New World foods such as corn which can be
>documented as being grown in LATE period but it's documented use was strictly
>for animal feed. Human consumption is not documented per se and certainly was
>not readily accepted in noble circles.
Actually, I have documented corn as used for human consumption. The class
isn't clear. But only in the form of bread, and not modern (baking soda
leavened) corn bread. For details, see
http://www.watervalley.net/users/jtn/Articles/maize.html
But it's a *very* narrow window of time and place, and we don't know in any
detail what sort of bread anyhow. Should people serve corn at feasts, based
on this information? Who the heck knows what "should" means in this context?
All I hope for, is that those who choose to do so will make some attempt to
avoid false impressions of what we actually know of the record ("Of course
it's okay! S/He's documented corn up one side and down the other!").
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:56:37 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Campfire bread (was: SC - camping recipes)
On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 linneah at erols.com wrote:
> I've always been partial to bread dough wrapped around a clean green stick and
> held over the fire until golden - sort of like roasting a marshmallow. Eat it
> plain or brush it with butter and sprinkle with cinnamon and sugar. May not
> be period, but it is tasty.
If you do it on a flat iron "skillet" (the type found i several viking digs)
it is period as a cooking method. Not sure about the alternative of using
a flat rock, but I would tend to assume that was done in early period
"field expedient cooking" as well.
If you want to keep it period you should also give some thought to the
grains you use in the bread (and stay away from baking powder). For great
results mix in some peas (boiled and mashed) in the dough, as well as
mixing several different grains. This was done in several of the breads
(or porridges; it is often hard to tell the difference 1000 years later)
found in the viking age archaeological material.
/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:15:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Building ovens
> Erin Kenny wrote:
>
> I have thought about this, but not yet tested the design. My
> thoughts go as follows.
>
> ... [detailed construction discussion omitted]
Thom Leonard's _The Bread Book_ includes a 17-page chapter on
constructing and using a brick oven. He says, among other things,
"An oven built of a single thickness of brick will work well, but the
extra mass and strength gained by a simply applied 2-inch layer of
concrete makes all the difference." Concrete, of course, puts it way
OOP, but a layer of clay on the outside of the bricks should serve the
same purpose, adding heat-retaining mass. I've wanted to build such a
thing for several years now... in fact, I was considering building a
mobile one, either on a wheelbarrow (as appears in at least one late
medieval woodcut) or on a car trailer.
If you're curious about the book, which also discusses baking bread from
levain (semisolid sourdough starter), grinding your own flour, and even
growing your own wheat, ask your local natural-foods store; it's
published by East-West Health Books, copyright 1990, ISBN 0-936184-09-4.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:57:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
Sue Wensel wrote:
> >I've used unsliced commercial whole grain loaves, the market calls
> >them "Peasant style." They're often round or oval instead of
> >Wonder Bread shaped. Sometimes I use bread dough from the
> >supermarket, but baked on site that day (and if I could get dough
> >other than plain white, I'd do it more often).
>
> Why do you not use plain white? I understand the loaf shape, though I don't
> know what evidence we have for it. Bread pan shaped loaves strike us as too
> modern. Is that part of your reason for not using white bread?
>
> >Caitlin Davies
>
> Derdriu
Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say, it sits in a
not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.
Period European breads would also have been heavier in texture, since
through most of Europe the wheat grown and eaten was much softer (read
lower in gluten) than what we are accustomed to today.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
<< I use bread dough from the supermarket, but baked on site that day >>
I also use frozen white bread dough from the market. I unthaw the loaves and
divide each loaf into 4 pcs. I then roll it into a ball and roll it in
oatmeal. I grease a sheet pan and lay then on it 4 by 6 thus getting 24
loaves to a pan. I let it rise til double and bake. It is quick, easy, and
tasty. The oatmeal gives it a rustic look and each person gets there own
individual loaf of bread. :-)
Lord Ras
Date: 23 Jul 1997 11:21:57 -0500
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Subject: Re(2): SC - Bread
>Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
>probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
>in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
>larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
>small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
>natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say, it sits in a
>not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
>still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
>lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.
I don't concur on this. Markham has several recipes calling for "fine white
flour." I don't think our whole wheat flours will fit that bill. I think
they were able to get rather fine flour by bolting several times and I suspect
they had some fairly fine bolting cloths. Unfortunately, I don't have any
sources with me (at work) and the ones I have read are currently in the local
library.
>Period European breads would also have been heavier in texture, since
>through most of Europe the wheat grown and eaten was much softer (read
>lower in gluten) than what we are accustomed to today.
The wheat I don't know much about. What is your recommended reading on this?
>Adamantius
Derdriu
swensel at brandegee.lm.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:49:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - Bread
Sue Wensel wrote:
> >Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
> >probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
> >in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
> >larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
> >small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
> >natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say, it sits in a
> >not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
> >still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
> >lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.
>
> I don't concur on this. Markham has several recipes calling for "fine white
> flour." I don't think our whole wheat flours will fit that bill. I think
> they were able to get rather fine flour by bolting several times and I suspect
> they had some fairly fine bolting cloths. Unfortunately, I don't have any
> sources with me (at work) and the ones I have read are currently in the local
> library.
"White" appears often to have been a relative term, as in white
marmalade of quinces, which is reddish amber in color, white puddings,
which are usually pale beige. My family are all fair-complected and
fairly pale, with brown eyes and hair, and the lady next door, born in
Dublin, calls me "Blackie", because we aren't blonde or redhaired. As
for flour, I'm sure that by repeated boltings (and I have done the whole
Little Red Hen thing myself, starting from a single ear of wheat and
ending up with bread) you can get it much finer and paler than pure,
fresh, stone-ground whole wheat flour, but you still won't get the kind
of flour your baker or a bread factory uses to make white bread, and you
won't get that kind of bread, either, unless the baker makes a bread
from mixed white and whole wheat flour.
> The wheat I don't know much about. What is your recommended reading on this?
I believe both "Food in History" (Reay Tannahill) and "Food and Drink In
Britain" (C. Anne Wilson) go into the issue of period bread. For the
hard science of it, see Harold McGee's "On Food And Cooking" and "The
Curious Cook". Probably also Margaret Visser's "Much Depends On Dinner".
I used to have a book called "The Staffs of Life", which went into this
pretty well also, but I don't remember the author or where the book is.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:10:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 22-Jul-97 Re: SC - Bread by
Philip & Susan Troy at asan
> Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
> probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
> in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
> larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
> small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
> natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say, it sits in a
> not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
> still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
> lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.
That depends on where you are. Sicily, for example, was known in period
for it's white bread--a description I can't imagine coming from anything
close to Roman Meal colored. I think golden is more what you're looking
for, as most of the natural oil in the wheat (which is removed in modern
milled wheat) remained--this is the color you get from semolina, for
example.
toodles, margaret
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:57:31 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
Gretchen M Beck wrote:
> That depends on where you are. Sicily, for example, was known in period
> for it's white bread--a description I can't imagine coming from anything
> close to Roman Meal colored. I think golden is more what you're looking
> for, as most of the natural oil in the wheat (which is removed in modern
> milled wheat) remained--this is the color you get from semolina, for
> example.
You're right; I shouldn't make generalizations. The color I was
referring to, though, is a pale beige, like cafe au lait. Just a bit
paler than Wonder Whole Wheat. I was thinking in terms of the "white"
bread of Northern Europe through most of period. Possibly the wheat oils
have something to do with it.
However, semolina is made from several varieties of wheat, some of which
are whiter/yellower than others. Certainly the yellow color was
considered a sign of quality. I remember reading somewhere that it was
dyed with saffron or some other herbal derivative. It is today, I know.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:12:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
I also read somewhere that wheat was a more generic term as well,
and that medieval bread was sometimes made with spelt, rye and other
grains. While the upper classes ate more what we consider wheat middle
and lower classes ate a more mixed grain. These were denser and chewier.
I am sure that a great [deal] of our breads would be a surprise to them.
Do you think that "Essene bread" was eaten? I've alwys been
curious about the use of sprouted wheat used as bread. I have Elizabeth
David's book on bread, and can check on what she says.
Clare St. John
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:25:59 +0000
From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.interquest.de>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
Adamantius wrote:
You're right; I shouldn't make generalizations. The color I was
referring to, though, is a pale beige, like cafe au lait. Just a bit
paler than Wonder Whole Wheat. I was thinking in terms of the "white"
bread of Northern Europe through most of period. Possibly the wheat oils
have something to do with it.
However, semolina is made from several varieties of wheat, some of which
are whiter/yellower than others. Certainly the yellow color was
considered a sign of quality. I remember reading somewhere that it was
dyed with saffron or some other herbal derivative. It is today, I know.
______________________________________
They are still baking breads here (Germany) in what I believe is the age old
tradition with the exception of using steam injection ovens instead
of brick.
Most of the breads here vary in shades of brown. The only "white"
bread I have seen is kartoffeln brot (potato bread) and that is an
off-white color. They consider American white bread to be like a
cake. The breads are sold in round and oblong loaves, you can buy
half a loaf if you want.
I am still exploring and trying new things and bread is one of my
favorite. Fresh bread is still such an important commodity that the
only things open on Sundays are the bread shops- but only for
an hour.
Ysabeau of Prague
Lisa Sawyer
Ysabeau at interquest.de
Baumholder,Germany
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:53:08 -0500
Subject: ANST - Sifters and Sieves
The discussion on baking, ovens and bread asked about period
sifters/sieves. I don't know what anyone else was using, but I can tell you
what the Vikings used (and in fact, Swedes in the countryside still use
even today)... they used a round, cup-shaped sieve made by naalbinding,
utilizing horsehair fiber. Such sieves were used for sifting flour, and
for straining milk. Milk straining is how most seem to be used in the
present day, but archaeological examples have been found with ground grain
trapped in the fibers.
Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:25:08 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Lombardy Custard
Hi, Katerine here. Linneah asks:
>How often were the crusts made NOT to be eaten? When I did my research
>for a paper on food, I understood that it was frequent that the crust
>was only the vessel and not intended for eating. Is this just when it
>calls for a coffin?
This is a complex question, and I'm not sure anyone knows the answer.
On the one hand, period serving manuals clearly indicate that in some
cases (especially meats baked in crusts), the crust itself was not
served. Instead it was opened, the meat (and possibly sauce) removed,
the meat carved, and the contents served.
On the other hand, medieval recipes frequently call for ingredients
in crusts (like sugar) that do not particularly affect their appearance,
but to affect their flavor. We also see references to tender crusts.
So equally clearly, crusts are at least sometimes intended to be
eaten.
It's tempting to hypothesize that most sweet pies are intended to be
eaten crust and all, as are most custard ones (whether with or without
meat), while meats (and fish, of course) baked in a crust are intended
to be lifted out; but I don't know of anywhere one could look to
give a clear answer.
- -- Katerine/Terry
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Smoking Questions
> Recently, I have become very interested in how cooking related
> fire works. In the last 3 years, I have built two beehive style ovens at
> the Pennsic War and have also undertaken building one in the back yard, as
> a means to study both their use and maintenance.
>
> Anyone who could send/direct me to good resources for recipes and related
> information(in modern english, please) would be very appreciated.
We bought a book on building brick ovens at Pennsic this year, but we
haven't finished unpacking all the stuff from Pennsic so I'm not sure
where the book is. However, I can also recommend _The Bread Book_, by
Thom Leonard, pub. East-West Health Books 1990, ISBN 0-936184-09-4.
This book discusses how to make traditional "levain"-raised bread and
maintain the culture for the next batch, how to grind flour for bread
(with commentary on different makes of grinders), what sorts of wheat
are best for bread, how to grow them in your back yard, and how to build
and use a brick oven.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:16:28 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Plum Pudding
To get back on subject, the penny loaf was the price of a loaf of bread
under the Assize of Bread established in 1266. There were three
qualities of flour listed and three different weights of loaf. In terms
of 17th and 18th century recipes, what is usually meant is the penny
white loaf (a manchet) which weighed between 6 and 8 ounces. A wheat or
brown loaf would weigh 12 to 16 ounces.
Elizabeth David recommends using 81 to 85 percent extraction wheat meal
with a small proportion of unbleached white flour enriched with milk and
eggs to approximate Jacobean or Georgian manchets.
So, my guess at a 1 lb. loaf is half off.
Bear
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:58:26 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts)
> have a quetion about using homerew in cooking. One of the men in our shire
>makes a fairly good home brew (so I 'm told). His beer generally has a layer
>of stuff in the bottom of the bottle. When drinking they just pour the beer
>off gently and then dispose of the sediment. Would you want to keep that
>sediment when using it to cook with? Or is it just nasty stuff that should be
>disposed of?
>
>Mercedes
>rudin at okway.okstate.edu
The sediment is the residue of the fermentation process and is usually
pretty bitter and nasty. I personally would not add it to what I'm
cooking.
For the beer bread, there should be enough yeast left in the brew to get
a rise, although it may take longer than the original chemical aeration.
I would use the beer at room temperature or even warm it to 90 to 100
degrees F to improve the action. If you are still worried about the
rise, add about a 1/4 teaspoon of dry active yeast to the beer. Actual
rise time will depend on temperature, quantity of ingredients, etc.
Medieval baking was primarily done with ale barm. This is the scum off
the top of the ale pot, where, since ale is top fermenting, much of the
yeast dwells. Beer is bottom fermenting. In baking, it produces a more
bitter taste than ale. In making a medieval style beer bread, ale would
probably be the liquor of choice. Don't let this stop you from running
up a batch of beer bread if what you have is bottom fermented beer, I've
got a quart of porter left from my wife's birthday party, half of which
is going in a black and tan and half into a batch of beer bread as an
experiment.
If it doesn't work out the first time, don't let that bother you.
Whether you suceed or fail, please let us know what you did, so those of
us who try the recipe have some ideas of the limits of the recipe.
Baking is one area of cooking where you don't know what you have until
it comes out of the oven. I expect to have to try the recipe three or
four time to get an acceptable, reproducible recipe for a medieval style
beer bread. It will probably be a week or two before I try, and if you
have made the recipe by then, your experience will help me decide how to
approach the project.
My current project is to produce a period manchet. My first attempt
produced what I call Francis Drake's bowling balls. My second attempt
was much better, producing roll-like breads with an exterior like a
brotchen and a muffinish interior. The color was off due to the choice
of flours. I'll post a full report sometime next week after I sort out
some problems with the baking temperature. I hope you will do the same
with the beer bread.
Bear
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:01:14 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Bread/beer/yeast
Butting in again about breadmaking. I generally don't make bread
from the yeast in the bottom of the bottle, only after bottling beer
and having the lees to use up. After one or two appalling disasters,
I would strongly recommend not using stout barm or bitter barm for
bread. It makes stuff that is virtually inedible. If you don't brew
yourself, try to convince your favourite brewer to make ale or a
light beer. The stuff that's left in the bottom of the bottles
generally sits in my fridge (not more than a week or so) and used in
sauces (eg. over sausages) or (my favourite) Skye Cake, which is a
Scots recipe for fruitcake with the dried fruit soaked overnight in
beer first. I do usually use baking soda (1/2 quantity from normal),
but think that a yeast-risen version would be perfectly acceptable.
Cairistiona
*****************************************************
Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:28:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tyrca at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Beer-dregs
<<
This is dead yeast and sediment from the brewing mixture. It looks awful but
is not harrmful,. Sime brewers (not many) consider the "dregs the best part
of the bottle and selfishly reserve it for themselves. :-)
Ras >>
Actually, from my experience, not all of that yeast is dead. Yes, the brew
has stopped bubbling, but there are many times when I have taken some brew
out of the carboy for only one bottle as a gift, and seen the carboy start
bubbling again because of the introduced oxygen. So I see no problem about
using it to bake with. Another option might be to get some of the foam that
appears on the top of beer as it is in the process of brewing, as this is
full of very active and healthy yeast. It is called the Barm (I think. My
husband is the brewer. I am more of a Mazer, maker of meads).
Tyrca
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:27:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Alphabet pretzels
On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Ian van Tets wrote:
> doesn't one of the recipes for jumbles recommend cutting them in Ss
> if no other letter springs conveniently to mind?
>
> Cairistiona
I have just gotten a nice little food book called The Dutch Table by
Gillian Riley. It is mostly 16th and 17th century Dutch paintings of food
and kitchens - with some commentary and many undocumented recipes that she
says are from an early 17th century source but does not quote in the
original. there are numerous paintings of bread dough letters both in
homes and in markets and the author talks about them being made for the
Feast of St. Nicholas on December 6th. There are also pictures of
traditional, twisted pretzels. It's hard to tell if the letters are
cookies or plain bread - there are some that look like each. Most of the
paintings are slightly out of period, but this is a lovely book.
elaina
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:16:52 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - Re: Cracknels
Master Huon asked what cracknels were. This is from _'Banquetting
Stuffe'_, page 96-97, the chapter written by Peter Brears.
"Various other sponge-textured biscuits became popular during the
seventeenth-century - the Naples biscuits, Italian biscuits, Prince
biscuits, drop biscuits, almond biscuits, lemon biscuits, shell-bread,
etc. - all made from combinations of ine flour, sugar, eggs, and
various flavourings. In addition, there were both cracknells and
jumbals, which had originally been plunged into a pan of boiling water,
from which, after a short time, they rose to the surface, were caught
in a skimmer and only then transferred to the oven. By the seventeenth
century, however, the boiling process had been largely abandoned."
Brears then goes on to give a cracknell recipe from 1671, _The Compleat
Cook_, which does not go through the boiling process. I would suspect
that you would need a recipe from a similar time period. If I can find
one, I will post it, but perhaps others have a recipe at hand???
Alys Katharine
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:58:55 +0000
From: James and/or Nancy Gilly <KatieMorag at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cracknels
When in doubt, check the OED. 8)
CRACKNEL, 1. A light, crisp kind of biscuit, of a curved or hollow
shape. Cf CRACKLING 4. [various citations, dating from
1440 to 1884]
2. pl. Small pieces of fat pork fried crisp. (local Eng. and
U.S.) Cf CRACKLING 3 b. [no citations given]
3. = CRACKLE 3, CRACKLING 5. rare [one citation, dated 18xx -
don't have a magnifying glasss handy to make out the last
two digits]
The other definitions referred to are:
CRACKLING, 3b. dial and U.S. The crisp residue of hogs' fat after
the lard is dried out. [two citations from the 1880s]
4. = CRACKNEL. Now dial. [three citations - can't read the
date on the first; the other two are from the 1800s]
5. = CRACKLE 3, crackle-ware. [one citation from the 1800s]
The definition for "crackle" refers to china (the sort with the finish with
cracks all over it), not to food, so I won't bother copying it here.
Since all the other definitions come from the 19th century, I'd say
definition 1 - the biscuit - is the pertinent one.
Alasdair mac Iain
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:44:33 +0100 (CET)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <pkl at absaroka.obgyn.ks.se>
Subject: Baking (was: SC - My Profile)
Why not do the (early) period thing: bake on a skillet? I've baked cakes
of yeast or sourdough bread on what to most extents is equivalent to the
many long-handeled skillets found in Viking contexts. No big, fluffy
loaves, but still good bread. If your crowd would go for unleavened
bread this is also quite possible.
Or use a flat rock, with the fire underneath. I've been part of a
project making bread for 50+ on a large flat rock (took us half a day or
so for 4" cakes of unleaved (mostly) barley bread ...)
/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:51:11 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Breads
>From: Tara Sersen[ladycharissa at geocities.com]
>Today a friend and I were discussing making bread for feasts, and were
>trying to figure out how to freeze dough so we can do all the hard work
>way in advance.
>
>Marjorie
>Mountain Confederation
>Fox Clan
I've frozen bread dough for use at a feast (1st Ansteorra-Calontir
Interkingdom if I remember correctly) because the size of the feast
would outstrip my capacity to produce it fresh.
To prepare the dough for freezing, allow the first rise, punch down the
dough, knead it, and shape the loaf. Wrap the loaf in wax paper and
seal it into foil or plastic bags. Freeze.
To bake: Unwrap the dough, place it in greased tins or on a greased
baking sheet at room temperature. Allow to thaw and rise. Bake as per
instructions.
Caveats:
I used 1 teaspoon of yeast per pound of flour on a standard bread recipe
to ensure a good rise after thawing.
Be sure the dough is nice and elastic and not too sticky after the
second kneading, else it may stick to the wrapper.
Be wary of self defrosting freezers and extended storage. Bread dough
which comes above freezing will start to rise slowly and may damage your
packaging. If your freezer fails, get the bread dough out and baked, to
save yourself from an interesting result.
Since you're going to be experimenting, try this. Freeze one loaf, bake
one loaf. Cool the baked loaf on a rack, then wrap it air-tight in a
plastic freezer bag or foil and tape. Freeze it.
When you are ready to test, thaw the baked loaf completely at room
temperature, wrap it in foil and heat it for about 20 minutes at 350
degrees F.
Bake the frozen dough. Compare the taste and textures.
I'd make four loaves at a time, use a quarter of the dough for the thaw,
knead, rise and bake method, and bake the fourth to save me from
gobbling up the experiment.
Bear
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:41:21 EST
From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain)
Subject: SC - Frozen Bread Dough
After seeing the post on freezing bread dough I remembered a chart that
my father had given me reguarding cooking and bread. He has always had
fun experimenting with breads over the years and came up with the
following chart on cooking by measuring the internal temperature of
things. I hope this helps and according to the chart one should be
careful not to freeze the bread dough too cold or it will not bake
properly.
Temperature Measurements For Baking
212F: Pie Done
190F - 200F: Bread done, Core Measurement
150F: Hot pastry ideal temp & scald milk, kills protease for better yeast
growth
140F: Reheat stale bread to refresh
110F - 115F: Proofing yeast grows best
074F - 080F: Dough rises best
046F: Bread stales 6x faster than 86 degrees
020F: Store frozen dough
000F: Frozen dough yeast dies
Korrin S. DaArdain
Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:47:43 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Breads
TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< Being curious, I ask, why should you go crazy making 17 loaves of bread?
Bear >>
I don't. In the bread area , I usually go period-like. I buy pre-frozen bread
dough , let it thaw , cut each into 4 pieces; roll each piece into the shape
of a ball and then brush it with half egg white/half water wash; roll it in
steel cut oats. cut an X in the top of each; pot them on a sheet pan 1 1/2
inches apart. Let rise. Bake. Voila> Individual loves of bread for each
person.
Ras
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:26:51 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Book
David, Elizabeth, English Bread and Yeast Cookery; The Viking Press, New
York, 1980. ISBN 0-670-29653-8. This is the American Edition with notes by
Karen Hess. The original English edition was published in 1977.
There is a hardbound version currently in print from another publisher, but
I don't know if Hess' notes are included. The book covers flour, yeast and
the other ingredients for baking, a brief history of bread, ovens, bread and
cake tins, basic bread recipes, baps, rolls, historic bread recipes, yeast
cakes, regional breads and cakes, dessert breads and soda breads.
This is the closest thing I have found to a baker's bible. If you are a
baker, buy a hardbound copy. It will get a lot of use.
Bear
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:41:25 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bread recipes-date.
Deanna.Knott at GSC.GTE.Com writes:
<< I have heard that the first *recipe* for bread dates from somewhere in the
14th ot 15th centuries. >>
You might want to push the bread recipe date back another century. al-Baghdadi
contains numerous recipes for bread most of which also specify amounts of
ingredients in one form or the other. This book appears in volume 1 of
Cariadoc's Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks.
Ras
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:46:59 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bread
csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk writes:
<< Should cooks be baking breads? - different guilds! >>
Probably not. :-) Towns during the middle ages frequently, if not
exclusively, outlawed cooking at home any way. You usually bought your dough
at one place and then took it to the baker for baking. The same pattern was
repeated for other foods. "Life ion a Medieval Village" talks somewhat on
this subject for a starting place.
Bread-making and cooking were conducted "on-premises" in the manner houses and
castles though. So given that the SCA persona is technically considered as
being of "noble" birth, there would would no problem with baking your own
bread. :-)
Ras
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:15:48 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: Fermented Beverage Recipe Question(was:RE: SC - Michael Scott Shappe <mikey at Hundred-Acre-Wood.com>: Re: [Mid] Society for CREATIVE Ana chronism
> I have heard that the first *recipe* for bread dates from somewhere in the
> 14th ot 15th centuries. This doesn't mean that bread isn't period for
> earlier times. I was told that they didn't write a recipe because
> everyone *knew* how to make bread. Does this hold true for fermented
> beverages? Does the literacy rate amongst the alewives have an effect on
> this and how most of their knowledge was probably verbal? Or, is there
> some other reason (like some crazy people buyrned most of the books with
> beer recipes in them? hehe)?
>
> Avelina Keyes
> Barony of the Bridge
> East Kingdom
The first recipe for bread is Sumerian and is around 5000 years old. It is
for an unleavened barley bread which is both eaten and used as the primary
ingredient in Sumerian beer. Pliny the Elder provides enough information,
that one could recreate bread as made by the Goths. And there are also
non-European bread recipes from earlier in the SCA period.
The recipes of which you are thinking are Platina's bread recipe, rastons
from the Harleian manuscripts (if I remember the correct source) and a
recipe for manchets from the Good Huswife's Jewell (again from memory).
There are a number of recipes published immediately after period which are
probably a good example of Elizabethean baking. My opinion of these recipes
is they are taken from the baking for manors or large households rather than
commercial baking.
Baking and brewing seems to have been common, especially on farms and
estates. Towns were a different matter. Commercial bakers and brewers were
members of guilds which purchased specific rights for specific areas. For
example, medieval bakers owned the ovens, and in many towns, no one other
than the bakers was allowed an oven for bread. In such a case, the baker
made bread to sell, and, for fee, would bake a householders dough or make
bread from the ingredients provided.
While the lack of recipes is probably due to a low literacy rate, it is also
possible that the lack of recipes demonstrates the strength and secrecy of
the bakers and brewers guilds. Bakers and brewers spent years learning and
improving their craft and shared their knowledge only with a few apprentices
and journeymen, so even if the information was written down, it would have
only been given to a guild member.
Bear
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:18:34 EDT
From: melc2newton at juno.com
Subject: SC - bean vs. wheat
In _How They Lived; 55 B.C. - 1486, W.O. Hassall lists an passage that I
was confused about and was wondering if anyone else had heard about:
Source: Thomas Waleys, Moralitates, c. 1326 -42. Translated from
extract in Beryl Smalley, English Friars and Antiquity in the Early
Fourteenth Century, Blackwell 1960. p.309
"I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""
So, what exactly is bean bread, and does anyone have a recipe? I would
like to see this, maybe at above/below the salt feast.
beatrix
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:09:20 +0100
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SC - bean vs. wheat
> In _How They Lived; 55 B.C. - 1486, W.O. Hassall lists an passage that I
> was confused about and was wondering if anyone else had heard about:
>
> Source: Thomas Waleys, Moralitates, c. 1326 -42. Translated from
> extract in Beryl Smalley, English Friars and Antiquity in the Early
> Fourteenth Century, Blackwell 1960. p.309
>
> "I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
> England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
> them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
> more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
> to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
> than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
> The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
> The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
> it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
> so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""
>
> So, what exactly is bean bread, and does anyone have a recipe? I would
> like to see this, maybe at above/below the salt feast.
> beatrix
Bean bread is a bread made partially with bean flour (pea flour
was used similarly). Certainly by the 15th century it was regarded as a
food of poverty and/or shortage and was not popular - there was pressure
from workers to recieve white wheaten flour (even wholemeal bread wasn't
popular) - see Christopher Dyer 'Everyday Life in Later Medieval
England'.
A member of the White Company (Mark Fry who I've copied in on
this) has made it from a recipe by Maggie Black in the Weald and
Downland medeival village cookbook. I don't have details, and perhaps
Mark would be kind enough to supply them. I can however comment on the
results. The bread Mark made was quite white but heavy and dense, which
was not surprising given the lack of gluten in bean flour. It was quite
salty but worked well with pottage.
I would suggest that this story is a good example of employers
justifying to themselves why they don't give their workers wheaten bread
which they were requesting.
Caroline
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:56:06 +0100
From: "Mark Fry" <mfry at FRIENDSPROVIDENT.btinternet.com>
Subject: SC - C15th Bean/Pea Breads
Hi Caroline & all
Just some more 'bready' thoughts to pass onto you cooking info circle.
I'd have no problems about you also passing on my bread experiment article
in the WC newsletter 67. if that might help people - there is also my
research (in a 1997 WC newsletter) on the quantities of food given to
soldiers and galley marines which might be of interest but I don't have an
electronic copy of either text anymore.
The bread(s) I've been experimenting with are the various mixed grain types.
At least one of these was called 'horse bread' during the C15th and this
appears to have been an inferior quality bread (if we are to believe the
complaints of soldiers issued with it as rations) made from a mixture of
pea/bean flour and wheat flour. I've also experimented with rye/wheat and
barley/flour mixes as well. There is also refferance to a 3 grain bread -
wheat, rye & bean/pea - but I've not tried this yet.
Why it was called 'horse' bread is open to various interpretations but
there are C15th documented refferances (I'll try & get you the exact source
details) in hunting manuals to the fact that bread was to be specifically
baked for both horses and hounds. The reason for having the latter was that
it was used in the hunt at a 'kill' - (the bread for the dogs was dipped
into the blood of the kill and fed to the dogs) - I suppose this was to
keep them off the meat whilst still maintaining their interest in the hunt.
Whether the horse bread & hound bread was made from the same recipe I have
no idea.
Another theory about the name 'horse bread' is that the beans used were
what are still called 'Horse Beans' in parts of the west country (UK) even
today. These are a small beaned version of the broad bean family, grown
today as a feed crop for livestock and a nitrogen 'fixing' agent, which
when dried produce a very 'powdery' flour. I personally think this is an
unlikely reason for the 'horse bread' name as peas were used as well as
beans - but its a thought.
Another possible reason for the mixed grain is that the resulting 'bread'
is a lot harder & denser in it's constituency than ordinary wheat bread -
more like a biscuit. This does make it ideal material for platters and
serving (a bit like modern German rye breads) but I doubt if bread was
specifically baked for this purpose - there are C15th household accounts
that mention that platters should be made from the cheaper darker bread but
also this should ideally be at least 3 or 4 days old (eg. stale). Again
going back to the hunting theme - both dogs and horses are still fed
biscuit today so maybe the mixed grain 'breads' were baked without yeast
and included some fat in them making them much harder. This would make them
less bulky and breakable in transit and therefore more suitable for taking
on a hunt or a longer journey. My own experiments have produced mixed grain
bread which have not risen at all well which, leaving aside my poor baking
skills, is probably the result of the low gluten in the pea/bean flour.
Also the resulting 'bread' has come out very 'yeasty' in taste & smell
which would seem to indicate that maybe yeast was not used.
I've not tried the mixed wheat/pea or bean flour in biscuit recipes but
will be doing so in the next few weeks and will report back on the
results.The fact that the bean bread also retains it's salty taste more
than either the rye, pea or barley flour could result in a more 'savoury'
biscuit.
If we also consider another possible link to biscuits (this is a bit
tenuous) - C14/15th Italian galley marines were issued with a considerable
amount of dried beans per head per day, as rations - but no bread or flour.
Beans (& the resulting biscuit) would keep much better onboard ship than
pre-ground flour or bread and could be easily ground with hand mills or
taken ashore to be ground in larger mills if required. Without the need for
yeast it would be simplicity itself to bake the bean flour into flat
biscuit type 'bread' on-board ship. In addition the beans could be used in
pottages as well.
The recipe I've based all my experiments on is an adaptation of the Maggie
Black recipe from the Weald & Down Open Air Museum Cookbook (I think this
is now out of print which is a great shame as it's a great source of modern
adaptations of medieval & renaissance recipes) :-
BAYLEAF FARMHOUSE BREAD
1 lb (450g) - Pea/ Bean/Barley/Rye flour*
1 lb 14oz (850g) - strong white baking flour~
2 oz (50g) - rice/corn flour^
1 oz (25g) - dried yeast (fresh is much better)
11/2 tablespoons salt (you will need to reduce this for the beans)
4 tea spoons clear honey
1/4 pint (150 ml) strong brown ale#
1 - 11/4 pint (575-850 ml) warm water
(* I used dried butter beans, yellow split peas and dried pearl barley,
which I ground in an electronic coffee grinder bought specifically for the
purpose. The rye flour came from a health food shop. Dried marrow fat peas
are actually more 'period' than any other form of modern pea/bean, but I
have heard that the flour from these starts to 'de-grade' very quickly once
mixed with water - but I've not tried this yet).
(~ You could use a 50/50 strong white to rye flour mix which produced a
very acceptable loaf - which did rise - just keep the total flour weight
consistant).
(^ I'm not too sure about this as it's a bit 'rich' for inclusion in a
'cheap' bread ?).
(# Possibly this was included by Maggie to represent the fact that most
C15th yeast was a brewing by-product but that's only my own personal
guess).
Maggie also has some recipes for oatmeal 'cakes' which I've tried and which
went down very well with my various guinea-pigs at events. They're made
from a 50/50 oatmeal/wheat flour mix with suet but also include parsley
(I've made them with veggie suet & they work just as well). I'll dig out
the recipe for these and forward them onto you in my next communication.
The C13th refferace to bean bread is very interesting and I'd like to have
a look at the original text for any other 'clues'.
Mark Fry
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:35:40 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Bean Bread and Brid
As to the bean bread, this might prove useful:
"It is folly to send more corn to the mill than one has present use
for. Wee sende (in winter time) a mette [2 bushels] of massledine
for our own tempsed-bread [passed through a tempse, or coarse hair
sieve] backinge; in the heat of summer wee sende but a bushell,
because it will moulde and bee wasted with long standing. Wee sende
for the browne bread baking (in winter time) a bushell of rye; a
bushell of pease and a bushell of barley; and afore wee putte it in
the poake, wee make the miller take a besome and sweepe a place, and
pour it onto the grownd, and blende it alltogeather with his hand,
and after that take a scuttle and putte it into the poake; in summer
time wee send but a mette, because it will grow hard with long
standings, viz, a bushell of pease, and a bushell of rye, into which
wee putt a ryinge or two or three of barley. Wee send for our own
pyes a bushell of the best wheat. We send for the folkes puddinges a
bushell of barley, but never use any rye for puddinges, because it
maketh them soe softe that they run about the platters; in harvest
time they have wheate puddinges. The folkes pye crusts are made of
massledine, as our bread is, because that paste that is made of
barley meale cracketh and checketh [splits]. Poore folks putt
usually a pecke of pease to a bushell of rye; and some again two
pecks of pease to a frundell [2 pecks] of massledine, and say that
these make hearty bread. In many places they grinde after-logginges
of wheat for their servants pyes; and fewer there are that grinde
any barley at all for their household use, because it is soe shorte,
and will not abide workinge."
Henry Best, 'Farming Book', 1641 (in Yorkshire)
Having said that, I _like_ barley bread (half and half with wheat) at
camping events - it lasts better. I used to make a mixed grain loaf
of rice, rye, barley, cornmeal, wheat, buckwheat and whatever else
was around. Buckwheat was the only one that wasn't successful by
itself (or half and half with wheat). Have also been trying sorghum
and wheat combined lately. Very like rye in effect. But to date,
not tried pease flour - tho' I do have some in the cupboard...
Cairistiona
*****************************************************
Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town
Rondebosch 7701 RSA
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:43:11 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - C15th Bean/Pea Breads
Beatrix posted:
>"I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
> England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
> them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
> more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
> to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
> than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
> The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
> The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
> it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
> so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""
This makes very good sense to me!
When you eat peas/beans and grains together, you get a "protein
complimentarity" effect - much more protein is available to your body than
eating them separately. When I was a studying biology and chemistry, I ate
vegetarian simply because I was trying to live on a scholarship. Naturally,
I wanted to know how it all worked...
Protein is made up of 21 amino acids. 14 are really common, so if you have
any food to eat at all, you'll get these. Your body can manufacture 4 from
other amino acids, so you have 3 (tryptophan, thymine and niacine if I
remember correctly) that you must get in order to build your completed
proteins - these are the limiting factors. 2 of these exist in legumes, the
other 1 in grains (they are also present in eggs, seeds, etc). So if you eat
these foods together in the right proportions, you can get enought protien
without eating meat (or even dairy products, if you are really careful).
In other words, although the bean/pea breads were looked down on and only
eaten by the poor, they made up a good chunk of the protien in the lower
class diet and were much better food for them than pure wheat bread would
have been!
Rowan
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:13:58 EDT
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: SC - Travel Bread
Just a general question..... Dr. Henry Lumpkin in his lecture series "The
History of Warfare" Made the statement that travel bread was made in a bagel
shape, threaded through rope and hung around the horses neck when traveling
light (Such as a Knight on horseback).
I know it's a longshot, and since Dr.Lumpkin either drowned or died from a
heart attack (His car went into a lake while he was driving and having a heart
attack, but that's not important), I was wondering if any of you bread experts
out there could point me to an actual written historical reference to this?
Did traval bread sometimes come in the form of a bagel and was the function to
be hung on a rope?
Actually, when you think about how much jews had to travel... it makes sense,
but if anybody knows where to look, point me in the right direction please?
Corwyn
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:12:45 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Travel Bread
> Just a general question..... Dr. Henry Lumpkin in his lecture series "The
> History of Warfare" Made the statement that travel bread was made in a bagel
> shape, threaded through rope and hung around the horses neck when traveling
> light (Such as a Knight on horseback).
>
> I was wondering if any of you bread experts
> out there could point me to an actual written historical reference to
> this?
>
> Did traval bread sometimes come in the form of a bagel and was the
> function to be hung on a rope?
>
> Corwyn
I've never come across this one. I'm not sure I would find a bagel salted
with horse lather very palatable.
Frankly, most of the travel breads I am familiar with are double baked
breads like hardtack or flat bread. These would most likely been wrapped in
a cloth and carried in a pack or a saddle bag. Hanging food around the neck
of a horse is the kind of thing I would expect of a post rider or by troops
on a forced march, rather than just travelling.
A water bagel with its tough skin and its' moisture retaining properties
might make a good travel bread, but I haven't seen a reference to bagels
being used this way.
Most breads with center holes are shaped that way to insure they bake
properly. That they can be hung from a staff and sold is an added
advantage.
Apocryphally, the bagel was first made in 1683 to Jan Sobieski's victory
over the Turks. But there are supposed to be some earlier references to
them. There is some archeological evidence that a bread of this type was in
use by the Uighurs as early as 100 CE.
Bear
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:37:57 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: Feasts too high?
[about the holes in the bottom of loaves cooked in bread machines]
> You could say that the holes were made by the poles used to poke the bread
> out of the far side of the oven.
> John
Refer to them as maker's marks. Very often bread was baked on top of a
metal figure which pressed the baker's mark into the bottom of the loaf.
Peels, thin paddles with long handles, are used to move bread in and out of
the oven and they do not leave holes in a loaf.
Bear
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:03:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request
> I've explored obvious bread-history sources, such as Elizabeth David's
> "English Breads and Yeast Cookery", "World Sourdoughs from Antiquity"
> by Ed Wood, and now I'm searching for the more obscure stuff. (Or have
> I missed any 'obvious' sources?)
You've probably got the two best sources on historical baking available.
You might wish to add Bernard Clayton Jr, The Breads of France and Julius E.
Wihlfahrt, A Treatise on Baking (if you can find it). Paul Rambali,
Boulangerie is a good read, but I would recommend borrowing it from the
library before purchasing. The chapter on baking from C. Anne Wilson, Food
and Drink in Britain, is of use. Jeffery Alford and Naomi Duguid,
Flatbreads and Flavors, is about traditional ethnic flat breads.
> Elizabeth
> Call me "E.B."
Bear
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:03:35 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request
> Julius E. Wihlfahrt, A Treatise on Baking (if you can find it). <snip>
EEEK! I have a copy! (I bought it for 50 cents(!) at the library book
sale. Tattered,with lots of crayon scribbles, alas!) You mean to tell me
someone else has actually heard of this book?
Before the rest of you ask, the title is:
"A Treatise on Flour, Yeast, Fermentation and Baking together with Recipes
for Bread and Cakes, fourth edition revised. by Julius Emil Wihlfahrt,
1915. Presented with the compliments of The Fleischmann Co.
This is a promo piece for Fleischmann's yeast, originally published 1905.
It was written for commercial bakers, & all the recipes are in commercial
quantities.
I have just emailed the Fleischmann's Yeast Co. asking permission to scan &
post this book. We'll have to wait & see what they say...
Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:04:27 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request
> EEEK! I have a copy! (I bought it for 50 cents(!) at the library book
> sale. Tattered,with lots of crayon scribbles, alas!) You mean to tell me
> someone else has actually heard of this book?
>
> Before the rest of you ask, the title is:
> "A Treatise on Flour, Yeast, Fermentation and Baking together with Recipes
> for Bread and Cakes, fourth edition revised. by Julius Emil Wihlfahrt,
> 1915. Presented with the compliments of The Fleischmann Co.
> This is a promo piece for Fleischmann's yeast, originally published 1905.
> It was written for commercial bakers, & all the recipes are in commercial
> quantities.
>
> Cindy/Sincgiefu
Mine came from an estate whose library was sold to Ball's Books in Norman,
OK. Cathy Ball generally gives me first refusal on cookbooks and I latched
onto it. It is valuable to me, because it provides information about
producing dough in large quantities.
Of particular interest to historical cooks are the recipes and comments on
"brake" doughs.
I hope you get permission to Web the text.
Bear
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:43:00 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Intro and Bread Request
At 4:11 PM -0800 10/28/98, Donna Hrynkiw wrote:
>Greetings to this gathering of folks from Elizabeth Braidwood of An Tir,
>newly subscribed to this list.
...
>What I would like to request from you is to drop me a note when you run
>across a reference to medieval flour, bread or baking in your wanderings;
>references to bread (especially if they're describing it), pictures
>of bakers and ovens, millers and mills, references to baking techniques
>(rising/fermenting, frequency of baking, etc), well, you get the idea.
We have two period bread recipes in our _Miscellany_, one from Platina's
description of making bread (15th c. Italian) and one from a 16th c. Indian
source for chapatis and similar breads. We also have the Rastons recipe
which Cindy Renfrow mentioned. If you don't have a paper copy of the
Miscellany, the 6th edition (we're now up to the 8th in hardcopy) is webbed
at:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html
Do you know Wulfric the Mad Baker/Jeremy Fletcher from this area (Southern
Shores, central West Kingdom)? He has been collecting baking info, and even
has his own baker's marks: little metal images you put under your dough as
it is baked, so that the finished loaf has your mark baked into the bottom.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:11:26 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Soup Bowls
> You speak of leaking bowls. At Pennsic, a merchant, called _The Bread
> Bowl_ (go figure) makes several kinds of stew and serves them to
> customers. Some sit down in the food court to eat, but many just wander
> through the merchants, holding their bowls and eating. As there aren't
> dribbly trails all over Pennsic, there must be some way to keep the bowls
> from leaking for, say, 45 minutes?
>
> Allison
Wet your hands when shaping the loaf. Like working clay, this helps fill in
weak spots and it forms a hard, even crust. It's not as tasty as some
crusts, but it should be less prone to leakage.
From some of the other posts, I would leave a good amount of bread inside
the bowl to absorb excess liquid and I would consider using a thickened stew
rather than a thin broth.
It's getting to be good soup weather, so it might be worthwhile to run up a
couple batches of bread bowls and test them fresh and at two and four days.
Bear
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:08:30 -0500
From: Christi Redeker <Christi.Redeker at digital.com>
Subject: SC - SC RE: Bread soup Bowls
On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, LYN M PARKINSON wrote:
> Bear,
> You speak of leaking bowls. At Pennsic, a merchant, called _The Bread
> Bowl_ (go figure) makes several kinds of stew and serves them to
> customers. [...]
> As there aren't
> dribbly trails all over Pennsic, there must be some way to keep the bowls
> from leaking for, say, 45 minutes?
> Allison
An option to get the crust so it doesn't leak is to brush the dough with egg
white (I add a bit of garlic to mine to add flavor to the crust). I have
made many soup and dip bowls this way. You also have to make sure that you
don't pull all the bread of the inside, they will leak much faster if you
don't leave enough bread in them.
Murkial
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:32:03 -0800
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Soup Bowls
Bear, Keeper of the Cathedral Ovens, writes:
> Warning: Edible bread doughs will leak if you put a lot of liquid in them.
> If they are dried out (4 days old like trenchers) they will absorb more
> liquid, but they will still leak. Put the bread bowl inside a regular bowl.
> That's more fun than soup dribbling off the table
What we always did with these was, after cutting off the tops and scooping
them out, we lightly brushed the insides of the "bowls" with a little olive
oil and put them back in the oven for a while (like, 20 minutes or more). The
bread, while still deliciously edible, is now crunchy and much sturdier and
will hold longer (but the just-in-case plate underneath is *always* a good idea!) and the crumbs can always be used as a period thickener for your soup/stew...:-)
- k
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:49:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Hrynkiw <donna at Kwantlen.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Stacie wrote:
> I like no love to bake bread. Does anyone have good bread recipes, is there
> a good webpage for old fashioned bread recipes? etc...I'm looking for the
> kind that mother's would make 8-)
> Stacie
I too am relatively new to this list and an enthusiastic bread-baker.
I can't say I've found any really good websites dedicated to old-world or
traditional bread, although some of the sourdough sites come close. I would
like to recommend a few books though:
The Village Baker: Classic Regional Breads from Europe and America
by Joe Ortiz, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, 1993, ISBN 0-89815-916-4
World Sourdoughs from Antiquity
by Ed Wood, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, 1996, ISBN 0-89815-843-5
Elizabeth
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:26:12 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread
> >I discovered late last night that there is a Roman treatise on baking, which
> >presumably gives recipes for 60 different kinds of bread. If I can find a
> >copy, it will give me a pre-period reference to compare with period and
> >post-period references.
>
> Anyway, I would LOVE to hear of a Roman treatise on baking. The set of
> Apician recipes has nothing on bread or cakes. Any pointers to this tome
> would have me jumping with joy for weeks, and have a general feeling of
> well-being throughout the year.
>
> Glenda.
Rereading the paragraph from Toussaint-Samat's History of Food when I am not
seeing double from fatigue, I find that the recipes may not be in the
treatise. As a direct quote:
"Some 50 recipes are known, although Chrysippus of Tyana, in a treatise on
bread making, lists another 30 kinds without further description. The fact
that this list is included in the treatise shows that baker's did not
confine themselves to making bread."
You now know the extent of my knowledge about the treatise. I hope to be
able to improve on it soon.
Since you have an interest in Roman cooking, you might look into Ilaria
Gozzini Giacosa, A Taste of Ancient Rome, University of Chicago Press,
(published in both the US and the UK). The main source is Apicius, but it
has recipes from other sources.
Cato and Atheanaeus are supposed to have commented on Roman baking.
On a slightly different note, Toussaint-Samat's History of Food is available
in hardcover from Barnes and Noble at $19.95. That is less than the price
of the softcover edition.
Bear
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:51:10 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Re: Can Someone Explain This?
<snip>
>Let's look at some of the woodcuts Cindy has put up, and see what we can
>see?
>what the h**l is the URL fr those pictures, again?
<snip>
Hello! The url is http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html
I have several pictures of bakers with peels, some of which are posted on
Greg's site. I'll refer to them here by their file names so you'll know
which ones I mean - not all of these are posted on Greg's site. If you want
copies, email me.
The 'Assize of bread' picture shows a peel made of a pole with a
'home-plate'-shaped board attached to the end. The flat part is big enough
for at least 2 large raised pies (maybe 15 inches wide).
'Baker 3' (from Liber de Assisa Panis, 1293 -- admittedly a crude picture),
has a peel that may be carved all in one piece. Again, it is squared-off,
like 'home-plate'. The flattened end looks very small, about 6 to 8 inches
wide, enough to fit one loaf.
'Baker 4' (from Eygentliche Beschreibun Aller Stande auff Erden, 1568) uses
a peel with a round flat end. It is wide enough to fit one large loaf
(maybe 12 inches), just wide enough to fit in the narrow oven door.
'Baker 1' (from the Shepherd's Great Calendar, 15th c.) has a peel with a
rectangular flat end. It holds 8 small loaves & again is slightly narrower
than the oven door, maybe 8 to 12 inches wide.
'Large Kitchen' (from Il Cuoco Segreto di Papa Pio V, 1570) shows a peel
leaning against the far wall. It is clearly made of 2 pieces -- a long
pole, split at one end & attached to a broad (paddle-shaped) flat piece.
'Street Bakers' uses a stubby peel. From the angle at which she is holding
it, it may well be a shovel serving double-duty, or some type of hook --
the picture is unclear.
There are also at least 6 pictures of peels in the back of The Medieval
Health Handbook (Tacuinam Sanitatis) in the b/w section.
The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti (another version of Tacuinam
Sanitatis) has the biggest-bladed peels of all, with oval ends that fit 2
large loaves.
I searched high & low for a picture I saw of a baker with a dish fastened
to the end of his peel -- the BROAD end, btw. But I can't find it. The
filling was poured into the dish & used to quickly fill coffins that were
already baking in the oven, so that the oven would not lose too much heat.
My dictionary says the word 'peel' comes into ME from MF from the Latin
'pala', meaning shovel.
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:02:08 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Mustard & Soughdough Books
Two titles on the History of ....
A Dash of Mustard Katie Holder & Jane Newdick History of mustard from
Roman times to modern, 50 recipes etc
World of sourdoughs from antiquety ed Wood 1996
All these interesting books ...so little time...so unfair !
Mel
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:40:39 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Hartshorn
David/Cariadoc wrote:
>My memory from past discussions is that hartshorn appears in period,
>but not as leavening; I think it was used in jellies.
Didn't we have a discussion some months back about the "period-ness" of
hartshorn? I thought I/we had found a reference to it in the Sabina
Welcher (sp??) cookbook. I can't find my copy right now or I'd look it
up. Anyone else have a copy? My memory says that it was with some
type of cookie...
Alys Katharine
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:59:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Hartshorn
Ammonium carbonate (hartshorn) would be the leavening agent.
Hart's horn (as in deer horn) would be more likely in the production of gelatin.
Except that this may be a six of one and a half dozen of the other type of
argument.
>From Waverly Root, FOOD;
"hartshorn, powdered deer antlers, the medieval precursor of baking powder,
which some German and Scandinavian cooks think they are still using, but the
modern version is a counterfeit, ammonium carbonate.Ó
Bear
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:29:54 -0600
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - 14th Century Food
Hartshorn is used today in Germany, in packets of 'backpulver' which just
means baking + powder. I can't find hartshorn in any of my dictionaries,
which aren't the greatest for food terms, but if anybody who does German
can find it, that may be the corpus in which to look.
Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:17:21 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: SC - Re: hartshorn
Hello! Someone was asking for info about hartshorn. I found 4 substances
by that name. These definitions are from the glossary & appendix to A Sip
Through Time:
"Hart's horn~~shavings of the antlers of the male deer, used to make
gelatine. Also the name of a chemical compound, ammonium carbonate, used
in medicines and commercially in baking powder and many other substances.
The name Hart's horn also applies to two plants...
Hart's horn.
*1-Pulsatilla species, Ranunculaceae... Pasque-flower, Anemone,
Wind-flower. Pulsatilla was once used as a sedative and for diseases of
the reproductive organs; it is the source of Anemonin (a substance used
additionally as an antispasmodic, and for asthma, whooping cough, and
bronchitis), and of Ranunculin, which breaks down to form toxic
protoanemonin...
2-Plantago species, Plantaginaceae... Gerard (p. 346) shows a type of
plantain which he calls Hart's horn. Plantains are used for salads and
potherbs."
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:56:49 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks- olive oil and bread?
Francesca Barozzi wrote:
> I have a question. I would like to have bread and olive oil in a
> dish for bread dipping for part of one course at a feast. Did people in
> the middle ages dip their bread in olive oil the way we might today? Has
> anyone found documention for this? Also if they did dip bread in olive
> oil, would they ever put parmesan and pepper in the olive oil or did they
> season they bread and dip in olive oil. Also, garlic has been around a
> long while, would people have roasted it and spread it on bread? These
> are probably dumb questions, but I wanted to ask in a place where I can
> get a quick and accurate answer. Thank you for your help!
So, uhhh, it sounds to _me_ like you're looking for some period spreads
for bread.
The short answer is that, so far as I've been able to document, bread in
peroid Europe is eaten either unsauced or as a sop (dunked in wine or
other beverage or served under a sauced dish or pottage, or as part of a
pudding-y thing such as wastels yfarced or rastons).
There may be some exceptions to this in period al-Islam, where bread
scoops might have been known (I'd have to look), but more likely it
would be eaten out of hand as an accompaniment to other foods, or
stuffed with fillings like a pasty, or used in a sort of breadcrumb
pilaf/pudding called tharid.
I do remember seeing _somewhere_ an English account of the odd practices
of immigrant Heugenots in the mid-17th century, among which are their
habit of sending their children out of the house in the mornings with a
chunk of bread smeared with butter in the Flemish fashion. This might
indicate a possible tradition of spreading butter on bread in period
Flanders, but we don't know how far back it really goes.
Re roasted garlic: I haven't seen an account of the practice of roasting
garlic and spreading it on bread, but there's an English dish called
aquapatys, it is garlic cloves boiled (in milk???) and served on toasts,
IIRC.
I'm sorry that I've been unable to think of anything closer to what you
had in mind. It may turn out that there is some kind of period
bruschetta or focaccio made with olive oil, cheese, etc., on top, but
I'm not aware of it if there is...although it seems kind of logical.
Adamantius
¯stgardr, East
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:19:00 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - trencher history guesses
> >>In the towns, the average bread use was about 2 pound per person a
> day.<<
>
> Bear, is this a scribal error? I am one of the biggest bread eaters I
> know and I don't come close to that amount. Maybe 2 pounds per week. I
> love bread with gravy, or honey, or jam, or soup, or....
>
> Allison
No it's taken from Scully's comments about several studies of medieval town
life. Apparently, cereals in the form of bread, beer and porridge were the
staples of the European diet.
IIRC, there was a footnote else where in The Art of Cookery In the Middle
Ages which placed per capita meat consumption in one of the towns at about
46 kilos per year.
Of course both Braudel and Scully are looking at the Late Medieval Period,
when the standard of living in Europe was the highest it would be before
modern times.
If I weren't eating much of anything else, I can put away two pounds of
bread a day easily. It's the gallon of beer that would do me in.
Bear
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:52:29 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - trencher history guesses
> Wasn't this 2 pounds of bread per day plus a gallon of beer part of
> a workman's *wages*, and therefore expected to be taken home & shared with
> his family? Also, was not the beer more than likely small beer?
>
> Cindy
"Recent historians have found enough data to let them estimate the usual
consumption of bread in the late Middle Ages, and their figures for various
countries are surprisingly similar. In lordly English households at this
time, for instance, a standard daily food ration allowed every individual
between roughly two and three pounds of bread and about a gallon of ale.
Interestingly, the same allowance applied in the provisioning of castle
garrisons and for inmates in hospitals. In France for each of the 3500
residents of Chambery the amount of wheat that entered the town - to be
consumed ultimately and mainly, we have to assume, in the form of bread -
was 24 litres per month, that is to say approximately .8 litres of wheat
(enough for a two-pound loaf of bread) per citizen per day. Florentines of
the fourteenth century likewise averaged about two pounds of bread per day.
Francoise Desportes has found that even by the beginning of the thirteenth
century Paris had seventy water mills alone, without counting the windmills
sited on the summits of its hills! Such figures as these support the
observation that bread was the basis of the medieval diet."
- -- Terence Scully, The Art of Cookery in the Middle Ages, Boydell
paperback edition, 1997, pg. 36-37.
The information about meals as part of wages I've seen does not include
quantities.
Steve Pursley (Barat FitzWalter Reynolds) whose Mead Page you reference in a link from your webpage, produced a period small beer from German monestary records. I don't think I could survive a quart of it, much less a gallon a day.
Bear
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 06:32:56 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - period bread comments
Hi all from Anne-Marie
It is my considered opinion that the medieval concept of perfect bread
would be WonderBread. White. Fluffy. Sans crunchy bits.
I figure this because of all the descriptions of period bread we have in
cookbooks and other places. The few recipes we have for bread specifically
state to take FINE flour. There's a recipe for bread called "pouft".
Manchets are described as being of fine clear flour. (Check out Elisabeth
Davids English Bread and Bread cookery for a good survey of the info on
bread in our period).
Treatiese on agricultures specifically state that you are bolt your flour
(the process by which germ and chaff and the like are removed) multiple
times. Once or twice is for ordinary bread. More than that, (ie whiter and
purer, most definately not whole wheat) for fine manchet for the lords
table, more yet for the Host for Mass.
Sure the peasants might have eaten course textured bread with all kinds of
bits and stuff in the flour, but as the germ and chaff were recovered as
animal feed, I doubt that it was the norm (if you bolt it, a simple enough
procedure, not only would you get "better" flour, but your critters would
get a bit of grain in their diet.)
There's mentions of folks eating bread with pea flour and chestnut flour,
etc, but that's usually referred to as famine food, ie when theres no more
wheat. By the way, pea flour makes tasty bread :). Though it wouldnt be
appropriate to serve it at a great feast, of course. If you're that short
on supplies, what are you doing holding a feast for 150 people, anyway?? :)
I believe that the SCA convention of "medieval people didnt eat as nice of
stuff" is just that, an SCA convention. Right up there with how everyone
drinks hot wine with spices all the time. (I've only actually seen recipes
for hot wine beverages that are considered medicinal. I found a hint of a
Spanish one, but need to track it down. Hot spiced wine, however does not
seem to be as ubiquitous as SCA people make it out to be. Go figure!)
When I make bread for medieval cookery, I use unbleached white flour, as
I'm cooking for a noble house. (of course there's the whole question as to
whether or not the cook would be baking bread, but we wont go into that
here :)). I need to do some digging as to what type of wheat exactly a 15th
century Franco Flemish gal would have had access to (gluten/protien and ash
content). King Arthur Flour has all kinds of flours broken out so once I
have that info I should be able to be pretty close to right.
anyway, that's my take on it...
- --AM
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:40:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Hrynkiw <donna at Kwantlen.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: SC - period bread comments
Greetings from Elizabeth Braidwood,
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com wrote:
> Try experimenting with spelt flour. I think this may also answer our
>question concerning poundage. A machine-made loaf of spelt bread weighs
>considerably more than the same size loaf made from regular wheat or whole
>wheat flour.
> Wolfmother
I can confirm this statment. Through a pleasant coincidance, I made
two batches of bread yesterday using the same recipe, but used whole grain
wheat flour for one (ground it myself from the berry) and whole grain
spelt for the other (ground by the producer). The spelt was noticeably
heavier than the wheat.
It also rose (raised?) faster than the whole wheat -- to the point where
although I had timed the batches for baking a half-hour apart, they were
both ready for the oven at the same time. Odd, that.
E.B.
==================
| Mistress Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood, Northern Region, An Tir
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:59:34 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Semmel?
> My question is about an ingredient that is repeatedly mentioned,