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leavening-msg – 9/6/14

 

Period leavening agents other than yeast.

 

NOTE: See also the files: BNYeast-art, yeasts-msg, beer-msg, brewing-msg, bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, flour-msg, grains-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:09:22 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - hildegard's cookies

 

CBlackwill at aol.com writes:

<< Wasn't potash used as a leavening during the Middle Ages? >>

 

Not that I am aware of. Hartshorn is mentioned later (early modern). Ale barm

is the most common leavening agent in medieval cookery (pre-1450 CE).

 

 

Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:16:18 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - hildegard's cookies

 

CorwynWdwd at aol.com writes:

<< Anybody remember what "hartshorn" turned out to be? >>

 

An ammonia preparation commonly made from horn.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:49:25 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - hildegard's cookies

 

> Wasn't potash used as a leavening during the Middle Ages?  

>

> Balthazar of Blackmoor

 

Hartshorn, maybe.  I came across one reference to it as a (possible)

leavening agent.  Other than that, I haven't found any chemical leavens.

Chemical leavens start appearing in the 18th Century.  I don't remember

potash being referred to as a leaven, but pearl ash (potassium carbonate,

one of the types of potash) is.

 

In the Middle Ages, cooks appear to have depended on yeast (ale, grape must,

sourdough, etc.), whipped in air, and oven spring to lighten their bake

goods.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:54:45 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - hildegard's cookies

 

> Anybody remember what "hartshorn" turned out to be?

> Corwyn

 

Hartshorn in the Middle Ages may have been precisely that, powdered horn

from a hart.  Modern hartshorn is an ammonium compound, ammonium carbonate,

IIRC.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:44:04 -0500

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] steam-baking

 

Also sprach Terry Decker:

>In a discussion about the possible use of soda as a chemical leaven in

>China, Paul Buell suggests that it was probably a flavoring agent rather

>than a leaven.

>Bear

>>How sure are we of this translation? "soda"? I thought that rising

>>agents, with the possible exception of hart's horn were unknown

>>until the 19th Century. Perhaps these chemical rising agents were

>>known to the Chinese earlier? Or maybe this "soda" is not a rising

>>agent and what is actually doing the rising is this "leaven" which

>>I guess could be ale barm.

>> 

>>THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

 

I've got to go with Bear here. While it appears to be the case that

chemical leaveners as we know them don't appear widely until the

nineteenth century, that doesn't mean that the chemicals used as

leaveners haven't been used for other purposes for thousands of

years. For example, soda --and note that "baking soda", or sodium

bicarbonate, may not even be what is intended here-- was used by the

Romans as a green color fixative and tenderizer for vegetables, just

as it sometimes is in recent European (esp. French) cookery. Modern

Chinese cookery also employs baking soda as a meat tenderizer,

usually for tougher steaks and tripe (you wash it off carefully

before cooking, like the lye solution in the preparation of

lutefisk). The Roman cooking soda appears to be what we call "washing

soda" or sodium carbonate, but I don't know which soda Dr. Buell is

referring to.

 

Ultimately, such chemicals seem to have been known to the medieval

Chinese, but whether they considered them rising agents is

questionable. Of course, modern steamed bun recipes also sometimes

call for both soda and yeast; it may be a habit so lost in tradition

we'll never know its origin.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:13:20 -0500

From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spirits of hartshorn

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> Bear

> Hartshorn is ammonium carbonate and IIRC there is an in period reference to

> to its use in one of the German cookbooks

 

Is this what you are referring to?

 

From a cookbook from the archives of the Teutonic order, 15th Century,

Translated by Volker Bach.

 

[[16]] Wilthu machenn ein Hirßcornn:

item zu der zeytt alls es weig ist so nim das Gehürnn und seidtt das und

mach es sauber und schneidt das zu Scheinenn alls vill du wilst ader des

Gehirns gebinenn magst und nim ein Honeg vnd seudt die Unsauberlichkeitt

davon und nim dan Leckuchen und ßebe in und nim dan die Peis (?) die du nitt

gewinenn canst und hacke die und stoß die clein unnd nyme ein wenig Honegs

und geribenn Leckuchenn und deß Hirenn Swayß und streich es durch ein Thuch

und leg das Gehornn darein und laß es siedenn.

 

If you want to make hartshorn

Take the horn (antlers) when they are soft and boil them and cut them into

/Scheinenn/ (strips? slices?) as much as you like or can get of the antler.

Take honey and boil the impurities out of it, then take gingerbread and

sieve it. The /Peiß/ (?) that you can not get you take and chop finely. Add

honey and ground gingerbread and the hart's blood and pass that through a

cloth. Place the antler in it and boil it.

 

Serena da Riva

 

 

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:28:18 -0800

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I have a couple of questions that I suspect you guys may be able to  

answer:

 

In one recipe, I encountered a reference to "leavening"....from de Nola:

 

Oranges from Xativa Which Are Crullers

 

Take fresh cheese and curds, and mash them in a mortar together with

eggs.  Then take dough and knead the cheeses with the curds, together

with the dough, and when they are all kneaded and incorporated take a

very clean casserole, and add to it a good quantity of sweet pork fat or

sweet oil which should be fine, and when the pork lard or oil boils,

make some round masses from the aforementioned dough, like balls or

round oranges, and put them in the pot in such a way that the ball goes

swimming through the casserole, and you can make small rissoles from the

dough, or whatever forms and remarkable things you wish, and when they

take on the color of gold, remove them, and add a few more, and when

they are all fried, put them on plates, and pour honey over them, and

scatter ground sugar and cinnamon over them.  But note one thing:  that

you should add a little leavening to the cheeses and the eggs, and add

flour to the other, and when you make the balls grease your hands with a

little oil which should be fine and then take them to the casserole, and

once they are in if the dough crackles it is a sign that it is very

soft; and you need to add more flour until it is harder, and once the

dough is prepared and fired add the honey and sugar and cinnamon as is

described above.

 

What kind of leavening are they referring to?  Could I get away with

using yeast?

 

<snip>

 

Kiri

 

 

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:01:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Kiri wrote:

> In one recipe, I encountered a reference to "leavening"....from de  

> Nola:

 

> Oranges from Xativa Which Are Crullers

 

[snip]

>  But note one thing:  that you should add a little leavening to the  

> cheeses

> and the eggs, and add flour to the other, and when you make the balls  

> grease your

> hands with a little oil which should be fine

[snip]

 

> What kind of leavening are they referring to?  Could I get away with

> using yeast?

 

In southern Europe, they tended to use sourdough as leavening, rather  

than the ale barm that was used in northern countries.  However, they  

did not admire the sour flavor that comes from letting the dough sit  

for a long time.  (Platina warns against this in his bread-making  

instructions.)  If you don't have sourdough starter, you could use  

yeast, but you would have to make a sponge, not add the yeast directly.

  Dissolve about 2 teaspoons of yeast in 2 cups of warm water.  Wait 10  

minutes, then add enough flour to make a mixture like thick pancake  

batter.  cover, and let sit for an hour or two, until it is bubbling  

happily.  Use some of this sponge as the leavening in the fritter  

recipe.

 

<snip>

 

Brighid ni Chiarain

 

 

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:03:58 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

      <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Also sprach Elaine Koogler:

> I have a couple of questions that I suspect you guys may be able to  

> answer:

> In one recipe, I encountered a reference to "leavening"....from de  

> Nola:

> Oranges from Xativa Which Are Crullers

<snip>

> What kind of leavening are they referring to?  Could I get away with

> using yeast?

 

Presumably the recipe is calling for either sourdough starter or

barm, which would be skimmed or racked (depending on the yeast and

brew type) from actively fermenting beer or wine. Yeah, I think you

probably could use dry or compressed yeast, if you first mixed it

with a little water and maybe 1/2 tsp sugar, the way you often do to

get a "sponge" before baking with it.

 

I have a Latino (Colombian, I think) bakery a couple of blocks from

home, and they sell what I STR are called bunuelas that sound and

look nearly identical to what this recipe describes. In fact they do

look quite a bit like oranges. I like the detail in this recipe of

the oiled hands and the comment on the cracked dough, because it

seems likely you need to build a sort of gluten skin on each of these

as you form them. The standard technique used in some Greek fritter

recipes to achieve this would be to sort of squeeze a double fistful

of the dough out between the fingers into a round ball shape, which

you pinch off, leaving a smooth and unwrinkled surface to the

fritter, rather than that sort of convoluted surface that foods

rolled into balls can sometimes have. All I know is that when

fritters crack, they seem to tend to absorb lots of fat in the

cooking process, more so than when they don't crack, so this may be

why this is important. The ones I see in the bakery are pretty

astonishingly smooth and round.

 

Adamantius

 

 

From: Katja <katjaorlova at yahoo.com>

Date: May 19, 2004 7:57:15 PM CDT

To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Subject: [SCA-AE] Re: [sca-ae-cooks] Links: The Staff of Life

 

> This week's Links List is a bout Bread Bread,

> yeast, flour, Baker's Marks

> and ovens are all covered here. Thought there were

> no surviving recipes for

 

Aoife, as always, you absolutely rock!

 

Funnily enough, I discovered something just last week

regarding medieval leavening that you migh find

interesting.

 

While perusing Dawson's fine cakes recipe from The

good huswifes Iewell, I noticed the instruction "and a

little Gods good about a sponfull if you put in too

much they shall arise..."

 

Curious, I looked up the phrase "God's good" in th

OED and discovered that one of the archaeic meanings o

the phrase is barm or yeast. :)

 

toodles, Katja

=====

Katja's Middle Eastern Dance Page

http://www.geocities.com/katjaorlova/MEdance.html

 

AEthelmearc Cooks Guild http://www.geocities.com/aecooks/CMain.html

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:17:15 -0800 (PST)

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re [Sca-cooks] OOP: 17th century French breadmaking

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

--- Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> The Fons Grewe website has an interesting text for those who read

> French.  The 1661 edition of

> "Les delices de la campagne" by Nicholas de Bonnefons hs an entire

> chapter on making various

> kinds of bread.  All of them begin with the mixing of a starter the

> night before, containing leaven

 

'leaven'? That wouldn't be referring to an addition of non-wild yeast,

would it??  :)

 

William de Grandfrt

_______________________________________________

 

I have no idea.  The French word is "levain".  I didn't see any mention

of how the leaven is produced.

 

::pause to re-read chapter::  He says that the smallest and lightest

breads are made from a levai that contains one-sixth of the total

flour, plus very fresh ale barm ("leveure de biere").  In context, it

seems that this was not the leavening used for most breads.  This

assumption is strengthened by the definition of "levuere" in the 1694

dictionry of the Academie Francaise: a foam produced by beer, which is

used to raise dough for a certain kind of bread.

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:48:47 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP: 17th century French breadmakng

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> --- Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> wrote:

>>> The Fons Grewe website has an interesting text for those who read French.

>> The 1661 edition of

>> "Les delices de la campagne" by Nicholas de Bonnefons has an entire

>> chapter on making various

>> kinds of bread.  All of them begin with the mixig of a starter the

>> night before, containing leaven

> 'leaven'?  That wouldn't be referring to an addition of non-wild yeast,

> would it??  :)

> William de Grandfort

 

Most French breads were made from continuous use starters.  Until this

century, there was a law in France that prohibited the use of yeast.  The

law was rescinded primarily because you need yeast to produce those

extremely light and crusty baugettes.  I assume that the term used in the

original text is "levain" (if I remember the right spelling) which in the

context of 17th Century France refers a ball of dough (around 10 pounds or

so) the baker maintains to seed the sponge for a batch of dough.

 

Yeast is never added to the levain or (presumably) to breads made from the

levain. Yeast is used strictly for specialty breads.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 13:02:50 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re:17th century French breadmaking

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> I'm not sure what distinction Bear (or the French government) is drawing:

> a "continuous use starter" won't work to raise bread unless it contains

> yeast.  Now, whether it contains dried or compressed yeast from a company

> like Fleischmann or Red Star, or the baker's own years-old culture of

> yeast and other microorganisms, or yeast from ale barm, is another story.

> (BTW, Thom Leonard mentions the same French law, but he doesn't explain

> clearly exactly what was outlawed.)

> --

>                                     John Elys

 

What we are talking about is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, baker's yeast.  In

other words, thou shalt not yeast thy bread with ale barm.

 

One needs to keep in mind that ale barm was used primarily in Northern

Europe (the beer and ale countries) while spontaneous starters are common to

the Mediterranean countries.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 07:18:06 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Natron

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Jeff Elder wrote:

> I am on a slow research for chemical leaveners.

> As a start I am looking for the names ancient people would have used for

> them. <snipped>

> Thank you for any time and assistance in this.

> Simon Hondy

 

Have you read Elizabeth David's work on this?

You might want to start there and check also the references

in Harold McGee's new edition of On Food and Cooking.

Also this has been covered in issues of the Food History Newsletter.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:56:51 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Food History News was  Natron

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Jeff Elder wrote:

> Where would I find copies of the Food History News Letter?

> Simon Hondy

 

Food History News is by subscription. Issues may be available

by asking for interlibrary loan through your local library. You can

also purchase them at--

http://www.foodhistorynews.com/index.html

 

Fall 1992  18th Century Preserves, Chemical Leavenings: Pearlash and

Saleratus

 

Winter 1992   Feeding the Public, Chemical Leavening: Baking Soda &

Cream of Tartar

are two issues that covers the topic.

 

You might want to also check out PPC  21 from 1985 where Joop Wettezeen

answers a question from PPC 20 posed about pearlash.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:49:15 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question about breads

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

>>> 

Has anyone tried hardwood ashes in quickbreads and such, I have a few

receipes calling for them as a leavener, and was wondering how well they

work.

 

Kirk

<<< 

 

What you are after here is potash, potassium carbonate, which was originally

leached from wood ash.  If the authors of the recipes are really calling for

hardwood ash, then they probably didn't know what they were talking about,

since you need to concentrate the potash for it to be effective.  Potash

leaven is primarily a Dutch and German thing.  It may be hard to find and to

my mind baking soda works better and is an effective replacement.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:08:41 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] potash leavening

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Lye (caustic potash) is the liquid produced by leaching wood ash containing

potassium hydroxide.  Potash is the potassium carbonate produced by

evaporating lye in a pot.  The chemistry is rather complex (which means I

don't fully understand the process), but drying the leach concentrates

carbonic acid that in turn produces a high percentage of potassium carbonate

in the solids.  When exposed to water in the dough, the potassium carbonate

reverts to potassium hydroxide freeing carbon dioxide.

 

Use of the term potash in English begins in the latter half of the16th

Century, so its use in German and Dutch predates that.

 

The lye in German baking is as a solution brushed on the crust to alter the

crust in the baking process.  Potash is used as a leaven.  Without some

accurate records, there is no way to tell how the two are related other than

both result from leaching wood ash.

 

Bear

 

> Bear replied to Kirk with:

>>>>> 

>> Has anyone tried hardwood ashes in quickbreads and such, I have a few

>> receipes calling for them as a leavener, and was wondering how well

>> they work.

>> 

>> Kirk

>> <<<

>> What you are after here is potash, potassium carbonate, which was originally

>> leached from wood ash.

> Is this liquid leached through the ashes, lye? I seem to remember those

> directions as the starting point for making soap.

>> If the authors of the recipes are really calling for

>> hardwood ash, then they probably didn't know what they were talking about,

>> since you need to concentrate the potash for it to be effective.

> How? Boiling it? Or putting the solution through the ash several times?

> The latter is what I seem to remember from soapmaking directions.

>> Potash leaven is primarily a Dutch and German thing.

> Prior to 1600 CE? Or only later?

> If this solution is indeed lye, I wonder if there is a connection to the

> use of lye in such things as pretzels and bagels? Because those were of

> German origin, right?

> Stefan

 

 

Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:06:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] malt

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

The leavening agents primarily used were ale barm (liqour from the active

ferment on the top of the ale pot) and starter.  Malt was definitely not

used as a leaven.  It can be used to feed a leaven or as a sweetener

depending on the quantity used.  The earliest recipe I've encountered to add

malt to dough is in Markham's The English Housewife which is just out of

period and would place the practice in Elizabethean times.

 

I've used both malt extract syrup and powdered diamalt in bread.  I prefer

the syrup for sweetening and the powder for boosting the fermentation.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 02:47:13 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Leavening

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

This is a gem from another list, which I thought

this group would enjoy.  It came in the middle of

a thread about using urine for cleaning.  "In the

old days" does not necessarily mean in period, of

course.

 

Ranvaig

 

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0509&L=old-irish-

l&T=0&F=&S=&P=11488

 

> I spent 3 months in the Galway Gaeltacht in the 1950s and had access to a

> very old woman who delighted in teaching/scandalizing the young 'Dub'.

> Among other things she told me that 'in the old days' human urine was

> collected, allowed to go stale in a loosely covered vessel and then "nuair a

> bhí an boladh méith" (when the odor had ripened) the liquid was used in

> bread making.  She hastened to point out that the advent of baking soda put

> an end to this use of stale urine.  (Heating, as in baking, of ammonium

> bicarbonate releases both ammonia and carbon dioxide, both of which would

> help to leaven the dough.  They would also largely escape during the

> baking.)  Some years ago I tested the efficacy of ammonium bicarbonate in

> place of sodium bicarbonate in making both white and wholemeal bread.  It

> worked, but some (not all) tasters thought the taste was 'a bit different',

> not bad, just different.

 

 

Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:04:02 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Use of Soda in period

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> In researching leavening agents, I ran across a reference to using soda,

> cream of tartar, flour and water, to make leavening -- and my assumption,

> is a starter.  What would be a modern equivalent to soda?  Or better  

> yet, what would be the period form of soda?  I know baking soda is thoroughly  

> modern and quite

> frowned upon in the Outlands, so, I'm perplexed.

 

Chemical leavens are meant to be used immediately.  Starters develop over

time. Flour and water will create a starter.  Soda and cream of tartar will

produce a leaven when hydrated.  But the four ingredients together are only

good for producing soda bread.

 

Sodium carbonate is soda, now or then.  It was used to tenderize vegetables

(Roman) or, apparently, as a flavoring agent in one Chinese bread recipe.  I

know of no reference to it's use as a leaven.  Sodium bicarbonate, the

modern baking soda, is preferred because it doesn't release all of its CO2

until heated.  AFAIK, sodium bicarbonate was not used in period.  Baking

powder is a combination of sodium bicarbonate and cream of tartar and

usually a third compound that releases CO2 at higher temperatures for  

a good rise.

 

Hartshorne (probably ammonium carbonate rather than actual deer antler) was

used in Germany in the late 16th, early 17th Centuries as a chemical leaven

(still is for that matter), but it would probably not have been used  

with a bread.

 

I've a number of different chemical leavens from the late 17th and 18th

Centuries, but no trails leading back into period.

 

Given a Mediterranean climate, the most probable leaven for bunelos is a

sourdough starter, but you can fudge it with baking yeast.  If you want real

starter, try two cups of flour and one cup of water mixed together in a

bowl, cover with plastic, and leave it on the counter for a few days.  One

cup of starter will leaven about 2 to 4 pounds of bread.  Replace one cup of

the liquor in your recipe with one cup of starter.

 

> I probably won't go with that idea.  I will probably use live yeast, but

> the concept intrigues me.  The reference mentions using plant ash to  

> render soda. Sounds fairly caustic to me.

> Thanks for any advice you all can offer a new cook!!

> Constanza Marina de Huelva

 

Potash, also referred to as lye, and a name for several different compounds.

In this case, you're talking potassium carbonate rather than sodium

hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, which put the caustic in caustic soda.  I

think my ramblings on this subject are out in the Florilegium.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:50:28 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Random food-related questions....

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> 2.  Has anyone played with ale barm much? A brewing friend just gave me two

> jars of it (about three cups total), from a batch of brown ale, and I'd like

> to use it in some bread, but don't know how to go about it.  It's a fairly

> substantial slurry of yeasts and such at this point.  My thought was to use

> it almost like a sourdough starter, but any advice would be much

> appreciated!

 

I've used it as a direct starter to make a sponge, and I've also

cultivated it as a starter (treating it as you would a jar of starter

someone gave you. Both work well; using it to make a sponge directly

will give you a more beer-y bread.

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:19:00 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Random food-related questions....

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> 2.  Has anyone played with ale barm much? A brewing friend just gave me two

> jars of it (about three cups total), from a batch of brown ale, and I'd like

> to use it in some bread, but don't know how to go about it.  It's a fairly

> substantial slurry of yeasts and such at this point.  My thought was to use

> it almost like a sourdough starter, but any advice would be much

> appreciated!

 

Use it fast or feed it (water and malt extract)..  If you don't, it will

die. There is also a possibility that it will be infected by mold if you

try to hold it.  It is not a starter and will not keep like a starter.  It

is a yeast solution equivalent to dry active yeast proofed in some  

water.

 

Is it actual barm (the scum off the top of the ale pot) or is it the dregs

(the stuff on the bottom of the pot)?  If it is the latter, you may want to

wash (dilute) and strain it.  Use a cup of it to a couple of cups of flour

to make a sponge, let it set for about 24 hours, then use it to make your

bread.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:39:26 -0500

From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Random food-related questions....

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

>>>> Use it fast or feed it (water and malt extract)..  If you don't, it will

die. There is also a possibility that it will be infected by mold if you

try to hold it.  It is not a starter and will not keep like a starter.  It

is a yeast solution equivalent to dry active yeast proofed in some  

water.

 

Is it actual barm (the scum off the top of the ale pot) or is it the dregs

(the stuff on the bottom of the pot)?  If it is the latter, you may want to

wash (dilute) and strain it.  Use a cup of it to a couple of cups of flour

to make a sponge, let it set for about 24 hours, then use it to make your

bread.< < < < < <

 

If you leave it alone without feeding it, and it escapes infection, you will

have autolysis to deal with.  that is the death and degredation of the yeast

cells. You will get a very distinctive off-yeasty taste when this starts to

occur. We work with this in brewing a lot when making "aged" beverages.

You have to siphon the desired beverage of the yeast silt at the bottom

occasionally to prevent that yeast bite from autolysis.

 

If you want to keep it alive, boil some (quarter cup?) malt extract or plain

sugar in a cup of water.  Cool it down and add to the yeast.  That will keep

the reproducing and eating for a couple of weeks.  You'll get CO2 release,

so don't seal the jar tight . . . put an unpowdered latex glove over the jar

with a tiny pinhole in one or two of the fingers (or a balloon if it will

fit). You'll want to pour off the liquid every three or so weeks to keep

the dead from breaking up in it.

 

You might get a few weeks out of it, but the chance of a bacteria or mold

grows with every time you open it to feed it.  He didn't give you an

ingredient so much as a hobby :o)

 

niccolo

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:04:29 +0000

From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Random food-related questions....

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

> Use it fast or feed it (water and malt extract)..  If you don't, it will

> die.  There is also a possibility that it will be infected by mold if you

> try to hold it.  It is not a starter and will not keep like a starter.  It

> is a yeast solution equivalent to dry active yeast proofed in some water.

> Is it actual barm (the scum off the top of the ale pot) or is it the dregs

> (the stuff on the bottom of the pot)?  If it is the latter, you may want to

> wash (dilute) and strain it.  Use a cup of it to a couple of cups of flour

> to make a sponge, let it set for about 24 hours, then use it to make your

> bread.

 

I've used it a number of times, and find that the rise time needed varies

significantly based on the strain of yeast my husband has used.

 

I've also had a perenial problem with a bitter flavor that we've attributed

to the hops.  I hadn't yet tried it with his gruit ale, as he doesn't make

it very often.  It doesn't seem to matter if I use the barm from an actively

fermenting vessel or the trub after the ale has been racked off, the problem

remains. I've washed it, run a two-generation starter, etc., and still have

the bitterness to one degree or another.  I'd be grateful for wisdom from

wiser heads than mine!

 

That said, I have a starter on my counter made from an English Cider yeast

that is doing fabulously.  It seems to be attenuating to life in flour and

water and gets more reliable with time.  Either that, or it's gotten

contaminated with the regular bread yeast in my bake-happy kitchen and

that's slowly taking over.  No bitterness issue with this one.

 

Femke

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:09:39 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] masa

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> I'm behind on my reading so apologies if this was already answered:

> This could be a totally mistaken impression, but here's my understanding

> of "massa".

> Since the ladies baked their bread each day, they would prepare the dough

> and before baking (not sure if it would be before the first or second  

> rise) a lump of the dough would be pinched off and saved.  The next day,  

> that bit of dough would be added into the new dough.  Since it has the yeast

> or other leavening agents from the previous day's bread, it would help with

> the rising of the next dough.  A bit of the new dough is then saved for

> tomorrow's baking. And the process goes on.

 

"Massa" means dough, but in this case it is dough retained for leavening as

you state.  For home baking, the "pinch" of dough is a lump about the size

of your fist, approximately a cup.  For a commercial baker, it is likely a

ten pound football of dough.

 

Rather than being simply added to the new dough, the massa should be broken

apart in the liquor for the new batch, then mixed into the flour.  This

ensures that the spread of the yeast and lactobacilli through the dough.  In

commercial baking, this step would be used to create a sponge from which the

starter would be recovered, then the sponge would be broken apart in liquor

and added to the dry ingredients to form the actual dough, preventing

contamination of the starter by any of the other ingredients of the bread.

Whether or not this procedure was used by the commercial or home bakers

within SCA period is unknown.

 

A second rise is not necessary to producing bread and I have found no direct

evidence as to whether the second rise was a baking technique used in

period. The appearance of a dough box in a 16th Century woodcut of a

baker's shop suggests, but does not confirm the use of two rises.  Second

rise was well established by the mid-19th Century and I'm still in the

process of tracing its use.

 

> Again, from my understanding *only*, ale barm is not a common leavening agent

> in Spain, but they do have yeast.  As Giano mentioned, they do have

> sourdoughs, too.  (As a side note, I've found information on winemaking in

> "Spain", but nothing so far on beers/ales.)

 

My research suggests that northern Europe with its beers and ales more

commonly used ale barm while the Mediterranean countries tended to use

sourdough starters until modern manufacture and refrigeration made yeast

commonly available.  The use of ale barm as leavening was introduced into

Italy in the 2nd Century BCE by Gallic bakers,  but apparently fell into

disuse as the empire declined.

 

> One thing I haven't yet found, that maybe another Spaniard or a Spanish

> expert could answer:  Did the Spanish use "dough troughs" like in some

> other parts of Europe?

> -- Constanza Marina de Huelva

 

Almost certainly.  Dough troughs appear in the household inventories of

Spanish Jews and, IIRC, there are some Moorish examples to be found in

Malaga.

 

 

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:18:18 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Borax as leavening?

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

It'll be a while until i finish reading "Annals of the Caliphs'

Kitchens" - i'm working my way through the introductory matter, and

periodically plunging into the cookbook text and the glossaries.

 

While taking a plunge, i read that borax was used as a leavening in

Near and Middle Eastern breads. The recipes often don't specify what

sort of leavening to use. So i'm curious, never having cooked with

borax... how does it work? Does it function somewhat like baking soda?

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:38:31 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borax as leavening?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I can see adding borax as a tenderizing agent, but I question the leavening.

The chemical leavens I'm most familiar have a CO3 molecule that converts to

CO2 and water.  Borax is NA4B2O7.  During disassociation (if I got the term

right), I would expect the O7 to recombine as H2O rather than O2.  The

fastest way I know to test would be prepare a recipe and see what  

happens.

 

We discussed a similar issue in Soup for the Quan.  I believe the discussion

is in the Florilegium and includes Paul Buell's response to our  

comments.

 

I've never heard of using borax as a leaven, so it would be interesting to

see if this is the author's interpetation or if there is source material

that supports the use.

 

Bear

 

> It'll be a while until i finish reading "Annals of the Caliphs'

> Kitchens" - i'm working my way through the introductory matter, and

> periodically plunging into the cookbook text and the glossaries.

> While taking a plunge, i read that borax was used as a leavening in

> Near and Middle Eastern breads. The recipes often don't specify what

> sort of leavening to use. So i'm curious, never having cooked with

> borax... how does it work? Does it function somewhat like baking soda?

> --

> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

 

 

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:13:12 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chemical leavening

To: ahrenshav at yahoo.com, Cooks within the SCA

      <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Huette von Ahrens wrote:

<<< The fact that hartshorn was used in some medicinal recipes does not  

mean that they were used as a leavener.

 

Huette >>>

 

And, we also need to be really, really clear, when we speak of  

hartshorn (and by "we" I mean our sources, as well), whether we're  

referring to hartshorn, the gelatin source, made from powdered horn  

and similar to isinglass (the dried sturgeon-swim-bladder gelatin  

source, which in turn is _not_ sodium silicate), and not hartshorn,  

a.k.a. baker's ammonia, salts of hartshorn, and ammonium carbonate.  

Which may or may not be made from actual horns of actual harts, among  

other sources.

 

Oddly enough, I just found an interesting website which essentially  

claims that the use of hartshorn salts as a leavening agent have a  

linked history to that of the development of baking powder, and that  

both are 19th century innovations based on attempts to specifically  

create chemical leaveners, whose primary advantage was considered to  

be that, unlike yeast, they don't break down and eat up to 3% of the  

flour they're leavening.

 

http://www.electronic-chemicals.basf.com/p02/CAPortal/en_GB/portal/abc_ammoniumcarbonat/content/Abnehmerbranchen_Anwendungen/Lebensmittel_Food/Ammoniumcarbonat/Geschichte

 

Or maybe some of you better try here:

 

http://tinyurl.com/bht9j7

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:51:50 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chemical leavening

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 25, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Terry Decker wrote:

<<< As I recall, ammonium carbonate as a leaven definitely turns up in  the

18th Century along with a number of other chemical leavens.   There are

some 16th and 17th Century German references to hartshorn,  some of which

are definitely deer antler and some which might be  either. >>>

 

The BASF site gives a date of something like 1823 for heavy

experimentation into chemical leavening; it could have taken place

earlier, or it could be someone interpreting "some time around 1800",  or

some similar phrase, somewhat loosely.

 

What has me a little concerned is that although I keep seeing  references

to chemical leavening in 17th century Germany and  Scandinavia, it's like

I'm seeing references to the references, "we  all know that" such-and-such

is the case, etc. We do know that  chemical leavenings appear in recipes

for some baked goods that are  very old indeed, but it's not always clear

that the recipes are all  that old. While I'd love to be more edumacated

on this subject, at the  moment it does seem conceivable that we might be

looking at a slightly  more benign version of the Big Lie political

tactic, an untruth which,  if repeated often enough, becomes widely

accepted as the truth.

 

Can anybody cite some specific, clear, primary or near-primary source

reference to hartshorn as a leavening? It would presumably have to be  the

ammonia salt, and not simply the ground-up horn, which, as I  recall, does

appear in jelly/leach recipes as a gelling agent, like  pig's feet, cow

hooves, isinglass, etc.

 

The fact that we've been talking about this here on SCA-Cooks for a

billion years (give or take) doesn't count as a primary source ;-).

 

Adamantius

-----------------------------

 

An excellent considration.  Somewhere among my papers, I have what purports

to be a translation of a recipe from the 1590's that uses hartshorn as

leavening. I have yet to find the source to determine if it is an accurate

translation or modern fudging of an older recipe.  If I can locate it, I'll

post it.  Beyond that, my personal collection of recipes has mostly mid to

late 19th Century recipes with chemical leavens.

 

Root suggests that actual hart's horn was used as a leaven in the 16th

Century and was replaced by ammonium carbonate.  I'm not sure how to produce

an edible leavening gas from bone, so this statement is questionable, until

proven or disproven.

 

The Oxford Companion to Food, under baking powder. give a 1790 date for the

use of pearl ash as a leavening agent prior to the creation of baking

powder. No reference to hartshorn.

 

It is worth noting neither source provides a primary source for the

information.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:03:46 -0500

From: "Kingstaste" <kingstaste at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chemical leavening

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I have wondered about this for years, I

could never figure out how an antler gave anything like a chemical rise.  

I found this on OChef's Q&A page.  They suggest heating (not 'burning', just

'heating') releases the gas that produces the leaven.

 

http://www.ochef.com/539.htm

 

"Hartshorn is a leavening agent, and a precursor to the baking soda and

baking powder that everyone uses these days. Hartshorn's virtue is that it

readily breaks down into a gas when heated (causing the leavening), but

unless it escapes completely, it leaves a hint or more of the smell of

ammonia. For that reason, it is generally used only in cookie recipes where

it doesn't have to fight its way out of a deep batter."

 

Christianna

 

 

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:15:44 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chemical leavening

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Feb 26, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Terry Decker wrote:

 

A < That was more or less my understanding, too. We seem to be sorta

dancing around in circles and never actually getting to the point  

of proving the point one way or the other, but because we keep  

talking about it...>

 

TD < I did a little digging in the collection and turned up a rather  

gaudy reprint of what is supposed to be an American cookbook from  

1787. I haven't chased down the manuscript history, so I'll accept  

the 1787 date with caveats.  It mentions soda in a bread recipe,  

which may or may not be a leaven.  It also mentions a new product,  

saleratus. Saleratus is sodium or potassium bicarbonate used as a  

leaven. >>

 

I'd been hearing about saleratus for years, and knew it was supposed  

to be a chemical leavening, but never really knew what it was, and  

just assumed it was something in the baking soda family. By the  

sheerest of coincidences (although I'm rapidly approaching what  

amounts to a religious belief that there are few to no coincidences),  

just yesterday I opened a copy of The National Cookbook, by a Lady of  

Philadelphia, c. 1863, and the chemical leavening of choice for that  

volume is saleratus, except it is spelled sal aeratus, which had me  

saying, "Duh." Oh, OK. Latin (sort of). Aerating salts. Gotcha.

 

TD < Root suggests that actual hart's horn was used as a leaven in the  

16th Century and was replaced by ammonium carbonate.  I'm not  

sure how to produce an edible leavening gas from bone, so this  

statement is questionable, until proven or disproven. >

 

A < OK, but if we're looking at the alkaloid properties of bone, why  

use horn? Does processed horn include the bone, or just the  

proteinaceous outer layer? -- I thought the latter. If the natural  

descendant of the process is ammonium carbonate, you'd need that  

nitrogen atom, right,  and if it's coming from an animal, doesn't  

that suggest protein,  collagen, keratin, that sort of thing?

 

How do you get CO2 or another leavening gas directly from protein?  

I think the answer is you don't, that you have to turn it into ash  

and distill from that an ammonia salt. >

 

TD < The critical component of the ammonium carbonate is the CO3 molecule  

which releases CO2 when broken down with a weak acid. >

 

So the ammonia is a byproduct and not the actual leavening gas in this  

case...

 

TD < I did a quick search for the chemical composition of antler and came  

up with this:  http://www.deertracking.com/library/aug2002_antlers3.html

. From what I see there would be nothing that would react in the  

appropriate manner in unmodified antler. >

 

Yes, that was my take, too. I truly believe that if actual powdered  

hartshorn (rather than a more processed distillate or a synthesized  

chemical version) appears in period recipes, it's not there as a  

leavening agent. From what little I know about chemistry (which I  

nearly failed in one of the finest schools in the country!), those  

jigsaw puzzle pieces simply don't fit together to produce a gas in any  

quantity.

 

TD < Your suggestion about burning the bone makes a great deal of  

sense. Burning the bone and leaching the ashes should produce a  

form of potash, of which potassium hydroxide would be the most  

reactive leavening. >

 

It might be instructive to take another look at Hugh Plat's Secrets of  

Distillation. He seems to be burning a lot of salt, oyster shells, and  

what have you, in doing what he's doing. Now I've got a new reason to  

look more closely at that stuff.

 

TD < The Oxford Companion to Food, under baking powder. give a 1790  

date for the use of pearl ash as a leavening agent prior to the  

creation of baking powder.  No reference to hartshorn. >

 

A < I seem to recall the BASF essay pointing out that potash, pearl  

ash, and finally soda ash, were used early on (and 1790 sounds  

about right)  in conjunction with sourdough, to increase aeration. >

 

TD < It is worth noting neither source provides a primary source for  

the information. >

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:53:36 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another leavening agent was Baker of Bagels

      in the 11th C

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Ok while checking in the circa 950 AD

Annals of the Caliphs' Kitchens. Ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's Tenth-Century

Baghdadi Cookbook. English Translation with Introduction and Glossary by

Nawal Nasrallah.

 

I came across mention of another leavening agent---

 

On Page 563 under an entry for khamir /khumra

/Nasrallah writes: "fresh yeast, usually a piece of fully fermented

dough saved from a previous batch. Medieval bakers also used

/buraq/ 'borax' as a leavening agent. Adding generous amounts

of yeast and borax is recommended in making bread because

fully fermented bread is believed to be easier to digest.

(Ibn al-Baytar 228)"

 

Borax?!?

 

Johnnae

 

emilio szabo wrote:

<<< Johnnae, if you could check the Nasrallah translation and see whether or not there are any recipes for bagel-like things, that would be great.

Many thanks, E. >>>

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:12:08 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another leavening agent was Baker of Bagels

      in the 11th C

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Mar 31, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

<<< Ok while checking in the circa 950 AD

Annals of the Caliphs' Kitchens. Ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's Tenth-

Century Baghdadi Cookbook. English Translation with Introduction and  

Glossary by Nawal Nasrallah.

 

I came across mention of another leavening agent---

 

On Page 563 under an entry for khamir /khumra

/Nasrallah writes: "fresh yeast, usually a piece of fully fermented

dough saved from a previous batch. Medieval bakers also used

/buraq/ 'borax' as a leavening agent. Adding generous amounts

of yeast and borax is recommended in making bread because

fully fermented bread is believed to be easier to digest.

(Ibn al-Baytar 228)"

 

Borax?!?

 

Johnnae >>>

 

I understand borax is sometimes used in small amounts in hand-pulled  

noodles in China, and I think it may appear in some of the wheat-dough  

recipes for mantou in "A Soup for the Qan," although I could be  

remembering that last part incorrectly.

 

I believe it's roughly akin to baking soda in pH, and it can be used  

industrially as an antifungal, so one possibility is as a yeast  

inhibitor, but for all I know it could have something to do with  

gluten extensibility, hence its use in pulled noodles.

 

If that's the case, I could see it appearing in bagels for a lighter,  

more elastic dough.

 

Bear? Tag, you're it.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:32:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another leavening agent was Baker of Bagels

      in the      11th C

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Curious. Sodium tetraborate decahydrate (borax) shouldn't react in a way to

act as a leavening.  It is, however, a water softener and as such could

improve the quality of the bread.  I note that it is used with yeast and not

as a separate leaven.

 

This might also be the reason for the "soda" in the recipe for bread in

Feast for the Qan.

 

Bear

 

<<< Ok while checking in the circa 950 AD

Annals of the Caliphs' Kitchens. Ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's Tenth-Century

Baghdadi Cookbook. English Translation with Introduction and Glossary by

Nawal Nasrallah.

 

I came across mention of another leavening agent---

 

On Page 563 under an entry for khamir /khumra

/Nasrallah writes: "fresh yeast, usually a piece of fully fermented

dough saved from a previous batch. Medieval bakers also used

/buraq/ 'borax' as a leavening agent. Adding generous amounts

of yeast and borax is recommended in making bread because

fully fermented bread is believed to be easier to digest.

(Ibn al-Baytar 228)"

 

Borax?!?

 

Johnnae >>>

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:47:59 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another leavening agent was Baker of Bagels

      in the 11th C

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

David Waines did this article

Cereals, Bread and Society: An Essay on the Staff of Life in Medieval Iraq

David Waines Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient,

Vol. 30, No. 3 (1987), pp. 255-285  (article consists of 31 pages)

It's in JSTOR so I will get in later and get it.

Borax is mentioned in it. "Another type, bardzidhaj, differed from the

above in containing /borax/ *..."

It's rather hard to find but  *Soup for the Qan does list Borax. It's on

page 77 in a section on breads.

It's said to be connected with a bread coming out of Armenia.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:37:46 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another leavening agent was Baker of Bagels

      in the      11th C

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<< http://slurpandburp.blogspot.com/2006/01/imbb-22-lamian-chinese-stretched.html

 

This is a fairly lengthy blog diary on northern Chinese pulled  noodles,

containing something of an argument between readers/posters  on whether

they do, or should, contain a small amount of borax, and why.

 

The consensus among the people that think it belongs in those noodles

seems to be that in noodles, it's about gluten extensibility, which,

given the high gluten flour traditionally used for bagels, could be  said

to make some sense.

 

Adamantius >>>

 

I knew I had seen information on water hardness and gluten formation.  There

is an entire section in Paula Figoni's How Baking Works.

 

According to Figoni, minerals harden gluten, making the strands so elastic

that they don't stretch properly to trap the CO2 in fermentation.  The

higher the gluten content, the worse the problem.  When you reduce the water

hardness, you reduce the spring back in the gluten strands and allow them to

properly extend.

 

The most common minerals in hard water are calcium and magnesium.  Borax

will react with calcium and magnesium in solution neutralizing the effect on

the gluten (I suspect the minerals will precipitate out and become part of

the solid matrix, but I haven't researched that).  Interestingly, desert

regions often have hard water.  Northern China, North Africa, the Middle

East?

 

There is also a pH factor involved, calcium carbonate being on the acidic

end of the scale and borax being basic, but that's a little different from

the issue of hardness.

 

Next time I'm in NM, I'll try adding a little baking soda to the mix to see

if I can get a better rise.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 20:13:43 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Leven: yeast or sourdough?

 

Johnnae quoted:

<<< OED defines leaven as a noun as "A substance which is added to dough

to produce fermentation; spec. a quantity of fermenting dough reserved

from a previous batch to be used for this purpose (cf. sour-dough)."

 

With quotations such as:

1471 RIPLEY Comp. Alch. IX. viii. in Ashm. (1652) 175 Lyke as flower

of Whete made into Past, Requyreth Ferment whych Leven we call.

1699 EVELYN Acetaria 53 Add a Pound of Wheat-flour, fermented with a

little Levain. >>>

 

So, does this mean that baking soda, baking powder, hartshorn etc. are not

considered leavens, since they don't work through fermentation?

 

Stefan

----------

 

A leaven is any substance that when added to dough causes it to rise.  Since

the process of fermentation was not understood until the 19th Century

anything that caused the effect of raising dough might easily be considered

an act of fermentation in period.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 06:28:30 -0700

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

I've been reading al-Warraq and am still puzzled over the borax question.

 

According to the author and the translator, there are two kinds of

borax: Natron and baker's borax (aka Armenian borax). The latter is used

in food, both to make a glossy surface on bread and, apparently, as a

leavening! The translator says that it is sodium borate, which is what

is now called borax--and never explains the chemical difference between

the two kinds, although she does describe their differing appearance.

 

But according to Wikipedia, natron doesn't have any boron in it. It's a

mixture of sodium carbonate decahydrate  and about 17% sodium

bicarbonate--aka baking soda. Which suggests that perhaps bakers' borax

is baking soda, or some natural mineral that consists largely of baking

soda.

 

In which case we not only have a period chemical leavening, we have

period baking soda!

 

-- David Friedman

www.daviddfriedman.com

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:47:09 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

E.J. Brill's First Encyclopedia of Islam 1913-1936, list several other types

of "borax."  Obviously, borax is being used as a generic name for a number

of naturally occurring compounds rather than as a specific mineral, sodium

borate. The translator is correct, as far as the translator goes.

 

As for natron, the primary constituent is soda ash, sodium carbonate, which

is a natural water softener.  There are modern bread recipes which call for

both yeast and buraq, suggesting to me that it may be the water softening

properties that are desired.  As a generalization, soft water makes better

bread. At 17 percent, you would need roughly 2 Tablespoons of natron to get

1 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate, so again I would think that the intent was

to soften the water with the added benefit of a little chemical leavening.

 

Bear

 

<<< According to the author and the translator, there are two kinds of borax:

Natron and baker's borax (aka Armenian borax). The latter is used in food,

both to make a glossy surface on bread and, apparently, as a leavening!

The translator says that it is sodium borate, which is what is now called

borax--and never explains the chemical difference between the two kinds,

although she does describe their differing appearance.

 

But according to Wikipedia, natron doesn't have any boron in it. It's a

mixture of sodium carbonate decahydrate  and about 17% sodium

bicarbonate--aka baking soda. Which suggests that perhaps bakers' borax is

baking soda, or some natural mineral that consists largely of baking soda.

 

In which case we not only have a period chemical leavening, we have period

baking soda!

 

-- David Friedman >>>

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 08:39:54 -0700

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

al-Warraq is pretty explicit that it's  leavening. In one of the

recipes, discussing what can go wrong, he mentions the possibility of

dead yeast and suggests adding more buraq to make up for it.

 

"If the yeast was bad, add some more borax to the batter." (p. 415)

 

Nasrallah says it was also used to give bread a shiny surface, but I

don't think there are any recipes in al-Warraq that do that. Any guess

what that might imply about the nature of bakers' borax?

--

David Friedman

www.daviddfriedman.com

http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:41:17 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

That is an excellent quote.  I obviously need to add a copy of the work to

my collection.

 

While I haven't used sodium carbonate this way, potash, potassium carbonate,

is often used in German baking to glaze pretzels and breads.  Dissolve a

small amount in water and brush it onto the crust before baking.

 

Thinking about this after imbibing my coffee, I realized that, sodium

bicarbonate aside, any of the carbonates will, in the presence of water or

an acid, will produce CO2 for leavening.  If you use water, the hydroxides

produced by the reaction may impart a soapy taste to the bread, which can be

counter-acted by using enough weak acid, sour milk, lemon juice, etc., to

neutalize the hydroxides.

 

The fact that al-Warraq knows natron to be a leavening agent, suggests that

a similar use of carbonate (IIRC) in Soup for the Qan may also have been as

leavening rather than as a tenderizing agent as discussed a few years ago.

 

Bear

 

<<< al-Warraq is pretty explicit that it's  leavening. In one of the recipes,

discussing what can go wrong, he mentions the possibility of dead yeast

and suggests adding more buraq to make up for it.

 

"If the yeast was bad, add some more borax to the batter." (p. 415)

 

Nasrallah says it was also used to give bread a shiny surface, but I

don't think there are any recipes in al-Warraq that do that. Any guess

what that might imply about the nature of bakers' borax? >>>

 

 

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:51:12 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

<<< Googling for information on giving bread a glossy crust, I found a

reference to using lye for Bavarian pretzels--and the comment that you

could get a similar effect by using baking soda! It sounds as though what

matters is that it's a base.

--

David Friedman >>>

 

Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

<<< It may be the carbonate rather than just being a base.  Just one of those

things that needs some experimentation.

 

Bear >>>

 

"Craig Daniel" <teucer at pobox.com> said:

<<< Lye isn't a carbonate, though; it's NAoH. >>>

 

You are thinking of lye in a modern chemical context where the word commonly

refers to sodium hydroxide but may also refer to potassium hydroxide.  The

lye used in period German baking was hydrated from potash (potassium

carbonate) which is produced by leaching hard wood ash then boiling the

liquid to produce a residue (potash).  In solution, potash breaks down into

potassium hydroxide, carbonic acid and carbon dioxide.  Modernly, the term

potash has been used to describe a number of potassium compounds that are

not within the original definition.

 

Thinking about the chemical breakdown and looking at a couple of references,

David is probably correct that it is the alkaline solution that produces the

glaze and darkens the crust.  If it is the base, then it shouldn't matter

much whether one uses sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.

 

Still it sounds like some fun experiments to see just what just what kind of

crust the different compounds produce.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:45:16 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bakers borax again

 

"Buraq" is a very general term and Brill shows more than two usages.  It

appears that the collective reference is to any whitish crystalline

substance which can be used as flux in soldering.  Armenian borax (modernly)

appears to be borax pentahydrate while US borax is borax decahydrate neither

is of use as a chemical leaven.  The first usage of the term Armenian borax

is in a Coptic manuscript roughly contemporary to al-Warraq (IIRC).  I have

seen no evidence that bakers' borax and Armenian borax are synonymous.

 

Redhouse's "A Turkish and English Lexicon" most helpfully defines "bakers'

borax" as "soda used by bakers".  Oh, thank you for that insight.  I really

would like to find an accurate usable definition.

 

I doubt if baker's borax is pure sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), which was

first produced in 1791, but some form of sodium carbonate with a small

percentage of bicarb (like natron) is certainly possible.  The leavening

effect would not be as pronounced as with pure sodium bicarb.  Sodium

carbonate alone would produce the glazing effect on the bread and might

provide a very minimal leavening.

 

Bear

 

<<< I've been reading al-Warraq and am still puzzled over the borax question.

 

According to the author and the translator, there are two kinds of borax:

Natron and baker's borax (aka Armenian borax).  The latter is used in

food, both to make a glossy surface on bread and, apparently, as a

leavening! The translator says that it is sodium borate, which is what is

now called borax--and never explains the chemical difference between the

two kinds, although she does describe their differing appearance.

 

But according to Wikipedia, natron doesn't have any boron in it. It's a

mixture of sodium carbonate decahydrate  and about 17% sodium

bicarbonate--aka baking soda. Which suggests that perhaps bakers' borax is

baking soda, or some natural mineral that consists largely of baking soda.

 

In which case we not only have a period chemical leavening, we have period

baking soda!

 

-- David Friedman >>>

 

 

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 21:08:20 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Reasons why period cakes aren't modern cakes

 

<<< Are you saying that Ammonium carbonate was used as a chemical leavening in

SCA period? I wasn't aware of it.

 

David Friedman >>>

 

Ammonium carbonate and sal ammoniac (AKA hartshorn or salt of hartshorn)

were originally derived from red deer (Cervus elaphus) horn by dry

distillation. Hartshorn makes a limited appearance in German baking toward

the end of the 16th Century, but it in more common in 17th and 18th Century

baking. It was largely replaced by baking soda.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 11:24:37 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: <lilinah at earthlink.net>,     "Cooks within the SCA"

      <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hartshorn Re: Reasons why period cakes aren't

      modern      cakes

 

There is a recipe for "Water of harteshorne" in Heironymus Brunschwig's The

vertuose boke of distyllacyon of the waters of all maner of herbes, 1527.  I

suspect this is an English translation of his Liber de arte distillandi

simplicia et composita (Little book of distillation) published in 1500.  The

recipe is one of simple distillation of broken horn in water.

 

English sources, just out of period and beyond, use the antler as a source

of gelatine.  As far as I can determine this is produced by the simple

process of breaking up the antler and boiling it to extract the gelatine

rather than true distillation.

 

Oil of hartshorn is produced by destructive distillation, where antler is

sealed in a container and then heated to break down the antler into

constituent molecules.  It is pyrolitic process similar to coking or

cracking. Salt of hartshorn, a mix of sal ammoniac and ammonium carbonate,

is the extract of the condensate from distilling oil of hartshorn without

additional liquid (dry distillation).  Salt of hartshorn is the original

chemical leaven.  Also, there is the question of dating the use of these

processes to produce hartshorn in period.  Modernly, ammonium carbonate,

baker's ammonia, is produced by mixing ammonia and carbon dioxide.

 

I have a translation of a German recipe that purports to be from 1590 which

uses hartshorn as a leaven.  I have yet to locate the source of the recipe,

so it is of questionable provenance.  Other than that, I have no particular

evidence of hartshorn being used as a leaven in period.

 

Baking with hartshorn produces ammonia and a strong odor of ammonia which

limits its use to thin bake goods which allow the trapped ammonia to

disipate. Because of this, the recipes which use it are likely to be small

cakes. I would expect to find it in a recipe for Springerle, a cookie which

uses hartshorn modernly and whose origin dates back to 14th or 15th Century

Scwabia. Unfortunately, the earliest Springerle recipe I have located is

Austrian from 1686 and does not list hartshorn.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:24:50 -0400

From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Reasons why period cakes aren't modern cakes

 

Bear wrote:

<<< Ammonium carbonate and sal ammoniac (AKA hartshorn or salt of

hartshorn) were originally derived from red deer (Cervus elaphus) horn

by dry distillation. >>>

 

That's what I found, too, on Wikipedia. However, I wonder if that was

done in period. There was a query on a Twitter account ( at tudorcook) that

I follow where someone asked how hartshorn was prepared for use.

 

Tudor Cook mentioned that "most of the recipes seem to call for boiling

6+ hours or...overnight before letting cool, straining then..." There

also was mention of rasping, perhaps before boiling. The inquirer was

Dr. Annie Gray and I don't know what the results of her experimentation

were. If an actual answer to the experiment is wanted, I could try to

find out."

 

Alys K.

--

Elise Fleming

alysk at ix.netcom.com

 

<the end>



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