bread-stuffed-msg - 9/7/09
Period stuffed breads - Breads stuffed and baked with various mixtures. Rastons.
NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, Bread-Hist-art, pretzels-msg, ovens-msg, pasta-msg, butter-msg, flour-msg, rice-msg, grains-msg.
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Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:48:52 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Rastons (was: dumb Bread trencher Question)
At 10:39 PM -0600 11/7/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
>To my knowledge, there is no evidence that bread bowls were used in period.
>However, rastons come close. Rastons are a white bread fortified with eggs
>on which the top has been carefully cut away, the soft inner bread scooped
>out, crumbled and fried with spices, then returned to the loaf and to top
>placed on before serving.
>
>Bear
My rastons recipe (from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books) calls for you
to crumble the inside of the bread while keeping the sides and bottom crust
whole, adding butter to the crumbs and mixing, putting the top back on, and
rebaking the whole thing briefly. No frying and no spices. Where is your
recipe from?
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:03:44 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Rastons (was: dumb Bread trencher Question)
> My rastons recipe (from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books) calls for you
> to crumble the inside of the bread while keeping the sides and bottom crust
> whole, adding butter to the crumbs and mixing, putting the top back on, and
> rebaking the whole thing briefly. No frying and no spices. Where is your
> recipe from?
>
> Elizabeth/Betty Cook
No recipe. The only reference I had handy was a set of general notes. I'm
running some comparisons between various authors. This particular entry is
from the general commentary in Sass's To The King's Taste.
As you raised the question, I located my copy of Sass and checked the raston
recipe, rather than the commentary. It is from Harleian and is as you
stated. Sass interprets this as mixing the butter and crumbs in the skillet
used to melt the butter.
Bear
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:44:12 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Rastons (was: dumb Bread trencher Question)
On the topic of "bowls as containers", here's a 16th century
Spanish recipe for stuffed bread.
The recipe is from a 1971 reprint of the 1599 edition of _Libro Del
Arte De Cozina_ by Diego Granado. The translation is mine; feel
free to play with it.
To Stuff a Large Bread
Take a round bread of two pounds, cooked the day before [1], and
make a round opening in the middle of the bottom crust, and take
out all the crumb in such a manner that nothing remains but the
crust, which you must scrape on the outside before taking out the
crumb. Have a composition made of a cooked capon breast
pounded in a mortar with the yolks of hard-cooked eggs, and
marzipan paste, and mostachones [2], mixing everything with
raisins and chopped herbs, and raw eggs, cinnamon, and saffron, a
good deal. Stuff the bread and fasten the opening with the crust
that you took out, and put said bread in a proportionately-sized
copper stewpot, in such a manner that it is neither very big or very
small, with fatty broth, and have it cook gently for the space of an
hour and a half, and when the bread has swollen, it is cooked.
Drain the broth from the vessel and put the bread on the plate with
dexterity, for otherwise it cannot be removed intact.
You can cook it in another manner, and it is this: having stuffed the
bread, put it in a napkin or cloth [3], and being fastened put it in a
little caldron with boiling broth and let it cook held with a little cord
fastening the napkin, so that with the boiling it does not go hither
and thither: the bread being cooked in one of the aforesaid
manners, serve it hot with sugar and cinnamon, and a little of the
fatty broth on top. In this bread can be cooked little birds with their
insides cleaned, and entrails, and testicles of a young goat.
[1] "de un dia" -- I interpret that as one day old.
[2] "mostachones" -- my modern dictionary compares them to
gingerbread, and my guide to Spanish cuisine says that they are
for dipping in coffee or hot chocolate.
[3] "estame~na" This is a cloth of wool or serge, used in many
other recipes as a strainer.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:21:08 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Stuff inside bread (was: Bread Soup Bowls)
At 10:46 PM -0800 11/10/98, Laura C Minnick wrote:
>... In one area, there is
>two men and a woman looking over a crenellated edge at the scene below,
>and one of the men is holding in his hand what I can only describe as a
>Hostess Fruit Pie- you know, the half-moon shape, filled, and crimped
>along the rounded edge. Given the particular contortions his face is in,
>it looks as though he's eating, so I would gather he's nibbling on his
>pie. What might be in the pie, I don't know.
Maybe this?
Ryschewys Closed and Fried
Two Fifteenth Century p. 45/97
Take figs, and grind them small in a mortar with a little oil, and grind
with them cloves and maces; and then take it up into a vessel, and cast
thereto pines, saunders and raisons of corinth and minced dates, powdered
pepper, canel, salt, saffron; then take fine paste of flour and water,
sugar, saffron and salt, and make fair cakes thereof; then roll thine stuff
in thine hand and couch it in the cakes and cut it, and fold them in
ryshews, and fry them up in oil; and serve forth hot. [end of original,
spelling modernized]
25 black mission figs
2 t oil
1 t cloves
1 t mace
1/4 c pine nuts
1/4 t saunders
1/3 c currants
5 1/2 oz dates
1/8 t pepper
1 t cinnamon
1/4 t salt
4 threads saffron
pastry: 2 c flour, 1/2 c water, 1 T sugar, 1/8 t salt, 1 thread saffron
more oil for frying
Chop dates. Grind figs with oil cloves, and mace, then mix with rest of
filling ingredients. Mix pastry ingredients; take a lump of dough and roll
out into a flat circle about 4"-5" across. Put some filling on, fold the
circle in half and seal the edges. Fry them in oil, flipping them over when
the first side is done.
I think some versions of this recipe call them "rischews is lent" which
implies that there is a meat-day version as well, though I don't have a
recipe.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:10:03 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Stuff inside bread (was: Bread Soup Bowls)
At 12:10 AM -0500 11/11/98, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>What did period folk do for food on the go? Did they always sit down to
>eat? We can't seem to find proof of sandwiches or breadbowls or flatbreads
>with meats in them (such as Greek Gyros or tortillas).
>
>Now, Elizabeth and Bear have brought up rastons recently. This was a bread
>with stuff stuffed inside it, but it appears to be only buttered bread.
>Is there evidence of anything else being stuffed or cooked inside bread
>which would then fit into the same niche as modern sandwiches?
Here is an Islamic recipe for precisely that.
Recipe for the Barmakiyya
Andalusian p. A-9
It is made with hens, pigeons, ring doves, small birds, or lamb. Take what
you have of it, then clean it and cut it and put it in a pot with salt and
onion, pepper, coriander and lavender or cinnamon, some murri naqi, and
oil. Put it over a gentle fire until it is nearly done and the sauce is
dried. Take it out and fry it with mild oil without overdoing it, and leave
it aside. Then take fine flour and semolina, make a well-made dough with
yeast, and if it has some oil it will be more flavorful. Then stretch this
out into a thin loaf and inside this put the fried and cooked meat of these
birds, cover it with another thin loaf, press the ends together and place
it in the oven, and when the bread is done, take it out. It is very good
for journeying; make it with fish and that can be used for journeying too.
[end of original]
Note: The Barmecides were a family of Persian viziers who served some of
the early Abbasid Caliphs, in particular Haroun al-Rashid, and were famed
for their generosity.
1/2 c sourdough 3 T olive oil for dough 1 1/2 t (lavender or) cinnamon
3/4 c water 1 lb boned chicken or lamb 1 t salt
1 1/2 c white flour 10 oz chopped onion 1 T murri (see the
_Miscellany_)
1 1/2 c semolina 1/2 t pepper 3 T olive oil
(1 t salt in dough) 1 t coriander 3 T more olive oil for frying
Cut the meat fairly fine (approximately 1/4" slices, then cut them up),
combine in a 3 quart pot with chopped onion, 1 t salt, spices, murri, and 3
T oil. Cook over a medium low to medium heat about an hour. Cover it at the
beginning so it all gets hot, at which point the onion and meat release
their juices; remove the cover and cook until the liquid is gone, about 30
minutes. Then heat 3 T oil in a large frying pan on a medium high burner,
add the contents of the pot, fry over medium high heat about five minutes.
Stir together flour, semolina, 1 t salt. Gradually stir in 3 T oil. Combine
3/4 c water, 1/2 c sourdough. Stir this into the flour mixture and knead to
a smooth dough (which should only take a few minutes). If you do not have
sourdough, omit it; since the recipes does not give the dough much time to
rise, the sourdough probably does not have a large effect on the
consistency of the dough.
Divide the dough in four equal parts. Take two parts, turn them out on a
floured board, squeeze and stretch each (or use a rolling pin) until it is
at least 12" by 5". Put half the filling on one, put the other on top,
squeeze the edges together to seal. Repeat with the other two parts of the
dough and the rest of the filling. Bake on a cookie sheet at 350¡ for 40
minutes.
For the fish version, start with 1 1/4 lb of fish (we used salmon). If it
is boneless, proceed as above, shortening the cooking time to about 35
minutes; it is not necessary to cut up the fish fine, since it will crumble
easily once it is cooked. If your fish has bones, put it on top of the oil,
onions, spices etc., in the largest pieces that will fit in the pot, cover
the pot, and cook for about 10-15 minutes, until the fish is almost ready
to fall apart; in effect, it is being steamed by the liquid produced from
the onions and by its own liquid. Take out the fish, bone it, return to the
pot, and cook uncovered about 30 minutes until the liquid is mostly gone.
Continue as above.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:28:28 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Rastons experiment
Sass used 1/2 cup of butter to what I believe is a 2 lb. loaf.
She also says reheat at 350 degrees for a few minutes. I translate that as
being between 5 and 10 minutes.
Bear
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:36:15 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Rastons experiment
> . What did you serve this with? Sounds like it
> would be best with stewed meat and onions poured over a serving size
> portion.
>
> Ras
The recipe for rastons uses an egg enriched dough. It might have been used
as you suggest, but I think it may be a predecessor to fruit breads.
There is supposed to be a recipe earlier than this one for "Wastels yfarced"
(IIRC) which I do not have and may shed some light on how stuffed breads
were served.
Bear
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:01:39 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Rastons experiment
"Decker, Terry D." wrote:
> There is supposed to be a recipe earlier than this one for "Wastels yfarced"
> (IIRC) which I do not have and may shed some light on how stuffed breads
> were served.
If I remember correctly (hah!) Wastels yfarced are boiled in a cloth
like a pudding. The stuffing is slightly different, too.
Adamantius
¯stgardr, East
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:11:03 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Rastons experiment
>The recipe for rastons uses an egg enriched dough. It might have been used
>as you suggest, but I think it may be a predecessor to fruit breads.
>
>There is supposed to be a recipe earlier than this one for "Wastels yfarced"
>(IIRC) which I do not have and may shed some light on how stuffed breads
>were served.
>
>Bear
Hello! I also use 1/2 cup clarified butter, & re-heat the bread in a warm
oven for about 10 minutes. The problem I have with this recipe is that it
is very messy to eat. The buttered crumbs fall all over the place, & leave
greasy stains.
The recipe for Wastels yfarced (Forme of Cury, p. 72):
Take a Wastel and hewe out [th]e crinnes. take ayren & shepis talow &
[th]e crinne of [th]e same Wastell powdor fort & salt wt Safron and Raisons
corance. & medle alle [th]ise yfere & do it in [th]e Wastel. close it &
bynde it fast togidre. and see[th] it wel.
As you can see, this one is tied & boiled like a pudding.
Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:33:01 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Rastons experiment
At 11:30 PM -0500 11/24/98, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>I just tried my hand at making Rastons using the following message posted
>here recently:
....
>I started with a nine inch round sourdough loaf from the deli area of my local
>grocery. It was several days old when I got around to making it. I would think
>this would actually be more likely than a freshly baked loaf, anyway.
...
>I cut off the top. I had originally thought I could crumble the bread inside
>the crust, but ended up scooping it out into a bowl first, crumbling it there
>and mixing it back into the bread while adding margarine (I didn't have any
>butter). I first cooked it for six minutes at 400 degrees. When I checked it,
>the center was still cool and the margarine unmelted. So I put it back in
>the oven at 200 degrees for about 15 minutes more. I cooked it in a cake pan
>on the top rack of a gas oven.
>
>The end result was good, but not great. When I tried to cut it, the crust
>burst into pieces. I don't think that is what I wanted.
Here is the original recipe plus our version out of the Miscellany. Note
that the bread dough has sugar and eggs in it, which your sourdough bread
probably lacks. Note also that since you are told to bake the bread and
then to cut it, etc, with no indication of a break, several-day-old bread
is probably not more accurate.
Rastons
Two Fifteenth Century p. 52/63
Take fayre Flowre, and the whyte of Eyroun, and the yolk, a lytel; than
take Warme Berme, and putte al thes to-gederys, and bete hem to-gederys
with thin hond tyl it be schort and thikke y-now, and caste Sugre y-now
ther-to, and thenne lat reste a whyle; than kaste in a fayre place in the
oven, and late bake y-now; and then with a knyf cutte yt round a-boue in
maner of a crowne, and kepe the crust that thou kyttyst; and than pyke al
the cromys with-ynne to-gederys, an pike hem smal with thyn knyf, and saue
the sydys and al the cruste hole with-owte; and than caste ther-in
clarifiyd Botor, and mille the cromes and the botor to-gederes, and keuere
it a-gen with the cruste, that thou kyttest a-way; than putte it in the
ovyn agen a lytil tyme; and than take it out, and serue it forth. [end of
original; thorns replaced by th]
2 1/4 c flour
2 egg whites
1 egg yolk
1/2 T dried yeast (mixed with 1/2 c water)
1/2 c sugar
1 c butter
After mixing all ingredients except for butter, let the dough rise 45
minutes to an hour. Mold the dough on a greased cookie sheet, let rise a
little more. Bake at 350¡ about 1 hour. Cut off top as described, mix
insides of loaf with melted butter, and replace top. Second baking is about
5 minutes at the same temperature.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:00:44 -0500
From: MAUREEN.L.MARTIN at DFAS.MIL
Subject: SC - I Fired My Bread!
Now that I have (more or less) gotten all put back together from Lilies
I have time to report on my adventure in baking bread with real fire.
But first let me take this opportunity to say that Lilies' weather this
year was the best ever since I have been attending (6 years): Days in
the 70's and nights in the 50's with low (for Missouri) humidity;
perfect camping weather (for those of us who brought blankets)! And
only 1 day of rain (I'm not counting the nights)! We should be so lucky
again. I am presuming the Weather Gods felt mildly guilty for last year and
were trying to make things up to us--contributions must have been down.
And now for our story...
I started about 11:00 a.m. stoking the fire. Used mostly Pin Oak
kindling and some mystery logs someone brought. Our fire pit was
roughly 3' by 3' by 18" deep. There was a little keyhole notch, 1' by
1' by 6" deep, dug on the up-wind side.
Fire Pit Illustration (this may not come out O.K., but you can kinda get
the picture):
|---------------|
| |
| \-----|
| | <---Nitch for coals
| /-----|
| |
|---------------|
Once the fire was going I mixed up the dough using Cindy Renfrow's
redaction of Rastons in *Thousand Eggs* (Cindy, may I print your recipe
on this list?). Since I forgot modern measuring implements I fell back on
the time tested method of Guesstimation (I used eating implements as
rough measures).
Since temperature was only in the low 70's by the time I finished mixing
it, to keep it warm and cozy I covered it with a damp towel and put it
in the (normally) hot (but now just uncomfortably warm) old mundane tent
I was using as a storage closet. It took 2ish hours to rise to double in
bulk. I punched it down, shaped it into a ball and placed it on a
greased 9" stoneware pie plate, that being a close approximation to a
stone hearth AND the right size to fit into my little Coleman-type
oven. I returned the mass with dampened towel to my improvised
"proofing oven" for another rise. Since by now it was honestly hot in
the tent the dough rose much more quickly this time. Also, I didn't
quite let it double in size since I was afraid that with the spring in
the oven it would grow too large for its baking confines: my oven is
roughly one foot square.
In the mean time, I kept the fire stoked; the neighbors cooked lunch on
it and I placed my oven on the ground over its little niche in the dirt
to warm up. Conveniently, the fire was sufficiently burned down to
coals when the bread was ready to bake, and the pit was nice and hot.
After removing the oven, I took a shovel and rounded up all of the coals
that were ready (which were most of them), scooping them into the niche
the oven had been on. I replaced the oven over the niche with its coals and
put my little 9" bun it the oven. I then sat impatiently in front of the
oven's glass window to watch the show. After 3 minutes of the wind
switching directions and blowing smoke from a smoldering bit of wood
into my face I gave it up and puttered around camp for half an hour,
checking the bread frequently.
Its initial spring was good, but things slowed down after that, I think
because the breeze came up, or maybe because the coals were too far gone
after the first 20 minutes. At any rate, its size was good, but it was
too pale. By now it was time to stoke the fire for dinner, so I dropped
some more mystery wood on the pit and built up a nice blaze behind the
oven. And, Lo, the bread began to take on some color! I turned it
once, obtaining a nice, fairly even, golden color. The texture was a
little moist and could have used a little more time in the cooker, but I
was afraid at the rate it was browning it would just burn if I left it
in longer.
The recipe calls for scooping out the guts and mixing the cut up bits
with clarified butter. Unfortunately, I forgot the butter and was
forced to use (shudder) Shedd's Spread. It tasted fine anyway. I was
supposed to wait for the loaf to cool before I gutted it, but I forgot
that part in the excitement of the moment and did it while it was (very)
warm. I might have gotten a better texture if I had waited until it was
cool.
After replacing the crumbs in the cavity of the crust, the loaf sat
around and got quite cool waiting for dinner to be served. However, after
returning it to the oven for a few minutes we ate the bread for dinner.
My camp mates seemed surprised but they pronounced it not only edible
but "Very Good." However, for my personal palate I think I will add some
salt next time even though none of the original recipes called for it.
That's all for now. Let me know what you think. I plan to do this again;
it was so easy! I want to build an earthen oven at home and play with that.
Does anyone have any specs on something like that?
Melisande Saucheverel
Calontir
Barony of Forgotten Sea
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:17:37 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - I Fired My Bread!
Bravo! Here you are (I changed it a bit in the 2nd. edition):
Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis
xxv. Rastons. Take fayre Flowre, & [th]e whyte of Eyroun, & [th]e
[3]olke, a lytel; [th]an take Warme Berme, & putte al [th]es to-gederys, &
bete hem to-gederys with [th]in hond tyl it be schort & [th]ikke y-now, &
caste Sugre y-now [th]er-to, & [th]enne lat reste a whyle; [th]an kaste in
a fayre place in [th]e oven, & late bake y-now; & [th]en with a knyf cutte
yt round a-boue in maner of a crowne, & kepe [th]e crust [th]at [th]ou
kyttyst; & [th]an pyke al [th]e cromys with-ynne to-gederys, an pike hem
smal with [th]in knyf, & saue [th]e sydys & al [th]e cruste hole with-owte;
& [th]an caste [th]er-in clarifiyd Boter, & Mille [th]e crome3 & [th]e
botere to-gedere[3], & keuere it a-[3]en with [th]e cruste, [th]at [th]ou
kyttest a-way; [th]an putte it in [th]e ovyn a[3]en a lytil tyme; & [th]an
take it out, & serue it forth.
25. Rastons. Take fair Flour, & the white of Eggs, & the yolk, a little;
then take Warm Barm, & put all these together, & beat them together with
thine hand till it is short & thick enough, & cast Sugar enough thereto, &
then let rest a while; then cast in a fair place in the oven, & let bake
enough; & then with a knife cut it round above in manner of a crown, & keep
the crust that thou cut; & then pick all the crumbs within together, and
pick them small with thine knife, & save the sides & all the crust whole
without; & then cast therein clarified Butter, & Mix the crumbs & the
butter together, & cover it again with the crust, that thou cuttest away;
then put it in the oven again a little time; & then take it out, & serve it
forth.
The ale yeast or "barm" called for in this recipe is a solution of active
yeast skimmed from working ale. Since modern commercially available beer
and ale are not active enough, extra yeast has been added here.
2 Tablespoons sugar
2 eggs, beaten
1 cup warm ale or beer (105 degrees to 115 degrees F.)
1 package yeast
3 1/2 cups bread flour
1/2 cup butter, clarified
Put 2 cups of flour and the yeast in a large mixing bowl. Add sugar. Add
ale and eggs. Stir. Add enough additional flour to make a stiff dough.
Turn out onto a floured board and knead until the dough is smooth and
elastic. Form into a round loaf and place on a greased baking sheet.
Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled in bulk. (Optional:
brush the loaf with milk for a shiny finish.) Bake at 400s F. for 25 to 30
minutes, or until the loaf sounds hollow when tapped. Remove the loaf from
the oven and place it on a wire rack. When it has cooled completely, cut
off the top crust and scoop out the center of the loaf. Cut the crumbs
into pieces and mix with the clarified butter. Put the crumb mixture back
into the loaf and cover with the top crust. Put the loaf in a warm oven
for 10 minutes to heat the butter before serving. Remove from oven and
serve hot.
Makes one large loaf. Serves 6 to 8.
(from "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", copyright 1990, 1997, Cindy Renfrow.)
Cindy
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:11:03 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: SC - OOP - Cheese Bread
Here is the "stuffed bread" recipe. Makes two long loaves
1 pkg yeast(dry or cube) I use a yeast that I get from a local boutique
bakery. They collect it, by using wine grapes and letting the natural
yeasts inoculate a starter mix. No it is not sourdough
1 tsp. Honey or sugar when I make the Italian version
1 Table spoon salt Optional, but it works better if you use it.
3 Table spoons good olive oil
3 1/2 cups flour (hard wheat, with i/2 cup of this being whole wheat flour
to approximate period flour)
2 good size leeks chopped and cooked in butter
3 of cloves of garlic finely chopped and adder to the above and cooked with
it
1 to 2 cups shredded cheese, of your choice. I use a three year old white
english cheddar like cheese, or munster.
Finely sliced cooked beef or ham, or other meats of your choice. This is
really good done with venison or game bird. (add up to 1/2 pound per loaf.
Make the bread as usual to the first raising stage. Place in a greased
bowl and let raise till double. Cut in half and place on a floured board
and roll out the dough half until about 1/2-1/4 inch thick. Sprinkle with
1/4 of cheese. Lay out the meat until the dough is covered to about 1/2
inch from all sides. arrange 1/2 of cooked vegies over meat. Top with
another 1/4 of cheese. Roll up starting with long side tucking in ends.
Place on a buttered flat pan to rise until double in bulk. Repeat with
other half of ingredients. Bake in a warmed 350 degree oven 35 minutes
until golden and it sounds hollow when tapped. Cool and serve.
L.Katherinen Mc.
Barony of Califia
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:11:23 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - stuffed breads
Yes this recipe is based on an Mediterranean recipe that appeared in a
book called the Doge's Pantry. I'm at work now and don't have the ISBN# or
the author's name handy but will post it if you want. The recipes are based
on pages found in a palace in Fluoresce Italy during a restoration. in the
middle 60's
L.Katherine Mc
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:58:22 -0500 (EST)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamly.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Foods: How to Fake It!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> What are they filled wth? Barmakiya is meat and stuff between two
> layers of bread/pastry like stuff, and Sanbusak is a fried dough
> filled with stuffing, but off hand I can't think of period recipes I
> would describe as "filled rolls." Examples?
The leftovers wrapped in bead dough mentioned in the Domostroi...
-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:01:09 -0600
From: "margaret" <m.p.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Recipes and Documentation
To: <alysk at ix.netcom.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> My first thought was that yeast-raised bread with meat stuffing didn't
> really exist in our time period, did it? Yeast-raised breads were pretty
> much post-period, weren't they? Any help with period recipes for the
> above would be appreciated.
>
> Alys Katharine
Yeast raised breads are fairly common in any culture that drinks ale. The
yeast that ferments ale is the same yeast that is used for bread. Yeast
breads with meat stuffings are a different matter. The only one I can think
of off the top of my head is a Sicilian dish presumably adopted from the
Moors.
I think the lack of recipes may stem from the fact that bread was a price
and quality controlled food in most of Europe. The standards often worked
against new and uncontrolled types of bread with feastday limitation being
put on the preparation of fancy and filled breads.
Another consideration is that breads in Medieval Europe were baked and used
or sold over several days. Meat stuffed yeast bread is more perishable than
other bread or hard shelled pies.
Bear
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:29:32 -0600
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question pardon if it has been asked
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> So would it not be a logical thought that other stuff may have >
> been presented this way? [as Rastons. Bread crumbs hollowed out of a loaf, mixed with butter and put back in the loaf]
Well, the first thing that comes to mind are the lobster rolls.
To make Lobster-Loaves. PICK out all the Meat of three little
Lobsters shred it a little; take a piece of Butter, and brown it with
Flour in a Sauce-pan: the stir in a very little Onion and Parsley
shred very fine, and put in a little Pepper, a Spoonful of Anchovy
Liquor, three or four Spoonfuls of good Gravy, three Yolks of Eggs
well beat; stir all these over the Fire in the brown Butter, then put
in the Lobster, and stir it a little together: Take three French
Rolls, and cut a round Piece off the top of each, and pick out the
Crumb, but do not Break Holes through the Sides of the Bread; fill up
the Roll with the Mixture you have prepared; put on the Piece of Top
you cut off, close and tie them round with a Piece of Tape: Make some
Dripping boiling hot in your Frying-pan; and when you have just dipt
the Roll in Milk, throw it in to the Pan-full of scalding Liquor:
When they are crisp, take them out, and take off the Tape: Be sure to
put in three times as much Parsly as Onion.
Thus you may do Shrimp or Oyster-Loaves.
http://tudorcook.blogspot.com/
> Anne de la Mare
Gunthar
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:51:00 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question pardon if it has been asked
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
--On Friday, January 18, 2008 3:41 PM -0500 Amy Cooper
<amy.s.cooper at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't have a heck of a lot of experience redacting. I *think* I get the
> gist of the recipe (making a sort of roux-thickened lobster sauce to put
> into the bread bowls), but what is meant by Piece of Tape? And is it
> saying to deep-fry the taped bowls?
It's probably a sort of string -- perhaps something like bias tape. The OED
has Tape: 1. a. A narrow woven strip of stout linen, cotton, silk, or other
textile, used as a string for tying garments, and for other purposes for
which flat strings are suited, also for measuring lines, etc. dating to 1000
So, yup either deep frying or pan frying with the tape on to keep the
roll together.
toodles, margaret
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:53:33 -0600
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lobster Roll
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> but what is meant by Piece of Tape? And is it saying> to deep-fry
> the taped bowls?
My guess would be to take a strip of parchment paper and
put over the seam where the top was cut off, then secured
with string.
And the roll isn't so much deep fried as panfried in maybe
a half inch or less of hot oil.
Still, it looks really good.
> Ilsebet
Gunthar
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:53:36 -0500
From: "Ron Carnegie" <r.carnegie at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question pardon if it has been asked
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
My cooking experience is more 18th century than pre 17th century. So to
is my technical knowledge of period terms for textiles. Sometimes it
applies, sometimes it does not. In the 18th century however, tape is a long
thin piece of cloth, like a ribbon. The term still survives today as "bias
tape". Bureacratic "red tape" is supposed to come from the same textile.
Your receipt certainly seems to be applying to the same thing, since it
mentions tying it around the rolls. String ought to work just as well.
It is not clear to me if the receipt is calling for deep frying or pan
frying. I suspect pan frying, I suspect deep frying would be better
though.
Ranald de Balinhard
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:15:46 -0600
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on lobster rolls
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I found the archive page with a picture of the roll.
http://tudorcook.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html
Looks like it is quite a bit out of period, though.
Gunthar
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:48:58 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffyn pan and bread bowls
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Both of the Harleian recipes for Rastons call for cutting them "round about
(or above) in the manner of a crown" then recovering the bottom and its
contents with the top. How this is done depends on one's concept of a
crown, but any dagging or crenelation would be easier done in a
larger loaf.
I think a loaf of eight ounces to one pound would best suit this dish.
Bear
>> Rastons certainly present an argument for filling rolls with butter
>> soaked bread, but translating that into a larger-than-a-roll piece
>> of bread filled with stew is a bit of a stretch.
>
> I thought Rastons were relatively large. And apparently I thought
> wrong, or at least not absolutely correct: the 15th century recipe
> doesn't specify size or number of servings. On the other hand, since a
> cover at a feast often served two, it might be considered a large
> roll.
>
> Adamantius
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:56:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread bowls
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
OK, did anyone mention bazmaward from "A Baghdad Cookery Book" for
things served in a bread loaf? It's almost identical to the chicken
in bread loaf from Sicily; both dishes call for loaves of bread,
hollowed out, stuffed with cooked meat and nuts pounded finely with
liquid (vinegar and rosewater, in the case of bazmaward, straight
lemon juice for the pasticcio; walnuts in the bazmaward, but almonds
and pistachios for the Sicilian dish, as they are plentiful on that
island). The main difference is that bazmwards are sliced "into
medium elongated pieces" and packed into an earthenware dish with
mint leaves, and the Sicilian dish is baked again on its own. But it
is sliced and served cold like bazmaward, and like bazmaward, even
better-tasting the next day. The pasticcio, because it is associated
with ibn al-Thumna, seems to be a reworking of bazmaward for him by
his creative cooks. But that will just have to be speculation because
they did not leave us behind a recipe, and I a
m sure that the way it has descended to us these days leaves out
things the original probably included.
It definitely ain't soup or stew in a bread bowl, though.
Gianotta
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:52:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meat/Bread to make ahead
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Dame Serena gave her version of the pasticcio; here's mine:
1 boneless chicken breast
1 or 2 boneless chicken thighs (depends how big they are)
Spices:
1 TBS of sumac
1 TBS of white pepper
1 TBS of ground cubebs
1 TBS of cumin
1/2 cup of white balsamic vinegar
sea salt to taste
olive oil for sauteeing
1 cup of coarsely chopped fresh parsley
1 or 2 TBS of capers (the ones in brine, not vinegar)
1 large onion, minced finely
Juice from two large lemons
2 eggs
1 cup chicken broth
1/4 cup of toasted almonds
1/2 a cup of pistachios
1 large round loaf of Italian bread
Sautee the chicken with the spices, onions, and olive oil; when the onions have caramelized, deglaze with the vinegar and let cook until the vinegar mostly evaporates and mellows. Set aside to cool.
Take your bread load, take a slice off the top to act as a lid, and hollow it out. I use a small ice cream scoop. Reserve the bread chunks. Some you can use let get stale and use any time you need bread crumbs to thicken a dish; you'll really need only about 1 or 2 cups of bread crumbs at the most for this recipe.
Grind the nuts in a food processor, put in a mixing bowl with the bread crumbs. When the chicken has cooled, grind that in the food processor, using the juices from the pan and a bit of olive oil to create a paste. Add that to the bowl as well, and mix everything with the chicken broth, eggs, and lemon juice. Finally, stir in the capers and parsley.
Put the mixture into the hollowed breadloaf, and bake at 350 degrees for 20 minutes. Cool and wrap for travel. You can cut it into wedges like a cake.
This also tastes wonderful if you add a bit of garlic when cooking the chicken and white wine instead of vinegar.
Gianotta
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:34:40 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OK, this is weird ...
To: "Christiane" <christianetrue at earthlink.net>, "Cooks within the
SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I wonder how old this recipe is. There is a calzone recipe in Martino in
which he suggests a filling of almond paste, but the phrasing leaves open
the possibility of other fillings. The combination of ingredients make me
think this might be Renaissance or even Medieval in origin.
The cherry jam called for is not necessarily sweet. It might be sour or
tart depending on the cherries used.
Bear
<<< I was poking around on one of those "Itanglish" Websites that give you
details about festivals and events off the beaten tourist track in Italy
and found a recipe for onion calzones from Puglia.
The filling was fried onions, black olives, sugar, sultanas, and ...
A spoonful of cherry jam.
I'm half-tempted to try this out. The combination of sweet and savory
flavors is intriguing.
Gianotta >>>
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:10:22 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for OK, this is weird ...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I just googled onion calzones from Puglia and found this
http://www.deliciousitaly.com/ricetta.php?id=154&;regione_id=12
Onion Calzone
A well made calzone is a meal in itself and comes as close to a Cornish
pastie as we have found in Italy.
ingredients
For the pasta: 500 gr flour, 50 gr sugar, 100 gr extra virgin olive oil,
150 gr white wine, 1 spoon of fine salt. For the filling: 500gr onions
or leeks, black olives, sultanas, cherry jam.
making it
Mix all the pasta ingredients together and work well until a decent
dough has been formed.
Divide the dough into two parts and with one half form a classic calzone
shape onto which the filling should be placed.
The onions or leeks for the filling should first be lightly fried in
olive oil and salt.
To them 50gr sugar should be added as well as the olives (without the
stones), the sultanas (softened up with warm water) and a spoonful of
jam pasted over the onions.
Then close the calzone with the other half of the pasta or pastry and
seal the edges with egg yolk beaten with sugar.
Cook in the oven at 180? for around 25/30 minutes.
Johnnae
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:20:59 -0700
From: Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for OK, this is weird ...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Johnna Holloway did speak thusly:
I just googled onion calzones from Puglia and found this
http://www.deliciousitaly.com/ricetta.php?id=154&;regione_id=12
Onion Calzone
<snip>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------
Interesting, it seems that it would be a lot
sweeter than I had thought. While probably not
dessert sweet, it is definitely not exactly a savory item either.
I also find it interesting that it says to
lightly fry the onions, I would cook them
considerably longer over low heat to caramelize
them. Though if you use leeks, you definitely do
not want to do that as they get bitter when they
brown instead of sweet like an onion.
Other than those two things, it sounds almost as I had envisioned it.
Dragon
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maria Buchanan <scarlettmb at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for OK, this is weird ...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I'm assuming that's 180 C.
Maria
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 07:24:35 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for OK, this is weird ...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< I'm assuming that's 180 C.
Maria >>>
That is a curious temperature, 356 F. I would have expected 200 C to 260 C
(400-500 F) with 215 C (425 F) or 230 C (450 F) being the most common.
Bear
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:47:01 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for OK, this is weird ...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I did some more searching and came across these mentions:
http://www.cooking.com/recipes/static/recipe1476.htm calls for 475
degrees F
Supposed to be a recipe in Nancy Harmon Jenkins Flavors of Puglia.
I did check and Culinaria Italy doesn't mention it.
Johnnae
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:34:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OK, this is weird ...
To: Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< I wonder how old this recipe is. There is a calzone recipe in Martino in
which he suggests a filling of almond paste, but the phrasing leaves open
the possibility of other fillings. The combination of ingredients make me
think this might be Renaissance or even Medieval in origin.
The cherry jam called for is not necessarily sweet. It might be sour or
tart depending on the cherries used.
Bear >>>
It very well could be Renaissance or medieval in origin. That's the problem with these regional recipes; they're completely undocumented. As far as the jam goes, I'm with you in thinking it could be a sour cherry jam. The only local Puglian jam recipe I have been able to find so far has sugar, cinnamon, and sherry in it, but that's only how that particular cook does it, and sour cherry jam is available commercially there.
Gianotta
<the end>